#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 52 of 1

sinful hatch
#

Oblivion had casting spells done right.

weak sapphire
#

Magic, at least as it works in any sort of action oriented context, has always been terrible in my mind. I can't think of a aingle game with a good magic system

#

HOWEVER, i do think Skyrim has the foundation for one. Specific animations linked to basic behavioural parameters for Spells, modified by secondary effects.

#

It just needs to take that foundation and add mkre variables to it.

fringe path
#

Ok gotcha

#

I think magic needs more weight to it honestly

#

Like if you're not high enough level in a certain school of magic, then using high-level magic from that school should stagger you

violet lily
#

I would love it if levitation spells were brought back

#

I have a lot of fun making infinite duration Levitation as a castable spell in Morrowind and then just floating everywhere 😋

fringe path
#

Magic should have some form of almost like recoil to it I think

#

Also touch spells should be added

#

I think more animations could definitely help

#

And each school should have animations unique to its own spells and such

magic tundra
fringe path
#

I remember looking at the cover of my Player's Handbook for D&D where the elf is saying something into her hand that's making the spell form and I think that could make for a really cool animation for alteration spells

fringe path
magic tundra
#

Flames, Frostbite and Sparks

weary quiver
#

state of decay had fun melee combat which involved area of effect attacks and flying/falling from hit creatures taking damage from the environment

#

and you need l33t ninja skillz champion escape from tarkov reflexes to be a destruction mage. magic should not be based on player aim

fringe path
#

I think every school of magic should have damage spells

#

That's a big one

magic tundra
#

what would the point of destruction be, then?

fringe path
weak sapphire
#

Now, i know im in a minority here, but i hate touch spells.

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

Just in concept, they seem so lamwe to me.

dim reef
#

am i the monster? (jk)

fringe path
#

As you level up in other schools you unlock the ability to use their damage spells. Some of their combat spells unlock earlier than others like Restoration with holy/radiant spells or Alteration with draining spells

fringe path
#

But Alteration masters should have the ability to do all kinds of crazy stuff in combat almost becoming their own Wabbajack

weary quiver
#

healing magic spells are slower less powerful potions. change my mind

dim reef
#

they make the sparkly sounds

weary quiver
#

appropriate spells should have material components

sinful hatch
fringe path
eager remnant
# fringe path I think more animations could definitely help

Casting spells in Kingdoms of Amalur is pretty physical. The character grunts and uses their whole body like a javelin thrower to fling even the most basic shock spell. Other spells have their own unique animations (and player sounds). It is the only game in which magic feels visceral to me.

weak sapphire
fringe path
fringe path
weak sapphire
#

I've ever actually associated Battlemages with 2handed weapons

#

That said, i do think there is room for that kind of casting, just... not at base.

#

Hands-free magic should be something you work up to, nkt something everyone does by default

weak sapphire
#

Building on Skyrim's system i think is the best route forward though. Particular animations linked to base behaviours. So a Bolt has an animation where you point, and it fires in that direction. A Ball has a throwing animation and arcs through the air as a projectile

#

From there, you can apply modifiers to add onto the base behaviour. Such as Channel, or Bounce, or Area of Effect.

#

And of course, you have the actual effects the spell has when triggered.

#

3 basic components even if you only have 3 Casting types, 10 modifiers and 20 effects, you're looking at 600 potential spells. Without adding multiple modifiers or Effects

fringe path
#

What if they made it so that you need a spellcasting focus at low level?

#

Like a ring or a wand or something

#

Maybe not the most lore-friendly, but I think it could add a lot to mage playthroughs

weak sapphire
#

I fear the inclusion of wands.

#

Because i hate Harry Potter

fringe path
#

Oof

#

Bro what's wrong with Harry Potter

#

Besides JK Rowling obviously

weak sapphire
#

I was an angsty d&d teen when Harry Potter started to gain traction, and just found it embodied everything i found lame about the Wizard class

#

Plus, i was reading Tolkien, Asimov, Herbert etc at that point, and couldn't stand Rowling's prose

dim reef
fringe path
#

Valid I suppose

#

Main thing I want is greater weapon variety. The first mod I ever got for Skyrim SE was PrivateEye's Heavy Armory

weak sapphire
#

So long as weapons are functionally different, i agree

#

Crossbows, for instance, should only be powerful alpha strike weapons.

#

Not just a cosmetically different Bow.

weary quiver
#

i'm sure even as a kid i would have thought harry potter is ridiculously stupid

weak sapphire
#

I dunno, when i was a kid i wanted to be a transformer when i grew up

#

So, i was a pretty dumb kid

weary quiver
#

i was ambivalent about the d&d cartoon as a kid, didn't like the fact the protagonsists were earth humans

fringe path
#

I like Harry Potter a lot honestly but let's stay on topic

sinful hatch
nimble pond
#

Staffs I thought would be more for the mages than wands. But staffs didn't really have much going on for them in Skyrim besides the aesthetic aspect. Hoping they will expand on it and make a better system for them in next chapter.

#

Though most ppl would point out we have hand magic, so why bother? Well, why bother with magic scrolls as well? Doesn't mean they couldn't have staffs as an alternative if you prefer that over hand magic whether they make spells the same stat or higher or lower than the other. Didn't agree with the idea of staffs needing to be recharged though, it should just run off your mana like hand magic. So they could just do that and make spells available for both hand and staff for aesthetic purposes or mage roleplay.

#

But they could also do something different with it since they already introduced hand magic. They could add another whole school of magic focusing on staffs and staff magic-only spells. It could be like a hybrid between magic and melee class. Being that not only can it perform spells or summons or whatever magical abilities, but also can charge and transform the staff into different forms for melee combat as well (and I'm talking a bit more physical as well as beyond the conjuration spells for Daedric weapons).

#

Also, the ability to swap spells on any staff like we do with our hands. So I'm not having to carry around several staffs just to have those spells available. Just different staffs in appearance and material would be nice.

#

I thought that was the Snuggly the Crow? Lol. What Gremlin?

nimble pond
weak sapphire
#

Yeah, but they take too long to reload to be really useful in a protracted fight. Do a lot of damage and take one enemy out at medium range, then switch to other options.

nimble pond
#

I would make crossbows a lil faster to reload and shoot then bows in that case. Whereas bows are a lil slower to reload and shoot than crossbows, but more effective for distance. Like you can still hit a long range target with a crossbow, but you would do more damage with a bow at long range

weak sapphire
#

The overall point is that different weapons should FEEL different to use, and preform best in different circumstances

#

So the choices you make in what your character uses actively impacts how you play.

nimble pond
#

Maybe unique abilities too for bows and crossbows. Like shooting a double shot with the bow or a multi-shot with crossbows that don't do as much damage as a normal crossbow shot but effective for causing bleeding or greater effect of poisons, etc

#

In my mind. Crossbows are more impact therefore penetrate armor greater than a bow, so would be more effective against heavy armor, but less effective at long distances. Whereas bows are more controllable with angle so they do more crit damage and chance, like if you happened to angle the perfect shot in an exposed area of a heavy armor target.

weak sapphire
#

Yeah

cinder idol
cinder idol
violet lily
cinder idol
cinder idol
# nimble pond I would make crossbows a lil faster to reload and shoot then bows in that case. ...

Shouldn't they be the opposite, given the crossbow loads much slower than a bow IRL? So the crossbow is built for more lethal, armour piercing, long range shots while the longbow is great for firing round after round consecutively but has both more of an arc to its shots and less ability to pierce armour. EDIT: Apparently crossbows can shoot further but both aren't accurate at those ranges, with both weapons' effective range being 30-60 yards according to one source, however it depends on if we're talking about historically accurate or modern with a lot of sources saying different things.

nimble pond
nimble pond
cinder idol
cinder idol
nimble pond
#

Mhm, generally I'd like to see more customization options available for staff and staff making and staff spells. So you can really properly give that sense of IDENTITY to your staff. Especially for those who are going to want to have that traditional staff mage roleplay.

cinder idol
nimble pond
cinder idol
nimble pond
#

Sort of

#

But I think that just fires more than one bolt at a time?

#

I meant like have a clip say 3 bolts? And firing one at a time, boom boom boom, then you reload the clip

#

But they could have crossbow configs where you could fire more than one bolt at a time too

#

Like if you wanted to load each bolt with different spells for triple magic effect

cinder idol
#

They do but I think they're more modern. Don't see why the Dwemer couldn't make a magazine of bolts for the top of the crossbow but the issue is the drawstring...

nimble pond
#

Some quick auto mechanical loader possibly

#

Or steam actuated crossbow

#

You recharge the clip by having charge the steam back up. Good for 3 shots before you have to pump it up again

#

Also. I know this goes back to WoW days.. but dual crossbows. For my assassin chars

#

Not as powerful as one crowboss. But great for inflicting poisons and bleeding effects, stuff like that.

cinder idol
weary quiver
#

Historically it was easier to train crossbowmen than archers. Although I could easily hit bullseye with a bow from 45 feet with ease as a child

#

Staffs scrolls and wands were made sort of useless in tes since you can easily recharge your mp quickly

fringe path
weary quiver
#

And nobunaga just gathered amass of peasants and trained them in firearms to good effect over samurai archers

#

I never tried crossbow but I'm a good aim with firearms so should be no problem :p I will rule the upcoming zombie apocalypse

#

although i probably have bad cardio

cinder idol
dim reef
cinder idol
dim reef
#

oh right. forgot about that

#

they'll have thicker british accent than I do!

eager remnant
#

Here is an interesting video on that subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y63dBBlHlSk

YouTube
Today I Found Out
How Far Back in Time Could an English Speaker Go and Still Communic...

Signup for your FREE trial to The Great Courses Plus here: http://ow.ly/1I4430noyTL

If you happen to like our videos and have a few bucks to spare to support our efforts, check out our Patreon page where we've got a variety of perks for our Patrons, including Simon's voice on your GPS and the ever requested Simon Whistler whistling package: htt...

▶ Play video
nimble pond
#

This topic derailed quickly XD

#

Elder Scrolls: British Chat

weary quiver
#

i guess you can pick up chaucer. not certain if people of the era spoke like shakespeare, think i read somewhere his writing didn't represent speech then

fringe path
fringe path
raw mural
#

It it true that the next elders scrolls it's going to be Microsoft exclusive?

fringe path
#

Most likely

dim reef
#

Seeing how Starfield is and TESVI is much further out... Yeah it's gonna be exclusive 99.999999% certainly

weary quiver
#

Rip sony

weak sapphire
#

Sony asked for it. Microsoft and independent publishers have been pushing an end to exclusivity for years, and even Nintendo is warming up to it, but Sony has been torally against it.

#

So, if players want to complain, complain to Sony, not Microsoft.

weary quiver
raw mural
#

Lol yeah it makes sense Sony has been pushing it's exclusivity agenda for years and in the end it backfired on them because now any new titles of some of the most popular videogame franchises of all time are never ever going to be out on their systems ever again, in a way Sony forced Microsoft

nimble pond
#

Cross-gen emulators? Idk, ppl always seem to find ways around things these days

raw mural
#

I spoke to some Sony guys are they are really in denial telling me that there is no way the next elder scrolls is going to be Microsoft exclusive

magic tundra
#

As if they had any say in that

weak sapphire
#

I think that, ultimately, it would hurt TES sales. BUT, losing out on a bunch of major sellers may impact Sony enough to get them on board with killing Exclusivity entirely

#

Which in turn benefits Microsoft. So they may take the hit in sales in the short term in order to open up that market.

