#🗣 The Language Corner

1346 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

jaunty drift
#

yes me

sharp quest
#

mb

jaunty drift
#

i mean the uvular trill also appears in french

#

but its kind of dialectal

sharp quest
#

😓

glacial matrix
#

Uvular trill is upright R ain't it

jaunty drift
#

mhm

glacial matrix
#

ʀ

sharp quest
#

one of these days

#

i’ll get it

jaunty drift
#

<ʀ> yup

glacial matrix
#

How do I get the cool looking ones

sharp quest
#

good question

glacial matrix
#

⟨…⟩

jaunty drift
#

unicode is

#

unicodeish

glacial matrix
#

˩˥˥˩˦˥˩˨˩˨˧˦˧˦˥˩˧˩˥˩˥˦˩˥˩˩˥˦˥˩˦˥˦˩˨˨˩˨˩˨˨˦˥˩˦˥˩˦˥˦˥˩˦˩˥˦˦˥˩˨˧
Real accent pattern in my language

#

All of those combined

#

You gotta pronounce all that in one second

jaunty drift
#

ill just speak your language with the heaviest american accent possible and ignore all the accents

glacial matrix
#

:(

short locust
#

Picked this up from the library 😼

20231008_144653.jpg
glacial matrix
#

AHHH

#

I gotta see if I have that one

#

I DON'T

#

Depressed

amber robin
short locust
#

The beauty of libraries

#

This one's the national library so I have to go a tiny bit to get to it as opposed to the local ones 🥺

sharp quest
#

compared to english

#

how much has japanese changed in the past 2000 years? or ig 1000 if thats a more reasonable scope

#

because like... it seems as though a word like 紙 has literally been the same for a 1000 years+

#

白

#

like ... thats an old word that has changed relatively little...

#

if not simply following the general sound changes of a language

#

why is japanese so static?

#

i guess one possibility is that the more contact a language has with other languages the more it will change

#

like japanese has had relatively little contact with outside language other than korean and chinese as far as im aware

#

and that is acutely obvious when looking at loanwords in japanese being mostly chinese

#

until of course starting like 100 years ago or ig 150? or even further back when japanese started having a lot more contact with more languages

#

that would explain why japanese is changing so much right now. so so much english contact

#

pure speculation

sharp quest
#

also random thing. there was an italian girl in the guitar class i was in, and i noticed she say "cucumber" like "kukumber" like literally koo-koom-ber

#

and its just interesting to me how english is a language you can totally mess up all the vowels and still be understood

glacial matrix
#

Japanese has changed an awful lot since Old Japanese where have you been

#

Just bc one word remains consistent doesn't mean much and Wiktionary isn't the best place to find knowledge about its older forms to begin with or give much detail on how it might've changed

glacial matrix
#

The vocabulary being mostly Chinese though is due to the fact that Chinese influence was strong and writing became a thing that circulated for a bit (classical Chinese texts then developing their own writings from texts since lack of official writing system beforehand). Eventually when it came to modern day there is still some distinction between writing and actual spoken language. A lot of Sino-japanese words were used more in writing while native words persisted in speech.

sharp quest
sharp quest
glacial matrix
#

The development from OJ to NJ is just a bit over 1000 years (about 1300 years)
Anything before then is pre-OJ and proto language

sharp quest
#

OJ NJ?

glacial matrix
#

I don't really know any other languages to compare to though

glacial matrix
sharp quest
#

ah thats what i thought icic

short locust
#

WHAT IS THIS GOOGLE TRANSLATE
why does everyone have to use their own phonetic system instead of just using the standardddddd awoidhajw dhfuopahi sfrisahef
ALSO the translation is wrong, it translated to "sleeping place" 💀

sll.jpg
short locust
#

anyways this book looks like it's gonna be fun lmao

glacial matrix
#

Oh yeah a lot of what you'll see and hear are things Portuguese missionaries wrote about Japanese

#

They wrote a bit of books on Japanese and even developed their own romanization (although i don't think very consistent ofc)

