#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 25 of 1

austere oasis
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In the context of elderscrolls and the way it works currently 20 characters is nothing in a game of its size 20 individually written characters might be a lot but it'd still be possible to have done

feral viper
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But 90% of those options barely even qualify as characters

austere oasis
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As it is now romance is just a checkbox feature for your collection to give some sense of feeling of reality like adopting

feral viper
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Which is, IMO, so low a bar it might as well be a participation trophy.

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Though, if the options are meaningless checkbox, or whatever happens to competent characters in Starfield...

I'll take the checkbox.

nimble pond
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I realize there's like ethereal spells. But do they have any spells that like.. temporarily put you in a state of being undead? Maybe even able to communicate with other undead whilst spell is active? No, not like vampires. More like daugr.

feral viper
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None that we've really seen. At least, not temporary ones. Becoming Undead generally seems permanent.

Though some sort of Necromancy related spell which allows you to directly pilot an undead minion as a disposable body could be readable. Call it Dread Puppet or something.

livid ingot
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Err, maybe that's permanent

timid drum
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It's not permanent as you can be cured from vampirism

livid ingot
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A plot point that basically makes no sense with any established lore, but there you have it

timid drum
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Forgot about that, fair point

pulsar root
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Yeah I don't do the vampire thing.

timid drum
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Yea neither do I, werewolf is much better

feral viper
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Per the usual Deepity worldbuilding in TES, the function and nature of Souls, the Undead, or even exactly what Soul Trapping even does is so nebulous and poorly defined that you might as well just do your best Elmo and move on.

livid ingot
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I didn't really even see the narrative need for this option. Vampirism is curable... it would have been an important character moment for the player's OC

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Even if their character was vehemently opposed to vampires in every way; it would show the ultimate commitment to the cause and their willingness to sacrifice themselves in that endeavor.

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And a great opportunity to reference the player's history if they'd already been a vampire in the past and were cured.

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The partial soul trap was a "having your cake and eating it too" decision choice

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And tbh... Beth didn't really have to make the Soul Cairn uninhabitable to the living in the first place. So I think they planned this as a important story moment, but later got cold feet

feral viper
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If I start going into narrative choices in this franchise, I'm going to get myself banned..

Sufficed to say... We don't even know what Undeath IS in the context of the setting. So there's no real reason to say you can't temporarily become it.

dusty scroll
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yo is there an eso lfg chat?

spare plaza
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not on this discord

dusty scroll
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D:

nimble pond
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Interesting. I guess what I'm going for is more of a temporary purgatory mode? Not really fully alive, but not really fully dead either. Like a zombie, undead?

feral viper
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Without actual information on what undead are, it's impossible to give concrete ideas.

feral viper
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If this was D&D, then the answer would be simple.

Undead are a class of entity powered by the Negative Energy Plane (since merged with the Shadowfel, though it's slowly pulling away). Even native creatures like Nightwalkers are Undead, despite never having been living creatures that died.

In order to become temporarily Undead, you would need to absorb or manifest sufficient Negative Energy to temporarily overwhelm the Positive Energy of the soul (all Souls originate from the Positive Energy Plane, from an edifice called the Citadel of Souls) without that soul being expelled or consumed by the Negative Energy.

In effect, to become Undead you'd have to temporarily invert the cosmic polarity of the soul.

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TES has no clearly laid out mechanism for how anything works. So the best explanation for if it's possible would be...

pulsar root
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A necromancer did it!

livid ingot
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Looks like Wes Johnson is recovering?

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Praise the Nine

noble verge
chrome star
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I downloaded the eagles rest mod and none of the buttons on the wall are working. Does anyone know the fix

eager remnant
chrome star
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Thanks

nimble pond
nimble pond
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Like idk, say you could transform into a daugr(zombie). One of the perks of it being while you are in that state, you can never die.

distant moss
feral viper
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They may be truely immortal though, as their souls are rebirthed in Alinor at the whim of.. I think it's Manwe...

But regardless, some autonomous undead in TES to seem to get back up. So even being 'killed' seems to be more of a temporary inconvenience.

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Even Vampires can apparently regenerate after being killed, and come back

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So, since vampisim can in fact be cured, it may do exactly what Gin&Tonic wants. It's temporary Undeath, though with a downside of drinking blood.

nimble pond
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Like say in-game, you're fighting and your health hits zero. You die, screen goes black, game reloads last save. I'm saying while you're in the Daugr state, that doesn't happen, even when your health hits zero. In fact, you have no health..
There could be some downsides/weaknesses to being in this mode, but on the flipside you are immortal while in this temporary mode. Along with other perks and abilities. If not, at least some sort of spell of that nature would be cool.

Haa, it could kinda work like how in The Mummy he has to regenerate his physical body, so you'd start out very weak, but still undead and immortal ofc.
I just want to be a zombie in TES. 😊

They got vampires and all these were-creatures. But now I'm starting to look at more as monster transformations. Vampire, Werewolf, Zombie/Mummy/Skeleton, Frankenstein/Ogre(super-strength), Gill-man, Rodan or Gargoyle(flying), Robotic(Dwemer), Wraith/Dementor, Gremlin (small).

nimble pond
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But another topic, I do like the Evles thing and "immunities." I think it's fun to play around with the subject. Gives some uniqueness and some foes that cannot be slain the same way as everything else.

feral viper
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I personally hate how Immunities have traditionally been handled, but like the IDEA of them..

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My problem has always been in how mono-form the dynamic has been. Enemies of X level require Silver or better. Enemies of Y level require Elven of better.

That sort of linear progression is just clunky and strips the character and identity both from individual types of creatures, and also from the materials used themselves.

feral viper
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Like, if SPECIFIC creature types had immunity to SPECIFIC materials, I think you could create a far more dynamic and interesting overall experience.

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For instance, if Ghosts required Elven weapons. Lycanthropes required Silver. Orchalcum was toxic to trolls. Spriggans were repulsed by Iron.

Etc

austere oasis
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Ghosts in Oblivion only being able to be killed by Magic is good to mix up combat

feral viper
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Magic/Enchanted, Silver, or Daedric weapons, if memory serves.

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It's been like a decade since I genuinely played Oblivion though. And 2 years since I bothered to install it.

pulsar root
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No I remember some ghosts requiring magic to defeat Admittingly I recall that being annoying even if I agree encouraging different ways to do combat.

austere oasis
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I only remember Ghosts being needed to be killed by magic because of that quest with the sunken ship and the lich

feral viper
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Part of the annoyance too comes from the total absence of any sort of investigative or learning aspect of the game. No Codex, no Journal, no Insight, no nothing.

The incredibly shallow general gameplay curve leaves no real room to preparation or the accumulation of knowledge on the part of the player, or in many ways the Character.

It's just: Go to dungeon. Beat monster with stick. Collect loot.

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At its best, these sorts of vulnerability approaches in TES have only ever really amounted to: Your stick must be THIS shiny to beat monster.

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This gets compounded by shallow worldbuilding, leaving no real way to even relay useful insight even if the mechanics were in place to exploit it.

austere oasis
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Oblivion is just about perfect the only glaring problems are the way enemies level with the player making higher levels more difficult than low levels and that stealth in dungeons doesn't really work as enemies can hear you through walls even if you're above them

pulsar root
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The level scaling....an example of what NOT to do(Don't hurt me todd its true)

austere oasis
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It's not wrong per se there's two ideas for rpg leveling the higher you get the easier the game becomes in the early game areas and mid game areas so you at least have some sense of power which can get a little boring cause there's no challenge then there's the 'everything levels with you so the game is always some level of difficult' which has the downside of never making the player feel strong ever which can work but it didn't in oblivion

feral viper
eager remnant
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Terical is feeling ill, lol.

hidden herald
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Blame Peryite

feral viper
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Nah, this illness is more on the scale of Papa Nurgle, or B's Black Grail.

wide garnet
feral viper
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Using the Skyrim engine will address SOME of the many, many problems with Oblivion. But it will never be able to address the worldbuilding and story problems..

wide garnet
feral viper
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Nah, I don't think that's fixable without a full-scale rewrite.

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And then you're just making a new game, not Oblivion.

primal olive
nimble pond
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Ah, he just got into the Felldew again..

wide garnet
feral viper
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Someone said Oblivion was almost perfect.

But anyway, moving on.

timid drum
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See here's the thing with Bethesda games, they're amazing and lovable despite how buggy they are. You just gotta overlook the buggy part and not be so critical
If anything, it's fun using the bugs to have more fun in Bethesda games

feral viper
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Oh, my problems with Oblivion have little to do with bugs.

It's more to do with every deliberate choice they made.

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Without saying too much, because the more I talk about Oblivion the more likely the Mods are to get angry...

I think Oblivion is hands down the worst game Bethesda has ever made, and it's not even close. What few improvements over Morrowind it had, are already done far better in Skyrim anyway, so it is entirely devoid of any value moving forward.

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While it does have its problems, Skyrim still stands as the best basis for improvement and iteration, provided the goal is a better and more meaningful RPG.

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Theres still a lot of work to be done, but starting with Skyrim and building off that is going to be the best approach, I think.

Mechanically anyway. The setting is already a write off for me.

pulsar root
wide garnet
timid drum
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Terical, it's fine you don't like oblivion. But respect the fact others like it and stop being so critical about everything. It's a game, nothing more

feral viper
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I can respect the fact that people like things.

But liking something does not it's self make it good. I adore Master of Orion 3, and still play it to this day (though Stellaris is catching up). That doesn't make it GOOD.

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Disentangling quality from enjoyment is the first step of UNDERSTANDING enjoyment. And it is fundamentally necessary to improve.

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This process works in reverse too. Simply deciding something is bad because you don't enjoy it does nothing to tell you WHY.

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At the same time, some of games aspects are far more subjective than others. Mechanics have clear goals, a clear range, and clear function, and therefore can be evaluated in a more objective way.

Setting, worldbuilding, stories and characters are far more subjective (though there's still a lot of objective rules they follow, such as story structure and explanative power, but that's a whole other thing). As such there's not as much of a basis to explore them in an objective way.

That's why I prefer to focus on the mechanics. Because if one system has 5000 outcomes, and another has 500 outcomes, you can evaluate that in a clear and objective way.

Be critical of everything. Full stop. It's the only way to actually learn and understand things. Games or otherwise. Perfection is the death of progress, and it's only by being critical that we improve.

eager remnant
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It is important to be as articulate as possible when we voice criticism. Simply saying something is "good" or "bad" tells us little. Tim Cain makes the point that, from a developer standpoint, he feels it is important to give articulate feedback about what we like as well as what we don't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCjHipuMir8

YouTube
Timothy Cain
Do Gamers Know What They Like?

I talk about how many gamers don't seem to know what they like, only what they don't like.

Videos I reference:
Giving Good Feedback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-72btgrwKzA
Feedback Needs Context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wBEMGov0HY
Fast Travel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyj6X7EaBsY
Game Difficulty Settings: https://www.youtub...

▶ Play video
feral viper
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Indeed.

Though I take it one step further, and maintain that you should be able to tear even the things you love apart .

I could sit here and rip on Morrowind just as hard as Oblivion. And it's the last Bethesda game I truely love, and one of my favourite games of all time.

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Because if you can't find something critical about it, it's perfect.

And perfection isn't real.

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Being able to concisely articulate it is easier said than done though

feral viper
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Now, to answer Mr. Cain's question directly, no. I do not think gamers know what they like. But I think that's caused by a much wider societal problem where reason and critical evaluation has become the enemy of self-validatjon, and people are hellbent in Opinions being equal to Fact.

That's a whole other rabbit hole that simply doesn't belong in this channel, or on this Discord in general.

timid drum
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Sometimes being hell bent on factual things takes out the joy of gaming, which is where I'm getting at. You have to accept Bethesda isn't going to have a non buggy game, accept it and move on. Otherwise you're just digging yourself a rabbit hole :p

feral viper
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Well, again, bugs are not my concern.

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In fact, my discourse when Starfield came out was largely centered around actively mocking people who thought it would be bug free.

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Or rather, who bought a Bethesda game with the expectation that it would be anything close to bug free.

spare anchor
timid drum
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It was a general thing, but sometimes you gotta take a step back and let others enjoy games without being so hyper critical
Perhaps there can be a channel for rabbit holes you make of analyzing games so much :p

feral viper
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Indeed. That's ranging off topic.

But like, I can sit here and dismantle everything wrong with Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood. From the quests, to the plot holes, to the tonal inconsistency, to the worldbuilding problems, and so on.