#

Provided they think that Sony is going to actually give on the subject

weary quiver
#

ms should now make minecraft exclusive to further paint sony into a corner

wanton violet
weary quiver
#

there's a crossbow in fo76 so it will eventually show up in tes6

wanton violet
#

there was crossbow in skyrim (via dawnguard dlc) so shouldnt be totally unknown to tamriel

weary quiver
#

ah ok yeah i have not bought bethesda dlc spanning from fo3 to skyrim

wanton violet
#

don't know which race/culture they could give it to them to make em more common but well, guess it depend on bethesda/zenimax

#

in dawnguard we had normal crossbow the guard/nord had and dwemer's variant (obviously superior because dwemer) even had new dwemer automatron who basically where walking ballista

nimble pond
#

Don't know how I feel about the exclusivity. Depends a great deal on the leadership, who is in control and can ppl get along? Not having any other choice of where to go cause its all under one roof could turn into a bigger problem.

cinder idol
spice whale
#

there's crossbow skill in ESO, in fighters guild line i think

wanton violet
#

i think it just a damage buff passive/active damage ability,no?

spice whale
#

havent used for years frankly, no idea what it does now x) they changed so many skills. though i remember shooting animation looked all right

wanton violet
#

i only started recently, having lot of love for my lil sorcerer lizard and being exploring the world/doing dungeon. so my knowledge of eso skill is limited

spice whale
#

ah, that's neat. im since beta, myself <.<

magic tundra
noble verge
dim reef
#

When is elder scrolls 6 coming out

#

Looks cool

cinder idol
nimble pond
#

I use chopsticks

nimble pond
#

I don't know if it's a scratch or not. But going off the supposed easter egg of TESVI in the Starfield trailer.. If you turn the image 90 degrees to the left, then it actually does resemble the entire province of Hammerfell "roughly" (Hew's Bay down at the bottom there). As far as the other two borders of the big province, it looks like on top could be a region of High Rock, specifically Wayrest. Now the other piece of land to the right of Hammerfell with the gap in between the two is a bit more difficult. Can't quite pin that location, it could be anything.. could be a region of both skyrim and cyrodiil where they share borders or simply a region in cyrodill. But the gap really confuses it, making me question if by the shape of it, could be northwestern side of Morrowind, or even further out and a small piece of Akavir depending on the scale of the gap. This is all purely theory as we don't know it's a confirmed easter egg and could simply just be a scratch.

weak sapphire
#

I am as sure of it being a scratch, and a case of pareidolia, as i am of the theory of evolution.

Problem being, now if it IS Hammerfell, people will see that as proof it was more than a scratch.

rare void
#

will you do node materials in your engine? what do you think about opening like Unreal and getting an army of beta testers?

magic tundra
#

who is this "you" you're talking to?

dim reef
#

bethesda?

rare void
#

is it Bethesda official discord or fan channel?

magic tundra
#

it is the official bethesda discord, but the actual devs rarely talk in here

#

(if they talk in here at all, it's mostly a place for the fans replacing the old forums)

rare void
#

so there is not any public connection wtih bethesda anymore?

weak sapphire
#

There never was much of one to begin with

dim reef
#

i feel like bethesda has more of a public connection than other game companies

weary quiver
#

we got bgs qa, quest designers, quest design leads, art directors, network guys, producer... in fallout 76 chat. maybe there is something wrong with you elder scrolls fans?

#

jk 😛

magic tundra
#

well, maybe the BGS employees are busy working on FO76 and Starfield, so they don't come looking into TES stuff?

weary quiver
#

starfield not as much as there's really not all that much substantive to talk about so we just mostly bash sony and cdpr 😛

dim reef
#

we have cvh though

orchid thicket
#

I found a Dwemer ruin I didn't know existed

#

Doesn't give anything to stand out which is probably why I didn't know of it. it's called Rkund and is in the Rift. Only accesable if you've cleared Darklight tower

#

Kinda amazed I didn't know about that ruin

dim reef
#

its been a long time since i played skyrim so i don't even remember darklight tower

orchid thicket
#

Just caught me off guard. As someone fixated on Dwemer you'd think i'd know it

#

Just home to a wispmother, no extra lore there

#

While on my temp modding break I'm replaying Skyrim on my Series X. Recapture some nostalgia from 8 years ago

#

No mods on it yet, I want to get all the achieves first

dim reef
#

theres always things you'll miss. kinda like i know a lot about daedra but i didn't know daedra could throw things in the past... like sheo and hermaeus mora did with books in eso

orchid thicket
#

I was messing with tbe idea of a time machiene before ZoS added one to backup what I wanted to do

#

Well they didn't add a time machine, but a resonator that could break reality and pull things in from all over time

#

Things clicked into place for me

dim reef
#

theres a lot of things eso adds that makes it easier for your ideas to make in tes which is fun

orchid thicket
#

All my TES Content will tie into my big project rn, all Dwemer themed. Next is simple but a journey of a certain AI

#

That second one isn't totally original

#

We all have our own favourite lore piece

dim reef
#

I just want daedra in Farrun

#

That’s my big project

#

That and original stuff but those aren’t tes

orchid thicket
#

After this mod, i'll just be sticking to connections/tie-ins and smaller mods

#

For a while anyway, I want to completely remake my big mod down the road and redesign it to be a bit better to run. Mainly dividing up the city instead of being huge and open. And remove dependancies, hire asset makers or something, then I can get it on Console

#

The only issue with that is redoing everything, but at least next time I won't have to draft a story

agile cipher
#

Why aren't any children in ESO? You can travel all around Tamriel but you don't see any child. I think that is a bit immersive breaking

spice whale
#

aye, and its heart breaking too ._ . some quest actually refer to children or maybe 'young adults' and those are just same models as adults

agile cipher
#

It also make no sense at all I mean if they don't want that we can kill them then just make them like quest giver you can't kill quest giver with the blade of woe. It just don't make any sense, they could at least but some children in the saver cities, cities that don't get attacked like Rimmen or Elden Root.

#

I wouldn't put them in places like Cold harbor but there are many good places for child's to grow up

spice whale
#

and the saddest part, they never will add kids as it would require too much work for no revenue. cant sell it ._ .

#

oh well, lets hope TES6 will have knife ears kids, and kitten, and lizard hatchlings

agile cipher
#

There are some mods who add kids. I saw a mod that add kitten who are adoptable

#

It was I think for the PC and the xbox

lost wagon
#

holy crap, i actually never noticed that ^^

weak sapphire
#

Eh, suspension of disbelief and all that.

orchid thicket
#

I know TES VI is ways off but I think for a DLC Stos M'aki would be perfect for a DLC island location

#

Bit of Nostalgia for the people that played Redguard

weak sapphire
#

Yeah.

#

I'd say it would be a great location for a nautical themed expansion... But that sort of mechanic should be in the base game, i think

nimble pond
#

Naval mechanics? Yeah, I agree. It would be weird to have it has DLC, but not base game. I'm just curious how they are gonna spin it to make it stand out from traditional naval games. Like just shooting cannonballs ain't gonna that appealing imo and what else besides combat?

#

If naval mechanics are involved in base game, there's a lot of potential for DLC involving that like locations

#

Instead of just pointing and click in Skyrim and boom, you're in Solstheim.

noble verge
#

If the base game is Hammerfell, I'd think S'tros M'kai is a little too similar to the base setting to be a good DLC location.

#

TES III's Solstheim, TES IV's Shivering Isles, and TES V's 4th Era Solstheim all sharply contrasted to the setting of their corresponding base games.

weak sapphire
orchid thicket
#

Depending how Ships work in Starfield, maybe we could see Player owned ships and such

#

Just structured a little different, one flies and one floats

magic tundra
#

If flying works, floating is the same but in less dimensions

weary quiver
#

if it is hammerfell and high rock, the sea/bay between them would seem to be a good area for ships. but it might turn out to be small for sailing with how bethesda maps are made and its typical size

#

floating ships shouldn't be a big deal but being able to board them might be a bit trickier, although not something mind bogglingly complex you would think

weak sapphire
#

It's already been done across a dozen games, so it should be doable

weary quiver
#

so has cars and land vehicles

orchid thicket
#

Have your ship like a base, customise it at certain docks and change weaponry too

#

Interior is free/open customisation like settlement building

#

Take down merchants for your supply of Copper or whatever you want to collect from them

#

Get a bounty and have a guard ship chase

proper wagon
#

WASSUPPP

weary quiver
#

some of the interiors of the shup could be like vaults in fo76

nimble pond
#

Kinda hoping for more involvement with the crew itself.. combat, roles, jobs. You could have a crew entirely built up of fire mages if you wanted to. And focus on other things besides the ship itself, like the surrounding areas and how they can be used as well for combat and other things

#

Submarines would be cool too

#

Maybe even magical ships that can perform certain abilities, not just your simple wood ships

orchid thicket
#

When I think of navel combat I picture Black Flag

#

(the Assassins creed title)

nimble pond
#

Thats what I mean, I hope it offers more as a feature than what has already been done before..

orchid thicket
#

I agree, I would like on our own we can add small decor and a bit more inside the ship, but as for large upgrades you needs to go and head to the correct docks, and each can have different upgrades. differentiate it enough from the others

#

Give the player an extra reason to go and visit new places. usually the main story will leave out a few cities and locations

nimble pond
#

Yes and more reasons to go out on water by boat besides what is already traditional like travel and combat

orchid thicket
#

Go underwater and discover actual sea monsters can eat you

#

Think twice before searching that shipwreak you heard about

weary quiver
#

Hopefully we finally get dynamic economies with shipping

cinder idol
weary quiver
#

a lumber mill town in a forested region should buy and sell wood cheaply

weak sapphire
#

Take a 4x approach to it, and have prices be based on the number of trade sources. You can then have a system that disrupts those sources, allowing the Player to fix the problem (by clearing out the threat) or capitalisng on higher prices.

eager remnant
#

Skyrim's Trade And Barter mod does some interesting things with the economy that I think would be worth considering for a future game. A few of its features:

  • Merchant prices can vary depending on a variety of different factors, such as faction rank, relationship, and race.

*Location will effect prices. Goods will be cheaper in smaller towns and more expensive in larger cities.

*Merchants in major cities will have more gold than their small-town counterparts.

*Investing in merchants will increase the goods available in their inventories.

weary quiver
#

some interesting things. but i would like prices to change dynamically depending on what you buy and sell and different prices for different regions, like starflight, suikoden 2, railroad tycoon. might be even be a separate bulk shipping economy if we have ships. and hopefully wagon caravans 😛

nimble pond
#

I think different forms of currency besides septims would be cool. Even downright bartering items if they are in strong need at the time or perhaps collectors.

orchid thicket
#

In Fallout 76 they engine added multiple currencies. It's near impossible to change currently in Skyrim or Fallout4 in modding

#

There's like 5 in 76? So very likely we could see multiple currencies potentially, or if not and the multiple part stays for modders it'll make modding easier in new currencies

#

Rn Skyrim as Gold will only see gold as septims, and Fallout as Caps

weak sapphire
#

The basic model i've played with, conceptually, is this.

All items are classified by Goods Categories. You can have them as specific (apples, carrots, mutton) or as general (Foodstuffs) as you want.

Various sites Supply certain quantities of Goods. For instance, Riverwood Supplies 2 Foodstuffs, 2 Textiles, and 5 Lumber.

All populated sites Demand certain quantities of Goods. So, Windhelm demands 30 Foodstuffs, 15 Textiles, and 9 Lumber.

All sites are linked by Routes (typically the roads) and if a Route is ever disrupted (a related but separate system) sites can become cut off, removing that Supply from the network.

If Supply is higher than Demand, prices are low. If Demand is higher than Supply, prices are high.

#

This creates a system that does a few things.

First, disruptions to Routes gives you a platform for world interaction, through Radiant Quests but also through actual NPC interactions. If a problem gets bad enough, maybe the Guard gets sent out to clean up the problem.

Second, it creates a system which can be easily followed by the player, and interacted with, but whcih isn't entirely dependent on the Player directly.

And third, it creates new character opportunities.

magic tundra
#

While feature creep is how we got The Elder Scrolls in the first place (given that Arena was originally only intended to be an arena fighting game), it's still something to be wary of
You don't want to delay the release too much

weary quiver
#

I don't like the crzp ton of currency in 76. Makes me think too much and a sign of inelegant design

orchid thicket
#

It has uses and not. In modding rn adding a new currency, without replacing septims, is impossible without workaround scripts and such

#

I think there is a limit. Say have the option there and it gives people that want to use it a option

#

At least this is what I've seen in reguards to new currencies in modding

nimble pond
#

It would be great to be able to break down items as well. Like if I got an iron sword that really ain't worth the sell, especially if I got low speech skill, I'd probably get more value and use from it if I can smelt it back down to get a bit of iron.

weary quiver
#

maybe scrip for shipments might be cool

#

it kind of adds to the worldbuilding

magic tundra
#

scrib?

weary quiver
#

is there a trading company in tes lore?

weak sapphire
#

The East Empire Company is a major trading corporation

eager remnant
#

EDIT: Dammit, seconds too late!!

weak sapphire
#

Hah! Getting too old Pseron!

eager remnant
weary quiver
#

ninja'd

weak sapphire
#

Thats ok, we still love ya

weary quiver
#

yeah forgot about east empire, or more accurately buried in the recesses of my mind

#

likely took inspiration from east india company

weak sapphire
#

100%

wide garnet
#

I just started, and I’d like to show you all something. I’ve been working on a Dragon Age: Inquisition/The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim crossover that explores the consequences of the magic from the Anchor (the Inquisitor’s glowing, green hand) interacting with the “magic” of an Elder Scroll.