#

Linguists use those to come up with ideas as to what Japanese was like back then as well

#

So they come up a lot when talking about history since they're like firsthand sources to what the language was like to non-natives

#

I think there were also Spanish missionaries

#

Yeah I don't know like a lot of the specific stuff

#

Someone with a better grasp of Japanese history could probably tell you who all came in and out of the country

glacial matrix
#

Man I should be doubling down on my history knowledge shouldn't I

short locust
#

you're the smart one

glacial matrix
#

I know -1 things

#

I don't do actual history so I'm not one to ask about like a specific war or the culture of japan back in whatever period

#

I know enough and what that means is I know a brief outline of historical events and that's it lol
Things like "these dudes started trading so now they got some loanwords from them"

#

I find it funny when dudes ask me about a highly specific word as if I've memorized all the words, their origins, and can pull out a timeline on the fly

#

like can you please about this one specific word you've probably never seen before bc I just came across its exact origins and wanna talk about it 🥺

#

I'm working more on the grammar side of things anyways

#

like where all these transitivity pairs come from, why is te form like that, where did this specific construction come from and how does it affect modern day grammar and nuance. things like that

glacial matrix
#

What's it go over

#

Does it have a table of contents?

#

Oh Blaine Erikson mentioned him in a book he wrote

#

This exact book you have he mentions lol

short locust
glacial matrix
#

Oh cool

#

Even includes senmyougaki

#

I guess that makes sense lol

#

I wonder how much this book is

#

$24 on Amazon

short locust
#

the cover looks at a glance like those bendy covers but it's actually very stiff for how thin it is

short locust
glacial matrix
short locust
#

Stiffy and the pencil machine

glacial matrix
#

I'd argue graphite is hard ink

#

But I digress

glacial matrix
#

Community colleges are everywhere man

#

We have multiple ones

short locust
#

maybe they have books on japanese 🥺

glacial matrix
#

Idk how their libraries are though

#

I can't go back to the public library anytime soon bc I have a severely overdue book on Japanese lol

short locust
#

don't they have a limit? if you can do it now i think it's better to return instead of holding on to it (unless it costs like half a kidney) i think the relief will be atleast good tho idk

glacial matrix
#

It'd be like $80

short locust
#

oh dam

glacial matrix
#

I think it was like the only book about Japanese there lol

#

And it's a weird workbook

#

I got it just to look at the grammar explanations but I kinda knew most ot what was in there so kinda pointless now

#

I also forgot to take it back

#

I wonder if I can buy it and pay $20 instead of $80
The thing is though, something tells me they'll charge for both instead of just the retail fee

#

The selling price

#

How did you go about looking into your, well I can't say local, library

#

The uni library

short locust
#

Iceland has this site called leitir.is (basically basically means searcher) that's connected to all the libaries so you can check if any library has that specific book and the status of it like if it's already taken or if it's available

#

and i saw that a few books were in the uni library

heady acorn
#

Sumn I found interesting:
Latvian
ķ & ģ
↓
Livonian
ț & ḑ (or maybe both a d-comma and a d-cedilla?)

(same sounds, different letters; maybe it's bc /c/ and /ɟ/ are kinda like in between /t/ & /d/ and /k/ & /g/ (from what I know) thinkkkk? Then again, I don't really know much abt linguistics, if anything at all aquacry Linguistics-ers, please correct me if I'm wrong (which I most definitely am))

short locust
#

btw for those unaware my husband has released a new video

#

I love when he describes so beautifully why dictionaries just generally suck

short locust
#

Like look at this 💀

20231017_144246.jpg
#

Red is actual text, blue is footnotes

amber robin
#

also this is so interesting

short locust
#

also this book is making wonder why wanikani is called that, i decided to look it up and someone on the wanikani forums said the thing I was thinking about but I don't know if it's official hehehe

amber robin
#

what's title of the book?

short locust
#

A history of writing in japan by Christopher Seeley

amber robin
amber robin
short locust
#

basically there was this korean dude in the 5th century whose name was wani and he taught people in japan how to read and write cause people didn't really understand it

#

and kani is there cause it rhyme 💅

amber robin
#

ohh

#

interesting

short locust
#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wani_(scholar)

Wani (scholar)

Wani (Japanese: 王仁, 和邇吉師, romanized: Wani, Wani Kishi) is a semi-legendary scholar who is said to have been sent to Japan by Baekje of southwestern Korea during the reign of Emperor Ōjin. He used to be associated with the introduction of the Chinese writing system to Japan.