Does that mean people can't enjoy it? Absolutely not.

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I love the Bayformer movies, and they're ATROCIOUS. You can like something that's actively bad.

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But you're never going to be able to offer any sort of meaningful input if all you've got is 'I like it'.

And whether or not Bethesda actually looks at or cares what any of us say, maybe I still hope that they're actually interested in making better games.

timid drum
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Fair point, my point was take a step back on how much critical feed back you say because if Bethesda wants any ideas/suggestions, they'll look at the respective channels, not the general chat ones

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But that's just me, do what ya want. I'm not a mod so not gonna enforce anything lol

feral viper
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Once upon a time we had a running thread on the Forums for such ideas. But seeing as those days are gone (and we are all lesser for that) and no Suggestions Channel or anything similar exists...

This is where I end up.

timid drum
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There's #76-suggestions and a Starfield suggestions chat, so perhaps there's hope there

feral viper
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Fair enough.

pulsar root
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I am surprised BGS went to Discord these days but... whatever works for them(Instead of forums or whatever)

feral viper
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I cannot speculate as to the reason behind it, though I can say I dislike it. Just in terms of formatting, Discord is vastly inferior and makes long-form topics and specificity extremely difficult.

feral viper
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Though, really, that formatting loss hit when the previous forum software was discontinued, and the new software lacked some of the most basic tools necessary.

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I swear, that shift was like going from Steam to Epic Games Store during its first 6 months... Just a raw lack of basic functionality.

tardy tiger
feral viper
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Oh, I just flatly reject Perfection. There will always be something to improve, no matter how good things get.

And improving is ultimately all that matters. Because otherwise, all you have is stagnation and rot.

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Some things are definitely more subjective of course, and you can improve on different directions.

ESO is, for instance, objectively an improvement in terms of worldbuilding and fleshing out the setting. It digs deeper into the cultures, mythologies, and histories of even the main focus of the last 2 mainline games (Imperials and Nords) than those games themselves did.

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I think 95% of it is absolute rubbish and its clear that neither ZoS nor Bethesda are even interested in making the same sort of world I want, but that doesn't mean it's it BETTER than what was.

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But that's why I try to lean more on Mechanics, as there's less subjectivity involved.

tardy tiger
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I actually prefer ESOs classes because it expands magic. Something Betheseda has struggled with ingame.
Also helps having Necromancers with something more then a raise dead spell.

pulsar root
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I'd rather classes be more open then the typical MMO strictness(Which again I totally accept) Still salty there's no warrior/soldier class tho

tardy tiger
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Classes in Bethesda was really used for leveling.

ESO just gave more gameplay reasons (Does help that it expanded magic).

feral viper
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I think it's classes are vastly superior to the overly generic classes of past TES games (ironic, considering how much more bargain basement generic the setting becomes with every new release) but the Classless approach offers far, far more range and outcomes.

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It grants the ability to mix and match identities with fewer hoops, and renders Classes more as broad categories and professions rather than dictating identity

tardy tiger
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Yeah. Classes is more free it's just Bethesda hasn't really done well with magic.

While ESO for classes let them focus on specific magic like off the top of my head

Nightblade - Shadow magic
Templar - Sun magic
Necromancer - Necromancy
Dragonknight - Kiai or something Akaviri
Arcanist - Mora's Daedric Magic

I've forgotten for Warden and Sorcerer.

feral viper
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In terms of the mainline games, the only real mechanical value to classes is for NPCs.

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But, at least, the ideas brought forward in ESO give more grounds for more interesting magical effects that go beyond just being generic spell effects thrown into a blender.

primal olive
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apparently Falmer valley came from a dream by Jeremy soule which is insanely cool

primal olive
noble verge
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I had a thought today: if we ever get to an Elsweyr game, I want it to go full Jade Empire.

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Give us an emphasis on martial arts, both armed and unarmed.

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And not just the Khajiit arts- the presence of the Rim-Men would justify having some Akaviri arts.

feral viper
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Well, in a practical sense, everyone everywhere is using martial arts to fight.

That's what martial arts are for.

noble verge
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What I mean is having a variety- different animations with the different styles having different properties in terms of speed, damage, and effects.

feral viper
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Weapon properties I think are a must for any improvements to combat.

Animations I'm not sold on, simply because they sacrifice function for style. Sure they look good, but they're prescribing how you (the player) fight, usually through set attack types.

Want to Thrust with your mace? Too bad, that's not part of the fighting style we designed for it. And that prescription it's self creates limitations in what you can do with weapon properties and combat dynamics.

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You also typically fall into issues with specific weapon types and the combat styles defined for them. Souls-like games are a big example here, with the types of attacks you have access to bring defined by the Light and Heavy choices of the weapon it's self.

But this it's self is limiting, because in reality almost every weapon has multiple fighting styles developed both by different people's, and for different situations.

Scimitars, for instance, have at least 5 known historical fighting styles, all being very unique (my favourite being one developed for use when penetrating pike and spear formations).

But the sheer amount of work required to actually reflect that in any practical way is of minimal value, and still ultimately missed out on the potential to just ... You know... Be BAD with the weapon and actively use it improperly.

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Could it be done? Yeah, probably. But you're going to be looking at a pretty complex system to pull it off successfully.

feral viper
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Of course, I also play almost exclusively in first person, and prioritize concise control over visuals. I imagine that 3rd person would probably look very unrefined in many of my idealised schemes, if not downright janky.

noble verge
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More weapon and unarmed animations would be more complicated, but it would be a wonderful departure from the current system of having just one animation set each for 1h, 2h, and unarmed combat.

Different animations will mean different attack speeds, different damage, and if TES pulls itself out of the melee combat stone age, different hit boxes. It also means that there's more ways to fight even if you're using the same weapon, and I absolutely believe that's a plus. Can't thrust with a mace? What if there was a martial style that allowed it?

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Granted, first person view cannot do justice to martial arts compared to third person. However, given the choice I would rather TES move to combat optimized for third person because I believe it has more potential. For a place like Elsweyr, with the lore we have on the Khajiit, it'd be a huge waste to not give a strong emphasis on different unarmed combat styles.

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It's be a big departure for sure, but I believe that shaking up the formula and tailoring it to whatever province a game is in would be a good thing.

pulsar root
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Combat needs still be fun and not try to push me to my limit(Except maybe the final boss or encounter in the MQ then I kinda get it). Otherwise improve it because skyrim combat is not perfect, it works don't get me wrong but as someone said earlier it can always be improved.

TLDR: More fun plz

Edit: No Soulsborne shennigans....pls

feral viper
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Yeah... Though fun is one of those subjective and not-particularly-useful metrics unless you can clearly articulate why it's fun.

Like, some people find Souls-like combat fun. I think those people are masochist who just enjoy being abused, but that's a whole other issue...

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But I do agree that SOMETHING needs to be done. Fallout 4, 76, and especially Starfield have shown a combat trend that is, IMO, entirely unsustainable and outright detrimental, and cannot be continued to TES6.

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Not unless the only viable way to play the game will be on Novice unless you want to have to set aside an entire day to beat one Goblin to death with your neutered foam bat because it has 60 million health.

sly inlet
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Has there been any more news on the next elderscrolls online dlc?

harsh crown
thorny grotto
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do we have an ETA on when the elderscrolls offline will be the elderscrolls online again, or what the notes will be for maintanence?

hidden herald
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We do not handle news about ESO here. This place is for titles developed by Bethesda Game Studios, not Zenimax Online Studios

thorny grotto
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fair enough

hidden herald
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While there is some crossover between moderators between here and the ESO forums, but not the developers for ESO. Hence why players and moderators need to point people to the official website.

thorny grotto
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i think i found it, thanks!

native umbra
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ESO has its own discord server

primal olive
feral viper
# pulsar root Combat needs still be fun and not try to push me to my limit(Except maybe the fi...

My idealised combat system would actually be a blend of Daggerfall, and Dead Island's Analogue Combat. A clean and responsive dynamic giving you access to 8 basic attack types, all with different variables and situational uses, would be glorious to me.

But I'm equally aware that most people would absolutely hate that, so over the years I've moved away from my ideal system towards a more generally acceptable one.

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But, and this gets into some real nitty gritty stuff that I genuinely don't think the gaming community, players or developers, really think about as much as they should.

You first have to consider what role combat is playing in your game at large. Is it simply a time sink to slow your progression? It is an actively engaging puzzle for players to solve? Is it a side activity or the primary interaction mechanism?

You need to answer a lot of basic conceptual questions BEFORE you can even look at what sort of combat approach suits the game best. And more often than not, games just pick from one of 3 combat models (FPS, 3rd Person Action, Point and Click) drop it in a game, and move on.

primal olive
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I just want spears

pulsar root
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Would have no idea what Dead Island combat is. Just want it to be fun and satisfying not necessarily Brutal or extreme precision.

livid ingot
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Your character's main weapon is, like, part of their image, their personality

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I made a Bosmer character for a RP once (back in the official forum days) whose main weapon was a blow gun. Blow guns have never found their way into TES so it's kind of impossible to create an in-game iteration of the character that feels authentic

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I'm not saying TES should include blow guns but rather that a diversity of weapons can create a wider diversity of characters that feel unique

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Forget Souls-like difficulty or combat

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It's the itch to create unique characters that the Fromsoft games have satisfied that Skyrim wasn't really able to in the long term

austere oasis
livid ingot
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Sometimes I'd build characters around a single weapon, which is almost impossible in Skyrim really because you basically have 3-4 weapon types. Whereas the Fromsoft games most weapons are unique is some way

austere oasis
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I like the way Kingdom Come Deliverance did combat I'd want stuff like that in the next elderscrolls but not quite like KCD I'm referring to Melee and shield combat when I say this KCD Bows are too steep a learning curve for a game like the elderscrolls

austere oasis
livid ingot
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i.e. it doesn't feel like a fresh experience, you don't have to approach challenges in new ways, etc

austere oasis
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I was just using it as a personal example, most of Bethesda games are playing the game and filling in the gaps with imagination anyway

livid ingot
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Oh yeah, I agree 👍

pulsar root
feral viper
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Basically, holding the Attack Input (Left Mouse on PC) would disable your camera control, and instead ready your weapon. Moving your mouse, would then swing your weapon in the same way you moved the mouse.

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So you couldn't look around, but you'd attack on exactly the way you wanted, at exactly the angle you wanted.

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It was awkward to start with, but when you got the hang of the controls you could reliably dismantle Zombies with precision easily, and even the loss of camera control while your weapon was readied quickly stopped being an issue, as you could quickly snap attacks and releasing the button reinitiated camera control.

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But, despite the fact that I adored it, almost no one actually used it, so the idea never made it into any of Deep Silver's other games.

primal olive
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Udhelibor <3

feral viper
livid ingot
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A what??

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Also, you can't have a favored weapon without looking incompetent? 🤔

feral viper
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There is a difference between having a favoured weapon, and total reliance on it.

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And a Gygaxism. A term I use to refer to RPG tropes, largely derived from Gary Gygax and the multitude of systems spun off of his original D&D ideas.

Identity and equipment defining Classes, for instance.

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Actual competent, skilled, and professional fighters of any sort recognise the differences in weapons, and their different uses. The modern idea of a particular type of warrior using a particular type of weapon is a total fabrication, and is both historically belittling, but also mechanically limiting.

pulsar root
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We all like weapons we prefer. /shrug

feral viper
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Sure, and everyone is going to have a favourite. But being defined by that is a problematic perspective so engrained in RPGs as a whole that it's actively hurting the genre.

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I mean, hell. The Samurai, the classic 'Defined by their weapon' archetype, didn't even use the Katana most of the time. They were Archers/Musketmen first, Polearm fighters second, and swordsmen third.

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Katana were more like a part of formal dress, and used primarily in duels and executions (or murders, depending on how asinine the Samurai in question was).

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And this design focus on a trope-driven identity concept actively restricts game design and makes combat systems worse in the process.

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So, it's not Realistic. It's not Mechanically Flexible. And it's not increasing Character Diversity.

