My personal guess is they weren't hurt that bad but they purposefully stopped because even if they won, they'd take way more losses which will significantly weaken them in the future. The Thalmor play the long game, they won't take an immediate victory if it means it'll bite them in the future. I think they pulled out to essentially lick any wounds they have and then attack with more power to limit further losses.
Cos' rn even if they don't win, the empire and hammerfell are weakened quite a bit. It'll take time for them to get back up.
#elder-scrolls-general-chat
dim reef
noble verge
If they wanted to purposefully stop, they could have pulled out of Hammerfell after just a year rather than wasting lives and money trying to hold onto Hammerfell for five years.
dim reef
Yeah but the fact that they continued fighting for so long means they clearly weren't hurt that bad from the battle at the Imperial City.
Also if Hammerfell really won a decisive victory, why did they sign a treaty instead of just destroying the thalmor altogether? They know they'll attack again so why stop? Were they not weakened as the redguards thought?
Either both sides were hurt equally bad or the thalmor weren't hurt as bad and purposefully pulled out
noble verge
They were at this point fighting a defensive war trying to hold onto the cities they had already captured.
I'd guess they thought they could hold onto Hammerfell at first, but after five years, it became clear that it wasn't worth it.
dim reef
Like i said. Either they purposefully pulled out thinking it wasn't worth losing so much or both sides took equally heavy losses and essentially reached a stalemate
noble verge
One other thing to consider is that the Dominion has lost several advantages they had. They no longer have the element of surprise, they're no longer fighting foes that aren't geared up for a massive war, and if Legends is canon, they probably don't have the same scrying capabilities that they used to.
pulsar root
I think in the long term they would in theory try to get Hammerfel again. Just not now. They do think Humans are beneath them.
dim reef
That they will. They pretty much say it out loud that they plan on waging a war again
noble verge
I sometimes remember that I'm greatly overthinking all of this. Bethesda writers aren't limited by what info we can scrape together.
dim reef
One other thing to consider is that the Dominion has lost several advantages the...
Also on this. Is anyone ready for a massive war?
Skyrim is weakened by the civil war, the empire and hammerfell were weakened by the great war. The thalmor themselves were likely wounded as well.
Is anyone ready?
It's back to square 1 essentially
noble verge
I mean more in the sense that a standing professional army costs money, and now that there's a clear and present threat to the Empire, they're probably investing a lot more money into their military than they were prior to the war, which preceded many decades of peace.
The Legions now are probably bigger than they were at the start of the Great War, because they know that a war is inevitable.
dim reef
Comparatively yeah ig. Let's see how they actually fare in the war
That is to say IF there is a war. I fear Bethesda will just write them out off screen
feral viper
That is the wider position of the community, yes. But it's based more on feelings and wants, than actual data.
Part of the issue is, we don't even know how big the armies involved were, or how the Dominion military functions.
We have zero data about the disposition of Dominion forces, or their numbers. The Great War could have crippled them, or it could have barely put a dent.
We literally have no information to form a solid opinion with.
noble verge
Decianus withdrew and left Arannelya in possession of Skaven, but the Aldmeri were too weakened to continue their advance.
These veterans formed the core of the army that eventually drove Lady Arannelya's forces back across the Alik'r late in 174, taking heavy losses on their retreat from harassing attacks by the Alik'r warriors.
In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated.
I am not drawing from feelings and wants, I'm pulling straight from in-game lore.
feral viper
The main Dominion army IN CYRODIIL.
That tells us nothing about their forces elsewhere.
noble verge
That's what my first two quotes were for. The invasion force in Hammerfell took too many losses to advance past Skaven, and then took heavy losses when they were pushed back.
feral viper
We don't even know how much of their military was committed to the invasion.
For all we know, Naarfin and Arannelya's forces were more like Crassus invading Parthia.
The loss of two armies means nothing if we don't know how many soldiers were in those armies, or how many field armies that can support.
For reference, and calling back to Crassus, he lost 7 legions and over 40,000 men in his disaster.
And it didn't phaze Romes military capabilities.
Hell, we don't even know the Dominions military structure. Is if noble levies? A standing army? Trained corvee armies?
For all we know, Naarfin's army consisted entirely of his personal levies, and those of a few allies, while most of the levies of the Dominion remain untapped.
noble verge
If they did have fresh armies sitting just offscreen at the time of the Great War, they're irrelevant because if they weren't willing to commit them when they had conquered half of Cyrodiil and Hammerfell and instead agreed to a ceasefire that reversed all of their gains in Cyrodiil, why would they ever make use of them against the Empire now?
It's not impossible (there's an entire trope centered around the notion of the antagonists having unlimited offscreen resources, and another trope centered around the idea that there are as many elves as the plot requires at any time), but given what we've heard of the Dominion's actions preceding and following the Great War, it's a far-fetched possibility because unless the Thalmor are paranoid about an impending conflict with another foe like the Sload or Maormer- which would completely upend the paradigm- there's no reason to settle for the Concordat with a possibility of resuming the war later when they could have won everything back in 4E 175.
feral viper
That's all part of the 'Betheda is vague' issue.
We don't know jack diddly about how the Dominion functions. We don't know populations. We don't know disposition of forces.
Hell, we don't even have this information for the Empire. The number of 5000 men to a legion is a guess drawn from post-Marian Rome.
dim reef
In case of the war I'd say the vagueness actually works in it's favor because it keeps the story interesting. You can't tell who's really crippled or who's not
feral viper
If the Dominion uses feudal levies, instead of a standing army, it's entirely possible that the Great War was structured like the Crusades. Volunteer forces under the command of particular nobles representing the investment of specific families rather than that of the entire state. This is the system they allowed European powers to fight the Crusades, AND eachother, at the same time.
Or if could be a corvee conscription system, where forces are drawn and mustered as needed, meaning the population serves as an uncalled military force. Rome and the Mongols made extensive use of these sorts of systems, as did Egypt and Greece.
Or, it could be a standing army, such as those which became common in the mid Roman Empire, were present in China, and which became increasingly common in early modern Europe.
feral viper
In case of the war I'd say the vagueness actually works in it's favor because it...
Well, that's part of my point. Because it's so vague, we have no way of knowing what state the Dominion was left in after the Great War.
Even with the Empire, the best we can really do is say that it's standing army was below half strength from a pre-war perspective.
timid drum
Love how Terical provides more interesting facts/theories about elder scrolls then my own Japan History college class lmao 
dim reef
Well, that's part of my point. Because it's so vague, we have no way of knowing ...
True but in a way it maintains a sense of uneasyness for all parties because everyone has their own biases. Hammerfell thinks the Dominion could've be defeated and Mede was wrong, Mede thinks it wasn't and they just got lucky.
Politically it keeps the conversation interesting because you can support either side and not be wrong or right.
feral viper
Love how Terical provides more interesting facts/theories about elder scrolls th...
It's the 'tism. I refuse to get checked for it, but my obessiveness a clear indicator.
dim reef
I do dislike the vagueness in some things like historical records that aren't even that old but in terms of what state all provinces are in, I'd say the vagueness does work well
timid drum
It's the 'tism. I refuse to get checked for it, but my obessiveness a clear indi...
Oh yeah, fully agree. I aint complaining tho, it gives me something that I also enjoy to read in classes that bore me
Tho thats the tism and adhd lmao
feral viper
I think a big part of my problem there, Is growing up in the 90s, when a lot of negative stereotypes were still very culturally persistent.
I've put a lot of effort over the years into overriding and discarding those sorts of social biases. But some still cling harder than others.
timid drum
Yeah thats fair
tardy tiger
That's all part of the 'Betheda is vague' issue.
We don't know jack diddly abo...
They might have way more then 5000 given ESO had something like a 33rd cohort?
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:An_Ancient_Love_Letter
Centurion, 33rd Cohort, 2nd Legion
feral viper
Anyway, my core point is, the actual information we have regarding the Dominion and it's state is still too vague to actually draw any sort of reasonable conclusion.
Because of that, any claim about the Dominion is basically just a shot in the dark.
pulsar root
I do dislike the vagueness in some things like historical records that aren't ev...
Bethesda leans on the vagueness a bit TOO hard. Sometimes they just need to be clear and straightforward.
feral viper
They might have way more then 5000 given ESO had something like a 33rd cohort?
That... Would be enormous.
Like, Legions were logistically difficult to command and supply, and it was because of the economic and logistical infrastructure of Rome that they were able to lean so heavily into that sort of military structure.
That's part of what made Rome so powerful.
Having military divisions at least three times the size, would be ludicrous.
Or, their cohorts are considerably smaller..
For context, using the 5000 count, and known legions, I calculated Imperial losses at the Red Ring at about 120,000. If legions are bigger, that number only goes up.
tardy tiger
I do dislike the vagueness in some things like historical records that aren't ev...
Reminds me of a pain of mine.
Trying to dig up information about the Empire's administration but then TES4 botched it by throwing renamed kings into Cyrodiil despite the Empire using Governors.
But everything is so painful in getting information about the Empire because TES in general Doesn't want to write the Empire at all.
Like who was the Governor of Skyrim before Tullius? Who's the Prime Minister of each province? and etc
Prime Minister is a pain because the only sources is Real Barenziah and the Novels.
tardy tiger
For context, using the 5000 count, and known legions, I calculated Imperial loss...
TES going for the old Warhammer trick. There's as many Colovians as the plot demands
tardy tiger
For context, using the 5000 count, and known legions, I calculated Imperial loss...
Soldier numbers go up and so do the Legion numbers.
Because Vvardenfell had 6 Legions in TES3 and were still overstretched (two named legions giving the idea of a Legion per fort).
dim reef
Reminds me of a pain of mine.
Trying to dig up information about the Empire's a...
Tbf they were still ironing out the general political landscape. It took them a while to just cement all of it.
After Oblivion things are clearer and i hope there's no more vast sweeping changes like from Morrowind to Oblivion
Like if ES6 comes out and goes "nah Hammerfell is actually a lush vegetated rainforest" things will get borked up again
tardy tiger
I do recall TES2 Hammerfell supporting jungles in what little there was of it in TES2.
https://images.uesp.net/d/d2/DF-map-Iliac_Bay_Climate.png
Green: Forest/Temperate Woodland #00be00
Dark Green: Subtropical Jungle #009819
Feldgrau Green: Swamp #73998d
Dark Grey: Sub-humid Desert/Rainforest #b4b4b4
Light Grey: Semi-arid Desert #d9d9d9
White: Arid Desert #ffffff
Dark Purple: Highlands/Woodland Hills #bf8fbf
Light Purple: Mountains #e6c4e6
Beige: Haunted Woodland #bea68f
feral viper
TES going for the old Warhammer trick. There's as many Colovians as the plot dem...
Somewhat hilariously, those numbers would be sustainable at Lady N's scale, but not at the more commonly accepted scale.
Though, if we assume that the Dominion had similar losses, we're looking at, like... WWI levels of casualties for a single battle, in a medieval fantasy world.
Which is absurd, even for Warhammer.
tardy tiger
After Oblivion things are clearer and i hope there's no more vast sweeping chang...
I don't think Oblivion made it clearer given it made things more of a mess with the Imperials. Like you could cut the Empire out of TES4 and nothing would change which is silly for the supposed "heartland" of said Empire. Which is probably also why we'll never get any of the Cyrodiil Vampyrum because there is no bureaucracy or structure for them to interact with.
They just don't want to write the Empire. Which TES5 even shows with how little of a presence they even have and how every issue the Nords have with the Empire is tied to the Thalmor. Skyrim also barely feels like a Province of said Empire.
Even with the Civil War everything with the Empire is tied to the Civil war. There's no Governors causing problems be it greed or wanting to usurp the Ruby Throne, barely anything about religion, nothing about trying to force its culture on things (which is a headache of its own because we don't know what "culture" it pushes since it is never touched on) and etc.
tardy tiger
Though, if we assume that the Dominion had similar losses, we're looking at, lik...
Absurd for Warhammer. Before or after they looked at Chinese history?
feral viper
Yeah
I use WWI as the scale reference because more people are familiar with it and the scope.
Chinese history gets wild with some of its battles.
dim reef
I don't think Oblivion made it clearer given it made things more of a mess with ...
Not Oblivion itself.
After Oblivion
Oblivion made a mess but they've been following that mess relatively well till now
feral viper
China actually made extensive use of corvee armies for most of its history, which is part of why they were able to field such immense forces.
Local leaders owned the weapons, and called up peasant levies in times of war in exchange for tax rebates. This allowed them to reliably draw large volumes of admittedly untrained soldiers from the population, leading to the sometimes absurd army sizes in Chinese history.
noble verge
If the Dominion uses feudal levies, instead of a standing army, it's entirely po...
Regardless of whatever organization they used, what we know that when Naarifin's army was destroyed, the Dominion agreed to peace rather than continue the war. The most important detail is they were either unable or unwilling to see it through in 4E 175 even with how weakened the Empire was.
All the hypothetical offscreen armies in the world don't mean a thing if the Dominion isn't making use of them even when they're fighting the biggest war in centuries.
feral viper
If the war was Naarfin's war and not the other nobilities, why would they continue it after he was dead?
Hell, just between Duchies in England and France, we have dozens of examples of this sort of thing. With a parent state signing for peace after a vassals war went south, simply because they didn't really care about it in the first place.
Because we know nothing about how the Dominion operates, socially, administratively, militarily, of even economically, it's impossible to actually make a statement about the why.
Now, I should probably clarify that I don't actually disagree with your conclusion.
I just acknowledge that my own support of it isn't based in hard data.
My position is based more on how I would write the situation than anything.
noble verge
We know it wasn't a private war by Naarifin for a few reasons. The war was immediately preceded by a visit from a Dominion ambassador, and it was ended with a peace deal with the Dominion as a whole, not with Naarifin's personal faction. The dossier on Esbern indicates that the accompanying purge of the Blades was high profile enough that a screw up would result in being recalled to Alinor for reeducation. Everything we've seen, including dialogue from current and former Thalmor, point towards the Great War being an effort on behalf of the Dominion as a whole rather than a lone noble's pet project.
dim reef
I think Narrifin just underestimated how much they'd lose so the Dominion as a whole just scaled back after the war. Willing to restock before attacking again
After everything that happened in Cyrodiil that is
Hammerfell's side of things continued a bit longer but eventually receeded as well
wind torrent
I wonder, when Bethesda will add new races to play?
Just like the maormer or even some akavir and their people
Heck, i could even see finally goblins and riekling at this point
dim reef
I don't think we need more playable races. Instead just flesh out what we already have
trail dust
i hope they expand dwemmer lore the same way they did in skyrim. with lots of lorebooks hidden around in the dwemmer dungeons
nimble pond
If we did get a large war. I hope for crafting to make some epic war devices to deploy upon the enemy.
pulsar root
i hope they expand dwemmer lore the same way they did in skyrim. with lots of lo...
Small but not big enough to explain where they went and why.
dim reef
A dwemer companion would go hard ngl. The 2nd last remaining dwarf
feral viper
We know it wasn't a private war by Naarifin for a few reasons. The war was imme...
Fair points, all.
feral viper
If we did get a large war. I hope for crafting to make some epic war devices to ...
War requires a radically different approach to the games, unfortunately.
tardy tiger
War requires a radically different approach to the games, unfortunately.
Would need Total War or Mount and Blade but those are very different kinds of games built for different things
trail dust
Small but not big enough to explain where they went and why.
yeah, im not sure if i want it revealed or not. sometimes mysteries are better if its not fully explained
slow loom
I'm not really a fan of stories with no conclusion. Some stories work well with multiple interpretations but i don't feel that is the case here. It's alright if it's one or two mysteries but at this point we have 100s. It ends up feeling like a case of we want to have cool lore but not have to explain it or fit it in properly with the world.
Imagine reading a cool story and at the end it says "It was all a dream and meant nothing.". Well you just summed up half the lore in TES.
feral viper
Would need Total War or Mount and Blade but those are very different kinds of ga...
Or, technically, a Kingdom Under Fire game...
trail dust
Imagine reading a cool story and at the end it says "It was all a dream and mean...
all major, long running, lore franchises has open endings/unsolved mysteries. warhammer, elder scrolls, star wars, fallout, Lord of the Rings, Halo etc.
dim reef
I am looking forward to the companions in the next game. I can atleast expect they will be good
Maybe this time around they will have more stronger story relevance like Bioware's games.
They tried a bit of that in Starfield, go all out this time
noble verge
I recently came to the conclusion that I prefer when settings are made for strategy games in mind because it means that on a tactical level all the factions are equally capable of throwing down.
slow loom
all major, long running, lore franchises has open endings/unsolved mysteries. wa...
Warhammer 40k is a bit of a different story considering it's one of if not the largest lore universes ever created. I'm not saying mysteries are bad. I'm saying having too many central parts of your lore as mysteries is when problems occur. I feel like in other franchises the mysteries don't take away from the central story but here in TES in my opinion they do.
noble verge
I'm not really a fan of stories with no conclusion. Some stories work well with ...
I think a problem is when answers are given, they are found to be disappointing. See: Dragon Age Veilguard's lore reveals, or 40k's Terminus Decree.
slow loom
I think a problem is when answers are given, they are found to be disappointing....
Most of the time the lore you create in your head will be better than what the writer comes up with. Thats why some mysteries do work well.
The Lost tv show is a good example of this. It was so hyped up that the conclusion would almost never appease everyone. I'm still glad it had a conclusion instead of being left open ended.
wind torrent
I don't think we need more playable races. Instead just flesh out what we alread...
is just we know the current races, would be cool to see new playable species
tardy tiger
Warhammer 40k is a bit of a different story considering it's one of if not the l...
For mysteries it depends on what it is tbf.
Dwemer disappearance? It's fine.
