#elder-scrolls-lore

1 messages · Page 34 of 1

uncut hatch
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European

dusky scaffold
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It's the shape of Sheogorath's head

fallen panther
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It's more fun to think of it as an American football though 😂

uncut hatch
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tbh yeah

fallen panther
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Found a pic of the eight corners tho

image0.png
uncut hatch
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The Arena!!!

dusky scaffold
fallen panther
cosmic thistle
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""When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.""

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Prophecy_of_the_Dragonborn

Misrule is basically Tharn's usurping the throne but makes no mention about the staff

Lore:Prophecy of the Dragonborn
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Note how none of the heroes or how they won are mentioned in the prophecy

dusky scaffold
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because it's not the victories that shaped the world most, but the troubles that came before them

cosmic thistle
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Fair fair

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Kinda wild it doesn't mention anything from the books

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"When the floating city rampages through the Black marsh and strikes down cities"

uncut hatch
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don't get me started on how theres no mention of umbriel other then ysolda

cosmic thistle
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So much happens between the events of oblivion and skyrim that could be put on the wall

uncut hatch
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yea

uncut hatch
sleek grove
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I see Alduin's wall as a breif recap

dusky scaffold
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because it's a main game

sleek grove
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Many wouldn't of played Arena or Daggerfall but adding their general plot into a Prophecy is nice

uncut hatch
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i guess jagar did break the land... dunno if that counts

robust lintel
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Hindsight wall. What's all leading up to? Lol

uncut hatch
sleek grove
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I'm sure something will be prophecised in VI that they make for the next main game

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They seem to really like Prophecies

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I'm still putting my money on something somthing reincarnation, something somethkng Yokudan Warrior

robust lintel
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Prob. I just wonder if they'll eventually tie in the occured prophecies rom each chapter into some big event which just spurs change and more prophecies afterwards

sleek grove
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If it's not Hammerfell I lower my head in shame

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I have a good feeling they'll want to use Sword-Singing in some capacity. Idk just seems cool for gameplay

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I think we see it in ESO? I heard || Sai uses it,|| but haven't played much on the newer side

uncut hatch
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yeah theres sword singing in eso in base game i remember

sleek grove
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Throw something like Reincarnation and you eliminate the need for heavy training

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Also with that the hero could be any race

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Ofc they'll probably market a Redguard Hero tho

uncut hatch
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you get to become cyrus 2.0

quartz shuttle
uncut hatch
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wait does sword singing have a thing that happens?

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i thought it was just cool warriors doing cool stuff

sleek grove
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I'd like to see how they'd tackle Sword-Singing in the way of Mages that don't use weapons. Could expand it, or something. Idk

robust lintel
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I thought it was a musical sword

quartz shuttle
robust lintel
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Or like a musical of swords

balmy salmon
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The Warrior boss in ESO claims to have a shehai of an even higher rank than the one that sank Yokuda.

uncut hatch
sleek grove
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It's a form of Tonal Manipulation which I only know because the Dwemer mastered it

uncut hatch
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ok theres no sword singing in eso then

sleek grove
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Not for the player no

uncut hatch
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cause i didn't understand what it was

quartz shuttle
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No, the Redguard lost the art. Presumably, by taking up cursed blades to fight kff giant goblins

sleek grove
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Like the Thu'um it takes years of training. Unless you add reincarnation or something to do with the past then idk

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Maybe we could see the return of a old hero that brings it back. It's the guessing game rn, only evidence solid we have is Skyrim books and one quest

uncut hatch
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ebonarm good

sleek grove
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Todd likes the hero being special, or I'm horribly misquoting him lol

uncut hatch
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special heroes are fun to write tbh. you get more from them

sleek grove
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A Reincarnated Yokudan Sword-Singer imo sounds awesome on paper

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Hammerfell would be perfect for that type of thing. Far too early to say anything but eventually we'll get some real information. I'll be in my mid 20's by then Wut

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Nearly at that point

uncut hatch
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pfff same. hopefully i could get a good job or something by then

sleek grove
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I'll be involved more with Lorefield by then but TES, especially Dwemer, will always take my heart

cosmic thistle
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The worst thing Bethesda can do is bring back sword-singing without any of the intricate philosophical or spiritual side to it

fallen panther
cosmic thistle
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I'm very much hoping that TES6 does not have sword singing

fallen panther
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Mid twenties

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Lol, already mid thirties over here 😅

sleek grove
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I'm young, I can't grow facial hair

uncut hatch
sleek grove
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I'm hoping to build connections all over and contribute to the community by TES VI

uncut hatch
sleek grove
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Same, but Dwemer for me lol

fallen panther
sleek grove
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I would love to make a Dwemer beard but alas my genetics are not right for it yet

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If I shave enough maybe one day

proper ice
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Bruh I wanna see someone cosplay a dwemer now, beard and all

uncut hatch
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dwemer are using some powerful magic to get those beards

proper ice
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Also known as Arabian sorcery

sleek grove
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I call myself Dwemerborn as a joke. One day I want real Dwemer armour to be forged and cosplay as one

uncut hatch
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do you think the women dwemer have beards too?

sleek grove
proper ice
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I choose to ignore that lol, but maybe, after all I think I heard before that Nord women had beards too

uncut hatch
sleek grove
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We know they made different helmets for either sex

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It's something you can see in Skyrim. It's kinda cool

uncut hatch
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don't understand the weird face dwemer helmets have though

sleek grove
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Mostly to tell who's who if you mean gear I'd imagine

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I have a headcanon the Dwemer Statue bust is Mzark or Kagrenac

proper ice
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I believe it’s Mzark because he seems to be the more prevalent dwemer of the skyrim parts of the dwemer while kagrenac was the prevalent one of the vvardenfall one

sleek grove
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Seems to of been a big deal

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Can be deducted he was involved with the Skyrim clan as that's where his tower is. I'd bet he had something to do with the Aetherium Forge too

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He is a big deal given the inside of his tower there are busts all over the interior

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Yet we know little on him compared to some other dwarves

proper ice
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Yeah, I’d love some Mzark lore

sleek grove
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I wouldn't be surprised if he worked with Kagrenac

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Who was considered the top genius

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Just a genius with a bad gut

proper ice
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I’d say he’s a crazy genius who was working with things he didn’t fully understand

sleek grove
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We know some Dwemer diagreed with him and that it wasn't worth the risk

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The Egg of Time iirc

uncut hatch
sleek grove
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Kagrenac never prepared correctly, Dumac was slain and he acted in desperation. And well all we truely know is that choice and lack of prep caused the Dwemer to go Poof

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Although Tribunal complicates that

proper ice
sleek grove
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Yagrum?

proper ice
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Well the Tribunal had Sotha Sil who studied the heart and the tools for a while so he could have figured it out, and yeah, Yagrum

sleek grove
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Seht I like for continuing the Dwemer wkrk

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Also he gives his power to let the city live after he died

proper ice
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I like him for his intelligence and his own quirks but I am more interested in Ayem and Vivec

sleek grove
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Seht worked directly qith Dwemer in his time of the First Council right?

proper ice
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Nerevar and his advisors all did, I think

sleek grove
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Dwemer were cruel and ruthless but I feel bad for Yagrum and what happened to Dumac

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Imagine being kept in the dark only to be killed because of that choice

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Thinking about it my Dwarf in my mod is a mix of Yagrum and what we know of Dumac

plain ibex
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These things still irk me, they have the iconography of the Restoration school of magic on them, so where did they come from?

Blades_2021-07-20-19-36-03.jpg Blades_2021-07-20-19-36-12.jpg
dusky scaffold
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So does the message of the river snake

sleek grove
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I have to alter one of my stories when I return to my mod

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Wrote the wrong dates for the First Council War

uncut hatch
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oh this is lore

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i thought we were in screen shots

cosmic thistle
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is that how scrolls look in Blades?

sleek grove
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Yea, you'll get revived when you die

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I've been putting off Blades since I got my town to Castle teir

cosmic thistle
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I like the design, not the idea but I can understand why they made it

sleek grove
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Extra money, Fallout shelter 2.0

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Just have it like Arena, and randomly generated

uncut hatch
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how do i speak the words of resurrection if im dead?

plain ibex
sleek grove
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Explaination? What's that

dusky scaffold
uncut hatch
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scrolls have always confused me how they actually work

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like, when i use a ice spike scroll... what is on the scroll? is it just a piece of paper that says "ice spike"?

plain ibex
sleek grove
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In the kit it's nothing

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One word

dusky scaffold
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"How to Spike your Ice: A Beginner's Guide, with Pretty Pictures"

sleek grove
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The elder scroll text is just <cool graphic>

uncut hatch
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when i write a scroll, how difficult is it to not accidentally use the scroll? how do i explain a scroll to someone without saying the words when its a ice spike scroll?

