・genshin-spoilers

[ashen ocean]

They are programmed for two goals

[slender haven]

Archangels essentially

[ashen ocean]

Serve humanity
Serve PO, which is higher priority

[slender haven]

Ronova's design even seems seraphim inspired

[ashen ocean]

The only difference is
Unlike seelies
They have no curse
No true will of their own

No will to be able to truly love, in specific

[slender haven]

No they have a will

[ashen ocean]

They do

But not enough to “love”

The seelies got mass detention because of a romance

[slender haven]

If my theory that Istaroth is "the first Seelie" that married the outlander then no

[ashen ocean]

The shades seem more rigid in their operation

Like PROTO seelies

[slender haven]

Also if any of the shades are playable then of course they can't love anybody

[ashen ocean]

I feel PO practiced with shades first , then seelies, then humans

If thr youtuber my name for now is right, then before all of this, with himself

[slender haven]

More like the head Seelies

[ashen ocean]

Maybe
But seelies dont have the magnum opus like the shades

The divine red

[ashen ocean]

Idts
I feel like if istaroth did that
None of the shades would be and the PO wouldve shut off his shade project

[slender haven]

Yeah because the shades were made directly from the PO too

[slender haven]

Her marrying him was probably the cause of the seelies getting cursed idiot

[ashen ocean]

But the marriage’s outcome had both of them he severely punished

And the bride spending away her days in sorrow

[slender haven]

Yeah because the PO doesn't want their allegiances going elsewhere

[ashen ocean]

Or perma out of action

[slender haven]

Turning wolves into gods too

[ashen ocean]

And istaroth was very much active post the wedding and aided makoto

[ashen ocean]

What

[slender haven]

The first angel is implied to have been the one to turn Andrius into a god

Well not implied

[ashen ocean]

Ah

Yes
The PO program for gifted gods

[slender haven]

Straight up stated to be the first Seelie who sang with him

[ashen ocean]

Does andrius have a demon name

[slender haven]

Andrius is the demon name
Boreas is his normal name

[ashen ocean]

Ahhh

So my theory was right

Outside of remus so far
Every teyvatian “god” has a demon name

While goddess of flowers was mistaken for one

[slender haven]

He had a nice singing voice I guess

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/werewolf-wolf-y2k-gif-7378272715592138345

[slender haven]

Varka design reveal

[ashen ocean]

First of what ? Seelies ?

Also
I think the shades are in regular commune with the archons

[slender haven]

Yeah, it's said the "Wolf King" met the first Seelie in a ruin

[slender haven]

No

[ashen ocean]

Why

[slender haven]

Ronova says she would've gotten in trouble if the PO found out about her dealings with Xbalanque

And Mavuika doesn't act familiar when she sees Ronova

[ashen ocean]

Not dealings
I mean communicate his will

Like a messenger

Or a secret channel

[slender haven]

Only Venti may have interacted with Istaroth

And Makoto with Istaroth too

[ashen ocean]

I think that is how raiden was tasked with slaying orabashi and the latter to offer his neck

Celestia commanded orabashi too

So this is not far fetched

[slender haven]

The Raidens didn't get told anything
Orobashi had to set up a war in order to set up his death

[ashen ocean]

Pyro archons dont live long enough to familiarise with shades

[ashen ocean]

Wait fr ? So raiden thought it was real ?

[slender haven]

Also because they don't communicate with the shades

[slender haven]

Seemingly

[ashen ocean]

One archon whom am sure is in communication with shades is zhongli

His first contract must have been accepting the demon name Morax

From the shade of space

[slender haven]

Why her

[ashen ocean]

She seems to be the most dogmatic of the four

[slender haven]

Wouldn't Morax just be born with his demon name

[ashen ocean]

And her presence is in the chasm
The cubes beside the nail are so similar to her own in the intro

[ashen ocean]

No idts

Zhongli was born before the archon war

And the war of vengeance

[slender haven]

And he's a Teyvat god too idiot

[ashen ocean]

Wait for me dumbo
What am saying is

To be a “god”

You needed a “demon name”

[slender haven]

She doesn't seem like the type to interact with Teyvat willy nilly
We know shades aren't allowed to interact with Teyvat without getting punished

[ashen ocean]

And for that

[ashen ocean]

You need to accept celestia’s contract

To participate in the archon war in some capacity

And enact their will at their bidding

In mondsdadt, it was a bloodbath until decabrian was toppled
Liyue was a blood flood
Inazuma was a blood sauna
Sumeru was a tea party until one of the gods overstepped his limits and the other god was tasked with dealing with the breach
Fontaine had what was likely the strongest archon from the get go so no chances for a war there
Natlan was left to its own
Sneznaya who knows

[ashen ocean]

How else would Mavuika know about PO’s desire to be unnamed

And the will of celestia

[slender haven]

Maybe they interacted once when the AW ended

[ashen ocean]

And the mondsdadt manga showed thay venti knew beings from celestia

[ashen ocean]

Or throughout

[slender haven]

She didn't

Idiot

[ashen ocean]

I like to think that ronova was Kapatcir’s patron and loved him

[frigid lily]

Also, in the new artifact set
The first Seelie lost her name

[ashen ocean]

Until he went ape shit

[ashen ocean]

Hold on

https://youtu.be/-UzThMtwn7E?feature=shared

Because no way in hell would any of the archons be left on their own

Except focalors but i think Egeria covered up for her

Esp since it was a net positive action to humanity anyways

[slender haven]

I mean all she says there is that Ronova helped Xbalanque make the rules
We know she has access to Xbalanque's memories so that makes sense

[ashen ocean]

Ah fair enough tben

[ashen ocean]

I finally got around to reading the Artifact Lore

IG the golden city was the capital of the unified civilisation ?

Evolution being a taboo topic then too

The third (now second) descender a friend of nibelung ?

It seems the second who came is still far weaker than PO

So my guess is the Outlander/ Prince of Light , joined hands with PO to put down his now corrupted friend Nibelung

but the only contradiction I see is

how come the gnoses are free of abyssal corruption if they are from Nibelung's being

[frigid lily]

I don't see how thats a contradiction exactly, getting rid of abyss corruption isn't that hard

We know the nails were able to do it

[frigid lily]

It seems so, and it also seems to have major ties to the Seelies and maybe even Ronova?

[ashen ocean]

they had ties to all the shades imo

they have had to

[frigid lily]

I know but Ronova seems to be the main one

[ashen ocean]

not just ronova

[frigid lily]

Considering she's very likely to be the Lady of the Golden Hall

But more than that she's the envoy of dusk

[ashen ocean]

only cause we were exposed to her actions more often

[frigid lily]

And the envoy of dusk is the one who saw the first angel get freed by the outlander

[ashen ocean]

also, the interesting description(?) of shades as "shackles"

[ashen ocean]

moon sister

[frigid lily]

I don't think she shades were the shackles

[ashen ocean]

i dont see any mention of shades in any of the artefact descriptions except maybe maybe "shackles"

[frigid lily]

But it is worth noting that the mention of shackles was mentioned by nabu malikata in flowers for paradise lost

Let me go get it

[ashen ocean]

the world being bound by "shackles" as in they are the conduit via which the PO exerts his control over the planet

ig the other meaning of shackles could be the rules / laws of the PO over the seelies

that the outlander, as a descender was able to break

[ashen ocean]

The contradiction is that

Nibelung quite literally was the carrier

Patient Zero\

Hotbed

of the abyss into teyvat]

[ashen ocean]

The nails dealt with far far far lesser amounts of abyss than Nibelung represented

so the PO and the outlander must have paid a HEFTY price to make the gnoses

[ashen ocean]

The shackles are either

1. The teyvat laws that restrict fate and control human evolution, progress, dragons
2. Seelie's controls/ restrictions/ full autonomy, that was absent in creation
3. Both of the above

just my guesses

what do you think ?

