・lore-basement

[worldly rain]

Not to mention ajax legend was written much later it didn't exist at the time of frostmoon scions plan came into being

[odd thicket]

It could be a derivative from another agent but the same source

The goal was the same was the fae creation too

maybe the third descender / voyager really were the best shot that the scions had

but were betrayed by the moons hence causing the infighting

and their collecrtive demise

[worldly rain]

Yes but fae were like beings that were created during process they weren't the intended end result
The end result was always a perfect being that could merge with the world
Also the plan to create such being was of first angel that's why she gave the creation tech to the humans

[odd thicket]

correct me if am wrong, but that was the same plan that the scions picked up that ended in reed right ?

[worldly rain]

Yes however since they had lost the tech and how to operate them after the golden city fell
they just chose crude method like that selective marriage thing to refine the bloodline or something

[worldly rain]

@odd thicket interesting lore here...

"...Compared to the powers of the Elements, the power of Khvarena is actually more similar to ██... It assimilates whatever materials and energies it comes into contact with... though the Khvarena is opposed to the energy of ██, it does similarly have a form of self-recognition. On this point, the two possess the same properties... just as tinctures of mercury will not mix with water, but will do so with other...
...We can reasonably infer that the power of Khvarena might be the same as the power of ██... the result of being projected onto this world."

Who created khvarena? Nabu... Who's Nabu? An angel...
What other thing we found in recent "colors" Quest that also exhibit the same nature of self awareness? Kuvaahki...

To think this lore from back in sumeru was building up to moon related powers that oppose abyss

[kindred epoch]

Yep this is also exactly what I remembered/connected to when I did the colors quest

[odd thicket]

And nabu is possibly a moon maiden

Like celadon mare

[odd thicket]

Go further back to liyue, jade stone is from the destroyed moon chariot

Or from the lunar thrones

[worldly rain]

sounds like angel and moon goddess are closely related

[odd thicket]

Yeah

Angels were created by PO but served humanity and moon goddess mainly

[worldly rain]

I also read that sun chariot fell into the chasm when moon sisters died
So there also one sun chariot apart from lunar chariot

[odd thicket]

There was another celestial object that fell into the chasm after the sun chariot

An iron meteorite iirc

Anyway the sun chariot was repaired by the locals and sent back amicably

The pale star has been taken by the Belyi Tsar

Meaning only the PO or nibelung can be the Sun of teyvat

Xiuhcoatl has never been to liyue

[worldly rain]

I'm leaning towards PO

But PO was called dawn star...

[odd thicket]

The morningstar

Lucifer

[worldly rain]

So who's dawn star?

[odd thicket]

No its the same

Iirc

[worldly rain]

Oh actually nvm it's the first angel

[odd thicket]

Dawn star is the same as morning star

Oh

Dawn star has a title ?

[worldly rain]

She's called goddess of dawn star

[odd thicket]

Yeah then she is lucifer

Dawn Star should be the same as the morning star

It can mean either Lucifer or the Goddess Venus

Who was the deity of love

Which would make paimon her… greatest lieutenant ?

[worldly rain]

She did fell from the heavens

[odd thicket]

Yeah
And was supremely punished

[kindred epoch]

Yeah it's a parallel to god and lucifer

Koitar

[elfin pebble]

Where have we seen the creepy abyss hands that come from the ground before? The ones that appeared with || rerir || in the recent archon quest

[odd thicket]

This is the first

You might be thinking of the chasm underground’s entombed abyss

[elfin pebble]

Then what are the abyss hands in the video Kieru made? 2023 hoyofair vid. Gaze of the abyss.

Around 0:46, unless I’m tweaking they the same thing

https://youtu.be/HTmdZtBfjLw?si=D7uU3dNp2APll9L2

[odd thicket]

it is a fanmade anim

[elfin pebble]

Ik but they must’ve gotten inspo from somewhere, unless genshin took from there

[odd thicket]

idk, creepy hands for death related spectres has been thing in fiction for ages

[odd thicket]

https://youtu.be/WlFOaZTwsq4?feature=shared

[lost quail]

I legit die inside whenever people think xilonen hates Mavuika

This is every Tuesday

[ocean ice]

i feel like this is a really stupid question but if natlans actual ley lines are so messed up and they mostly rely on the night kingdom instead to store all their memories then wouldnt they be unaffected by the irminsul changes that rukkhadevata and scaramouche did?

[odd thicket]

They are

Night kingdom is made from the burnt leaves of leylines

[worldly rain]

"The Lord of the Night did say before that even she can only "reconstruct" Natlan's Ley Lines. It's probably for the same reason. "

Lord of the night isn't making new seperate leylines
She just restored the natlan ones that were destroyed

Which means the restored leylines are still part of irminsul

And hence they too would be affected by the change of rukka and scara

[odd thicket]

Its just the older leylines are still safeguarded from natlan’s own

Abyss found and opening in natlan but not in any other nation

[ocean ice]

i see

thanks

[odd thicket]

Now that u brought this up

It is odd that PO’s girdle didnt protect natlan

Or failed here

[worldly rain]

"Using an Inteyvat as the base, I was able to grow a realm based on the Khaenri'ah of five hundred years ago, superimposing it over present-day Natlan's spacetime. "

Even Abyss twin just superimposed the newly created realm on top of existing ones and enriched it with memories to create the new leylines of new khanerria

But he's still looking for suitable place to host them as he cannot add them to irminsul

Firewall just too strong

[odd thicket]

I heard that bakunawa is a good landlord

Rents TB of Mare space at cheap amounts

[worldly rain]

It's alright dottore will burn the tree anytime now

[odd thicket]

A feat not even Irmin could achieve

With powers surpassing that of a descender

But do wonder if that is possinpe

Possible

The moons certainly were involved jn irmimsul’s creations

Perhaps the corrupted / crudely created crimson moon and its bloody balefire could indeed undo the world loom ?

[worldly rain]

The answer is always abyss
Anything you wanna destroy of light realm? Use Abyss

[odd thicket]

Nibelung Second descender copium

Ajax fought a dragon for seven days and only stole gold he needed

Frostmoon scions know nibelung “hunted” with a golden bow and had a chariot as well as a space shuttle

The new nod krai ore speaks of it being condensed blood from the moon chariot’s wreckage

[lost quail]

Mavuika has alot of issues I just realized

• she’s avoids any confrontation with vulnerability. Deflecting constantly, CONSTANTLY.

-she doesn’t see herself as a person but as a tool. Sure she knows she’s human but I constantly found myself asking if she knew she was a PERSON. Because the way she was willing to sacrifice herself, then brush it off like it didn’t happen was troubling to me.

-she’s pretty.. inconsiderate? Or at least she struggles with boundaries.

Like…

She’s not perfect at all. She needs to see Mizuki.

Do you think it stems from trauma?

I think she has some sort of post traumatic stress or something or anxiety because she has severe disorganized attachment issues

If you asked her if she was tearing up when the old pyro archon spoke to her

She’d go
“Eh it doesn’t matter if I did or didn’t. Don’t worry about it.”

Or “I didn’t it. Who has time for that?”

Like. GIRL.

I really do love Xilonen hanging out with Mavuika.

Because Xilonen is someone who puts her in a position where she stumbles, where she gets push back, where she gets teased ( cuz xilonen pokes at her back)

And she got her to fricken stutter during that fake argument scene. That’s why I’m like “I low-key don’t think Xilonen is someone you wanna make mad.”

Because while xilonen has the tendency to kinda keep things to herself, when she lets it out, she won’t hold back at all.

It’s like I feel like Xilonen might be the only person who could get her to be honest with her at the very Least. Nothing gets past that jaguar

Or ocelot

But idk

Not to mention Mavuika does push her to her best potential

[modern plover]

i mean mavuika is only a mortal in the end. if you are a mortal with a duty of a god for several hundred years, your mind crumbles

just like furina

she is not a deity like venti, zhongli, nahida and raiden. and even these 4 has shit for themselves to deal with like there is no reason why raiden is not a neet

i think mavuika has a fine personality so i dont understand why ppl think shes bland

anyway

seems like snezhnaya has lots of fae

and yes i glaze paimon very hard so just putting this here for fun cuz everyone from nodkrai only has 1 word to describe paimon looking like a fae for no reason

the so far mentioned cities in main snezhnaya is Snezhnograd, Novokitezhgrad and Tartaglia's village

russian names are long for no reason

[lilac coral]

Ye, I thought mavuika was fine

Her whole thing was trying to bring unity and strength through self-sacrifice to protect the home she cherishes

And for what her personality became was fine for it

[odd thicket]

She also sacrificed memory of her past life btw

[odd thicket]

They were nobility there

Most fae allegedly died due to actions of the Mad Monk and the Tsar’s folly

[modern plover]

yes ik

but isnt nobility supposed to be a minority

ik they are nobles but that sounds like a lot of nobles

[odd thicket]

Not really

[odd thicket]

During the tsar’s days he didnt allow humans into his palace save for a rare few clans and their descendants

It seems like it was a hierarchical society with fae at the top and humans beneath them

The reed miller pulp fiction book too hints at that

[modern plover]

r u refering to the tsar irl or the tsar in-game

[modern plover]

historically speaking its common knowledge that nobility is only a very small minority that has power over everything until nowadays

its supposed to be the working class who make up the majority of a country population

thats why im surprised with the mention of many faes. oh well fiction doesnt reflect reality afterall

but that sounds like a lot

it doesnt help when it is mentioned in the game that fae are supposedly angels that did not turn into seelies. given there are many seelies in the game, my first thought is faes should be the minority compare to that of humans given their ancient origin.

and when u mentioned nobility, its also common knowledge that they like to hole up inside their palace or community only, not appearing in front of normal folks but only special occasions. but in this case, nechtoka is merely civilians, the daughter of the chief police of novokitezhgrad, yet she witness many of them on the street

then thats a very different reality

it seems like the population of the faes is not as small as i thought.