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do i need to call it the pointy ice thing scroll?

dusky scaffold
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you're not saying "Ice Spike", you're saying an incantation that evokes the scroll

uncut hatch
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ohhhh

dusky scaffold
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Imagine every mage shouting the name of the spell they're casting

proper ice
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Huh! Cheat Spell Options!

plain ibex
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You could read the words on them in Morrowind like you were reading a note or book but since it's in some other language we can't cast Bodily Restoration on ourselves IRL and live forever.

uncut hatch
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theres silent spells and i thought that made you mute so you cant say the words of magic spells

plain ibex
sleek grove
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I have a odd question, what's a cool name for an Elder Scroll held by Dwemer Spectors and one Living? Rn I have down "Ancient Secrets" but I feel I can do better in naming

dusky scaffold
sleek grove
dusky scaffold
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"Fireball!"
"Lightning Bolt!"
"Flaaaaaa[...]aaaaaaa[...]aaaaames!" (damn concentration spells)
"Invisibility!"
"Muffle!" (wait, that defeats its purpose)

proper ice
uncut hatch
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demon tube

sleek grove
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Magic Plot Scroll 1

plain ibex
uncut hatch
sleek grove
uncut hatch
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forbidden swirly wordy

topaz dome
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I've always wanted to see a "younger scroll." 😀

sleek grove
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I'll write a list and break it down

uncut hatch
sleek grove
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It was too tempting never to use one in my own lore idea

plain ibex
sleek grove
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Collect, give it to my dwarf then they read it. I would like to make it so if you read it you get a near identical perk to the Ancient knowledge, but I can't get the script to work.

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Shows what ruin the Thalmor split faction are in

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Well not to the player lol, just story things

plain ibex
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(Onmiscience) seems too vague. Maybe something referring to them like (Dominion) or (Elves) might work.

sleek grove
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I'll defo write those down. They sound good and a bit more on point than what I originally had. On a small break rn but i'll put it in my notes

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I fell into the trap of making a big mod first but it's something I feel a connection with. Writing any Dwemer lore is really awesome as a fan of that piece of lore

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Nearly done, but still a bit to do ofc. About the closest as I'll get to actual Dwemer Lore writing

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I learn new things here on the lore I don't know fully, I like the convos that go on here

robust lintel
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Regarding Hammerfell.. do they ever have Sep's world in-game or even give that world a name? Or they haven't gotten around to that yet?

fallen panther
sleek grove
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Idk, picture cats?

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Picture anything than the universe being revealed to me

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Someone should make a mod that replaces the Scroll Graphic with a cat photo

uncut hatch
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So in blades ||when you finish the game you make this marble Griffin statue that’s holding a open elder scroll||

sleek grove
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I'd ||hate to pose for that Statue being made||

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||I'd be blind fast on how long they take irl to craft||

quartz shuttle
uncut hatch
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||I can’t post the picture of the Griffin on here cause I’m on mobile and it won’t spoil tag photos||

sleek grove
fallen panther
quartz shuttle
fallen panther
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Wth did I just watch 👀

robust lintel
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What happens when you show an Elder Scroll to a Falmer?

sleek grove
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They get read a bedtime story instead

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I'd assume nothing, as nothing to show. Unless the Scroll doesn't care and projects visions into their brain

fallen panther
robust lintel
sleek grove
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Even if the Falmer knew what an Elder Scroll was at this point or knew how one would work. They are fairly smart but they can't see what they touch. Smelling everything and hearing instead

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More hearing, they got good ears

robust lintel
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Should of wrote the Elder Scrolls in Braille.

sleek grove
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Hard to figure out their language. We have the Font like Dwemeris but the stucture even translated is alien

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Gallus wrote his diary in Falmer but he wrote it like Common/Tamreillic

robust lintel
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I would imagine they use Chaurus as their guard dogs as well

sleek grove
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In concept they were suppose to ride the big ones, aka the Reapers

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I like the bit from ESO in how they tame Chaurus'

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How that works is hold an egg to your heart before it hatches or something of that vain iirc

robust lintel
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Imagine riding a Chaurus in a cave and BUMP smash your head on a low-hanging rock cause you couldn't see to duck in time.

sleek grove
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I think in practice some dungeons wouldn't support something like that. Also a scaling issue

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Definitely cool on concept

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I don't think we'll see the Falmer for some time

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Unless ofc they added lore to say Dwemer moved some Falmer across Tamriel to Hammerfell/Western territory

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But different clan so idk for now

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I hope we see some Spectors in Dwemer ruins again. Even if they are just generic enemies.

robust lintel
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Volenfell?

sleek grove
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Yee, probably will see it as a larger dungeon in VI

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In ESO it's a Group Dungeon, which are narrow

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It's a captital dwemer city so could be cool to see in a scale sense

quartz shuttle
sleek grove
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I think Volenfell would be cool for a subtitle, although I don't see it unless something Dwemer is tied there. At this point I'm just thinking Hammerfell, some outer plane title or Redguard

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Watch me be totally wrong in prediction lol

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Volenfell would work because that's Hammerfell's Translation from Dwemeris, well a simplified version. Before it was the Deathlands or something afaik

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Volenfell technically means City of the Hammer

robust lintel
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Yes, the Volendrung

sleek grove
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King Rourken threw his mighty hammer and settled where it landed. Although I wanna know how he did it. Is Volendrung like Mjolnir where you can throw it far with advanced magic or something else

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Volendrung always seems to wander away and able to be summoned

proper ice
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Maybe he just walked to Hammerfell and dropped it where he deemed was a good spot

robust lintel
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I'm just curious how the Daedric prince came to possess it.

sleek grove
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Didn't he fight Shalidor. Idk why but i'd imagine if you are strong enough Volendrung can be one handed. Since Rourken created Spellbreaker to fight Shalidor's magic

quartz shuttle
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Or, is it just a myth?

proper ice
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That, or he has an absolutely divine arm, which if so, he needs to give Brady some help

proper ice
robust lintel
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Myths/Legends don't burn down cities

sleek grove
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I'm not sure on the timeline of things. But the whole story could be completely twisted

sleek grove
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Tbf for all we know Clan Rourken just walked west to the place that wasn't fully established

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And someone made a tale

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Hell maybe the Clan made the tale. They traded supplies with settlers of the region iirc

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Make the Dwemer seem more mighty

robust lintel
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Have the Dwemer made any myths before?

sleek grove
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I'm not sure, they defo have a ego problem

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Radac in Morrowind's Tribunal ia the most egotistical Dwarf we've seen when you speak to him further and further. Repeat a question and it's an insult

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Yagrum Bagarn I see as a softy given everything he's been through

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Would not surprise me if they invented myths themselves

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Radac is a spector, fancy ghost word, and was a soldier, still knows enchanting to enchant Trueflame

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Who wouldn't have an ego tho if you can create life and manipulate reality with a few switch flips and button presses

robust lintel
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Rightly so

sleek grove
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I think to a Dwarf you get it the first time or they get angry

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Dwemer ego also extends to them seeing themselves as equals to the gods. They did dance around Oblivion afaik. Metaphorically ofc

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They believed in gods in the sense they existed, but no reason for them to worship them when they can do so much on their own

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I need a life lol froge

balmy salmon
sleek grove
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Maybe, but the Dwemer didn't read them themselves either

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Had Lexicons to transcribe the information into data that won't hurt you

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It's very possible the sight could have been more than toxic fungi

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In Calcemo's Dwemer Tablet it talks about the 15 tones or something. Even Knight Gelebor of the Snow Elves suggests more was at play

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Would explain how they devolved so quickly

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Also soul stealing. Well that's a theory anyway. Falmer have basic creature souls instead of Black Souls, however Knight Gelebor does have one

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Although I suppose it could be argued that BGS in the Kit list Falmer as creatures to why the souls are like that

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The Dynamo Cores are most likely huge Soul canisters for Animunculi power

upper inlet
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Anyone else realize that Dragons are in fact lesser Aedra.

sleek grove
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Dragons are out my zone 😅 but I'm interested

upper inlet
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Also they never die. Only their anchors to nirn (their bodies) die.

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They can be spoken back into existence which is how Alduin brings them back.

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They were made by Akatosh which would would make them the only Aedra left physically within nirn.

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Just needed to get that out of my head. Was ruminating on this when thinking about Aedra and Daedra

pastel sorrel
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@upper inlet they're not the only aedric beings still present

upper inlet
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Physically yes

pastel sorrel
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there's still Ehlnofey present, too

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Tucked away, but still alive

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Or as alive as the sapient laws of the Mundus's physics can be considered

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Spriggans might be aedric spirits as well

brave shoal
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i think i read somewhere dwemer automaton dont use soul in their soul gem because it deemed below them/not efficient? think read that in a quest or in a book in eso

upper inlet
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They're alive like Akatosh is but they're outside of things.

sleek grove
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The Souls you find on Spiders and Spheres are empty right? Or are they full. I actually can't remember lol

upper inlet
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Perhaps vast quantities if magicka?

