#Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) (2024-2025)
1 messages · Page 4 of 1
not this yr for ED
Yea same for me
got a deferral tho so chances are there
I did cs first choice
cs cmu is crazy good luck
Im a senior lmfao
i rlly like working w hardware
and if im coding, i enjoy being able to do some off side work in hardware
let me in fr
Its got character, it is funny
I do enjoy it
Its very atypical tho
Like its built on a ravine lmao
So you get things like floors 1, 3, 4 and 5 from the cs building all being "ground floors"
The humanities section of campus (left of the grass area (the "cut") if youre looking from forbes is like more normal
Discounting the tennis pit which is funny
The right side (mostly stem) is pretty much all connected via tunnels/covered bridges
Fingers crossed!
I think ece you can do a lot of systems stuff too (you guys have 213 as well; intro to systems)
RAVINE
i thought that was pickle ball
ngl
Its funny
lwky it makes sense
the bridge to the library and the main gates building
i always wondered
why there were tunnels on our tour
The idea is like
If you go right on forbes while facing cmu you eventually get to a bridge going over the ravine
Theres a train going under there
I think this is taken from tepper
Its a freight line
So no passengers 😔
Photo taken from under
Anyway the ravine has a garage you can ride the elevator up 5 floors to get to a separate outdoor area that connects to floors 3 of gates and newell simon
This area
(Seen from floor 6 of gates)
Other angle facing the other way
SCAM
lwky looks a sandwich pile
oh cmu campus ur so pretty
Us cs majors call it a "stack" /j
i giggled at thag 😔
Good
the cs id growing on me
The best part of pittsburgh is the fall tho
The weather is best and the colors are amazing
(Schenley park)
wait omg
Early fall?
Ah
wait october
I see
this is all i ever wanted from the weather
Like right behind porter/baker hall you enter schenley park
Theres a big field but like
If you go deeper there are trails
Theyre not super long trails but they are in nature
so it’s kinda like the perfect suburb
Its a little more urban than a suburb
yeah it’s just lwky kinda shocking seeing this much between
esp compared to nyc where anything nature like is an hour away
Ye
oh wait like one more question how did u know prior to committing that cmu was for you
pittsburgh is definitely more urban than my home town of sunnyvale in the bay area but if you go a little farther from campus/oakland you get more suburban vibe
It was either cmu or ut austin (turing scholars) for me
They were the best options i had gotten into
oh yeah austin is cracked too
I picked cmu because the course listing was rly huge for cs courses lmao
fair enough, cmu is one of the only few colleges thatd allow me to do policy w enginnering
Also my parents did grad school here so
but my biggest fear is me finding out i don’t wanna be an engineer
They biased me a little
Hm what makes you think you might not like it
wait awe that’s kinda sweet in a way
Its funny i was born here but we left to the bay area when i was like 1
So i have no memories
my only real fear is me finding out enginnering isn’t my passion entirely, i love working with hard ware and exploring the generals of it (i’ve done projects and research blah blah) but i rlly enjoy law and mock trial so idrk how the switch would go & cmus role in that
bc ultimately i love cmu
i don’t regret EDing to it and i’d do it again
Ah so you have like multiple passions
yeah
And you dont know what to pick
Id say that what matters more than choice is execution
You can prob have a cool career in anything its just how you do it thats what matters i think
yeah that’s kinda why i’m with cmu bc of their duo combos in majors
If ece is anything like cs... it may be brutally hard to do two majors
but often times is what happens if i transfer, the process, and the people i met alongside enginnering
But like engineering w public policy is one major so
I dont know
Ik like the bxa programs (cs + some art thing) are like lighter on cs than raw cs
Which tbh would be unmanageable any other way
yeah i always wondered how that worked
is CS at cmu both hands on and theory
or is it leaning to one or the other
srsly woah
The way the cs program works is there are the core (obviously) and theres also a little bit of everything (you have to pick one course in several categories - ai, systems, etc). Then you also have to do like 4 courses in one area (concentration) or a minor outside of cs
The core courses are like somewhat theoretical tho
Like not much circuits or hardware at all
the college of fine arts is nice
Its apparently pretty good
The building is cool too
They didnt pay their engravers enough so they put a butt in engraving
the symphony is ass tho icl
i’ve been in the pre college orchestra for three years
Oh
omg my bad i fell asleep 😭😭
ohhh i see lwky would you say there’s room to do other electives as well
Cs electives or gen ed electives?
