・lore-basement

[ebon iris]

dont gouge my eyes out now tho

its about as crack

but i believe it

LMFAO

I GET A BOB CUT

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1397096651608555551/1469074792291504272/image0.gif

did it?

when was this

i forgor

shit i havent seen the witchs homework mission for mona yet

all i know is she got blueballed into getting to the door of khaenriah by barb

and then nothing happened

great thanks devs

oh no she didnt

she just got to the location

i believe

and then nothing happened

oh? what is it

i did hear about that

how khaenriah had like

lakes of water

using it to see the world beyond them

genuinely that sounds so interesting, that they had their own version of hydromancy

[thick oyster]

Got a crackpot theory Vedrfolnir trained Barbeloth somehow since they're both "prophets"
So he's the SeisMegistus

[ebon iris]

Oh? Interesting

I assume u dont have any evidence do u?

Or is it just crack

[thick oyster]

Well Barbeloth is pretty clearly aware of Khaenri'ah going off Mona's new Hexerei quest
But yeah it's mostly crack based on the fact they're both "prophets"

[ebon iris]

fair enough

[thick oyster]

Mona does mention that even her master would struggle to discern the Fontain prophecy which Vedrfolnir did effortlessly

[ebon iris]

Hmmm maybe Barb didnt learn from ved directly, but I wouldn't be surprised if she learned her fortune telling from Khaenri'ahn roots or other indirect relations

[ebon iris]

is it specified tho that Ved saw Fontaine prophecy when he was a sinner? Bc itd make sense as a Blasphemy against Time

[thick oyster]

Well they should only be 1 point of connection across from each other
Since Rhine is a member of the Hexenzirkel too

[thick oyster]

He probably did it as a Sinner

[ebon iris]

Thats just him being roided up on abyss power lol

Far cry from barbs normal abilities

[thick oyster]

Well he was always a prophet too though

[ebon iris]

Remember he said to rerir he lost the ability to see the future when irmin took his eyeballs

Rught up until that moment in the prison

[thick oyster]

Even as a human

[thick oyster]

But he then got another vision right then and there

[ebon iris]

What's interesting is that Rhine hasn't mentioned Ved
She gripes with Hrop, is fascinated with Surt, barely cares or even remembers Rerir

[ebon iris]

We have yet to know what exactly that was

Could be anything really

[thick oyster]

Could show that his powers of prophecy are really strong
Or his future self gave him a vision

[thick oyster]

I imagine she'd be jealous of him too for being so highly ranked
But maybe less openly disrespectful of him/intrigued by him

[ebon iris]

could've been that

Could've been more

Possibilities are endless

[thick oyster]

Magic

[ebon iris]

feeling the side of the walls after rerir abandoned his ass

probably tripped once or twice

Maybe to get up to the stairs too

curses out rerir for at least not having the courtesy to walk him up to the throne room lol

[worldly rain]

Wdym? Dain literally was there to get him out from prison...
Since he was there in the cutscene too when they took the abyss power just assume he was responsible for getting him out

[ebon iris]

he was being extra petty that night LOLLLLLL

[worldly rain]

It's not like it's mutually exclusive events
After defeating guards he could've gone to prison to free him
Ved could literally use telepathy at that point so maybe he used that too

[ebon iris]

We still dont know exactly what happened beat for beat that night so we're just having fun speculating

maybe dain did come back for him

Or ved walked there by himself like a lost lamb

either way shit went down once rerir left

Damn

Really goes to show how different Rerir is from all the other sinners huh

Ive said before but he feels like he was an extra tacked on

Even tho he was probably fated to become a sinner

Its just funny to see how different he is from everyone else

"Nobody" my ass bruh

[worldly rain]

Well other sinners still don't have their own story to conclude that

[ebon iris]

Fair enough

[worldly rain]

They can have their own tragic story of their own

[ebon iris]

Oh they probably will

Surtalogi already has beats of it

[worldly rain]

Imagine ved saw the destiny and now he's literally fighting against it sacrificing himself

Even became that cube

Or crystal

I forgot what it was...

[ebon iris]

chained floating purple crystal that def isnt sus

https://tenor.com/view/genshin-impact-genshin-vedrfolnir-sinners-visionary-gif-6892696966883123564

like bro how did you GET here

[worldly rain]

He's inside the crystal I guess

[kindred epoch]

Abyssal telephone

He is a hawk that sits inbetween the eyes of an eagle

Atop the tree

Idk much about why or what from what I've read
Just that it is there

Not much info on it I think

[white spade]

[brave marten]

https://tenor.com/view/he-made-a-statement-statement-dog-clowned-trash-opinion-your-opinion-gif-15033044919438935088

[ebon iris]

It would unironically be hilarious if Ved actually was a Rerir and Tholindis shipper

like he was acting all aloof and like "no dont be with her u wont be happy" just to push rerir in the opposite direction and make them even closer together

world's best? wingman next to Dain

"Yea sorry I messed with you in the head and pushed you to accept abyssal power and fucked up ur life for 500 years, but hey! You got to be with Tholindis together forever and it was all part of my plan so youre welcome btw"

[ebon iris]

Truly this will be the romantic story like none that has come before

Can't believe Ved was actually an Elysia expy and not Alice

Dont ask me about Amphoreus plot bc I dont get it LOL

I only know about THE GOAT

THE THEOROS

LYGUS

Yep yep

And correct

He finally gets to voice a playable Hoyo character 😭 im so happy for him

Now im just waiting for playable Rerir in like a year or so LOL

Fuck its insane to think we getting Snezhnaya this year and next year is Khaenri'ah

Yea, but im happy we got Nod Krai

Otherwise snezhnaya would have hit us repeatedly with too much

Rerir, Dottore, possibly Pierro, Tsaritsa, Hroptayr

[ebon iris]

natlan? Well I guess the abyss yea

But wild hunt is so Nordic themed lol itd be weird in hispanic/latin America land

Tho I guess it wouldn't be called Wild Hunt

And lowkey yea if Nod Krai didn't exist would rerir still be in snezhnaya

Snezh would have the plot of not only the fatui/cryo archon but also the moons

And the heavenly principles overall

[river valve]

I feel like it would overlap too much to the point of being uninteresting

[ebon iris]

Oh? How so

Idk too much about ochkanatlan tbh

Also lowkey i felt absolutely nothing fighting Gosoytoth LMAOOOO

I had more anticipation and enjoyment fighting Rerir and Dottore than that stupid dragon

So Irmin parallel?

[thick oyster]

The Anemo one was still loyal to Och-Kan so they were banished by the other tribes

Enjou called them his people or something like that

Yeah that's what I meant

He spent his early life there
But his true home is unknown

[worldly rain]

"The envoys of heaven said that the world would soon enter a new and brighter age.
This was predestined, that future immutable.

But would a day come when such wonderful times might come to an end?

To this question the envoys gave no answer. So, the people chose from among them a chief priest,
And adorning his head with a crown of white branches, they sent him out into the deep places of the world,
To antediluvian ruins and long-buried altars of sacrifice, to seek answers and enlightenment... "

"People enjoyed untold wisdom, and that wisdom was their boon.
Their prosperity brought pride and ambition, and the mind to question.

So they questioned the heavens' authority, and schemed to enter the garden of gods.
And though they had promised to the people divine love, prosperity and wisdom, the envoys of heaven were angry.
For to question eternity was forbidden,
For earth to challenge sky, inexpiable.

So the chief priest who wore the white-branched crown went forth to appease the divine envoys,
And into the deep places he went, seeking the hidden wisdom of the silver tree in the ancient capitol..."

The detail of the angels anger towards the Hyperborean were always there since day one

"They say that,
The line of chief priests have always seen this same sight as their days draw to an end:
A mountain of crowns in a secret place, beneath a withered tree—
—each one hiding a lifetime of secrets kept.
Each retiring chief priest offers up their crown of flawless white branches to this world.
Every mighty and ancient city, and every austere place of sacrifice must one day return to profundity in the earth.

All prosperity must someday end.
But this does not mean that nothing is eternal.

At the end of a cycle, the earth shall be renewed. Thus eternity is cyclical.
The search for truth is a product of prosperity, and not the seed that plants it."

This was interesting read

And questioned the fate

[worldly rain]

No it's from the tiara hence why I said the lore existed since day 1

[lilac coral]

i only just noticed this now, but does baizhu have chengsheng's shed skin wrapped around his arm? 😭

it looks to ragged to be something like a sheer ribbon

i also still can't get over the fact that the ancient nation is called "lang-gan" and the english voice actors pronounce it as "long gone" (idk how accurate it is to how it's pronounced in cn)
like ah yes, the incredibly ancient civilization of long gone

[sly bison]

He’s a weirdo

[lilac coral]

true

also this is such an interesting concept if we were to try and apply real life logic to it

like that would mean the moon is stationary in orbit vs the sun, yeah?