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Empty

sleek grove
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It wouldn't explain the Falmer having weaker souls

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Fungi wouldn't do that

upper inlet
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Devolution?

sleek grove
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Also how devolved they are, it seema to fast

upper inlet
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It has been thousands of years

pastel sorrel
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It's been a long time since the Falmer were wiped

sleek grove
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True but it'd been only a few hundred by the time of the War of Krag

upper inlet
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Like 3 eras

sleek grove
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3750 years by Skyrim

upper inlet
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Yup

pastel sorrel
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We haven't seen the Falmer until 3 millennia afterwards

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they've had a long time to devolve into what we see now

sleek grove
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Almost yea, 2802 years by ESO

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But they had an entire war with the Dwemer in Blackreach as Falmer

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Add the Dwemer Tablet and it seems they had a push to what they are

pastel sorrel
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as they are now or just as blind, maybe semi-feral elves who've had multiple centuries to adapt to their new existence?

sleek grove
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Afaik we don't actually know, it's something that was documented after iirc

pastel sorrel
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Doesn't mean they were as devolved as they are now, but that's still a long time to change one's nature

sleek grove
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They are still intelegent for sure. They picked off tactically survivors using the Skyrim-Morrowind Tunnel to escape Morrowind during the Red Year

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The survivors were being stalked by White Elves

upper inlet
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They've basically devolved into a primitive state much like goblins

pastel sorrel
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they returned to monke

sleek grove
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Gelebor himself holds hope they find Auri-El again

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Also suggests more than shrooms were at play. All speculation but I don't think we'll ever get a answer

brave shoal
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auri-el would make falmer return to snow elf status?

sleek grove
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I think he meant they can find redemption

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They kidnap and enslave people at night, pretty twisted rn

pastel sorrel
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i don't know, the last time monke dealt with the Time God we had a 1008-year dragon break

brave shoal
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i mean, they got twisted into that state by evil dwemers

upper inlet
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Lol

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Speaking of elves, it's funny to think that Khajit are elves

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So are humans technically. Some lore is silly

brave shoal
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one day, even imperial will be revealed as elves and the nord will sigh in their frozen corner /s

upper inlet
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The races of men descend from Lorkhan, an Elhnofay so kind of.

brave shoal
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wonder how explaining that to a nord would go. i guess a broken nose and a nord cussing at me

upper inlet
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🤣

pastel sorrel
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Some like to separate them, but logically speaking and as is even mentioned in-universe if off-handedly, men and mer are both humans. They're basically just different subspecies.

upper inlet
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Yup

sleek grove
brave shoal
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so, if everything is nearly a sort of elf. only argonian are free from the curse of pointy ears? 🤔

upper inlet
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Yes

pastel sorrel
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Argonians are basically just uplifted lizards

upper inlet
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They're not related to men or mer

brave shoal
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still better than being an elf -a nord

upper inlet
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They're made by Sithis directly

sleek grove
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Argonians, the Hist's masterpeice

upper inlet
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And the hist

sleek grove
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The Hist should make a bunch of new races

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Make a cult for it

pastel sorrel
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Hist saw the Useful Lizards and were like "let's make it vertical so it gets on with the weird bipeds running around outside the marshes".

sleek grove
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Hist Trees are mad they lost control over Tamriel

brave shoal
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and then those weird biped enslaved the lizards 😔

pastel sorrel
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Hist mad

sleek grove
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So they make Scaley Bois

upper inlet
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A game set in black marsh would be epic

brave shoal
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from what little i know, argonian kinda got mad during the oblivion crisis and needed no help. wonder why they get beaten by dark elf and enslaved if they can make hell retreat

sleek grove
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Hot swamp with lots of extra swamp

upper inlet
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They're very peaceful traditionally

sleek grove
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I do like how Dagon retreated from the province

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Dagon was outta there

upper inlet
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He was f that place is worse than Oblivion

sleek grove
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If you beat Dagon manually he melts for some reason

upper inlet
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Black Marsh: worse the literally hell. 😆

sleek grove
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In the Crisis didn't a House of Morrowind revive that Emperor Mudcrab?

upper inlet
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Never heard about that

sleek grove
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Probably some MK work I'm thinking of then

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I see fragments, I hear things but never can remember much of it after

upper inlet
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Same

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Like how technically orcs and dark elves are the same race

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They both used to be chimer

sleek grove
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We never knew what the Orcs were before the Curse right?

upper inlet
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So we're khajit

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Chimer

proper ice
sleek grove
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Interesting

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I only know the Dwemer were considered a house of the Chimer once. Well ex dev interviews iirc

upper inlet
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The ones the left azura

proper ice
upper inlet
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Correction

proper ice
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Hmm?

upper inlet
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Orcs who are descended from trinimac were aedroth

proper ice
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Wat, the orsimer race aren’t aedra

upper inlet
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Aedroth*

sleek grove
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Wasn't a record of the first view of Elsweyr seen with Khajiit running and throwing spears?

upper inlet
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A kind of Et'Ada

proper ice
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Aedroth are singular aedra, like how daedroths are singular daedra(not counting the one called that)

sleek grove
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Trinimac was a demigod, his followers just got sucked into him transforming. Well idk the specifics

proper ice
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He was not a demigod, he was a full on Aedra

sleek grove
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I c. Wasn't he the one to have said to have cut Lorkhan's heart out

upper inlet
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Trinimac was Aedroth his followers Chimer

sleek grove
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Doesn't Malacath not like talking about what exactly happened to him

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How does god eating work

upper inlet
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Chimer were split into 3,

Orsimer
Summer
And Khajitt

#

Khajit were blessed by azura
Dunmer by bioethics
And orsimer by malacath

#

Blessed in the sense that their attributes were forever changed by these daedra

brave shoal
#

orc got uglier, but if you tell them that, they got stronger too and got a short temper so....they're fine....please don't hit me mister orc

proper ice
#

Fandom has a reputation for wrong stuff

sleek grove
#

Who the better smith? Nordman or Orcman?

upper inlet
#

Depends

sleek grove
#

Trick question it's the lost Dwemerman

#

But for real I'd like to know which race comes after my bad joke

proper ice
#

Orc but dwemer were the best period

upper inlet
#

Yup

sleek grove
#

Good to know

#

I want to learn more than just the Dwemer bubble and I always compare smithing skills

#

Idk why i do lol

#

My tier list is; Dwemer, then Orc, then Nord. Nord idk much on they brag a bit sometimes depending on the smith in skyrim

#

I'd tier Clockwork but at the same time they aren't a race

upper inlet
#

Atmora was said to be more advanced than any modern tes city but who knows it all got frozen

#

So we'll never know for sure just how good Nords were at forging

#

Darn Ice demons

proper ice
# upper inlet

Oh also, it doesn’t say the Orsimer are chimer here, it just mentions the Chimer’s exodus

#

Atmora… dat place is Siberia on steroids lol

upper inlet
#

The chimer who followed trinimac were transformed by malacath when boerhia consumed trinimac

brave shoal
#

remind me, i should get clockwork city just to get dwemer copypasta to get my dwarf fix in eso

proper ice
#

The Chimer were just Aldmer who were leaving Aldmeris

upper inlet
#

Technically all elves are Aldmer

#

They're all from Aldmeris and slowly began changing

#

As they left.

brave shoal
#

so the dominion is right in trying to conquer the world? 😛

sleek grove
#

The Falmer stayed the same as what Modern Day Altmer appear as

#

Well before the Atmorans and wars

upper inlet
#

Yup

#

It all goes back to Auri El and Padomay

sleek grove
#

Just pale and have white hair. Also big veins appearing

#

Going off Gelebor and his not easy to spell brothers name

upper inlet
#

Lol

sleek grove
#

I say Gelebor as Jellybore idk why lol

upper inlet
#

😂

#

I knew what my next mod will be

sleek grove
#

I think it's pronounced Gelle Bore but I like how I say it

upper inlet
#

Jellybore!

sleek grove
#

I also can't spell Paladin, autocorrect helped me so I just title him as Knight

#

His actual title is Knight-Paladin iirc

upper inlet
#

Elves are descendant of the light, and humans of the dark

#

Elves trace their lines to Auri El, humans to Lorkhan and thus to Sithis.

sleek grove
#

Jellyman still worships Auri-El

upper inlet
#

Yup

sleek grove
#

Why he still believes the Twisted Ones can be redeemed

#

They just need to one day find Auri-El again

upper inlet
#

Didn't we kill him?

