・genshin-spoilers

[ashen ocean]

Two instances of guthred existed at once

One with capitano always

The other in the NK

Since you can play the incandescent ode of resurrection without playing world quests

You also can meet Bona and Cocuik in the NK during the quest as they aid you to reach mavuika

[frigid lily]

Yeah

I liked that part honestly

Only good thing about the entire AQ kek

[ashen ocean]

The leylines having copies of a person rather than the person itself also explains the ancient name for Sanhaj being present 500 years later after he dies in a Hail Mary of creating a proto Night Kingdom at Mare Jivari (and also having soul supposedly trapped there in a fashion similar to the milileth in the Chasm)

And also gives a plausible explanation for the existence of Dottore’s clones

[frigid lily]

Not sure about the Dottore clone part but yeah I get what you mean

It also makes me think about like

[ashen ocean]

Dottore goes to meet himself in the leylines, brings his own recorded action back, “resurrects” himself and lo a clone

This way he can possess numerous “save files” of himself from different time periods

[frigid lily]

How to "preserve" things from getting erased from Irminsul
Because you do it by writing fictitious story tales that are metaphors for actual events
They are kind of like the ancient names in a way?

[frigid lily]

Ah I see what you mean

[ashen ocean]

Meanwhile Khaenrians and Hilichurls are barred from this, forced to endure a slow painful existence, their will permanently married to their dwindling elemental power/ memories with no reprieve and slowly succumbing to abyssal corruption eroding both halves of your existence

[ashen ocean]

Yeah
Tumaini will go to someone else similar to the travellers recorded story, when the traveller finally returns it to the NK and its wayobs

[frigid lily]

This doesn't have anything to do with the memory topic but, hillichurls have technically speaking been around for longer than 500 years, could this mean that the same thing is plausible for the curse of immortality?

[ashen ocean]

Yeah

Also

[frigid lily]

The second descender's body was immortal according to the skirk artifact set

[ashen ocean]

Pure blooded (i felt racist even typing this) Khaenrians are the ONLY humans who got a different outcome from the millennia old curse

Other unified civilisation subjects and mixed Khaenrians were instantly turned to Hilichurls

[frigid lily]

I love genshin racism lore
Like what the fuck do you mean Khaenri'ah used to be called motherfucking Khraun-Arya

[ashen ocean]

But the pure blooded Khaenrians somehow retain their humanity ??

Also, am sure that the monsters skirk kills in her sets description are the citizens of hyperborea / golden city

[ashen ocean]

Irmin self deleted himself inside his escape room when he heard the Shades and the PO approaching

Also, i rewatched the latest aashikai video

I got a decent explanation for the elemental sovereigns oxymoron

That dragons were all forced to take a distinctively elemental form after the PO arrived and changed the laws of teyvat

[slender haven]

Well Rene's philosophy was based on a literal actual race theory lmao
I used to think it was just him being sc*zho and giving weird names to things but Natlantea throws a wrench into things

[slender haven]

Irmin is definitely not dead
Imo I think he became the Loom of Fate

[ashen ocean]

It would be weird if he didnt die

You had 4 whole shades, 5 archons + one en route, there

[slender haven]

It'd be weirder if he didn't

[ashen ocean]

And likely even the PO himself

[slender haven]

Dainsleif fought him before they arrived

[slender haven]

PO was still on his death bed so he didn't show up personally
Now they're sleepy from doing the bare minimum

Also if Dainsleif can survive it why can't Irmin

[ashen ocean]

Dain got punished but let off for being a good boy

[slender haven]

No

[ashen ocean]

If anyone would have seen irmin die it wouldve been dain

[slender haven]

That's not how that works
They all got punished

[slender haven]

Dain tried to kill Irmin

Irmin's consciousness is still lurking in the world, probably in the Loom

And now that the loom is finished

Well it won't be long before we get "the return of the king"

[ashen ocean]

No like
Not gonna kill you on the spot kind of letting off is what am referring to

[slender haven]

They didn't give a singular shit about Dainsleif personally
They were sent there to blow up Khaenri'ah with 0 care to everyone there

[ashen ocean]

So you are telling Dain lost to or failed to kill or arrest Irmin for the shades arrival ?

I think another reason dain blames himself is he couldnt keep irmin in check/ arrest for the shades arrival

[slender haven]

We don't know what the exact event that started the Cataclysm but we do know Anfortas had to take over for Irmin because he was "unavailable" or something

[ashen ocean]

Unfit to rule, yeah

[ashen ocean]

And negotiate for lighter punishment

[slender haven]

And Anfortas fought in the Cataclysm so Irmin wasn't there for it
Also we know from the Xbox wings that Dain did try to commit "regicide"

[slender haven]

They didn't negotiate

Maybe Dain's attack on Irmin is what started the Cataclysm, since Irmin's body was so full of abyssal power it being destroyed would have a huge shockwave that could have even alerted Celestia

[ashen ocean]

Ik, but it was a dream or a chance nonetheless

Like a desperate attempt

[slender haven]

It would also explain why Dain is so bitter beyond just his brother being a silly little fellow

[ashen ocean]

Dain had

[ashen ocean]

But the abyssal vessel was the sibling not irmin
Also, it wouldnt work coz Irmin himself started the cataclysm by shaking the foundations of the world

And the sinners were on standby to get their world shattering power

[slender haven]

He only used the Sibling as a conduit to channel abyssal power for himself

Like a middle man

Abyss -> Sibling -> Irmin

And maybe the Sinners got involved later on since it seems likely they could have been working together prior

[ashen ocean]

Dain starting cataclysm on accident doesnt make sense

[slender haven]

Irmin shaking the foundation of the world was just the lead up to the Cataclysm not the start of it

[slender haven]

It does

[ashen ocean]

All that latent abyssal energy would have been hazardous yes

[slender haven]

Least tarded Ayato Coper moment

[ashen ocean]

But the way the cataclysm affected every corner of teyvat;
It was a channeled effort and cannot be a result of assassination gone wrong imo

Doesnt make sense for the sinners to back stab Irmin during a crucial moment and bank on stealing his powers then

[slender haven]

Irmin's body's destruction was just the inciting incident not the only incident
After the Abyss he was keeping under the castle would have exploded and all of the Sinners would have started running amok too

[ashen ocean]

Can you put this in a chronological order ?

[slender haven]

Ok

1. Irmin uses the Sibling as a conduit to obtain abyssal power
2. The Sinners (and maybe Dain himself??) due to their high ranking positions get involved as well and take a lot of the same abyssal power for themselves too.
3. Around this time Rhine probably started making all her abyss babies
4. Things start getting really out of hand and Dainsleif confronts Irmin and somehow destroys him body although his mind could still exist
5. The shockwave from Irmin's destruction causes a chain of events like the Abyss in Khaenri'ah exploding out (since we know the Abyss has been in Khaenri'ah for a long time) and Rhinedottir sending out her abyss kids like Elynas and Durin
6. It starts spreading out to other nations and Celestia sends the shades and archons to try and clean up
7. The Sinners instead of defending leave Khaenri'ah to do their own things as their country gets destroyed.
8. Dain survives and eventually meets the Sibling and start traveling together

[ashen ocean]

My thoughts were same except from 4.

[slender haven]

Ok

So you agree with 5 too then?

[ashen ocean]

My view was

1. Irmin first attempts the big leap forward, but fails and ends into a coma
2. The sinners hide it and Albrecht assumes regency
3. Then, either via sinner efforts or in a horror fashion Irmin wakes up, attempts the ritual and takes the sinners by surprise and enlists their aid
4. Irmin’s actions directly upturn the laws of the world, kick PO in the balls, destroys the fake sky and invites the abyss in, becomes a descender or the strongest being on teyvat with the full power of the abyss, nearly nibelung level, but is unstable. Sinners see the “perfection” / wholly alien power and knowledge and attempt to take it for themselves, fuck up the ritual and all hell breaks loose
5. Sinners see Khaenriah in chaos and with their new found powers, feel above humanity / fearful of the incoming punishment, and flee in a flurry . Dain alone feels remorseful and stays back
6. Dain survives and meets sibling and travel together until sibling jumps ships

[ashen ocean]

Kinda

[frigid lily]

#ReneDidNothingWrong

[ashen ocean]

My reasoning being that the sinners made their own “gnoses” from Irmin’s remains / power like Nibelung’s fate

[slender haven]

But Irmin was already using the Sibling as an abyssal conduit as early as when Dain was just a young knight and your timeline leaves no room for Dain's regicide. I think Anfortas' regency would have happened early on during the Cataclysm itself since he was mainly just trying to lead refugees out of Khaneri'ah and trying to fight against the monsters. I think the Loom of Fate IS Irmin's attempt at descenderhood, after all if he replaces all of the leylines then he truly would be a rival to the world itself.

