・theorycrafting

[iron sail]

ah wait i found the issue

so i fixed the stats is it really her best weapon?

[iron sail]

does this work?

[clear ivy]

Kinda?
It can bring a lot of value to the team if the team makes use of the EM (so haitham teamplay) , and in kuki dh hyperbloom teams she gets to onfield enough to activate the passive without being much of a hindrance to the rotation

Idk the exact numbers tho

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can provide a follow-up

[iron sail]

cause i ran the numbers and it did more than the others

[vivid ember]

Key gives more EM than sting starting from 33k HP on the equipper, which she hits immediately anyway in DH, while also making HP subs good for her damage not just healing

At C4 Kuki only needs 2 ring ticks plus a C4 trigger to max the passive which is very much manageable on her field time, before that 3 ring ticks is quite a lot. She can then maintain it afterwards with 1 ring tick or a c4 proc as long as you get back to her within the 20s

Plus the party EM which can be nice, but not that huge

[pine ivy]

i summon all the genshin smart people to join me in vc and help me fix my xiao :3

using genshin optimizer :3

[south oar]

You can cheat death.... that's the best part

[opaque basalt]

does anyone have a 10n2cd tao config with yelan dmg ramp

[tepid crest]

hi, how much % is the difference from c1 neuv to c2?

[amber olive]

these answers are in the neuvillette faq but its about an 11% increase

[static wyvern]

Any other team that does exactly this? An "endless feedback loop" kind of team composition

[golden aspen]

Just about every other team with double dendro/electro using Nahida.
Swapping Tighnari for Alhaitham in this would be a direct upgrade. And swapping Yae for Furina would make the team actually good.

[clear ivy]

A lot of teams do that, but the key synergy between tighnari and yae is actually the field time

Yae is a subdps that needs too much field time, tighnari is a main dps that needs little of it

So them being together lets you set up everything, get all the value out of the turrets and the rotation lines up correctly

[static wyvern]

I don't think it's exactly what im looking for

sorta like, a team that enables all of each other

[clear ivy]

Then any two dendro two electro team really

[small gate]

Childe Kazuha Xiangling Bennett

[amber olive]

pretty much every team does it if some of these characters reasons for being in said "endless feedback loop" is just "does damage"

idk what u mean for "Reduced CD" tho, none of those characters have CDR and if anything kuki has rly bad CDs for this team

at least yaes stuff being so long lets tigh play effectively 2 12s rots whilst shes on a 24s one

[clear ivy]

Kuki is on 20s so she's very mismatched

[amber olive]

eh shes not even fit in 20s ideally

15s CDs is fine for 20s but

[clear ivy]

I forgor her E duration it was like 18s then cuts off no?

[amber olive]

12 or 24 it just doesnt work

[clear ivy]

Ya

[amber olive]

12s without cons, 15s CD
+3 seconds with cons

[clear ivy]

Ah

[amber olive]

and her aggravate dmg isnt exactly high if ur building her full em

[clear ivy]

To begin with with honestly kuki has no place on that team

[amber olive]

but i wouldnt recommend anyone plays crit kuki

[clear ivy]

It's always been fischl

[amber olive]

mhm its moreso just coz a defensive teammate

[clear ivy]

I'm an appreciator of pamber nahida

[amber olive]

i like fischl coz she fits so many fkn rotation lengths lol

12s, 15s, 20s, 24s

[clear ivy]

Yee

[amber olive]

with 20s being the most awkward if anything

can shorten those by 2s if needsbe with TF

[night orchid]

there are 12s rotations?

[amber olive]

yup

quite a lot of agg teams are 12s rots

[clear ivy]

Keqing

[amber olive]

^^

keqing and tigh are the notable ones

[clear ivy]

That's why her dps be high

[night orchid]

i love short rotations

[amber olive]

mhm if keqing didnt have her 12s rots

then

whilst being able to actively QS

shes not bound by set amounts of FT

very helpful

[clear ivy]

Ye

I'm so sad keqing tighnari as a team isn't really that good

[amber olive]

yeah 😔 wouldve loved some double dps stuff

[clear ivy]

It's serviceable but it doesn't feel great to play

[amber olive]

tbh keqings living the dream with the amount of dendro chars she can run in 12s rots

[clear ivy]

Like all of them bar haitham lmao

[amber olive]

collei and nahida fit perfectly
kiraras nice for a defensive option
yaoyaos CDs are dogshit but if ur not playing a fixed rot its fine, same for baizhu but more annoying on CDs

not a fan of baizhu there personally coz 20s just doesnt line up anywhere

[clear ivy]

I thought his E was 10s?

[amber olive]

only reason yaoyaos skill is fine is coz quicken uptime

[clear ivy]

Tho idk how much app that is

[amber olive]

10s E, 20s Q

Q lasts a long time tbf

but it doesnt line up for shit

😭

[clear ivy]

If only we have a catalyst dendro that doesn't apply infinite gauge every second

[amber olive]

altho ik most ppl would rather anything than nahida for her coz they dont want to learn the electro swirl setups

[amber olive]

tbf its not how much per tick nahida applies thats the issue here

its when she applies it

[clear ivy]

The setups aren't rocket science but like mid fight you get hit it happens then you're trying to figure out your bearing

[amber olive]

coz u apply electro and proc a reaction that has a chance to wipe ur electro, and if it doesnt nahida will make sure it disappears instead by apping after

[amber olive]

😭

tbh easiest one is just

Fischl E N2/3

[clear ivy]

The easiest is kazuha Q

[amber olive]

any that involve swapping to keqing get kinda fkd by ping

[amber olive]

need to get the electro aura first before you can do that

setting up Q without infusion is 😭

whilst needing to go back to kazu for the VV proc

[clear ivy]

Great wall of dendro is great walling of dendro today too

[amber olive]

wonder wtf emilie is gonna do tho since shes supposedly dendro

[clear ivy]

According to the artifact it might be burning

But how do you even fix that mess

[amber olive]

yeah but by the sounds of the burning artifact they have no idea wtf theyre doing with that reaction

😭

[clear ivy]

"for every burning tick, gets a followup burning tick"

[amber olive]

best idea i had was increase the tick rate of burning

[clear ivy]

They gave up and made it less of a dps loss in burgeon

[amber olive]

since you can refuel burning without it proccing a reaction

the longer u keep a burning reaction going, the quicker it ticks, eating more dendro but hitting more frequently, mayb with some dmg increase as well

this lets nahida actually be used in a burning team coz the burning runs out quicker letting her proc her TKP if it ends and needs reproccing

[clear ivy]

Idk if they'll make a 4* change a core game reaction

[amber olive]

as well as gives benefits to ppl who can keep it up consistently

[amber olive]

isnt emilie said to be 5* still?

[clear ivy]

Then again kaveh forces bloom pops

[amber olive]

yeah

even if not very good

[clear ivy]

Really? Was under the impression she's a 4*

Never heard of a 5* leak

[amber olive]

would b weird to make a whole artifact set around a 4 star imo

[clear ivy]

One day we'll get a burgeon driver that doesn't give a shield

[amber olive]

but the only one id heard differing opinions on was sigewinnes

[clear ivy]

Sigewinne is ???

[amber olive]

we dont know

[clear ivy]

Haven't heard shit about her

[amber olive]

mentions of 5 star

mentions of 4 star

and she just doesnt fit in anywhere

coz otherwise we get 2 5 stars in 4.7

[clear ivy]

Thing is

Chlorinde can't have a new set

If she's off field

Because GT/eosf are there

[amber olive]

yeah lmao

[clear ivy]

So the new set is a throw away awayways

Just like nymph

[amber olive]

average X.6 domain

but like

just "burning gives em" is cope as shit

[clear ivy]

Yeah like i said it really sounds like they gave up on burning and made damage control for burgeon lmaoo

[amber olive]

thats honestly what it is lol

old burning was good coz it was consistent 2U apps

but now its literally just "yeah lets fuck over burgeon"

coz burgeon as an idea is just better than hyperbloom

[low shale]

just dont swirl electro and run Furina instead in ST tbh

[amber olive]

then ur running a hb team not an agg team

[low shale]

not really?