#

Champion of Kvatch saw to the

#

That*

sleek grove
#

Idk how he stays positive. I mean for 2000 years the remaining pure Snow Elves lived in the Forgotten Vale peacefully away from the Nords, that was until the Twisted Falmer invaded

#

Gelebor was in Dawnguard

#

His brother is a vamp

upper inlet
#

No I meant Auri El lol

sleek grove
#

Ohhh lol. I'm not sure

#

I know the avatar of Akatosh appeared

upper inlet
#

That's the main antagonist in the knights of the nine dlc in Oblivion

pastel sorrel
pastel sorrel
sleek grove
#

Oh him, i'm pretter sure he was Aylied

upper inlet
#

Ah right

sleek grove
#

Pelenial's old foe

upper inlet
#

Nvm lol

pastel sorrel
#

Umaril the Unfeathered, Ayleid demigod champion of Meridia who fought Pelinal

upper inlet
#

Darn elfs and their names

sleek grove
#

But yea, Gelebor is positive even though the Twisted ones invaded the Vale and killed a majority of the last full Snow Elves

#

That mer has heart

pastel sorrel
#

i mean you kinda gotta have heart to last for 3000 years holed up in a chantry

upper inlet
sleek grove
#

His brother turned the Twisted ones to his side even after the invasion of the Vale

#

Complicated family that one

upper inlet
#

Lorkhan being the human God of creation and son of sithis

pastel sorrel
#

their grudge with the Dunmer is entirely separate to their grudge with the Altmer, besides them both being mer

upper inlet
#

Was referring to your comment on the human origins

#

It's connected

pastel sorrel
#

the Dunmer are more on Lorkhan's side if anything, they just have other beef with the Nords

upper inlet
#

The dunmer stole the heart of lorkhan from the nords preventing the resurrection of their dead god.

#

The tribunal saw to that

#

This was after trinimac launched his heart into red mountain

stark socket
#

*into the ocean

#

and wasn't it tied to Auriel's Bow in the myth?

upper inlet
#

Yes

#

Trinimac was serving under auri el at the time

sleek grove
#

Trinimac tried to destroy the heart but it laughed, or Lorkhan did

pastel sorrel
sleek grove
#

The bow fired it although scale of tbe weapon might of been larger

pastel sorrel
#

the Nordic myths are from their own point of view, and they're not exactly unbiased themselves

upper inlet
#

I mean when you're entire people are slaughtered in under trust you tend to hold grudges

pastel sorrel
#

And for that matter, the Dunmer don't care if Lorkhan comes back or not, they care about what they can learn from him, or at least they care what their masters teach them which tends to include what Lorkhan was probably getting at.

sleek grove
#

Kagrenac was a dummy, playing with Fire even though he was playing about with probabilities

stark socket
#

Well they already know that Lorkhan comes back. "AE HERMA MORA ..." etc. 😉

sleek grove
upper inlet
#

I just had a realization

#

The "All-father" the Skaal worship

#

Has got to be Lorkhan.

stark socket
#

Nah

#

Don't be too eager with your god-logic there ...

pastel sorrel
#

But also again, irrelevant to the Nordic grudge with the Altmer. Consider for a moment what Sithis even is in the Altmeri theology: a sum of limitations, all the things Anuiel was not, thus the means he could self-refract into many other things at once. Consider the Altmeri focus on Good, Praxic Behaviour™️ as they see set down by the gods. To call Lorkhan and men spawn of Sithis, what they're really basically saying (whether they consciously realize it or not) is Lorkhan and men are what the mer wouldn't personally do, because they're not praxic.

#

the claim Lorkhan is the son of Sithis is a demonization

pastel sorrel
upper inlet
#

Sithis or Padomay or Psijii is change

#

Much like lorkhan brought change to the elhnofay

pastel sorrel
#

A land of a powerful earth-based force seeking preservation of the land in spitting distance of Lorkhan's heart?

#

worshipped by Nordic cousins, whom would come from a theology where Shor is the top dog to begin with?

upper inlet
#

It makes sense that Nords holding to the old ways would worship lorkhan

sleek grove
#

Speaking of the Skaal was Mirrak's connections to Solstiem a afterthought or? Well what I mean is the alter in the middle of Solstiem has no Temple around it in Bloodmoon

pastel sorrel
#

There was no Miraak in TES3

#

nor any Vahlok

upper inlet
#

He wasn't alive yet. Right?

sleek grove
#

I know in the game but the whole Mirrak created the island in a battle and he has a grip on the place

pastel sorrel
#

he wasn't even a thing yet in the lore, at least as was released to the public.

#

we didn't hear anything about Miraak and co until Dragonborn.

upper inlet
#

Could be a Dragon break situation

pastel sorrel
#

... why would it be dragon break

#

the lore is ever-evolving, not everything's written down yet

sleek grove
#

Mirrak let his power get to his head

pastel sorrel
#

the Tribunal weren't even a thing until TES3

sleek grove
#

He could of stopped Alduin

pastel sorrel
#

the AoK wasn't a thing until TES4

sleek grove
#

But he said no to the champions who defeated him by sending him fkrward in time

upper inlet
#

True and his temple was being excavated actively which would only make sense as to why it was not seen if it was buried

pastel sorrel
#

Actually no yeah, that's right, Tribunal was PGE1, but only barely. They were originally going to be a Summerset thing and that's where TES3 was gonna take place

sleek grove
#

In very early designs yeah

#

Redguard was the start of the Dwemer modern lore

#

Then Morrowind was a huge lore dump on them

#

Dwemer were used prior as in Numidium and Fang Lair but other than they were gone and were called Dwarves not much afaik

pastel sorrel
#

also don't forget Battlespire, unsung hero of Daedric lore

sleek grove
#

True

balmy salmon
#

I like to think that Kagrenac succeeded in what he set out to do, but was undone by one little detail: If you turn your entire race into a god, there will be nobody left to install the heart into said god.

pastel sorrel
sleek grove
#

If you follow the Skin theory then he did what he wanted

#

Kagrenac was also said to have used the Calling when he triggered the Heart

pastel sorrel
#

Why it seemingly failed is entirely unknown, but i doubt it was a complete failure.

sleek grove
#

Which we know how the calling works now

pastel sorrel
#

the issue's just keeping the Numidium intact long enough to do anything

#

everyone keeps breaking it

balmy salmon
#

I don't think the Heart was ever installed in Numidium, because it never came to life. It only ever was brought to life when Tiber Septim got a lesser imitation of the Heart.

stark socket
#

"Nchzrunchlbilzhar! Pass me a hydro-spanner!" - Kagrenac

sleek grove
#

Kagrenac made a quick desprate move, it was almost over for them

pastel sorrel
#

No, it was activated @balmy salmon

#

Red Moment

#

Battle for Red Mountain was in a whole-ass dragon break, that's why the accounts vary so much.

sleek grove
#

Dumac fell and well Kagrenac took a moment of power and desperation

#

Used the Calling and here they are gone

pastel sorrel
#

Same reason the Warp in The West then happened in TES2

sleek grove
#

Anumidium rejects time like a newborn with god powers and time reshapes

balmy salmon
#

The Heart wasn't Brass Tower's stone, even if it was intended to be. It was Red Tower's stone.

pastel sorrel
#

There's nothing saying it couldn't be used for both.

#

Every other tower beyond Red and Adamantine were artificial, their Stones artificially linked to them.

#

no reason the Heart couldn't be used to make another Tower too.

sleek grove
#

The Brass Tower is just name for the artificial tower. Imagine what they'd call Akulakhan since it was made of Stone

#

The Stone Tower of Dagoth Ur

#

Dagoth Ur is your new god VaultEvil

balmy salmon
#

They did make a tower. But it was never activated. Heck, I'd argue that Numidium wasn't even finished until Kagrenac vanished their race.

pastel sorrel
#

... again, it was activated. It just didn't do much

sleek grove
#

It seemed to be finished in Daggerfall

#

I don't think the Tribunal would know how to use it fully

pastel sorrel
#

it caused Red Moment and then didn't accomplish anything else

sleek grove
#

It woke up, went bye bye and fell back to sleep

balmy salmon
#

Any source on that? The Heart doesn't need Numidium to cause a Dragon Break.

pastel sorrel
#

That's a loaded question. When did anyone say it was the Heart doing it?

#

it's the Numidium itself breaking time, it does it again in TES2 without the Heart present at all.

sleek grove
#

By design it's a new god. It's a god by design. Just one with a bad temper

balmy salmon
#

The Numidium is nothing more than a lifeless golem without a power source. That's why Tiber Septim needed the Mantella, which was a substitute for the Heart of Lorkhan, to give it life.

sleek grove
#

I don't think Kagrenac had any tests with it, to the point where he knows what faults it has

pastel sorrel
#

To power it, yes. Nobody was arguing otherwise.

#

I'm not sure what point you're trying to get at or think anyone else was making.

sleek grove
#

I just ramble but the power source doesn't matter to me

stark socket
pastel sorrel
#

The Numidium was designed with the Heart of Lorkhan as its power source. The Mantella is a ghetto stand-in. It's just the battery pack to power it.

#

also yeah, Kagrenac absolutely had a decent idea of what he was dealing with. These are Dwemer we're talking about.

sleek grove
#

It's like changing from a really good battery to a lesser one

#

The Power source was designed for the heart but beside that the Anumidium was to be something new, a god worthy of Dwemer worship

upper inlet
#

Like going from duracell to some off brand

pastel sorrel
#

They made refined sciences of their work. The fact Kagrenac his his tool at all goes to show their focus on research.

sleek grove
#

Even then the probability was unpredictable

brave shoal
#

find it weird that dwemer always laugh at other for worshiping gods and stuff but then decided,hey why not create a god of our own to worship? find it confusing

pastel sorrel
#

What happened with activation at Red Mountain was ostensibly not according to plan, but it doesn't mean it was for lack of trying.

sleek grove
#

Kagrenac was mad is all I'll say from my opinion

balmy salmon
#

My point is that Numidium never became what the Dwemer intended it to be, not because Kagrenac's theories and theorems were wrong, but because he panicked and didn't think things through in a moment of urgency.

brave shoal
#

i think them being sieged out didnt help with being carefull in the activation sequence maybe? i think he had to rush his timetable?

stark socket
pastel sorrel
# brave shoal find it weird that dwemer always laugh at other for worshiping gods and stuff bu...

