#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 53 of 1

prime marlin
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im going to be honest i think age ranges on consoles is quite rediculous

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the issue for bethesda games on the switch isnt age range its power

fickle snow
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Now I'm wondering. Do you know of any Dwemer-themed Skyrim build like a D&D artificer?

prime marlin
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the switch processor never runs at 100% speed and does more then nvidia ever did with it with the shield

orchid thicket
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Nintendo back in the early 90's would not do M rated games. They had an entire lawsuit with Sega over Nighttrap and that it was evil

prime marlin
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but it wouldnt be able to run fallout 4 much less starfield

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thwt is more noa then nintendo itself

orchid thicket
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Then later the spokesperson at the time said Nighttrap would never be on a Nintendo platform. Fast forward to today and it's on the Switch on the rerelease toddleaks

prime marlin
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hahaha yes

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hes also the reason we have doki doki panic mario bros 2 isnt he

orchid thicket
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Probably, Nintendo was hit and miss back then. id Software before Doom apparently got Mario Bros 3 working fully on a PC at the time but Nintendo rejected it

prime marlin
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i thaught it was smb not smb3

orchid thicket
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Probably that then, memory is a little fuzzy on that one

prime marlin
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i find it funny the great giana sisters sequal was a nintendo exclusive

orchid thicket
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Until recently id had a full on N64 exclusive Doom game with extended lore on the universe. Until recently because Doom 64 came to every device in a rerelease

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Nintendo went through a wild time of not doing M rated games to allowing them

prime marlin
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and then publishing conkers bad fur day themselves and paying for a big e3 booth with alcohol

orchid thicket
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I wish Rare stuck to Live and Reloaded being, Live, Reloaded and Uncut

prime marlin
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rare doesnt have alot of the people anymore

orchid thicket
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The remake was suppose to uncensor everything, but ended up censoring more

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I spoke with a Rare dev maybe back in late 2015 maybe. Pre-Sea of Thieves and I asked about Conker

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I was at College, I'm a nobody with contacts lol

prime marlin
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awesome

nimble pond
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Well before they did Live and Reloaded, they pretty much had the plot already written for Conker's Bad Fur Day 2. It's on the interwebz somewhere

fringe path
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Base stats should return but work like Fallout 4 not Oblivion

eager remnant
weak sapphire
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I suspect. And while an improvement, i still think it's better to integrate Attributes directly into the standing Perk System.

Have various Perks give you a point in an associated Attribute, which then serve as numerical modifiers for various interactions, and as gating for non-Skill Perks.

weary quiver
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I just passed an 8 agility speech check in fo76

trim horizon
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Seems kind of a repeat of Fallout 4 i'm going to be honest

noble verge
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My problem with the old progression system is that encouraged grinding to ensure you maximized gains every level.

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And the fact that the HP gain from Endurance is not retroactive.

fast scroll
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I've got mixed feelings about 'perk system', but shoot, at least FO4 brought back 'attributes'. Though it didn't bring back many other gameplay elements so they weren't as useful

fringe path
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Yes

fringe path
weary quiver
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Yay I slightly increased my power from speech skill 62 -> 63

weak sapphire
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Skills as a mechanism for leveling is fine. It means you have to actively be DOING something to level

fast scroll
weak sapphire
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But as the primary mechanism for character stat progresson? Nah

weak sapphire
fast scroll
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Turned based? That would mean I have only really played action RPGs 😮

weak sapphire
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I'd argue that Dragon Age is still more traditional RPG than Action, given its party dynamic and cooldowns

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But that was originally the line. Like most original lines, I'm not sure how much it applies anymore

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But conceptually, you want character systems to work together, not compete against eachother or exist in isolation.

This was a problem with Attributes and Skills in previous TES games, and still exists in most tabletop games.

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Skills should represent what you've spent your time doing. Perks, what you've learned over that time. And Attribues, how those lessons have impacted you physically

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So, using Skills as the primary progression mechanism works fine. Perks then become the meat of your character stats, accessed through that progression. And Attributes become a rollover from those character stats, which can be used to 'Learn' things outside the concepts of the Skills

fast scroll
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I think what I take issue with it having only health, magicka, or stamina to increase each time I level up when prior games gave you more ways to improve

fringe path
fast scroll
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Uhh, right back at you

weak sapphire
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One Perk Point. Thats it.

fringe path
weak sapphire
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Much more naturalistic than arbitrary EXP

fringe path
fringe path
fast scroll
fast scroll
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The problem with some of the things I wish Skyrim had is that if you put them into the game now it wouldn't really serve much, one being 'Personality' (which would complement the Speech skill).
Speed on the other hand, which would be character movement speed, would work now and is really a no-brainer. Even if it were small, incremental increases to this, it would be personally satisfying to have.
Not sure what sneak movement speed would be governed by if it were considered; an automatic Sneak skill progression benefit, a perk, or maybe an 'Agility' benefit.

weak sapphire
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Agility and Speed have too much overlap for my tastes anyway

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Speed is a component of agility, afterall

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If we stick with equal Paradigm concepts (Warrior, Thief, Mage) then 6 Attributes should be fine.

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Strength & Endurance
Agility & Personality
Intelligence & Willpower

fringe path
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Speech should have been split 3 or 4 ways

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Ordinator fixed it tho so it's all good

fast scroll
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One thing I wish I could have done from the outset was improve a character's ability to intimidate people. It's not immediately apparent how things like this works

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How you interact with people isn't so simple of a thing that it can be boiled down to success doing one particular element of speech means you're better able to do them all

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That kind of goes back to generic exp. In fallout you can 'level up' proficiency with weapons you've never even touched, seen, or even heard of before

weary quiver
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Speech system needs to be improved so there is more purpose in a city and out in talking to npcs, like a tabletop rog. Oblivion was on the right track

weak sapphire
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A good speech system in these sorts of games is hard. It needs to be able to facilitate relaying information, complex scripted scenes, relationship building, stat integration....

fast scroll
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I wouldn't mind some more superfluous stuff like something set aside for swimming. I wouldn't have it compete with or impede anything, just be there for people that want it

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Probably the last major thing I would like is some sort of climbing, scaling for platforms, buildings, terrain, etc. Maybe BGS doesn't really like world design that would make it fit but it would be neat, imo

nimble pond
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I like attributes/stats, but skill checks are just annoying as heck. If they could find another way around it, that'd be great.

nimble pond
fast scroll
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It's tough because people will feel they need things like more maximum health while wanting to focus on skills that have nothing to do with health/taking more damage

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It just might be the line I would still be willing to draw. If you want to be tougher, do things that make you tougher and not focusing completely on persuasion (for example)

nimble pond
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Skills are a bit odd to me sometimes in their mechanic. Mainly the grind concept. You don't get more skill advanced in something simply by doing the same slash over and over and over.. (more so you would just stay at the same skill rank), you progress by more advanced learning and knowledge in that skill and experience with it (time). With that, I always felt there should have been some sort of system for skill perk advancing besides just grinding xp to level. Like actually having requirements for each perk, that way if you want to skip to the top of the skill tree for a certain perk, you can, in whatever order you choose. Tho there might still be some perks in which are connected and thus you still have to learn the first one in that grouping to unlock the rest. But I think the xp is fine, like if you use one-handed weapon on enemies you accumulate one-handed skill xp since you are spending (time) on that skill.

fast scroll
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It's funny that I'm reminded of the quote that I think is attributed to Bruce Lee, hopefully it's not butchered too badly. 'I don't fear a man that has thrown a thousand punches. I fear the man who has thrown the same punch a thousand times.' It's funny because that is really all you are doing. But more to your point I agree total mastery of an art isn't simple.

To that point, I actually feel I level up weapon skills too quickly. Maybe I'm in more of the minority but I feel the opposite of needing to grind, because I don't want to be considered adept/an expert/master so quickly after just starting the game. I want the masters to be on a mountain peak that I can only gaze up at down below, even the experts should feel a bit out of reach.

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I would enjoy more involvement in increasing those skills

nimble pond
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Nice Bruce Lee quote 👍

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And true, because you can basically become a two-handed master for example just by performing the exact same attack on a NPC tank over and over and get all that skill tree perks simply by performing the same exact attack grinding xp. Can do the same thing playing legitimately, only it will just take more time, but that's essentially what it is.

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But basically they have attributed player stats into skills and perks and I like how they did that. As far as HP MP and SP go.. I associate that more as a player thing rather than character like how the skills/perks are.

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But I def think there could be room for improvement with the hp mp sp mechanics and leveling. Since it's basically the player's connection to their character in performing most of our actions thru them

weak sapphire
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Abough HP, MP and Stamina. If you're using the Perk-linked Attribute system, it's relatively easy

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As i said, such a model you could use Attributes as gating for non-Skill perks. For instance

High Pain Threshold; Increased HP by 2 per Willpower.

Gating is 5 Willpower for each rank, max rank 5. So, in order to max out the Perk, you'd need to have unlocked 25 Willpower through other, Skill driven perks. And at Max level, it would give you 50 extra HP in this example (numbers don't matter and can be tweaked to balance)

On top of that, you can ALSO have an Endurance driven HP Perk line;

Indomitable; Increase HP by 2 per Willpower.

Same rules as above.

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This gives you 2 approaches to increase your HP, but also means that to unlock all those HP bonuses, you're looking at being a MINIMUM of level 60 (50 for the standard Perks that give you the Willpower and Endurance, and than 10 additional levels for the HP perks themselves). So there's lots to build up toi

fast scroll
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When you say attributes would be a rollover, what would that translate to in the character's progression?

weak sapphire
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For instance. You take a Rank of Armsman in 1-Handed Weapon. That gives you 25% increased damage with 1-Handed weapons, and 1 Strength.

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Strength it's self, doesn't do anything, you already got the bonuses from that point in terms of the damage. However, it can then be used as a gating mechanism to Strength related Perks not related to Skills, that can draw from that Strength Pool directly. For instance;

Crushing Blows; Increase all Melee Weapon damage by 10% per point of Strength. Gated at 5 Strength per Rank, max 5 ranks.

cinder idol
weak sapphire
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Which you could totally do. On advantage to this sort of system, however, is you can distribute various Attribtues across all kinds of Skills

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For instance you could have a Marksman Perk called; Hold Draw; Decrease Stamina consumption while drawing a bow by 10%, 1 Strength.

cinder idol
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So, to get the best strength possible you have to max out all martial perks, even unarmed? If the same goes for magic, spells will be ridiculously overpowered given the amount of magic schools including enchanting and maybe alchemy. In this case, spells would either be the very best skill or if it's made to not be so strong, magic will be weaker in comparison at the start. This seems to only incentivise the "100 in every skill" thing people hate about Skyrim.

weak sapphire
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If you implement a Level Cap, then you don't have to really worry about that.

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But, on the flip side... Who cares? If someone wants to invest the time into mastering everything, why not let them?

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If they want to grind out the 200, 300, 500, 1000 levels it takes to actually get every single Perk, why shouldn't they be allowed to?

cinder idol
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Oh, thank goodness Dyno didn't get huffy about the word "gimped"...

weak sapphire
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Yeah, which is why i also favour independent level scaling. Not strict encounter zones like The Witcher 3, but a dynamic system which will scale an areas spawns around independent parameters, to make the difficulty areas constantly shift

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But that's a whole other discussion

frail zealot
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Hey guys.
Does buying Blackwood Collector Edition makes you a Collector owner of all previous expansions? (Would you get all the items) or not?
If not, can I buy the previous items in the shop? Or were they time-limited?

cinder idol
weak sapphire
eager remnant
frail zealot
orchid thicket
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Crowns stack, there is no time limit per month. If you get the 3,6 or 12 month packages you get that timeframes amount in one go

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I had 84K once. I use to save before they added a Dwemer House, well a few lol

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I did want to hit 100k but too late now. I'm at 5 rn

plush sapphire
frail zealot
plush sapphire
frail zealot
plush sapphire
plush sapphire
frail zealot
odd mural
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Unofficial poll: What is your favorite elder scrolls?

weary quiver
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I have a hard time answering which is my favorite bgs game

orchid thicket
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Dawnstar

eager remnant
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My favorites in the main series, ranked from most favorite to least favorite:

  1. Skyrim
  2. Elder Scrolls Online
  3. Morrowind
  4. Oblivion
  5. Daggerfall
  6. Arena
magic tundra
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ESO isn't part of the main series

eager remnant
quartz nimbus
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honestly it's a spinoff only because it's not BGS and it's not a single player rpg but as far as content is concerned it blows pretty much every other title out of the water

magic tundra
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then you have a weird way of separating main series from spin-offs

orchid thicket
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I'm all for titles that show and never have it explained. So Dawnstar

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For BGS/main titles then it's be Morrowind, but only because of Tribunal

magic tundra
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For me it's Skyrim
mostly because of the large freedom regarding mods

orchid thicket
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That is a good point. I wanna make a Morrowind mod for some fun

quartz nimbus
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while i have gone back and played older titles in the series, skyrim is my favorite because it was my first and its modding community is unparalleled

magic tundra
orchid thicket
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I've spent maybe 5 mins in the Morrowind Kit only to find what Yagrum Bagarn is called in files