[amber olive]

if it was tigh onfield fairs altho i dont like furina with keqing too much

[low shale]

oh, I was thinking more this

[amber olive]

certainly works tho just coz furina gud

thats a very different team

furina doesnt line up for keqings CDs at all

[low shale]

this is a 25 sec rotation tho

[amber olive]

actually send the link rather than screenshots

curious on the config

[low shale]

https://gcsim.app/db/Qrztgn7dkW6w

[amber olive]

plus gcsim literally says at the top of the page to not send these pics

[low shale]

[amber olive]

yeah this is very different to how youd play a keqing team although not impossible to fit furina in still

nice alternative if u dont wanna use kazu

but pamber nahida solo healing against furina...

dori at least heals teamwide herself

[low shale]

yeah, this kinda only works cause Dori heals partywide

[amber olive]

mhm

[low shale]

based C6 Dori

[amber olive]

real

[pearl latch]

can someone explain to me how klee's q works

as in how many times does the q proc and when do they proc

[amber olive]

over the space of 10s it does 6 waves of hits
35% chance for 3 hits, 50% chance for 4 htis, 15% chance for 5 hits
on average it hits 22.8 times
standard icd and snapshots stats

and obviously if she swaps out it ends early

each wave happens every 2 seconds or so

[pearl latch]

Ah I see

Thanks

[amber olive]

[glad palm]

I’m looking for an ER requirements calculator where I can set up team with only two units.

Or alternatively… In Xq guide on KQM his ER requirements are said to be around 235-240% when he’s C6, solo hydro unit in team, he’s using weapon other than Fav/Sac/Anemona and no one else is running Fav/Sac weapon in team. This number is based on Xingqiu Mastersheet.

According to Genshin Wiki the number of characters in the party affects the Conversion Rate of inactive characters energy gain and so for 2 / 3 / 4 characters in the party, the Conversion Rate of inactive characters is 80% / 70% / 60% of the Conversion Rate of active characters, respectively. The tables for orbs and particles looks like this:

My question is how is this affecting this 235-240% number in duo Hu/Xq team?

[crystal frost]

does anyone have Hu Tao's optimizer target config with xianyun?

[unkempt sandal]

in erc you can select nobody in a team slot

[sand trout]

what tracer said yeah

you can use erc with 2 slots

!!erc

[misty thistle]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-vkmgp5n0bI9pvhUg110Aza3Emb2puLWdeoCgrxDlu4/edit?usp=drivesdk

[glad palm]

Damn, I’m blind. Thank you vm.

[halcyon iris]

how long till beta?

[pine ivy]

Give tomorrow or the day after

[weak crescent]

Is Arleccino the only chr in 4.6?

[pine ivy]

The only new one

Yes

[weak crescent]

Rippp

Genshin here starving us while HSR dropping 2 five stars and a 4 star every patch. If it doesn't matter since the new 4 stars kinda suck anyway

[pine ivy]

Two very different games and character release schedules. It works for Genshin, arguably wouldn’t work as well with HSR.
Some friends of my are feeling rather frantic without how many new 5*s btb they’ve been getting announcements for.

[golden aspen]

HSR characters require so much less work to make tho

One angle, exactly the same animation every time, and lets be real - super similar character designs for the most part

[weak crescent]

Enemy designs are very similar reskins, but I don't really see much obvious similarities between many chrs (maybe snth like misha similar to Jingyuan)

I can understand that character design is a bit simpler especially with paths

Not as many character identity crisis probably (*cough *cough Xinyan)

[golden aspen]

Look at the female characters and you’ll notice that 70% of them have super similar clothing designs.

The shapes and colours differ, but the general cut stays the same

Regardless, the animations being shown from literally 1 angle are really what cuts development time.

[buoyant imp]

we really don't need that many new 5 stars a patch

[dull fjord]

https://twitter.com/r1aru_rec0rd/status/1767383753104519590?t=Rh0vzNp4juKJ43FMmimJcw&s=19

りある (@r1aru_rec0rd) on X

hope her kit is as broken as her ankles probably are
#Arlecchino #GenshinImpact

Twitter · Mar 12, 2024, 2:54 AM

[golden aspen]

If the leaks are true, it has the potential to be

[median dust]

what c1s and c2s add the most value to an account? like % increase in damage for them/their most common teams

[night orchid]

both for furina, c1 for neuv

[median dust]

thx!

[clear ivy]

c2 raiden is a classic, c2 nahida is fairly broken too

c1 chiori is probably one of the higher increase ones for navia teams too

nilou c2 makes her team be able to do some sort of damage too

[vivid ember]

What are you saying about Nilou teams

[clear ivy]

some of the units there don't get the buffs they usually do on other teams

c2 nilou with that shred brings them up to par on personal damage (not related to bloom production)

[vivid ember]

Oh I thought you were referring to general team damage

Yeah it's 24% hydro dmg increase, and full 16% Dendro damage increase

With characters like Alhaitham/furina/Neuv it is very strong

[potent sphinx]

Guys, deathmatch works on Arlecchino?

[clear ivy]

yes

[clever phoenix]

@jovial smelt chiori wfp calc at faq is quite differ from ur calc. i wonder why.

wfp has cinnabar quite high with 5 procs. but urs is low even with 6 procs.

[wooden belfry]

are you looking at calcs before or after the Q nerf?

[jovial smelt]

Different assumptions I guess. I haven’t looked into what they did that much

[clever phoenix]

duck should be after. wfp faq idk

chiori no q anyway

[vivid ember]

yeah they never calc chiori's burst

you can see by the con%s

[clever phoenix]

this is duck

cinnabar r5 kinda differ

is it because the cinnabar passive asumption?

[vivid ember]

if i remove burst from my calcs pure, its closer to duck's (i didnt change mist stack count)

[jovial smelt]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MFpEOzr3tPhzgJvQBEKTH_1UsC0IBasI/edit#gid=1599623699 feel free to check

I just verified and I indeed made no mistake on cinnabar proc

maybe they assumed it proc twice when puppet hit at the exact same time ?

too lazy to look into their sheet to find the difference

[clever phoenix]

same

[wooden belfry]

I'll give it a check later

btw @jovial smelt, how's our cinnabar assumptions fairing in the reality test?

i'm not at home so i didn't get to test her interaction with cinnabar yet

[jovial smelt]

I just checked their sheet, and maybe I found something wrong
.
Basically, they added the 80% def multi for BOTH the ATK puppet scalling and DEF puppet scalling. So I think it has twice the number of procs.

Though, no clue how their sheet is made, so maybe they took it into consideration and it's maybe not an error.

[wooden belfry]

@amber olive

teach us your ways

[vivid ember]

yeah i saw that, but i removed the bonus ones and then it tanked too hard so idk (down to 358k)

[jovial smelt]

I just removed the extra one, and I got this

looks fairly close to mine

[vivid ember]

oh yeah yours are higher anyway

so the relative is closer

[cloud pier]

Can chiori’s signature get full passive uptime on her own without a second geo?

[jovial smelt]

I assume she can proc the passive by herself, though the hit that will trigger it won't be buffed so it's not "full uptime"

[amber olive]

hm?

ah already addressed this earlier, its effectively double the cinnabar procs isnt it?

coz i never had cinnabar performing too well

[wooden belfry]

@jovial smelt do you have bychance a calc saved of XY hutao Furina yelan? I wanna extrapolate from it how an arle plunge team will be like

[jovial smelt]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GZ_FKY9hJwXpICUDy-J1hZ-nSgUemMZZ/edit#gid=711747535 should have this team. Keep in mind that the combo for hu tao is not the most optimal, it's an "easy to do combo" while other tc do a "tryhard kind of combo"

[wooden belfry]

and that's why i like using your sheets

i've had my fair share of ingame experience on hutao plunge

and I was never able to get the amount of consistent vaping the sweaty combos claimed to produce

i prefer the more realistic sheets

[sturdy frigate]

c2 moments

[timid matrix]

anyone made weapon charts for arlecchino yet

[jovial smelt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1084926991897206955/1217892827154092042/image.png?ex=6605ae15&is=65f33915&hm=cac94c4fcb2c6d1b44b68916189b23da2f9ca027c6a2fdc066c4f5c7e96e14c7&

[fleet pawn]

Do Sacrificial Jade's buffs (HP and EM) work offield? Or are they active only onfield?

