Loyola University Maryland vs Towson University

[hushed path]

Schools: Loyola University Maryland Vs Towson
Intended major: Biohealth at Loyola, Biology at Towson. I want to pursue graduate school in the Medical Entomology/Vector Biology/ fields.
Similarities: Both schools are local, would make me be a commuter, both regional level universities. Location means I can still do undergraduate research at my community college. Both accept my dual enrollment credits though to different scales. Both have pretty solid study abroad’s

NOTE I still have to submit my application for Towson, but I have been direct admitted. I will assume I get into the honors college.

Loyola University Maryland
Loyola Pros:

• I adore the campus- it’s one of the most beautiful in the country
• I know the head of the biology department personally
• One Years worth of my Credits will transfer.
• I vastly prefer the Biohealth major. It suits my needs really exceptionally well.
• it’s a Private university- smaller student faculty ratio, preferred social environment as a home schooler.
• I know they have a very strong first year acclimation program that I was excited to see.
• I think I will have more success starting an iGEM team here, as the biology department head runs a high school team already (that’s how we know eachother).
  -My uncle went here and I think he’s a Teacher here sometimes.

Loyola Cons:

• They are a Jesuit institution. I am Agnostic, but I know my parents will be iffy about it especially my dad, and they do make me take Theology coursework.
  They are more expensive- $20,000 a year.

Towson University
School 2 Pros:

• Better for Entomology stuff, they have a huge insect collection
• Two years of Credits will transfer
• As a result of being a prominent competitor in their model United Nations program, I am well acquainted with some faculty, alumni, and admitted students.
• I have some distant friends who go here already
• My parents and family want me to go here
• Less expensive- around $14,000 a year I believe.
• I’ve visited campus many times as a result of MUN. I also know that if I am interested, I can easily get into their MUN staff.

Towson Cons:

• I don’t like the campus very much
• A lot more students, not excited about the social environment
• Building off the last thing, I am worried about getting less personalized attention from faculty

I’m in class rn but I’ll write the addendum/tiebreakers afterwards

I’ll try and type Tiebreakers during class:

tiebreakers;

1. which school has better access to undergraduate research?
2. Which school has a superior study/internship/immersion abroad program?
3. Which school has superior access for leadership positions
   3a. That would be existing programs and things that I can get into
   3b. That could also mean which school has an easier process for starting clubs and securing funds? I want to start an iGEM team, for example.
4. Grad school results are paramount in my decision- all of the coolest things in my field are in grad school. What school is going to get me to the most exceptional grad schools where my work will become famous?
5. My parents will pressure me quite a bit to go to the cheaper option… cost is their limiting factor- I’ve been made to give up all of my most exciting choices because they’re too expensive.

Addendum: Loosely, My Preferred school is a small liberal arts college or university highly focused on undergraduates, with undergraduate access to either entomology, Disease Ecology, global health, Immunology, Epidemiology, etc. Also I want to have the opportunity to do a lot of exploration in undergrad- I’m very tightly set into my intended career path but it requires a lot of expertise in different fields. Some additional fields I’m interested in include anthropology and archaeology, especially biological anthropology, Global Studies and International Relations, History or Classics, Foreign language interests including Arabic, Italian, and loooosely French.

I want my campus to look awesome- gothic or neoclassical architecture is my absolute favorite. I hate modern architecture and brutalist architecture.

I’ll go into more depth after class

[silent willow]

@hushed path hmm this is interesting

i think i’m very slightly leaning loyola here

when it comes to graduate admissions i think having an extra year of undergrad to conduct research, do clubs and coursework, etc will be useful

you also prefer the major and know the dept chair for your igem stuff

what should be mentioned is the cost, 3 years at 20k is a total of 60k while towsons 2 years at 14k is a total of 28k

but if that’s doable/worth it, i would do it

i wouldn’t worry too much about the theology requirements by the way, plenty of students aren’t devout catholics and you should have a fairly broad course offering for those theology classes

my brother went to loyola university new orleans (also jesuit) as an openly gay guy and had no issues, jesuit schools do tend to be more accepting compared to other denominations

[hushed path]

It depends what my parents say to this to be honest. I think what it comes down to is if I can convince them that Loyola is worth it.

For the extra year

I personally prefer Loyola

I’m also kinda making this post to look into like overall feasibility

Cause really the way I’m framing my undergrad is the trampoline to grad school

[iron wyvern]

yeahI. think lean loyola, but both sounds like they have perks for you. If you already have Towson ocnnections, you could potentially leverage those while attending elsewhere?

