#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 49 of 1

weak sapphire
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Im on a phone and can't extensively type an exa.ple here, so I'll drop the topic for he time being

gray mesa
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I don't really think TES should try become the kind of cinematic, story driven type of game.
I really enjoy those games, but they're something completely different than TES.
The whole point of TES was always freedom and replayability and that should be reflected in also having variation in the storyline. Otherwise it just feels weirdly disconnected from the TES game design.

weak sapphire
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These things aren't mutially exclusive though

dim reef
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You can have all that without making "wE HaVE mULtiPlE EndInGS".

gray mesa
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I never said multiple endings

weak sapphire
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You can have choices thet are meaningful TO THE CHARACTERS without having alternate endings.

dim reef
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Like i said, make alternate ways to get to the same ending...again...oh wait...it's already there.

gray mesa
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Again

weak sapphire
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Im not against choices and branching, i just want it done smarter

gray mesa
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Witcher 2 doesn't have much variation when it comes to endings, but it actively encourages multiple playthroughs, since the second act of the game is COMPLETELY different depending on a first act choice.

weak sapphire
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You said that having branches that leas tk the same outcome was lame. Or bad., or something, can't remember the wording

dim reef
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Great...messying up writing and canonicity...what fun.

gray mesa
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I want to play the Witcher 2 story multiple times, since I can get two rather different experiences.

weak sapphire
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And i can give you two radically sifferent experiences with 1 ending

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Simply using competent weiting

gray mesa
spice whale
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i don't wanna play Witcher 2 at all, after the whole city burned because i couldn't decide what real Geralt would do ._ .

gray mesa
weak sapphire
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Sorry, i misunderstood then

dim reef
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I didn't say breaks canoncity. I said messies canonicty.

See, if your choices make the second act different...well then which one actually happened? But making it where there are just different paths there already, where it doesn't change because of some small action and instead you chose that path, then it's much like guilds canoncity in the elder scrolls.

gray mesa
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Again I can only repeat myself, TES actively encourage multiple playthroughs when it comes to gameplay, but discourages with it's writing. The main quest will be the exact same every time, so at least I never bother to play it again.

dim reef
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The main quest will be the exact same with how you're proposing it.

Again...just make it where there are alternative ways to get to the main goal. Adds replayability, still the same story.

gray mesa
spice whale
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um, Todd said it clear - their audience plays the same char for years, so this is how they design their games

dim reef
gray mesa
dim reef
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You've yet to say you agree with my proposal though if it's the same as you're proposal.

spice whale
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check out Fallout 4 again - radiant AI everywhere. Game doesn't want you to re-play, it wants you continue playing

gray mesa
spice whale
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could use the talking to my hand emote. Oh well

dim reef
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If none of it matters...why replay a different path?

gray mesa
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Because you get a different experience???

weak sapphire
dim reef
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But it doesn't matter long term. So why replay?

weak sapphire
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Like, you can offer the oerspective kf the Empire, Stormcloaks, Balgruf and the Thalmor

dim reef
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Again, just make alternate paths to the same main goal. Best solution, doesn't messy up canon or writing, actually matters.

gray mesa
dim reef
spice whale
gray mesa
# dim reef But it doesn't matter long term. So why replay?

Idk what you play games for.
I play games to have fun.
Having alternative experience for the main quest makes a second playthrough more fun.
Technically nothing matters in the end, since it's just a fictional story...
I don't really see the issue.

spice whale
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while i'm searching for the right quote gonna throw some less related ones
"Who do you side with? Who lives? Who dies? What are you going to sacrifice to live, given the nature of the world you're in?" says Howard of typical Fallout choices. "Elder Scrolls is a bit more systemic in its design. Intentionally, you can join all of the factions. There's not a specific choice." https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-11-02-saved-by-morrowind-striving-for-starfield-todd-howard-and-the-story-of-bethesda

gray mesa
dim reef
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If what you did changed the second act, and the sequel just...ignores it, why play it?

But, the elder scrolls does something fantastic. It lets you decide what your character did from the past game while carrying over the main quest's impact. Did the last dragonborn help the companions? If not, someone else did.

I'm literally offering you what you want while still making what you do matter.

spice whale
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"They're investing in this world, their time has real meaning to them and it does to us as well," says Howard. "So how can it go on forever? It's a very different way of designing when you use the word 'forever.' You can just be like, 'This will last for three years' or seven or ten. Maybe someone can do that, but I cannot. You have to think in terms of 'forever.' https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-11-02-saved-by-morrowind-striving-for-starfield-todd-howard-and-the-story-of-bethesda same page, yeah

gray mesa
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The sequel doesn't ignore it. Just nothing happens there that would make a big impact on the sequels story.
You end up hunting down Letho and reuniting with Triss either way.
You just have a different environment and different character and quests the second act let's you experience.
It all comes together into the same with the third act again.
It is as you are describing an alternative path to the same goal pretty much.
You could still have the quests of both acts still be canon and be done by a different character. There is not that much contradiction between the acts apart from who Geralt went with.
Which with TES not having a pre defined main character works amazing.

#

Again, we are describing the same thing it seems to me.

dim reef
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If the second act changes based on your actions first act, then no...that's not what i'm suggesting. And it only messies up canon and writing.

Again, i'm literally just making your suggestion work within the elder scrolls.

gray mesa
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The action in the first act being what character you follow to the second act, but it's not like the other character dies then or something.

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It really doesn't impact canon in any way.

dim reef
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It still sounds like as it is, it wouldn't fit with the elder scrolls' formula.

gray mesa
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The only thing I want is having alternative experiences in the main story of a TES game on multiple playthroughs.
If that's done through alternative paths or branches with alternative endings does not really matter to me personally. I just want to be encouraged by the game to play the story again on my second playthrough.
The way you suggests it, if I understand it correctly, is great. It's enough for me and I never argued against it.
I just don't want it like Skyrim where the story is pretty much always the same experience apart from tiny things like if you finish the CW first of if you kill Paarthurnax in the end or not.
Which just doesn't get me to give the story another try, even though the game is made to be replayable.

gray mesa
dim reef
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Which i suggested from the get go. Even before you brought up the witcher 2.

gray mesa
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Like I said, probably a misunderstanding then, since I suggested the same thing.

spice whale
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remember DA Inquisition? Thedas literraly gets its apocalypse, everyone can see that, there's no denying. Fade rifts, demons everywhere. Where is the hero of Fifth Blight? Players did make hard choices back in 2009, slept with Morrigan and stuff, and then in the long run it didn't matter one blighted bit - The Hero could not be back \o/
What BGS does - send one Hero to Akavir, turn the other into Mad God, enslave the third x) isn't it right? You just don't expect them to save the day in your new game, new end of the world

dim reef
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It's only rumored the nerevarine went to akavir, unlike the hero of kvatch and last dragonborn's fates being decided in dlcs.

spice whale
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BGS doesn't give us choice and it works superbly, is what im saying

dim reef
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I mean...they do. They only say the fate of two heroes canonically. But everything they did is up to you.

weak sapphire
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I mean, the CoC mantling Sheogorath is neither clearly establish, nkr was it intended

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It was just the fans being mkre aware of the games lore than Bethesda's part time writers

dim reef
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I disagree on that.

weak sapphire
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Jyggalag even calls out the uncertuanty when you beat him. He says "Maybe you will grow into your station one day"

dim reef
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And yet as we see, after his defeat the hero of kvatch is the ruler of the shivering isles. Sheogorath in skyrim makes many references to events the hero of kvatch witnessed.

weak sapphire
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Could have witnessed

spice whale
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and i'm pretty sure these dlc were intented to seal the hero's fate x) i guess it's about personal perspective then

weak sapphire
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They're also events Sheogorath and the other Princes could have easily witnessed

dim reef
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Then it's up to you. But the last dragonborn ending up owned by hermeus mora is not.

reef hedge
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ive always held belief that protagonist of shivering isle always mantles sheo, and if that protagonist happens to be the same as HoK then its up to you

gray mesa
spice whale
gray mesa
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Could be. In my head the Divine Crusader always is someone else, for example

reef hedge
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nothing of shivering isle requires you to be HoK, so i see it as other side quests

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like how companions questline canonically happens in skyrim, but it doesnt have to be LDB who did it

dim reef
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Side quests are one thing. The shivering isles is a dlc though.

weak sapphire
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Anyway,not that i'm at a computer and can type reasonably.

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Let's look at what, in my mind, is bad branching vs good branching. Using the Civil War as an example

Bad; what we got. 2 questlines which have some of the same major events (Jagged Crown, Whiterun) but are basically stand alone and lead to two totally different outcomes.

Good; Two independent questlines which contribute to the same story. Overlapping is fine here too.

dim reef
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Idk. I think it's fine.

reef hedge
reef hedge
weak sapphire
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For instance, the Imperial questline starts with you getting recruited. You're sent on your little errand to clear out a new forward post, then inducted properly into the Legion. You do busy work for 2-3 quests, delivering orders, taking out a Stormcloak scouting party, etc. Then you hit the Jagged Crown. You and Rikke go to find the crown, find the Stormcloaks already there and have a fight. Galmar is captured, but the Stormcloaks escape with the Crown.

On hte Stormcloak side, you sign up, hunt a Wraith, and get accepted. You are sent on a few busy jobs, recruiting some men from a farm in Riften, helping secure the iron supply in Winterhold, etc. Then Galmar brings up the Jagged Crown. You go with Galmar to recover the crown, encountering bandits already holed up in the ruin. You take htem out and find the crown, but then you learn the Imperials are there. Galmar stays behind to cover your escape, and you get the crown back to Ulfric, but learn Galmar was captured.

reef hedge
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if you choose to be a werewolf or vampire, then thats stronger than hermeaus mora's grasp on you

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and probably if youre a nightingale too, though less priority than werewolf/vamp

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and possibly sovngarde alone has a stronger grasp on you than hermeaus mora

weak sapphire
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Nah, Second Walking Way. No one has claim on a Hero's soul.