[modern plover]

if you want irl example of russia, then the october revolution literally happen is because the working class and peasants revolts again the tsar under the bolsheviks lead, yknow what i mean here when nobility is such a small community.

[odd thicket]

In game

[modern plover]

still doesnt contribute much against my initial assumption that the faes are supposedly few in numbers yet nechtoka said otherwise

[worldly rain]

Fae are concentrated around sheznaya only it seems like

And very rarely seen outside of it

[odd thicket]

no, fae were the attempts of the first angel and the humans of hyperborea to create the perfect being that merged with the world

[odd thicket]

some fae can be nobles and some ccan be commoners

[shell heart]

I don’t think faes are all that uncommon we just haven’t seen a lot of them

Maybe it’s like the Oceanids

Since the tsar died

[odd thicket]

Flins left Sneznaya coz he was a misogynist who loathed a woman in charge after tsar died

[odd thicket]

He took down a lot of the fae with him

Mad Monk killed two* archons

[slim mica]

https://x.com/auenthusiast19/status/1970975999744671987?t=vsKYB61MVPeo_j9Y9ztLzg&s=19

ausa (@auenthusiast19)

It's important to highlight that the origins of Imunlaukr himself are unknown, but his name "likely" originates from Norwegian folklore. And we all know that Nod Krai is heavily inspired by Norway. Maybe that's why we met Varka in Nod Krai at last.

X · Sep 24, 2025, 10:17 PM

Varka Imunlaukr

I like it

[kindred epoch]

One of the world quest character Netochka says faes are much more common in snezhnograd and she is just surprised fae isn't as common here

[odd thicket]

he went to a place full of war and strife

[odd thicket]

why

[odd thicket]

fae devolved to commoners under the tsaritsa i suppose

[slim mica]

I mean, it sounds right but we’ll see

[odd thicket]

ah

maybe

my guess is he went down to khaenriah ?

buut no wait

actually

this guy was from the time when archon war started

his descendants were mondstadt's nobility

imunlaukr clan

[slim mica]

Yes

[odd thicket]

my guess is he perished in the archon war

every nation was engulfed in war and strife

save for natlan

[modern plover]

do u have evidence for this?

so far in game i only see fae being mentioned as nobles no?

what did i miss

[modern plover]

yes that was the text that i posted up there. it is after the quest that she says it.

[modern plover]

yeah i fact check myself here a few hrs ago. seems like that part of my understanding is wrong

[odd thicket]

As it goes with nobility some of them eventually lose it or turn rebel

Its just an assumption for now

Though am sure some scions were fae

[modern plover]

hmmm idk abt the scions part but okay

[shell heart]

Where do we get that part

[odd thicket]

world quest

lemme checkl

[lost quail]

Right
It’s actually obvious she has issues with vulnerability and a false idea of herself

I realized that on my second analysis

[odd thicket]

seems i misread

[shell heart]

Oh I remember that

Sevenfold curse part thingy

[odd thicket]

yes

[shell heart]

Yea coz one u mentioned WQ I was like did I miss one

[odd thicket]

seems like the fae were servants to the scions

in hyperborea

wonder where the antlers come from tho

hm

nvm the artefact set details why

[worldly rain]

As far as I know frostmoon scions don't have fae amongst them
Fae on the other hand live and ruled around areas of sheznaya

I wouldn't be surprised if tsaritsa is also a Fae

[odd thicket]

I wonder what went sour between the Fae and the Scions

[worldly rain]

From the current lore? nothing tbh
Fae ruled and lived in sheznaya...
Frostmoon scions settled in hisii island which at the time was part of remote borderland ungoverned by tsar

[odd thicket]

No in hyperborea itself

Perhaps what Pakkaisukko did earned their wholesale banishment ?

From the scions

[worldly rain]

Ah well we won't know until we get more info there
Probably something to do with how archon war went in sheznaya

It's pretty much clear that Fae king won the war
Now who did he beat for the throne? Well that's a mystery for now

[odd thicket]

And then theres the mystery of the cryo sovereign

Possibly used as raw material for fae

[worldly rain]

It could be that pakkaisukko is indeed the tsar who after sending 3rd descender to his death got the reward by becoming the first archon of the seven

Although I have my doubt

[odd thicket]

I hope not

Name wise

Pakkisukko

Is santa or winter lord isnt it

[worldly rain]

I wouldn't know

[odd thicket]

Wikitionary says its equivalent to Father Frost

Which is slavic Santa Claus

And in the same mythos

Snegurochka is his granddaughter

[worldly rain]

Hmm...
Maybe Fae got the dominion after the tsar took gnosis and taking control of sheznaya
Before they would only be servants
And that's why tsar didn't allow any humans in his council for such a long time

[odd thicket]

Her name directly translates to snow maiden

[worldly rain]

Fixed that

[odd thicket]

Actually

Shes a very recent figure

Appearing only in 19th century

She can also be his daughter

Yeah hetslop bronya is a reality

[odd thicket]

He also betrayed Hyperborea
Going from Voyager to PO’s gang

[worldly rain]

The dragon that ajax killed in the depths of frozen sea could be cryo sovereign
And we know the runes were carved on bones of "beasts" to create fae spirits

Although nvm cause it doesn't make sense timeline wise

[odd thicket]

It can

Cryo sovereign could have died in the first war

Like Hydro

[worldly rain]

Yeah but then ajax wouldn't be the one to kill now would it because in those time ajax was Voyager

[worldly rain]

Which is strange and again doesn't make sense because pakkaisukko wanted access to pohjola and if PO confronted 3rd there then something important must be hidden there
Why would pakkaisukko would go after PO things? If he's on his side...
Unless if was all part of the plan to begin with

[odd thicket]

If pakkaisukko is indeed Belyi Tsar he tried once more to circumvent PO with the mad monk

[odd thicket]

He could have tried to play it off cool
Either way the third or his daughter would have been punished , no loss. And he built good rapport with PO after that

[odd thicket]

Are we sure ajax was the voyager or the third descender

Ajax was specifically with Snegurochka in the Ballad of the Fjords desc

[worldly rain]

Yeah and he did that only after going to hyperborea and seeing the ruins of golden city
Implying he didn't know of golden city before
Cause if he did why would he need to go and see whatever he saw there
And only after allowed humans into his fold

[odd thicket]

And his name was Saarleinen in the prayer book

Voyager was Seutervoinen

[odd thicket]

Perhaps he used the nail similar to Deshret but survived

He could have know the city well

But returning to check up on it could have strengthened his resolve for whatever comes after

[worldly rain]

Leaving behind only the legend of young Ajax, who discovered the country of gold and white stone in the depths of the frozen sea.

As far as I know only voyager fits the bill here cause by the time of 3rd Golden city was already a ruin

Wait actually...

Depths of frozen sea... So maybe it was already in ruins... Hmm

But nah then it wouldn't be gold and white anymore

@odd thicket actually you may be right here ajax doesn't describe voyager

He and Snegurochka once fell in love, yet lost each other due to the wicked tricks of the changelings — a truly tragic tale.

We also now know fae can change their appearance so changelings here may be them

[odd thicket]

Why wouldnt it be

Even skirk set describes it as such

[worldly rain]

Yeah

[odd thicket]

She was on top of golden city

[odd thicket]

Ajax was born after the rebellion failed!?