#

"semi-legendary" lmao

#

he's mentioned in both kojiki and nihon shoki

#

i hope one day to achieve the title of semi-legendary

amber robin
#

leppur the semi-legendary linguist

short locust
#

wait this post also mentions semi-legendary lmao, idk why this is funny to me

amber robin
short locust
#

Exactly hehe

#

I think it's cause he's only mentioned in japanese history and not korean

glacial matrix
#

I know that dude

short locust
#

Yeah he made wanikani (real)

glacial matrix
#

We went to kindergarten together

glacial matrix
#

Bro's a legend

#

Oh sorry

#

Semi-legend*

#

This also plays into how Korea helped Japan develop Japanese writing

#

Which is often why people will say the writing system originated in korea

short locust
#

But it happened in Japan tho right? 🤔

glacial matrix
glacial matrix
#

I'm still studying the actual trade-off from mainland China, to Korea, to Japan

amber robin
short locust
#

those who agree say "aye"

#

aye

amber robin
#

aye

glacial matrix
#

Korea was playing with Chinese characters (similarly to Manyougana) long before it arrived in Japan. In fact, it was more than likely introduced to Japan from Baekje (백제) as I assume you can see from the article. Baekje and Japan had some ties as well and so when it was overtaken by Silla (신라), another kingdom on the Korean peninsula, a bunch of Baekje citizens immigrated to Japan, so there was likely a lot of influence from them as well.

Alexander Vovin has something on it, though; Whether katakana actually does come from Korea. It's only speculated afaik but it's not crazy.

#

Sorry that took so long I wanted to be fancy with Korean names

#

Korea (namely Baekje) was like the major bridge between China and Japan at the time so a lot of stuff came through there

#

Silla and Japan weren't so tight though

#

But I don't study the history of Korean and Japanese relations lol

#

Korea was centuries ahead with the Chinese influence. They were like right there. Japan was in the middle of the ocean so it wasn't like they were necessarily next door neighbors with China. Korean and Japan are close though, so Korea got some headstart then that eventually made its way to Japan.

short locust
#

yeah Baekje is a name you hear often when reading on this, i've barely scratched the surface of the book but Baekje has some prominance in this

glacial matrix
#

I like saying it in my head

#

Baekje and Silla

cosmic pewter
#

this is amazing

short locust
#

he's mixing articulatory phonetics and acoustic phonetics 🤔

glacial matrix
#

OH MY GOD I think I just got the pun waluigi's name is

cosmic pewter
glacial matrix
#

Is it supposed to be like

cosmic pewter
glacial matrix
#

悪いgi

short locust
cosmic pewter
#

oh ok

glacial matrix
#

I know nothing about Mario btw so I didn't know before

short locust
#

luigi 類似

glacial matrix
#

Interesting

short locust
#

i'd ping haru but they're probably asleep

amber robin
short locust
cosmic pewter
fringe pond
#

Omg I saw that today to

heady acorn
#

There's gotta be a shared etymology between them

20231024_162731.jpg
short locust
#

Another view of authenticity is shown by Meadows (2010), who analyzes the discourse in a community of practice of two Japanese language learners and how they sought to establish their legitimate connections to an imagined (Japanese) national community.
Yeowch, didn't expect to be called out

short locust
#

ChatGPT routinely generates garbage. Plausible garbage, but garbage non the less. The bullshit-bot promoters acknowledge this, but try to spin it as 'hallucination': which is also bullshit.
felt the need to post this here lmao