All it exists to do is perpetuate it's own existence.

ember anchor
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Is there no specific chat for eso? Or is this basically it?

spare anchor
ember anchor
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Ahhhhh that would be why got you okay thanks

marble bridge
eager remnant
jolly badge
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Should Elder scrolls+ be part of game pass ultimate?

primal olive
feral viper
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I got in relatively easily, but that was admittedly like a decade ago. A lot can change in that time..

cold minnow
# livid ingot Yeah, a diversity of weapons would be top tier

The easiest way to give the game more diversity would be to have multiple blades, guards and hilts for each weapon type (iron, steel, etc) and let us chose whichever we want when forging

Like, having a style for each race on each weapon material would make the most sense, then have some unlockable styles like a dark brotherhood shadowed blade or a nightingale one

feral viper
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Which seems like a great segue into crafting.

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I think that, taking the general mechanical process of Crafting from Fallout 4 (and by extension, 76 and Starfield) and applying it to TES could work wonders.

But I am hesitant to adopt the same system wholesale, as the sorts of weapons and armours of a Medieval Fantasy setting aren't as modular as the firearms and equipment of a futuristic one.

pulsar root
#

They could just make more variety of weapons I assume even making just one weapon model isn't that time intensive. At least for seasoned devs like Bethesda.

feral viper
#

Well, we're talking about time constraints that apparently led them to dropping the idea for Jarl Balgruf's throne because it would take too long. To make a fancy chair.

So out of respect for the efforts of the team, I'm going to assume that there so swamped with things to do that 'More for the sake of more' isn't very high on their priority list..

feral viper
#

More to the point, and in a more constructive context, I think that the Crafting System used in more recent Bethesda games could be adapted to make better and more efficient USE of the efforts of the art team.

#

Instead of designing whole classes of equipment around a particular material or culture, instead divide the two.

Take ESOs Styles and allow them to be applied to any material, where the Style dictates the model, and the Material dictated the texture.

#

You can then take the modularity of the crafting system and apply it to specific parts of items. So you can use a Scimitar with a basket guard, or one with a straight guard.

livid ingot
#

These are some cool ideas, but I think I'm still against crafting in TES games.

#

Especially with the way it was implemented in Skyrim

feral viper
#

Yeah, as it was, it was pretty terrible.

But I think a large part of that problem stems from how Equipment has been traditionally handled, both in the franchise and in RPGs more generally.

Progression is too linear, and too clear. Iron to Steel to Dwarven to Elven, and never shall you deviate.

And when you put crafting into that clear, linear progression, all you do is remove the value of rewarding players with the next step on that staircase.

pulsar root
feral viper
#

You could, if you exploited an effect loop. Without using the Potions and Enchanting to create an infinite improvement loop, every piece of equipment had an effect improvement cap.

primal olive
#

stupid question

#

can't remember where I saw it but wasn't Gelebor and Vyrthur meant to be the snow prince at first?

feral viper
#

That's not something I've ever heard. But I've been entirely absent the lore community anywhere but here for about 7 months, so it could be a new rumour.

livid ingot
#

I've never heard that either

primal olive
radiant moss
#

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Snow_Prince#Notes

Prior to the release of Dawnguard, strings pulled from Skyrim's Patch 1.5.26 indicated that a Snow Elf Prince would appear as a character. As development continued, the sideplot evolved into Gelebor and Vyrthur's stories as priests of Auri-El rather than the Prince appearing, though remnants of the character remained in the form of Vyrthur's throne and the Ancient Falmer Crown.
primal olive
radiant moss
#

np

cold minnow
#

Has anyone thought about how they could improve magic so it actually feels equivalent to melee combat?

#

I actually suggested a change to Starfield’s power system, but it would make more sense in TES

#

Basically, make concentration spells like fireball (charge up spells) could actually charge up, the longer you hold it, the more powerful (and magicka cost) it becomes

The main thing would be to make magicka regenerate at all times no matter what, so if you regen 10mp/s and use a spell that only costs 9mp/s then you can cast that spell indefinitely because you still regen 1mp/s. The secondary thing would be to get rid of timed spells, like raise zombie or stone skin, instead make them a toggle spell that has a cost per second. This would let us actually become full on necromancers, each raised zombie subtracting from magicka regen instead of a one time cost, and will last for as long as you have magicka instead of just 60 seconds

What do you guys think?

#

My reasoning is, you can always attack with normal weapons even if you have no stamina, but if you run out of magicka you can’t use magic until a second later that your magicka regenerates, but if your magicka always regenerates, low level spells won’t drain you unless their cost is greater than your regen

#

One thing that I just thought of

Charged spells should have their effects either improved or have new effects as you charge them more, like lightning bolt and chain lightning being the same spell but one is a higher charge than the other, or just simply increasing the range, damage and effect scale (like stat damage or a bigger AOE, like a bigger fireball explosion or more target jumps for chain lightning)

eager remnant
#

The first change I would make to magic mechanics is to implement spell scaling. Physical weapon damage scales with skill level so, to be consistent, spell efficacy should scale with spell school leveling.

shell trout
#

Do you play the elder scrolls online

stark flower
feral viper
#

Magic is a complicated thing, and inherently difficult to design and balance.

I think Skyrim's systems was better than what came before, but how that system ended up being utilised left it feeling very underwhelming and uninteresting.

pulsar root
#

Sure but how Magic played in Oblivion was better then how Skyrim did it(One hand spell other hand spell).

austere oasis
#

I like how magic in Oblivion could be cast while wielding a weapon and shield it should be its own subgroup of casting compared to Skyrims form of spells

#

I also think Alteration and Mysticism (I know it went away) were done better in Oblivion than Skyrim especially with spells like Lockpicking making magic on a stealth playthrough possible and interesting

feral viper
#

I'm the total opposite. I absolutely despise how Oblivion handled it, exactly because it was able to be used while holding a weapon.

Skyrim requires you to actually commit, to attach a spell directly to one of your interaction options. At least Morrowind required you to put your weapon away to use a spell, making some sort of tradeoff.

#

In Oblivion, Magic was just an always-on, X-AND magic dynamic that required absolutely zero commitment, thought or compromise.

pulsar root
austere oasis
# pulsar root Sure but I still think its better to let players who have a playstyle thats mele...

That's what I mean is there should be both systems available it doesn't hurt to do it either just makes more unique playstyles possible like Spellswords in Skyrim you have to sacrifice the ability to block to cast magic but if oblivion style spells were also available you could still cast magic without swapping between a shield and a spell or sword and spell for balance the oblivion style spells could even be weaker in comparison since they're a quicker cast

#

Then there's Touch Spells which are pretty cool and different themselves although a little janky feeling in Oblivion, could be brought back for some spells like Minor Lockpicking

#

Besides the way spells work as a combat mechanic I'd like to see more Spell Combinations with special effects for doing so and ways to make our own combined special effect spells it'd make magic more fun to play with than the same spellbooks every playthrough Oblivion let you make your own spells but Oblivion spell effects aren't as cool as Skyrims are

brisk plank
#

I think one of the things people tend to forget (or just aren't aware of) is that in TES's world there is spellcasting via incantations / invocations. In-world that is/was more or less how scrolls work; in Morrowind, for example, scrolls contain an inscription the user is implied to speak aloud to cause it to activate (though the actual text within is in daedric lettering and the English translation of it sometimes leaves a bit to be desired).

Using that as the basis for changing scrolls to be equipped to the voice slot and/or adding voice-slot-equippable variants of spells is a no-brainer, as a result, in my opinion. It provides a nice middle-ground option to let people have oblivion-esqe spellcasting while using weapons and shields without making spellcasting with your hands obsolete, particularly if incantation spells are weaker than regular spells and/or cost more magicka to cast as the trade-off. In a way, it's like having lesser versions of shouts. sakurajuicebox

#

Oh, and there's also that you don't have the option of dual-casting an incanted spell, either, so you lose out on that power boost as well.

feral viper
#

That's the problem. Oblivion let you do everything, all the time, with absolutely no consequences or decision-making.

And yet, people say SKYRIM is the Jack of All Trades game.

tardy tiger
#

Oblivion's also the game where you don't want to level up.

Though Oblivion's also got that weird thing that I think debuffs your spells for not wearing mage gear.

feral viper
#

IMO, Oblivion did absolutely nothing correct, and I don't want to dig into all of the details of that.

My point being, you can still play Combat Mages, Battlemages, Spellswords, etc. in Skyrim. They not just require you to actively make compromises, rather than just being able to do everything at once.

#

Which is kind of what people generally WANT in an RPG. Except, of course, when it forces them to compromise on their particular build or playstyle.

tardy tiger
#

I actually prefer skyrims due to its animations just the balance lets it down. I've been meaning to find a mod to try and fix it without going into mods that add more spells.

feral viper
#

Yeah, magic in Skyrim still has a lot of problems. It's dismissively weak, basically relying on exploiting Stagger to even be viable last about level 20, and while how it systematically assembles spells is vastly superior, there simply aren't enough spell variables to make it interesting.

Also, whoever came up with Transmute should hang their head in shame. The amount of economic problems that spell introduces were not at all worth the novelty

tardy tiger
#

Could be worse. Could be portals.

feral viper
#

ESOs use of portals is just...

Ugh.

#

Like, I swear, no one writing this stuff has any idea how travel or economies work or how these things would impact the wider world.

It's all just 'Hehee, Mamjik!'

tardy tiger
#

Goes back to TES3 if I recall due to the Mages Guild's travel service. Which is like never explained. It's just there and no one really talks of it.

feral viper
#

Now, that said, I do think Skyrim's hand-linked spellcasting is the best foundation to build off. It's not good AS-IS, but like many things in Skyrim is a good foundation to expand on.

#

Up to and including the ability to craft new spell variants, and cast spells with verbal incantation rather than somatic gestures. Ie, not needing your hands.

#

Because I do think that should be an option. But it's an option you have to build to, not the default interaction.

heavy heron
#

maybe im lookign too much into it but i assume with the contest announcement does that mean tes 6 is close to being fully worked on

livid ingot
#

Since around the release of Starfield. We even got official confirmation, iirc

last dew
#

Really wish they make a TESVI suggestion channel.

heavy heron
#

wonder how far they gotten

livid ingot
primal olive
#

I hate that whoever wins the character thing is gonna make some boring Nord or something

livid ingot
#

Personally though if I had the money I would request a Sload or maybe an Imga

#

Get my money's worth by having Beth make an entirely new model and animations

austere oasis
#

It's a Make a Wish contest first and a character second heart should be in the right place

nimble pond
nimble pond
livid ingot
livid ingot
#

By bidding you could always just do it on behalf of somebody else who would be extremely happy to be 'immortalized' in the game.

#

It's a good cause and all. I just don't have anywhere near a spare $1000 to cast a bid.

#

Oh snap, it's already up to 11,000!

feral viper
austere oasis
hoary remnant
primal olive
#

wait I should do an icey Altmer run

hoary remnant
#

BGS games are the best:
I’m doing a Side quest then i see the Headless horseman in the distance. I chase him down on foot until a Dragon almost lands on my head. I’m about to die until a giant spider comes out of nowhere and helps me kill the Dragon, just to turn on me in the end. After everything is dead, i postpone the quest to explore a town in the distance.

feral viper
#

The ADHD variety show that these games often become is part of the charm.

#

Like, you just can't get that sort of chaos elsewhere.

wide garnet
#

@feral viper

feral viper
wide garnet
feral viper
#

The chaotic way things can happen in Bethesda games..

#

In this case, it's not a criticism. It's a feature, not a bug.

last dew
#

TESVI suggestion: Spears. We get to use melee spears like Morrowind that has been a missing playable weapon type since then. Let's have spears again.

noble verge
#

I agree, more weapon types would be great.

#

Not just spears, I'd also like to see poleaxe/halberd type polearms too.

feral viper
#

I agree in concept, though like many things I think the practice is more complicated.

Combat in TES is not good. And while I would love to have more weapons, more for the sake of more doesn't address the core problems.

noble verge
#

One suggestion at a time.

#

Combat does need to be revamped, and the addition of new weapon types is just one facet of making it better.

feral viper
#

Of course. And in the case of priorities, a decent combat dynamic takes precedence over another flavour of generic best stick that just looks different.

#

Shattered Space really highlighted that Bethesda needs to re-examine combat from the ground up. Because as it stands, it's uninteresting, lacking dynamic variability, and just devolves into a one dimensional Numbers Game against HP-Sponge enemies.

#

Now, I don't say this to say I don't want Spears.

I can think of several combat models where Spears could be fantastic.

But we also need to keep in mind that we're talking about a product here, that requires time management and priorities.

#

If Bethesda isn't going to fix the terrible combat in the games, then by all means, give me Spears.