either tbh
I pretty much finished a semester early, almost 2. But i had a lot of ap credit coming in. Take of that what you will (lots of time to do extra stuff)
hello that’s hella impressive! congrats! i don’t think i have that many AP credits due to my schools # of them but super excited to explore things either way
really wtf
I didn't hear about that, I just knew school of art applicants can't EDII
thats dmb.
i unf do not control cmu 😔
but it makes sense imo
its gonna help w reducing the delay in rd
cmu is getting rlly popular rn
and it probs a way to help deal w it
dude
lowk
idk how cmu is not at least a t15
like i think if u swapped cmu and caltech around
depends on the felid
everything would make sm sense
ermm..
i feel like cmu is more or less good at everything no
like caltech is insane at stem but ass at the humanities
that doesnt make sense
and cmu is like
yeah
they bulit their rep
erm
maybe like biological sciences
depends on which STEM
like they got enginnering down
but the sciences they need to work on
its better by a bit
they have a long standing name
nobels, etc
id choose cmu over caltech 100%
but its a bit crazy to say
theyre better overall
i think cmu is closing the gap fs
but they have a few years
nah
even if cmu was like 100k more expensive id tgo go cmu
lmao
ok imo mit has caltech rejects vice versa, the name mit rejects is silly
but also
it depends on what ur studying
mit is generous w aid
and most admits are from the east & might not wanna leave
we dont know the full reasons
but ^^
Yea then you can take advantage of required geneds
aura i’m also doing engineering public policy along with ece
ehh u cud argue about pure natural sciences
like caltech physics is def better than cmu physics
awesome sauceeee 😁😁
humanities kiddo at heart every day
wait that’s soo cool (NO BIAS!!), is it manageable? what type of classes do you take? overall impression?
so far very manageable but rn i’ve only taken the intro to ece last sem and the intro to epp and the gen ed’s for ece
I see so the pace is pretty comfortable freshman year ‼️ What does EPP focus on the first class?
mostly defining different types of policy and so far it’s been like modeling different scenarios and estimating and whatnot
wait that’s actually rlly fun, are there non enginnering majors there? did you think it was hard to double (get approved)?
EPP is really easy to double with engineering, but like there’s 3-4 non engineers in that class out of 50ish in the intro class
oh thank god, i lwky was scared of the double major terror rumors. side note does cmu have any bumper karts or things like day nearby?? i’m going out w friends & id hate having to wait MONTHS to do so again
yeah there’s zone 28 arcade nearby and there’s a dave and busters and there’s lots of thrifts in pittsburgh and lots of bars and clubs and whatnot if ur into that
I never went to a dave’s and busters before omg
ok i’m learning way too much for a school im not even accepted to—feeding the wrong delusions
but thank you so much!!
no problem!
when is CMU RD relase dae
it’s coming out like
before april 1st
most likely in batches around ~15/25 of march
Nerd engineering school
(I applied)
is pgh transit useful
iirc the T only serves the south side'
and dahhntahhn
very
i take the bus almost all the time
to get matcha or go thrifting or to go to the bars or clubs or to restaurants
everything relevant near cmu is bus accessible
Port authority! It does take you places i cant complain much
erm technically its pittsburgh regional transit now 🤓
im js playin
but yeah port authority pretty goated
If I applied mech e can I switch to ece?
wait that’s so insane have u ever tried nanas green tea
that’s the only matcha i rlly like
unf a big hater
i have not
idk if theyre changing it this year but generally yes as long as ur able to take the intro course as one of your two required intro to eng courses
please try nanas
it’s the best place
for matcha
idk if they have non nyc locations
so erm they don’t
if you’re ever in the coty
or those places: https://global.nanasgreentea.com/locations/
shi looks buss ngl
PRT (pronounced as port) (some may even call them an authority)
yo rs
they need to bring the T to north side and east end
it’s literally only the south suburbs
tear down all the dahntahn highways too
wait
think abt it
carnegie mellon
and like
carnegie hall
like
they're both carnegie
so if ive been to the hall
surley that means they let me in
How is student employment at cmu?