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You go where you want

reef hedge
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explain

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why wouldnt they have a claim on your soul

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if you become a werewolf or vampire then youre straight up giving your soul to hircine or molag bal respectively

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if you become a nightingale thats a literal business arrangement where you sell your soul

weak sapphire
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The Walking Ways are means by which mortals escape the limitations placed on them by immortal masters

reef hedge
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the six walking ways are the way to godhood

weak sapphire
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From Sermon 23;

I give you an ancient road tempered by the second walking way. Your hands must be huge to wield any sword the size of an ancient road, and yet he who is of right stature may irritate the sun with only a stick

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Yes, but godhood can mean many things

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Anyway, i'm not sure about the rest of you, but THAT sounds like fulfilling a prophecy

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Following an ancient path, being of particular stature, and doing the impossible?

reef hedge
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so you think LDB should become a god? blobsweat

weak sapphire
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At least enough of one that they are not beholden to the whims of others

distant star
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I don’t, although they are already demi gods

reef hedge
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hermeaus mora definitely seems confident about your future service though

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and would totally know about the walking ways

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and your whole prophecy

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i dont really see how in fulfilling a prophecy that makes your soul (which you may have straight up already given to certain princes) immune to princes claims

weak sapphire
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Princes aren't necessarily ware of their own limitations

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Look at Bal in ESO, gloating even as your Kamehameha him in the face

reef hedge
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bal is not prince of knowledge

spice whale
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ummm no, if walking ways were so simple definitely more individuals would try that. So far we only know of very little number of such gods and godlings -Mannie, Tribunal, Talos. Plus Kvatch hero, unconfirmed

weak sapphire
reef hedge
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i mean you are destined to complete it

weak sapphire
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Which means very few people are going to do it

spice whale
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can you write your own prophecy? that snow elf vampire did, can't remember his name

reef hedge
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ye

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vyrthur

weak sapphire
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I suspect the only reason he got away with it was because he was already dead

spice whale
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anyways, that's only one way out of six. provided VIvec didn't make crap up at all

weak sapphire
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True

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This DOES require trusting Vivec. And he literally has 2 faces

dim reef
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i wonder how the elder scrolls 6 will start out. morrowind brought us in by boat and being made a citizen of morrowind, oblivion started us in prison set free by the emperor, and skyrim started us off as a prisoner due to (possible) border crossing.

i'm curious if they'll either make us a prisoner again, which makes me wonder how they plan to set us free, or if they'll diverge and go daggerfall where we are an agent or something similar to a person of power.

wanton violet
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we're prisoner to a cult ready to be sacrificed then we get saved when some group burst in the cult's cave and they kill em all and free us then we get up to speed about how that cult is everywhere and are harassing travelers on the road which we where one of?

dry tiger
weak sapphire
#

Hannibal! Good to see ya!

agile cipher
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Since a few days I have an issue with Eso 😔 I log into the game in Europa and after a few minutes they kick me out and said I need to have a valid internet connection but I'm using Lan and this happens only in eso not in the other games

weak sapphire
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Try reparing your instalation

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From the launcher, there should be an Games Options button, and Repair should be under there

agile cipher
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I am on the ps4 and I already installed it new

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But it doesn't help

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My ps4 is up to date as well

weak sapphire
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Hmm, not much help on a PS4 unfortunately

agile cipher
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It's annoying 😣

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Also in Skyrim I have a issue too. Sometimes there is the 0 Kb glitch it says I can't save until I delete 0 Kb

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At least I can fix that a bit by closing the application and start new but for eso, there seems no help

eternal tapir
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unpopular opinion:
More elder scrolls mod projects, and them in general, should rely more on pre-determined release dates to minimize scope creep

magic tundra
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unpopular indeed
you want another 11/11/11ed Civil War?

eternal tapir
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Do you want another Tamriel Rebuilt and Operation Black Mesa?

eager remnant
# eternal tapir unpopular opinion: More elder scrolls mod projects, and them in general, should ...

That's a nearly impossible rule to enforce. Nearly all mod projects are staffed by hobbyists who do this in their spare time. People drop out when real life calls. They may not be replaced until moths later when another hobbyist decides to volunteer their time. Deadlines are a workable idea for professional. They are not very applicable to amateur hobbyists who are working for free, working because they love the game and love modding, and are carving out an hour or two out of their busy real life schedules.

magic tundra
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that, too

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I know, being a Mod Project Dropout myself

eternal tapir
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brb

magic tundra
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you can't plan ahead without knowing what workforce you have available

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in a professional environment, you know how many people you have available, and how many hours per day they are working
in a hobby project like this, you know neither

prime marlin
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stop being entitled to free projects

magic tundra
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huh?

weak sapphire
prime marlin
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not you sarthes the other person

distant star
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I love entitling myself to enjoying them

prime marlin
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oh my god your here too

eternal tapir
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Inb4 the anti-paid for my hard work crowd comes in

dim reef
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Why not just...let modders do what they do, as they do, because they do it as a hobby for something they love and enjoy?

magic tundra
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even if "your" mod project does, you can't expect every mod project leader to procure funds for something they do in their free time

eternal tapir
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There's modders out there that want to be paid for their work. This is going off topic, but when Nexus did them some creators got more income than the entire top 25 contributors did via donations alone COMBINED

magic tundra
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most work for free, though

weak sapphire
eternal tapir
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And then why are streamers and content creators allowed to gain an income from videos that showcase or use those mods?

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I never understood this double standard during the fiasco

dim reef
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Modders who want to be paid can just go to bethesda for creation club add ons.

weak sapphire
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That is getting into some very complicated legal economics

distant star
eternal tapir
dim reef
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Also streamers or youtubers making money by making videos isn't a double standard.

eternal tapir
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I believe the team behind Enderal deserves income from their work

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And the guys making that GTA total conversion one whos name I forgot

magic tundra
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isn't SureAI an actual paid company?
or did I mix something up there

eternal tapir
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IDK, it's been some time since I've checked them

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Another critique of the modding scene I have is the general impression they leave on casuals - that modders do better jobs than game devs when they completely and utterly miss how scaling game features works

weak sapphire
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Lets be clear, i 100% support paid modding, and think it is entirely within the rights of a modder to request compensation for their work.

magic tundra
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it's not our fault for casuals having bent impressions

weak sapphire
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However, in the specific situation of Bethesda, doing so violates the terms of use for their software

eternal tapir
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99% of the time mods are not tested around other hardware specs

magic tundra
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because mod development and full-blown game developement are two pairs of shoes

dim reef
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^

eternal tapir
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I never claimed they should do so... it's the fact that a LOT of gamers don't know how scaling works with mods and then try to use it against the original game developers.

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Look at how Wasteland Workshop got negative reviews solely because "The modders did it better" and brainlessly repeating it ad infiniteum

prime marlin
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sureai sells novels and the soundtracks

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they also made 4? games total including enderal
2 conversions of morrowind
1 for oblivion
1 for skyrim

lyric flume
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Nord, High elves, Dunmer or Argonians

dim reef
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Has the X/S upgrade been released yet??

lyric flume
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Nords or high elves

regal ridge
magic tundra
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XS upgrade?

spice whale
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ESO gets visual updates on consoles. PCs had those for years..

dim reef
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As you do

weak sapphire
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Seriously though, consoles have their place too.

lyric flume
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Dark elves or Argonians

weak sapphire
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Hippity hoppity, offensive slavery joke

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Seriously though, the Dunmer are one of the best developed societies in fiction. As an anthropologist/archaelogist, i can't help but love them, even though i really, really don't approve of some of their social practices

lyric flume
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They enslaved Argonians?
In Morrowind?

dim reef
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Yea

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And khajiit and other races but mostly the beast folk

lyric flume
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Dang

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Wb in the 4E?

dim reef
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Uhh. No body really lives on where Morrowind (the game) took place cause a meteor fell on it and the volcano (red mountain) went “bang!”

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So not as many enslavements

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And argonians did big rebellion and killed a lot of dark elves

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I’m a bit drunk still

weak sapphire
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The Dunmer officially outlawed slavery in the last year of the 3rd Era, with no mention of them reinstating it

lyric flume
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How is the Empire’s relationship with Morrowind/Solethiem and Black Marsh?

dim reef
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Pretty bad

weak sapphire
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Blackmarsh seems to be openly hostile.

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Morrowind is... complicated. The Empire's stance is that it remains an Imperial Province, while Morrowind's stance is that they are independent. As of yet, no one has tried to force the issue, so it's not directly confrontational yet.

lyric flume
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Wb Hammerfell?

weak sapphire
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Unclear.

dim reef
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Its kinda assumed everyone is alright when they’re not

weak sapphire
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Hammerfell succeeded, or was released, from the Empire at the end of the Great War. It's unclear what their relations with the Empire remain after that, though it's generally assumed to not be great

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Hammerfell in general is pretty unknown. The Great War indicates the Dominion withdrew after the Second Treaty of Stro M'kai, but both Saadia and Kematu indicate the Dominion maintains significant influence in Hammerfell.

lyric flume
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Wb Elsweyr

weak sapphire
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Part of the Dominion, so probably openly hostile with teh Empire

dim reef
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after the whole moons disappearing thing and then returning, the khajiits have been loyal to the dominion cause the Dominion said they got the moons back

neat wigeon
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It might also be fear keeping them in check, since moons are tied to khajiiti births.

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Imagine what was born in the period of no moons.

weak sapphire
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Some day i hope we find out

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As of right now, its pure speculation

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More interestingly though... the moons ward off the 3rd moon. Is that system still intact?

wanton violet
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M'aiq the Liar probably know the answer 😉

spice whale
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got the right pupils for that, that M'aiq

dim reef
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so humanoid cats

oblique quiver
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When is the Bethesda E3 thingy?

weak sapphire
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1pm est june 13

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Apparently

dim reef
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Okay, i want to discuss fear spells and poisons.

I have three ideas, which i'll state from most favored to least favored:

  1. player loses control and runs away a certain distance for the duration
  2. player "loses" weapons for the duration
  3. player is shown they have a small amount of health left (which is not true) for the duration

I also have an idea for frenzy spells/poisons if anyone is interested.

magic tundra
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I think there's a function to make the player be controlled by AI

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for frenzy, I would suggest something similar to what the Infiltration quest in Oblivion does: transform any and all nearby NPCs into monsters

weak sapphire
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Losing control of your character can be quite frustrating, but i think is ok under some circumstances. Fear being one of them.

That said, i think you can add more into the dynamic by having different levels of fear which cause different sorts of reactions, from combat impairment (representing hesitation) to outright running away

dim reef
spice whale
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isn't it ..gamey? tried to imagine mighty Dragonborn facing Alduin at last, and all of a sudden shrieking and running away x) kinda comical, hardly TES mood. Suits Fallout though, and 76 already has this fear thingy

dim reef
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Alduin doesn't cast fear shouts.