[frigid lily]

I'd say the 1st one

[ashen ocean]

the artifact set makes me think its the second

wait

[tawdry blade]

Both

[ashen ocean]

its this part for me that says its both

[tawdry blade]

Feel like the shackles is just forbidden activity that if broken,you will be punished

[frigid lily]

The second one is more so the shackles of the Seelies, not so much so the shackles of the world

[ashen ocean]

I dont think the PO had punishment in mind when making seelies

[frigid lily]

At least thats what I see

[ashen ocean]

I think what happened was when this seelie spread the truth/ key to the shackles* to her cohorts

And fell in love with the outlander

And convinced the moons to let them be

[frigid lily]

Who do you guys think cursed the Seelies exactly
Because Ronova cursed the people with Khaenri'ah with immortality
We don't know much about the curse of the hillichurls but it's been in Teyvat for longer
But then which shade could have cursed the Seelies I wonder?

[ashen ocean]

Nibelung returned at the worst possible moment

[ashen ocean]

I dont think the shades did

[frigid lily]

So just PO?

[ashen ocean]

The nature of the seelie curse deals with their very being

Cdoes

Codes

Conduct

Etc

Only PO can

[ashen ocean]

Yeah

[tawdry blade]

What if it's Life Shade

[ashen ocean]

Life Shade on behest of PO ?

Possiblr tbh

When was Egeria created btw ?

[tawdry blade]

When Hydro sovereign died

I guess

Her purpose was just to replace his heart

[ashen ocean]

So ig she was the “oldest” god

Then

[slender haven]

They aren't from Nibelung

I think they might be from the Third who is possibly the Outlander

[ashen ocean]

The second arrived at teyvat before nibelung

[tawdry blade]

If the boy was still possessed by the outlander and is in love with the Angel, then it kinda ironic that we will go to nation of love next lol

[ashen ocean]

Sneznaya prep

[ashen ocean]

He comes to visit nibelung but finds the world is far different

[slender haven]

And he technically arrived before the PO too
They also possessed a normal Teyvatian man whose will wouldn't be strong enough to rival a world

[ashen ocean]

He arrived at the planet before Po

[slender haven]

So they wouldn't count as a descender when he came back

[ashen ocean]

But he didnt arrive at Teyvat before PO

[slender haven]

Teyvat...is the planet

Well mostly

[ashen ocean]

Teyvat is the region of the planet under the PO

Anything else is not

Ig

[ashen ocean]

Yeah but still

[slender haven]

All of the planet is under the PO's control, just Teyvat is under the archons' control

[ashen ocean]

The he would still be second

There was no fate before PO

[slender haven]

Not unless the Alien didn't count as a descender like the Sibling also doesn't count

I don't want to make any big theories until the finalized Artifact descriptions come out in 5.5 but I think the circlet implies he and the First Angel became one and maybe that's how they became the third descender?

[frigid lily]

Its worth noting that the outlander possesed a guy to meet the first Angel

I feel like we're not considering that enough

He didn't show up normally, he possesed a normal human to go to the golden hall

[slender haven]

Yeah that's important too
That would have limited their "will" and prevented them from being a full descender I'd imagine

[ashen ocean]

He had to be a descender otherwise he cant break the PO’s control of rhe first seelie

[slender haven]

Where does it say that

[ashen ocean]

#・genshin-spoilers message
i think it was this one

[frigid lily]

Also, in the end both the Angel and said outlander lost their memories, but I wonder if the outlander didn't really lose their memories, because of how they possesed someone?

[ashen ocean]

Also, doesnt it say the outlander landed at teyvat, and then possessed a man at the golden city to investigate ?

He had to have been at teyvat to possess that man didnt he

[frigid lily]

Yeah

[slender haven]

That could just be metaphor for the Alien revealing some crazy truths to her and "opening her eyes" not literally breaking mind control

[slender haven]

Maybe he's some kind of spirit and not physical

Since he possessed someone

[frigid lily]

He apparently just showed up and asked the Seelie what the truth of the world was and she just gave it to him, which caused her "shackles" to dissappear

Unfathomable rizz tbh

[slender haven]

Yeah that's possible too
Man now I can't wait for 5.5 to happen

[ashen ocean]

Does the concept of “spirit” exist outside of the planet ?

[slender haven]

Laveller wishes

[slender haven]

Why wouldn't it

[ashen ocean]

Good question

I dont know

[frigid lily]

Thats what I want to know too
Because Descenders don't have "souls" do they? They can't connect to Leylines

[ashen ocean]

Can a ghost pilot a shuttle, land on the planet and steal your body , and rizz up an angel ? PO may know

[slender haven]

Well I'd imagine they would
Just not in the same way normal things do

[slender haven]

I just thought it flew threw space normally
No space shuttle required

[ashen ocean]

Yeah , they are not subject to Leyline rules and cannot be inducted
Except maybe maybe, with stories about them , like PMC and Abyss Traveller (allegedly)

[frigid lily]

Abyss twin being connected to the leylines is very interestinf

I remember a long time ago

Someone in here suggested that the reason that Abyss Sibling is connected to the leylines is because they use their real name

While we, the Traveler don't

[tawdry blade]

[frigid lily]

In the bedtime story Traveler even says that the Abyss sibling is the only person to use their real name

But everyone refers to the Abyss Sibling as Lumine/Aether

I actually like that theory a lot tbh

[ashen ocean]

Its kinda weird

[frigid lily]

I think it was you who suggested it right?

[tawdry blade]

Ye

[ashen ocean]

The Lord of the Night knows POs real name

Almost blurted it out

[slender haven]

That would mean the Abyss Sibling was a descender at some point
I just think they're a lame ass bitch who can't hang with the other aliens

[tawdry blade]

I was talking about it when people keep saying how name are important in Natlan so I think of that theory

[ashen ocean]

If a seelie hag can almost add you to
Your own records bureau

On a whim

[ashen ocean]

Hmmm

[frigid lily]

If you can become a descender it's possible you're able to lose that status

[slender haven]

I guess but I don't think that's what happened to the Sibling

[ashen ocean]

Childe will become the Sneznayan descende

[slender haven]

No

[ashen ocean]

The pride of both sinners and harbingers

Discover he is part seelie on his moms side

Part archon on his dads side

Part rift hound from his dads side too

And defeat PO

[frigid lily]

Did his grandparents bang a rifthound and an archon????????

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/josu-gif-10332460582823096426

[ashen ocean]

No lol

I was just making fun

[slender haven]

No dragon DNA
Bum

[ashen ocean]

He looks similar to ichigo to me

So i made it up

[frigid lily]

I know lol

[ashen ocean]

His maternal grandmother had a fling with ubah kan

That was opposed by her angel mom

[slender haven]

Freakaklahun Ubah Kan

[tawdry blade]

Childe family tree need to be study

[slender haven]

Nibelung actually severed his 20 fingers off and scattered then across the world
When Childe eats one Nibelung will be reincarnated inside of him

[ashen ocean]

Teucer will be kidnapped by an Ailing PO, and brainwashed to fight Childe

[frigid lily]

Jokes aside some people are theorizing that the boy that the descender possesed may have been the real Ajax

[tawdry blade]

The Strongest of Today versus the Strongest of History ah

[slender haven]

Possible

[ashen ocean]

Possibly

But fr tho
I do think childe is the likeliest candidate for descender ascension

[frigid lily]

I personally think its Capitano lol

[ashen ocean]

His vision going out of service is what has me believe that

[frigid lily]

Childe too but I feel like Capitano is also a good candidate idk

[ashen ocean]

Rene de Petrichor believed getting a vision would end his goals prematurely

So he rushed his experiments and messed up

[frigid lily]

Mostly because of Capitano's will power
Because being a descender is all about the will to challenge the world or whatever

And Capitano being basically the king of the night kingdom right now

[ashen ocean]

Meanwhile childe is the first example of a vision forever dying out come across

[ashen ocean]

Yeah but he didnt challenge the will of the Po

[frigid lily]

Actually

[tawdry blade]

His vision is fine after tho

[ashen ocean]

Still working within his framework

[slender haven]

I think Pierro

[frigid lily]

Goddamn so everyone's a descender now
Smy

*smh

[slender haven]

We're all so varied

[ashen ocean]

But he never uses hydro after

And he gives it up

[frigid lily]

It is worth noting

[slender haven]

I also think Irmin might become one

[frigid lily]

That I think there will be two characters that will become a descender

[tawdry blade]

How do you know

We don't even see him in action after Fontaine

[slender haven]

We see him with it in Arle's quest

[ashen ocean]

Fair enough

[ashen ocean]

Which one ?