(ignoring the fact the sky is fake ofc)

because i genuinely kind of forgot the moon never changed phases in-game until they started point things out about it

and the idea of them never actually having seen a crescent moon

unless it was something like an eclipse/the zhanzhu story

i wonder what kind of havoc it would wreak on the planet if the sky and moon were actually real and the moon always stayed on the far side of the planet, always facing the sun so as to never change phases?

[lilac coral]

holy shit that cutscene with her past 😭

also, this is the first time we've actually gotten to see ||a nail falling from the sky from the perspective of the people who'd be affected by it||

CONSIDER IT DONE, MY GOOD LADY

[thick oyster]

Zibai is the 10th Harbingers confirmed

Only like 20% of it though

[thick oyster]

I'm just saying what Mr Nine herself says lol

Alright, 70% bullshit

The first book is the only part with references to Pheans and the rest of them spiral into being completely made up

Yeah but it shouldn't be used as a guide

To filter out 70% of it yeah

[worldly rain]

The 90% fabrication and 10% based on real events was for the book only

Her weapon lore on the other hand

"Even the branch of the tree of time upon which the great and glorious Reman Republic nested would be cut off in the end, such that the nation founded by the other twin child of the wolves might rule. "

[thick oyster]

That's just IRL lore

Romulus and Remus were the mythical founders of Rome
Another description references them too

[worldly rain]

Right but genshin uses irl lore as inspiration all the time

Uprooted from tree of time aka branches of irminsul

[thick oyster]

Yeah but it's explicitly stated to "come from another world" or some stuff

[worldly rain]

It's all imaginary tree after all

[worldly rain]

Oh that's true it's talking about their travel in space and time
Nonetheless concept of imaginary tree existing might be the key take away

Wonder if Irminsul is replica of that but for shorter scale

[thick oyster]

Yeah we already know Genshin is connected to the rest of the Honkaiverse

[thick oyster]

Irminsul could just be a branch of the world tree

[thick oyster]

Though the Genshin team has kinda been moving away from it

[worldly rain]

I'm not sure if they're moving away or just waiting for part 1 to be over

We know other worlds exist already but whether these worlds are part of same universe remains to be seen

[thick oyster]

Yeah every branch is like a different universe or something right

[worldly rain]

Not universe or world but timeline
Branch represent timeline
Leaves represent worlds

There also bubble world which are represented as fallen leaves but I'm not too sure on that

One such theory was that teyvat is a bubble world but that was long time ago

While the tree itself is the manifestaion of the universe

[thick oyster]

Yeah it's a little confusing

But I saw a theory a while back about Citlalit being a scion of Fuli or whatever

[worldly rain]

So in short
Single universe
Multiple timeline
Each timeline different worlds

[worldly rain]

I doubt it
If there's any fuli here it's going to be Istaroth based on how Fuli works anyway
But that would happen whether they connect genshin with larger honkai world later or not

[thick oyster]

Yeah

It was to mainly explain why Citlali is immortal

[worldly rain]

There's also the sea of quanta which is basically the opposite in concept of imaginary tree but it's another can of worms which even hoyo hasn't talked about much outside hi3rd

[thick oyster]

Yeah I've heard of that

[worldly rain]

I keep saying natlan lore was not expanded well and we still are missing many things there
Hopefully they go back to it

[thick oyster]

Sorry pal, 999 more quests to glaze Mavuika

[worldly rain]

May be it's the confusing artifacts lore but I don't know

[thick oyster]

The Natlan artifacts aren't too confusing

[worldly rain]

I know there was a contract established by the tribe with someone... But how would that affect citlali it's never mentioned

Actually nvm the contract was to record the history on the scrolls not related to immortality

[thick oyster]

That got elaborated on recently

[worldly rain]

Yes I misremembered

Does citlali character story tells anything? I never read it

Actually might as well read it now yeah

[thick oyster]

Essentially the deal was to have a "Sovereign" to somehow support the dragons in stasis and support their dreams, which is implied to kill them eventually
Och-Kan would disregard it however and kill all the sleeping dragons
One of the surviving dragonlords years later made a deal with the remaining humans to create the bat saurians

[worldly rain]

Read The Headless Coquitao
Now that's the most confusing lore of all natlan

"The predatory birds that fly by night are servants of She-With-The-Broken-Visage, who took from her master's hand moonlight condensed into three silver strands, and crossed the fog of night to arrive in the land of spirit-flame, commanding blind weavers to craft them into vivid tapestries. "

Is this master one of the moon goddess? Or first angel?
...Or columbina?

Yohaul is the She with the broken visage but then who's her master who gave her 3 strands of moonlight?

But why would koitar have authority over moonlight? We know the tapestry was woven by Canon

Ah yes probably worked together then in those times

There's also this
But as the wandering sage banished by all tribes, Ropal the "Child of the Sea," once said: "I embrace chaos, yet I know not if chaos embraces me."

Could this wandering sage be real identity of enjou?

Lawawalker was also a wandering sage and we know that's enjou

That I don't know...his story is still not over so we'll see I guess

"His companions followed behind him, one among them named Nagual, a cunning shapeshifter from a distant scorched land that burns endlessly even now. "

This is also another one from mare jivari so maybe this is enjou...

What's mictlan?

Is it unified civilization of natlan?

[thick oyster]

Starcaller's Watch and the forge-able Natlan sword

And the new Natlan bow for the bat saurians' creation

Yeah the bow that came out last flagship event

[thick oyster]

The Third one

[worldly rain]

Not really since enka got below surface during the war of vengeance
Nails would be dropped either before the war as in case of hyperboreans/tsurumi/sal vind
Or after the war to cleanse abyss

I'm not sure but either way the nails weren't dropped during the war at least which is when enka dropped

Yes sal vind I don't remember then but it wasn't related to abyss iirc

It was similar to hyperboreans

Hmm I don't remember

Will have to read it again

[thick oyster]

Finally we have Roland's design

Wish he had long hair like Cap tbh

But I'll wait till we have his full model

[lilac coral]

He'll have a rat tail and you're gonna like it

[thick oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/reze-chainsaw-man-csm-stare-anime-rain-gif-17751007222649062258

He doesn't have a rat's tail

No

[lilac coral]

It's hidden behind his neck

It lays really flat

[queen prawn]

Look like durin

[thick oyster]

I saw someone genuinely say that Fontaine deserved to be flooded and that The Hp was right in imprisoning Egeria

Celestia fans legit don't deserve rights

[worldly rain]

Took you long enough time to realize that

Most of these hate is forced because these people are not watching the story as it's told instead they're watching as their headcanon gets obliterated and that's the source of their grieving

Genshin established since day 1 that their story uses unreliable narrator troupe but nah the idiot fandom takes everything literally at face value

[worldly rain]

I could understand the grievances back when the game was still young maybe even upto inazuma I could understand... But after that? It's been 5+ years, the game has already set in stone how the common theme is going to be
At this point if you still have delusions then nothing can change that...you'll always be disappointed
It's a real shame but what can we do

Mondstad - whole group teams up to defeat dvalin
Liyue - same with osial
Inazuma - traveler uses power of people's ambition against Raiden
Sumeru - whole group makes a plan to defeat scara and dottore

See how nobody had a problem then and called it power of friendship?
But suddenly natlan does the same as inazuma
Or nod krai does the same as sumeru now people have problem

They lost the plot the day they ignored childe or any other male members for being friends with traveler but had problem and cried "character assassination" when arle or other female members got close with traveler

Even in the latest archon quest they were crying over arle but not childe when both were there to support traveler
Childe was even willing to go much farther to protect traveler's interest until arle stopped him

[worldly rain]

That's exactly the issue with their premise
If childe wasn't a problem why is arle? Or sandrone?
And why isn't it in line with their character? Because their headcanom said so? Isn't that the whole problem to begin with then?

On a slight tangent but just look at how certain part of fandom took Rerir's character...
They wanted him to be this edgy evil villain and when that didn't fit they say he was character assassinated

That's why I don't take fandom seriously

They didn't even acknowledge that Rerir's goal was finally achieved albeit in a bittersweet end
They completely miss the point of importance of tholindis in his whole arc

Nah they just wanted him to be evil for the sake of evil
Funny because the same people would say where's the character development

Exactly as if it didn't take whole two and a half patches worth of storytelling but somehow they missed that

Hence bittersweet
He could see her but not reach her

And all that rage was in part because of abyss amd when that vanished amd he finally got his sanity back
All that's left was regret and repentance but somehow that's not character growth according to these people
He should be eternal evil and kill Columbia (he never even wanted to fight her personally btw)

Hoyo will actually write a good villain character and somehow they will completely ignore that over their desire for a cartoonish villain

I think they just hate traveler that's it
See how they still call him self insert?
So any character development around them is a problem
Villain should beat traveler is the basic desire

Even natlan's evil was natural phenomenon based aka cosmic horror
it wasn't comical
But yeah they didn't like that either
I wonder what they're do if PO really turned out to be AI

In genshin nope
Closest we got was comic version dottore but I doubt that counts

Unless you count world quest or something then there's plenty
But in main quest nope

You could say Surtologi I guess but it would be unfair since he hasn't got his own arc to flesh out his character
We really don't know his actual goal

Unless they don't change Or add to Surtolgi character as I said then he could be first one
He would be typical DBZ villain

Yeah

[ebon iris]

Bumlogi better have his feats explained more properly bc otherwise hes gonna look like a fraud when we get around to fighting him

They powerscaled too much so now the devs gotta figure out why we should care about this dude at all

[worldly rain]

Might be the imitation of irminsul

The new boss has very interesting description
It says he grew wings when he entered teyvat...
There's also this...
"Even invaders who seek to claim this world must obey its rules to some extent. Unless the heavens split open and the earth's defenses collapse, these star-born outsiders can do little more than linger at the world's fringes, whispering their madness into this realm, their attempts to seep inside amounting to nothing... But how long can this stability and order truly last?"