short locust
#

no way geoff lindsey was cited in one book i'm reading

#

this should be normal but for some reason it's funny

kind patio
short locust
#

including the 😡 Vandals 😡, 🍔 Burgundians 🍔 and 💅 Goths 💅

#

including the Vandals 😡, Burgundians 🍔 and Goths 💅

cosmic pewter
glacial matrix
short locust
#

can't believe they made a language just for the goths 🥺

cosmic pewter
short locust
#

i love seeing these, the irony is always so beautiful

image.png
glacial matrix
short locust
#

🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️

short locust
#

i'm talking about the key in german and spanish gender trouble

#

we talked about this a little while ago

#

but yeah tom just did a good 👍

#

his old grammatical gender vid is,,, not the best

#

he actually didn't mention that the original "study" wasn't published but just that there hasn't been any success in replicating it, but ig as long as it gets the point across

amber robin
short locust
#

i think i've taken a too big of a bite

image.png
#

i've accumulated so much i want to read

#

(ignore the 1376 pages in the handbook, only a few are relevant for me, but still lmao)

glacial matrix
glacial matrix
glacial matrix
short locust
#

y'know purism and spelling all that

#

but also other things ofc

jaunty drift
# glacial matrix

What are some languages that have mood baked into their verb conjugation?

short locust
#

re #lounge from the l'epic encyclopedia

The relationship between the Altaic languages is now generally accepted to be the result of a sprachbund rather than common ancestry, with the languages showing influence from prolonged contact.[10][11][12]

The continued use of the term "Altaic" to refer to the various iterations of an Altaic theory, the "Altaic sprachbund" and infrequently as a general term for the region has resulted in confusion around the status of the Altaic hypothesis, with the end result being many Altaicists adopting the name "Transeurasian" for modifications of the family proposal to avoid confusion.[13] This confusion is compounded by literature which refers to Altaic as an accepted hypothesis, which historically was the case.

glacial matrix
amber robin
jaunty drift
glacial matrix
#

mood is usually always taken into account afaik

#

mood in language is about verbs

#

verbs can conjugate depending on mood and structure so you have some verbal conjugations that imply certain moods + other things

#

I don't know any other languages well enough to discern whether they use it like that or not lol

#

ask Bryn or sumn

#

Bryn 🗣️

jaunty drift
#

May I have an example?

short locust
glacial matrix
#

you've failed me

glacial matrix
#

Spanish has conjugations for subject-verb agreement too so that's in there (in this case first person plural)

#

as well as normal Conjugation things like tense and aspect

#

all attached to estud-

#

you can think about mood like an attitude of a sentence.
is it a statement or a question? is it describing a hypothetical situation? is it simply giving an order? These can help tell which mood it might be using. There are different ones and it can vary per language afaik

glacial matrix
#

btw moods don't always refer to verbal conjugations but rather verbal phrases

#

so you have some languages that lean into verb forms and others that lean into syntax to express certain moods

#

syntax, auxiliaries, things like that

glacial matrix
#

@jaunty drift
ohhhhh actually that was your original question wasn't it
Wikipedia probs has some examples that might give you a clue of how each language may work with them

glacial matrix
#

I had something to share here but I've forgotten

#

it was open access too

jaunty drift
#

Ok I thought mood was far more nuanced than it is

#

Ok I understood it completely from the start but I just didn't know it was I was understanding

sharp quest
short locust
sharp quest
#

oh that’s what i thought

#

i would say it’s ironic

#

but it doesn’t have irony

#

yfm

short locust
#

😭

sharp quest
#

tbh idk

#

ik what u mean tho😜

short locust
#

🥴

short locust
#

when handbooks are 1200 pages, is it still a handbook?