How the Kamal and Tsaesci looked? Not fine. Especially when the player has been to Cyrodiil and the games put a lot of focus on the Blades. Nevermind all the ghosts that could've seen them and interacted with them
trail dust
Warhammer 40k is a bit of a different story considering it's one of if not the l...
i do agree having too many open endings is bad. but you can advance something without fully revealing it too. so i think ES lore can easily move forward without ruining the magic. all though, like you, i do want some stuff to be revealed
trail dust
I think a problem is when answers are given, they are found to be disappointing....
that terminus decrees was so bad i wouldnt be surprised if they retconned it soon, cause damn
slow loom
As another example. The Lore for TES is like Tolkien writing LOTR and then years later Amazon buys it and makes Rings of Power. Once you lose the original writer, you lose the world and where the story was going in a sense.
pulsar root
I think a problem is when answers are given, they are found to be disappointing....
Part of the problem is the execution of Veilguard was... well not good. Not with the reveal not satisfying anyone. Most of the talk was "Its bad" But thats slightly off topic.
But on topic, I think there is one thing I rather remain mysterious and thats Magic in general, just a vague description, no need to have detailed look at what Aetherius has in its realm.
midnight stag
I’m just wondering for the future of elder scrolls 6 if Bethesda will roll out free cc content in the form of small or big DLC like they did in starfield I know it’s not out yet but I’m just guessing yes in terms of fact that waited so long to make the game as a inscentive to play and buy more
trail dust
As another example. The Lore for TES is like Tolkien writing LOTR and then years...
which is also why the lore of ES have been in decent hands. ESO is now the part that flesh out most of the lore, but bethesda kinda sat the ground rules for lore, from what i heard in interviews. also its set so far behind maingames that it can be dealt with. Its also a rather wild n silly universe too.
dim reef
They'll do what they usually do. Big dlc + CC
slow loom
which is also why the lore of ES have been in decent hands. ESO is now the part ...
I don't see ESO as canon lore. Sure some of it is based on lore. If it comes down to it my guess is most of it will be ignored and Bethesda will continue on with their canon lore.
dim reef
ESO is canon. The Oblivion remaster directly references ESO lore
Not to mention Mehrunes Dagon's new model is right out of ESO
slow loom
You mean it's referenced for the new armour set? Reusing assets to save on development time isn't something that sells me on the idea it's canon.
dim reef
No. It references events from ESO in the character selection backgrounds
slow loom
I didn't realise they changed the details in the character creator from the original to the remaster. Seems like a strange and unnecessary change.
dim reef
It ties everything together. Same reason they changed Dagon and Akatosh's models to resemble their ESO and Skyrim counterparts
In fact if I'm not wrong, Skyrim's AE also has some ESO references
slow loom
I think it's more they just wanted higher definition models to copy.
dim reef
They already made a boatload of new models for existing characters. They could've easily made new ones but they specifically chose the ESO look
slow loom
I do not consider official fan made content from Skyrim AE as lore accurate personally.
dim reef
It's not fan made content. CC content is directly commissioned by Bethesda.
And even if you don't count that, the Oblivion remaster has references now as well so that pretty much confirms it
slow loom
They are just mods that became officially supported.
Retroactively adding in additions to the story to tie it into games that didn't exist at original release is just a retcon.
You are most likely right that it's all canon at this point. But for me at a certain point it becomes fan fiction over being canon to the original story. Just like with Star Wars, how you have multiple levels to what is canon. There is the George Lucas canon and then there is vary degrees of what is considered closer to canon and what is complete fan fiction.
dim reef
No. That is not what Creation Club is.
What you describe are called VCs. They're mods which are verified by Bethesda for sale.
CC is official content that Bethesda themselves contract other people to make. Two completely different things
And the ESO lore doesn't contradict existing lore to be referred to as a retcon.
It adds new lore where there was none originally
slow loom
If you look at the credits for them they are often written by the creator of the content.
dim reef
So? Why won't the credits be written by the creator? That's how credits work
The people who are involved in making things usually write the credits, not the producer or publisher
slow loom
Hiring a third party to make an item and a quest that goes along with it is a low bar for me.
dim reef
That's how contracting works. It's been a thing since gaming was in It's infancy
The Oblivion remaster itself was made by both Bethesda and a third party company
slow loom
As i said before there are varying degrees of canon to me. If you consider a fast food promotional toy to be canon now then we obviously see things very differently.
dim reef
Also Star Wars is a really bad example to compare. The various degrees of lore there often directly contradict each other. ESO doesn't
They've been following established lore pretty well while adding new things
slow loom
Well Star Wars has about 10x more content made for it at this point. Some of the stories are even written by third parties.
dim reef
Way better than even the mainline games i might add.
The changes made from Morrowind to Oblivion made a lot of people angry
jade plover
For mysteries it depends on what it is tbf.
Dwemer disappearance? It's fine.
H...
There problem is the longer you keep something as a mystery the more dissapointing will be the reveal. Because people will create a lot of their own theories
dim reef
As for Star Wars, even back when it was new there were goof ups and inconsistencies right off the bat.
Everyone remembers the Luke and Leia debacle
I like Star Wars but as a franchise it's a mess, always has been
slow loom
As for Star Wars, even back when it was new there were goof ups and inconsistenc...
I get that we will probably never agree. For me though, once you lose the original writer you are mostly just writing glorified fan fiction that is officially endorsed.
dim reef
Well in that case ES has already become glorified fan fiction because the original writers from Arena are gone
slow loom
Well there was a few writers and enough of the original developers to keep it feeling authentic.
dim reef
Nope. The 3 main designers behind it were all gone by Skyrim
slow loom
You are not wrong. There was still enough fuel in the tank and open lore at that point to do another game.
Dragonborne was already written in the lore so it's not completely original.
dim reef
In that case why does ESO not count? It took advice from BGS's main team during it's development which was comprised of the same fuel.
A bunch of what ESO expands upon was also already mentioned before.
jade plover
Also Star Wars is a really bad example to compare. The various degrees of lore t...
Some creation club stuff contradicts with lore and some just doesnt make sense
dim reef
Some creation club stuff contradicts with lore and some just doesnt make sense
Which ones?
slow loom
In that case why does ESO not count? It took advice from BGS's main team during ...
I'll end with this. Do you consider Rings of Power canon to the original movies?
dim reef
I have no idea. Don't know much about that franchise beyond surface level premise
slow loom
Well i don't and it's a similar situation here.
jade plover
You are not wrong. There was still enough fuel in the tank and open lore at that...
Elder scrolls is retconned with every new game, so i dont see any problems with eso lore
No there is one, actually. They retconned kwama and made them boring big termites
dim reef
Yeah. They look like big scribs in ESO for whatever reason. Not a fan of the design
jade plover
Which ones?
I dont remember, some lore knowing dude said it on youtube
dim reef
I dont remember, some lore knowing dude said it on youtube
See, this is why i don't trust YT lore guys. I learnt my lesson from Oxhorn
slow loom
A YT guy is just like us but they make videos. We are all wrong at some point.
jade plover
I'll end with this. Do you consider Rings of Power canon to the original movies?
There is a difference. Lord of the rings is an art of one artist. Nothing is canon other than what Tolkien or maybe his son have written personally. Even Peter Jackson movies are not canon.
Elder scrolls in turn never had a single author. It was always collective creation and there is no one exists who could control it singlehandedly. Who ows the copyright that one is an author
dim reef
Mistake is one thing but they usually never acknowledge it. People on forums usually acknowledge errors but on YT, you'd be lucky if they don't double down on it
Not to say there aren't good lore tubers out there but a bunch of people I've seen are like that
jade plover
Mistake is one thing but they usually never acknowledge it. People on forums usu...
Maybe i will find that video and will tell you what creations he was talking about
slow loom
There is a difference. Lord of the rings is an art of one artist. Nothing is can...
Well games are a bit of a different medium I'll give you that. Once you start outsourcing lore to random modders you kind of lose me though.
jade plover
Modders dont make up lore, they just do what they asked to do. If something is contradictive its bethesda's fault, not modders
slow loom
We already discussed this but the modders are credited as the writer.
dim reef
They aren't really modders in this case. They're contracted devs
jade plover
I know that bethesda workers read all stuff from these mods and fix everything what they dont see as canon
So again,its their fault if quality is bad
dim reef
First of all that's not what CC is to begin with.
They're not mods Bethesda approves, that's what VCs are.
CC is commissioned by Bethesda from the get go
They tell the contracted devs what they want and the devs make it for them
slow loom
So CC is not canon but VC is? See how we can talk ourselves into whatever we want to believe?
dim reef
VC is normal mods that Bethesda can simply approve for sale
jade plover
First of all that's not what CC is to begin with.
They're not mods Bethesda appr...
Not sure about it. Forgotten seasons used to be usual mod before it get into CC, didnt it?
dim reef
CC is official content they commission themselves as in they tell people to make something for them
dim reef
Not sure about it. Forgotten seasons used to be usual mod before it get into CC,...
No. That's VC i.e Verified Creations
Creation Club is what Bethesda funds and commissions themselves
jade plover
No. That's VC i.e Verified Creations
But it is included in Anniversary edition as far as i know
dim reef
But it is included in Anniversary edition as far as i know
There's no mention of it being a mod. The wiki just says it was released as a CC item on 2018
slow loom
I purposefully didn't buy the Anniversary Edition to avoid clogging up my game with what i consider official mods.
jade plover
There's no mention of it being a mod. The wiki just says it was released as a CC...
Okay, for some reason i though it was on nexus before
slow loom
I think we give a little too much credit to Bethesda. It was a quick way for them to make content for a game they didn't actively develop to cash in.
dim reef
They've made the naming convention even worse after Starfield. Now even normal mods are called Creations.
Who the heck is naming these things
jade plover
I think we give a little too much credit to Bethesda. It was a quick way for the...
Thats why a lot of people like eso. Zenimax actually put a lot more effort than bethesda to make proper lore. A lot of stuff they use is old lore fragments that bethesda just abandoned
slow loom
They've made the naming convention even worse after Starfield. Now even normal m...
It's because it never really had any meaning to begin with besides making people see it as important to the game.
jade plover
But on the other hand, new lore they make is not always good. New chapter is trash with reused assets
dim reef
Atleast it was less confusing. Any new player would have no idea what the different tiers of creation are
slow loom
Remember the original paid mods they had on steam? People selling an apple mod for a dollar. The Creation Club was mostly to stop everyone uploading trash.
dim reef
Now you've got.
Creations - normal mods
Verified Creations - paid mods
Creation Club - official content
Amazing naming convention
slow loom
Now would i consider the Doom gun official lore accurate weapons in the Fallout universe? I mean it's official content. Short answer probably not.
dim reef
Atleast with Fallout Emil has confirmed CC is not canon
5 years ago that is, now the NG update directly added some CC into the game which are even credited in the game's credits.
No idea what state they're in now
slow loom
Doom is obviously not canon to the Fallout universe. I think it's safe to say it exists to make money like all creations.
Sure I might be changing the finish line but I think its still a fair comparison. What makes one creation canon over another obviously not canon one? Who draws that line?
dim reef
Also in case of Fallout, Emil said all CC outside of collabs is specifically designed to be lore friendly.
So even if some of them are canon after the update. It doesn't change anything
slow loom
I see so they get to pick and choose the rules a bit and we just go along with it as good consumers.
jade plover
Sure I might be changing the finish line but I think its still a fair comparison...
I guess Emil draws the line
dim reef
Yeah. Collabs are obviously not lore friendly.
Other SP games often do collabs as well that aren't canon
slow loom
Until they change that rule.
dim reef
Well, it is at the writers' hand at the end.
Which brings us back to square one, it's all in the main writers hand
Not a specific game or piece of media.
slow loom
It sure does. Which i have already made my stance known.
dim reef
And considering ES is a franchise which has had multiple drastic changes throughout it's history. I personally don't think it means much anyway
Although it is funny to think the CC content or ESO has made less changes or retcons than the mainline games
slow loom
Well there are some reason for why I let them off for retconning some things early on. Mostly that they weren't expecting the franchise to be as popular as it was and they wrote themselves into a corner.
dim reef
I don't think Morrowind to Oblivion was "early"
slow loom
Is there anything we agree on?
dim reef
No. Better agree to disagree then
slow loom
Well then im done here. No point discussing with someone who has opinions set in stone.
jade plover
Creation club is kinda bad but it is canon because bethesda who ows the copyright for franchise released them as dlc and there is nothing you can do about it🤷🏻♂️
dim reef
I like some of it. The crusader armor is nice.
The dawnfang (i think it's called? The one from the soul divided quest) is nice too
It's got a really unique charge system that's pretty cool
We need more weapons like it
tardy tiger
Doom is obviously not canon to the Fallout universe. I think it's safe to say it...
Dooms more canon to Wolfenstein then Fallout if my memory is working.
Because didn't they connect the protagonists at one point? As like Doom Slayer is a descendant of Blazkowicz or something?
dim reef
I think that was just a meta thing cos' Wolfenstein is essentially Doom's grandfather
pulsar root
I think most people can be reasonable and see what makes sense in CC content and what isn't. Its not too hard.
jade plover
I think most people can be reasonable and see what makes sense in CC content and...
Well, bethesda supposed to do it
timid drum
feral viper
Dooms more canon to Wolfenstein then Fallout if my memory is working.
Because ...
BJ is the great grandfather of Doom Guy.
Which, coincidentally, makes Commander Keen either Doom Guys father, or uncle. It's never been clear.
trail dust
Sure I might be changing the finish line but I think its still a fair comparison...
bethesda does. cause they are bethesda made. hence why those mods are in their own category. and you get all of it for free with anniversity edition of skyrim. its not that difficult
feral viper
Someone needs to make a Dwemer Factory mod for TES.
marsh plinth
Howdy yall
feral viper
feral viper
Howdy yall
Sup
marsh plinth
How are ya
dim reef
Someone needs to make a Dwemer Factory mod for TES.
What kind of factory? Cake?
feral viper
Useless metal spanners
feral viper
What is made does not matter. All that matters, is that the factory must grow
slow loom
bethesda does. cause they are bethesda made. hence why those mods are in their o...
I think we are missing the point that it's my personal opinion not fact. Bethesda could come out tomorrow and say all mods are canon but that doesn't mean I have to believe them and make it my head canon. Eventually you see enough of your favourite franchises get destroyed for money that you don't have to believe what a billion dollar organisation tells you.
trail dust
youre being disingenuous with your argument.
dim reef
Man. Y'all need to first differentiate it right. CCs aren't mods. VCs are mods
slow loom
Well thats because it's not an argument but personal opinion. Anyways.
pulsar root
Ahh, gotcha
wide garnet
Someone needs to make a Dwemer Factory mod for TES.
I’m a little curious about how that would work. And “factory management” would be an interesting challenge to tackle.
feral viper
To be honest, I think Starfield would have been the game to implement it. But expansions and content for that game seems... Not a priority.
Now, I COULD imagine ways that such an idea could be integrated into TES in some manner or a other.
dim reef
Idk why it's not already in the game. Fallout 4 already had the workshop dlc for factory stuff
feral viper
Idk why it's not already in the game. Fallout 4 already had the workshop dlc for...
Look, the game can't even let me put doors where I want them. Factories are far beyond it.
pulsar root
Doors don't like us either. 🤣
stark flower
https://tenor.com/view/critical-role-crit-role-cr-arsequeef-campaign1-gif-184516...
Me and my party in DND the other day (the door was unlocked)
feral viper
This is the way
I sometimes just make the door a little stick. Not locked or trapped. Just stuck.
stark flower
Evil.
jade plover
I think information from any source other than Bethesda or Microsoft is banned here
dim reef
Ah well. Alright then
feral viper
The 'leak' is largely irrelevant without more information anyway. Especially in a world where delays are becoming the norm, instead of a rarity.
dim reef
Technically it wasn't about the game itself. More about a developer in particular but still.
feral viper
Ah, well, nothing that detailed turned up on my cursory investigation.
feral viper
I found something unexpected today...
It's the stack of receipt paper pages I had compiled with scribbled notes about RPGs, especially TES.
Still legible! Which is unexpected for thermal paper.
Pffft... Husbandry... What was I thinking.
timid drum
Bethesda should hire you as the scribe lmaooo
night ember
okay wtf I just got back from the battle of windhelm and my entire family is gone including the steward. only housecarl is left. What do I do
you guys made this game way dumber than the last couple you'd think that'd come with some bug fixes so the morons you were hoping to intrigue don't get stuck.
night ember
they came back lets goooo
livid ingot
Pffft... Husbandry... What was I thinking.
There's a game coming out... well supposedly this year... where you breed horses to use in your courier duties across the Mongol empire. I definitely want it lol.
nimble pond
Is it supposed to be a crossover of My Little Pony meets Fallout: New Vegas?
night ember
ok black reach is sick as hell
in general the dungeons are actually sick, and while a lot of the lore has been diluted the new stuff with the dwarves is great
tardy atlas
Blackreach showed us that Skyrim was actually capable of alien environments, which is nice considering how plain the Overworld is.
A lot of mods use the Blackreach graphics set, but don't really understand its design.
nimble pond
That's really cool. It makes me wonder of something underground Tamriel that has since been buried for thousands of years. Like a crashed star or huge meteorite with life on it and unknown plant life (maybe even a secret hidden tower nobody ever knew about).
Could of done something similar with all that ice in Skyrim.
dim reef
Black Reach to me always felt like an infinitely better version of the Deep Roads from Dragon Age
feral viper
It's basically the Middle Dark. Like most things, just rip from D&D. You'll get a decent product out of it.
dim reef
I do wish we had a 4th dungeon type in Skyrim for Akaviri architectures. A shame they only show us one single temple even tho lore wise there should be multiple structures like that all around
pulsar root
If only it was bigger(Blackreach)
dim reef
The size is probably a hardware limitation thing.
dim reef
It kind of already did. If they did make it bigger it'd have probably caused another Red Mountain
nimble pond
Atmosphere matters alot. I'm wishing for either a total solar eclipse, or a catastrophic storm or major flood going on during the introduction event of the game.
dim reef
We already got solar eclipses. Need something else
nimble pond
A major earthquake splitting the ground open would be hella fine too
dim reef
Tornadoes would be cool
nimble pond
We already got solar eclipses. Need something else
I'd like natural-occuring ones though. Not the blood bow
pulsar root
Bethesda at least from my experience don't go too high on spectacle when it comes to some situations narratively. I welcome it but they seem to not dive deep into that kind of thing. I think the intro should try to be more neutral instead of the tired "You're a prisoner" trope they've been doing since forever.
dim reef
That's due more because they're kinda bad at spectacles than a lack of attempt tbf
For all intents and purposes a literal dragon god attacking an entire town should be the coolest thing ever but how does it actually play out?