We can see that the defenses are starting to collapse at the border

"The formless beast that soared through the starless void should never have required organs this world calls "wings." Those grotesque, profane appendages may have arisen to adapt to the laws beneath the moon, or perhaps they are merely the distorted fragment of its true form that mortal eyes are able to witness."

Teyvat has its own laws indeed...

Yes the new one

Lord of something

Lord of the Hidden Depths: Whisperer of Nightmares

The way I understand is that wings only grew because abyss wants to infiltrate teyvat and hence has to obey it's laws to adapt until they can breach the defenses fully

Skirk on the other hand isn't here to influence the laws of the planet or anything she's just an observer so maybe it doesn't effect her the same way it does to abyss

It's the same with hex witches too
They don't interfere with the laws so it doesn't effect them hence no wings probably

Yes

Yeah that too
But wings was just an example of why the abyss grew it because they were infiltrating the planet at deeper level
Most likely where they could change the laws itself and hence they have to conform until they can achieve success

Probably that's why his appearance changed

Possible yes

I'm wondering apart from Rhine and Ved how are other sinners going to take part in the grand narrative around HP and shades...
Rerir already doesn't have any relation so far with larger narrative
Surtolgi is also looking like something genshin part 2 will feature when we go outside teyvat or something
Hroptytr is mia for now

Yeah I'm still waiting on that on how they'll close his story
Because clearly it's not over yet

His personal story might be done but his role in grand narrative should only begin now

There's also the pygmy and night mother left who are they...
I wonder if they'll just introduce new cast for them or we'll see existing ones to fill the role...

I have a feeling we'll finish bakunawa arc with full mare jivari release that's also when I expect enjou arc to finish

But let's see

[brave marten]

if I told u about Natlan's WQ before u played it and told u to guess if it's a WQ or not what would u think

[worldly rain]

Don't we already know this info though...we already know what happened when mare jivari came into existence

Just looks like different way of telling the historical event which we now know anyway

Which civilization?

[sly bison]

Columbina’s own trailer too could imply some very curious things about him as well

[worldly rain]

Oh that's true
I was more like thinking about men of lithin

There too original humans lived underground

[worldly rain]

I don't know
This book is very confusing
I'm trying to figure out who's who
Technocratic assembly is clearly celestia
And they use "fog of reason" to blind others from perceiving the reality
Lithin is most likely the light energy or maybe even morning star now that I think about it...

It's likely phlogiston though since lithin is said to be found in natlantea

@odd thicket the weirdest thing about men of lithin is that the original humans survive on "pollution" created by artificial humans
Very very weird coincidence now that you think because isn't this supplement the day / night cycle theory as mentioned in durin's weapon?
The people of day king vs night king?...

"Lithin," the miraculous energy source discovered amongst the Natlantean ruins, is the energy-based form of these creatures. After their civilization had descended into a large-scale war that covered the planet in a hazardous substance, the surviving "Humans" decided to transfer their essence into pure energy and store themselves in a bio-vault deep underground. "

Is this bio vault Irminsul? Did PO stored "humans" inside the tree....

"Following this, they designed a brand-new species, one that could survive on the polluted planet they had created. They hoped that this new species would aid in the biodegradation of the harmful substance until the surface was habitable again and they could begin anew."

So the newly created humans are there so that original humans can come back once the surface becomes habitable?

[ebon iris]

Ah yes

Rerirs fucked up looking horse

Its so weird how this world boss implies Bloodborne level kinda entities

[worldly rain]

"The point is, besides designing biological functions, the design of a species' history is also a simple matter of technology."

That's Istaroth work wtf...

"The incessantly questing heart, the barely controllable greed, the drive for victory... It all leads them to the same inevitable conclusion. 'The Unenlightened' deny it, but that is only because your senseless morals have yet to be overcome by evolution."

Holy shit is the unenlightened just abyss people? Is that the truth Ved found and established abyss order to help such beings?

@odd thicket oh I think I might have cracked the plot

Hoyo you shouldn't have released men of lithin
Now I know what you're upto

"When the survivors of this ancient civilization decided to transfer their life force into lithin, there were those among them — though a minority — who resisted. They refused to abandon their individuality and merge into boundless, singular wisdom. Because of this, they were labeled "The Unenlightened."

I feel this is what abyss order represent

Original humans who didn't participate

"The majority were unable to deny them their rights, simply preserving for them this final room, allowing them to live out incarnation after incarnation among the lifeforms on the surface. Those who considered themselves enlightened believed that one day, their brethren would choose to join them and return to the embrace of the whole."

Hot damn we might've cracked the cycle after all

"At the start of each memory, you see a huge figure cast its shadow over those who were exiled from the ancient city. The figure seems to speak, but you can no longer recall the words. All you remember is that you yearn for him."
Who?

[worldly rain]

Here's my cracked understanding so far...

1. The original humans are phlogiston based lifeforms
2. They arrived in teyvat and found it in natlantea but the rest of the surface was not suitable for them
3. They then merged into single lifeform aka PO, called themselves enlightened and were stored in a vault deep inside aka Irminsul
4. Few didn't merge and were called unenlightened aka abyss order people
5. Then the enlightened being aka PO created the artificial humans who would dwell on surface and create the environment safe for orginal humans to come back to
6. The unenlightened ones would continuously reincarnate as surface humans

The enlightened one aka PO also used "fog of reason" to hide the reality

1. lithin is what orginal humans are made up of and they found lithin in natlantea
   This lithin was used by fake humans to create civilization
   All this points to phlogiston aka data based lifeform

Yes that's valid

So abyss order was probably created by Ved to help those orginal humans who didn't merge with PO

Yes

According to the book it was their choice

But then they were reincarnated into surface humans and stuck in cycle

Yes to free them from cycle

Vision might be the stamp that says you're certified now go reincarnate in the next cycle

And all this to push fake humans into creating environment that would kill them but would allow orginal humans to come on surface

So the whole war might just be between fake humans and orginal humans
And PO being the merged consciousness of orginal humans

Holy now I understand why all those gods who followed PO created merged consciousness

Deshret remus etc

This is the truth

To break from the cycle by being part of the said merged consciousness probably

Or something different

I don't know for now though

Yes because all fake humans are just programmed into following their own destruction

Durin weapon is also reflection of this only I think
Day cycle leads to night
Fake humans creates environment hazardous for them but suitable for orginal humans

Maybe the reason little witch stopped the whole thing was because she knew original humans would come back and fake ones would die

"Kill" Because it will only kill the fake humans
Orginal humans would only return once they kill the planet after all
This whole thing makes so much sense now

"The point is, besides designing biological functions, the design of a species' history is also a simple matter of technology."

@odd thicket this is what istaroth did

"The incessantly questing heart, the barely controllable greed, the drive for victory... It all leads them to the same inevitable conclusion. 'The Unenlightened' deny it, but that is only because your senseless morals have yet to be overcome by evolution."

This is the fate

WAIT I realized something else....

"The majority were unable to deny them their rights, simply preserving for them this final room, allowing them to live out incarnation after incarnation among the lifeforms on the surface. "

The humans are fake but present among those fake humans there are also reincarnation of unenlightened ones... Are they the ones we call vision holders?

So unenlightened ones who keeps reincarnating are probably the vision holders
And those who refuse the vision among them probably are what constitute abyss order who decided to stop the reincarnation

Well basically the environment that makes fake humans live is hazardous to orginal humans and vice versa
So for orginal humans to come on surface fake humans would have to die

Yes he didn't want to get locked to repeating cycle

So let me get this...

The final fight is going to be between...

Orginal "humans" aka PO vs Original "humans" who refused to merge with PO aka abyss people/abyss order led by Ved vs original humans who keeps reincarnating among the fake humans aka vision holders vs original teyvat habitant aka dragons and various elemental beings

There's also the fake humans themselves who might learn about truth like Rene

Oh right then he's the unenlightened ones who keeps reincarnating

But there's still one thing missing
Original humans who refused to merge were by choice reincarnating
So where does vision fits in all this?

