#elder-scrolls-lore

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pastel sorrel
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Changelings are rare but exist, old remnants in Valenwood and such, usually keeping under the radar. The tiefling could maybe work as some daedric hybrid through lineage or mutation. There's really no incorporating the duergar, though.

round lodge
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Ahhh, well that's where I misunderstood, cause I've been seeing the long winding theory debating if Auriel & Akatosh are the same Aedric god, just that he's viewed as either or by men & mer. Idk what to believe is true about that theory lol. 😅

shell basin
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There have been people who think that Alduin and Akatosh were the same, but Nords themselves dispute that (and are in the best position probably to know).

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Dwemer seem like a cross between Gnomes (small but magical and sometimes technological) and Derro (the magical race of underdark dwarves in classical D&D, rivals to the Duergar - Duergar are basically like surface dwarves but worshipping a lawful evil fundamentalist deity, at least you know where you are with them, but the Derro are something different entirely.) With a bit of a nod to the steampunk Tinker Gnomes of Krynn, Dragonlance.

gaunt bear
gaunt bear
shell basin
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Well, Jesus technically is...

So is Dave Lister from "Red Dwarf", but that's another matter 😛

flint harness
solid path
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No real chance with Deep Gnomes. Your fully sapient races seem to be Man, Mer, and Fur (plus stinky lizards), but all of them are about the same size. There are goblins and reiklings, but how sapient they are varies by presentation.

I guess you could take the themes and make something inspired by the characters instead of literally bringing them across.

Your tiefling could be a spider daedra/dunmer mix, either by blood, magical accident, or deliberate experiment (either on their part, on someone else's part, or on the part of a daedric prince).

round lodge
pastel sorrel
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Even Alduin distinguishes himself from Akatosh.

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Imperials thought Alduin was the Nords being idiots and worshipping Akatosh by another name, and in the past the Nords were vice-versa about the Imperial view.

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Since then the Nords have come to recognize the two as separate.

robust lintel
balmy salmon
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A lot of the lore, both in-game and out-of-game, suggests that Alduin is a fragment of Akatosh.

round lodge
# pastel sorrel Imperials thought Alduin was the Nords being idiots and worshipping Akatosh by a...

If Alduin and Akatosh were the same, the latter would never end the world of Mundus unless he had a VERY VERY GOOD reason to do so, as that's what the Nords know Alduin for. The World-Eater. The Harbinger of the "End Times" as it were, like Ralof mentioned about dragons overall.

The only time I'd believe Akatosh would want to destroy the world is if the Daedric Lords all escaped from their realms, raging chaos and war upon Mundus. 😅 As a last resort option, maybe.

upper field
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I love that little piece of lore where Alduin is the reason why Dagon is such a jerk. Whether or not it's true is another story, but it's still funny.

round lodge
balmy salmon
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What I like about Mehrunes Dagon is that there's more to him than just being a destroyer. The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga suggests that he's like this because Alduin cursed him for trying to save fragments of the previous kalpa, and there's some in-game lore in Oblivion and ESO that suggests that he was at some point captured by Molag Bal but led an uprising against him in the realm of Lyg.

flint harness
upper field
round lodge
balmy salmon
# upper field Oh really? Nice.

Mankar Camorans Commentaries mention Mehrunes Dagon tearing down Lyg, and the ESO book The Adversarial Spirits claims that (using Khajiit names for the Daedra) at some point Mehrunes Dagon was captured by Molag Bal. Also related is that there's a household item in ESO, the Void-Crystal Anomaly, whose filename and original Public Test Server name was "Black Fragment of Lyg" that can be found in Coldharbour.

upper field
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Huh.

pastel sorrel
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Dagon represents destructive change and ambition. That's not always a bad thing, as an overthrow of a tyrannical government would just as much fall under that.

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He destroys and changes because that is his nature and role.

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And in the narrative of the Waking Flame, a Dagonite cult in ESO, it's believed Dagon was created by Magnus who saw the Mundus project as a failure and abomination and wants it to be destroyed.

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The truth of the matter is unknown, but saying it's strange that Dagon isn't always seen as evil is just begging the question; an earthquake isn't evil just because it destroys, and Dagon can't necessarily act outside of his nature.

round lodge
# pastel sorrel The truth of the matter is unknown, but saying it's strange that Dagon isn't alw...

The daedra as a whole are impossible to understand except for a couple. Morality is hard to pinpoint considering what each Prince has done towards Mundus' people over the vast millenia.

Dagon's role of ambition doesn't click right away when looking at him from multiple perspectives. Destructive change could mean anything, what new world could he envision to rise up if Mundus was destroyed by him?

pastel sorrel
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That said, it'll ultimately depend on Dagon himself. He may seek to destroy it so it can be remade better from his perspective (or Magnus's if he is in fact involved), or not remake it and instead free its inhabitants from their mortality.

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He may seek to remake it as part of his own demesne, another plane bowing down to him.

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He may just want to destroy it because that's what he does.

round lodge
# pastel sorrel That said, it'll ultimately depend on Dagon himself. He may seek to destroy it s...

He has plenty of choices, but for the most part his role is full of destructive nature, so no matter which way Dagon goes, something gets obliterated. So I guess he is more on the evil side of the morality spectrum. He has ambition for remaking a new world in his own image, but ultimately he's just a "Hulk Smash" kind of character.

But then we move over to Molag, that's where things take the darkest tone. 😮

pastel sorrel
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He has choices, not necessarily the agency to make those choices.

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It's like saying to someone with depression "you have the choice to get up, get therapy and meds and live a more healthy lifestyle that improves your mental wellbeing". Doesn't mean it's gonna actually click.

round lodge
pastel sorrel
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That's the Aurbis for you. It's potentially one of the purposes of the Mundus.

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Since the gods must be as they are, but mortals can have a choice in the matter, if only sometimes.

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Possibly even allowing for a sort of vicarious release for the gods. We get to live these varied lives while they're stuck running the place, but since they're also us it gets them out and about a bit.

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For all the chaos and variety that the daedra face and enjoy, there's fundamental parts of many of their experiences that are just missing that the Mundus provides.

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Probably largely because they are what they are, paradoxically as much as they change.

round lodge
tulip topaz
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Since when does Herma-mora get stuck? Isn't he the "knower of all things" or something?

solid path
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Well, like Dragonborn shows us, there are things he specifically doesn't know.
Or he might want something doing, know how to get it done, but be unable to persuade someone to do the necessary thing.

pastel sorrel
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There's things he doesn't know and he'll deal with mortals if he needs their help or sees a convenient opportunity.

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For instance, the price for his aid against Miraak was getting ahold of some Skaal knowledge.

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And the funny thing is, he probably had Miraak handled for the most part, so we were really just a pawn of his getting him some knowledge and then testing whether we or Miraak were more capable as champions.

crimson lintel
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I think Skyrim kind of misrepresents Herma-Mora a little, by portraying him as a backstabbing traitor all the time (same with most of the Daedra now that I think about it)

But it's more that he's obsessed with acquiring all knowledge, no matter the kind or value. It's likely that after all those years, Herma-Mora didn't have anything more to learn from Miraak, rather than it being an issue of obedience or capability

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Being Herma-Mora's champion probably involves a lot of quizzes and essay assignments

uncut hatch
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Alright, I never thought about this but now that I have it’s pretty interesting. Since The Elder Scrolls takes place on a planet called Nirn, that means the characters in the game aren’t human or human races. They’d be classified as something else. Since they aren’t human, then what are they?

jovial tendon
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Men and mer

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And yes, they're still human

pastel sorrel
uncut hatch
pastel sorrel
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In the context of TES, they're humans. Real life doesn't factor into that.

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Nirn is its Earth for all intents and purposes.

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Them being human has nothing to do with us IRL, because IRL does not exist in TES. They're human because that's what the setting says they are.

uncut hatch
pastel sorrel
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There's nothing to touch upon, the basis of the question's flawed. They're human, that's what the lore classifies them as.

royal coral
pastel sorrel
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Well you didn't ask so we figured you knew

gaunt bear
robust lintel
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Do you think we'll get a larger theme of the dead returning to life in the next TES? I mean more-so than the typical necromancy you see in the previous games.
Was just thinking since the LDB effectively stopped the end of the world (again) and thus thwarting the Kapla cycle. And being called the "last" dragon born to me implies there will not be another one because it is now no longer needed.
Imo I think this has severely screwed up the natural balance and order of things stopping the world from ending again as it's supposed to and complete chaos is sure to ensue even worse than the end of the world would have been. We're screwed. So perhaps this also screw up the cycle of life and death and the dead will rise again, but of their own control instead of mere necromancy

gaunt bear
robust lintel
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Such is the way lol

obtuse summit
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I think we're just postponed the apocalypse for another time.

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newest series just make black soul gem seems more common

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not sure if it's good thing.

robust lintel
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Could screw up time too since we've now robbed the beginning of its ending, causing it to fold in on itself and collapse and other unpredictable bizzare effects on time.

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In a way I kinda like to look at akatosh and alduin as the same being, but akatosh being the beginning and alduin the ending of time. Tho it probably don't add up, just thought it sounded cool

obtuse summit
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how's that gonna conflicted with other religion myth tho 😄

robust lintel
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Tbh alot of the religion already conflicts with itself 😆

obtuse summit
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if LDB have children, could they become dragonborn too ? 😄

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well about alduin, it's really remind me about kala, the aspect of time and destruction in hinduism. According Javanese myth, Kala is son of Shiva or Batara Guru.

royal coral
shell basin
robust lintel
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It would be different if this current cycle turned out to be the exception, we the player being these different heros in each chapter so far, whether that's stopping the end of the world, daedra invasions or even preventing the next kapla lol

lapis zenith
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Skyrim has one of the most lore pushing stories in an elder scrolls game to date. Like seriously, the Emperor was assassinated, a The Last Dragonborn will probably take their place (so we might actually know the name of our character, unless dragonbreaks). I mean seriously just by all our dialogue options LDB sounds very authoritative and brash. And by finding readings on Ulfric in the Embassy, I'm pretty sure no matter how Nord LDB might be, they are not going to be supporting the Stormcloaks.

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I do want to find out how the Ebony Blade traveled from Cyrodiil to the basement of Dragonsreach in give or take 25 years

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I need answers on why Mephala would change from entrusting the Blade to kill Thalmor to protect the Empire, to corrupting a random Jarl's child

pastel sorrel
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Last we know the Ebony Blade showed up chronologically was Blades, and then before it TES4. The artifacts all move around on their own or at the whims of their masters.

upper field
pastel sorrel
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It's not complicated, it's very simple.

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There's no more divine mandate for the dragonborn on the throne, so it's up to whoever can take it.

glacial scarab
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If there ever was to begin with. Sounds like usual Imperial Propaganda. Make something sound important when it really isn't.

glossy girder
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I was wondering about the term "Qahnaarin". Is it a title or a name ? Or Both ?

obtuse summit
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like dovahkiin probably.

glossy girder
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Was wondering because of how Dragon language works... Guess it's the same. Strundu'ul too. And Dovahsebrom. And Ysmir...

shell basin
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Bethesda has a history of making multiple possible endings have all happened at once... So, if the player decided to turn against the Dark Brotherhood and destroy them, Cicero and Babette escape and presumably one of them ends up being the new Listener, hearing the order to assassinate the Emperor and dealing with Motierre. And if the player sides with the Brotherhood, they assassinate the Emperor themselves, and Cicero and Babette survive (along with Nazir, but he just handles the regular murder contracts). Either way Titus Mede is assassinated by the remnant of the Dark Brotherhood, and with no sons to succeed him and his nearest relative Vitoria Vici also dead, the stage is set for a new Dragonborn to seize the throne...?

Possibly even at the behest of the Empire looking for a figurehead-hero who (a) has the reputation of saving the world, and (b) is in the Thalmor's bad books after the raid on their embassy...

After all, Arnaud Motierre does not prosper from his own treachery against Titus Mede. Because Mede's last action is to ask the Dark Brotherhood to return the favour, and Motierre is murdered in his bed in The Bannered Mare...

pastel sorrel
obtuse summit
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I always suspect elder council and titus mede have bitter relationship. probably titus mede want to continue war against Dominion and retake all former empire province but elder council want to preserve peace for whatever reason. well leaders rise and fall, that's something will always happen in tamriel history. nothing surprising.

lapis zenith
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I just cant wait to see how far the time jump is this time

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(side note, sorry for the inaccuracies)

obtuse summit
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so what possible new lore could be added? If the setting in hammerfell, I want more content about yokudan.

cyan crown
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Hopefully there some side questline about helping the alik'r fight the thalmor

obtuse summit
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You mean their mercenaries ? Or their people?

shell basin
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Talking about Alikr quests in Skyrim... I've always wonder what's the real truth about that quest in Whiterun, between Kematu's band and Saadia the fugitive. Who are the real traitors there. Because there's no real evidence in-game either way...

obtuse summit
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Both liars. It's just conflict between hammerfell's Noble houses. Nothing to do with thalmor.

sharp lantern
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If one of them is truly telling the truth, then Kematu makes the most sense. His stance is more supported by the lore and Saadia's story is full of holes.

balmy salmon
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As far as I know, there's only one instance where Bethesda actually went with the "all endings are true". The Dragonborn DLC alone excludes several potential player choices from TES III.

glacial scarab
# shell basin Talking about Alikr quests in Skyrim... I've always wonder what's the real truth...

The Thalmor aspect of the quest is possibly a lie with Saadia and Kematu trying to use it to get you on their side.
Saadias really not lining up for it with what we see and experience ingame in regards to how the Thalmor act.

