🇱🇷 English Questions ✨

[tawdry flame]

I make a lot of grammar mistakes bc even the "grammatically incorrect" sentences sound correct to me

[zealous olive]

On the TOEFL I got: early-C2 listening, mid-C1 writing, upper-B2 speaking, mid-B2 reading: early-C1 overall

😉

[tawdry flame]

yeah personally I'll stick with C1
I'll read more and get into Literature/writing but I'll keep my slang and colloquialisms

[zealous olive]

But for some reason I get mid-C1 on Duolingo English test, early-C2 on the SAT, early-C2 on IELTS

[tawdry flame]

I'm native so it doesn't really matter anyway lol

[zealous olive]

lol g4u

I have to do it for scholarships

[tawdry flame]

I'd say ur most of the way there ngl

[zealous olive]

I need to get higher for scholarships, sadly...

[tawdry flame]

ig you'll just have to bare with the harsh grading

[zealous olive]

I just suck at tests

[tawdry flame]

bear

[zealous olive]

🫠

[tawdry flame]

see I can't spell

[zealous olive]

Actually, I have met English natives who haven't passed 英検準１級

[tawdry flame]

are u in America

[zealous olive]

(borderline B2/C1 exam)

[zealous olive]

Nope

I'm in Okinawa

Hence I'm native in it

I would love to attend an uni in the US if I went for free

[tawdry flame]

oh ig that was another person

[zealous olive]

via scholarship

[zealous olive]

Yeah you're proabably thinking of someone else.

[tawdry flame]

what do u need to pass

at least C1 per part?

[zealous olive]

mid-C1

I was at early-C1

Well or a 700 in the SAT reading

Still stuck in the 600-690 range

My next one is the May SAT

[wise arrow]

@zealous olive @zealous olive @zealous olive

[vital echo]

don’t spam ping

[lyric fractal]

i level up but still cant join the vc

hm hm

[dense hinge]

-vc

[solar jungle]

<a:staryellowcute:1040962650609303682>　Why can't I access VCs?　<a:staryellowcute:1040962650609303682>

VCs are locked until a member has attained the Level 1+ rank in order to better prevent trolls from disturbing VCs.

To reach Level 1+ rank, send messages in text channels until @lavish prairie sends you a level-up message.

There is a cooldown between messages so spamming will not work. You also can't gain EXP in bot and #shiritori channels.

To check your rank/level and current EXP, please use :?rank in the #bots channel.

[dense hinge]

hm, maybe just wait a few minutes

[lyric fractal]

hmm

should i level up more?

is there anyone in there?

[inner aspen]

Impressive(really awesome) + quality (feature)

[lament copper]

help to learn englich please?

[vital echo]

the word "quality" can have many meanings depending on the context. in this sentence, the context suggests that the word "quality" refers to a person's personal characteristics or traits. so this sentence is basically saying; "Presence is an impressive characteristic."

i hope this helped :3

[vital echo]

read, watch, then talk maybe?

[tawdry flame]

guys why do u keep answering the first one 😭
that person isn't even here anymore

[vital echo]

lol, true, it's one year old

which is eternity in terms of discord

[fiery coral]

this has nothing to do with the subject but i find incredibly funny that your bio has N+R 7/2/24 knowing that the past week has been full of elections in france and the right wing party ("RN") was said to win all of them

sounds like you wanted them to win lmao

[vital echo]

it has nothing to do with french politics. especially considering that i like in USA.

its the day i git with my gf

[sterile olive]

free scholarships are really rare in USA

especially for international students

i know japan has MEXT

thats why i wanna go for grad school

but US uni is super expensive

[zealous olive]

i am aware of that, but i am still trying

although I may have secured one with my DET (Duolingo English Test) score

oh btw, Im looking to attend US undergrad

in order to secure a few more I need to get a high TOEFL and SAT

[sterile olive]

gotcha

[sterile olive]

yep get a 1400 - 1500 SAT score minimum

you'll get a scholarship at a decent university

it may not be full but you will get some money discounted

and one more thing; you can work on campus while in the united states

and it helps you pay for tuition

[zealous olive]

I have a 1400 rn

My goal is 1550

hopefully 1600 but eh

[sterile olive]

W

[sterile olive]

ah also, i could help you on the toefl and usa college admissions if you could help me with jlpt prep and speaking practice!

[zealous olive]

I'll keep that in mind. Rn I'm working on improving my SAT and trying to get a perfect score on DET

I still have two free attempts (idk why Duolingo keeps giving me free attempts but oh well)

I might take ACT and TOEFL in October

[zealous olive]

Also depends on your level of JLPT you're aiming for rn. If it's like N5/N4 I might have time to correct it from time to time. If it's N3+, I usually spend much more time correcting mistakes etc.

[sterile olive]

is the duolingo english test considered a valid score for USA university admissions?

[zealous olive]

But things because a lil messy during the summer

[sterile olive]

yeah, n5-n4 lmao

[zealous olive]

Most of the schools I'm applying for, yes.