Which young ajax was this

Childe or the OG

[worldly rain]

Og i belive

First part of the story indeed tells of 3rd I think
But next part of ajax story doesn't make sense to me for now

Like it tells of a boy who fell to underground kingdom which has exact same discription as enkanomiya
Unless this boy from 2nd story is not ajax and someone else

[odd thicket]

Falling underground is in rene hypothesis and childe childehood too

becoming one with the world and emerging as a golden/ blessed childe

There is some fate stuff on here that we are not privy to yet

It can be that these two ajax’s fell into the abyss and witnessed khaenriah

[worldly rain]

Yeah but childe fell into abyss not any kingdom

"This ancient capital had sunk into the depths of the earth due to some ancient disaster, but despite being buried underground, it was still as bright as the dawn.
The solemn and silent king yet sat upon his massive chiseled white throne, the scepter in his hands not yet eaten away by insects,
And the silver-white trees in the courtyard were like the arms of a mother or a lover, holding the virtuous and wise priest in their embrace."

Doesn't look abyss to me not to mention silver tree which is basically irminsul branch that was planted by istaroth in enka as told in "before sun and the moon"

[odd thicket]

Well heres the cacth

Enka never had a king

Only council of elders and sunchildren

[odd thicket]

It can be khaemriah during the crimson moon dynasty

[odd thicket]

Imo insects here is the first time that was used to describe abyss

[worldly rain]

"Silver white tree" alone makes it not abyss
Does irminsul branches reach into the underground khanerriah?

If yes then maybe it's khanerriah then

[odd thicket]

Abyss can be used as a doorway too

Khaenriah constantly battled the abyss until it gave in during the eclipse dynasty

And for khaenriah the abyss was its borders/ skies

[worldly rain]

Abyss corrupt the irminsul there wouldn't be any silver tree in the kingdom If it was abyss... There wouldn't be any kingdom either

[odd thicket]

Khaenriah is implied to be at very bottom of the world beside the irminsul roots

[odd thicket]

It could be in the past

I dont remember which item but Khaenriah constantly battled threats from the abyss

Also, the abyssal sea line from the web event for the crimson moon connects here

[worldly rain]

Again childe already found skirk when he fell into abyss and we already seen where she trained him... We also triane in the same abyss realm
There is no kingdom there

Khanerriah also didn't fell before cataclysm
So if that kingdom is khanerriah again don't see any sign of abyss there

What's the color of dawn again?

[odd thicket]

Childe’s fate is owned by surtologi/ tied to him hence he got the shitty deal

Or

Childe is temu Ajax

And got temu kingdom (skirk’s basement)

[odd thicket]

Crimson

Or gold

https://tenor.com/view/legolas-lotr-blood-spilled-gif-12236773

[worldly rain]

Nah doesn't make sense for childe
At least the discription doesn't

[odd thicket]

OG Ajax was also a descender

Our ajax got a vision and is enslaved to PO’s faux fate

[worldly rain]

Perinheri also fell to the kingdom and he was chosen by angellica too

[odd thicket]

And besides

Same name doesnt imply the same fate one to one

It only has to wcho

Echo

[worldly rain]

But perinheri already got his own seperate story nvm

[odd thicket]

Perinheri unfortunately didnt rise back up as a divine baby

[worldly rain]

I'm not saying childe fate isn't parallel to ajax
I'm saying the description of boy who fell to underground kingdom in ballad of fjord is not childe

Cause the description of kingdom doesn't match what childe experienced

@odd thicket also about enka not having king well...

"The Parable of the Tree"
The king's gardener and the tree spirit of the royal garden were in love. But the king wished to repair the beams of his pavilion, and so needed to cut down the tree with the most spiritual energy within it. The king was the incarnation of the Primordial One, and the gardener could not defy the sovereign of sovereigns, and so he could only bring his plea to the king's priest, who was the incarnation of Tokoyo Ookami.

[odd thicket]

Who was tokoyo okami again

[worldly rain]

Istaroth I think

[odd thicket]

And where was this from

Also its a parable

[worldly rain]

Before sun and the moon

[odd thicket]

Isnt that a story that roughly details with abstract characters ?

As in, the character themselves matters not just the person and can be reproduced anywhere else ?

[worldly rain]

With all the rewriting istaroth has done I wouldn't be surprised she did something here too

[odd thicket]

The same story can happen in enkanomiya, or hyperborea, or in liyue, etc

[odd thicket]

Since its a parable it doesnt need to be enka

[worldly rain]

Yeah nvm I don't think it's related to enka history

[odd thicket]

Enka never had a king

This could be a short story/ gospel that was told to enkanomiyans

[worldly rain]

Yeah well they did technically but I get you

[odd thicket]

A condensed story of the truth outside

[odd thicket]

Do you mean sunchildren

[worldly rain]

Yes

[odd thicket]

Oh wait

Orabashi

[worldly rain]

Orabashi was God though

[odd thicket]

They dont count they never could exercise their reason

[worldly rain]

And while he did rule enka later i doubt it's the same as the king in ballad of fjord

[odd thicket]

Ye

Also
Insects defo mean the abyss
The weapon described an underground kingdom before the rot set in

[worldly rain]

The underground kingdom is described as "bright as dawn"
Which depending on how you see is either crimson moon khanerriah or golden city after it fell

I'm leaning towards golden ctiy though since it's talking about ajax

[odd thicket]

When golden city everyone was frozen and ran away

So defo not that one

Unless he fell down and saw the past

And golden city having a king is sus

They seemed to have worshiped Koitar more

[worldly rain]

Maybe it's something different then

[odd thicket]

6.1 cant come out soon enough and have Rerir hand out Khaenriah lore

[worldly rain]

A place where we haven't gone

[odd thicket]

Yeah

Though the pool of candidates is ever shrinking

[worldly rain]

The story also resemble bp story kinda

[odd thicket]

Ye

What if the bp story itself is a parable

That happened before

[worldly rain]

So there's probably another ajax here which hasn't been revealed

[odd thicket]

Luxluani mentioned there being three ajax

And theres always the possibility that the snegurochka ajax and the ajax tartaglia was named after were not the same

A middle Ajax

Which reminds me

[odd thicket]

Nod krai is called Elysium

We still havent had the long awaited Orpheus story

Nor the helheim stand in genshin

Hyperborea is Niflheim

If so, what is helheim

?

[worldly rain]

I wouldn't know kinda not well versed with irl myths there

[odd thicket]

Wait

Khaenriah could just be Helheim

Nobody ever returns from Helhiem once they cross the bridge in the mytbs

Myths

You can only do so on ragnorak on the ship called Nagflar

Khaenriah had the curse of no return

Perinherri book heavily implying you “die” entering it

Armsvartnir defo was nod krai’s zero point for cataclysm then

[worldly rain]

It's more to do with people who went to khanerriah mostly abandoned the gods which inflicted the curse of wilderness and so as soon as they return to surface they turned

As dain said it was a godless nation

[odd thicket]

So was helheim until she was born

I hate how theres too many odins running around

Hroaptatyr, Pierro and finally Irmin

[solar bay]

i thought the other travler twin was evil n shit i normally skip why is there a misson with her

[odd thicket]

Did u finish aq

[odd thicket]

Ig the crimson moon really is just the lobotomised , ghostly version of the iridescent moon

Her kuuvahki concentrated into one spectre of her

Flins has a dog ??

[lilac coral]

The dialogue reminds me of when you're able to speak to animals in baldur's gate 3

[lost quail]

WHY DO PEOPLE STILL THINK ARLECCHINO ISNT MORALLY GREY!!!

AAAAA

imagine helping saving people of a whole nation from drowning, caring about the lives of the children there, and getting genuinely pissed off bevause the archon lied to her people, so you decided to switch gears and find out about the prophecy and eho the real archon is. ( and again still angry nothings been done about it)

Only for people to call you evil

Mind you, you love kids ro death and tries hard not to kill anyone eho doesn’t deserve it

And these are the bozos you get

“I love evil characters!!!”

Yeah TOO much.

It’s ok to admit a character is morally grey

Genshin is a game where characters can be completely morally ambiguous

FUCKING MAVUIKA PROBABLY KILLED A HUMAN BEING BEFORE you think she hasn’t??!!

Raiden Ei was a fucking dictator, or at least complacent while her people suffered, but no one calls her a psycho

It’s ONLY the women getting this treatment.

I officially. Denounce this fandom

[lost quail]

-Arle isnt impulsive. She’s calculating and think heavily about what she needs to do and Whats necessary

• she cares ALOT about thw people who matter to her the most, even though she can’t show it because of her CURSE!! To the point where she actively found a way to not let them die. She kills only morally bankrupt people, and goes to extremes ( tho not very good extremes) to keep these people safe. She was VERY clearly upset about the prophecy. That wasn’t her pretending to be mad.

She even cared about Signora when people were making fun of her.
She mourns the deaths of the children who end up dying under a job she doesn’t even WANT them to have.

Like just UGH!!