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Also i don't find it gamey at all. What i do find gamey is you being immune to these poisons/spells.

spice whale
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hah, i like that fake health bar idea! far better than dying-reloading x) you don't die but the tension is still there? neat

dim reef
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I personally dislike the fake bar. Then you can just meta game and go "i'm not actually that close to death" and still fight.

spice whale
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Fear can be done differently - like say, screen is shaking, some heavy breathing effects when you look at something that spooks you? Technically player still has control

dim reef
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The player shouldn't have control. It's an illusion effect that overrides bravery/judgement.

spice whale
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does Nerd Rage in f4 has fake health? never thought of that, though i use this perk always

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Call of Cthulhu game had fear mechanic, i really liked it. Char could literally go crazy if player wasn't careful enough and kept looking at frightening things. Yes, open world BGS game wouldn't use that as effectively but shaking screen would fit all right, in my humble opinion. And yes, completely losing control can be frustrating-annoying. ESO overuses it

dim reef
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A shaking screen doesn't stop you from fighting.

spice whale
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i imagine it as heaver camera, too - it's quick when you turn back and reaaal hard to face the spooker. Anyways, we're talking about personal preferences here, right? x) not deciding anything

magic tundra
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When do you lose control in ESO?

weak sapphire
magic tundra
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yeah, a few are there, but not overwhelmingly many

weak sapphire
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Yeah

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So far, not impressed with E3, gotta say

eager remnant
# weak sapphire Yeah

I made the mistake of watching Gearbox's presentation. It was a waste of time, as fr as I'm concerned.

weak sapphire
tawny flint
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I beat karstaag at lvl 29

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Also what do you do with the solstime dragon priest masks?

wanton violet
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being so long since i played, but i think collecting them all open a new mask or its for some sidequest (or achievement at minimum?)

prime marlin
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only the base game ones the solstheim ones are just to collect

spice whale
# magic tundra When do you lose control in ESO?

every tiniest and unsignificantest mob that got dual-wield weapon sends player in the skies >.< so annoying. Animals do that too - fabricants, cliff-racers, blighted fetchers. I'm okay with being 'snared', slowed down, crippled. Losing ground and flying is just unnoying. Fear effect yes, little mobs don't usually cast, it's a boss thing

weak sapphire
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Here's an idea about Fear... How about instead of any sort of forced movement, you use it to encourage the sort of movement you want? Like, instead of losing control and running away, you get proximity based debuffs. The closer you are to the source of fear, the weaker you are, encouraging the player to make that choice and run away. At least until the effect wears off.

dim reef
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No because stubborn players wouldn't care. Plus no offense to bethesda but they suck at debuffs.

weak sapphire
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Stubborn Players could be forced to care if you balance it right.

And yeah, they do. But i generally opperate under the asumption Bethesda is going to hire people who know what they're doing for a change. Otherwise, we'll really just end up talking about Skyrim II

twin sentinel
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nice daedric armor coming with Q4 DLC

spice whale
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it's called deadlands? oh crap, i was hoping for Bravil

magic tundra
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Q4 is deadlands, yes

full egret
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looking forward to seeing the Q 3 PVP update

spice whale
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was hoping for some Flaccus Terentius references <3 guy who wrote improved guide for Tharn

weak sapphire
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I mean, are we surprised? It's about Dagon, his realm is the Deadlands

spice whale
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they ought to spice it up with something. Dunno how can you sell a smoke and lava dlc

twin sentinel
weak sapphire
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Is it possible they learned from Bethesda's mistake, and made it more than just Generic Hell?

spice whale
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is that some city? curious

unreal spoke
#

laughing my butt off over all the Redfall rumors over the years

magic tundra
#

likewise 😄

stoic fiber
#

I laughed my ass off as well the moment I saw the name Redfall

safe wadi
#

this hurts man

magic tundra
#

no, it's hillarious

safe wadi
#

they announced everything to ever exist except a clip of Tes6

magic tundra
#

because TES 6 does not exist yet

safe wadi
#

still hyped for the new stuff and waiting for outer worlds to redeem itself

safe wadi
magic tundra
#

yes
because it already exists, and it's its 10th anniversary this year

safe wadi
#

I'm waiting for skyrim forehead sweat update

#

in its 30th anniversary you will have to do a quest to find a picture of the tes6 development crew

stoic fiber
#

TES 6 was the Dreamer and the Dream

safe wadi
#

I wouldnt mind a skyrim post civil war where you take the fight to the dominion

dim reef
#

I thought we at least had the title.

#

This is sad.

magic tundra
#

it's the birth of starfield

safe wadi
#

starfield seems very nice

weak sapphire
magic tundra
#

also, what did you expect
we knew that they were working on starfield before TES6, and we hadn't had anything from starfield

rich halo
#

If anything, now that the marketing campaign for Starfield has started, we can at least assume they're probably moving people on to making TES6

weak sapphire
#

Even with the Fallout 76 team, they're what. 300 prople?

#

CDPR had almost 3 TIMES that working on Cyberpunk. Ubisoft's general development size is 500-800 people

#

Expecting them to be showing Starfield and TES6 us kinda an unrealustic thing

spice whale
proven scaffold
spice whale
#

still hoping 'map the future' looking at hammerfell was a bit of a fooling too <.< would prefer Valenwood myself

tranquil nest
#

hammerfell would be so insane as a game world, a vast mountainous desert and an endless sea of islands

#

or maybe tes vi is all of tamriel?

#

like in starfield theyll have a whole galaxy to explore so why not have tes vi be a whole continent? like in skyrim they mapped a lot of tamriel out around the game world of skyrim

weak sapphire
tranquil nest
#

my bet is still on hammerfell tbh

tardy swallow
#

My bet is on the whole Iliac Bay.

#

Can't have an Imperial presence in Hammerfell thanks to Hammerfell not being part of the Empire anymore.

tranquil nest
#

it just seems right for a place thats mirror opposite of snowy skyrim to be where the next gen world is set

#

hammerfell would be an independent nation and maybe even a democracy

magic tundra
crude aspen
#

bloody redfall trick

tardy swallow
#

It wasn't a trick. Anyone who legit thought "Redfall" was the title for a TES game was a bloody moron.

tranquil nest
#

fallout 76 dwarfs the skyrim map iirc and is full of content with much more advanced envrionmental effects

crude aspen
#

let me live my hype how i want

magic tundra
#

since when is copyrighting a trick?

tardy swallow
#

I'll be honest though, I certainly wasn't expecting a vampire-hunting game when I first read the name "Redfall."

weak sapphire
#

Makes sense though

spice whale
#

a-ha!
The massive amount of “things” that are included in the game are stored in an internal Wiki at Bethesda, a library of all things “Starfield” to which many of the 450 employees who work on the project have access.
it's 450 then

weak sapphire
#

Still, half the size of CDPRs Cyberpunk team

frozen girder
#

where is the trailer of ES 6!!!!PensiveDistort PensiveDistort

cobalt oak
#

checks watch four to six years from now

cursive ivy
#

💀

clever falcon
#

Bro

#

There's a sketch of Highrock and Hammerfell on the console in the starfield trailer

dim reef
#

what?

dim reef
clever falcon
#

Yes

#

I can't send it though

#

Want me to DM it?

dim reef
#

sure.

spiral breach
#

yeee i noticed it myself

#

the sketch was oddly specific and was very, very much like western Tamriel

#

BGS likes to tease their games in other games. Like in FO3 when they kinda teased Oblivion, I think?

normal reef
#

I know it was unlikely to hear anything about TES6 this year but I'm still disappointed regardless. I hope this new space game is decent

spiral breach
#

i mean, at least Phil mentioned it, riiight? 😅

normal reef
#

I just wish they wouldn't have used a TES6 teaser trailer to make their presentation look good back in the day. I'd rather not know until it's on the horizon not wait for years 😩

dim reef
#

They teased it so we know they're working on it. They didn't need it to look good.

weak sapphire
eager remnant
spiral breach
#

Think you quoted the wrong comment there, but idk, i guess :P i only watched a few videos back and something about one game having an easter egg about the other :)

dim reef
#

So did anyone else notice the suble hint of Elder scrolls 6's locale?

#

this is actually in the Starfield Trailer

#

Two Provinces, my god.

#

I am ready to get high in High Rock and hammered in Hammerfell.

magic tundra
#

Ok, where's the hint?

vestal yarrow
#

did they say anything today about ES 6?

flint coral
flint coral
dim reef
dim reef
#

It might be a stretch, Yes. But it is thought provoking

normal reef
#

The fact that we won't know for a while is PAIN

twin sentinel
#

I'd love nothing more than a High Rock + Hammerfell game, but I really don't see that etching as a teaser.

reef hedge
#

this isnt anything more than a hint, if its anything at all

weak sapphire
#

Personally, i think trying to do 2 provinces would be what ultimately kills the franchise for me.

#

They've already shown they can't recreate the worldbuilding and depth of Morrowind, if they do 2 provinces at once we'll just get them watering down 2 cultures to superficial tripe instead of one.

#

Ruin two Races in one go, yaaaaay

dim reef
#

I don't think so.

weak sapphire
#

I've seen nothing from Bethesda in the last decade and a half that shows me they're remotely capable of doing 2 cultures at once.

#

Hell, i'm not sure they're capable of doing 1 at a time.

zinc vale
#

Speaking of then handling cultures, I hope they're able to significantly rework their Reguard descriptions if Hammerfall is going to be handled. Some Not OK stereotypes there. Like, buff to athletics and penalty to intelligence, natural fighters, ferocious personalities that aren't suited to rank-and-file discipline.... big oofs

magic tundra
#

remember that racial stats do not determine everyone's character, just the "norm"
also, think of intelligence less as mental capacity and more as magical aptitude, as that's what it represents in the games

twin sentinel
weak sapphire
twin sentinel
#

lol. well they are still portrayed like that in ESO

zinc vale
#

Also, I'm a huge fan and I'm not personally attacking anyone here or Bethesda, just find those descriptions to be very early 90s/late 80s tone-deaf to me

twin sentinel
#

which descriptions exactly?