Here’s what I’ve got down so far, since it’s not finished yet: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13316258/1/Dragon-Age-The-Lost-Scrolls

fringe path
#

What's your main mechanic you want overhauled for future TES titles?

weary quiver
#

melee combat should be intrinsically fun, which is usually not the case in an rpg

#

and destruction magic should not require l33t aiming skillz

weak sapphire
weak sapphire
#

Most other things i think just require expansion, not an overhaul

weary quiver
#

reworked animation for starfield and beyond should be interesting

wide garnet
weary quiver
#

there was also the dutch east india company, and iirc there were earlier dutch trading companies before that, and other renaissance era trading companies

weak sapphire
#

Yeah, major trading conpanies were pretty big during the renaissance

#

Their growing power is what ended up disrupting a lot of Europe's monarchies

weary quiver
#

not too dissimilar to major tech companies of today

eager remnant
fringe path
#

I'd like mounted combat to really be reworked. Full cavalry charges. Pitched battles and the like. Naval combat would be fun too but definitely not necessary

weary quiver
#

I would like to pick plants while mounted

orchid thicket
#

I'll start the Dwemer trading Corperation and only sell people Dwemer coins

#

You think I'd market and sell Animunculi but no, just Dwemer coins

#

The TES Stock Market begins

fringe path
#

Overall all of my asks are that movement (vertical, horizontal, mounted, or otherwise) sees real changes, melee combat gets reworked, and attributes come back. I can take or leave greater weapon variety, and skill points best be left out of video games. I just want the movement and combat to be fun, and for there to be a greater level of depth to character building. Some great middle ground between Skyrim's character build system and Oblivion's

#

No skill points tho please it's absolutely no fun to make abstract numbers go up

orchid thicket
#

Acrobatics are gone because they serve exploitation mostly

#

Jump across the map

weak sapphire
#

Eh, while i like the concept of Attributes, Oblivion's handling of then was stupid

weak sapphire
fringe path
wide garnet
orchid thicket
#

The coolest part of it is the backflips

weak sapphire
#

Integrate Climbing and Parkour into them, and you've got a more functional amd rounded concept

fringe path
weary quiver
#

Acrobatics should give you new combat moves

weak sapphire
#

For Acrobatics (trying to pick 1 topic at a time, since I'm on a phone) I'd roll Acrobatics and Athletics into one skill

#

From there, you have Running, Climbing, Acrobatics, Swimming as branches within the Athletics Skill

#

That said, i do favour limited use of Skill Point systems. Nothing like older Fallouts, but more like Skyrims

weary quiver
#

i want to start the argonian assemblage trading company

wide garnet
orchid thicket
magic tundra
#

Acroletics

wide garnet
#

😕

weary quiver
wide garnet
# weak sapphire I will check it out as soon as i get back to my computer

I’ve also got an Idea Archive on the forums for ideas for Creation Club. Here’s the link if you want to look at them:

https://bethesda.net/community/topic/407315/my-creation-club-ideas-archive?language%255B%255D=en&language[]=en

Bethesda.net Community Forums
Bethesda.net Community Forums

The official Community site for Bethesda, publisher of Fallout, DOOM, Dishonored, Quake, Skyrim, Wolfenstein, The Elder Scrolls, more.

fringe path
wide garnet
cinder idol
fringe path
#

Ah

#

Also who got you all to warm up to enhanced movement/parkour in TES haha

#

Last time I suggested it I got clowned on big time

orchid thicket
weak sapphire
fringe path
#

Ah ok cool

cinder idol
#

I've always been into enhanced movement, jumping over rooftops to escape the guards after killing some affluent merchant sounds fun.

orchid thicket
#

I've seen the Skyrim fall animation too many times

weary quiver
#

i find parkour generally not fun

wide garnet
weary quiver
#

parkour is trespassing

weak sapphire
#

I'm not a fan kf actual Parkour in games, like Mirrors Edge

#

But i use it to discribe a range of enhanced mobility options i think would be useful

fringe path
#

Sprint-slide, vaulting over obstacles, and pulling yourself onto ledges would open the devteams up to really go crazy in terms of city and dungeon design. It would put all TG/DB quests at a serious advantage over the older games simply by making you feel more like a sneaky thief

fringe path
weak sapphire
#

Get it? Because he's something that rhymes with sick?

weak sapphire
#

Also, here's a question for you Bot... what if i want to talk about belived 1930s era detective comic D ick Tracey? Huh? HUH?

#

I can't call him Richard, it's never been established to be his name

#

Also, hot opinion, D ick Tracey 1990 is a better movie than Sin City.

nimble pond
#

Error-errot, bot overload data.. humans gone mad, initiate self-destruct sequence.

#

To be fair I still get stuck in crevices and dwemer steam pipes all the time spamming the jump button. It's like being a fat Mario

#

Kinda wish they had implemented a shout/spell where you could launch yourself and levitate for a few secs for particularly that reason so I didn't have to reload a previous save to get unstuck.

nimble pond
# fringe path Sprint-slide, vaulting over obstacles, and pulling yourself onto ledges would op...

Pretty much. That's what I would do with and just add some perks in the already established sneak skill grouping. Just some basic action animations you can perform as well as in certain situations (contexual) like if you wanted to scale a building. People argue in Skyrim that you can just jump everywhere, but you can't actually do that to climb up on some buildings and get on the roof. Things like that and whatnot.

#

Even for some time of playing Skyrim there have been instances where I would have liked to climb a tree with my archer character for some combat approaches and better viewpoints. Like with what I've heard in the Bosmer archer lore.

limpid zealot
#

Something's been bothering me for nearly 10 years now....

Morrowind: With this jumpsuit, I can leap over all of Vvardenfell in a single bound!

Oblivion: With the Boots of Springheel Jak and Acrobatics, I can jump to the roof of my house!

Skyrim: I can... just about hop onto this knee-high ledge?

TES VI: https://i0.wp.com/www.rachelleb.com/images/2006_05_22/worm.jpg

nimble pond
#

Hammerfell rockworms confirmed.

#

If a fat Italian plumber can do it..

nimble pond
plush sapphire
#

Slowly, we reach peak evolution. The worm 🪱

weak sapphire
#

Naw

#

Crabs

#

For some reason, things keep evolving into crabs

nimble pond
weak sapphire
#

A fat guy in a thong?

#

Can we even have that in chat?

#

Maybe we should rapidly progress the conversation so this gets lost before anyone sees it and makes a decision on that point

#

Also, guess what

#

Chicken butt

#

Also, i appear to jabe succumbed to the heat, and fallen to Chaos Undivided. Which is Chaos United, ehich means Chaos without war, WHICH CANNOT STAND.

#

And am thusly totally mad.

hazy glacier
hazy glacier
sharp edge
#

👀

weak sapphire
weak sapphire
#

Anyway, I've spent the last hour unsubbing from youtube channels in response to peopme whining about the new Masters of the Universe, and need to do something more constructive than listen to grown children cry over decent female characters, SO...

#

The combat issue.

#

The problem with combat in TES, and most RPGs for that matter, is it lacks any sort of moment by moment tactical decision making.

The core of an RPG is knowinf what characters can do, what situations require, and how to apply a character to that situation.

In almost all RPGs, its just a matter of hitting attack until something stops moving. 'Character' elements are usually limited to Abilities that intermix the normal flow of smacking something in the face.

weak sapphire
#

Gameplay at its core needs to be engaging, and RPGs require you to interact with character options, so for a true RPG combat system you need it to be engaging and allow for as broad a range of characterisations as possible.

Tbis goes beyond what weapons you use, and includes HOW you use them and in what situations. It should be more than 'I have a Rapier, i fight X way'. It should be 'I have a rapier, my enemy is in plate armour, i have to approach the problem X way'. Encourage thinking like the character, rather than thinking like the player.

#

Combat should be part puzzle, recognising the tools and abilities at your disposal, those of your opponents, and creating a plan to deal with the problem.

And at its core, the current system (in most RPGs) is fundimentally unable to do that

#

To this end, the game needs 3 things.

1: proper dodge mechanics. Vermintide is a fantastic example here.

2: direct control of attacks. No attack cycling prompting animation cancelling or anything of the sort. We need to have control over HOW we attack, and when. An Analogue system could easily handle up to 9 different attack types, but a sime Tap-Hold system giving us Thrust and Swing would already double our options and serve to greatly diversity combat.

3: functional and predictable control options. First off, there is a tendency with RPGs to have Chance Based interactions. Stop that. Its impossible to really plan around the blessing of Nuffle. Clear reactions with clear variables. For instance, a Stagger System with increasing levels. 1 triggerd the system, 2 interupts you with a stumble, 3 staggers you, 4 knocks you down. Attacks or abilities with multiple levels allow you to have more battlefield control and predictably, but resistances create new variables to discover and account for.

spice whale
#

i'd just go with different combat styles. wanna do ninja catwheels with that wakizashi. no matter hitting a dragon or bunnies

weak sapphire
#

But then you're just picking a trope and going with it. There's nothing thoughtful or engaging about it.

#

The worst part of RPGs as a whole is just how little your character actually means. Your character just defines a box you interact in, it doesn't actively engage with anything else

spice whale
#

BGS let their players sneak in power armor and punch dragons with fists, i dont think they'd choose some hardcore melee mechanics over this freedom frankly

weak sapphire
#

I don't expect then to make anything but barely functional gameplay mechanics either. If we were talking about what we expect them to do, then Skyrim would be the pinacle of game design

spice whale
#

well i guess phrasing it like 'what game needs' isnt exactly fitting then

#

wonder what would it be like if TES games had old school classes , each with custom animation set

weak sapphire
#

Generic, i suspect

spice whale
#

ninja tricks for nightblade, heavy roaring for barbarians and such. if Daggerfall went different way

#

there's better word, classic 👍

weak sapphire
#

The older i get, the less i care for classic approaches.

#

Classic solutions and philosophies never solve problems, or expand options. They just rely on the same comfortabke approaches and the same tired ideas.

#

We, not only as gamers, but as a species, need to constantly strive for more, to be better.

#

There is no such thing as 'Good enough', no such thing as 'The proper way'.

weary quiver
#

the only really good melee combat game i played was state of decay, and the best aspects were the area sweeps and extra physics damage from being flung onto a wall, off a porch, etc.,

#

old school games like river city ransom also had fun melee combat, although really simplistic they were viscerally pleasing

#

more involved melee combat in assassin creed and dying light miss the mark, they have ideas that are good conceptually

fringe path
#

Dishonored 2 melee is GOATed I will die on this hill

#

I haven't played Dark Messiah don't @ me

weak sapphire
#

Both are servicable, but not great

fringe path
#

Umm no it's definitely better than serviceable

#

In 1 on 1 duels Dishonored feels so right

#

The enemies block and play dirty and all attacks do substantial damage given or received

weary quiver
#

other thing state of decay did well is the hording and array of complementary enemy types , like a special tanky enemy, fast high damage enemy, harmless screamer that attracts hordes, and bloaty gas guy that explodes and drains your stamina and health and creates emergent dyanamic moments

#

left for dead and bordlerlands also does the latter well. beth kind of sort of tries to do it but not too successfully, for example you have shooter and melee supermutants, suiciders and hounds

weak sapphire
#

And State of Decay is serviceable against hordes, and in 3rd person, but not in smaller numbers or first person

fringe path
#

Is there a way to program the AI differently based on camera orientation? Like make it so they won't attack you from the back in first person but in third person they'll surround you

#

That's a dumb question I just realized

weak sapphire
#

You can, but it could end up with issues with switching states too frequently which could cause the AI to bug out. The most secure approach would be to restrict camera changes to out of combat

fringe path
#

Valid

weak sapphire
#

Ideally, you want a system which works just as well in first person and third, so the AI doesn't have to adjust

#

First Person generally favours precision and control, while Third favours style and area awareness.

