NYU Biology vs Swarthmore Biology. Which school do I ED?

[fluid smelt]

Schools:
New York University (NYU) vs. Swarthmore College

Intended major:
Biology (Pre-Med) with a concentration in healthcare access, public health, and global health policy through my coursework, research, and extracurriculars. In HS, I have done EMT work, running a nonprofit using mobile medical carts for Native American reservations, and wrote a health bill that was proposed in the state legislature.

I am a low-income first gen student.

Similarities

Neither school has a public health major, so both require me to build my policy focus outside the biology major through cross-registration, research centers, and service partnerships.

Both allow commuting from New Jersey without relocating my family, which matters because I have ongoing caregiving responsibilities at home.

Both are relatively prestigious. I love the big atmosphere of New York City, but I also love the beauty and aesthethics of Swarthmore as well...

Swarthmore Pros

Very high medical school acceptance rates, strong committee letter support, and a culture that prioritizes advising over weed-out courses.

Seminar-style classes and close faculty relationships align with how I’ve learned best .

Strong ethical culture with a Quaker reflection, responsibility, and community

Lots of financial accessibility as the cash-free campus is a major advantage for a student like me. (https://www.swarthmore.edu/admissions-aid/supporting-you-campus)

Commute is feasible: approximately 1 hour 30 minutes from my home in New Jersey via NJ Transit + SEPTA, allowing me to stay connected to family responsibilities.

It's also a Little Ivy

Swarthmore Cons

I'm very happy with the smaller classes but it will be a quieter social environment than I’m used to.

Fewer immediate large-scale clinical sites compared to NYC (though strong placements still exist with UPenn).

Commuting 1.5 hours each way would be tiring, especially during exam-heavy weeks.

New York University (NYU) Pros

Unmatched urban public health ecosystem: with direct access to NYC hospitals, health departments, NGOs, and global health organizations.

Shorter commute: about 40 minute train ride from my home in New Jersey, making day-to-day logistics easier.

Stronger Muslim community, as I've been involved with founding the MSA at my HS.

Much more well-known to the average Joe.

NYU Cons:
NYU promise exists (https://www.nyu.edu/admissions/financial-aid-and-scholarships/applying-as-a-prospective-undergraduate-student/first-year-applicants/the-nyu-promise.html), but Admin. is known to be very unpredictable, and I can be locked in with an ED agreement.

Larger and explosive class size makes it difficult for me to build close faculty relationships and learn

Pre med culture can be more competitive and less personalized

**Tiebreaking Considerations
**
Which school’s name, faculty advocacy, and medical school placement record will carry more weight specifically in competitive MD admissions, not just general rankings.

Which institution will consistently cover full demonstrated need over four years

Whether I am more likely to earn a strong committee letter, sustained mentorship, and high-quality clinical opportunities rather than navigating pre-med independently.

My ability to realistically balance commuting, rigorous coursework, ECs, and ongoing family responsibilities without burnout over four years.

[gentle canopy]

Swarthmore is extremely rigorous

[fluid ledge]

Please do not commute that far

An hour doesn’t sound terrible until you’re doing it multiple times a week

Also if you’re low income both schools should offer you enough aid where housing won’t cost you much if anything additional

[fluid smelt]

"First-year students do not receive letter grades on their transcripts for their fall semester courses. Instead, their professors provide them with meaningful feedback on their work, and students receive “credit” or “no credit” marks on their transcript (Swarthmore's version of pass/fail). Class ranks and GPAs are not published. This allows students to take intellectual risks, adjust to college-level coursework, collaborate with peers, and focus on learning for learning’s sake"

I like this a lot.

[gentle canopy]

They only do this because Swarthmore is widely known as a grindfest school unfortunately

It's very demanding

Compared to NYU you will likely have a lot less free time and social opportunities

Especially in premed

[fluid smelt]

I dont know why, but I love both the big city aesthethic of NYU and the vibe of Swarthmore..