But I'd rather put spears off for awhile, if it means better combat in general.

noble verge
#

A decade and a half is more than enough reasonable time for a studio like Bethesda to have their cake and eat it too.

feral viper
#

And yet... Shattered Space.

noble verge
#

I didn't mean to imply that they actually would.

#

But look at Shadow of the Erdtree- Fromsoft was able to add several new weapon types with all-new animations, all in a DLC.

#

It's clearly not infeasible.

#

Just highly unlikely for Bethesda to do it.

feral viper
#

That's fair. I generally prefer not to just wishlist, but set more reasonable expectations, but I can accept the other side of that.

nimble pond
#

What animal/creature predators would you like to be hunted by? Skyrim had like wolves, bears, trolls, and I don't think there were any flying predators besides dragons? So what would you like to see going forward?

Since I generally see most people discussing those HR & HF, what kinda creatures/animals do you see wanna see in those environment types, desert and mountainous coasts.

livid ingot
nimble pond
#

That makes me think of antlions and their pitfall traps, except these would be large enough to eat you. That and swarms of flesh-eating scarab beetles.

livid ingot
#

Antlions are a cool idea, not entirely sure how they could imitate the pit traps in gameplay. Pits can obviously easily be avoided and the Beth games are notorious for the player being able to run up sheer cliffs on horseback. I could see it more being a dungeon enemy, where maybe the ground constantly drags you toward it. Gives a tactical instance to use Levitate

nimble pond
#

Maybe illusion? Slope looks like just normal terrain at first, then you start sinking..

livid ingot
# nimble pond Maybe illusion? Slope looks like just normal terrain at first, then you start si...

Speaking of Illusion, another enemy that I kinda want to see is the ghul or ghoul. While they are the primary inspiration behind the modern zombie; in Arabic folklore they were shapeshifters - sometimes luring people to their doom by mimicking voices or the appearance of people. I could see encounters where the player hears a child or someone calling for help, and upon approaching the person the illusion is dispelled and the player gets ambushed by multiple ghouls.

feral viper
#

I haven't exactly made a secret of my growing disdain for the worldbuilding, art and inspirations found in TES as a setting. So rather than talk about what I expect I'll change tact and just wishlist...

#

I want to see more 'exotic' creatures thrown into the mix, ones that serve to blend real world traditions and mythologies to create something unique, rather than just adopt one dimensional influences.

Assuming Hammerfell, include more east-asian ideas into the mix.

#

Like, a desert Manananggal, which lure people in by claiming to be trapped in the sand and then ripping its torso free of its buried legs to chase after you.

A goblin-ken variant inspired by the Kappre, who like to sneak into villages at night and scare people, but are generally harmless.

A predatory shape-shifter like a Kumhio or Kitsune, which lures people into the steppes before transforming into a fox-monster to consume them.

Make the tropical islands inhabited by Spriggan-variants inspired by the Maori Hākuturi, more aggressive versions of forest Guardians that protect the few verdant regions in Hammerfell..

#

Give Hammerfell a blend of East Asian, Middle Eastern, and Andean influences. Rather than just making it a one dimensional Arabian Nights setting..

livid ingot
idle peak
#

Asking here too

Hey, I know this is dumb to ask but does anyone in this server work for Bethesda specifically? If so please dm me because I have a question

I am trying to audition for a voice acting role possibly for the Elder Scrolls 6

Let me know!

nocturne stone
idle peak
nimble pond
onyx flare
#

What Skyrim DLC is y'all's favourite I would love to know 😊

glass marlin
#

Does the Creation Club count? If not, Dragonborn.

eager remnant
#

I guess I'd vote for Dragonborn as well.

nimble pond
#

Even tho it didn't really feel like a DLC, I liked Hearthfire first bc I like customizing & tinkering with everything and then Dawnguard 2nd just because I'm a horror junkie.

glass marlin
#

So which Daedric Prince do you want to see as a "center" for ES6 (following the trend from Morrowind onward)? We've had:
ES3: Azura (base game), Hircine (Bloodmoon)
ES4: Mehrunes Dagon (base game), Sheogorath/Jyggalag (Shivering Isles)
ES5: Molag Bal (Dawnguard sort of), Hermaous Mora (Dragonborn)

nimble pond
#

Honestly don't care, I'd kill them if possible. Make a special soul gem out of them.

But if I had to guess who will emerge as one of the more focused upon Princes for the next game, I would say Malacath could be one of them.

glass marlin
#

Yea I was thinking Malacath too. Poor guy has had it bad for too long.

opaque ingot
#

Malacath

#

Volendrung fell on volenfell assuming it’s hammerfell, and orsinium is in hammerfell now

hidden herald
#

Orsinium is in Wrothgar, northeast of the rest of High Rock I think.

opaque ingot
#

Well technically the newest orsinium is between skyrim and hammerfell

feral viper
magic dew
#

Do we think they make Molag Bal even hotter in TES:6?

feral viper
#

Though, considering I actually like ALL the princes in some way, I'd rather it focus on the Aedra and how absolutely useless they are, and how their religion is a worthless farce

feral viper
night violet
#

For those on Twitter (X), the Unoffical Elder Scrolls page is trying to get a NPC added to TES VI to honor a TES fan who passed away while waiting for TES VI. Check out their post and give it some likes please.

noble verge
delicate ledge
#

For ES6's mages guild/mg equivalent, I think the archmage position should be a figure head deal, and the actual Archmage is an Alfiq who needs a humanoid to act as their proxy. And you being a daring adventurer who can easily deal with any physical issues makes you the perfect patsy.

It's a way to let you become the archmage in a believable way that doesn't involve subverting the entire structure of the organization.

Like, I love the Mages Guild, but I just broke out of prison like two weeks ago. Travern is off his rocker to name me his successor. It's a little immersion breaking (not a whole lot, but I can see how some might find it a bit ridiculous).

opaque ingot
#

My issue was traven is he is just used as a sacrifice to stop mannimarco from instayeeting your soul. Also, I want more significant Breton mages and him doing that just doesn’t do it for me.

#

I want a fyr or shalidor level breton mage, which is why I really want gyron vardengroet depicted as he was established way back in daggerfall

feral viper
#

The way factions have generally been handled has been pretty... Slapshod.

At their core, a big problem with them lies in the entire path being to make you the leader. Which isn't it's self bad, except that being the leader is basically worthless. There's no new interactions, no real mechanical engagement, no actual LEADERSHIP... It's just a pat on the butt and some shiny loot, then you're off on your next adventure.

This compounds with generally poor stories, terrible characters, inconsistent pacing, and sometimes utter nonsense to create not particularly great questlines.

#

Starfield, to its credit, improved on this formula by keeping the faction stories contained and more down to earth, with none of them really resulting in any sort of leadership position, and could serve as a decent template for future factions in TES, but...

I actually think there's another core problem with the Factions in TES specifically that goes beyond the barren mechanical value.

#

They lack any real identity.

#

The standard Guilds are a clunky merger of trope-driven archetypes and flimsy attempts at worldbuilding real organisations (and utterly failing) while Skyrim's more regional counterparts totally lack any sort of engagement and focus.

The College of Winterhold is... Well, it starts off as Hogwarts and then devolves into Umbrella Corp.

The Companions are heroic monster hunters who never hunt monsters, and never do anything heroic.

The Thieves Guid is... Well... Actually a Thieves Guild instead of Robin Hood, but so terrible at their jobs that they need a magic patron to make them competent.

slate shale
#

Hmmm… what was his name again?

#

Gaudius bile? Or was it Laudius Dile?

#

Oh i remember it is Claudius Vile

eager remnant
slate shale
feral viper
#

Technically, Barbas and Vile are the same entity. Just different facets of it.

slate shale
#

You could fit everything we know about him on a post-it note

feral viper
#

In general, I have a lot of problems with how the Princes have been handled over the years.

Their handling has been very Western Abrahamic. They're treated as capricious and often outright malicious demons you make pacts with, who are always trying to short change you or manipulate you.

They should be handled more like any number of Pagan gods, from the Classical Pantheons to the Celtic wild-gods, to the great-spirits of a wide array of tribal societies..

#

The Aedra really suffer from the same thing.

They went from a pantheistic classical structure in Morrowind and Daggerfall, to an almost Catholic Saints structure in Oblivion and onward.

slate shale
feral viper
#

Somewhat ironically, Mora, the most Lovecraftian in appearance, is the least Lovecraftian in concept.

#

But I think that stems from a lot of people simply not understanding Lovecraftian Horror.

#

Really, Bal is probably the most Lovecraftian, bordering on Nyralothotep in both attitude and interaction.

slate shale
feral viper
#

He is cruel and delights in tormenting those beneath him, though respects shows of power. Not because they present an actual threat, but more because they instill a confidence in mortals that is delightful to dismantle later.

slate shale
feral viper
#

Bal, and being more like Nyarlathotep.

#

Nyar is an outlier in Lovecraft though, in that he is deliberately malicious and cruel, and his reflection on the wider themes relates to how everyone is powerless to do anything about him. He just gets to torture and abuse mortals and we can't do Jack squat about it.

#

Because the core of Lovecraftian Horror is the utter futile powerlessness of Man. We don't matter. Nothing we ever do, nothing we ever accomplish, will matter.

We are so beyond worthless that the beings that DO matter don't really even notice us. And the irony is, that lack of notice is what has kept us safe.

slate shale
#

An interesting series of books that covers some of the themes found in Lovecraft’s work is The Laundry Files series by Charles Stross,they are a great read

feral viper
#

I will have to check them out.

While I do not condone Lovecraft's attitudes on many topics, I adore his body of work and it's expression as, really, the most recent Mythology we have developed in a natural way.

It's a still living tapestry that highlights so many aspects of how we, as human beings, create these mythologies and the religions that surround them.

#

But, as much as I would love to see more such influences in general, I don't think they are universally applicable.

The Princes Aren't Old Ones. They are Gods, in a classical sense. They are interested in, and engage with, mortals on a regular basis.

#

They aren't entities beyond notice or concern, who have no cause or concern for interacting with Mortals.

They're less like Shub and Cthulhu, and more like Appollo and Anubis.

low stream
#

Felt like playing elder scrolls 5 again….might delete later…

feral viper
#

To playing.

primal olive
#

on one hand passives don't really matter for most builds, on the other, I wish all races had more beneficial ones like ESO

low stream
primal olive
delicate ledge
primal olive
#

we don't need a daedra center, Skyrim was aedric and High Isle of ESO was people

primal olive
#

I'm going to go into yngols barrow, grab that fetching helmet and throw it into the sea

primal olive
#

People born of hatred, bloodlust, repeating this evil time and time again

#

glorifying their slaughter of innocent, so casually mentioning the dismemberment of their captured enemies

#

game plan, go kill yngols shade, take his hat, throw it in the sea and mock his death

#

(me saying this and immediately paying for a room in the inn because its polite to)

primal olive
#

I shall go to Winterhold, where the Atmorans landed; and throw away their honored war gear into the sea that took Yngol

#

I shall fashion him into a frost enchantment upon elven boots, so that every step is a reminder of elven revenge upon the souls of the atmorans

timid drum
feral viper
#

For the record, I though High Isle was the absolute worst DLC ESO has released as well.

Which is saying something, since it's not even the one that led me to quit.

#

Though I'm about as sick and tired of generic low-fantasy as I am of over powered anime protagonists, so I'm clearly no longer the target audience.

feral viper
vocal fiber
#

I just want elder scrolls six before I die. Only game I'm looking forward to. If it flops I'm done with Bethesda. Been a fan for years but recently I'm in doubt of Bethesda ability.

pulsar root
feral viper
#

Ultimately, Bethesda has not changed. If you're doubting their ability now, you should have doubted it all along.

#

Don't get me wrong, I spend a great deal of time here criticising Bethesda and the things I think they do wrong.

But these aren't new problems. They aren't indicative of any decline in quality or lackluster effort on Bethesda's part.

If anything, they show that Bethesda doesn't learn from its past mistakes. And why should it, when it's games continue to be huge successes.

