#・lore-basement

1 messages · Page 47 of 1

thick oyster
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Also whose the god of light?

vivid wasp
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Fuckass bitch

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I don't even like Neuvilette either but the enemy of my enemy is my friend

thick oyster
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Hm oh yeah

vivid wasp
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We don't know for 100% certain
We thought Natlantea was just another word for Natlan

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Yes, and I'm very curious about that

thick oyster
vivid wasp
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I mean, kind of like Remuria and Hyperborea no?

thick oyster
thick oyster
vivid wasp
thick oyster
vivid wasp
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Hmm

thick oyster
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Which was the capital of Xiuhcoatl's Natlan as a whole

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The capital of Inazuma is "Inazuma City" after all

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No he was going to end himself with Phlogiston

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Not Abyss

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Mondstadt? Mondstadt city

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Yes that

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Only when he first awakened

vivid wasp
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Oh yeah and also Pre-Raiden Inazuma lore, I'm also interested in that
I know we got a bit of that in the Temple of Space apparently, but like I want more on what Inazuma was before it was Inazuma, like before it became an island

thick oyster
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I don't recall that

thick oyster
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Hm I wouldn't know where it is

vivid wasp
thick oyster
vivid wasp
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Well yes, but it wasn't just Delphi on the surface
There's a domain description in Inazuma that hints at like, Inazuma being a desert with a Tyrant who wanted to worship the Irminsul tree or whatever

thick oyster
vivid wasp
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There's also this

image0.jpg
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The spiral abyss is basically just a tower of babel reference no

brave marten
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bro

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I saw this

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and genuinely fuck yeah we need a murder mystery quest on the trains

brave marten
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I beg of you hoyo make Snezhnaya peak

queen prawn
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but tbh it woul be too easy

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so it more logical we gonna get ambush in the train

frank wolf
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Right, there's still Hroptatyr "The Wise." We know nothing about him except being the genius of the Five Sinners... but haven't we heard his voice amongst the chessboard meeting of the five?

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Hroptatyr's voice is most definitely not the same as Pierro's.

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I thought Dain has it. We could fight him at the end of the journey.

worldly rain
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Wdym? We know the sinners power were taken from sibling and skirk sq talks about dividing it into 6 parts
5 sinners and finally the last one left is the og aka sibling
That's logical conclusion unless some weird shit happens

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There's dain too but...

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I was basing that on 6 pygmy theory now I'm not sure about "hidden" sinner anymore

worldly rain
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no i meant if the power of sibing was divided into 6 parts and 5 of them were taken then obviously the 6th part is left with them only otherwise they wouldn't have any powers left if all of it was taken which isn't the case

worldly rain
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I don't think so as it was told that sinners took the power from sibling so it has to be sibling not irmin

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Possible yeah

thick oyster
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Or he's secretly Hroptatyr's duel personality or some shit
Unlikely but there's going to be some kind of twist with him

worldly rain
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Pierro real identity is probably the vice chancellor Vik (or whatever the name was) who didn't agree with Hroptytr

thick oyster
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Irmin didn't take it from the Sibling per say
They just used the Sibling as a channeling device for the Abyss into him

thick oyster
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Eftirvit

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Well Rhinedottir is an asshole so

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She's probably jealous that Eftirvit and Hroptatyr both are higher ranked than her

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Well her personality did change a little after fusing with Naberius

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Hm

worldly rain
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Haden: Yes, we knew that the great Abyssal power within (‍her‍/‍him‍) had been divided up...

A_smolhutao

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Where? I don't remember
The main quest dialogue says it was split from sibling

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Irmin could have just taken his own abyss powers

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They both went underground after all

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When it comes to lore and main quest I'll trust main quest over lore

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Until something changes of course

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Yeah but that could just be abyss not sibling related which sinners took from them

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Well they did break the cycle so there's that yes

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Well I guess we'll just have to wait then
For now one thing is confirmed it's that the sinners took the powers that was divided from sibling
As for Irmin well guess we're waiting for more info then

thick oyster
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They aren't willingly working with Vedrfolnir
Vedrfolnir isn't directly working with or ordering the Abyss Order. He's only indirectly guding them.

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I belive it's said when Dainsleif tells us about the Sinners for the first time

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The servants of the Abyss Order do but we don't know if the Sibling does

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It was made in Vedrfolnir's image

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Yeah he also mentions Irmin there

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It's in an "inversion" of the god of freedom too

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So they are rejecting the "freedom" bestowed by the gods in exchange for the "freedom" of the Abyss

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And the ruins are of Lang-Gan, a moon worshiping civilization

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It carries a variety of meanings

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This is just one of them

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Also we still don't know what tf happened to Zhiqiong 😭

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It is?

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The NK glider is very confusing as a whole

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And The Tsar's death

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Yes a friend told me about that

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Maybe it's a metaphor for PO inverting Nibelung's original tree?

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Or something

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But how do we know it's the PO per say? They also sound abyssal

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I just meant I already know the reference bruh

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No he did I think

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Irminsul and Nibelung are both Nordic words

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Or Germanic I mean

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Who else could it be though?

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Could be a similar situation to Egeria
Rukk isn't the first she's just the first celestial creation

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Yeah....
Could be that PO is leeching off the world in some way to restore itself

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Then the "new tree" could be an inversion of the old

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Maybe Phanes burned the old tree like what Dottore is going to do

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Or was there?

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We don't even know what the inversion truly means

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Yeah I thought so

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Hm

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So this Irminsul is presumably the same as what the dragons had

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Or

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PO did something to the tree

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She barely mentions anything to Nahida

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Apep mainly wanted to talk about how she got corrupted

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That's just about the old world in general

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Yes but she didn't want too

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She hates humans and the gods and wouldn't really want to talk to them

vivid wasp
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That's what I think too

thick oyster
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But Ley Lines were from the dragon era

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We know this and you agreed iirc

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And Ley Lines are Irminsul's roots

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Let Lines are Irminsul's roots

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Not with roots though

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Only with branches

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So there was an old Irminsul tree

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Then

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That had the Ley Lines

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No

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One with the dragons

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There has to be

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99% of everything the Human Realm has was stolen from the Dragons

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This description mentions "a tree"

image.png
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Yes

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Hm?