#

Vermintide has one of the best melee combay systems ive played, but its still not perfect. Its emphasis on mkstly horde combat makes its 1 on 1 encounters, mostly boss fights, pretty bland.

#

Dishonoured skews the other way, as far as first person goes

#

On the 3rd perso scale, State of Decay is great for hordes, whole For Honour is great for 1 on 1.

fringe path
#

I think you'd solve the problem with more environmental hazards

weak sapphire
#

So, how do you take the elements of all 4, and combine them into a versatile system that works just as well in first person and thrid?

fringe path
#

We're also ignoring the fact that Dishonored and Vermintide don't have perk trees

weak sapphire
#

Yeah. Nor are they particularly heavy on the RPG side of things

#

So, there's a lot to factor in.

#

The system I've come to favour is thus.

Tap for Thrust. A single target attack that it quick and precise.

Hold to Swing. A sweeping attack which can potentially hit multiple opponents, but is slower.

This allows you to create diferentation amongst weapons directly, both between weapon types and within them. A rapier is going to function different than a Saber, for instance.

fringe path
#

I'd say tap for cut and hold for thrust

weak sapphire
#

You then have 'Techniques' which are basically Powers attached to a secondary command (Right Bumper or Alt) and include things like Power Attack

fringe path
#

That way you can better aim your strong attack

weak sapphire
#

Maybe. My thought was quick-command for Quick-Attack

#

But you could swap them as needed

fringe path
#

Well the way Dishonored 2 does it is you hold down the attack command to prepare the thrust and you release to actually execute

#

That could give options for faking out enemies like in For Honor cause you could pull back for a thrust and then cancel and go for a cut

weak sapphire
#

True

#

And with a Location Damage system, may give you morw precision both in 3rd and 1st person

fringe path
#

Movement should also factor in big time

#

One of my favorite things about how Arkane does melee is how many approaches the game offers you to attack enemies

weary quiver
#

beth needs a new engine for spears

fringe path
#

You can blink into a kick for example or do drop takedowns or sprint then slide to knock them over or stab them in the pancreas

fringe path
weary quiver
#

i kind of would like a system where the left analog stick controlling your left arm and the right your right

fringe path
#

Skyrim has that I thought

#

We need throwables again imo

#

And I'm still kinda miffed that nobody else fights you from horseback in any TES games

weak sapphire
#

The only useful throwable weapon is a spear

#

Come at me Ninja-Bros!

wide garnet
weak sapphire
fringe path
weak sapphire
#

Yeah, and we ARE talking fantasy, so s little wiggle room is always available

fringe path
#

Absolutely I mean have you seen the weapons in Skyrim?

#

Practicality went out the window years ago

weary quiver
#

a magic system with different left and right arm movements cast different spells

weak sapphire
#

At the end of the day, my point is...

Classic solutions to combat in RPGs rely on a shallow premise. My character is X, and i fight like X.

#

They SHOULD be: My character is X, and fights like A, B and C. My enemy is Y. Therefore i should approach him like C.

#

It creates wider ranges for characterizations and variables, creates more varied and engaging gameplay, and actively rewards thoughtful gameplay.

#

People aren't just tropes that force their way through life in a single paradigm. They use those paradigms to influence their decisionmaking, and RPGs should reflect that.

fringe path
#

Let me attack mid-jump dangit!

spice whale
#

sooo if i walk around Skyrim picking flowers, armed only with say katana and the dragon attacks out of nowhere, how do i kill it? must i flee and look for i dunno, Dragonbane Battleaxe? or i shouldn't get close at all, with all those big teeth and all, i should find a bow with big arrows?

fringe path
#

I wanna feel like Legolas when I make a ranger and currently it is very difficult to do that haha

weary quiver
#

strider was a ranger does not seem legalos was

fringe path
spice whale
#

Legolas - in Hobbit <3 hook to that birdy and shoot things from above

weak sapphire
spice whale
#

that sounds cinematic

weak sapphire
#

Against a heavily armoured opponent, on the other hand, you probably favour parries and thrust, since your slashes wouldn't be particularly useful.

spice whale
#

aaand if i'm khajiiti monk, master of hand-to-hand combat...

weak sapphire
#

Well, clearly you punch the Dragon in the mouth

spice whale
#

tear its eyes!

weak sapphire
#

More seriously though, yeah. Soft spots where your punches are more likely to do mire damage. Problem being you have to make sure you're careful, hecause those soft spots are also the most dangerous.

spice whale
#

and now we need to sell it to 90 y.o streamers

weak sapphire
#

If you're a heavily armoured knight with a spear, you may not worry about getti g close tk a dragons snapping jaws. But getting too close to a knife wheilding assassin that can get between your plates... that's something else

#

The goal (on higher difficultues anyway, on Novice you can just smaxk things till they stop moving) is to make players think about their characters and their situations, and create solutions from those toolsets.

Rather than just always solving every problen the same way.

#

As it stands, in Skyrim, it doesn't matter if you're a Knight or a Pugilist or an Assassin or a Barbarian. Every Dragon Fight plays out the same way. Run in, smack dragon

spice whale
#

shoot it with arrows in the air, force it to land and punch it, blast it with lightings, summon Aureal archers, play coward and lure it into stormcloaks camp \o/

nimble pond
#

As long as I can create a fat guy player character and perform the "stink-face" finishing move on killcam upon my enemies, I'm golden.

#

Or stuff a stinky sock down a dragon's mouth till he taps out

fringe path
#

Yikes

weary quiver
fringe path
#

I really hope they redesign the scimitars if we go to Hammerfell

#

Skyrim's looked super goofy to me

orchid thicket
#

They look like toy party swords

hazy glacier
#

You see those warriors from Hammerfell? They’ve got curved swords. Curved. Swords

fringe path
orchid thicket
#

I'd also think Todd, since last we knew he is a huge Redguard fan, would have better looking Scimitars

#

The sword design looks odd at best in Skyrim

nimble pond
spice whale
#

what i could definitely use is TES games is some alternative ways for healing. like adrenaline or something, for timely blocking or brutal kills. tried playing heavy armor non-magicka type on legendary in Skyrim and the amount of healing potions i drank, it was ridiculous

#

i don't imagine health bar as some indicator for bleeding-wounded-barely alive thing, for me it's more like well-being. low hp means nausea, ringing in the ears, dizziness, not open cuts and broken limbs, like

weary quiver
#

hp's are an artifact from table top rpg. what are we big slime molds that gets chunks taken out of us when a orc slashes us with its curved sword?

spice whale
#

orc misses 👍

#

assassins creed games tried to work without hp bar and got back to it anyway

magic tundra
weak sapphire
wide garnet
weak sapphire
#

Lasguns and Shields, not even once

wide garnet
nimble pond
weak sapphire
#

I ahve Dune on the brain

#

I want the Alik'r to just be Fremen, 100%

nimble pond
#

Yes, I remember you talking about Dune a month or few ago lol

weak sapphire
#

The newest trailer reinvigorated my excitement

cinder idol
# weary quiver the only really good melee combat game i played was state of decay, and the best...

The combat and how everything tires your characters out just made me use cars instead when I could, honking the horn next to an infestation site then continually ramming into them until they all died and maybe jumping out just to whack the screamer. The combat itself fell victim to relying on holding down the sprint button to flatten the heads of zombos prone on the ground as well as stunlocking opponents. Not sure how it'd graduate from knocking over atrophied walking corpses to genuine threats though, I'd guess the same as fighting those big boys who take like 15 minutes of constant gunfire to die.

cinder idol
cinder idol
weary quiver
#

I play breakdown so cars are scarce. Haven't played di in a while, but I recall combat being conventional and largely forgettable?

cinder idol
grizzled lagoon
weak sapphire
#

That depends entirely on who you talk to.

#

Some people say yes, others (myself included) say no. Because Races are dumb.

grizzled lagoon
#

Personally, I agree with you. It could be as simple as role-playing a character who genetically just didn't get the genes for magic-user passed down to them lol

weak sapphire
#

We do see an Altmer in ESO who has no magical aptitude at all.

#

He's much better with a sword than he is at any sort of magic

grizzled lagoon
#

It makes for more diversity and more interesting races IMO

weak sapphire
#

Agreed. Social norms are one thing, but imposing biological imperatives has a tendency to hav the total opposite impact that it should

weary quiver
#

im og d&d player, so a level 1 orc shooting electricity from his finger tips deeply offends my refined rpg sensibilities

grizzled lagoon
#

For sure! And expanding on this idea from a gameplay standpoint, it would be really cool if we started out with no knowledge of magic, archery or swordplay and actually had to join the related guild to first unlock the ability (maybe a starter quest) then train it further (guild-specific quests and training) until mastering it.

It's not that simple to implement I'm sure, but I guess what I'm going for is I want to start the game with my character being very green in the ways of combat and/or magic

weary quiver
#

restriction and limit is the acme of design, the art of the true architect

weak sapphire
#

I am also what yu would call an 'OG D&D player'... And i for one am immensly happy that they've finally moved away from the whole "Orcs are evil savages" nonsense

weary quiver
#

i like feral tolkien orcs, adds 'diversity'. i also like psychotically evil matriarachal dark elves that worship and sacrafices to a hideous spider b**** goddess

weak sapphire
#

And having them isn't wrong, but imposing those sorts of identities is. Deciding "Nope, you're an Orc, you're Chaotic Evil" is something that DM's ahve always made house rules to reject, so why bother enforcing those concepts at all? And why not develop those races to be, you know... As diverse as the only real race example we have.

#

A major problem i've always had in basically all Fantasy and Science Fiction literature is the homogeneity of other races. It makes no sense.

weary quiver
#

individuals being good like drizzt duorden is ok and cool, but not the whole society being a bland kind of neutral like tes tends to do

weak sapphire
#

Why can't there be a mountain tribe of Orcs who worship Pelor, and beleive in safeguarding tomes ot knowledge?

#

Each and every race deserves the same sort of diversity as Humans get

#

Good and evil, smart and stupid.

eager remnant
weary quiver
#

a small counter faction of good in a 'evil race' would be ok. but i do like my extreme evil races like orcs, dark elves, grey dwarves, illithid etc.,

weak sapphire
#

So do i. But enforcing 'Evil' is something else entirely

#

Except for Planars, they follow fundimentally different rules

grizzled lagoon
nimble pond
# weak sapphire Some people say yes, others (myself included) say no. Because Races are dumb.

I think it's more a culture thing. Like some have distinct accents and abilities learned from their homeland and what its notorious for. But this is assuming every race is from and grew up in their province and not in another. So I don't see it as race at all. That or some weird game lore where depending on your species you just automatically absorb those abilities and instincts no matter where you or born or raised? It's a video game, course it don't make sense.

#

But like y'all talking bout orcs being evil or not evil. I mean this is in game world, how do you know they are innately evil or not? They can be whatever we think them to be. That's why this sort of discussion is better for real world social talk. Trying to apply too much human reality to a fictional game world. 🤷‍♂️

noble verge
#

I've always felt that stuff like "always chaotic evil" should only be applied for races like fiends who are literally the physical embodiment of evil, or Mindflayers, whose basic physiology requires them to commit evil acts just to eat and reproduce.