Quality doesn't matter to a company, only money does. And Bethesda keeps raking it in. Even if quality had slipped (which again, it HAS NOT) it's irrelevant if your making more sales.

vocal fiber
primal olive
#

go play age of sigmar if you need the divines that bad smh /lighthearted

feral viper
feral viper
pulsar root
#

I don't think the bethesda community is really united on "Quality gone down" In mind that people aren't always reasonable outrage is the name of the game these days,(Even before social media turned it into a mulchfest).

primal olive
primal olive
feral viper
#

I've given up on Bethesda's worlds, stories, and characters. But the GAMES themselves still have value.

feral viper
#

We just have more to compare them to now, so the problems are more obvious.

vocal fiber
primal olive
#

but it's funny that you can soul trap him and he's just a lesser soul

feral viper
primal olive
#

oh wait nvm threw it into the sea of ghosts

vocal fiber
primal olive
#

I don't really have criticisms on the top of my head

#

I have criticisms for ESO, but they want you to use the forums you have to get an account for and that's too much a hassle

pulsar root
#

I already gave my criticisms at least for ES but its something that I've said more then a few times. No need to regurgitate the same one(This is of course if Bethesda does the same thing again then I'll say it).

feral viper
#

New faces do sometimes show up, so sometimes they do require some regurgitation.

#

Now that I have a moment though, I can be more precise. I'll start with the negative so I can end on a higher note instead of just being a Debbie Downer.

#

Now, as I have said, I don't think the TES setting is salvageable for me. Morrowind was a fluke, and with no evidence that it can be recreated or that they even WANT to recreate it, I'm tapped out. I don't care anymore, and even worse, I actively dislike TES as a setting now.

#

The GAMES though, are an entirely different beast. While the TES games still have plenty of problems, Skyrim also remains the best foundation, in my opinion, for a truely revolutionary, genre defining RPG.

TES just needs to overcome some long running problems that Bethesda has exhibited for decades.

#

Those problems include Balance: Bethesda games are about as well balanced as a landslide. That's just a fact. And it's not just about being Hard or Easy, it's about whether or not different approaches of gameplay elements are even worth engaging with (Skyrim Magic) and whether or not the attempt to present a challenge simply crosses over into tedium (Starfield's combat).

#

The second issue is Polish. Whether it's because of unfocused leadership, too many things in the table, the generally massive scope, poor time management, or a hundred other possible reasons, Bethesda games have always lacked Polish. Even great ideas (Skyrim's Perks or Starfield's Persuasion) can seem bad if they're not refined and shined up enough to show off their potential.

#

The third major issue which has plagued Bethesda games since at least Daggerfall, is stability. This isn't something I can directly comment to, given that I'm not a programmer, but Bethesda has never, once, released a stable, remotely bug free game.

This is a double edged sword, since it means anyone who complains about bugs clearly hasn't been paying attention for 30 years, but it also shows that there are some serious issues with how things are put together on the back end.

How to fix it? I have no idea. But it IS a long running problem.

#

On the flip side, Bethesda has 3 major advantages that really don't pop up much elsewhere in the industry.

#

The first is sheer breadth. Even when you look at directly competing products, Bethesda's games simply do MORE. There is a reason why Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind continue to sell and be played, and that's because even now, in 2025 it's almost impossible to find any other RPG that gives you the freedom and range a Bethesda game does.

#

A second major strength is, despite all their problems in execution, Bethesda DOES innovate. They're not afraid to try new solutions to old problems, and mix things up.

#

The third strength Bethesda shows, consistently, is the almost magical ability to make even the Jank, fun.

Their games are cobbled together spiderwebs of nonsense half the time. But they're still ENJOYABLE, despite often being barely functional.

If Bethesda were to release a balanced, polished and stable game, while keeping the enjoyment factor, we wouldn't even be discussing whether there's been a decline, or whether or not they care, or if it's a flop, or whatever .

Because it would indisputably be one of the greatest games ever made.

#

I think its rather telling that, despite my growing disdain for the setting, I still have Skyrim installed, and still play it.

Because even WITH the problems, Bethesda still manages to craft some kind of magic that's difficult to really quantify.

And to date, I think Skyrim is still the best example of that, and the best foundation to build off going forward.

dense trail
#

I was hoping someone could help me. I recently built a retro windows 95 machine to play old games on, and I was trying to find a copy of The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard that would work for an older PC. Could you point me in the right direction?

weary frigate
#

Because it's $2.39 on GOG, But if you want a more classy feeling of a CD, buying the full box will cost over $300. If you just want the CD then it's about $15

radiant moss
# dense trail I was hoping someone could help me. I recently built a retro windows 95 machine ...

Redguard hasn't been "updated" like DOOM or whatnot and still runs the same on older PCs. If you get a digital copy (if you get the Glide version you'll need a PCIe card with Glide support) then just burn it to a CD and it might be fine? Or move it to the target PC using something, you might need to edit a config file to trick the game the CD's installed at all times like how we still have to mount a "disc" in DOSBox Staging to get the game to work.

feral viper
#

You can get Redguard both in Steam, and GoG.

While I am loathe to recommend GoG for any reason, it would probably be the easiest way to get the game legally (and you should always get games legally) and transfer it to a media you can then move to your 95 machine.

feral viper
weary frigate
feral viper
#

Hmm hmm... Pretty sure I have the manual somewhere...

#

I jest, I'd never sell it.

sturdy sinew
#

who else is excited for tesvi? 😎

eager remnant
primal olive
pseudo dragon
#

It'll be yet another reason to try and finally upgrade to a next gen console

sturdy sinew
eager remnant
sturdy sinew
#

i wonder who was the person to spend $85K on the auction to make a TESVI NPC

sturdy sinew
primal olive
#

people who have that kind of money tend to be blankets

sturdy sinew
#

i hope its a follower or someone important and not just some person you walk by in a town

austere oasis
timid drum
#

I wish I could

pseudo dragon
#

I still need to try Morrowind

#

It seems like a really cool place to explore

primal olive
pseudo dragon
#

It's kind of overwhelming how much there is

austere oasis
# timid drum I wish I could

If you leave the game for about a year you can give your brain enough time to forget enough of the game to sort of experience the game again but it's not quite the same as the first time

timid drum
#

Suppose so, unless it's your comfort/hyperfixiation game lol

nimble pond
#

Sea floors in TES are quite dead in comparison to real life. Was just imagining how much life could be put there to experience and explore. Missing an entire ecosystem! Having both the land and seafloors would be a dream.

primal olive
#

hopefully TES6 has better character creation

#

cuz I don't wanna make a dark elf who looks like he smokes more than the natives in Vvardenfell lol

radiant moss
#

i mean, to be fair the air in Morrowind is like 76% ash in Skyrim...

primal olive
#

stupid question; are those of the family Sero related to house Sadras?

feral viper
#

Unknown, as we have no lore about Sadras beyond their existence

nimble pond
#

I wish in some of the character creation options, our bodies could.. glow? Maybe let Argonians adjust their color as needed to blend into various environments for camouflage.

feral viper
#

Black Desert, and EvE, still have the best character creation systems I have ever used.

#

EvE being a weird outlier, since you can design your character but the game it's self is almost exclusively from ship view, so you practically never see yourself.

pulsar root
#

Dark Elves are still Grey most of the time right?

feral viper
#

Depends on the source. They're typically described as having skin the colour of Ash, or Bruise.

Problem being, Ash and Bruise are multihued tones that depend on a lot of things.

#

They generally seem to fit into a general monochrome, with some shades into the Teal or Violet spectrum.

#

Morrowind and Oblivion's Dunmer are decidedly teal. Daggerfall and Skyrim are more dark greyscale. ESOs are more into the purple tones.

#

For the record, Ash tends to run Teal, Brown or Purple, though highly desaturated almost to greyscale.

Bruise tends to run Red to purple to brown, depending on how old the bruising is.

feral viper
#

Somewhat comedically, the Dunmer are clearly inspired by the Drow. The Drow, classically, have 'dark' skin but have also been described as having skin the colour of Obsidian.

Obsidian, it's self, is ALSO multihued and dependent entirely on the minerals in it. It can run from Red to Teal, Brown to Green, and even full on Rainbow.

So by that logic, you could actually have a rainbow Drow, because writers are bad a describing things.

primal olive
feral viper
#

I think largely because we can safely assume they took the Hlaalu place on the overall tropes.

But Dunmer as a whole are sneaky. Their entire social hierarchy is predicated on shadow warfare. You wouldn't survive as a Great House unless you use spies and assassins.

#

nevermind, scrap that. I need to get better at not taking the opportunity to drag the lore or writing.

winter sleet
#

Is Elder Scrolls Online worth it?

brisk plank
#

A lot of people made the mistake of thinking it would be Skyrim and got upset when it wasn't, and unfairly denegrated what is otherwise a pretty good game.

#

At least, that was my take on it the few times I got to try it out. I've never had the time or money to invest in it in the years since then for a full playthrough so I can't say how it has changed over the years but I presume it likely got better over time as opposed to worse.

winter sleet
eager remnant
# winter sleet Is Elder Scrolls Online worth it?

I too say, "Yes." Elder Scrolls Online is my 3rd favorite Elder Scrolls game (behind Morrowind and Skyrim). I play it as a single-player game. To me, other players are simply NPCs with unpredictable AI. I like its gameplay, art style, writing, and its freedom to (within certain constraints) be who we want, go where we want, when we want, as in the single-player games.

#

But your best bet is to watch a few Let's Plays on YouTube and decide if the game appeals to you.

nimble pond
timid drum
#

Huh that's cool

feral viper
#

I agree with that post entirely.

However, it's also worth noting that what we call 'Fast Travel' in TES is about as accurate as calling LLMs AI.

wide garnet
feral viper
#

More accurately, it would be called Automated Travel, but that's not entirely important.

The biggest issue with it has always been that when it was implemented, we lost alternatives. Oblivion has no travel hubs, and Skyrim only has carriages which go to the Hold Capitals (am improvement, but not functional in general gameplay).

So you ultimately have no choice BUT to use the travel system, or waste large amounts of time traveling.

#

Morrowind used a lot of extra tricks to make it's world SEEM bigger than it actually was.

And it's somewhat noteworthy when you consider the fact that Morrowind still feels bigger than Starfield.

Despite the fact Starfield is orders of magnitude bigger.

livid ingot
# feral viper More accurately, it would be called Automated Travel, but that's not entirely im...

The issue in Skyrim is that the game was obviously designed with fast travel in mind. Quest objectives are frequently quite distant from where they are assigned, making playing the game without fast travel quite a bit more tedious than need be.
Just bringing that up because that's why I think the carriage system fails in Skyrim. Not due to any fault of their own but just that it exists in a game that wasn't designed for it.

feral viper
#

Oh absolutely. It's an improvement over Oblivion's total lack of anything. But only in a technical sense. It's still basically useless outside of the first 30 minutes of the game.

pulsar root
#

Fast travel still does not bother me, I think its a fine system. I don't think you should be able to fast travel to a location you haven't discovered thou

slate shale
potent shadow
#

Oh! In the next game, if there is sailing, there should be a remote island you can sail to, and when you get there, it turns out there is a prehistoric tribe that captures you and imprisons you. You have to escape, but you find the secret of the tribe--a power source unbeknownst to the world, and a power that is yet harnessed in full because the tribe is too primitive to understand it. There should also be a tribe of Monks in High Rock, a society dedicated to liberation from suffering through the power of Magicka

#

OH!! And I should be in the game

feral viper
#

Based on TES more generally, the older, more primitive the society, the BETTER suited they are to harnessing ancient power.

Because all the current civilisations are dumb as bricks.

potent shadow
#

If this actually happened I’d probably crap myself in surrealism

pulsar root
#

Just because you can wield ancient power, doesn't mean you should.

primal olive
#

I wonder if House Sero is part of Dres, Sadras, or something else

nimble pond
#

I think it would be cool to have a touch screen map without pause menu. What I mean is you have the parchment and ink or even more detailed in graphics then that. But when you open it in your hands you can control your players finger with joystick and tapping a button pushes down on the map and zooms in. Could have 3 different zoom levels. Magic could be it's explanation. The point being to get rid of the immersion loss to access map in a game menu.

noble verge
# pulsar root Just because you can wield ancient power, doesn't mean you should.

Pretty much. The Dwemer's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan caused their entire race to vanish, and the Chimer's meddling with the Heart resulted in centuries of Vvardenfell being gradually corrupted from within until the Nerevarine stopped it. The Alessians caused a thousand year long dragon break. The Second Empire's attempt to harness the Amulet of Kings resulted in an invasion by Coldharbour.

feral viper
#

Power exists to be used. The problem isn't the power, but the people drawn to it.

#

As Muad'dib would say...