It's not confusing at all, they just didn't consider those other spirits as gods. They were religious just fine, but they were also much like their Altmeri cousins in pining for a return to divinity; where they differ is they saw no divinity but what they themselves would make of themselves, because to accept any other god would be to accept inferiority and the nature of their non-divine existence, and that was unfashionable.

sleek grove
#

The way I picture it is Dumac fell, Kagrenac had seconds to think so he took his tools to the heart and then poof

#

No time to think, just act

balmy salmon
#

That's what I think.

upper inlet
#

That would be the most logical outcome

brave shoal
#

i always thought dwemer to be atheist, all about science and understanding the universe and not relying on gods and prayers to make things work

sleek grove
#

Although now we know how The Calling operated through gear in ESO he must of had a master transmitter

pastel sorrel
#

They weren't atheist, they just didn't think the ones we consider gods to be worthy of calling gods.

upper inlet
#

They wanted to be the gods not worship them

sleek grove
#

They believed in the gods, they didn't think they should worship entities thag they can challenge

stark socket
pastel sorrel
#

and at the end of the day, godhood is subjective. There's no intrinsic quality to a god, just a series of qualities as an immortal being which is the de facto standard of the Aurbis since mortals are a later creation that go against the grain of the natural order.

sleek grove
pastel sorrel
#

Some beings might have a greater vantage point than others, or a greater sphere of influence, but it's all just lesser and greater spirits relative to one another.

upper inlet
pastel sorrel
#

one is a god to those who consider them a god.

balmy salmon
#

I also hypothesize that Alduin's world-eating, or specifically his soul-devouring, is in some ways similar to the process by which the Dwemer disappeared.
The profane being regressed into the divine.

sleek grove
#

Dwemer invented some things people use today on Tamriel. A Dwarf supposedly created the first Lock and it was expensive till knock-offs came about to lower prices

#

They were uptight but they'd trade and talk if they had to

pastel sorrel
#

they even did dealings with the daedra and whatnot

sleek grove
#

Yea

upper inlet
pastel sorrel
#

and had varying relations. Malacath for instance is an explicit enemy of theirs.

brave shoal
#

among all theory i saw, i prefer the time warp one where dwemer just vanished later into the future, to return only if needed/if the universe have a prophecy about us lesser civilization need to be stomped by steam powered automaton^^'

pastel sorrel
#

Which then makes things weird with stuff like "Dumac Dwarf-Orc"

sleek grove
#

Or Dumalacath

upper inlet
stark socket
pastel sorrel
#

it was probably then bitter vengeance that Malacath took ahold of Volendrung after their disappearance though

sleek grove
#

Could be but then why didn't Peyrite get a nickname thrown in

#

They hold Spellbreaker

pastel sorrel
#

... because that's much later

#

Peryite got it from Zaan the Scalecaller, who'd acquired it

sleek grove
#

Ah I forgot about him lol

pastel sorrel
#

her

sleek grove
pastel sorrel
sleek grove
#

I'm just rolling with my Volendrung is like a Mjolnir thing where it can be summoned if deemed worthy

pastel sorrel
#

never realized her concept art shows her face

sleek grove
#

Volendrung likes to vanish and reappear

balmy salmon
sleek grove
pastel sorrel
sleek grove
#

Sheogorath threw it into Cyrodiil in ESO right?

#

Or was it a copy?

upper inlet
pastel sorrel
# sleek grove Or was it a copy?

no, it was the real thing. He likes stealing other Princes' toys and throwing them in for mortals to fight over so he can kick back and watch the mess

sleek grove
#

I had a weird headcanon that if the leader of Clan Rourken was to return he could summon his hammer

upper inlet
#

Sheo maybe the only Daedric prince who currently is not an original Daedra

sleek grove
#

Jyggalag was the original but now both co-exist

pastel sorrel
#

you forget Meridia

upper inlet
#

Not after Oblivion

pastel sorrel
#

and possibly Molag Bal

upper inlet
#

You mean stonefire

pastel sorrel
# upper inlet Not after Oblivion

... explicitly after TES4, literally the whole point of the SI line was to shear Jyggy off permanently so he and Sheo could both exist

#

We become Sheogorath so he has no Sheogorath to return to, and defeat him to break the cycle entirely.

sleek grove
#

Jyggalag predated Mundus right? Or don't we know. He doesn't seem to care about Mortals just his Order

#

The one prince I like to be well read on

upper inlet
#

Exactly which is what I meant by not an original daedra

pastel sorrel
#

Jyggalag's timeframe is unknown

sleek grove
#

Order and Chaos are in flux

upper inlet
#

All daedra predate nundus

pastel sorrel
#

Not true

#

see: Malacath, another non-original

upper inlet
#

They're elnofay

pastel sorrel
#

as are the daedra.

sleek grove
#

Jyggalag expanded his empire every era. That's a threat that the other princes hated. That's the rundown of what we know really

upper inlet
#

Aren't they?

pastel sorrel
#

wait, though you said et'Ada

upper inlet
#

Et Ada are the ones that that stayed are they not?

#

Or am I confusing the names again

pastel sorrel
#

Ehlnofey are the Earthbones and direct mortal ancestors. Technically all the aedra could be seen as such due to their roles, but i'd say he's closer to them than the Ehlnofey

sleek grove
#

BGS have left hints Jygg is still around, but again I don't think Nirn has much for him yet

pastel sorrel
#

the et'Ada are the Original Spirits, the ones that've been around since the beginnings of the Aurbis

upper inlet
#

Aedra and daedra just means a ancestors and not our ancestors

pastel sorrel
#

Akatosh, etc.

sleek grove
#

I'd imagine Jyggy is chilling in his new realm of perfect order on the beach drinking beverages

pastel sorrel
#

And it's pretty much "anyone from the Dawn" in effect because of the temporal derpness of that time

sleek grove
pastel sorrel
#

regarding aedra and daedra, de facto the terms are just "those who took part in the Mundus's creation" and "those who didn't + those who did but associate with those who didn't" respectively

#

thus handling Meridia and Malacath for instance

#

different cultures will apply different meanings to the terms, but that's why you have to come down to a de facto usage that covers all the use cases

upper inlet
#

Yeah Meridia is one of those don't really feel like a daedr types

#

They to pure

pastel sorrel
#

Meridia fits in just fine with the daedra, she's almost as bad as Molag Bal, just not as overtly destructure

#

just look at the Purified.

upper inlet
#

She is?

sleek grove
#

Were all the Aedra on board fully during the whole event?

upper inlet
#

No

pastel sorrel
#

Darien, a literal extension of Meridia, even gains the awareness to recognize that Meridia's bad news

upper inlet
#

Most were tricked

sleek grove
#

I heard once Mara jumped on later on. This is in deeper water for me so

pastel sorrel
#

her goals align with ours more often than others, but she's still firmly in it for her own reasons, and she has no problem Purifying servants and enemies alike to make them her Lustrants, stripped of all free will for eternity

#

which is only better than the Soul Shriven because at least the Lustrants aren't left with the faculties to take issue with their situation

#

Plus, reminder, Umaril was her champion. She backed the Ayleids.

balmy salmon
#

I'd hesitate to call almost any Daedra Prince "almost as bad as Molag Bal" because he's spent thousands of years setting that bar as high as possible.

upper inlet
#

Yeah she's closer to a jyggalag in that regard

pastel sorrel
#

and some seem to've since come around. Or new aspects have formed that don't hold the grudge of their forebears and oversouls.

sleek grove
#

I know Magnus jumped off very quick

pastel sorrel
#

see: Akatosh versus Auriel.

sleek grove
#

Also they called Magnus the dead god

upper inlet
#

Yeah magnus ptfo asap

sleek grove
#

Idk if he suceeded or if he really is dead

pastel sorrel
#

hell, Talos is three Lorkhans in a trenchcoat and Dragonborn to boot, he represents Lorkhan and Akatosh finally working together again.

sleek grove
#

He made a massive hole tho so he did somethinf

pastel sorrel
#

even back with Alessia the two were working together.