Wait I keep getting emails saying I have unfinished action items in my My Student Aid protal but my checklist has everything
email them
yeah i was getting that too...
i’ve eaten melons before
does that mean they’ll also let me in
omg my friend is a nana's green tea simp
ive heard so much about it
omg another person from cmu
NO YEAH ITS SOOO GOOD
i’m usually a matcha hater
but that place is sooo good
you have to try it one day
is it too late to send updates
my school's hackathon (which im a lead organizer of) was a few weeks ago
they refuse updayes
alr because someone in one of my classes told me cmu accepted updates for RD
CMU
SAID
WERE GETTING AN EMAIL
A WEEK BEFORE DECISIONS W EXACT DATE AND TIME.
AROUND SAME TIME LAST YEAR
IN INFO SESSION
do not get your hopes up they will pull that rolling bs again just to spite you
when is cmu finna come out
like end of march?
by april 1st
there's no confirmed date nor will be until they send an email out w that info (however, people say looking back on the previous admissions rates that it won't happen)
but they just said there might be so!!
bro
if cmu comes out
on ivy day
or the day after
im just gonna wait till the 28th to get rejected by like 10 schools including stanford
I'm so confused
but acceptances r usually emailed as well at least the day after right so if u dont get email u kinda know
Which is the best dorm?
they don’t email you the actual decision, they email that you have a status update
manifesting cmu (day 1) ‼️
manifesting cmu with httpsbina (day 1)
omg u went too 😭
no but colleges you get into send you emails afterwards like “congrats youre a ____!” or stuff like that which is what they meant
manifest berekly together too 😭
does CMU not have an application ID
no they don’t
provide your full name & birthday
if you’re really worried provide your HS
manifesting cmu with httpsbina (day 2)
manifesting cmu (day 2) ‼️
lol at least 4 yrs ago when i got in on the page where you download the letter with your admissions decision when the popup asking where to download appears the page changes to "now that you're in" spoiling it
(if you get in)
manifesting cmu (day 3) ‼️
i had a dream my parents bought me a lanyard that said carnegie mellon ____ enginners therefore it’s a sign edition
manifesting cmu too 🙏
lets go manifesting cmu 
How do you withdraw? i dont see the option
this is so cute lol
stop the dream they told me they were proud of me and this will all pay off eventually too 😭
omg ....
wholesome
manifesting cmu (day 4)‼️
manifesting cmu (day 4 !?!)
manifesting cmu (day 5)‼️
manifesting cmu (day 5)!
Ok now I feel bad for not submitting a loci
Wait is this asking about a loci
no apparently my counselor messed up my semester grades for cmu
idk how
but he emailed me
and i wanted to ask abt it
he said it’s small but
u never know
they said i can email it to them abt the issue
i can feel my cmu acceptance trust guys
itll be really funny if i get into scs but not bcsa
we're all gonna get in trust
its gonna be great
manifesting cmu day 6!
manifesting cmu (day 6)‼️
manifesting CMU day 6351 
manifesting CMU day 6352 
manifesting cmu (day 7)‼️
i wish carnegie mellon had aid for intl 💔
manifesting cmu day 7
did anyone get the email
bc i just remember seeing someone get it at 3/4, crashing out, then going to eat pizza in defeat to see i got deferred at 4/5
like NO warning
nope lmao
pls lemme in
im not the guy who gets in everywhere thats mgl
manifesting CMU day 6353 
manifesting cmu (day 8)‼️
Do we think it will come out mar 15th like last year?
manifesting cmu day 8!
according to them
it’s still up in the books
it’s gonna come on a friday
i’m guessing
hope they don't waitlist everyone this time at least
🙁🙁
hope they accepet me
my counsler literally called them to talk abt me after i got deferred apparently
then I wonder if 14th will be mit and cmu? 🤔
noo dont do this to me
thank god i didnt apply to mit 🙏
i think its the next week w jhu, ucla
yo I misread this and scared me
LMAFO
did you ever figure out if they accept updates?
i have some stuff i'd like to send as well
I sent one yesterday, will let you know if they accepted
You can try sending it regardless, I don't think there's any downside to doing so
aight thanks
i sent one 2 weeks ago and they said they dont accept
Cooked
they said second or third week of march
Will it be the 14?
idk
manifesting cmu day 9!
manifesting cmu (day 9) ‼️
manifesting CMU day 6355 
how are cmu aos so efficient
no one wants to suffer at cmu
except us masochists
lwky i’m wondering
if it’s gonna come out the 14th
because they told me second to third week of march
second week of march was 15th and then rolled
so would that happen again
I'm wondering the same. Waves like last time? 🤔
manifesting CMU day 6356 
manifesting cmu (day 10!)