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Yes

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Yes

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That's about the Travelers saving the universe and Teyvat from abyss I guess

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But who tf is "the golden lion"

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That's what I'm most confused about

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So it's Phanes

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"The "universe" stands firm"

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But the silver tree sprouts twice

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And one is from the Travelers
So who was the first?

vivid wasp
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Fischl's father is a metaphor for the PO?

thick oyster
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But they're mostly the same?

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Hm

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I think it means that the Travelers might regrow Irminsul

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No.

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They were in stasis most of it

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Twin was recovered in Khaenri'ah

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Yes, with the Aranara at least

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And Dain

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Also they were in Asmoday's zoo for a bit

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Yes
And the Traveler was never there

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In the zoo I mean

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Asmoday was probably always working against PO

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For a while at least

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She only left the temple 500 years ago

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She could have been like Istaroth
Working against PO behind the scenes

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But how else do you explain her giving the Travelers different treatments?

vivid wasp
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I mean
Because one Traveler is a descender and the other not...?

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Idk

thick oyster
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Also I got a theory on why the Sibling isn't a descender

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Exactly
We don't know

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There's something greater going on here

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Yeah that's where she fully broke away

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But Istaroth was also always against Phanes too

vivid wasp
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And there's also Venti's introduction voiceline being hella suspicious to this day

thick oyster
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Asmoday's Scions prayer was completely redacted too remember?

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She's always been weird

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Perhaps because it contains info about her

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Asmoday might have something to do with the Moons
Since Istaroth was the "protector" of the "4" moons

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So that could relate to why it was redacted

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Idk

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The existence of the Watchers implies she wanted to be as great as the PO

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But she fell short

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She was always just one part of a greater whole

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Like Radagon to Marika

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Kinda

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Yes, Asmoday could have been like Ronova
Only a follower out of fear/resignation

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Until the Sibling or whoever convinced her otherwise

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Traveler, Capitano, and Asmoday destroying Celestia

latest.png
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Yeah sorry
Dainsleif, Capitano, and Asmoday destroying Celestia

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Damn,
Dainsleif, Capitano, and Pierro destroying Celestia

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Male king is a kind and good ruler
Hands over responsibilities to three women
They immediately fuck everything up
What did John Hoyoverse mean by this?

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I seriously can't wait till Hyperborea comes out and the Voyager is portrayed as a good guy

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It'll be so funny

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I get ragebaited so hard by them it's actually unhealthy

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Only failed because Xbalanque was a celestial lapdog

vivid wasp
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She still possesed the body of a random kid to bang an angel
Idc what positive thing she does

thick oyster
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Yeah

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It is a weird plot point

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There's definitely missing info there

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I can feel it

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Whose that in this case?

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Yeah, really don't think Hoyoverse would do that

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Something more is happening

vivid wasp
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I don't think Hoyoverse will care about victims of male assault

thick oyster
vivid wasp
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But I get what you mean

thick oyster
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But yeah you know what I mean

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It's in the manga

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Or some aritifical creation maybe

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Since he had stars in his eyes

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Also they would hold a festival where essentially the nobility could have their pick of women

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No they were always like that

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It's not mentioned they changed

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But if he was pre-existing then yeah they probably changed

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Yeah, feels like we're missing info

vivid wasp
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Still
I don't think Hoyoverse is going to acknowledge the fact that it is assault
And most people won't give a damn either
Everytime I bring this point up people will say "well actually that plot point is just there because Hoyoverse would get censored for having a queer couple"
But its a stupid fucking plot point anyways, and I doubt that they would be censored for having a sort of niche background lore character who we probably won't meet be queer
Otherwise Jeht would have been removed from the game already

thick oyster
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Wait she was gay?

vivid wasp
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Where is it said that the unnamed youth got their star shaped eyes after possesion

image0.jpg
thick oyster
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Looking at the wiki article it doesn't mention anything

vivid wasp
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Yeah, thats my point
So why do they have to have this weird ass plot point about the possesion
I mean its probably going to amount to something but its still weird as fuck and I hate it

thick oyster
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Iiirc some years back there was an event that had a girl write a valentine's letter to Jean

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Lol

vivid wasp
thick oyster
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But how we don't know

vivid wasp
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I don't see how any of those screenshots prove that

thick oyster
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She had that reaction cause of the Voyager in him

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I doubt she would have seen every human in her kingdom before

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Yeah but the Voyager's pressence is what shocked her

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It was the main thing not the eyes

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It was to link the boy to Khaenri'ah probably

vivid wasp
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Justice for the kid, Seuter and Koitar can both go rot in hell

thick oyster
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They're searching for Seutervoinen not her vessel

vivid wasp
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Isn't Seutervoinen a fucking like
Octopus creature though

thick oyster
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They could still be looking for her

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No it isn't

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She was there as a spirit

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When she talked to Nibelung

vivid wasp
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Was she?

thick oyster
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But then how did she commincate with Nibelung?

vivid wasp
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Well I wasn't implying that but maybe she came in her true form

thick oyster
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Yes and that's what Surtalogi is looking for

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Her spirit

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Wasn't a ship

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It's just a vessel containing her body

vivid wasp
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Leaked Seutervoinen design reveal

SPOILER_1750176944337.png
thick oyster
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I wanted to um actually you

thick oyster
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He would've died

vivid wasp
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Idk why the reddit thing popped up

thick oyster
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No

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They didn't

vivid wasp
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If
We are to assume pale Princess is a metaphor for Koitar and Seutervoinen
Which I believe it to be so
Then the boy and Seutervoinen is the Light Prince
Meaning they could be hidden in Irminsul

thick oyster
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Yes

thick oyster
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Abyss

vivid wasp
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Phanes, duh

thick oyster
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It's always Abyss

vivid wasp
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Could be the six pygmies

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Uh
I don't know??
I'm not aware of Changeling/Nod-Krai/Snezhnaya lore whatsoever so

thick oyster
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Want spoilers for something?

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Leaks

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Yeah that's fair

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Son.

vivid wasp
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Uh I have no fucking clue what you're talking about explain please

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Oh k

thick oyster
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No not Nibelung

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Disasters

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Because they thought Nibelung was associated with disasters after the Funerary Year

worldly rain
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It was pygmies not changeling
And changeling is not even any specific kind of fae anymore it's just name used for fae who have been interchanged by human baby at birth

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Even for ajax we don't know what kind of fae pakkusuika was now...