We all know
Fallout 4 is the only game where they got the opening spectacle right. The nuke scene was amazing
nimble pond
Tornadoes would be cool
100ft tsunamis too
nimble pond
For all intents and purposes a literal dragon god attacking an entire town shoul...
It was alright I thought. Just needed more falling buildings and building destruction. Helgen was just too small and uninteresting. Like bro, why are you attacking backwoods town. Go flame Solitude..
dim reef
And unique animations
It's really stupid seeing the dragons do their normal bite animations in cutscenes and people just tanking them like nothing happened
nimble pond
Take a bite, and only the legs are left, walking around before they fall over
dim reef
Also yeah, it was quite dissapointing none of the major cities ever got attacked by dragons
They always go for riverwood or falkreath or morthal and stuff. Never Whiterun, Solitude or Windhelm
nimble pond
Well, Whiterun, but like nothing really happened. You just catch him in the trap
pulsar root
They always go for riverwood or falkreath or morthal and stuff. Never Whiterun, ...
Unless you have one of those dragon mods and they do attack the city...its kinda silly Snicker
dim reef
I'd love for more harder choices in terms of saving cities. Like in DATV, you have to choose between Treviso and Minrathous
The one you don't save takes massive damage and casualties
I like that one quest in Starfield where one of your companions dies and you have to choose who does. That was pretty cool.
night ember
I do wish we had a 4th dungeon type in Skyrim for Akaviri architectures. A shame...
I imagine we'll get a bunch of akavari stuff in 6, if for no other reason than bethesda wants to let players make asian characters lmao
would be hype was always kinda underwhelming that the akaviri guy in oblivion is generic
nimble pond
I always wanted to be an Asian Lizard. Kung Pow Argonian.
noble verge
Blackreach showed us that Skyrim was actually capable of alien environments, whi...
What's really wild is that ESO showed that the Blackreach cavern in TES V is just one small part of a much larger cave network.
noble verge
I'd love for more harder choices in terms of saving cities. Like in DATV, you ha...
That's an easy choice: let Riften get destroyed.
I'd also suggest Markarth, but it's pretty much dragon-proof.
No flammable buildings and no space for a dragon to maneuver.
tardy atlas
What's really wild is that ESO showed that the Blackreach cavern in TES V is jus...
That was more or less my assumption before Greymoor came out. It's modeled after the underground from the Forgotten Realms
Speaking of which, Castle Greymoor going from the ground to the ceiling of Blackreach was great, one of the few things I can say I loved about that DLC. I maintain that storywise it was one of the worst.
noble verge
I think the plot of Greymoor tied interestingly into Valerica's views in TES V, how she doesn't think that vampires can defeat mortals even without the sun holding them back.
If she hadn't already left for the Soul Cairn at that point, she could've potentially witnessed firsthand the Gray Host's defeat.
dim reef
No flammable buildings and no space for a dragon to maneuver.
Flammable may not be a problem but Concrete can still start melting at high temperatures. The Stones can melt into magma as well.
Concentrated fireball attacks can be dangerous to all the stone structures.
trail dust
They always go for riverwood or falkreath or morthal and stuff. Never Whiterun, ...
you never got dragons attack in whiterun, windhelm or solitude? i had to download a mod to stop em from attacking big cities like those. you get it constantly if you fast travel too much
dim reef
No. They may attack the exterior but once you get in no one attacks me anymore
trail dust
you probably dont fast travel a lot. i used to dread the sound of dragons after fast travels cause of it. and fighting em in solitude is a pain. takes long time cause theres like 3 spots to land, then you gotta run through the city to see if they killed anyone important. and if they did you gotta do it all over again
dim reef
I do fast travel a lot but I've never once seen a dragon attack inside big cities
When i head out the gates, attacks happen but inside never once
trail dust
did they change it? like they did with vampire attacks
dim reef
Vampire attacks still happen for me but not dragons
nimble pond
Flammable may not be a problem but Concrete can still start melting at high temp...
Aw that would be so cool to see
vagrant aurora
Is this a good place to post what we would like to see in ES6? If not, can you point me in the right direction, plz?
nimble pond
Is this a good place to post what we would like to see in ES6? If not, can you p...
Yes.
vagrant aurora
I've been writing down a lot of ideas lately. So, I'll post a few each day and give people the opportunity to discuss them. Thank you, Gin & Toxic
Elder Scrolls 6. Things I'd like to see Part 1 (obviously, I know all of this won’t make it in the game, if any. Just hoping someone from BGS sees this and it sparks an idea or two 🙂 These are in no particular order, just spitballing. If it doesn’t make it into the game at launch, perhaps some could be added in a DLC.
1-4 player co-op. Even 2-player co-op would be heavenly.
New races: gnomes, dwarves, halflings, goblins, a birdlike character, a fairy, merfolk, demon-like, ghost-like, trolls, druid, warlock, hunter, witch, just something new.
Skills/perks: depending on the skill or perk, it must be earned or learned through an action or quest rather than simply selecting it to gain its ability on a skill tree.
More Mythical creatures(keep vampire and werewolf, but add): cyclops, centaur, minotaur, mermaid, yeti, Bigfoot, sandman, or something entirely new.
More enemies that feel like bosses and mini bosses with unique fighting mechanics.
Fully handcrafted world. No A.I. generated areas of the map, please.
Better, more emotional facial animations and less stiffness in NPCs.
Every dungeon, cave, and building is unique. No two are alike. No Deja vu moments.
Unique lockpicking for different doors, chests, and other unlockables. Thinking of the mobile game “Boxes Lost Fragments.”
More ways to traverse the world: climbing, gliding, hurdling, mantling, swinging, ziplines, character may snap better to walking across logs, pole vaulting, better swimming, and the ability to jump while sprinting. Prone position. Double jump? Springs? Can trip over objects, slip on ice, and fall. Catch an updraft on a glider like in Zelda. Move more slowly in goopy mud, shallow water, thick brush, vines, etc.
Usable cloaks
trail dust
Elder Scrolls 6. Things I'd like to see Part 1 (obviously, I know all of this wo...
bethesda havent had AI made areas, but theyve used procedural generation for nearly every game. they adjust it by hand after from what ive learned from interviews. even skyrim was made this way
dim reef
They mostly generate the terrain with procedural generation but everything else is handcrafted.
Starfield relies on it more heavily hence it's many problems
nimble pond
Elder Scrolls 6. Things I'd like to see Part 1 (obviously, I know all of this wo...
A side DLC thing for multiplayer things like "mini-games/partygames." Not attached to the player's world, but separate mini-games you can do with people around the world whether teamed or free-for-all.
This would remove any limitations on creativity for the mini/party games themselves.
I think that would be alright. Small, but effective.
Not sure if ESO already has mini/party games or if it's just pure mmorpg. I've never played it.
trail dust
multiplayer would be so much, kinda like skyrim together
dim reef
It'll just add extra luggage. I'd rather they focus just on the SP aspect first
nimble pond
Elder Scrolls 6. Things I'd like to see Part 1 (obviously, I know all of this wo...
As for new races, playing as a unique, one-of-a-kind model of Animunculi, would be neat. Basically you have your player soul powering the vessel, maybe thru a unique soul gem that you control.
And while not a race per say.. (but we'll call it undead), playing as a Lich would be awesome.
pulsar root
No I think Singleplayer is all thats needed.
nimble pond
Elder Scrolls 6. Things I'd like to see Part 1 (obviously, I know all of this wo...
Besides skill trees, I hope they implement "job" trees as well you can rank up in whatever direction you pick to go with it. Maybe you started out chopping wood super slow and now much faster, or gained a silver tongue in selling goods at a stall business you run.
dim reef
I only hope there's more hybrids like Lyris
Even if you can't play as one, it's wild there aren't more like her despite there being countless cross species love stories
trail dust
No I think Singleplayer is all thats needed.
yeah, its all thats needed, but playing with a friend would be fun, even if it got released through a DLC
nimble pond
Elder Scrolls 6. Things I'd like to see Part 1 (obviously, I know all of this wo...
As for usable cloaks, it just reminds me of consumable "scrolls" and I dislike the scrolls. I always end up just selling them or decorating with em.
I think it'd be cooler if they came in the form or "tarot cards." Like Gambit. And with faster use so you're not getting interrupted using it.
And open up the "black market" of magic. A middle trading ground between "honorable" mages & necromancy. Sort of a "gray" area between the two extremes. The Daedra could be involved here as well.
dim reef
How does one even use the scrolls. Like do you just eat them?
Why do they dissapear after one use?
nimble pond
How does one even use the scrolls. Like do you just eat them?
You do a funny dance.
dim reef
And the dance doesn't even include the scroll in it's animation 😭
dim reef
Speaking of scrolls. I hope they let you use an Elder Scroll as a weapon
I get you can't use it as armor but I'm sure you can bash someone's head with it right?
I also love how the scroll Serana carries on her back is comically large compared to the ones you or npcs read.
It's like double the size for some reason
nimble pond
Speaking of scrolls. I hope they let you use an Elder Scroll as a weapon
That could be a sick inspiration for a one of a kind blade.
dim reef
That could be a sick inspiration for a one of a kind blade.
The Elder Blade
nimble pond
Comes with the animation effect you see when you open them as you swing it. The effect it causes? I don't know, lot of ideas for that.
dim reef
It could have an effect where you open it to enemies which blinds them
nimble pond
But when you carry it on your hip or back it would look like just a elder scroll, till you swing it and it transforms into it's weaponized appearance.
nimble pond
It could have an effect where you open it to enemies which blinds them
Or a shield. Whenever you "raise" it aimed at an enemy it temporarily blinds them for as long as you hold it up at them.
Would be completely useless against the Falmer ofc, lol.
Lastly, if sailing ships turn out to be a thing. One cool aspect of it would be modeling some very unique and creative player homes that travel with you, ..on the water at least.
dim reef
They should honestly go full Bioware where you collect all your companions in a single place and coordinate with them on how to save the world
Starfield kind of has that with the Lodge but all the companions were already a part of it.
Would be nice if you slowly collect a rag tag group on your own this time
wide garnet
How does one even use the scrolls. Like do you just eat them?
No, you “equip” them, and the magic consumes the paper when you cast the spell on them.
dim reef
So in a sense you do eat it
wide garnet
So in a sense you do eat it
I suppose you could say that.
vagrant aurora
Glad to see people responding to the ideas weather they like them or not. More ideas coming tomorrow!
tiny lagoon
Can someone help me please
vagrant aurora
Can someone help me please
What do you need help with?
tiny lagoon
I can’t identify an outfit piece. The torso to be specific. I send a screenshot in the screen channel
tiny lagoon
What do you need help with?
Been looking for ages lol
vagrant aurora
It appears to be a Dr. Doom outfit in ESO but I haven't played much ESO so i wont be much help, sry.
Im assuming the [EU] behind Dr. Doom is for Europe. Does ESO have region locked items?
tiny lagoon
It appears to be a Dr. Doom outfit in ESO but I haven't played much ESO so i won...
No worries, I’ve been slowly developing a dr doom fit and the torso is perfect
Possibly idk I’ll have to check
vagrant aurora
Try the Leyndell Knight set. Google tells me that might be the one. If not that then it could be from a couple other sets such as the Guardian set or the Aristocrat set.
tiny lagoon
Thank you
nimble pond
They should honestly go full Bioware where you collect all your companions in a ...
For whatever reason, I just hate it, lol. Wasn't a fan of it in Starfield. But I get what you're saying. 'Knights of the Round Table' TES edition.
Preferably I'd just like chain-of-command structure where you run you're own kingdom, have generals and all that.
noble verge
They should honestly go full Bioware where you collect all your companions in a ...
As long as it's not like NWN2 or KOTOR II (which admittedly are Obsidian games) where companions join up and move in without you having any say in the matter even when they're clearly super untrustworthy.
dim reef
As long as it's not like NWN2 or KOTOR II (which admittedly are *Obsidian* games...
Nah those definitely did it poorly but Bioware's games have done it well.
I'd especially like if the ending utilizes all of them as well. Like you assign them to different areas and based on your choices they either do good and survive or die
night ember
woah serena has way more going on than most companions
really cool to have something approaching a bioware companion in a game as open ended as skyrim
vagrant aurora
Day 2 of "Things I'd like to see in The Elder Scrolls 6.
Ability to turn off encumbrance. If not, then more gradual encumbrance. The ability to fast travel while encumbered to a certain extent. Alternatively, one must walk encumbered to the nearest stagecoach and can ride encumbered for an additional fee. It is harder to swim, climb, etc., while encumbered. OR, allow the player to send items back to your home chest through the inventory menu like in Diablo 4 or BG3. Maybe your horse can pull a cart, said cart can be attacked by bandits.
Call your mount from anywhere.
Unique mounts: on land, in water, and in air. The ability to attack with weapons and magic from a mountback.
Survival elements that you can toggle on/off.
jade plover
Day 2 of "Things I'd like to see in The Elder Scrolls 6.
Ability to turn off e...
Tbh weight system in games like TES doesn't make sense at all. It has no purpose, just an annoying thing
So they could just remove it
Or add actual gameplay purpose
feral viper
I'm a supporter of a proper weight and encumbrance system, and discarding Armour Encumbrance entirely.
Tie Encumbrance directly to weight. Make it gradual, rather than all at once. That way you as the player have more wiggle room as to how slow is too slow for YOU.
It also allows you to have carry weight increases have more direct gameplay impact.
vagrant aurora
How do you guys feel about unique mounts and survival elements in ES6?
dim reef
They already added a survival mode in Skyrim's AE and FO4/Starfield have one as well.
ES6 will most certainly have one
tardy tiger
Survival elements are best as optional.
Mounts depends on how it's done like is it camels vs horses or just horses with different stats? Mounted Combat also needs to be improved.
dim reef
I want vehicles honestly. A desert steam train would be nice
pulsar root
Fallout is in another chat.
slow loom
I think encumbrance will most likely use the Starfield system. Where you can increase carry weight massively but earn less xp.
The main problem with trying to design a system for a few people is that it will make others unhappy. People are too use to modding Bethesda games to their liking that you can never please everyone with the vanilla game. People still expect the vanilla game to have everything they've come to expect from their favourite mods. So we end up with systems likes in Starfield that have huge flexibility in how you can play but no signifying restraints that most great games have. They try to please everyone and end up making it formless in design.
I do agree with a tiered carry system though. Having heavy, medium and light loads that make you move faster or slower.
dim reef
Encumbrance is a really hard feature to get right eitherway. Most rpgs struggle with it.
A lot of them just lock you out from picking more stuff if it exceeds the weight limit
pulsar root
I think encumber system should be mildly more generous. Not massively as its not a problem. I don't care for the system in general but I don't think removing it will add anything.
slow loom
Well it needs to come to modern day rpg standards where they either have things like ingredients be weightless or having limits on the amount of one kind of item that you can hold.
feral viper
How do you guys feel about unique mounts and survival elements in ES6?
I am mixed.
I think that, while visually cool, unique mounts tend to be jarring and often tacky.
It's interesting when done right, terrible when done... Well, most of the time..
dim reef
Ingredients being weightless would be way too OP considering modern Bethesda games heavily rely on crafting and collecting junk
slow loom
I'm not sure how a trip back to town to dump it in the closest barrel really changes much besides frustration and time wasting.
feral viper
As far as Encumbrance goes... This is something I am radical about.
Though, let's be real, what am I NOT a radical about around here...
timid drum
The clouds being white (joking)
feral viper
The clouds being white (joking)
Nah, they're shades of grey
timid drum
point stands lol
dim reef
It makes it more of a hindrance that you can't just collect everything in one go and have to slowly carry it all back.
Letting you carry all the junk you want in one go would make it too simple
I mean it is already simple but that would simplify it even more
slow loom
Weightless mods are usually some of the more popular mods in Bethesda games.
dim reef
So are 18+ mods but that don't mean it's good no?
slow loom
whataboutism
dim reef
Bruh you're the one who brought mods up
stark flower
Friendly reminder to remain respectful to each other
pulsar root
They're good as mods but a bit too OP for a standard feature.
dim reef
Pretty much my thought
slow loom
Starfield already has it built in so obviously Bethesda doesn't agree.
dim reef
It also has the whole oxygen thing
slow loom
...
dim reef
If ES6 also has the whole oxygen/co2 thing sure i won't mind the same encumbrance mechanic
feral viper
I think the popularity of Weightless Mods stems from how terrible the weight and encumbrance systems in game are.
The popularity of 18+ mods stems from people being monkeys with monke-brain
dim reef
In fact that's not a bad idea honestly
The oxygen/co2 mechanic is a good way to simplify the weight system while also maintaining some limits
slow loom
As i said previously you will never please everyone with only one system in Bethesda games so instead we end up in this situation. Some people want it one way and others want it another with neither side realising both are valid.
feral viper
If weight was actually an interesting system you could engage with, instead of a clunky loot limit, you may find people less inclined to just turn it off..
dim reef
People still do even in games with good weight systems. It's one of those things no one fully agrees on
feral viper
The only game with a good weight system I've ever seen, was Project Zomboid.