[jovial smelt]

they are active off-field too. You only lose the buff if you are on-field for more than 10s. And you will have to be off-field for 5s to regain them

[fleet pawn]

Oh wow, I thought it's active only during those 10s and as soon as you switch they're gone until on field again

Might be good for offield catalyst DPS if we ever get one scaling with HP

Thanks for the info

[spare osprey]

It’s the best battle pass weapon imo

[warped forge]

would ganyu work with arlecchino

arlecchino pyro melt

[night orchid]

#1216682397605691422 (also no she wouldnt)

[wooden belfry]

i've been wondering how arle plunge teamcomp affects this weapon comparison

stuff like bond of life not being as big of a deal lowering signature value

or jade wingspear not getting stacks quickly

[south oar]

Anybody did calcs on arle chev beidou fischl?

[fleet pawn]

pretty outdated question but how does Furina perform in quickbloom with Nahida? Is the spread/aggravate uptime good? I know it's not 100% but how far from it?

[iron sail]

Have I done this correctly?

[old apex]

should add that c1 is a very notable con for non construct teams like navia

[clear ivy]

c6 is very much notable, and c1 as jet said

[iron sail]

Is C6 notable for Off Field?

[clear ivy]

no

it changes how she plays and it becomes one of the higher damaging c6s

[iron sail]

Ok, Ill keep it in mind but its an off field guide. Ill see if I have space to add in a note about it

[clear ivy]

i mean it's still a notable constellation because it completely changes the character, but maybe it's just a vocabulary difference

[iron sail]

Yeah but its more that its notable in the sense that it changes her playstyle and is good to know, but generally speaking since its mainly targeted towards very casual and non tc knowers it comes off as "this good"

A bit splitting hairs but the category is mainly for "good for this playstyle" than anything

[clear ivy]

that's fair

[iron sail]

Can I discuss leaks here?

[clear ivy]

not story leaks but everything else is yeah

[echo timber]

#・tc-lounge

If it's arle tc #1216682397605691422

[iron sail]

Is this a correct explanation of the new burning artifact?

[gloomy yoke]

Pretty sure dmg% caps at 50%

[vivid ember]

^, the full cap is at 50%, you just need burning to maintain it at 50%

[iron sail]

oki

so is this right?

I'm also trying to do an explanation of the Bond of Life Artifact, but I dont exactly understand the condition for the 4pc effect

By "value" does it mean that you've added more bond of life and/or youve healed up some?

[vivid ember]

yeah, its just Marechaussee but with Bond of Life

[keen bone]

out of combat and off field aren't the same thing

[iron sail]

so the first part "After leaving combat for 3s" means no dmg from that character for 3s?

[keen bone]

out of combat means no enemies

the first part of the set effect is basically to let you start fights at full bonus instead of 0 by giving it back to you when you aren't fighting something

[iron sail]

ahh

is this correct then?

[keen bone]

Yelan's Barb has the same mechanic if you wanna look for an example that already exists in game

[keen bone]

looks good to me

[iron sail]

so its just for that character and not team?

[keen bone]

should be

teamwide effects usually specify "all allies" or "nearby party members" or something similar

[iron sail]

oki ty!

[pine ivy]

Who can even use this set tho…

[unkempt sandal]

wriothesley and ganyu in burnmelt mainly

but it’s not much better over marechaussee or shimenawa’s

[clear ivy]

Especially since ganyu never bursts in melt

[pine ivy]

Essentially: only farm them if you have absolutely nothing better to do with ur resin or are busy farming artifacts or Arlechinno and come across a few good of these along the way

[noble echo]

would I be right to assume that the set would be good on this team? Or is it still not competitive?
https://gcsim.app/sh/Mr9p9KLKnHpM

or https://gcsim.app/db/zGJzNLJmqJRD

[amber olive]

you can always test by removing the artifact set and just giving razor 50% DMG Bonus and 18% ATK

[noble echo]

Assuming perfect uptime (will vary in practice depending on the frequency/minimum duration of the burning check), UR >= GD, UR <=MH with burning. The GD diff is so slight that SS r1 -> r5 nulls the advantage.

Actually it should be worse becuase of EM on self overloads

[wooden belfry]

anybody knows if there's a site that collected arle's AoE data?
Usually I go to HomDGCat to get that info, but for some reason they haven't updated their site for this beta yet

btw @amber olive, the card u made was a good read, me likey

[amber olive]

thank you very much!!

[glacial knoll]

!!lilbro

[misty thistle]

https://teucerdev.github.io/little-bro/

[iron sail]

are these accurate team names?

I ended up changing
Aggeravate --> Quicken
Hypercarry --> Mono Geo

[strange torrent]

You could also say Catalyze, since that's technically the game's term for those reactions as a whole, even though you never see that term outside of like a single tutorial entry.

[old apex]

tiniest nitpick ever but Crystallize is spelled wrong

[strange torrent]

Also, ARE those the most used teams for this Abyss cycle?

[echo timber]

press x to doubt

Aggravate in this abyss is kinda

[iron sail]

ah no

just zhonglis

the post says it but looks like i didnt make the graphic clear enough on that

[echo timber]

ahh

[strange torrent]

Even then, doesn't seem to line up with this?
This is just CN tho

Everything right except Itto team nowhere in sight.

[strange torrent]

It's fine second half. Legit no issue.

[iron sail]

If you click on Zhongli

[echo timber]

The issue is thr plunge machine

[iron sail]

you get his specific most used teams

[echo timber]

Is cringe without zhongli or kaz

[strange torrent]

Oh, yes, but you said Aggravate, not Quicken.

Aggravate has Kazuha, Tighnari+Yae Quicken team doesn't.

[echo timber]

You will bald in 3 days

[strange torrent]

But there are 5 Zhongli teams already there.

So, Itto can't be in the top 4.

[strange torrent]

[iron sail]

ah its sorting from ar not ur

YSHelper has two sorting systems

[echo timber]

But it has zl

[iron sail]

Appearance Rate and Usage Rate

ignore typo

[strange torrent]

Oh, ok.

[strange torrent]

Oh, right, ye. You're fine either way, see.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

[echo timber]

But it's cringe anyways

[iron sail]

Usage Rate:
Total Appearances of that team/Total of people that have that character

Appearance Rate:

Total Appearances of that team/Total sample size

Since the individual statistics use the usage rate and not apperance, the rates are different

I made a top 10 most used teams from UR

there we have the top 4 most used zhongli teams

also is this more easy to understand its zhongli/is the design good enough?

[noble echo]

Isn't PMA immune to Fischl A4?

[clear spear]

just play plungetao and onerotate it

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[echo timber]

Thats what i did 😭

[glacial knoll]

!!lilbro

[misty thistle]

https://teucerdev.github.io/little-bro/

[night orchid]

is wfpsim updated with arle changes and cons? is it using multiplicative or additive c1?

[sand trout]

check the assumptions listed on the website

the answer is yes

and additive c1

[abstract phoenix]

Aight is there any update on chino best teams? Does she work well in vape teams or is chevreuse still the only option?

If I pull imma also pull for sig weap, but I don’t wanna build any 4 stars (none of them are built anyway), is she still worth pulling without any 4 star teammates?