#

Magnus is firmly alive, he's one of the ones that got out before the Mundus could ensnare them.

upper inlet
#

Yeah lorkhan an akatosh are like a buddy cop movie

#

The Yugi to seto kaiba

#

The goku and vegeta

sleek grove
pastel sorrel
#

this kalpa seems to be the one where the brothers Time and Space finally get their heads together and stop the eternal cycle of fighting.

sleek grove
#

A Kalpa reset would be a cool way imo for a reboot one day

pastel sorrel
#

Convention is just the end of the last kalpa as much the start of this one, they keep ending up fighting the same battle normally.

pastel sorrel
#

Shalidor and Rourken were both nations, for one, hence the Rourken-Shalidor war mentioned in Spellbreaker's TES1 description

upper inlet
#

Then we have redgards we don't know who tf they're related to as they come from a different reality. A different kalpa

sleek grove
#

I know Yagrum Bagarn had the Staff in his Artifact book of all the tools he knew of

pastel sorrel
upper inlet
#

Yup

pastel sorrel
#

they're both remnants.

upper inlet
#

This why their homes are gone

sleek grove
#

The Dwemer were advanced even for when the Chimer arrived. If they never vanished i'd imagine they'd be on the Clockwork City level of advancements

#

More Advanced AI and more complex machinery

#

But we'll never truely know because Kagrenac did a oopsie

upper inlet
#

I mean they created an artificial God it's hard to top that

sleek grove
#

Pretty much for that, creating a full new god is a feat

upper inlet
#

It'd be funny if it was a fly that caused to the error that yeeted them out of existence

sleek grove
#

I've said it many times online and around but I have to ask. Was Dumac really in the dark about the Numidium?

upper inlet
#

Probably

sleek grove
#

That must really hurt because it cost him his life

#

Idk who killed him tho

#

Probably Nerevar

upper inlet
#

Doubt he would be all jolly about having his entire race blinked out of reality save for if fat guy in a spider mech

sleek grove
#

And the dead

#

They stayed, but all living on the Nirn plane in Mundus were taken

#

Anything outside were not

#

Even the Calling has limits it seems. Like bad Mobile phone reception lol

pastel sorrel
#

Dumac did seem to be in the dark. Kagrenac didn't represent all of the Dwemer, his was a specific group

sleek grove
pastel sorrel
#

Yagrum forgot to pay his phone bill, smh

sleek grove
upper inlet
#

Wonder if lorkhan will ever put himself back together. We know we've played and encountered aspects of him

pastel sorrel
#

c0da

sleek grove
#

He has a throne in Sovngarde so that's life complete to me

pastel sorrel
#

I'd say he has already, with Talos.

sleek grove
#

Isn't Talos attached to his spot

pastel sorrel
#

mf just casually reforms in plain sight under a new identity like the trickster god he is

upper inlet
#

Yeah but that's like a fragment of him

#

The dragon born is another

sleek grove
pastel sorrel
upper inlet
#

Nerevars one too right?

pastel sorrel
#

he may not be Lorkhan the Space God in that state, but he's at least Talos holding the center that cannot hold.

pastel sorrel
sleek grove
#

Talos the god with 3 heads. He's a Hydra, only logical conclusion

upper inlet
#

Motivation to see the tribunal dead

pastel sorrel
#

there's nothing suggesting the LDB's one either other than just a potential mechanics oversight with the throne in Sovngarde

pastel sorrel
upper inlet
#

That's subjective

#

One of those things that's up to us

pastel sorrel
#

if you mean the Nerevarine, it's not established that they're even truly Nerevar incarnate, and even if they are, you're there to stop Dagoth Ur. The Tribunal losing their powers is collateral.

upper inlet
#

Yeah that's what I meant

pastel sorrel
#

Vivec sends you in to stop Dagoth Ur fully knowing and admitting that it'll end the Tribunal's divinity too.

sleek grove
#

Nerevar said no and The three Tribunal members said yes. Well Voryn Dagoth went mad first because they left him with the tools while they decided logic

#

Who knew the god heart would steal mortal hearts

pastel sorrel
#

and in any case, the Good Daedra and basically every Ashlander are also shards of Lorkhan by that argument because they too wanted the Tribunal gone.

upper inlet
#

Fair enough

#

Still would be awesome to see lorkhan complete again

pastel sorrel
#

Shor was originally going to appear in TES5 but they cut him

#

one of the devs didn't like the idea of a god showing up. Which is kind of dumb because literally Tsun is right there in front of the hall.

#

plus, you know, gestures at all the Daedric princes

upper inlet
#

Tsuns powerful but not Shor powerful

pastel sorrel
#

No, but he's still up there with him

#

that's literally the Nordic Zenithar standing there, and one of Shor's right-hand men

upper inlet
#

Alduin would be hard pressed to try to his shtick with shor around

#

He'd get clapped mighty quick

sleek grove
#

BGS have cool ideas then think about the mysteries and what higher ups allow

pastel sorrel
#

not to mention all the times we've seen the gods show up in previous and following games

upper inlet
#

Literally akatosh in the flesh

#

Oh and sheogorath. Who is on location so they had 0 logic

pastel sorrel
#

plus mortal avatars of Mara, Zenithar and Talos in TES3 alone

#

Talos's even being an actual part of the MQ, albeit one easy to miss.

sleek grove
#

In a old man form right?

pastel sorrel
#

Wulf, yeah

sleek grove
#

Gives you a lucky coin then later you are told that might of been Talos

pastel sorrel
#

comes up and basically lays it out that the Empire's dying out, and probably for the better so new things can come up. Old dog can't learn new tricks as he says.

upper inlet
#

Always the agent of change

sleek grove
#

I can't imagine he'd be happy that the Thalmor are a full superpower again

upper inlet
#

It's funny how whenever a great change is happening you can count on talos/shor/lorkhan popping up

pastel sorrel
#

tfw we never got that scrapped TES5 idea involving Auriel sniping Talos right out of Aetherius which then caused depictions of the Red Diamond to distort and attempts to paint it failed

sleek grove
#

If no gods get involved with the Thalmor crisis i'll be shocked

pastel sorrel
sleek grove
#

Well maybe not the bigger ones, Talos was a man and has been doing things more recently

upper inlet
#

One would think talos would be pissed

pastel sorrel
#

Space changes, Time maintains.

sleek grove
#

Akatosh finished off Dagon but it was an avatar

#

Martin was the host

upper inlet
#

They're all though

pastel sorrel
#

Might be interesting to see if Auriel actually shows up in opposition to Akatosh

upper inlet
#

They can't physically appear

#

Only daedra can and only under certain circumstances

pastel sorrel
#

aedra just have no real reason to, not because they can't

#

Nirn already is a body for a lot of them

sleek grove
#

Take a basic form, usually what they do. Well unless you count Mora then he appears as a horrfying monster

upper inlet
#

Mora is special that way

pastel sorrel
#

after all, what is Kyne but the very wind you're trying to hear her in?

upper inlet
#

The cthulu of nirn

pastel sorrel
#

what is Dibella but the very beauty you're searching for her in?

sleek grove
pastel sorrel
#

Mora appears how he naturally appears, he doesn't actually really care about appearances that much

upper inlet
#

What is dibella but that 2 septim tavern wench at 2am 🤣

pastel sorrel
#

if you can't handle him at his spookiest, you can't handle him period. You either do the deal with him or you don't waste his time

#

he's there for knowledge, not to be comfortable to deal with

upper inlet
#

Yeah, molag bal is another odd one

#

Meridia calls him Stonefire

pastel sorrel
#

he even outright says he doesn't care about his followers and questions why he should ever care

sleek grove
#

Jyggalag is just Crystal boi

pastel sorrel
sleek grove
pastel sorrel
#

Maybe his original name was Bal Molag

#

Or, it's a poetic rendition; Molag Bal / Fire Stone is the literal translation, but the intention is Stonefire

sleek grove
#

Idk but he did horrific things

upper inlet
#

Didn't he plow vivec?

pastel sorrel
#

much like Odahviing is literally translated as "Snow-Hunter-Wing", but Esbern translates it as "Winged Snow Hunter".

sleek grove
#

Hammerfell is a Volenfell translation but not a direct one

#

Volenfell gave Hammerfell it's name but the word Volenfell means City of the Hammer

#

Can't call a province that

pastel sorrel
#

laughs in renaming a whole province to Alinor

sleek grove
#

I always forget they did that

#

I still call it Summerset tho lol froge

pastel sorrel
#

Officially it's Alinor, but in-universe plenty still call it Summerset

#

also laughs in New York

sleek grove
#

I think if I ever cover lore I want to nail the correct terms once or twice then butcher the pronunciations

pastel sorrel
#

laughs in CHIM

sleek grove
#

So if I spoke about Falmer i'd name Gelebor, Jellybore ofc

pastel sorrel
#

Paarthurnax will be Partysnacks in short order

sleek grove
#

Jyggalag to Jyggy boi

pastel sorrel
#

just constant flanderization as you go

#

Jyggalag to Juggalo, or Gigalo

sleek grove
#

Sheogorath to Madhatter

pastel sorrel
#

If you want a real throwback, pronounce Direnni like TESA: Redguard did

#

"direenee"

sleek grove
#

The Redguard VA work froge

golden sierra
brave shoal
pastel sorrel
plain ibex
plain ibex
dusky scaffold
#

Who washes his pugs?

plain ibex
#

He and his knights of Order were pretty strong honestly, at least stronger than Umaril.

imgID76058186.jpg.gallery.jpg
sleek grove
quartz shuttle
dense glacier
#

Is the Sheogorath we see in Skyrim the Hero of Kvatch

uncut hatch
#

most likely

#

i can't even say "oh he is cause he references martin" cause he also references king lysandus from daggerfall

dusky scaffold
#

he does?

uncut hatch
#

"Were you now? By whom? Wait! Don't tell me! I want to guess! Was it Molag? No, no... Little Tim, the toymaker's son? The ghost of King Lysandus? Or was it... Yes! Stanley, that talking grapefruit from Passwall. Wrong on all accounts, aren't I?"