Rimworld's is ok... Though it's better with a Backpack mod that adds Bulk limitations as well as Weight...
dim reef
Stalker's system isn't too bad I'd say
feral viper
Fair point. Been awhile since I played Stalker.
dim reef
Yet people still mod it out 😭
feral viper
Personally, I think Armour Encumbrance should be discarded entirely. Thats not how armour works, and if it's impairing your movement that much your armourer is incompetent.
dim reef
That could be a good mechanic honestly.
As your armor quality degrades it increases it's weight value
feral viper
Tie Encumbrance directly to weight. The more you carry, the faster you tire out and the slower you move.
This makes heavier armours instantly more encumbering simply by merit of being heavier. It also means that carrying around too much junk can slow you down the same.
slow loom
If armour is equipped it shouldn't weigh so much as a possibility. Having weapons and armour in your bag weigh nothing is a different story.
feral viper
This allows for Carry Weight increases through things like Strength now have more generalised value. Feather and Burden spells also have more application and utility.
slow loom
Thats if they bring those spells back.
feral viper
Feather is basically a given.
Burden, less so. But that's because it was so sodding useless in the past.
This sort of change makes it useful. Now there's a reason to have it, and use it, because ANY increase to weight can potentially slow an enemy down.
You basically end up with an approach that not only does what the current Armour Encumbrance model does natively, but also has far wider application, more options for interaction, and more individual versatility.
slow loom
I'm all for variety but i wonder about it's actual use by the average player.
dim reef
At this point they might as well cram everything in like GTA san andreas and let the player figure out what they like or don't like
feral viper
I'm also a fan of Bulk systems, sooo...
slow loom
Games at their heart are a set of rules not a set of freedoms. Designing millions of systems that a handful of people might use is a bad waste of resources and a company would never waste money that way. It would be a cool but it's not reasonable or feasible to expect that.
feral viper
Pockets should not increase carry weight. They just increase storage volume..
dim reef
One thing i do hope they improve is the dialogue system. ES's dialogue system always has been quite janky
feral viper
Again, radical... But I think FO4s system was a stroke of brilliance.
dim reef
It took them until Skyrim to figure out normal dialogue instead of
"Ask x"
"Give x"
feral viper
That brilliance was then beaten in an alley and had its wallet stolen, but...
slow loom
It was an improvement in some ways and a step back in others.
dim reef
It's not gone. 76 still has it
A more improved version of it with more dialogue, checks and no 4 choice limit
feral viper
Even the 4 choice limit wouldn't have been as much of a problem if anyone bothered to just do nested options.
dim reef
Starfield also partially still has that system.
You're just locked into convos until tab out. For some reason.
You can still get interrupted mid dialogue but you can't cancel it by walking away and what not
feral viper
Like, even with only 4 inputs, you could access between 12 and 16 dialogue options with fewer keystrokes than the traditional list.
Find me and RPG that has ever needed more than 10 dialogue options.
It was a great system, it was just used like trying to hang glide with a fishing net.
dim reef
They were essentially trying to implement Bioware's wheel without understanding why Bioware's wheels work
It's strange because they implemented a Bioware style companion system so well but messed up the wheel
feral viper
I think going for a voiced PC, whole trying to maintain the more Bethesda PC, contributed to the absolute cluster result as well.
dim reef
Nah i don't think so. Far Harbor managed to implement checks, more choices and nests without sacrificing VA
This one's entirely on the design team
feral viper
Fair enough
dim reef
Also so much of the VA was wasted on similar dialogues because of the 4 hardcoded options.
Say a sequence requires you to stop talking. At max it needs 1 option but in 4 there's 4 different options that are variations of "that's it" "I'm done" "that's all"
And it's all individually voiced
feral viper
But, back to work.
feral viper
Also so much of the VA was wasted on similar dialogues because of the 4 hardcode...
Not just hard-coded. WASTED.
slow loom
For me the dialogue felt best when you had a proper conversation with npcs. The feeling like there was hidden dialogue you could find and special outcomes that had multiple dialogue levels to reach. But it got dumbed down to 3 choices that are all the same thing and a speech check. It made conversations feel meaningless and were mostly just to get to the end.
Even though they tried to semi fix it later the magic of the system was gone at least for me.
feral viper
Can't expect proper use of the option slots when they didn't even know what Sarcasm is though...
dim reef
https://tenor.com/view/riding-horse-toby-kebbell-messala-ben-hur-riding-fast-gif...
Back to the vehicle discussion. I hope there's flying things too
Zeppelin style airships would be nice
feral viper
I definitely think such a thing is mechanically doable... But the world space needs to be large enough to justify it..
Which comes with its own problems
tardy tiger
Zeppelin style airships would be nice
If only TES would remember the Empire had those.. But then Oblivion happened.
trail dust
Zeppelin style airships would be nice
like the legend of the dragonborn mod 
noble verge
If only TES would remember the Empire had those.. But then Oblivion happened.
They had one, it crashed.
Unfortunately the manufacturer is out of business.
tardy tiger
They had one, it crashed.
At least one. Given Richtons position there's bound to be more. Lore scale IC probably even has a airport given what the Remans supposedly got up to.
Mages Guild even made one.
night ember
the writing in this game is so duuuuuuumb lol. Wtf is this thing with killing paarthurnax? Could be interesting but because everyone's sentences can't be too long or complicated it's just this stupid non choice. This game is like call of duty the rpg, fun but with no substance on nearly every level.
noble verge
The "kill Paarthurnax" thing makes me wish I could personally lead the Thalmor to Sky Haven.
dim reef
I understand the logic behind it. Just wish there was more to the quest
night ember
Why is every idea presented in this game communicated in its most basic form available. I could get over "alduin is the son of akatosh" and the nords dropping their pantheon but even the stuff this game introduces doesn't go anywhere interesting.
dim reef
Cos' Delphine isn't entirely wrong. Party Snacks may fail to turn the dragons around and it could lead to another war. It's a gamble one way or another
But the way the quest presents it just doesn't work
night ember
but it's a line of dialogue, that's why I said it could be interesting but it's just your blades giving you an ultimatum without any explanation.
this would be such a great chance to dive into the essence of what the dragons are as sentient beings
dim reef
That's in general the problem with the main quest. The core writing and lore is good but the actual storytelling and execution just falls flat
trail dust
the writing in this game is so duuuuuuumb lol. Wtf is this thing with killing pa...
people say this then fall for the most obvious thalmor propaganda
in fact so many people do that i now think its very well written and done, and the issue lies with people
if people looked on all games the same way bethesda hardcore fans do with bethesda games; there would be no game deemed great. apart from a handfull of games
night ember
"I was a tad pissed about Skyrim changing Nordic worship into a Cyrodilic copy. I don't really see why they did it, other than to make things easier to grasp for simpletons. (2013-12-21)
If you could see the original planned implementation, you'd be even more pissed. And your reasoning for why is the real reason; in fact, breaking up the pantheons at all was "a mistake" to certain parties." Actually hilarious, now I'm curious what their idea was to make it even dumber
night ember
if people looked on all games the same way bethesda hardcore fans do with bethes...
I feel like bethesda fans are so locked into this argument with their "haters" that they can't individually parse the pros and cons of their games. I'm not really a fan myself, just played a couple of their games and been really enjoying the elder scrolls series while taking serious issue with this latest entry. Combat writing, rpg systems - these are all areas rpgs have been able to wholly improve on with much less money at their disposal. Obviously as an elder scrolls game it still has the advantage of being this beautiful storied world with tons of unique side content but that doesn't mean it's perfect.
trail dust
"I was a tad pissed about Skyrim changing Nordic worship into a Cyrodilic copy. ...
i would not. this is not a good argument against skyrim. "other than to make things easier to grasp for simpletons" yet 90% of people i talk to, and see on social media, fall for the most obvious "a youtuber told me so" lore. dont look it up, and cant even read a single lore book from skyrim itself
dim reef
What happened to the nords and Skyrim is nowhere near what happened to Cyrodiil in Oblivion.
All the games keep changing things, if anything it's less now than it was before so things are slowly getting more consistent
Or Atleast i hope so. Turns out ES6 turns the Redguards Purple or something
night ember
i would not. this is not a good argument against skyrim. "other than to make thi...
again here you are fighting ghosts lol. The other skyrim fans who only watch youtuber videos. You can't argue against bethesda intentionally dumbing down the culture of the main race of this title so all of the sudden the problem is with some community behavior. Personally I'm working on my player home library where I read all my books between adventures. One of my favorite parts of the game easily.
trail dust
again here you are fighting ghosts lol. The other skyrim fans who only watch you...
you call it dumbing down without acknowledging the complexity they brought in. you look at one side of the coin then argue its bad, cause you didnt bother to look at the other side
trail dust
I feel like bethesda fans are so locked into this argument with their "haters" t...
Skyrim have more rpg elements than any other of their games. you have more choices than their other games. playing oblivion really highlighted how shallow some parts of their older games are, and how much some systems really added depth to the RPG part of their games. not having crafting, survival and camping, alone removes a lot of RPG elements
night ember
you call it dumbing down without acknowledging the complexity they brought in. y...
Not really sure what you mean but tell me about the other side
night ember
Skyrim have more rpg elements than any other of their games. you have more choic...
I agree about the crafting and general lifestyle stuff. It is cool but my main issue with it is that it's not deep enough to spend even five minutes on. Dunno what you mean about the rpg stuff, you can't really build a unique character like the previous games since you can kind of do everything. I would say skyrim has the most variety of any elder scrolls game, but the least depth
also just read that alessia merged the original nordic pantheon with the elven one to create the 8 divines. That makes it so much worse, clearly the nords were a key part of the metaphysical truth the series was working towards and then that just got scrubbed for their starring game lmao
pulsar root
I think story changes shouldn't be too drastic because one should respect previous continuity unless maybe there's something really disliked by fans but again care should be taken when considering that. I think the only exception that would go against this is my feelings on Bretons.
feral viper
you call it dumbing down without acknowledging the complexity they brought in. y...
There was a lot of movement forward in the mechanics, character options, and RPG dynamics, yes.
And despite general complaints, regarding Bethesda 'Dumbing down' their games, they continue to develop this aspect.
Now, worldbuilding, culture, and setting... Those are a totally different barrel of half-drawn fish.
tardy tiger
Why is every idea presented in this game communicated in its most basic form ava...
The Nords changing the pantheon is fine. The issue is the lack of world building behind it.
Like we get so little information about the Medes actually ruling Skyrim or how Skyrim reacted to Dagon's failed attempt to destroy the world.
night ember
The Nords changing the pantheon is fine. The issue is the lack of world building...
yeah but since those decisions were based off laziness and pandering to a wider audience to begin with, there's no way they would make extra work out of them
what's the benefit of the retcon if it requires you to write a whole super interesting religious war
tardy tiger
yeah but since those decisions were based off laziness and pandering to a wider ...
The issue was it was neither of them (never mind lazy never works with game dev).
Bruce Neismith cut it because he thought people would get confused which is a him issue.
The "Generic Divines" are just poorly done by the game series that I honestly think at most it would only change the names of gods used in dialogue if they had gotten the Nordic pantheon in on the NPCs (it's still in for the Nordic ruins and tombs).
The Civil War's writing has a lot of issues and it comes down to more then just religion.
The Empire is barely a thing within their own "Province" because TES doesn't want to write the Empire properly. Every issue the Nords have is tied to the Thalmor and not a foreign government pushing its culture (what "Culture" the Empire even pushes is its own headache) and religion on things. Even Markraths silver is being handled by locals and not something like the Empire controlling it (even Tullius' spy is all related to the Civil war). Also the mess that is the Empires own Government and administration due to a lack of Governors so Skyrim more looks like a Nordic Kingdom using a foreign military for its war of succession.
night ember
The issue was it was neither of them (never mind lazy never works with game dev)...
I mean creatively lazy, obviously game dev is grueling. If that was the only issue I wouldn't use such an uncharitable term but the writing in this game is just so dumb thematically, prose-wise like anything.
I largely agree with your thoughts on the other plotlines, but I do think the "generic divines" can and are supposed to be quite interesting as a synthesis of the elven and nordic ones, made by a conquering empire as a compromise between the people it ruled. This is all subject matter that has been collecting dust since morrowind but in terms of the overall elder scrolls story of people discovering love in a dream I'd say this development would be a crucial element of the original "overarching story". If you're worried about "people getting confused" more than telling a story with meaning then there's no way you can even approach any of that stuff. In that sense I can see why they dropped it, especially to your point about what kind of stuff they'd be able to come up with even with the names intact.
tardy tiger
The problem with the Divines is they barely do anything cultural with it.
Like would you remember that Stendarr is the patron of the Imperial Legion? Not outside of Generic TES3 Imperial Cult priests you wouldn't because no Legionnaire ever meantions him.
night ember
The problem with the Divines is they barely do anything cultural with it.
Like ...
it's hilarious that bethesda seems to feel like its been "stuck" with the greatest lore of any fantasy universe and so has to constantly negotiate between that and the desire to be as boring as possible. Whoops sorry "accessible". Watch the next elder scrolls reveal all the religion is fake and they're just a planet in the starfield universe.
feral viper
Eeeh... I wouldn't say it's the greatest.
More and more, I wouldn't even put it in the top 10.
It certainly had the potential, for awhile there. But since Oblivion it's just...
Ashan, Enroth, Faerun, Thra, Mallus, Nevenddar, Arda, Rivellon, Kenshi, at LEAST, are better.
And I could throw a few more worlds in there as well.
night ember
It certainly had the potential, for awhile there. But since Oblivion it's just.....
most of those I dont know but you are out of your mind with faerun lol, total gen x hodgepodge of slop. like one step removed from azeroth
you can see the 80s trends layered on top of each other, I mean you even have cthulu guys with none of the actual interesting stuff about cthulu. There are some good stories within the world obviously but as a setting it's hilarious
tamriel also mogs arda easily. Doesn't matter that one proceeded the other or else we can just say tolkein owes it to beowulf.
but it's also just very artificial and omnipotent in a way tamriel isn't. I dunno I have never cared about a fantasy setting before but tamriel is like a real place
jade plover
More than hundred messages in half of a day😭
What did i miss again? Can anyone give me a summary please?
jade plover
It also allows you to have carry weight increases have more direct gameplay impa...
What is gameplay impact of being slow? In elder scrolls your movespeed doesn't really matter. Thats why they removed speed progression in skyrim. All it does is making game longer because you just walking to quests for a longer time
jade plover
The main problem with trying to design a system for a few people is that it will...
True
jade plover
This sort of change makes it useful. Now there's a reason to have it, and use it...
Whats the point so slow down an enemy by increasing their weight if you can do the same with frost spells that also deal damage
nimble pond
One thing I did notice. Everyone is the same body build. Never ever see a fat bandit or guard (and yeah, if they running at me at the same speed as a more athletic built, then that is super sus, lol. Unless by using magic or some potion to make themselves move faster). I'm think all the same heights too? Unless it's a riekling or something. It's not that big a deal, but some variant would be nice in that aspect. Guards be looking like clones, lol.
dim reef
Heights have differences between races but body weight is mostly the same i think
I think i have seen some noticeably taller nords but idk if that's a bug or genuine feature
FO4 has the opposite problem. Body weights have differences but everyone's the exact same height
vagrant aurora
Day 3 of things I'd like to see in The Elder Scrolls 6.
Digging: can dig almost anywhere and have a percentage chance at finding something(depending on luck?) but certain things have designated spots where they are buried. Why have shovels if you can't dig? And i'm not talking about minecraft levels of digging. Things to dig for: treasure boxes/chests/bags, graves/bones, creatures, water, oil, gems, precious metals, roots of trees/shrubs, plant bulbs, underground passageways, relics, coins, gear, weapons, etc. Maybe your dog companion could help you sniff things out or you could cast magic or have a magic device that could help locate items. Sometimes you'd dig and an enemy would pop up instead of an item. Maybe you can dig and bury things too, bones for your dog, bodies, seeds, paths for water to follow, etc.
feral viper
What is gameplay impact of being slow? In elder scrolls your movespeed doesn't r...
Mitigating lootgoblin behaviour without outright restricting it.
Variation in combat.
Ability to create interesting new environmental and movement challenges.
Ability to make Strength and Endurance type bonuses more impactful.
feral viper
Whats the point so slow down an enemy by increasing their weight if you can do t...
Because sometimes you don't want to kill something?
Because sometimes slowing isn't enough?
Because Weight Mechanics can interact in other ways than just enemies?
jade plover
Because sometimes you don't want to kill something?
Because sometimes slowing ...
When you don't want to kill enemies, but prefer to slow them down?
Yes slowing isn't enough that's why i said frost spells make burden spells useless, because they do more
How you can use encumberence or burden on something that is not an enemy?
jade plover
Mitigating lootgoblin behaviour without outright restricting it.
Variation in ...
Whats is the purpose to mitigate lootgobling behaviour if this is what players like to do. Its is a restriction for tgr sakr of restrictions
How does movespeed change the combat in elder scrolls? You kill enemies from afar with bow and magic or just tank them with melee combat. You don't have to run after or from someone
Im not sure if i understand what do you mean by movement challeges. You mean things like in death stranding?
Yes Strenght and Endurance would be more usefull, but only if they return it as stats
jade plover
Day 3 of things I'd like to see in The Elder Scrolls 6.
Digging: can dig almost...
So you want archaeology from eso?
vagrant aurora
So you want archaeology from eso?
Forgive me, I have only played a few hours of ESO so I didn't experience archeology.
feral viper
When you don't want to kill enemies, but prefer to slow them down?
Yes slowing ...
Frost spells kill.
Object weight modifiers.
jade plover
Frost spells kill.
Object weight modifiers.
Okay, and how different weight of objects can be used in a game?
feral viper
Though I will add, I think the slow on Frost Spells is stupid. If cold is slowing you down, you're already dead.
jade plover
Well, elemental magic must have additional effects, otherwise its pointless to have different elements
pulsar root
Its thematic frost slows which other RPGS have adopted(I can't spell gud). Fire and Lightning would be dots.
feral viper
I agree it's a trope, it's just a bad trope.