Yeah, agreed, about the theology thing. Assuming the school isn't insanely catholic, it's more or less just another gened

[hushed path]

Thats a good point too, I don’t need to go to the same school in order to stay connected

Even then the theology thing could still be interesting, just so long as it doesn’t make me write something that I don’t believe in

Thank you Dr. Biggreen for your input

[iron wyvern]

I can't imagine it would make you write things you don't believe

can you copy the exact wording of the theology reqs here?

[silent willow]

As part of Loyola's core curriculum, all students must take two theology courses, beginning with an introduction to theology course aimed at learning how to interpret the Bible, understanding the history of Christianity, and becoming people who can respond intelligently, in thought and in life, to the way these texts and traditions challenge (and are challenged by) our contemporary cultures.

The second theology course focuses these aims on one of four general areas: Jewish and Christian scriptures, the history of Christianity, Christian theology, and theology and culture—including world religions. Core ethics courses are either case-oriented or theme-oriented explorations of theological ethics.

[iron wyvern]

Oooh that is a less appealing requirement...

I sat Towson then

[hushed path]

sooo you think they’re gonna make me write something I don’t believe in type thing

[hushed path]

Lowk a lil sus

I just emailed my AO about it to see if she can connect me with non Christian students who have taken the theology courses. We’ll see what she says

[sullen sapphire]

Im feeling more Towson if I was you because 1: More credits would transfer (less money spent on degree) 2: Its already cheaper (less debt for later on) and 3: It will help you build more relationships and help you get out of your comfort zone (this is good for the future since connections made especially in college are valuable)

also, it aligns more with your beliefs so you won't have to be uncomfortable with your classes. I cant back this info up but I feel that the more you like your classes, the less likely you'll skip them, meaning you'll improve more in your studies

[hushed path]

Tbf, I’m never going to skip school. I don’t do it now and I don’t plan to

But thank you for your perspective

[sullen sapphire]

I appreciate you looking out for my perspective

[silent willow]

the beginning course will be bible focused, but for the second one you could take stuff like world religions or history of x religion

i guess the only thing to be concerned about is that first one on bible interpretation, but i also dont know if one course should make or break your decision

[hushed path]

The main concern I had with taking Theology is that in order to get a good grade, I would have to write work that I consider contradictory or incorrect in my opinion. You’ll have to do that every now and again in college, but if the whole course isn’t aligned well, that could lead to a bad grade. And I’ve heard any number of bad grades blows you up for grad school

Idk if that’s true or not

[calm brook]

Even though it's just one course, it seems like a strange requirement that could communicate more about the campus culture outside the classroom

The mandatory "theology" class is wild because it's just a bible study. Georgetown also has mandatory religion classes but it's super broad and lets you take any religion class you want. So I also find the narrowed theology focus strange for the first course.

[hushed path]

I will be able to learn more about on campus vibes and culture once I get my visits done and stuff too

So that cab be another way of scoping if it’s a big deal or not

[calm brook]

Depends on the graduate program, but they're super understanding if you have lower grades freshman year or do poorly in a completely unrelated course outside your major.

[sullen sapphire]

there is one benefit I see for you taking the theology class

You'll get used to having to give your opinion on things you aren't comfortable or agreeing with

I've heard that's common in college writings for most things

It just depends on which is better for your future honestly, since either way you are commuting, so party life, food, etc. doesn't matter much

[silent willow]

yeah id def do this

[hushed path]

I have like 3 visits planned to Loyola haha

[hushed path]

Yeah, it’s a good point. I mean like I do already have an interest in philosophy even if it’s surface level. I’m a big fan of the YouTube channel Cosmic Skeptic/Alex O’Connor

[sullen sapphire]

And you'll learn things you wouldn't had before (or atleast you'll try to)

It could be a good opportunity or it could just be an uncomftorable class

either way you'll come out better

I'd still pick Towson since it's cheaper and you can connect more there

either way you're going to be in a new, uncomfortable situation

so its really which situation do you prefer

people or beliefs

[calm brook]

But yeah I would scope out the campus vibes in general because I'm not a big proponent of paying extra money for a school that may or may not make you uncomfortable.

Having extra years to build research connections and projects is generally pretty helpful for grad school. But if you're able to maintain/elevate research projects you're currently working on and can even perhaps get a few poster presentations/conferences or even 1 paper then you'd be more than fine for grad school apps.

