Help with F2L

[rare oracle]

first pair you should have inserted into back instead of rotating twice

second pair is okay

not the way i wouldve done it but okay

3rd pair i wouldve done blue red but you got a free pair when you did green red first soo i wont say anything

[worn cape]

but a lot of people are saying you just need to get used to ur solutions if your f2l takes 25-30 seconds. Which once i have the case, i can do just fine. even tho it may not be as efficient as fast solvers.

[rare oracle]

which pair are you talking about?

if second you can do it i didnt say its bad

[worn cape]

Not in this solve, in general when i ask for tips on f2l

[rare oracle]

idk but you said you want help for this solve

soo i told you what i think

[worn cape]

I m not arguing bro. just saying i get a lot of contradictory feedbacks

anyways, not just this solve ofc, with f2l improvement in general

what should i work on

to take it to the next step

[rare oracle]

yea cuz alot of ppl have different opinions

[worn cape]

This solve was 49 sec

I wanna get to sub 40

[rare oracle]

yea ig you should just get used to doing your pairs faster

[worn cape]

get used to doing my pairs faster? thats the question tho

how

lol

When you see this solve, whats the major thing that i m doing wrong thats holding me back

[rare oracle]

ig too much pauses and i think you need to think less when you choose which pair to do if that even makes sense

[worn cape]

yep pauses is issue but how do i not pause if i dont see where the pieces r

[rare oracle]

you should see a pair solve it without thinking about it

[worn cape]

i m not thinking which pair to choose, i m just looking for any pair i can find and just do it

[worn cape]

I am not thinking about which pair to solve

[rare oracle]

yea but i saw in the solve when you start a pair you pauses

[worn cape]

cuz i m tryna get it into the correct position

[rare oracle]

im not talking about which but talking about thinking during solvong a pair

[rare oracle]

yea you should have that in muscle memory to not think about it

[worn cape]

well i need to see where its corresponding piece is, then the position it needs to be to solve it

[rare oracle]

yea you should try to see both peices then solve pair without looking

[rare oracle]

you should try to remember where the edge is when trying to pair it with a corner especially when its not on the top layer

[worn cape]

wdym remember where the edge is, if i see it i know it, if i dont know it there is nothing to remember

[rare oracle]

do you start a pair without knowing where both peices are?

[worn cape]

no. if i know where both pieces are there is nothing to remember. it's just ok, for instance, oh the corner is here in top layer, where is the edge? there it is, i need to position this corner here and solve done

like that

i look for 1 piece, then find its other piece of pair then solve them after positioning it as needed

[rare oracle]

yea you dont have to pause that much for it

[worn cape]

ik i m pausing more than i should. what do i do tho

[spice geode]

yukio i think the problem is that you look for the [airs

pairs

which is why you pause

and to fix this you nee to go back to the beginning of the solve

in inspection and cross

[worn cape]

what do i do in inspection

[spice geode]

in inspection you should be able to plan your whole cross

i know you wanna do f2l, but your cross was kinda slow tbh

like wait give me a second

okay so in the cross you paused a lot to look for pieces

you also stopped yourself from solving an edge as you look for others

dont do that

you need to plan ur whole cross in inspection

[worn cape]

yea i fked it up mid solve lol. dw i m working on the cross. let's discuss f2l

[spice geode]

yukio the problem is they're all interconnected

[worn cape]

so my f2l is bad cuz my cross is bad?

[spice geode]

i cant give you tips on improving f2l right now because ur main problem with f2l is starting from the cross

[spice geode]

exactly

let me explain

if you plan ur cross out, executing it will be easier since you have to think and look less. You can turn slowly to avoi errors, and meanwhile start looking around for corners and edges for f2l

when you finish your cross you need to know immediately what ur gonna do for the first pair

[young vigil]

i would disagree at their level

[spice geode]

here we go

[young vigil]

you are right but lookahead not a thing to work on yet

[spice geode]

go on

paragraph incoming

[worn cape]

What should i work on right now, the immediate next step

[spice geode]

solve into back slots

[young vigil]

lookahead requires a few prerequisites:

• good solutions
• good fingertricks
• good recognition
• knowing how to find pieces
• solutions in muscle memory

if your solutiosn are inefficient and you drill them into muscle memory by working on lookahead then those solutions will be further ingrained making them harder to fix

lookahead isn't useful till like sub 12 minimum

[spice geode]

you'll c pieces more clearly

[spice geode]

im tired of debating so sure

[young vigil]

work a bit on cross, yiou could've planned at least 2 pieces on this scramble easily
never tilt the cube around, useless movement
learn to insert into the back
don't regrip for R U* R'
actually use edge orientation in solves