[slender haven]

True

I'm just imagining Rene asking all of the people he's eaten whether he's done anything wrong and them just all saying he hasn't in response because he controls them lol

[ashen ocean]

I count using the sibling as part of the big leap forward
Dain’s regicide was alongside the sinners turning on irminc but since he stayed back he got the full credit

[ashen ocean]

But yeah i agree with loom of fate

Nothint more foundation shaking or upturning than battling your sworn enemy’s admin access to the server

[slender haven]

Well using the Sibling was when Dain was still young as told by the Xbox wings
So this "great leap forward" was over a period of a couple years at least and I don't think Irmin entered a coma or anything and that his incapictation was from Dain's attack

[slender haven]

Mhm, plus if he suceeds then he'd technically be the new IRMINsul and they just can't resist a pun like that

I do agree that the Sinners were partially using Irmin/not particularly loyal to him though asides from turning him into gnoses

Maybe except Vedrfolnir though since he indirectly turned Caribert into part of the Loom of Fate so maybe he's still loyal to Irmin?

[ashen ocean]

I meant great leap forward as in the big event, the final rebellion, yadda yadda

[slender haven]

Hmm alright

[ashen ocean]

Humanity finally being free of fate = leap forward

[slender haven]

Ah I understand

[ashen ocean]

Ngl
Vedrfornir gives me creep vibes already

Me thinks hes just using caribert

[slender haven]

Yeah he's a little creepy but funnily enough he was actually discouraging the hillichurls from worshiping him

And he actively told us that he wasn't a god

[ashen ocean]

To avoid a target or floodlight on his being ig

[ashen ocean]

Ig it was out of pride

[slender haven]

Well he also calls himself "a sinner"

[ashen ocean]

Hes second to only the shades imo

[ashen ocean]

Most in teyvat dont know who a sinner is

But they would definitely investigate hilichurl idol of worship

[slender haven]

The Sinners are roughly equal to the shades imo but that's neither here nor there

[ashen ocean]

I would have agreed to it pre 5.1

[slender haven]

Well he didn't say that he was one of the 5 sinners, just a sinner in general
Also he didn't seem like he didn't want the attention, just that they shouldn't worship him since he wasn't a god

He doesn't feel like the kind of guy who shys away from attention like that

Plus any normal person that sees him seemingly just instantly starts worshiping him
Since that one thief back in 1.5 start worshiping the statue recreation of him

[ashen ocean]

But seeing Ronova’s hand me down power to mavuika punch through an abyssal being and through the fake sky tells me none of the sinners are built for that

[slender haven]

Gosoythoth didn't even die from that
Gosoythoth is also probably just a servant/pet of one of the Sinners anyways so they're way stronger

[ashen ocean]

But it had him lose all of his power to ever mount an assault like that for a really reslly reslly long time

[slender haven]

Yes but he was still strong enough that he was going to beat Mavuika if it wasn't for friendship ex machina

[ashen ocean]

Hmm
So like
He was too prideful and hated the concept of gods v

[ashen ocean]

Is that confirmed about the statue ?

[slender haven]

Nah he doesn't seem that petty
his tone of voice was more trying to genuinely convinve them he wasn't worth worshiping

[ashen ocean]

Mavuika didnt use shade power at all in 5.3 did she

[ashen ocean]

So, humble bragging sorts of

[slender haven]

Dain says Chlothar made it as a sign of devotion to Vedrfolnir

[slender haven]

No but there was the Traveler there and there was that cutscene of everyone in Natlan cheering us on and empowering us

[ashen ocean]

In bedtime story ?

[slender haven]

Nah, he's a prophet, and those tend to be fairly humble in most stories

[ashen ocean]

Yeah non of that compared to shade power

[slender haven]

No the previous quest

[ashen ocean]

So a prophet of Irmin , you mean to say ?

[slender haven]

Well Gosoythoth was still just a servant of one of the Sinners
And archons are like the servants of the shades so

[slender haven]

More like the abyss in general

[ashen ocean]

Hmm
Works too
But to what end ?

[slender haven]

The Abyss taking over the world

[ashen ocean]

But the treasure hoarder was dead

[slender haven]

In a worshiping pose

[ashen ocean]

Seemed like an evil prophet or an offering

[slender haven]

The abyss drained him but before he did he started worshiping the statue

[slender haven]

Doesn't really matter though, we'll probably get more answers on the power-scaling in due time

[slender haven]

Something like that

[ashen ocean]

They have to explain Varesa being stronger than the dragon sovereign and the shogun

[ashen ocean]

Which reminrs me

In that video i sent you a week ago

[frigid lily]

Her ass is so fat it can destroy everything duh

[ashen ocean]

From aashikai

[slender haven]

Ass so fat it bends reality

[ashen ocean]

Her claim was that dragons didnt have any form, and where in the first stage of alechmy, the black one

[slender haven]

No they had form

Since the Outlander was asking Nibelung to travel with them

[ashen ocean]

I mean
They did have
But not definite

[slender haven]

And Nibelung said that the dragons they saw were the meaning of the world to him

[slender haven]

Well they could shape shift

[ashen ocean]

They were forced to be defined after PO established the seven

[slender haven]

But so can adepti and stuff

[ashen ocean]

Basically consciousness acquires elemental energy, becomes dragons

PO’s laws force them to take a definite form, and shed their selves for it

[slender haven]

They probably had some definite form to build their civilizations though

[ashen ocean]

Most dragons we meet existed ss consciousness and only materialise when asked or needed to

[slender haven]

No?

[ashen ocean]

The dragon lady Ixtehel and Ajaw

[slender haven]

They were intentionally shoved into statues because they were imprisoned

[ashen ocean]

They dont have forms
They exist as consciousness until demanded otherwise

[slender haven]

Och-Kan used Ixlel as a power source and Ajaw was imprisoned because he was really annoying

They had form previously

[frigid lily]

Speaking of which

The wenut from the desert were dragons, no?

[ashen ocean]

Oh they did
But the seven elements forced them to shed most of their selves to adapt to the new world

[frigid lily]

Sorush said so

[ashen ocean]

Is her claim

[slender haven]

Descendants of them

[frigid lily]

Yeah that

[slender haven]

Well I disagree with that claim

[frigid lily]

And like

[ashen ocean]

https://youtu.be/OtncxuRR6QI?feature=shared

Go to the 20th minute

[frigid lily]

Do you guys remember the uhhh
Limited time pari event
Where we went to that frozen wenut statue
And sorush started rambling on about time
And then the petrified wenut statue fucking disappeared afterwards

[ashen ocean]

Second only to mavuika

[slender haven]

No...

[frigid lily]

Let me try and find it on the wiki

[ashen ocean]

I think that was part of the quest

But yes there is a petrified wenut in the 3.6 desert

Two of them, to be exact

[slender haven]

That's why Capitano isn't playable yet
His ass is so huge it'd instantly one shot everything

[frigid lily]

No I remembered it was from a limited time event that everyone bitched about because of the amount of dialogue

Unless it became permanet afterwards idk

[ashen ocean]

Hoyo hates giving gay men what they want lol

[ashen ocean]

Hmm
Can you link a video of it ?