[sterile olive]

gotcha

i recommend applying to a mediocre public university with a really good score if you want good scholarships

cause most good universities don't give out even 30% scholarships to international students

and domestic students get their aid from federal and state grants

even they have trouble with scholarships but they can usually get the cost down by 80-90% off

[zealous olive]

My goal is to get it <7,000 USD per year

[sterile olive]

that's a good goal

i'm going to University of North Texas this fall

[zealous olive]

That's awesome

[sterile olive]

it's a good university with good academics, but i'm going to end up paying at least 7,000 per semester

[zealous olive]

Depends, if you get into stanford, financial aid usually gets it <6,000 USD average for ppl earning under 100k USD

[sterile olive]

i have to do undergraduate research and get some scholarships and grants + keep my gpa up

[sterile olive]

yeah, but again-- international students don't really benefit much from that

[zealous olive]

?

[sterile olive]

guess im misinformed

stanford seems like an exception

interesting

[zealous olive]

I once used a net price calculator for international students for JHU

It said $26 per year 🤣

[sterile olive]

bruh

[zealous olive]

idk tho lol

[sterile olive]

that's wild

there's no way

[zealous olive]

But most university net price calculators gave me a range between 2,000-7,000

USD ofc

[sterile olive]

right

that's good

if you can pay 3000 per semester you're golden

books and dorms will cost you more

bro

the system is actually messed up here

[zealous olive]

this was dorms and books inclusive ^^^

[zealous olive]

same with this^^^

[sterile olive]

did you do an aid calculator?

[zealous olive]

yeah

[sterile olive]

yeah

makes sense

cause i'm an international student even though i've been living here for 10 years

i don't have a green card so i don't get aid

my dad makes 170k USD per year

but most of that is taken away by expenses and taxes and mortgage

so even though i can barely afford college i don't get any aid because of the average household income

[zealous olive]

Ah I see

[sterile olive]

yep

[zealous olive]

Due to the weakening yen, my household is down to about 25k USD per year

[sterile olive]

ah gotcha

are you planning to go back to japan after college?

[zealous olive]

Yeah stanford tries to give as much aid for ppl <150k and dorm+supplies too if <100k

[zealous olive]

Likely, yeah

Unless I get offered a good job

then different story

[sterile olive]

which major will you study?

[zealous olive]

My hope is genetics or something similar

bioinformatics, biostatistics, molecular biology

[sterile olive]

biology, huh? sounds cool

[zealous olive]

Yeah

Currently working on a passion project

While talking to you

[sterile olive]

i'm a computer science major but a philosophy nerd at heart, so i'll be doing a dual degree

b.s. in computer science and b.a. in philosophy

[zealous olive]

Ah if I could do dual major then maybe b.s. molec bio + b.a. visual arts mb

[sterile olive]

will finish in 5 years instead of 4 but /shrug

[zealous olive]

I see...

[sterile olive]

interesting!

[sterile olive]

oh cool, what project? if you don't mind sharing

[zealous olive]

Analyzing Bird DNA

[sterile olive]

whoa cool! where are you getting your samples?

oh wait

you don't need samples do you

[zealous olive]

no

using NCBI for now

[sterile olive]

gotcha

[zealous olive]

I found out about it from my bio teacher

[sterile olive]

are you analyzing it from computer programs?

[zealous olive]

Yes, (on R code)

[sterile olive]

gotcha, you can code?

[zealous olive]

I just started learning R, but I have done Python, Javascript (and some website making in HTML/CSS) in the past

I plan on learning Java next year (because school)

[sterile olive]

すごい！same here

except R

i don't know R

[zealous olive]

My family is well-versed in CS

but I want to work in molec bio

[sterile olive]

sounds like an awesome dream

do your best! i'm sure you will do great

i want to be a philosophy professor

and write books

[zealous olive]

Awesome! (You wanna hop onto DMs so we don't clog this space?)

[sterile olive]

sure :)

[hardy valley]

where can i learn jp?

[wraith canyon]

depends on you

if you want to learn through books there are many free resources

and if you want to take a course there are many reliable courses

[vital echo]

how do you type in japanese symbals on english keyboared

[small stream]

https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/how-to-install-japanese-keyboard/

[vital echo]

ty

[sterile olive]

#1270118042642415807

[fiery coral]

i figured but out of context i found it hilarious 😂

[chilly trench]

what do i do here

[fiery coral]

great question

[small stream]

Philosophical, even

[vivid steeple]

Hey

[rich thunder]

Hey everyone! What’s a good pace of learning kana each day? How many to drill per day?

[small stream]

It depends on you: how much time you have, what your study goals are...but, personally I would recommend focusing on a new consonant sound every study session (which means voiced consonants, with dakuten and handakuten, get their own practice days.) Draw them repeatedly, on paper, on your phone, or even in the air with your finger. Find a resource where you can listen to a native speaker say each sound and practice saying them over and over while you do this. At the start of each study, try to write and say every kana you've learned so far in order.

This may be a slower pace than some will recommend (we get a lot of people in here going "I did it in two days lol") but it will give each character adequate time to cement in your long-term memory instead of trying to cram the entire chart into your short-term memory all at once. It'll also begin the work of handwriting and pronunciation if those are important to you, but the main benefit is creating additional context with your hands and mouth for your brain to associate with the characters.

Because Japanese has approx. five vowels and fourteen consonants (on paper if not in practice) this means that if you do this every day, you'd be done with hiragana and katakana in a month. Every other day, two months. Maybe if you did hiragana and katakana simultaneously (I don't recommend this) then you could get through it in a month by studying every other day.

(also #jpn-questions is for questions about Japanese, this is for talking about the English language.)