If not, you can always do a masters before PhD and those credits would transfer but it can be a more expensive route depending on the cost of the MS program.

freedom of religion versus like meeting new people are two different levels of uncomfortableness lol

[hushed path]

I’m not 100% sure I would connect more per se, I think I’m at a pretty equal opportunity for social activities stuff. Most of my Friends would almost certainly be from clubs

[sullen sapphire]

to be fair you'd atleast be able to choose who's your friend compared to which class you take

[hushed path]

Yeah honestly like I think I would mentally prefer the idea of having an extra year, because it also means more time for fun electives in random stuff. It’s just the cost that would make me (my parents) hesitant for that, so I’d need a strong argument for why that’s worth it

[sullen sapphire]

well it would be more time for you to explore your identity and who you are, either way you are your own person and it is your life

[calm brook]

just tell them it's cheaper than having to pay for a masters program

[hushed path]

That too aswell. I think like personally would prefer Loyola as an overall school/vibe. My needs from there really come from how do I pitch it to my parents that it’s worth

[hushed path]

Smart smart

I’ve already been telling my dad about that (how it’s way smarter to do PhD right away in most cases)

Bc you can still get a masters if you drop out

[calm brook]

because you need research for grad school and that takes time so you either put the time in in undergrad or have to pay for more time elsewhere

[hushed path]

Ima be churning out research like nobody’s business. Another point to that though is I’m not familiar with what the research opportunities are like at either school. I know a little more about Towson, I mentioned this in DMs with you Talya. I need to learn more about that

[calm brook]

definitely ask when you visit in terms of how early you can get started. you could also even email professors now or this summer to start asap

because I know freshmen in college that do that

[hushed path]

Yeah definitely

Yooo getting that head start on research would be hype

[mighty prairie]

I read all of this thread and I think it depends on where you stand. If you are uncomfortable with the Loyola requirement, I would go with Towson. I will say, I went to a Christian school as a child (my family is Hindu) and I did learn from the Bible and I personally viewed it as me learning about another culture and that what I was learning was not real. Granted, my parents had a bit of a shock when I started singing about how Jesus loved me a child and stuck me in public school instead 😅 but I think it just depends on your perspective

[mighty prairie]

Yeah I’d rec emailing close to when school ends bc they’ll be losing undergrads and will appreciate your initiative

[calm brook]

yup

[hushed path]

I know my grandparents would be happy that I’m going to a Christian school. They paid big money to send my sister and dad to Catholic school lol

[sullen sapphire]

I'm Christian so I can't really put my point in this since I went to a Christian school my whole life, but even if do what you think will benefit you the most in the future, life's progress isn't linear, yet you want your ending to be good, so do what will benefit you later on

[hushed path]

I’m gonna do some high tech cost analysis for getting a masters vs an extra year at Loyola watch this

[calm brook]

just google the cost of the average MS program

[hushed path]

Yeah

Well AI says 30k to 120k

vs 20k at Loyola

Sooo

Economically speaking

The extra year is actually goated with the sauce

[calm brook]

yep

[hushed path]

Alright team we have a new complication. My dad is arguing that because he wouldn’t be paying for a masters in the first place, it’s not really a benefit for him

[sullen sapphire]

if he's not paying why should he care where you're going

[hushed path]

He is paying for lowest cost undergrad

[sullen sapphire]

ok but thats not your masters, if he's not paying why should he care

why is he thinking a benefit for HIM

Its YOUR life

not his

[hushed path]

He’s saying that he wouldn’t be willing to pay for my masters

[sullen sapphire]

I mean it is your decision

just go in a bit of student debt

you'll eventually pay it off when you make MONEYYY

[hushed path]

So by spending the extra year at Loyola, he not getting the overall less money benefit

[sullen sapphire]

so you locked in for Loyola

[iron wyvern]

No, it just sounds like if you aren't catholic you're not so likely to fit in

[hushed path]

Like you mean bc of the administration or like you think all the students are Catholic or

[iron wyvern]

mor than the default is to be catholic

[hushed path]

Hmm

I’ll scope things out during admitted student events

[hushed path]

Alright thread

My observations from my first Loyola Visit: Jenkins hall has a study program with a time management workshop and stuff like that. Peer tutoring is a thing too.

Lifetime free access to the Rizzo center career advising

Fun little idea space where every is a whiteboard and all of the chairs roll around

CCSJ is cool (it basically means you can get internships and field experience and that kind of thing very easily)

Around 40% of students aren’t Christian, they have an interfaith office, and they’ve given a strong impression you don’t need to be Christian. During the tour I noticed a
TV with resources for Muslim students

You can get prescription medication sent to the health office on campus

They have an entire commuter student center. They have an entire commuter student organizations and building.