[wooden belfry]

this should prob go to #1216682397605691422 , but ill give a quick answer: OL was never the only option, vape was always a valid playstyle, ol simply has a little better ST damage than vape. if you are already invested in hydro supports, you won't have trouble with vape.
the 3 main teams rn are ol vape and plunge XY.

[clear ivy]

if anything, i'm quite disappointed at hoyo's blatant refusal to give a flying damn about the second artifact set

like it's been 3 weeks honestly i have no idea where to go with this set that glad, WT, GT , shime or eosf couldn't already achieve

[echo timber]

I have a feeling (or i might cope) that sethos will make use of this set in 4.8 (if he is dendro/pyro) if he is playable

[clear ivy]

bruh

[echo timber]

I know its omega cope but if he doesn't save this set then it's dogshit

If hoyo did this set for natlan then it's bad design because why not drop it in 4.0 if the 4.0 artis are better and have better sygnergy w natlan units then it's over

Probably hoyo did this set just to slap it in that domain knowing ppl will farm it for arle anyways

[unkempt sandal]

it's not the first time theyve released bad / barely better artifact sets

but to me it's quite clear that it's for the cryo in burnmelt

[devout cliff]

There is almost no chance this sets is better than current artis set unfortunately. On-fielders have MH/Gilded and off-fielders have GT/EoSF/NO/Gilded. I think it's just another bad artis set. Better than double bad arti from Vorukasha/Nymph 🤷‍♂️

BurnMelt Ganyu likes the set but that team is so bad in practice imo

[unkempt sandal]

I think they can bump this to 60 dmg% and it would make it a little more appealing

[fallen jetty]

It is better in theory thanks to dehya or baizhu

Better to play I mean. I don't think it is better dps even if you use new set

[devout cliff]

Zhong XL is just more comfy and better dmg. Yes u have to build 290 ER XL so u can argue burn is easier to build 🤷‍♂️

[fallen jetty]

Seems like the same according to Sims, so the new set should make burn melt better I guess
https://gcsim.app/db/7TCzPfQDmpHP
https://gcsim.app/db/QLDnLL9pwz7C

1.0 melt has prototype crescent tho, which is mostly scam nowadays

[lofty wave]

keep in mind thats also shieldless burnmelt

and shieldless ganyu is also a scam

[fallen jetty]

It has dehya, no need for shield.

[lofty wave]

tight execution and this and this is assuming you dont get interrupted at all

keep in mind dehya IR isnt infinite

but high hitting small amount targets/Single target which is the whole thing you use meltyu for can hit through it

actually heck

you cant even fit 6CAs in bennett unless you are doing a form of cancel

those were Charges not frostflakes

[fallen jetty]

The simulation for me is saying they are frostflakes 🤔

[lofty wave]

i meant in the rotation i posted above

[devout cliff]

I was speaking about Practical DPS

Those two sims have some scams imo (crescent, sapwood, assuming zero dodge/delay on Ganyu Dehya,...)

I can't find the sheet anymore but with more fair assumptions based on footage gameplay XL performed better iirc

U can cheese MH with burn tho

Practicality peak

[halcyon abyss]

hey apologies if this isnt the right place to ask, but does anyone have in depth calcs for lisa vs zhongli as the fourth in neuv furina kazuha?

gcsim has them very similar, but obv i don’t terribly trust comparing 2 different gcsim teams 1:1

[fallen jetty]

Jamie made a video about it recently, so he should have it. I can't find his user to ping tho. Too many Jamies here

[halcyon abyss]

okay thanks a bunch

i think i’ll be able to find him in zajef server

he doesnt have any calcs, so if anyone else does or would be interested in doing any it’d be much appreciated

[amber olive]

dont believe hes in WFP anymore although i could ask him

i dont rly see any issue comparing the two sims though assuming same investment level

if there are issues the sample is right there to read then if there was something incorrect it can be fixed and makes everyones lives easier

[halcyon abyss]

i already asked him btw

[halcyon abyss]

he specifically said it was smart to not compare them directly

[unkempt sandal]

gcsim honestly can get you more in depth than basically any calc

it shows you dmg distribution per character, per ability, over time, reaction ownership, aura uptime, field time proportion, etc

less prone to stuff like assuming 18s rotations when it’s only possible in 19.5s

when comparing gcsims as long as you do it with some gameplay considerations in mind it’s fine

Honestly it’s fine if you just look at the numbers for the same team with 1 difference, like zhongli vs lisa for neuvi, or hod vs lofi for alhaitham in the same team

As long as you keep in mind the gameplay difference you can get a useful result from sim numbers

The bad part about comparing sims directly is when some fool goes to the database page, looks only at the number for like raiden hyper (which is c0 raiden in the database), then looks at the xiao premium team in database, sees that xiao’s number is higher, and goes “see? xiao is better than raiden and raiden is dogshit”

[amber olive]

[topaz viper]

🔥

tracer head wfp staff when

[charred jasper]

🔥

[charred jasper]

Smarter than 99% of TC ppl from these few paragraphs they typed alone unironically

[unkempt sandal]

Hardest sentence for normal people: “I love you”
Hardest sentence for genshin theorycrafters: “It depends”

[amber olive]

😭 😭 😭

[halcyon abyss]

that’s real

ig i just remember the days where gcsim was just a black box that said BAAAATT

[amber olive]

tbf a lot of the "gcsim bad inaccurate" is from people just repeating it from hearing it from others

yet theres not any actual proof provided to show what was simmed is incorrect

if there was then that stuff could get fixed and the tool is then better for everyone

but if theres nothing wrong then

[halcyon abyss]

i think it does come from old gcsim stuff

[amber olive]

mhm although a lot of the stuff ppl were shitting on before has been fixed for a long time

for example hitlag

[halcyon abyss]

like i remember seeing 90k nahida raiden xingqiu fischl lmao

[halcyon abyss]

yeah absolutely

it’s just a pretty recent memory i think

[amber olive]

i mean hyperbloom can get some stupidly high numbers

its just very susceptible to random frame delay

tiniest aura change can vastly change the dps

[halcyon abyss]

yeah now haitham with furina actually is 90k lmao

[amber olive]

[halcyon abyss]

but yeah it’s all finicky

neuv is prob one of the least variable chars, no?

[amber olive]

same goes for agg coz ur sim without random frame delay could have a fischl A4 proc or two miss now lmao

[amber olive]

i mean hes kinda just

blast em

[halcyon abyss]

yeah like no reactions or aura managing (ignoring vape rn)

[amber olive]

not much that can go wrong there

[halcyon abyss]

like it’s very easy to do the exact gcsim rotation in game

ig it is just a good comparison

[amber olive]

hmhm

kinda sad there are still ppl who wont give gcsim a chance tho just based on old experiences / thoughts tho 😔

very helpful tool to have access to

altho ig not using it at all is better than just going on simpact and screenshotting a teams DPS number

[echo timber]

Kinda real

[unkempt sandal]

i mean sim scamming is very much still a thing

there’s that one lyney chevreuse sim with 95k which is just not possible in game

but mostly gcsim is accurate now if you aren’t limit testing it

[wooden belfry]

the real barrier is the sim being code based, I'm still waiting for the UI change the dev told me about that will supposedly make the setup more intuitive for the less initiated

[amber olive]

mhm would be a lot easier for people to get into although i personally wouldnt say configs are too confusing to start out, there are some that can get funky tho

[amber olive]

i wouldnt say its impossible but very very unrealistic to assume a shieldless lyney team is gonna get a perfect rotation off whilst also getting a quick weak point shot for crescent every rot

the team drops like 10k or so without crescent proc which is still very very good but theres not rly any good f2p bow alternative so

[unkempt sandal]

no im p sure that example was literally not possible to replicate in game even tool assisted

i dont think theres anything inherently wrong with simming unrealistic scenarios (for speedrun / limit exploration purposes) as long as people dont run away with those results with the wrong takeaway

I also think we need to move away from insisting on sticking to 4* weapons and c0 5* characters.
It's fine as a baseline but adhering to it too hard doesnt help when comparing more specific scenarios and encourages "cost cheating"