#

It is not that power corrupts, it is that power attracts the corruptible.

primal olive
pulsar root
#

I suppose if the Heart of Lorkhan when first researched had very scary effects the first time its messed with. Its best to just... lock it away somewhere(I assume it can't be destroyed).

primal olive
#

ngl biggest lore change id do is make the snow elves less victims than they are

#

cuz it makes the Atmorans outright genocidal lol

inland shale
#

How about a concept art teaser for TESVI, Bethesda? The silence is deafeaning Khajiit

feral viper
#

The Tribunal tapped into it with literally no downsides. The problem came from the fact that someone ELSE also tapped into it, and their egos prevented them from dealing with the problem, because it would require them to sacrifice their own power

glass marlin
#

Probably not the brightest idea to throw Lorkhan's heart into Nirn.

small sage
#

look the atmorans are justified

#

snow elves tried to wipe them out, so they got revenge on the snow elves. I know if something tries to kill me I will do my best to kill it first.

#

genocide is wrong no matter which side does it. Remember, the snow elves had attacked the only settlement the atmorans had and wiped out all but ysgrammor and his sons.

#

and remember, the snow elves could have faced the atmorans and died in combat. instead they accepted torture and blindness from the dwemer which is a fate worse then death

#

honestly I pity the snow elves, they were so desperate to survive that they did.

glass marlin
#

Damn snow people from that continent up north.

small sage
#

I know right? ebil hoomans

#

hmm....

#

I am thinking about renaming myself into khajiit, but I dont wanna snort moon sugar everyday

#

Khajiit has wares if one has coin

pulsar root
#

Rename Snow Elves

small sage
#

snow elves are stinky

#

all that white skin and blue eyes, it's bad

#

besides I whole heartedly agree with master neloth's youtube video on how the snow elves became giants

#

because snow elves and giants look alike.

primal olive
#

another day another me wanting more snow elves

primal olive
primal olive
small sage
#

well according to the lore of the atmorans, the giants came with them

primal olive
small sage
#

well the nordic stories is the giants and atmorans both came from atmora but were originally part of skyrim as they left it originally

#

and why they flourish so well there

primal olive
#

that's just the atmoran excuse to justify conquering mereth

feral viper
#

Giants look sorta like Mer because they are closer to the Ehlnofey than Men are. And the Mer have generally kept more Ehlnofex characteristics in their phenotypes.

#

So Giants are more like cousins to the Aldmer, not that any Mer became Giants.

#

Unless they've gone and changed THAT too

nimble pond
#

So Yokuda is basically Atlantis? Underwater city exploration dlc?

tardy tiger
#

Well parts of it is underwater. Some of it never sunk

nimble pond
#

Well, city part?

feral viper
#

Nah, Aldmeris is Atlantis.

#

Which is to say, made up and never existed.

nimble pond
#

Tamriel exists! 🤫

hidden herald
#

Thras is probably closer to Atlantis

feral viper
#

Nah.

Atlantis, per the Dialogues, was a vast and powerful state who ruled an Empire that had conquered the world (except for Athens).

It was actually a fabricated analogy for Sparta following Athens' defeat during the Peloponnesian War.

But it's core concept was a highly developed culture and stratified state struck low by divine wrath for their own hubris.

#

Both Yokuda and Aldmeris have influences from Plato's story. Thras, less so.

eager remnant
#

It's possible. By 2026 Bethesda will have been working on TES 6 full-time for three years. Is it probable? No one knows.

#

It is my impression that they don't begin full-time work on DLC for a game until a game has gone gold. But that is just an educated guess on my part, having observed their working methods for a few decades.

opaque ingot
#

I dont think it’s good to start work on dlcs yet. They probably have an idea on what they want to do already

#

The past 3 tes games had a daedric princ involved in one of their expansions, so I’m guessing there will be a malacath related one seeing volendrung fell in hammerfell and orsinium is in close proximity to hammerfell. Though the province it will take place yet hasn’t been officially announced

opaque ingot
#

Id like to think they are aiming for 11/11/26 to have it 15 years after skyrim

livid ingot
#

Pre-production is just planning basically.

#

So they probably had plans for the game going back further than 2018

#

Pre-production could stretch back to 2012, wouldn't make much of a difference

wheat hollow
livid ingot
opaque ingot
#

I like to think with grandma Shirley being scanned long ago and that npc charity npc being made recently, they are somewhere in the middle of production

livid ingot
#

And the concept art of this time is going to be atmospheric, thematic... trying to establish a look and feel for the game that can guide it's production

wheat hollow
wheat hollow
#

Also on the subject of music, it’s more than just contracted composers who work on it. Sound direction is a huge part of game design so there would be plenty of people in the studio who would work alongside the composer (Inon Zur most likely) to make sure the feel of the music is right, and find places to properly integrate it into the game.

livid ingot
#

In which case, sure. But in a case like that we're not really thinking 2018 but something like the last year or so of Starfield's development

#

And, yes, I agree on the music aspect

feral viper
#

You need to start Engine Upgrades during the concept phase, as you lay the groundwork for what you WANT to do. The worst thing you can do is invest time on the design, only to find out half way through that you simply can't execute on something you planned and have wasted 2 years of work.

So you want to start the engine upgrades while working on concept, so you can identify potential problems really enough to not waste months of effort.

#

Optimistically, we MAY see TES6 in Q4 2026. I wouldn't personally expect it until Q4 2027 though.

#

DLC for it will depend on the reception. If it's as bad as for Starfield, expect them to delay the first DLC until almost a full year after the initial release.

If reception is good, you may see DLC within 6 months of release.

feral viper
#

We don't actually know. If the next console generation is announced I. 2026, then I expect TES6 as a launch title for the next.

If not, then it will probably be on the Series X.

nimble pond
#

Hmm.. Hog Hunter reminds me of someone 🤔

midnight stag
livid ingot
# feral viper You need to start Engine Upgrades during the concept phase, as you lay the groun...

Why wouldn't you just consider those upgrades you make to the engine a part of your current production? If you're upgrading Starfield's engine while working on Starfield, TES: VI will benefit from those upgrades. But does that mean it's TES: VI pre-production? You'd have to put a freeze on any new features for Starfield's engine in order to prepare for launch. Then any new features could be described as pre-production for TES:VI because they aren't going to publish with Starfield.

feral viper
#

Pre-production is a nebulous term across the industry that covers a wide range of activities, depending on the studio in question. It can be anything from raw concept and brain storming, to tech demos, to the ubiquitous 'vertical slice'.

So a lot of it's going to depend on exactly what the particular studio means when it's using generalised industry lingo.

livid ingot
#

Yeah that's completely fair.

feral viper
#

You know, I think the general offense amongst some portions of the Japanese Descent gaming population regarding AC Shadows makes another fantastic case for not using mono-source or overly telegraphed influences in fiction.

#

Then again, Ubisoft keeps claiming that they strive for historical accuracy in a setting about an ancient super race that genetically engineered Humans and then we're wipe out by a checks notes solar flare that left no detectable impact on Earth's biosphere... And apparently people keep buying the 'Historical Accuracy' line.

#

Anyway, to get back to my point...

Oblivion and Skyrim were too one dimensional. It was too blatantly clear what the inspiration was (Medieval Europe vs VIKINGS!!!!).

#

The reason Morrowind works so well, and is still praised, is because it blends multiple real world influences to create something distinct.

It doesn't just try to copy tropes and styles, it defines it's own.

#

I may not actually have faith in the studios ability to do that anymore, but i sincerely hope to be proven wrong.

feral viper
#

Faith is the wrong word... I need to stop using that.

I may not TRUST their ability.

tribal hornet
#

I had completely forgot that ESO doesn't have smelter, chopping block, loom machine/tanning rack just to craft raw materials into usable constructable materials.

nimble pond
tribal hornet
tardy tiger
feral viper
#

Which is to say, window dressing and not much else.

#

Though I can't really blame Bethesda there, because it seems like no one actually understands either Conan or Lovecraft.

It's all memes and Arnie.

#

Like, a core aspect of Conan is the cyclic nature of civilisation, of struggle and heroism becoming prosperity and stability, becoming decadence and collapse.

Coupled with this is the aggrandizement of heroic individuals, whose actions are mythologised to become the of the next cycle.

The champions of the fall of Atlantis became the gods of the Hyborian age. And the champions of that age's end became the gods of OUR age (with specific references to Odin, Osiris and an unnamed priest of Mitra likely being the Abrahamic God).

#

Artistically though, Conan went through a stylistic shift did to the Marvel comics, which missed the narrative thrust of the stories and leaned hard into the 'Barbarian aesthetics' of art styles that many fantasy book covers used, which almost always did nothing to represent the actual characters or content.

#

Conan, for instance, USUALLY wore armour. An in fact was a strategic military commander as much as a swordsman.

#

So the links to Conan aren't really to Conan directly, but again to what pop-culture THINKS of Conan.

#

Which is all Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Not to downplay the Conan movies, which I still adore. But they're barely Conan, and... Are actually more Kull than anything...

Though Kull was still more introspective than Conan, who was himself more thoughtful than Arnold's barbarian.

#

Tangential fun fact, Aquilonia wasn't supposed to be a Rome Analogue. It was Norman France.

The name just got overly focused on due to its Latin-eqsue nature and they became Roman.

brisk plank
#

Because it contains Tamriel. penth

#

Well, you're gonna have to either make space or get a bigger drive, unfortunately. One of the biggest online games that exists containing multiple nations of land and cities and so on, it's to be expected that it's that large. TeriSip

#

According to google that's a little over 100gb right there so you're halfway to what you need without it I suppose.

#

Personally I'd probably be looking into what the laptop has in terms of available internal drive slots to maybe get say a m.2 ssd or something, and/or high speed usb slots for a decent external.

#

I ended up putting an old SATA ssd into this laptop for similar reasons.

void hull
#

hey should i get eso rn

#

i have some money in my steam wallet and im considering getting it before 3/20

void hull
#

i have the hard drive space

#

but okay

eager remnant
feral viper
#

Despite my current distaste for the setting as a whole, I still think ESO is the best game in the franchise since Morrowind.

If you're looking for story, worldbuilding and adventure, it's well worth it. The only real consideration is the fact that it's an MMO, mechanically, so plays significantly different.

glass marlin
#

I really need to get into doing ESO for its story.

feral viper
#

It's really at its best when it's being a loveletter to other TES games. Morrowind and Skyrim are fantastic.

Summerset and High isle, not so much.

fierce olive
#

...anyone rp their TES OCs on Twitter? I got two of mine on there

glass marlin
#

I have a TES OC, but I don't RP.

fierce olive
#

Ah ok

eager remnant
fierce olive
feral viper
#

Twitter was a bit of a cesspool even before 'the event'. But now, you're generally better off Discord Grouping that stuff.

#

Which is stuff I was engaged with this time last year, but since my decision to walk away from the setting and only focus on the games from a mechanical standpoint, I left all of said groups.

#

I may be able to dig up old expired invites to at least get the channel names for you though.

glass marlin
#

I'm currently finishing up my OC's profile. Her backstory and build are done. Just need to finalize the quests she does (both vanilla/CC and mod).

fierce olive
feral viper
fierce olive
primal olive
#

wrong company bro

primal olive
primal olive
#

I want to get good at art so I can make renders of snow elves, dunmer, dwemer, and other races like even bosmer or northern men

nimble pond
#

Twitter/X hah.

That's be kinda fun, a feature on Elder Scrolls where we can create and spread disinformation and then watch the chaos ensue, lol. Especially in a place like High Rock.

feral viper
#

That game already exists.

red thunder
#

Any idea on how long the NA servers will be down on Xbox?

eager remnant
sonic pelican
#

elder scrolls is what i call it when my dad watches facebook reels

nimble pond
#

I doubt it would happen, but I'd find it hilarious if Hammerfell ended up sinking just like Yokuda

molten lodge
#

Just as a fun fact, if ES6 is slated to release in 2027, the total time between the two Elder Scrolls titles will only fall one year short of eclipsing the total dev time of all the elder scrolls titles from Arena up to Skyrim

feral viper
pulsar root
#

We will see ☕

feral viper
#

I think 2027 is on the optimistic side. Possible, but unlikely..

fierce olive
#

I'll be patient

feral viper
#

One has no choice but to be patient with these things.

glass marlin
#

I'd prefer they not rush ES6.

feral viper
#

Sometimes rushing breeds innovation.