[rich thunder]

Great advice, thank you so much! I like the slow and steady approach for cementing the info

[sterile olive]

i learned hiragana in one day and am still learning katakana

its been 2 months since i learned hiragana

my point is to go steady and not burn yourself out

[rich thunder]

Sweet, thank you so much 🙏

[violet topaz]

hey guys, Any japanese podcast recommendation for high beginners?

[languid stream]

not really an english question :D but https://open.spotify.com/show/4W4jYoKRmjlURKO1fIfcOK

or https://www.youtube.com/@yuyunihongopodcast if you're a bit more advanced

otherwise people also recommend https://www.youtube.com/@JapanesewithShun/featured https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/akokitamura/ https://open.spotify.com/show/4gGzsAVIw8CesfrfZ78TDY

[violet topaz]

I mistook it as English Channel, thank u for answering kindly

[thorn venture]

Hello guys

[daring vigil]

hello

[frigid wraith]

hey folks~

[arctic copper]

Hello Guys

[vital echo]

Hallo

[plucky slate]

yoo guyss I need help

from where shall I begin?

[wheat glacier]

hiii guys im planning to learn japanese but idk how to start (btw i hv alr rmb hiragana n katakana)

r there any tips?

[unreal crag]

why the liberian flag?

[cursive crescent]

It's a joke

[unreal crag]

hey at least their official language is english so it’s not inaccurate

[long talon]

What's the difference between kanji and Chinese character? Did China copied kanji?

[languid stream]

the other way around

chinese characters (called Kanji in Japan, hanzi in chinese, hanja in korean) originally come from china

japan and korea took the chinese writing system and adapted it to fit their language better

they are still similar, but there are differences between them

that being said, you can say "chinese characters" or "kanji" for japanese, since "kanji" literally means "kan = old name for china" and "ji = letters, characters"

also this chat is for questions about english
for questions about japanese, ask in #jpn-questions

[long talon]

Thank you for correcting me. Some people have been saying that Chinese culture, writing and tradition were copied from Japan.

[languid stream]

neither japan nor china copied each other

they are both very distinct cultures with rich history

in that sense, all of europe "copied" the same writing system yk... it's actually really interesting that china, korea and japan have different writing systems despite their history

they just happen to have traded a lot, meaning that a lot of chinese things came to japan and a lot of japan things went to china

historically tho, japan got more things from china than the other way around
writing system, buddhism, a lot of foods (like ramen and gyoza), etc, to name a few

• a lot of initial sciences also came from china (politics, medicine, army, etc)

ofc all of those were adapted to fit japan better

later on, as japan developed more, they exported things to china (including some new kanji created in japan!!)

japan then got a lot of influence from europe too (in the 1700~1900s) so that has influenced the culture

[gaunt nova]

no they ARE confusion

oops

sorry

[fervent thistle]

It's okay, I forgot I sent that message then.

[hollow sage]

how do i know no one here is lying about there gender

[left aurora]

hello guys

i am from India nice to meet you

[dark cradle]

their gender shouldn't matter anyway, so no worries

[steel tapir]

Hello everyone

[cursive crescent]

<@&789963123204554792>
Bot again?

[steel tapir]

._.

[earnest flume]

Lol why are we using the flag of liberia as the english flag

i mean yeah, techinally they do speak english there, but its hardly the first country that comes to mind when i think about english

[tawdry flame]

It's irony

[left aurora]

ayo wassup guys

[river cosmos]

What is the recommended first steps if I would like to focus on speaking and listening japanese?

[languid stream]

to listen
You can start listening with materials for learners (that use simple Japanese) and then use a textbook alongside it to learn grammar and vocabulary

Depending on what genre of things you wanna listen to (fantasy anime is very different to song lyrics or real life people talking etc), you should focus on one first, ideally something simple like slice of life stuff

You can also use https://animelon.com/ (they have triple subs for anime - English, Japanese, and Japanese using English letters, so you can listen and read along while you learn the writing systems (if you want to learn to read them.. But it's hard to find resources that don't use hiragana, so you kinda have to)

Btw, this is a question for #jpn-questions or #1052958148182421565

There are some pinned messages in #1052958148182421565 about immersion too btw

[devout valve]

👍

[karmic oasis]

is this the text channel?

[tacit sleet]

Hello, everybody

What's this channel for?

[languid stream]

It's for questions about the English language

[tacit sleet]

Oh, thank you for let me know

[tame jacinth]

i'd like to ask for a kanji identification but i cant send media, could someone help? thanks!

[languid stream]

this channel is for questions about english
this is a #jpn-questions question :D
can you send media there? or in #media

also, have you tried using google lens and handwriting on google translate?

[tame jacinth]

ohh i found a site! thanks

[silent yoke]

hello...

i'm newbie here, and just started to learn japanese, nice to meet you all

[worthy furnace]

How to spell alphabet

[vital echo]

Hey !
I’m super new to Japanese and honestly have no idea where to start 😅. I joined here hoping to learn the basics and maybe pick up some study tips from you awesome people.
If anyone has beginner-friendly advice or resources, I’d be super grateful 🙏.\

[languid stream]

-new

[solar jungle]

New to learning Japanese?

:JLSS: So you want to learn JP but don't know where to start nor what resources are recommended? Here are the list of channels that may help!

