Need to finally make a college list

[sweet steppe]

• Location/Region: US, rn I'm not too sure where exactly

• Major: CS (or violin performance if I can survive and audition..?)

• GPA/Test Scores: I'll take the SAT soon and will most likely get more than 1500. I also got a 5 in calc bc

• Costs: will definitely need aid. 13k max a year? smth like that

• Schools You're Currently Looking At: honestly I haven't looked at enough I need help 💀 I wrote like the UChicago supplemental essays (I definitely should've picked colleges beforehand) but that's it

[elfin marsh]

is ap calc the only ap course you've taken?

[elfin marsh]

Here are opportunities that combine both of your interests you described: https://engineering.tufts.edu/me/current-students/undergraduate-program/minor-music-engineering, https://musicengineering.frost.miami.edu/, https://music.gatech.edu/bachelor-science-music-technology

[sweet steppe]

nmmmmm yeah it is

[sweet steppe]

I was wondering, do conservatories (except maybe curtis 😭) offer financial aid?

I was never terribly interested in combining music and CS, just one or the other

[elfin marsh]

That's a great question, I'm not sure the answer to. Sorry I didn't see the aid part

Generally your best-bet is going to be a scholarship or in-state school

[sweet steppe]

aw 🙁

[elfin marsh]

obviously, one second.

[elfin marsh]

this doesn't mean no! you just have to do your research

[sweet steppe]

oh I'm international

The location thing is for where you'd prefer to go to college right

or no

idk

[elfin marsh]

ohhh

it's both

[sweet steppe]

OH

[elfin marsh]

international... is something else

[sweet steppe]

rip

[sweet steppe]

..yeah

[elfin marsh]

international where?

[sweet steppe]

that makes a difference?

[elfin marsh]

All context makes differences. In terms of me helping you, not necessarily, so that was more for my curiosity. Some schools have region-based scholarships for international students.

But

ok, the good news is that you can afford to pay 10-13k, the not-so-great news is that's still a significant amount of aid you'd need which for schools that are not need-blind (all but like 10 in the U.S.) is a factor considered for admission. I.e., the more you need, the lower your chances of acceptance are for U.S. universities

[sweet steppe]

which is why I was wondering how well shotgunning works

[elfin marsh]

So you'll have to do a lot of research also on the financial aid policies of schools in terms of whether they'll offer financial aid to international students and how much if at all. Ideally you'll want one that says they meet "full need". The other thing to consider is that there are school's that have merit scholarships "open to" international students, but just know that you would be competing against domestic U.S. students for those so your application would really need to hold up against those.
But also it would need to hold up against other international students applying for aid because at a lot of schools those options are few and far between.

[elfin marsh]

What is your definition of shotgunning in this case

[sweet steppe]

hmmm.. when it comes to college apps i thought it kinda always means applying to as many schools as possible and hoping to get into some

is that not what it always means

[elfin marsh]

Ok, then yes. Usually people neeed to shotgun when they want to apply to a lot of selective schools (ivy leagues, t10's, etc.). In your case as an int'l student with financial need, a lot of schools are going to be that selective so then you should shotgun. But I would recommend shotgunning at lesser-known and/or "lower ranked" schools overall like Illinois Wesleyan or Eastern Michigan if your primary goal is to study/live in the U.S. at an affordable price. If you'd rather study for free in Europe or other countries over going to a really random school in the U.S. then that's also something that'll affect your list.

[sweet steppe]

what schools would you suggest?

[sweet steppe]

but what I'm getting from this is shotgunning top schools might not cut it

[elfin marsh]

correct

it'll also depend on your story and how well you write. For example, I do know someone who went to Duke as an int'l student on full scholarship and I think their main activity was playing violin for members of their community. I'm guessing she was really able to convey the value of that to her and to her community and that resonated with admissions. She also might have reflected on other key life experiences for her. So, it's definitely plausible to get admitted to a top school without having international awards and the like.

You could look at this list - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18eP3jlf1ktnv6vjfWT6-8UXR8hxgNV3TIcrkpJ5vH80/edit?usp=sharing
And this list - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1otwtaKUYreI1MZsWzmKW5eu-mHVJLnZik8HP2HrTtZs/edit?usp=drive_link
as starting points at least in terms of funding.
Music is a pretty selective degree so that could make admissions more challenging potentially. CS is technically fine because a lot of universities in the U.S. don't admit by major, which means they're not specifically enrolling for any given degree program when they admit students, they just ask you what your academic interests are to gauge what kind of student you'll be on campus.

I'd definitely recommend Oberlin College: https://www.oberlin.edu/admissions-and-aid/financial-aid/applying-aid-international-students the school is a liberal arts college so they don't usually have computer science, but they' just created one a few years ago https://www.bates.edu/digital-computational-studies/major/

They are super transparent about their need-aware policies though,

As a need-aware institution, Oberlin considers a student’s financial circumstances when making admissions decisions. Applying for need-based financial aid places you in Oberlin’s most competitive applicant pool. For students enrolling in the fall of 2024, the admit rate for all international students was approximately 8%. Applicants who can contribute at least $35,000 USD per year towards their educational expenses are the most competitive for admission.