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No search bar is eternal pain

magic tundra
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tbh I am talking about skyrim RN

orchid thicket
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oof

nimble pond
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Regardless of genre, TESO is still a part of the TES franchise/universe. Same as Blades, Legends, TESA: Redguard, etc.

weary quiver
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Eso is button mash barrel rolling mages, perfectly fine game genre, but spritually not really tes

quartz nimbus
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it's undoubtedly a spinoff but it's also undoubtedly a fully fledged title in its own right and does definitely deserve to be considering a "proper tes game"

prime marlin
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eso plays like an mmo with a tes skin and pulls it off pretty well

odd mural
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Online is probably my least favorite of the “modern games” just because it feels too much like an MMO. I still think it’s a good game but I don’t think it’s the elder scrolls that made it a big game series

prime marlin
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it is an mmo and it feels like one

floral abyss
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Hi all, anyone know what the next event will be ?

magic tundra
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Event?

sour flax
fringe path
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I just wanna know the limits of the CE2 so I can temper my wishes and expectations accordingly

magic tundra
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the what?

pearl fractal
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who can turn me into a vampire?

quartz nimbus
quartz nimbus
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mmmmm actually jk. the one there is more for like. updates and such

magic tundra
quartz nimbus
magic tundra
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He did me, several times

cinder idol
fringe path
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Help me out I don't read Portuguese

violet lily
fringe path
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Oh

finite sandal
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After reading the rules I could not determine if fan fiction stories were allowed to be shared here or not. Would sharing a Elder Scrolls based story be allowed?

nimble pond
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I've seen someone else here do it before without problem

dim reef
steep spire
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Honestly I wish ESO had better questing, but its plagued by the usual MMO-tier "go here, kill 12 of these things and 7 of these things, while you're at it, go grab these things and kill this harder enemy"

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Mind you I have yet to get into the expansions yet, but once I clear the main story and whatnot I'm doing it in order

quartz nimbus
eternal tapir
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Morrowind had you as a not-obviously chosen one, Oblivion had you as the errand boy for the real chosen one, and Skyrim shoved it in your face the whole way.
I don't know any other RPG that does this, but the idea of having the player not being the chosen one YET sounds interesting - the main story and the quests alluding and building up to this future threat, and allowing for a wider variety of stories to be told and better roleplaying opportunities in the meantime.

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A system could then be made for ES7 that reads your 6 save file data - depending on what factions you allied with, who you're married too, and what weapons you have, etc. It would influence the lorebooks that discuss the crisis from between the games..

eager remnant
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Actually, Morrowind tells us in the very beginning of the game that we are "Chosen". And it could be argued that the Emperor's dream implies that a higher power placed us in that cell, choosing us for our role in the Oblivion Crisis.

Skyrim did not "shove it in our faces the whole way". On the contrary, Skyrim is the most subtle of the three games in this regard. Our character, and everyone around our character, assumes in the beginning that we are just an ordinary person caught up in larger events. Unlike Morrowind or Oblivion, there is no indication that we are anybody special. We do not find out we are special until we help Irileth kill Mirmulnir.

As far as the save game idea goes, it wouldn't work for me. I play a lot of very different characters and I invent my own backstories. I suppose I would not object to the idea if it were optional, and if it did not take much development time and money to implement.

quartz nimbus
quartz nimbus
noble verge
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Dagoth Ur seemed to think we were Nerevar.

magic tundra
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IIRC, the ashlanders believe that each Failed Incarnate lends strength to their claim of the legitimacy of the prophecy, as if it could be anyone that fulfills the requirements and does the respective tasks

fast scroll
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I like making the "you have been chosen" into anything. I have had few Nerevar characters anyway

noble verge
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Many fall but one remains
The failed incarnates were foretold by the prophecy.

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Something worth pointing out is that by setting foot in Morrowind you've already met the criteria for the First Trial of the Seven Visions, and the first part of The Lost Prophecy.

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And it is this point, when running errands for the Blades, that Dagoth Ur contacts you, long before you're ever made aware of your own role in the Nerevarine Prophecy.

quartz nimbus
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Deciding the PC was born the Nerevarine is still kinda deterministic though. It's antithetical to the agency both the developers like to implement, as well as the actual mechanics of time and prophecy as we understand them in the franchise, which is to say nothing is definite or fixed until it comes to pass. My Morrowind memory is shaky, but iirc there's nothing saying Dagoth Ur only contacted the PC. It's very possible it's basically a general announcement system for any prospective Nerevarine.

eternal tapir
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It would require a lengthy timeskip but only act as a nod to the player character from ES6... and if the player doesn't own it those history books would have randomly generated content on their between-game chosen one shenanigans

quartz nimbus
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I meeeaaaan if it's just for the purpose of filling in a lorebook, there's not a lot of incentive to retroactively create a system to read past game content to inform the current one. If anything (and I can really only see this happening if the past PC matters at all to the current narrative), you'd likely self-report this info in-game and have it populate when necessary

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Dragon Age did that too in the form of dumping you into the character creator to recreate what your DA2 PC looks like for their appearance in Inquisition, instead of trying to read data from a game in the previous console generation, and convert the character assets from that game to the new one.

fast scroll
# quartz nimbus Deciding the PC was born the Nerevarine is still kinda deterministic though. It'...

I'd argue nothing is really definite even if you follow the paths the developers laid out. Not just in the fact no two playthroughs will be the same, but the freedom is still there to mess the main quest up. And no one can really tell you your game experience doesn't count or "doesn't play by the rules". Maybe your canon is that the "prophecy" is shattered and made to be just a fictitious story very early on.

quartz nimbus
# fast scroll I'd argue nothing is really definite even if you follow the paths the developers...

Undoubtedly, but when discussing the canon as established by the developer, you do need to maintain a baseline otherwise those conversations are entirely meaningless. In my Skyrim playthrough I never touched the main quest so my character is not Dragonborn. But if we're evaluating Skyrim as a game, the consensus from both the community and the developers is that "the main character is Dragonborn." I'm arguing that the information presented in game lends itself well to the theory that the PC is not determined to be the Nerevarine until they actually fulfill the prophecy, as opposed to having been the Nerevarine since before the game even starts

fast scroll
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Yes, the theory about developer intent is a conversation worth having, for sure.

quartz nimbus
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Well this is less about intent and more about what is firmly established in Canon. It's a tricky conversation, but if we remove developer intent from that discussion of Skyrim, the canon still stands that the PC is Dragonborn

fast scroll
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The problem with having a baseline is the nature of the series at large. Once you dive deeper into the lore you quite easily see the unreliability of people's accounts, and also pretty wilder things such as everything is all just a dream 😆

magic tundra
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REM playing in the background

quartz nimbus
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Of course, but that doesn't mean a conversation can't be had, you just have to approach it like actual history where sources are critically examined for reliability and authenticity. Things can be retconned or tweaked later to inform that history but it doesn't mean a canon cannot be established

fast scroll
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It's definitely not a reason to not talk about these things, whether it's events the player character can experience (or not experience) or something from a book. Objectivity in the series has major and inherent challenges, that's all. What you end up with is mere accounts on what may happen/have happened/be happening. What this turns into is a universe where you can decide if things are left mysterious, ambiguous or if you have a solid timeline with concrete histories. Or something in the middle. But what one person has decided for their game(s) won't override what other people have decided. Even this doesn't betray the lore

quartz nimbus
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I'm not sure I totally agree here. I can say my Skyrim PC is not the LDB and that can be wholly consistent with my "personal canon" (which is already a super nebulous topic to discuss), but my Skyrim PC who completes all non-MQ/DB content not being the LDB absolutely betrays the established lore of the series. Even with unreliable narrators, even with retcons, even with things left intentionally ambiguous, there is still a story there with definite truths (based on all material currently available). I can't say "the Dark Brotherhood doesn't exist in Skyrim because I ignored them entirely and they didn't appear at any other point in the game" and expect people to just accept it as canon

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Just because a question can be left with multiple answers due to the intentionally ambiguous nature of the premise, does not necessarily mean that all of those answers are actually correct. I'm not saying that's the case with the Nerevarine thing, but a lack of concrete info doesn't make any headcanon factual, it just means it cannot be disproven as a theory

fast scroll
quartz nimbus
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I'm giving an example. Apply it to any other event/faction/character in the game

fast scroll
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"I heard rumors Vivec was taken by the daedra."
"No he wasn't, I killed him"
These are just some examples that demonstrate my point

quartz nimbus
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You're kind of demonstrating mine. You're establishing your personal canon, but that has no bearing on the Canon. Your theory can be that your PC killed him, but that doesn't make it true or untrue until it's given to us in game. There are still definitely truths in this franchise that can't exactly be written away by personal canon and expected to be accepted by the community

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This is also becoming a really pedantic conversation when the premise was simply "does the content of Morrowind give more credence to the theory that the Nerevarine is born, or that he is made" so I think I'm gonna disengage from this one

fast scroll
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No, I'm not demonstrating your point, but denying it on very specific grounds. You are arguing for a capital 'C' canon and I'm saying there are inherent issues with treating anything as an official, marked with the BGS stamp of approval canonical history.
Having something presented to us in a game wouldn't override what you did in the previous game, no matter who says it does.

fringe path
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It's interesting to hear this perspective since so many in the TES community seem to hate being a "Chosen One"

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I have no issue personally most of the time I kind of ignore the Chosen One role

fast scroll
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Yeah I skip and ignore the Azura opening sequence most of the time

finite sandal
cinder idol
weak sapphire
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Crimson Paladin and I have had this out recently, and I'm nit going to drag that out again... sufficed to say that i think Morrowind as ambiguous as a rock to the face.

But of the last 3, Skyrim is the ONLY one that does not mark you out as special, in amy way, until you're already a few stages into the main quest.

Morrowind calls you Chosen before you even learn the controld. Oblivion has the Emperor stroke out after seeing you, and then has him explain the entire ending before you even make it out of the tutorial dungeon.

Skyrim doesn't even bring up the Dragonborn until you're 3 or 4 quests in (depending on how you approach the Dragonstone). If you turn south, you can easily fit hundreds of hours into the game without even so much as seeing a Dragon, let alone discovering you're Dragonborn.

It is, of all the main games (Arena and Daggerfall included) the least in-your-face about being special, at least until you choose to directly engage with the main questline.

fast scroll
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I can only guess that when people say being Dragonborn is thrown in your face from the start they have to be influenced by the buzz and discourse surrounding the game. Or they beeline it to where each of the main quest beats are triggered

weak sapphire
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Most likely.

It WAS made very clear that the Dragonborn was the 'Big Thing' in Skyrim, and the Marketint drove that home.

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But when you actually get down to the details, you get through the intros and tutorial of every previous game with at least some sense of 'You are important'

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You get through Skyrims with 'Holy crap, that Dragon took out a whole town'

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Unless you pay attention to the Marketing Material, ir, you know... know anything about video games.

eternal tapir
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It's a fun idea though

weak sapphire
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Anyone who thinks you're just some errand boy in Oblivion simply wasn't paying attention

fast scroll
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I remember originally being so dissatisfied that I didn't get a final boss to defeat in combat in 4. I ended up stocking up on 'absorb fatigue' equipment and poisons and going back to battle Mehrunes Dagon in the final quest and turned him into a puddle of mass to feel accomplished.
I have a different outlook on it all now, though. The PC is still the main character/lead actor in the plot, but he is very much part of the 'team'. I sort of see it as the 'Septim team'

weak sapphire
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Yeah. Without the HoK, Martin is nothing. but without Martin, the HoK has no purpose

cinder idol
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It's understandable that some may be unhappy with being unable to fight Dagon properly but at least for them the 2 main DLC end in boss fights, one with another Daedric Prince...

eternal tapir
cinder idol
eternal tapir
spice whale
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pretty sure Blades would have managed Oblivion crisis just fine, as Martin was both the brain and secret weapon, of sorts. the only indication that our hero was the chosen one (ish) were dead Emperor's *words * about the dream. Uriel have already convinced one prisoner they could become a Nerevar reborn, why not do that again? was only lucky coincidence the prisoner this time was so easily manipulated and had some degree of skill. Hah, he said "gods have put you in this cell", when for real it was some incompetent bureaucrat

weak sapphire
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Again, you don't become the Nerevarine.

Add to that the Blades are incompetent, and wouldn't even have made it out of the sewers without help, let alone saved Martin...

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Without the HoK's intervention, the Blades die in the Sewers, word doesn't reach Jauffre in time, and Martin dies in Kvatch.

nimble pond
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I like to look at it with different roads and events to the same result

weak sapphire
#

Kinda stuffing the square peg in the round hole to do that

#

I mean, that is a good storytelling approach, but its ultimately not what we have in the games.

humble agate
#

Random thought was lookin through some of the tes legends card art thought hey I'd like to see a larger phisical release of the cards

dim reef
#

Companions should be able to die. I dislike that in skyrim they only die by you and in 4 they're straight up immortal save like 3 (danse, deacon, and x6).

But, companions just straight up dying in a hectic fight is lame and annoying. So, there should be a bleed out state, when the timer ends they die, if you heal them before the timer they stay alive.

last vessel
#

Some skyrim followers die to enemies or traps. Some are essentially unkillable.