✦　Resources　✦

#1021218178153582593
Basic info on how to map your JP learning. Includes beginner guides

#1140025720807112714
Certified resources that are checked by mods

#resource-recommendations
Chat where learners send their own recommended resources

#1039947202312810546
Self explainable, for those who want a study buddy. The format is pinned

✦　Chats　✦

#話しましょう！-jpchannel
Main Japanese channel. Come say hi and practice your Japanese

#simple-japanese
JP channel for simpler Japanese

#jpn-questions
Amazing channel where people can help you understand confusing concepts of JP. Reminder to search for answers on Google etc first tho!

Good luck w your JP journey!

[languid stream]

Also #jpn-questions

This chat is for questions about English 😂

[languid stream]

<@&789963123204554792> sent this in 3 chats and it's their only message

[rancid surge]

Hello I just joined this server

[odd crescent]

Greetings everyone

@rancid surge same here

[tranquil wave]

-new

[solar jungle]

New to learning Japanese?

:JLSS: So you want to learn JP but don't know where to start nor what resources are recommended? Here are the list of channels that may help!

✦　Resources　✦

#1021218178153582593
Basic info on how to map your JP learning. Includes beginner guides

#1140025720807112714
Certified resources that are checked by mods

#resource-recommendations
Chat where learners send their own recommended resources

#1039947202312810546
Self explainable, for those who want a study buddy. The format is pinned

✦　Chats　✦

#話しましょう！-jpchannel
Main Japanese channel. Come say hi and practice your Japanese

#simple-japanese
JP channel for simpler Japanese

#jpn-questions
Amazing channel where people can help you understand confusing concepts of JP. Reminder to search for answers on Google etc first tho!

Good luck w your JP journey!

[minor lichen]

hey

hai dekimasu.

[next marlin]

hiiiiiiiii

[runic kiln]

heyy

[tranquil wave]

hey there

[devout tangle]

hi

Anyone know how many chat messages i need to level up and hangout in VC? :p

[regal creek]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[solar jungle]

New to learning Japanese?

:JLSS: So you want to learn JP but don't know where to start nor what resources are recommended? Here are the list of channels that may help!

✦　Resources　✦

#1021218178153582593
Basic info on how to map your JP learning. Includes beginner guides

#1140025720807112714
Certified resources that are checked by mods

#resource-recommendations
Chat where learners send their own recommended resources

#1039947202312810546
Self explainable, for those who want a study buddy. The format is pinned

✦　Chats　✦

#話しましょう！-jpchannel
Main Japanese channel. Come say hi and practice your Japanese

#simple-japanese
JP channel for simpler Japanese

#jpn-questions
Amazing channel where people can help you understand confusing concepts of JP. Reminder to search for answers on Google etc first tho!

Good luck w your JP journey!

[unique haven]

Hello

I’m new

[fervent thistle]

Hello, hi..

[bronze nacelle]

hello!

[fast lantern]

hello

[grave bobcat]

hey guys

[long stirrup]

how can i learn japanese i have 6 years to become fluent

[languid stream]

welp, they were too impatient to get an answer it seems

must really be in a hurry

[fervent thistle]

Hello

[hasty leaf]

Hi, what's up?

[fervent thistle]

Just wondering if anyone would respond. How are you?

[hasty leaf]

Not bad, what's about you?

[weary swallow]

sumimasen how can i get some help to learn japanese

[languid stream]

#jpn-questions #1052958148182421565

ask an actual question tho, not just "can i get help"

[radiant pivot]

how can i learn japanese here

[dense hinge]

--new

-new

[solar jungle]

New to learning Japanese?

:JLSS: So you want to learn JP but don't know where to start nor what resources are recommended? Here are the list of channels that may help!

✦　Resources　✦

#1021218178153582593
Basic info on how to map your JP learning. Includes beginner guides

#1140025720807112714
Certified resources that are checked by mods

#resource-recommendations
Chat where learners send their own recommended resources

#1039947202312810546
Self explainable, for those who want a study buddy. The format is pinned

✦　Chats　✦

#話しましょう！-jpchannel
Main Japanese channel. Come say hi and practice your Japanese

#simple-japanese
JP channel for simpler Japanese

#jpn-questions
Amazing channel where people can help you understand confusing concepts of JP. Reminder to search for answers on Google etc first tho!

Good luck w your JP journey!

[radiant pivot]

yah i'm new here

[glad goblet]

hey

[fervent thistle]

Hi

[weary comet]

Hi

[ornate thicket]

Hi

[cinder talon]

How many minutes a day will help learn japanese the most efficitive way?

[languid stream]

1,440 💯

on a serious note, for as long as you can concentrate

which might be hours a day if you're someone with a lot of free time,
or it might be an hour per week if you're busy

you should be expecting hours tho, not minutes

[zealous olive]

Idk, from personal experience learning languages, I felt like a little over 8 hours a day (c. 500 minutes) was a pretty good sweet spot. That with 8 hours 40 minutes of sleeping, 3 hours of quiet, and 4 hours in all other languages.

That being said, most people don't usually have that kind of time. (I only do it during breaks or whatever, which is eh)

Take it as a grain of salt, though. Everyone's experience is different.