If she was meant to have fled Hammerfell due to speaking out against the Dominion but Hammerfell is going to be Anti-Dominion and being in Skyrim would only mean Thalmor agents would be going after her and not some other group. Also that she's not in Stormcloak territory.

Saadia's claim of Kematu and his group working for the Thalmor doesn't work due to how we've seen them operate with informants telling them and then them sending agents in uniform.

Like the Thalmors goals after Ulfric got them legally in has to been cause issues. And dragging Saadia out of Whiterun absolutely would be a thing those Agents would do and fit their goals to cause problems to destabilise Skyrim.

robust lintel
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What's with the headless horseman being in skyrim? Like I get the sleepy hollow easter egg reference, but still.. idk it just seemed super random. And then has quotes like " you will join the dead" "all the living shall join the dead." Almost sounded prophetic to me

glacial scarab
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I think those lines are just generic ghost lines that you can hear at other places.

pastel sorrel
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"All the living will join the dead" isn't exactly much of a prophecy.

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Next he'll tell me I'm gonna breathe air.

robust lintel
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Lol sry was just reading from the thwarting of alduin and kapla's then onto arkay, mannimarco, and Celtic mythology

heady wave
sharp lantern
robust lintel
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Perhaps TESVI could also be about the beginnings of the world itself (in present time sometime after skyrim's time and era) and whatever catchy main villain with that. Alduin in Skyrim seemingly being the symbol of end times, so maybe we'll expand on & learn more of the world's beginnings this time round, with the Direnni tower in mind too?

split pond
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What do you imagine the Dragonborn to be doing come TES VI?

gaunt bear
rocky lion
glacial scarab
robust lintel
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The dragonborn will become corrupted from absorbing Alduin's soul. Yup, prob never happen, just my spin on it

gaunt bear
robust lintel
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In my playthru he does tho ^_^

gaunt bear
robust lintel
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Oh, I meant my imagination bro 😅

obtuse summit
gaunt shoal
robust lintel
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Come to think of it, I did find it hilarious Kematu had this huge posse with him to take down one lady and then on top of that practically begs you to do the hard work of capturing her. This girl must be like Dark Brotherhood assassin on steroids.

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But I think this one of those situations where you can't win regardless of the choice you make bc both are bad and telling you some kind of lie. The best option would be to just axe em both

glacial scarab
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TBF you're going to another country to find one person out of thousands.

robust lintel
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I can see that being a problem in like Hammerfell, but Skyrim is mostly Nords and I really don't recall that many Redguard in Skyrim so she gonna stick out

solid path
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There are a few just in Whiterun, and I keep running into Redguard bandits (they re more noticeable at a glance than "is that a nord or imperial" (or breton)).

glacial scarab
# robust lintel I can see that being a problem in like Hammerfell, but Skyrim is mostly Nords an...

It's still going through an entire province for a Redguard with a scar in which they do have a random encounter with generic Redguards about. It's not like they have perfect information and also don't have modern technology. They could be in any city, town, village or joined up with who knows what because Saadia fled to another country. So it isn't unreasonable to have a group of people if you going to try and find someone in another country.

robust lintel
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Seems like word travels fast tho in Skyrim. I do a quest or even a skill upgrade and suddenly every guard knows about it 😆 But yea it's not some big cities like our modern cities, not in the least.. these are more like small villages so someone is gonna notice and word will spread around for sure. Saadia herself already knew about the Alik'r prisoner in Whitetun and directed us there in the questline.

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A few ppl sure, but it just seemed more like they brought an army. Might be exaggerated, but it was a bit much..

glacial scarab
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Saadia works at an Inn in Whiterun so someone getting arrested would be easy for her to know especially in the way it happened in Whiterun.

Army is an exaggeration given the nature of a video game and also how word travels since they're not going to waste dev time on how long it takes for NPCs to react to stuff done.

dapper river
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Tbf, Saadia would probably be watching out for exactly something like this

cyan crown
robust lintel
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Curved swords lol

obtuse summit
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just realized the silver hand probably similar to black bow gang. their known for distinct silver weapons and specialized on hunting the werewolves for their fur.

solid path
# cyan crown Why are they more noticeable

With the mod set I'm wearing they've got a bias towards redguard armours for some reason.

Also redguards are a touch darker than most other human groups. The nords and bretons both seem to fade into "imperial" looks as well, so it's not always immediately obvious which of the three it is.

ember mountain
# gaunt shoal I just always thought it was sus that Kematu is holed up in a bandit den. With l...

That doesn’t necessarily mean anything. The former Champion of Boethiah is guarded by bandits and he says, “Mind my words or I'll mind them for you: I'm slave to no man, no god, and no Daedra. Boethiah talks about leaving your mark, a sign of your passing.... well, you can make a mark on the world without treachery and murder. Whenever a man's life is saved by armor made with these hands, these hands have changed that man's destiny and his family's. So you can tell that heartless Daedra b[censored] I'm done doing her dirty work.”

ember mountain
gaunt shoal
raw grail
# gaunt shoal I just always thought it was sus that Kematu is holed up in a bandit den. With l...

keeping in mind that the Alik'r Warriors are allegedly hunting down a Thalmor accomplice in Thalmor-ridden lands, that struck me as a fairly practical, if distasteful decision. according to Saadia, they're working with the Thalmor. imo that story makes it SIGNIFICANTLY more unusual for them to be hiding with bandits. it's obviously still plausible, but she wants us to believe that the Thalmor (who have a foothold in Skyrim) have sent Redguard agents to hunt down Saadia. Saadia, meanwhile, is apparently hiding in Skyrim of all places, which has a relatively high Thalmor presence... it seems completely fair to argue the Redguards may be acting immorally, but imo their story makes a lot more sense than Saadia's

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all of that said, it's fairly possible they're both lying, as mentioned before foxwhoops as confident as i am that Saadia is full of crap, Kematu is kinda fishy

gaunt shoal
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Say less. Both pretty sus.

glacial scarab
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Dragonborn will disappear after TES5.
Stormcloaks are more then likely to go on their own and the Empire has more armies.

sharp lantern
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If the Empire was ready for another war with the Dominion, they wouldn't be fighting the civil war in Skyrim to begin with.

high forge
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Oh crap! Hey I should've been hanging out here instead of the Skyrim section! lol. I didn't realize we actually have a lore discussion page.

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Okay anybody here? I have a question about the dragonborn.

brittle cobalt
high forge
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Okay so... Do any of you know (or have an opinion) if the dragonborn can be any race? Thu'um can be learned by any race, right?

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There's also question of those non-dragonborns. Can they learn the Thu'um through Greybeards training?

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Of course I can just headcanon anything. I can pretend like I'm Naruto in Skyrim if I wanted to. But I much prefer something far more sensible and fitting.

brittle cobalt
jovial tendon
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Dragonborn goblin

high forge
jovial tendon
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Well... I mean... Have you played Skyrim?

high forge
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I've had about a thousand hours with it, Sydanyo.

jovial tendon
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Well... The player character is dragonborn, right?

high forge
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Yes.

jovial tendon
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You can make a khajiit or an argonian or an elf player character

high forge
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Yes but Skyrim has so much freedom, anything is allowed. Sometimes I wonder if what I'm doing makes sense. Like, you can literally kill Harmon and his minions, yet somehow Molag Bal will have no qualms giving you his mace even if he knows you're a vampire-slayer.

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I wanna stick to lore-sensible stuff.

lethal crater
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well, the dragonborn emperors were considered imperial

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and what race talos was is a bit of a question mark in of itself

jovial tendon
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Alessia was Nedic, Reman Cyrodiil was an Imperial human, Tiber Septim was also a non-Nord human, Mankar Camoran was an elf

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So, definitely non-Nord humans and at least elves?

high forge
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Ah, awesome.

jovial tendon
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And since Skyrim, all the playable races

high forge
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Right. Of course. Got it.

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Like... Anyone can be Harbinger because anyone can train their bodies for combat.

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But to me, I wasn't sure if Thu'um was a Nird-exclusive thing

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I guess we got the Ebony Warrior to easily disprove that. lol

glacial scarab
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Anyone can be Dragonborn. It's a divine blessing that will never be explained.

Dragonborn Emperors include early Imperials with Alessia, Alessian, Reman and Septim. With the Septims having Katariah who with the change of "Dragonborn Emperor" being thing making her one making the Septims a Breton, Nordic, Imperial and Dunmeri line.

Anyone can learn the Thu'um it just takes a really long time.

high forge
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Thanks folks.

Now my Orc is a lore-friendly dragonborn. lol

shell basin
# jovial tendon Alessia was Nedic, Reman Cyrodiil was an Imperial human, Tiber Septim was also a...

Tiber Septim was a Nord. Although the Arcturian Heresy has been largely suppressed, and may be right or wrong about many of its postulations, one at least has turned out to have been correct: his original identity as Hjalti Early-Beard (friend of a fallen soldier who became the Ghost of Old Hroldan's Inn, and knew Hjalti under his original name but NOT his subsequent nickname of "Talos Stormcrown", nor his even later Imperial monicker of "Tiber Septim").

While Talos / Tiber Septim and his agents assiduously promoted the myth that he came from Atmora, this seems unlikely - Atmora itself having been long since uninhabited and uninhabitable: the Arcturian Heresy suggested that he was in fact born, not even in Skyrim, but in Alcaire, Bretony.

Of course when you become an actual god, you can (a) have certain powers over the actual timeline which suggests that the actual past can be changed, up to a limited degree, and (b) certainly have fanatical enough followers to enforce your own recorded version of "history"...

obtuse summit
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Half nord, half breton. So..a reachmen?

glacial scarab
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Tiber being a Nord is disputed if I recall.

Dude's name means nothing honestly he probably changed it to seem Nordic plus the Propaganda he made to align with the Nords

edgy rivet
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He's human, good good enough for me.

shell basin
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He changed it to appear Imperial - "Tiber Septim" is an Imperial name but he is not Imperial by birth. And this isn't even controversial: it's acknowledged, his reason being to curry favour with the "Imperials" of Cyrodiil.

It's fairly well attested he is actually a Nord - whether Talos is his actual original name (as the official record goes) or whether Talos itself was a false name for whatever reason, "Stormcrown" is a nickname in Nordic style (whether his ability to call on storms was due to another Shout-based ability or due to assistance from Zurin Arctus), and his true name is Hjalti Early-Beard.

Whether he was born in Alcaire, Bretony (as the Arcturian Heresy suggests) or Atmora (as his own official mythology points), or indeed in Skyrim (the nation that most obviously claims him as one of their own), there is actually pretty much universal agreement that he was a Nord, albeit one who adopted the Cyrodiilic-Imperial name of Tiber Septim.

It's generally agreed that the Reachmen were among his enemies early in his career - he made his name under Warlord Cuhlecain (oddly enough a name with a distinctly Reach sound to it, but fighting against Reachmen), on behalf of Falkreath (which was under Imperial rule from Colovia at the time).

glacial scarab
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It's well attested he built a lot of propaganda around him as some Son of Skyrim from Atmora. Him being a Nord is a contested claim from when he was alive.

Dude's a Breton and the settings unreliable narrator tries to hide it with his Propaganda.

shell basin
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Nah. Born in Bretony, but that doesn't make him of Breton racial stock. The name of Hjalti Early-Beard is the name that his official propaganda is trying to hide, and that's a Nordic name.

Lays claim to Atmora because, long before it became uninhabitable, it was the birthplace of Men, and he claims that because of the eternal war against Mer.

glacial scarab
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The name is him trying to align with the Nords. If he changed it for the Cyrodiils in Cyrodiil he'd change it for the Nords of Skyrim

shell basin
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If he was changing his name to align with the Nords, Hjalti would be the name he was trying to publicize, not the name he was trying to hide.

Nord, born out of his normal country, in Bretony, trying to hide his humble origins as "Hjalti Early-Beard, the Nordic refugee born in Breton Alcaire" by disguising himself as "Talos Stormcrown, proud son of Atmora", and later openly taking the name of Tiber Septim to win Cyrodiilic support.

glacial scarab
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Because he didn't need that name later on and like many things he threw it away.
Tiber's a Breton with a lot of propaganda he made.

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The only time we get a name is once he's working for Emperor Zero when he's already working on fooling people for his own ends.

gaunt bear
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He’s mantled Lorkhan, remember?

glacial scarab
#

Like we know that he isn't Imperial since Redguard and PGE1 talks of him being a foreigner to to the throne and PGE1 Skyrim says him being a Nord is a disputed claim which was written when Tiber was alive.

gaunt bear
#

So, basically a mess.

shell basin
#

Erm, what do you mean "PGE1 Skyrim"?

glacial scarab
#

First Pocket Guide of the Empire. Skyrim.
PGE1

shell basin
#

It is at least acknowledged that he wasn't Imperial, that he took the Imperial name of Tiber Septim to curry favour.

glacial scarab
#

PGE1 was written for Redguard and reflects into Redguard and TES3

shell basin
#

And we know that the Nords claim him as one of their own, but NOT on the basis of the claim that his real name is Hjalti Early-Beard - that's the heavily-suppressed Arcturian Heresy version (which I regard as having been proven true, at least with regards as to his early name, thanks to the Hroldan Inn quest in Skyrim).

