Purdue vs UMN vs Cooper Union & others

[pseudo snow]

Schools: Put the two schools you’re comparing here
Intended major: ChemE, focus on pharma/tech. I want to minor in business/cs and maybe philosophy too.
Currently in the FYE Bio/Ag E program at Purdue, so I'll have to CODO.

UMN
Pros: Honors college, cheapest by 9-10k/yr. MCOL and many paid research opps. Best location + near Vietnamese/Asian community, comparable to Purdue in ChemE, outcomes p decent, intl office seems supportive. May be able to graduate with 3-3.5 yrs of full-time tuition, 4-4.5yr total w/Co-op. Easy transfer within engineering school (including CS). Strong business prog for minor.
Cons: Reputation/prestige not as good as Purdue in general and CU on the east coast. Very cold.

Purdue
Pros: Most prestigious in engineering, has a Vietnamese community. Outcomes seems slightly better than UMN, and higher earning potential if I do CompE. ChemE has data sci concentration so don't need CS minor.
Cons: Have to CODO to FYE and then apply to ChemE. Higher cost (46k/yr). Still bad weather. Can't switch to CS.

Cooper Union
Pros: Location, lots of connections just not for ChemE
Cons: ChemE not that great, so I'll probably have to transfer to ElecCompE, and I'm not great at Math and would basically have to twist my experience and take up a whole new field (easy to transfer tho). Cost: 48k first year. Rigorous (18-20 creds for all semesters)
Note: If I get RA from sophomore, cost would drop to 33k, and 45k if renting off-campus apartment. Tuition is not going to increase.

Tiebreaking considerations:

• job prospects, industry connection, strength of minoring in business-financy stuff.

Other options: Denison - CS + Biochem, 33k/yr. UDel: 43k/yr.

it's funny that I can guarantee doing only 3 yr of class for UMN if I switch to CS and also fewe creds/sem.

[pseudo snow]

ok Cooper just gave me 10k more like literally now in merit aid ?!?!?

[alpine dune]

since you got admitted to cooper, u should've got a half tuition scholarship because of their alumni donations

this should drop it to around 22.3k ignoring the extra 10k u got

[amber lodge]

seems like cooper would be best if that is the case

[pseudo snow]

nope

38k is already including the 22.3k

original cost is 70k, then they drop 22.5k, and then another 10k.

there's intl fees and health insurance too, and campus residential hall is 14650/yr for a double.

so that's why it's ~39k

Also cost is a concern, but not too much. My parents can comfortably afford 35k (Denison CoA is 33k including intl fees, personal expenses and insurance) and 40k will need me to work and stuff + maybe small loans

[alpine dune]

Oh well I’ll try to tell u about cooper then in general

It’s located in Manhattan so costs of living will be on the higher side but u can always manage since there’s so many ways to get by

It’s well known in New York but less known outside of it

[pseudo snow]

I'm estimating 5k for food and 2k personal expense in the 39k

since I'm intl I don't qualify for any financial aid here but I can get extra merit to bring it down ig?

[alpine dune]

I think my friends are able to live off of less for food

[pseudo snow]

that's why I said I'll probably need to change to ECE or smth...

[alpine dune]

I think first year

All engineers take the same weed out courses no matter the specialization

so I assume that means u get the leeway to switch but I’ll tell u once I ask my friend

[pseudo snow]

first semester, yeah.

and then 2nd one you get 1 specialized class

[alpine dune]

for actual living, ur like two bedrooms but 4 people in 1 big room

and there’s a kitchen and a bathroom

[pseudo snow]

that's fine. My current roommate have trained me for everything except for substance use

ironically he's also going to Cooper (ED admit)

[alpine dune]

some of my friends have the occasional weed using roomates so just acknowledge people can get high

the substances are easy to get in Manhattan

[pseudo snow]

literally my personal statement 💀

[alpine dune]

Overall great engineering school tho but weigh ur options

Gl 👍

[pseudo snow]

yeah having to cook would be quite annoying

I'm still kinda leaning towards UMN

[alpine dune]

I’m just gonna say if ur doing 3 years make sure ur really good at cs

because u want a job ready before u graduate meaning internships as well and I think u get the whole job market situation

[pseudo snow]

No I won't actually do 3 years.