cosmic pewter
#

bro that's a whole dictionary

#

like a novel or something

glacial matrix
#

Bjarke Frellesvig <3

glacial matrix
#

this is what I mean when I say I don't peceive you so much as plural 😭😭

Screenshot_20231110-200345_Samsung_Notes.jpg
#

I use y'all for plural

#

like there's a distinction there to me

#

When I think of you as plural I imagine someone talking to an audience tbh

short locust
#

that's pretty fair

amber robin
glacial matrix
#

they were being thorough

Screenshot_20231111-195339_Samsung_Notes.jpg
glacial matrix
glacial matrix
#

I do not like Cyrillic grrrr

amber robin
#

I am very much biased on this but imo it's nice

glacial matrix
#

радио is obvs padno

sharp quest
#

i usually say you guys

amber robin
glacial matrix
#

no just doing script things

#

θiŋz

#

I lost it when и кра́ткое

#

й

amber robin
#

I like й

#

and и they're different you just don't get it

glacial matrix
#

well I know they're different I learned them

#

the name is just long

amber robin
#

true

amber robin
#

yes, ursula?

glacial matrix
#

ur mom

amber robin
#

...

glacial matrix
#

Actually I have a real question

amber robin
#

I figured, what is it

glacial matrix
#

when did you study Russian

#

are you fluent

#

did you even study it

amber robin
#

can i catblush my way out of this

#

actually dms

glacial matrix
#

hmmm alr then I mean you don't have to tell me

#

I haven't checked yet so you can unsend if you want

amber robin
#

literally just dmed you, I'm fine with you knowing

glacial matrix
#

ah okay then

half narwhal
#

glottal trill

glacial matrix
amber robin
#

fr

short locust
#

ok 2 things

#

first, when i opened up youtube it immediately served me a tom scott xnopyt video, DESPITE the fact that this isn't even a youtube link, so that's very scary
and second, check out this cool xnopyt music video 😎😎😎😎
https://youtu.be/2ahM3WdYDBs

YouTube
Hot Garbage
xnopyt

If Tom Scott is watching, I am very sorry

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8niIHChc1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHfXhiUgnQ0

EDIT MARCH 5, 2021: Thank you Mark Brown from Game Maker's Toolkit for boosting this video on Twitter. I don't know you but you seem like a great sport. https://twitter.com/gamemakerstk/status/13671980344766...

▶ Play video
#

scary -> creepy
is probably better

#

this is what it looked like (yes i'm pretty much doxing myself, but it's for the lols ok)

image.png
#

I love the juxtapositioning of the super long videos with the "barely 15 seconds" videos

amber robin
short locust
#

you know what time it is 🤑

#

Geoff da Lindsey just uploaded a new video cash_money

glacial matrix
#

I love how in my little pea sized brain

#

"y'all are all..." is perfectly grammatical

#

it sounds natural to me

#

to me it's like replacing the same thing with "you guys" instead of "y'all"

#

there's also deleting the copula making it seem more redundant but it really isn't

#

so
"y'all all..."
and there's the more natural, imo, "all y'all"

#

which is funny bc I feel like I'd hear "you all all..." in conversation.
and of course "all you all..." just sounds wrong to me

#

I feel like there's a word for what the 'redundant' all is doing but I can't remember what it is.
intensifier? I mean that's what I feel like it's doing. adding emphasis

#

but ig that's a more literal meaning of the word intensifier lol

glacial matrix
#

any conlangers here?

amber robin
daring bolt
#

yoo wsg ppl

#

yall i just wanted to know is N5 or C jat which one is better for studying uni in japan

golden hatch
#

But better than nothing ig

#

C jat idk what unis even take them

#

Fun thing imo about languages, they all are similar because they have Subjects, Verbs, and Objects duckthink

calm nova
#

hellooo

glacial matrix
#

hello

small iron
#

Привет?))0

golden hatch
#

Kak Dela?

#

(Sorry I don't have a russian keyboard)

jaunty drift
#

P

glacial matrix
#

Привет

quiet pier
#

something like that

golden hatch
quiet pier
#

yea that is unfortunate

#

do you know russian though?

glacial matrix
#

Oi

golden hatch
golden hatch
summer cairn
#

hello!