Id rather just give lyney his r1 than have to deal with stuff like scamming weakpoints

[amber olive]

idr seeing anything like that so if theres something wrong with how its being calc'd which needs changing id be curious to see. The only thing im aware of that can just be impossible in game is some kazuha double swirl setups in game due to how self auras are handled in sim

[amber olive]

there is a version with his sig iirc? although people try to use 4 star options because the weapon banner in this game is dogshit and ppl wanna use stuff thats relatively accessible

if anything i just think the nice thing about the team is that it doesnt chang much with and without random frame delay, however, in reality, get an unlucky fischl timing for her to overtake and apply electro, you are stuck with that electro till next rot now because of her A4

so thats a gameplay limitation to keep in mind

[wooden belfry]

yea, what i hope is that while people will be able to write configs like they always did, there'll also be a more simplistic UI that will basically "write the config for you" by pressing stuff like buttons, options from a dropdown list, character setup pages, loop rules options, etc etc

[amber olive]

the best alternative to this rn is something like https://genshin-rotation.com its not perfect as some stuff like kazuha E doesnt export with the proper wording sim needs but its pretty good for beginners

for substats though the easiest ive found is to use the TC tab on optimizer and export your KQMS stats in gcsim format

dont need to optimize if you know what stats youre putting in

pretty sure you can export your own stats in gcsim format too for ppl that wanna check their own builds

would be great if it was all in one place although its nice theres other tools that help with it

[vivid ember]

😔

[amber olive]

😭

it should work when put into gcsim right tho?

[vivid ember]

should do?

[amber olive]

like you dont define the hits which have geo in a config lol

[vivid ember]

3n2d is very much doable

[amber olive]

yeah ive done it myself

[vivid ember]

sim should let it work

[wooden belfry]

[wooden belfry]

yea, needing to Frankenstein your config from multiple tool sources is more cumbersome, and is prone to causing you to setup the config incorrectly. If the actual devs of the sim will make it themselves, it'll be far more effective. But this is a lot to ask considering how much they've done and how much they need to maintain what they already made

[night orchid]

just learning sim and optimiser is a great way to do simple tc without too much time consumption

[amber olive]

unfortunate news for you, need more sim devs 😔

not many games at all have a full on simulator built for them in the first place. i unfortunately dont know golang myself so i cant do anything on the coding side 😔

[unkempt sandal]

honestly i dont see the point in doing sheets for things where sims can be done

it forces you to make a config and rotation which is actually possible, so you cant do stuff like impossible combos or fake ER

less prone to mistakes

gives you more info, like field time, dmg distribution over time

[amber olive]

if sims were more accessible to people i feel sheets wouldve started to faze out. however, a major reason theyre still used is because

1. again that distrust for gcsim
2. people dont know how to use gcsim in general
3. wfpsim isnt always gonna update for beta chars so pre tc kinda has to use sheets at times

although i think its worse when someone makes an entire sim just to use the sample mapping to do a sheet calc

like

the maths all there done for you

why you gotta then waste your time resheeting it?

seen ppl be like "if the result doesnt match up with what i expect its bad but if it does match up then its good" like

[vivid ember]

when i make a sheet, the result can be whatever i want

[amber olive]

i mean, what are you calcing if not the output of the team?

"the result can be whatever i want" to me implies just writing in the dmg numbers and posting a screenshot with no assumptions to say "hey guys look calcs" 😭 😭

[halcyon abyss]

the fact that c6 brand new 4* are fair game but standard banner weapons aren’t is kinda wack

[amber olive]

is this the mf PS tester that was like 130k dps vs 6k or some shit?

[vivid ember]

yeah

[amber olive]

they arent though

[halcyon abyss]

wdym

[vivid ember]

theres a vid but i cant install 309MB reasonably 😭

[amber olive]

if you look at the KQM chevreuse guide right now theyre working with C2 maximum

[halcyon abyss]

oh i just meant on gcsim

like the front page database calcs

[amber olive]

just the FAQ calcs for now have C6 chevreuse done already because its easier to calc c6 then remove the buff for c2 than add it later

[amber olive]

would b nice if u could sort by cons but the stuff in the database is only what people choose to upload

simpact isnt gcsim after all

[vivid ember]

i only just read the subtext as well, what even is the point of this comparison

[amber olive]

its just a db for sims

[amber olive]

arle = big neuvi

real

[unkempt sandal]

i just take it as a c1 arle showcase w correct dmg tbh

[amber olive]

i assume thats from luna or?

[vivid ember]

and its against a 10mil HP fatui BoL operative

[unkempt sandal]

they have the first n1 doing like 150k-170k on vaporize

with r1

[vivid ember]

yeah its kei-luna

[amber olive]

guess they didnt upload that in their discord

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1045346783477383259/1227401962933456906/2024-04-10_08-33-50.mp4?ex=66284627&is=6615d127&hm=f2ec62ad10a9e3c1e4565b0a18b3683ac35c6e6c1f146d9dc3e15b95c0c56ef1&

this was the one they posted yesterday

but iirc its c0r1?

the stats look pretty fkn high though lmfao

[halcyon abyss]

yeah that would be really nice

[amber olive]

ah no c1r1

[halcyon abyss]

i think gcsim could be improved so much pretty easily by just making it easier to edit db sims and stuff like y’all were talking abt

[vivid ember]

i cant share the video itself but the telegram link is https://t.me/TeamMew/1696

[unkempt sandal]

yeah if gcsim had a gui it would be perfect

[amber olive]

ah ffs i dont have a telegram acc so cant download it coz need to open it in app

😭

[vivid ember]

first arle na was 150k novape because pyro aura

😭

[amber olive]

c1r1 is like a different beast tbf

iirc its like

almost 70% over c0 dm r1?

lmao

[unkempt sandal]

i mean c1 is like +25% and r1 is like +30% over white tassel right

so around +65% from 0+0 to 1+1

[amber olive]

mhm

[unkempt sandal]

neuvi is +70% from 0+0 to 1+1 except you can get around it by using enemy auras to gain 3rd stack

[amber olive]

yeah although i wouldnt wanna rely on that

[unkempt sandal]

its not something you can count on every time but it does happen enough that you hv to consider it

[amber olive]

well

depends on the scenario

because its hydro reactions specifically

so if its an enemy with a permanent innate aura

you now get less stacks

coz u can basically only trigger hydro + that aura

[vivid ember]

there's 1m of the video i can manage to upload

[amber olive]

unless its an electro enemy then you can get 3 coz of EC aura

[amber olive]

i mean streamable exists if thats easier but i can relate to having bad net

[vivid ember]

😔

uploading 300MB anywhere is the challenge

[clear spear]

have you considered getting gud

[amber olive]

[vivid ember]

when i go back to uni

[amber olive]

id say unlisted youtube but

bonk

[amber olive]

i dont wanna go back to my uni dorm the internet is dogshit 😭 😭

[clear spear]

youtube takes eons to upload

[amber olive]

400kb/s no thank you

[clear spear]

i hate it

[amber olive]

[vivid ember]

[amber olive]

in london of all places 😭

[vivid ember]

i get like 100Mb/s on the wifi at my uni

[clear spear]

oh no

br*tain

[vivid ember]

but i dont dorm unfortunately

[clear spear]

[sand trout]

lmao how even

yeah that aint right

[vivid ember]

[amber olive]

grots uses frames from gcsim but idk if it factors hitlag?

[vivid ember]

and i dont think hitlag can account for 2 hits

[sand trout]

yeah 2 hits is too much

out of 6

if it was out of like 10 yeah ok maybe

[amber olive]

tbf u do need to dash pretty quickly for 3n2d

so idk how much lenience its giving on when its dashing

coz it wont be doing it frame perfectly i imagine?

[vivid ember]

when does gcsim determine to dash?