[gentle canopy]

Have you thought about Columbia then

Columbia has a much more traditional campus than NYU but it is still in NYC

[fluid smelt]

NYU/Columbia is a 40 minute train ride back and forth, I should add that

[gentle canopy]

Fordham could also be a good safety in that vein

[gentle canopy]

This is more doable but please do not do this daily

Living on campus is much more feasible

[fluid smelt]

I wouldnt do it daily, 3 times a week

[gentle canopy]

That, imo, is still too much

[fluid smelt]

NYU and Swarthmore both offer virtual classes I believe

[gentle canopy]

Anyway I still really think you should consider what type of academic environment you want to have at your college

Is your HS more competitive? It's in North Jersey so I'm guessing it is, but

[fluid smelt]

My HS is not that competitive

[gentle canopy]

I think they are worried about family committments

[fluid smelt]

I'm top 12% of my class... I'm hoping to get to top 10% by the end of this year. NYU and Swarthmore 90% admit those in the top ten percent rank

[fluid smelt]

Ive had to had a part time retail ob to support my family as well.. I hope it doesnt reflect negatively on my college application

[fluid ledge]

Ah I see

[gentle canopy]

Almost every top college only admits top 10%

[gentle canopy]

This reflects positively

I think NYU/Columbia is a much better fit for you

I also think you should really considr Columbia if you want a smaller school, and more traditional college experience

If you like to go out with friends or have a large social life, I'm not sure you can do that very well at Swarthmore

[fluid smelt]

I am considering Columbia as well

40 hour train commute (one station to one station) vs 1 hour 25 minute Swarthmore commute (three stations)

[gentle canopy]

Do you mean you're taking three train lines?

Absolutely not do NOT do this commute

[fluid smelt]

Yup for swarthmore

[fluid ledge]

I just realized this is for ED are you sure you wanna do ED bc then you can’t use other schools’ fin aid offers to negotiate down

[fluid smelt]

NYU commute is atleast reasonable right?

40 minutes one station to one station direct ticket

[fluid smelt]

I mentioned this in my thing

[gentle canopy]

Not really. Recommend you live on campus for at least freshman year

[fluid smelt]

I am wondering if for Swarthmore I can do it through questbridge since thats guaranteed atleast

[gentle canopy]

Yeah personally I did not ED and I really think that was a good choice

[fluid smelt]

ED would lower my chances for both

[fluid ledge]

From what I see you put it as a con for NYU

[fluid smelt]

Swartmore goes out of their way to accomodate low income students

In fact theyre known as a cash free campus

NYU goes out of their way to charge for you things and their admin is notoriously stingy

[gentle canopy]

ED would not actually raise the chances for most top schools like NYU/Swat because the higher acceptance rate comes from people who are legacies/faculty or athletes

[fluid smelt]

https://www.nyu.edu/admissions/financial-aid-and-scholarships/applying-as-a-prospective-undergraduate-student/first-year-applicants/the-nyu-promise.html

[gentle canopy]

This is why I'm not sure ED is a good choice for you

You could apply EA to a TON of schools

[fluid smelt]

"Beginning in the 2024-25 academic year, President Linda G. Mills expanded NYU's commitment to affordability through The NYU Promise, guaranteeing that every **undergraduate–domestic and international–who start as a first-year student admitted to our New York campus **will have 100% of their demonstrated need met through a combination of scholarships and grants."

This is why I am worried

It says first year student admitted

[gentle canopy]

This just means not transfer

It's fine

[fluid smelt]

Got it

[fluid ledge]

Some of the qb schools are misleading and Swarthmore is one of them

For example image 1 is how rice would ask you to cover fees if you got in while image 2 is Swarthmore

Technically both are full rides but you’d owe jackshit to rice while Swarthmore wants a percentage of your savings in addition to an on campus job

[gentle canopy]

I think you should consider applying RD to both schools so that you can compare their aid packages and campus culture if you are admitted. Have you toured either school?

Touring the schools could be a weekend trip for you. You could also check out the commute

[fluid smelt]

Swarthmore would want a percentage of my income from the job that I had in HS?