"The majority were unable to deny them their rights, simply preserving for them this final room, allowing them to live out incarnation after incarnation among the lifeforms on the surface. Those who considered themselves enlightened believed that one day, their brethren would choose to join them and return to the embrace of the whole. "

Their rights weren't denied

It was their own choice to reincarnate after all

Actually vision came only later no?
What if there was a fallout

Maybe PO decided later they could control the unenlightened ones into reincarnating and forced them

Maybe the unenlightened ones forgot their original goal and started working for the benefits of fake humans

So PO went against then

Yeah but PO still believe unenlightened ones would come back some day and merge with him

They didn't

That's when vision came into existence probably

So my theory is that unenlightened ones who keeps reincarnating went against the plan to make teyvat habitable for orginal humans or something

And that's when vision was forced on them

Wait wait... Maybe the whole thing is exactly this
Fake humans with the guidance of unenlightened ones started going against the plan of PO
And maybe the whole cataclysm or similar events are just to fuck with the whole plan after all

Forced to bear vision which bounds them to fate
Remember unlike fake humans vision holder aren't just fake but original ones reincarnation
So to control their actions PO needs something extra

Just like neuvilette who came to believe the fake humans
Maybe unenlightened ones also came to believe them after all they were reincarnating among these fake humans so they grew up with them
And that created the friction between enlightened ones aka PO and unenlightened ones aka reincarnating ones

And that's when vision was put over them to control them

That's what we think but this might be wrong
After all we still aren't told the existence of orginal humans

Original humans merged into single entity
This entity is PO
It's not twins

And the ones who didn't merge were given a room where their bodies are kept and they instead keep reincarnating among the fake humans
The fake humans were created by PO

Actually twins might be the unenlightened ones aka the humans who didn't merge
This line from men of lithin point to that

"Indeed, you are the leader of The Unenlightened. You have witnessed the countless memories of sages who established the codes of law, of poets who extolled the graces of virtue, and of warriors who fought against the oppression of tyrants."

Basically the leader of them

Abyss twin actually is the leader of abyss order so there's that

They call them prince/princess too

So orginal humans split into two faction

1. merged into single entity aka Phanes and went on to create fake humans
2. decided to not merge and kept reincarnating among the fake humans

Maybe that's what lithin is...

The stuff that makes orginal humans

And that's why they arrived in teyvat

Because they want that energy

It's kinda explained
They found lithin here but the environment was still not suitable
So they created fake humans who would change the habitats that would allow the original humans to come on surface
Until then they would live underground likely stored in Irminsul

But one thing or another keeps happening and their plan never comes into fruition

Cataclysm being the latest example

Not really odd because our memories are jumbled so we really don't know much
Also the orginal human aka Phanes uses the "fog of reason" as told in the book to hide the reality from surface dwellers

Fog of reason was created by merged entity of orginal human aka Phanes

Yes exactly

And abyss order is orginal humans who didn't merge into Phanes and want to break the reincarnation cycle hence they reject the vision and embraced abyss

Ved being part of this fake humanity probably knows the truth and that's why he teamed up with these people to resist Phanes

For that they had to reincarnate but I'm saying that using abyss they probably got out of that process
Remember they also live underground

Because they still are original humans

Nvm

I read that wrong

We'll probably know full nature later I guess

All this is just my guess so far based on men of lithin book
I think it's mostly correct at least when it comes to identity of PO and regarding original humans

And the foundation of fake humans

But where would twins fit into this we'll see I guess
But according to the book we probably are part of original human who didn't merge

Apparently their leader

Could be but then we're called leader of unenlightened ones not enlightened ones

I'm not sure probably different group altogether

They came much later after all

"They have always been right here beside us, and yet we never saw them. In their words, this is because of a gland in our brains that secretes a gaseous substance called "the fog of reason," preventing us from perceiving the world as it truly is."

Maybe exposure to abyss disrupt this and allows one to see the reality

Yeah I'm not sure on ajax for now and where he fits into this

"The only reason I can perceive this creature's hideous form right now is that I inhaled the gas known as "Ignorance" — a substance that I myself had created in my previous incarnation."

So the leader of unenlightened ones in their previous incarceration created it... Something that would allow to break the delusion

What could this ignorance be? Abyss?

[ebon iris]

Man its been a while since we talked about the samsara huh

[worldly rain]

Yes the unenlightened ones keeps reincarnating after all at the end of the cycle

Probably not since abyss wasn't created it just exists
Something else I guess...

Fits "ignorance"

But then the question is who is this leader of unenlightened ones? Abyss twin? Or someone else?

Or is it traveler

"At the start of each memory, you see a huge figure cast its shadow over those who were exiled from the ancient city. The figure seems to speak, but you can no longer recall the words. All you remember is that you yearn for him.

Perhaps every generation of The Unenlightened eventually returns here to give their answer.

In that case, what will your answer be? "

Who is this him?

Did phanes make vision so that the holder would yearn to come back and merge with them?

Remember unenlightened ones didn't merge and enlightened ones hoped that someday they would come back

So imagine if phanes did create a system that would force them to come back

"Every generation of The Unenlightened eventually returns here to give their answer."

Maybe this answer is to the question "will they merge with Phanes? "
And depending on their answer either they continue to reincarnate or finally merge with Phanes

I like this idea of phanes though
Much better than ai thing...

And would also fit the overall theme that hoyo keeps on doing in all their games aka consciousness of civilization merging into single entity

Basically Evangelion which is also the inspiration as hoyo themselves told long ago

Yeah

Although cycle is also present in Evangelion

The great reset

Different than AI

Merged consciousness of civilization

Shit that deshret wanted to do
Or what remus did

[reef axle]

That quote just makes me think of The Architect from the Matrix tbh

[worldly rain]

Genetic vault is just unenlightened ones not PO

"At long last, you arrive at the final room in the deepest depths of the bio-vault, where the last memories of countless generations of The Unenlightened are stored."

At least according to the book anyway

While PO is just merging of enlightened ones into single entity

So this will be the Allogary of the cave for genshin huh
The human we see are not real while the real ones are still waiting inside the irminsul

[worldly rain]

I don't remember matrix much but iirc it's the choice between blue pill or red pill right?
Basically to decide whether to continue the illusion or see reality or something...

Well basically the Allogary of cave is that the shadow the prisoners see is perceived to be real entity
But we know that the reality is it's just the projection of beings outside the cave

So in genshin case the humans we see are not real but fake and original ones are deep inside hidden

Primordial one... Orginal human... Yeah kinda makes sense now

I forgot it but wasn't that abyss twin?

Actually no that was golden nara

I just realized so basically the vision holder who ascent celestia are aksed the question whether to merge with phanes or continue their reincarnation

What do you think venessa chose?

Probably chose reincarnation... Maybe Jean is her present day reincarnation...

Not really we don't know if ajax was part of original humans or not
Maybe he just came from outside teyvat

Kinda like voyager

She also isn't part of original humans

Neither is Alice...

Nvm ajax is of this world only most likely

[worldly rain]

How so?

[reef axle]

Nah, that's Morpheus with the red and blue pill (whether to continue living in the Matrix or return to the "real world")

The Architect was basically telling Neo that they created a program for every generation of the matrix that accumulates the 1% of humans that cannot accept the Matrix as it is.

Once that accumulation reaches a critical mass, it manifests itself as "the One" (Neo), who must come to the Architect and make a choice whether to willingly release themselves into the source code and "restart" the program, or reject it and risk the destruction of the entire Matrix.

https://youtu.be/OoizoL_3e8A

(As one of the video comments points out, main thing the video misses is that Neo/the ones who reject the Matrix are essentially a bug in the system the machines cant "fix", so resetting the system is their way of keeping that bug from spilling out of control. Otherwise, video sums it up pretty well)

Full script of the scene:
https://www.massassi.net/etc/kedri/architect.html

[reef axle]

The Architect says this while the machines are on their way to destroy the humans outside the Matrix, so essentially he's implying that since Zion is already doomed, if the Matrix dies, then all of humanity would be dead.

Architect: Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo: You won't let it happen. You can't. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

Zion's the name of the city of people who escaped the Matrix

The surface world is an apocalyptic landscape ruled by the machines, and Zion's the last human city, hidden miles below the earth's crust where the resistance hides

Technically no, but some wish it had/insist it did (the original trilogy is fantastic... the 2021 sequel movie less so)

the original trilogy ends with Neo reaching an agreement with the machines to stop a virus that was spreading through the Matrix in exchange for a ceasefire between humanity and the machines

Main difference is that unlike the Terminator series, the Machines didn't want to wipe out humanity. The Matrix was half a survival thing, but also half a "keep as humanity alive without letting them get so much power that they'll try to wipe us out again"

so a ceasefire isn't as unrealistic here as it would be in Terminator

if you've played Mass Effect, the backstory for the Matrix Machines is very close to that of the Geth and Quarians tbh

Machine gains sentience. Asks for basic rights. Owner race freaks tf out, tries to wipe them out. Machines are like "bruh, chill" but also decide they have to fight back to stay alive.