#

i feel like i quoted too much there but its context... ya know?

dusky scaffold
#

ah, yes

#

with the whole quote, I know where and when he says it

uncut hatch
#

yea

sleek grove
#

I'm not sure but I think in one of his rants he mentions crystals

#

Meaning the Greymarch

#

But then CC content, which you can debate the validity, suggests Sheogorath chose to forget about Jyggalag

dusky scaffold
#

I only remember Butterflies, a fox, a severed head, and the cheese

#

(and something else, but I forgot)

dusky scaffold
sleek grove
#

I haven't played the quest in 8 or so years so maybe I'm just remembering wrong lol

#

I'd think Jyggalag would want to forget the thing he was cursed to be too

quartz shuttle
#

The problem with the quotes are... a Daedric Prince paying attention to Nirn is not unusual, especially during major events.

#

The lack if direct memory about the Greymarch, however, does seem to imply that the issue was resolved and Sheo doesn't want to think about it anymore. In Shivering Isles, he is very much aware of what it is, so this seems to be a new thing.

#

Now, whether or not it was the HoK who resolved the Greymarch and Mantled Sheogorath is unknown, and will likely ALWAYD be unknown.

#

But someone did it.

sleek grove
#

Blades makes one passing line about Jyggalag being out there

#

And then he was in 1 CC quest, or his sword and more information was

uncut hatch
#

i like that error message

#

you thought it was the jills who fix time? no its Jyggalag

sleek grove
#

I'd like him to have his own Daedric quest in VI but I don't think he'd ever be huge of a threat

#

His exact power idk, I do know he is very powerful, but not the scale

uncut hatch
#

Jyggalag is either too powerful or not powerful enough. theres no in between

sleek grove
#

His power threatened the other princes enough

#

Hardly any worship either

#

He has like 1 follower?

dusky scaffold
#

a daedra prince's power has nothing to do wiht his followers

sleek grove
#

Cool to know that

quartz shuttle
#

Based on what we've seen, Worship may in fact have no impact on a God what so ever.

golden sierra
# dusky scaffold a daedra prince's power has nothing to do wiht his followers

depends on what you mean by power. Princes can't very directly influence Mundus, and as such, gather followers to enact their wills. Mora will find folks who will gather knowledge for him, Boethiah will find people to overthrow stuff for her, so on and so forth. when they die, followers also provide souls, which often act as currency for Princes. in other words, followers definitely do extend the reach of a Prince, which could be understood as increasing the power of that Prince. spoiler, i guess, TESIV: ||after all, could Mehrunes Dagon have pulled off the Oblivion Crisis without followers?||

quartz shuttle
golden sierra
#

but what does "outright power" mean, really? it's a rather imprecise word

#

imo a rather useless word by itself, based on conversations i've had with a lot of people (which isn't to say someone is bad for using it, it's also hard to find something that's more fitting for what you mean)

quartz shuttle
#

Their ability to direct and cause action on their own.

sleek grove
#

So if Jyggy was ever able to invade or get something done he'd need help?

quartz shuttle
golden sierra
quartz shuttle
#

If every et'Ada = a power of 1, then Mundus is collectively a power of at least 9. So no individual Daedra has enough outright 'power' to take it on their own.

#

It's really a lot more complicated than that, but... Well, welcome to the whole concept of Power Levels.

sleek grove
#

So far Jyggalag has done nothing after Oblivion but evidence suggests he is out there somewhere. I don't think he really cares for mortals

golden sierra
#

it's also got to do with whether you're connected to Mundus or not

#

the Aedra created Mundus and as such are connected to it. Daedra did not, and as such, are not connected to it. thus the Daedra struggle to enact their will in Mundus

quartz shuttle
#

Mundus is already an ordered system. Why would Jyg really care about it?

golden sierra
#

well...

sleek grove
#

I wouldn't mind seeing him again if the right concept was with it

golden sierra
#

Mundus is quite literally the opposite of order, though. it's conflict personified. destiny in TES is never a set path (unless you look at it like Sotha-Sil but that's different than i'm talking about). if it were perfectly predictable, then Mora, Jyggy, and the Elder Scrolls could perfectly predict what happens on it, and yet...

quartz shuttle
#

Sheo's Mantle is an anomaly, a Mortal whose destiny is NOT as predictable as Dius' system indicates.

#

And with that in mind, i could see Jyg getting involved when Heroes crop up, because they disrupt the otherwise predictable system that is Mundus.

golden sierra
#

It is a mistake to think that events prophesized in the Scrolls are fixed and unchangeable; again and again we in the Order of the Ancestor Moth have seen the prophecies alter as the future changes in response to the acts of mortals. Future events foretold in the Scrolls may be deemed likely to occur, so likely as to seem almost certain—but no event is fixed in the Scrolls until it actually happens.

  • Moth Sister Terran Arminus Answers Your Questions
sleek grove
#

I see Jyggalag as someone with OCD. He's obsessed with his perfect order and keeping that. Sheogorath was the opposite with Chaos, something he didn't like. I'm not entirely sure tho

quartz shuttle
#

Dyus, again, disagrees

#

The great library was the height of logic and deduction. Contained within its walls were the logical prediction of every action ever taken by any creature, mortal or Daedric. Every birth. Every death. The rise of Tiber Septim. The Numidium. Everything. All predicted with the formulae found within Jyggalag's library

#

Which implies that Jyg's system is more accurate than the Scrolls themselves.

sleek grove
#

Wasn't there something about he understood something important to his existence? I'm probably wrong on that lol

golden sierra
#

sorry, was also grabbing Dyus quotes

#

Yes. Only then can I create an appropriate vessel to hold the power that is inherent in the lord of this realm. The Staff may allow you to occupy the Throne of Madness, but understand that such a feat has never been attempted. All sources indicate that you will fail. It is a certainty. However, I also predict that this will not stop you from trying.
-Dyus
Against all odds and all the knowledge that I possess, a new Sheogorath is risen. How I loathe the idea of personal choice. It makes things so... imprecise.

  • Dyus
golden sierra
quartz shuttle
#

Yes, you defy the odds, disrupting the formula. But that doesn't discount that Dyus indicates that the system of the mortal world is far more predictable than even the Scrolls indicate.

golden sierra
#

obviously the HoK is an outlier for being a Prisoner, and yet the fact that Dyus remarks that he loathes the idea of personal choice should, imo, show that even he knows that not everything is perfectly predictable

quartz shuttle
#

Rare anomalies, such as Sheo's Mantle, can disrupt that, but as Sil says... That sort of Free Will is exceptionally rare.

#

So i could see Jyg being particularly antagonistic towards Prisoners.

sleek grove
#

Soo the curse was never suppose to end

golden sierra
#

p much

quartz shuttle
#

It takes one of Lorkhan's pet projects to actually break the arcade machine.

sleek grove
#

Makes me wanna know what exactly Jyggalag is doing rn as of Skyrim

#

Must be nice to be free of something you weren't suppose to be free from

quartz shuttle
sleek grove
#

Break the Order and Jyggy gets mad

golden sierra
#

Sil's view of it is a bit funky and i don't like talking about it outside of controlled or private forums, so i'd prefer to avoid it 😅

but still, even if we go with the "no one has free will" thing (which i still disagree with, but apparently the Dyus quote didn't convince you and i don't feel like sticking on that facet when i have other points to make), Mundus is the Arena. it is embodied by conflict, never in stasis

quartz shuttle
#

Stasis, and controlled, predictable change, are different things though.

sleek grove
#

Also isn't Alduin technically not dead? You never take his soul

quartz shuttle
#

Likely, you don't absorb his soul because you don't kill him. You destroy him.

golden sierra
quartz shuttle
#

Fair

golden sierra
#

i was expecting fightback on that somewhere

quartz shuttle
#

No, it's a good point.

golden sierra
#

now i'm just lost for words skyfoxplop

sleek grove
#

I like Jyggalag, defiently my favourtie prince

golden sierra
#

uh... well, i'm glad you see my point then. i'll respond to the Alduin thing i guess

quartz shuttle
#

Hey, make a convincing argument, and you can convince me. That's how discussion is supposed to work.