She didn’t even kill Furina

A psycho would’ve

A psychopath wouldnt have let the kids leave and then ask someone to check on them to make sure they’re ok.

Due to her trauma she has a false sense of how to act on her good intentions

But also how to deal with people

[reef axle]

I see someone's getting into comment thread arguments again

[lost quail]

The only reason she got the gnosis was out of respect for the Tsaritsa. Arlecchino doesnt likw the fatui. She uses it to protect her children. But she seems to respect the Tsaritsa
She doesn’t even like her fucking co workers

Except for

Tehee

Columbina

https://tenor.com/view/blushing-gif-gif-14376605647912861462

https://tenor.com/view/flirty-gif-14229120460921105508

[lost quail]

This is the last I swear!!!

I don’t have to keep educating these people

Like, Jake, would you call Arle a psychopath??

Does she seem like a psychopath to you??

[reef axle]

In the medical sense, only a little (it's not a yes/no thing, there's degrees to it). In the average person's usage of it though, yeah

You know, considering the murders and all that

[lost quail]

Then war veterans are psychopaths.

I looked up the word psychopath and Arle didn’t really match it much

Only thing that got it was manipulation

And everyone does that

Honey. WE are psychopaths in the game

Do you know how many innocent people kill iust for mats?

I don’t think she’s a psychopath. Some people murder in self defense.

Arle only kills those who deserve it

So I’d say I kinda agree with you

Like a little bit but it’s a complicated thing

Because psychopaths will kill anyone no matter who without thought

Arle actually Doesny do that at all

And even genuinely helps people

Like

GENUINELY

[reef axle]

It's more the lack of remorse/guilt for it.

Normal people tend to feel bad about murdering people

Even when justified

[lost quail]

She wuite literally could die if she does.

Do we just

Forget that

[reef axle]

I mean

[lost quail]

Like

[reef axle]

Yeah

Definition doesnt care about why

[lost quail]

I give a damn

[reef axle]

Even if it was from abuse, mind control, implants in the brain, etc., the behavior itself (no remorse/guilt) is still psychopathic in nature. Medical terms dont care about backstory, only symptoms

It's not a character judgement. Ex: Someone going insane from torture isn't really a diss on the person

[lost quail]

She feels remorse and sorrow for children eho die under her care. So it’s not like she lacks emotion or care or empathy because she wuite literally shows thst with her children and people eho are innocent by definition.

She doesn’t feel bad for the ones she has to kill because there’s really no point in it. They either deserved it, or it had to be done? And Arle doesnt seem like the type to kill innocent people unless necessary. And even she would try to find another way to go about it

As she did with the house rules

Cuz believe it or not. She has morals.

[lost quail]

Eh, I get you

It just bothers me still you know?

Calling her a psychopath seems to just

Gloss over a lot of things about her character needlessly

I’d label Dottore a psychopath more than her

And shit psychopath isnt even the right phrase it’s ASPD or anti social personality disorder.

Psychopaths don’t care about people in the way she does

[reef axle]

Honestly Dottore feels more sociopath than psychopath to me lol

[lost quail]

Really??

[reef axle]

Difference being, at least in common usage, sociopaths wont typically deploy violence unless neccesary, prefering to just manipulate people/systems, while psychopaths tend to be more "oh, this person's in the way of my goal. Time to use force"

Dottore relies a lot on manipulation of people, while Arle's manipulations seem more superficial (like she's not spreading rumors about herself, she's just not caring/stopping the ones out there)

Dottore's years as a Sumeru researcher highlight the diffrrence pretty strongly I think.

[lost quail]

That’s why I feel like she’s not a psychopath totally

She shows annoyance when people are harmed or made fun of
She shows genuine care for her children and mourns their loss. She doesn't care about controlling them for her own gain or for fatui gain. She cares about THEM. She just has a job to do

She shows sorrow she just controls it for her own good.

That why I feel like for fictional characters you can't really label them one way

[reef axle]

Psychopaths and sociopaths can feel all of those things though... It's more the lack of empathy/guilt/remorse that defines them emotions-wise. (Also a tendency to keep external expression of emotions to a minimum)

[lost quail]

Only traits she has are the first two of them she has to do as a diplomat

Technically she does feel remorse. She’s raising child soldiers and mourns them and feels sorrow when they die under her care because of the job she has to do.

I mean would you call me a psychopath for not caring s fascist died? But i genuinely care about other people? See you can’t simply do that. You need to be specific.

Do you mean lament on it?

Cuz then I’m like ok

Like “oh my god I killed this person!! I’m a monster!!!”

That?

Cuz it’s like she genuinely cares about people like genuinely

Tsk well I guess she’s a bit psychopathic but she’s not a completely bad person like. She’s a bad person but not a completely bad person. She does a lot of things for good reasons and has done good things like help kids off the street because she thinks they deserve it snd helped save a nation cuz she and her kids lived there

It’s like calling her evil isnt really

Accurate

She’s not evil

And psychopath seems derogatory anyway and I don’t even this people with aspd call themselves psychopaths.

She’s a person with good morals snd acts on them based on how she feels they should be handled

And some bad ones too

Evil people don’t help people

Arlecchino is beautifully complicated

I’m sorry yall

I know yall are sick of Arlecchino leaving my mouth

[reef axle]

Ngl, that degree of emotional attachment to the character makes it hard to have any productive discussion on them 😅

[lost quail]

I’m sorry I didn’t mean to make you feel that way

[lost quail]

I do admit she can be classified with aspd. But I’m not wrong am I? She has genuinely good morals and has done good deeds.

But she’s done bad things too likw murder and manipulation. But one was to kill bad people and the other was to genuinely protect.

But she doesn’t have remorse for the ones she kills cuz they usually deserve it. Snd her job calls for that.

But again. I wasn’t trying to be difficult.

[shell heart]

I’d say different segments of dottore would hage different psychopath and sociopath combos

[lost quail]

True

[shell heart]

But also are we ignoring that idea coz all of his segments were erased

[lost quail]

I guess my mind operates oddly. I can’t really see Arlecchino as a “psychopath” because a psychopath in my mind cares for no one. Only on a superficial level. That’s not Arle in lore.

And her good deeds abd good morals can’t be ignored so I don’t. Abd I don’t ignore her bad ways of execution those good morals. ( murder and going to extents to genuinely protect her kids)

But she doesn’t really feel bad for killing the bad guys

So I’ll say she’s a sociopath

IM SORRY

[lost quail]

Oh?

Also I hope they make Dottore worse

[odd thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/best-guy-around-meme-gif-7582423445354748873

[lost quail]

Did you see my rambling?

[odd thicket]

No

Just woke up

I like characters who can put up a good show

[odd thicket]

She liked rosalyne btw

Signora was a good person to other fatui
Nvm you mentioned it later

[odd thicket]

Tbf she would have but was taken aback by her lack of divinity

If not kill at least beaten out info regarding the gnosis

https://tenor.com/view/furina-genshin-impact-genshin-impact-arlepulls-gif-16893860289109491539

The fandom goes out of their way to make Arlecchino Crucabena

When arlecchino is just arlecchino

[lost quail]

Like am I delusional? I genuinely think Arlecchino has good and bad morals. Good as in she doesn’t believe people should be taken advantage of and people should be supported like families and stuff. She believes innocent people shouldnt be harmed. Etc etc

But what makes her bad is how she goes about things.

[odd thicket]

Idk about the being taken advantage half shes a spymaster thats her whole job

[odd thicket]

Shes a very basic layered character and people have struggle wrapping their heads around it

A character with their own interests, responsibilities and morals they have to negotiate.

Shes definitely not evil though, a lot of her actions have been for the good of a people

[lost quail]

I didn’t say she takes advantage of people I said she doesn’t believe innocent people should be taken advantage of

What she believes and what she has to do are different

[lost quail]

They just think she is cuz she kills bad guys. I’d say the only time she’d kill an innocent person is if she HAD to like absolutely had to and that’s if a mission is compromised by a witness and even she’d make sure that doesnt have to happen

Cuz 1, she needs to be careful, and 2 she doesn’t wanna kill an innocent person

But killing people is bad so :p

She only manipulated the children to protect them, and it wasn’t delusion protection either

They straight up need protection. Like no she’s right, they need to be protected. It’s IMPORTANT they are.

At least to her. But the fatui values yhem too ( not like she does)

BRB store

[lost quail]

Back

[lost quail]

People don’t understand nuance

[odd thicket]

Ig she sees it as a question of having to harm them

Of how dirty she can do them before she finds it unacceptable

[odd thicket]

Ye
And the fatui project and the children’s lives are more important than a random innocent’s if they cant help it

Ultimately it falls on the fatui moreso than arlecchino

Shes being purposely kept out of the know by Pierro and Dottore

And capitano

The impression of sandrone from the AQ only reinforces that

[lost quail]

Right

[lost quail]

Like she doesn’t kill innocent people. The person in inazuma who was her underling acted without her permission. And the guy in Sumeru was talking about the old knave right?