😭

Dang 😔

[worldly rain]

How so?

[worldly rain]

He directed the plans and guided just like a leader
And he powered up to support Nicole too

Ok that's not true
Don't underestimate leadership skills
But on other hand he didn't get involve in any action himself only acted as support
So that could be dissatisfaction but don't dismiss his role

Then they wouldn't be doing their own stuff
Time is precious splitting task etc etc

Someone had to do it Varka was it I guess

[brave marten]

why would he be leading the wild hunt tf

did he get corrupted by the abyss too

losing his senses

also his design is kind of

not what I expected

seems kind of basic

[worldly rain]

He probably won't even have proper boss fight

Otherwise hoyo would've revealed it themselves lol

Even the new geo boss got reveal

[brave marten]

yeah probably a cutscene fight

the stream?

also seems like the animated trailer was left for Varka

at least they confirmed there's more to the expedition

🥀

the design bro

maybe there's more to it surely that's a bad angle

[ebon iris]

BRO TOOK RERIRS LEFTOVER NACHOS

Im blaming Vedrfolnir

We hear his voice

https://youtube.com/shorts/iD2rHmK-q3A

Near the end

[brave marten]

I was about to say they announced Roland's va so he's definitely playable

https://x.com/i/status/2022281348610949252

原神（Genshin）公式 (@Genshin_7)

【声優発表】

「ローランド」　CV　櫻井皓基

#原神 #Genshin #ローランド #櫻井皓基

X · Feb 13, 2026, 12:07 PM

then I saw this

https://x.com/i/status/2022280845482971312

原神（Genshin）公式 (@Genshin_7)

【声優発表】

ボレアス　CV　楠大典

#原神 #Genshin #ボレアス #楠大典

X · Feb 13, 2026, 12:05 PM

that's Andrius' evil persona

theh announce his va too

did u watch the stream

also idk I didn't see it myself 🥀

I'm assuming he is bcz of the red eyes

really?

I didn't watch it

not the same va tho

so different characters I think

[river valve]

Barbeloth maybe?

[worldly rain]

We'll probably get clearer look once animated short releases

[brave marten]

isn't ivanova dead

I assume not since it's about Varka?

and they were talking about him

Barbeloth

oh wait the middle

idk then

isn't it Rhinedottir

[sly bison]

Did by one spot Lohen’s vision

You’d been tainted by Lobotomy Kaisen agenda 😔

[river valve]

Very likely cryo

[sly bison]

This was heavily implied in the most recent AQ too

[sly bison]

Betting on Standard Physical 5* Cryo unit

[river valve]

Cryo polearm , potentially superconduct related and standard banner male was word to word wriothesleys first leak btw

[sly bison]

Maybe he’ll be a Hexerei unit too

[brave marten]

how is that a maybe

he will be a Hexerei unit no debate

[sly bison]

Perhaps

They might as well since we go no cryo on that roster anyways

That’s funny bc let’s be real

There are hardly any frequent powerscalers feats to go off of in general besides idk, Mavuika and Ei?

I’d get wanting some more overall flair and action but this just ain’t it

[worldly rain]

@odd thicket so what was that about moonwheel and my theory?

[thick oyster]

He beat Ghostrir's ass
It was only 10% Rerir that gave him trouble

[worldly rain]

10% Rerir gave trouble to everyone so it shouldn't matter

[thick oyster]

He looks mid
Sad
Coping that it's a faker

[thick oyster]

Sandrone needed Columbina to bail her out

[worldly rain]

Maybe he is and real one will become playable later

[thick oyster]

Totally

Rerir had to lure him away to Amsvartnir to revive himself

Remember

Plus Flins was able to beat Ghostrir and Varka is stronger than him

No it was

Still
No matter who it was

Dottore was ducking Varka

Flins was weakened by Rerir's Abyss heart dumb ass

Flins explicitly says he's fought Ghostrir several times before that and won

[thick oyster]

Dottore when he doesn't have Daddy Nibelung's power to leech off of

[sly bison]

Arlecchino: “Save me Crimson Moon and Iridescent Moon marrow this wasn’t even base Traveler I’m dealing with here.”

[thick oyster]

Arle is a base Furina victim

[worldly rain]

Well we don't really know if moonwheel was just for unenlightened one or it involved fake humans too

Remember the wheel was given in absence of the order's response
It most likely was anti order in effect

And vision which was modelled after the wheel would've been modified to do exactly the opposite which is control in favour of the order

[river valve]

Arle is a writers victim unfortunately

[sly bison]

Yesnt

He can handle him when he was weaker but that has changed overtime

[worldly rain]

So it doesn't really go against said theory

[river valve]

If the devs werent trying so fucking hard to glaze the nodkrai trio arle would've gotten more screentime 💔

Especially that bum nefer

[thick oyster]

Mhm

[thick oyster]

Double Nefer's glaze and give it to Pulonia

The guy is immortal
Ofc he couldn't

[river valve]

Neither could anyone the mfs shtick is not dying

[worldly rain]

I mean we literally had segment where we wanted to stop Rerir from reviving because then it would be a problem
So him before reviving wasn't really too difficult to deal with

[thick oyster]

Literal God of death

[river valve]

"ancient name" like the ode of resurrection does anything now 💔🥀

[thick oyster]

Capitano could theoretically lend them 0.1% of his power

[river valve]

Let him keep it he's the fraudest of em all 🙏✌️

[thick oyster]

Yeah and he's weaker than Varka

Varka is the Goat

[worldly rain]

And it was explicitly anti order too yeah it could be the first experiment to bring the fake humans out of order
Of course that didn't work entirely because vision were created later to replace them mostly

[river valve]

Dk if the knight of boreas title gives any privileges

[thick oyster]

We literally destroy his spirit form and he reforms like 2 days later
Brain dead

Varka beats his ass

[river valve]

Andrius was pretty fucking strong

[thick oyster]

No we destroyed him

[ebon iris]

Hi did i hear rerir

[river valve]

No

Go back

[ebon iris]

DAMN

Jk anyway

[thick oyster]

We destroyed his Sibling manifestation

And he revived

[river valve]

Literally no one ever killed/completely destroyed rerir

Not even the fucking moongate

[sly bison]

I’m not talking about Varka

I meant Flins to Rerir

Varka makes it clear how very humble he is

But even then pre-revived Rerir still found someone of Varka’s caliber a threat

No in could match 10% revived Rerir at all until they evened things out with Bina

[ebon iris]

yea loves his disappearing acts

Tbf with flins he had our help

Otherwise bro wouldve got killed

[thick oyster]

Flins was carried by Traveler

Flins was about to get diddled by 0.1% Rerir

He was carried by Columbina there

[river valve]

This flins slander is NOT justified

Guy cant catch a break he got haters everywhere damn

[worldly rain]

Doubt it as current moon wheel users don't show any form of awareness around truth though
But I'm not too sure what exactly was the nature of these wheels besides acting as a connection between moon goddess to gain lunar powers

[thick oyster]

Flins when Varka takes a shit in a 500 mile radius

Still lost

Varka > Flins

He also tops him

[river valve]

Varka whenever something slightly more serious than standing beside a table and talking is about to happen

[thick oyster]

Dottore when he realizes Base Nefer might run the smoke with him:

https://tenor.com/view/jujutsu-kaisen-mahito-itadori-yuji-yuji-itadori-i’m-you-gif-3829236877819562557

He was the producer of the operation

Battle of the dropouts

Because Varka called them

[river valve]

The more i think about it the more i hate that bitch nefer

[thick oyster]

Varka was on the field too he gave Columbina his power

[river valve]

Girl is a NOBODY why is she getting all the screentime

[thick oyster]

Everyone would still be dead without him lol

Brain dead

The what?

[river valve]

There's genuinely not a single feat on varkas name what the fuck are you fighting for 💔🙏

[thick oyster]

They didn't invite him what you expect
He doesn't have telepathy

[thick oyster]

Varka is a r*pist actually

So yeah nvm he's a fraud

[worldly rain]

Or maybe they themselves didn't know...

I was reading before sun and moon again and found something interesting...

"When the eternal throne of the heavens came, the world was made anew. Then the true lord, the Primordial One, came forth..."

See how it never mentioned what happened before the eternal throne was established in the heaven?