Fire does damage over time. Frost drains stamina. Shock drains Magicka.
Except for some reason Frost gets an extra effect that the others don't, because Trope.
feral viper
Okay, and how different weight of objects can be used in a game?
Levers, pulleys, moving objects, changing pressure plates, lifting gates, making things float in water, etc.
Hell, a holistic approach to weight could basically replace Levitation as a direct effect.
Wind would be more of a slow effect, as it's actively fighting against you.
Frost would only impede movement if it's creating a physical barrier. But because of silly Gygaxisms, we treat it like a slow because Trope.
Now, cold WILL tire you out faster, so the stamina drain makes sense.
noble verge
At least one. Given Richtons position there's bound to be more. Lore scale IC pr...
The problem is that Richton's airship wasn't an Imperial creation, it was a Dwemer one, hence why there's airship schematics in TES III with the image of the Redguard airship on them.
tardy tiger
The problem is that Richton's airship wasn't an Imperial creation, it was a Dwem...
Almost like the Imperials were making them. And that they were giving them either to Generals and Admirals or Governors.
noble verge
Is there any actual evidence in text or dialogue for the Empire building them? The schematics aren't in Imperial hands, they're collecting dust in a ruin that wasn't unsealed until shortly before TES III began.
tardy tiger
That's kinda the issue though.
They pretty much had to other wise it would be very odd if they just found an intact Dwemer airship and just gave it to some random dude as they had to know how to maintain it if they were going to give it to important Goverment or Military people. Though this is before TES4 chose to destroy Cyrodiil that is.
Tiber Septim if I recall was made into being rather into Dwemer stuff given what the Numidium was retconned into (it wasn't a Dwemer creation in TES2 but something the Underking did). And they did get the Numidium working. The Orrery in the Imperial City is also a Dwemer creation and they have it working.
noble verge
I think it's most plausible they found the airship and got it working again. Outside of Sotha Sil and Yagrum Bagarn, I don't think anyone else alive at the time had the knowledge to build the Dwemer's crazier tech from scratch.
Kagrenac had already nearly completed Numidium, the only component missing was the power source.
dim reef
What about the random dwemer ghost in Mournhold? He's kinda alive
Is he still there even after Red Mountain?
Actually now that i think about it. How was he unaffected by the Dwemers' dissapearance? Does it not effect spirits?
noble verge
Perhaps he and the other Dwemer ghosts died before the race disappeared.
dim reef
So any Dwemer that's in spirit form possibly didn't dissapear?
feral viper
TES plays fast and loose with souls in general. It outright states that they don't understand them, and they do weird things.
modest terrace
I wonder how es6 crafting system will go. Will it be like skyrim where you make a weapon or armor from a spesific style like glasss or hide and use a bench to upgrade its tier. Or a combo of that and stuff from their newer games and allow you to add modifiers.
nimble pond
Day 3 of things I'd like to see in The Elder Scrolls 6.
Digging: can dig almost...
I'd like digging up fossils. Finding different parts to put together and then bring it back to life from extinction as a unique pet/companion.
modest terrace
I'd like digging up fossils. Finding different parts to put together and then br...
That would be cool. But you would need a high magic skill with a spsific necromancer spell or ritual. You could bring the skeleton back to life.
feral viper
I wonder how es6 crafting system will go. Will it be like skyrim where you make ...
Given that Fallout and Starfield use basically the same system, just different gating techniques, I expect something similar there.
Which... Makes no sense, because that's not how any sort of medieval fantasy equipment is made, but...
modest terrace
Which... Makes no sense, because that's not how any sort of medieval fantasy equ...
So long as they dont add in the affects system. We should be fine.
If they do what would be the point of enchanting.
feral viper
I wouldn't get your hopes up on that one.
feral viper
I'd like digging up fossils. Finding different parts to put together and then br...
Now, see... I am torn regarding things like archaeology and paleontology
Because both are close to my heart, and I am actually professionally trained in one of them.
And I would LOVE to see more of them in games ...
But at the same time, they almost always get it wrong, and actively hurt the perception of them
And if it ends up meaning more Hancock's and Corsetti's ...
It's better to not include them at all.
nimble pond
Oh ik. But it's a fantasy game, may not at all be realistic but still fun! But i get it can mess with your head when it's like your real life job and to see it inaccurate in a game, I get that
pulsar root
Its a Fantasy world with different fauna, fungi and other lifeforms with different metals and creatures. Normal physics, "science" doesn't apply unless Bethesda wants it to be.
feral viper
Oh ik. But it's a fantasy game, may not at all be realistic but still fun! But i...
I know, it's more of a personal bias due to my loathing hatred of pseudoscience influencers.
feral viper
Oh ik. But it's a fantasy game, may not at all be realistic but still fun! But i...
I know, it's more of a personal bias due to my loathing hatred of pseudoscience influencers.
nimble pond
Oh man, as bogus as it all is, I absolutely adore and have so much fun with astrology, all the mystical arts. I'm sorry lol, it's just entertaining for me
feral viper
I'll admit, Ancient Aliens is a guilty pleasure for me.
Sometimes I just feel the need to be angry. And that show always delivers.
It's like, whenever I feel the need to cry, I put on The Final Solution by Sabaton.
It's my metric for reminding myself that I still have the emotional range needed to be a good person.
They are my two emotional whiplash mechanisms..
nimble pond
Oh I'm a terrible person, ahahaha 🤣
Anyhow, Chakram would be a nice new addition to hybrid (close range and long) weapon choice. And I'd be down for duel Sais replacing duel daggers.
nimble pond
Slap a fire enchant on it and you have ring of fire
https://64.media.tumblr.com/c0074c974379fbe0dcd80dbf35be8b2c/2ef10e7165a17c2b-6f/s500x750/82ca54b570ee108805b244c9b85c32f910f8a7a9.gif
eager remnant
Anyhow, Chakram would be a nice new addition to hybrid (close range and long) we...
Have you played Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning? There are Chakrams in that game. I thought they were great fun.
digital bison
Does ESO/ZOS have it's own discord?
eager remnant
Does ESO/ZOS have it's own discord?
There is an ESO Discord (you can find it in #official-sites ) but it mainly serves as a clearinghouse for developer announcements. If you wish to post or read posts about the game you need to visit their forums. You can find them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en
digital bison
There is an ESO Discord (you can find it in <#784555538335137812> ) but it mainl...
That's exactly what I needed, for service updates and other announcments. Thanks so much!
vagrant aurora
Day 4 of things I'd like to see in the Elder Scrolls 6.
Pets with backstories and quests. Doghouses outside of houses. Dogs react to passersby and other critters. Can affect relationships with pets depending on how you feed/pet/brush/play/teach/punish/hunt with them. Pets react with enemies and can help in battle. Pets can have commands and certain unique abilities depending on the pet: dogs can dig and catch scallops critters or carry a lantern in its mouth, birds can scout and bring Scrolls, frogs can catch bugs, cats can see in the dark and enter small spaces, etc. Certain pets can be equipped with pet gear.
jade plover
Day 4 of things I'd like to see in the Elder Scrolls 6.
Pets with backstories a...
So you want dog from fallout 4 but with tamagochi mechanics?
vagrant aurora
I only played about the first hour of Fallout 4 so I didn't get to see how the dog works. But im talking about more pets than just a dog.
dim reef
Skyrim's CC adds a bunch of pets
There's rabbits, skeevers, elytras
Tho they're not that advanced. Just simple followers
feral viper
Day 4 of things I'd like to see in the Elder Scrolls 6.
Pets with backstories a...
Have you been reading my rambling notes? Because that's basically the Husbandry skill I scribbled..
Of course, I did so in an effort to try and keep equal numbers of skills across paradigms, and was struggling to figure out more Warrior skills...
jade plover
Of course, I did so in an effort to try and keep equal numbers of skills across ...
Do you think a warrior skill tree needs husbandry skills?
feral viper
No. Not at all.
But my effort was to make sure all three Paradigms had equal numbers of skills, and while Thief and Mage had more expansive options, Warrior kinda... Did not
So I was grasping at straws.
For instance...
Mage: Destruction, Illusion, Alteration, Restoration, Mysticism, Necromancy, Enchanting.
Thief; Marksman, Sneak, Speech, Thievery, Disguise, Forgery, Alchemy
Warrior: 1 Handed, 2 Handed, Armour, Athletics, Hand-to-Hand, Craftsmanship.
As you can see, there's one less in Warrior. And I was at the time struggling to fill it.
livid ingot
I agree, critically lacking skills. Split 1-Handed into Self-Defense and Shield Tactics, Split 2-Handed into Dueling and Assault Tactics.
vagrant aurora
Have you been reading my rambling notes? Because that's basically the Husbandry ...
No, I joined this group 4 days ago so I haven't read anything before that.
noble verge
Tho they're not that advanced. Just simple followers
The goat is the GOAT in survival. It also breaks the Cidhna Mine quest because it lets you smuggle stuff in.
The Dremora from the one Black Book also breaks the quest but if you manage to read a Black Book, you deserve to be able to break the rules.
dim reef
I had the Auri follower mod with me last playthrough and she completely broke Cidhna mine by spawning in and killing everyone before i could do anything 😭
It took me a solid couple minutes to figure out what was going on
Cidhna mine in general seems easily broken by any additions. Mods or Creation
feral viper
No, I joined this group 4 days ago so I haven't read anything before that.
It's ok, I was more just joking. I don't think I've actually mentioned it since the Forum days.
feral viper
I agree, critically lacking skills. Split 1-Handed into Self-Defense and Shield ...
My general thought process was on the mechanical division of gameplay there.
1 Handed and 2 Handed are very clear mechanically divided activities that make it clear what skill is being used.
Within those broad, activity-driven categories, you can further use Perks to create subdivisions, of course.
pure kite
Odd question, does anyone have any advice on how to make an argonian name in Jel?
feral viper
Not an odd question at all. The UESP has a pretty comprehensive name list and some explanation for how they are structured that may help.
pure kite
Not an odd question at all. The UESP has a pretty comprehensive name list and so...
It is definitely helping, thanks 👍
nimble pond
What if the next player character in the upcoming TESVI, has a twin? And ofc, is a antagonist to us and all that our character does.
Furthermore, I wonder if there is any loose/unclear/unverified ancestry between all the player characters thus far, that'd be kinda cool in lore.
pulsar root
no, and no.
dim reef
I do hope there's a family member that actually stays alive for more than 10 minutes
But I definitely don't want them to be an antagonist.
Let them just be a companion
feral viper
Furthermore, I wonder if there is any loose/unclear/unverified ancestry between ...
There like the villains turned heroes in DBZ. They all secretly want to fight eachother, but have constant other things to deal with.
pure kite
What if the next player character in the upcoming TESVI, has a twin? And ofc, is...
Not a bad idea, tbh I'm hoping that TESVI is about the dwemer and the second great war
midnight stag
In es6 I hope they have a good permanent followers system with maybe getting a perk status from the followers
jade plover
As you can see, there's one less in Warrior. And I was at the time struggling to...
You forgot a block skill
jade plover
What if the next player character in the upcoming TESVI, has a twin? And ofc, is...
Isn't it lierally a plot twist from starfield?
nimble pond
Oh, I don't know about that..
I always took you for more of a transylvania twist bloke
dim reef
Huh? Starfield has a twin?
jade plover
Huh? Starfield has a twin?
Not a twin, but your character from another universe, wich is kind of the same thing
dim reef
That's not really a twin tho. It's more akin to an evil clone of you
vagrant aurora
What id like to see in TES6 day 5.
I'd like underwater exploration and the ability to use certain weapons and magic in water against some unique enemies/battles. Explore the sunken continent of Yokuda, IF, indeed, TES6 happens to be about Hammerfell and the Redguard and Sword singing.
dim reef
Starfield completely gutted underwater swimming all together. I think they're not quite focused on watery stuff that much anymore
nimble pond
Starfield completely gutted underwater swimming all together. I think they're no...
Skyrim saw some more detail to it and there was significant improvement on water exploration in F4.
In Starfield, there's alot of possibilities as to why, ..perhaps they wanted to focus more on space itself, whereas underwater exploration can kinda be it's own lil world of space when properly filled. And let's not forget just how delayed Starfield ending up being and how there were still some things that didn't get added. Suddenly throwing in great water exploration detail on top of everything else and it would have been delayed even longer or possibly even crash on the consoles idk, lol. There is also still time for a deep-space underwater DLC too.
So perhaps they were just saving more exploration of it for TES, as out of the three franchises.. I think it would fit best in TES.
nimble pond
What id like to see in TES6 day 5.
I'd like underwater exploration and the abil...
Speaking of days.. weeks.. months.. and possibly years..(since they go so quickly in-game already), more calendar-unique events!!
feral viper
You forgot a block skill
I'm actually more and more inclined to roll block into 1 Handed
nimble pond
I concur. Having block as it's own skill.. idk don't feel right.
dim reef
I'd say let the normal shield block be a one handed skill but let sword parry/block be a separate thing cos that requires separate knowledge
pure kite
@feral viper thanks again for the link, I think I'm close to getting a jel name, I'm thinking about calling him Zurith
vagrant aurora
Speaking of days.. weeks.. months.. and possibly years..(since they go so quickl...
Since you mentioned it, this was actually on my list of things i want in the next Elder Scrolls.
Events/activities that revolve around certain weather/dates/times. Flora and fauna that react and change with the seasons. NPCs react to weather better(kids will play boats in the rain, and try to eat snowflakes, adults will close windows in their homes when it rains/snows and light fires to stay warm and smash or burn fingers, basements can flood, fish can be left on land after rising tides and could cross into other bodies of water, mixing up wildlife.
nimble pond
I'd say let the normal shield block be a one handed skill but let sword parry/bl...
Instead of making separate skill trees for every subject, make branches in the same main skill tree.
dim reef
Could work. Make shield block and sword block forks of the one handed skill
nimble pond
Yes, forks, branches.
And then all the smaller twigs (perks) that detail and fill out that branch.
jade plover
Skyrim saw some more detail to it and there was significant improvement on water...
Disagree, in f4 they just filled all lakes and rivers with heaps of trash because of the setting. I dont think its an improvment. Fallout for some reason doesn't have any underwater life even though you can find dead dolphin mutants on shores
feral viper
Instead of making separate skill trees for every subject, make branches in the ...
This is my approach as well.
Mostly because, otherwise Blocking becomes a very one dimensional Skill. It's a single activity you engage in, has very little room for specialisation of refinement, and basically always preforms the same way for every character all the time.
And this is something I've tried to avoid in my own musings. If a Skill has less than 3 distinct approaches and activities that it can be used for... It doesn't deserve to be a Skill. It's better suited as a Perk Line..
Athletics and Acrobatics are my go-to examples here.
There's no reason for them to be seperate skills. Acrobatics is a subset of Athletics, just the same as Swimming, Climbing, Running, etc.
jade plover
This is my approach as well.
Mostly because, otherwise Blocking becomes a very...
What do you mean? In skyrim every skill performs in the same way every time. Only 3 exceptions: destruction, one and two handed weapon where you can choose element and type of weapon. In other skill trees you need all points so its the same every time
feral viper
What do you mean? In skyrim every skill performs in the same way every time. Onl...
Yes, and I think for the most part, Skyrim's Skills and their Perk Trees are pretty poor.
As usual, Bethesda stumbled into brilliance, and then largely failed to capitalise on it.
The exceptions are what show the potential, and they are the ethos I lean on in my own exploration of RPGs and how to improve them
jade plover
Do you make mods?
feral viper
Not anymore. Haven't since early Oblivion.
jade plover
Why not? You want to change so much in skyrim
feral viper
Well, because I listened to my parents when they said it wasn't worthwhile to pursue game design, and to get a real education instead.
And that largely killed my drive to actually MAKE anything regarding it.
So now, I largely just write, and muse.
jade plover
Since you are already educated you can return to mods making
feral viper
I did try, recently. Ended up landing the role as head writer on a Starfield mod project, until Bethesda's increasingly abandonware approach to the game dried up all interest in it.
I may get around to leaning how the new tools and systems work, and try my hand at it again in the future.
noble verge
Since you mentioned it, this was actually on my list of things i want in the nex...
IN TES III it's mentioned that the foyadas are kept clear of brush by periodic lava flows. It would be so cool to see a dynamic Morrowind where the volcano occasionally erupts and fills the foyadas with lava.
vagrant aurora
IN TES III it's mentioned that the foyadas are kept clear of brush by periodic l...
That would be awesome
feral viper
The main issue I'd see is that... Well... Lava flows don't work like rivers.
Any channel would very quickly fill up with cooking lava over only a few flows, resulting in the flow redirecting somewhere else.
If it was regular enough to keep down brush, it would be enough to fill the foyodas and largely level out the environment.
trail dust
just use gamelogic, as long as its not jarring, its fine
feral viper
There is only one kind of logic, and I refuse to abandon it!
Unless I am given pie. I can convinced for the sake of pie.
You can justify anything with pie... Typically blueberry, but I'll also accept apple, so long as it comes with a nice slice of old, sharp cheddar.
pulsar root
You can but Fantasy worlds don't have to always be grounded. I mean a massive meteor being held up by power in Morrowind is......not logical at least by real world physics xD
feral viper
I dunno... Over 70% of the world believes in magic, so...
It's a... Wait for it... MAGICAL catch all explanation for whatever you want it for.
I'm being sarcastic. Magic of that sort is just silly, lazy, and a waste of writing power.
noble verge
The main issue I'd see is that... Well... Lava flows don't work like rivers.
To be fair, this is a world where lava forms mineral deposits stronger than steel.
Stuff is weird in TES
feral viper
Yeah, I'm being deliberately facetious.
In any realistic sense, most of Morrowind's insectoid wildlife would be crushed under it's one weight.