#

now that's definitely not a Breton style of name

glacial scarab
#

He doesn't look Breton, Him being a Nord is a disputed claim and his name comes from when he was already in Skyrim working for Emperor Zero.

shell basin
#

That is the name of Talos comes from that.

glacial scarab
#

I say Emperor zero because i can never remember the guys spelling.

shell basin
#

NOt the name of Hjalti, which he is trying to suppress.

glacial scarab
#

Cuhlecain that was it.

shell basin
#

the Heretical claim being that he wasn't born in Atmora (as his mythology claims), nor Skyrim (as the NOrds claim), but Bretony, as a Nordic refugee from the Reach... this still does not make him a Breton.

glacial scarab
#

He's a Breton. He's not a Nord per PGE1 and he's not an Imperial per like every game.

shell basin
#

You're confusing racial heritage with geographical heritage

#

Born IN Bretony. Born TO Nordic parents and heritage.

glacial scarab
#

I'm not. You're getting spun out by Tibers own propaganda.

shell basin
#

No. How many times do I have to type it before you read it

#

THis is not Tiber's propaganda. This is the line he is trying to SUPPRESS

#

"Hjalti Early-Beard" is NOT Tiber Propaganda. It's the bit he's trying to HIDE and SUPPRESS - and therefore the bit most likely to be true

glacial scarab
#

He was in Skyrim under the Hjalti name per the ghost at Old Hroldan.

The Arcturian Heresy is Underking vs Tiber each pushing their own thing.

We know from PGE1 that him being a Nord is a disputed claim. That was written before Tiber and Zurins split as Tiber only held the Human provinces at the time.

We know from the games that he's not a Cyrodiil.

We don't know his family. His parents don't come up you are assuming based on a name.

sharp lantern
edgy rivet
#

I don't think names should really be so restrictive to specific types of humans anyways. Not as creative

sharp lantern
#

It's moreso cultural than racial, but those two are, for the most part, one and the same in TES.

earnest nimbus
#

The imperials did nothing wrong tbh

high forge
#

Can any race worship any of the nine divines?

obtuse summit
#

Yes

#

There's an argonian in windhelm who worship Zenithar. There's female dunmer priestess of Mara.

high forge
#

Hi Trailerkin. That’s your answer to my question, right?

high forge
#

@obtuse summit yo?

obtuse summit
#

yes

high forge
#

Thanks bud.

edgy rivet
obtuse summit
#

an-xileel vs thalmor 🤔

gaunt bear
obtuse summit
#

peaceful era is good for people of tamriel but boring for player. we want more conflict, catastrophic event,magic phenomenon, etc.

ember mountain
#

I imagine it would make sense for a necromancer to believe in the God of Worms, having achieved apotheosis and becoming the Revenant. As a potential path of ideology, not as a mandatory one.

sharp lantern
high forge
#

The HeroKvatch-is-Sheogorath thing can be flexible, right? I have an Oblivion campaign but I'm busy with other games. I'm a wood elf in my Oblivion campaign and I'd prefer my Skyrim orc character to head-canon meeting my wood elf during the wabbajack mission. But in order for me to roleplay it, I gotta beat Shivering Isles in Oblivion first to truly understand Skyrim's Sheogorath.

But is it flexible? I don't wanna go through the hassle of continuing my Oblivion campaign right now. I'm busy with other games.

Many thanks folks.

#

As in... It is not that big of a stretch to assume Skyrim's Sheogorath is not the Hero of Kvatch, correct?

heady wave
high forge
edgy rivet
#

Stuff like that IMO just feels unfair to the player, like there is no choice in the matter.

high forge
proven moss
#

The games are plenty vague about the possibility.

#

Only your headcanon matters, when it comes to your experience. If your Hero of Kvatch didn't become Sheogorath, so be it.

high forge
high forge
#

How powerful/non-powerful is the Hero of Kvatch/Hero of Cyrodiil in the events of Oblivion? Can he hold a candle to the Nerevarine and Dragonborn?

And Nerevarine is, in fact, Morrowind's hero. Correct?

Thanks.

grand relic
#

and Nerevine is Morrowonds Hero and Aziras Champion

#

Also, interesting Nerevine Backstory of the name Nerevine, also another name for the Messiah in Abrahamic Religion, sent by God, kinda like Morrowind Nerevine

edgy rivet
#

Unfortunate that they make the game that way(Where theres no choice)

high forge
#

Can Serana, in lore, turn into a vampire lord? Or is that exclusively a dragonborn and Harkon thing?

glacial scarab
#

Yes.

The whole clan probably can just gameplay wise you see Harkons one is scripted or he's already in it so I think from a Game point of view it's more the issue of having NPCs transform.

Serana is also a companion so it would be very annoying if a Companion turned into a Vampire Lord or Werewolf getting the attention of things you don't want to kill like if it happens in a city because of a Dragon attack

grand relic
#

I imagine why none of your Companians Guild members turn into Werewolves either

ivory idol
#

Were I can learn about the lore of ESO? It's before Skyrim or after

brisk perch
#

ESO takes place many centuries before TESV

glacial scarab
ivory idol
#

Ty

#

I want to learn the lore of Elder Scrolls

proven moss
topaz dome
digital basin
#

What is the life span of individuals who have contracted lycanthropy? Is the life span same, extended, or indefinite?

proven moss
royal coral
split pond
#

Which of the minor holds in Skyrim are doing the best economically at the start of the game?

proven moss
#

They've got mines, and even a museum, while also being a port town.

#

Since Pale Pass was closed, Falkreath is probably not doing as hot.

digital basin
split pond
# proven moss Dawnstar, probably.

I was actually thinking of Falkreath, mostly because everyone in Dawnstar is probably very exhausted from all the nightmares. And it's the only minor hold with a second town in its borders. Losing Helgen was a blow to its economy, though, no doubt.

glacial scarab
proven moss
edgy rivet
#

Interesting

obtuse summit
#

well they're just nerds and only want to be left alone with their own stuff.

glacial scarab
#

I wouldn't put Dawnstar that much on value for trade. Solitude and Windhelm are the known big ones with Dawnstar being a minor port.

proven moss
#

Like was mentioned above, Falkreath has access to the mountain passes to Hammerfell and Cyrodiil (the latter is currently blocked) but the game doesn't really portray overland trade all that well so we can't really make a good judgement on how much trade is actually going on there.

glacial scarab
#

I say the EEC Shipping map is old because it has a circle for Ebonheart which was destroyed in the Red Year. Though it does ask the question for what happened with Southpoint.

pastel sorrel
#

Balmora was

glacial scarab
pastel sorrel
#

Assuming the Scathing Bay's still boiling two centuries later.

#

Especially since the Dunmer can take the heat a lot better anyway, it's just whether ships can

glacial scarab
#

Well if Red Mountain wants to continuously spew for hundreds of years I'd imagine the Scathing bay might also still be rather hot.

edgy rivet
#

Red mountain exploding is secretly a daedric event /tinfoilhat

pastel sorrel
#

Your mum was a daedric event

gaunt bear
edgy rivet
#

Sometimes Evil or danger is like weeds. Pull one up and another comes out.

gaunt bear
robust lintel
pastel sorrel
#

Considering the alternative was Alduin eating everyone anyway, that doesn't really track. We don't know what's to come, but it was going to end anyway if Alduin wasn't stopped.

#

As for the Eye of Magnus, that's blatantly false, it's strongly implied it was the catalyst for the Night of Tears and nothing claims it only just now came into existence. The Khajiit even have theology about Magnus's eyes being torn out and cast away.

#

The heroes of the games have been remembered fondly so far, so, I'd say you're putting way too much pessimism into this.

#

Also rather suspect that Ancano was in the area right when Saarthal was being investigated. Almost as if he might've been a little aware of its history. Even if the details were lost, it was known something was buried under there that was involved in the Night of Tears.

obtuse summit
#

Mer had enslave Men for years in cyrodiil. pledge themself to daedra princes. the dragonborn is blessed by akatosh to bring down mer rules since st.alessia time. it's not like all mer not have a sin.

pastel sorrel
#

Not really? The Wanderers already were forced to find their own path. The Old saw them as fallen degenerates and refused to let them come home.

#

Not sure where you're getting all that stuff about eating animals either, the Green Pact is as fundamental as it gets and it specifically says to do it rather than eating plants.

#

In fact the Bosmer are the only mer really attuned to nature, can't really blame the Wanderers for what the Old themselves have done. Meanwhile the Bretons have the various druidic sorts, even the Nords are more in tune with the land than the Altmer are.

glacial scarab
#

Regarding the "eye" No one actually knows what the "Eye of Magnus" actually is.
The Psjic Order don't know what it is and defaults to what someone at the College of Winterhold said which was the "Eye of Magnus".
This Orb has no information on it beside being in the Nordic ruin of Saarthal. But as far as we can tell it isn't doing anything to keep the world afloat. It's just an Orb with magical power.

pastel sorrel
#

It is notable that the Staff of Magnus was able to interact with it, though.

sharp lantern
#

like there's two shipping lanes literally going through where Solstheim's supposed to be.

edgy rivet
#

Nick seems like he's being a devil's advocate just for its own sake.

pastel sorrel
#

Place is a backwater, the only ship going out there is the one from Windhelm

glacial scarab
#

Map is around 200 years old. But ships do go to the Imperial City.

sharp lantern
gaunt bear
#

@uncut hatch But at what cost?

#

I was referring to the cosmological cost.

#

I only have this to say: when hatred is met with more hatred, the cycle of violence will never be broken.

gaunt bear
#

… don’t overthink things. You’ll strain your brain.

obtuse summit
#

Too much hit on skooma i guess

edgy rivet
#

Or.....<Insert drug here>

brittle cobalt
pastel sorrel
#

This is unironically Third Reich-adjacent propaganda and my Poe's Law meter is going off. Which certainly matches the Thalmor. Ask their people people that they keep periodically massacring where their peaceful existence is supposed to be found. The Thalmor will go as far as tracking down dissident refugees in foreign lands to deal with them. They're not here for peace, they're here for enforcement, which isn't necessarily the same thing.

#

The Ehlnofey slew one another, you keep whitewashing the elven branches as if they don't have their own horrendous histories both ancient and recent. The Ayleids were chattel slavers, the Falmer had a role in instigating their war (not to condone the Nordic colonization in any way, but slaughtering civilians is not a good look no matter who's doing it), the elves overall didn't all get along and still don't.

We don't know what the Blades were up to. We know they carried out some kind of damaging operations, but those could well just be logistical operations like burning warehouses and ships, they're not necessarily there to be assassins as well. Spilled blood inflames tensions.

There's no "promise of renewal", and the Dragonborn Prophecy predates Talos by quite a bit. Alduin was going to eat the world and probably rule the next one. The gods themselves want this kalpa intact, they've always kept hedged bets in place to hopefully ensure its survival, as they themselves seem to have something going on.

The Great Collapse having anything to do with Arniel doesn't track. It happened around 80 years ago, he's maybe in his 60's at worst; even for a Breton aging, he might've been a child at best when the Collapse happened, and overall nothing ties him to it.

gaunt bear
#

@pastel sorrel Glad we agree.

#

Uh huh. Where’s your proof? Can you foresee the future?

pastel sorrel
#

... The continents haven't been vanishing

#

Yokuda's still there, just sunk down to the mountaintops. It's still around as scattered islands, there's still trade with them as of TES4

#

Red Year had to do with the literal small meteor smashing into the place, and even then Morrowind's actually doing relatively fine, it's just Raven Rock that's a backwater. Even Vvardenfell was being rebuilt mere months after the worst of the impact and eruption, and the mainland only really got wrecked around the coastline with Vvardenfell, further in like Deshaan wasn't really touched.

#

Tonal magic isn't some forbidden super weapon, it just can be, but regular magic can be as well. It's another way of doing things.

#

... Akavir's not trying to crowd onto Tamriel, they've sent two relatively small invasions with specific purposes and they were a long time ago. Aldmeris never existed (or more accurately, is Tamriel and they don't realize it), Atmora was evacuated due to the Frost Fall which has no known tie to any tonal manipulation. For that matter, Atmora is still there, it hasn't vanished either, it's just snow and ruins now so there's little point going back there.

#

And Pyandonea just does a little bit of trolling but otherwise is mainly concerned with Summerset, not all of Tamriel.

gaunt bear
brittle cobalt
#

Okay, let's cool it on the gifs. No need to post the same things over and over.

split pond
#

How cool would it be to have another Akavir invasion, but this time in Summerset, and we the player must choose between either the Thalmor or the Akaviri? There are no good guys, just different flavors of black and/or gray.

#

This I'd like to see. Where? ESO?

pastel sorrel
#

Considering the Akaviri seem to be less concerned with genocide, they'd make a good case as a lesser evil off the bat.

glacial scarab
#

The two times the Akaviri invaded they were looking for something.
First one was looking for a Dragonborn and the second was looking for a "Ordained Receptacle".

Though with how TES writes them I wouldn't have any hopes for them getting content.
The Tsaesci are weird in the sense Bethesda is like we can't be clear or show any Akaviri... and proceeds to show the Tsaesci twice (TES4s Pale Pass undead and the kneeling Dragonguard on Alduins wall).

pastel sorrel
#

also Renald technically

sweet plume
split pond
#

Wait, there were Akaviri in the Great War?

pastel sorrel
edgy rivet
#

I guess another Mer disgrace is in the future.

balmy salmon
#

Speaking of the Akaviri, I wonder if their descendants still control Rimmen.

glacial scarab
#

As far as we know of the 4th Era Rimmen is still independent of Elsewyr since the late Second Era.

#

It appears in the novels if I recall and said it had a Potentate ruling it

high forge
#

Are the Vigilants of Stendarr the only order of knights that existed in the elder scrolls world? Aedra only. I don't care about daedric orders. And Dawnguard doesn't count.

glacial scarab
#

The Vigil of Stendarr arn't Knights.

But Knightly Orders have existed since TES2

#

Knights of the Circle: The Knights of the Circle serve the guardians of the Order of Arkay.