At least in Forgotten Realms, Drow already had the followers of Eilistraee while the Orcs had the Kingdom of Many-Arrows, so I never considered them "always chaotic evil".

cinder idol
wanton violet
#

on other hand, it make min/maxer happy to have racial bonus to work with their planned build

cinder idol
wanton violet
#

meh, in d&d i picked what i wanted. wanted to be a kobold warrior? -4 str? who care, there plenty of magic buff and feat to basically cancel a -2 atk and damage in melee, even at lower level

cinder idol
wanton violet
#

did something similar (still used a melee when needed) but did a merchant/rogue lite dunmer who favored crossbow too. was a pain to get at low level though

cinder idol
#

...That would be a kinda fun skill in Blades I think, a crossbow shot that's ranged like spells and fires in an instant but has a cooldown (not sure what to say as Skyrim's crossbows reload quicker than any skill/spell in Blades).

wanton violet
#

even today i still ignore racial bonus, playing eso, currently argonian are my favourite race (since for first time i find them to look decent instead of fugly) but if i would follow all those guides, they're the worst race ever, can work as healer but think there still better choice for that role if one was to min/max to last %

cinder idol
#

Racial bonuses are just kinda bad, especially these days where they're just not that useful. Khajiit have it the best it seems because their claws are better than swords and they have Night Eye while Imperials... Can say words at enemies real good? High Elves get slight magicka regen and max magicka? Redguards get outclassed by every other race a slight stamina regen that can be replicated with a bowl of soup? It's sad.

wanton violet
#

i know in eso high elve are number 1 magic user because more mana and especially bonus magic damage, khaajiit for stealth and orc for physical damage. heard imperial can be good with some class thank to their ability to reduce cost of their abilities. meanwhile i picked argonian because i like swim speed,the alchemy bonus that make me feel better using potions and the tail waggling xD

cinder idol
#

Odd, in Blades it's the Dark Elves with better spell damage. I guess they can't make up their minds. Also swim speed sounds cool but until they reintroduce water based combat Argonians aren't going to be as effective as they once were.

weak sapphire
dim reef
#

Altmer being good at magic is just a social construct

cinder idol
dim reef
#

Oh no…

#

They are aren’t they

orchid thicket
#

"I'm late for work." Freeze time with my voice and get there quicker

#

Or spam Whirlwind Sprint

dim reef
#

Whirlwind sprint is great when you’re over encumbered

orchid thicket
#

Use the shout, wait an hour and repeat Umm

weary quiver
#

resctriction and limit is the acme of design, a bland melange of races that are all pretty much the same is terrible design

cinder idol
cinder idol
weary quiver
#

and differrent playstyles should be incorporated in different races, like khajit can jump further and take less fall damage

#

imagine if warhammer ridiculously made all the races more or less equal in total war or any of their products - would not be shocked if they did nowadays though

weak sapphire
#

It does. All Elves wre more or less the same, Stat wise. Its their cultures that differ. 'Race' doesn't exist in Warhammer, though Species does

#

And they do better with those species than most franchises.

#

TES doesn't have that divide od species though

weary quiver
#

elves tend to be the same in most franchises, but not an elf and an orc

#

and race and species is nebulously used and interchangeable in fantasy. i do think some people tend to mix concepts between irl and a fantasy franchise

#

and that has traditonally been why fantasy is the dominant genre in gaming, it has distinct races that are placeholders for different abilities and perks (and magic being the other factor). for example fo always suffered in comparison in that regard, where your classes are kind of samey

#

shadowrun just straight up used fantasy races

weak sapphire
#

Well, im from an anthropology background. I HATE the word Race at its core. It's an outdated concept that ultimately only existed as an attempt to catwgorise people, and it failed misserable to do so

#

But even the concept of Race as used in Fantasy is clunky and often superficial. It drives identity rather than simply being part of it.

#

You give me literally any Fantasy race, and ill make a dozen cultured out of ot

weary quiver
#

to be as technically correct as possible, human is a species while redguard, nord, breton are different races. similarly elves are a species and dark, high, wood are races. but again terms are often interchangeably used in fantasy

magic tundra
#

so, what is argonian?

weary quiver
#

argonian is a species i assume without any different sub races, unless there is some more detailed lore out there

weak sapphire
#

Likely still Ehlnofex, as all living things on Nirn descend from the Ehlnofey except for the Hist

weak sapphire
#

So, the species is Ehlnofey. But then, ALL living things, plant and animal, descend from the Ehlnofey

weary quiver
#

but humans and elves were separate creations of crom! yes things get dicey in a fantasy setting where you have magic

weak sapphire
#

Which is why we ultimately have to discard real world mechanisms and look at the universe its self.

Stated behaviours are unreliable, in a setting where racism, stereotype and bias are clearly established.

So we need to look at the individuals themselves, and build our evaluation based on the demographics present directly.

eager remnant
#

I agree that limitations are important in roleplaying. But this raises an important question for me: who gets to impose the limitations? Some think developers should impose limitations on the player. I think the player should impose their own limitations. To me, roleplaying is the art of creative self-limitation.

I don't want a developer imposing one-size-fits-all rules on every character of a race that I play. Only I am qualified to set the limitations on each character I play, because only I know the limitations of my own characters.

In short, I believe a roleplaying game should encourage diversity, not impose conformity. Homogeneous, one-size-fits-all stats for races imposes uniformity, which is the exact opposite of what a good roleplaying game should do, in my opinion.

weary quiver
#

thats to sociological and realistic, different abilities for different 'races' because gameplay

weak sapphire
#

Which brings us to Pseron's point. If you're desiging for gameplay, then Racials only serve to limit the range of character options

weary quiver
#

i loved the fact that warlords battlecry only the dark elves had spiders that could lay eggs in corpses to produce more spiders

#

which would be an awesome perk for tes

weak sapphire
#

Yes, i don't disagree there. But i can think of 4 seperate cultures already it could apply to

#

Breton Wyrds, Dunmer Ashlanders, Bosmer tribals, and Imperials from the Blackmarsh colonies

dim reef
#

theres a weird theme i noticed where they keep trying to compare them to daedra

weak sapphire
#

I think they just compare a lot of things tk Daedra

nimble pond
#

I'm kinda curious to see a Deadra spin-off. Like you can play as one of the Daedric princes and the storyline could either be new lore writing or maybe explore some of the time in creation of the world and all that.

dim reef
#

i kinda feel like if you played as a daedric prince the game would play like civilization

orchid thicket
#

I could picture something like the Star Wars Kinect game, without the Kinect ofc, where you can be that monster and go on a rampage. Change it to a Daedric Prince on a rampage or something

#

That would be awesome in VR mentioning it, swing their weapons and stuff

dim reef
#

daedric princes are funky

#

i don't think you could actually function if you got to be one

orchid thicket
#

Be Dagon when they were fighting the Avatar of Akatosh

#

only use your axe because those funky Wolverine claws are only for show

nimble pond
#

Yea the spin-off idea just kinda spurred up when I noticed the on-going trend of Daedra DLC.. like Sheogorath in Oblivion DLC and Hermaeus Mora in Skyrim DLC. Given that, if they follow that trend, what Daedric Prince do you suppose they'll use next for DLC content?

orchid thicket
#

I'd like to see more of Peyrite

#

I don't think he's even used in ESO. Yea in main games he always has a quest but

dim reef
#

peryite is great

nimble pond
#

Yes, I remember Peyrite being a hot-topic among the fan base during COVID2020. Certainly possible

orchid thicket
#

I'd also be pushing my luck to say I hope we can see Jyggalag's new realm. Providing he's making one. Kinda would give us an idea of what the Shivering Isles use to look like or what it could of looked like.

dim reef
#

you can do a lot with peryite but its hard to do so because he doesn't like to intervene

#

i'd like to see more namira tbh

orchid thicket
dim reef
#

peryite and namira

orchid thicket
#

They defiantly have enough realms to show us in DLC 😅

dim reef
#

Oh wait nvm we can’t see Peryite and namira’s realm… they won’t let us

#

Peryite is a secretive guy

#

And namira’s realm would kill you in two seconds

wide garnet
orchid thicket
#

I just want to steal Spellbreaker off Peyrite Vault200IQ

wide garnet
dim reef
#

Or just normal aggressive

#

Either way

orchid thicket
#

In my mod I have Volendrung in my Dwemer City till you beat the quest. It won't work if you already beat it prior to installing my mod tho

#

When Malacath gives it you, it vanishes

#

You can't pick it up, it's a static object

wide garnet
dim reef
#

@-@

#

No he’s making a mod about dwemer

#

Rip dwemer pride though

orchid thicket
#

it's all in a custom script, will only work if the quest is beaten with the content installed

#

My love of Dwemer is why I'm doing it

#

It's also cool to design a Dwemer city not in ruins

orchid thicket
#

On designing my Dwarf for ESO I thought to myself, "Why don't I project myself onto them, they are me as an extension?"

#

things just spiralled to why I'm building a mod

cinder idol
#

How many fork weapons are in the Elder Scrolls series? The Fork of Horripilation is in Morrowind and Oblivion and you can wield a regular fork in Skyrim. Am I missing any more?

fringe path
#

Nope not that I know of

balmy hedge
#

The handle on oblivions blade of woe

cinder idol
fringe path
#

Anyone down to wager on what we think will be in the CC drop this year?

reef hedge
#

if theres a cc drop, defo the necro arts and necro house packs

#

probably some more blades armour, likely orcish

orchid thicket
#

We'll get CC eventually

weary quiver
#

Any news on cc?

dim reef
#

Not that I heard of.

magic tundra
#

Any news about the other provinces?

weak sapphire
#

I wonder if Nirn has the equivalent of Flat Nirners

#

Maybe like, Anti-Magickers, who deny that Magic is real

nimble pond
#

Nirn is flat and magic is an abomination.

orchid thicket
#

Why use magic when sound can unravel the universe Umm

nimble pond
#

This land belongs to the true sons and daughters of Nirn, the bards.

cinder idol
magic tundra
#

Else God-Hater

#

NPC from Oblivion

cinder idol
#

That's the one. Either in Skingrad or Bravil from what I remember.

dim reef
#

she tried to kill me in my old playthrough

#

and i was devastated

cinder idol
#

Devastated as you had to kill the game's closest thing to an atheist or devastated as the guards dogpiled you?

dim reef
#

SPOILER:||she's a mythic dawn cultist||

cinder idol
#

||Erasing that from my mind so I can play it again with fresh eyes one day||

dim reef
#

||sorry for reviving that in your mind shy ||

cinder idol
#

||It's fine, you spoilered it as you should though maybe you should have added the words SPOILERS before the spoiler just in case. Specifying it's main quest would spoil it so just say character spoilers I guess. Thanks.||

weary quiver
#

i will call atheists god-haters from now on

cinder idol
#

Good.

weak sapphire
#

I mean, the Psijics don't really beleive in 'Gods' either

dim reef
#

Psijics are smart

dim reef
#

Pelinal whitestrake is a fun character

orchid thicket
#

I remembered the Shivering Isles because, well, Jyggalag made an impression on me

dim reef
#

Wish there was more on Jyggalag

#

I just like daedra stuff though so anything more on daedra would be helpful

orchid thicket
#

They've been giving hints but nothing solid yet. Some still think he is Sheo still

dim reef
#

So like, Jyggalag didn’t destroy everything and had human followers he didn’t murder. So he wasn’t complete perfect order

#

Unless he’ll murder them later

orchid thicket
#

I'd love to see what the Isles would of looked like back before he was cursed

#

Would give an idea of what his new realm might look like

dim reef
#

Maybe it would look like a bit of quartz

orchid thicket
#

I know a pure white room can send one mad, if it's just white crystals I'd imagine it'd be the same to the brain

#

I'd honestly picture a realm where everything is ordered and set in a singular function

#

idk, hopefully we get to see him for a quest

magic tundra
orchid thicket
#

I could see that, fits into what I could picture. I only say crystals because that's all he does with the isles in Oblivion

dim reef
#

It looks like overcast Italy

orchid thicket
#

It's quite plain, just seems like him. I can't imagine he wants automation in his realm because that destroys Order. A patrolling Jygg

weary quiver
#

i disliked shivering isles dlc

magic tundra
weary quiver
#

I didn't like it's acrylic 70s van side fantasy art style. Good ol forests of cyrodil for me

weak sapphire
#

I just didn't like Sheogorath

#

No menace, no threat. Just a silly scottish clown

#

Oblivion somehow managed to rob everything of any sense if fear and danger. Even zombies looked more goofy than anything.

orchid thicket
#

I like the idea of a god entity that is partially insane

#

If you go with CC content though even the god of madness can go truly mad, well the new one but

nimble pond
#

Random spell idea, mirror. Basically you point where you want to place the mirror so it opens up silently in the wall like a portal in the shape of a keyhole (as if you were looking thru it. Speaking of keyholes, make that a thing so you can tell if someone is in the house or awake before you sneak into it) without alerting enemies. In the other hand is the viewpoint from the keyhole portal you placed, like a mirror. So you can see ahead and scope out the area or see and access things you otherwise may not have been able to see or notice from a normal viewpoint.