In fact none of the mention of PO tells how they arrived in teyvat...its always what they did after they took control

Makes me believe that the original humans arrival predates all this

"The Primordial One may have been Phanes. It had wings and a crown, and was birthed from an egg, androgynous in nature. "

This egg might just be the merged enlightenment ones after all

[river valve]

She could've been so much likeable if the devs didnt shove her up in our throats every other scene

[worldly rain]

@odd thicket Another interesting stuff is that we know from the book that original humans are digital lifeforms aka phlogiston/lithin based
So when Rhine merged with neberius maybe she became digital lifeform after all... Just like kukulkan and other dragons
And the tv like screen we saw of neberius makes sense after all they're digital lifeform

[thick oyster]

Team leadership doesn't matter apparently

[river valve]

I always found it weird why orobashi got sentenced for reading ts like there are definitely others who knew why did bro specifically get punished

[thick oyster]

PO is racist

[river valve]

Thats my goat right there

[thick oyster]

Netanyahu's greatest creation

Celestia

[worldly rain]

No it's not mentioned they "arrived"...

"At that time, The Winged One who tread upon morning stars and dwelt high above the moon became the Lord of the Eternal Heavens"
See no arrival... Threading just means sitting on top in literal sense or governing over in indirect sense which is what's happening here

[river valve]

Is it now?

[worldly rain]

Also see how it's mentioning they became Lord of heaven
Not mentioning they arrived and then became Lord of heaven
It's general statement

[river valve]

I thought it could be the "PO might have been phanes" part bc nothing else in the game mentions the name phanes

I still think the phanes part is sus

Bc the ppl of byakuyakoku knew istaroths real name

Bc its taboo to speak of gods name in vain

Every character says "ruler of x" when they speak of shades

[thick oyster]

Roland is in quotes
More evidence it's a faker

Please

[worldly rain]

But then it would say teyvat it doesn't

And the next statement days they became Lord of heaven
It describing the event that happened after they did

Not earlier event or even the secret origin

In fact I doubt anyone including dragons or moon goddes knows about original humans
After all the "fog of reason" literally hides the fact

Heavens is just another name for celestia

No they arrived later

When he was gone

Found out the planet environment is not suitable

Went deep inside the planet aka irminsul and created fake humans to fill them over the surface

Established celestia to rule over

And then we know what happened later

Phane is an enity that came into existence after the humans decided to merge into single conscious enity

He is the embodiment of them

Hence birth from egg

He is the enlightened ones

No because it was only after rthe humans found lithin in natlantea soil that they decided to rule this planet

But of course the environment fucked their plan

So they created another

The original humans were also made up of lithin

They're basically digital lifeform

Like the kukulkan in WQ

[sly bison]

She was still fighting toe to toe with him

[worldly rain]

No it's not mentioned how they did just that they made fake humans to populate the surface and engineered their memories which is basically what istaroth did

Considering it was present in natlantea soil I'll go with phlogiston
It also helps with digital based lifeform theory
And we already know kukulkan so it check out
Then the whole neberius digital screen
And rhine merging which should just be her becoming digital lifeform too

Maybe but then the environment suitable for fake ones is not suitable for original ones so I'm not sure

The whole point is for fake ones to destroy the climate and change it such that original ones can climb to surface

[sly bison]

Hence “even”

Rerir couldn’t overwhelm her at all either

[worldly rain]

I still want to know what could be the "ignorance" that allowed the leader to see the reality
Or even who this leader would be representation of...
Most likely suspect is abyss twin they are the leader of abyss order
And they most likely are the unenlightened ones

Actually nvm it's likely abyss

Yes seeing the truth doesn't mean you can do anything... A lot have seen the truth using abyss they couldn't do shit

[sly bison]

https://tenor.com/view/mihoyo-genshin-genshin-impact-paimon-you-deserved-gif-23340767

[thick oyster]

In the description of the trailer Roland's name is put in quotes

Implying it isn't the real Roland

[brave marten]

yeah

[worldly rain]

Mostly khanerrians who got curse of wilderness
As for khanerrians they definitely are fake humans
In the book fake humans used lithin to create the flying machine and field tillers we know that's just ruin machines

[thick oyster]

Or just one of Roland's goons or something
Like Surtalogi's friend in Skirk's quest

[worldly rain]

The Primordial One, the great sovereign, began the creation of heaven and earth for "our" sake...

See how "our" is written in quotes?
Giving the hidden meaning as in our here is not humans but "humans"...
It's all making sense now

Automated tilling machines revolutionized farming, more than sextupling agricultural yields, while airborne shuttles soared into the sky, connecting the once-isolated cities dotting the continent.

Yes..

Men of lithin as I said

Khanerrians are the fake humans

And now that I think about it...

Since the design for the fake humans was to destroy the environment
But instead everytime these fake ones would rebel against their creator
And hence the heavens would destroy them everytime and repeat the cycle...

Khanerrians being the latest batch I guess who probably broke the cycle or something

With the help of abyss twin aka leader of unenlightened ones

Yes their design was to create suitable environment for original humans but their ambition would always lead them to rebel

Through war or something let me see... Wait

"Following this, they designed a brand-new species, one that could survive on the polluted planet they had created. They hoped that this new species would aid in the biodegradation of the harmful substance until the surface was habitable again and they could begin anew. "

So basically all they had was hope

And these fake humans never lived up to their hopes I guess lol

Pollution created by original humans that made the planet uninhabitable

Actually I somehow missed this info

""Lithin," the miraculous energy source discovered amongst the Natlantean ruins, is the energy-based form of these creatures. After their civilization had descended into a large-scale war that covered the planet in a hazardous substance, the surviving "Humans" decided to transfer their essence into pure energy and store themselves in a bio-vault deep underground."

Okay my theory might change a bit now... I forgot this info

So og humans destroyed the environment themselves after overusing lithin

Once the surface dwellers discovered lithin and used it to advance their civilization, the ancient beings from beneath the earth would start to re-emerge. And so they wait for the day when surface civilization destroys itself a catastrophe that will give them new life.

Basically the whole plan...

What's fetter?

I do think lithin is the substance that powered ruin machine

Iirc there was a note in that sumeru wq...
It talked about the energy used to power ruin machine

I can't remember which note though

Nah it was something something light energy combined with void which resulted in new type of energy that ran without using elements

I can't remember exactly sorry

It was too long ago lol

Phlogiston is also similar to Azozite as in it exist in the earth...

Something similar I guess

"When the survivors of this ancient civilization decided to transfer their life force into lithin.. "
It is because of this line that I think it's phlogiston because that's what kukulkan did
@odd thicket

Unless we know of any other source of energy that can contain the life force...

That's what the note mentioned...
I'll try to find it later see if I remember correctly

Not in that sense.... Is there any instance where existing lifeform transferred itself into the energy itself? We only know of one example kukulkan with phlogiston...

Like yes light based beings exist literally dragons
But even these light based dragon transferred themselves into phlogiston that's what I'm pointing out

Yes I was giving an example

Yeah that's another true but I don't even know what is ichor

Phlogiston at least is explained properly

[lilac coral]

Ichor is blood iirc

Or not

[worldly rain]

Yeah nvm it's most likely what I said the one used in ruin machines

[lilac coral]

Traditionally, it's blood

Maybe it's different for genshin

[worldly rain]

Just need to find that note now

Most likely it's blood then for people of remus or something

[lilac coral]

Maybe

The primordial sea is where the original hydro archon was born, yeah?

Could be like "the blood of life" in a sense

She also used it to create the fontainians/oceanids

What?

But neuvilette wasn't alive when she was..? 😭

Oh

Oh that, heart not blood of the sea

[worldly rain]

I don't know lol I don't even remember the name of note
All I know is that it was where the giant ruin machine was in sumeru iirc

What was the location where rene and club had gone? There was that one sumeru quest

It was there I think

I don't remember the quest though

It was some area inside khanerrians ruin machine I'll see later

Yeah I don't think it exist as I remember
Definitely was inside some ruin machine but I don't know which one

Those giant ones

I think there were 3 in total?

I'll have to see inside later hopefully we can go back lol

[brave marten]

wait lemme make sure

https://youtu.be/p02WXZZ84M4?t=173

there

a timestamp

I think that's him

isn't it under Roland's impostor allegedly

if Ved is the one leading the wild hunt they ain't winning this 😭

didn't they say the wild hunt started appearing a lot around the cataclysm

uhhhhhh Siguard

who was Sigurd again

how old is he

could be that only a few of Rerir's remains went to the past and most of the rest stayed in their respective time period

so he's not a good source

doesn't matter

we just wanna know when did the wild hunt first appear

and it doesnt seem like he's old enough to know

it's just that Bina said it appeared before the cataclysm 🥀

huh really? can you send the part which describes it

I'm pretty sure Dottore was mentioned at some point in the set

doubt it

But to yield at this juncture would spell the end of the autonomy they had upheld for centuries past.

yeah so it can't be one of his students

I know

but that piece in particular

how does the piece describe Rerir coming

when no one knew about him in the AQ

until his first appearance

were the wild hunt disasters happening more frequently prior to the AQ?

okay makes sense

[white spade]

Given

[worldly rain]

@odd thicket found it...
"Though it is completely meaningless, but what if the smelting method used for Azosite was used to process Khvarena? Followed by using Abyss-created... a reaction...
...Perhaps a true perpetual energy source like the one idealized by the Khaenri'ahns could be created..."
this is Rene talking about how perpetual energy source could be created using smelted khvarena aka light energy followed by using abyss....similar to how Khaenriahns idealised it

then we have this
"...Based on our projections, the Azosite concentration will exceed 60% after this round of smelting...
...Though it still fares poorly when compared with that newly-discovered so-called "perpetual" energy source, after these energy alloys form a matrix, they should suffice to break through the technical bottleneck in energy efficiency requirements imposed by the large-scale "Mechanical Wardens"...
...Not relying on some dogma from beyond the heavens, but only upon the wondrous achievements brought about by human intelligence. If we continue to explore this path, perhaps we shall one day be able to create a true perputual machine..."

at this point Khaenriahns already had created perpetual energy source and started to shift the production from azosite to perpetual energy block see below notes...
"...After the smelting furnace in the Royal Machine Workshop "Gnade" was officially abandoned, this should be the last machine workshop in the kingdom that still has a complete Azosite-powered system...
...The efficiency problems posed by such a highly complex power system has proved intractable, so results of this nature are to be expected. Even for miniaturized, mass production units like Field Tillers, using a power core is much more convenient..."