Order of the Lily: As knights of the House of Dibella,.

Knights Mentor: The Knights Mentor serve the School of Julianos.

Kynaran Order: The Kynaran Order serves the Temple of Kynareth.

Maran Knights: The Maran Knights serve the Benevolence of Mara

The Crusaders: The Crusaders (also called the Knights of Stendarr) serve the Temple of Stendarr.

Knights of Iron: The Knights of Iron serve the Resolution of Z'en.

Order of the Hour: The Order of the Hour serves as the militant arm of the Akatosh Chantry

high forge
#

I mean, the definition of "knight" in the real world is more of a mounted warrior more than anything.

#

Yet in these types of games, we throw around the word "knight" a lot.

glacial scarab
#

The Vigil of Stendarr are a order of Stendarr that formed post Oblivion Crisis. As far as I know there's nothing Knight related to them. Like they might have some Knights apart of their order but the Order itself isn't a Knightly Order.

high forge
proven moss
#

A knight is more a warrior of noble blood, irl.

glacial scarab
#

Depends on how TES views it.
The TES3 Class description went with

Of noble birth, or distinguished in battle or tourney, knights are civilized warriors, schooled in letters and courtesy, governed by the codes of chivalry. In addition to the arts of war, knights study the lore of healing and enchantment.

#

TES2 had multiple Knightly Orders you could join.

gaunt bear
#

Can we create our own?

glacial scarab
#

TES2 does not have custom Knightly orders

balmy salmon
# high forge Yet in these types of games, we throw around the word "knight" a lot.

High Rock has a largely typical European "knightly" tradition of noble warriors on horseback. The Empire has picked up on knightly traditions of its own, mostly in the form of various secular and religious knightly orders. In a way, the comparison makes me think of Bretonnia and The Empire from Warhammer. For one, it's a way of life for the nobility. For the other, it's mostly a collection of chivalric orders dedicated to serving churches or cities since the Empire already has the Imperial Legion to form the backbone of its military.

high forge
#

Thanks, everyone.

robust lintel
sand flume
#

fallout is the dawn era

shell basin
# pastel sorrel Red Year had to do with the *literal small meteor smashing into the place*, and ...

Well, the southern part of Morrowind was kinda smashed, by the Argonian invasion - as was the Telvannis peninsula in particular. Hence the gift of Solstheim to the Dunmer refugees by Skyrim, who couldn't think of a use for the island, and the only condition was that the Dunmer not bother the small native Nord population there (the Skaal and Thirsk population).

Fort Frostmoth, the Imperial fort, was ruined by the volcanic activity which killed General Carius (who of course was later reanimated by ash-heartstone magic - insane, and without most of his memories including those of his own part in the founding of Raven Rock). Raven Rock survived, and was at least based around a working ebony mine - at least until the miners broke into the tomb of a Dragon Priest and the mine had to be abandoned and hushed up (which to be fair seems a reasonably honourable reason for hushing it up): now with the destruction of said Dragon Priest (and the removal of Hermaeus Mora's Black Book, which was also there), the mine can be reopened as a mine and make Raven Rock prosperous again.

As for other events of the Red Year: I notice that, despite the fate of the "Pride of Tel Vos" and Brandyl Telvanni / Brand-Shei, Great House Telvanni does still survive in Morrowind, even on its high council. I assume therefore that the "So falls House Telvanni" of Brand-Shei's questline refers to the smaller "House" itself, rather than the larger "Great House": in other words, the actual immediate bloodline of the Telvanni surname itself and related families, and the Argonian invasion sacking every settlement they could find up the Telvannis peninsula, in revenge for centuries of slavery in which the Telvanni had taken such a great part. It is perhaps confusing because "House Telvanni" might be colloquially used to mean either of two things - the Great House, the wider clan, or the narrower definition of the House which would itself be only a smaller part (and founding family) of the Great House.

pastel sorrel
#

Well bear in mind, it all happened nearly two centuries ago

#

That's a good long while for recovery.

plain cosmos
#

Depends on the impact. It took some parts of Europe 150 years to recover from the Black Death

#

And humans reproduce much quicker than Mer

high forge
#

In Skyrim, the Champion of Cyrodiil/Hero of Kvatch/Daedric Prince gets mentioned to and alluded to a few times, through books and NPCs. But is Morrowind's hero mentioned at all in Skyrim and/or Oblivion?

#

And he/she is called the "Nerevarine", right?

plain cosmos
#

The Nerevarine is mentioned to have sailed to Akavir in a RUMOUR in Oblivion, and mentioned somewhat in passing by Neloth in Dragoborn

#

Which is honestly more than the HoK gets, as Sheo's dialogue could easily be just generically referencing events in Cyrodiil at the time

slender latch
#

You might be interested in something I've been digging up. The year 2288 in Fallout = 4E202 in TES.

There is an official crossover of the blades agent from TES:Blades and Fallout 4 in Fallout Shelter Online. In the crossover the Blades agent gets transported to the Fallout universe after meeting with the Dovahkiin so it had to be after 4E201. He then meets Nate from Fallout 4 who assists in finding a way home. This means 2288 and 202 at the very least have to be concurrent if time runs the same rate in both universes. This date could be moved slightly more or less.

Interestingly enough this places 2077 and the great war at 3E325 at the most. So close to 3E327 the year Morrowind starts.

gaunt bear
high forge
pastel sorrel
glacial scarab
high forge
#

Do any of you happen to know the spelling of the name of that elf who became the first elven Harbinger of the Companions? "Henantia the Outsider"? Is that right?

pastel sorrel
high forge
high forge
#

Yo, I really gotta ask...

Do you folks think those pets from Creation Club in Skyrim... Are canon and lore-friendly?

#

I really hope they are but... That pack goat, man. She's amazing and I hope she is canon and lore-friendly, but how do you have a little goat survive your character's dangerous journeys? lol

sand flume
#

same way your horse survives lol

#

how you gonna say a goat with a little backpack isn't lore friendly 😭

plain cosmos
#

Whether or not they are TRUE is another matter

sharp lantern
balmy salmon
#

I wonder who's on the Telvanni council now.

edgy rivet
#

New people we've never heard of.

plain cosmos
#

Neloth, obviously. But we don't have any further information about the house to form an opinion on

balmy salmon
#

I wouldn't be surprised if during the Oblivion Crisis, the Dremora Xykenaz finally collected on his deal with Dratha.

plain cosmos
#

Would have been a good opportunity

#

We also still don't even know if Fyr survived. Though even the near collapse of the Great House probably wouldn't be enough to get him to join the council

high forge
plain cosmos
#

180 years before Skyrim, yeah.

#

However, we later learn from Neloth that Great House Telvanni is still alive and on the Great Council, which indicates enough survived for them to to rebuild and remain a functioning political entity

#

The Great Houses don't entirely work through specific bloodlines anyway

#

The Telvanni family isn't even universally linked TO House Telvanni

balmy salmon
#

The thing with House Telvanni is that most of its Masters are at least centuries old. It'd be interesting to find them in a position where there simply aren't enough Dunmer mages powerful and ruthless enough to fill the shoes left behind.

high forge
#

Just because you're a Bosmer does not automatically mean you're a cannibal, right?

Yffre and the Green Pact can kiss my butt. Wood elf is one of my primary race choices.

pastel sorrel
pastel sorrel
#

Probably just more annoyed than anything that his tower got nuked

glacial scarab
#

The Telvanni birthright does not matter at all. Great House Telvanni is a Dunmer house where might makes right matters. Dude would be killed day one if he tried to reclaim it.

shell basin
#

That's why I purport that there is a difference between the overall "Great House", in which anyone can join the membership on a patron/client relationship (although families will tend to stick to the same Great House), and the narrower definition of the "House" (blood-related families) which obviously founded gave its name to the Great House in the beginning. Thus allowing for the latter, the narrower "House", to have been basically wiped out - apart from Brand-Shei, and he was brought up as a fosterling by Argonians - but the Great House to have survived as an overall entity even if the Telvannis peninsula was particularly badly sacked by the Argonian invasion.

We see in ESO, back in the Second Era, that there are still people around in the Morrowind homelands with the actual surnames of Hlaalu, Telvanni, Redoran, Dres, Indoril... that is, the surname, placed last, indicating actual membership of the family by blood, as distinct from a Great-House name placed first before one's given name (e.g. King Hlaalu Helseth Mora of the Third Era: "Hlaalu" first indicating membership of the Great House, "Helseth" as his given name, "Mora" as his family surname - which, as we know from the lore around Barenziah, is itself a family branch of a wider dynasty called Ra'athim, within Great House Hlaalu.)

Note that in the case of Nerevar: he's often referred to as "Indoril Nerevar" - indicating membership of the Great House, since the House name is put first, but not of the actual Indoril blood family, otherwise it would be placed last as a family surname. Nerevar's actual family surname is not stated, assuming that Nerevar is his forename. Likewise "Sotha Sil" is supposed to have been of a smaller House called Sotha - evidently large enough once to have been a House that had people who weren't part of the actual Sotha family by blood, but not numbered among the Great Houses. Sotha may or may not have been a subsidiary House under a Great House banner, probably Telvanni.

glacial scarab
#

TES3 also has someone with the surname of Dres in House Telvanni though they don't have any unique dialogue since they're just used as hostile enemies I think

balmy salmon
#

The author of Twin Secrets would probably be strong enough to rise to the upper echelons of House Telvanni, but the book hinted that he's dead from old age.

gaunt bear
high forge
#

Is the fact that, unless you're a master conjurer/necromancer in Skyrim, you can only have two summoned/animated minions at a time and nothing more to be imposed upon you in the game an accurate match with the lore? Or is it just Bethesda looking for ways to make you not overpowered in gameplay?

#

Let me rephrase that... It's a messy paragraph...

#

In gameplay, you can only have a max of two animated or summoned minions at a time. Is that an accurate representation of your limits in the lore? Or it's just a much-needed game mechanic to keep you from being overpowered?

obtuse summit
#

its not easy to control more than 2 minion i think lorewise, unless you have some magical artifact. in game encounter, many mage sometimes failed to control their own atronach and killed by them.

fading wigeon
#

While I doubt even a talented/powerful mage could reliably power and command a whole army of summons or reanimated dead without some special artifact or contract with a powerful entity

#

I'm like 99% sure the 2 summons limit is a game balancing mechanic

#

Like how humanoids who are too high level can't be reanimated is definitely not a lore thing

obtuse summit
#

you still make your own army tho, your follower can summon 1 using staff and your thrall could use it too.

fading wigeon
#

Ritual Stone abuse, as well

#

Elder Scrolls has always had an "issue" perfectly adapting lore into what we see in-game

obtuse summit
#

probably higher their mental power, its more difficult to get controlled by necromancy.

fading wigeon
#

A big example? The major cities in Skyrim are supposedly dozens of times larger in lore than they appear in the game.

obtuse summit
#

if you want lore-accurate towns, play daggerfall lol.

fading wigeon
#

Personally, it doesn't bother me that much

plain cosmos
#

I'd rather Skyrim, where I can talk to every individual, over The Witcher or Rockstar where 99% of NPCs are just cardboard cutouts to take up space.

raw grail
#

A-friggin-greed

#

One of the coolest parts about playing a TES game

#

I've been playing Morrowind the last week or so and I've been missing more unique NPCs

#

The copy-paste dialogue is better than the next to 0 interaction we get in most other franchises, tho

glacial scarab
edgy rivet
#

When you learn about Tiber Septim's shennigans throughout his "conquest" 😣 😲

gaunt bear
plain cosmos
#

The only characters I cringe harder about the community fanboying over more than Tiber, are Pelinal and Ysgramor

edgy rivet
#

I do like the idea of the Empire being around but...Tiber is a very naughty man. I mean in a war criminal way.

plain cosmos
#

Even by most real world historical standards

#

His whole 'Sell a whole city into slavery thing' would have been Excommunication stuff

#

Yeah yeah, it's clearly an Alexander the Great reference, but... Alexander was demonized as a barbaric tyrant by most of his contemporaries for that

high forge
# plain cosmos The only characters I cringe harder about the community fanboying over more than...

lol. I'm actually a Jorrvaskr and Ysgramor fan. lol. Sure they slaughtered innocent elves, but so did the elves who got slaughtered. lol

One thing I adore about the Companion's history was when Henantier the Outsider officially became the first elven Harbinger. It was controversial, but it shows how non-racist the Companions had become.

I myself am a wood elf, and sometimes I'm an Orc. I do appreciate being accepted by the Nords.

I guess that in a sense, I like Oblivion's Cyrodiil better because of their Cosmopolitan values. Unlike the racist Skyrim Nords...

plain cosmos
#

There's a bit of a conceptual difference between "Get off our land and stop mucking with dangerous artifacts" and "KILL ALL THE ELVES" THOUGH

#

Does it make the Falmer innocent? No. But at the end of the day, the Atmorans ARE the colonisers

obtuse summit
#

Refugees and probably yokudans too.