As a general rule though, rushing is bad.

magic dew
#

Do you besties think that if I asked nicely that Molag Bal would kiss me before eep?

harsh crown
magic dew
#

if bad why hot shaped?

wheat hollow
#

The king of WHAT

harsh crown
wheat hollow
#

Valid

pulsar root
#

I have no idea whats going on.

brisk plank
magic dew
tawdry lintel
#

Happy 19 years Oblivion!

livid ingot
#

It's Oblivion's birthday? Well sunnovagun

livid ingot
feral viper
#

Oblivion is now old enough to drink in Canada.

timid drum
#

Fair fair, not quite yet in America

glass marlin
#

Yeah. Morrowind is drinking quite nicely though.

midnight stag
#

I hope in es6 will basically make were beast are neutral in towns and stuff kind of like controlling the transformation like Skyrim

pulsar root
#

I don't wanna be a killjoy but I prefer they have a release date that makes sense when the game is done instead of trying to do the Skyrim esque release date.

glass marlin
#

Man it sucks ESO introduced a clan of good vampires and we'll never be able to be such a thing in mainline games. lol

midnight stag
magic dew
#

"Good" vampires are poopoo vampires
Real cuties serve molag bal 🙇‍♀️

midnight stag
#

I wonder if the guilds will come back in es6 and if anything new that hasn’t been introduced to the main line games

tawdry lintel
#

And happy 18 years of Oblivion on PS3. Remember, PS3 wasn’t even out yet when Oblivion released, letting it release on Xbox 360 for the console portion first.

midnight stag
midnight stag
#

If they do get spear skill trees in es6 great for warrior class that’s if they do

#

I’m thinking they’ll add a lot of new skill trees to es6

pulsar root
#

No need to have classes, just use the open system Skyrim has but better.

midnight stag
livid ingot
#

Throwable weapons too should come back. Spear+javelin main

feral viper
#

Ive played with Spears conceptually, and the issue that always arises is making them distinct enough to warrant inclusion.

magic dew
#

Spell crafting or I'm not interested

nimble pond
#

Speaking of crafting, it may not be much to some people, but I wish some armor came with color/dye options.

wheat hollow
#

That would be a really good inclusion. If crafting goes the way of fallout and starfield I could see it included as “skins” already exist for armors in those games

summer hearth
#

Is es6 a xbox exclusive

feral viper
feral viper
#

So adapting the crafting systems to allow for that, and even expand on it, are where you're going to see real value.

wheat hollow
#

My thinking exactly, especially if they used the skins system to implement the racial motifs from ESO giving each tier of armor several really distinct visual options.

feral viper
#

Forget several. If you take the Parts Assembly format of FO and Starfield, you could use the Part selection to pick individual styles of individual components of equipment.

Depending on how you divide things up, you could easily allow for thousands of different combinations.

#

So much delicious potential.

magic dew
#

I hope we get cool necromancy

feral viper
#

FO4s Mechanist should serve as a basis for a Necromancy Mechanic.

radiant moss
feral viper
#

The best kind of Necromancy, is body building..

magic dew
#

Just wanna do fun necromancy things, worship the Revenant, eat people, you know how it goes

feral viper
#

That is cannibalism. Not Necromancy.

magic dew
#

wha tyou don't play with your food before you eat them?

feral viper
#

TECHNICALLY, Necromancy is the communion with the dead for the purpose of predicting the future.

magic dew
#

I always saw it as a way to make your food do funny tricks

feral viper
#

Make your snacks work for you

wheat hollow
magic dew
feral viper
#

Which was a bit of a shock, since... I hate Oblivion and rarely look back at anything in it fondly. But that was great

magic dew
#

me with skyrim

feral viper
#

I don't think it's usable for EVERYTHING Necromancer. But the ability to construct a Flesh Atronach as the sort of ultimate goal has a lot of gameplay potential.

magic dew
#

I just wanna be a cute member of the Order of the Black Worm and worship Molag Bal and mannimarco 🙏

#

and actually have the Shade of the Revenant appear in game again

wheat hollow
feral viper
#

Admittedly, it took me long time to warm up to Morrowind too.

#

So I am something of a Grognard.

#

Which, it's self, is a term which ages me...

magic dew
#

Redguard >>>

feral viper
#

Grognard.

magic dew
#

I meant the game

feral viper
#

Oooh, ok. Yes. Also fantastic, if... Janky.

wheat hollow
#

Is Redguard worth checking out? I’ve always been interested by its place in the series as the sort of soft reboot point for the lore but I’ve heard mixed things about the gameplay

magic dew
#

I love it

livid ingot
#

It's janky but very much reminds me of playing games when I was a kid

#

Good story too

magic dew
#

Wild way to come out as elderly

fierce olive
#

My latest skyrim character is a Redguard that uses a Katana and I'm working on getting some samurai blades armor

feral viper
summer hearth
#

Wish we could summon more than 2 things with max conj

midnight stag
summer hearth
brisk plank
#

It requires a mod to bypass the limit. Except for the Ritual Stone.

summer hearth
#

No go then

#

Besides im stuck with the ps5 version bc i dont have a pc or laptop with the ability to run skyrim (and lack of funds)

brisk plank
#

The Twin Souls perk unfortunately uses a "Set Value" of 2 rather than "Add Value" which hard caps it to 2 summons even if you have other perks trying to increase the limit. The only workaround is something like the Ritual Stone power which alters the limit at the time of casting, allowing it to go up to...I think it was 100 corpses by default? Something like that.

summer hearth
#

Heheh i did a funny glitch.

brisk plank
#

Hmm?

summer hearth
#

I did the 5 talos glitch but i had a diff necklace equipped beforehand, so now the amulets wont unequip, effectively giving me 2 amulets. 0 shout cd and a diff amulet.

#

Dragonpriest build go wee

midnight stag
# summer hearth With cc mods or someth8ng else

Never mind I thought you meant two bet if you have dawn guard DLC you can get a permanent training dummy she shoots arrows and dual wields two sky forge daggers and she’s pretty awesome you can get her at a Dwemer ruin near the orc stronghold near markath

summer hearth
brisk plank
#

If it's a full NPC just following you then yeah that bypasses the summon limit since it's not technically a summon.

midnight stag
summer hearth
#

Is there any CC mods that remove follower limit, i need subjects

summer hearth
#

As a mage who abuses the elemental burst, i see zero issue.

brisk plank
summer hearth
#

Damnit

brisk plank
#

I haven't done all the CCs yet though so there may very well be some other followers among it, possibly.

summer hearth
#

Wish we could have rieklings as extra followers from thirsk, and not take a main follower slot

brisk plank
summer hearth
#

Must be new

#

Very interesting.

brisk plank
#

So, I suppose the total is something like: 2 summons, 1 horse, 1 NPC, 1 creature, 2 pets.

#

And if you throw in the ritual stone, 100 undeads.

midnight stag
# summer hearth Is this supposed to be bad or..?

You can have about 5 or more with progress through guilds and two from dawn guard one is serrana and that permanent follower is a ghost that I was talking about and Mercer frea if you don’t complete quest and frea from Dragonborn dlc and don’t forget the elemental thralls if you do them in the right order

summer hearth
#

Lowkey i js go with marcurio

#

Or serana since she’s permanently essential even cured

midnight stag
#

I mean all the ones I mentioned are essential

summer hearth
#

Mfw the play station sale ends 2 days before payday

midnight stag
# summer hearth Isnt the ghost from aetherium wars

Yes just don’t open the gate but before entering the ruins quick save then go in and get to the big gate double back after her inter reaction and go outside and hopefully you can hurt her because with enough damage she’ll attack with a bow and she shoots high quality arrows so just keep getting hit and you’ll get half the arrows while leveling

summer hearth
#

Sounds tedious

#

How unfortunate the destruction bug exists

midnight stag
# summer hearth Sounds tedious

Play station better because if can survive and regenerate fast enough you can turn off tv and leave the system on and go to bed and wake up it’s quite lucrative without doing anything all night long

summer hearth
midnight stag
midnight stag
#

Thinking of playing Skyrim again

pulsar root
#

hashtag Do it.

magic dew
#

nobody could force me to say that

feral viper
#

It'll always be Number Sign to me.

fierce olive
#

I say pound sign

magic dew
feral viper
#

I mean, it depends on the grass.

#

Anything from green, to yellow, to brown, to grey.

nimble pond
#

The grass, is all gone.. 😁🚬

magic dew
#

😂

fierce olive
nimble pond
#

I really hate walls..

frosty wharf
#

I was thinking of what I said when I predict the future of what happens to the Hero of Kvatch after oblivion in the #oblivion-chat , I decide to make a elder scrolls battle royale fighting game that I’ve learned a game designing technique from Thrill Kill that I can put that into the battle royale fighting game based on Elder Scrolls. It will go up to 4 players and for LAN play for up to four TVs, four computers, or a combination of a TVs and computers and online multiplayer in the server will go up to 16 players. So that you can do either free for all, or team battle up to 8v8 battle. And the game is rated M for mature that if the losing opponent is KO’d or down, they are seriously injured and whoever KO’d an opponent or downed the opponent is been given the option to show mercy or show no mercy. If showing mercy, the losing opponent walks away alive and was out of the match, if showing no mercy, they have to finish the losing opponent off by performing the fatalities on the losing opponent to kill the losing opponent to knock the losing opponent out of the game. Otherwise, you can insta-kill the opponent with the Quick Death move to kill the opponent while the opponent was 20% of HP. That’s why it has blood and gore to it.

feral viper
nimble pond
#

Goblins need more pumpkins. Was seriously expecting some headless pumpkinhead goblins. Voodoo goblins too hex hex

#

Also, wouldn't mind raising my own goblin army if we get a kingdom building feature. I could send them out at night to steal the underpants of literally every NPC of the province

opaque ingot
#

Hollowjack should get goblin minions

nimble pond
#

And a spell that allows you to rain down sweetrolls on opponents heads until they are smothered to death in sweetness.

stark flower
#

Please be appropriate.

fierce olive
#

Sorry.

nimble pond
#

Yk, acid sounds like alot of fun (wait that came out wrong). I'd love to see an enemy's arm dissolve clean off like a breaking bad bathtub. But if not some acid potion substance, then maybe a spell with similar effect.

#

Also, why not enchant food for temporary effects (put our own enchants on them, not like pre-determined ones). Make a normal potato, a potato of fire-breathing.

primal olive
#

I drew bad fan art of me and gellybor

timid drum
#

I wish to see

primal olive
#

elder scrolls what if idea

primal olive
# primal olive elder scrolls what if idea

what if: when the Falmer went to the Dwemer for help, the Dwemer had some anger towards the Nords and chose to actually assist the Falmer instead of betraying them, leading to a longer war between the elves and men until the disappearance of dwemer during the battle of red mountain

#

when these dwemer disappear, it leaves the Falmer confused left alone in these dwemer holds, wondering where their allies went

primal olive
timid drum
#

I personally would love that idea

primal olive
#

that and I'd like to see how their religion would clash with the traditional Altmeri faith

feral viper
#

It's a lore thing, so I'm wandering into dangerous territory...

But I don't think the Dwemer betrayed the Falmer. At least not in the way most people seem to think.

Instead, they TRIED to teach the Falmer their ways, and it was rejected. The rejection then led to conflict and subjugation.

#

That said, I get a very strong 'Atheism am have no moralz' vibe from the writing surrounding the Dwemer, so I generally doubt it's nearly as well thought out and complex as I've interpreted it.

timid drum
#

Honestly same thoughts here

primal olive
feral viper
#

Just like with the assassination of Titus Mede, there's too much that just doesn't add up.

#

The REAL reason it doesn't math out? No one thought deeply enough about it to make sure everything fit.

But that doesn't mean there's not room there to resolve the terrible writing with new context.

#

The Night of Tears is another such example. It's an event that simply doesn't make sense, the way we're told it.

livid ingot
#

We learn the Falmer weren't tricked but agreed to the blinding. The only deception here would be how cruelly they would be treated.
I mean, maybe the Falmer rejected the world refutation of the dwarves but that doesn't make the Dwemer look any better for what transpired afterward. Mind there are several centuries between the compact and the war between the Dwemer and their Falmer slaves. A lot of things could have changed in that time.

feral viper
#

There is also the statue, which the Falmer had to have constructed while blind, and the Aetherium Wars in there as well.

#

It's not well thought out, and at this point it's unlikely it will ever get resolved in anything remotely approaching a satisfactory manner.

feral viper
# primal olive I disagree

I mean, we HAVE the treaty pledge. You basically have to assume the Dwemer were just lying in it, to come to any other conclusion.