[worldly rain]

Azosite was basically smelted from light energy found in leyline
So it's not entirely human made
Then we have kvarena and using the same smelting process on it and then using abyss further to get the reaction
As for what Khanerrian used we don't know... But they did produce the perpetual energy source by reacting abyss with something...i won't say it was khvaerna as it's not

Also Rene desvribes the order of these energy
So azosite was not enough to "re wrtie the rules" and so it was put on lower level than khvaerna which just like abyss was able to do so

But they wouldn't go beyond 60% and had to stop the production because they already developed better source of energy which was perpetual source energy

Yes
Khvaerna was given by nabu it's the highest level so far alongside abyss which is equal
And both can rewrtie the rules

Oh and also

Khvaerna was said to have some sort of self conscious just like abyss
This perfectly ties up into the theory that enlightened ones were merged using consciousness of original humans and transfered into lithin
So now lithin could just be khvarena

Yes

Yes but kuvahki was basically columbina herself
But yes same concept but for original humans

The fake humans were built into their own image so I would say yes
Although the currently they would be basically PO

Since they merged and all that

I'm not sure on that...
The humans arrived in teyvat they built their civilization and then subsequently destroyed it
They then had to create fake ones to purify the environment
Does dragons fit into all this anywhere?

If so how?

We know when first throne arrived PO rose from egg and built celestia
But where did this egg comes from and what happened before this throne was established?
Clearly this is where original human theory fits into...
But where would dragons fit in this theory? I'm not sure....

No because the egg is basically merged civilization aka enlightened ones

Og humans arrived, built civilization which led to severe pollution, environment got unlivable, went deep underground and merged aka egg from which PO came, created fake humans and spread them over surface, fake humans built civilization, plan was for them to destroy the environment, the newly destroyed environment would allow og ones to finally come back to surface

They also created fog of reason which hid the reality

Yeah I'm not sure because the dragons keep making this theory problematic....

Wait a sec

A colossal head and slender limbs, connected by countless threads to a seemingly reptilian body.

"What you are looking at is a 'Human.' It is the last specimen of its kind in the world."

@odd thicket the og human head was connected to reptilian body

Men of lithin

Yeah I don't know
Theory definitely has plot holes

Especially when it comes to role of dragons

Thing is vishap don't have history actually but the History was designed for fake humans so dragons don't fit in this narrative

Well the thing is that unenlightened ones reincarnated among these fake ones...
We don't have proper differentiation among the two group apart from vision theory

That was the dragons not vishap

Well it's a fun theory but likely missing plot points
I guess we'll see how close it can get to actual plot in the future

No the drgaons who got tainted by the elements and evolved among the new environment and lost their pure light composition are vishap

The og dragons with pure light composition are the ones who merged into phlogistion like kukullan and his brethren

How would you go around putting nibelung into this theory then?

Yeah but how would this fit into men of lithin?

But fake beings were created with the same biological function as og ones so that would imply og are also dragons...
Then where does the humans fit?

And what about the design of history among them?

Did dragons have pre made history like humans do?

No the fake ones were designed by the og ones and given history
Did this happen with dragons?

And what would make fake dragons then? Would nibelung be fake? Or kukulkan? Which dragons are the fake one here?
But then what about the og ones where are they?

Which merged civilization is made up of dragons?

What's gestalt?

Alright

Still doesn't answer the question of whether history was designed or not for dragons...
Fake humans didn't evolve but dragons do...
so do they fit this fake humans definition?

Not really because we have kukulkan and we already know dragons evolve
Vishap existence is proof
So they don't really fit the fake human framework

Also the dragons weren't destroying their own planet...

War happened when the PO started it

That's og ones
Where's fake ones war?
Shouldn't fake ones be destroying planet to create suitable environment for og ones?
So why weren't they?

Fake humans as we know them have constantly been at war since PO threw them on surface so that fits the theory
But how would dragons fit? That's the issue here...

Except abyss info came unannounced ergo not part of the design
And fake ones weren't voluntarily willing to create environment for og it was by design
So that doesn't make sense now

Which leads to another question
Where are the og dragons?

And what about unenlightened ones who keeps reincarnating among these fakes
Who would they be?

[worldly rain]

That doesn't answer the question though
It doesn't matter if abyss always was going to come did fake dragons or for the matter og deagons knew? No
So that doesn't solve it

Again doesn't fit because the og humans had built technocratic assembly which controlled the lithin production and were using fog of reason to hide from the fake ones

They ruled right over them

Celestia fits perfectly but what institution of dragons fit?

In fact there isn't even any institutions mentioned in game for dragons that would rule over fake dragons...

Neither dragons use any fog of reason or anything like that to hide

But we know celestia use false sky

Yeah my problem is that dragon or their civilization do not fit as humans from the men of lithin

Here are so many things that just doesn't match

Biggest being history of fake ones being a design which implies no evolution and instead fixed path
But that's not the case for dragons

No they ruled right in front the fake humans via technocratic assembly
just that because of fog of reason the fake humans couldn't see their true visage

The thing stored within irminsul would be the merged form
As well as unenlightened ones

Basically the egg

It was inside the underground vault
As for what this vault represent well it could be irminsul or something else I don't know exactly

But considering abyss order lives underground
And in my theory they should be the unenlightened ones who stopped reincarnation for some reason

No

[worldly rain]

Nvm that
Unenlightened ones are also stored in the underground vault the only difference is that they continue to hold their individuality unlike enlightened ones who merged
Well they definitely looks to be vision holders but we'll see

Could be yeah

@odd thicket on to your skin description of supernova
So I think you could be partly right here
So hear me out...

What if the supernova that was observed by the ship was indeed aftermath of original humans destroying teyvat...

But then by the time they went deep underground and started making fake humans...
In that time light energy lifeforms aka dragons evolved on the surface?

And by the time the project of fake humans was finished and enlightened ones finally decided to start their plan the dragons had already built their own civilization on top...

Then PO(avatar of the egg) descended from deep within the earth and then war happened between the dragons and them...and afterwards the fake humans were thrown into the surface to begin the plan..

[worldly rain]

Yes assuming the theory holds any water

True

[ebon iris]

Absolutely 100% yes

The fact the wild hunt is being used/controlled by someone that isnt rerir

And its not a coincidence the abyss makes another move after one of its own sinners is out of the picture

Who's istaroths proxy then

Venti? Or us

[ebon iris]

Ahh makes sense

[lilac coral]

does anyone know what the lyrics to this song translate to, if there is a viable translation for it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQZSdE-Pobc

it's so pretty and i really like its inclusion in the world quest

but i am curious what it says

[lilac coral]

i got that far with the comments, but was hoping to find one with the lyrics

they probably won't

holy shit cosplay is real in genshin and it's xiangling's dad who knows about it first

[lilac coral]

BITCH DON'T GET ME STARTED

[sly bison]

Kc are you pulling Varka

[lilac coral]

of fucking course???

are you?

[lilac coral]

oh so she's an angel???

also what's his face ibis god from sumeru is also a moon envoy

[lilac coral]

with this in mind, what are the chances that venti -as well as any future named characters- is also an angel?

i thought seelies and angels were different things?

did koitar not die?

yes

why do i still get the ping noise when i am actively in chat staring at what is being said 😭

ah, i thought her lover was in nod krai, hence that whole world quest note collection in amsvartnir

i didn't scroll up

i was sat on the newest message

even now

i still got the ping

or you could not ping me for every single reply 😭

thank you

and i know it was to record her own thoughts, but the mentions of her... well, describing what felt like death in some parts

unless it was more just like

loneliness

ah

okay

ye

like that whole part made me think she was just.. a spirit

possessing a pen and writing her feelings

yee

her notes said that too iirc

which one

the wolf in front of the sword?

yeah

i fought it already

can't wait to use the sword with varka

not yet i don't think?

i'm currently doing the lantern rite quests and have been getting so sidetracked, that it's taken me about 4-5 hours to get through the last two

NOOOOOO

WE WERE SO CLOSE TO GETTING CLOUD RETAINER LEVELS OF STORY FROM ZIBAI IN REFERENCE TO ZHONGLI

I WANTED TO HEAR

aww, no fully animated 3D cutscene :c

i was really hoping to see a really nice one like we do every lantern rite

i'm kind of disappointed

[hollow spire]

has it ever been mentioned why there are lots of fallen ruin guards in this area of Liyue?

where/when was this mentioned?