[worn cape]

is it making a pair from anywhere or just inserting a solved pair into the back

[worn cape]

I actually planned all 4 but fked it nd i was like wait what.... lol

[young vigil]

executing whole f2l solutions to insert into the back. you can start with just taking pairs out of different slots to see how pieces move

[worn cape]

tilt in cross or at all? cuz i need in f2l to look for pieces

[young vigil]

if you're working on planning cross then execute a fully planned cross with your eyes closed

[young vigil]

you never need to tilt the cube, rotate or do U moves to find pieces

[spice geode]

keep in mind the colors of th back slots so you can find the pieces ofr them during the cross or after, whereas you can quickly pair up and insert them. This lets you reduce movement because when you have thr front two slots left you can see all the pieces

[young vigil]

you have all the information you need of all pieces from any angle at all times

[spice geode]

thats too advanced

even i cant do that effectively i need to do a tilt or two during f2l

[young vigil]

sure ig but thought to mention it

actually looking for pieces instead of scanning the whole cube is an easy improvement

[spice geode]

who said he was..

[young vigil]

that's what beginners do

[spice geode]

yukio were u scanning the whole cube or looking for pieces of the slot u want to insert to

because that changes things

[young vigil]

even like sub 20 solvers just look at the whole cube instead of just looking at where pieces can be

[spice geode]

im offended but alr

jk

[young vigil]

its a generalisation

[spice geode]

i dont think so like as sub 20 i look for the pieces for my slot

so i filter out everything

then i move to the next one during the solution of the first slot

[young vigil]

good that you do that but a lot of solvers i've seen at that level don't do that yet

[worn cape]

EO? More concepts?

[young vigil]

edge orientation - we had discussed it a few days ago

[worn cape]

Lol ok so how do u know if the edge piece or corner u r looking for is in the back bottom. Without tilting or doing any rotation

[worn cape]

How

[young vigil]

there are 8 corners/edges to solve

you can see 4 in the U layer and 2 in the front slots
you are probably right hand dominant which means you have a natural tilt allowing you to get info about back right slot (vice versa if lefty)

you now have info on 7/8 pieces and through elimination you know whats in the final back slot

[worn cape]

Looking for pieces is different from scanning the cube how. I need to find this corner for the edge or edge for corner, how do i find it without looking

[worn cape]

I look for a piece in top layer. For instance if i see a corner, then i look for its corresponding edge

[young vigil]

obvious example is don't look at solved f2l slots. e.g. 35 seconds in you do a tilt to the back which is useless since the only main info there is a solved green red f2l pair

[young vigil]

this is not required yet but its required for you to understand how pieces are found effectively

[spice geode]

then wwhat should he do

i dont rlly understand what ur trying to say

[young vigil]

^

[worn cape]

u still need a tilt to see the opposite side's colors. the 4 corners in the U, 2 of them are at the back and i only see the top color, for all i know the other side is yellow and not white

[worn cape]

ok insert into the back slots. but u didn't answer is that after i pair stuff up or do i need to be able to take out corner pieces or edge pieces so they r already paired from any angle also. cuz if i already rotated to face that piece, it would be stupid to rotate again just cuz i wanna insert in the back

[worn cape]

rotate is required for those R U' R' inserts sometimes or u have to use a F move

[worn cape]

how do you recommend i use edge orientation in all this jumbo mumbo as well. all it tells me is if i need to rotate or not for this solution

[young vigil]

you can use that to answer your above ping

[worn cape]

how does that info help me, i m not gonna be like hey i know how to insert if i rotate to the left but if the edge says i don't have to rotate, let me think how to insert without rotating. thats a lot of pause nd thinking

[young vigil]

that thought process is correct, you will have to think

think in untimed solves and eventually those learnings will carry over to timed solves

[worn cape]

i dont get what you have recommended

the only thing i get is learn to insert in the back but for that too u have to answer. insert or also pair up stuff from all angles

[young vigil]

optimally yes you should be able to pair pieces for any slot for any angle (ish because bad edges)

[worn cape]

@spice geode What's your final recommendation for the immediate thing to work on besides improving cross (I am working on that separately haha <3)

[worn cape]

i think i have to give an example to explain what i m asking wait

lemme take a photo, i have an f2l infront of me rn

wait

lemme find a case

The edge is on top layer left side and corner is on the front right side in this photo ok

[young vigil]

so this corner right? just to make sure we agree

[worn cape]

nope

the edge is in top layer

orange blue

[young vigil]

oh i misread

[worn cape]

corner is on the front bottom

right

orange blue pair basically

[young vigil]

gotcha

[spice geode]

gimme a sec im busy at the moment

[worn cape]

so i know how to do the solution from this side of the photo ok

[young vigil]

facing green?