Though, speaking of Ebony... I did once have a thesis on how the different metals were all actually god-blood, not just Ebony..
Entirely unrelated... @eager remnant you know who I suddenly missed today? Dargor.
I always forget to include them in the names I reminisce about, and that's unfortunate.
nimble pond
Shoulder-mounted, hands-free (single or duel) firing crossbows (or simply sharp-pointed blade projectiles, for assassins and stealth) anyone?
You're probably thinking of Predator after reading this and now seeking a snappy gif..
Ngl, shoulder-mounted, hands-free firing magic cannons would be kinda cool too. Or at least "underwrist gauntlets" so you can literally sling your axe and fire magic all from the same hand at one time. Could even load the gauntlets with multi-spell combination shot charges or just have multiple barrels in the gauntlet for loading whatever you want into it. No mana drain, just insta-shot charges or a separate charging system for the gauntlet itself.
Oh yea, and just added this idea, but they would not only be able to fire magic, but you can also load them with poison payloads or shot charges (depending on how you cooked it in alchemy, like if it comes out as a close-range mist or long-rangle projectile). Beneficial effects too, like if you want to put healing in your left-hand gauntlet or any of the available barrels on a gauntlet and fire at a companion.
Perhaps even crafting some payloads or shot charges that are a combination of magic and alchemy combined. Crossing that line.
Can even apply it to shoot weapons you'd typically throw, small blades or stars.
vagrant aurora
Does anybody remember the game Two Worlds Two? Before the game released they used to put out these (weekly?) Newsletters or updates called Antaloor posts. These shared stories of the game world and things you could do in game. Every new post fed my starving hype for the game and i hope Bethesda does something like this for TES6
livid ingot
Does anybody remember the game Two Worlds Two? Before the game released they use...
I played TW2. Wasn't around for release, I think I found the game in a bargain bin or something.
I advocated on here before for TES to draw inspiration for its spell-making mechanic from Two Worlds 2
The hands-on experimental nature of the TW2 system would go far to fix the "spreadsheet-y" issue Todd sees with the Oblivion and earlier games
feral viper
Somewhat ironically, one of my favourite games is almost entirely spredsheet-y....
But Master of Orion 3 is a radically different sort of game.
That said, my personal favourite magic system is Magicka. But it is again, something that... Doesn't really fit with how TES functions.
Neither does my second favourite, Black and White..
raven helm
Does any of the older elder scrolls games use physx32?
feral viper
I know reality uses Physics1.0.
I hear in the 1.01 patch, they're going to round π to 3.
Personally, I think they should just dump the Weak Force. It's so undertuned it's basically useless.
primal olive
Bethesda I and begthesdaing you for playable snow elves I need new lore so bad
I gotta draw more of them
midnight stag
Shoulder-mounted, hands-free (single or duel) firing crossbows (or simply sharp-...
You know that is really good logic from something akin to the mechanics dlc in fo4 I think they should bring back a new mechanized customization permanent companion for all your needs good ideas
primal olive
it's probably gonna have a basic melee/bow/magic system with powers like Skyrim and starfield
night ember
I should be able to make a thalmor ear necklace vietnam war style in tes6
vagrant aurora
Day 6 of "What I'd like to see in TES6"
Be able to choose different voices for your characters depending on the race/sex/age, and be able to have a fully voiced character for those who want to try a playthrough in that way, and turn it off for those who don’t want it.
The ability to have NPCs(or a dedicated NPC) read books to you. Or have your character read them aloud and be able to change the read speed. Your character may comment on the content of a book, a sign, or a poster they read.
Your character will comment on the weather, the night sky, nearby enemies/loot/points of interest. They’ll comment on activities like alchemy, smithy, sailing(hopefully), etc. Your character may mumble something about other NPCs like their appearance, their actions, or their overall feelings towards that NPC. They may comment on the condition of certain weapons, armor pieces if they need repair, or missing armor pieces/weapons that would work better for their build. They may comment about wounds/health, magicka when low/replenished, or casting spells, or fatigue, or encumbrance.
Different sounds/comments when traversing different landscapes, climbing, lunging over a fence, sneaking, gliding, etc. You sound drunk after too much skooma. They may randomly strike up a small conversation with their follower or pet. They may talk smack to enemies while in battle and celebrate when victorious or when they flee, loot, or pickpocket an enemy.
All of this, to me, feels like it would be much more immersive than just complete silence from my character, other than only making sounds when they jump, take damage, or swing a weapon.
dim reef
I really don't think they'll ever attempt a voiced protagonist ever again after FO4
As much as i loved the voices there, I've made my peace with that fact. It ain't happening
vagrant aurora
I didn't play much Fallout 4 so i'm not familiar with how detailed the voiced protagonist was. However, in TES 6 it would be nice to have the option. Maybe you could even enable/disable certain parts of dialogue: want all the grunts and comments? Enabled. Dont want your character to read every line of dialogue you choose in conversation? Disabled. I, personally, would like to have a playthrough with the option to have it all enabled.
eager remnant
Day 6 of "What I'd like to see in TES6"
Be able to choose different voices for ...
Leaving aside the idea that it impedes roleplaying (which to me is the most serious objection), a voiced protagonist would be a massive undertaking. Currently there are ten playable races and two sexes. This means every line of dialogue spoken by the protagonist would have to be recorded 20 times. It has been estimated that Fallout 4 contains 13,000 lines of protagonist dialogue. Starfield has more than twice the total number of dialogue lines (250,000 vs 111,000), so, given the growing amount of dialogue in each game Bethesda releases, it is a safe assumption that that TES6 will have more than Fallout 4's 13,000 lines. Unless they cut down on the number of playable races in TES6, the time and money this would cost would be astonomical.
dim reef
It's doable. Bethesda has the budget for it but it's extremely unlikely they'll ever attempt a voiced protagonist ever again
Like i said. I loved the voices in FO4 but I've made peace with the fact that they'll never try it again
slow loom
It's more likely it would just be two voices with filters over them and the ability to pitch tone. That's if they do a voiced protagonist at all. I'm not saying it's a good idea, just that its the only way they could do it realistically.
dim reef
It's the cheaper alternative definitely if they do attempt that
They could go for a Star Wars The Old Republic approach and have like a dozen vas voicing different main characters but that's even more unlikely.
If the cheaper way has a 1% chance of happening, this one has -50%
feral viper
I'm in the same vein as Pseron. There a lot of just... Fundamental issues with characterisation that voiced PCs bring, regardless of how they are approached.
For a game with more set-identity characters, like BioWare's games or even Fallout to a degree (as much as people love to claim otherwise) it's less of a problem, it for truely open character games like TES... it's just more problems than benefits.
night ember
I feel like you reading the line in your head is you saying it, has worked perfectly fine for 30 years.
pulsar root
Marshkie got a point. But sort of yeah established chars with a voice actor makes more sense then something deeply RPGesque like TES... no voice is the safe option).
dim reef
I think future TES characters need more personality anyway be it player defined or preset.
The old dialogue system is unbearably neutral. Barely any sarcasm, wit or humor
Give me more humorous dialogue choices. Something i can laugh about
feral viper
Everyone knows humour wasn't invented until the 1870s. So there is no comedy in a medieval context.
vagrant aurora
Baldur's Gate 3 provides players with eight distinct voices for the custom player character to choose from during character creation, allowing for a choice between four male and four female options. Additionally, there are several origin characters who can be played as the main protagonist, each with their own unique, fully-voiced dialogue and specific character lines.
I'm not saying Bethesda needs to follow this route, or even have every dialogue option be fully voiced. But, I would for sure like to have a character that at the very minimum comments on the random interactions with NPC's, the world, and self status.
I don't want them to take the "safe" route. They should be bold and try something. Bethesda likes to say "yes" to the player as much as possible.
Player 1: Can my character be voiced?
Todd: Yes
Player 2: Can I turn that off?
Todd: Yes
Players: YAY!
dim reef
Baldur's Gate 3 provides players with eight distinct voices for the custom playe...
That stuff we already have.
Each race in Skyrim have different vas for their shouts and combat grunts.
vagrant aurora
Furthermore, I know how people feel about A.I. but what if there are several voice actors who agree to allow their voices to be used in voice-generated content within the game? If Bethesda can figure out a good way to have A.I.-voiced NPCs to stay on subject, within the bounds of the lore, have unique programmed personalities, and be reactive at the correct moments, then no two players would have the exact same experience, making everyones gameplay more unique. Of course, I'm talking about A.I. voices that are reactionary to the world, NPC's, and self status, NOT dialogue options and NOT story related. It would be more like when your player walks up to a big cliff, the A.I. voice kicks in and says "thats a looooong way down, better watch my step." Or, you're walking down a dirt path and you're all bloodied up, a guard on his horse trots past and says to you (based on your condition, and the personality of the guard) "Get yourself cleaned up you scumbag" (for a stern guard) or "if you need aid, follow this path north and take a right at the well, theres some (insert alchemical ingredient) right next to it, that should help." That would be an example of a nice guard, and based on your current location, the guard could give directions. I think A.I. would make interactions like this much easier to pull off.
dim reef
Nope. No AI. Keep that as far away as possible
They have enough budget to voice hundreds upon thousands of dialogue for reactions. No need for AI generation there.
vagrant aurora
Nope. No AI. Keep that as far away as possible
You didnt even have time to read my whole message before you dismissed it.
dim reef
I did and i disagree
We have more than enough budget for thousands of unique reaction dialogues without needing any AI
In fact they already do this in regards to the companions.
Bethesda's companions since FO4 are by far some of the most reactive companions in rpgs.
They have situation related reactions for pretty much everything be it taking chems, taking fall damage, getting crippled, reading magazines, overencumbered etc.
It's entirely radiant and can trigger anytime based on what you're doing
vagrant aurora
But how would a guard be able to give you directions from anywhere on the map at any time without A.I.? Its impossible to do that sort of thing without A.I. and thats just for that one interaction. There can be many example where only A.I. would make this possible. It doesn't have to just be for radiant quests.
dim reef
They can simply be given way points to all nearby locations they can spell out.
Morrowind did exactly this
vagrant aurora
I have issues with A.I., too. However, I think that in certain cases, it could really surprise and delight if done carefully.
dim reef
Except what you're suggesting has already been achieved by normal methods so AI really isn't adding anything
Direction based dialogue for example is something Morrowind did nearly 20 years ago.
Granted some of the Directions made no sense but that can be improved
vagrant aurora
Like i said, I'm sure there are many options that A.I. can be utilized for with voiced interactions that aren't related to direction-based dialogue. But, with the millions of things that can be said in certain interactions, there just isn't enough time, money, or frankly, memory to do what A.I. could coin up in an instant.
feral viper
I am very pro AI in concept. But the execution is... Well...
Like most things Capitalism ruins every good idea.
vagrant aurora
@dim reef That was a good discussion. There aren't many people at work, home, or friends who care to talk about The Elder Scrolls so I'm happy to find good discussion here, even if we don't agree. Thank you
feral viper
Unrelated... Relapsed into Graveyard Keeper.
And now I want this in TES...
Though, only if it has a donkey that make more regular corpse deliveries ....
The Donkey Union must be ok strike or something
primal olive
Everyone knows humour wasn't invented until the 1870s. So there is no comedy in ...
ironically this is false
the jester event in ESO + snow elves possibly learning humor from the Atmorans during friendly relations as suggested by dialogue
slow loom
The real question at the end of the day about TES6 is if it's going to be a budget AAA game or a quality one. If Baldur's Gate 3 is a quality AAA game then I would estimate TES6 will be 50-75% the quality of BG3. You have to want to make a good game, not just another product to keep the profit wheel turning. You also need to hire talent as hiring interns only gets you so far.
You just aren't going to wow players with a 3-4 year dev cycle and a shoestring 200-300 million budget. You really need closer to 5+ years and 400-500 million these days.
primal olive
The real question at the end of the day about TES6 is if it's going to be a budg...
all I know is the physics engine is gonna be so good
if Bethesda ever made a pure physics engine game fans would eat it up I think
night ember
letting me sell the dragon scroll and then have to go back for it in dawnguard is awesome, especially the extra option if you're already arch mage. More of that in tes6 please, not major quest decisions but just reminders that the world is a real place
nimble pond
Day 6 of "What I'd like to see in TES6"
Be able to choose different voices for ...
Only way I'd want that is with being able to transfer my own voice or even any celebrity voices I want for fun, into the character. But last time I brought that up, was told there'd be legal issues with that, so much for that idea.
Only other thing I'd go for is a voice creation system where you can fine-tune a voice (accent, pitch, tone, etc.), similar to how you create your character in the beginning of the game.
But frankly, the voice thing is just not a priority interest for me. I can already hear my character's voice in my head when I play. With them talking with a voice I didn't pick or create, it just breaks the immersion for me.
nimble pond
Like most things Capitalism ruins every good idea.
Humans in general can and do ruin alot of things thru different tools.
But I'm going off-topic
nimble pond
<@456226577798135808> That was a good discussion. There aren't many people at wo...
Perhaps you'd enjoy just a few quests that involve debate, presented over some highly complicated arguments. Having some that are political and some more localized.
Having wildly different outcomes based on how you do
Perhaps even be the deciding factor in some court cases that are more barbaric, just like in the medival times. With a manner of life or death and harsh/cruel punishments and superstitious accusations.
Which that leads to another thing. Having more of a sense of community. We all hate jury duty, well most of us.
Small things like being able to be involved in a town (or at the "province-level" of governship) court case or construction plans (should a building of tradition be destroyed and replaced with something more modern, etc.) And having the choice to get involved in these community activities or not, at any time. Even going out of your way to build things to help a community. Which the townsfolk would probably appreciate and give you discounts at their stores or other rewards. Because there's some things where it's fun to be the deciding factor or authority on the subject and then other things where you're simply involved and participating with others.
vagrant aurora
Day 7 of "Things I'd like to see in TES6"
More unique weapons such as throwing stars, harpoons, slingshots, blow darts, whips, wands, the ability to throw objects from the world (enemies that can catch and throw back/dodge objects), the ability to touch your weapon or arrow to fire or other surfaces to enhance it temporarily. Bows have many more types of arrows with unique effects. Short-range Black powder weapons, like a blunderbuss pistol, have the ability to make a line of black powder or an oil spill and light it to explode a barrel of oil or start other objects on fire. NPCs that try to stop it. Sand can be thrown at enemies to blind them. Are weapons much more varied like finding guns in borderlands or weapons in diablo, instead of every Steel sword you find having the exact same stats(which gets old after the 3rd time you find a duplicate weapon, the excitement is immediately over), furthermore, if weapons have random stats and abilities, could all of these be used at a weapons creation station? The ability to throw your weapon.
This isn't me saying "I want TES6 with guns". Thinking on the idea of people wanting shipbuilding and naval combat in TES6. If, indeed, it takes place in Hammerfell and/or Highrock, would naval combat include cannons? Cannons use black powder, unless their naval combat uses different weapons, which they may. Let's say, for argument's sake, that they do include black powder cannons on the ships, and that you can become a pirate or fight pirates. It seems likely that more black powder weapons would be included. I'm for "early times" black powder weapons being in the game, nothing modern. Is there a war over black powder that's a major or minor part of the story? (Forgive me, I'm very ignorant of the lore) I mean, if they choose to have cannons that shoot magic fire missiles instead of black powder cannons, i'm for that too.
nimble pond
You just aren't going to wow players with a 3-4 year dev cycle and a shoestring ...
Idk. I think there's more to it than that. There have been products in the past with alot of money and time pumped into it and it flopped. I think heart and soul of the employees into a product matters alot too. To a point where lack of budget or great lengths of time can be overcome with greatness. If that isn't present, no amount of money or time will make it any better.
nimble pond
letting me sell the dragon scroll and then have to go back for it in dawnguard i...
Yes, and permanent impacts. Passing by a place and remembering how you played a part in what happened there.
dim reef
Dawnguard in general has a lot of vanilla quest related dialogue.
If you have Molag Bal's quest active or completed, you can mention it when Serana talks about him
Or if you're a werewolf there's special dialogue for it with Harkon as well
slow loom
Idk. I think there's more to it than that. There have been products in the past ...
Well yeah there is such thing as pumping money into a sinking ship and nothing will save it. One of the most important things is heart and soul which cannot be bought only earned with trust and respect. While crunch can help, it's not exactly a healthy work environment. While there is no one thing that makes a great game, time and money do help in the right hands.
nimble pond
Some of the simplest things in games are the most underrated. Like the sounds of wind and clapping of leaves.
dim reef
I wish tes VI is filled with massive content as BG3
pulsar root
Its a different game and right now the only expectations we should have is a typical Bethesda game until we get more info(overhyped can lead to pain)
slow loom
I mean besides the obvious that they are different games. It's more an example of what can be achieved in the rpg space with similar sized teams. Hype does often lead to disappointment. That doesn't mean we shouldn't hope for better and hold games to higher standards than we did ten years ago.
dim reef
No matter what. Todd will always smoothtalk everyone into buying it anyway
vagrant aurora
No matter what. Todd will always smoothtalk everyone into buying it anyway
He put all of his points into charisma
vagrant aurora
Since I didn't really play FO4 or Starfield, how has Bethesdas Creation Engine 2.0 been with clipping?
eager remnant
Since I didn't really play FO4 or Starfield, how has Bethesdas Creation Engine 2...
I wouldn't say clipping is an engine issue. Clipping usually happens when artists do not align meshes properly or do not properly account for physics. This can happen with any engine. Like so many other issues commonly attributed to engines, it is often not the engine itself but how the engine is used that creates the problem.
nimble pond
Day 7 of "Things I'd like to see in TES6"
More unique weapons such as throwing ...
It'd be pretty funny if mages were hired as "cannons." Lined up on the side of a ship, firing a row of fireballs simultaneously. Perhaps another mage concentrating on a defensive shield over the ship until it is hit enough times to break the shield.