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Speaking of Ajax and light prince they do have similarities but also multiple differences
I'm sure one of those aspect do match but then it could be that pale princess story is just combination of multiple people

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I think ajax is just like gunhildr/knight of boreus...a name/title shared by multiple people across history
With og being the 3rd descender

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That would explain multiple legends

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Jack Frost are the furthest from looking like human they are the first one to cross out...

Pakkuisuika was a changeling remember meaning he replaced human baby and took their place at birth...

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Its not about reproduction it's about appearance

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Lumi is jack Frost we know how they look

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They're not human like at all C_TaoHehe

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We'll see in snezhnaya but I'm 90% sure it's not jack Frost

thick oyster
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All pure elemental beings can

worldly rain
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Fae at birth replaced by human babies aka changeling...
Yeah I'm sure they're so pure that not even one months old baby fae changes their appearance to look like human
Not even linnea could do that but pakkusuika must've done so I guess C_TaoHehe

thick oyster
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I mean the name implies they might just be birds

worldly rain
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There's no learning here

thick oyster
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Random idea I just had
Imagine if we got Nibelung's full design in Nicole's character teaser
Unlikely but could you imagine?

thick oyster
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Hm

worldly rain
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And had to hide that it was only when she was little and her wings hadn't grown that her human parents were duped

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Alright we can just wait C_TaoHehe

thick oyster
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Yeah probably but her lore links to him

worldly rain
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There are two mention of jack Frost so far none have human description

thick oyster
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Her into mentions him I mean

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It didn't fail

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The rebellion caused his return

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Doesn't say their rebellion failed

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Also it's just a fairy tale retelling and not literal for what happened

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They fled after Nibelung returned

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That's why they tried to make Saarelainen

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And succeeded

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The timeline is unclear

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He's probably immortal so he could have gotten cut up years after the Funerary Year

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He could have been like 1234 when he died

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Maybe he was a baby

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Or still being made

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He was reborn as an infant

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Assuming he's Ajax

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Yes

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But there were other factors

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He was made to "merge with the world"

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There were survivors

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Also the Abyss was there

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To be fair

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No we literally see it in a flashback

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The rebellion lasted until the Funerary Year

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No it wasn't

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It happened during the Funerary Year

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No it was Hyperborea

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They say so

worldly rain
thick oyster
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Well both were overrun

worldly rain
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I doubt it

thick oyster
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Avrelian's spine was carried around

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No his spine too

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To attack the Abyss

worldly rain
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Both are same place
It's used interchangeably

thick oyster
worldly rain
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Yes and it's deep under the frozen ice too

thick oyster
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We see it in the Archon Quest

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Still Hyperborea

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And it happened before Funerary Year

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So Hyperborea was crushed some time during Funerary Year

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Yes

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Because Hyperborea was around in the Funerary Year

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It was only crushed after

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Besides the Archon Quest

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Also because it had Abyss in it

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Still means Hyperborea existed during the Funerary Year

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Alright

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So the rebellion hadn;t failed yet

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Sure

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Phanes shot themselves in the ass by cursing all the Angels though

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And Nibelung taking the Moons wouldn't help

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They may have had to fight against Nibelung too
Since Seuter didn't like the Abyss

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Phanes, Nibelung, and Voyager

worldly rain
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Canon helped the remnant of hyperborea aka frostmoon scion
This alone is proof enough that rebellion ended before funery war as canon was dead after the war ended

thick oyster
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Canon is just the only one who lasted long enough

worldly rain
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Oh right I forgot about that mb

thick oyster
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Some people survived the nail drop

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So she saved those guys

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We see it in the flashback

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When the gang are exploring Hyperborea past to try and find Columbina's name

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It's during when we see the Nibelung and Three Moons murals

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There are always some survivors

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Dragonspine had some survivors
Tsurumi had some survivors

worldly rain
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That's assuming that people wouldn't have vacated before which they did

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Those who remained got nuked though

thick oyster
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Not all of them

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lemme get the screenshots

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Here

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The Moons are dead (post Funerary Year) + Hyperborean

worldly rain
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Hyperborean not hyperborea
They left the og place it got destroyed
They are the remnant saved by canon

thick oyster
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They had this place

worldly rain
# thick oyster

The palace sunk underground the frozen sea
I'm sure the kingdom was big enough that some place survived the nail
You can see the debris as well it's not in perfect condition

thick oyster
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Looks like Enkanomiya ngl

worldly rain
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That's because the architecture of unified civilization was the same

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They look very similar to each other

thick oyster
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Yeah

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I more meant the general darkness surrounding it all

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And ambiance

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Only the girls got antlers though
Sexist fuck

worldly rain
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I'm guessing voyager helped Nibelung get out of the void sea
Probably sent signals or coordinates of teyvat to him

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the real reason for PO nuking them C_TaoHehe

thick oyster
worldly rain
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No assumptions

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Oh you asked nvm

thick oyster
worldly rain
thick oyster
worldly rain
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"Hello this is voyager I asked you to leave teyvat with me did you decide yet?.. "

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Nibelung be like "bitch I'm stuck in void sea what do you want from me?.. " A_WheezeTao

lilac coral
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He made people and people make cocaine and meth so by extension, yes

vivid wasp
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He's got that "I tried assaulting my own wife" aura that Phanes doesn't have yet

brave marten
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cz Phanes has no wife otherwise he'd have done that like he did it to everyone else

thick oyster
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Like a fraud

vivid wasp
thick oyster
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Uh

vivid wasp
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Anyways how are you all in this fine Sunday

thick oyster
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Good

vivid wasp
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I'm bored out of my mind personally

thick oyster
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Yeah I know that feeling

vivid wasp
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True

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Explain

vivid wasp
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Ah ok, I haven't read the chess boss material

thick oyster
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Not specifically from my Rerir prediction
It's just a thing from alchemy

vivid wasp
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Hmm

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There's also Sophia and Christ who are in Gnosticism a "Syrgzy" aka male and female emanation of God
Notably in Genshin a Syrgzy has to do with the Moon Sister stuff
Sophia is also referred to as the "Bride of the Lamb" but the bride title isn't meant to be literal, it's just a metaphor for the church

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Oh yeah, you're right, but I just mean that the spellings are very similar, lol.

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The lamb is meant to represent Christ/Jesus.

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Is that like mentioned anywhere in game lol.

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?