[slender haven]

Well there was naked Tartaglia in his latest birthday art

[ashen ocean]

Tartaglia belongs in 2021
The only thing the Yaoi community has now is Capiron

[frigid lily]

Varesa next hopefully 🙏

[frigid lily]

Let me try

It was from a while ago

[slender haven]

Ifaron erasure

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/natlan-varesa-dairy-genshin-impact-gif-942204250501976454

[slender haven]

There's a lot of fanart fulfilling that need already

[ashen ocean]

To them, capitano is simply more masc and domineering

[frigid lily]

Fanart is not the same as offical art

[slender haven]

No he's his dad, not daddy
He makes cookies for him and tucks him to sleep

[slender haven]

Well I'm pretty sure they get fanartists to draw birthday art

Sometimes at least

[ashen ocean]

Well

[frigid lily]

I can't wait for the 5.5 livestream so I can see official Varesa art ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[slender haven]

Capitano's true husband is Varka
Ororon and Razor are their electro sons

[ashen ocean]

Works out

[slender haven]

And Rosaria is cryo
The universe itself is making the Varkatano family

[ashen ocean]

Speaking of varka

Where is he rn ?

[slender haven]

The North
Probably Hyperborea

Also probably looking for the Golden Hall for whatever reason

[ashen ocean]

What about it makes it super important

Ig thats the crux of the plot

[slender haven]

I mean it has a lot of secrets down there

Varka has a personal connection to the First Angel through Boreas for one thing

But we will find out in due time

[ashen ocean]

Ig her remains or herself are still underneath all the ice

Also
Have you read the plunging set lore ?

[slender haven]

The Nod-Krai one? Yeah

[slender haven]

Something like that

[ashen ocean]

Can you summarise it ?

[slender haven]

Not really but there is a faction called "The Hunt" that apparently worships the Abyss there
It's probably being led by Rerir going off the name

Also the og cryo archon was male and had fae as his familiars

And the faction ruling Nod Krai probably got destroyed in a battle against the Abyss which let Dottore take over

And there's some spirit that is apparently going to be revived and start fighting again soon or something

[ashen ocean]

Hm

[ashen ocean]

Hope its rerir

Rerir the moon hunter theory from 5.0 being revived

[ashen ocean]

Likely some dragon

Could be your favorite cryo sovereign as well

[slender haven]

No it seems like it could be some fae

[slender haven]

Yeah hopefully
Though it could be more like how Vedrfolnir founded the Abyss Order by just existing
Maybe The Hunt just found Rerir and started worshiping him or something

[ashen ocean]

I am assuming dragons were the first gelstat

As ashikai says

She believes the Primordial Sea is the hydro dragon’s remains

And Neuvillette is the condensed portion of it

[ashen ocean]

Ngl rerir sounds more proactive

[slender haven]

No the Sea existed beforehand

[ashen ocean]

Hand ?

The sea existed before PO

[slender haven]

Beforehand

[ashen ocean]

No like
Same thing as vegetation and apep

[slender haven]

Yes so it can't be the Sovereign"s corpse

[slender haven]

Yeah possibly

[ashen ocean]

It could be the shed parts of the sovereign

Sovereigns forced to shed and more of themselves to define

[slender haven]

No the Sovereign was just the heart of the Sea

[ashen ocean]

Until we get a proper vishap and Neuvillette

Somewhat explains the impure vishaps

They have to shed more of themselves and accumulate either one element

To qualify for sovereign

[ashen ocean]

Heart being the most important organ of the body

And central to pumping fluids across the corpus

Anyways
This is just shooting blabks

Blanks

[ashen ocean]

What i hate is we didnt get any other sinner crumbs , other than Gold in 1.0

We needed some sinner action as early as in liyue and inazuma

[slender haven]

They can shapeshift they don't need to shed anything

[slender haven]

So he was just a part of the Sea not all of it

[ashen ocean]

No
Shedding is necessary to adjust to the PO’s rules

Elements didnt exist before he came and all dragons were heterogeneous

[ashen ocean]

Could have been a “manifestation” of the sea itself, and the dragon the largest voice from it

She used this to explain the existence of adepti

Significantly weaker consciousness that gained some elemental power and came to be

[slender haven]

No that's just something Ashikai made up

[slender haven]

The authorities existed before they were just very different

[ashen ocean]

Yes

[slender haven]

My guess is that Adepti are just "modern" dragons made with the modern elements

[ashen ocean]

Yes

[slender haven]

So they're different from the dragons

[slender haven]

Yes like how Nahida is the heart of Irminsul

[slender haven]

Yeah that would have been cool

[ashen ocean]

Wait she is ?

Isnt she just made of irminsul

[slender haven]

Well Rukkhadevata was

So I presume Nahida is too

[ashen ocean]

Nahida was made from a twig

From the tree

[slender haven]

Yes but she's the same as Rukkhadevata
Technically the same person

Or a clone

[ashen ocean]

My guess was

[slender haven]

Also Egeria was made to replace the og Hydro Sovereign so the Sovereign was just the heart of the Sea

[ashen ocean]

That branch is the save file for rukhadevata at a very very early date

[ashen ocean]

Or the necessity of a heart only came to be after the wat

So egeria made to be the first

[slender haven]

No

They literally say it was made to replace the sovereign

[ashen ocean]

Have you read my leyline clone theory

[slender haven]

The Sea existed before

[slender haven]

No

[ashen ocean]

I posted earlier today

[ashen ocean]

Fair wnough

[slender haven]

Where

[ashen ocean]

Ill condense it for you

Remember how we see Guthred in the NK

[slender haven]

Is it saying that the people revived by the Ode are just clones

[ashen ocean]

No

The crux is : leylines record actions of you, but not you yourself
Spirits are converted to elemental energy and reprocessed

So you could have a guthred with capitano

And a guthred, created by stories kf guthred, in the NK

Same with dottore

He can create segments by accessing records of dottore in the irminsul

[slender haven]

I just think Dottore made the segments out of his own memories

[ashen ocean]

And “resurrecting” them / creating them with elemental energy and memories taken from leylines

[slender haven]

Only the Hexenzirkel actively explores Irminsul

[ashen ocean]

So dottore effectively used Irminsul as a folder for numerous save files

Of himself

Nahida found out about his clones immediately because of this

[slender haven]

I think he just got them from his own memories
Only divine beings can actively mess with the leylines

[slender haven]

No she found out because he told her

She was confused when she saw him

[ashen ocean]

She was also able to verify their expiry
But yeah the element of surprise

[ashen ocean]

I mean, top 3 harbingers are as divine as a human could possibly get

Capitano had a leyline proxy device

[slender haven]

Because Dottore said she could read his mind

[ashen ocean]

Dottore is set to burn irminsul at some point

[slender haven]

That was made from azosite and can contain souls it can't manipulate Irminsul

I just think he made the segments from his own memories

[ashen ocean]

It can mimic leylines of irminsul

[slender haven]

By containing info and souls

[ashen ocean]

Which is what leylines are doing

[slender haven]

Yeah but you're saying Dottore actively took it from Irminsul and not just some proxy

[ashen ocean]

But given how memories in genshin especially for individuals is something very integral and powerful
He would be losing more than gaining like aranara

[slender haven]

Well he was some kind of cyborg so maybe he just kept hard drives containing versions of himself or something

[ashen ocean]

Yeah
He “copies” his memories from irminsul for cloning
Like how Rukha was made nahida from a “branch” of irminsul
Dottore routinely prunes a tree in nod krai or sneznaya for this ig

[slender haven]

Or he just used his robot brain

[ashen ocean]

Would steal away the thunder from alain and sandrone

[ashen ocean]

A device to mimic the sentinel knight’s heart ? That works too

[slender haven]

No Cap's heart is far more powerful
Dottore is just a robot so he can info on hard drives

[ashen ocean]

Or functions similarly

[slender haven]

Idk, it doesn't really matter if he got it from Irminsul or his memories

You can believe he got it from Irminsul if you want

I just disagree

We'll find out soon enough

[ashen ocean]

I believe so because of how significant memories are in genshin

Taking it from himself would fraction his power

While doing it with irminsul has the power sourced from elsewhere

Think of it like stealing um

Toiler paper from your workplace or college

Horrible example

Bur idk how rlse to say

[slender haven]