I do not recall

Forgive me

[slender haven]

The only Arle quest
He shows up in it

[tawdry blade]

When we are looking to distract Arlecchino

[slender haven]

He's looking for Skirk now

[tawdry blade]

From her childhood friend

[ashen ocean]

Hmm

So he in fact didnt lose it ?

[tawdry blade]

Yes

[ashen ocean]

Oof

[tawdry blade]

We legit sent it to Snez I think

[frigid lily]

Because like
Traveler is supposed to "represent" the PO I guess?
Like he's the PO of this samsara, not sure if I'm making sense
But then who will "represent" the second and the third descender?
So that's why I think there will be two people who will ascend

[ashen ocean]

Abyss sibling/ Irmin ?

[tawdry blade]

If Traveler is PO,then Abyss twin is Nibelung and Tsarista is the dead gnosis guy

The history repeat

[frigid lily]

Honestly I'd just say Capitano and Childe
They are the two options I see fit
Childe because of the new skirk set and other stuff mentioned above
Capitano because uhhh king of night kingdom i guess

[slender haven]

I'm a Capitano glazer and I don't think he's going to become a descender
I think Surtalogi might want to turn Childe into a descender so he could then steal his power or something but he'll fail

[frigid lily]

Maybe idk

[ashen ocean]

Old manipulating promising young hero

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-smile-creepy-creepy-smile-smirk-gif-24584761

[slender haven]

Surtalogi is probably going to be young looking though

[ashen ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-emperor-look-stare-gif-15923185

[ashen ocean]

Mid sized twink

[slender haven]

No please

[ashen ocean]

Or Xbalanque short male model

I have a theory that the sinners havent met us yet
To manipulate the traveller into using their descender powers wrongly for their benefit

[tawdry blade]

He will be disguise as one of the npc so hoyo won't work on his design(not playable)

[ashen ocean]

And gets ate by Sassy Enjou

[ashen ocean]

Is the traveller aware of their descender privileges

[tawdry blade]

Nahida already told us

[ashen ocean]

Not like

[tawdry blade]

You mean power?

[ashen ocean]

Of HOW their actions challenge fate

And change it

[tawdry blade]

Hm

[ashen ocean]

Have they had to choose changing fate or abstain for the same

[tawdry blade]

Traveler definitely know but not sure of the result

[hasty narwhal]

Thinking of it with Skirk's set lore it does make me think of Childe's connection to all of this.
Childe's real name is Ajax and there's been tales of an ancient hero named Ajax who visited the golden city.(ballads of the Fjords). The weird note in the tower of the order talking about a play named Ajax of somebody sinking into the abyss to rebirth into a holy infant was also eerily similar sounding and whack. There's also that celestial whale that imprinted on him /j

I think at this point it would be hilarious if Childe was really just a random guy that just ended at the wrong place and wrong time

[frigid lily]

Is it said that Ajax visited the Golden City specifically? I'll have to reread Ballads of the Fjords again
But yeah people are theorizing that Ajax is the guy that the descender who fell in love with the first Angel posessed so

Ok so I reread it and it mentioned that he discovered a country of gold and white that was beneath the Earth
That may very well be the Golden City, and if thats the case then yeah it makes sense that its Skirk set and all
But its hard to know if the Abyss that Childe fell into is the same as the real Ajax

Personally I will still stick to my theory that the Night Kingdom used to be the Golden City

[hasty narwhal]

So far the theory of the golden city goes 1.the descender that possessed a boy to debate the sages---> Og ajax ---> Skirk discovering this place.
As about if our Ajax felt in front of that silver tree I have no idea the only line in his character story describes where he fell as "There, he witnessed the endless possibilities of another ancient world. There, he would meet a mysterious swordswoman..."

As the connection with the night kingdom I have no concrete element to prove it.

[frigid lily]

Personally rereading Ballads of Fjorn make it kind of seem like it wasn't Ajax that was possesed by the descender??
I mean it makes sense, because of it being Skirk's artifact set but it seems as if Ajax came way after the battle of vengeance
So like, at the time of the Archon war

[hasty narwhal]

oh no I don't think Ajax was possesed

but Ajax discovered the golden city after it fell irrc

and skirk even later when surtalogi asked her to look for it

if our ajax indeed also fell in the remains of the city then yeah that's way too many connections

but tbf Skirk went to look for it in the north, and that's where our Ajax fell also, so it very much could be

[frigid lily]

Ah ok, I see

Personally I believe Natlan or specifically the Night Kingdom is where the Golden City used to be for a couple of reasons:

The Golden City was nailed, The Night Kingdom too
There's a Local Legend in Natlan who's title is "explorer of the Golden City"
The Golden City has heavy ties to both the Seelies and Ronova, and so does the Night Kingdom
Natlan's Irminsul tree was very likely to have been attacked by Nibelung, and Nibelung was friends with that descender, so maybe I guess it makes sense that he'd go for Natlan specifically?

The main thing that throws that theory in the trash entirely is the fact that they keep referring to the Golden City as being up north, but I personally buy into the theory that Nod Krai and Natlan were once one place that got split, and if thats the case then the Night Kingdom being the Golden City could work, as in there's parts of the Golden City that are located in Natlan, and others that are located in Nod Krai/Snezhnaya.
Plus, Skirk coming out in 5.X means we're probably going to get lore in said Golden City, and maybe she will come to Natlan to explore the Night Kingdom.

[ashen ocean]

Night Kingdom cannot be the golden city because of one issue

Its that we would have seen more and more ancient structures

As it is the capital (?) of the unified civilisation

And golden city got the first Nail

The explorer of the golden city could also mean Och Kan or another dragon ruin within Natlan’s context

Also, which local legend was this

?

Also, I like the confirmation that there was no nail in Fontaine

Only 6 thus far in teyvat

I do have a lazy prediction for this
Somewhere near the climax of teyvat, Celestia will send down it’s seventh nail

In Sneznaya likely

[frigid lily]

I thought it was the desert that got nailed first?

[ashen ocean]

Could be 5050

Golden City being nailed first does cover much of the changes the Second Descender brought

[frigid lily]

Well, we haven't explored the night kingdom to its fullest, thats the thing.
I mean, it isn't even an explorable area, we only explored it through a domain in the main Archon Quest
So it could mean that there are ancient structures, but they are deeper in the Night Kingdom, and we'll see it if we go back to explore the night kingdom in the Archon Quest, idk
Like I said I still personally prefer my theory even if I'm aware there are holes in it

[ashen ocean]

We do explore it in nursery of nightmares though

The only structures there are natlanese

[frigid lily]

The nursery of nightmares is not deep enough to be the night kingdom itselt

[ashen ocean]

Fair enough

[ashen ocean]

How real could this be ?

[frigid lily]

We know too little about the sinners to really know tbh

[slender haven]

Can someone send the fully translated Skirk set again? I can't find it

I gotta reread it

[slender haven]

Can't believe Rhinedottir is going to have the Nahida model /j

[ashen ocean]

look up link in this chat

[ashen ocean]

this is just a prediction

only 1/6 of the book was releasediirc

[slender haven]

But that still says Google Translate so I'm worried it's not accurate
Or am I just stupid because the descriptions don't really change much when I press the translate button

[ashen ocean]

just use it

none of us here know mandarin

This is the best we have for now

The translate wont change much anyways

Nibelung is still the 3rd Descender

[slender haven]

No he isn't

[ashen ocean]

yes he is

he still arrivated at "Teyvat" after his friend

his friend had all the time in the world to go from possessing a man to rizzing up and marrying the first seelie / seelie queen

unless you wanna assume he only entered teyvat in his real body when Nibelung crashed his wedding

and that makes him the third

also
there is a power mismatch if he was the third descender imo

PO was already OP enough
Nibelung too

this outlander being powerful exceedingly on his own means PO would not have taken as much damage that he had to recover for 7000 years
or PO was indeed just that strong to forego allyship with the outlander

[slender haven]

Skirk explicitly says that the gnoses and the Primordial authority of the dragons

[ashen ocean]

Yeah but neuvillette got his back

[slender haven]

Yeah and he had the gnosis when he and Skirk talked

You think Neuvi wouldn't recognize the power of his king?