[worn cape]

i mean i have to rotate

[young vigil]

yes you do have to rotate

[worn cape]

i can solve facing orange

actually wait no

the way i solve this is from green side ok

do a U2

or U2' rather

same same

I put the edge on the right side where the corner is nd then i can solve it

dw abt the solution

[young vigil]

i don't follow but sure'

[worn cape]

when u say learn to insert from any angle

remember its not a pair thats made yet

i just have found the pieces

so given is: my solution is with facing green front

do u mean to solve this pair, which is taking out the corner in a way it is paired

and then inserting from anywhere on the cube any angle

or do you mean

being able to also take out the corner so its paired which is performing my solution

from anywhere on the cube

any side any angle

[young vigil]

i would rotate to face red then:

U R' U R to pair then just insert

[young vigil]

any side is a bit eh because as you correctly said from green you'd have to rotate so its kinda eh on that side

solve pair such that you can take corner out to make pair then insert wherever

[worn cape]

ok i mean this is a differnt solution from mine

i think i have just learnt the wrong solutions, this stuff is what jperm taught in his video

u r using something simpler

[worn cape]

so you just rotate first already from where you can solve it and insert in the back

this is too confusing man

[young vigil]

yeppers

[worn cape]

I need to completely redo my solutions then

[young vigil]

rotate into back because you generally want to solve backslots first (easier to just know where a piece is than deduce)

[worn cape]

how did u know where to rotate nd stuff

[young vigil]

edge bad so i need to rotate. I now have 2 options:

a) rotate to face orange
b) rotate to face red

if i rotate to face orange then i would solve that pair into front right which is no bueno because i would know what's there due to observation

if i rotate to face red then i would insert pair into back left which is a blindspot/hardest to find pieces and would eliminate the possiblity of any pieces i care about being there

so option b best

[worn cape]

interesting

can we go a bit more into this edge bad thing u think abt

[young vigil]

ask away

[worn cape]

ik EO and when an edge is bad but i don't completely understand. ok lets say i see EO tells me i need to rotate for this solution

what does it exactly mean

lets take an example

u know the speedcubedb f2l cases website right, gimme a case that shows this so i can set it up

[young vigil]

a bad edge?

[worn cape]

yea lets look into this thought process with an example

i like it but i need my brain to understand whats going on

[young vigil]

easy one

[worn cape]

what number case is this, lemme set up

wait

thats just

i dont need setup

i can do this one

[young vigil]

hedge

[worn cape]

lol

ok i have it

what are you thinking in this

[young vigil]

edge bad so i need to rotate

[worn cape]

yep

[young vigil]

either face ornage and U' L' U L or face red and i'll let you figure that out

red better to face since it solves a backslot

[worn cape]

ok that was easy

now gimme a hard one

so i can apply it

i got the concept

lemme apply it

gimme gimme

[young vigil]

setup: r U2' R' U R U' R' U M

[worn cape]

ok bad edge

orange or red

red better cuz back slot

lets see how the solution is

[young vigil]

don't invert this setup and actually use it as a solution, its bad

[worn cape]

ok yea i was able to insert in the back

nah i hate M moves

[young vigil]

good job

[worn cape]

I moved the corner towards red side where i was facing, moved away the edge pull the corner back out

nd then insert in ther baclk

[young vigil]

U R' U R U' R' U' R

something like dis?

[worn cape]

yep

exactly that actually

[young vigil]

tanfastic

[worn cape]

that just happens to be my solution for that case

ok so some of my solutions r ok

not all r bad

https://tenor.com/view/happy-tears-gif-25605273

i forgot what we were originally talking abt

was ur main recommendation to use EO? or was it something else

🙂

[young vigil]

yep p much

[worn cape]

don't be mad at me, i forgot the entire discussion

🙂

what was ur tip on finding pieces

cuz u ended up saying i think don't worry abt the 8 piece thing

[young vigil]

look at where they can be, don't scan the whole cube

[worn cape]

how do i think abt that

they cannot be in the solved slots

[young vigil]

yes exactly so don't look there

[worn cape]

what else, what abt my first 2 pairs

[young vigil]

dont regrip for R U* R'

also for orange green facing red you could've done F' R U' R' F

[worn cape]