#

Akaviri on the other hand are invaders.

plain cosmos
#

Refugees don't generally pile into boats and set off into the unknown

#

The human settlements, like Sarthaal, had to exist first, before any potential refugees fled Atmora. More likely, they were outright colonial holdings

#

Then, once those holdings exist, crisis in Atmora can lead refugees to flee TO them. But they're still colonisers

edgy rivet
#

Oh yeah Akaviri did invade parts of Skyrim(I think, my memory is selective)

plain cosmos
#

Skyrim and Morrowind

#

Though it was really more of an outright invasion, the only place they really colonised was Rimmen... After they were somewhat relocated down there by the Remans

obtuse summit
#

Atmora become colder each years, so what's their going to do? Waiting to death? They're looking more Warmer region, lore-wise northern part skyrim not always snow like in game I think.

plain cosmos
#

That seemed to be a much later thing

obtuse summit
#

Are you just refer colonisers for all man or just Nord?

plain cosmos
#

There's nothing to suggest Atmora's freezing was an influence in Ysgramor's time

#

It's unclear, but probably just the Atmorans/Nords

#

The Nedes were likely native to Tamriel, along with the Mer

obtuse summit
#

Mer native from where? Summerset?

plain cosmos
#

At the very least, it seems Dwemer and Altmer were native to Tamriel. Potentially the Falmer and Chimer were already in place at the start of the Merethic as well

#

Also Orsimer

#

The Velothi Exodus takes place, depending on the source, anywhere from the late Dawn, to mid Merethic. Meaning the presence of Chimer, Altmer and Orsimer on Tamriel is likely pretty much from day 0

#

What that means for Topal's story we don't know... But our only source on Topal is a translation written by someone who doubts their own translation in some points, and knows nothing about navigation or archaeology

#

Sooo... Dubious source

obtuse summit
#

In the end, both men and mer coming from same ancestor. Mer choose to stay and Men choose to wandering. Men found settlement in yokudan, akavir and atmora. Yeah, pretty much war between men and mer are confirmed in many resources.

plain cosmos
#

Yeah. Though Men are almost always the agressors

#

I say almost, because the Thalmor are the exception of course

obtuse summit
#

Order and Chaos are core of Elder scrolls series. Men are pretty much chaotic, unpredictable, want more progress. Mer always stagnant, always remember how great their old days.

#

Thalmor, aldmeri dominion is something from the past.

plain cosmos
#

Men are just as nostalgic as Mer. I mean, look at Ulfric

#

Mr "I want to revive traditions dead for 4000 years"

obtuse summit
#

When talking about men, I always think about imperials and bretons lol.

#

Honestly, Ulfric pretty much hypocrite. He hate moots too even its part of traditions that he bring up.

plain cosmos
#

He also demands rights he literally formed an army to deny to the Reachmen

#

I like Ulfric as a character, but man... His fandom in the community is just as grating as Tiber or Pelinals

obtuse summit
#

The reach region are pretty much complicated as Israel-Palestine.

#

Tiber septim is pretty much fraud, talos feel like different being.

plain cosmos
#

Which is part of why so many argue Talos is 3 people merged into 1

edgy rivet
#

Never liked Ulfric, I could smell his BS pretty easily. Not that I don't want him to exist persay(He's a natural part of the world).

plain cosmos
#

I feel like the Skyrim civil war was largely written to appeal to American Revolutionary pride.

#

Which, as a non American whose ancestors fought AGAINST the rebels, and against the American invaders in the war those taxes were imposed for, I had none to offer from the onset

#

So right from the get go, I had no inherent bias to draw on, and had to resort to the actual facts of the situation as contained in the game. And man, Ulfric is at best an emotionally damaged pawn. At worst, he's a tyrant demogogue.

edgy rivet
#

Me back in 2011 or close to it on Ulfric Stormcloaks: "Wow you guys are racist"

Modern me: "Yeah you guys are idiots and bigoted but.... screw the Thalmor.

plain cosmos
#

The way I look at it now is...

#

Both Stormcloaks and Thalmor suck the big one. But at least the Thalmor are snappy dressers

high forge
#

Do you think healing potions taste gross?

gaunt bear
obtuse summit
#

wheat and blisterwort just plain?

high forge
high forge
obtuse summit
#

well there's also rock bird egg.

#

and blue mountain flower. i think its not that gross.

#

and monarch butterfly wings lol

high forge
obtuse summit
#

well tea leaves want have words with you 😄

plain cosmos
#

Teas, rosewater, any sort of vegetable broth...

#

It depends more on the actual plant, than any broad statement

ember mountain
# plain cosmos I like Ulfric as a character, but man... His fandom in the community is just as ...

That’s odd. I seldom see his fandom. I usually see people romanticize the Empire (even when it comes to wiki entries that are supposed to be neutral, something Addai chastised the wikis for) even though the Reachmen suffer under both the Empire and Stormcloak aligned Jarls, and the Dunmer and Argonians of Windhelm potentially get a new Jarl who runs the Hold exactly like Ulfric did - won’t let Argonians into the city and will not focus resources on improving the Grey Quarter due to other pending issues.

plain cosmos
#

Most people are neutral on the topic, and recognise both sides are flawed, yes. However, the Ulfric support base, when I do encounter them, are up there with those of the other names

#

Per the Reach, however, there is evidence that the Empire isn't happy with the current situation. The forge operator accuses you of sounding like the Imperials when you chastise him for abusing his workers, and the Empire did try to steal the deed to the mines to try and get it out from under the Silverbloods.

#

Is that perfect? Not by a long shot. But it's still a large step up.

ember mountain
plain cosmos
#

Yes on both accounts. But again, we have direct evidence of the Empire objecting to the treatment of the Reachmen, at least frequently enough to warrant an association when you do it

ember mountain
#

There is also the matter of the atrocities committed by Jarl Igmund’s father, Hroldfir, once he returned to power, including the execution of a girl who pleaded for her Reachmen father to be spared.

plain cosmos
#

They're obviously not willing to intervene, but it's a step up from actively perpetrating

ember mountain
plain cosmos
#

There is nothing to support that claim

ember mountain
#

Besides multiple characters, including Jarl Igmund himself.

plain cosmos
#

That's a pretty skewed way to interpret Igmumd's single line of dialogue there

ember mountain
#

There isn’t a white hat faction in the civil war. They both do deplorable things. The first time you potentially hear racism directed at your character comes from an Imperial officer. Both factions are flawed. I give Bethesda credit for not doing what Dragon Age II and Inquisition did by allowing Ulfric and Tullius to be flawed men doing what they think is best for Skyrim, even if you oppose them - they don’t turn into Saturday Morning cartoons like antagonists in Dragon Age do to avoid any issues with the player opposing them.

glacial scarab
# ember mountain That’s odd. I seldom see his fandom. I usually see people romanticize the Empire...

For Windhelm I'd note that the Argonian ban is for Argonians living in the city. Game wise it's not something you can change quickly ingame without killing people off which with TES5s scale isn't feasible. Also can't just solve the issue of Windhelms racism in one questline as it will take alot of time.
The Dunmer part is also just not something that can be covered ingame as he said he swore and oath and taking steps towards it.

The Reach is just a mess since the Markarth Incident that's not going to change as long as the Silver-Bloods are in power regardless of who controls Skyrim.

glacial scarab
ember mountain
#

As for the Hlaalu Dunmer, he gives a similar excuse as Ulfric. Ulfric says he’s focused on the civil war, while he says he’s focused on other matters that mean he can’t restore the Grey Quarter.

#

The Reach has been a mess since the Empire took back control from the Reachmen, absolutely.

glacial scarab
# ember mountain As for the Hlaalu Dunmer, he gives a similar excuse as Ulfric. Ulfric says he’s ...

Will you let the Argonians into the city?
"I'd like to, but it's not as simple as that. Most of the folk in the city believe as Ulfric did, that outsiders should not be trusted. Until those people learn to accept the Argonians, they must remain outside, for their own safety. Old habits don't die easily, and we Nords can be as stubborn as stone."

Any plans to renovate the Grey Quarter?
"I've taken the first steps toward doing so already. I met with several of the Dark Elves to discuss improvements in the Gray Quarter, but we have no real plans as of yet. First we'll need to refill our coffers and stockpile stone and wood. The war took a heavy toll on Windhelm's resources. But I swore an oath to our Dunmer friends that, for as long as I sit on the throne of Windhelm, their needs will not be ignored."
Is what Brunwulf says which is different to what Ulfric says when he has a conversation about Unrest in the Grey Quarter (the only time he comments on the other races in Windhelm if I recall) as Ulfric just says he's "busy" with the war but we hear he'll do something if it affects Nords in Eastmarch but not if it isn't a Nord. Brunwulf makes it clear he's making an effort by having spoking to several Dunmer to talk of improvements which is alot different to just being ignored like Ulric does (just because stuff happens off screen doesn't mean stuff didn't happen).

Only thing we hear about the Argonian ban is post Imperial victory by one of the Argonian workers who says it was Ulfric who banned them from living in the city that's about it while Brunwulf is also having to deal with Nords being a lot more prejudice post Stormcloaks to the point it's a safety concern on his PoV while has to work on undoing the years of prejudice. I'd imagine writing wise it was something they thought of but forgot that TES doesn't restrict based on race so it didn't get expanded on much other then the city theme of Windhelm Nords being racist towards non-Nords.

shell basin
#

Changing societal prejudices takes time, and often takes a lot longer to get rid of a prejudice than it does to create one - or re-create an old one that was supposed to be gone.

Amazing how often Elder Scrolls games reflect real life...

edgy rivet
#

I can understand hating on High Elves Wood Elves, Khajit Dunmer and Argonian. Hating on slightly different humans(NOT A SLIGHTY). Not that I'm hateful but when they're your fellow humans its...odd.

Edit: Within the Elder Scroll universe I mean 😛

ember mountain
#

Not to mention I don’t see why it’s okay when Brunwulf keeps the Argonians out but it’s bad when Ulfric. We never hear Ulfric comment on the matter.

glacial scarab
ember mountain
glacial scarab
ember mountain
glacial scarab
glacial scarab
#

Just because stuff happens off screen doesn't mean it didn't happen or something like the Imperials would be a cultureless race with "Colovians" and "Nibenese" being unreliable narrator

ember mountain
# glacial scarab Just like everyone is

We hear Igmund talk about the Empire betraying Ulfric while justifying it as a necessity. We hear Reachmen talk about the Jarl (Igmund’s father) committing atrocities. We hear people talk about things that contradict certain propaganda. I don’t get why you’re acting like Brunwulf is beyond reproach when he’s literally working with the Empire.

glacial scarab
ember mountain
glacial scarab
#

We know the Dunmer view Brunwulf positively

Aval Atheron: "Friend Brunwulf, how good to see you! If you see anything you like, just let me know and I'll glad offer you a discount."
Brunwulf Free-Winter: "That's not necessary. I'll pay the same price as anyone else."
Aval Atheron: "But I insist. and with good reason. Malthyr told me that you've been speaking to Ulfric about our situation. He said you're going to help us. So few Nords have ever offered to help us, a discount is the least I can do."
Brunwulf Free-Winter: "I'm not looking for special treatment, Aval. All I did was talk to Ulfric. For all I know, he's already forgotten the conversation. I wouldn't get your hopes up."
Aval Atheron: "Oh, I see. Well, I'm sorry to have troubled you about it. Just... know that your efforts are appreciated."

ember mountain
glacial scarab
ember mountain
#

In fact, he gives a similar excuse as Ulfric.

glacial scarab
glacial scarab
ember mountain
ember mountain
glacial scarab
#

Brunwulf literally says was talking to them that's better then ignoring them entirely which is what Ulfric is doing.

ember mountain
glacial scarab
#

Pretty sure that was Brunwulf which comes from a Brunwulf Conversation with a Dunmer.

ember mountain
edgy rivet
#

Ulfric's word doesn't mean much.

ember mountain
glacial scarab
#

Not really. You just want everything to happen all in one day. Ulfrc deliberately ignores while Brunwulf actively tries to help the other races.

ember mountain
unkempt tide
#

This discussion isn't going anywhere, let's change the topic.

ember mountain
#

What does everyone think about the theory regarding the Augur being a Reachman before he “changed”?

glacial scarab
#

Probably people going Breton = Reachmen. Dunlain I think is outside of the Western Reach under Farrun.

#

Though UESP sources him being a Breton mage as Prima guide which I'm going to check a moment.

#

Guessing UESP went with his ingame race.

image.png image.png
#

Lacks the face markings for what TES5 uses to show that this character is a Reachmen/Reachfolk

image.png
#

Don't think character wise he has anything that could be seen as Reachmen so I think that theory is just someone trying to make something out of nothing.
Only thing we know was that they were from High Rock, was a brilliant mage/student and was involved in an accident. Can't see anything that talks of them to highlight something about their race outside of being "of Dunlain" which would point towards Breton.

high forge
#

Are the blessings and disease-curing that the shrines of the Divines have, real? Or it's just a game mechanic?

high forge
# ember mountain What does everyone think about the theory regarding the Augur being a Reachman b...

Bro, considering how any man, mer, or beastfolk can reasonably be the Dragonborn, at this point, anyone can be anything. The Augur of Dunlain can be a non-corrupted Falmer for all anyone cares. My own Bosmer Dragonborn is basically hanging out with the Orcish stronghold folks and physically overpowering them in physical competitions like brawling and lifting.

This isn't Dragon Age where dwarves are literally incapable of magic.

So yeah, let the Augur of Dunlain be a Reachman. His barbaric origins doesn't make him incapable of being a master mage.

ember mountain
high forge
ember mountain
high forge
# ember mountain I think the treatment of the Reachmen in the Reach is abhorrent (I help the Reac...

I have three characters in three different campaigns, personally. My Orc hadn't encountered much of the Reachmen yet, but considering how he is in favor of the Vigilants of Stendarr, he'd probably help with anything that would eradicate the forsworn since they are heavy on daedra worship.

My Redguard doesn't care.

My Bosmer killed Madanach and his fellows.

My personal opinion is that these Reachmen desperately need to be colonized. I kinda hate their barbaric lifestyle.