[ashen ocean]

But still gave the powerless gnoses to Arle

[slender haven]

It isn't powerless

People still thinking the gnoses have the dragon authority in 2025 smh

[ashen ocean]

I always assumed the gnoses only contained the dragon authority
But the actual value is the material the gnoses is made of

[ashen ocean]

Mb

[slender haven]

It ok

[ashen ocean]

Enlighten me

[slender haven]

No they definitely have a separate power
Neuvi says that he "doesn't need the power of the gnosis"
Not "it's powerless now because they contained the authority"

[ashen ocean]

He might struggle to imo
Maybe the Hydro dragon before and Nibelung before abyss pill

Oh

So the throne contains the authority

[slender haven]

Mhm

[ashen ocean]

But the gnoses contain nibelumg power

?

[slender haven]

They don't

[ashen ocean]

Then what are they exactly

[slender haven]

I think the outlander and the first Seelie merged
Since at the very end she says "let OUR bones remake the world" or something like that

[slender haven]

The bones of the outlander and the first Seelie who merged into one to become the third

[ashen ocean]

But wasnt the union put to the rest by the PO ?

[slender haven]

Well they survived

The artifact descriptions are hard to make out since they're still Google translated

[ashen ocean]

That would make them the fourth no? If they indeed become a new being albeit temporarily

But ig this could be why Rene attempted a Gestalt

[slender haven]

No because the Outlander was an alien not a descender

[slender haven]

Yeah you're right

It's also implied that the Narwhal wants to consume a world to eventually create a new world inside of itself, effectively becoming a descender

Since it'd "sustaining" a new world in itself

Man 5.5 can't come soon enough

[ashen ocean]

Hmm
A way to keep nibelungs second descender status this way too ?

[ashen ocean]

Yeah

[slender haven]

Yep

[ashen ocean]

We need the Ubah Kan lore dump on Nibelung

[slender haven]

I'm sure Skirk's quest will give us answers too
Whether she comes out in 5.6 or 5.7

[slender haven]

I saw some leaks for the quest and he does
I didn't see the full transcript though

[frigid lily]

5.5 is in 4 weeks
Personally I'm more excited for what 5.6 has in store

[ashen ocean]

Hopefully 5.7, my primos are going to the fraud archon

The 5.4 second half abyss is too painful

[slender haven]

Yeah, we'll probably get a new AQ or Interlude

[frigid lily]

So far the only two thing that interest me in 5.5 is Varesa and the fully translated Skirk set
Other than that I don't really care

[ashen ocean]

Ubah kan veteran lore

[frigid lily]

Idc about Ubah Kan

Sorry

[ashen ocean]

Dainsleif lore

[slender haven]

Maybe

[frigid lily]

No
I want Seelie lore

[ashen ocean]

Dragon lore -> Seelie lore

[frigid lily]

Screw Dainsleif, he's mid

[ashen ocean]

Khaenrian lore -> seelie lore via its founding

[frigid lily]

Least tarded statement you've said

[slender haven]

Seelie didn't found Khaenri'ah

[ashen ocean]

Just hope it is true

[ashen ocean]

How even

[slender haven]

Ok

[ashen ocean]

Any lore on the dragon wars can give info dumps on seelies

[frigid lily]

Because its dumb
Dragon lore is dumb
Seelie lore is better
Its just a factual statement

[slender haven]

Nuh uh

[frigid lily]

^^ stupid idiot alert

[slender haven]

Seelie are Celestial dogs licking the feet of the Limordial One
Dragons are the chads eating them

Even Nabu went "n-n-no Deshret don't pursue the master of the 4 shades even though they murdered my entire people 🤓 🤓 🤓 "

The Seelie are frauds, simple 'as

Except the first Seelie, she was cool

[ashen ocean]

Dragon lore is badass
Hoyo’s copy of Planet of the Apes

[frigid lily]

Nabu Malikata told Deshret to not pursue Phanes because if he did everyone from Deshret's civilization would be in danger
She was trying to protect her people
And even so she still helped Deshret with forbidden knowledge so

[slender haven]

So she folded the literal second Deshret rizzed her up

[frigid lily]

Dragon lore is for 14 year old edgelords who look up sigma edits on tiktok and think all women are mid

[frigid lily]

I mean wouldn't you

[slender haven]

Yeah Deshret was pretty cool
Fuck my kingdom

[slender haven]

And Seelie lore is for 30 year old white women who say shit like "slayyyyy" to a news article of a woman murdering her family

[frigid lily]

So the first Seelie trying to go against the Primordial One even though it would hurt everyone is based but Nabu doing it is bad 😭 😭 ?

[frigid lily]

Nah
Seelie lore is for twitter lesbians who hate on all male characters and love Raiden Shogun

Get your facts straight smh smh

[slender haven]

I'm more criticizing her for her lack of backbone
Doesn't want to avenge her people till someone else tells her to help him rise up and even then she tells "oh don't pursue the Abyss btw" before telling him everything about the Abyss

[slender haven]

Fair

I'm gonna go listen to my sigma phonk edits now

[ashen ocean]

Nope
Dragons are non binary and gay

And dragons ruled the spaces

From their shuttles

[frigid lily]

Fair
I'm gonna uhhh
Watch a slay the princess playthrough for the 5th time this week

[ashen ocean]

Seelies stole Dragon land and terraformed it smh

[frigid lily]

Good for them
Dragons are mid and gay

[slender haven]

Do the Seelie have a Samson hm?

He destroys every Seelie

[empty glacier]

HuTaoLick_Nociii

[frigid lily]

Does he even know basic math

[slender haven]

Math is Seelie made propaganda

[neat epoch]

Finishing off Sumeru's Archon Quest. It's my favorite Archon Quest so far.

The part with the final moments of Rukkhadevata much like Baizhu's and Xianyun's story Quest absolutely devastated me.

[frigid lily]

Glad you enjoyed it! Sumeru is still my favorite Archon Quest to this day.

[slender haven]

Man it's been a tough time for us Nibelung is the Second Descender bros
I don't know how many times I can say that Skirk explicitly says that the dragon authority and the gnoses' power is different

[ashen ocean]

Its going to be tougher

[slender haven]

Not when 5.5 releases

[ashen ocean]

Also
I like how the artifact set confirms a truth about the sun too

We have not spoken about it yet

Here

[ashen ocean]

Tsaritsa plans to revive the third descender bros are on asylum watch

Or will be

[slender haven]

Yeah screw those guys lol

[frigid lily]

I never understood that theory
What could she possibly gain from reviving the third descender?

[ashen ocean]

Ig her plan is to use Nibelung’s remains to get control over the primal dragon authority and fight PO

[ashen ocean]

Descenders can and have beaten the PO’s laws

[frigid lily]

As in, the third descender specifically is what I mean

[ashen ocean]

Tsaritsa wants to overthrow logos, or at least that is what we know so far

[frigid lily]

Yeah

[ashen ocean]

Only descender anyone bas access to

And can fight PO

Traveller is simply too weak

[frigid lily]

Can a descender be revived though I wonder
Because no connection to the ley lines so

[ashen ocean]

I think that is what makes the revival/ resurrection all the more special

[frigid lily]

Fair

Speaking of revival

This new info makes me think of pale princess and the six pygmies again

Because the Light Prince is supposed to be revived right?