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Logos is PO's symbol in the artifacts, right?

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Wdym

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Ah

thick oyster
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Hymns doesn't say he

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Barbra has crosses on her clothes

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This means crucifixion is canon

vivid wasp
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Jean also has crosses as earrings

thick oyster
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"God of gender unknowable"

vivid wasp
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That's reaching I feel

thick oyster
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King is gender neutral in Genshin
Both Rukk and Nabu are called kings in Genshin

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Those two and Deshret were known as the "three kings" when they ruled together

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Femboys are sins against God confirmed

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That's why Barbatos is the Archon closest to the demiurge Phanes

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Well he seemed to have some in with the Shades in general

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The only one who comes close is Zhongli and he doesn't have any Shade temples in his territory that we know of

vivid wasp
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Hih
Where is lucifer mentioned in genshin
Or are we talking about koitar

thick oyster
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Fraud doesn't even have her temple in his land

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Venti is everyone's favorite child

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Yeah

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The Nameless Bard somehow took Istaroth's power on his own too

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Shocking even her

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The Asmostein files

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No he wanted to prevent Decarabien's power from exploding everyone
And he did it

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I think he wanted to sacrifice himself
Or knew that he would have to

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No

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Where is it stated

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Yep

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It also killed him

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Getting exploded by time powers doesn't sound particularly pleasant

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Yeah

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He did die but his identity was lost

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Winds carried by time or whatever the phrase was

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"his body fell"
That's how you describe someone who died

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And the artifact set

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He died

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His name got removed from history

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And now only Venti remembers him fully

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Well Istaroth has partial control over it as a Shade

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The name "Venti" might be the Nameless' name for all we know

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Istaroth didn't know he took his powers

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No they just now associate it with Barbatos' identity

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She wouldn't really care since the Bard died soon after
The price was paid

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Ronova was punished for making the Night Kingdom

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Yeah but I meant his human bard identity

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And Xbalanque was kept secret by her

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Istaroth prevented his story from being carried

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Death of a name

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He did die physically

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No it did

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"Stories brought on the wind will bloom into legends in due time."

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Without time the story never bloomed

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Only Ronova can grant immortality like that

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He was a peasant living in Decarabien's city

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It did reach the tree it was just left hidden and unknown

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Venti does

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Because he took on his appearance

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Istaroth's power just effected the surface

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Yes

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But he is still left behind in some way in descriptions and stories

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It's only his name itself

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Unlike Rukkhadevata

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The Bard is still there

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To an extent

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They're both removed from history to an extent

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Yes because Irminsul was directly impacted

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Idk much about Gnosticism

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Yeah

vivid wasp
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I could see it being the case, I've seen some theories about it

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But right now, the main theory I have is that Capitano is Jesus and Sophia is going to be whoever the name in the Pyro Gemstone is
And that the Demiurge is Mavuika/the Pyro Archons
But it is a very massive crack theory

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Well, when I say Mavuika is the Demiurge, I don't mean she is the the Demiurge, just like, Natlan's Demiurge
Phanes can still turn out to be the real Demiurge

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My understanding from just reading on wikipedia is that
Sophia tried to do something without her Syzygy, or in some other myths she was trying to understand the Monad, but she failed, was about to die(?), and the fear of her own death causes the material world and the Demiurge to be created
The Demiurge creates the physical world, but before Sophia is banished she secretly infuses a "spiritual spark" (pneuma) into his world

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The spiritual spark I believe will definetely tie back to the Allogenes and vision users.

Screenshot_20260426_133954_Samsung_Browser.jpg
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Yes, but, in the context of Natlan
The Natlanese when they die, go to the Night Kingdom, not Celestia
So I think the spark is for the Natlanese to be able to ascend to Godhood without being tied by Celestia, does that make sense?
In comparison, Venessa ascended to Celestia, but Venti sees it as a bad thing
Now, idk how that ties into Demiurge Mavuika, but I have a feeling that Mavuika's plan is to change those rules of Natlan with the Archons?

#

But, the Demiurge is said to be unaware of Sophia, and what she put into his physical world, so Mavuika will do it unintentionally as a mistake, idfk

ebon iris
#

did i hear alchemical marriage

#

damn nvm its all the way up there

thick oyster
#

No.

vivid wasp
#

D*ttore mains don't deserve rights

thick oyster
vivid wasp
#

Anyways, I don't have a lot to add
Sophia's name literally translating to "Gnosis" is also interesting

#

Be insufferably annoying

#

God I wanna get the new Tomodachi life so fucking badly but I don't have a switch 2

#

Yeah 😔

#

Yeah

#

Well, actually

Screenshot_20260426_140442_Gallery.jpg
#

Well, ok
When talking about the Spiritual world and Irminsul, my mind immediately goes back to the moon palaces and how souls used to originally go there
I have a feeling, that maybe, Irminsul might be burnt down, so the original Moon Palace can be rebuilt???

#

Not trying to paint Zantinydik as a good guy here though

#

But I do have something to say in regards to the moon palace, and that has to do with the boatman in Inazuma

#

Well, the Boatman mentions a "Lady of the Golden Hall" with the Golden Hall being the moon palace
And he's there to gather the souls of the Tsurumi Island people
We know from some new dialogue in the temple of space that there were multiple "boatmans" and that they would all be tasked with bringing souls to the moons
The Boatman doesn't seem to acknowledge the fact that souls now go to Irminsul though, he still mentions the moon palace.
So could the moon palace still be "alive" and functioning in some way? And who is this Lady anyways? I don't think she'd be one of the moon sisters, especially if we assume that somehow the moon palace is still "alive"
There's also the Schwanenritter Knights from Khaenri'ah, and how one of them has the title of "Sentinel of the Golden Hall", but I don't have much to add about that, but its worth mentioning

#

Tsurumi Island did have a weird time warp thing going on
So maybe that could be why the Boatman was confused

#

Yes, why?

#

Yes I know

#

Idk
Where did Dragon's souls go before the Moon Palaces came to me?

worldly rain
#

Does it matter though...

#

A topic forgotten since neuvellette...

#

Actually wait pyro also was trying to but it failed

#

Yeah nvm...

worldly rain
#

@odd thicket did you talk with the writer that has ??? as name on top of library in new map? Who're they?

#

Where was this info? I didn't find anything about it...