I’m asking for clarification cuz I need to see that

[odd thicket]

Yeah

Both were Old knave

But

Doesnt mean arle hasnt killed innocent people directly or indirectly

Either herself when she couldnt help it

Or

Her kids fudging a mission

And even if she has killed innocent people

Doesnt mean shes overall evil

Or callous

Accidents happen

https://tenor.com/view/luthen-rael-luthen-rael-star-wars-andor-gif-5644261169390854326

[odd thicket]

Basically Arle lol

[lost quail]

So so far we know she doesn’t kill innocent folks. She didn’t even kill Furina.

Like gods don’t die when you take their gnosis.

[lost quail]

True

Like I think she’s had to

I accept that she probably had to

[odd thicket]

She was about to kill furina then and there and steal the gnosis

She was that desperate then

[lost quail]

Again! Stealing a gnosis.. doesnt kill a god.

She wasn’t gonna “kill her” cuz it wouldn’t have. Cuz she assumed she was a god.

AS SOON as she realized ste wasnt a god . She left her alone.

She could’ve killed her

I’d say she has aspd

Symptoms

[odd thicket]

It could also be to measure furina’s strength

[odd thicket]

She was more perplexed than anything

And left

[odd thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/i-thought-you-were-stronger-mark-grayson-invincible-i-thought-you-were-tough-i-thought-you-could-take-it-gif-7323789736249344021

[odd thicket]

Aspd ?

[lost quail]

Anti social personality disorder

Psychopath isnt even liked by people with aspd anyway

I don’t even LIKE that word

Psychopath implies unstable.

[odd thicket]

she could just be a little weirdo

a cool weirdo

[lost quail]

Hmmm maybe

[odd thicket]

anyway in those few short moments she chose to retract her blades

Killing Furina with half baked info would be bad sauce

and sour her dealing with Neuvillette

[sly bison]

Well the fact that she didn’t after figuring out she was just a ‘normal/powerless’ gril that didn’t even have it cancels that out too, regardless of her intent then

And even as far as intent goes, Furina might as well as come off as a reckless goddess with zero accountability at the cost of her population too back then

[odd thicket]

And indeed she was

[sly bison]

from an outside perspective, sure

But we know Furina was ultimately pushed into a corner by Focalors to have total faith in her plan when not even loopholes and workarounds she looked into were feasible

[lost quail]

Right

[odd thicket]

Which was the whole theme of fontaine

Nothing was as it appeared

From lyney till emilie

[lost quail]

Arle is as much of a “psychopath” as we are when killing people in game for mats

[odd thicket]

Speaking of psychopaths

People never bring Yelan, Ningguang and soon to be added Nefer

Yelan straight up said she would murder Traveller and Paimon if they got Ningguang’s secrets

[lost quail]

Without remorse too

So is yelan a “psychopath?” The word is flawed

[odd thicket]

Shes not but shes a sociopath

[odd thicket]

People would slander arle but would never bring up these 3

[lost quail]

She’s not a sociopath either.

[fickle ore]

Spoiler Decree

Reminder that any and all new content that comes under Rule 5 of the server rules should be clearly spoilered with context.

If you want to post freely without any restrictions, your one stop shop is #・genshin-spoilers. Failure to spoiler content will result in mutes.

[lost quail]

Sociopaths feel zero empathy

Arlecchino isn’t any of these. And her manipulation isn’t for herself but for work or protection

Only one that works is irresponsibility

But even then like..

When?

Arle knows what’s wrong but does it cuz she has a job to do ( working for the Fatui)

Let’s get specific like

Do you know examples of her not knowing right from wrong? Because she knows not to take advantage or harm innocent people unprompted or unprovoked ( only exception is to get the job done) so she doesn’t do that

( and even when a job needs to be done, she actively avoids collateral damage)

She knows children need to be taken care of and loved, she does that.

Her work prevents her from doing this completely
She knows being overtly strict is wrong but does it anyway? And still she did attack Furina then really care much about that

However, she knew it was wrong to falsely accuse so she apologized.

Basically she ignores what’s right if there’s a job that needs to be done or if she believes it’ll help her children. Like getting on furinas case for taking her kids to jail.

Or making them fear death to protect them and the hearth
Or telling them not to cry ( even she falls back on that by allowing freminet room to cry. So perhaps she just doesn’t like tears in front of her. It’s because she doesn’t want them to be vulnerable or seen as that by people who can take advantage of their mind in that irrational state)

When she knows what’s right, she’ll do right

Unless she feels the option can’t call for that

She kinda chooses to do that to her children, but that’s from trauma in and of itself. Because SHE had to do that stuff.

SHE had to fear death for leaving and even she didn’t wanna kill her kids cuz she knew that was wrong

But this is still an organization that values the hearth and its secrets so she can’t just let them go. …well she does

lol

Just wiped their minds of the hearth, the trial is just to see if they have the will to fight to leave, the strength to leave

And even if they lose she still wipes their memories

She doesn’t even fight to kill them

If that’s the case, the trio and us would’ve been dead a while ago.

In fact
Didn’t she SAY she had no intention to kill?

Diagnosing Arle is hard

It’s easier to diagnose Xilonen with ADHD

[modern plover]

reading the entire thread is surely interesting

[lilac coral]

Reddit thread?

[lost quail]

It was interesting having it. I like doing psychological analysis on characters.

Thing is if we were to say she has ASPD. It would be more complicated than I thought. “doesn’t know the different/ignores right or wrong” is kinda vague. People do things that they shouldn’t do all the time

I just genuinely hate the word “psychopath”

[modern plover]

well its similar

[lost quail]

I dunno how it’s a Reddit thread

But ok

[lilac coral]

Tbf, psychopathy is an actual thing

It's just that the word "psychopath" gets thrown around a lot as an insult and has been demonized in media when it's a largely uncontrolled lack of feeling and that people associate with being evil/malicious

Or not a lack of feeling like depression, but moreso a lack of feeling towards others, similar to sociopathy yet with its own slight differences

Unless I'm going off of outdated information from a decade ago, which could always be the case with new medical information

[lost quail]

Which again, I don’t think fits Arle, she genuinely does care about other people. That’s why in general I don’t like “psychopath” it leaves no room for critical nuance.

[lilac coral]

May I take it from a different angle?

Actually that is a whole can of worms I think I'm too tired to dig into now that I think about it 😭

So nevermind

I don't have the energy for a long discussion

Started typing like a paragraph and realized it midway

[lost quail]

Hey cmon ,
Maybe you can tell me tomorrow? I’m curious now

[lilac coral]

Not tomorrow, I'm out all day

The short of it would have been this:

Think about how psychopaths can and do still learn morals, even if it isn't an innately understood thing. They can adjust to societal norms and do things that are seen as morally correct but, to them, is just something that gets them through life with less trouble

The nuance being that they can still learn morals and that there is room for nuance if you look at it and how they integrate into society as, the vast majority of people diagnosed with psychopathy, aren't murderers or those who break major laws

They have the mental opportunity to do it more often than others, maybe, but only the most depraved would do most of the terrible shit people would imagine from things like the movies

The world has rules, whether they choose to follow them or not, to play to the tune of society or otherwise

And that could include doing something like hosting an orphanage and taking care of children because that would be something to their advantage in one way or another (in her case, after having been in a worse off situation in the same orphanage)

As she still puts those children in incredibly dangerous situations that could, very well, have them killed

But having them also means an advantage in the world as they help her navigate it through their intel and giving her better footing

^ all this not to definitively say she is a psychopath, I did not major in psychiatrics or anything, but is just something I've picked up over the years

Just another angle to share to give ideas that there is another layer and that, realistically, anything could happen

Though, they probably won't expand much on her since fontaine is finished and I can't imagine they'd give her too much screen time when they have almost a dozen other characters who are also big players in the same organization as her that will all be converging soon

Outside of maybe her history as a descendant of Kheanri'ah

Okay I go sleep because I have to wake up in the morning to see family 😭

[modern plover]

ic ppl cooking under the wiki page of Ajax

TLDR is that Ajax is likely the 3rd descender

[odd thicket]

Yes

Everything points to that

[lilac coral]

You have a disquis account?

[modern plover]

disquis?