#

Possibly be able to shoot projectiles from it too at enemies or to cause misdirection

magic tundra
#

I doubt the engine can hadle that

#

also, have you tried to look through a house door keyhole?

weary quiver
#

tes could use outright prying spells where its just a free floating camera you control

orchid thicket
#

If they made enough scripts for it, maybe it could work

nimble pond
#

And maybe a teleport spell, tho it has a lot magic drain so only enough for one b4 magic recharge so ur not just tping all over the place

orchid thicket
#

I see the TCL command as Levitation with no collision

#

add collision and make it a spell

dim reef
#

Oblivion felt like a colourful would filled with death and horror to me cause nearly every quest involved a friend dying at the end 😂

orchid thicket
#

Sheo is see as a madman, that isn't fully mad. Well idk about the Old Sheo, but I know in Skyrim's Jyggalag CC content Sheo forgot about Jyggalag to prevent him going insane

#

Oblivion as a whole has it's wacky moments but it kinda works. I only hate Oblivion gates

#

Oblivion gates are everywhere. I know it's the point, it's the reward

nimble pond
#

Also, sun magic, shoulda had a spell being able to just shoot this massive fiery beam, capable of penetrating thru to multiple enemies or two separate beams in each hand for more attack capability

magic tundra
nimble pond
#

Idk i just want some beam spells, I get tired of launching balls.

magic tundra
orchid thicket
#

I know why it was removed, just I have a weird view of the tcl command

#

Do we know who voiced him in Morrowind?

#

I think he has a voice in Morrowind 😅

magic tundra
#

I think he had two lines

orchid thicket
#

He's become very much the Mad Hatter

#

Given the Isles and his party table in Pelagius' Mind

magic tundra
#

I do like what they did with him in the Legends story, though
he was much more sinister there

orchid thicket
#

I'd love to know for sure who voiced Jyggalag, his section of the isles still gets me

#

For the few lines he has

#

I also like how Sheo, to me, starts going sane as he transforms into Jygglag in the DLC. He starts like getting hopeless about the whole thing

nimble pond
#

Maybe a decoy spell under illusion. Sends out a decoy of your character to attract enemies while you make an escape. Higher levels can send out multiple decoys in various directions all at once

orchid thicket
dim reef
#

Sheo’s always been funny cheese man

weak sapphire
dim reef
#

What would Sheo do other wise then?

magic tundra
#

make people mad

weak sapphire
#

Be an unpredictable manifestation of raw madness

magic tundra
orchid thicket
#

The way I see it is Sheo is a polar opposite of Jyggalag. or so the curse goes. Jyggalag became what he hated the most. Well the only reference to this is Jyggalag himself. Pure madness, so I guess the Mad Hatter is the first thing you think of when you think of someone who is mad. I do however think Sheo could be a bit more than just jokes and silliness.

#

Throw actual chaos into his actions and shake things up could go a long way

#

Old Sheo threw the Boulder that sat above Vivec right?

dim reef
dim reef
#

Dunno if there’s proof he actually did

orchid thicket
#

I know little on Sheo himself, I only know the legends and Jyggalag

dim reef
#

I dunno I see Sheo being perfect in shivering isles. He goes from angry to friendly within seconds and sends you to death traps to help him

weak sapphire
#

But his anger means nothing. Its i consequential. He shouldn't be threatening to play jumprope with your entrails, he should just DO IT.

Which is why we never should have been interacting through him anyway. Haskill is there, and should have been the intermediary

dim reef
#

He needs you though

#

Like, that’s the whole reason the door to his realm is there. He already had a gate keeper to kill off unworthy people

weary quiver
#

i really despised his quest in skyrim. i hate any quest that sends you to a different 'realm' like the painting in oblivion or the vr in fo3

eager remnant
#

I hated Sheogorath. I thought he was the most ineptly-written character in a game that is full of inept characterizations. He is a 13-year-old boy's idea of what "a mad guy" sounds like. It's embarrassingly juvenile writing, in my opinion.

In fact, I thought the entire expansion was embarrassing, to be honest. To me, it felt like shameless pandering. A few gamers criticized Cyrodiil for being "bland" and "generic". So Bethesda caved in and appeased them with a bit of nostalgic exoticism.

On a more positive note, I did think that New Sheoth was Bethesda's finest city to date. Even today I would rate it second only to Fallout 4's Boston as being Bethesda's most accomplished attempt to represent a city.

weak sapphire
weary quiver
#

how can anyone hate elsie god-hater

#

ongar the world weary was my favorite npc of all time

dim reef
#

And Peryite is the embodiment of natural order but he’s a dragon

#

I dunno

weak sapphire
orchid thicket
#

I have updated my Dwemer Vanishment calculations

nimble pond
weak sapphire
nimble pond
#

But I think just because someone is mad, ppl assume its automatically dark, chaos, serial killer type. But that's not true, madness comes in all kinds of different forms for different people (sometimes multiple forms for one), thats the point or it wouldn't be madness. It's quite possible Sheo may change yet again the next time we see him.

nimble pond
weak sapphire
nimble pond
weak sapphire
#

My core issue with Sheogorath's execution is what he represents on a cosmic scale. Mental states are not madness. That is an antiquated, frankly minimalist view of mental health.

What madness is, is the total lack of logic. The embodiment of chaos and a rejection of order. A God of Madness should be erratic, incomprehensible and terrifyingly alien.

#

Sheogorath should be more Cthulhu than... Whatever the hell he is in the games

nimble pond
#

False. You are trying to define or set to one degree what madness is expected to be when there is no such certainty. If madness is to be defined as having to be chaos and rejection of order as you say, then it is no longer madness. Whether he take the form of a scary Cthulhu, or a laughing cheese man, madness is madness whether you are simply inflicted with it or the embodiment of it. It's sort of the exception to the established rules, like the serpent constellation.

#

The only thing 'madder' than being mad is trying to define madness itself. 🤪

weak sapphire
#

My point is that Sheogorath is the shallowest, most insulting definition of Madness. It's a superficial, outdated mockery of Mental Illness, rather than any sort of cosmic manifestation or interesting expression of concepts.

#

He's boring. He's goofy. He's lame. And he's not even funny.

#

At the very LEAST, he should be like the Joker. Though even that's a little on the uninspiring side

#

He should be the sort of entity you ahve to be truly deranged to even consider consorting with. The sort of god that's as likely to skin you alive as even talk to you. Who acts on erratic whims and flights of fancy with no thought or concern for those around him.

#

Even if he HAS moments of lucidity, they should be terrifying and calculating, then disappear into fits of erratic behaviour.

#

All of which makes Haskill an even more important component to the Madgod.

nimble pond
#

I think you're just trying to say you hold your own vision of what madness should be or should look like (even though it doesn't work that way) and Sheo's current form at that time (however long he decides to keep it) simply did not line up with your vision of it?

weak sapphire
#

Absolitely. Which i can usually deal with, but it ended up just being SO dull and uninspiring i couldn't

#

But that sums up Oblivion as a whole. Dull and uninspiring

weak sapphire
#

Even with Nights of the Nine, it took until ESO before they actually did anything interesting with the implications that Meridia may not be all that 'Good'. Nights of the Nine just mentioned Umaril being her champion, and then pretty much washed it's hands of Meridia's involvement

nimble pond
#

If Sheogorath was anything but the Daedric Prince of madness, then yeah, maybe so. But I think he plays his part adequately in the realm of madness.

#

But it sounds more like you are describing a God of madness (which if there was, it'd probably be like a God of mind diseases or something, madness just being one of it's inflictions. Sheo being the most notorious manifestation of it if he was the first in the lore to be born of it afaik.. Don't know if any such case occurred before Jyggalag. "Sheo is already inside each of us, we have already lost"). But Daedra princes are not gods, even if some worship them as such.

weak sapphire
#

They are gods. They are cosmic manifestations born out of the fabric of the Aurbis its self.

#

The Princes are, for the most part, et'Ada, fundamental expressions of primordial reality.

#

Sheo and Mora may not be et'ada (not being 'Firstx) but they are themselves on the same level. One of Sheogorath's creation stories has him being born out of the impossible, the death of a god.

Some have even reconciled the 2 conflicting origins as the other Princes forcing Jyggalag into that gaping wound in the Aubris

#

The Princes in general should be offputting and uncomfortable to deal with. These aren't just powerful people, they're cosmic beings.

nimble pond
#

To me they're more like hell's generals.

#

If they were gods, they should be called such, not Daedra Princes. To me, it's a lesser form on the ranking table, if not a lesser god if we must call them that.

weak sapphire
#

They're et'Ada, regardless of their alignment. Its like Zeus and Semele, what we see are conve ient avatars for interacting with fundimentally lesser beings

nimble pond
#

There is still a ranking system. Even Jyggalag was once one of the most powerful Daedra princes and feared by other Daedra Princes.

#

And that's just within the realm of Daedra..

weak sapphire
#

The Tribunal were gods. Does that make them superior to the Daedric Princes?

nimble pond
#

They kinda make me think of representations of sin. Thats why I associate them as hell's generals in a sense and not full gods. Even tho some of them like Meridia don't sound too evil. Although I really couldn't say the way she goes about things sometimes is exactly divine either..

#

Yes, and some people choose to see and worship Talos as a "god" apparently.

weak sapphire
#

Well, because he is.

#

Because god, with a little g, is a pretty fluid term

#

Like, look at it in the context of Greeks. The Primordials, Titans and Olympians were all gods

nimble pond
#

Lil g, big G, it seems the term gets thrown around alot loosely in the game world.

weak sapphire
#

Just different groups of them.

Daedric Princes, Aedra, Magn-Ge, Tribunal... they're all gods, just different groups of them.

#

Orthodox followers of the Divines reject the Princes as evil, sure, but they don't reject thejr divinity.

nimble pond
#

Thats how I see it. Daedra Princes are deities, but they are not Olympian gods..

weak sapphire
#

The information we have on them suggests otherwise.

#

Even Fa-nuit-hen's Dukes exhibit the essential characteristics of Olympian gods, including disassociating when spreading their power over thejr realms too far

#

Daedra aren't concrete, physical beings like mortals. Their spirits and essence and idea, unbound by time and space, who choose to limit themselves to deal with mortals

#

Fa-nuit-hen even clearly establishes that Time as mortals percieve it doesn't exist in Oblivion, and the masters of realms actively simulate it becasue Mortals struggle to function in the truth of Oblivion

#

So, even the lowliest denizens of Oblivion follow the Olympian True Form concept.

nimble pond
#

What are we even debating about? You said you expected Sheo to be on a more cosmic scale of representation, I said there could be a higher form for that purpose as Daedra Princes really don't seem all that god-like or powerful as what you were describing with a God of Mind Diseases. And I'm saying Sheo is just a sub-form of that subject "maddness." Sure, Daedra are powerful like hells generals, but not the most powerful like top gods.

weak sapphire
#

I suppose that the Princes ARE that tier of representation, and hkw they're handled in general has been garbage

#

But Sheo in particular is just terrible.

#

The Mad Hatter would make a better Madgod

#

The real mad hatter, nkt Depp's one

nimble pond
#

I'm talking like Anu and Padomay, which Daedra Princes are a lesser form of P. And even tho it is depicted that Anu and Padomay are equals, I suspect Anu is the one true top God, while Padomay is equal, but only because it is the polar opposite of Anu, like a shadow. So I would suspect Padomay came after Anu who is sometimes depicted as the God of everything. But this is just my theory on this particular subject.

#

Never saw the Depp movie. How was it?

weak sapphire
#

The Anu and Padomay are more like Gaia and Uranus.

Then Godhead Anu is more like Chaos.

Which, in a similar scale, would make the et'Ada Titans... while gods like Talos are Olympians...

weak sapphire
nimble pond
#

They had two mad hatter depps? I had only heard of one before his career got ram-rodded into Oblivion

weak sapphire
#

There was a straight up Alice in Wonderland, which was ok. Then a terrible sequel whicb was a generic war for Wonderland

nimble pond
#

Ah, I see. Movie sequels almost always fall short

#

Is it just me or do the Daedra Princes in general just all come off as annoying, spoiled, bratty children? I just wanna CHIM them out of their immortality and all of existence entirely sometimes..

weak sapphire
#

I mean, most gods do

nimble pond
#

Lol, good point

noble verge
#

I don't see the Daedra as cosmic embodiments of concepts, just very powerful spirits that adopted gimmicks. Hermaeus Mora isn't omniscient, Sheogorath's theories about madness don't always pan out like he hoped, Hircine is not infallible as a hunter, and depending on what you consider to be canon, Sanguine has his limits.

weak sapphire
#

Being a god doesn't require omnipotence. Part of the whole conceptual divide between gods and mortals in most literature is a mortal's ability to grow beyond their limits.