#

that they have amazing martial skills?

zinc vale
#

Racial descriptions of the human subtypes especially redguards. Yes.

twin sentinel
#

don't know, seems far-fetched to me. I just hope they make Redguard culture more unique

fast scroll
#

So, did they forget to add an ESO chat?

weak sapphire
#

Racial descriptions, in general. As in-universe stereotypes, sure, i can get behind that, people in Tamriel kinda suck. But as literal descritpions of the capabilities of diverse ethnic groups? No thanks, that's outdated worldbuilding

#

And lazy identity building

twin sentinel
#

how are different cultures outdated worldbuilding

weak sapphire
twin sentinel
#

their bonuses and penalties largely are

#

except for argonian water breathing and khajiit night eye, pretty much all of them

weak sapphire
#

Races are ascribing biological characteristics to cultural groups, which limits both the range of individual expressions and at the same time the range of cultural nuance

zinc vale
weak sapphire
#

'Naturally Gifted Fighters' isn't a social trend, at least not how it's been handled. If that's what the Imperials think of the wider Redguard, that's one thing, but actually MAKING all Redguard better at combat is a major misstep

twin sentinel
#

well, equating Redguard with rl black people is just entirely misguided in the first place

magic tundra
weak sapphire
#

If they are, on average, better because their society heavily favours particular styles of warfare and emphasises training from a young age, that's one thing. But if you then take a Redguard out of htat environment and raise htem soemwhere else, you shouldn't have those traits anymore

twin sentinel
#

if your different races don't have different gameplay effects, you don't need to have any at all imo.

weak sapphire
magic tundra
#

a stronger physique is useful in martial combat, and you genes can help you develop one
of course, the best genes don't help you if you don't hone your skills, and any trained breton knight will outmatch an untrained redguard in combat

#

of course, the "racial descriptions" often mix actual racial traits with cultural ones, but usually, people of a race follow one specific culture

#

and there are always deviants

twin sentinel
#

TES races aren't just biological though, that is another false equivalency to reality. they are significantly mythological in nature.

weak sapphire
weak sapphire
twin sentinel
#

when gods can screw with your whole races physical makeup, you can absolutely have innate differences

#

how did racials make nords and imperials garbage?

weak sapphire
#

Compare them to the Dunmer in Morrowind. There is not a single group in Morrowind that actually represents their 'Racial Characteristics'. Because they are treated as an actual diverse population with numerous ethnic and cultural divisions, and a wide application of necessary skills and temperments

#

Nord and Imperial Culture are one dimensional and, frankly, pathetic, in Oblivion and Skyrim

magic tundra
twin sentinel
#

I'll give you Oblivion, but Skyrim had plenty of Nords that didn't fit their "naked and stupid" stereotype that existed before the game

magic tundra
#

their culture being one-dimensional isn't a thing of races, but of writign

twin sentinel
#

^

magic tundra
#

there's also people like Shalidor, who are completely diametrical to the racial stereotype

weak sapphire
twin sentinel
#

and the whole college of winterhold. and every hold has a court mage. nords might be distrustful of magic and clever crafts, but they practice and respect them

#

the main problem is that oblivion and skyrim don't have as many factions as morrowind, so the variety in people is not reflected in their institutions. but the variety is there.

weak sapphire
#

And this problem persists across Fantasy. Look at the ubiquitious Wood Elves. Tolkien would be aghast if he saw what they did to his creations. Where he created more than a dozen regional variations and culture groups of the overarching branch of the Noldor, subsequent fantasy has mostly lumped them all in together as one 'Race'.

#

Sci-Fi does the same thing all the time. We, as humans, have produced over 10,000 distinct cultures. But for some reason alien species only have 1, maybe 2?

twin sentinel
#

yes. because whatever story you tell, you can only ever show a part of that world.

weak sapphire
#

I'm not saying that Skyrim wasn't an improvement over Oblivion. Anything would be an improvement over that. But they still fundimentally lack cultural divisions. All the Holds function the same, have hte same outlooks and traditions. Markarth, a Valley kingdom build on the ruins of the Dwemer, differs from Whiterun or Winterhold only in the architecture it uses.

weak sapphire
twin sentinel
#

... no it doesn't. they have an entirely different economy and cultural background due to their history with reachmen.

#

I mean, yeah. they could have done much more. but it's not like there is no difference at all

weak sapphire
#

Which SHOULD drive significant differences, but we don't actually see any. Instead, they use the racial divides to create those sorts of divisions.

#

Nords vs Dunmer in Windhelm, Nords vs Reachmen in Markarth, Nords vs Imperials in the Civil war.

#

Instead of, you know, Nords vs Nords.

#

The cultural lines are so laughably shallow, they need entire other races just to show any contrast.

twin sentinel
#

Rikke is a Nord fighting on the Imperial side. the Nord vs Nord conflict is kind of central to the whole plot

weak sapphire
#

Again, not Oblivion bad, because Oblivion had no soul, but compared to Morrowind it's almost an entirely different setting.

weak sapphire
twin sentinel
#

the empire is fighting the stormcloaks, not the nords.

magic tundra
#

looks at legate Rikke...

twin sentinel
#

you say it's not portrayed that way but I see it everywhere in that game.

weak sapphire
#

It's everywhere, the same way the paint on my wall is everywhere. Doesn't mean it's holding anything up.

#

it's a thin vaneer of worldbuilding, nothing more. And that's a shame, because they could have very easily done so much more with it. Hell, just change the uniforms so both sides are using variations on Nordic styles, instead of making it so visually Empire vs Nord.

#

A few Legion commanders sent to assist the local, loyal leadership in a civil war, rather than making the entire loyalist contingent an Imperial institution.

fast scroll
weak sapphire
magic tundra
#

(I can never remember which one is the publisher and which one is the developer, though)

weak sapphire
twin sentinel
#

game studios is the one that makes games

fast scroll
#

And they are all owned by the same company. So, yeah.

twin sentinel
#

should be easy to remember!

weak sapphire
#

It's a relationship similar to EA and Dice

magic tundra
weak sapphire
#

Or EA Sports and Dice?

twin sentinel
#

there's an official ESO discord, but there are no open channels there. just for server status and announcements, pretty disappointing tbh.

magic tundra
#

I don't know about Obsidian, but BGS belongs to Zenimax which belongs to Microsoft now.
Obsidian are different people, they just use Bethesda Softworks for game publishing (like BGS does)

#

ZOS also belongs to Zenimax (dunno if they're directly affiliated to any of the Bethesdas)
but they do use the IP of Bethesda in ESO (which is ES), which might be the reason for a Bethesda logo at the start

weak sapphire
#

Dice and Bioware are both owned by Electronic Arts. You wouldn't even consider them the same people.

magic tundra
#

sure

dim reef
#

It's there trust me

weak sapphire
#

So, calling Zenimax Online and Bethesda Game Studios the same people is just incorrect.

magic tundra
#

aren't Obsidian the FNV guys?

summer coral
#

Yes

dim reef
#

They intentionally made it hard to see for this reason

twin sentinel
weak sapphire
twin sentinel
#

even in 4k.

magic tundra
#

I don't like postapocalyptic wastelands, so FO was never something I considered

dim reef
weak sapphire
twin sentinel
#

yeah me too.

dim reef
#

and I say it does. To each their own however.

magic tundra
#

if it is what was already posted here, that's so stretched it could be anything

dim reef
#

As I said, to each their own

magic tundra
#

maybe I'll laugh as much at the TES6 reveal as I did at the Redfall reveal 😄

dim reef
#

If I had a 4k monitor I'd be able to point it out better, alas 1080p is the best I can do.

magic tundra
#

sharpness doesn't change it's shape
or presentation

weak sapphire
#

Yeah, honestly. Looks like a paint chip to me

fast scroll
#

So what your saying is, anything made by Bethesda softworks or studio is considered ok and zenimax is not even though all of them are owned by the same company? So basically, Bethesda treats ZOS like an unwanted step child.

magic tundra
#

what?
nobody said that

#

it's just that ESO doesn't have a channel here, because this is the server of BGS, and not ZOS

weak sapphire
#

Anyway, as i was saying eariler, relying on racial characteristics to develop a culture ultimately leads to having to use OTHER races to as contrast, rather than creating contrast within that culture it's self. Just look at any nation, kingdom or cultural group throughout history, and you'll see that there is a massive range of diversity within what most superficial classifications would consider 'One people'.

#

And this is where the work should be put. Make these people and their societies feel lie more than just tacked on gameplay tropes, make them feel real and engaging and interesting.

#

Because, as i said before in the Lore thread, you can make the fantastical feel relatable by thinking it through and grounding it. That's why Morrowind has remained so endearing even 20 years later.

weak sapphire
#

And this is a problem that would only be exaserbated by a 2-province game.

dim reef
#

@magic tundra @weak sapphire To each their own, as I've said multiple times. But if it is just a paint chip, it's a very very specific looking paint chip.

#

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not convinced by "oh it's just a paint chip" which happens to be of a similar shape to High Rock and Hammerfell

magic tundra
#

It's not really similar, though
You're just imagining things

dim reef
#

No, I don't think I am imagining things.

trim horizon
#

Yes. People are imagining things

dim reef
#

its more likely something to relate in starfield than it would to skyrim

#

even then that's a stretch

weak sapphire
#

Part of the problem with Bethesda's 'Hints' is they have a tendency to throw in so many different things, it could be a hint, could be a red herring, could literally be nothing

trim horizon
#

Is this how I unlock Reptile?

dim reef
#

@trim horizonSo me, IGN, Kotaku, MrMattyPLays, GamesRadar and a few thousand other people are just imagining things that I have at multiple times pointed out? Nah, sorry that's not how this works. @weak sapphire @dim reef I will entertain the possibility it is just a red herring. But I have no reason to outright dismiss it as some have just yet. ES 6's full reveal will either prove this whole thing was just red herring, or confirm it as a legitmate hint. We shall see. But until then, there is the possibility

#

yes?

#

you are imagining it

primal pike
#

see you in 13 years when that reveal happens

dim reef
#

I'll eat my words if I am wrong. But I really see no reason to dismiss it. Sorry.

#

theres a lot of things i think will happen but i doubt they actually will

primal pike
#

i'm starting to feel like es6 is going to be like half life 3, even when (if?) they release it, it won't live up to the decades of hype around it lol

dim reef
dim reef
#

Starfield has been in development for a while now and it takes priority over Starfield, it'll release, but it won't begin development until Starfield is out the door either.

primal pike
#

also, frankly, i hope starfield turns out to be good as they're going all in on it

dim reef
#

they seem passionate about it

primal pike
#

the amount of time it's been in development plus the 2 year out release date (which correct me if i'm wrong, is extremely uncommon for bethesda to do) makes me concerned about scope creep in a game like that

#

i'm thinking no man's skyrim if you know what i mean

dim reef
#

yeah thats a worry

primal pike
#

if anyone can pull it off it's them

dim reef
# dim reef you are imagining it

No. It's not how it works. But thanks for reminding me why I don't tend to talk to other people about Elder Scrolls games. They tend to insult my intelligence. Bye now.