[sleek sierra]

one approach i found to help is to not necessarily devote a large chunk of time to practice, but lots of small bite-sized practice bits, to focus on one thing ... i used the same approach while learning guitar, kept my interest high, and i didn't have to force myself to focus as time when on. so for example, if you're just starting out, and learning hiragana, you focus on one column, and maybe practice writing it for 5 minutes, or if you have an app, quiz yourself for a few minutes. then go do something else, and you try to do this throughout the day, so that you get to an hour or two of practice.

[zealous olive]

That's fair. I can tell most people don't have language learning among the top 3 things they like to do as a hobby

[coarse delta]

hello

[sleek sierra]

hello and welcome!

[steel tapir]

Hello

[languid stream]

Lmao

This is a channel for asking questions about English

Not for greeting each other 😂

Are you guys looking for #lounge or do you have a question?

[teal loom]

日本語を使ってもいい？

おはよう

[languid stream]

If you have a question about English that you want to ask in Japanese :D

[zealous olive]

Why does English call oncology "oncology" and not "tumorology"?

I don't see the connection here sadly.

(Even with my C2 certification in English, I seem to not understand some words)

[tawdry flame]

The same way you don't say lifeology for biology or heartology for cardiology

The names of scientific areas of study (-ology) were developed with Greek roots, not Latin like "tumor"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-logy

The suffix more than likely wasn't "productive" at the time and was only used in specific words, particularly those with Greek roots

Even then, might have just been the standard to use Greek words (with Greek suffixes) in science and medicine

https://www.etymonline.com/word/oncology
https://www.etymonline.com/word/onco-

[languid stream]

<@&789963123204554792>
Scam / unapproved (I assume) self-promo

[zealous olive]

Huh, that's interesting, thank you for the explanation

Also, maybe my understanding of the word "the" is incorrect

I always thought of it being honorifying or making something special like Japanese did with お/ご for some words

I mean you have THE NY Times, Facebook was almost called The Facebook until the creator of Winny advised Zuckerberg against naming it that.

@tribal sentinel could you help me understand the word "the" a little better?

[tawdry flame]

Look into definite and indefinite articles

The is more specific

[zealous olive]

Yes, I feel like definite articles honorifies by being specific

[zealous olive]

especially considering this

The Japanese usually think "the" is quite pretentious

[tawdry flame]

Kinda yeah

But we normally don't see it as such in English

It's just more specific

[tribal sentinel]

"The" in English is not used at all similarly to お/ご in Japanese

[zealous olive]

I see. I guess that's how Japanese people tend to view it that way

[tribal sentinel]

Both can give a similar vibe in some uses, but that's just a coincidence - not because they're similar

[zealous olive]

The general idea is similar in my opinion, even if it is applied to a different set of words

[tawdry flame]

I mean fair tbh

[zealous olive]

What is honored depends on the culture

in Japan is stuff like "greeting" and food/drinks (esp. traditional)

[tribal sentinel]

"The" in English is used to single out one object in a set of others. This can sometimes have the side effect of painting that object in a higher light
お/ご can also paint objects in a higher light, but not in a similar way or for similar reasons, and the two structures can't serve similar purposes in any other way

[tawdry flame]

But usually one is for more established words and topics

[zealous olive]

In English culture, it is about the possession or superiority or singling out

uniqueness I should say

You honor what is specifically unique

[tribal sentinel]

お茶 is not more similar to "the tea" than it is to "tea"

[zealous olive]

In the bottom, left it sounds like お there

[tawdry flame]

Yk

I actually get it

I can't explain it but I understand what u mean

[zealous olive]

彼は私からお金を盗んだ。
彼は私から金を盗んだ。

[tribal sentinel]

Are you saying the first one has a nuance of "He stole a specific, mutually-known quantity of money from me" ?

[tawdry flame]

It's not 1:1 but yk it's cool how one can draw different similarities based on their native tongue, even if they're not technically the same at all

[zealous olive]

yeah

[tribal sentinel]

....that doesn't seem right to me

I wouldn't know because I'm just a beginner, but I don't feel like the presence or lack of お is changing the specificity of the money in this sentence whatsoever

[zealous olive]

The first one has the idea of honorizing the money and thereby singling it out in my eyes. That's why one says お茶を飲む instead of 茶を飲む

for tea

[tribal sentinel]

Right. "The" serves no such purpose

[zealous olive]

The Japanese お/ご like most things say, also adds an extra connotation

of gratifying

but still, it is a subset of the word "the" imo

[tribal sentinel]

Using お in this sentence raises the importance/whatever of the money
Using "the" in this sentence would completely change the nuance of the entire sentence

[zealous olive]

This is how I see it

[tribal sentinel]

He stole money from me
= [focus is on the fact that this man is a thief]

He stole the money from me
= You know that sum of money that you and me are both familiar with (maybe because we talked about it earlier)? It was stolen! [focus is on the fact that the speaker lost something important]

[tribal sentinel]

Def not. お/ご has some functions that "the" does not have. You can not always use "the" in place of お/ご

[zealous olive]

I mean by using お/ご I feel like you also mutually know

[zealous olive]

I think you can (or at least there is a definite article there)

お__世話__になります I will be in the hospitality of yours

[tribal sentinel]

I really don't feel like that's a similar function to "the"

Maybe I'm wrong tho

But it feels like a huge stretch to try and draw similarities between the two just because they sometimes provide a somewhat similar side effect on the nuance of the sentence

[zealous olive]

maybe there is some difference, as most people say, there is the gratifying aspect

but I feel like there is at least a huge overlap if not a type of "the"