#

Yes with ??? as name

#

I'll send later then not playing right now...

thick oyster
#

Also the Moon Palace could be outside of time in some way like the Moon's reflection is I'm guessing

#

Lauma got her's at birth

#

I'm finally playing through the Temple of Space btw

#

It's pretty good

#

Yeah

thick oyster
thick oyster
#

...Like the Apathetic Interval in the Temple sort of...

#

But condensed

#

Khaenri'ah may have been a "blind spot" in some way

#

That's my theory

#

Because Dain said the gods' gaze didn't fall there

#

It was similar to it but not identical

#

Yeah but maybe they wanted to avoid getting strong ambitions to be free of fate/visions

#

Remember what Rene said about visions?

worldly rain
thick oyster
#

Probably yeah

#

But it could have been a precaution

#

Maybe "dying" early freed them from fate in some way

#

We see Khaenri'ahn relics in the Temple

#

A field tiller at least

#

Still

#

We also don't see any Snezhnayan

#

Though that could just be limitations C_TaoHehe

#

Or were they truly? Well Vedrfolnir implies it I guess

#

But there is something odd

worldly rain
# thick oyster Just talk to him bro 🥀

I did it doesn't reveal his name nor what he's writing...
He just think we're some woman(forgot her name but you can find her below she's the former queen) and wants us to not disturb him
Kept talking until he gave us chest and that's it...

thick oyster
#

How fate works in Genshin is getting more and more mysterious

thick oyster
#

It isn't. It's pretty confusing

worldly rain
thick oyster
worldly rain
#

Uh no...i didn't see the puzzle

thick oyster
#

How could it still exist when Phanes is dormant?

#

Or why would they design everyone to rebel against it?

thick oyster
#

But fate is governed by the false sky

#

And constellations

#

But the False Sky is Asmoday's power

#

Yes I know

#

He became a tyrant to try and make humanity stronger for some grand purpose I forget

#

Also became a worm

#

I don't think PO is that though
They're the demiurge. They're unaware of how they're small in the grand picture

#

It's like the 4 stags of Yggsdrasil maybe

#

All 4 Shades are the 4 pillars of fate

#

In some way

#

No it just records things

worldly rain
#

I'm talking about this guy...also where's the puzzle?

Genshin_Impact_Screenshot_2026.04.27_-_10.17.20.74.png
thick oyster
#

Yeah I haven't gotten to him yet

worldly rain
thick oyster
#

I thought you were talking about someone else

worldly rain
thick oyster
#

That's because the "memories" of two Durins couldn't co-exist

#

Also speaking about the Ley Lines I found something interesting

worldly rain
#

No there's no puzzle here
His identity is left a mystery

#

You do get a chest if you keep pestering him though C_TaoHehe

thick oyster
#

But the false sky won't disappear when Irminsul does

#

So they have to be separate in some way

#

Where does it say that again?

worldly rain
#

No he says vindia it's the former queen of uh some place during remurian era

thick oyster
#

Btw I found something interesting

worldly rain
#

Let me qoute it..
She says she's queen of Uxellobrogi
She was puppet queen basically
Her kingdom surrendered to both Remurians and High king of Aremorica...

thick oyster
worldly rain
#

She calls people of Aremorcia barbarians C_TaoHehe

thick oyster
#

This description
Why tf does it say there "was" a tree that stretched to every corner of the world

image.png
#

It's a small detail but like, why

#

Also I just realized all the "Irminsul trees" are silver when the actual Irminsul we find is either pink or blue

worldly rain
#

Or the fact that PO modified the leylines

thick oyster
#

Maybe?

thick oyster
#

Also there are Ley Line sprouts near every Nail impact site

#

Or most of them at least

worldly rain
#

I have a theory but again it connect with greater imaginary tree lore of hoyo games...
Basically the og leylines of dragon era were branch of Imaginary tree
But that created a problem as now teyvat could be found by abyss along those branches

PO basically by making synthetic leylines cut off the connection of teyvat with Imaginary tree this made teyvat hidden from the approaching abyss

#

Untill the whole Nibelung Voyager episode where the location was then revealed and abyss came anyway

thick oyster
#

But the original dragon ley lines are still around partially, they're just "modified"

#

That doesn't really say the sky was completely destroyed though

#

Some holes probably would have formed

#

Cause the Sinners would have poked holes in it

#

Or at least Surtalogi did

#

Unclear

#

The Cataclysm only happened when the Sinners took their power

#

Yes and then the Sinners took it

#

I'm most confused about the time line placement of Rhine's kids though

#

Cause did she make them as a Sinner or before?

#

Only like half a day

#

The Cataclysm lasted an unclear amount of time too

worldly rain
#

Bakunawa literally tore her into two piece she wouldn't survive that if it was before becoming sinner...

#

Not to mention both bakunawa and durin appeared after cataclysm started

thick oyster
#

This?

thick oyster
worldly rain
#

Even rifthounds were said to start flooding teyvat after cataclysm started

thick oyster
#

👍

#

I imagine his death caused the Abys to explode out of him

#

Also it triggered the "traps" he laid around the kingdom

#

Used them as a channeling device

#

He probably intentionally died
Since how could a being as powerful as him be killed in combat by 5 normal dudes?

#

Oh yeah

#

Not nearly enough to defeat Irmin

#

Also not all of them

#

Most of his power would have been concentrated on keeping the wind wall up

#

Also Irmin is way above Decarabien

#

Two coughing babies vs hydrogen bomb

#

What was he doing

#

Not in a direct way

worldly rain
#

If you read durin story lore you'll understand what Rhine actually did with these creatures
See they are abyss consciousness lingering in the cosmos
What rhine did was bound these consciousness into her "creations" made out of alchemy

The combination of teyvat alchemical creation with consciousness of abyss is what led to these abyss monsters like durin/ bakunawa etc

thick oyster
#

Maybe he knew he had to die so that he could truly ascend

#

Like Ajax

#

He had to be reborn

#

So he let Dain "kill" him

thick oyster
#

Same with Elynas

worldly rain
#

So rhine might be working on her alchemical creation already before cataclysm but the binding of abyss consciousness only happened after she became sinner

thick oyster
#

Maybe the Abyss powers in the Sinners are his deadly selves

#

Idk

worldly rain
#

In short durin bakunawa etc couldn't possibly happen before cataclysm is what I'm implying

thick oyster
#

Well she made the Rift wolves before it

#

Since we see Rerir fight them

#

Also we know she fed the failed Albedos to Durin

worldly rain
#

Yeah rifthound were lesser consciousness and we know khanerriah already had apaosha in their lake so Rhine definitely had experimented with them before