#

sorry

dim reef
primal pike
#

people being salty because a game studio isn't working on the game they want is stupid

#

i just hope they don't go the rockstar route and turn it into an online service and start neglecting the single player content that made them

#

but if they succeed it's more money in the coffers to make their other games

dim reef
#

Bethesda is still making singleplayer games. I never got the concern of it when only one game made by them has been multiplayer and then they explicitly said "we're making two singleplayer games, we're still making sinleplayer games".

weak sapphire
# dim reef <@!211209046798106624>So me, IGN, Kotaku, MrMattyPLays, GamesRadar and a few tho...

Well, i mean... Kotaku, IGN, and GamesRadar are... ahem less than credible at the best of times. laughing stocks more often than not. Might as well believe Weekly World News.

I am not saying it's nothing. I am saying, to ME, it looks like nothing. As a general rule, i do not engage in speculation of this sort, because... Well, it hits a little too close to home, what with the whole Ancient Astronaught tumour that blights my academic leanings (Archaeology).

#

Could it be a hint? Sure. It doesn't look like one to me, but i've been wrong about things before.

dim reef
#

People need to do what i’ve done and loose any hope of it being a decent game when it comes out lol, that way when it either is terrible or great you aren’t disappointed.

weak sapphire
#

Unless it's a game made by Obsidian... Somehow, they continue to disappoint me. Like the Tarantino of Video Games...

dim reef
#

Bro I have a terrible take on Obsidian but I entirely agree with you lmao

#

I think they should scrap their own lame original ips and become the fallout developer 🥴

weak sapphire
#

Eeeeeh, i like Fallout, so i'd rather not.

#

Can we just give them a ditch full of human waste to play in?

#

Maybe some rusty needles?

kindred meteor
#

i hope ES6 has better weaponss

#

in skyrim the weapons are relatively samey

#

like the mace and the sword all feel the same

#

i want more weapon types and more differentiation

#

like primitive guns and stuff

spice whale
#

would love 'crushing skull' finishing moves with blunt weapons \o/

kindred meteor
#

or having an AK47 as a super secret weapon

spice whale
#

not sure about that one but bombs for example could be fun and lore friendly. ooh, and greek fire

verbal steppe
#

It would be an interesting game mechanic if fire behaved like fire in the next Elder Scrolls game.

hollow ocean
#

Physics engine needs to be changed in other Elder Scrools games

#

How do I join the dark brotherhood?

weak sapphire
#

You don't, because the Brotherhood is underwear-on-head stupid

weak sapphire
#

Though i should cut them some slack, at least they aren't Oblivion's Arena...

#

Anyway, to seriously answer the question, talk to Amelie Crowe in any Outlaw's Refuge.

dim reef
#

What's wrong with the brotherhood and arena?

cinder idol
weak sapphire
# dim reef What's wrong with the brotherhood and arena?

Well, the Arena is about as superficial a faction and questline as you can get, plus the Raiments look absurd. But on a conceptual level, the way the Arena functions just doens't make a whole lot of sense, and seems to only exist because people wanted an Area

dim reef
#

I don't...really think any of that is the case. I personally like the raiments. It also functions decently imo.

weak sapphire
#

The Dark Brotherhood is more complicated. It was an interesting concept in Daggerfall and Morrowind, but then Oblivion turned it into a tacky death cult that would make even Charles Manson roll his eyes

dim reef
#

I don't think it's tacky.

magic tundra
#

If you're talking about Oblivion, there used to be an arena in each city
You can see the Bruma one in the original trailer, and the remains of the one in Kvatch

dim reef
#

Yeah. The arena questline would have taken you to all of them.

#

In fact, iirc the one in the imperial city is actually chorrol's.

weak sapphire
#

The arena is a functional concept, its only it's execution in Oblivion that was the proble

spice whale
weak sapphire
#

The Brotherhood, on the other hand, no longer works as a concept. The structure of it's leadership is absurd, and can't work outside of a very small regional group, it's Religious ideology is just nonsense, and makes it so the entire foundation of the organization is built on a shaky reliance on a singlulr prophetic source. And it's 'Family' dynamic robs the organization of a sense of cold menace and instead makes the feel like a bunch of hillbilly cannibals.

#

Gone is the ruthless assassin's organization lacking any attachment beyond coin, who will stop at nothering to see a contract fulfilled.

#

Now it's a bunch of spoopy Manson Family rejects.

#

Even ESO, which does it's best to distance it's self from the actual cult side of the Brotherhood, can't escape it.

#

And don't even get e started on the Brotherhood questline. Lechance can find you anywhere after you've murdered someone, but he can't keep tabs on Brotherhood members? And the Night Mother knows who the traitor is but chooses not to tell her Listener, getting almost her entire organisation killed in the process? Oh, and hte Black Hand decides to let you live, because they for some inexplicable reason don't think you could be behind your own sodding actions?

magic tundra
weak sapphire
#

Yeah. If you're going to do an Arena, at least do it right. A series of generic fights in a single environment, that offers nothing you can't get by just stepping outside the city for 3 minutes, does not for a good questline make

#

Might as well not even be there at that point.

#

And treat the fights seriously for gods sake. Even with the Romans, less than 1 in 5 fights actually got someone killed

#

Like, add some gravitas to the last fight, instead of just making it another on a pile of bodies. Have the fights not be to the death, even emphasising the drama when an opponent earlier on dies from their injuries. Then, when you get to the Grey Prince, he refuses to give up, forcing you to kill him

#

I mean, hell. You wouldn't even have to change any of the actual fights, just some of the dialogue, to make the whole questline 1000 times superior

#

As it is, like most of Oblivion, it's like a 10 year old wrote it

#

It's best narrative is probably the Mages Guild, which i will still condemn left and right because of the laughing stock it made Manimarco into

quaint storm
#

Are there any Elder Scrolls fiction books

flint coral
#

There’s the books by Gregory Keyes. (The Infernal City, Lord of Souls)

#

Or do you mean in game cause there’s also fiction in world.

quaint storm
#

No I mean fiction in our world lol

spice whale
#

can even find those two^ as audiobooks on yt. I listened one while uh, grinding xp in ESO

quaint storm
#

Oh cool

dim reef
#

they're not good.

magic tundra
#

they're good, but not great

weak sapphire
#

Depends on what you want out of them.

#

Second one has waaaay too much cooking

spice whale
#

enchanted dwemer bird that allows direct communication with the Emperor or Prince, i can't remember which, seemed a bit overimaginative to me, during those grind-listen sessions

magic tundra
#

prince

restive apex
#

The drop rate in Shadowfen needs to be addressed. Someone said in zone chat they had been there for 8 hours and no lead

spice whale
#

could that mean yet another maintenance? boo

#

tanks these days! was just called 'noob' by a tank in a rando group, after - get that- our healer left, because tank wouldn't do their aggroing job, and after i died several times because, get that, tank wouldn't do their aggroing job x) where's my best friend Hallix

#

he's right though, i came half unarmed

weak sapphire
#

Back in my day, the Tank just took a beating and kept his mouth shut

magic tundra
#

is Shadowfen dropping less stuff than other zones?

zinc goblet
#

When are the endeavors going to be activated?

spice whale
#

they aren't? odd, there's endevours menu in activity finder

magic tundra
#

With the next crown crate season

weak sapphire
#

Alright, here's a point of contention... Settlement Systems in TES

#

I don't think we should have anything like Fallout 4's dynamic, but something with less free-form building, and more community interaction

cinder idol
weak sapphire
#

I was thinking something in between.

#

Not so much building individual walls, but placing specific structures

#

Maybe even adopt the different plot size dynamic from Warlords of Draenor's Garrisons to give more variety in the buildings

cinder idol
# weak sapphire I was thinking something in between.

I want to make a spaghetti junction that'd be hell to cross because of all the pedestrians and carts going about, or having the residents live on one side and everything they need to live like work, shops, a tavern on the other with like 16 lanes of horse drawn traffic.

weak sapphire
#

That may be a little extreme, but depending on the system i think it could be done

#

For instance, have you ever looked at SIM Settlements for Fallout 4?

cinder idol
cinder idol
weak sapphire
#

It's a pretty robust mod, which i think does everything i'd personally aim for in townbuilding.

#

You set down a plot, and an NPC fills it. The plot it's self randomly selects a style from a pool for that building type. The NPC then 'builds' that structure

#

And over time can even upgrade it into something nicer

cinder idol
#

I remember now, stuff like residential, shops, farming etc.

weak sapphire
#

Yeah.

cinder idol
#

It does make some things easier but I'd also like building a place from scratch and have that become a shop as an option too. Also interior baths, Blades' outdoor bath is weird.

weak sapphire
#

Yeah. I'm wondering if there's some way to integrate the CK more directly into a Settlement system, allowing you to use, say, a Drafting Table to design your own structures in-game...

cinder idol
#

Also if we're talking about guff we'd want for the next game, Co-op on a small scale, like you can bring a max of 11 other players with you into a dungeon or look at each other's settlements with you both also being able to see each other walking around the place.

weak sapphire
#

It may be interesting if there is limited co-op, like if your settlement is cell-locked

#

It's one of those awkward things where i'd like for there to be no cells or collision walls... but at the same time, you can fabricate the illusion of a much bigger world if there ARE

#

Like, if the game consisted of 5+ individual cells the size of Whiterun Hold, with the implication that there are hundreds of kilmoeters between them.

#

It also allows you to drop in new regions more easily, because you're not competing for worldspace directly.

#

The downside is, it means more loading screens.

weak sapphire
#

I wonder what the processing tradeoff would be... If you had several large, but smaller-than-say-Skyrim environments in isolated cells...

#

Though, i suppose you can offset most of the system resource usage with smart preloading... Still wouldn't address the adding-new-areas problem though

dim reef
#

The only "settlement building" i want in the elder scrolls is furnishing your home.

magic tundra
#

I don't care for either tbh

weak sapphire
#

I'm not talking anyhting like fallout 4, of course. Something more like Raven Rock in Bloodmoon. You're given a single settlement, and you work to rebuild it. Like i you were given Kvatch at some point in Oblivion. Nothing as free-form as picking a spot in the woods and making it your own.

#

Depending on how the system is strung together, you could also have the same dynamic fully integrated into Factions, simply on a smaller scale.

#

That way, running a Guild is the Lite-version of running an actual town, creating a sliding scale of complexity or players to engage in

#

For instance, you could be given control of an old Fighters Guild stronghold to fix up, leaving you to choose what to put in old outbuildings, how to decorate, and how to manage the guilds resources.