Maybe my C2 English was not enough for me

🙃

[tawdry flame]

I mean you're communicating well

People understanding just isn't always a guarantee I reckon

[zealous olive]

Fair enough

I'll end my conversation here then

I'll think about it for a while

[tribal sentinel]

This could technically be translated this way, but there are about 20 more natural-sounding translations that don't use "the"

[zealous olive]

Fair, because English doesn't allow the word "the" after a possession (except in older variations of English where it would be natural)

[tribal sentinel]

I do think I'm understanding what you're saying btw, I just think it's more of a coincidence than any inherent quality of either grammar point

It's enough to say "in some very specific cases they can give a somewhat overlapping nuance by coincidence"
But it's far too much to imply they're similar structures or have any sort of relationship

[zealous olive]

"the xxx of yyy" is no longer natural for English these days

very confusing when I have to work with languages like Dutch (where it is natural)

[tribal sentinel]

It's very, very natural in some contexts in modern English.
"The exterior of this home"
"The walls of my bedroom"
"The city of Seattle"
"The school of Athens"
"The room of books"
"The son of John"
"The surface of Mars"
"The speed of light"

[zealous olive]

Eh, would't you say otherwise?

This home's exterior
The bedroom walls
Seattle
(the school of Athens is slightly old when English found out)
The bookroom, or the room filled with books, or the library, or something
John's son
The Martian surface
(At) light speed

The city of Seattle sounds like it is on the news

which to an extent is formal

kind of like お/ご

[tribal sentinel]

"The surface of Mars" is 10,000 more natural than "The Martian surface" in every possible context

[zealous olive]

well I suppose because it tends to be more formal

The Martian surface looked dirty, as if someone had sprinked iron pepper in it...

that would be not so much so

[tribal sentinel]

To me, "The Martian surface" feels like it should be describing something built from "Martian" lol ("The surface made of Martian")

It would only be acceptable in a documentary or in highly technical writing or something

[zealous olive]

The wikipedia page for it is Martian surface

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_surface

idk

[tribal sentinel]

That would qualify as highly technical writing

[tribal sentinel]

So I should rephrase this. It does sound more natural in every context, but in some contexts it's more important to be technical rather than natural, so it's still used sometimes

[tribal sentinel]

But regardless, this is certainly not true! :)

[zealous olive]

"Mars Odyssey mission created the first global map of chemical elements and minerals that make up the Martian surface."

[tribal sentinel]

"The X of Y" is something I come across dozens of times per day and sounds perfect to my ears. Very natural

[zealous olive]

https://science.nasa.gov/mars/

[tribal sentinel]

Also highly technical

NASA is also trying to add drama to their writing, so they intentionally choose words like "Martian" because they sound more dramatic, futuristic, and abnormal. In a real-life conversation it would catch people off guard to phrase it that way

[zealous olive]

maybe C2 English makes me highly technical ig

Probably the down side of it

[tawdry flame]

It does sound pretty fancy but I think it's more about collocations and conventional phrases

[zealous olive]

When language exams are completely useless 🙃

[tribal sentinel]

"The speed of light" will be about 100x more common than "Light's speed", for example (and "Light speed" is a completely different term)
Same for "The speed of sound"

[zealous olive]

Lightspeed is still a thing

but maybe you're right

I had just learned that you either make compound words of xxx's yyy for easier readability (or use a different word sometimes)

[tribal sentinel]

"Lightspeed" is a different term entirely

"The speed of light" = a general noun ("The speed of light is ~kmh", "He was travelling at the speed of light")
"Lightspeed" = a quantifier of speed ("He's cruising at lightspeed", "Lightspeed is ~kmh" (unnatural))

[zealous olive]

Oh I thought English uses "Mach 1" for the speed of sound.

[tribal sentinel]

It can, but "the speed of sound" is about equally common

Used in different context

[tawdry flame]

Soundspeed

[zealous olive]

moving at light speed or something

idk

[tawdry flame]

I mean think of it like this you probably wouldn't say "donuts' box" instead of "box of donuts"

I'd like one of the red ones

[zealous olive]

a donut box

?

[tawdry flame]

Unnatural

[tribal sentinel]

"A donut box" is unnatural, yeah

[tawdry flame]

I think it's more that one sounds like they're two separate items and the other sounds more "specific"

[zealous olive]

I filled donuts using my donut box

Idk

[tribal sentinel]

You filled donuts using your donut box!? 😂

[zealous olive]

I had received donut box filled with donuts

[tribal sentinel]

That sounds terrifying

[zealous olive]

I mean the donut box is the box itself

[tawdry flame]

A box of donuts
There's donuts and there's a box that they're in
A donut box
A box that is specifically made to put donuts in¿

[zealous olive]

since donut is the adjective here

[tribal sentinel]

"A donut box" could also be a box made of donuts... lol
Or a box in the shape of a donut

[tawdry flame]

True

[tribal sentinel]

But "a box of donuts" is simply a box that contains donuts. Used all the time

[zealous olive]

Eh, according to the dictionary, I don't think so

[tawdry flame]

It depends heavily on the context I guess

[zealous olive]

12 x 8.5 x 3 inches for a 6 piece, and 17 x 12.5 x 3 inches for a 12 piece

[tribal sentinel]

what

[zealous olive]

That's how I memorized the American donut box for some reason.