I'll do co-op for a term or two

and then graduate right on the mark.

[alpine dune]

What is UMN again

[pseudo snow]

Minnesota Twin Cities

t10 ChemE I think

[alpine dune]

oh alr

Then yea sounds like u got a plan

all up to ur preferences in the end 🤝

[pseudo snow]

thanks

I'm visiting this sunday

will see how it goes

[alpine dune]

alr getting back to the monthly cost of food for my freinds

70$

somehow

[pseudo snow]

$70/MONTH????

Are they dumpster diving????

[alpine dune]

ye i was surprised too

they live off it surprisingly

[pseudo snow]

Ok I'll stick with $300, which would make it $2700

Tell them to send tips plz 💀

[coral barn]

meow

[coral barn]

yes

[pseudo snow]

Hi?

[alpine dune]

thats the person in question

[coral barn]

ratatatatat invited me

im the cooper pooper

that lives off $70 a month

[pseudo snow]

I'm coming there this Sunday

[coral barn]

it's very possible

[coral barn]

YO

nice

admitted students day?

[pseudo snow]

For admitted student day (engineering)

Yes

[coral barn]

nicey nicey

i was gonna be there as a helper but cant anymore ;-;

cuz plans 😔

so is cooper ur final decision or just deciding?

[pseudo snow]

How rigorous is it?

Between Cooper and UMN twin cities right now

I'm intl, and the cost for both are similar tho MN is slightly xheaper (37 vs 39k/yr)

Do you recommend living in the residence hall for the first year, and how competitive is RA? Also how much of a time commitment is that gonna be?

[coral barn]

it's pretty rigorous
tho it really depends on the teachers...
i got screwed over freshmen fall semester and now my gpa is in the dumps 💀
but it'll get better 🥲

it really depends on ur work ethic

but cooper is pretty work heavy in general

[pseudo snow]

Yeah it's like that everywhere esp Engineering, tho I'm sure Cooper would be harder.

[coral barn]

(join cooper)

[pseudo snow]

It was mainly UMN until this afternoon when they sent me 10k in merit per year

[coral barn]

yes! i saw that u said ur parents can afford 35K
an extra 14k shouldnt be too bad then 😃
it's honestly one of the best decisions ive made, as a dirt poor $70/monther

it's convenient

better social life

cool dorm events

[pseudo snow]

35k is tuition + all other costs

Aight ima do campus housing if I commit then

[coral barn]

screw umn
join cooper
we give better aid

[coral barn]

yassss

they gave us free donuts for sitting on chairs yesterday

[pseudo snow]

Actually they're all merit aid 💀. I don't qual for fin aid cuz I'm intl. MN cost is also after 21k/yr aid

[coral barn]

aww
i see nvm

ohh international

dang

[pseudo snow]

Studying at a boarding school now that's why I can visit

[coral barn]

woaaah boarding school, cool

in nyc?

[pseudo snow]

No like 2-3 hr away

[coral barn]

oo i see

[pseudo snow]

How do you live on $70/ month 😰

[coral barn]

oh i forgot to answer the latter questions
RA is pretty dang competitive, but only soph and up can apply
but the time commitment shouldnt be too bad

[pseudo snow]

That would save a lot of money lol

[coral barn]

eat one $7 meal, spread across the whole day, every other day of the week
dont buy anything outside of food.

[pseudo snow]

I already do the last one lol

[coral barn]

also, cooper has a lot of cub events which give out free food

[pseudo snow]

????

[coral barn]

NICE ur already on ur way there

[coral barn]

i always just sneak in to grab the free food and leave

there's events almost every tues, thurs, and fri

[pseudo snow]

So... You only buy/make 3.5 meals/week?

And each is $7??

[coral barn]

yea
i used to make meals, which did save money
but my dang roommate would not wash their dishes and so the sink was filled above the faucet itself 27/4 and i couldnt even use it

so i gave up

[coral barn]

there's some cheap food here, among the expensive manhattan stuff

oh yea, when u have roommates, make sure u make ur cleanliness boundaries clear 😭

[pseudo snow]

$10/day of cooking would be reasonable for me I think, but where do you get cheap groceries in Manhattan or it'll be passed down once I got there lol

[coral barn]

XD
well there's a trader joes a couple blocks down, which has some really cheap stuff
do u wanna mainly cook all ur meals?