[gentle canopy]

Note that the estimates for your commute are heavily based on peak travel times, and if everything works out. Trains are late all the time

[gentle canopy]

No they want you to work while on campus

[gentle canopy]

If you miss a transfer for instance, you could be late to class at Swarthmore and this can happen for so many reasons

[fluid smelt]

Good thing is that with the train to NYU is that its there every 30 minutes departing and coming in.. Swarthmore with the 3 lines would be insane

[gentle canopy]

I'm someone who has commuted both to and from school on public transit and I would not recommend choosing it if possible

[gentle canopy]

The thing is that this would likely run slower on weekends and in the midday

[fluid smelt]

For the NYU/Columbia commute at least a train would be guaranteed within 30 minutes

[gentle canopy]

It would be VERY hard for you to attend social events when you want to. I live far away from my school and it is miserable

Please please please do not commute as a freshman

School aid covers housing

[fluid ledge]

This is how it’s officially defined per qb

[fluid smelt]

Wow

For how much they pride themselves on being a "cash free campius"

Them requiring you to work and then give you 25% of your salary is super odd

[gentle canopy]

They also want you to make $2500 a year from a campus job opportunity, which means a work study

working for you on campus

[gentle canopy]

it's your savings

not your salary

your whole salary goes to them

[fluid smelt]

Ahh

So this is like cash crop system?

😂

What the hell

[gentle canopy]

Yeah it's not great

Columbia would give much better aid

[fluid smelt]

Sharecropping system*

[gentle canopy]

Under $150 it is completely free I believe

[fluid smelt]

My bad

Bro this shit should be illegal, woww

Its weird to justify doing that

They want you to work for nothing and then give 25% of the savings you have..

[gentle canopy]

NYU is known for having some rich kids but if you qualify for the promise then it could be a good choice for you

[gentle canopy]

Technically it's working for $2500 and you might get to keep the rest, but you know how hard it is to make 2500 on minimum wage lol

That's like a full summer 9-5

[fluid smelt]

Can NYU just not give me the promise if I get in early decision?

[gentle canopy]

No

[fluid smelt]

But if they refuse to do that, I can just get out of the ED agreement then, correct?

Since its not a legal contract

Its a social binding

[gentle canopy]

Yes but they wouldn't refuse

Yeah you can technically withdraw from ED for financial reasons

NYU premed opportunities are also much more

Consider that

[fluid smelt]

Oh yeah 100%

This campus job opportunity is yearly?

[gentle canopy]

Being in NYC means that there are doctor's offices for all 6 million people there

[gentle canopy]

every year, indeed

[fossil swift]

as someone going to university in middle of bumfrick nowhere

i just do my clinicals at home, which seems like OP has access to

[fluid smelt]

The thing I like about Swat is that you can take classes at Upenn and we all know how good UPenns medical school is

[fossil swift]

but i agree it grants more flexibility

[gentle canopy]

Undergrad and grad schools are totally separate

So you couldn't take any upenn medical school classes

[fluid ledge]

Federal work study (FWS) is weird. Basically the federal gov gives schools money to pay students eligible for that method of fin aid to do on campus work. So when you’re browsing for on campus jobs regardless of if you’re FWS eligible or not you’ll notice some jobs are exclusive to FWS students with many at least prioritizing them which they do bc the school isn’t the one paying them to work. Usually what happens to FWS kids is while they could possibly work more hours than their aid gives schools are allowed to cut them off

Like if I’m an FWS kid with $1,500 in FWS aid and I get an on campus job paying $15/hr then once I hit 100 hours (aka $1,500) for the year the school can continue to employ me but it’d be out of their pocket so some choose not to

[gentle canopy]

So yeah it's literally indentured servitude

[fossil swift]

Which school’s name, faculty advocacy, and medical school placement record will carry more weight specifically in competitive MD admissions, not just general rankings.

• they dont "carry weight" in MD admissions. they simply correlate with them. many people go to "lesser than" universities and get into medical schools, sometimes great ones. it is common to have correlation with top tier schools and their top tier grad school counterparts. school's name does not mean much, compared to your individual experiences and stats.

Which institution will consistently cover full demonstrated need over four years

• i agree this is utmost importance considering u gotta pay for med school too; which does give better aid? according to NPC?

[gentle canopy]

My dad went to University of Arkansas, did their honors college and got into WashU med

[fossil swift]

my dad applied to med school 10 years late and is doing fine

Whether I am more likely to earn a strong committee letter, sustained mentorship, and high-quality clinical opportunities rather than navigating pre-med independently.