I've definitely lost Lydia a couple of times to standing in traps.

#

And having a bleedout thing would be annoying, because I can't always find where a follower has gone down, especially if they've jumped off of something into a trap and are now stuck somewhere essentially inaccessible.

fast scroll
#

I think it's a problem for followers to die too easily since there are only so many companions you can have. They aren't infinitely randomly generated npcs out there that will replace them

#

That's the downside of having only handcrafted characters available

nimble pond
#

🎣

orchid thicket
#

Pogfish

ivory acorn
#

with all these re-releases of Skyrim, tes6 better be mind-blowing next-gen god-level good.

orchid thicket
#

I'd think the same of GTA VI

#

Except Rockstar add a bit more to do in the remasters

#

Skyrim has only 1 remaster that restored tiny bits of content. By default you can get the hood from that imperial guy in Helgen's dungeon

ivory acorn
#

look at how cyberpunk promises you the world and bombs so hard till this day.
if tes6 need couple years to be polished then so be it.

weak sapphire
#

Hah... Bethesda... Polish...

#

I'll believe that when i see it

orchid thicket
#

What's a polish

#

Never heard of it

ivory acorn
#

at least at the time when Skyrim was first released, it kinda delivers what it promised and if not more

weak sapphire
#

Only because they kept the promises so low

#

Basically all the promised was shouting, and dragond

junior kettle
#

tbf skyrim was originally marketed as having every village having an economy and how you can mess the economy up or improve it

#

and release Skyrim has no economy what-so-ever because gold is the easiest thing to find and quests just hand out large sums of gold at like level 30

magic tundra
weak sapphire
#

That said, i was always highly suspect of that claim, as I'd never heard of Bethesda licensing out their engine.

junior kettle
#

yea the only games that use the creation engine are Skyrim, Fallout 4, 76 and Starfield

magic tundra
#

with starfield using Creation Engine 2

weak sapphire
#

Here's a question... does the cost of engine development really justify not just using Unreal or Unity?

#

Average development cost for an engine tiday is 100-400m. Unreal charges a 5% fee after 1m in sales.

#

Even at the low end, the fee on using UE would be less than the expected cost of developing your own in-house engine.

eager remnant
weak sapphire
#

I suppose for 3 games it may be justified

magic tundra
#

why spend much money buying a completely new engine when you already have a perfectly fine engine that just needs a little tweaking here... and a new feature there... and some modernisation of this... and a rewrite of that... oh, now that we've spent so much money on modernizing this engine, we gotta use it

weak sapphire
#

Roughing out the numbers, the fees for UE would have been about 180m across Skyrim, FO4 and FO76

#

So if the development was on the low end for tje engine, it would absolitely be worth it

#

Especially when you count DLC and mtx

#

Ultimately, its the difference between a focused engine, and a versatile one. UE4s developkent cost has bee estimated to be 500m, but its an engine designed to work across basically every sort od game type.

Creation is a much more focused engine, and really only does 1 type of game. So i assume its costs are much lower.

#

Still, it needs a lot of work.

orchid thicket
#

Game engines cost alot and take alot of time. Making a brand new one or adapting an existing one you don't own is a pain. Creation Engine allows for modding kits to become available since Bethesda own it.

#

For some devs it is viable to just use Unreal or Unity especially if you are indie

#

It's a duopoly

#

The Call of Duty engine is based off id Tech 3

#

Although BGS had kits for Gamebryo, but I wouldn't know much on that

tidal glen
#

Greetings everybody.
Does anybody know if the recently announced Skyrim: Anniversary Edition will add a performance mode or a fix for the notorious low framerate of the PS4 PRO edition?

fringe path
#

Nobody really knows much other than the fact they're making CC stuff mostly free

fast scroll
weak sapphire
weary quiver
#

skyrim never advertised trains, a complete scam

#

beth has licensed their engine to at least one game

#

and skyrim never really 'advertised' dynamic economies, like a misleading scam cgi cutscene trailer showing a dynamic economy, it was something todd mentioned and said it was cut. honesty and communication you dont get from other developer we all know

last vessel
#

Dynamic economies are hard.
Especially where the player doesn't really interact with what should be the bottom half of the economy. You don't generally interact with the fruit and vegetable economy to any great extent, you're not generally carrying and selling the cheap clothing out of dungeons etc.

weary quiver
#

renaissance and colonial trading companies profited on a simple economic concept, buy stuff cheaply where its abundant and ship it to places where its scarce and sell it expensively

#

still the basis of our transportation system today

magic tundra
#

remember, this is a dungeon-crawler RPG, not a trading simulator

last vessel
#

Oh sure. I think part f the problem in games is getting other economic actors to react sensibly to what a player does, and another part is players often working on a different economic scale to most other economic actors in the area.
The player is handling weapons and armour worth hundreds or thousands of gold/septims/crowns, but most people you meet are handling vegetables and clothing worth at most a couple of gold/whatever. Or worse, you get the D&D "economy" of previous editions where players are working in essentially bags of gems, and most people are working on a few copper pieces for bread and beer.

weary quiver
#

starflight and suikoden 2 had dynamic economy, not really sure if its that hard

quartz nimbus
#

games are a bunch of moving parts. what may be easy to implement in one game may not fit nicely in another for a myriad of reasons

weary quiver
#

and if beth is afraid its exploitable, i can craft a potion of poison resist frost i sell for 3000 gold i make with a snowberry and flower

last vessel
#

Having it be properly dynamic is hard, rather than having it just be "X gold was added to the economy, all prices change by Y", which is the sort of thing (sometimes a little more complicated) that several games have done.

weary quiver
#

i would like a dynamic economy with gold sinks, like exorbitantly expensive equipment and ingredients

quartz nimbus
#

i think that was the intention of houses

weak sapphire
#

Dynamjc economies aren't hard to do, they're just time consuming to set up.

#

All you need is a measure of production vs consumption, a mechanism for shifting those values, and a multiplier for differences in those values.

#

The time consuming part is categorising items and setting actual values

brisk plank
#

The main thing missing is supply and demand. It wouldn't matter if you can craft 100 potions worth 3k gold each if no vendors will buy them due to lack of demand / excess supply

fast scroll
#

Yeah I don't really think of just trading goods for the currency as an economy. I think of that, how the system handles scarcity

weak sapphire
# fast scroll Yeah I don't really think of just trading goods for the currency as an economy. ...

It is though, its just... not a good one. It's the absolite bare minimum you need for an economy, but that's it.

The problem is, aside from very rare goods, no individual is going to be able to just sell enough of X to disrupt any sort of decently functional market system.

So if you want a decent economic dynamjc, it neess to run independent of the player themselves, and instead serve as something they interact with rather than control.

magic tundra
#

tbh I don't like the idea of the player detrimentally affecting things
I just want to play the game, and not constantly think about the consequences of every little action (I have that in real life already)

#

for that same reason I didn't like when Bioware announced that the player would be able to drive certain specieses to extinction in DAI by overhunting; I'm glad they didn't implement that

weak sapphire
#

This new edition of Skyrim thing is reminding me why i hate video game journalism

#

Bethesda announces a new anniversary edtion of their best selling game of all time, complete with a load of extra content?

"Beth milking that cow dry!"

#

Capcom releases yet another unaltered port of RE4 on a new generation of consoles with absolutely zero additions or changes?

"ALL PRAISE CAPCOM"

neat hawk
#

Anyone knows if Anniversary edition comes also in a physical retail copy?

weak sapphire
#

That i have no answer for. Haven't bought a physical game in a decade, I'm not even sure whats physical and whats not anymkre.

#

In fact Skyrim may be the last physical game i bought...

fast scroll
#

Agreed, I'm looking forward to hearing more details about the upcoming release

weary quiver
#

i feel like i am playing in a time machine when i switch disks between fo4 and fo76

#

nintendo and sony flexes their advertisement money at gaming sites and 'journalists', its that simple. thus the glowing gushing review over every sony exclusive cut scene filled game and zelda/mario rehash

fast scroll
nimble pond
#

I was wondering. Since Hammerfell isn't a part of the Empire anymore. Do they still use gold coins/Septims as currency? Multiple forms of currency?

prime marlin
#

he was a person struggling with depression and substances whos doing alot better now having been sober for several years

#

who wrote minecraft story mode

magic tundra
#

is that a question or a statement regarding MK?

prime marlin
#

no its a statement

magic tundra
#

interesting

#

but I didn't know minecraft had story in the first place xD

prime marlin
#

he wasnt on anything when writing morrowind but he wasnt in the best mental state

#

its on netflix because it is a telltale game

magic tundra
#

there are games on netflix?

prime marlin
#

a game thst is so unintersctive it can be converted to a interactive movie

#

its basically a movie you can control

#

like all telltale games

magic tundra
#

so it doesn't actually have anythign to do with the actual minecraft game

prime marlin
#

nope its just a game thst has minecraft blocks and a story made gy kirkbride

weary quiver
#

did he write the lusty argonian?

prime marlin
#

theres several writers for bethesda but the lusty argonian maid is not even the most explicit

#

the real barenziah in daggerfall was uh… definitely a book

nimble pond
#

madness often accompanies genius, like cheese and crackers..

nimble pond
brazen dove
#

What would happen if sheogorath and the joker met?

noble verge
#

Depends on Sheogorath's mood, probably.

wide garnet
nimble pond
fast scroll
#

Certainly the most cheesy writing

last vessel
#

Sheo meets the Joker?

Joker forgets the next two days, and wakes up on the roof of the Imperial Palace, next to a stack of assorted cheese wearing a fetching two colour suit.

Sheo has meanwhile acquired some white facepaint because why not...

weak sapphire
#

Sheo sees a kindred spirit, and skins the Joker to make a cloak so they'll alwayd be together

#

The burns said cloak because he's boring now

viscid plover
#

For Elder Scrolls 6 I think it would be kind of interesting if the prison you were escaping in your intro was the soul cairn.

last vessel
#

Staked out naked in the desert by bandits.

orchid thicket
#

I hope if we get Helgen 2.0 we can rebuild it

#

Be cool to run a small town or something

#

There's a mod for that I played once

last vessel
#

Helgen reborn?

orchid thicket
#

I think that was the name, yeah. Was ages ago

#

I didn't have a gaming rig back then

last vessel
#

That'd be a nice one to have built in if we've got an equivalent start - like it'd be nice to have a "rebuild the western watchtower" thing.

orchid thicket
#

Nice to choose who your town stands with

#

I think in Helgen Reborn I went with independant tho

#

I find Helgen in general is the least visited location after the tutorial. Nothing but Bandits there after

last vessel
#

I end up going through it a couple of times. Usually when following Barbas.

#

But yeah, there's not a lot of reason to go that way, especially if you can fast travel.
Without fast travel I might go that way more often because it's on a semi-convenient road.

cinder idol
weak sapphire
viscid plover
cinder idol
last vessel
#

It's a Plot Point of the setting.

weak sapphire
#

It's been constructed into a mythic plot point about the PC's ability to choose their destiny

last vessel
#

And yes, in Arena you're a literal prisoner, for Daggerfall you're sort of a prisoner, shipwrecked in a cave/dungeon.

weak sapphire
#

But anyway, Sotha Sil goes into details in ESO, but the Prisoner with a capital P has become a major narrative point in the franchise

last vessel
#

Sure. I have to admit to not paying too much attention to the Daggerfall start and the implications.

#

Soul trapped, with the gem being shattered and a "friendly" power making you a new body could be interesting.

weak sapphire
#

Depending on waht the wider context is

last vessel
#

"Trapped for a hundred years, your body is long since dust. But I can remake you. I can give you another chance. Swear to be my champion, and live once more..." 😄

#

Then hilarious levels of betrayal and counter betrayal of your patron.

final quartz
#

anyone know if rapport on the same companion that i use on multiple characters carries over on all characters? or is it character bound the rapport gain/loss?

wise vessel
final quartz
#

thats very grind enducing but good to know thanks

magic tundra
#

rapport is per character, experience is per account

fringe path
#

Mentioned in Fallout and Starfield but some companions should be able to betray you if their affinity falls too low

#

Some would have the threshold higher or lower than others etc

trim horizon
#

I have altitus.
And I am currently planning an Altmer Sorcerer born under the Atronach

#

I get weird ideas sometimes

mental elbow
#

Epic companion gear drops is horrid .. I got like 4 pieces in the first couple weeks and nothing since .. and I pretty much have the companion out all the time .. something is broke IMO ..

cinder idol
#

How do companions even work in ESO? Do you make your own and name them like the Pawns in Dragon's Dogma or are you stuck with finding a particular premade one?

spice whale
#

you find a specific location, talk to a quest giver, do quest with the quest giver, and thankful quest giver sticks around with you afterwards. they're characters, have morals and stuff. dunmer Mirri hates it when you kill bugs ._ . how cna one possibly go fishing with her

prime marlin
#

they take up a player slot in an area but get despawned when an actual character needs that slot

magic tundra
#

You can customize their gear appearance and equip them with special items and skills

nimble pond
#

So what's all this about The Wayward Realms and ex-devs from early TES titles? What's it gonna offer that TES doesn't? Or is it gonna be more of a direct competitor of TES (but on the more hardcore RPG level, opposite of Skyrim basically)?

weak sapphire
#

It's going to be Daggerfall 2.0

#

So, really, really big, but lacking much in the way of substance

brisk plank
#

Impossible to say until it's actually out.

last vessel
#

It would be nice if they make it so you don't face weapon immune creatures without a guarantee of something that can hurt them.
The ebony dagger for dealing with the imp in the DF starter dungeon was eminently missable.

trim horizon
#

Personal goal: Somehow get Patrick Stewart to recite the Daggerfall intro. lol

brisk plank
#

The somehow: Just ask him. He's pretty cool like that.

trim horizon
#

I wonder if he answers tweets

last vessel
#

I don't think he does directly, but I believe his agent is very willing to pass things along.

dim reef
quartz nimbus
nimble pond
#

Technically, there are still a lot of things you can't be or do, even in more current games.

quartz nimbus
#

I generally evaluate an rpg based on three factors:

  1. Can I be gay?
  2. Can I have a cat?
  3. Can I dress like a himbo?
last vessel
#

To be fair, there wasn't really any way to get any action as a straight character in Daggerfall either. A bit of a lose-lose situation all around.