#

A god of secrets can still have things hidden from them, or a god of debauchery still get squeemish

noble verge
#

Being a god does not make one an embodiment or representation of a concept, it merely means that one is powerful and influential enough to claim it as their domain.

weak sapphire
#

So, you would say that Zeus is not Thunder and lightning then?

noble verge
#

No. He is the son of a titan who overthrew his father and obtained the right to claim domain over the sky in a game of chance with Poseidon and Hades.

weak sapphire
#

Semele would disagree

noble verge
#

They were not born into those concept, they merely adopted them.

weak sapphire
#

Regardless of ehere mhe would end up ruling, his true nature would remain the same. He was the lightning in the storm and tje crash of thunder.

#

And revealing his true form to the mortal semele turned her to ash

#

This is the problem woth trying to apply flesh and blood concepts to inherently 'other' things.

#

Daedra, princes included, puppet bodies around, they aren't those bodies themselves. They are far more than that

nimble pond
#

I can make it rain over an anthill by pouring a glass of water over it, does that make me a god (of rain) to the ants?

noble verge
#

If a god was truly the embodiment of a concept, then they could not be outdone in it. But they can, and they do get outdone. If they get beat at their own game, then they and the game are not one and the same.

weak sapphire
#

Except, that they can't be outdone through normal means. No Ada can be more domineering than Bal. No Ada more secretive than Nocturnal. No Ada a better hunter than Hercine.

Bit the whole point of Mundus, of Mortals, is to trancend the limits of the concepts the Ada represent

#

That was the pitch. To create a place where those Ada could self reflect and come up with NEW ideas and new expressions.

#

Which, tangentally, probably serves the Princes themselves as well. Mortals do their things new and better, and eventually a mortal mantles a Prince, and that prince gets to absorb those 'improvements'

nimble pond
#

You're talking about Arden-Sul right? Who took Sheo's mantle

noble verge
#

The fact that they get outdone by mortals is proof that they're not infallible in their representation of a concept. I believe they're merely higher beings that had what it took to lay claim to domain over a concept, hold onto it against challengers, and construct their own realms, and several of them didn't start out as we now know them as.

#

I wouldn't be surprised if Daedra have warred for the right to claim something in their sphere.

nimble pond
#

N'gasta has an interesting quote on the subject: "Daedra were born before the stars, mortal. Do you consider that perhaps such names preceded, hence perhaps inspired, the concepts they connote."

#

But I'm also confused on this, I thought gods weren't born?

nimble pond
#

Interestingly enough, some of the Daedric princes are based on ancient pagan idols, that became associated with demons in Christianity. Also note in the Arena manual, there is a realm referred to as Netherworld being the home to a race of Daemons.

nimble pond
#

After browsing thru countless pages of lore on the subject from various sources, including Imperial Library, I'm at a loss for how much contradiction in of itself the game lore contains and I can't rely on it. And just left me with further questions like

#

If the the Daedra and Aedra (which are technically one in the same, Daedra are Aedra) are concepts like love, time, life and death cycle, beauty.. and the Daedra did not participate in the creation of Mundus.. How is it exactly the concepts of the Daedra got into our creation? Like murder, deceit, Sheogorath (madness) already being inside each of us.. Like I can see how we got the Aedra concepts, but the Daedra had nothing to do with the creation.

noble verge
#

That's part of why I don't think the Daedric Princes are concepts, but are rather very powerful beings that have become associated with concepts. Perhaps they might have been the first spirits to come up with these concepts in this kalpa, but I believe the concepts themselves are ultimately bigger than the Daedra Princes associated with them.

nimble pond
#

Yes and I read some people say their concepts were able to get thru by influence, just not their physical forms thru the barrier. However, Jyggalag pretty much x's that theory out. Not to mention if it were true, it just completely invalidates the whole idea of the sacrifice of the Aedra who participated in the creation in the first place and having their concepts absorbed into it.

noble verge
#

Either way, we do know that the Daedra Princes did teach their spheres and concepts to mortals. Mephala, for example, taught the Chimer to assassinate their enemies.

nimble pond
#

But how is it that Sheogorath is said to already be in each of us.. we have already lost. That is implying we are born with it as if Sheo participated in the creation. Not taught or influenced.

noble verge
#

I believe the concept of madness is bigger than Sheogorath, and not necessarily dependent on his machinations to exist in mortal hearts and minds.

nimble pond
#

Like I was saying, I've seen them being implied as gods and embodiments, but also stuff that contradicts it so 🤷‍♂️

spice whale
#

Auriel the pointy eared aedra is believed to murder Lorkhan father of Men just fine (although inefficiently)

noble verge
#

A great deal of our lore on gods and Daedra come from the perspective of mortals living on Nirn. In at least two lore interviews I know where denizens of Oblivion are interviewed, they scoff at the level of ignorance that we have regarding Oblivion and Daedra.

nimble pond
#

When you think about, it all stems down from Anu and Padomay anyway. I think in thought, the Aedra/Daedra are supposed to be embodiments of the concepts that make up and created Mundus. The writing just got tangled up in itself and why some parts contradict it otherwise.

weak sapphire
#

The divide between Daedra, Aedra and Magne-Ge is both more complex, and less complex, than the typical Cult of the Divines likes to make out.

#

The only criteria that really holds up is place of residence. Daedra dwell in Oblivion, Aedra in Mundus, and Magne-Ge in Aetherius.

#

At the end of the day though, i think the poor showing of what thw Daedra are has mkre to do with Bethesda's lackluster writing in game, than anything else.

eternal tapir
#

Is it me or has third-person always felt like an afterthought in TES?

spice whale
#

great Todd Howard used to say 'designed as first person but can be played in third, too' presenting Skyrim

eternal tapir
#

Much better than the opposite to be honest

magic tundra
#

I like games played in first person, I like games played in third person
However, at least with the main games (ESO comes to mind as a notable exception), Elder Scrolls plays better in first person than in third

eager remnant
# eternal tapir Is it me or has third-person always felt like an afterthought in TES?

It certainly felt that way in Morrowind and Oblivion. Third person in Morrowind lacked ranged crosshairs. Oblivion was even worse. In addition to the lack of crosshairs, Oblivion forced us into first-person during every dialogue with an NPC and we also needed first-person in order to find out if an item was owned.

To me, third-person in Skyrim and Fallout 4 feels a little better integrated into the games., but still a bit clunky.

nimble pond
#

My thing with third person on console is I wish they had camera shortcuts, like sometimes I need a short range third person view to see more objects closer as opposed to first person, sometimes long range to get a fuller picture. I'm always constantly having to stop to adjust the camera and I'd rather just have it with quick clicks short, medium, and long range. But not having to go thru all 3 every time I enter into third person camera.

vernal widget
grizzled lagoon
#

To me, the inconsistencies (intended or otherwise) in the lore kind of make it feel more realistic and grounded. As if it were passed down from generation to generation and things got lost in translation over time. Like how the different races have some similar gods but with different names and slightly differing tales of their exploits.

weak sapphire
#

Absolutely

#

Word of God should be used very sparingly. In-universe attempts to explain things in varrying degrees of academic honesty are vastly superior from a worldbuilding standpoint

grizzled lagoon
#

Agreed

#

And create more pathways for quest building too

dim reef
#

i kind of want either minigames or quick cinematics for making potions/cooking/smithing/etc. i personally would prefer minigames (as the better you do the better the quality of whatever it is you're making) but cinematics would also be fine.

prime marlin
#

the issue is this slows everything down massively

dim reef
#

What's wrong with that? I don't really see people say the minigames in fallout slows everything down "massively".

prime marlin
#

… because tnose arent used for crafting

#

those are seperate entirely and 100% a side activity

#

so you go to craft 10 potions with a minigame the time to do so might increase massively

#

the minigames in fallout 4 … arent related to any form of crafting and are just collectibles

nimble pond
wide garnet
weary quiver
#

I feel the need to be shallow and pedantic and point out hacking is required in fo76 and fo4, like maybe once or twice

prime marlin
#

yeah i get the minigames for lockpicking and hacking

#

but thata not crafting

#

you dont lockpick 20 locks in arow

cinder idol
prime marlin
#

why are you purposely ignoring my point

weak sapphire
#

I definitely think there is some potential for that. But i think it should be limited to creating new potions, not just producing from a recipe

weak sapphire
#

Let me elaborate...

When you make potions, you have 2 tabs. Brew, and Mix.

Brew gives you a list of recipes, and you make things based on the required ingredients. If you have a recipe for Minor Health Potion, which requires 3 Bread, 1 Fresh Water, and 2 Trout, then that's what you use. Its quick, simple and doesn't bkg anything down.

#

Mix, on the other hand, is more like old Alchemy, and then some. It allows you to experement with different ingredients, different solvents, different catalysts, and different equipment, to create NEW recipies. And this its self can be mkre minigame focused, because it is inherently elective.

#

Don't want to bog down making your own recipies? Fine, buy normal ones and just brew as needed.

eager remnant
# weak sapphire Let me elaborate... When you make potions, you have 2 tabs. Brew, and Mix. B...

This sounds a bit like the system in Kingdoms of Amalur. In that game we have two tabs: Create and Experiment. We can try out any combination of ingredients in our inventory while in the Experiment tab and discover new potion recipes. We can then create the potions by switching over to the Create tab. We can also buy recipes from Alchemy merchants if we don't feel like experimenting. Some quests grant recipes as well.

weak sapphire
#

I won't lie, that's partially where i stole the idea from. Though i think it could use some refinement.

magic tundra
#

A system like this would also make sense for crafting new spells

cinder idol
#

I wish my characters could learn how to spell instead of getting them off others. I'd love some interesting spells again that aren't "fire" or "fire but hotter" or "slowing snowglobe of death".

weak sapphire
#

All 'Crafting' systems could benefit from this sort of 2 tier approach, i think

magic tundra
#

I don't think it would work well for smithing
you don't suddenly get the same ebony dagger as anyone else just by experimenting

weak sapphire
#

No, but you can experement with parts to create variations on the same 'Thing'. You could ad winged quillons to an Ebony Sword, or a jagged head to an Iron Axe.

magic tundra
#

that sounds like an excessive need of a lot of models

weak sapphire
#

Fallout 4 and 76 already donit

#

It's just an adaptation of a system already in use

magic tundra
#

okay, can't talk about that

weak sapphire
#

Fallout 4s weapon system already constructs weapon models around a frame from various parts. They use this to facilitate the weapon mods system

prime marlin
#

lets take a look at swords
you have 5 hilts and 5 blades
if we were to go with a system where youd need to make a model for every combination youd need 5x5 combos for models
but with fallout 4s system you would only need the 5 blades and 5 hilts instead of 25 models total for all combos

weak sapphire
#

Nah, you can assemble individual models on a frame to create a single unit

#

it's the same basic system games have been using to display equipment on characters for 2 decades

prime marlin
#

skyrim doesnt do thwt for anything

weak sapphire
#

It's been awhile since i played with the models in Skyrim, but i'm reasonably sue it does the same thing with armour

#

It attaches the model to the skeleton directly.

prime marlin
#

not even remotely in the same way skyrim uses that for the fur armors because of the variations of em but its not dynamic and its all hand done with armor addons

#

like how all armor is in skyrim the visuals are in the armor addons

weak sapphire
#

But the basic rendering process remains the same. it takes the armour models and applies them to the characer skeleton on the back end.

prime marlin
#

they have two seperate armor models for light elven and elven deapite light elven just being elven without pauldrons

#

no no it doesnt the armor contains the skeleton

#

and the weighting for the skeleton

weak sapphire
#

Again, it's been awhile

prime marlin
#

its not done in the back end its done on the model itself

weak sapphire
#

But that just means Betheda's using a massively outdated approach

#

At least, in Skyrim,a decade old game.