By the Traveler

[ashen ocean]

Yeah

Ig its the second who came or
PO himself
Battlepass Prince
Khaenrian Khia

[slender haven]

She probably wants to use them to become a descender

[ashen ocean]

Yeah

[slender haven]

Well Apep implies Nibelung has been reincarnated and he was the second descender

[ashen ocean]

Maybe she wants to control the sun ?

[slender haven]

Probably not that

[ashen ocean]

The sun used to be a single white light until PO came

[frigid lily]

That is true

[ashen ocean]

There were elemental sovereigns, but the sun was always white

And during the war of vengeance, the sun chariot fell down

[slender haven]

She probably just wants to use them to gain a will that rivals the world

[ashen ocean]

What if Nibelung was really just the sovereign of the sun

[slender haven]

Technically that would be Xiuhcoatl since he's called the sun

Nibelung is just the sovereign of "the beginning" or something iirc

[ashen ocean]

Hmm fair

[frigid lily]

I remember in one domain description I think, Deshret was mentioned having a sun chariot of sorts

[slender haven]

He was also a "scion of the sun" or something

[frigid lily]

Yeah

Deshret is weird, because he was from Celestia but apparently had no idea about the moon sisters or anything like it

[slender haven]

I don't think he was from Celestia
He just had sun powers

[frigid lily]

I think it was mentioned that he was a "son of the sky" at some point

[slender haven]

Like I said I think that's more just a reference to him being a sun god of some kind

Like how the Raidens are "from the sky" since they're lightning

[ashen ocean]

Deshret was likely pyro before ditching his body

Like Nabu was electro

[slender haven]

Yeah he's probably pyro

[ashen ocean]

Burning - Deshret and Rukha
Quicken- Nabu and Rukha

[frigid lily]

Huh where does it say Nabu was Electro?

[ashen ocean]

Her colour scheme

Also
I remember some line about quicken

[frigid lily]

Ah ok
I mean I wouldn't really count that as concrete evidence though lol

[ashen ocean]

That the friendship between Goddess of Flowers and Rukha was so deep

It became a wholr reaction or something

I do not remember

Wait

I think it was the first description about quicken or it is with the electro regisvine

[frigid lily]

Its not in the electro regisvine description

And I can't find the description of quicken

Found it kind of

[slender haven]

I was looking for that, what page is it?

[frigid lily]

Catalyze

https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Catalyze

Its in the trivia section

[slender haven]

Cool
I remember there was a similar description talking about Deshret's pyro connection too but I can find that

[frigid lily]

The trivia section on that page kind of goes on that as well, with the tri-lashkna or whatever creatures

[slender haven]

Yeah I found it

[verbal chasm]

Not sure if its okay to post but just in case || I heared somewhere that the sky is gonna break even more in 5.5 ||not sure if anyone else saw it?

[frigid lily]

Its part of the new world quest

[slender haven]

We also get to finally wipe Natlan off the face of the Earth!

[ashen ocean]

It is likely just an old breach in the sky

Or a new one the traveller puts through in the world quests

[tawdry blade]

Likely get fix later on

[verbal chasm]

Was thinking the same that hole is huge

[tawdry blade]

Also it don't really matter if it don't get fix after the WQ. No one will ever get to that place except Traveler

If Ronova or Space Shade is lazy I guess

It is also possible we can enter it and get to this place

[hasty narwhal]

All those sceneries remind me of that theory that teyvat is inside a black hole

[ashen ocean]

This is the night kingdom

[tawdry blade]

[ashen ocean]

The background reminds me of it

[slender haven]

And Nibelung is the third descender

[ashen ocean]

If Hoyo doesnt pull the twists again

Yesh

[slender haven]

I guess
The Skirk quest will save us all

[ashen ocean]

I am more interested in the Mare Quest than Skirk quest ngl

Unless if the skirk quest gives us the Golden City Lore

[ashen ocean]

The question is if dain will ambush her in the skirk quest

On the topic of dain

How powerful is he really

[slender haven]

Oh yeah that'll be really good too
Especially if Natlantea is there

[slender haven]

Probably really really strong

Sibling says they could send an entire army after him and he's still beat them

He could've beat the Sibling if he wasn't holding back too

[ashen ocean]

To challenge us at his final stage when we are a fully fledged descender about to take control over Teyvat

[slender haven]

If she gets to talk to Tartaglia more hopefully

[ashen ocean]

And dain is at his lowest as well

[slender haven]

I don't think it will be when we're a full descender
But when we're close

[ashen ocean]

No memories, just the shadow of his duty driving his mind

[slender haven]

Well he didn't rot like Cap

[ashen ocean]

I think we will be a full descender then as we are at the sea of flowers then

[slender haven]

He also has abyss powers now probably

[slender haven]

Well I think we'll become a full descender after we "save her" which Dain is challenging us to

Because then we could challenge the world together

[ashen ocean]

And rewriting teyvat’s laws ? Ig

[ashen ocean]

Ahh

[slender haven]

Mhm

[ashen ocean]

Yes

[ashen ocean]

It is wild that we dont know if he obtained the world shattering power as well

[frigid lily]

Worth mentioning that Dainsleif's whole thing about not being able to rot my have to do with the ring he's wearing
Its based on some old cbt notes on him

[slender haven]

Yeah

[slender haven]

Yeah I remember the ring, possibly to do with Nibelung for what we know

[frigid lily]

Yes

[ashen ocean]

Did he say that ?

[slender haven]

The Sibling did

[ashen ocean]

The ring of nibelung is the primary source material of the game’s lore

So likely

[slender haven]

Khaenri'ah's lore specifically

[ashen ocean]

Hmm
So our sibling beats him via emotional blackmail

[ashen ocean]

No the whole of teyvat lore

Is

[slender haven]

Not Remuria

[ashen ocean]

I am talking of it like the over arching lore

Above remuria

[slender haven]

Ig

[ashen ocean]

Teyvat as a single stage

[slender haven]

Gnosticism is more of the over arching inspiration imo

[ashen ocean]

That too

Irminsul was a thing before the PO too right ?

[slender haven]

We don't know

Probably but some people think no

[frigid lily]

Its hard to know

If Dragons are able to have like their memories and souls recorded in the ley lines then probably yes?

[ashen ocean]

I remember someone arguing that the tree is what makes nibelung the king of dragons

The first and only enlightened being on the planet

[ashen ocean]

Leylines were uniquely a PO invention

[frigid lily]

So Irminsul was probably created by it as well

[ashen ocean]

Idk
Nibelung not co existing with the world tree just feels wrong

[frigid lily]

Speaking of which, Rhukkaredacted was the "avatar of Irminsul" but we don't really know how she was born or anything
I mean, for example, Venti is part of the Thousand Winds
Zhongli was born at the time when the Moon Sisters fell
The Raiden Twins are kind of a mystery still
Egeria was created by the Shade of Life
And Xmidlanque was just a human
But we don't know much about Rhukkha

[slender haven]

Morax wasn't born when the Moon Sisters fell
We don't know where he came from

[ashen ocean]

Rukha was the avatar of irminsul the same way Egeria was the second heart of the primordial sea ig

[ashen ocean]

And he wasnt born as Morax either

[frigid lily]

But like, who created her if at all

Was she always the Avatar of Irminsul or did she become it when she ascended aw Archon

[ashen ocean]

Shade of Life, or a seelie, or the PO himself

[ashen ocean]

No clue

We know the sumeru archon wars never happened

Only that The archon ship was first offered to Amun

[slender haven]

If he was born as a god then he was Morax

[ashen ocean]

But he rescinded the offer

[ashen ocean]

But he wasnt born one

[slender haven]

He was

[ashen ocean]

He was alive when the moon sisters were active

Hes born before the war of vengeance

[slender haven]

Yeah, as a God
For all we know he was an angel

[ashen ocean]

He couldnt have been a god until after the war

[slender haven]

If angels could even be male that is

[ashen ocean]

Not an angel for sure

Since he suffers from erosion

[slender haven]

Who says that

[ashen ocean]

The demon name program initiative

[slender haven]

That's literally just your head canon

[slender haven]

Yohual was suffering from erosion which Capitano fixed

[ashen ocean]

But theres no evidence of demon named gods before the archon war

Or gods at all

[frigid lily]

How so?