You can't have a cat, but you might be able to (sort of) be one.

And I'm sure there were fabulous outfits in Daggerfall hiding under the 4 pixels...

weak sapphire
#

That's not to say it was a bad game, not by a long shot. Daggerfall was my introduction to the series, and i love it to this day.

But on any critical examination? It's really not as deep an RPG as it's bigger fans like to claim

quartz nimbus
#

And by my point I mean @weak sapphire’s point

last vessel
#

It'd be nice (if complicated) to be able to play an Alfiq in something. But unfortunately it'd be a nightmare to make things playable at Alfiq scale and normal man/mer/beast scale.

quartz nimbus
#

I would love a race/breed expansion to the franchise tbh

#

Add in reachmen and maormer. Add different fur stocks of khajiit and other argonian forms

fast scroll
weak sapphire
#

And in that regard Daggerfall is fine. If you're relying on your imagination, then a bunch of skills that have zero impact on the game are perfeclty acceptable.

#

I expect more out of my video games, however. A little filling in gaps where needed is one thing, but relying on my imagination to actually make an RPG, well.. An RPG? That's something else entirely. I might as well play Minecraft and pretend i'm developing skills

fast scroll
#

If you really, really liked that aesthetic I suppose lol

cinder idol
cinder idol
trim horizon
#

Ah nice. I'll look into it

violet lily
#

could see if he has a Cameo thingie

#

lots of actors use that and you can basically pay them for a short audio/video thing of your choosing, depending on how they have it set up

brisk plank
wide garnet
spice whale
#

oh, companions also react on surroundings a lot. 'ooh, cozy fire let's cook some fish', or 'ooh creepy crap! let's get outta here"

magic tundra
#

You can adjust the frequency of companion remarks in your settings

#

I'm fine with mirri, just Bastian guess on my nerves sometimes

spice whale
#

yeah, i don't 'buy' Bastian's kind hearted attitute. he's a ruthless killer, might as well stop pretending how he cares about the poor

#

Bastian is to the left

#

oh, yeah, found myself using these companions as another cosmetic for my chars <.<

magic tundra
#

He's delusional
Always thinks I'm giving up thieving...

spice whale
#

oh my! never took Mirri to Morrowind. i wonder if she has special commentaries there

quartz nimbus
#

bastian is my preferred companion but it is annoying having to put him in time out when i need to commit atrocities

spice whale
#

he ought to suspect something, someday

quartz nimbus
#

nah i say there are books and to go fetch

#

he comes back and i'm draped in pilfered jewelry and my backpack is near bursting but he found a book

cinder idol
weak sapphire
spice whale
#

brought Mirri to Lord Vivec. nope, zero reactions

severe lance
#

Here's what I don't get. Why did Bethseda remove underwater combat from their games? Why did they remove the breath meter? Yet still require us to go in there for quests and stuff? Like, okay water combat wasn't the best, but why remove our ability to defend ourselves against slaughterfish while swimming? What did completely removing that at all add to the game?

#

I have a feeling that they're still going to leave out underwater combat in TES VI

cinder idol
weak sapphire
# severe lance Here's what I don't get. Why did Bethseda remove underwater combat from their ga...

Because, it creates a different environmental consideration.

With underwater combat, water is just like on land, except you can move vertically. Encounter a problem? Just kill it. No worries.

By removing underwater combat, not only is it more realistic (go ahead, swing a sword underwater. I'll laugh at your attempts to hurt something) but it also forces you to take into consideration other things. There;s a shipwreck down there, do i want to explore it? What if there's Slaughterfish around? How do i get out of there?

#

Removing underwater combat actually increases the range of thought processes that interacting with water allows.

floral abyss
#

Hi try taking a Butterfly with Mirri and see what she says about that.

brisk plank
weak sapphire
#

To an extent, maybe. But water still behaves like water in TES.

brisk plank
#

Until magic is involved.

#

The concept of the Waterbreathing spell is being able to breath water as though it were air. All you need is a spell to the same for locomotion underwater and now you can move through water as though it were air. Like magic the problem is solved.

weak sapphire
#

Sure. But we have zero evidence of such spells in the setting. Could they be included? Sure

brisk plank
#

We don't need evidence of such spells in the setting. Anything is possible in that universe.

weak sapphire
#

So, we're to assume that literally everyone automatically has enchantments that allow them freedom of movement underwater?

brisk plank
#

Don't be daft, please.

#

It's simply the wrong game and setting to be arguing realism in. Starfield is more what you're looking for.

weak sapphire
#

Fine, i think that's splitting hairs, but the other point still stands

#

Not being able to fight forces you to change your thinking under water. Rather than it being lazy levitation with a crappy filter over your screen

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

Yeah, like... You use realism to inspire believable interactions in order to facilitate the suspension of disbelief. You can bend the rules, sure

fleet vine
#

Ohh Lachdonin. I remember you from the forums

weak sapphire
#

I considered a new name, but i figured it would be too sneaky

dim reef
#

to make trainers more useful, they should have to be used to get better sometimes. i'm not saying you can't improve your skills without them, but instead let's say starting out, to level up a skill by using it you must use trainers to get that skill up to level 10 or 15. it's not a lot of level increases and makes them more useful than they are already (basically just a skip function).

or, trainers can be instead required to gain perks rather than leveling up a skill like the above idea. i like both and the idea of both being used together would be the best imo since after you get that skill at 10 or 15 trainers are no longer useful again and are instead just a skip function. but having it where they also are required to gain perks would make them useful late in the game too.

and also, we can make it where you do gain perks via leveling skills up from 25/50/75/100 but to get more perks (such as the ones like in skyrim) you'd need to see trainers.

last vessel
#

A problem with needing to pay to get those first few levels of skills is that it makes it painful to get skills that aren't in your racial package.

dim reef
#

that's why classes could make a comeback. or something similar to where you pick a certain number of skills that will boost them up past the 10 or 15 mark. or maybe at 15. depends, but either way choosing your skills should come back.

last vessel
#

Then it applies to "starting to learn skills that aren't in your class" is painful as well.
Remembering that with almost any class you had in previous games there were always extra skills that you wanted to start learning as quickly as possible to be well rounded.

dim reef
#

well when you make a build, typically you work within the sphere of that build. as you progress you can start to level up the skills via trainers. i think it works and such, but could also just go the perk route. but like i said, i like both together.

last vessel
#

Yes and no.
Picking starting skills you were actually going to use was often a bad choice in Oblivion, because it meant you levelled ineffectually and could make the game harder by levelling up.

And not all builds had enough skills included to "work" out of the box. Having to pay a substantial amount early game to even get to a point where you can learn the basics of a skill doesn't help that.

#

Maybe having to see a trainer to be able to move from "novice" to "journeyman" to "advanced" to "master" skill might work though, because at least you can get basic competency in not stabbing yourself to death without having to rely on a tutor.

prime marlin
#

and heres the other issue what if all trainers happen to die

dim reef
#

make trainers either protected or essential. protected would be where only you can kill them (and if you do, well, that's your consequence). but also there'd (ideally) be a few trainers that train within the same skills like skyrim, oblivion, and morrowind has done before.

also, dread, that's why picking skills you were going to use wouldn't be a bad choice. skyrim fixed this issue where ineffective leveling isn't a thing most the time, not nearly as bad as in oblivion.

prime marlin
#

now both of those options would make people upset

#

because everything makes people upset

dim reef
#

you can't please everyone, so oh well.

#

plus protected wouldn't make nearly as many people upset. for some reason, people get upset at essential npcs, they don't seem to mind protected ones so much.

last vessel
#

I guess some of it depends how many skills per class you give out that are at "don't need a trainer" - but a paladin/templar build is very short on slots as they really need the full warrior set and restoration and preferably speech.

dim reef
#

heavy armor, weapon class, restoration, speech. that's 4 skills out of (if we go by oblivion) 7 major skills to choose.

#

oh and block, i guess. so 5.

last vessel
#

Block. And it needs both 1h and 2h to allow for different player styles if it's a prebuilt class.
It could do with Smithing as well.

#

Ideally, it'd come with archery as well, because not all foes are ground based.

dim reef
#

you don't need both 1 handed and 2 handed. and i'm not talking about pre-built, entirely player choice. unless they want to select a pre-built class which, ew.

last vessel
#

Classes always came prebuilt, and if they're in they'll need to be prebuilt for people who don't know what they're doing or are new to it, just to give some guidance.

dim reef
#

in daggerfall to oblivion you could always make your own class.

last vessel
#

Now sure, "build your own" is possible - but it isn't default where classes are included in most games.

#

And of course it's doubtful you'd get 7 choices - the skill list is smaller than it was for oblivion.

dim reef
#

Could expand in elder scrolls 6.

prime marlin
#

i just dont wanna be restricted

last vessel
#

Sure. But at that point we're looking at also needing more skills to fill out a build.
I was however more commenting that taking Oblivion's number of class skills and applying it to Skyrim's reduced list doesn't quite work.

dim reef
#

I wasn't applying it to skyrim's list. I was applying it in general.

last vessel
#

I guess it also feels like a step backwards to have classes at all. They very much moved away from that deliberately, in favour of not having you pigeonholed so tightly at the start.

Having it be completely free to level the skills you actually use is a lot more pleasant than being locked out of using the really good weapon you found early on because you can't level that skill without paying for several increases - and you can't afford to pay for the increases because the really good weapon you've found is the only really valuable item you've got.

dim reef
#

I guess. Either way trainers should become more useful. So i guess if anything, perks it is.

weak sapphire
#

First off, Training should be activity driven. If you're traiing witha 1-Handed Weapon trainer, you should actually be fighting them. Simply scale up the Skill EXP gain for that skill while you're training.

#

Second, you can make access to certian Perks gated behind particular trainers.

#

Third, honestly, to hell with the whole "uuuh, i can kill anyone" nonsense. Unless you can actually make the world react appropriately, it only serves to highlight the artificiality and minisucle nature of the game world.

dim reef
#

I don't like the idea of trainers purely for skills though. I much prefer either skills partially and then perks or just perks.

All they are for skills are a skip function. Interacting with it more is still a skip function as well, you can go do the same thing for free. But perks require trainers to be used.

weak sapphire
#

That's why i say have them activity driven and faster. They aren't a skip, but they're a quicker progress thing. At base, anyway

#

You can use the Perk access to build on their individuality and keep them relevant though

dim reef
#

You can just go get that progress for free though. Sure it may be a little slower but you aren't spending money.

weak sapphire
#

Yup. And some people would rather pay gold and go faster. That's the nature of the beast

#

It's like Potions, why would you ever buy a potion rather than just make one?

#

The goal should be to make them relevant across a wider number of character options, without making them absolutely necessary.

#

There is also a mechanical advantage to making their training Activity based, because it gives you interactions which can be used in other situations.

#

Puzzles, faction-progression challenges, quest objectives etc.

fast scroll
#

I think I would find underwater combat more of a consideration if it were for people very skilled with that weapon

spice whale
#

id support classes in two conditions, pretty please - Speech checks and Custom animations \o/ nightblade doing catwheels to illustrate one, "my healer's oath prevents me from doing harm but Mara's willing those fetchers shall pay with blood" to illustrate the other

cinder idol
# weak sapphire Because, it creates a different environmental consideration. With underwater co...

Underwater combat, when removed only makes me seek to lure a slaughterfush on land (yet still swim somehow unlike in Oblivion where they flop around) or abuse aggro to move them somewhere else if I'm not outright ignoring them and chugging potions. It would be good to have weapons that don't work underwater (bows, stupidly big axes etc.) but that doesn't stop bladed weapons with points, IRL Frogmen carry knives for a reason after all so ES sailors likely do the same if their weapon is incapable of thrusting attacks which don't slow as much as swinging it.