[sand trout]

yeah but its not hard as fuck like n4dn1

[amber olive]

ok that ones just unreasonable imo

[sand trout]

i think i pulled it off once

[amber olive]

i dont like doing n4 anyways

[sand trout]

yeah

[amber olive]

i can do it but

[vivid ember]

i've done n4dn1 fairly reliably

[amber olive]

n4 feels ass

[sand trout]

with practice yeah but it just feels like shit

[vivid ember]

3n2d is better and easier

yeah

[amber olive]

mhm

n2 dashes feels a lot cleaner

[sand trout]

also idc i got c6 navia

[vivid ember]

whel

[sand trout]

imagine doing na

[vivid ember]

hides nilou

[amber olive]

i mean im no whale but i have a good few cons on my acc 😭

[sand trout]

im also no whale lmao just saved and lucky

[amber olive]

the yae c1 was an accident 💀

get it off my acc

[sand trout]

anw

it is curious that the rot doesnt work

do the other dash cancels work

@vivid ember

in grot

[vivid ember]

n4dn1 and n3dn2

[sand trout]

ok i expected first one not to work

but second one timing is too easy almost

weird

[clear spear]

I love the random dn jumpscares

[sand trout]

ok yeah hitlag

cool

[amber olive]

makes sense

[wet lantern]

you guys do know that the frames for this thing comes from gcsim right? the dev for that site hangs out in gcsim discord

[sand trout]

wild srl appears

[amber olive]

yeah i mentioned they do earlier iirc

[vivid ember]

the main thing is we know these strings work

[sand trout]

kek

[wet lantern]

they would be subject to same frame perfect complaints u got about gcsim

since it's literally the same frame counts

[vivid ember]

n3dn2 is very easy

n4dn1 is pretty frame perfect

and 3n2 is in the middle

but n3dn2 is likely subject to hitlag

[halcyon abyss]

it would also be really nice they could have something to automatically distribute subs

or smthn like that

[vivid ember]

3n2 is the main outlier on hitlag vs hits

[amber olive]

swear i remember using 2n3d anyways and not having many issues

[halcyon abyss]

somewhere in the universe there’s a perfect world where gcsim and the optimizer are integrated

[amber olive]

but i could be wrong

[vivid ember]

i dont think ive done 2n3d

[amber olive]

gcsim does have a substat optimizer iirc? just you need to run it locally

[wet lantern]

idk which is easy vs not but all these frames come from in game recordings. you can always compare the video recording to your own game play and check if it's faster or slower. it's all in here https://docs.gcsim.app/reference/characters/navia

[amber olive]

i dont have a link to it unfortunately

[halcyon abyss]

wait that’s fire i didn’t know that

[wet lantern]

https://docs.gcsim.app/guides/substat_optimizer

[amber olive]

i may be misremembering as my navia testing comes from trial and other peoples accounts

[amber olive]

tyvm

[halcyon abyss]

well then make it one that’s easy enough for stupid ppl like me to use

[wet lantern]

and no strictly speaking that's just for kqm subs, and support is meh

it's not a "optimize my account for me"

[vivid ember]

if you know how to use optimizer/lilbro, you can export gcsim characters from there

[halcyon abyss]

wdym?

[amber olive]

yeah mb i just dont use optimizer for anything other than "copy paste the gcsim stats from the theorycraft tab"

[vivid ember]

optimize substats on optimizer, then the gcsim export button

[wet lantern]

i don't think you are aware of what kind of ask this is

[halcyon abyss]

wait that’s so fire i didn’t know that

[wet lantern]

well depending on the lvl of integration i guess

[halcyon abyss]

yeah ofc that’s why i said perfect world

[sand trout]

surely one day we get complete ui that does all this

surely

[halcyon abyss]

this is far from that lmao

[wet lantern]

they are fundamentally incompatible

[halcyon abyss]

how??

[wet lantern]

well.. again depending on what u mean by integration

[sand trout]

oh in code?

[wet lantern]

if u just want to export stats fred already added the above

[sand trout]

just rewrite everything!!!!! /s pls dont burn out we need you

[halcyon abyss]

i didn’t know that it’s super useful

[wet lantern]

if u want to optimize your own account using gcsim as target it's fundamentally incompatible

[sand trout]

oh yeah

[amber olive]

watching the navia frames video ik it shouldnt matter but doesnt look like frames were ever counted with her infusion up for what combos would be possible?

[sand trout]

if you by some miracle were able to save all the formulas used during the sims runtime you could be able to alter artifact stats in charas (minus er) and optimise using sim that way

[wet lantern]

i didnt do the count but... why would this matter?

[amber olive]

it shouldnt do

which is y itd be weird certain combos arent working on grots when they work in practice

unless the only difference is hitlag

[wet lantern]

this was discussed in the very early days. you would need some sort of symbolic math library... and uh.. ya that's beyond my lvl of expertise

[amber olive]

but shouldnt be enough hitlag to stop 2 full hits getting it

[sand trout]

yup you need symbolic stuff for sure

[vivid ember]

theres {3n2}, {n3dn2}, and {n4dn1}

[wet lantern]

what's grots

[sand trout]

interesting that it was thought of though

[amber olive]

genshin rotations

sorry

[wet lantern]

he doesnt taken into account hitlag. it gets way too messy. at which point just use gcsim

he would have to basically reimplement the entire gcsim frames system to do the same

[vivid ember]

notice an incredibly long gap on n3n2 cause i dashed too early for n4dn1

[sand trout]

ive used symbolic stuff in matlab but thats completely different

[amber olive]

yeah i get that entirely

which is y i said if its possible it should work in gcsim anyways

[wet lantern]

i mean the initial goal for gcsim was for account comparison/optimization... it's just it became sort of computationally not feasible

[sand trout]

i see

[wet lantern]

that being said... random substat seems to work but ppl just write it off as irrelevant

[sand trout]

?

wym random sub

[amber olive]

random sub was an interesting topic

[wet lantern]

rather than making substat assumptions, each iteration just random generate the substats (as if you got a new artifact with certain main stat and upgrade to +20)

[sand trout]

computational nightmare

[vivid ember]

{n3dn3}, {n3dn3}, and {dn3dn3}, these dont work

[wet lantern]

no it turned out that even with 1 trial per set of random subs, it actually converges extremely fast

like 700 to 800ish iter

[sand trout]

oh?

oh wow that is actually fast

[wet lantern]

ya, and this was using that random action hb sim, so all actions are randomized, with furina in the mix

with something that's more "stable" i.e. rotation like, it converged even faster

[unkempt sandal]

i think the easiest solution for this is to just not sim difficult / frame perfect / impossible combos 🤷

or point them out when they do appear

youre on your honour to not put 3(n3c) n2c into the raiden sim

[amber olive]

checking some gcsim configs both n3d n2 and n4d n1 work anyways

so its just a display issue as thought

[amber olive]

[sand trout]

theres a reason you should always share the config when posting about a sim here

[amber olive]

[sand trout]

transparency

[wet lantern]

u got a couple points mixed up in there.

if a couple is truly impossible (i.e. cant do it with macro), then gcsim should not allow it. calculator should only allow what is in game impossible

however, a calculator should not limit what is frame perfect possible vs what is "humanly" possible. the later is a user problem

[charred jasper]

LOL true

[sand trout]

if you show everyone that you did use that combo from hell then its whatever

[unkempt sandal]

yeah i agree i kind of threw them both in the same statement

[wet lantern]

and funny enough actually gcsim doesnt allow everything that is game possible..... some of the bowtae stuff for example is faster than gcsim

[sand trout]

that dude is unhinged

[amber olive]

not that the calculator should limit raiden being able to do 3(n3c) n2c
moreso people shouldnt use it in a sim and call it reasonable imo, but id say the same for a sheet

[unkempt sandal]

theres nothing fundamentally wrong with simming 12(n1cd) hu tao or no shield lyney
but it does matter if people lose the nuance and use it to blindly compare