#

or, if you know, you don't want to lead a guild, front-load Radiant Quests for it and just treat it like a job, without ever actually having to engage in the guild's storyline

weak sapphire
#

Whatever the case though, Fallout 4 and 76 show that they are more than capable of letting us move furnature around.

zinc goblet
#

Endeavors are here!!!!

solar latch
#

Ana's new interior editor, Ana's spells, and static objects let you built settlements and move furniture in Skyrim @dim reef
@weak sapphire

cinder idol
#

It'd be great to mess with the personalities of your townsfolk... Somehow through like a hidden dwemer machine, I don't care how nightmarish it would be for the townsfolk. Also more interesting NPC towns. "Oh, we're a small logging village that gets harrassed by bandits and by bandits I mean a guy with a stick and another with a rock, both of which wearing loincloths and would die to a mild breeze". No. A town comprised of the same guy, who decided to plead to the mad god for an extended lifespan, so he had enough time to learn as many trades as he could and gain as many life experiences as possible. Sheogorath instead made several copies of him, all related to one trade or another and did nothing about their lifespans. Soon the copies and original made a settlement for themselves, mastered their crafts and formed their own relationships with one another. The fleshsculptor and hairdresser constantly bicker on which skill is superior, with the hairdresser proudly saying that if you give a guy enough hair they can become a Khajiit, unlike fleshsculpting which cannot make you another race. The town is guarded by all the copies with combat skills of course.

solar latch
#

Ana's Spells is on Bethesda.net. it can be used to customize npcs like turn them into bars amoung other things. The Ana's new interior editor let's you place objects anywhere in the game including exterior locations as well as place and create player homes. Static objects let's you move any furniture you own. Ana's spells let's you own all the houses so you can move all the furniture with static. Static also makes it where merchants sell furniture. Ana's also provided furniture as well as decorations and static objects.

tulip ledge
#

the elder scrolls, more like scroll these nuts on your face

#

😩 😩

swift hamlet
#

Playstation players should boycott Bethesda games. How does it make sense to financially support a company that will no longer develop games for the console we play on?

#

Canceled my fallout 76 and ESO subscriptions today.

Will focus on AC and BL3.

dim reef
#

That's cool. I don't care.

dim reef
#

Skyrim's been remastered only once.

magic tundra
swift hamlet
eager remnant
wind pond
weak sapphire
weak sapphire
#

In more constructive news. How do people feel about more controled combat options?

swift hamlet
# weak sapphire I do so love it when PS players praise their own exclusives, but then get irate ...

Not irate. I've made a decision about how I'm going to spend my money, am encouraging others to do the same.

Xbox has had its own exclusives for as long as Sony has, that's not the issue. This is fairly unique, in that All of Bethesda's revenue is now, to the extent it would be re invested, re invested in Xbox games exclusively.

If I, as a PS player have x amount of dollars to spend gaming a year, why would I spend any of it financing a studio that doesn't develop games for the console I play on?

weak sapphire
#

Why stop playing games you like, simply because other games aren't available on your platform?

#

Like, i'm not going to stop playing FF14 just because FF7 Remake is a Playstation exclusive.

swift hamlet
#

The problem is, that the revenue from those games is no longer going towards anything I will ever see again.

Unlike day, Assassin's Creed, which will almost certainly have a sequel on PS

dim reef
#

Boycotting a company that has no say on where its games get released on is literally doing jack sh*t.

weak sapphire
swift hamlet
#

Call it a.... Divestiture.

dim reef
#

English isn't my first, so you'd need to clarify.

swift hamlet
#

I don't think either of those games are on an upward trajectory in terms of development.

dim reef
#

Fallout 76 literally got 2 dlcs announced.

swift hamlet
#

Lol... Have you played any of their dlcs?

#

76 just dumped all pvp. It's gone.

dim reef
#

I want to. But i don't like online games.

swift hamlet
#

Eso added, essentially, authorized in game bots (companions) because so much of the content requires 5+ players, and it's nearly impossible to put that together in the game at this point.

weak sapphire
#

So, you're saying you don't enjoy the games anymore, which is a perfectly valid reason not to subscribe to them anymore

swift hamlet
#

I'm not angry... But I wouldn't expect xbox players to pay for the next TLOU

weak sapphire
dim reef
#

Why would i buy a game only on playstation? 76 and eso and many other bethesda games are still on ps3. They're not being stripped off the playstation.

swift hamlet
#

I still enjoy eso to some extent, it's obviously in its twilight. But knowing the next elder scrolls will be an exclusive to Xbox, doesn't inspire me to continue my subscription to it.

dim reef
#

Also, simply not buying a game you don't own a console for is not "boycotting". It's not being dumb and buying a game you can't play.

#

I'm not boycotting 343 because i don't have an xbox.

swift hamlet
#

You are missing my point.

#

Previously, subscribing to these games... You know that some of that money is going towards games you will play in the future.

Today we know that's no longer true. As a PS player, subscribing to these games now... That money is going towards games I will never see.

dim reef
#

That's still not Boycotting.

swift hamlet
#

I said that. I suggested referring to it as a divestiture.

dim reef
#

I don't know what that word means. Again english isn't my first language.

swift hamlet
#

Talking your money out of one investment, and moving it into another.

More or less.

#

Taking*

dim reef
#

Alright then.

swift hamlet
#

👍🏼

full egret
#

MYM next week on the 24th

edgy ridge
#

It seems like ES6 might take place in hammerfell and/or high rock but i hope that they eventually make a game in elsweyr or summerset

weak sapphire
#

If i were to plot the developing world story, i would say...

TES6 Hammerfell
TES7 Elsweyr
TES8 Valenwood
TES9 Summerset
TES10 Blackmarsh

magic tundra
#

cries in High Rock

weak sapphire
#

:P

#

Lets face it, Daggerfall was mostly Highrock. The Hammerfell areas were secondary

spiral breach
#

if ever lol

weak sapphire
dim reef
#

I don't want a game set in black marsh, personally.

magic tundra
#

why not?

dim reef
#

Afaik, human and mer races can't inhabit inner black marsh. It's only hospitable to argonians and things native to black marsh.

weak sapphire
#

Lizard propaganda

#

Or easily explained through a macguffin

magic tundra
#

you are the Lizardborn! you are immune to all diseases!

weak sapphire
#

The Hist have gone silent, and with them Blackmarh's natural defenses have weakend, allowing non Argonians access to the deeper swamps

dim reef
#

Yeah...no.

#

Just leave black marsh alone.

weak sapphire
#

But then we don't get to explore the Argonians or the Hist

dim reef
#

Or we can just have another elder scrolls adventures title in black marsh.

prime marlin
#

didnt the last one almost destroy the company?

dim reef
#

No.

prime marlin
#

was redguard adventures or legends

dim reef
#

Adventures.

prime marlin
#

ok then nevermind it was adventures thst almost did thst

weak sapphire
#

Redguard was a great, fun story

#

Absolutely terrible game

prime marlin
#

yes pretty much

#

well it wouldnt be bad if the controls were better

#

but it led to them almost going out of business then theyngot the funding to make morrowind and they kept existing

dim reef
#

Just make elder scrolls as we know it gameplay wise but in the adventure style so we don't have to make sh*t up just to explore black marsh.

prime marlin
#

the wlderscrolls as we know it wouldnt make sense in the legends format it wouldnt work to have a set character

spiral breach
prime marlin
#

theyd have to make it as its own thing

dim reef
weak sapphire
#

I mean, once upon a time they said the Amazon was impenetrable, because of the diseases and venomous creatures.

dim reef
#

If it wasn't accurate then why the heck could no one truly invade black marsh and instead only the edges of the province?

#

Just leave black marsh alone.

#

Or again, make a standalone title.

prime marlin
#

or better yet let people have fun with what they wanna make

dim reef
#

I never said they can't. I said i wouldn't like it.

weak sapphire
stoic fiber
#

The northern frozen coasts were supposed to be so cold that only Nord's could live there. Alas

dim reef
#

Yet none of those are the stated reason.

prime marlin
#

theyre goin to blackmarsh in eso

dim reef
#

Eso doesn't exist.

distant star
#

Bruh

prime marlin
#

thats… not up to you to decide

dim reef
#

I'm not being literal.

prime marlin
#

its canonity is also not up to you to decide

dim reef
#

...i wasn't being literal.

distant star
#

I mean, it is true, ESO’s stuff does not exist for it is fictional, however the fiction of eso does

dim reef
#

Guys, i am not being literal.

distant star
#

I’m just goin along with it 🤷‍♂️

prime marlin
#

eso does exist and even if i dont personally like playing it i wont say its not canon

distant star
#

Nah but I will, it’s not cannon

dim reef
#

...i didn't say it wasn't.

prime marlin
#

you could go to anywhere you wanted into black mash in arena whether you were argonian or not

dim reef
#

I expressed my disdain for eso. That was all i did.

dim reef
prime marlin
#

except we do because it was a game in the series and its events are canonical

distant star
#

We talk about gladiatorial battleground instead

prime marlin
#

infact it was cool to meet the emperor in oblivion from arena

dim reef
#

Okay...

I get that it's hard to interpret tones but i'm pretty sure it's obvious i'm not being serious.

prime marlin
#

its not obvious

dim reef
#

Okay. And yet i even clarified i'm not being serious/literal.

magic tundra
#

with the clarification, it is 😉

distant star
#

It’s quite literal to say you’re not literal tsk tsk tsk

weak sapphire
#

I have Oblivion. That is all.

stiff bramble
#

I, too, have Oblivion.

weak sapphire
#

I just... So much squandered potential...

stiff bramble
#

With Oblivion?

#

How so?

weak sapphire
#

In terms of most things. Like visual design.

#

The game is totally devoid of any sort of creativity, and is about as generic as you can be. Even Oblivion it's self is just 'Hell'

#

Part of Dagon's sphere is Natural Disaster, why not model the various 'Islands' after natural disasters, like tornadoes and Earthquakes and Floods. You woudn't even have had to create additional assets for it.

stiff bramble
#

Technically that's only Dagon's plane of Ovlivion, The Deadlands. The Shivering Isles are also in Oblivion.

weak sapphire
#

Yeah, and they are just so bland and predictable and totally devoid of any sort of creativity.