#

They're more barbaric than orcs and that says a lot.

ember mountain
# high forge They're more barbaric than orcs and that says *a lot.*

We don’t see their society when they’re governing themselves during the Great War. They’re currently targets of discrimination; we see characters use the term “native” with disgust. Historically, one of them outmaneuvered a Daedric Prince. I’d have restored the Reachmen to self-governance if it was an option. I wish the Reachmen lore about their magic was an option to explore.

#

Especially during the College storyline. It would’ve been nice to see another side of the Reachmen.

high forge
# ember mountain Especially during the College storyline. It would’ve been nice to see another si...

Forsworn in the College of Winterhold? lol. That's hard to imagine.

The first thing they need to do is dress like a civilized person. Really, it's hard for me to imagine.

I think this is one of the best things about this game. We all have our own interpretations of themes and people. Me, personally, I love the beast blood and the vampire lord form, yet I also love their anti-thesis of the Vigilants of Stendarr when I'm playing a noble character.

At the same time, I can't imagine myself ever siding with the forsworn. They really disturb me. And I don't think they were that more cultured before the Great War.

edgy rivet
#

the ideal is converting Forsworn from their primative ways.

high forge
#

And they do human sacrifice too, don't they?

#

And just as importantly, daedra worship. Please, no. There's a reason the Companions' Circle keep their true condition a secret.

#

And the fact that they commune with hagravens is just... Repulsive. The friend of my enemy is my enemy.

glacial scarab
high forge
#

Why do people within the game world generally hate daedra and daedra worship? Because all the daedra are simply known as "not our ancestors". I can understand Molag Bal hating or Namira hating, but hating all daedra? I just don't understand it.

The Orcs, for example, came into existence because of the daedric lord Malacath. So does that mean that the Orcs should automatically be hated by everyone? Even those who are civil?

edgy rivet
#

I mean if you see those Dremora come up to you. You'd probably not like them either >.>

glacial scarab
#

The issue the people of Tamriel have with Orcs is really to do with Stronghold Orcs. As Orcs raid as it was a thing Malacath I think it was who wanted it.

Their raids are actually what started that little tradition of destroying Orsinium.

#

You don't really see much of it in Skyrim since the Western ones are surrounded by Forsworn (there's also a random encounter of 3 orcs vs 3 forsworn) and the eastern ones are having leadership issue from memory.

ESO explores it from memory when they were covering Orsinium's first sacking in a side quest and in the public dungeon of an Old Orsinium's ruins.

glacial scarab
obtuse summit
#

forsworns are reachmen but not all reachmen support the forsworns, forsworns will attack other reachmen who live peacefully with nords. heck its seems not even forsworns have unity.

obtuse summit
high forge
glacial scarab
high forge
glacial scarab
#

I'd imagine so. It's why people suffering fom diseases never talk of going to a shrine to cure themselves.

I think I recall someone having a theory the shrines either only do that for doom driven people or is just a gameplay thing.

Like the TES3 ones were you giving money to the cult for services I think it was. Didn't stop the shrines for the Tribunal even if you kill them all.

high forge
#

In lore, outside of black-soul-trapping the Ebony Warrior, will he get to Sovngarde when you kill him?

#

Because the man is a Yokudan/Redguard. Only Nedic humans get to Sovngarde, I think... Or am I wrong?

obtuse summit
#

nedic or nordic?

#

nedic are native people who live in hammerfell

high forge
high forge
obtuse summit
#

oh right, nedic still have unknown origin.

high forge
obtuse summit
#

so we should generalize every men in atmora as atmorans?

high forge
obtuse summit
#

nedic people not worship totem

obtuse summit
high forge
#

But anyway, the original question please? About the Ebony Warrior?

obtuse summit
#

well dragonborn can enter sovngrade if they can prove themself

high forge
obtuse summit
#

people must earn right to enter the mead hall. I think people just choose whatever afterlife they believe/want. unless you pick contract to daedra prince or got soul trapped.

#

yes, ebony warrior can enter if he could prove his right.

#

I think tsun will ask you whatever you live or dead.

high forge
#

Ah, I see. Yeah, that makes sense.

I just was wondering since Sovngarde is "the" afterlife for Nords. I wondered if it was exclusive to them.

obtuse summit
#

but people want to afterlife for meet people they loved/care, if your family/lover went to sovngarde, why you want to other god's afterlife?

pastel sorrel
#

It's probably more the Nordic pantheon as opposed to the Nordic people.

#

If you follow the Nordic gods, you get their afterlife.

#

Certainly Tsun never comments on our race, and that we're alive is just more interesting than anything else since it's rare to see the living in Sovngarde. We're tested on our might like anyone else.

heady wave
# high forge In lore, outside of black-soul-trapping the Ebony Warrior, will he get to Sovnga...

I don't think it's mentioned, normally the explanation goes "Sovngarde is the Nordic afterlife." But you have to consider that most afterlives in TES (i.e. the Daedric) are reserved for those who believe in it.

I don't find it a long stretch to accept the Ebony Warrior goes to Sovngarde when dying - he believes in the traditional warrior lifestyle, he's adventured and reached the peak of his life. Considering he knows of the trial of being accepted (dying in honorable combat) he is probably aware of and praises the Nordic pantheon, and overall makes him more Nordic than more than half the Nords in Skyrim itself. Being apart of a people is more than simply blood.

Some of that is assumption because the dialogue is vague and he's simply an end-game challenge (and is likely the reason why his NPC isn't added to Sovngarde if you've waited, he's just a fight without much afterthought). But IMO it's not a stretch to believe that at all.

obtuse summit
#

Most races follow their own pantheon, imperial cult is exception for mixed between men and mer gods.

pastel sorrel
# obtuse summit oh right, nedic still have unknown origin.

Nedes are the native men of Tamriel. The Yokudans are potentially a separate mannish branch, whereas the Atmorans' ancestors hailed from Skyrim, they themselves recognize that it's their ancestral homeland and the "out of Atmora" theory is a purely Imperial propaganda piece.

pastel sorrel
#

The Bretons more accurately have a proper mixture, among various other local gods, which then forms their own pantheon. The gods exist and have influence in the world (that is, they are the influence, since they are the world), you're gonna find a bunch of the same gods across different pantheons as such.

sweet plume
pastel sorrel
#

Yes.

obtuse summit
#

or same gods with different name?

pastel sorrel
#

Both.

high forge
obtuse summit
#

ayleid worship daedra, i mean that's reason why akatosh blessing alessia, a human slave. ayleid have abandoned him.

high forge
# sweet plume But Atmoran’s are Proto Nords?

Dude, Proto Nords are Nords. The only real difference, by definition, is that the more modern Nords compared to their proto ancestors are much more "evolved" because of the several millenia between them. But their DNA is linked to one another.

As humans in the real world, we are still quite alike our Cro Magnon ancestors. Cro Magnon apes are still human.

sweet plume
high forge
sweet plume
obtuse summit
#

aren't you playing TES IV

high forge
pastel sorrel
#

The Ayleids had various pantheons

high forge
pastel sorrel
#

Molag Bal and Meridia were some of the chief daedra, and chief theological rivalries as such, but they all had their own things going on

sweet plume
#

I really think you shouldn’t get annoyed and make it sound as if I should know what the hell I didn’t know lol

high forge
sweet plume
high forge
obtuse summit
sweet plume
#

I am aware that Atmoran’s are still pretty much Nords but before they would be labeled Nords

pastel sorrel
sweet plume
obtuse summit
#

I think nedic and nord are different tribe of men. they have very different religion and culture.

pastel sorrel
#

The Atmorans can be considered Nords and as I recall referred to themselves as such by the time they were inhabiting Skyrim. It's just useful to refer to Atmorans specifically when relevant, since "Nords" tend to be seen as their Skyrim descendants and cousins.

high forge
obtuse summit
#

wandering ehlnofey is proto men lol

sweet plume
sweet plume
high forge
#

@sweet plume @obtuse summit @pastel sorrel

Back to topic please. So our resident end game Redguard boss can, in fact, attain Sovngarde? Because you have to consider that the Redguard/Yokudan pantheon are a different interpretation, and they probably don't call their afterlife as "Sovngarde". Ebony Man is an outlier for his race and culture.

pastel sorrel
#

If the Ebony Warrior follows the Nordic pantheon, hypothetically he should be sent to Sovngarde.

high forge
#

@heady wave

sweet plume
#

I assume if you follow a specific way of life that although is not the common way your people follow, you are allowed to enter

pastel sorrel
sweet plume
#

A Redguard who lives life as a Nord would most likely be seen as worthy to enter Sovngarde

sweet plume
pastel sorrel
#

It's a separate realm, but when we go there our race is likewise not commented on, and in fact the Breton we go there to save is told he's welcome there if he wants IIRC.

#

So it's a theological matter, not racial.

obtuse summit
#

like you meet rikke in sovngarde but not tulius because he is not follow/believe nordic pantheon?

#

even he dies on honorable battle.

sweet plume
sweet plume
heady wave
# high forge <@103645611420553216>

i mean i already gave my opinion.

he believes in the warrior lifestyle, he's adventured and reached the peak of his life. Considering he knows of the trial of being accepted (dying in honorable combat) he is probably aware of and praises the Nordic pantheon, and overall makes him more Nordic than more than half the Nords in Skyrim itself. Being apart of a people is more than simply blood.

for his dedication he more than fits the bill to enter Sovngarde, Skyrim doesn't make a point that Sovngarde is only for the Nords, that'd put every other afterlife into perspective, which already established the idea of "you believe in it, you go there"

high forge
sweet plume
#

It’s honestly a beautiful concept because in ESO there is a khajiit Raised by Orcs

#

So he reveres Malacath

high forge
obtuse summit
#

If an orc believe trinimac instead malacath, they will go to aetherius instead oblivion realm? 🤔

sweet plume
high forge
sweet plume
#

There is also a Dark Elf in ESO, she reveres the 8, not the Tribunal

high forge
sweet plume
#

I haven’t played Skyrim in 3 Years tbf

obtuse summit
sweet plume
#

Still the thing really shows “Shouldn’t you be worshiping this?” Goes into the stereotype

obtuse summit
high forge
# sweet plume I haven’t played Skyrim in 3 Years tbf

Oh okay so let me enlighten you... Although not explicitly stated, there was a point in the Jorrvaskr Companions history where an Elven servant who trained hard and did good deeds was named as the next Harbinger by the then current dying Harbinger. And then the dying Harbinger said, "even an elf can be born with the heart of a Nord, sometimes." It was a historic moment and very controversial at the time, because some of the Nord members quit the Companions when it happened. But it's a beautiful piece of history.

sweet plume
#

Honestly you think they would look at that High Elf compared to those always using Magic and looking into dusty old tomes to be one of the Best High Elves

#

Like it’s been said Nords grow to respect outsiders who can prove themselves but I suppose some of them are just outright racists

high forge
obtuse summit
#

what is difference between mage, sorcerer and wizard in elder scroll lore? or they're just same job?

high forge
obtuse summit
#

Pelinal Whitestrake was the enemy of all elfkind that lived in Cyrod in those days. Mainly, though, he took it upon himself to slay the sorcerer-kings of the Ayleids in pre-arranged open combats rather than at war; the fields of rebellion he left to the growing armies of the Paravania and his bull nephew. >> taken from song of pelinal

ember mountain
glacial scarab
plain cosmos
#

They seem more like pedantic divisions than, say, D&D divisions though.

#

Functionally, they're all using Magic the same way, they just specialise in different skillsets. Like a Pediatrician and a Endrochrinoligist are both 'Doctors'

glacial scarab
#

It's probably more how TES handles classes as it tends to be pain to find what name does what. While for Battlemage we see it attached to a armoured mage, a Legion mage or a Nibenese Noble (from their Battlemage aristocracy who I would assume also does magic)

high forge
#

Do you all agree with Fudgemuppet’s assertion that the Ansei Redguards are the best warriors in Tamriel?

plain cosmos
#

No.

#

Sword Singing is magic. Therefore, they are Battle Mages

#

And I'd generally say Dunmer have historically shown themselves to have the best warriors in Tamriel. They're the ones who never got conquered

high forge
plain cosmos
#

I'd still say the Dunmer. The Redguard were successfully conquered twice. The Dunmer, not even once.

#

And as they don't have a standing army, the Dunmer are, by definition, Warriors

glacial scarab
#

Don't know about the Dunmer. They always had the Tribunal bail them out. Having living gods by your side tends to help alot.

high forge
#

Personally I consider the Jorrvaskr Companions as the best. Only due to two people… Kodiak and Skjor.

If you have those guys willfully training you, you’d greatly improve. And unlike orc tribes, they aim to help each other get stronger.

obtuse summit
#

having assassin group to solve problem and evade war is not warrior's way.

plain cosmos
#

Depends on the culture

obtuse summit
#

between nord and redguard i think.

#

I mean yokudan used to be like sengoku jiddai era in japan, war between local lords happen all time.

plain cosmos
#

This is part of the problem with these questions. 'Warrior' means very different things in different cultural contexts. At least, academically, it's someone who fights part time but war isn't their primary job

obtuse summit
#

the tongue vs the ansei.

plain cosmos
#

The Tongues never sunk a continent, sooo...