[wet lantern]

well no my response is to your earlier complaint about lyney sim being impossible. if it's truly impossible in game then it should be reported and adjusted in gcsim

but if it's just not practical because way too tight.. then that's not a gcsim problem

[sand trout]

people will always blindly compare it happens with sheets too

[amber olive]

thats why i said earlier id be curious to see if it actually was impossible ingame

[sand trout]

the problem is when people use that info to intentionally promote an opinion

that is not on solid ground

[amber olive]

coz any time ive had someone complain about it to me theres not actually been any proof to say whats calc'd is wrong

[unkempt sandal]

im ngl i heard that the lyney chevreuse sim was impossible once off hand, idk how real it is

[amber olive]

had ppl trying to tell me it was bad and wrong yesterday as well but nothing was provided in support rly so

[wet lantern]

ya... sorry see this is basically what happens every time we chase after a claim "sim is impossible". the answer has 99% of the time been "we heard from somewhere"

this is why we include video proofs in docs

of where frame counts come from

[amber olive]

funny enough the times i see smth shown to be wrong in sim isnt from someone saying "it looks wrong" but is from someone whos actually looked at the sample and spotted an error themselves

😭

[wet lantern]

but ya.. i really wanted to shill this. it was kyle's idea actually. i didnt even think it would be possible that it converges this fast so i never tried it

originally i thought i had to do something like..

• generate a set of random substats
• run 1000 trial of set random substats
• repeat for another set, up to 1000 sets

so that's like 1000 x 1000 iterations to run

kyle suggested try just 1 iter per set and see if it converges.... turns out it converges stupidly fast. actually if you take any sim and just run 1 iter, then 10, then 20, then 50.. you'll see the mean doesn't move nearly as much as one would have thought

[wet lantern]

why sample exists and why it used to be called debug

[amber olive]

[amber olive]

did yall ever implement this as an option for people to test?

[wet lantern]

yup it's on a PR i didnt merge yet

[amber olive]

[unkempt sandal]

i know it would be a bad idea but sometimes i wish the dps number was hidden from the preview or somehow put further down

to discourage mindless dps pvp

[amber olive]

easiest way to get feedback and testing on it is to let ppl try it themselves after all

[wet lantern]

but like.. it gives u lots of cool data. u can compare say 90th percentile dps of 2 teams

[wet lantern]

it was hidden for a while

all that did was frustrate legitimate users

cause ppl would just send screenshots

🤷‍♂️

which imo was even worse cause i cant click to see the config

[unkempt sandal]

sending screenshots would just be worse

yeah

[wet lantern]

you're fighting the wrong battle there tbh

[unkempt sandal]

wasnt simpact originally a straight up leaderboard

[amber olive]

delete snipping tool the amount of ppl i see just screenshoting simpact or the front page of a sim bothers me to hell and back

😭

[unkempt sandal]

thats what i heard

[wet lantern]

ppl that want to argue will pick and choose whatever advances their argument

there's no logic

[amber olive]

[amber olive]

i remember some ranking system on there sorting by top DPS

but

that was a long time ago

[wet lantern]

i seen the same person uses sim when it backs their argument, then turn right around and say "sim is inaccurate" when it didnt back their other position

[amber olive]

join the club

[charred jasper]

Ppl do the same shit with sheets

It's not a sims issue it's a ppl issue

[amber olive]

mhm

[wet lantern]

in the early days yup. that was intentional. we did it basically following this idea: https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/PremedititatedProvocation

ended up taking it away because rather than provoking thoughtful analysis... turns out this community is just full of trolls. hardly got any useful error catching/feedbacks

[patent hare]

WARNING

The message above with "github" may be part of an ongoing preferred scam method.

Do not click the link if you are unsure.

If you believe this to be a scam, please ping a moderator immediately

[amber olive]

screenshot the sheet numbers, dont bother putting assumptions next to them or linking sheet
screenshot the sim numbers, dont bother linking and dont bother sending config

if it matches what they want, pog, if it doesnt, its shit

people make sad

[wet lantern]

why arent u guys straight up banning this. i dont get it

[amber olive]

ive said many times

i want it gone

and i brought it up again recently

so hopefully we can get smth done about it now

!!tcrules

[misty thistle]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SaM8Tm--SOxKoWEFvoX90XUQoiazx7j9AjzmiskSHL0/edit

[amber olive]

we have rule 1a about "blanket / bold statements"

but like

imo whats currently there doesnt stop people doing that shit

and if it would then its never enforced

which is y i want to rework some things as a result

[unkempt sandal]

like 5 hours ago there was a straight up "best pyro dps" poll in arlecchino tc 😭

[amber olive]

maybe we shouldve banned the polls feature

/j we kept it on under the same rules as gifs, bonk if you spam em

but mods also have permission to just

end a poll early so

if someone makes something cringe we can just shut it down if needsbe lol

[sand trout]

discord doesnt have a fucken perm for it yet

[amber olive]

[desert kettle]

just merge it

[wet lantern]

u can hit the button too

[desert kettle]

so true #983391844631212112 message

[wet lantern]

go read my essay if u have the time for this

[amber olive]

And thats where?

[wet lantern]

are u not in gcsim server?

[amber olive]

I am but that channel link kyle sent just links to the commit

And theres not rly any discussion on the commit page

[wet lantern]

ya.. didnt write docs cause it was POC (but kyle merged). some discussions here #845087716541595671 message

[glacial knoll]

!!lilbro

[misty thistle]

https://teucerdev.github.io/little-bro/

[wooden belfry]

man i sure do love it when discord releases a feature then forget to let mods moderate said feature

for example, this one lol

Its a miracle this feature is not abused as much as it can be

[unkempt sandal]

hasn’t that been around for a long time

[amber olive]

its just markdown text yeah lmao

[wooden belfry]

i believe it was added like 1 or 2 years ago, thing is, when it was added many general chats had people spam chatting with it on to draw attention
thankfully people forgot they can do giant text so its not very common to see it

[copper cliff]

Can anyone share me their neuvillete build to see what I should aim for please

This is what I currently have with his weapon

[fallen jetty]

Yeah, I barely see it used. How do we use it?

[fallen jetty]

Just check out genshin optimizer

[sand trout]

look up markdown

you just put # ## or ### and its a type of header

[fallen jetty]

I just did

ohh there is different types?

[sand trout]

anw wrong channel scram

[clear ivy]

not the place but hey as long as i get to show my naurvillette

[copper cliff]

Oo that's a very good neuvillete

Thank you

[molten iris]

If Neuvillette is on the field for 8 seconds, then Kazuha uses E, returning to Neuvillette so that the weapon buff disappears, will the 10 second timer start again? Or will there be only 2 seconds left?

[echo timber]

The 10s timer will start again yes

You can check it out in overworld lul

[molten iris]

Thanks

[glacial knoll]

!!lilbro

[misty thistle]

https://teucerdev.github.io/little-bro/

[brittle aspen]

Wanting to try to max out a Yoi team (with shielder and healer) and any thoughts on substitutions for this comp - Yoi (C0R1)/Jean (C6 + VV + FS)/Furina (C0R0)/Thoma (C6)

[sand trout]

as long as you want it to be a furina team jean is firmly locked in there

[brittle aspen]

I just want it to be the strongest Yoi team that I should have to minimize dodging with

[sand trout]

then yelan Bennett zhongli

[brittle aspen]

That really sheets better? I was hoping something would dethrone that comp

[sand trout]

you cant beat Bennett on a pure atk scaler and zhongli is also the best shielder for what you want so

[brittle aspen]

any idea how much better it sheets?