• committee letter is less correlated with the school, but id argue swarthmore since it is smaller. it is SO MUCH easier to get to know your profs on a personal level at LAC type schools. sustained mentorship probably could come out to equal for both. clinical opportunities (if you mean EC wise) can happen at home as well. as someone in a lowk rural area for uni, i do my clinicals and underserved volunteering at home in Westchester and i save my cornell months for club work and leadership and research and doing well in my classes rather than having 24 hr shifts

i'd agree nyu likely grants u more variety with the clinical options if theres none near your home though.

but honestly all u need is one

My ability to realistically balance commuting, rigorous coursework, ECs, and ongoing family responsibilities without burnout over four years.

• i can see it being rough at swarthmore as a commuter, especially with the tightknit on campus community. i'd hope aid would cover enough of your tuition that you can fund dorming comparatively with nyu cost. the rest is dependent on you more than the university id say

also just a very very personal to me note on nyu 😭

i hate the format of its campus; i love the diversity and options that the city has and how free it feels, but for me as a person, i much prefer a collegetown. it's so nice to walk around and just know everyone around or near me is from my uni; it makes it easier for me to grow connections and see people in passing. it's like, i love college in a collegetown maybe id like living in a more urban area but probably not for uni

u have so much more life to live; u can experience both (the big atmosphere and the beautiful campus)

[fluid smelt]

"Students choose from more than 600 different courses with over 50 programs of study, ranging from economics and computer science to philosophy and an ABET-accredited engineering program. In addition, students may cross-register for classes at Bryn Mawr College, Haverford College, and the University of Pennsylvania as they apart of the Quaker Group"

[fluid smelt]

How is this the case?

[fluid smelt]

Wow... Do they just have you do office work?

And can I. just pay them the 2.5k?

[fossil swift]

there are so many more students at nyu

LACs historically have "high med school acceptance rates"

it doesnt mean if u go here and are premed u will succeed

it just means the premeds that go there decide to stick it out and do well for themselves

just going to a uni doesnt determine ur med school acceptance

is that chatgpt bruh

[fossil swift]

the way FWS works at my university, its ur spending money portion of your aid. it can help you land a job bc it means ur money comes from the government, not ur employer/boss necessarily.

if u dont choose to do it u dont have to spend more

it just can help u get oncampus employment

in the position u want. its not predecided either

also the resource it used to determine 30-32% for nyu is just wrong.

so.

[fossil swift]

like i also have a 40 min commute by train into nyc, and i go there to do clinicals over the summer or winter

its not that deep to NEED to go to uni there

[gentle canopy]

Taking classes at UPenn will not help you get into their medical school more than taking classes at Swarthmore will

[fossil swift]

people get in taking cc coursework

its just all part of your individual journey 😌

oh im premed in junior year at cornell if u had any questions.

not a bio major

interesting that ur EDing somewhere that doesnt have the major you want 😭

[gentle canopy]

you could also look at JHU

[gentle canopy]

they want to do public health though

[fossil swift]

Come cornell

Health policy major

[fluid smelt]

Someone in #🚀-general-chat posted it

[fluid smelt]

Yes, but it is definitely a perk

[fluid smelt]

How competitive fora dmissions would you say it is compared to Swat and NYU?

[fossil swift]

Cornell?

Easier than nyu

Unless ur profile has stellar stats or some weird social media hook

But brooks itself can be very competitive to get into

Brooks is a very small school within cornell

So youll experience ur tiny classes thing

[fluid smelt]

Are you serious?

[fossil swift]

I didnt get into nyu

So yes

Im serious

[fluid smelt]

Idk if youd be willing to take a look orrrrrrrrrr but

My ecs are pretty spiky and good?

[fossil swift]

Id rather not look bc im not an expert, EC channrl might be better

[fluid smelt]

Id say I have a very good shot for NYU since Im not going for the thetere/arts/business

[fossil swift]

I deadass meant social media

Cuz ik a lot of the famous influencers go to nyu

or some shi

Maybe its causation the other way 😭 go to nyu become influencer

[fossil swift]

good luck

[fluid smelt]

😭

What do u know about cornell admissions, does ed have any impact?