But I'm not against traditional cannons. I just think, there's an opportunity here to present something more creative and unique using the TES world, when it comes to piracy, to stand out memorably in comparison to all the other sea-faring modes in other games out there. They could still include traditional cannons with it as well.
noble verge
It's not quite clear what weapons they were using, but an East Empire Company ship is able to bombard a pirate stronghold into rubble in TES V.
nimble pond
Well, cannons have been spotted I think in TES: Legends, on one of the cards I think? Idk, someone showed me something about cannons once.
vagrant aurora
A quick Google search tells us:
Yes, black powder and gunpowder are mentioned in The Elder Scrolls lore, primarily in the game The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, where they are used by the Dwemer for a Satchel Charge and by the Redguards in Hammerfell as early cannons on ships. While the technology is underdeveloped and underutilized compared to magic, references in a Daggerfall era joke-book and in the card game The Elder Scrolls: Legends confirm its existence in the lore.
Evidence of Gunpowder in the Lore:
Dwemer Use: The Dwemer were known to use explosives, including a Satchel Charge that utilized gunpowder in their mechanical devices and traps.
Redguard Cannons: The Redguards of Hammerfell have a history of employing cannons on their ships, indicating a presence of gunpowder technology.
The Elder Scrolls: Legends: Gunpowder is depicted on a card in the popular game The Elder Scrolls: Legends, which is considered canon for the Elder Scrolls universe.
Humorous References: A joke-book from the Daggerfall era also references gunpowder, although it's mostly treated as a forgotten or underutilized technology.
However,
Why Gunpowder is Underutilized:
Magic's Prevalence: In a world with powerful magic, such as fireball spells or lightning bolts, the need for primitive gunpowder weapons is diminished.
Focus on Magic and Steam Tech: The Elder Scrolls universe has a strong focus on advanced magic, steam-powered technology, and even mechanical automatons, which eclipse the development of gunpowder-based firearms.
Lore Development: The decision to keep gunpowder technology underdeveloped is largely a narrative choice to maintain the unique "sword and board" fantasy setting of the games.
dim reef
Hold up. Wasn't the dwemer satchel in Morrowind? Why does that say Oblivion?
radiant moss
Hold up. Wasn't the dwemer satchel in Morrowind? Why does that say Oblivion?
yeah, it was in Tribunal. Tribunal also has proximity mines in the Forgotten Sewer that combust upon approach.
dim reef
yeah, it was in Tribunal. Tribunal also has proximity mines in the Forgotten Sew...
Iirc Dawnguard also has "explosive dwemer crossbow bolts"
Edit - okay the location you get it from is radiant so it may or may not be dwemer
Although I'm not sure if that's gunpowder or magic
jade plover
Redguard didnt have cannons, its a myth. We discussed it here earlier
And cannon on one card of legends is a mistake, so you can see it only if you'll search for original arts in the internet. In game it was cut to remove a cannon
But there is one example of guns in TES - in online some dwemer centurions have big cannons installed in their hands
So i doubt that anyone would use it on a regular ship
nimble pond
Did they officially state it was a "mistake" or was it simply cut content? Just looking for clarification, not theory.
Anyway, I'd like some blunt-tipped arrows. For knocking out targets rather than killing all them. I may have some use for experimentation on live subjects.
And allow Alchemy to be used physical gas clouds rather than always being in liquid form.
feral viper
The absence of firearms of any sort is purely an artistic choice. And a bad one at that.
The reality is, there is absolutely no reason why Tamriel wouldn't develop some sort of firearm, and the general technology of the setting should be compatible with full on handgonne and cannon.
Hell, the style of plate armour used commonly in the setting is NEWER than the military adoption for guns.
Especially when you factor in that the general decline in magic is supposed to be because it's NOT that easy or ubiquitous to learn, and that the Mages Guild had served as a public access model for the relatively esoteric craft...
There's no reason for the absence beyond the usual poor worldbuilding that the setting is increasingly leaning on.
dim reef
I'd say it's more they simply never thought about it.
I mean when FO3 came out they mangled the archery from oblivion to act like guns instead of making a brand new system
vagrant aurora
Imagine how fun it would be to have a slingshot in the game that you can shoot low/no damage pebbles or rocks with. The amount of mischief to be had lol. Shooting guards from behind a bush, launching a rock over a wall and hitting someone on the other side. Shooting out windows. Shooting a horse to disturb it and cause it to run away from its stable then follow it into the wilderness and take it as your own. OH THE POSSIBILITIES!
pulsar root
no guns in my TES.
feral viper
I do think that firearms would pose major MECHANICAL problems for TES, and many similar games, of course.
dim reef
Tbf it's not like the games are all the balanced with archery anyway. Might as well add guns to the mix as well
Either that or they could go the KCD2 way and add guns that are so terrible people just stick with archery
feral viper
Conceptually, the advantage of a firearm would be raw stopping power. If you hit something, it's going down, unless it's enormous (like a Giant or Dragon). It doesn't matter if they're in full plate armour, that metal slug is going to rip through them.
Problem is... At their most refined, a muzzle loading gun could take 40-50 seconds to reload. So in the context of TES, you're getting one shot. And if you miss, you're SOL.
Crossbows are the compromise between time, and power. Whereas Bows allow for the highest rate of fire, and reliable accuracy (with training).
So, in terms of rate of fire per minute, you'd be looking at like...
Bow: 7-10
Crossbow: 2-4
Gun: 1
That gun is going to take out whatever it hits (if it hits) but after that, you're swapping to something else. It's not a reliable primary weapon, at least not in the context of a TES adventurer.
dim reef
Irl sure. In TES people tank lightning blasts and do just fine
I'm sure guns wouldn't be much of a stretch
The reload could be a problem but then again you can do some trickery there with the animation like having some auto loading powder system
feral viper
True, I'm more just suggesting how to get past the mechanical issues Guns would bring.
Magic has a whole string of its own problems to begin with, but the raw mechanical superiority of a firearm can be compensated for by simple leaning into historical comparisons.
Early firearms were slower, higher maintenance, and less accurate.
That's why they were typically used either enemasse (such as the Chinese or Ottomans) or as alpha-strike weapons (such as Vlad's rather famous combination of the Handgonne and Bardiche).
Since enemasse isn't an option for an adventure game, using them as basically once-a-fight alpha strike weapons is the more viable solution.
But it also means they're going to be incredibly niche.
dim reef
Speaking of magic why do we even need gunpowder. Can't we just propell solid bullets with magic?
We won't even need to eject casings for that. Just fire the entire bullet
feral viper
That's where competent worldbuilding comes into play.
For a setting where everyone and their mother seems to be anti-magic (Nords, Redguard, Colovians, 3/5 Dunmeri houses, Bosmer and Khajiit to some degree) the fact that no one has ever seemed to try to develop mage-killer weapons is absurd..
dim reef
They probably do, we just haven't heard of them yet. Dawnguard weaponry didn't exist before Skyrim
feral viper
Their weaponry was just Crossbows.
And we had those in Morrowind.
dim reef
In gameplay. In lore they're supposedly better at fighting vampires... somehow
Specifically their weapons. They don't even specify if it's just the crossbow
feral viper
The ever popular Tell, Don't Show...
Overall point is, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to integrate firearms into the setting, in a logical sense.
The bigger issue is mechanically, but even that's not insurmountable. Of course, it would require a bit more thoughtful combat, but that just brings us back to how bad combat is in TES.
dim reef
That's been a problem with magical stuff in general.
Staff of Magnus - Ultra powerful mcguffin.
Gameplay? Absorb 20 magicka
They really need to get better at making a piece of gear not being dissapointing in gameplay after hyping up their lore
feral viper
They want you to have access to all these cool relics, but don't want them to unbalance their gameplay.
Gameplay which is already as balanced as the Titanic at 1:45am.
feral viper
And it's not just a TES problem either, so we can't really blame the melee focused combat. Combat in Starfield is just fully capsized.
So just like... Stop neutering the relics. Either make them deserving of the name, or don't include them.
Though, I think Starfield's combat problems stem from the Legendary Enemy system just being atrocious.
MOAR HPS is not a solution to making combat more challenging, or engaging. And if it's on the table for TES, i...
Frankly, I don't even know if I'm going to be able to play the game long enough to give it a solid critique
The idea of the Legendary Enemies dynamic in a melee focused game make some feel like a cat smelling Durian for the first time
vagrant aurora
For combat id like to see a parry system(some enemy attacks are unblockable), rolls, and deflecting projectiles with shields or blades. Ability to throw objects. A better targeting system. Build the combat around a 3rd-person view with the ability to switch to 1st person. You just can't get certain combat elements while in 1st person, and the animations that you'd see in 3rd person for, say, a jump and flip, or dodge and roll, or spin, slide-n-stab, and many more aren't as easy to pull off in 1st person.
feral viper
The system I have conceptually played with for a number of years is a simple basis that you build layers on to.
You have 2 basic attacks. Thrust and Swing. Controlled by Tap and Hold.
You then have 2 Powers, which can be assigned via a Power Wheel, and include anything from special techniques (Power Attack, Kick, Disarming Strike) to Verbal Spells (a whole other magic approach) to Shouts, etc.
Tap uses the Power assigned to the 12:00 position on the wheel, Hold brings up the wheel allowing you to quickly select another on it (while slowing time to give you time to react).
Basic controls on a game pad would be, for instance, the Triggers and Bumpers for these.
I'm in the flip side though, as I think 1st Person is the superior perspective and would prefer it. I find 3rd person combat leans too heavily on form rather than function, and usually looks showboaty and tacky.
Anyway... From this basic model, you have room for the two basic forms of attack, meaning you can make weapons behave more uniquely based on their design (which has benefits to Armour and Damage models).
You can include far more specialised attack types, without resorting to that god awful movement control scheme.
You create a system where the player can build their characters combat loadout as they see fit, both on PC and Console.
You use minimal inputs, allowing for more control through other systems.
vagrant aurora
I do think a radial dial that slows time would work great in TES
I like the way Horizon Forbidden West handles weapon swapping. Even Ghost of Taushima has a good system. I like the radial dials in Baldurs Gate 3 too but i find myself spending a lot of time reading each attack and rearranging a lot.
feral viper
DooM 2012 was my first real introduction to the approach, at least in any degree which didn't interrupt the flow of combat.
night ember
sick that a snow elf is still alive in the dlc
primal olive
That's where competent worldbuilding comes into play.
For a setting where ever...
for anti magic people they sure do like when it's convenient for them
primal olive
sick that a snow elf is still alive in the dlc
his dialogue also sets Bethesda up to eventually add more snow elves to tes stuff
I loove snow elves they're like insulin to my diabetes I need them
dim reef
They could add a snow elf companion. An ancient snow elf left alone while they knew about died. Like Javik from ME3
jade plover
For combat id like to see a parry system(some enemy attacks are unblockable), ro...
Being oriented mainly for the 1st person gameplay is one of the key features of the elder scrolls
primal olive
They could add a snow elf companion. An ancient snow elf left alone while they k...
perhaps
unlikely though
I desire playable snow elves or more lore for me to learn everything of in an obsessive manner
dim reef
Well they do a "ancient member of x that no longer exists" thing with every game so I'd wager they'd do one in this game as well.
But so far we've already done dwemer, vampires, snow elves and akaviri ghosts.
Need someone else for the next game
I personally advocate for Dremoras
They could do something about a former member of any ancient dremora clan that broke up years ago
jade plover
About akaviri ghosts. I dont think its suitable. They dont give you any lore and its just humans basically
Ancient member of x for oblivion was Umaril
So we had last dwemer, then last ayleid, then last falmer
So its logical to get last lefthanded elf in the next game
vagrant aurora
More activities and sports id like to see in TES6: a “unique to the elder scrolls” medieval-style sport/game with worldwide, nationwide, or statewide(filters) leaderboards. Ability to do more jobs or run your own shop/hire employees to sell your junk. Fishing, Hunting, Trapping, bow range, black powder weapons games, hide and seek, tap-a-keg, drinking games, card games, collectibles games, horse racing, glider racing, croquet, snowball fights, tree felling competition, jousting, combat games for each of unarmed, melee weapons, long range weapons, and magic. Parkour/obstacle challenges(if movement is revamped), ship racing, pirates games, cooking competition, monster challenges(Horizon games), underwater challenges, randomized maze dungeon challenge(think God of War 2018), farming competition games, technically any tool in game could have its own mini game, games/activities that are unique to each city or region (if both High Rock and Hammerfell are included), seasonal, and classist(maybe only nobles can play certain games), guild specific games/activities, etc.
feral viper
for anti magic people they sure do like when it's convenient for them
I think it's more an issue of people not wanting to put the work into worldbuilding to explain it.
The Dunmer were good. Their magical aversions and acceptances were well explored.
Everyone else 'hates magic' while every toddler and granny already knows how to use it.
dim reef
Do they really hate it then? Most seem wary to the bigger stuff like the college of winterhold but they don't seem to mind the normal stuff like healing and telekinesis
It could just be a loud minority I'd say because even the college gets a decent amount of new students
jade plover
I think it's more an issue of people not wanting to put the work into worldbuild...
There are not many people in skyrim who can use magic
Its temples workers, jarls mages and dudes in winterhold, no one else
So i dont understand whats wrong with nords disliking magic, it seems accurate
dim reef
Do they really hate it tho? They prefer non magical stuff but i don't think they immediately banish anyone who uses magic
And like i said the college apparently gets a decent amount of visitors/students/scholars so it can't be that maligned
slow loom
In comparison to Oblivion, Skyrim has almost no magic. The College of Winterhold is on the northern most part, furthest away from everything. Meanwhile every town has a mages guild just about and the main guild is in the centre of the map in Oblivion.
feral viper
Skyrim is certainly better, but it's still a far cry from good. Mages can be found amongst basically every bandit camp, in most taverns, and even in half the farms.
And that's without even touching on every Nord drunk married to a Witch
Part of the problem is that Magic makes no sense in TES. They try to make it sound academic and even formulaic, but there's no actual structure to it. There's no consistency to learning it across titles.
The most we get are disjointed factoids that sound like someone memorized a few random quotes out of an encyclopedia in the 80s, and has been using that to sound smart for decades.
While formulating Hate against something you can't clearly define is a common tactic, even in the real world...
It doesn't really work when what you're trying to nebulously define is SO vague it could be literally anything.
Magic, as a whole, needs a redesign. Both in terms of lore, and gameplay application
primal olive
Well they do a "ancient member of x that no longer exists" thing with every game...
if it's Hammerfell it'll probably be giant goblins or left handed elves since ESO brought back to corelanya altmer
tardy tiger
Part of the problem is that Magic makes no sense in TES. They try to make it sou...
Reminds me of another mess because there's a Military in TES5 complete with sieges. But it's all mundane equipment (only Catapults) which doesn't help mages at all. Even knowing the cut content and it's really just Soldiers who are Mages.
noble verge
For what it's worth there are still some pretty big goblins in Tamriel.
Lefties though? It'll be a cold day in Infernace before the sinestral-dominant get any representation because evidently mirroring models and animations is too hard.
dim reef
Reminds me of another mess because there's a Military in TES5 complete with sieg...
We don't even SEE said catapults. There's projectiles coming in from nowhere.
The only visible catapults are stationary ones at the two capitals
Also love how you can see projectiles inside the cities but once you go outside they just vanish
tardy tiger
We don't even SEE said catapults. There's projectiles coming in from nowhere.
Th...
Funny enough the Catapults do have animations. But no npc/player using the catapults animation. As they activate it, run to the front, run to the back and activate it again on repeat.
feral viper
For what it's worth there are still some pretty big goblins in Tamriel.
Lefties...
As a leftie (in all ways, including Sinestral Elves) I am ever offended by the lack of representation.
Skyrim doesn't even let me choose which hand my shield goes in.
feral viper
Reminds me of another mess because there's a Military in TES5 complete with sieg...
Oh man, the military application of Magic in TES is an absolute disaster.
Even Bright put more thought into it. And no one even remembers that movie.
But, I'll be more constructive instead of just criticising...
First, lore-changes.
Link magic directly to the Ehlnofex Language. It's manipulating the language of creation, and as such it's rules are in fact grammatical rules for Ehlnofex. You can make these pretty complex conceptually, as there are some really complicated grammar structures, but it gives you at least a logical foundation to flesh it out with.
Second, there's a distinction between using Spells, and knowing Magic.
Spells are sentences that carry an impact. They can be taught, conceptually, without actually understanding how or why they work.
This is why the Mages Guild became so prominent, and how books like Breathing Water and the Mages Guild Charter can make sense. They produced Spells for common use, effectively like computer programs you plug and play.
Knowing how to make spells, or how to manipulate them, or how they FUNCTION, that takes expertise and years of study.
So, using that basis, you already have a foundation for explaining how Magic works and the rules that bind it in the setting, while also having a structural basis to apply to magic in gameplay.
You also have room for things like Tonal Magic, and Shadow Magic, as other TYPES of magic that work on different aspects of the underlying dynamic.
Whereas Magic is words, Tonal is phonetic sounds, a more fundamental and primal system. Shadow Magic is the power of the dead space BETWEEN sounds, manipulating the pauses and interludes before a statement solidifies.
Mechanically, you can use this grammatical basis to construct spells through pre-set variables.
For instance, Firebolt would, in effect, be Fire-Go-There. Burning Touch would be Fire-Go-Here. Fireball would be Fire-Go-There-Explode
At its most basic, Noun-Verb-Modidier.
dim reef
As a leftie (in all ways, including Sinestral Elves) I am ever offended by the l...
You must love Fallout 4 then 
feral viper
Fallout is what I imagine happens when Capitalism wins. 
dim reef
Yup. Every weapon becomes left handed
feral viper
Is it? Never actually noticed.
dim reef
Yeah. All the reload animations are left handed
feral viper
Huh, you'd think would have noticed that
dim reef
Even the AK and Remington 700
feral viper
Fun fact, I only ever learned to shoot right handed, despite being left handed, due to the fact none of the firearms we used when I was in the navy were comparable with left-handed firing.