Well he didn't do it to be more powerful
He just did it so he can have more "observations"

I guess we know Sumeru scholars try to see visions of Irminsul like with Hapaysia I think her name was
Dottore could have done something similar and took weed to see the God tree

[ashen ocean]

He can make a gelstat of himself

[slender haven]

Or he could just give them giant laser canons that would make them strong

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/reverse-flash-arrow-legends-gif-8231020

This is how i see dottore

[slender haven]

I mean that's what Mangatorre had

[slender haven]

Except all of them are now dead except one

[ashen ocean]

Yeah but only by cursing dottore or deleting him entirely off of the irminsul

[slender haven]

No I think they just cursed him normally
Well I have a theory that maybe when they died all of their minds are gonna enter Dottore and overwhelm his brain so he can't do anything

I think Dottore just blew up their bodies not erased them from Irminsul

[frigid lily]

Should I eat a burger

[slender haven]

Yes

[frigid lily]

Hmm I'm thinking which one though

[slender haven]

Can't go wrong with a cheeseburger

[frigid lily]

Ehh idk

I'll see

God why is doordash so expensive

I make $9 an hour I'm dying over here

Ok actual lore talk though

What do you guys think about the Agniss and Egill guys from the Chasm
I think that's their name idk

[slender haven]

Idk who those are

[frigid lily]

They are the two abyss lectors you find under the upside down city after you uncover the abyssal mist thing
They are mentioned in those purple messages you find throughout the Chasm

[slender haven]

Ah ok

I guess they just work for the Abyss Order then. I doubt they're anyone too important.

[frigid lily]

Well yeah but I'd still like to kind of discuss them
Because they also seem related to the previous civilization in the Chasm

In one of the Chasm's side quest there's a part where you're supposed to ring a bell or something like that

And in one of the many purple messages, there's one that says "I call the living"
This passage is a reference to a german poem that has to do with making bells or whatever
Its like a poem relating the making of a bell to life and death

I'm trying to find the poem in the wiki but I'm having trouble hold on

Ah found it

[slender haven]

Interesting
Maybe the messages were just written by the lectors though

[frigid lily]

I'm not sure if they were

But its interesting the messages mention stuff about "celestials go home" or whatever

So they seem pretty ancient

[slender haven]

Reminds me of that one Monty Python bit

Now I'm imagining an angel correcting someone's grammar

[ashen ocean]

are they khaenrians or khaenrian names ?

[frigid lily]

It is based on that

[frigid lily]

Idk really

[slender haven]

Yeah that does make sense

[ashen ocean]

A curious reference
Is it somehow related to the Rubicon beyond “romans”?

[frigid lily]

Wdym

[ashen ocean]

Alice has referenced the Rubicon in the game, supposedly

[frigid lily]

Whats a rubicon

[ashen ocean]

Rubicon was a river during the time of the roman republic

[frigid lily]

Oh ok

[ashen ocean]

Caesar had a famous saying with it, beyond the rubicon , meaning point of no return

This is all i know about it

[frigid lily]

Traveler also apparently has gone to earth or something

[ashen ocean]

? When was this alluded to

Also
I had somewhat of a doubt regarding the actual powers of the descenders outside of teyvat

The memokeeper records stories of worlds doomed to end soon

Which is odd since who holds up this fate ?

[frigid lily]

Well not earth specifically but in Mavuika's E skill description Traveler mentions how in other worlds people need driver licences and plates to be able to drive on motorcycles

[ashen ocean]

And while HP ‘ended’ the Light Realm, the world continued on as Teyvat, the physical realm

[ashen ocean]

Ahhh

[ashen ocean]

So are descenders capable of altering fate at the universal level as well ?

[frigid lily]

Well we already know Teyvta is going to be alright because Traveler is going to save everything

[ashen ocean]

I doubt it actually

[frigid lily]

No it will happen

[ashen ocean]

No like

[frigid lily]

Traveler will ascend and be the big hero of everything

And everything is going to be okay

[ashen ocean]

Narzzizzenkreuz prophecy could come true for all of teyvat

[frigid lily]

And we will get our sibling back

[ashen ocean]

Me thinks teyvat will be destroyed

But the teyvat traveller has experienced to the fullest, in their memories, will continue as it is

[frigid lily]

Me thinks you're daydreaming and delusional

No way Hoyoverse would actually do that

[ashen ocean]

I think that is what the Hexenzirkil is looking forward to and setting up with their yearly quests

[ashen ocean]

Would be ballsy if they did

And it is a neat way to close the teyvat chapter

[frigid lily]

Yeah which is why they won't do it

[ashen ocean]

Havent they done similar resets for their Honkai games

[frigid lily]

Idk

[ashen ocean]

They could use this as an excuse to stop adding content to teyvat too

And save money

[ashen ocean]

So traveller has been to earth or elsewhere (honkai?) before, and explored a bit

Also, what is hoyo planning with celestia anyway

When they reference genshin they never bring in teyvat

Only celestia

[frigid lily]

They don't know what they're doing

Easiest answer

PO is probably going to turn out to be a misunderstood twink and everyone will forgive it

Shades are all going to be simping for the Traveler

And uhh

Yeah

[ashen ocean]

Would genuinely kill the game for me

[frigid lily]

Then you better quit now lololo

[ashen ocean]

But i hope it is like they did with Fujin

[frigid lily]

How so

[ashen ocean]

less or no fanservice and simping, more like a quest exclusive companion / guide

[ashen ocean]

The sinners are heroic idealists who fucked up and are misunderstood 😭

The descender wars were just a petty disagreement that escalated because of the higher one, beyond the stars forcing PO to fight Nibelung

[frigid lily]

I just want more Khraun-Arya lore
I wanna know more about the "pure bred" Khaenri'ahns and how Hoyoverse is gonna get away with making racism lore without adding any actual black people in game

[frigid lily]

PO actually wanted to coexist with Nibelung and the dragons but it accidentally got possesed by the Abyss and turned against them

So they're not the bad guy at all its just the abyss

[ashen ocean]

And the abyss just wanted to play with them both and be friends but understood and saw things differently

the melusines and elynas showed this to be true

brilliant writing

[frigid lily]

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-12869046600151364058

[ashen ocean]

i mean.... Dragon's like Ubah Kan likely had a human evolution project planned

[frigid lily]

Thats not what I mean
I want racism lore

[ashen ocean]

and dragons constantly see themselves higher than humans

[frigid lily]

Like actual racism lore

[ashen ocean]

pure khaenrians were dragon descendants

[frigid lily]

Not dragons and humans

No they were most likely the descendant of the first angel and the outlander

[ashen ocean]

closest to that we have is maybe
Remuria and Loch folk
Eremites and Forest Dwellers
Mondsdadt and its slaver past
Raiden going isolationist

[ashen ocean]

Khaenrians were Valyrians

of Genshin

same cataclysm for them both too, in hindsight

[frigid lily]

What is that

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/game-of-thrones-dragon-im-here-im-home-gif-21391492

[frigid lily]

What is that

[ashen ocean]

Game of Thrones

Valyria used to be the home to the world's last and supremo empire of dragon riders

and a place of great magic

their civilisation collapses in a ritual gone wrong

[frigid lily]

Oh ok

I've never watched game of thrones

[ashen ocean]

It is kinda camp now
but its popular enough to get one ongoing prequel and a second one later this year

[frigid lily]

I see

I'll watch it when I have time (I actually won't)

Speaking of Dragon lore

There are Dragon fossils in the Chasm

And I always wondered about them

I mean, they're likely not important but even so

[ashen ocean]

They are

they are baked between, below and above the unfiied civilisation structures there

[frigid lily]

The archeologist from Sumeru we find says that the fossils are like, very preserved or something

And that whatever preserved them was sort of like, hit in an instant?

Which I assume is referring to the nail possibly

But there's also some hints to the Chasm being like, underwater or something like it

[ashen ocean]

arent there fossils in Inazuma as well ?

or were they revealed to be whale remains

[ashen ocean]

Underwater ? How ?