[sweet steppe]

I certainly hope r/chanceme isn't actually full of cancer-curing demigods

[sweet steppe]

music.. I'm not 100% sure about passing auditions, I mean I can try (can definitely play the repertoire) but then there's funding

when I say I love music I always mean violin playing

which is why I wasn't too keen on the degrees that combine

[sweet steppe]

oh wow

well I can try!

[elfin marsh]

regardless if a school has an optional music portfolio you can submit your violin without having to apply for the music program

https://www.iefa.org/scholarships

https://www.edupass.org/paying-for-college/scholarships/

https://financialaid.rice.edu/apply-aid/international-students

https://www.curtis.edu/apply/financial-aid/

[sweet steppe]

ah, curtis 🙂

free tuition for everyone but no one gets in!

thank you for everything here btw I'll look through all of it

[sweet steppe]

I did wanna ask, does ED help if you need aid?

[elfin marsh]

extremely rarely, I can think there's only one school where it's beneficial but that's only if you do their summer program. other schools might have scholarship deadlines that are the same date as the ED deadline but that's different than finaid.

more often than not it allows them to be less generous with aid because you already signed a contract to go anyways.

[sweet steppe]

okay wow 😭

[elfin marsh]

yeah so the recommendation is never ED if you need aid unfortunately. that will also allow you to compare aid offers across schools

[sweet steppe]

i see

there's also really no safeties if you're in this situation, right?

[elfin marsh]

if you're an international student, no safeties. if you're domestic, yes there are tons. just to clarify

[sweet steppe]

roughhh

[sweet steppe]

i guess the only real option is applying to as many schools that meet full need as possible?

[elfin marsh]

and/or schools in other countries. you also have to keep in mind that there's application fees at a lot of places except for liberal arts colleges but most of those don't offer computer science, they usually are strong in music and other stuff though.

You could also apply to schools that offer scholarships if your profile/essays are competitive enough ex: https://www.iwu.edu/international/scholarships.html

[sweet steppe]

ah, right. you mentioned music scholarships for non-music majors before, can you tell me about that?

[elfin marsh]

yep i'd say there's even more scholarships for music people who want major in music too, one sec

https://college.emory.edu/scholars/scholarships/other-woodruff-scholarship-information.html

https://www.skidmore.edu/music/scholarships/filene.php -this one is only 20k per year so you'll also have to check if the school gives finaid to int'l students

[sweet steppe]

ooooh i see

[elfin marsh]

https://case.edu/artsci/music/academics/undergraduate-studies/scholarships-undergraduate-study - full tuition if you major in it, 10k if you don't but that would only be like 10k off of 90k.

[sweet steppe]

hm.. not exactly a conservatory though, is it?

[elfin marsh]

but the spreadsheets i linked earlier include scholarships in addition to info on whether a school meets full need or not. you might want to create a balanced list where you apply only to a few with full scholarships but no fin aid. a lot of fin aid and scholarships. and a good amount with fin aid only.

[sweet steppe]

and pray to get in somewhere!!

[elfin marsh]

does that matter? it would be a different experience where you could major in music but also take classes in other fields like cs, data science, or economics or even double major while still being able to be fully funded.

Cleveland Institute of Music is also an option but it's unclear how much aid they give to int'l students but you could reach out and ask https://www.cim.edu/admissions/apply/international

[sweet steppe]

if i were to study music it's what i'd want

[elfin marsh]

why?

[sweet steppe]

ngl you have me stumped here

[elfin marsh]

There's pros and cons to both I'd say so I would try to make an informed decision because also in the U.S. your major isn't equal to your career. If you go to a conservatory then you are locking yourself to only the resources available there which would only be music career prep which tbf would lead you to lots of high-end music opportunities likely. But if you go to another university or college you'd have access to everything including the music school or conservatory if that uni has one.

[sweet steppe]

If I do somehow prove myself worthy to get into a conservatory I would love that

[elfin marsh]

why

[sweet steppe]

I can't really explain why I love music sm I just do

high-end opportunities in violin playing are definitely the most attractive to me

[wheat compass]

hmm

UF

tuit is very low oos

$28k/year

ik you said need aid so i will say oos gets some scholarships

plus if you have a grandparent in state you get it for like 6k/year

plus if your parents move to florida you

[sweet steppe]

ah i should've mentioned international, forgot people don't always check roles

[wheat compass]

Oh sorry

[sweet steppe]

Actually how much of a difference does the SAT make?

[elfin marsh]

once you have a minimum competitive score it won't mean much but i'd describe a minimum competitive score as like whatever's at the 50th %ile for some of the most competitive schools

But 1500+ should be good

[sweet steppe]

which is how much?

ah

yeah i can do that

[elfin marsh]

it's usually 1550 ngl

for like stanford and a lot of t20s

[sweet steppe]

i always get more than 700 on both sections

doesn't really go below 1500

(practice tests)

[elfin marsh]

nice

[sweet steppe]

Do most schools offer fee waivers? app fees can.. stack up quite a bit

I know UChicago doesn't do an app fee if you're applying w aid

[elfin marsh]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aEfuF0nKudmdXNekx6fLLgW2kHmvSEmu22Z_cHXxgaY/edit?usp=drivesdk

[sweet steppe]

woahhhh you have a spreadsheet for everything :0

[sweet steppe]

okay I did not end up getting that which is very weird considering practice tests. I took it twice and superscored 1490, which I'm sure isn't terrible but how far off is it from ideal