CUM
manifesting CMU day 6357 
does anyone know when its coming outtt
march 14th or 21st
Wait you called them or they called u
Pray my rec letter does gods work
is why they didn’t answer my email
Is this confirmed? Did you call them ?
manifesting CMU day 6358 
I guess it's been explained in the comments, it's unsafe and a restricted area
i remember during my campus tour that the guides said that they were allowed to use it during the winter 💀 💀
is that a gaslighting tradition
rip
cmu manifestation day 12!!!
they’re restricted unless on specific tours you normally wouldn’t be expelled but this brick was probably doing graffiti or somethn illegal
did anyone else receive an email from carnegie mellon abt fin aid?
i’m trying to figure out what else they need but i don’t have access to my computer
email in question btw
i did a while ago yeah
i think they send that to everyone who doesn't access the portal or smth like that
i got this email on 1/23 lmao
I think the problem is
Literally everything you asked
Takes less than one google search to find out
ok so back in the golden hr of college admissions tiktok—this was the advice i was given 😭
there’s no need to get like that over smthing a year ago, i didn’t rlly have resources to know what to ask or not to show interest in the school
the test optional thing wasn’t even on there back then & college supps change all the time
this was nearly a year prior to my app submissions
thats so crazy 💀
planning ahead like a boss
I didn't even go to the ao school visit cause I was busy
generational fumble
I didn't go because I'm a cheap ass
dont take all ur advice from tiktok or college counsler 😔
i was able to visit BARLEY but i am aware its a really unique opp + do appericate it bc i got to find out which cultural fit i need from a college
Brother it’s free what
I visited three of the twenty schools I applied to :/
oh shit rlly that’s super nice
i live near 2 of my colleges and visited another 2
Like atleast for me, the AO’s for like ~200 colleges come to my school and hold information thingys
And you fill out a form that they track for demonstrated interest
Case paid for me to fly up to Ohio, and then the other two are where I live 😋
too bad cmu doesn't do demonstrated interest 🫠
also why would cmu come to my city (in bumfuck nowhere)
CUM
surprisingly cmu came to my school
like last year
i still have the AOs card
im int btw
wait that’s insane
cmu requested a new fin aid doc & no details abt which parent kms
Any or both was what I was told
but it doesn’t apply for me 💀
when are cmu rd decisions out?
ohk ty
that was me & yeah
Look at acceptance rate of deferred ppl
💀💀
i’m lwky out of hope for deferred
but also don’t set out for a school
that’s the lesson i was taught
i fell in love w so many other schools—cmu being a favorite out of three won’t hurt as much if i’m waitlisted/rejected lwky
not disclosed
I'm assuming its p shit ig
too many people from a2c itself were deferred
yeah, i got in UIUC cs, purdue cs+jmhc, umd cybersec so not super stressed it
but CMU is CMU
Ohh
Oh you got great cs schools
yeah uiuc is t5
plus their quantum stuff seems pretty attractive
did you apply rd?
Congrats
Yes!
for cs?
Yes
what were ur stats if i may ask?
i think u should like rescind ur app... it's not worth it
(getting rid of the competition)
wdym?
I didn’t know about usaco till too late and i haven’t done like some big project
wuts usaco 💀
Computing comp
oh is that USA only one?
damn
yeah..
thank you 😭
i mean its bad enough for us
CUM UNIVERSITY
so i imagine intl can only be worse
melons
Good luck!!!
yeah idk anyone who got in pure cs
ikrrr
got rejected :(
alot of people get in for mechanical and gies from India doe
Aw
i applied econ cmu from here
let’s see
🫡
I didn’t apply to uici
I wanna double major/minor in phys
I need aid 😭
but very hyped for cmu
oh you're cooked
yeah their quantum is very strong
have u done any quantum so far?