[frigid lily]

They were whale remains

[frigid lily]

Maybe not underwater, but more so there are hints to it having been flooded at some point

Back in 2.5 I theorized that it was caused by the nail, just like how Dragonspine also had its weather change

[ashen ocean]

With the waterfalls, the caverns and rhe cave itself shaped like an underwater waterfall ?

[frigid lily]

That yes, but the guy with the fossils also said that the fossils had to have been underwater or something like it

As in flooded

[ashen ocean]

Me thinks it is whatever put down this fragment of unified civilisation down there

[frigid lily]

Probably

[ashen ocean]

To preserve dragon remains and bury the truth before it leaks and spreads among humans

Same reason for enka imo

Enka was rigbt above or below a hotbed of vishaps

[ashen ocean]

Anothee thing i remember is

So many abyss mages being present beside the chasm nail

[frigid lily]

That too

[ashen ocean]

It felt similar to Nabu Malikata taking Deshret to where the Nail was buried, and using it to bestow forbidden knowledge to him and subsequently raising the nail and changing the geography of sumeru for a second time

[frigid lily]

Also, this is a dumb question, but Abyss Lectors were around even before Khaenri'ah right?

[ashen ocean]

Allegedly yes
This is not a dumb question too

Abyss study was always present

Ams you need not be linked to the abyss order or even abyss itself

For becoming a lector, or a baptist

Jakob Ingold shows us a normal fontainian becoming one

[ashen ocean]

https://www.kkinstagram.com/reel/DG__gpSvyMr/?igsh=ZmwxbHhta2g2OGpo

I wonder if it has something to do with the fragment we find in thr first natlan map

[ashen ocean]

https://x.com/ngoctrongly/status/1898917948460540274?s=46

ni (@ngoctrongly) on X

this should be confirmation that the ancient flood we've seen referenced re: inazuma, the chasm, fontaine, etc. was a direct cause of the eternal moon's death

X · Mar 10, 2025, 2:04 AM

@frigid lily this thread is for you

Omg

You mentioned underwater chasm yesterday

And today hoyo drops it

What if it was submerged by rising tides

This thread is for you

[tawdry blade]

There was a theory of Teyvat used to be flooded with water so it make sense

There are seashell on some stone I think

Also the flood is the one that zhongli talking about?

[ashen ocean]

Supposedly

It could be a different flood for all we know

But i never considered that moons affecting tides and sea levels is a thing that is in effect in Teyvat too

Rare day twitter lorists appear on my tl

https://fixupx.com/phatbeatz_/status/1898932844107649067?s=46

https://fixupx.com/beelzebuldaily/status/1898922455617409389?s=46

[hasty narwhal]

omg are we actually going to get Inazuma content

[plain bison]

[river jackal]

capitano's sword also called antumbra

[ashen ocean]

It is all adding up omg

[river jackal]

where's the ppl who said ei is irrelevant

we really don't know wtf the raiden sisters are

tbh

i hope they can cook

just random elemental beings born from a lightning bolt...yeah sure..

[ashen ocean]

Likely borne from the remains of the electro sovereign or its dominion

[river jackal]

Yea i would

just like to get some more info like we did on furina and nahida

[ashen ocean]

Inazuma gave us the most celestia lore

And sacrificed dragon lore for it

[river jackal]

There's a bunch of unknowns in Inazuma that aren't really there for other nations tbh, idk if you can say with confidence the whereabouts of the electro sov either

[river jackal]

Well the story's premise itself is a reference to teyvat as a whole

ignoring the execution

[ashen ocean]

I would say electro sovereign makes up the clouds and lightning of the world

[ashen ocean]

You can say that for every nations story

[river jackal]

Well neuvillette doens't exactly make up the water

[river jackal]

Yes that's true and pretty evident

[ashen ocean]

Inazuma was badly handled because we are uncertain about “Eterntiy” even now

[river jackal]

That's a totally different thing yea its more with writing and stuff not really the lore of it

no need to discuss that ig

[river jackal]

he can just control it

And rain still happens naturally obviously

[ashen ocean]

The first sovereign of thr primordial sea likely did

[river jackal]

uh

i haven't really heard of that anywhere ig

[ashen ocean]

Fontaine glider lore ?

[tawdry blade]

Too many moon

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/moon-knight-gif-12777133706523855407

[tawdry blade]

NodKrai worship the welkin lady

[ashen ocean]

ig

may as well shoot in that directon

[tawdry blade]

Also it look like NodKrai would be strike by a divine nail? The web event small picture look like a divine nail hitting something

[ashen ocean]

I do not think so

[ashen ocean]

You must be thinking of the Golden City/ Hyperborea nail

it was mentioned in the skirk set

https://fixupx.com/hxg_diluc/status/1899042866930061783?s=46

[tawdry blade]

Mondstadt in Germany mean Moon City

I think we are overthinking about moon

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-rivals-moon-knight-marc-specter-cresent-moon-cape-full-moon-gif-4102617070509549025

[tawdry blade]

But I'm excited to see what role the moon will play in Nod Krai

[ashen ocean]

we are living in his world fosho

[ashen ocean]

some cryo's have some relation to teh moon

From Ganyu to Layla

[tawdry blade]

Because moon is like a mirror

[ashen ocean]

Nahida's signature flower only blooms in the moon light

[tawdry blade]

We only see the moon because the sunlight hit it

[tawdry blade]

I don't think it is anything special, there are flower that only bloom in certain season or daylight so it isn't a surprise

[hasty narwhal]

It's all moons

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/gru-moon-gif-10973131198585528214

[ashen ocean]

https://fixupx.com/yeuvrays/status/1898984497510531206?s=46

[river jackal]

"A ritual prayer, recited on the rising of the first new moon, to ask for the moon's blessing in the form of wealth and good fortune. For your purposes, the new moon you shall pray to is the first-ever new moon in Teyvat, since it's the first one you've seen here."

so welkin moon can mean celestial moon?

and the og 3 moons are draconic, obviously

[tawdry blade]

I don't know how this really change anything

People acting like Scaramoche is still there or signora

[ashen ocean]

..... but they had played their parts

[tawdry blade]

Signora make sense but Scaramoche

He should not be remember at all,even in the web event

[tawdry blade]

Also her charge attack form a moon symbol ,I almost forgot such detail

Mavuika charge form the sun so it is definitely not a coincidence

[slender haven]

And Capitano's sword is called "Antumbra" which is a type of eclipse

[frigid lily]

The two worst archons matching each other aww ❤️

(It hurt typing this, I love Ei I just hate Mavuika)

[slender haven]

And Capitano is their fusion since he's the eclipse
So their dogshit cancels out and created peak

[tawdry blade]

Capitano stole the antumbra from the eclipse

[slender haven]

He stole it from Irmin when he wasn't looking

[tawdry blade]

I feel like the "?" Would be talking about NodKrai rather than the harbinger

[frigid lily]

I do top

Too

Especially because like

[tawdry blade]

Like the hero who stay and helped NodKrai during the invasion

[frigid lily]

We still don't know what is up with the 10th harbringer

[ashen ocean]

scaramouche would be remembered by the higher forces on teyvat

[slender haven]

They're hyping up a guy whose weaker than a banker

[ashen ocean]

i mentioned it a month or two ago\

while mavuika charged attack is the sun

[ashen ocean]

stronger than childe

[slender haven]

And she has a moon in her domain iirc

[tawdry blade]

Yeah

[slender haven]

Childe grows stronger every day
He's probably overcome some of the rankings by now

[ashen ocean]

my theory is
they were erased by irminsul long before us

[ashen ocean]

hes defo stronger than Wanderer imo

[slender haven]

Wanderer was able to beat Shoki No Kami first form on his own so idk

[tawdry blade]

Weaker version I think

[ashen ocean]

shoki no kami was an incomplete god

[slender haven]

It looked less red in the new event

[frigid lily]

Ehhh I don't think they'd repeat that plotline
My theory is that it was just Crucabena
I think it makes the most sense tbh

[ashen ocean]

Childe was able to stall the whale

[slender haven]