[alpine dune]

theres this one goated super market

[pseudo snow]

Yeah ig... But like I need two full meals a day (protein, carb, veggies)

[alpine dune]

in manhatten near cooper

has like everything u can think of in there even cheese

[coral barn]

i seee
well then it'd be harder to live below $100 a month
but you'd be healthy in return 👍
there's a LOT of markets neat cooper

a wegmans opened up like 2 blocks down with everything in it

there's Hmart 1 block over...

teso

lotsa convenience stores

delis

[pseudo snow]

If $200/month is doable, then it's still less than $2000 which would bring the cost down to more like $36k ~ UMN ig.

I saw on websites they said grocery is like $500 for NY

[pseudo snow]

Adding club food onto that

[coral barn]

i seee yeaa

[coral barn]

wowie

[pseudo snow]

Per month per person

Ok I'll talk to my parents, go to the visit, and decide

[coral barn]

yassss

good idea

tell me ur decision when u make it

just outta curiosity

[jaunty pawn]

I assume you have perfect stats?

[pseudo snow]

1540 SAT but like top 15% or so only (school doesn't rank). I haven't taken physics since 9th grade or any engineering ECs so idk how I got in lol.

[jaunty pawn]

Did you go to a magnet school or boarding school?

[pseudo snow]

I think it's cuz Cooper doesn't have bias against intl, but the merit aid was unexpected.

[pseudo snow]

Yes I'm going to a US boarding school on aid.

Also my GPA isn't the best cuz Calc BC lmao

Are you an alum?

[jaunty pawn]

Not ChemE, I’m a software engineer

I’m not an alum

[pseudo snow]

I heard Cooper ChemE isn't as reputable as its other engineering program

So I feel like I'll probably have change major once I'm there

I asked on the ChemE reddit and they all said they have similar rep, but Cooper is better in other fields.

[jaunty pawn]

Could you write them a letter asking if you could switch before you commit? Because if you want to switch to, say, EE, there’s a chance there are still EE vacancies and you might get a spot before they start admitting off the waitlist. Obviously not guaranteed but worth a try.

[pseudo snow]

I can switch after my first year and if my GPA is 3.5 or so.

My profile won't be admitted for EE tbh

I did some data analysis coding for neuro, and enzyme kinetics research and that's the closest I ever got to any engineering 💀, and those are big stretches.

[pseudo snow]

Also first year takes all the same classes but one iirc

[pseudo snow]

By "other fields" I meant fields other than ChemE...

[pseudo snow]

Is Co-op similar to internships? A consideration for my choices is that I can do a maximum of 1 yr of off-campus employment in America. I can p much reach or be close to that limit for UMN since I have a bunch of AP creds, but for Cooper I can only do a maximum of 3 summer internships, and 3 internships, esp paid, isn't close to guarantee.

[pseudo snow]

I'm leaning towards MN cuz Cooper has so few ChE profs...

[pseudo snow]

hi, do you know if it's difficult to get a 3.0+ GPA and switch major (ChE -> EE)? Also, do you have internal info ab placements, better yet for intls cuz I've emailed the career office a few times (a few days-weeks between each time) and received no reply 😭

From what I've seen, MN's ChE is quite a bit better than CU cuz of a bigger dept and has a better student:faculty ratio (CU 110:6 and MN's 400:36), but intls at both schools said that process engineering jobs typically don't even read ur app after seeing "need sponsorship" so I'm considering a major change

[coral barn]

oo

well

[coral barn]

for the first semester, it's not too hard to get a 3.0 because there are a lot of filler classes that will cushion ur grade. You can switch as long as you get that 3.0 and approval from the head chair of the EE major (Fred Fontaine). He's a nice guy.

HOWEVER, EE is a pretty popular major so there will probably be more competition for that spot.
also, if you dont get a 3.0 in your first year, that's ok. you have till the end of all 4 years to switch, as long as you do it before you graduate.

As long as you talk to the dean of academic affairs (Ruben Savizky) about planning to switch, he'll help you apply for the extra classes that are EE specific for each year.
the only real con about switching late is that the EE specific courses prioritize EEs, so if the class if full and there are multiple people on the waitlist, they will pick the EE over the non-EE(you).

also, what do u mean about placements?