Although the flooding of rifthound again only happened after cataclysm

#

It make sense though sinners power just magnified the scope of her ability

#

Yup for Rhine that's alchemy

worldly rain
#

Probably yeah
We have to keep in mind that events don't happen instantaneously after all
Coming to khanerriah from other nation itself would've taken much time for arhons not to mention preparation before going into "contaminated" area

#

Remember makoto only went to khanerriah when the "news" arrived... Who know show much time it took for the news to travel too

#

But definitely enough for sinners to leave the zone zero

#

I mean yeah signs were there but the scale wouldn't have been predictable

#

Otherwise they would've stopped it before it's occurance

thick oyster
#

She didn't fight it
Tenoch and the 6 heroes did

worldly rain
#

He did went inside the spiral abyss deep underground that's where he possibly died

vivid wasp
worldly rain
#

I doubt it's another

thick oyster
#

The world quest last survivor of Tenochzitoc doesn't mention her in the final conflict at all

worldly rain
#

It talks about king of fae who United the continent
That's literally Belyi Tsar

thick oyster
#

Also iirc they didn't want her to fight in the conflict because she was too valuable to die

worldly rain
#

Not really
Tsar is confirmed to die at khanerriah
Glider just add lore around that in lore way

thick oyster
#

It shows all the heroes were there
On the thrones with the weapons besides them

#

He had his own throne

#

If Mavuika was there she would have a throne

#

Yes

#

Because he led the conflict

worldly rain
#

The note from Reed quest I forgot his name the guy who was impersonating him...

thick oyster
#

She was

worldly rain
#

Yes that's the one

#

Brahe's notes

thick oyster
#

Talking Stick says Tenoch was the one who summoned them

#

The heroes

#

That Tenoch led to fight the Bakunawa

#

She was too valuable to die

#

He agreed to her plan to shove herself in the flame for 500 years

#

That's about it

#

That was after Bakunawa explosion killing Tenoch and Sanhaj

#

Last Survivor doesn't mention her

#

They would have been stretched thin

worldly rain
#

Baku was fought by 3 individual only Tenoch, Lord of Night and Sanhaj
Mav already got into sacred flame for future travel

thick oyster
#

It wasn't made by her
It was made by later archons who would've mentioned if she was there

#

Mavuika wasn't there

#

The trailer doesn't show the fight

#

There

#

Were

#

The ones who helped repress the Bakunawa

#

In the interim between Mavuika's first term and second term

worldly rain
#

Mav wasn't present during the fight otherwise it would be told she was there

thick oyster
#

No they did

#

The Bakunawa came afterwards

worldly rain
#

Game doesn't say any of that though

thick oyster
#

It doesn't.

#

That was in the interim before a new one emerged

#

There was no one immediately after Mavuika flamed herself

#

It doesn;t show the battle they had with the Bakunawa and whether or not Mavuika was there

#

No Tenoch and Sanhaj already sacrificed thenmselves

#

Yes

#

He was

#

He summoned them

#

He didn't have an ancient name though

worldly rain
#

Bakunawa could twist the time so his presence in time period of previous archon is not questionable
However after sanhaj tenoch killed him and venti blew mare jivari off the timeline there wouldn't be any other episode of him anymore

thick oyster
#

Well he got the biggest throne in the temple

#

Yes the ones after Mavuika first got flamed

#

Since they maintained the Bakunawa's seal

vivid wasp
#

These are from the Pyro Archon temple referring to like the battle with the Bakunawa

thick oyster
vivid wasp
#

Ah ok lol

thick oyster
#

They could only be in the interim

#

Bakunawa was sealed in Mavuika's term

#

Thee had to come after

#

Since they're maintaining Bakunawa's seal

#

Dumbass

#

There were

#

The temple mentions them

#

Bakunwas was AFTER Mavuika

worldly rain
#

The archon room that sealed the entrance to mare jivari area was made by multiple successive archons

thick oyster
#

Mavuika is Archon
Bakunawa is sealed
Other Pyro Archons maintain seal

#

That's the timeline

vivid wasp
#

Yeah, they even mention "Kiongozi has been gone for a decade" which likely refers to Mavuika probably

thick oyster
#

Isaja

#

Gloharry

vivid wasp
#

Cochanina

#

?

thick oyster
#

Yes.

#

It's a matter of inference
They could only come after her

#

Because the Bakunawa was first defeated in her reign

#

The temple was only made during her reign

vivid wasp
#

In the screenshot I sent

thick oyster
#

Last Survivor of Tenochzitoc

vivid wasp
thick oyster
#

In a subspace

#

Until someone became Archon again

#

Which they did

#

But they didn't enter the temple

#

The Archons in the temple maintained the seal

#

Because the Bakunawa happened under her

#

How do you not understand this

#

No it wouldn't

#

The Temple was made for the Cataclysm

#

That's why it has the thrones of the heroes and Tenoch

worldly rain
#

Stone Tablet: ...I cloak the Enigmatic Land, and shroud this palace...
Stone Tablet: ...only the legacy of heroes may awaken... — Shulevitz

Temple was likely built by this guy

thick oyster
#

Because the Temple was made in her era

#

It was after her

vivid wasp
#

Ehhh, I don't necessarily disagree...? I mean, I have my own theories on the Pyro Archons, but current evidence suggests that there did come Archons after her

thick oyster
#

No Tenoch and Sanhaj just exploded it

#

No because Bakunawa travels into the past before the seal

#

They didn't blow the Mare Jivari off the timeline

#

Yes during Mavuika's era

#

Only into the past
Not the present

worldly rain
#

Bakunawa's destruction across the timeline was the reason tenoch and the team decided to end him and venti seperated him across the time

#

Wanderer troup episode is just one part of his destruction

thick oyster
#

And then the Archons after Mavuika helped seal it

#

Keep it sealed

#

No there was no seal

#

Because the Temple wasn't made

#

Not the Temple that's modern

#

Because it's stuck in the Mare Jivari

#

Since it got blown off the timeline

worldly rain
#

No they scattered him into pieces and the area of mare jivari was sealed by venti
The real mare jivari was seperated by natlan through night kingdom that sanhaj summoned
Archons temple later was build to act as a seal for this night kingdom area

thick oyster
#

She just said it was in a pocket realm
Created by Sanhaj 500 years ago

worldly rain
#

Her suspicion around temple comes because the place was a secret known only by archons
She even says she'll ask mavuika about it later