He had the power of the gnosis

[slender haven]

Fair

[tawdry blade]

That is because she is no longer "evil"

[ashen ocean]

doesnt matter, still incomplete
he wasnt out of the workshop and iirc scara was still integrating

[slender haven]

"no longer"

[tawdry blade]

The 10th rank is Dottore clone

Who will be playable instead of the real one

[slender haven]

The only thing he still needed at that point was the corrupted divine knowledge which would have made him crazy

[ashen ocean]

they could repeat it
say that harbinger knew our sibling or
they were sacrificed by dottore for his insane experiemtns

[frigid lily]

Nah thats dumb sorry

[ashen ocean]

hmm fair ig
full god it is

Childe gets put down by Alain and Sandrone imo
they are smarter and they have tussled with Baptists and their like before

[slender haven]

Yeah
Though he didn't beat his second phase form which is presumably the one that killed Nahida and Traveler 69 times or something

[frigid lily]

Are we really doing power scaling now

[slender haven]

So idk
It doesn't really matter

[river jackal]

i don't agree at all and I don't get the point either but childe has plot armor

For now

[tawdry blade]

Bro is plot

[slender haven]

My BS theory is that it's the Tsaritsa

[tawdry blade]

His armor is ass,no wonder his ass is always get beaten up

[ashen ocean]

169 or 170 or so
but yeah
the Ballaedeer is only really strong coz of the many enhancements dottore gave him

[river jackal]

Well true i guess

[slender haven]

Vegeta plot armor
Gets your ass beat yet constantly still be considered really strong

[frigid lily]

Anyways, Capitano's sword being named after an eclipse is interesting and we should talk about that instead

[ashen ocean]

hes in his training arc and needs to meet his seelie grandmother for the next powerup

[ashen ocean]

yes

[frigid lily]

Because it means talking about Natlan and the Night Kingdom and the Divine Nail and, surprisingly, for the first time I will say, the Dragons

[slender haven]

Mhm

[slender haven]

You're finally interested in dragon lore??? Crazy

[frigid lily]

I guess now that we know that the moons were created by the Dragons it could explain his scales or something
I don't know

[ashen ocean]

dragons - > MOONS - > Seelies

[frigid lily]

Don't get used to it
Its just because Dragon lore means Seelie lore also

[slender haven]

My idea was that the eclipse connection could lead into like, he gets incarnated by the Abyss like how Xiuhcoatl was but Capitano is still in control

[slender haven]

Fair

[river jackal]

dreading that day tbh

[slender haven]

No matter how Capitano returns I will welcome him with open arms

[ashen ocean]

Xiuhcoatl ressurection

COPEtano

[frigid lily]

Honestly I'm still with my crack theory that we are gonna go back to the past and redo the events of the Natlan quest and make it so he doesn't sacrifice himself

[ashen ocean]

my crack theory is we clone capitano with the records of his actions (Thrain) and make him playable

but the issue is that
has any khaenrian been reincarnated ./ cloned like that ?

[slender haven]

My second, more plausible theory is that we're going to somehow forge him an ancient name and somehow resurrect him through the Ode of Resurrection

[slender haven]

No

[river jackal]

why'd he want that tho

sounds not so in character

[slender haven]

His work isn't finished

[frigid lily]

Oh boy here we go

[slender haven]

Celestia is still in control

At what point in his final speech did he say "I am so tired and I just want to rest for eternity"

[frigid lily]

I'd prefer my theory because it'd mean he'd remain the same
No memory loss, or clone, or anything like it

[ashen ocean]

capitano can stay in hell with his dude bros
he just needs to loose his sword
Traveller please pry that beauty from the stinky boss man's finger tips

[frigid lily]

Keep yourself safe

[river jackal]

He said death is the outcome he's been looking for

[slender haven]

I want that too
So that's why I think I think the Ode is going to come into play
I also hope he comes back at his prime

[river jackal]

but honestly i don't wanna argue because his character just frutsuates me

[ashen ocean]

Traveller uses his sword to enter sneznaya and show he has the captain's zeal of apporval

[slender haven]

But he isn't dead

[river jackal]

i just don't see any way to bring him back while it being a good story

but that's alright

I know he's coming back

[frigid lily]

See, I'm kind with you that, when talking about Capitano's resurrection we need to talk about why he would want to come back
I know he's going to get revived or whatever
But I will admit that his character motivations when talking about him as a Fatui is a bit odd
Until we find out how he joined the Fatui in the first place I do believe it would be odd for him to be revived and want to go back with them
That's the way I see it

[river jackal]

Yea

[frigid lily]

I mean, his motivations for joining the Fatui make sense

[river jackal]

Something needs to happen in between

[ashen ocean]

also
i was taking in the other server today
a lorist predicts Phanes to be a woman

[river jackal]

isn't phanes just

idk, phanes

[frigid lily]

Phanes is androgynous

[river jackal]

I'm not sure if artifact leaks are allowed here

[frigid lily]

My prediction is that Phanes is Yakub, because its even funnier

[frigid lily]

They are

[ashen ocean]

I used to assume Phanes to be a him because of the Usurper King moniker

[river jackal]

well then phanes is satan

[ashen ocean]

and the gnosticsm obsession with halves across sexes

but we will see soon]

[frigid lily]

Phanes is based on the Greek God Phanes who was Androgynous, so no gender as far as I am aware

And before sun and moon states that to be the case also

[ashen ocean]

ironically a perfect fit
Phanes was a dragon whose wings were too small and a head too big and was ostracized from teh planet because of it

[frigid lily]

And then he created white people

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-17729711691959966457

[ashen ocean]

his evilest creation, and unleashed them across the planet

[river jackal]

we know they have seven heads with seven crowns

[ashen ocean]

dont forget the part where moses / zhongli threw dynamite on the eremites

[ashen ocean]

huh
how ?

[frigid lily]

Ok but I'm unironically kind of serious with my Yakub Phanes theory
In the newest Skirk artifact set there was a reference to the tower of Babel, which as we know was the tower thing where uhh languages came from or whatever

This is so fucking funny man

I love looking up shit like this

What do you mean this guy created white people out of spite

[slender haven]

No way Hoyoverse is going to make a non-binary character
They're going to be a big woman with bouncy jiggling breasts and it's going to turn out they're a quirky silly waifu who did nothing wrong oh and also Nibelung ate babies or whatever

[ashen ocean]

Hoyoverse has teased Non Binary before

[frigid lily]

I mean yeah obviously they won't make a non-binary character in appearance
Phanes will probably still look like a woman but the game will still tell you they're androgynous or whatever

[ashen ocean]

Gorou/ Ms. Hina

Lyney/ Lynette

etc

[slender haven]

You can't go much more down that Natlan already was

[ashen ocean]

They will find a way to get it inside the game

[slender haven]

Gorou doesn't even know he's Ms Hina

[ashen ocean]

Malcolm X died because of this btw

[slender haven]

And then someone will just them a her in a quest later down the line and everyone will just accept it

[ashen ocean]

am being fr , no jk
He got killed because of this

[slender haven]

That would make sense because Hoyoverse is Celestia and they hate black people

[tawdry blade]

About NodKrai people special power,could it be cryo but enhanced version and probably can freeze better than the original version,better reaction scaling,etc

[ashen ocean]

remember he made arabs and asians before he made white people

and white people were raised to be a cruel, barbaric, evil people

[river jackal]

yea you can

[ashen ocean]

who turned on the black and arabs who pitied them and showed sympathy and enslaved them all

[slender haven]

And Nibelung became black after he was corrupted by the Abyss
It's all coming together

[slender haven]

It's just going to be Nightsoul 2

[frigid lily]

Are we sure Celestia hates black people
I'm starting to think that it's Khaenri'ah
Which would mean, that Celestia banished them for being racist, but Celestia is being stated as being evil
So yeah Hoyoverse is still racist

[tawdry blade]

That what I mean, basically if you use cryo character within NodKrai, your cryo power is stronger

[ashen ocean]

if they can have freeze aura stick to bosses
that is powercreep

[slender haven]