[fossil swift]

It can

All ED has some impact

Cuz they take a good amount from a smaller pool

Prob not as dramatic as uchicago

Ik cornell loves fit

It may pick ppl with not the best grades but amazing fit

[fluid smelt]

Interesting so the athlete legacy argument isnt applicable to cornell ed

[fossil swift]

What

That applies to almost every school id say

[fluid smelt]

Someone in here told em i wouldnt get an ED benefit from applying to Swat or NYU because of this reason

[fossil swift]

Aldc boost exists

But it doesnt mean non aldc dont help

Theyre just saying the massive percentage increase in ED acceptance rate can be accounted for by many ALDC applicants

But by EDing youre saying im definitely coming if i get in which massively helps a schools yield % which they like keeping high

So all ED helps a little

Just not as massively as the % makes it look

[gentle canopy]

Yeah I'm saying if you are needing aid, ED is not a good choice because it won't actually boost your chances by that much

You seemed very set on the ED

[fluid smelt]

You can get out of the ed agreement tho

[fossil swift]

Why would u ED with that as ur plan

[gentle canopy]

Some schools will SLIME you for that

[fossil swift]

Some highschools threaten to suspend u for pulling out ED

[gentle canopy]

Tulane blacklists entire high schools when kids do that

[fossil swift]

Yeah for that reason ^

[fossil swift]

If u do the NPC and its not enough for u, why would u apply binding

[gentle canopy]

Stanford did that to my school just for REA 😭

It's been 6 years...

[fossil swift]

If your reasoning is youd pay the difference anyway, thats the only reason u should

“I just wanna see then turn them down bc its expensive” is ridiculous

They probably wont increase ur aid offer just cuz u were good enough to get in

Some even say aid is worse for ED cuz they feel they can skimp u since ur forced to go

idk how true that is

[fluid smelt]

Well lots of these schools are promising these aid so if they dont do it,t heyre lying to me

For example the NYU Promise

[fossil swift]

Yeah thats npc stuff

Did u do their npc

[fluid smelt]

Yes

[fluid smelt]

Outside scholarships will first replace your work aid expectation, followed by your student asset contribution. If your outside scholarship funds exceed the combined total of these two items, then the remaining outside scholarship funds will replace Swarthmore Scholarship dollar for dollar. This practice is done per federal rules.

So total tuition is $93,172

Full pay

Scholarship covers $90,672

So if I have multiple outside scholarshisp totaling $2500 im good

[raw ember]

ChatGPT doesn’t know what it’s talking about in such specialized and niche topics unfortunately

Undergrad prestige only matter for a select few medical schools

[fossil swift]

lmao i googled the source it used and it pulled from like CC or sdn or some forum like that 😭 and it pulled the info off someone's comment, that someone replied to and said "this math doesnt even make sense because it is more than the actual graduating class of nyu"

[fluid smelt]

Again I didnt generate it someone here did

[fossil swift]

ik my bad didnt mean to make it seem like u did

[fluid smelt]

yg dw

[dense pilot]

not as relevant but two of the reasons i turned down swarthmore were that i was a) allergic to pollen, and b) cant swim for the life of me

but more generally consider the quality of life you'll live at either campus and how you'll spend your four years, for instance swarthmore is very tight knit and has less students than many high schools, nyu is quite massive in comparison

also the whole cash free campus at swarthmore i realized was just billed to you in your tuition anyways as an "annual activity fee"

btw you got a killer commute, gl

[brazen yoke]

Swarthmore is a great school but a 90 minute commute is monstrous. NYU all the way.

[brazen yoke]

The medical school is totally separate, but one could take graduate biology/chem etc courses (though I wouldn't recommend it unless you're going the much harder MD/PhD route)

[fluid smelt]

Which school is better NYU or swat in terms of prestige

[fossil swift]

debatably nyu imo

[fluid smelt]

I feel as if with NYU the average person knows it's top 30 and it has global prestige

Average person doesn't know swat

[fossil swift]

yeah thats why i agree on that

[formal lake]

For academia I think Swarthmore is more prestigious

[brazen yoke]

NYU

[dense pilot]

swat, nyu isnt even t30

bio program doesnt seem like anything to write home about either