[slender haven]

The Angels were gods

[ashen ocean]

Except maybe egeria but she wasnt intended to be one

[ashen ocean]

Angels arent gods

[slender haven]

They are

[frigid lily]

The first Angel had a demon name supposedly but it got erased when she got cursed

[slender haven]

They're called gods multiple times

[ashen ocean]

Not as archon war gods

[frigid lily]

Who says that tho

Nabu could have become Dendro Archon

[slender haven]

I think that was just in reference to her normal name
Which I guess was her Goetia name though

[ashen ocean]

Wasnt that just the seelie curse and the strain of her work

[slender haven]

No cause she never fell in love

She'd be brain dead if she was cursed

[ashen ocean]

Was it mentioned anywhere

[frigid lily]

I think it has to be her Goetia name because Goetia names are usually pretty important

[ashen ocean]

All of them are cursed already

[slender haven]

I guess

[frigid lily]

Goetia names are Archons/Gods/Angels "true names"

[slender haven]

Yeah but it only activates when they fall in love
Hence why Nabu didn't devolve

NabuRukk shippers in shambles

[ashen ocean]

Nabu also wasnt too old for the curse to really progress

Youhul is over 7k years old

[slender haven]

She was thousands of years old
Deshret didn't even know about the Seelie race that's how old he was

Who says the curse isn't just instant? Fall in love one day next day you're gone

[ashen ocean]

Wasnt he alive soon after the war of the vengeance

[slender haven]

No he didn't even know about the Seelie
And he already had a kingdom when he met Nabu

That's like at least a couple centuries

[ashen ocean]

No like half of yuri is just yearning
So perfect for the Nabu Rukk ship

[ashen ocean]

Hmm

[slender haven]

Tragic Yuri since she'd instantly become a ghost if she reciprocated

[ashen ocean]

Tragic Yuri coz she also loved the man

And sacrificed herself for him

[frigid lily]

Speaking of which, Remus was from the desert which is also weird

[ashen ocean]

Fair enough

[slender haven]

Not that weird
He probably had a tribe under his control in the north, Deshret conquered, he moved to Fontaine

[ashen ocean]

But the issue i see is angels still serving the PO somewhat directly after their exile and receiving his power fragments

Because all gods thus far in the archon war have been composed of material native to Teyvat

And from Natlan Archon Quests we know that the PO intends for the people of teyvat to overcome the challenges he gives and the abyss on their own without shade aid

[ashen ocean]

Like every mention of his curse gives me the impression he was done with them

Like done done

[slender haven]

No they haven't, well kinda
Egeria is specified as being made from materials from Teyvat and being described as similar to the dragons, which implies she is not the norm

Though maybe she was made from the old phlogiston based elements while the other gods are made from the new Phanes made elements and that's what they mean

[ashen ocean]

the new phane elements are still split portions of the dragon era elements

or element

[slender haven]

Synthesized elements

[ashen ocean]

yeah basically

[slender haven]

Or something

But they're still different

They have Phanes' grubby mitts on them

[ashen ocean]

i do have another guess that all of the archons or gods were carved off the sovereigns at some point

and either they made it to the end or succumbed to the wars or cataclysm (like egeria)

I wish some event finally clarifies Ei's origins hopefully as a lightning spirit taken off of the electro sovereign

[ashen ocean]

grubby mitts on their making, and a portion of his admin perms for being granted the god role

[slender haven]

We know from Xianyun's lore that the adepti were not made by gods which should mean Morax wasn't created either but he might be different

[slender haven]

If we ever get the electro sovereign that is

[slender haven]

More like a hacker that took the admin perms from the actual admins

[ashen ocean]

my guess is this lore is saved for the next playable adepti in lantern rite
My pitch is that the adepti were creations of the seelies like oceanids of egeria's .

[ashen ocean]

that works too

[slender haven]

Maybe in Blackcliff Forge too whenever we get it

[ashen ocean]

they have to clarify that soon enough.
Unless they plan on giving Electro sovereign lore for Nod Krai for the Cryo-Electro reaction lore/ backdrop and as a homage/ nod to Tesla

[frigid lily]

There's still the whole thing about the sacred sakura protecting something that we don't know about
But I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with the electro sovereign and more so the abyss

[slender haven]

I have a theory the adepti could be some kind of experiment to create "new" dragons using the new human realms elements

[ashen ocean]

ooohj spicy
that does explain a lot with Rex Lapis's original appearance

His exuvia form at least that is

[slender haven]

Yeah, and since they're pure elemental beings
Plus we've really been getting a lot of lore on the dragons and their "evolution"

[ashen ocean]

isnt it protecting something from the Heavenly Principles

[slender haven]

There are also mentions of ancient civilizations in the Forge, so maybe we'll be getting some new dragon remnants too

[ashen ocean]

I want to believe they are hinting that Khaenrians are dragon humans

[slender haven]

That too, but adepti could just be another result of a similar line of experimentation

[ashen ocean]

While collecting furina materials i recollected of the vishap named Paahsiv

whos a vishap evolved into a melusine, an abyssal creature or at least whose origins lie in the void realm

[slender haven]

I think she just shapeshifted into one

[ashen ocean]

Dragons to Humanity pipeline remains undefeated

[slender haven]

I do think that too

[ashen ocean]

still a huge feat considering a light realm creature mimics a void realm one when the other way around is more common in natlan at the least

[slender haven]

The melusines aren't really purely abyssal anymore
Since they were made when human blood got mixed in with Elynas' body and all

[ashen ocean]

still, an anthesis to the light realm creatures

but not to the human / physical realm ones

[frigid lily]

I don't think so

I don't think the electro sovereign is in Inazuma anymore like people like to believe

I think it died in the dark sea

Inazuma is the closest nation to the dark sea after all

And also the dark sea is a pretty big mystery as well

I wanna know more about it

Maybe we'll explore it after Khaenri'ah lol

[ashen ocean]

There is still Sneznaya and Mare

which may or may not be part of the dark sea

[ashen ocean]

hopefully

[ashen ocean]

idts, all of the sovereigns were scavenged to some degree after their defeat

[ashen ocean]

wasnt it blooming in rebellion to the heavenly principles ?

[frigid lily]

No? Where does it say that?

[frigid lily]

I can see Mare being on the dark sea

[ashen ocean]

in that cutscene in Ei story quest 2
albeit i could be misinterpretting it

[frigid lily]

I think you are lol

[ashen ocean]

https://youtu.be/mmr3z24f20g?feature=shared

[frigid lily]

Yes I know about that cutscene

But I'm talking about what the Sacred Sakura is protecting

[slender haven]

Unrelated but Jenna it is pretty funny how in a roundabout way Capitano actually did turn out to be related to the Outlander who married the seelie
Since he's his great great great great great grandad

[frigid lily]

How so

[slender haven]

It's implied that the Outlander and the First Seelie may have created Khaenri'ah
Since the Outlander had "stars in his eyes"

[frigid lily]

Ohh I see.

[slender haven]

Yeah, pretty interesting to think about
I always thought it'd be Nibelung's reincarnation who founded it but this is interesting too

[ashen ocean]

I still wanna believe that Khaenrians are dragon humans/ spawn of nibelung in some capacity

like in the ring of nibelung

the dragon remains at the bottom of the tree and chews it

[slender haven]

They could still definitely have connections to the dragons
Since the outlander was best pals with Nibelung

[ashen ocean]

and here khaenriah is located at the roots of irminsul and shook the foundations of the world in the cataclysm

[ashen ocean]

outlander and nibelung were sibglings/ dragon kin and dragons are present across Space theory

[frigid lily]

Speaking of which
Could it be possible that the Outlander wasn't a descender
I mean ok, yes, its obvious that the outlander is a descender, but there could be a chance that they weren't, and that they were just a regular alien
Idk just something to think about.