[tribal sentinel]

I have never heard of "The American donut box" in my life

Donuts come in like 5,000 different boxes in America

[tawdry flame]

If I was in a make believe world where there were boxes made of donuts I would just call it a donut box fs

[tribal sentinel]

And there is no standard size

[zealous olive]

fs?

[tawdry flame]

For sure

[zealous olive]

Ah I see

Some designs, like the classic "pink box," are culturally associated with the Cambodian-American donut industry in California.

Idk

That's what I learned when memorizing that word

[tawdry flame]

Sometimes I don't understand why we don't say something like "card house" for "house of cards"

[tribal sentinel]

What word?

"donut box" ?

[tawdry flame]

But I guess it is what it is

[zealous olive]

a donut box

yeah

[tribal sentinel]

Hmm..... I wouldn't really consider that a "word"

[zealous olive]

A phrase?

[tribal sentinel]

Tbh I don't think I've ever heard an American say "donut box" in my life

[tawdry flame]

Tbf

If u were working with boxes at a donut shop

[tribal sentinel]

Oh true

[tawdry flame]

It might come up

[tribal sentinel]

You wanted to specify you need a donut box and not a pizza box or whatnot

[tawdry flame]

But it's still different from a box of donuts

[zealous olive]

Yeah, maybe I went to Dunkin' Donuts too often when I was in Okinawa and had a friend bring me to a military base.

[tribal sentinel]

Essentially just "I need a box (of the variety intended to hold donuts)"

But yeah that's a whole different thing

[zealous olive]

A donut box filled with donuts.

Hey, can you fill my donut box up (full of donuts)?

[tribal sentinel]

If it's filled with donuts, it's not a donut box. It's a box of donuts 100% of the time

[zealous olive]

I see

[tribal sentinel]

I do think Tom's right that the term "donut box" could theoretically come up in some very very specific situations

[zealous olive]

I hate that the CEFR doesn't test you on this.

I am so mad at the examiners to an extent

🙃

[tribal sentinel]

It's alright. Your English is very good

This is the type of stuff you can only really intuit if you've lived and breathed a single language for 20 years straight

[zealous olive]

Meanwhile I'm under that age

[tribal sentinel]

It's not something you can expect anybody to be taught explicitly

[zealous olive]

🙃

[tribal sentinel]

Yeah so don't even worry about it

[zealous olive]

Anyways thanks for that.

I see that sometimes it is natural to say something in the format of "the xxx of yyy".

[tribal sentinel]

Yes! :)

Which you probably already knew and just had never really thought about before

But now you still know it and have thought about it lol

[zealous olive]

I actually did not know about it.

[tribal sentinel]

Even better then! Learned something new

[zealous olive]

I was taught for my CEFR test prep for English to just focus on finding a synonym or just some how use the possessor then the possessive.

With the usage of "by" and "of" being redundant.

[tribal sentinel]

Very interesting

[zealous olive]

oh and "got" too.

The only times you use "of" is only when it is necessary because it is part of a phrase.

E.g., "full of", "a certain amount of", etc.

Usually, those were quanitifiers of some sort.

[tribal sentinel]

Well now you know better 😎

Brain expansion pack

[zealous olive]

I suppose for non-testing taking purposes and formalities, it is important to be natural than be grammatically perfect.

[tribal sentinel]

Definitely. Although do keep in mind that "box of donuts", "school of Athens", "speed of light", etc. are both natural and grammatically perfect

So you don't have to worry about choosing one or the other :)

[zealous olive]

the school of Athens I understand because English adopted the term before contemporary era English.

This is the same with many other things such as things in the Bible.

Like you said, "the son of John".

[tribal sentinel]

That's also used often in modern-day English.
(at a work party)
"Do you know who that guy is?"
"I'm not sure but I think he's the son of the CEO"

Don't get too hung up on the rules lol. All of these things are natural just because. Not because they're old or anything like that

[zealous olive]

I was taught one would use "I am not exactly confident; yet, I have heard rumors that he is the CEO's son."

[zealous olive]

Fair enough.

[tribal sentinel]

"Humans have finally landed on the surface of the moon"
"I gently touched the soft skin of her face"
"I cried tears of joy"
"It's that time of year again"
"Baseball players are often called 'The Boys of Summer'"
"I would like one box of donuts please"
"I bought a carton of eggs"
"I plucked a single blade of grass"
"There was a massive field of wheat next to my home growing up"

[tribal sentinel]

That would be old/literary + hyper formal usages. If you said this to someone in 2026 they'd either laugh or be creeped out lol

[zealous olive]

The Boys of Summer is a name

[zealous olive]

Oh, I thought the old version of English would be, "I am not passing sure; nevertheless, 'tis whispered in the wind that he be the very seed of the Master Governor."

[tribal sentinel]

Again, don't focus on the details too much. Just remember "(the/a/an) X of Y" is incredibly common, normal, modern, and grammatical in English. No ifs or buts about it

[tribal sentinel]

That would also qualify lol

[zealous olive]

That was basically how I wrote in my AP English Literature essay.

I got a four on the exam, so I guess it was satisfactory enough.

[tawdry flame]

I'm 19 does that still count

[tribal sentinel]

Hmm, maybe 20 was a bit much 😂 Maybe more like 16-20

[zealous olive]

Maybe it was because my English teacher had a Ph. D in English Composition and a Masters in the Russian Language.