That being said the verticality it adds should be capitalised on and combat could be more thought based, if your knife is too short to pierce the hide of some sea creature, crushing it with the rotting mast of a ship you pushed to fall on top of it would be good.

prime marlin
#

shouts work

spice whale
#

shouts.. work underwater? .- . gods, what was i doing all these 2k something hours. just the other day a collegue of mine told its possible to mine by just hitting nodes, not activating them

fleet vine
#

I guess savegames from special edition will work on annyversary edition!

#

@weak sapphire i was RazielSR there

weak sapphire
#

Aaah, thats a name i recognise

stark rock
weak sapphire
sour flax
fleet vine
#

I asked on steam and people said we will be able to use se saves without problems

magic tundra
#

I trust Narathani and Cartogriffi more than "people on steam", but luckily, they're all saying the same things

fleet vine
#

True

opaque ingot
#

hail hircine

spice whale
#

were talking about underwater combat the other day. well, rejoice - starfield's gonna have whole planet covered in ocean. no way bgs would leave that place uninhabited

last vessel
#

You touch the water.... you die. Instantly. 😐

quartz nimbus
#

just like in real life

lyric burrow
#

Wait... So if I fus ro dah the water, does that mean I launch slaughterfish out of the river?

jagged pecan
spice whale
lyric burrow
#

Can they rag-doll?

spice whale
#

nope O__o shouting dont work when submerged, and all shouts disappeared from quick slots

#

phew, so i didnt miss on this thing in all those 2k hours played

lyric burrow
#

Can you shout while at the shore?

spice whale
#

standing on solid ground, yeah. dont feel like trying to shout them out from above though

lyric burrow
#

Hmm..

#

I wonder what the next Elder Scrolls will hold.

#

Mainly for the weapons and armor...

cinder idol
#

I hope the secrets from Blades show up in 6. They certainly make dungeons more interesting...

orchid thicket
#

Nate is back

#

EpicNate

lyric burrow
#

I do like the idea of different variations of the same type of armor.

#

As seen with fur armor in 5.

quartz nimbus
orchid thicket
#

His new vid is about The Greybeards

#

Haven't seen it yet tho

lyric burrow
#

I wonder if 6 will have optional variants of Khajiit....

grand oxide
#

Who would win in a fight? Level 100 Dragonborn (react with Shout ) or the level 100 soul survivor. (React with PowerArmor )

cinder idol
cinder idol
grand oxide
#

True

lyric burrow
quartz nimbus
#

i think seeing a few different furstocks of bipedal, man-sized khajiit isn't outside the realm of possibility

#

sadly we probably won't be able to play as an alfiq though

last vessel
#

The Alfiq and Senche may be a problem.
Maybe the Dagi, depending on whether they're quadrupeds or bipeds now.

quartz nimbus
#

Consensus is bipeds

#

They might be an issue though just because they're so small. I'm thinking the Pahmar will be an issue too since they're just. Massive

lyric burrow
#

Aren't the Cathay Raht the largest bipedal of Khajiit?

last vessel
#

That would go to the Pahmar-raht now they're huge rakshasa types.

lyric burrow
#

I think the Cathay-raht might be easier to rig since they don't have the cat-like feet and are still an average height to an degree... Obviously taller then other races to an point

last vessel
#

I guess it depends whether the Oblivion/Skyrim cats are Cathay or not. (Which I'll admit is the usual guess).

lyric burrow
#

The Pahmar-raht would be hard to add in due to an new skeleton and animations.

last vessel
#

6 would though presumably be reworking animations somewhat anyway?

lyric burrow
#

well. They would have to add an entire set of finishing animations because your an larger racer.

opaque ingot
#

but in eso, pahmar-raht are the largest bipedal khajiit

fast scroll
#

Epicnate's twitter feed is based and redpilled

quartz nimbus
fast scroll
#

There actually are no words for those in English

cinder idol
#

It means good but also right wing, often used in jest/ironically in regards to women's rights but doesn't mean it always is (best way I can explain it).

graceful ether
#

I love SKYRIM

toxic scroll
glossy trout
#

I'm surprised this server doesn't have a fishy stick emoji. Considering it's history among the bethesda forum community for 20 years.

trim horizon
#

Yeah.
UESP has the fishy stick.

sweet lance
#

That should be the next CC item in Skyrim

echo urchin
#

We definitely need more fishy sticks!

reef hedge
#

fishing better add it as a cooking recipe

weak sapphire
#

You know... ive never tried to make fish sticks...

#

I wonder what sort of breading would go best with Salmon Figers...

lyric burrow
#

Probably just stale bread crumbs and buttermilk.

weak sapphire
#

Hmmm..

#

i don't think i've ever cooked with buttermilk

wide garnet
weak sapphire
#

Yeah, i've just never had cause to use it really

#

I tend to cook very, very lean, on account of my mother's tastes. She absolutely hated (and i suppose still hates) being able to taste anything greasy

wide garnet
#

I’m working on something for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction and I’d like some input and/or opinions:

I’m saying that Molag Bal attempted to pull a First Blight-weakened Thedas into Coldharbour around the year -180 Ancient, which is also when Andraste and her followers first met the Vestige (the events of ESO). It was Andraste’s power and faith in the Maker (a.k.a. Akatosh) that helped make Molag Bal’s defeat possible, such as preventing the need of a sacrificial victim. However, when people started writing songs that gave credit to Andraste for Molag’s defeat, this started to bother the Vestige, which activated a “revenge curse” that Molag placed on him without his knowing. This would ultimately lead to Andraste’s death.

Here’s info on the First Blight, in case you need it:

https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/First_Blight

Dragon Age Wiki
First Blight

First Blight | Dragon Age Wiki | Fandom

weak sapphire
#

Within the rules and mechanics of both settings, i don't see any obvious problems with the idea

wide garnet
#

I’ve also got a few others that I’d like some input on:

I’ve said that the events of TES: Arena take place during Thedas’ Third Blight, with the Eternal Champion receiving aid from the Grey Wardens. This enabled Uriel Septim VII to escape from Oblivion without the loss of the Staff of Chaos. In return, Uriel gave an entire Imperial battalion to the Wardens for their counterattack. Ultimately, the Eternal Champion used the staff to “smite” (their word for it) the Archdemon at the time, weakening it enough for the Wardens to finish it off. Unfortunately, this cost the Eternal Champion his or her life, and also caused the Staff to return to Oblivion.

Third Blight info: https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Third_Blight

Dragon Age Wiki
Third Blight

Third Blight | Dragon Age Wiki | Fandom

#

The Fourth Blight took place during TES: Daggerfall. As part of the Dragon Break, the Champion of Daggerfall gave the Totem of Tiber Septim and the Mantella to the Wardens, who used it to wipe out most of the attacking darkspawn at the time and again weaken the Archdemon at the time, but Anumidium vanished (poof) before it could kill the Archdemon, prompting the Wardens to investigate after the Fourth Blight was broken. That was how they learned about the Dragon Break.

Fourth Blight information: https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Fourth_Blight

Dragon Age Wiki
Fourth Blight

Fourth Blight | Dragon Age Wiki | Fandom

#

The Fifth Blight took place during TES: Morrowind, with both the Fifth Blight and the Vvardenfell Crisis making each more… complicated. In it, Dagoth Gares is encountered at the Temple of Sacred Ashes for two reasons. 1. Dagoth Ur didn’t know if the so-called Sacred Ashes of Andraste (which have the reputation of being able to heal any ailment) could counteract the Curse-of-Flesh; and 2. He had his own intentions which would never be found out, since the Hero of Ferelden initially thought he was a Darkspawn Emissary and killed him. In the aftermath of Dagoth Ur’s defeat, Vivec, who had NOT been “slain by a wrathful, unforgiving Nerevarine”, was initiated into the Grey Wardens as penance for his role in Nerevar’s death.

Fifth Blight info: https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Fifth_Blight

Dragon Age Wiki
Fifth Blight

Fifth Blight | Dragon Age Wiki | Fandom

lyric burrow
#

I kind of hope the next game will have the option of an backstory creation...

eager remnant
lyric burrow
#

I just like the idea of creating an custom backstory for my characters... Would be fun if there was an feature to assist in that.

fast scroll
#

I have a feeling clothing layers will be in both games as they were brought back in FO76

lyric burrow
#

I honestly wouldn't mind about clothing layers, since it would show us wearing something like casual wear under our armor...

#

Meaning unique variations of outfit ideas for players to come up with.

cinder idol
#

Visible equippable belts. They weren't in Morrowind and adding them into 6 would be good. Also more ring slots.

lyric burrow
#

more ring slots, belts would be good, being able to look down and see your body...

#

...And maybe different intro tutorials.

#

Keep the prisoner/captive intro for tradition, but have other options.

spice whale
#

oh yrah, 'true first person camera' in bgs games is something i wish for too. wouldnt want more rings though, and would actually prefer if there was sone limit on equipped enchantments. walking around all shiny and sparkling gives wrong impression about the world

lyric burrow
#

I would want atleast two rings.

#

And limitations on the enchantments is always a good idea, but the first person camera of being able to look down and see myself would be good for roleplay reasons..

cinder idol
#

There is something I love about taking enchantments to their extremes, like the Flame Ring from Oblivion that prevented fire/lava from damaging you or a bunch of gear that ups your max health or armour to crazy levels.

fast scroll
#

And yes the inspiration is from DA:O

lyric burrow
#

I was mainly thinking an backstory and an intro choosing, traditional prisoner, or something else, like entering in some other term, or start out in a town.

fast scroll
#

They could really get creative with The Prisoner

spice whale
#

to go against ttaditon? unthinkable!

fast scroll
#

I know, it's despicably modernist of me

lyric burrow
#

Keep prisoner as option...But I would like to see maybe an new form of entering an elder scrolls game... Like traveling without an criminal record.

spice whale
#

i know what would be novel. if game lets you serve time instead of just pushing out <3 imagine Oblivion, where you close the door behind Uriel and lads and continue your penance

fast scroll
#

I'd like talking about this more but I must sleep. This is a great place for discussion, there's many smart people here including from the forums and the forums before those.
Basically I'm on the side of maintaining the Prisoner as the PC. I would like the form this takes and part of the province this happens in to be different depending on what you want your person to be and come from. I think it's important to the game to keep the Prisoner, and I think they should take "be whoever you want to be" to the next level, making the beginning hours as a unique character establishment AND character building experience, make it as meaningful as the things you do and choices you make in the wide open world of Hammerfell or Hammerfell + High Rock.

prime marlin
#

the prisoner is a metaphysical thing

magic tundra
#

Still, it is tradition that the player starts out as a prisoner in some capacity
Only Daggerfall breaks with it

barren pebble
#

If we meet one of the old PC's in later games I hope they make them hard to tell what gender and race they are so it doesn't really change anything (besides tHoK because he's supposed to be Sheogorath I'm pretty sure)

wide garnet
barren pebble
weak sapphire
#

I think having Heroes disappear from history afterwards is a better solution

#

I mean, it's even addressed directly in Before the Ages kf Man

barren pebble
#

Yeah you're right, it keeps things less confusing for newer players too

weak sapphire
#
  • Also during the Late Merethic Era the legendary immortal hero, warrior, sorceror, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again. *
last vessel
#

Now there's a way for the age to end. Pelinal comes back somehow and kills everyone for having been nice to an elf at some point in their lives. 😄

barren pebble
weak sapphire
#

Not the analogy i would use, but not an incorrect one

quartz nimbus
#

good morning or else

wide garnet
noble verge
#

Speaking of heroes coming back, I recall hearing that one of the original plot ideas for Skyrim was for Uriel V to return from Akavir with an army of dragons to retake his throne.

orchid thicket
#

Todd said that yee. It'd reveal too much about Akavir tho

#

He likes Mysteries

noble verge
#

I'm glad he didn't go with it, because I'd be upset if I didn't have a choice to side with him.

stuck wasp
#

ESO add ons seems a bit confusing, if i already own the base game (Tamriel Unlimited and Morrowind) which add on to buy if I want to get all previously released chapters, are they all DLC to be purchased within Crown Store or is it a separate add on that I need to buy ?

plush sapphire
stuck wasp
plush sapphire
stuck wasp
#

Xbox

#

ok i will then thanks

plush sapphire
#

Unfortunately, I am not all too familiar with ESO on Xbox, but support should be able to help.

weak sapphire
#

Ok, this is going to be a controversial opinion, i'm sure... And i'm not sure if it totally applied to Bethesda, given their track record

#

But any story told needs to be thought out and someone needs to ask "Does this deserve a focused game?"

#

Like, Cyberpunk 2077. Like The Witcher 3, the game was actually made worse by wasting time and resources on the open world.

eager remnant
#

I'm kind of inclined to think that, generally speaking, games with fixed protagonists (Shepard, Geralt, JC Dention) benefit from a more focused emphasis on story and setting, and less emphasis on Bethesda-style exploration and freedom.

weak sapphire
#

Agreed. And i think that's where others tend to fail

#

the more defined the character, the more focus the story needs

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

I mean, the more character driven the story, the more Open World elements take away from the focus and strength of the storytelling.

dim reef
#

ehh... idk, i kind of disagree.

weak sapphire
#

And you are free to

dim reef
#

you just have to write the story to make sense if you take your time.

weak sapphire
#

I've just never played a character-driven game that felt like it benefited from an open world design. The closest was Mass Effect, and that only worked in the first game.

dim reef
#

like, fallout 3 does this pretty well. and fallout 4 does as well.

weak sapphire
#

I wouldn't call those Character Driven. Your character is still pretty blank

#

I'm talking more defined, like Mass Effect, Wild Hunt, Cyberpunk etc

dim reef
#

while not necessarily player driven, i think both oblivion and skyrim suffer from making a plot that threatens the world and lets you just run wild.