#

Temple is not on the same space
It's in natlan only why would it travel to past?
Mare jivari is the place that's been thrown across time

thick oyster
#

That's why Enjou wants it

worldly rain
#

And temple was built only after baku was thrown across time by venti

#

It doesn't have a seal
The seal is for the fake mare jivari area aka mini night kingdom

#

And temple was build to act as that seal

#

Real mare is just gone from the time it doesn't exist in current time

#

That's not how it works
Venti didn't send it to some different time
He removed the space from time big difference here

#

It's like he took a page of a book and tore it off

#

No what you said implies taking page number 28 and fixing it to become page number 8 or something
Time traveling is still part of the book
Bakunawa was removed from the book itself

#

You said it's possible for someone 2k years ago to meet mare jivari not true is what I'm saying

#

Wanderer troupe episode happened when baku was still part of current time
I'm saying after he was sealed it's not possible for teyvat people to get into mare jivari anymore doesn't matter which time past or present

#

Why do you think enjou said only through flesh of bakunawa you can go to real mare jivari?

#

It's like moon prison you can't just go there...its different timespace all together

#

You need special powers

#

Maybe we can ask venti to do so for us I guess but enjou couldn't so he had to use baku flesh

#

Temporal disruption happened during cataclysm
Baku travelled across time during cataclysm
It was only after that it's power was known that they decided it was dangerous and venti got involved
So no wanderer troupe didn't happen after cataclysm it was during it

vivid wasp
vivid wasp
# worldly rain Temporal disruption happened during cataclysm Baku travelled across time during ...

I don't think the Bakunawa itself could have traveled to the past, as in outside the Mare Jivari it's just that people coming to the Mare Jivari from the past would have encountered it
If it was the case, then the remaining Mu-Natlans who didn't set for Mondstadt 1,000 years ago would have been dead already, no?
Because they were all killed in the Cataclysm when the Bakunawa was created.
I'm not good with time travel stuff, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

worldly rain
#

It was created to burst Baku from inside yes but nothing to do with enjou using Baku flesh to gain access to real mare

worldly rain
vivid wasp
worldly rain
#

To give an example imagine you're walking along the road and suddenly you start feeling heat and when you look around your environment is all lit up by flame and you see a big dragon in front of you
That's what happened with wanderer troupe more or like C_TaoHehe
The area where they were resting 2k years ago was the same space where Baku appeared 500 years ago
Two spacetime merged basically

#

In even more simple terms let's just say bakunawa can do what istoroth/venti can except it doesn't have brain and it's purely animal instinct A_WheezeTao

#

It can't control the powers

vivid wasp
worldly rain
#

Mare entha what?

#

What's that?

#

Oh this yeah but we got to see one where Bennett was no?

#

Area where his constellation was fixed

#

It was basically seeping into the teyvat spacetime

#

I bet enjou will do some shit which will let real mare back into teyvat or something
Ngl I was expecting this summer update to give real mare but now they ain't even releasing x.8 anymore A_HuPensive

vivid wasp
#

I don't check any Genshin reddit stuff

#

I mean, I just don't interact with the Genshin fandom anywhere aside from the wiki and this channel so no

worldly rain
#

You could've just said that in beginning C_TaoHehe
Instead we went on tangent and started talking about spacetime... A_WheezeTao

worldly rain
vivid wasp
#

End me now atp

worldly rain
#

Yeah but you said same timeline which made it confusing C_TaoHehe

thick oyster
vivid wasp
thick oyster
#

Also, idk if I told you already but this next part is some spoilers in case you want that

vivid wasp
thick oyster
thick oyster
vivid wasp
thick oyster
vivid wasp
thick oyster
#

Well, I was just saying in general that we got more lore

thick oyster
#

The magic space Columbina made

vivid wasp
#

^

thick oyster
#

Yes

#

Also could be some hidden entrance maybe

worldly rain
#

Ved after struggling forever finally finds the true mastermind... It's his future self A_WheezeTao

#

Reminds me of movie plot where hero is the villain C_TaoHehe

#

Shizo version being future self but yes

#

Archer from fate type shit

ebon iris
#

LMAOOO?

#

First thing i see coming in here

#

Can't believe ved drugs people bruh

ebon iris
#

Hi daily tholindis oomf :)

#

Yes LMAO

#

Its oomf

#

for the yumeshippers

#

Really? I search up tholindis on tenor and scroll down a bit

#

Plus some of my gifs are there lol

#

LMAO

#

Yes! Ive got a few more too from bilibili

#

They do!

#

Id love to send u more lol

vivid wasp
#

No offense to people who like Tholindis but I don't see how people think she looks like a playable character
Like to me she's no different design wise from the direidyth girl from the space and time quest idk

ebon iris
#

LMAO

ebon iris
#

I doubt it

#

LMAO

#

Yea until ved shows up in 6.7

#

Trehee

#

Quiet

#

But were all good

#

No delusional coping

#

Unlike a certain other subreddit

#

🤭

ebon iris
#

Ahhh

#

Classic khaenriahn writing curse

#

Either ur fridged or nope the fuck out of the narrative until its time to conveniently need them again

ebon iris
#

LMAOOO?

#

Who is this

#

Fair enough

#

If we meet another npc this upcoming dain patch that only exists just for that and die off itll probably be in that category lol

#

Unless fucking asmoday shows up

#

Or worse

#

Vedrfolnir

#

Halfdan, Clothar, Caribert, Direidyth

#

Damn all these Khaenri'ahns dying for the sake of the plot

#

And theyre all in traveler/dain quests too

#

Better hope ved doesnt show up teehee

#

Or he might be the outlier

vivid wasp
#

Is halfdan important to the descender's lore though

ebon iris
#

GODDAMNIT VEDRFOLNIR

vivid wasp
#

Oh???? Really?? Explain.