#

They may have frozen one though

brisk perch
#

To my knowledge I think the early Nords might have conquered part of Resdayn back in the day, but early years are murkier than murkmire.

high forge
obtuse summit
#

the tongue war sounds like kinky tho 🤣

plain cosmos
#

Then Nerevar rallied the Velothi, allied with the Dwemer, and Morrowind was never conquered again.

obtuse summit
plain cosmos
#

Even after their... Setbacks.

obtuse summit
#

nerevar powered by azura. 👀

high forge
brisk perch
#

TMK redguards lost their ability to use their shehai

glacial scarab
high forge
plain cosmos
#

Though Boethia is a lot more complex than the games tend to show...

brisk perch
plain cosmos
#

Yeah. Though we don't know what was up with those cursed swords in the first place...

high forge
brisk perch
obtuse summit
plain cosmos
obtuse summit
#

both tongues and ansei probably no longer exist.

brisk perch
plain cosmos
#

Pet theory... They were the Blades Diagna stole from the Left-handers, and were cursed by their makers for the genocide visited upon them by the invading Yokudans

high forge
plain cosmos
#

Let's put it this way. Pre-Tribunal Dunmer beat the Nord Tongues so hard, Windcaller had a crisis of faith

high forge
#

Juergen

#

Stupid self correct.

#

Jurgen

plain cosmos
#

Yes

#

And possibly the Dwemer. At the same time.

#

Red Mountain is... Complicated.

obtuse summit
#

we don't talk about red mountain lol

#

or talos divinity.

plain cosmos
#

Yeah. Anything involving the robot gets confusing

high forge
#

Terical, the problem with your thinking is that you’re only thinking in terms of massive scale war. I’m more paying attention to individual prowess. And Ansei, orcs, and Jorrvaskr Companions, in my opinion are the best warriors.

glacial scarab
#

I can't remember if it was described and if it would apply to TES5s Ward spell

plain cosmos
#

Based on individual skill, Gaiden Sinji is the greatest warrior. And he was neither Ansei, nor Tongue

#

And if we're looking at heroic figures, well, again... Nerevar, and we're back to Dunmer.

#

In fact, Dunmer are widely regarded as extremely capable and dangerous fighters, individually or enemasse, and we're both feared and respected by basically everyone who ever fought against them.

high forge
#

But can a Redoran guard beat Vilkas?

plain cosmos
#

A random guard? Probably not. One of its Weapons Masters? Maybe

high forge
plain cosmos
#

Have you SEEN Dunmeri brows? They're bold people

glacial scarab
#

There's a lot of variables tbh which is why I don't really agree with race y beats race x in z combat.

#

Like Redguards get called great Warriors and they get worfed alot.

obtuse summit
#

redguards as best swordmen is the only thing i agree.

cerulean tulip
#

In terms of individual heroes I’d say Nords have a strong case.

pastel sorrel
#

"can X beat Y" is often such a hugely subjective question dependant on variables that are often not even known

#

It's a vague and useless discussion.

cerulean tulip
#

Still fun though

high forge
# cerulean tulip In terms of individual heroes I’d say Nords have a strong case.

Which are these heroes, exactly? I firmly believe that the Companions of Jorrvaskr, Orc tribesmen, and Ansei are the best warriors of Tamriel. Although Skjor and Kodlak were Nord leaders in the Companions, it is the faction itself that has the best warriors. Not the race of Nords. You have Athis and the old Henantier as elves in the group, after all.

#

And Sirok the Lofty.

obtuse summit
#

how about red eagle? not even nord or redguard but totally one man army.

high forge
#

Identical too.

#

"Red Eagle's Fury" x2

obtuse summit
#

yeah, its a bug.

split pond
#

Who gets the Dragonborn's soul when he dies?

gaunt bear
brisk perch
#

No one and everyone, due to all possibilities existing simultaneously

gaunt bear
brisk perch
# gaunt bear https://tenor.com/view/theoffice-michaelscott-facepalm-explain-likeimfive-gif-49...

TL;DR: All possible outcomes of combat encounters, including and especially the prisoner (a.k.a. the player) dying, and all possible outcomes of quests, can happen and do happen to a fashion, due to them all being visible as possible pasts, presents, and futures to Hermaeus Mora. Anything that Hermaeus Mora does not see is a blindspot, what would you do it a part of your mind decided to hide some memories from you?

cerulean tulip
#

My headcanon is all the daedric princes, shor, and akatosh battle it out for his soul in a divine battle royale.

gaunt bear
cerulean tulip
#

Yes

high forge
#

Orcs are elves, right?

heady wave
gaunt bear
high forge
heady wave
#

yeah

high forge
#

Also, were they already orcs even before the brutalization of Trinimac?

heady wave
#

no clue myself

gaunt bear
#

Eddy: What’s the word, Double D?

Edd: Inconclusive, Eddy.

high forge
#

Hm, I wonder what the Orcs were before Boethiah's destruction of Trinimac...

gaunt bear
high forge
#

Either way, Orcs are one of my three go-to races. Outside of the three, I'm never picking anything else. Orcs, Redguards, and Bosmer.

glacial scarab
ember mountain
split pond
#

Is it true that Talos is apparently three people combined into one?

glacial scarab
#

It's a theory.

obtuse summit
#

a bit meta , warrior ( wulfharth) mage (zurin ) thief ( hjalti ), in-game you could become a "godlike" if maximized all the skill trees 😛

raw grail
raw grail
# heady wave Yes IIRC. An easy way to remember it is their proper name is Orsi*mer*.

it's still a good reminder, but just for information's sake, "mer" has been used in a few instances which don't refer to elves, such as with "Betmer" (beastfolk) or "Nemer" (not folk). Orsimer do seem to be elves, regardless, based off of Septimus Signus's quest to approximate Dwemeri blood using various other meri bloods. Orcs are included

#

that said, it's worth noting that it's very common in-universe to call Orcs beastfolk. this is generally considered to just be a racist classification, tho

sweet plume
unkempt tide
sand flume
raw grail
#

Well, that one's also a theological classification

raw grail
sand flume
#

I think it's more that goblin-ken worship malacath cause he's the god of outcasts, and goblin-ken are intelligent (certainly enough to have faith) but outcast from societies

#

other than that connection, goblin ken seems to be more of a biological thing, same as men mer or beastrace

#

something interesting is that pge1 refers to orcs as goblin ken and it was written during the rule of tiber septim, pge3 which was written after orcs regained their place in society, doesn't make this connection

plain cosmos
obtuse summit
#

well clevermen were exist in nord culture, shalidor is the greatest human mage in tamriel.

#

goblin-ken used as slaves in summerset island according some books, forgot which one. are they easy to breed like common goblin fantasy trope? 🤔

edgy rivet
#

Cleverness or brilliance comes to all of Nirn's children. Except the mudcrabs.

obtuse summit
#

mudcrab is true ruler of tamriel 🙂 you can't deny their right.

high forge
#

Is the reason why the Dunmer consider Azura, Mephala, and Boethiah to be "good daedra" more to do with the three being truly good, or more because the Dunmer have some kind of positive bias to those three for whatever reason?

I mean, isn't Boethiah the Lord of secret plots of murder or something? How is that "good"??

gaunt bear
plain cosmos
#

They are the Good Daedra, because they are Good to the Velothi

#

Azura, Mephala and Boethia taught them the pillars of the Velothi culture

brisk perch
#

Whether they are good or bad is a matter of opinion for most of them, same for other spirits.

plain cosmos
#

Except for Talos. He's just bad

obtuse summit
#

Ah usual mer propaganda sip mead

brisk perch
#

Some of them could have been literally demonized, too, by being on the losing side of a war of manifest metaphors, or relating to what power they stole/obtained during life/after death.

#

I.E. enough people believe a Daedra is X, they literally become X. Same with Aedra, Magne Ge, and others.

plain cosmos
#

Mythopoea doesn't seem to work that way in TES, as much as some wish it did

brisk perch
#

It's mixed it seems, sometimes it works that way, sometimes there isn't enough to override the existing reality.

edgy rivet
#

I get a headache when I see the whole "Well its just depends on your perspective"

plain cosmos
#

I mean... Welcome to the reality of ethics

#

Hard laws are a little easier to express without subjectivity.

edgy rivet
#

Nah, it just turns into "Its just my perspective" Say this as I'm committing horrible things and warcrimes across Tamriel

pastel sorrel
#

They embrace the harshness of their lives and environment and gods as tests to be overcome.

#

Boethiah is, to simplify, the prince of Darwinism. But that encompasses both just unrestrained survival of the fittest (see their tournaments pitting warriors against one another, and assassination plots to expose weakness in one's defenses), but also cultivated progression (ordering Veloth to lay down his weapon upon reaching Morrowind and lead his people as a healer, not a warrior).

#

Mephala is nominally associated with sex and murder, but she encompasses rather the dichotomies those and other things can involve.

As known in the West, Mephala is the demon of murder, sex, and secrets. All of these themes contain subtle aspects and violent ones (assassination/genocide, courtship/orgy, tact/poetic truths); Mephala is understood paradoxically to contain and integrate these contradictory themes.

#

Creating a nuanced control of those themes, which suits the Dunmer just fine.

#

Azura's role is less clear, but likely by nature. She represents transition, liminal spaces. More arcane and philosophical perhaps, but no less a necessary part of the Dunmer, since progression is what they're going for

#

And then of course the Bad Daedra which are more overtly considered tests. But also navigating the Good Daedra is just as much a part of things.

obtuse summit
#

Isn't azura all about prophecy? so dunmer can better to prepare against any difficulties?

pastel sorrel
#

Prophecy as well, but usually only in a pinch. It wouldn't do the Dunmeri way service to just hand them stuff like that on a silver platter

#

It's alleged she did provide advance warning for Red Year so more lives were able to be saved in time, but probably something like an invading army in a different context would be up to the Dunmer themselves to watch out for and prepare for.

obtuse summit
#

I think dunmer really have well designed cultures and philosophy.

split pond
#

What race lore-wise is the closest to the Spanish culture?

obtuse summit
#

nibenesse probably? 🤔

high forge
#

Hey question... If aedra means our ancestors and daedra means not our ancestors, what language does aedra and daedra belong to?

pastel sorrel
high forge
pastel sorrel
#

Because they're directly established as Aldmeris words and Draconic has different words for them

#

No Draconic has shown up in any of the games pre-TES5 aside from Alduin's name and stuff like the thu'um.

high forge
#

Yes yes but how sure are you that they are Aldmeri? If you can put a number on it, how sure are you of it?

pastel sorrel
#

... Again, it's directly stated they are Aldmeris terms. It's 10 out of 10.

high forge
#

Gotcha. Thanks.

pastel sorrel
#

Potentially stemming from Ehlnofex and such, but they're definitely not Draconic. Draconic has a similar word which may stem from the Ehlnofex as well, but there's zero indication it's the origin, aedra and daedra as we know them are firmly associated with the elven language branches which had nothing to do with the dragons.

high forge
#

I've always thought Aldmer are English speakers, or whatever it is we call the language of humans.

pastel sorrel
#

no

#

Modern Tamrielic and Cyrodiilic and such certainly have etymology from the Aldmeris branches

#

but it's not the same language

high forge
#

Gotcha. Thanks comrade.

pastel sorrel
#

Bearing in mind that anything even showing up as English for us is somewhat of a LoTR-style translation conceit as opposed to being literal.

split pond
#

Is there any race that was inspired by Spanish culture?

pastel sorrel
#

There may be very specific elements in a culture or two here, but none of the known cultures are overtly Spanish in influence.

split pond
#

Thanks

high forge
# split pond Is there any race that was inspired by Spanish culture?

Tough question...

Imperials are like the Spanish because they venerate the Imperial monarch, much like how Spanish kings and queens were venerated in Spanish history.

Bretons are the same way, perhaps even more so since they venerate monarchs as well.

They are also perhaps much like Imperials (as I already said) because Spain was an incredibly colonialist and sent soldiers towards distant lands to spread Christianity and Spanish culture.

We may even consider the Spanish to be Nord-like since the Spanish, like England, had a long tradition of being seafarers. The Nords, or Atmorans, were seafarers.

pastel sorrel
#

None of those are specific to the Spanish though

high forge
pastel sorrel
#

Actual Spanish influence would be stuff like naming and aesthetics and whatnot at this point. Everything you just described is already due to influences from their other respective IRL cultural influences

#

The Nords are seafarers because the Norse were. The Bretons are monarchists because guess what most of medieval Europe was

#

The Imperials are colonial because, yep, the Romans were. Even the whole emperor thing is just swapping out a caesar for a monarch.

obtuse summit
#

so nibenesse like greek? 😮

#

and colovian like macedonian? 🤔

glacial scarab
#

No.

Colovians Roman-Slavic
Nibenese Roman-whatever influences are left from the Tsaesci.

split pond
#

Akavir was Japan

plain cosmos
#

Akavir WAS cool. Summerset WAS Japan

#

Now Akavir is just East Asia

edgy rivet
#

I didn't question it at the time but you'd think a race like the High Elves would get more then just an Island.

plain cosmos
#

Well, it's a big island. Somewhere between the size of the British Isles, and Japan

#

Plus, at one point they were also the dominant people of Cyrodiil to boot

pastel sorrel
#

Plus a third if you count Arteum.

edgy rivet
plain cosmos
#

Tamriel IS their continent

#

Others are just invaders

edgy rivet
#

Humans>Elves and what is Arteum again?

pastel sorrel
#

Home of the Psijics

edgy rivet
#

Oh them.

plain cosmos
edgy rivet
#

Ahh yes, the "Humans are boring" trope sigh

plain cosmos
#

It is quite an unfortunate trope. And yet, here we are

#

TES in particular could have bucked the trend. And yet... Vikings

plain cosmos
#

Humans in fantasy don't HAVE to be boring, though they often are. This isn't exactly intentional of course, as people tend to try to make them familiar and relatable, drawing on real world inspirations more overtly than with non-humans. But 99% of the time they lack the historical, social and cultural knowledge to actually flesh out those direct parallels, creating a boring reflection OF them instead

glacial scarab
gaunt bear
plain cosmos
obtuse summit
#

men always changing, not sure how you could said they are boring. in the past, there's no breton or imperial. I think men have faster progression than mer. nothing can stop their passion or ambition.

plain cosmos
#

Boring, because of the cultures and styles we've encountered. Or rather, the lack there of

obtuse summit
#

I rather called it familiar or mundane. that's just me tho.

plain cosmos
#

If they were at least more developed than just the one dimensional, almost memes that they are? Sure. But as it stands, Nords are just 'Vikings' without even the nuance of a coffee table history book

#

And Imperials are just 'Rome' according to Hollywood

#

And it's a notable step down from the Dunmer, who were a combination of influences from almost half a dozen different cultures.

glacial scarab
#

Imperials had more but that stuff never makes it ingame and then TES4 happened

#

The races in general are not meant to be just one culture thing from Earth. It's just not everyone can be the devs favourite like the Dunmer are.

plain cosmos
#

I don't think it's a matter of favouritism. I think its more a... General direction problem from those making the decisions

#

Oblivion and Skyrim were deliberately more 'familiar', in the words of I believe Todd Howard.