🤔

[worn cape]

whats this

[young vigil]

optimal solution to your pair 2

[worn cape]

in the video?

btw EO is if edge is in top layer

what if i need to take out edge

how do i do that from anywhere on the cube to insert in the back

[young vigil]

if edge good in slot its good from either angle so no need to rotate or F moves
if edge bad in slot its bad from both angles so need to take out and y* or F moves or similar

[worn cape]

edge good or bad in slot? whats hat

[young vigil]

top one is bad edge in slot (flipped)
bottom one is good edge in slot (not flipped)

[worn cape]

so if its bad, what do i do

[young vigil]

depends on the case. in this example, U' sledge insert is best

[worn cape]

there is so much

idk

why can't there just be a video that talks abt how to do this stuff

so i can learn one step at a time

[young vigil]

example solves are a good starting point

i learnt that U' sledge insert from a faz vid

[worn cape]

nah example solves i hate, they r talking abt stuff that is too far from wher i need to be

[young vigil]

which ones have you tried?

[worn cape]

i have tried jperm ones

i nvr watch the full thing, cuz i dont absorb or get anything from those vids

[young vigil]

try cubeskills

this should have a lot of stuff which is about your level

[worn cape]

ok lemme watch the playlist

btw how do u like my new recording angle? i borrowed a tripod 🙂

[young vigil]

very clear

[worn cape]

I fixed the angle a bit more after the solve as towards the end my cube went out of frame

[worn cape]

How do u solve it if when u see the pair, u were facing green. Red blue pair. Corner is on top left and edge is to the right side down there @young vigil

Edge is in the middle layer so i cant use EO

[young vigil]

U F' L' U L F

its a bad edge so you need to use F moves

[worn cape]

no rotation?

[dry iron]

Learn how to insert into the back definetly

[worn cape]

hi

I m on it

[young vigil]

Bad from either angle so rotations does nothing

[worn cape]

so these ones basically always need a F move?

[dry iron]

And ik thats not the point why im here and idk if someone said but you misscrambled

Just so you know

[worn cape]

lol

thx

hey luca

[young vigil]

F moves, wide move, take edge out and rotate

Always one of those 3

[worn cape]

so like i m using the speedcubedb which has a bazillion solutions

is there anywhere i can see some recommended solutions for each case

[young vigil]

anything yRULD gen is probably good

[worn cape]

rotation and RULD moves

r good

yep

feels like it

[dry iron]

||also not the point of this but look in pll, if you did U2 it would be 1 look, cuz that was y perm, you just did it from the wrong angle||

[worn cape]

idk i do 2 look pll

[worn cape]

can you recommend a resource that has recommended solutions for all these cases so i can just go over one by one. not the speedcubedb cuz it has a lot of solutions for each case

[dry iron]

The alg you did was y perm, you just didnt know it was it

I also had that lol

[dry iron]

I mean i have one but idk if these solutions are good

[young vigil]

i don't know of any which just have a singular solution

[worn cape]

wdym, if i did y perm then i knew it was y perm

[worn cape]

how did u learn it

[dry iron]

@young vigil i have no idea if these are good

But its one solution per case

[worn cape]

is this what u do

[dry iron]

Some

[worn cape]

What do u do for this case and from which side

@young vigil

[young vigil]

i use first and 3rd depending on ll

[worn cape]

depending on last layer?

[young vigil]

yes

3rd one preserves eo, 1st one to avoid dot case

[worn cape]

ok lets forget abt that

choose 1

[young vigil]

just use the 3rd one

[worn cape]

and how will you do it if this was on the back left side

so if i m facing blue

[young vigil]

cry

just LU spam

[worn cape]

?

[young vigil]

there isn't any good solution for BL

R' E2 R U R' E2 R

[worn cape]

so would you just rotate and do it from the front then

https://tenor.com/view/disappointed-disappointed-fan-seriously-what-are-you-doing-judging-you-gif-17485289

[young vigil]

no i just don't get that case

[worn cape]

[young vigil]

L U' L' U' L U' L' U L U L' if you want something

otherwise you can rotate and do one of the less terrible solutions for this case w bad edge

[worn cape]

so all cases don't have a good solution

[young vigil]

not all cases are created equally, yes

[worn cape]

wait do i really need to learn 41 cases from 4 different directions then

[young vigil]

good idea to with some asterisks

a lot of the cases are just esoteric solutions to try avoid a rotation which you can just rotate to avoid