#

Uh
That one
Irminsul???
I don't know

#

Oh ok
So you're saying he caused the upside down city..?
Also, was the upside down city originally part of Lang-Gan do we know
Like Remnants of Lang-Gan before it was destroyed

#

Oh, right I forgot about that

#

The Inteyvat flower deal

#

The flower in Lumine's hair

#

Yes, it was literally the first mention of it if I recall

#

Lmao

thick oyster
#

Rerir's obsession is getting the huzz

ebon iris
vivid wasp
#

It's back

vivid wasp
#

whats this version's event about anyways

ebon iris
vivid wasp
#

Wdym

ebon iris
#

no its literally a weapon convention

#

they buy and sell weapons

#

very cool

vivid wasp
#

Ah ok

worldly rain
#

Old news...where's the real Liben? E_OMEGARAZOR

lilac coral
#

WAIT, LIBEN IS BACK THIS VERSION?

#

😔

#

Great but also disappointing

#

Is he voiced this time? I feel like we've only heard him once and it was the only other time he appeared NOT during the box of marvels event

#

Sweeeet

worldly rain
#

He's voiced yes

thick oyster
#

Well they can't all be winners

#

The kids who wanted to plant vegetables???
Show me a screenshot

#

Fuck that sub

#

It was probably ironic though

#

Zibai ain't even loyal to Celestia lol

#

I want someone to make a dragon agenda sub already ngl

#

*1 Shade

#

Istaroth isn't loyal in the slightest
Naberius is Rhinedottir
Only Ronova is loyal and she's going to get her ass beat in Snezhnaya

#

Look at this bullshit that I found

image.png
#

Just don't even bother arguing

#

Apep and Xiuhcoatl got turned into zombies

#

I'm beginning to think about just commenting the Israel flag under every post of theirs

#

Also Nibelung was at least sane enough to not immediately kill the Moons when he came back

#

Who knows what his actual plan was upon returning

#

Israel has higher meme factor these days

#

Yeah
Or the Qu from All Romorrows

#

Yeah but before he knew about that

#

Like when he was a couple light years away still

#

He wasn't but he was like Xiuhcoatl

#

Dying with moments of clarity

#

Yeah...

#

Save us Moon lore please save us

#

He was turned into a "half-alive corpse"

#

Idk maybe they had some telepathic connection

#

"only its gray corpse shambled on"

#

Maybe it was like how kings ingest poison in small amounts to become immune or something

#

But he accidently took too much

#

He was also a dragon though

#

They're light beings who don't mix well with dark

#

Or he got into some big battle with it or something

#

Wonder if he made contact with the andromeda empire

#

I think he probably made contact with the Traveler's planet and gave them technology
Would make things come full circle in a good way

#

Not millions

#

They have seen stars explode but that doesn't mean they waited an entire star's life cycle
They just saw one from a distance

#

It was a complete coincidence though

#

We don't know when Nibelung was born either

#

A burnt planet wouldn't have much potential

#

"Continued its journey"

#

Had no potential though

#

It didn't

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It had no potential

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It was a burnt rocks

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Maybe cause it realized Khaenri'ah pulled the Sibling down or something

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Idk

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So the timeline is this

Passed by Teyvat
Sibling somehow disembarks
Ship returns, crash lands on Nod-Krai
Traveler gets woken up by Sibling during Cataclysm
Ship gets taken to the moon

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Were they?

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They traveled around Teyvat with Dain

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Asmoday does at least

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Where is that stated again?

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I mean the two visits could have been in fairly close sucession

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For all we know

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Hm

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Sibling could have been dormant on Teyvat until being awoken by Irmin

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Not traveling

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They played with the Aranara post Catalcysm

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It's been like 3 years since I played the quests I don't remember them lol

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Tbh I wouldn't really like that but it is possible I guess

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Also suppose what events they interacted with

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My interpretation was that it's predicting the future
In the future of the story the twins will hold hands and Irminsul will bloom

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Wonder what 6.7 will have

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The whole "Luna X" naming scheme was just to avoid the 67

vivid wasp
thick oyster
vivid wasp
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Btw, I was looking at the wiki for the Mare Jivari again, and there's this
It's an interactable you find near the Bakunawa arena, I thought it was interesting

image0.jpg
lilac coral
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Nah, dead meme now

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The teens haven't done that in months

lilac coral
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I hope not, since it's gonna be Luna VII A_HuLurk

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Whichever it was

vivid wasp
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Well, assuming Snezhnaya will be the real 6.X patch
Which will be confusing as hell and I will still refer to it as 7.X
Then there's a change for them to make that """"joke""""" in the future

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Yeah

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Well, I was thinking that maybe that those etchings were alluding to lore on tje Mu-Natlans and maybe the Phoenix, not stuff regarding the Bakunawa...

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Well, what about the supposed structures in the distant they mention
Could be related to the Phoenix civilization

thick oyster
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I think the phoenix is probably related to the dragons
I mean the pyro vishaps devolved into bird-like saurians, phoenixes have fire, and reincarnation/emerging from the ashes is very dragon coded

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Maybe the phoenix was one of the dragonlords or something in a new body

thick oyster
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It's also Istaroth and Asmoday too seemingly
Hm, doesn't Istaroth mention the twin in her Lunar Arcanum?

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Abyss Sibling I mean

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"The "Wheel of Fortune" turns ever onwards,
But there are things which are never forgotten,
Things that can never be destroyed.
At least, I am willing to believe so.
Just as you believe in reunion with her."

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The her is probably Lumine

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Who else could it be

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Istaroth is taking directly to the reader, which is the Traveler

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Also Lumine

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Makes 0 sense

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Lumine is the one portrayed as the Abyss Sibling 90% of the time

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No it does

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Reuniting with Lumine is Aether's whole motivation

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In the trailers
Lumine is the Abyss Sibling

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They can't do it with everything

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It's assumed to be Aether

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Because that's what it defaults to

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Only in dialogue

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That used neutral pronouns I think

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With trailers they aren't going to release two different versions with different pronouns

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Istaroth is talking about the Sibling

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Doesn't make sense with anything else

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Why TF would Traveler be searching for any of them

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That is the you

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No

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It gets the point across

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Traveler doesn't know anything about the Voyager
They have 0 connection

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It's brain dead

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Traveler doesn't know them at all

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Nothing

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Nor are they searching for her

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She was also in a male body last time

worldly rain
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Are they? I don't remember them searching for her...

thick oyster
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That's just cause they hadn't seen Nod-Krai until that point

thick oyster
worldly rain
#

Where...