[modern plover]

that just changes a lot

for both the past and present

consider Tartaglia's birth name is also Ajax, his fate mirror's that of the 3rd descender

[odd thicket]

There could be an Ajax between the OG and Tartag

[odd thicket]

No its from FANDOM

[modern plover]

i live under the rock what is disquis

[modern plover]

huh

dude elaborate

[lilac coral]

Oh, it eventually started asking me to make an account to be able to even view the comments so I thought it was disquis again since they also require you to make an account to view comments on various sites too 😭

[lilac coral]

A commenting platform that a lot of sites use instead of their own personally created comment section code, idk how to describe it better than that

[modern plover]

[lilac coral]

Sorry I've been misspelling it, it's disqus

Like "discuss"

[modern plover]

that still doesnt ring any bell regardless so its okay

[sweet dune]

arle debate again

how many times does she come up whoa

[lost quail]

Again I feel like this still mischaracterizes her intentions. That’s why I find it kinda annoying to talk about her with anyone else. Because the don’t get it.

She. Quite literally. Just really cares about children. She just has a job to do, that conflicts that. If her goal was true personal gain, she wouldn’t let them leave. I get defensive about her, because sometimes I feel like I’m the only one who bothered to pay attention. This isn’t ragging on you or anything, I’m not judging you, it’s just that idk it scratches my brain like a bear claw scratching a banana.

She quite literally genuinely cares about children and helping them. There’s literally nothing nefarious that suggest contrary, and what she has to do as a job she didn’t even volunteer to have, doesn’t count, that’s a separate thing. I could get a job as a hit man because I was given it and could refuse. Doesn’t mean I like it.

And her views about others screw in the direction that needless harm to innocent people is wrong. Or at least judging people right away. She could’ve absolutely killed Furina if she had the chance, and a psychopath would’ve done that. She wouldn’t have cared about signora the way she did. You would’ve made a better case if you said she didn’t care about if people thought she was cruel because it helped her, but she’s not completely cruel./ nm

She even condemns Dottore’s actions to use children as experiments. She could’ve killed everyone in the fight, but she went easy on us. She even makes sure the kids are alright when she lets them go.

[lost quail]

Is that an issue? And it’s not a debate. It’s a discussion

But shoot if it’s THAT bad.

[sweet dune]

nah

i could swear there was discussion over arle morality like

Last week or thr week before too

And that's just here

[lost quail]

I can’t really remember

[sweet dune]

For some reason community loves debating arle's morality

[odd thicket]

Its basically this

With arle

[sweet dune]

LMAO

[odd thicket]

Yes, but have you considered that I find Arle more suitable as a child trafficker and murderer ? I am close minded to read in game notes and subtext and I find my belief to be truer than yours

[lilac coral]

Jesus fucking Christ I regret checking the notification, I'll read this on Sunday 😭

[odd thicket]

/j

[lost quail]

I feel like it’s complex but not that complex

Like. She has good morals. Genuinely good morals, but then bad executions of those morals. Due to her idea of how those good morals should be executed.

[lost quail]

LMFAO IM SORRY

[lost quail]

Lmfao ppl genuinely think this way

[lilac coral]

But from the first paragraph- I think you've misconstrued what I was trying to say, and I'm not sure if that is a mistake on my part for not explaining well enough

I was saying that there's always other possibilities, I am not flat out saying that she is a psychopath and agree that she probably genuinely cares for the children, but was trying to explain why others may see it as psychopathy as they can learn morals even if they don't innately understand them

[odd thicket]

You should stop debating them and start bull shitting them

[lost quail]

Oooooh I gotcha

[odd thicket]

Exaggerate their false beliefs and still stan arle

[lost quail]

Right like

I should just say “yeah she totally uses children to be selfish. You’re right.”

[odd thicket]

And you should act as if you are proud about

[lilac coral]

It's because coffee talks about her every week in here if not multiple times a week

[odd thicket]

Be like

[lilac coral]

Along with mavuika and xilonen

[odd thicket]

She gives those children jobs and valuable life skills

[lost quail]

I like her ok this game doesn’t really have a lot of characters I’ve deeply analyzed

[lilac coral]

No I understand

[sweet dune]

A true arle stan

[lilac coral]

It's just funny lol

[modern plover]

its okay i get it. i did the same for Tartaglia too

and paimon. and albedo

[lilac coral]

We've only had two people so hyper fixated on specific characters in here and you're one of them lol

[lost quail]

Paimon?! What did you say about paimon!?

[sweet dune]

im assuming opinion is valid or I'd be disappointed

[lost quail]

Lololololol

[odd thicket]

Arle can kill neuvillette with poison any time she tried
Or
She clears raiden
Etc
Etc

[modern plover]

yeah i will yap abt her here every week LMAO

[lilac coral]

Pyro slime discussion back for a third round?

[odd thicket]

People are not gonna see Arle kindly may as well make them fools for that

[sweet dune]

albedo my goat

[lost quail]

Woah I don’t think she clears raiden

That’s a god..

[modern plover]

truly the GOAT

[sweet dune]

im actually gonna take a lore deep dive after exam today

[modern plover]

[sweet dune]

into durin

Because baby

And i want to know what to expect

[odd thicket]

No see
Raiden was traumatised by the Crimson Moon
She held her dying twin in her arms with the moon in the background

Arle goes crimson moon and raiden gets bricked

See ?

[sweet dune]

...using twin when clervie exists

[modern plover]

theres a thing in the media that every single time theres a twin, they will never be happy

[odd thicket]

Arle has no morals and will kill anyone if meeded

[sweet dune]

what's that fucking gif where you set an army opun a guy

[odd thicket]

Evil arle agenda

[sweet dune]

she's hot

[odd thicket]

Yes she is

https://tenor.com/view/arlecchino-genshinimpact-father-hoyoverse-fatui-gif-1769652855127441240

[modern plover]

the hoyofair arle this time round got me in gag

they need to make that a mod

[sweet dune]

Remember when this was All everyone had as pfp

[modern plover]

unfortunately i have no bounty points to set that as a request on gamebanana

[sweet dune]

Good times

[odd thicket]

He has acidic blood like a xenomoprh

[odd thicket]

I wasnt around then

[sweet dune]

...excuse me Monsieur

why is father misgendered

[odd thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/xenomorph-alien-romulus-2024-gif-8493735518272354311

[odd thicket]

No i meant durin

[sweet dune]

father being father despite being a lady is like important to her story or whatever

[sweet dune]

Oh

Oh i forgot what i typed lmao

[odd thicket]

It is because hoyoverse sees mothers as lesser and arlecchino has to be a father to be considered a good parent

[sweet dune]

also holy shit it's 11 time to dip

Exam in 4 hours wish me luck

[odd thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/all-is-well-all-izz-well-3idiots-three-idiots-3idiotas-gif-16016223

[sweet dune]

sexism in my hoyo impact?

[sweet dune]

I don't need to calm down i need to panic and study

[lost quail]

I feel like Arle though, genuinely doesn’t go after innocent people because again, it’s senseless. In her mind she might think it’s wrong to kill innocent people with no motive. It’s not like she’s worried about getting caught or anything. She’s pretty good at not getting caught.

So ts not like she thinks killing an innocent person will ruin her reputation or make life difficult. It seems she believes that murdering innocent people is senseless, pointless and not really a good thing to do. However she’d probably do it if absolutely necessary.

But she has no qualms about killing people who deserve it. And thinks absolutely nothing of it. She also seems to have no qualms about her ways of being a diplomat.

Her bad execution of her good morals and ideas lie with how she raises her kids, but you can’t really raise them “with complete moral integrity” when they’re in the FATUI. You gotta be a “bad” parent somehow. But even she falls back on her own rules from time to time .

Holy yap. Yk I’ll finish this tomorrow. Even IM saying wrap it up

[shell heart]

God

It’s been

3 days

Y’all still on about it

It’s not that deep

[lost quail]

It’s a discussion

No one said it was deep.
We yap everyday in this channel about things that “arent thst deep” compared to the real world.

So this discussion isnt more any more “deep” than people here talking about Genshin lore in a new update.

Mind you I ended it so I can go on about my business.

[odd thicket]

you can say she is fighting for survival of her hearth

and tries to operate within her morals

and anyway

arle's expertise is out of demand soon

When the Fatui finally make a move vs Celestia

[lost quail]

True she’ll prolly ditch

[odd thicket]

Are arlecchino’s hands dead ?

Or are they just blackened

Why does she think those are dead ?

[lost quail]

Anyone got any other morally grey Genshin characters?

Cuz I’d like to put Dori there

[odd thicket]

Yelan
Raiden
Kinich
Venti, Zhongli
Wanderer
Neuvillette

[lost quail]

I wonder why no one gives THEM shit.

[odd thicket]

Raiden gets shit

The others people ignore or forgor about

And tbh

All of the archons save mavuika, Nahida, egeria, focalors and rukhadevata were morally gray

Sorry

Rukhadevata isnt

Genshin doesnt explore a lot of topics in depth because it is rated minimum age 12

Unlike HSR

And frankly i am sick of morally gray characters now

https://tenor.com/view/evil-superman-gif-632723218522114279

burning away the old word is being echoed by Pierro in the lazzo trailer too

hmm

[lost quail]

How’s Mavuika and Nahida morally grey..