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

True, but the games don't really do anything to define that character for you.

dim reef
#

eh, they give you some predetermined traits.

weak sapphire
#

Shepherd, Geralt and V are all defined characters in their own right

dim reef
#

it isn't heavy handed despite what many claim, but there's still some basic characterization there. either way, i don't really think we'd need to worry about characters like shepherd or geralt in a bethesda game.

weak sapphire
#

No, i don't either. But it's a concern i have

dim reef
#

honestly, i'd rather just kind of, no real plot in the elder scrolls 6. but i have, so far, enjoyed the plots of the elder scrolls games and don't mind them, so i know that we're going to have it and i'm fine with that.

weak sapphire
#

I feel like a plot is important for worldbuilding, social and cultural exploraton, and mythic adventure. But it needs to be handled properly.

#

Anyway, it's late and as much as i'd like to continue the conversation, i need to sleep

dim reef
#

eh, i disagree. you don't need a plot for worldbuilding or social/cultural exploration, etc. you just need to write that in and allow the player to still interact with it. i don't really want to be a hero all the time. i want what elder scrolls promised, and while it does give what it promises it can always give more.

fast scroll
#

It's nice to have a plot that takes the current setting to its utmost fantastic degree

#

That would go a long way in worldbuilding

#

The most important thing for me is having the radiant faction quests accessible from signup, and not walled off by a story

#

Having a bulletin board of radiants to pick from at all times. Give the feeling there's a lot of people taking quests

cinder idol
# dim reef while not necessarily player driven, i think both oblivion and skyrim suffer fro...

That does make me wonder about a main quest that goes on without you and can result in some serious bad stuff happening if you doh't follow it kinda like Dead Rising's though after it's done you can goof off all you want. That might be too restrictive but maybe a balance like if you're not going after Miraak he sends progressively bigger and bigger groups of cultists after you.

tidal robin
#

Alright so now that the right bumper is free from shouts and the left number free from changing POV being changed to the select button because waiting is going like in FO4 then I think lb and rb should control the left and right hands for magic. Left trigger blocks and right attacks. You can now block with a one handed sword while wielding magic. You can cast a spell even with a shield on because shields are tied around the arm and not the hand. Bye bye.

#

Oh and this means you can hit people, block, AND cast spells with staves as long as it is in your right hand

weak sapphire
#

The concept I've played with regarding the Bumpers is for quick-use abilities/powers, and a Powrr Wheel

#

For instance, Power Attack would be your defaut Left Bumper ability. Tap it, and do a Power Attack

#

However, Hold and you'd bring up a power wheel you could use to quickly select another 'Move', like a Sweeping Strike.

#

Right Bumper can then be dedicated to Spells that aren't necessarily Gesture driven, IE don't have to be linked to hands. That way you're allowong more diversity in Magic as well

tidal robin
#

Holding down the bumpers to bring up quick select is a great concept I haven’t even considered. I was also think about spells that shouldn’t use hands and behave similar to shouts. I’m just a little unsure about pausing combat for a melee ability unless it’s worth it.

#

Actually never mind I took more time to visualized it and I think you’re on to something very promising.

reef hedge
#

i wouldve preferred witcher 3 if it wasnt an open world, but then again im an insane person who liked the first witcher game

#

witcher 3 was still a great game tho

reef hedge
tidal robin
#

It irks me when a game has a main story that obviously requires immediate attention like finding your son, dad, lover and expects you to explore a huge world at the same time for no reason other than curiosity. Freedom is always great but as far as heavily story driven games go finding a balance seems to be hard.

magic tundra
#

If you don't follow this path, the world is going to end. Oh, and also, here is some totally unrelated stuff to explore for you

#

That's what I like in Morrowind, you literally get told to stop doing the main quest and explore

tidal robin
#

Maybe it would be best if the dramatic stuff happened after you reached a certain level. Like if the game starts you in a village and once you reach level 10 everyone gets killed or something. Maybe you can even prevent that from happening somehow. So long as it doesn’t just unload upon you all the responsibility for the future of the world. That kind of responsibility needs to be earned as you level up, gain reputation etc.

reef hedge
#

im sort of happy with how skyrim approaches it, sure youre the prophecised saviour dragonborn, but you dont know that until you progress in the main quest

tidal robin
#

Maybe major story events can be tied to reputation or something

reef hedge
#

and from the start ralof/hadvar tells you its a good idea if you split apart after leaving helgen

#

exploration is encouraged from the beginning

tidal robin
#

Yeah Skyrim isn’t so bad in that aspect

reef hedge
#

ive had many characters go towards falkreath straight out of helgen

tidal robin
#

And it’s plausible because at that point you don’t know about your Dragonborn abilities

reef hedge
#

yep, just someone who luckily escaped being falsely accused and executed, maybe your first priority is to get revenge against the empire

reef hedge
#

it would be nice if the game gave more reasonable points to pause during the main quest, and points that encourage exploration

tidal robin
#

More specifically it would be factions noticing you and either inquiring about you or trying to kill you. This is if they even bring in some sort of faction system

reef hedge
#

i actually quite like fallout 4's approach of intertwining factions with the main quest

tidal robin
#

Yeah I hope they can take the best out of all of their games and leave out the fat for tes 6 and star field even

#

Character creation and variety of gameplay need to be top priority though. If my end game goal is to own a shop at the biggest city market selling potions or bootleg spells I want it to be possible.

eager remnant
reef hedge
#

nice lol

last vessel
#

I've hit 15 on my current character. At some point I should go to Bleak Falls.

tidal robin
#

My first run was so damn strange that i stopped playing the game until years after when i was a teenager. I went all the way to markarth and my first ever quest was the haunted house one. I was so confused about the game's premise and it was also my first fantasy game. Shooting a flamethrower out of my hand at level 1 also seemed weird to me at the time. This is from a kid who only played fallout and wanted to see if id like fantasy games. The answer is yes but it took like 3 years to answer it.

last vessel
#

The haunted house is certainly an experience.

quartz nimbus
#

personally i think more houses should be haunted

last vessel
#

They might well be, just not that drastically. 😄

quartz nimbus
#

personally i think more houses should be as violently haunted, if not moreso

last vessel
#

Well... normally if it's just a ghost, the priests of Arkay (or equivalent) can make them go away.
The problem with that one though is (obviously) somewhat more complicated.

quartz nimbus
#

personally i think more houses should be violently haunted by daedra

weak sapphire
#

Can we all just take a moment to recognise the brilliance of that quest?

#

I know a lot of people hated that part, because they didn't want to have to kill the Vigilant. They felt like they had lost control and were forced to do sometbing

#

But that's the POINT. That's perfect Molag Bal.

quartz nimbus
weak sapphire
#

Yeah caught that now

fast scroll
#

Imagining what Tony Jay may have been like as Molag Bal. What a scary thing...

eager remnant
#

The only thing I didn't like about House of Horrors was the force-greet from Vigilant Tyranus. I would have preferred to initiate the conversation with him myself.

magic tundra
#

I mean, it makes sense
he actively wants to know about this house; he isn't just waiting for someone knowledgeable about this house to come by and talk to him

eager remnant
fast scroll
#

It sometimes turns into a game of trying to avoid or sometimes outrun people trying to initiate dialogue

tidal robin
#

I hope the next game will let you assassinate some noble by using telekinesis to make a chandelier fall on top of them.

dim reef
#

people need to get over the "but no control!", sometimes in life, you have no control.

weak sapphire
dim reef
#

yeah.

spice whale
#

in ESO whole questgiving thing was so much scarier ways back. every, dang every quest giver rushed to player out of nowhere shouting help! i need help! or i've been looking for you. or comrade! we have need of you! meditative rp walk around the wilderness was simply impossible. oh, and then if the quest required these npcs to follow you they'd spawn every time you enter 'their' area and chase you >.< fun memories though

wanton violet
#

some still do, i run away because busy with anything but random quest givers xD

magic tundra
#

Do you know how long I've been looking for you?

fast scroll
#

"Begone! I've got a restraining order on you!"

keen dome
#

Are there conditions on commercial use of a map made by me in a printed book?
I want to create the map of the main city and surrounding farmlands of my novel, ready to be published.

I wonder about restrictions, copyright, or any possible extra fee needed to publish only a screnshot of a map made with one Elder Scrolls editor (may be Oblivion or Skyrim), in a printed book.

weak sapphire
#

I suspect there would be, given that the assets used in said map are the property of Bethesda Games Studios.

keen dome
# weak sapphire I suspect there would be, given that the assets used in said map are the propert...

Yes, for that I'm asking which would be the commercial conditions. I'm using FlowScape right now, which the only condition is to buy the application. But Skyrim and Oblivion has even more assets, more options, and I'm already modder in them, so why not to make the map here? But first need to be sure of the conditions: only buy the game as Inkarnate, FlowScape or Wildshape? more? or maybe they don't give any permissions of this type? Need to know this before start making the project.

magic tundra
#

I don't think they give permission that easily.
You would have to officially context then and acquire permissions, yet i don't think you'll succeed

last vessel
#

I'm not sure they'll be keen on you publishing a book using their setting/city without permissions either.
Whether or not the map is part of it.

keen dome
plush sapphire
keen dome
plush sapphire
keen dome
cinder idol
#

I'd prefer it if they got rid of killcams entirely, they either give you an unfair advantage at lower difficulties (higher ones too in New Vegas) or at higher difficulties makes melee combat against things like Bandit Chieftains impossible without familiars to take their killcam-jutsu as you stab him to death, without a killcam as you're not strong enough in comparison to get one on them.

You never get them as a reward for killing something super difficult, you get it from fighting against enemies you outmatch or they get it to make a hard fight absolutely unfair and require you to fight dirty too, shooting at them while standing on tables and putting rune after rune in front of them, they being too stupid to sidestep them.

That's another thing, giving your enemy incredible power but giving them no intelligence makes fighting them unfun as there's nothing to outsmart, it just takes more whacks with your endless supply of poisons to kill them.

last vessel
#

I have to admit I could do without killcams interrupting fights, even if some of them, particularly the archery ones can be fun.

eager remnant
#

Personally I dislike the "I don't like X feature so it should be removed for everyone" approach to game design suggestions. I would rather a developer make it an optional feature that can be be checked or unchecked in the menu, so that those who like it can have it and those who don't like it can avoid it. And I would like to see a developer try to improve X feature in their next release as well.

sour flax
last vessel
weary quiver
#

I want impaling an enemy on a spear killcam like vlad the impaler. Or cleaving an enemy in two like gow. Disembowling too

weak sapphire
#

I just want thoughtful, functional combat that allows for flexibility and versatility.

#

Function first. Form second.

tidal robin
#

I want a spell that attracts all of the weapons and shields around me, like from dead enemies, and has them orbit me to both protect me and attack for me. obviously an end game spell

upbeat stag
#

I want to play eso 😛

magic tundra
#

go to NA or the PTS 😛

cinder idol
cinder idol
cinder idol
cinder idol
#

The elder scrolls or just elder scrolls.

weary quiver
#

I want a pet spider that lays its eggs in corpses to birth more pet spiders

#

And dwemer mech/golem creation magic

dim reef
#

are there official eso devs here the servers on xbox na have been down for over an hour without any response to the log in network connectivity issues

magic tundra
#

ESO is developed by Zenimax Online Studios, not Bethesda Game Studios.
I don't think any ZOS devs are here; at least I haven't seen any

spice whale
#

oh. thanks Dyno. tried to post invite to ZOS official discord. they have 'server status' channel, can be pretty handy at times

quartz nimbus
#

the discords are linked here too

weak sapphire
#

Bots be weird, yo. We're a long way off from true Synthetic Intelligence.

#

Which, you know, is part of why i hate Branching Storylines and Mutually Exclusive Outcomes.

#

Until you have an AI capable of adapting a story to your choices in a meaningful way, they're nothing but a clunky gimmick that ultimately only serves to destabilize the continuing integrity of the world.

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

They're already meaningless

dim reef
#

You feel as if you've accomplished freeing skyrim from the cruel hand of the empire or you've crushed the dastardly rebels

weak sapphire
#

Which doesn't matter, because without permanence nothing you do matter

#

Might as well be a "it was all a dream" schtick

#

The next game will render both those choices meaningless and resolve the entire conflict through other means

dim reef
#

Well yeah that's part of Canon but you can role play different characters in your head

#

The dragon born is probably a nord canonically does this mean picking an orc is meaningless?

weak sapphire
#

There will be no of their ethnicity

dim reef
#

In other games like Disco Elysium the policeman character I play acts like an idiot and my partner comments on it, the woman I'm talking to comments on it, that can change how the investigation goes. Choices matter in RPGs

#

If you took the choice out of skyrim what would be left outside of combat?

weak sapphire
#

Hell, the outcome of those stories would be more impactful, because they'd actually MEAN something

dim reef
dim reef
weak sapphire
dim reef
weak sapphire
# dim reef Wdym?

if you have a set outcome you can create a shared experience with greater emotional weight (Aerith's death, for instance) but also allow for continuity and running consequences of those actions.

dim reef
#

What good would Fallout New Vegas be if you could only choose NCR, or Skyrim if you could only choose imperial?