During my high school years, I mean.

[zealous olive]

I learned English for about 17-18 years. 😔

[tribal sentinel]

I mean there's no harm in being able to input and output using literary and archaic forms, as long as you can separate them from modern usages in your mind

[zealous olive]

That's how we talked.

[zealous olive]

This, I mean.

[tawdry flame]

Oh my god it's yaoi

[tribal sentinel]

Gotta live in an English-speaking country using only English for that time too tho

[zealous olive]

I use English more than I use Japanese to be honest.

But fair enough.

[tawdry flame]

I've fallen in love with the ceo's son!!

[zealous olive]

Alas, mine heart hath been ensnared by the Master Governor’s own kin!

[tawdry flame]

U get it

[zealous olive]

Yes, I h'apprehended as such.

I do not know how English contracts ha' and apprehend in the past tense.

Okinawan is my first language, English my second, and Japanese my third.

Japanese is something I have learned since the age of six or seven when I started mandatory education.

I still see Japanese and English as native languages due to my upbringing.

[zealous olive]

I can speak a fraction of each of the languages mentioned in my eyes.

I feel like I speak zero languages sometimes.

🙃

[zealous olive]

That is a question I shall leave this channel with.

My guess is that English does not contract this and goes straight with "have apprehended" when one uses English from the 1600s.

If anyone is an expert in modern English, please do let me know.

[teal loom]

dang ass saxon genitive and norman genitive

[tawdry flame]

Indeedio my friend

I really don't like 's tbh

It's fine in set phrases but the moment u have to say more than a few things it's so bleugh

The Norman genitive can't fix that but it sounds fancier and so I like it more by default

[tribal sentinel]

I love just straight up slapping the nouns together

[tawdry flame]

Kyle's mom's friend's husband's dog's gonna need u to watch him tonight okay sweetie

[tribal sentinel]

English: "hand soap"
French: "soap for the hands"

Makes me feel superior to use fewer words

💅

[tawdry flame]

That's a good one

[tribal sentinel]

Ngl tho this is so easy to read. It might look and feel ugly, but structurally it's so concise and intuitive

[tawdry flame]

What if it's soap made of hands tho

[tribal sentinel]

Baby oil

[tawdry flame]

I HATE IT JUST SAY THEIR NAME

Ur gonna have to explain their relationship slowly I can't keep up

[teal loom]

tom'sn't

[tawdry flame]

Mods this woman is calling me slurs

Wait I'm using my server 1 personality with server 2

[teal loom]

(car (car (cdr (cdr (cons tom gomi)))))

[tawdry flame]

They're almost exactly the same I just ramble and use caps

[teal loom]

🧢

🧢 🧢 🧢

caps the tom

[tawdry flame]

Ur losing me again

[teal loom]

u r not use caps :o

[zealous olive]

I was told to always use the Saxon genitive for the CEFR

Since Norman genitive made things more informal

except for archaic usage

But for Contemporary English exams, I was told to try to use the Saxon genitive.

[zealous olive]

Me doing that with light speed

[zealous olive]

I don't like the word "of"

[lethal violet]

how do i begin learning this langauge? am i supposed to just start with the word of the day etc and can duolingo help

[languid stream]

I assume you mean Japanese and not English
(the correct chat is #jpn-questions , this chat is for questions about English)

And here's a starter guide : https://www.tofugu.com/learn-japanese/

But no, duolingo is generally considered quite bad

[lethal violet]

thank you very much

[main rock]

apparently it will help with the basic basic but then the lesson strutures dont actually make lots of sense

[sage ether]

Hello I would like some Japanese questions answered please

[languid stream]

1. #jpn-questions
2. don't start with "I would like a question answered", ask the questions

[teal loom]

こんにちは。英語によって問題があります。助けてありがたい。

[languid stream]

英語のついて？
助けてくれれば？ありがたい

🤔

[teal loom]

わすれちゃったww

[languid stream]

で、質問？問題？はなんですか？

[teal loom]

あっは、質問を出したなんて。
大概に、英語の言葉は日本語より曖昧があるんですか？　さらに、英語は長い言葉だが曖昧をかかることがもりあがっている感じます。　例えば、「main character syndrome」や「wokeness」や「grooming」は分からず嫌いを扇ぐ意味を表すなんて。つまり、英語で「vagueposting」や「thought-terminating cliche」という。

[languid stream]

一つ一つの単語は確かに日本語に比べて曖昧だね
日本語は漢字があるから

でも（複数の単語を使って）表現できることはそんなに変わらないよ

Wokeness などは曖昧な単語というより曖昧な概念だと思うね。他の言語でももちろん基本的に表現できるし、
Vague posting も他の言語でも起きてるんじゃない？

スラングは決まった意味や定義がないから、幅広に使われていたり、複数の違う意味で使われていたり、辞書に載っている訳ではないから違う意図で使う人も多いんじゃないかな

例えばこの間 unc は uncle の略か uncool 略か、どっちなのか、についての投稿を見たけど

結局 cool uncle ももちろんいるけど、歳をとると uncool uncle になるからわからないよねー的な感じで、unc をなんとなく似たような "you're old" と "you sound old and uncool" の意味で使っている

使い方が定着したら辞書に載って曖昧さがなくなることが多いよ

[teal loom]

そうか

[pliant delta]

hello chat

nice to meet you