Have Mavuika take the Traveler's descender status and single handedly overthrow Celestia
My uncle is best friends with Da Wei and that's what he told me

[tawdry blade]

Hoyo didn't even give such ability to the Chinese god,doubt it

[ashen ocean]

Pure blood khaenrians getting immortality
Half bloods get turned to monsters

[slender haven]

Not just cryo
There are going to be characters other than cryo in Nod-Krai after all

[slender haven]

I mean Kaeya was black and he was a part of an esteemed noble clan

[ashen ocean]

Freeze aura, not literally freeze the bosses in position
just an aura would be enough

[frigid lily]

Calling Kaeya "black" is overdoing it but fair

[tawdry blade]

Isn't that just ganyu pro max

[ashen ocean]

Ororon is an african yoruba god of the sky and hes whiter than french people in this game

[tawdry blade]

Freeze aura is too overpower especially for pyro team

[slender haven]

There are 0 actual playable black people in this game they're all just tan let me do the joke

[ashen ocean]

no
ganyu has icd issues on her burst

and freeze aura can be sustained by hydro or cryo

[frigid lily]

Fair

[ashen ocean]

not it would suck for Mavuika Diluc Gaming as all of their attacks are blunt

[slender haven]

I saw someone say Chasca was supposed to be the colors of the American flag and I was going to ask where was the white
Then I remembered her skin

[ashen ocean]

shatter over freeze is prioritsed

[frigid lily]

They should add dendro + cryo reaction in Nod Krai

[slender haven]

I like to think it'd just be burning but cryo flavored

[ashen ocean]

ngl
An american stand in character in the garb of native americansm, esp with a flying rifle is super fucked up

[frigid lily]

Nah its peak

[slender haven]

I'd say they're more wild West cowboy aesthetic with some Native culture sprinkled in but yes you're right regardless

[ashen ocean]

it would ruin burn melt comps

[frigid lily]

Oh ok

Well I don't care about meta so

[river jackal]

Its ok burnmelt is far far from meta

[ashen ocean]

and also fudge up the order
you go from burn - > rev melt -> forward melt

[river jackal]

i guess mav kinich citlali bennett is a "burnmelt" team

but that's reaching

[ashen ocean]

its great for mualani esp with emilie

[ashen ocean]

that is the theoritical highest kinich dps team

[river jackal]

its just a bit funny

chasca and kinich's best teams are mav carry teams but with xilonen replaced by the carries, so i prefer the non citlali teams for these characters

They're both getting iansan so

will be great for team variety

[ashen ocean]

iansan replaces xilonen
but with emilie - Kinich - Iansan -Mavuika is a legit team

for multi wave

[ashen ocean]

yeah

[river jackal]

yea iansan is goated

[ashen ocean]

Iansan is pretty healthy for the game

idk about varesa tho

the fucking cow is stronger than everyone in the game except Mavuika

[river jackal]

varesa is a good dps but yea, sorry clorinde

[frigid lily]

Ok so
Instead of cryo + dendro
They should make superconduct meta for non physical teams

[river jackal]

i mean i think we left that on the table when fontainian duelist was better than the electro archon

[ashen ocean]

they are likely planning it

[frigid lily]

that way I can specificallu pair Vareza up with Ganyu

[ashen ocean]

i hype up superconduct on KQM

Cryo region would be doodoo if it cannot make superconduct work

[river jackal]

she's not better than arle or neuvillette

[ashen ocean]

she actually is

or at least dps calcs wise

[river jackal]

well they all assume c6 iansan

who is gonna have a c6 iansan and a c0 varesa

[ashen ocean]

neuvillette is a low bar to modern dps

[slender haven]

For what purpose? 🤨

[frigid lily]

Because they both have horns

[river jackal]

But yea she's just another ~100k dps character, just has massive aoe

[ashen ocean]

varesa's best team is with iansan mavuika chevreuse

[river jackal]

i guess you could argue she's the 2nd best dps but very very low team flexibility and she takes mav away

[slender haven]

Sure

[frigid lily]

That way I can make a full team of girls with horns
Varesa, Ganyu, Yanfei and uh
Well since its an overworld team I guess Chasca as the last spot?
It doesn't have to be meta I just want to play with my favorite characters

[ashen ocean]

nah shes flexible af

[river jackal]

okay if the point of comparison is clorinde then yea

[ashen ocean]

she works in most electro teams

[ashen ocean]

yehs

[river jackal]

she also seems more fun to use and also no time restrictions and stuff

can swap out

[ashen ocean]

yeah
and shes the first character with a secondary burst iirc

[slender haven]

Ok

[river jackal]

its a bit unfortunate that her full burst creates a whole ring but she never wants to use it

In ideal rotations

[river jackal]

Well raiden can have horns

but only the boss

and not real

[ashen ocean]

doesnt nilou have horns

[ashen ocean]

you can add itto in the fourth slot\

[frigid lily]

Oh shit you're right

[frigid lily]

I don't have him and don't want him

Also ok actual lore talk

We were talking about the moons

If the Dragons created the moons, did they create the sun also?

[ashen ocean]

yes

Xiuhcoatl created the sun

btw

he created the first light

[ashen ocean]

so i had a stupid lightbulb moment

if dragons created the moons
and xiuhcoatl, whose land we are in right now created the sun
we eventually have to start getting moon lore in the remainder of natlan itself

[frigid lily]

And more than that, pretty much all the Archons so far have moon themeing except for Mavuika
And Furina also but Furina doesn't really have any space related themeing to her I guess

Mondstadt is Moon City
Liyue is also moon something
Inazuma has Ei and Makoto and we already mentioned above their supposed connections to the moon
Then there's Sumeru which idk its reaching but I guess Nahida refers herself as the moon idk

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that the sun is sus

Fuck moon sister lore
What the hell is the sun

[ashen ocean]

Glazed Jade/ Jade moon something

[frigid lily]

Yes that

[ashen ocean]

Nahida- Moon grass- her signature flowers only bloom in moonlight

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-gif-23900521

[ashen ocean]

so another revelation from the 5.5 leaks

tonatiuh was meant to be an anchor for the frostmoon / remaining moon up on the sky

ig with todays teaser

Och Kan was planning to save humanity with creating/ launching the welkin moon

[frigid lily]

Oh ok

[ashen ocean]

do you know of any relation

the moons had with the angels >

[frigid lily]

Uhh no

[ashen ocean]

?

[frigid lily]

Oh

With the angels?

No

[ashen ocean]

yeah

oh

[frigid lily]

Well ok nvm

I do kind pf

Nabu Malikata was friends with the Moon sisters
And the marriage between the outlander and the first Angel happened in the moon palace
And the moon sisters were there?

Thats about it really

[ashen ocean]

oh this reminds me to tell you

or rather ask you

ignoring the wiki, is there any source confirming the existence of a moon "sister" ?

could the moons have been one entity, or an AI , like Ixtel or Ajaw, embedded within source mechanisms ?

[frigid lily]

That I don't know

I mean, artifact lore states that Nabu Malikata danced with the moon sisters or whatever

[ashen ocean]

a lorist in the KQM lore thread said he couldnt find any proof for the existence of a moon sister

but tried to show that the moons were 3 entities controlled by one agent

also, did the Ruu quest have some logic like (3+1) or somethihng ?
try 3 times, succeed on the fourth ?

[ashen ocean]

another bit i discovered today, the theme of the nursery of nightmares is called Eclipsed Star

[frigid lily]

Oh ok

I don't know what to make of that sorry lol

[frigid lily]

It had like the rule of three

[frigid lily]

It was always mentioned in books and what not

[ashen ocean]

oh wait
there is a second track
Onset of Omens

[ashen ocean]

which ones ?

[ashen ocean]

which was actually the rule of the fourth ?

[frigid lily]

https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Aria, Sonnet and Canon

[ashen ocean]

or something

[frigid lily]

I don't remember, I just remember the rule of three

[river jackal]

https://x.com/hxg_diluc/status/1899147283134074982

🍁(Waiting for Phainon) (@hxg_diluc) on X

[Genshin]
Rhythm of Nod-Krai bgm, Song of the Welkin Moon, is actually appeared in four years ago.