Discussion based classes and low student faculty ratio

Writing center has paid positions and you can go there and get extra credit

Dorms are exceptional even if I’m not using them

They share a library with Notre Dame

The campus smells like Indian food

[hushed path]

Look at what I just sent, but I’m getting the vibe that it doesn’t seem to be that big of a deal to them

Maybe that’s just cause it’s a campus tour and stuff but I’m getting the vibe it’s less super focused on that

[iron wyvern]

That's good then. The sense I got from the theology requirement was that it was very locked on catholicism

[hushed path]

For the first theology class, it focuses on like history of Christianity, but for your second theology class you can take pretty much anything you want in the theology department. I’m gonna look into what’s available but she made it sound very liberal

We didn’t spend much time talking about religion

I still have to do more Towson visits. So far I really like Loyola though

Bc it has everything I need/want

My parents/family are very narrowed in on Towson

I’m not sure how else I can convince them that Loyola is worth the extra cost

[iron wyvern]

what's the difference?

[hushed path]

Towson would be (I’m estimating here) around 14k, and 2 years. Loyola is 20k for 3 years

I’m sending pictures too

So my messages are loading slowly

[silent willow]

are you going to take out federal student loans

[hushed path]

I have the option, but I don’t know that my parents would let me

[silent willow]

i see

[hushed path]

Loyola goes to 15k if I can get it

The loans I mean

But I also don’t know if loans are smart or not

[silent willow]

loans are a means to an end

i don’t think 15k in loans can royally mess you up

[hushed path]

My mom is going to be very… insistent that anything federal is a no go. She is very very concerned with the current administration

I don’t really know what 15k in loans would equate to

[iron wyvern]

so double the cost basically

[hushed path]

I plan to do grad school so idk if the loans factor in

[hushed path]

It looks like it

I need to see if I can make it worth it to them

I need to give Towson more of a “want to go there” chance

But I’m becoming very attached to Loyola

Even the surrounding neighborhood is pretty

[iron wyvern]

yeah, but think big picture. You have ambitions that involve a LOT of grad school

that $30k can do work

[silent willow]

student loans are some of the largest single assets the federal govt has and the new administration is well aware of that, looks like federal loans are going to be moved under the small business administration

[silent willow]

i guess its also a matter of figuring out if the additional 30k opens up doors that make up for the cost

[hushed path]

One of the things we were falling about earlier is that with an additional year, I’d be able to take advantage of more stuff (research namely) which could equate in better grad school outcomes. Is that… accurate?

I’m gonna start driving home now but I’ll try and talk when I get home

[hushed path]

OK GUYS IM BACK

[hushed path]

What should I do to find out if that’s the case

Idk how I’m supposed to quantify 30k more

[silent willow]

it’s a bit tricky since it’s you don’t have premonition of grad school outcomes

at the end of the day i think it comes down to figuring out if the extra year is worth it, as ~14k per year and ~20k per year aren’t crazy different

[hushed path]

Yeah

How do I go about figuring that out? Idk I feel a little lost as to how I’m supposed to figure out the value of the additional year

And then convey that info accurately to my parents

I also don’t really know how limiting the 2 years would be

[iron wyvern]

not everything can be quantified

[hushed path]

Well, even then, I just need to be able to produce something that I can talk with my parents about that makes the additional year “worth it”.

And im just a little lost on what I’m supposed to do to make that

Would it be helpful to find like a list of grad programs I’d be interested in, and then see which school would be better suited to meeting those requirements?

[iron wyvern]

you can look

i don't think that will be so simple

[hushed path]

Loosely speaking, what kinds of factors should I look into when evaluating the value of an extra year in your opinion

[iron wyvern]

Another year to double to cost, when you have expensive plans subsequent to undergrad doesn't seem to make sense

like what are you hoping to do with another year?

[hushed path]

Wait I have a different question, aren’t like PhD and postdoc and all of that all paid?

[iron wyvern]

PhDs yes

but poorly

[hushed path]

Thats kind of what I’m trying to figure out here lol. As a school in general I pretty strongly prefer Loyola academically and socially and just like overall. But I need something tangible I get out of the extra year,

And I’m not sure how to figure out what that tangible thing is

If anything

[hushed path]

Am I going to be able to study abroad in a two year program?