[odd thicket]

no i meant they are not

they are not forced to operate under questionable morals

[sly bison]

Let’s be real

HSR hasn’t had the best track record with that lmao

Penacony was a scam

The only character out of that worth their lasting salt was Aventurine in that storyline

And even they did his send-off dirty

Don’t get me started on Firefly

[odd thicket]

oh ? i assumed they went in depth with it

well, i judged by their fans

they rave about its plot

[sly bison]

Don’t trust any random hypers ever

Esp when it comes to gacha

Best way to tell is to see for yourself

[odd thicket]

@worldly rain perhaps this is pohjola ?

fae's trait is transformation

Tsar planned to rebel after visiting Hyerborea

Yeah he is not Pakkaisukko, unless his motives were different

it seems like pohloja could be celestia itself, the place where the false skies are anchored

the third descender could have opened a path to let nibelung in

[lost quail]

Do you think Mavuika has killed a man before?

A realistic portrayal of Natlan after the war would be citizens being angry at Mavuika over the war

[odd thicket]

Night of Sky’s Unveiling is of Rotwang’s colour scheme and not Flins’s or light keepers
Hm

[odd thicket]

No why would they

[odd thicket]

Maybe yes but most likely no

[lost quail]

That’s boring

But also, nice

[odd thicket]

Natlan is unique as the war against an unreasonable inevitable “Other”

Under mavuika the tribes united and she took no sides
The first since xbalanque

Its unclear if it was her or her predecessor who exiled Tenoch

[lost quail]

Because usually people still hate their leaders after war if people died. But I guess the ode of resurrection takes that away. I dunno why I want someone in game to dislike her so bad

That’s why I made my feral child oc Apichu. The kid Chasca adopted. She hates her guts

[odd thicket]

Hating on mavuika makes no sense as she eventually does make good on her promise after defeating Gosoytoth

Twice

Maybe an unreasonable irrational person

May

[lost quail]

I just don’t like that EVERYONE likes her that’s not realistic

[odd thicket]

But that would be boring

[odd thicket]

Thus far in natlan i couldnt find any note or story that shows discontent with the pyro archon, ignoring mavuika

Seems like they loved their sun god

The only people who may have hated the pyro archons are the muratans and the anemo tribe of tenochzitoc

[lost quail]

Apichu satisfies that for me. I made a character, who doesn’t like Mavuika and I find it satisfying. Apichu doesn’t like her because she views her as a monster, due to her bike. Apichu is a feral child. She doesn’t know what a bike it’s. And associated the horrible noise from the bike ( that sounded like a demon to her) to Mavuika. I haven’t gotten far in my little story with here and chasca, but I find it funny to just make her bite her.

[odd thicket]

But ngl in mavuika’s old squad tenoch and sanhaj seem more impressive than her lol

Sanhaj the most for me

[lost quail]

Mhm

I wanna bite Mavuika

[odd thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/bonk-doge-gif-24837098

[lost quail]

No like

BITE.

[odd thicket]

Mavuika recoiling in surprise would be funny

[lost quail]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-wacky-bite-got-me-gif-16950691

Like that

[shell heart]

For the whole bakunawa thing?

[odd thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/it-movie-pennywise-bite-gif-12960197

Bill Skarskard had to actually extend his mandibles and grow additional sets of teeth for this

[odd thicket]

Not just that

He was essentially two souls in one body

He killed his brother and lord of the night youhualtecoultin appeared as a man and punished him

[shell heart]

If u look at it carefully there is no tear whoever pennywise is biting

[lost quail]

Apichu usually aims for vital points when she bites.

The wrists and the throat. Apichu would not bite a finger. That’s not lethal.

[shell heart]

Damn why I ain’t known this

[lost quail]

She fucking hates her dude

[odd thicket]

It was in a book / scroll in his name and his brother’s

Sanhaj Komporre

[lost quail]

Chasca ends up feeling bad cus Apichu won’t stop attacking her and they can’t figure out why

[shell heart]

Oh I haven’t touched the books since like enkanomiya

[odd thicket]

Why even

Beyond the bike ?

[shell heart]

It’s jealousy coz she has no bike

She should hate xilonen not mav

[odd thicket]

True
Bikes are fun

https://tenor.com/view/riding-a-chariot-dementus-furiosa-a-mad-max-saga-we're-on-the-way-we're-coming-gif-16774905107655900120

[lost quail]

Apichu is limited in rationality. She is..literally a feral child. And she’s like 6 years old

She can’t even spell her name

[worldly rain]

That's how wild hunt came about which means it's related to abyss
And since PO was in pohjola so I doubt it's related

[lost quail]

She just calls Chasca “Chaca “

It’s too easy to say

[odd thicket]

The next scene he scuttles away minus an arm

[shell heart]

It was the second movie iirc?

Need to watch again

[lost quail]

She wasn’t the one on the bike, but she does bite her tail in the story I’m writing.

[odd thicket]

No the first
When the stupid little brother loses his paper boat and dies

[odd thicket]

Oh

[shell heart]

Poor ocelot

[odd thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/what-gif-18956861

[shell heart]

Was this biting the little brother

[lost quail]

Apichu doesn’t hate Xilonen, she just found her tail curious

[odd thicket]

Yeah

[odd thicket]

Have you had her meet mualani

[odd thicket]

Theres always the possibility that PO himself is using Abyss to some capacity
Rhinedottir is a supreme master of the abyss but is welcome in Celestia

And seemingly nothing is affected

[lost quail]

Yeah. Literally Apichu just doesn’t like Mavuika. They will figure out why soon though and help her out with that. Cuz the people at the flower feather clan already grew to not like her much. They aren’t a stranger to feral children, doesn’t mean they like the trouble, and attempting to bite the archon’s hand off is no good

I should talk about my ocs more here. It’s funny

[odd thicket]

Maybe celestia is not actually wholly light realm

We never got insights into their powers

[lost quail]

Not yet

[odd thicket]

Is it confirmed elsewhere thats how they came to be ?

It seems that opening the gates are the lmad monk’s end of it all goal

And yet to achieve

[worldly rain]

I don't think so the entire teyvat order is of light realm there's little reason to go for abyss when that stuff literally and fundamentally goes against everything PO built

Also Rhine is special case not the rule...they're just stuck with her

[odd thicket]

But now a pillar of the world is half void…hm

Which reminds me

[worldly rain]

Yes the lightkeelers were fighting against the wild hunts and before mad monk there was no wild hunt or even lightkeepers so to speak

[odd thicket]

The prayers describe naberius to be a scion / god for newborns and mothers

And rhine herself is a mother

Perhaps each sinner quite literally mirrors the roles followed by the shades ?

Vedrfolnir and Istaroth are

Rhine and Nabby too

Maybe rerir was a benevolent / righteous executioner / advisor ?

[odd thicket]

Maybe the wild hunt came to be in that attempt, as rotwang is lying low for now and waiting for the opportunate moment to stroke

[worldly rain]

I think Rhine is a special case
And while thematically sinners are the parallel to shades and PO
I don't think they're going for the actual fight with their counter parts

[odd thicket]

Fight ?

[worldly rain]

As in what Rhine did others would do too I don't think so

[odd thicket]

Ah

[worldly rain]

He went inside the abyss or whatever gate he opened where the wild hunts emerged
Yes he'll be back in future world quest series as main enemy

[odd thicket]

Is the former confirmed somewhere ?

[worldly rain]

Yeah in the world quest with Aila

[odd thicket]

Because the NSU pieces heavily imply his cosmically ordained purpose is to open those gates

After which his life is forfeit

[worldly rain]

Wait let me find it if I can..

[odd thicket]

Like it is his White Whale almost

[worldly rain]

"As for the Arrow of Terpikeraunas you mentioned in your last letter, if it truly holds the power to dispel the pitch-black calamity, and if you are willing to share it with such selflessness, then on behalf of the people of Nod-Krai, please accept my deepest gratitude. Should, as you foresee, Rotwang indeed rise again from the pitch-black filth, then our successors — an order I am considering naming the "Lightkeepers," in honor of the flame you have kindled — will stand ready to vanquish the threat once more, armed with the technology you have so generously gifted us."

Here you go..

Letter from solovei to aila

[odd thicket]

This doesnr tell how the pitch black calamity came to be

Rotwang specifically wanted to open the doors to something greater, akin to the true cosmos

[worldly rain]

What do you mean lol before mad monk there was no pitch black calamity in nod krai

[odd thicket]

It can be some other way

[worldly rain]

It's inference yes but not far fetched at this point

[odd thicket]

The wild hunt specifically toys with the power of death
Re animating the dead of nod krai and hyperborea

Rerir is still a suspect

Thus began the tale and transgressions of the mad monk, who in later days would sing the praises of the abyss beyond the heavens...