#

Still, what Skyrim does is irrelevant, because Fallout 4 and 76 already utilize what's needed

prime marlin
#

they still use the same similar systems to skyrim its just able to be more dynamic

#

the weighting and skeleton data is similar

#

not the same but models still contain the bones they need

#

and the weighting data

#

which afaik IS how most games work

weak sapphire
#

Maybe i've been out of the loop on the technical side for too long. Still, point being, Fallout 4 literally shows everything that's needed to make such a system work

magic tundra
#

slaps elven hilt onto stalhrim blade
Fear the yellow-blue sword!

weak sapphire
#

You can fit so many deeps into this baby

cinder idol
wide garnet
#

I hope I’m not interrupting, but I’ve got a question for “lore” experts.

——

In my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction, The Dragonborn, Inquisitor, and their companions encounter Imshael, a desire demon/“choice spirit”. Just as Imshael begins talking to them, Molag Bal manifests through his mace.

“Weak. Imshael is weak. You are Strong, Dragonborn. Too much he reminds me of my rival, Boethiah. Prove yourself worthy of your Dovah blood. Crush him!”

At this, Imshael panics and attacks, with him ultimately being killed. This has an effect on the Mace of Molag Bal, making it stronger.

“The Mace of Molag Bal. Restored to its glory of the Second Age. I hereby give its power to the Inquisition. When the weak and pitiful Corypheus lies broken and bloody beneath your feet, know that the Lord of Domination will be watching.”

——

My question is: What enchantment did/would the Mace of Molag Bal have during the Second Age (I.e. the time of ESO)?

eternal tapir
#

The overhyping of the thalmor will really hurt ES6's reputation when all those fanfiction fantasies don't come true.

#

I'm already hearing the same Fallout complaints about "violating the lore" or "retcons" coming over the horizon

orchid thicket
#

I think they'll use the Thalmor in a capacity, but in what capacity is anyone's guess

magic tundra
#

The Thalmor are being overhyped?

orchid thicket
#

The Thalmor aren't operating in Hammerfell although it's probably on their list

#

I think anyway

#

We know spies sell out cities, like Saadia. Forget her real name though.

wide garnet
orchid thicket
#

One of my mod projects uses Thalmor, in a small capacity. Not the front, I probably could of made a new faction but Thalmor works fine for what I want.

#

They are bad guys you don't feel for

eternal tapir
wide garnet
magic tundra
#

Who is Stan?

wide garnet
magic tundra
#

I thought it was a name...

wide garnet
magic tundra
#

BuT ThAlMoR BaD

wide garnet
# magic tundra BuT ThAlMoR BaD

Not the one I chose to help you out with investigating the supposedly returned Sixth House. He’s older, wiser, and thereby less popular with the younger agents.

eternal tapir
wide garnet
frozen wedge
#

Who’s the most powerful person in Skyrim? Magic wise

cinder idol
frozen wedge
#

Miraak is the most powerful right?

orchid thicket
#

Mirrak invented a 4 worded shout

#

Idk how, but then again I don't follow that lore much

#

It serves a gameplay system in his fight more than anything

cinder idol
# orchid thicket Mirrak invented a 4 worded shout

I hate how absolutely stupid the Last Dragonborn is by not even being able to make up their own spells/shouts and has to learn them from others.
Blades Blade figures them out from combat experience, the Hero of the ruins of Kvatch can use spells they already know, mess with their properties and even combine them, thereby making a new spell.
The Nerevarine, while I'm unsure if they could create spells their retinue of spells was so vast and varied, them being capable of making their own would likely make it even more breakable balance-wise.
Last Dragonborn a dummy who can't even fly, how is he a dragon (jk)?

nimble pond
#

He did seem more nord warrior type, like conan the barbarian or something.

#

Now that you mention it though, would been cool if they had actual dragon magic spells for mages (no im not counting shouts, seems more warrior-ish to me).

#

Least we got dragon arrows though. But felt they should have been made from the teeth or claws instead of bone for tips.

weak sapphire
quartz nimbus
#

good morning or else

frail zealot
#

Hey guys.🙂 As Skyrim is my favourite game. I thought I'd jump into ESO now that it is on sale.
But then noticed a cruel pricing policy.😕
Each time a new Expansion comes out, you have to buy it with a hefty price (for an expansion that is)
If you skip the latest one for now and the next one gets released, you'll have to buy all of the expansions in an expensive All-in-one pack and pay for everything including for the base game or expansions you already own again.
Is that correct or am I missing something?

wise vessel
frail zealot
# wise vessel You can also purchase chapters individually in the Crown Store.

Thanks but I just checked the prices. It's more expensive than Steam even off sale since there is no discount on Crowns currency packs.
Rather keep crowns for smaller DLCs.
Right now it seems the only reasonable approach to buy a complete pack. Wait for 1-2 years, not buying any new expansions and then buy the game complete pack again.
Registering expansion bundles as separate games is just an unfair monetisation policy.

I'll soon post a video about this!

wise vessel
#

Please make sure you refrain from bashing. Thank you.

nimble pond
#

Is there a pumpkin smashing quest in ESO?

magic tundra
#

I don't think the "complete pack"s include DLCs, but then again, I haven't looked at ESO's buying options in a long time...
The base game plus whatever current purchases include offer plenty of content to keep you busy for a while, and if you want to continue your journey, you can buy the DLCs piece by piece, or get an ESO+ subscription for access to all - and in times you don't play, you can let your subscription lapse, with no additional payment, and no repercussions since you aren't playing xD

spice whale
#

don't forget to mention in that video ZOS needs to pay its 400+ employees somehow, ESO being the only game the studio made

weak sapphire
#

Or, you can get the subscription, and get access to them that way. And then buy the ones you like with the crowns that gives you.

#

Or, you know... pay for the literally hundreds of hours of content that people put work into

#

Its what, $150 for the dlc? I literally paid that for a single game in the 90s.

#

Gamers today are spoiled by how low prives are

umbral steppe
#

Without trying to step on any mod toes here, would folks here who play ESO like a channel dedicated to ESO, like Fallout 76?

weak sapphire
#

I think the problem is, ESO is not a BGS game

umbral steppe
#

The heck? That's so weird. What's stranger is that they aren't allowing chat on their server.

quartz nimbus
#

i think the bigger reason is because there's actually already a very robust ESO server

umbral steppe
#

Do the devs look at it?

quartz nimbus
#

uncertain. there is not a dedicated ZOS role afaik

#

lemme peep tho

#

yeah so there's not a specific role but that doesn't mean the devs don't peep. idk if they chat in there tho

#

but eso forums do still exist so they probably don't have a need to yet

umbral steppe
#

That's what I wanted to know

#

I didn't really see a way for people to get in touch with the devs or even have a community that the devs can see

quartz nimbus
#

the eso twitter is also fairly active but i wouldn't put all your effort into that

magic tundra
#

I don't think the ESO devs are very active here
They belong to ZOS, not BGS

quartz nimbus
#

they're not active here, i was referring to the ESO server

sour flax
fringe path
#

How's everyone feel about the QuakeCon lineup?

#

I saw lots of folks in Bethesda's Instagram comments malding over the lack of Starfield and TESVI slots haha

dim reef
#

I don’t really know what quakecon is :P

eager remnant
nimble pond
#

I don't think we'll see much of TESVI for a while, not to take attention away from promoting Starfield right around the bend. I mean we have not gotten anything official about TESVI since 2018 (and even that was just to say hey, yes we're doing another chapter in the TES main timeline). Everything else about it has been speculation and unconfirmed. Only other thing we got since then was Todd simply stating TESVI is still in the design stage, which isn't the greatest news. 10 years since Skyrim and that's about all we got on official information for TESVI.

#

Whenever Fable releases, then I would start keeping an eye out for TESVI..

weak sapphire
#

What we've gotten about TES6 so far is just Bethesda telling people to eff off. it's going to happen, but they're doing other things so stop asking about it

#

That's basically what that teaser was

nimble pond
#

Starfield will prob ramp up more showcasing in 2022. This year Halo Inifinite is main spotlight.

nimble pond
#

Rather than Quakecon, you might have a better chance of seeing something Starfield related at Gamescom, which if it did, then probably something small like a small picture tease to continue the on-going fan speculation. But I don't think it would be anything as big this year as the trailer from E3.

#

Which if they did show anything TESVI related at Gamescom this year, it could potentially backfire as people might take it as a sign that it will be exclusive to Xbox/PC.

#

But seeing the move to make an AAA title exclusive as well as buying Bethesda itself.. it begs the question. What's stopping them from doing the same thing to TESVI and even the next Fallout? TESVI could be on Nintendo as well, but Sony axxed out.

eager remnant
nimble pond
#

I'm only including TESVI as possible on Nintendo (if not later in time and not on initial release) because it seems more like something that could end up on Nintendo with the games they usually put out and Xbox and Nintendo generally having a better relationship than with Sony (of course this is only from a more current point of view as there are plenty of years ahead where things can change). Skyrim was on Nintendo I believe as well as Blades. But Starfield just does not seem like the kind of game that would ever be desired on the Nintendo platform, nor Fallout, given what Nintendo notoriously puts out.

trim horizon
#

I have so many character ideas.

prime marlin
#

nintendo has never made a scifi game series where you play as an orphan whos parents were brutally murdered by a space dragon aswell as her adoptive bird parents and nearly everyone she ever cared about

#

dunno whod ever put a scifi game on a nintendo platform

magic tundra
#

Do i detect a hint of sarcasm?

weary quiver
#

As I like to tell my bosses, customers and associates, it'll get done when it gets done

quartz nimbus
prime marlin
#

or hard to play racers with hover cars

magic tundra
#

...F-Zero?

cinder idol
prime marlin
#

i am being sarcastic btw

fickle snow
#

Bethesda, if you are here, I have a suggestion for ESO. The next expansion could bring you to Blackreach and add a bunch of Dwemer themed things, including a Dwemer Artificer class, and the main questline could include a dragon that lives down there and is gathering an army of Falmer and other abominations of the Deep and planning to breach they surface world. It would have multiple hidden entrances inside different Dwemer ruins dotted around Eastern Skyrim and Morrowind. Please, consider this idea and consult your team of game developers to see if this would fit into the game.

eager remnant
fickle snow
#

I thought this was like Bethesda's way to tell other people about progress with recent games. I will go to the ESO server when I find it.

#

I also thought ESO was directed by Bethesda and developed by Zenimax. Again, thanks for the clarification.

orchid thicket
#

Only specific things need to be run with BGS. ZoS do their own thing most of the time, with what they are allowed to

#

I won't get my full Dwemer DLC but at least I got the Clockwork City, so I'm happy as it's close enough

#

I won't say no to some fictional science lol

fickle snow
#

That is a good point

orchid thicket
#

I started playing Skyrim in the Summer of 13, by 2014 I was fixated on Dwemer and honestly I didn't stop. The Clockwork City lore fascinated me, maybe, just as much. Won't beat my bearded Elves that use Music to control the minds of mortals and alter reality.

nimble pond
# prime marlin nintendo has never made a scifi game series where you play as an orphan whos par...

Of course Nintendo does Sci-fi games, you've misinterpreted the point entirely. But Nintendo is also picky. They only have a selection of Bethesda titles on their system. Generally most of what they put out is geared towards children, that is their domain and it works well for them, Xbox tried competing with them in the past in that area, but just not as good. The other side of it is usually geared to the kids/teens that are more the misfit type, because not every kid is going to be into Mario or How To Train Your Dragon spin-offs. They have some pretty bizarre titles in this area, such as Eternal Darkness and Hexen, even BMX XXX, (and even the selection of darker games like that has lightened up more recently, likely since Sony and Xbox/Pc are more available for titles like that and more geared towards adult). But as far as Starfield or Fallout, it just doesn't fit into what Nintendo has been doing since the 90s, so believe what you want Kit whether you like it or not.

orchid thicket
#

Nintendo use to have Rare as a Second Party, mad talent. But MS outbidded Nintendo for them. On the N64 Rare got out like 3 games in a year

nimble pond
#

Yes, Rare was pure gold back then with Nintendo, very creative and unique

eager remnant
prime marlin
#

nintendo publishes m rated games

orchid thicket
#

I'm 30 mins away from Rare so if I can get a job in game dev it'll be them, Hello Games, or starting my own team and going through processes

#

I can't afford to move to the Americas

prime marlin
#

and doom did well on switch