[hushed path]

Study abroad is a big deal for me

[silent willow]

that will be tricky

since youll be in upper division

unless its like over the summer, but that takes away from other opportunities

tbh itll also be a bit tricky at a 3 year school, definitely some good questiosn to ask

[hushed path]

I’ll have to ask them early

As soon as I commit type shit (that rhymed)

[hushed path]

Summer internship abroad

Wonder if that’s a thing I can do

Study abroad/something abroad is like… the thing I am most excited for about college

[silent willow]

this would likely have to be some research thing in europe or canada or whatever

[hushed path]

Which would be cool asf

Let me see if either of them have that actually

[hushed path]

Loyola has 2 guaranteed internships for students of my major

They have a summer research thing too https://www.loyola.edu/loyola-college-arts-sciences/divisions/natural-applied-sciences/research-faculty-highlights/hauber-summer-research/

[hushed path]

Soooo…. Theoretically I’d earn a rough total of 10k or so from UG research stipends bc of my CCs opportunity

Boom extra year of college paid off (mostly) easy peasy lemon squeezie

[silent willow]

enticing...

[hushed path]

The head of the bio department I mentioned too that I know also reiterated to me that study abroad is a big deal at Loyola

[silent willow]

i really do believe its the better school for you, i just hope you can justify the costs

[hushed path]

I am in the same boat of thought

[silent willow]

guaranteed research with stipends can def boost your grad apps and thats the end goal

[hushed path]

I reached out to my AO and I have a meeting with financial aid

[silent willow]

if you were to justify it would your parents cover it or is this a you thing

[hushed path]

To see if I can motivate some cost

[hushed path]

Parents ideally. I wouldn’t be able to do it on my own

They’re not gonna let me take out loans

[silent willow]

i c

[hushed path]

Could I use the research stipends to cover the cost maybe

Additional cost I mean

[silent willow]

yea

[hushed path]

Maybe I could pull up with a 5k from CC research, cover 5k for the first year

Pull up with 5 k from Loyola

Cover 5k for the 2nd

That’s 20k for two years for them

And then

The last year is the last 20k

And I gotta figure out how to pay for that

Wait no

I’m just dumb

First two years is 30k so end cost is 50k

Vs 30k

If the internships are paid I can use that

Ro help

And continue to work at the vet

[silent willow]

hmm

[hushed path]

Bruhhh

Why couldn’t Loyola just accept more credits

Make ts easy

[hushed path]

Yo chat

Yo chat

If I apply to this program

I

Can go to Towson

For completely free

And get a stipend

Holy wow

[silent willow]

ooh

[hushed path]

https://www.towson.edu/fcsm/departments/stem/bridges/baccalaureate/

[hushed path]

Nvm Deadline passed

[hushed path]

Bro how th do I get research experience at Towson when I only have two years bruh

Are they gonna let me in right away

Man I don’t know what to do to get excited about Towson

That program was like

The key to actually having any interest

[hushed path]

Relevant courses at TU;

Animal Parasitology

Mol Cel exclusive:

Electron Microscopy

Histology

I’ve already taken microbiology

Biotechnology

Microbiology of infectious disease

Immunology

Ecology Exclusive:

Humans, Science, and the Chesapeake Bay

Tropical Field Ecology

Entomology

Intro to GIS

Invertebrate zoology

[hushed path]

Yo chat look at this

Yo chat

Goated asf

[iron wyvern]

seems pretty good!

[hushed path]

One of my professors at my community college is also getting me admission as a guest to a big conference type thing for the American Society of Microbiology

[calm brook]

as long as you can start doing research day 1 you'll be fine. and also continue research in the summer.

[calm brook]

yeah they can

[calm brook]

whoah. I'd email them rn tbh

[calm brook]

honestly yeah you'll be more than fine if you go to either Towson or Loyola.

Depending on the state of the NIH in this administration you can also do a couple paid research gap years as a research assistant in a lab before applying to PhD school which I know tons of people who do that.

Including myself, haha

[hushed path]

It’s a bit late now but I’ll look into it tmr fs

They may be at the conference I’m not sure

[hushed path]

Innnnteresting

[calm brook]

you should ask!

[calm brook]

ooh these look great. the ecology topics seem more related to your research field of interest

[hushed path]

Yo this woman lowk famous

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kishana_Taylor

She has her own Wikipedia page that’s crazy

[hushed path]

What should I say?

[calm brook]

wait which school does she work at?

[hushed path]

Towson

[calm brook]

Ok. I'll dm you

[hushed path]

We are up chat

[hushed path]

All of the students I talked to at Loyola in a little mini student panel got waitlisted at ivies

[hushed path]

Can someone mark this tag as decided I can’t tell how

I’m making a second one with a different school for my actual final choice

[hushed path]

@silent willow Hey Wiggle! If ur available you can close up this thread. I’ve moved onto a different school X vs Y between Dickinson and Towson