[slender haven]

No the outlander was just a tourist and befriend Nibelung

[ashen ocean]

dragons will invade teyvaat like the abyss does in the near future to avenge their kin

Planet of the Dragons in my genshin impact

[slender haven]

I thought that too
I had a theory that maybe the Outlander and the First Angel merged in their "marriage" and that's how they became the third descedner

[frigid lily]

We still don't know what it takes to become a descender so who knows

[slender haven]

But I saw an updated translation of the Skirk set and it kind of disproved my theory

[ashen ocean]

can you share it

[frigid lily]

^^

[ashen ocean]

yeah true
coz then any of the hexenzirkil are descender candidates

[slender haven]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FatuiHQ/comments/1j0b09y/full_translation_of_skirk_set/

Here

[ashen ocean]

IDK but I wanna put my weight behind the Planet of the Dragons theory

why does the dragon story in genshin resemble planet of the apes

[slender haven]

Not really

[frigid lily]

Idk anything about planet of the apes so

[ashen ocean]

planet of the apes premise is that apes learn to talk like humans and become smarter, while humans lose their ability to speak and regress to ape like behaviours

human civilisation collapses and becomes antique treasures of the past

apes have their sophisticated civilisation like humans and discover lost human tech and develop their own

[hasty narwhal]

wasn't there a similar lines in the celestial narwhal boss text

[frigid lily]

Deshret also said something similar I think idk

[ashen ocean]

in the midst of it, humans who have gone space exploring return on a shuttle named icarus and learn of the developments back home

[slender haven]

Hm yeah

[ashen ocean]

and are treated like apes are as of the present and wage a struggle against the ape civilisation for dominance of the planet

Since dragons were clarified to have been space voyagers and the decrepit state of their people as saurians and vishaps I draw these similarities

[frigid lily]

Everything goes back to Childe 😭 😭

[hasty narwhal]

Yeah

As the Tsaritsa (or maybe Pierro idk) said, he's the eye of the storm where bloodshed and trouble will wake in his path. That and the whole Ajax story

[ashen ocean]

Being involved in not one but two whole different group’s plots to take down the heavenly principles does that

[frigid lily]

By the way
Since we are comparing random genshin lore related things to other pieces of media

Sybilla and by extension the Seelies, are literally just the Damsel from Slay the Princess
Thats it
I just wanted to say that

[slender haven]

And you don't you play as some kind of dragon guy?

[frigid lily]

Bird/dragon guy ges

*yes

[slender haven]

Literally Nibelung

[frigid lily]

The scrunkly ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

[slender haven]

Is he carrying the knife with his foot?

[frigid lily]

No

It just he has like multiple wings

[slender haven]

Yeah

[frigid lily]

So his whole thing is covering his face with them

[slender haven]

I understand

[ashen ocean]

So many bots

[frigid lily]

Yeah idk why there have been so many lately

I've never even seen bots in this server before

This is the first time its been happening

[ashen ocean]

Sign of a recession ig

/j

[urban meteor]

@ashen ocean tldr is rhine is from hyperborea

i'll send the full explanation in a bit

[ashen ocean]

send

at your pace

[tawdry blade]

Where

[ashen ocean]

bro ghosted

[hasty narwhal]

sucked into the void

[ashen ocean]

https://youtu.be/OtncxuRR6QI?feature=shared

@slender haven I think you might like this

[frigid lily]

"In an instant, the fetters laid upon her by the enthroned ruler broke apart like a spider's web; for the first time, she discovered what it meant to serve herself,"

Quote from skirk's artifact set

So I was right about the Seelie curse, and how the whole thing activated when a Seelie basically gained a will to care for themselves

Ok, also something interesting of note

With the new translation of the skirk artifact set

The girl talked about at the beginning, the one who is following her master's guidance or whatever, might not be Skirk
Because right afterwards the asrtifact set says that it (the girl being sent by her master or whatever) happened before the war with the moons

And also if thats the case this kind of adds more point to my night kingdom = golden city theory
If I'm delusional enough that is
which I am

[hasty narwhal]

Tbf we don't know how old Skirk is

[frigid lily]

Ok but unless she had another master before Surtalogi then it doesn't make sense

Also ok nevermind, the next artifact set kind of once again puts a hole in my theory
Goddamn it

Wait

The outlander is a she?

[hasty narwhal]

apparently yes

she's a she who possessed a boy to talk the sages out of their rules and make one of the seelie think for themselves iirc

unless I'm mixing it with another outlander

[frigid lily]

Oh

Also this is interesting

Oh, maybe North is actually Mondstadt
I didn't even think of that

Man idk what to make of anything after reading the full translated set lmfao

[tawdry blade]

So she 36* the spiral abyss,nice

[frigid lily]

I just don't want my Night Kingdm = Golden City theory to be dead even though it 100% is 😭

[frigid lily]

Also side note, its funny how little they give a shit about Natlan considering the two artifact sets are all about Nod-Krai and Snezhnaya.
Back in Fontaine, Sumeru and Inazuma the second artifact set of the region was always about the lore of the nation, while the third would have some hint about the next nation
Meanwhile we only have a total of 3 Natlan artifact sets lmfao. Not even something on the Mare Jivari or Natlantean, they hate this fucking nation

And I do too

Except for my beloved Varesa whom I love very much ❤️ ♥️

Thats honestly why I want or wanted my Golden City = Night Kingdom theory to be true

At least it would mean they're not completely over with the nation.

There's still the name in the Pyro Gemstone description and the Natlan nail to be explained I guess

[slender haven]

I don't really watch lore tubers but sure

[ashen ocean]

Yuri in the lore

[ashen ocean]

I thin they are saving the big shots for Mare

[frigid lily]

Mare is just going to be 69420 hours of Mavuika glazing

I just want the fucking name in the Pyro gemstone description man

Just give me that and I will be happy

[ashen ocean]

Would you be happy if Mare leads to Natlantea ?

[frigid lily]

I don't really care about Natlantea lore tbh

Doesn't have Seelies in it

Unrelated

[ashen ocean]

what if it gave some

[frigid lily]

Perfect number

[ashen ocean]

how even

[frigid lily]

I don't think it will

[frigid lily]

I saved a little bit

I only care about 4 things right now:

Seelie lore, which we got in the new Skirk set which is mega pog
The name in the Pyro Gemstone description
The nail in the Night Kingdom
What the hell they're going to do with Capitano

[ashen ocean]

Also the confirmation that the PO was a homophobe

Was Natlantea alive after cataclysm ?

or was it a past kingdom mentioned by Rene

[frigid lily]

We know too little
But it was an old kingdom, same age as Hyperborea and Remuria possibly

Some world quest leaks are claiming that it was a civilization before PO even came to Teyvat
Which is insane and I personally don't believe it
But I guess it would have big implications if so

[frigid lily]

I'm thinking

The whole like

Thing about the outlander posessing someone from Teyvat

In the first book where we learned about the outlander and the Seelie

We know that both of them lost their memories

That makes me wonder about the person the outlander posessed or whatever

Like how does that work then

And if the outlander was a descender which, obviously they were but there's still an incredibly slim chance they were just an alien

Does them possesing that guy make the guy a descender or like
I don't know I'm overthinking it its just its something to note I feel

[ashen ocean]

Wait for 5.5 to drop

[frigid lily]

5.5 doesn't have any new archon quests

[ashen ocean]

But it does have WUK

We havent gotten quest data yet

He could tell us about the third and second descenders

He likely is

[frigid lily]

We have

[ashen ocean]

Wait when

Today ?