This seems to be far beyond the status of the wild hunt

If he did open the gates

[worldly rain]

Wild hunt is just he local name for abyss in nod krai

They're the same phenomenon

[odd thicket]

It was as if the great existence of the cosmos had manifested before him in that instant,
And chosen, above all others, to bestow upon him the grace of darkness.
Fortunately, tragically, he finally came to realize his mission.

"Flames illuminate the world — but they are also what reduce it to ashes."
"And my fate is like that of a moth leaping into the flame."

Wild Hunt seems… too inadequate for this purpose ngl

Wild Hunt is nowhere near as threatening as its familiar in Natlan

[odd thicket]

Thats what
It seems inadequate to match whatever Rotwang was aiming for

[worldly rain]

It literally says abyss lol

I guess you can wait for explicit confirmation but I doubt the answer will be any different

Rotwang wanted to find the pitch black Elysium
Solovei says he went inside pitch black filth
Pretty sure it's the same thing except both are looking at it differently
Especially when mad monk had already got his mind fucked by the vision he saw of abyss long before

[odd thicket]

Going into the pitch black filth seems inadequate

He has already travelled across teyvat

If he wanted to he could have done it in Chasm itself

[odd thicket]

I mean it is
But this could be an abyss instance unlike anything we have seen

[worldly rain]

maybe it's the source

[odd thicket]

Thus far the abyss is just nibelung’s cancer

True abyss/ universal corruption has never been directly introduced into teyvat

[worldly rain]

Abyss is also something that dismantle the order aka fate
I think that's the Elysium mad monk saw he was ready to hurl the world into the abyss as long as it breaks the shackles of fate so to speak
Wouldn't be first time when abyss would be used against the fate by someone...

And we now know he's somewhere in that abyss and will return someday too so it's not like he wasn't involved in it

[odd thicket]

Maybe the pitch black elysium being pohjola, where PO waited , was the summit of teyvat

[worldly rain]

I have honkai theory for that but I'll not say it for now

[odd thicket]

Where true space and the firmament and teyvat all make contact

[odd thicket]

Yeah he got the tsar killed in his attempt

[worldly rain]

Yeah he too got consumed by the abyss

[odd thicket]

Which coincides with the cataclysm and Rerir’s ascension and dismantling

Rerir too could be responsible for the wild humt

Hunt

His body was used to beside the tidestone seals werent they ?

[worldly rain]

Mad monk motive is clear btw
He wanted to destroy the "samsara" basically and thought he would live beyond when the pitch dark Elysium would come
Of course it didn't happen the way he wanted

Elysium did come but not his version

[odd thicket]

He doesnt seem to harbour that notion

To live

[worldly rain]

I doubt it there would've been some mention of him otherwise

[odd thicket]

He knows his own fate is sealed and is in turn honouring the one way deal that was offered to bim

To open the word naked to the true cosmos and burn it

[worldly rain]

"Come, follow me. Though the world is destined for destruction, we shall emerge from the celestial shell!"

He was ready to die and then reborn in the new world basically

[odd thicket]

Oh yes

So he saw a chance to live with Reed

Or

To escape the planet and live in space

[odd thicket]

So far just bald euphemisms to the cataclysm in the alia quests and letters

[worldly rain]

I don't think it's that deep it's yet another case of what happened previously with deshret or remus where both wanted to break the fate
Tsar was the same and just got unlucky with mad monk
Mad monk too had similar goal just the outcome was different

[odd thicket]

There is also the discrepancy

Which cryo archon was at tunigi hollow/ ashavana

And if they did make their way to Khaenriah

[worldly rain]

In mad monks case there was also a different vision for fateless world but that's besides the point

[odd thicket]

Thus far only two archons were absent

Other five had to been there

[worldly rain]

I don't think there's any mention of cryo archon going to khanerriah

Is there?

[odd thicket]

Zhongli met tsaritsa didnt he

And noted that whatever she saw in the cataclysm had her change drastically

[worldly rain]

Tsaritsa only took throne after the previous tsar died and previous tsar died during mad monk episode

[odd thicket]

I would say its not deep but then the sign of Apoasha dropping two years ago has me second guessing that

[worldly rain]

Nothing to do with khanerriah

[odd thicket]

In sneznaya

So tsaritsa had to deal with his death, ascend to the cryo seat, and immediately deal with the cataclysm and celestia’s call

Rough week huh

[odd thicket]

Another thing to be noted

The voyager gave them tech for an enemy that appear far far later their after defeat

He gave them before the abyss was a thing in teyvat

[worldly rain]

Ye maybe cause she knew of the abyss
She had already seen multiple worlds gets destroyed before she came to teyvat after all

@odd thicket

"The Senior Executive Mekhaneikos Priestess, Ariapeithea of Massagetae, has proposed a theoretically viable bypass protocol. Namely, the controlled input of [...] Realm Energy or [...] Realm Energy (refer to Mekhaneikos Manual D-503 for the possibility of the latter) at a specific carrier frequency, which may circumvent the collaborative control module and forcibly initiate the SAMPO. Upon formal evaluation, however, the proposed method was determined to pose unacceptable safety risks, with the probability of system destabilization and ensuing [...] exceeding [...]. In light of these findings, the original decision shall stand."

There was proposal to use (and I'm assuming here) light realm energy and void realm energy
But because of the risk of destabilization via void energy exceeding light energy the proposal was halted...

Mad monk was looking for the secret buried in nod krai which I'm assuming again is SAMPO mill..
And maybe he actually did what the ancient proposal once suggested and void energy aka abyss did overtake the light energy and led to the emergence of wild hunts? Maybe...

[lost quail]

I HAVE AN AU IDEA

[lilac coral]

I still haven't done the nod krai aq yet, so maybe there's context I'm missing, but it feels really weird/ominous to have columbina in this image when the anniversary illustrations have traditionally always been just the traveler, paimon, and all currently known and interactable archons

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G10v5MsXkAA66_U.jpg?name=orig

Like the most I know is that she's the moon maiden

But is she actually akin to an archon

Also I like that all of them have bouquets with flowers from their regions that represents them, like the purple flowers that evolved to be like the ones that were extinct for nahida and the glaze lilies for Zhongli

[odd thicket]

she feels like shes photoshopped there

[odd thicket]

shes the moon goddess

[odd thicket]

stronger

[lilac coral]

Ah

[odd thicket]

also i found out something about the samurai in nod krai\

it is part of an unnamed world quest

to go beat themm and collect their bounties

this unlocks the three chests at the Flagship

and the achievement high moon's verdict

[worldly rain]

Thoughts on above mad monk theory?

[odd thicket]

It mentions an either / or

Either light or void

[odd thicket]

Very possible

The wild hunt is from the souls of desd hyperboreans

Sampo is hyperborean

And reed stole the sampo mill and came into contact with Rasputin later

[worldly rain]

Yeah and Mad monk was already influenced by abyss so wouldn't be surprise if he used sampo mill in wrong way

[worldly rain]

"It was designed to reconstruct matter at the subatomic scale, or to transmute matter directly into stable energy, which would then be released in the form of [...]."

Not far fetched that mixed with abyss energy it could create abyss monsters too...

[odd thicket]

Yeah

So it seems he got the sampo mill BUT never made it pohjola or the dark elysium

[worldly rain]

Yeah Alia stopped his plot
I also think it's because Reed later got his senses back or something

[odd thicket]

Reed did turn himself in when the tsar died

And the Tsaritsa pardoned him

[worldly rain]

Yeah
I wouldn't be surprised if Reed turned out to be flawed guy who was partially responsible for the wild hunts
Which goes against his legend of him being the "good guy"

Kinda like he was misguided just cause he was born is wrong circumstances

We still have two more cognosenti left
Hopefully they add those in next update at least

[odd thicket]

Yeah

[odd thicket]

And people dont know about the mad monk in nod krai

Reed Miller is still a revered hero

[worldly rain]

Yup it's happened before where failure was masked with creating false legend
Can see the same happening here too

[shell heart]

I also thought we were gonna get all the 5 reed miller treasures this patch

But guess we have more world quests to come

[odd thicket]

2 final primary region expansion

1 final supplementary region expansion at end of 6.x

[shell heart]

📝

[queen prawn]

Main WQ always end at the same time as AQ,although there are two main wq in NodKrai

[shell heart]

The reed miller and ?

Moon fragments?

[queen prawn]

Frostmoon scion

[shell heart]

Okay

[queen prawn]

Whatever Aila want traveler to do next

The free weapon don't have refine material yet so

Chance it could use Reed treasure but