#

And i'll be damned if i start acting like a Flerfer

golden sierra
#

yeah i'm not used to that, haha

#

it's refreshing, i just didn't know how to react

quartz shuttle
#

heh, it's ok.

golden sierra
# sleek grove Also isn't Alduin technically not dead? You never take his soul

Alduin is dead. the whole reason you killed him was to. well. kill him. going into some slightly deeper stuff, when you do so, his skin dissolves and explodes, which is a representation of him dissolving and exploding. futhermore, you see his soul fly off into the sun, which is related to Akatosh (Time -> Time Passes -> Sun cross sky) and also leads from Aetherius (where Sovngarde is) to Mundus (where Akatosh is). this can pretty easily be inferred as Alduin's soul being absorbed by Akatosh

as for why you don't absorb the soul, imagine filling a water balloon well past capacity. this is a full blown god we're talking about, not just a normal dragon soul. there's a good chance it'd be dangerous for a mortal - or even a normal dragon - to absorb

sleek grove
#

Nice to know. Sooo who actually resets Kalpas then?

golden sierra
#

no one. you ended the Cycle

#

well, Alduin already chose not to keep the Cycle going and instead to take over Nirn, but you ended it for good

sleek grove
#

I c. Guess the one day maybe reboot will never come

#

Or the franchise ends or something. Idk why but thinking of a game past 10 or 12 doesn't sit right imo

#

Didn't stop Final Fantasy ofc

#

Nothing that'll happen in the near or further future. This is talking way, ways eventually

#

Not at all that I want a reboot or anything. Just eventually

quartz shuttle
#

Only that in the Seven Fights, Alduin seems to imply that NOT turning the Kalpa is a very dangerous thing

sleek grove
#

I was going to bring it up just it always crosses my mind when a series goes on for a long time

#

With FF they all more or less are in their own bubbles with shared elements

golden sierra
#

the Kalpa is basically resetting Mundus and everything in it, by my understanding. even the Aedra get somewhat scrambled (evident in the Yokudan pantheon). as for its purpose, something of a mix of prevent eventual instability and always striving for perfection

you can think of Mundus as something like an imperfect code, or a somewhat buggy game. the longer you keep that code running or the longer that game goes without being rebooted, the more and more hiccups that are going to show up. to translate this to Mundus, more Dragon Breaks will occur, for instance. the Kalpa also resets everything so that, hopefully, this Kalpa is one step closer to perfection! no? okay, let's do it again! this kind of philosophy reappears repeatedly in the entire composition of the Aurbis, although it'd require delving a bit deeper than this to really show just how repetitive it is...

quartz shuttle
#

But of hypothesizing here...

In the 7 Fights, Alduin indicates that 'Heaven' broken him from Akatosh. Implying that his creation wasn't intentional, but was a consequence of something. Like creating the System of Mundus.

If Alduin's existence, and the turning of Kalpas, was an integral part of the system, what happens without him?

I think that the system needs periodic resets to remain stable. The longer it runs, the more 'Errors' build up. External influences changing the process, Heroes disrupting destiny, that sort of things.

Lorkhan, on the other hand, had alterior goals in creating Mundus. So disrupting it's predictable operation is right up his alley.

golden sierra
#

HA, feel my pain, pris!

sand flume
#

probably a dangerous thing because mortals keep messing with time and god stuff

sleek grove
#

The personal way I've seen Kalpas is they are similar, but do different things and not a plain copy. So a reboot where different things can go down than last time. Not nessisarily the same events either. This isn't based on anything just what I would picture

golden sierra
#

i swear, i got censored 7 times within 2 hours of joining the server

sand flume
#

lmao yep

quartz shuttle
#

Pfft. I got a literal warning for stating that calling Tsaesci Snakes was a racist holdover from the past.

#

But anyway, by destroying Alduin and effectively removing the 'End', you leave Mundus to run indefinitely, into entropy.

golden sierra
#

yyyyep

quartz shuttle
#

Like leaving a game of Civilisation to run until it just crashes

golden sierra
#

also a great example

sleek grove
#

MK suggests there is a 9th Era so. I don't think we'd ever see it tho. Like 5 whole era first

quartz shuttle
#

BUT. The longer those games run, the more weirdness you get. And Lorkhan want's that weirdness. That's how he gets to achieve his goal.

sand flume
#

that 9th era stops itself from happening

golden sierra
#

the 9th era is also the 9th era because it's missing, not because it takes place after the 8th era

quartz shuttle
#

Oh my glob

sleek grove
#

Was it MK that said one idea is the Dwemer were sent to a point where their tech was obsolete?

quartz shuttle
#

is the 9th Legion a reference to Legio IXth Hispania?

sleek grove
#

Only confirmed thing is Dwemer go poof

#

Or dusted, dependa if we are talking about Dwemer Ashpiles

#

As for the 9th Era isn't that more Sci-Fi than Fantasy?

#

I haven't read much on it tbf, so idk

quartz shuttle
#

Science fantasy

sleek grove
#

Ah, I like the blend of Science Fantasy

quartz shuttle
#

Tree ships, magic mind-melded mining bots mining god-corpses

sleek grove
#

My own series was to be that genre, but that's offpoint

quartz shuttle
#

Its High Magitech

#

At least as MK envisions it.

sleek grove
#

An AI that becomes Queen of the first Aldmeri Dominion right?

quartz shuttle
#

Maybe. At the very least it becomes KINMUNE

#

One OOG piece suggests it becomes Ayren, which could explain how she rose to power so quickly, but...

golden sierra
#

KINMUNE didn't become Ayrenn, just kinda mentally hijacked her, if memory serves

quartz shuttle
#

Or possibly the other way around. Its unclear.

golden sierra
#

'tis weird

quartz shuttle
#

Indeed.

sleek grove
#

The late fifth era is when things start to go bonkers

quartz shuttle
#

I believe Landfall is supposed to happen at the end kf the 4th. Or was it 5th?

golden sierra
#

C0DA also prevents itself

sleek grove
#

Think it's 5th

quartz shuttle
#

Either way, i never expect Landfsll to even happen.

sleek grove
#

I still need to read it

#

We have one book that references C0DA now in a title. That I know of anyway. Vivec Sermon 37?

quartz shuttle
#

The whole point of the Loveletter is to prevent Landfall. So MK left the door open to just cleanly write out all of that without any issue for Beth.

sleek grove
golden sierra
#

i'd say generally try not to think of MK's stuff that takes place in the future as actually bound to take place in the future

sleek grove
#

I take it into consideration if later they add some of the work into lore

golden sierra
#

regardless of your views on MK's works. personally, i see them as useful for providing context on things, even if the events they describe haven't or won't happen

sleek grove
#

Like I consider everything possible for the Dwemer dissapearence. I know what's likely and what is in the game, but in my brain I like to be open. I accept the answer given also

sleek grove
#

BGS do take some of his work into books or character quotes. So Heimskr for that latter one

#

Although Heimskr can't catch a break. I think if the Empire wins he's arrested? Not sure on that but I know he loses his house when Whiterun is attacked

golden sierra
#

he is, yeah

#

still preaches from his cell n everything

quartz shuttle
#

Honestly? Good

#

I don't care who your god is, i can't stand street corner preachers.

sleek grove
#

My god is Nazeem ofc

#

Jk

quartz shuttle
#

Heimskier was the most offensively annoying character in a game since Hope in FF13

#

Sorta like Ulysses in New Vegas, it is all i can ever do to not just shoot him in the effing face

sleek grove
#

I hate one NPC in Skyrim and that's the Ebony Warrior. He won't die from you shouting him off the cliff

#

That's my go to move

#

Just get Serena to tank him

golden sierra
#

i find Heimskr to give a lot of flavor to Whiterun, personally

#

i'm rather sad when he's not preaching under his statue. makes the Wind District awfully quiet

sleek grove
#

In lore I like 3 things in this order; Dwemer, Tonal Magic, and the Heroes of Tamriel

#

If in VI we are some dude I will be okay in the long run

#

I can't spell on mobile 😅

golden sierra
#

Heroes of Tamriel being the main characters, or?

sleek grove
#

Yea, was a bit vague on that lol

#

I'm sure Cyrus might get a reference by name in VI if it is indeed Hammerfell

golden sierra
#

i wouldn't be too shocked

sleek grove
#

He did take down a Dragon back before it was cool

#

Tiber's dragon to be more precise

golden sierra
#

said dragon does get mentioned in TESV 👀

#

||and is straight up seen in ESO||

sleek grove
#

Was about to say that lol

quartz shuttle
#

Maaaaaybe.

#

That is assuming Naaflagar and Naafalagus are the same dragon

#

Which is a reasonable asumption, true. But still an asumption.

sleek grove
#

I just assumed they were the same, the wikis seem to think so too

robust lintel
#

I don't see anything wrong with it. Much of the TES lore is built on assumption anyways

sleek grove
#

I've gone by two names, maybe he changed it to feel better about himself

#

Gotta feel good inside

quartz shuttle
#

Yeah, im just sayjng, its nkt officially confirmed. Very highly suspected though

sleek grove
#

Did Cyrus do much else huge in Redguard?

#

I want to say he took down an Airship too