Sigh i hope most of my schools are need blind
quantum computing in hs?
yeah
only a summer course but i've recently been getting into it a lot more
or mechanics
am getting cooked by griffiths 🥴
how tf dy even 😭
that's cool, can i dm u
sure :D
unless some program/prof
pick up leonard susskind or mike and ike
ibm q composer
ah i thought u meant research
now azure quantum also
in quantum
i took a summer course at bwsi
yeah yeah can do theory stuff, and if want run on q composer
crazy bruh
and u got rejected from cmu?
besides alot of profs would be willing to work w/ u if u show them u r not incompetent
good luck 🙏
gl to u too 🙏
🐐
nah they don't, i think u should cancel ur app
bro ong
all the cs applicants should
LMAO
these stanford dreamers only like it cuz grade inflation fr 🤦♂️
professional gaslighter 😭
dw bro
💪
LMAO
lame
I MADE CANCER
do u have any idea how profitable it is?
treating it is so much more profitable than curing it
cmu has entrepreneurship in their mission
bruh but i swear tm kids making startup’s for college apps
🤦♂️
relatively less in india tho compared to bay
yeah but people be faking their entire profiles here bruh
like focussing on school and academics for 2 yeras and at the end just paying councellors and shi to fake and do everything
oh nah are u also in the trenches 🙏
but the good thing is, I have seen such people get aweful college decisions
which makes me feel good
so like we dont all look the same
true idc about that tho
i put an entire evidence google drive for all my activities
😭
just because india is known to fake SO much
like detailed proof of everything
good thing is colleges are good at detecting fakes
apparently
they aren’t
ik a kid who faked entire profile and got in cmu
this cycle
my school asks for that, its compulsory, the school councellor vets ur stuff w/ all ur teachers and stuff b4 letting u send apps, its nice
from another school but i have no evidence against so i can’t even report 🤦♂️
BRUH
like it spread by him bragging he got in
through cheating
but how can i even fuckin report wo proof
find proof
that’s good
my counsellor doesn’t at all
why waste time and energy on one person bruh
it’s not even gonna affect my app
that +0.00000001% increase adds up
if im waitlisted
that they decide to accept
i’ll report
i’ll make the effort!
trick him into admitting
morals
upitt better
cmu manifesting day 17/18???
NRP
BRO
thats what i was legit just gonna say
"eager to visit the campus and expeirnce the vibrant environment firsthand" gives it away
i did NOT know abt using chatgpt before like this previous summer when i saw a kid use it to write code 😭
as a professional chatgpt user, you have to edit it a little bit
tell it to "use basic language"
professional 😭😭
i don’t think i used it for that email tho
i just wanted to sound professional when emailing a yr ahead for continued interest
wait why didnt u just search it up
the test policy back then wasn’t specified for the year coming up or smthing
i’m pretty sure
uhhh so was the essays—people kept telling me they’d switch so i asked
and then to like give them a heads up i asked abt visiting
anyway d1 cmu lover clearly
🙏🙏🙏🙏
real
i was going to apply to caltech rea
but then switched to harvard
still havent got yale interview yet tho
yale might have all it needs
yeah same
aura ngl
guys anyone find out anything abt cmu decision date 😢
march 14-15th
@mild galleon called cmu admisisons but idk he said two dates
Okay thanksss
admissions offices dont allow employees to disclose dates until theyre publically announced
but they have before 😭
esp during ED
they told me the date like nearly a week before
i mean i wont call again bc i didnt know that but it happens
also cmu notoriously has a lot of miscommunication within the office
to the point where every time someone tried to ask about the RD release date last year there was never the same answer
im just assming its before mar 21st bc call backs are happening for the BFA kids
but thats a whole other process
..but also like DAMN 😭
as a bfa student colleges of fine arts admit on a different timeline than the regular admissions office
but i had friends who appiled get around the same time during ED this yr so... small improvements cmu
small improvements 🙏
also cmu normally only calls mt majors when they get in
oh deadass, i saw like 8 kids complain abt no call backs and what not on tiktok 😭
i mean callbacks are when they ask you to come audition again
calling is when they call the mt admits to tell them they got in ahead of decision release
oh yeah and cmu takes likeee 12 kids a year?