[sand trout]

the one thing im not sure about is whether furina cons would shift it and how much jean c4 and freedom sworn influences that team

[brittle aspen]

thought that Jean's C2 + freedom sworn might edge some of it out

[sand trout]

yeah i meant c2 jean

honestly im not sure and idt any sheets exist for that

you might want to look into using gcsim for it

the team i mentioned is already there

[brittle aspen]

semi-niche team since not a lot of standard sheets account for standard char cons I suppose

[sand trout]

mhm

plus there arent many people still interested in yoi

might want to ask around in yoi mains but i have no idea if they do tc

[brittle aspen]

Most of the mains subs scare me with the amount of thirst

[amber olive]

They messaged me about working with them and chev mains back when the chev faq was released but the peoples opinions on others there were very... Lets say strong

I remember seeing someone say smth like "yoi doesnt need a shield, this isnt dark souls" as well so 😭

[sand trout]

yeah maybe dont go there then

[brittle aspen]

Well for feels I just threw in that team in 12-1 second half and it felt hopelessly powerless. I’m thinking Yelan instead of Furina will actually be better - my curse is I’m trying to force being able to use Yoi as well as Jean since I have cons and got a second FS, and I’m sure it’s just not going to add up very well

I don’t think I’ve had fun with Yoi in floors 11 or 12 outside of electro bat boss though

[sand trout]

jean without furina is pointless

[brittle aspen]

But atk speed is fun, and the atk/NA dmg from FS is a thing

[echo timber]

Wait yoi w furina and thoma? doesn't thoma eat the hydro if u r near + furina alone isnt enough hydro for her?

[sand trout]

not even close to what kazuha or a subdps would provide to the team in dmg

or just bennet lol

[echo timber]

ong

[brittle aspen]

Yeah, it seemed Furina was doing a chunk of the vapes since the app was so slow

[brittle aspen]

Poor second freedom sworn might be only actually useful on Kuki for Tighnari spread or something

[misty thistle]

https://teucerdev.github.io/little-bro/

[amber olive]

ghostpinging

[low shale]

as always

[blazing spoke]

Do we have Neuvi team calcs with Baizhu vs ZL

[abstract phoenix]

Who uses the new off field burning artifact set, reverie

[glossy depot]

nobody

or at least its not bis on anyone I think, could probably figure out a use for niche burnmelt teams

[unkempt sandal]

it should be technically better than shime on burnmelt ganyu

unsure about wt

[clear ivy]

not sure about that

it's really easy to not need em on that team ggiven nahida

[devout cliff]

It's the same, unless u play Nahida XL in that case u can burst on Ganyu but that team is so painful haha

Dehya+Burn ain't enough for Ganyu burst

[tepid crest]

at c1 dehya, does she end up wanting HP% > Atk% ?

[shrewd flower]

chat is chlorinde OP or nah ?

[vivid ember]

its been like half an hour 😭 wait until the character TC channels have released, we have footage, and the TC'ers have produced calculations, at this point it will only be feelscrafting

[shrewd flower]

[south oar]

Is her footage out?

Video

[subtle egret]

when do they usually like

post?

[winter steeple]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/804559737394954320/1232878143229132943/SPOILER_VID_20240425_101233_785.mp4?ex=662b0ebf&is=6629bd3f&hm=4b812d270a34d5adf7a0e019b5f65b12d7ed8161d6957c67fe7a264027ca6dc3&

siegwienne

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/804559737394954320/1232878144231444550/SPOILER_VID_20240425_101252_540.mp4?ex=662b0ebf&is=6629bd3f&hm=93d0a911afb07d1701a243021cddb9bc06c62b18fff6b5d0af6fc942fdced507&

clorinde

@south oar @subtle egret

[winter steeple]

yea she always wants hp%

her c1 makes her especially reliant

in fact she's only usable at c1

[subtle egret]

YOOOOOOOOOO

[kind escarp]

is unfinished reverie worth trying to get to work as of this patch or is it pretty much dead in the water until natlan releases? and also in terms of team comps, who should be holding unfinished reverie in a burning/burn-melt team?

[unkempt sandal]

it can definitely work in burnmelt teams as intended it's just a very lackluster upgrade at best compared to the existing solutions (wt on ganyu and mh on wrio)

[kind escarp]

honestly its so sad :(( i was hoping it would make true burning teams viable - my baizhu nahida and two other pyro unit team dreams are still not coming true yet 😭

thank you for the reply though i appreciate it <333 :))

[unkempt sandal]

np

it would take a way bigger buff to make pure burning teams viable, the dot is just not there yet

at least it's a 2pc +18 atk% in the worst case

[winter steeple]

@calm cypress I'm late but here

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Or5-NSqiaLbvDyPspu0PL8q0bt9_XvAvgUWhY8pISwc/https/i.imgur.com/5A64ib7.mp4

Yep it is her skill rather than her CA

[kind escarp]

genuinely so sad to me, even burgeon is lackluster compared to hyperbloom or just pure nilou bloom damage :((( pyro dendro reactions are just so ass it makes me upset to have to face that reality until natlan is out

[potent anvil]

pyro will forever pay the price for vape

[lofty wave]

Any atk scaler is forever paying the price for bennett

[small gate]

Until pyro archon save us from this madness

[lofty wave]

watch

as the meta devolves into Bennett Archon Core

DPS Bennett Archon Shred/IR

[pine ivy]

You see the vision. The burning set is gonna be catered towards Iansan. You’ll see.

[kind escarp]

I’m waiting for the uprising of burning and burgeon reactions once Natlan is here 😭😭 genuinely can’t wait any longer

[whole lion]

Don’t forget a third road: Childe set

[whole lion]

Emilie set

[pine ivy]

[pine ivy]

Ah yes. The set literally no one else but him benefits from the full passive?

(Unless Mona?)

[glacial knoll]

!!lilbro

[misty thistle]

https://teucerdev.github.io/little-bro/

[lofty wave]

@amber olive i need your help with some maff

[amber olive]

uh oh

[lofty wave]

Furino related

how much of a loss is 1/2/3 teammates drained on C0 VS C2 Fully maxed

[amber olive]

should be about the same on both no?

[lofty wave]

idk which is why im asking

[amber olive]

her only sources of dmg are from her skill basically

and its a multiplicative increase

so you increase by 10% per teammate drained

and youd lose about 10% DMG for every teammate that stopped draining

[lofty wave]

but isnt due to the nature of Multiplicative numbers it can result in a bigger increase too?

1.2 Damage bonus x 1.2 Extra modifier will result in 1.44x hence why i ask

[amber olive]

roughly coz her Q does do dmg but barely

[amber olive]

i mean i can put together smth quickly if u want but unless im being a dumbass it shouldnt?

[lofty wave]

if you can please do. i also need it so i can make better judgement on furina teams etc

and having hard numbers to backup would be great

[amber olive]

well the hard numbers will come from my calcs that were used for KQM stuff

[lofty wave]

thats fine

[amber olive]

looks like i was about right tho?

lemme make a copy of this page rq

[lofty wave]

for reference im tryna gauge what if i swap out kazuha(ironic i know) and baizhu out of my neuvi team for other stuff

[amber olive]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gNUM9nkUl0QY8ITlacN4jgw7UfUbTIzekoy1grYMDoU/edit?usp=sharing

was about there

doesnt stay exactly 10% as it goes up

but its close enough

closer to 9.5% ish

[lofty wave]

would it be different if it was C2 values cuz of the HP% increase to the mv?

im guessing not

but

good to know

[amber olive]

shouldnt be?

or if it is it wouldnt change too much

lemme just slap 140% HP in lmao

[lofty wave]

yeah its same

aight

[amber olive]

yeah it baaarely changed the values

[lofty wave]

good to know

so now all im gonna say is

kazuha and baizhu are getting the boot out of my team

[amber olive]

[lofty wave]

i just wanted a good reason to kick kazuha

[amber olive]

welp as long as it was helpful lmao

keep in mind kazu has res shred and dmg% too so

[lofty wave]

its fine ill cope i just wanted a reason to kick him

[amber olive]

it be like that

[lofty wave]

@amber olive now i need a good reason to kick him out of here

do you reckon i can cope hard enough with xianyun

[amber olive]

[lofty wave]

and plunge combo koko

[amber olive]

a lot of xianyuns value comes from dmg% and crit