#

And in making them familiar, they lost... Basically everything that made them distinct and interesting

obtuse summit
#

the price to appeal more audiences. not every players have interest in lore. most of them just want to simulate "living in fantasy world".

glacial scarab
#

I mean favouritism plays a large part as to why no one is ever going to be on the same level as the Dunmer.

Oblivion was doing its very best to not do the Imperials which is why they're such a mess.

plain cosmos
#

Don't get me wrong, they're fun enough games. But a living world? Not even remotely

plain cosmos
#

Since then, there's no reason to put the same work in. At least, not until they're threatened and need to prove themselves again.

obtuse summit
#

what are you considered as living world then? I am not sure what you mean because every NPC in skyrim or oblivion have daily schedule or interacting with other NPC.

plain cosmos
#

Though I suspect most of that work had a lot to do with three names in particular...

plain cosmos
#

Schedules just make for movement. They don't make it alive.

obtuse summit
#

Pretty much alive for me tho, like how cyrodiil feel like center of empire when imperial guard patrol everywhere, there's temple of every divines in the city and small shrine in the wild for daedras. like how the arena represent warrior side of imperial culture and the academy for the scholarly side.

glacial scarab
#

I would not say TES4 did anything for Imperial Culture it's one of the things that's painfully missing.
Also the Areans were planned in every city so even in the Nibenese cities.

Though TES does seem to want areans in every game. Vivec had one, Cyrodiil would've had one in every city and Windhelm had one cut

plain cosmos
#

TES is devoid of Culture entirely. Which at least puts Skyrim above it

#

It's like they just thought having a church in every city was a substitute for... Well, anything.

glacial scarab
#

I know TES4 originally planned for each chapel having its own chapel top which is why the two variants are named Akatosh and Stendarr.

plain cosmos
#

It was a single town, and a few castles, in an otherwise colonial frontier.

#

Where were the Legion fortresses? The noble estates? The hamlets and villages?

#

The heart of the Empire shouldn't have felt like some untamed forest infested with goblins.

obtuse summit
#

That's pretty unrealistic in game to make it as big as lore told.

glacial scarab
#

I know the Imperial City did get cut back.
Like The Imperial Legion Headquarters got merged with the prison District and the Green Emperor way was merged with the Imperial Palace District.

plain cosmos
#

No, it isn't. Expecting a full size Cyrodiil would be unreasonable.

glacial scarab
plain cosmos
#

Which, really, is more of an overall design problem with the games... They could make them just as big, but focused on a single County/Hold, and do the same.

#

While diminishing less. But they're determined to push the Whole Province schtick...

#

I mean, hell, ALL of Oblivion could have taken place on the Imperial Isle, and still been as big a game space

#

Between the various city districts, the sewers, the surrounding noble estates, and Imperial hunting grounds, there would have been ample opportunity for variety

#

But that's somewhat tangential and not my general point

glacial scarab
#

You can scale it down like you don't need 1000 cults ingame within the Imperial City you just need enough for that if you play through it you'd get the feeling that the Imperial City would be very diverse in Religions but TES4 is one of those things I don't know if it was deadlines or console limitations.

Like you can see the original plan for stuff that includes Elder Council Questline, Leyawiin that spans the Niben mouth, Arenas in every city (IC arena is reusing Chorrols per the asset name), Each chapel having a unique top for its god and probably others I forgot about.

plain cosmos
#

I blame Lord of the Rings

#

Whether or not the rumour is true, it's impossible NOT to see the influence LotR had on Oblivion. And not for the better

glacial scarab
#

I think it's probably a manpower thing. TES4s Art style has the issue in which LOTR took quite a bit of influence which gets obvious with the Legion which is using full plate now instead of the Just the "Imperial Guard" (the ones that Protected the Emperor and their representatives) that has Rangers/Legion Foresters running around the wilderness.

Towards the manpower thing I think I recall hearing that 1 person did TES4s dungeons.

plain cosmos
#

BGS remains remarkably small, for a AAA studio

#

That is definitely true.

#

But, like... Worldbuilding isn't that time consuming a task. Give me a week, and I could redesign every single ethnicity in Tamriel, with at LEAST 3 major cultural groups each.

#

But, like the PGE1, none of that matters if you don't actually do anything with it

split pond
#

Note that Redguards also have inspirations from East Asia (the Ansei, Way of the Sword, Shehai) and Arabia, so they're not a one to one comparison with North African culture.

plain cosmos
#

They have inspirations from Japan, the Ottomans, Persia, Egypt, and the Carribean. With some Central Africa and some Polynesia in there too

#

I fully expect them to just be Arabian Nights, come a Hammerfell game

split pond
#

Right, Imma gonna make me a new TES race based on the Iberian peninsula and its colonies.

glacial scarab
#

Yokuda is straight up Japan if I recall before TES3 and beyond went and gave it to everyone

plain cosmos
#

I don't think Yokuda even existed before the PGE1

split pond
#

What's PGE1?

split pond
topaz dome
split pond
#

Thanks

balmy salmon
#

There's also Japan (Rimmen).

jovial monolith
#

Does anyone have any idea what the lyrics are to the song "Past defines future"?

#

From Summerset in ESO

#

Also do you have any idea what language they are in? I know the lyrics to the dunmer songs are in Ald Chimeris

pastel sorrel
high forge
#

At any book or NPC dialogue in Skyrim, was the Arena champion in Oblivion ever mentioned? It doesn’t matter to me if the Arena champion is the hero of kvatch himself or not. I am just really curious if he is ever alluded to in Skyrim.

We have the well-known Sheogorath who is the hero of kvatch, and then in Skyrim’s thieves guild the gray fox is mentioned…

obtuse summit
high forge
obtuse summit
#

And i think we're done with CoC being sheogorath, it's pretty much debatable.

pastel sorrel
#

As for "and i think we're done with CoC being sheogorath"... we're not? I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that everyone's generally agreed it's not a thing, the game pretty directly implies it after TES4 already set it up which is why it's still talked about.

obtuse summit
#

I mean its never confirmed he is CoC or not, so people can think whatever they want. When sheogorath said he was there in oblivion crisis, he probably refer to shivering island DLC.

glacial scarab
#

Exactly who inuniverse could confirm it?

obtuse summit
#

That's what i thought, so let's done with the discussion about it.

brisk perch
#

Sheogorath from ESO can confirm it through their Mage's Guild dialogue.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sheogorath
||Chataeu of the Ravenous Rodent||
Also, we fans should remember that canon is decided by the creators/owners of the story, not the fans. Even if we do not want to believe something to be true, or something to be heavily implied, it does not change reality. We do not have CHIM IRL.

Online:Sheogorath
high forge
raw grail
brisk perch
raw grail
#

that's just referencing the pattern of Sheogorath Mantling himself. that's nothing to do with CoC in particular Mantling Sheogorath

#

i could be wrong, but i don't believe anyone was disputing the idea that the Shivering Isles resulted in a Mantling of Sheogorath - just that CoC was the one to do it

obtuse summit
raw grail
#

why "probably" instead of "possibly"?

obtuse summit
#

i don't know what difference. i am still learning.

raw grail
#

(just to clarify, i'd interpreted "probably" as meaning "i find this to be the most likely option")

obtuse summit
raw grail
#

whereas "possibly" would be more like "this is one option. there are other options"

#

not really giving a stance on which is more or less likely

obtuse summit
#

then i should change it to possibly. 🙂

raw grail
#

fair enough egirlNod

#

from my understanding, there's three main camps that people sit in:
a) the player characters do the main story and the main story of major DLCs, but we don't know who did side quests. could be the player, could be someone else KS_AniShrug kinda up to you
b) the player characters do the main story of the base game, and DLCs that specifically mention or necessitate the player character. side quests are the same as (a). examples of DLCs the player character would do in this theory: Tribunal, Dragonborn, Dawnguard, Knights of the Nine(?). examples of DLCs they wouldn't necessarily do: Shivering Isles, Bloodmoon(?)
c) the player characters did everything. i don't personally put much stock in this one, just to be upfront 💀 i feel as if sharing this one without mentioning that would be misinforming people, but i feel as if failing to mention it would be missing too large a number of people

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i personally sit in camp (a)

obtuse summit
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me too.

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sheogorath's personal change maybe because he is no longer have to worry about jyggalag again.

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tho he is pretty much antagonistic in TES legend story.

plain cosmos
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Sheogorath doesn't really go through any change though. And his references are to vague events that any Daedra paying attention to Cyrodiil at the time would likely notice.

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Plus, the nature of Mantling as described in the few sources we HAVE kinda invalidate the potential for any such change anyway

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Ultimately though, the quote in question confirms nothing, especially given its source.

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While Oblivion largely ruined Sheogorath by making him the toothless funny man we've dealt with since, he's STILL a god of madness. His word has about as much value as Talos'

obtuse summit
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Looking at TES Skyrim and Blades, shegorath become more funny wacky guy. I guess he got more popular with that trait.

obtuse summit
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what if the lore will become more appeal to general audience. so it's a bit generic for old fans.

raw grail
raw grail
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compare Morrowind to Oblivion

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imo Skyrim has some pretty wacky and deep lore, if you look for it, but on the surface it seems a fair bit more generic, too

(that said, i still think that TES has largely kept its wackiness, it's just started tending toward subtlety)

plain cosmos
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I am of the opinion that TES has largely squandered it's worldbuilding potential in favour of shallow, generic tropes which have one the whole resulted in a continuous degredation of the overall product

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Skyrim is an improvement over Oblivion, that's true, but Bethesda has utterly failed to show the level of worldbuilding as Morrowind since.

plain cosmos
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There's still immense potential, but some serious effort needs to be invested in realising that potential

jovial monolith
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Does anyone know if mer can hear better than humans? I saw somewhere someone said that it's confirmed in the lore but I have yet to verify that. It was in regards to physiological differences between men and mer. Are there any differences besides affinity for magic/physical appearance?

plain cosmos
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I'm not aware of any mention of it. In general, even the affinity for magic is somewhat dubious, given the nature of the cultures in question

jovial monolith
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What do you mean

plain cosmos
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It's just as likely that Merish magical trends are a product of social trends and cultural norms, and not ingrained biological characteristics

jovial monolith
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I mean they have highborn and other gifs

plain cosmos
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Especially given the... Well, rather lackluster explanation FOR them. We're basically given 'Elves are magical because we say so'

jovial monolith
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Well it's because they were decended from aedra and not created by Shor/Lorkhon

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Allegedly

plain cosmos
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So are Men though

jovial monolith
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Um no men are created by Lorkhon

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You should read up on the lore a bit more

plain cosmos
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Not according to the Ehlnofex explanation. Men and Mer are simply two different sides of an ideological conflict between the Old Ehlnofey and the Wanderers

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The latter sided with Lorkhan, the former with Auriel

jovial monolith
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I see. Well Maybe Auri 'El is more powerful or something.

plain cosmos
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Even the Altmeri creation myth only has Lorkhan SHAPING the spirits which would become Men, not creating them outright

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Most information we have clearly indicates that all life, Men and Mer and everything else, descends from the Ehlnofey.

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Well, except the Hist... But those trees are weird

jovial monolith
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Either way it's hard to deny the highborn gifts. I doubt the magical affinity is just related to cultural reasons.

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I'm not saying it's not a factorb

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Because it probably is but I don't think it's the sole reason.

plain cosmos
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I totally disagree. What we've seen gives no indication of an inherently biological characteristic.

jovial monolith
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There's also the life span differences which I forgot about

plain cosmos
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In fact, the tendency for other populations to produce just as potent, or even more powerful mages, would argue against an inherent advantage for Altmer

jovial monolith
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Also there's been a huge amount of powerful mages of mer origin. Theres a handful that are non mer but most seem to be of course mer

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Though I do think a lot of that actuallt circles back to the lifespan thing

plain cosmos
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Of the 6 most powerful mages we know of... 2 are Altmer. 1 is Chimer turned Dunmer. 2 are Nords. 1 is Imperial.

jovial monolith
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Mer have more time to learn and perfect magic

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Which mages are you speaking of?

plain cosmos
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Galerion and Mannimarco. Fyr. Shalidor and Azhidaal. Abnur Tharn

jovial monolith
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You're forgetting Iachesis

plain cosmos
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I suppose we could put Sotha Sil on that list as well, though we don't know much about him before he became a god... And that's cheating

jovial monolith
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Sil goes on the list

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He was said to be an extenely powerful mage even before they messed with the tools and heart

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Eso expands upon that a lot.

plain cosmos
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Fair, I had forgotten about the Psijics, since I have zero respect for their organization

jovial monolith
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The psijics are also mostly altmer