[frigid lily]

Its been leaked for a while now
I haven't read it or know where to find it but I know its out because some people have been discussing it

Honey impact I think
Idk where to find it, I just know its out

[ashen ocean]

Okay

Yeash i cant find it on Honeyimpact

[frigid lily]

Then idk homdgcat probably

Also

Unrelated to wq stuff

If Surtalogi is asking Skirk to look for the 2nd descender wouldn't it imply they're alive

Or something like it

If we go by the theory that they are the prince of light

Then at the end one of the pygmies buried their body under a tree

But then it makes me wonder once again, was it the body of the descender itself or of the boy they possesed

It said that the prince's broken soul cast a curse on the pygmies

Which is interesting as well

[ashen ocean]

there is also the issue
if they are the second descender then the pygmies cannot be the sinners , and vice versa

[ashen ocean]

or if they 2nd descender was ther seelie + the Descender girl or possessed boy

[ashen ocean]

its not anywhere

The quest stuff isnt out
except screenshots

[frigid lily]

Tbh I never believed the pygmies = the sinners thing
It always felt like a stretch to say that the 6th pygmie was Dainsleif, at least to me

[ashen ocean]

IMO both explanations can be valid but exclusive of the other

the third explanation i have heard was from you i believe, that the pymies were stand ins for the nails

[frigid lily]

To be fair, the Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies could be a metaphor for multiple stories, not just one
Idk if this makes sense, but history in Teyvat always sort of "repeats" itself, so maybe the pygmies could be the sinners in this current samsara
But there could have been multiple pale princesses and light princes and pygmies throughout Teyvat's history
The book doesn't record one specific event is what I'm trying to say

[ashen ocean]

i get you

we really need potential samsara occurrences to be recorded now

[frigid lily]

Can someone tell me what the hell is a memokeeper

People keep mentioning that under skirk artifact set lore

[ashen ocean]

where is it mentioned

[frigid lily]

Its not mentioned anywhere in the artifact lore but people keep saying that the 2nd descender is a memokeeper and I have no fucking clue what that means

[ashen ocean]

oh that
she was nibelung's friend and recorded stories of countless worlds in that short passage describing her and him

[frigid lily]

So a memokeeper is someone who records stories of worlds basically?

[ashen ocean]

yeah

Updated descs are out on Homdgcat

Tldr:

There was an entity that travelled through the cosmos in an eternal state of meditation, with the job of charting and documenting any civilizations that are destined to perish.

This entity finds a tiny world in the edge of the Galaxy, and in that world she saw a radiant light and will that rivaled any civilization.

She broke her own duty and spoke with the source of this light, which was dragon king Nibelung, the ruler of all dragons and Teyvat.

She told Nibelung that his world was fated to destruction one day, and proposed that he left this world behind and travelled with her beyond the cosmos.

The kind and gentle dragon king refused, stating that while the outlander may these beings as insignificant, they were everything to him.

the outlander left, and once she returned, the world was changed.

The bright light of the world was gone, fragmented into seven hues, and the proud king of dragons was replaced by a Winged God and its four shades, shining below the three moons.

The outlander didn't wish to engage with the usurper, so she instead possessed a young boy in a golden city, and approached the first angel.

The young boy asked the first angel the secrets of the world and of creation, and in that moment, the angel's shackles were broken, no longer bound to the control of the heavenly principles.

They got married, and planned a rebellion against the divine

The young boy had star shaped pupils(maybe the origin of Khaenriah)

The angel wanted to make all beings in the world equal to the gods above, and she gave the power of creation to the citizens of the golden city.

The heavenly principles became aware of the planned rebellion, and cast down a divine nail on the city, plunging it into an eternal blizzard.

The first angel and its kin were cursed by Celestia to never again fall in love with humans, and their bodies devolved, becoming seelies.

found this on reddit

[frigid lily]

I'm honestly more interested in the boy the descender posessed if anything, since it had star shaped eyes

[ashen ocean]

He was there to let Hoyo avoid a direct Lebanon couple

[frigid lily]

Ok but I don't care about that I just want to know how the whole posession thing works and whats his relation to Khaenri'ah

[ashen ocean]

Ig this is a hint to the star eyes not necessarily being hereditary

Men of Lithlin has this weird enlightenment thing going on

Perhaps whoever is enlightened has the star shaped eyes and is step one in freeing them from Heavenly Principles binds maybe ?

Another issue is the boy’s whereabouts

Seelie either married the boy or the traveller

But if the Boy and Khaenriah connection is true he either has to survive the Heavenly Principles, or whatever gave him the star shaped eyes was given to others of the Golden City as well

[frigid lily]

This is what I want to know

Assuming pale princess is indeed a metaphor for the Seelie story

At the end, the Prince's broken soul cursed the pygmies

But also the prince was hidden in a tree hole or whatever

Is the prince the boy, or the traveler

Because like, the prince is going to be revived apparently

[ashen ocean]

I think we shouldnt ask for the boys whereabouts but for this memokeeper instead

[frigid lily]

Idk I'm more interested to know about this random guy who got posessed by a descender honestly

[ashen ocean]

Her tale automatically reveals more of the seelie lore
Plus the moon sisters

And the eventual war

[ashen ocean]

Buried at the roots of irminsul ?

Or within irminsul

[frigid lily]

Maybe

[ashen ocean]

Which reminds me

Nibelung could have taken this boy’s body

Buried him under irminsul

And cemented the abyss into teyvat

[frigid lily]

Fuck it maybe Capiiiiiiiiiiiiiajahakkllkkabelekeeee

Sorry

Ferret

My ferret stepped on the keyboard

[ashen ocean]

Lmao

Have to give them space to inspect for a bit on their whims

But an issue with that pitch is that Nibelung was decimated by the sky reavers

So Unless he kidnaps this boy and heads below the world

There is also the spread of abyssal power across teyvat with nibelung

[slender haven]

The popular theory is that it was the OG Ajax who our Ajax was named after

[frigid lily]

I don't think thats the case

[slender haven]

Yeah but I'm just saying it's an option

[frigid lily]

OG Ajax seems to have come afterwards
Because OG Ajax fell into the Golden City apparently

[slender haven]

And fell into the Abyss too

According to Narzissenkreuz

[ashen ocean]

But this boy is too ancient to OG Ajax too

[frigid lily]

Yeah

[slender haven]

I was more thinking that the third paragraph was after a flashback to the past not the present
Because it mentions divine priestesses roaming the Earth when the city was already a ruin when Skirk found it

[slender haven]

Mhm

[ashen ocean]

Lesbians being a crime under the Heavenly Principles lowkey makes a bit of sense if you look back

[frigid lily]

Fair

[slender haven]

The HP just hate to see girl bosses finding loving genderfluid spouses

[ashen ocean]

Yep

Homophobia is one of teyvats laws

[slender haven]

The Outlander themselves were bi since they were down bad for Nibelung

[ashen ocean]

Pan, if you really wanna think about it

[slender haven]

Technically

[ashen ocean]

What sort of gender exists in an abundant utopian dragon society

[slender haven]

Male and female I guess
Since Apep was called a she back in the Remuria quests

[ashen ocean]

Ubah Kan was upset when his son broke his late son in law’s laws

[ashen ocean]

Scylla is likely NB as its a female name

[slender haven]

He was more upset Och-Kan didn't melt the country into a pile of goop
Understandable, fuck Natlan

[slender haven]

You know how many female characters in this game have names associated with men?

[ashen ocean]

Disnt ubah kan still like humans around then

[ashen ocean]

Tell

[slender haven]

Yeah but he was asking Och-Kan for the other entreaty

[slender haven]

Beelzebul, Buer, and Focalors

Syclla is male I'm pretty sure

[ashen ocean]

He wanted the entreaty to give humans a shock course in phlogiston swimming

Is it ?

[slender haven]

Seems like it

[ashen ocean]

Reverse Fontaine where dragon wants to flood the nation to cleanse the original sins

[slender haven]

Waxaklahun is just nega-Neuvi if you think about it

[ashen ocean]

Scylla is a female name
Scylla is sister to Charybdis from the greek mythos and was a cliff dwelling monster
We missed Paimon too lmao

King Paimon

[slender haven]

Paimon is clearly non-binary then

There is no evidence refuting this

[ashen ocean]

Cranky pyromaniac dragon vs demure hydrophillic dragon

[ashen ocean]

But she strictly only uses she / her

[slender haven]

I meant Scylla the game character was male

[ashen ocean]

Oh mb

True

[slender haven]

And Scylla uses only he/him
See where I'm getting at?

[slender haven]

Both are daddies too