#

I don't imagine they'd be very good

weak sapphire
#

Considerably better, but New Vegas is already setting a low bar anyway

dim reef
#

Oh I have another question I can tie into player choice

#

The age old question: Stormcloaks or Imperials?

weak sapphire
#

Neither. The quest should have played out the same regardless, with Tulius being killed at Whiterun, the Dominion manipulation of the Stormcloaks being revealed, and Balgruf being elected High King

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

Again, Chocies aren't integral to RPGs

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

Not really. That discussion only exists because of how pathetically superficial the Civil War actually is

dim reef
#

Not really I've seen huge debates spanning pages of forums talking about the issue

weak sapphire
#

So have i, but it's not because the Civil War is deep and intersting and thought provoking

#

It's because it's SO shallow that people ahve carte blanche to invent and inject whatever they want into it

#

It's not like, say, Dune, where you can argue the ethical consequences of Leto II's Golden Path and whether or not the oppression of humanity for 3000 years was actually necessary

dim reef
#

Not really I think the imperials AND Stormcloaks have good points that tie into socio-politics

#

I've never played Dune

weak sapphire
#

Points which don't ultimately exist in the game it's self, and have had to be expanded on and constructed by people out of it to make the Civil War less... Well, terrible

dim reef
#

The game in playing at the moment that I'm absolutely smitten with Disco Elysium let's you discuss real world politics in the game and it changes how the game plays. It really feels like you influencing the plot and world around you, how people perceive you and such

#

It would be a terrible game if it forced you to go down one political path

weak sapphire
#

Ok, i guess i'll get into this again...

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

See, there's a difference between totally removing choices, and removing BAD choices, like Alternate Endings.

#

You can still create choice within an otherwise structured narrative without resorting to the over-done trope of 'Your choices change the world' by instead telling multifaceted stories that involve multiple players on multiple sides.

#

Every time you make a choice, the story doesn't change, you simply change with side of the story you experience

dim reef
#

So you want.... Less stakes?

#

I don't see how removing different endings helps

#

Also why don't you want the story to change and experience a story YOUR character would want to go kn

weak sapphire
#

I'd argue the stakes actually go up

#

Because, again, with mutually exclusive outcomes, ultimately only ONE choice matters. The one the Devs decide to move forward with.

dim reef
#

If you play as the Legion in fallout new Vegas the story changes a lot and who Caesar wants you to help and hinder likewise changes. If I sided with the Legion and it didn't feel different to siding with the NCR I'd feel really dissapointed

weak sapphire
#

With multifaceted stories, your choices still matter, because the consequences of those choices persist. If you choose, say, the Empire, and then spend half the campaign working for Tullius only for him to die at Whiterun, he's dead. That happened, and your choice to side with the Empire and befriend him means that death has impact

dim reef
#

Thanks DYNO!

weak sapphire
#

Meanwhile, if you side with the Stormcloaks and don't engage with him at all, but KILL him at Whiterun, that still had impact.

#

Even more, now that you've seen the other side of the story and you know what actions ultimately lead to his death.

#

It makes it so the Player is one of many actors contributing to the story, rather than being the one the entire plot revolves around.

dim reef
#

Yeah I sort of agree?

#

But it sounds like you want more choice?

weak sapphire
#

Different kinds of choices

dim reef
#

They still sound plot defining

weak sapphire
#

Mutually Exclusive Outcomes are the thing i hate. Things that compromise the integrity of the story and the setting for the sake of pandering to the player

dim reef
#

What's a mutually exclusive outcome?

weak sapphire
#

New Vegas' main plot

#

It's pick a side, your side wins

dim reef
#

Yeah? I dont see how that's a bad thing

weak sapphire
#

Among a whole Titanic full of other problems, but that's the core of it...

dim reef
#

Hold on I can't abide by this slander, Caesar must be avenged!

#

Caesar with a K BEE TEE DUBS 😎

weak sapphire
#

I should be clear... I have nothing but contempt for that game. It was the single most anticipated game in my entire life, and it was such a crushing disappointment i blame it for turning me into a sarcastic synic

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

Well, it and Garfield...

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

I prefer narratives which tell a singular story that can be experienced from multiple sides, fitting into different roles

#

Which allows for real narrative consequences.

dim reef
#

But then the roles don't feel different not meaningfully

weak sapphire
#

Imagine New Vegas, where the story has the NCR winning a Pyrrhic victory, and signing a treaty with House, allowing him to maintain a degree of autonomy in exchange for his membership into the NCR. Broken and leaderless, the Legion scatters and ultimately fractures into it's original warring clans again.

dim reef
#

Yeah?

weak sapphire
#

If you choose to side with the Legion, then you are on the losing side of history. That's a choice you made, and a real consequence you have to contend with

dim reef
#

Yeah?

weak sapphire
#

You can still make an entire story out of that, an entire campaign, but it's one with real lasting consequences that your character has to deal with.

#

It's not just "Your side wins, because they have you"

dim reef
#

If I wanna side with House I can and I have to make a moral decision and unless I'm playing a character and in playing my moral compass I have to take my socio political views into account

#

I don't see the point of that because that sucks a lot of politics out of if

#

Like a singular good vs evil ending

#

Caesars legion is super evil don't get me wrong

weak sapphire
#

Does it? You can still make the moral choices, you can still pick which side you (or your character) agree with

#

You can still debate the outcome and 'What if' scenarios

dim reef
#

Yeah but it's who do I agree with more

#

Like do I REALLY want to side with the NCR?

#

They do a lot of bad stuff, what about yes man? But then that's destroying any real authority!

weak sapphire
#

And all of that is still there. Who you side with ultimately doesn't matter, because, like with History, there's a lot more at play than just the actions of a single person. It's the actions of many people that shapes history.

#

And the outcomes that ultimately matter.

dim reef
#

Who's paying you do say this how do people not like NV 😭😭

dim reef
#

The lore breaks can be ignored and its amazingly written

#

I dont know how you can say this about new Vegas when 4 exists

weak sapphire
#

I would say it can, far better than it can encapsulate your choices changing the narrative.

dim reef
#

Like fallout 4 ruined necropolis

weak sapphire
#

4 isn't a shining example of writing either, but, you know... It isn't House wasting 200 years looking for an upgrade he doesn't even need to establish his utoptia bad...

dim reef
#

He wasn't even in the coffin for that long though

weak sapphire
#

But anyway, yeah, Elder Scrolls. This is going to take a minute, ebcause it's a lot to type and i currently have to deal with an Andromedon beating the crap out of my soldiers

#

Why do Sectoids HAVE SO MUCH HEALTH

#

Ok, now where was i... Right.

#

Let's use the Civil War as an example for this, since it's the one i've prepared the most.

#

This is something that is entirely possible to do within the limitations of games today.

You have 2 factions in the Civil War. Each has their own independent storyline, but they cross over and contribute to the same end result.

Imperial; You sign up as normal. The Empire sends you on missions to drum up resources from local communities, scout locations, you know, the normal stuff. After a few missions, you come in to Rikke talking to Tullius about the Jagged Crown. Tullius dismisses it, but Rikke convinces him to agree to send a squad to retrieve it, knowing Galmar is already going after it. You join Rikke on the raid, confronting the Stormcloaks who have killed the local bandits, and finding Galmar inside. He boasts that the Crown has already been taken to Windhelm, so you subdue him and take him back to Solitude as a prisoner. A few more random quests later, Tullius receives word that Ulfric is making for Whiterun, and that given no choice, Balgruf is asking for help. He takes you and a company to Whiterun, arriving just in time to help secure the city before the Stormcloaks arrive. During the battle, the Stormcloaks breach the main gate, and Tullius orders you to take Balgruf and his family and escape. Tullius then faces off against Ulfric to buy you time, dying in the process. You flee Whiterun with Balgruf and his family, and the Stormcloaks take the city.

#

Stormcloak; You join as normal, and do odd jobs like Recruitment and clearin gout camps for a bit. Then, you return from a mission to Galmar demanding a unit to follow a lead on the Jagged Crown, which could help legitimize Ulfric's claim. Ulfric agrees, and you accompany Galmar to the ruin his source tracked the crown to. You fight your way through the Draugr and find the Crown deep inside, when you hear from the sentries that the Imperials have arrived. Galmar orders you deeper into the crypt, knowing they always have a second hidden entrance, and you escape while he and the rest of the Stormcloaks try to hold off Rikke's forces. When you reach Windhelm, you learn Galmar was captured by the Imperials. A few odd jobs later, and you are confronted with Ulfric, who has just received the Axe from Balgruf. Knowing he needs a statement of martial strength, and that Whiterun offers him the best grounds for that, Ulfric charges you with returning the Axe and confirming to Balgruf that an attack is coming. When you return to Ulfric, he lets you in on teh battle plan, leaving you in charge of breaking through the main gate of the city. During the battle, you and Ulfric come across Tulius in the throne room, where Ulfric kills the general. A scout then informs you that an Imperial officer escaped with Balgruf and his family, heading for Solitude.

#

Two stories, 2 motivations, room for multiple characters and emotional engagments.

#

But 1 outcome

#

And with this approach, you could pretty easily fit in a Whiterun story and a Thalmor story as well

#

But the goal of the example was to have the same quest count as is currently in the game

thin crown
#

Securing Whiterun could have easily be a big sub quest to civil war where you secure the 2 big forts, the iron mine and Valtheim to solidify either side in central Skyrim.
Could even result in mounted units for either side.

eternal tapir
#

Elder Scrolls 6 is the Half-Life 3 of western RPGs

#

And has so much to live up to

#

Mostly in the scale of world interaction and this fancy "we-dont-have-the-technology-for-es6's-scope-yet-but-it-will-be-protoed-in-starfied" thing they brought up several times

weak sapphire
#

The problem with modern gamers and the internet is... people WILL get hyped

#

They will create an image of what they want, and then judge the product based on that image, rather than anythi g approaching realistic expectations or even what they were told to expect

#

Its actually rare that you get an example loje Cyberpunk, where the product is ACTUALLY significantly different than what was advertised.

weary quiver
#

Tes6 will be skyrim in hammerfell

weak sapphire
#

Eh, people expected Skyrim to be Oblivion all over again

#

I don't think we can really anticipate what will hapoen

remote epoch
#

Well i want skyrim to have a big ambitious like daggerfall and make the game feel like you can live in it

weak sapphire
#

As a general rule, i find the bigger the game, the less 'livable' it feels.

#

Because you need to make concessions in terms of charscters and interaction forrhe sake of size

weary quiver
#

the other great world building company is rockstar, who kind of had a similar trajectory in development history. but the world is definitely something you want to drive around fast in, sneaking through someone's backyard and the world seems empty.

weak sapphire
#

I have always found Rockstar's worlds crowded but hollow

#

Life, at least to me, comes not from the size of number of bodies, but from the characters involved

#

I can walk into Whirerun, and recognise that every NPC (not including Guards) has an identity

#

They may not be deep or well developed, but they're still lightyears ahead of cardboard cutouts who just scream and run when you fire a weapon

weary quiver
#

ongar the world weary was my favorite npc. i used to stalk him

eternal tapir
#

Much of it had to do with the shift away from "FPS/open-world walking simulator" to "GTA" very late in development

#

I mean, even as someone who enjoyed it there was a very in-betweenness at launch

spice whale
#

interviews probably dont count as marketing campaign but cdprojeckt blatantly said stuff like 'polishing sells. look at rockstar games games". it's not even about cyberpunk game, this line, buuut.. hard not to expect high polish after such words x)

eternal tapir
#

Well... it IS absolutely more detailed asset-wise and density wise all-over, and open-world games in general can't launch polished these days, not even GTA 6 or ES6

spice whale
#

ah, i remember it all wrong. just googled that interview :
*If we look at our role models, what Rockstar is doing is amazing. It's not like, 'We have to ship a game or we may not hit our financial goals.' It's, 'Here's GTA V, and by the way, it's the best game ever made.' We're all looking forward to Red Dead Redemption 2 because we know they'll show something and we'll be like, 'Oh my god.'
"But we still have to get there. We have to prove it. The Witcher 3 is a good example, but we have to keep on delivering
*
it's 2016

tulip wigeon
#

Who is in charge of dealing with cheaters?

spice whale
#

cheaters where, in ESO? they have in-game system to report things

#

f11 key by default, i think? somewheres in character menu, support tab

weak sapphire
#

About the only thi g they carried through on was the Cyberpunk world. Too bad they didn't do jack squat with it

spice whale
#

no idea what jack squat is but they do have slav squat in photomode 👍

eager remnant
spice whale
#

it was a joke >.< but yeah, i had to google the expression

eternal tapir
#
  1. Interactivity does not equal immersion
eternal tapir
#

Are you talking about the main plot?