[pseudo snow]

like post-graduation outcomes

oh nvm they just replied and invited me to a zoom meeting.

[coral barn]

ohh ok

[pseudo snow]

like this

[coral barn]

where did u get the student faculty ratio for cooper? there are more than 6 chem profs here, there's like 16 teachers

[pseudo snow]

thank you ❤️

[pseudo snow]

there are lots of Chem profs, but ChemE is only five or smth and one new is coming this fall. The UMN number is just in ChemE, and it more than doubles if I also count the Chem dept.

[coral barn]

ohh
bro lol i actually remember asking my dean about this when i applied and he said that there's so little people in cooper that they cant have too much public info cuz it'll literally be like a breach of privacy since it's easy to track who's who just from the data 😭
but the only info i can get is from the website:
"Among engineering graduates of the class of 2020, 95% were employed, enrolled in graduate school or other activities, within 6 months of graduation."

[pseudo snow]

I've heard too many horror stories from r/h1b (intl students temporary work visa) to disregard a general trend for intls at the school+major I'm going to

😭

[coral barn]

ahhh i see what u mean
i think here, they just count the chem as chemE cuz there's no seperate "chemistry" department anyways.
all the chem classes you will take are necessary for chemical engineering. if they arent necessary, they'll probably be offered as an elective for people leaning towards more pure chemistry.

[coral barn]

dang i see
the international student life is def complicated ;-;

[pseudo snow]

@coral barn I committed to Cooper Union 🫠

[coral barn]

Noice

Good luck
It'll be a tough experience but it'll be worth it

🫡‎‎

[pseudo snow]

So the UMN ChE student I talked to said that all the classes taught in the major is curved to a B- avg, and only top 5-10% get A so everyone fight each other and that pushed me to Cooper a bit more 🙃

[coral barn]

That's for a lot of colleges
It's just what happens when there's no grade inflation...
Although cooper gives you a good education and opportunities, it also has a pretty hard grading system

[pseudo snow]

I see that in EE a lot of ppl graduate with 3.8 which is crazy (linkedin), but I'll aim for like a 3.5 or better.

[coral barn]

Ooh yea
I think a 3.5 is a reasonable goal

A 3.5 is good

[pseudo snow]

💀

just wow

[coral barn]

Yea... some ppl are cracked

But u gotta realize that the ones who have bad grades prob wont be putting their grades on linkedin

In fact last semester the average cooper GPA was a 2.9

[jaunty pawn]

Do you think it’s because they have lax admissions standards?

Even Harvey Mudd is 3.3-3.5, Dartmouth is 3.5-3.7. I don’t think those are easier than Cooper, but they admit a lower % of students.

[coral barn]

Nah it's cuz there's way less grade inflation here

My professor teaches part time at columbia and he said they require him to give at least like 50% As, so he has to make assessments and grading way easier

Whereas in cooper they dont have that requirement since theyd rather give you harder material

And it ends up really taking a toll on ur grade

[coral barn]

Also, i should clarify that i meant average freshman gpa was 2.9
It's gets better later on

[jaunty pawn]

If students are getting 2.9 GPA’s that means a lot of them had 2.9’s in high school too

Unlike the stock market, past performance predicts future performance

[pseudo snow]

Yeah maybe lol, but then rlly specific people apply here so they have 20% AR for engineering but their pool is also more self-selecting than say Ivies. That's why Harvey Mudd AR is 13% which is ~1.5-2x higher than the ivies ig.

[coral barn]

im not sure about them.. it varies greatly for each grade
and idk what their avg freshie gpa is

[coral barn]

;-;; nahh
most of the ppl i know in cooper had basically straight 4.0s in hs
and speaking from personal experience, i also had a 4.0 gpa in hs but my gpa in cooper is horrendous rn LOL

but it's fine cuz apparently to compensate for the low grades they apparently curve your final gpa up? im not too sure abt this cuz i only heard this from an upperclassman :/

[coral barn]

btw i think id like to mention
i personally dont know what other colleges are like so everything im saying is relative to my own experience
also i dont interact with every circle in my grade so that's also biased