#

Like someone thought "Duur, Demons!" and that was the entire design process

stiff bramble
#

If you can seriously tell me the Shivering Isles is devoid of creativity I rewlly need to know what you consider to be creative.

weak sapphire
#

It was not devoid. But is was sorely lacking

#

An improvement over the base game, absolutely, but still not good

stiff bramble
#

What do you consider to be a creative game?

weak sapphire
#

Morrowind

#

It managed to draw from half a dozen different cultural influences, created evocative environments and creatures, but still grounded them and made them beleivable

#

Morrowind manages to feel Alien, and familiar at the same time. Oblivion, on the other hand, it just cliched. And Skyrim is just bland.

stiff bramble
#

The base game is fairly generic. I still think SI is super vibrant and creative. Especially the main quest.

weak sapphire
#

I've got my own problems with Shivering Isles too... But it was a vast improvement over the base game

#

But like... Look at the core concepts of Morrowind and Oblivion

#

Morrowind was, at it's core, "Chosen one fights an evil Demon in a volcano thatthreatens the world". But it's woven together in such a way that you'd never really recognize it. In fact, many people will outright argue that you aren't even a chosen one, or that Dagoth Ur isn't evil.

#

But Oblivion is just "Find the rightful Heir to the throne to stop an ancient evil" story. And it's paint by numbers.

#

It's antagonist is just terrible, it's climax is lackluster, it's art design is totally devoid of any individual identity. It's just... Generic in every sense of the word

#

I ahve invoked the Pseron with my criticisms

eager remnant
#

Oblivion is the most unambitious game Bethesda Game Studios have ever created, in my opinion. It's the one game where I felt they were just "coasting", not even trying. I played for two weeks when it was released and the game made me so mad I had to uninstall it. I have mellowed a bit towards the game over the years but it is still a game I can't play without a lot of gameplay overhaul mods.

weak sapphire
#

The sad part is, because it was so lacking in ambition or creativity, it was also super, SUPER safe.

#

Because, as it turns out, despite constantly screaming for new things, consumers have shown time and again they don't actually WANT new things.

celest vortex
#

I don't understand all the Oblivion hate. I've loved that game since the day I laid my hands on it. I think there's a lack of perspective here, especially when you consider just how much of a leap forward Oblivion was for 2006. It suffers from repetitive dungeons and bad faces, sure, but that's to be expected. I think the story, world, and atmosphere are very sound.

prime marlin
#

oblivion did alot right

#

saying bethesda played it safe ignores that it did a lot of weird stuff thst sounded kinda crazy at the time

distant star
prime marlin
#

not everywhere in the world of tes can feel alien and oblivion manages to have excellent quest design

#

something morrowind lacks honestly

#

morrowind has a great story but oblivion has the best quests

#

morrowind had npcs standong around forever
oblivion gives them daily schedules and tasks to live in the world

distant star
#

And apparently they could and would steal from each other, it was hilarious

#

Martin the bread lord was almost no exception

spice whale
#

oblivion was a graphical leap. i remember some old review where they said "we didn't believe such graphics were possible when we saw trailers". it was 'the' next gen game

prime marlin
#

and the thing i love best

#

your not the hero in oblivion

#

your a sidekick to the hero

#

the hero with… infinite bread in his pockets

distant star
#

Well, you’re a hero too, but not the main main one

prime marlin
#

look martin likes carbs can you blame him

distant star
#

Yes

prime marlin
#

they could not have had jungles in oblivion

#

cyrodil was never super alien

#

and the small team who made oblivion the games pretty darn impressive

#

small in comparison to lster games

stiff bramble
spice whale
#

Oblivion had havok stuff, as in world physics. i remember reading some guy's interview, he said how magical it was when he managed to make those levers be activated with fireballs and arrows, ha ha

prime marlin
#

seriously the fact anyone with a straight face can call oblivion unambitious is deluding themselves

celest vortex
#

IIRC the story with Radiant AI is that the NPCs got out of control and would be constantly getting themselves into trouble so Bethesda pared it back hard

prime marlin
#

sure its art direction wasnt as good as morrowinds but it was far from un ambitious

celest vortex
#

So unfortunately we'll never get to see the finished product of what they displayed in previews

prime marlin
#

have you ever followed miaq

#

he gets into trouble alot

#

because his daily schedule is run to a town and steal 50 calipers

spice whale
#

radiant AI was messy but somehow it isnt the golden standart of AI today. NPCs are furniture in todays rpgs . _.

celest vortex
prime marlin
#

the game would have run like… a slideshow set to a slow setting st the time if it was a jungle as previously described

stiff bramble
#

M'aiq wonders where all of the calipers have gone. Why did they all disappear?

prime marlin
#

yknow what i saw when messing with modding skyrim

#

apparatuses 5 sets of 9 apparatuses

spice whale
#

what's apparatuses

prime marlin
#

the mortar and pestal / alchemy equipment in oblivion

stiff bramble
#

Oh, is that stuff still in then code?

prime marlin
#

not the oblivion ones these are very different

#

novice to master

stiff bramble
#

Are these actual models?

prime marlin
#

3 sets of 3 with 5 levels each

#

3 models remain

#

hammer
tongs
bellows

calcinator
alembic
retort

censer
grimoir
talisman

stiff bramble
#

I was always annoyed with having to carry that stuff around, anyways.

spice whale
#

ptetty sure animated crafting stations came very very late in the game. this is probably when they decided to make alchemy work like blacksmithing and the likes?

stiff bramble
#

Are these fully realized meshes, with textures?

prime marlin
#

the hammer tongs and bellows misc items in skyrim still use the model name “aprentice_hammer/tongs/bellows”

#

but they arent the same items as the apparatuses

#

these are misc items with the old models from the apparatuses

stiff bramble
#

I miss the ability to cast magic with a weapon equipped.

prime marlin
#

on one hand it was nice on the other i love skyrims magic system

spice whale
#

thuum comes in handy with swords equipped

prime marlin
#

the old system could not allow for something like fire breath

stiff bramble
#

There's not any reason why you couldn't have the exact functionality of the Skyrim system, but with daggers in your hands or something.

#

Like, lore reasons that is.

prime marlin
#

how would you swing the dagger

stiff bramble
#

With your hands?

prime marlin
#

but you arent physcially controlling it with your hands your using s controller or keyboard/mouse

#

how would you dual weild weapons and still cast spells

#

when the powers button cannot cast constsnt spells

stiff bramble
#

Oh. Right. The buttons are the real issue. You'd have to either have two separate button sets for casting and swinging or a toggle.

prime marlin
#

yeah

#

and a toggle like morrowind can be frustrating

stiff bramble
#

It wouldn't be too hard to implement.

#

Design wise.

prime marlin
#

i wish they went ahead with the spell mixing for skyrims magic system

#

from the dev jam

#

i really hope they use skyrims system with spell mixing in the next game with creative combinations like a significantly better version of fable 3s spell weaving

stiff bramble
#

For example, have the shift key cast spells like in OB when you pressed the mouse button of your choice. Then, if you want to just have spells leave spells as equip-able, like vanilla.

prime marlin
#

controller users

stiff bramble
#

That's not an issue. It's the same as the normal system but with an extra button press.

prime marlin
#

the problem with the oblivion spell system is some spells would be impossible for it

stiff bramble
#

Now which button that would be I don't know. I don't have any clue what the controller controls are.

prime marlin
#

theyre almost all used

stiff bramble
#

It's not the OB system, per se. Just the ability to cast with an item in hand.

prime marlin
#

only ones that arent are on the dpad

#

but your… its not how it works

stiff bramble
#

For the two-handed spells that's what you'd have the equipable spells for.

#

What's not how it works?

prime marlin
#

flames the basic spell eveyr chsracter stsrts with would not work

stiff bramble
#

Why?

prime marlin
#

if you equip a spell like thst to the shout/power button the casting button from oblivion they literally do not work right they fire short bursts only from your face

#

casting it in any other way then from your hand doesnt let them work right

stiff bramble
#

I think I'm confused.

#

I'm not talking about Oblivion.

prime marlin
#

im talking about skyrim

stiff bramble
#

Yes.

prime marlin
#

the same button used in oblivion as the spell button is the power button in skyrim

stiff bramble
#

That's just an example. It can be literally any button.

prime marlin
#

how would you fire a concentration spell

#

are you going to just hold down this random button

stiff bramble
#

That depends, what's a concentration spell..

wanton violet
#

coming from d&d, i think it a spell that last until you stop concentrating on it.

#

aka, prime time to poke the mage to make him lose his spell he trying to keep up

stiff bramble
#

The only thing I know that from is DnD. That's why I'm confused.

#

What are concentration spells in the context of Skyrim?

prime marlin
#

flames

#

wall of fire

wanton violet
#

that more like a channeled spell?

prime marlin
#

theyre called concentrstion spells if i remmemebr right

stiff bramble
#

You'd just hold the button, as normal?

prime marlin
#

yeah except… where would it be firing from

stiff bramble
#

The... hand?

prime marlin
#

the default place to fire an attack from is the players face

#

and in this case your not equipping a spell to the hand so it has no way to fire from the hand

#

have you ever considered playing with a one handed weapon in one hand and a spell in the other

stiff bramble
#

You're getting hung up on systems.

#

I'm talking purely theoretical design.

#

Build the sytems around it.

#

But, in Skyrim, do the spells you have equiped in your hands really fire from your face?

prime marlin
#

only if they are fired without being equipped to the hands

#

if they are attached to your hands by being properly equipped they fire from your hands

#

if theyre fired through a script they fire from your face

stiff bramble
#

Right. So what is the problem?

prime marlin
#

the system in which your describing would make it overly complex on controls to swap between both when the easier and quite frankly better looking solution to the problem is to be able to cradle a spell in one hand and a sword in the other

#

skyrim does have spells on their own dedicsted button powers and shouts

#

making them a bit more unique then they were in oblivion because in oblivion they worked exactly like a normal spell but had a day cooldown

stiff bramble
#

Yes, but the entire point of my brainstorm is to find a way to have both casting and smashing done without having to switch weapons ans spells out.

prime marlin
#

now they have their own dedicated slot

#

use a one handed weapon

stiff bramble
#

And working largely within the confines of the existing system.

#

At the same time.

prime marlin
#

you can

stiff bramble
#

The entire point is there is not any switching.

prime marlin
#

holding a sword doesnt prevent you from using a spell in the other hand

stiff bramble
#

Duel weild both.

prime marlin
#

you can fire a spell and swing a sword

#

without switching

stiff bramble
#

I am aware of how to play as a battlemage, yes.

prime marlin
#

and you can do them at the same time

#

how are you casting the spells when your hands are full

stiff bramble
#

I know what I can do. I'm trying to figure out a way to do more.

prime marlin
#

powers and the voice makes sense because they are words

#

and they are on a seperate button

stiff bramble
#

Because in my theoretical design it works like in OB and you can cast with a full hand.