#

The game "going nowhere" with its themes?

weary quiver
#

never played it but witcher 3 looked pretty terrible. the main characters look like final fantasy rejects and the the 'npcs' look like larper rejects. its based in a polish setting or something but is that what medieval poland looked like?

weary quiver
spice whale
#

main plot made zero sense in the open world game. 'hey V,' says Vic once you wake up in his surgeon chair, 'In two weeks tops you will die". Now go out and explore, do all the hand crafted missions we planted around the town, buy all cars, visit every fixer, make friends \o/ i enjoyed the game and the ending (Jonny takes Vs body) felt depressing days after buuut i dont know what to do with this game now, what to play it for. try different Vs backgrounds? dialogues dont vary much, probably because voice actors play the same personality. oh, and i wish corpo rat 'class' had more sense, too . _. i wanted to work *for * corporations, darn it..

#

ummm we should probably somehow compare it with TES games to not be asked stop derailing

weary quiver
#

skyrim was a masterpiece of cohesive world building and design, witcher 3 was a comic design by comittee mix

eternal tapir
#

Also the game makes it pretty clear that V can't do anything to change Night City

tulip wigeon
#

Sje, they don't do anything about it. Which mod is in charge of enforcement?

#

Disciplining cheaters

spice whale
#

was asked to stop 'bashing' like this in Starfield channel a few times by now <.< moderators are watchful. buuut if you have some scammer to report you can use @vast rain command

#

uh oh, didnt mean to ping

weak sapphire
# eternal tapir 1. I don't think you read CDPR's quote on the story being like grain 2. Expectin...

1; Obviously not, because i don't even understand that analogy.

2; Something i was quite upfront about in the first place, but that hasn't stopped them from promising it for the last 2 games

3; The game lacked basic behaviours for NPCs and ground level bug fixing, spawn parameters (enemies would literally spawn in inside your FOV and in occupied space, for instance) and core optimization functionality on half it's release platforms. They claimed, RIGHT UNTIL LAUNCH, that the game was finished and they were just doing minor tweaks to make it 'Perfect' when, in reality, the game wasn't even in what could be considered a Beta state yet.

5; Yes, they are. But there is a threshold for acceptable problems, and Cyberpunk 2077 was well, WELL beyond that.

6; Immersion is a funny thing. it's different for different people. Immersion is, in general, a terrible thing to design for because it isn't an actual, tangible thing and is going to impact different people differently. For instance, some people think RDR2 is an amazingly immersive game. Some do not. Who is right and who is wrong? Neither, because Immersion is subjective. And as such everything both is, and is not, an immersive quality.

And 7; Cyberpunk lacks any of the nihilism, existential questioning and angst of Cyberpunk, despite nailing the visuals and aesthetic. It's all style, no substance, with no real engaging character, intrigue or point. They created a gorgeous introduction to the world, but then don't actually give you anything Cyberpunk to DO in that world. It's just a crappy platform for a tacky Keanu Reaves character.

weary quiver
#

discord doesn't like it if you 'bash' gaming companies. which makes 'sense' financially. where others see chance i see cost

weak sapphire
#

The problems with the world go beyond the main story, and encompass MOST of the stories the game tells int eh world. They're not really deep or thought provoking or even engaging. They're generic crap witha vaneer of 80s references tossed around.

#

So, they did really, really well establishing the world you play in, then immediately drop the ball at, you know... Doing anything with that world

plush sapphire
#

Let's move on, this chat is for Elder Scrolls related discussions. You are welcome to discuss other games in #off-topic

weak sapphire
#

Which is sort of the reverse of Wild Hunt, where i legitimately think the game would have been better without the Open World at all.

And this all ties back into what makes Bethesda games, and TES in particular, so good. They manage to (mostly) establish good settings and worldbuilding, and then give you lost of interesting and engaging things to do an explore IN that world

#

I have never, in 30 years of gaming, played a game which encourages me to just wander through the woods more than Skyrim

eternal tapir
#

I need to go to another server for now but Cyberpunk is SUPPOSED to have the illusion of style over substance, you have to look for the deeper themes.

eager remnant
eternal tapir
#

Even in the tabletop RPG which is basically the GTA of the Cyberpunk genre

weak sapphire
#

There's no reason to just take a turn down a random alley in GTA, or head to a random bluff in Assassin's Creed, or wander into some random woods in The Witcher.

#

But in TES, there is. There are dozens of unmarked locations scattered around the world, jsut random ass finds that don't really mean anything beyond fleshing out teh world. They aren't linked to grand quests or offer special rewards. They're just part of a world that feels more lived in and real than, frankly, any other franchise out there

spice whale
#

speaking of change (V can't change Night City) - in Skyrim player's actions affect the world immediately, visibly, 'tangibly'. old forts get reoccupied by either armies, local rulers and their courts get exiled, ah. Fallout 4 had this too. Consequences of players actions aren't in relations with npcs only but in the world <3 Brotherhood's fancy ship changes area twice (arrives, gets blasted), USS constitution cna be moved, and such

weary quiver
#

i laughed at a poster who said he wanted to live in oblivion. oblivion isnt real dude! than i wanted to live in skyrim. i would like to open up a meadery irl in honor of skyrim

weak sapphire
#

I got a kick out of a thread on Reddit awhile back about what you'd doif you woke up in Tamriel

#

My response was "Get a safe job using some of my scientific knowledge that pays well and is as far from adventuring as possible"

#

Anyway, all this Cyberpunk stuff ties back to the original point. It doesn't ultimately matter what Bethesda says, what Bethesda promises, or what Bethesda makes. That isn't going to determine how people view TES6

#

The TES6 that people create in their minds, on forums and on social media, is going to determine how people view Bethesda's TES6. Because that's just how the Hype Train works these days

#

And honestly, the less Bethesda says about it through development, the better. They should be waiting until they're doing final phase playtesting before they even TALK about features and the like

weary quiver
#

i wouldn't compare beth to cdpr, cdpr pushed the edge. with nms, at least if you're somewhat astute you could question the hype for a game made by 10 people no name company

weak sapphire
#

CDPR's team for Cyberpunk was 4 times the size of Bethesda Game Studios

weary quiver
#

i think more people are working on gta6 than worked on the apollo program

weak sapphire
#

Would not surprise me

#

Considering Take-Two, it's probably like the Wookies working on the Deathstar 2

prime marlin
#

people cant read anyways doesnt matter what bethesda says

#

people will pull lawsuits for things “promised” that were never promised and take any offhanded comment as a gurantee

weak sapphire
#

The same can really be said for 90% of complaints about anything online

weary quiver
#

todd howard is a master at marketing, which is the thin line between LIES and TRUTH

prime marlin
#

todd doesnt lie

weary quiver
#

todd is a visionary

prime marlin
#

everything hes ever said was being developed and in the game at the time of saying it

#

but if somethign ends up going against what would be fun or nobody even notices it anyways

weary quiver
#

fallout 4 had the best scene in gaming, the bos introduction. only other scene with that much impact i can think of is walking on the hull of the citadel for the first time in mass effect

spice whale
#

first time i watched Prydwen arrive (late late night likely) it seemed a little staged to me, frankly. how very timely.. although it wasnt deus ex machina or something, story wise, they were expected any day.. weird

weary quiver
#

it was an excellent use of timing

eternal tapir
#

It gets better when you do most of the side quests first

weak sapphire
#

Fallout 4's use of set pieces and scripted scenes is what really helped convince me that you can still tell cinematic stories within the format of a Bethesda game

eternal tapir
#

And yet you have people who keep their nostalgia goggles on

weary quiver
#

dostoyevsky always had 'staged' scenes in every novel where a bunch of people would get into a room and get into a dramatic argument, every novel XD

spice whale
#

i suppose pacing is important.. and i suppose arrival of new powerful potential ally straight after you've killed the baddie and lost hope helps getting emotional..

#

staged >.<

#

one naughty consumer wasnt convinced, is all \o/ but really, try to imagine that arrival scene if it happened at certain day no matter where you were exploring, building, killing

#

like, you still dont know there's some Danse guy shooting ghouls, you planted crops the whole time you exited that vault. then bang, "do not be alarmed!"

weary quiver
#

its an excellent example of narrative flow and timing. imagine if darth vader came to luke in a vision while he was doing his laundry to tell him he is his father

prime marlin
#

then the pacing of the story would be ruined

spice whale
#

oooor, you ve already dug a hole into the insitute and Maxson arrives, and just like, blinks. the hell happened here.. x)

prime marlin
#

then thatd take away player choice and ruin the two actstructure of the story

#

3 act*

spice whale
#

true, all true

eternal tapir
cinder idol
weak sapphire
#

While i remain opposed to Guild Requirements on a conceptual level, i do think Radiant Quests offer a good platform to expand the relevance of Guilds beyond their own internal story

magic tundra
#

I prefer guild requirements
It doesn't make sense to become archmage if you've only ever cast two spells the entire game
(one to gain entry to the college, and one to trigger the wall in Sarthal)

#

but then again, I'm also opposed to becoming the leader of each faction you encounter

#

I do like what they attempted to do with Proving Honor (but scrapped for some reason): Depending on who you did more side quests for, you could be accompanied by either Farkas or Aela
Cutting Room Floor restores this feature

spice whale
#

gosh i wish ESO had radiant quests. wanted to play more mages guild content but only found some order of the eye, which only offered some murder, i think? fetching books would suit better

weak sapphire
#

Action based tests are ok, but Morrowind style Requirements were terrible.

#

Not only are they just arbitrary numbers that have no inherent meaning... but they don't actually make much logical sense.

#

The leader of any successful guild is going to be better equipped to file paperwork and talk to clients than, yku know... mix potions or slay monsters.

magic tundra
#

Do the alliance war quests count?

weak sapphire
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They take me out of the world. No one in Tamriel has spreadsheet telling you what your skills are. Aptitude is shown through action, not numbers. so having a numerical gating that NPCs recognise, rather than just some background calculation that isn't actually part of the game world, it just jarring to me.

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Conbined with the fact that, for any organization, those incharge aren't likely to be the best in their field

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The leader of the Fighters Guild isn't going to be the best fighter, they're going to be the one who manages the guikd the best, the one who gets people work

magic tundra
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which clearly isn't you, either

weak sapphire
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Not in the games we've had, no. But there's room for that too

magic tundra
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but you don't jump from new recruit to guild leader, you advance slowly through the ranks
and to do that, you need to show a certain proficiency in whatever skill the factin values

weak sapphire
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That's another discussion as well, but i don't think you should HAVE tk be the leader of a guild. There should be other ways to interact.

Just using it as a job and getting radiant quests from it, never actually engaging in its story questline, for instance.

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And Skyrim was actually the first time you HAD to cast spells to progress.

magic tundra
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oh, yes, how many? two? three?

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no, wait, FIVE!

weak sapphire
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There are 5 times in the questline where you have to use magic. Not great, sure, but better than previous games

magic tundra
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"better than previous games"
looks at morrowind, where you actuall had to have the skill to advance

weak sapphire
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Having the skill doesn't mean casting apells

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You can shell out the gold to train to that level, an never once cast a spell in Morrwind

magic tundra
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you must use ward to progress First Lessons, you need to hit that wall in Sarthal with a spell to crumble it (althoug a shout would do), you have to use flames and frostbite to adjust that dwarven mechanism in Mzulft.

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well, during training, you still do spellcasting, you just do it off-screen

weak sapphire
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Its implied, sure. But it could also just be book learning

magic tundra
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that would work for spells maybe, but not for the martial skills

weak sapphire
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True

magic tundra
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while magic is the prime example of guild requirements, I think it applies to all factions that have a certain specialisation

weak sapphire
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My point isn't that gating is bad, its that how Morrowind handled it was bad

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How Skyrim handles it is better, it just doesn't do it enough.

magic tundra
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skyrim doesn't do anything

weak sapphire
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Again, Skyrim actually requires you to overcome obsticals using Magic.

magic tundra
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😱

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but what about the other guilds?

weak sapphire
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Which is still better than NEVER having to use magic at all

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The Companions requirss you to spar once.

magic tundra
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yeah, you need to show you're not a total fool to enter
but once you're in...

weak sapphire
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No, Morrowind requires you to raise numbers on a character sheet

magic tundra
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how else would you track proficiency in an RPG?

weak sapphire
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Again, neither were great, but Skyrim's approach of actively making you engage in the relevant activity is superior

magic tundra
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well, the "actively making you engage in the relevant activity" is superior
I just don't really see skyrim doing it

weak sapphire
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It does the absolute bare minimum kf it

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Which is stil better, if barely

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No, it doesn't. You can become the leader of every faction without once using any of the skills in any actice way

magic tundra
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of course, you could make guild advancement based on some other feats that aren't directly stats but derive from their use
like, completing x arcane rituals for the mage faction, doing x heists without being seen for the thief faction, killing x impressive foes for the warriro faction, etc

weak sapphire
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Training isn't an exploit

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Its literally an direct mechanic the game encourages you to use

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No, thats how it was designed

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Because they realised it was a bad desifn

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That doesn't mean its an exploit