First Video credit to YouTube MMOJACKX57

X · Mar 10, 2025, 5:16 PM

[slender haven]

No he was just revered like he was the sun

[slender haven]

Source?

[ashen ocean]

https://fixupx.com/hxg_diluc/status/1899147283134074982

[ashen ocean]

wait
lemme find the source

[tawdry blade]

I mean,it is definitely not literal,like how Chinese Emperor call themselves immortal and shit

[slender haven]

"Emulated the sun"

Not made

It even says there was already a light in the starry skies

[frigid lily]

Ok so it wasn't artifact lore my bad, it was in the description of Tulaytullah's Remembrance

[slender haven]

Random ass weapon lore my greatest enemy

But yeah I see it
So the Moon Sisters were probably like "archangels" or something so normal angels hanging out with them would make sense

[frigid lily]

Shade of Space is currently the Shade we have the least info on
Its 100% the Unknown God and thats probably why they're saving it for the big reveal or whatever
But I really have to wonder what exactly "space" means in this case?
Like, time, death and life make sense
But what about space

[ashen ocean]

Space refers to thr medium i suppose

The canvas, space occupied by teyvat

The stage where other shades and the domains join together

[slender haven]

I think it means space as in the opposite of time
Life and death
Space and time

[ashen ocean]

Space , as the opposite of time ?

Space defines the stage , lets time take root
Time defines the different states / stages of space, that sort?

[wary parrot]

Something that this post made me realize is Columbina being playable or appearing might be closer than we think

If she’s an angel, Angels served the three moon sisters, no?

[ashen ocean]

Angels primarily served the Heavenly Principles

[ashen ocean]

Lemme find any more lore regarding this

[ashen ocean]

The only hurdle to AngleBina is her age would have to be over 7k and angels are on par or stronger than gods at times

[wary parrot]

She’s amongst the highest ranked harbingers, I remember it being said that the top 4 are equal in power to that of the Seven regardless

[wary parrot]

Idk if it was ever confirmed, but Seelies being angels were punished along I think the three moon sisters or for them

[frigid lily]

We don't have 100% confirmation that she's an Angel
I personally don't believe it

[wary parrot]

Also it was made apparent that the Lord of the Night would sooner serve humanity than the rules of the heavenly principles

[wary parrot]

It’s the imagery with the wings that match that of a seraphim, which was one of the highest ranked angels

https://tenor.com/view/columbina-genshin-impact-genshin-impact-impact-genshin-gif-26197482

[frigid lily]

Thats not confirmation of anything
Its just a theory

[wary parrot]

It is, but I think with this it kinda leans towards in favor no? Especially with the “leaks” though I take ones like those with a grain of salt

[frigid lily]

This is canonically what the angels look like

They had horns on their head

[wary parrot]

they were dragon people >:)

[frigid lily]

And crowns made of bones and star fragments, according to the new skirk artifact set

[wary parrot]

WHAT

[frigid lily]

Let me get it

[wary parrot]

Then what would that make Columbina I wonder, why she’s so strong and classed as a high ranked harbinger (unless the ranking is wrong)

[frigid lily]

Ok so its not literal crowns of bones and star fragments but

Still that description does not match columbina

[wary parrot]

The wings might, but that’s the best I got

[frigid lily]

A fairy most likely
They were mentioned in another artifact set too, and they were from Nod Krai

[wary parrot]

I’m curious, when it mentions the “dawn stars royal court” does it mean celestia or something beyond teyvat?

[ashen ocean]

it is confirmed

[wary parrot]

Which story was it confirmed in

[ashen ocean]

lemme look it up

[frigid lily]

Its the golden city

[wary parrot]

I think I remember it vaguely being mentioned in the aranara quest

[wary parrot]

Golden city?

[ashen ocean]

Heart's desire

[frigid lily]

https://homdgcat.wiki/gi/char/15040#_15040

Here's the new artifact set

You can read it

It explains everything there

[ashen ocean]

could it be the same star fragments we see in natlan ,then in Dragonspine ?

[frigid lily]

Probably not
Like I said its metaphorical

Its probably like

Their halos or something idk

[wary parrot]

Is this skirks story?

I only just finished reading the flower piece

[frigid lily]

Not really

The girl mentioned at the beginning who's fighting monsters and following her master is skirk

[wary parrot]

All I can think of is either her or maybe the New Moon mentioned? I’m not sure, unless it’s doing that parallel story instead of literal

[frigid lily]

But thats not what the set is about specifically

[wary parrot]

What if their halos are like the way they’re positioned maybe

Could just be metaphorical but it feels like an odd detail to add

[frigid lily]

Who knows

[ashen ocean]

The new moon is not yet mentioned in natlan

or anywhere in the game , in a quest thus far

[wary parrot]

Oh

Oh my

Random theory seeing as it says traveler and makes me think “you’ll understand at journey end” what if we are the same race

[frigid lily]

Oh you're using the Translated version?

Hold on

Let me just get the proper translation for you

Ok so for some reason I can't link the EN version specifically

But in the homdgcat website you can click to show the english version

[wary parrot]

Oh no

Yeah I can’t read Chinese so I was just translating it

@frigid lily this bit stands out to me a lot

The first angel cast aside her crown?

[frigid lily]

Yeah

[wary parrot]

Think it’s the tsaritsa?

[frigid lily]

No??

That makes no sense tbh

Tsaritsa can't be over 6,000 years old.

[wary parrot]

Wait how old is zhongli again

Damn it’d be funny if she was

[frigid lily]

Zhongli is at least 6,000 years old, but I doubt the Tsaritsa is that old because she's Snezhnaya's second Archon at least

[wary parrot]

It talked about love, she is one who could have no love left for her nation

[wary parrot]

Oh no what if the angel was the first cryo archon….

[frigid lily]

Not possibme

First Cryo Archon is already stated to be a guy

Its in the other artifact set

[wary parrot]

Also there’s been 2 gods before and they were the same age, that being Ei, so it’s not completely out there

[wary parrot]

The one that isn’t out yet?

What if she like

Hear me out

Was still that angel but took over as archon when seeing the first one die

[frigid lily]

Idk I think you're reaching it

[wary parrot]

I always reach it

[frigid lily]

And as I said, the first Archon was a guy

[wary parrot]

I get to laugh at my stupidity or get to be surprised and enjoy the actual story because my own theory completely missed

Also would laugh if any of my theories were actually right

[ashen ocean]

Actually

This is very likely

[wary parrot]

omg you see it

[frigid lily]

Yall are more delusional then me pre 5.3

[wary parrot]

So delulu but I want it to become trululu

[frigid lily]

https://tenor.com/view/blm-gif-25815938

[wary parrot]

Ah yes, steanmes community, my favorite steam website

[frigid lily]

I dislike the Tsaritsa had a lost love theories honestly
They're too generic of a backstory

[wary parrot]

I don’t think it’d be lost lover, I was thinking like sibling but then I thought “damn what if they do go the lost lover route, like no wonder she’d be pissed that Signora died”

[ashen ocean]

Tsaritsa being the angel who turned violent and broke her precepts

The sole goal of angels is to serve humanity

[wary parrot]

Imagine she was more passive until she saw khaenriah and was like “okay bitch, pull up.” Whilst pointing up at Celestia and cursing it out every single day from her balcony

[wary parrot]

Oh man then the khaenriah incident fully setting her off like venti I think said would absolutely line up with this

[frigid lily]

Then she would be dead and cursed

[ashen ocean]

Only if she fell in love

[wary parrot]

Not if she was silent

[frigid lily]

Idk, Tsaritsa Angel is dumn, sorry

[frigid lily]

No, its not just that

[ashen ocean]

Or expend more of her power

[wary parrot]

Nah it is dumb but genshin gave citlali the personality they did so the bar is low

Celestia did nothing when Focalors destroyed the throne, did nothing for Natlan either

[ashen ocean]

I cant see a more convincing reason for herself to use the third descenders remains and enlist Pierro for her 500 year long plan