for musical theatre yea
but like the head of my program has known the admits for this year since february
why do i feel like u alr did or am i schizo
i could like pu the tiktoks to check the type of call but seemingly things are slowly rolling out for at least a group
yea the mt program just does that when theyve made final decisions
no i did but apparently things might be different bc the office is messy but seems like there wont be a answer
ohh
either way im hoping its either next week or the following
wait calm tho 🙏
more time to keep my inner peace
i mean one of my friends tried to send an update letter
and they told her
that if they do take it
no gurantee its read
bc theyre nearly done w reading
yeah fair enough
sooo close enough
last yr it was the 15th and rolling
might just be the same deal
wait so some decisions might not come out w others??
brooo dont edge my rejection
oh i see
ill pray
and we all get our decisions on the 14th
ughh thats so scary
and enjoy our cmu acceptance weekend
i need to accept im gonna be rejected so im not heartbroken
they do it to keep high retention because cmu is so selective that their admits likely got into the other top programs (umich, nyu, penn state, elon, etc) so it helps keep cmu in the back of their minds while theyre getting other decisions
the rolling stuff last year was such bs
nah it helped w my ed rejection
did i cry
yes
not nearly as much as my qb rejection tho
i kinda assumed id be deferred but it still broke my tiny cmu heart
i wish i applied ed to cmu but i also dont idk
i dont wanna be bound to any school in any way
i mean that makes sense in the long term and short but wish that appiled to other schools too
then dont do ED
😭
i know way too many kids brekaing their NYU ed
yes i realized that now 😭
and i hope karma gets them
tbf if i did get in my ed school i wouldve gone
bc these kids can afford nyu (diff situation if they cant but..they can
but oh well
cause my aid prob wouldve been enough
but rn cmu is my #1 after that but im still not completely sure
i mean its only the school of drama that does it lol
because the application timeline is much different
yeah dont they have to do like
yeah w auditions and stuff but a girl can hope for early
i was lwky a little shocked abt cmus enginnering policy
wdym
bro same
i need to check the phamplet for cmu
woman in stem low income first generation filipino lgbt 
if im remebering right
wait u kinda mogged me
wait me too OMGG
oh yeah i remembered wrong but 433 for a first year class enginnering was a lil heartbreaking 😔
i need to do it for my six toe’d community
you apply w the common app then do a supplemental artistic application, then they review your artistic app and if they like it they do an academic pre-screen to make sure you'll get into the school and they're not wasting their time, then they notify you between mid-december and mid-january if they want you to interview or audition, then they make their final decision
46 women 52 men and 2 nonbinary
yuhh adhd for me too and severe depression/anxiety i dont remember which one counts
also the near-universal deadline is december 1 so its rough out there
oof
it hurts 💔
oh yeah most of my schools had a BFA program and this made me upset for the BFA kids
i cant imagine having to do all that
i was fighting for my life
hmmmm
praying to be apart of the 46%
there was one weekend where i had 6 interviews friday-sunday
i barley did 4 EA schools.. how yall did it is insane 😭
WHAT THE HECK..
arent most interviews
around the country
so youd have to fly
wow thats expensive
no i didnt know half of these schools did ea
no only like three of mine were in person
are there not online ones
i wasted my ed and it hurts
yeah
and they were all within driving distance
wait thats calm
i did so many ea
osu screwed me over tho
the rest were online which made me kinda bummed i didnt have an option because the in-person interviews were great and i was driving distance from all but four of the schools i applied to
told me they were missing my act so i paid to send it and then canceled my application because i “never sent it”
$20 wasted
💔
awee i mean at least you got to some ngl, visting colleges is so nice
its an experience i think most people should take
i would have gone on a road trip to michigan but the only in-person interviews they had were on fridays in february
i did the same thing for gt, i my ac forgot to send in my sat
i went TO
70$ that couldve been spent on vinyls and yarn 💔
im lwky worried abt deferral for cmu
FRRR
no i believe in u
uiuc didnt 🙏
i believe ❤️
im gonna open all of my letters to i believe by caroline polachek
because i believe ❤️
i remember my mom recorded my deferral
and her eyes lwky drained
and my friends all called congrualting me before i could tell
😭
i need the comeback unf
they thought you would get in?
yeah
thats crazy
everyone was lwky rlly convinced
it my #1.. i was too inlove w it
because she didnt get a princeton interview
she was screaming, and crying
she was worried id pass out
nauuuuuu
the only reason i wish i got into somewhere ed
is so i wouldn’t have to waste more money on apps
is that the ca limit?
theres only a limit on common app and scorir
ic
but u can use those 2 to get ~40
by applying thru scoir?