[lilac coral]

are you confusing it with chi of yore?

oh right it's the stone pillars 😭

my bad

but also wasn't the god under it osial

i'm pretty sure it was

and then childe had released him from it

because those were the stone spears rex lapis had tossed to trap it iirc

that's fair

i think so? the dark sea at least

which, now that i think of it, they haven't mentioned for a while in-game

who

a last bastion of sorts

oh

gotcha

ty

[thick oyster]

Pierro and Tsaritsa were probably using Dottore to see how to beat Phanes

Cause he was Temu Phanes

[worldly rain]

Was there explicit mention for this? Iirc it was skirk quest right?

[worldly rain]

What's the price?

[brave marten]

it's gonna be something like the wishes of the people or something

[brave marten]

that's not mine brochacho but thanks 😭

yeah

im assuming they beat Dottore

using the wishes of people

somehow

and that's the price

then what could be the price

[brave marten]

maybe the death of many is the price

symbolizing Sandrone's death

the way to beat Phanes (Dottore) is by the 3rd descender being there (traveler) helping Nibelung (Columbina) come back

[brave marten]

yeah that's what I think

[lilac coral]

oh god i just found the apocalypse cult bunker 😭

[lilac coral]

my favorite message in the entire game because every single one of those is 100000% an expletive

i can just imagine it being a voice recording and someone bleeping out every other word

dude the sound effects and horror aesthetic of this area are fucking wild

like this is so disconcerting to listen to and explore

a door started moving and smashing boxes and it actually kind of frightened me, wtf is happening down here

all these whirring and screeching noises are insane

[ebon iris]

can we let genshin characters say swears please

We were this fucking close with Sandrone

i need a Sinner to swear

rerir should've been swearing his head off when he got freshly revived

[lilac coral]

the game is rated for children and teens so i don't think they can really go overboard like adding in 12 "fuck"s to a note

[ebon iris]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-my-mom-is-kinda-homeless-please-speed-i-need-this-tired-blow-gif-15401023925154467112

should do what the marvel movies do have one character be the designated swear word guy

and have that character be the one to drop it

Yknow so they keep their pg-13 rating

if sandrone wont do it i will choose someone

[thick oyster]

The price is tragic Yuri

[ebon iris]

NOOOOOOOOOOO

[lilac coral]

was hoping someone would point it out

the slavery, the torture, the gorey descriptions of things, the trauma, the offing of many ones selves, etc

not to mention the cannibalism, the child sacrifice, the skinning of people, the horrible amalgamations of once human creatures, people melting in public eyes, incredibly in-your-face racism, etc

[thick oyster]

Albert

https://tenor.com/view/george-lucas-its-like-poetry-it-rhymes-poetry-gif-19259245

[ebon iris]

rerir and tholindis, koitar and seutervoinen, saarelanien and tsaritsa joining the "im in love and im going to make it everyones problem" club

do we have any more contenders

does the racist lamp count i forgot

[thick oyster]

Varka's DPS

[ebon iris]

see now thats just foul

ur right

theyre worse

[thick oyster]

The most tragic thing in this game

[lilac coral]

wait this line was so fucking good 😭

he said it perfectly

[thick oyster]

(They'll fix it on release trust)

[lilac coral]

but just the fact they used slang "plastered"

[ebon iris]

now try saying that 5 times fast

[lilac coral]

i never could

[ebon iris]

what else can you be when u drink too much

its only natural to end up on the floor sprawled out

like the local bard god

oh u silly racist lamp

actually fucking insane

what did och kan do i forgot

wait och kan was gay

decarabian and amos yea

tho one sided amos was a lil fucked up

what the fuck LMAOOO

WHAT DO U MEAN NATLAN LORE HAS GAY DRAGONS

nvm natlan lore kinda peak

we got dragon yaoi

[lilac coral]

😭

how did this go from assault, genocide, torture, racism, and human sacrifice to gay dragons

okay but gay dragons

[ebon iris]

the history of teyvat is very rich yknow

besides weve barely touched on jehts quest yet

[lilac coral]

oh i know there's a lot

i just wasn't sure how all the horrible stuff that was mentioned got morphed into a conversation about och kan being gay

it's like going from a conversation about the annihilation of a group of people wrongly accused of a crime and having them all lumped together for the death penalty into a conversation about which type of mac and cheese is better

feels like two opposites

[ebon iris]

thats the fun of genshin lore

they are both naturally occuring events in the game

[lilac coral]

they are, but i still don't understand how the topic switched so fast

props to this one girl wearing the bandana and blinding herself for the festival

i used the rhimehorn deer for the pokemon battle and talked to it after the fight and it's just an excited dad wanting to show off to his kids 😭

he's so cute

the ferret upside down floating away attached to a balloon at the scions' stall was funnier than it should have been

jahoda grabbing nefer's arm and rocking it back and forth like a child while she speaks to her

[lilac coral]

this is my new favorite part of the festival: picking up a cup that ashru keeps pushing off the box

they, in no way, needed to add this to the game but i am all here for it 😭

[lilac coral]

aww, i didn't get to see the child or dad fly away

they fixed the glitch

[ebon iris]

you can tell someone on the dev team was either bored or had extra free time to make this part

[lilac coral]

Yeee

It's so cute

[lilac coral]

I was checking every nook and cranny for extra stuff

[sly bison]

This kid can’t see shit omfg

[hushed narwhal]

that is what we call an Easter egg

[queen prawn]

My goat Jean Krai is the real moon god suppress her power with the mask so Columbina could get the spotlight

[lilac coral]

Okay, now repeat that but in English

[sly bison]

I wanna see Jean’s parents

Ingame

Especially her MOM

[ebon iris]

i wanna see both her mom and dad

weve seen seamus in the manga but i wanna see his 3d model ingame

and also what frederica looks like too

hoping they have unique models like the moon sisters/tholindis even if they may not be playable (but im not opposed to it)

[lilac coral]

https://youtu.be/4s7G9I4SGZc?si=gsNrs65hVACwn_bl

Barbeloth full design reveal

But also damn the animators kinda cooked with this one

[ebon iris]

HAGGGGG

PROPER GRANNNNYYY

[sly bison]

OMG

BARBIE IS BREAKING MY HEART

[worldly rain]

The scryglass part

That it shows what fate itself wants to be shown

Fate is the one controlling the future visions
It showed varka two path
One where he's becomes the hero but mondstad suffers abyss
Or other where he goes to nod krai to fight abyss but don't become the hero

And if my theory based on simulanka is true
Then fate was just showing different timeline
So that means the branch where mondstad gets destroyed exists in irminsul

Well not really because we don't travel in said branch right now but what if someone else is... Maybe a different version of us or even sibling
This is where another theory comes that abyss twin was traveling in different branch than us and was later forcefully merged into our timeline during cataclysm

But anyway branch would only get destroyed if the whole teyvat gets doomed... I doubt only mondstad getting doomed is enough

It could very well setup alternate timeline where events occurs differently

You know what the biggest plot twist would be?
That the whole cataclysm was already planned by fate

[worldly rain]

Yes but we can physically explore that space no? That's what I was implying that alternative space dimension exists based on different timeline

True but abyss twin should still work

The red cubes of Asmoday... They're basically the different space dimension
She locked us in one timeline and abyss twin in another
And only during cataclysm our timeline merged...
That's one theory for now

All because istaroth already seen the end

And now using the future to fix the past
Something something causality

So remember my theory for men of lithin?
Original humans needed the environment directly opposite to fake ones
Now teyvat humans live in light based environment and can't tolerate abyss environment

So a question...how is that every fake human always go after abyss before getting their civilization destroyed?

And this ties up to your theory where you said PO might be related to abyss....
Now what if orginal humans are indeed abyss related and have programmed fake ones to always go after abyss so that they can destroy themselves and create suitable environment for original ones...
@odd thicket

[ebon iris]

so

is the trailer basically implying that varka went to nod krai because of rerir

considering the abyssal threat that threatens nod krai and parts of snezhnaya

the way its worded in the livestream it seems hes also there for boreas too

but in the scryglass he probably saw rerir/the wild hunt

or just the abyss in general

[worldly rain]

Not specifically Rerir but whole wild hunt phenomenon going out of control basically

Rerir was just a catalyst

[ebon iris]

hmmm figures

tho iirc he went on this expedition years before we (traveler) ever arrived to mond