There's a variation now for that, in told, but I had to slog it out with the righties.
Probably contributes to my cognitive dissonance there, where I just automatically assume all guns are right handed in games and don't even register when they aren't
pulsar root
Also love how you can see projectiles inside the cities but once you go outside ...
Good way to show a catapault without straining the engine too much.....for the time anyways.
vagrant aurora
What sorts of new activities, sports or events would you guys like to see in TES6?
tardy tiger
Good way to show a catapault without straining the engine too much.....for the t...
They do have catapults set up at the siege camps and at the cities during sieges With NPCs using them. They just don't have proper animations for NPCs loading and firing them as they'll fire it will just look odd when watching a NPC do it
jade plover
Mechanically, you can use this grammatical basis to construct spells through pre...
So basically you want a voice acting for magic and a lore book that would tell you thats an ancient laguage. I dont get it how is this going to change the gameplay?
jade plover
What sorts of new activities, sports or events would you guys like to see in TES...
They could implement the whole tes legends in there, that would be cool
primal olive
As a leftie (in all ways, including Sinestral Elves) I am ever offended by the l...
same except I am a snow elf
primal olive
But, I'll be more constructive instead of just criticising...
First, lore-chang...
nah keep it linked to Aetherius imo I don't think magic should be language related like that it limits it
primal olive
What sorts of new activities, sports or events would you guys like to see in TES...
Firstly it depends on the culture they intend to show; Should it be Redguards I wanna see warriors training in public shows of swordsmanship
vagrant aurora
They should absolutely have culture-specific activities, but there are so many that would work anywhere in the world.
feral viper
So basically you want a voice acting for magic and a lore book that would tell y...
Not exactly. I'll explain further when I am on break
feral viper
Right, so, it's less a need for voice acting magic and more a basis for using grammatical rules to inform the structure of spells.
This allows you to take the better behavioural aspects of Skyrim's magic and construct a less spredsheet-y Spellcrafting model with more structure and clear limitations, while also allowing Magic to be very clearly variable and informed.
The lore thing is more just a underlying justification for this structure and an integration into the setting.
Which, honestly, Magic doesn't have currently. Magic in TES is random nonsense that is just thrown in and shrugged away with vague platitudes and spoopy hand gestures.
dim reef
I'm hoping for more basic improvements first. Notably VFX.
It's fantasy, make the magic look cool instead of generic fire/electricity/ice with stock sound effects
feral viper
Making things pretty means nothing if the function isn't there.
Look at The Order.
Game was gorgeous. But it lacked any reason to engage with it, because it was so mechanically bare bones.
dim reef
It's still such a basic thing that it needs to be better.
They've been consistently improving melee animations each game but magic is still just causing enemies to ragdoll
Even Fallout has more effects for different guns be it disintegration, goo-ification or burnt alive
Let the magic actually look and feel like magic
feral viper
Eeeh... Melee animations are still remarkably bad.
dim reef
I like the finishers in Skyrim
feral viper
One in 3 finishers doesn't even line up to the target.
dim reef
Yeah but like atleast it's there. Magic just has ragdoll
feral viper
Occasionally disintegration
dim reef
Yeah but YOU can't even disintegrate people yourself. Only way to do it is to raise corpses through necromancy and then kill them
It's so stupid
feral viper
Though I should also make note, that I've found Finishers incredibly tacky since launch, so...
dim reef
Since it's an ARPG i feel like these are absolute basic things that need to be right first.
If the magic doesn't feel punchy or powerful it really won't be fun
feral viper
I'm more of a function over form person.
I don't care if it looks bad, as long as it works well.
You can always pretty up a functional platform.
You can't polish a turd.
dim reef
Hm. I won't mind more unique or creative spells too
Telekinesis especially can be improved a lot especially with their physics engine
feral viper
Telekinesis is one of those things that I don't think Bethesda has the slightest clue what to do with.
dim reef
Teleportation would be cool too i think. Just blip all around the map
feral viper
The entire Mysticism school too...
dim reef
There's so many cool ideas for spells but what do we get?
Absorb 5 health, Deal 20 fire damage, throw random objects that do nothing
feral viper
Magic in TES has always been pretty bad. From Arena to Oblivion, it was basically the same thing, not developing at all in a decade and across 4 games.
The Skyrim actually innovated a bit on it, but did absolutely nothing to show off the range and potential of those innovations.
And based on Starfield's Starborn Powers, I expect magic in TES6 to be... Present..
Which is why I am in favour of a full, ground up rebuild of Magic across the setting.
Because what's there isn't worth saving.
lilac knot
I just finished Indiana jones + DLC. And I hope Todd takes some notes from it for TESVI, the puzzle especially in the DLC where really good, the torch system is cool, the possibility to break walls, go under small opennings, burn things, climb etc.. Would be really interresting for dungeon crawling.
grave parrot
feral viper
Ok, look... I support AI, and think it's an amazing tool that, if used appropriately, could have immense potential.
But that AI Morrowind was... Not it.
vagrant aurora
I just finished Indiana jones + DLC. And I hope Todd takes some notes from it fo...
I haven't played Indiana Jones but I hope Bethesda adds these mechanics and more. They have the time, budget, and hopefully the support of other Microsoft studios for advice on how to accomplish said mechanics if they need them.
eager remnant
I just finished Indiana jones + DLC. And I hope Todd takes some notes from it fo...
Since Todd Howard conceived the game's story and served as executive producer, I feel pretty certain he took some notes.
feral viper
Haven't played it myself, though I've heard good things.
However, it's a radically different type of game, so how much translates is up in the air..
vagrant aurora
The facial animations, at least in the Indiana Jones gameplay vids and trailers, look very nice. Let's hope the NPCs aren't so soulless in TES6. Todd's just out there getting experience, testing different things with different games and studios and mediums, practicing for the big game!
dim reef
Starfield's facial animations were a massive step forward. They just need to be a bit more consistent across most npcs and improve some of the subtler expressions and it'll be good
jade plover
Right, so, it's less a need for voice acting magic and more a basis for using gr...
So you meant to do it for spellcrafting? Then why do we need to use words. It can be a crafting menu like in morrowind and oblivion
jade plover
I'm hoping for more basic improvements first. Notably VFX.
It's fantasy, make th...
I like it that skyrim magic looks mundane, it makes it kind of more realistic than in most other games (especially on unreal engine) where magic looks like fireworks
dim reef
That's what i dislike. It shouldn't be realistic. It's fantasy, not sci fi. It should be over the top and for a lack of a better word magical
jade plover
Even Fallout has more effects for different guns be it disintegration, goo-ifica...
Yeah, this thing is cool. I think there is even a mod for skyrim that makes dead enemies look differently depends on what type of magic killed them
jade plover
That's what i dislike. It shouldn't be realistic. It's fantasy, not sci fi. It s...
It gives elder scrolls magic its own style, while magic in dragon age, hogwarts, avowed etc looks the same
dim reef
But there is no style. That's the problem. All of those franchises have magic that look unique in their own way. ES doesn't. It's just basic lightning and fire
The only spell that looks somewhat unique is the healing effect. Everything else is extremely plain and basic
jade plover
Well, exactly fire and lighting is basic but all the other magic feels unique, i haven't seen the same style in any other games
Dragons dogma has a cool magic btw. It looks realustic, stylish and has a lot of effects at the same time
So bethesda should use it as an example
dim reef
Is it unique tho? The Vampire life drain is very basic as well.
The portal effect is of a singular color with no additional effect that we've seen in plenty of sci fi franchises.
The flair is just standard fireworks.
Frost is also just bog standard ice effects.
The projectiles are somewhat unique but again it's just a small static and symmetrical shape with no additional effect.
Light magic is by far the worst example.
It's literally just a ball of light. They really couldn't think of anything else to produce light?
jade plover
I have a cool idea. There must be different types of same spells for different playstyles. For example necromancer would summon a zombie holding a torch instead of ball of light. Or paladin would create an actual magical armor instead of stoneskin
dim reef
I hope entire map will be hand crafted
eager remnant
I hope entire map will be hand crafted
I imagine they will continue to do what they have done in many of their other games: procedurally generate terrain, then terraform it by hand to accomodate dungeons, roads, towns, ect.
jade plover
UESP made a picture after visiting bethesda office, people think it has lots of hints to hammerfell. I will send it in screenshots chat
What do you all think?
vagrant aurora
https://uesp.tumblr.com/post/796889756792438784/we-just-finished-up-a-meeting-wi...
This is very exciting. I didn't know who won that auction but it im glad that it's someone or rather a team of people who have a deep knowledge of TES. How many people were part of this creation, i wonder?
feral viper
So you meant to do it for spellcrafting? Then why do we need to use words. It ca...
Because the menu in Morrowind and Oblivion was utter garbage, the model was entirely divorced from the setting (as much as you can be divorced when you don't have an actual magic system anyway) it rendered anything but the most basic spells obsolete some you could just craft better yourself...
jade plover
I don't understand. You choose the effect, power, duration and range. What else does it need?
vagrant aurora
I don't understand. You choose the effect, power, duration and range. What else ...
Check out Two Worlds 2's spell crafting system
feral viper
I don't understand. You choose the effect, power, duration and range. What else ...
For one, an interface that isn't just taken from the game editor.
Second, clear limitations, structural and behavioral variability, decent skill Integration, more interesting variables....
jade plover
Okay, sounds good but what does it have to do with verbal magic system? It all can be done in a usual crafting menu
eager remnant
Check out Two Worlds 2's spell crafting system
In case anyone doesn't know what Jman90 is referring to, here iis a video explaining a few of its feastures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XobgQaC3CBs&t=166s&pp=ygUQdHdvIHdvcmxkcyBtYWdpYw%3D%3D
feral viper
Okay, sounds good but what does it have to do with verbal magic system? It all c...
Not verbal. Linguistic.
And that's more of an inspirational basis to build a structured system out of using the disjointed scraps of what TES already offers.
Because honestly, TESs magic is about as well defined as 1st and 2nd century scriptural history...
Using a linguistic basis, you can fit in all the general forms of Magic into a cohesive whole. Tonal, Shadow, Standard, Rune, Nymic, etc.
They're no longer just disjointed toss away ideas with no relation to eachother or the fundamental setting, they're all now parts of a whole tapestry.
On top of that, you can use the structural nature of linguistics, the grammar, to inform Magic design in gameplay, as well as direct the design of the systems you use to engage with magic as a player (such as Spellcrafting)
It also has added benefits of explaining things like Miscasts, which can now be caused by the malformation if letters/words/ideograms within the linguistic structure, causing the spell to go awry
feral viper
In case anyone doesn't know what Jman90 is referring to, here iis a video explai...
It should be noted, that the TW2s system was my starting point in this idea. Using modifiers to alter basic spell behaviours in a more dynamic way.
feral viper
https://uesp.tumblr.com/post/796889756792438784/we-just-finished-up-a-meeting-wi...
Also, vehk's brazen balls, Tumblr? It still exists?
jade plover
Not verbal. Linguistic.
And that's more of an inspirational basis to build a s...
I just realized they already made a similar thing. Enchanting in eso is using words to do an enchantment. But its a simple system there
feral viper
Indeed. Dovah'zuhl is also a very basic linguistic structure.
So the foundation is already present. It's just slapshod and not refined to any degree.
feral viper
Conceptually, in universe, it's basically flipping the script and rather than Language describing Reality, Language (in this case Ehlnofex) prescribes Reality.
In the case of standard Magic, Creatia is still the 'ink' needed to 'write' the script, with Magicka being the most readily available source of Creatia in Mundus, but a Spell is effectively making a reality-forming sentence.
This would explain how spells can be used, but not understood as well, justifying Scrolls, Spellbooks, and Spell Vendors across the various games.
Just because you know a sentence, doesn't mean you understand the grammar and structure of the language. Nor do you have even a remotely complete vocabulary.
That takes more work.
In terms of gameplay, it gives a clear foundation for structuring Spells for use. At base, you could have a simple structure.
Initiator Noun, Verb, Terminator Noun.
More complex spells inject more element. Adjective, Initiator Noun, Verb, Adverb, Adjective, Terminator Noun.
So, Fire Go There, can become Mighty Fire Bounces Towards That General-Area.
This sort of approach would allow you to create specific clear modifiers, effects, and behaviours, while allowing them to be assembled in structured ways, allowing for a lot more spell variety.
But the structure it's self is also one which lends it's self to growing complexity, and therefore to growing expertise, making it a great solution to the RPG problem.
As your skill as a Mage grows, your knowledge of the structure grows as well, allowing you to actually increase the complexity of the sentences (Spells) you utilise.
So, it gives you a mechanical structure to follow, a basis for skill improvement in character integration, and depending on how you develop it artistically (I'd suggest morphic ideograms) a clear outline for interface design.
dim reef
Announce Jeremy Soule
Nope. He's the one thing we are absolutely certain isn't happening
dim reef
Nope. He's the one thing we are absolutely certain isn't happening
They praised Oblivion OST
They praised the music itself which is indeed great. But the person isn't coming back
half igloo
https://uesp.tumblr.com/post/796889756792438784/we-just-finished-up-a-meeting-wi...
love this
feral viper
They praised Oblivion OST
I mean, they also praised the rest of Oblivion. And well...
dim reef
They praised the music itself which is indeed great. But the person isn't coming...
maybe it was a hint. who knows
It really wasn't. Trust me. No one even knows where Soule is. He's gone.
The most likely replacement is Inon Zur
dim reef
The most likely replacement is Inon Zur
Not fan of his Starfield work
Starfield wasn't his best work but he has done plenty of great work. He's already followed up Soule's style back in the old days with Icewind Dale 2 so he has practice
He's also already done some ES music before with Blades so you can get a taste of what he might do
https://youtu.be/GG8ktak-ncg?si=nKWfrxSOx6rnl9C5
dim reef
He's also already done some ES music before with Blades so you can get a taste o...
His TES: Blades work reminds me of Fallout
The main theme does but the rest of the work is quite ES sounding. I even injected most of it into Skyrim
feral viper
I mean, TES isn't even Soules best work... And I'd argue Oblivion was his worst TES work.
Still, I actually think TESs music is pretty stale at this point, so I'd accept literally anyone.
Get NiN to do the soundtrack.
vagrant aurora
It would be cool if there was different battle anticipation music and fight music depending on the enemy, location, and intensity of the fight as it progresses. More variety in the worldwide ambience music. Music that not only changes for enemies but also changes when you see certain animals, weather changes, day/night cycle, traveling bards playing music or npcs singing.
feral viper
I went on a very long rant about music recently, so I won't do so again.
dim reef
The main theme does but the rest of the work is quite ES sounding. I even inject...
I don't think Secunda or Harvest Dawn will be topped
I want to feel like I am in fantasy world
They don't need to be. Every entry has a different spin on it's music instead of trying to one up what came before. That's what I'm looking forward to. How they'll tweak the music next.
vagrant aurora
I went on a very long rant about music recently, so I won't do so again.
Being new here, I feel like I missed out on so many parties 😆
feral viper
It's ok. I am a creature of habit, and I will rehost those parties eventually.
vagrant aurora
I haven't used discord very much so im somewhat new to this platform as well. If id thought about it I would've joined years ago. Before skyrim was released I was so hyped that I would look for crumbs of information. I find myself getting back into that mindset with TES6. I know there's plenty of people upset with Bethesda, and maybe rightfully so, but, I love the hype. I love the Elder scrolls and im going to ride this hype train till the cows come home.
dim reef
I do hope there's unique tracks for every companion. I loved how DATV had unique themes for all the companions that play in their cutscenes and personal quests
nimble pond
Also, since necromancy is a thing. Bring in a sacrifice feature we can even use on our companions or spouses in return for unique trade-offs in rewards. Everytime one of them gives away my position while sneaking, it's off to the altar table they go!
feral viper
I haven't used discord very much so im somewhat new to this platform as well. If...
Unfortunately, it's still vastly inferior to the old forums...
dim reef
Game discussion in general has gone quite downhill these last couple of years especially on Twitter.
vagrant aurora
I hope we can have our companions ride on horseback/mount with us.
Or spawn their own mounts
dim reef
They finally managed to figure that out with the car in Starfield (companions can ride with you) so i assume it'll be there in ES6 as well
livid ingot
Unfortunately, it's still vastly inferior to the old forums...
I really miss the forums... 🥲
feral viper
Discord is a great platform for general conversation, but it's really lacking in the necessary tools for detailed and clear discussion.
pulsar root
When they're actually moderated...sure and not... ummm permissive moderation. Like one fan forum(That is not bethesada related).
feral viper
My first Forum experiences really spoiled me. Both the Bethesda Forums, and 40kOnline, were (and in the latter case, still is) pretty stringently moderated.
There are some truely degenerate forums out there.
Though, I probably SHOULD warn you @vagrant aurora ... I am sort of the resident grouch.
Most of the older people know I've been around for awhile, and my feelings on things have changed over the years.
Currently, I tend to be quite critical, though I do try to offer suggestions to address the criticism rather than just pointing out problems.
But ive also grown very much to... Not like the setting. So I can be very harsh on what I view as it's nonsensical worldbuilding and squandered potential.
I do think that Bethesda still makes good games, however, and that they are uniquely in a position to potentially make revolutionary ones.
Which is why I'm still here, instead of having abandoned Bethesda entirely. The games have great potential, the setting of TES... Less so.
plucky ruin
I loved the older esoteric borderline schizophrenic stuff the writers had put out
The word is ALMSIVI.
feral viper
Battlespire, Redguard and Morrowind showed such potential.
Since then, though, all of that's been flushed.
Ithelia was so rage inducing it's what made me leave ESO, and turn on the setting as a whole...
But, I still think there's value here. Even if it's not in the setting.
vagrant aurora
Does anybody know if all Bethesda employees are back in office after (im assuming) having been working from home during covid?