#

If it works in OB then there's no lore reason it can't in Skyrim.

prime marlin
#

which makes no real sense and meant that it didnt matter what weapon you used in oblivion

stiff bramble
#

The issue is design.

#

Hey, I think it's cool.

prime marlin
#

you could hold a giant battleaxe and still fire a spell

stiff bramble
#

Yes. That's cool.

prime marlin
#

or with a mod weild the entirety of the white gold tower as a mace

stiff bramble
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I... guess?

prime marlin
#

but it still doesnt mean it makes sense to be able to do so

#

oblivions system is still in skyrim

stiff bramble
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Those are shouts and powers. Not casting.

#

That fills largely the same function, but that's not the point.

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The point is that i'm trying to figure out a way to mash the two up.

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No, I don't care you can functionally do that already.

prime marlin
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its the same function

stiff bramble
#

Okay. I want to figure out a way to take the Oblivion system of casting while holding a weapon and put it into Skyrim with no loss of functionality either way. Yes, you can functionally replicate the OB system in Skyrim, but I don't care. It's a thought exercise.

spice whale
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THEY DID IT Oblivion <3 new emote thing

cinder idol
prime marlin
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oh no how dare they not model feet with high quality you spend so much time staring st them intently

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they are literally the only company to ever do such a thing

cinder idol
cinder idol
cinder idol
# prime marlin oh no how dare they not model feet with high quality you spend so much time star...

It just screams lazy, like "Eh, we could do it so that the 2+ pairs of sandals in the game (raider sets in Fallout, one from Dawnguard and 1 from DB questline for Skyrim) don't look like ass and we've shown we can do it in the past but we can just give that job to the modders, console players can get stuffed". I use it as a mark of quality, given most games don't try to do anything beyond the wood block with grooves painted on approach I associate with The Sims aside from monsters given how non-integral it is but it's one of those small details that show they care about the product.

dim reef
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Would better feet models be nice? Yes. Are the necessary? No. Will they likely look nice in the newer games? Most likely.

cinder idol
dim reef
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It's not really a downgrade. It's just...not focusing on a minor aspect that majority will not even notice.

cinder idol
dim reef
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They didn't take out radiant ai. It's just been more strict so you don't have an npc buy out a store or kill other npcs. They turned down radiant ai in oblivion too. None of these things make it "worse". It's called being practical.

cinder idol
dim reef
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Bruh. It's f*cking feet. Your example is so totally different. I legit have no issue with it. And i have a f%cking fetish for them.

cinder idol
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Alright then, picking up your hat after it's been knocked off in Rockstar games is more in line but it's still welcome over having to buy another hat every time or never getting it bafk until a cutscene.

dim reef
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Skyrim has more nice little details than rdr2 ever will. Your example is again different. Rdr2 feet models also look rather poor.

cinder idol
dim reef
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I just gave an example. Another game's foot models. You know...drawing comparisons.

cinder idol
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Alright then. Conan Exiles had better and have options for no loincloths, the game sucks but there you go. Oblivion had better character creation options too instead of "pick 1 of 9 noses".

#

What is this conversation?

weak sapphire
cinder idol
weak sapphire
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Can't really comment on it early on, but i started playing it last year and haven't really seen any major issues, so they must have fixed it

cinder idol
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Probably. Anyway, Elder Scrolls. We need more drugs, using a Skooma pipe properly for the first time would be great.

weak sapphire
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And drugs need to function like drugs

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None of this weak-ass Addiction garbage in Fallout

cinder idol
weak sapphire
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And if i'm trying to kick a Skooma habit, i want to be chugging healing potions for 3 days straight just to keep myself from passing out from the pain

cinder idol
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Oh, and special interactions while inebriated. Ones that will likely annoy the populace but still. And a perk that ups your combat capabilities the more sloshed you are so you can trade off between accuracy and power.

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Also, an Iron Man difficulty would be good with something akin to the Sheogorath's Protection power.

weak sapphire
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I am not familiar with that ower

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power

weak sapphire
#

One idea i played around with for Drug Addiction is that, when going through withdrawl, you suffer from constant health drain. So you need to rest regularly, or heal, while your body suffers from the detox.

#

Of course, i you're going to implement those sorts of penalties to withdrawl, you need to make Drugs more potent, otherwise no one would ever use them.

#

They should also come with heavier drawbacks for over use though. For instance, every 3 doses of Skooma decreases it's effects by 10%, and increases Withdrawl duration by 100%. So, if it takes 1 day to detox, and you've done 30 doses, you either need to keep popping Skooma just to function (you wouldn't have any benefits from it anymore) or you need to sit in a corner in a cold sweat casting healing spells for 10 days

cinder idol
# weak sapphire I am not familiar with that ower

It works kinda like Minecraft's totem of undying, though you get transported back to Sheogorath's throne, your chamberlain heals you and tells you to be more careful before I think giving the option to return to your previous location or not. It's a lesser power you get for finishing the Shivering Isles main questline.

cinder idol
weak sapphire
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Well, i should mention that when i play around with these concepts, i'm opperating on a split Health/Trauma system inspired by FO4s Radiation

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basically, Health is a moderately quick regenerating resource, while Trauma serves as a cap to that resource. Most weapons inflict Trauma, which can be converted to Health damage if you have enough armour.

#

Health drops to 0, you are rendered unconcious. Trauma hits 100%, and you're dead.

#

This way you ahve a simple mechanism that allows you to have non-fatal attacks, knock enemies out, have soft-defeat options, clear Armour Value translations, and opens up a whole bunch of strategic stat options.

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So, withdrawl is unlikely to actually KILL you, but you could pass out. Which opens up new radiant options like relapsing while blacked out, or waking up naked in a ditch.

#

You could even implement Follower Modifiers, with some followers helping keep you out of trouble, and some who might go on a bender with you. Imagine if you're trying to detox with Preston Carvey around, he's going to make you a tea and keep you in bed, even if you black out. Cait on the other hand will run out and get you some Jet so you can both shoot up (her story missions not withstanding).

#

Does any of that rambling make any sense to anyone?

weary quiver
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If tes6 is set in high rock and hammer fell there is a sea that bisects the two areas which suggests starfield like sailable craft

weak sapphire
weary quiver
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if beth really wanted to they probably could earlier but now the 'tech' is just sitting there. i also expect a shire like area in high rock, and in general a similar landscape to northern middle earth west of the misty mountains

reef hedge
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i dont expect to see high rock

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hammerfell is plenty big enough

weary quiver
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im not sure if focusing on a barren desert land is the way to go or will have broad appeal

weak sapphire
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Hammerell isn't, or rather, shouldn't, just be Desert

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It's got the Alik'r, sure, but that makes up barely a quarter of the province.

#

Plus... this is going to be Post-Dune.

weary quiver
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i dont recall a recent popular game set in desert, plains or tropics. heh would be interesting if someone did a study of the correlation of the environment to a game's sucess.

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desert is great for dysotopian games like dark sun or mad max

weak sapphire
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And was nominated or over 30 awards

stiff bramble
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Metal Gear Solid V?

weary quiver
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yay gaming awards that's legit

#

skyrim i guess started the whole nordic setting. ac valhalla and valheim followed up, and throw in witcher 3 that looks nice if you dont look too closely and is a somewhat similar setting

magic tundra
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witcher 3 isn't really nordic...

weak sapphire
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But overal point being, there is definitely enough potential range in Hammerfell alone to give a wide range of environments.

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From temperate forests up near the Daggerfall border, to scrubland and african savanah near Cyrodiil, to tropical jungles and Hawaii like volcanic islands, to aluvial floodlands like the Nile Valley, to the standard Saharan dune desert, to massive sandstone messas.

stiff bramble
#

Why is everyone convinced TES6 will be in Hammerfell instead of High Rock?

weak sapphire
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I think that, based on the teaser, most people feel it looks more like Hammerfell than Highrock

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Doesn't mean it IS, but... Well, people tend to picture Highrock more like England, and less like rough scrubland

stiff bramble
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I mean, it jives with what we see in Markarth, which borders High Rock.

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Meanwhile, Falkreath borders Hammerfell and it looks nothing like the trailer.

weak sapphire
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Oh, i agree, it's still open.

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From a narrative standpoint, i think there's more interesting stories to tell in Hammerfell, which is why i lean more that way. Highrock is too similar to both Skyrim and what they shat out with Oblivion, and one of the biggest cirticisms against Bethesda for the last 2 games has been the lack of creative design and interesting worldbuilding, when compared to Morrowind.

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So, if they'r elistening, Hammerfell offers room for more of that, without jumping feet first into one of the more outlandish provinces and risking alienating those who LIKE that traditional sort of western fantasy

dim reef
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Maybe quit thinking every province is as alien as morrowind?

stiff bramble
weak sapphire
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Morrowind wasn't alien though. It was weird in some ways, sure, but it was ultimately very grounded and relatable.

dim reef
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It was alien.

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It can literally be grounded but still alien.

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They aren't exclusive things.

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I honestly feel people look at morrowind (vvardenfell specifically) and go "oh yeah. That's nirn" when...no.

stiff bramble
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High Rock can be as interesting as they care to make it. If they want to shuffle some things around to make it varied there's nothing stopping them.

Conversly, they could be super lazy and make Hammerfell Fantasy-Arabia.

weak sapphire
delicate cradle
#

I'm assuming this chat is also for Online?

stiff bramble
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I think that the real issue is that people don't want another game set in High Rock.

weak sapphire
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In the wider narrative, though, i think Hammerfell has more of a role in the worlds story right now. It's independent, and could very easily serve as a backdrop for building tensions between the Dominion and the Empire, giving us a really solid foundation for a political and social story aspect.

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At the same time, the Yokudan mythology and identity is established enough that it offers lots of ready and recognisable threads to explore.

stiff bramble
#

Nuke the Thalmor!

weak sapphire
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Plus, in the 'Ideal' progression of provinces i mentioend awhile back, leaving Highrock for the very last allows for some great symbolism. Nirn, even Mundus, started in Highrock, with Ada-Mantia and Balfiera. Starting a new generation of games, having seen everywhere else, with Highrock brings things full circle.

weak sapphire
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Oblivion... did not.

dim reef
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Oblivion very much did. You not liking it doesn't mean it's true.

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The only real issues with oblivion is simply engine/console limitation. No jungles, scaled cities, etc.

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Doesn't make it bad.

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And skyrim is very interesting.

stiff bramble
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Oblivion is incredibly generic. Ironically, that actually makes it unique among TES games.