Not to mention first hand accounts that the Dwemer were still accepting refugees years after, with no indication of wrongdoing, and Gelebors own statement that the 'betrayal' came later.

feral viper
#

But that's where I'm going to tap out of the conversation. Talking about the mess that is the lore of this settking is only going to make me angry.

There's a reason I silenced and hid the Lore channel.

#

Ping me when there's mechanics and gameplay to talk about I guess.

primal olive
#

all I said was I disagree lol

feral viper
#

If stating counterpoints is stuck up, then there's no point in ever having a conversation about anything.

primal olive
#

anyways "We only request you partake of the symbol of our bond, the fruit of the stones around us.
And as your vision clouds, as the darkness sets in, fear not." can be interpreted as "don't question the stuff we give you, you should do it since we helped you live" they betrayed their trust by making them slaves lol

feral viper
#

Quote the whole thing.

'And so it was that your people were given passage into our steam gardens, and the protection of our power.

Many of your people had perished under the roaring, snow-throated kings of mods, and your wills were broken, and we heard you, and sent our machines against your enemies, to thereby take you under

Only by the grace of the Dwemer did your culture survive, and only by the fifteen-and-one tones did your new lives begin.

We do not desire thanks, for we do not believe in it. We do not ask for gratitude, for we do not believe in it.

We only request that you partake in the symbol of our bond, the fruit of the stones around us.

And as your vision clouds, and darkness sets in, fear not.

Know only our mercy and the radiance of our affection, which unbinds your bones to the earth before, and sets your final path to the music of a new eternity.'

#

Particularly of note, is the thanks and gratitude.

They don't say they don't WANT it, or that it's BENEATH them, they say they don't BELEIVE in it.

This is a pure altruistic mentality. Thanks and gratitude are the actions of the lesser to those who have gone out of their way to demean themselves by helping them.

Not believing in either is the standard that assistance is not it's self a burden. Rather, helping is the STANDARD to be upheld, not a burden to be carried.

#

Read literally, the entire thing is the Dwemer saying

'Look, we saved you. We don't need your thanks, it was the right thing to do. If you're going to stay with us, though, need to accept this blindness, so we can teach you to live with us.'

#

You have to directly assume malice and duplicity, and decide the entire thing is double-speak or metaphor right out of the gate, to get anywhere else.

#

Now, given the fact Bethesda seems dead-set on the Elfs-are-evil edgy bandwagon, the subtle Moral-Argument undertones to the entire depiction of the Dwemer, and the sheer inability to write anything approaching a coherent history, it's entirely possible it's SUPPOSED to be double-speak and it's just another example of all Elves being malicious in order to make Men look better.

#

And now the lore has made me angry again, like I didn't want to be.

timid drum
#

So mute the chat and go do something else, you put yourself in this situation :/

feral viper
#

Yes, I do, and it's the reason I muted the Lore channel in the first place.

I keep this one, because despite having no love for the setting anymore, the GAMES still have value. In fact, i still think that Skyrim is the best foundation for a truely revolutionary RPG. It just needs more polish and thoughtful expansion.

But then the Lore leaks over into this channel, and triggers my contempt.

#

It'd be a heck of a lot easier of Fallout 4, or Starfield, were a better foundation for RPGs. Then I could just remove myself entirely from the Elder Scrolls.

Alas, while both have some elements that have value, their core approach is still weaker than Skyrim's.

primal olive
#

why are humans so horrible in tes anyways they're like genocidal colonizers

feral viper
#

Yeah, to REASONABLE people. The writers justify it by bending over backwards to justify their genocide.

#

Nords? It's ok because of the Night of Tears.

Yokudans? It's ok because the Left-handers were meanies.

Redguard? It's ok because they had lost their homeland.

Nedes (3 seperate times)? It's ok because... Well, just because.

Alessans? It's ok because Gut Gardens.

#

Meanwhile, Mer fight back, and they literally model them after the Gestapo.

It's like Blizzard and it's 'Morally Grey' nonsense.

#

No, Ion. Burning down a city specifically to kill tens of thousands of civilians isn't 'morally grey'. It makes Sylvanas a literal villian.

#

Alright, I'm angry enough. Im going to channel my rage and paint some 20 year old Chaos Terminators.

primal olive
#

the Atmoran - Snow Elf genocide is comparable to things in history where they conquer and kill while playing victim time and time again, with the victor being the one to tell history

#

not denying the night of tears ofc that is an irrefutable thing that happened

pulsar root
#

I think you mean some humans are terrible.

feral viper
#

I've gone over all the problems with the Night of Tears many times before giving up on the setting. There's no point in going over it again, I'm sure you can find one of my many rants about it in the backlog of the lore channel.

#

And I will say no more about lore.

#

When the topic returns to gameplay and mechanics, I'll pay attention again.

frosty wharf
feral viper
#

Not particularly. But I'm not a fan of LAN, or fighting games, so, my input there is inherently going to be minimal.

tardy tiger
tardy tiger
# feral viper Just like with the assassination of Titus Mede, there's too much that just doesn...

Dark Brotherhood feels very weird and planned with an Legion victory in mind which is odd given I can find stuff for Stormcloaks being an option in 2009. Which only makes it weird in how the quest can straight up no make sense in Stormcloak holds.

It also just feels like they wanted it as a way to write off the Civil war like Titus Mede is assassinated in Skyrim and the Penitus Oculatus has "evidence" (planted by the Dark Brotherhood) implicating the Stormcloaks so they'll send in more Legions that Ulfric wanted to avoid.

feral viper
#

Actually, nope. Not biting that line again. I'm done with the lore, and lore criticism. I need to stick to my guns and just ignore them, instead of bashing.

#

I can say, however, that these problems reflect why I maintain that 'Choices' actively make stories worse in games.

The attempt to mimic the active creative input if a game master that you find with (most) TTRPGs ultimately leads to an inferior narrative product, because you CAN'T replicate actual decision making and consequences without an that active creative role.

#

AI will eventually be able to fill that hole, but it's not there yet.

#

In the mean time, all this 'Your choices have meaning' marketing slop is actively undermining meaning by destabilising narratives, derailing character development, and trivalising the agency of all other parties.

It directly makes stories and settings WORSE.

frosty wharf
feral viper
#

That's fair, I must have missed that.

At the end of the day, I am not a fighting game person. So my input isn't really going to be of any value to you.

#

Though more and more, I question whether my input around here has any value, as i seem to either talk to myself, or just complain.

primal olive
#

thinking about writing my own what if

#

should I make my snow elf mod, or write the what if?

primal olive
#

what about head canons of Direnni orismer, Falmer Ayleid interactions

radiant roost
#

Hey guys we know how they are working on elder scrolls 6 and supposedly remaking oblivion, what if they remade morrowind and arena with modern features?

eager remnant
radiant roost
#

I mean like owning houses, better graphics and mechanics and all the likewise gameplay features that modern elder scrolls games have that arena didn’t. Like making it modern graphics in gameplay engines we have now vs what we had then on top of immersive gameplay like the varying factions, marriage options owning and building a home across Tamriel and the like as well as the ability to Mod

radiant moss
#

I'd be in your boat on "what features?" in the previous' regard though. "Arena with Fallout 4/Starfield graphics" doesn't really catch me - I'd be hopeful if there's a refined form of proc gen that's a bit more... "well-done(?)" than Starfield's.

feral viper
#

This isn't exactly the place for it, but Starfield's procgen worked exactly as intended

#

The intention just wasn't very goodm

feral viper
#

More to the point, I am generally against Remakes on the whole. Unless you're going to take another stab at the WHOLE product, like with FF7: Remake, I tend to view remakes as little more than lazy, minimal effort nostalgia farms.

Remasters are even worse.

#

Let the games of the past stand as testaments of the past. You don't need to pretty them up for new audiences. Give people today, products of today. Not flashier products of 20 years ago.

magic dew
#

What is product from 20 years ago is better tho

feral viper
#

Then it doesn't need a new coat of paint. If it's better, it will stand on its own merits.

magic dew
#

Idk I know a lot of people that won't play KOTOR bc of it's graphics alone

feral viper
#

Now, I DO think that remakes can have value. But you really have to put the work in for it.

This happens, sometimes, in cinema. The Thing is vastly superior to the original Thing From Another World. Scarface (1983) is SUCH a better remake most people don't even know Scarface (1932) exists.

But I have yet to see a video game remake that even comes close to establishing its own value.

#

I think the closest example I can even think of in video games is the recent Kings Quest 'remake' series.

#

Though that's not even really a remake, but rather a retelling from the perspective of an ailing King Graham to his granddaughter... The last chapter of which is absolutely heartbreaking, as a fan of the series.

magic dew
#

Idk I feel like remakes are a good thing because they give accessibility to a title people otherwise wouldn't touch

#

Or remasters whatever

feral viper
#

That's on those people then. Should books be rewritten with pictures just because some people don't like books without pictures?

No.

#

If something about an older game turns off some players, that's THEIR problem, not the games.

And it doesn't mean that there is creative value in slapping a coat of paint on it to solve their problems for them.

magic dew
#

Why not

#

Nothing wrong with having graphical novels for those who like that

feral viper
#

If it's made AS a graphic novel, of a light novel, sure. But you don't need to constantly update old products to new generations just to keep them popular.

#

Imagine if we re-released Lord of the Rings with modern zoomer speak.

#

Aragon has so much riz, he's on fire, mang.

magic dew
#

I'd read that

#

Might make the books actually interesting

feral viper
magic dew
#

I don't really see a problem with updating stuff, feels like a waste to let stuff die out and be forgotten

feral viper
#

And it seems to me to be a waste to rewrite history all the time.

#

Accept history for what it is.

magic dew
#

Nobody is rewriting history the original still exists?

#

They're just making it more accessible

fierce olive
magic dew
#

Why

feral viper
# magic dew They're just making it more accessible

No, digital availability makes it more accessible.

Constantly updating it for new audiences just Ship of Theseus's it.

And the longer that goes on, the worse the dismantling of it becomes. You end up with nonsense like Romeo and Juliet becoming a love story, instead of a scathing depiction of childish infatuation.

magic dew
#

Who?

feral viper
#

The Ship of Theseus. It's a thought experiment about originality.

#

If you keep replacing or changing parts of the ship, at what point is it no longer the same ship?

magic dew
#

I meant romeo and julliet

feral viper
#

Oh, the original is NOT a love story

magic dew
#

Idk what it's about so

feral viper
#

... I don't even know what to say to that

magic dew
#

🤷‍♀️

bitter kestrel
#

Let's bring the conversation back to Elder Scrolls please meowthumbsup

feral viper
#

Indeed.

Point being, I think Remakes are souless voids where creativity goes to die, pandering to the abuse of nostalgia so companies can squeeze as much money out of consumers for as little investment as possible.

#

The only TES game I could justify to myself a remake of, is Oblivion. And only if it was a TRUE remake, and basically rebuilt the entire game from the ground up story, worldbuilding and all.

#

Even then, I'd much rather people just put the effort into making new things.

Not to say Remakes and Remasters don't take effort... But so does creating a forgery or replica of famous paintings. That doesn't give the forgery or replica creative value, or make it worth anything remotely comparable to the original.

#

Even a new game that is bad, has more creative value than just redoing what's been done before.

The WORST take on Hammerfell would still be superior to Oblivion in a new coat of paint.

radiant roost
#

Mmmmm I dunno it was just an idea, I thought it would be cool to remake arena given its story and add a little more depth into it, and immersion and character builds and stuff

feral viper
#

Don't mind me, I'm just an old Grognard who hates ideas.

summer hearth
#

Riddle me this chat

#

Why does ebony plate have less armor than EBONY SPELLSWORD

eager remnant
summer hearth
#

Follow up: they are both modded

eager remnant
pulsar root
#

They forgot to fix that.

primal olive
#

another day thinking about snow elves

nimble pond
#

Anywho, April may be a busy month

nimble pond
#

It would be nice if they opened up Akavir, if only for economy and trade value. I think it'd be interesting.

magic dew
#

April is after march right? i always confuse those two

feral viper
#

Yes.

timid drum
#

Could've looked at a calendar or Google that :p

magic dew
#

But I know now bc looked it up

frosty wharf
#

Now I understand some of you that you’re not familiar with my planned battle royale fighting game based on Elder Scrolls that I used the game designing technique from Thrill Kill. So that’s why if the opponent was KO’d and was spared or killed, that losing opponent was out of the match and the next round will go on. However, unlike Thrill Kill, you got Health meter that you can take damage before getting KO’d, and then you got the Magicka, Stamina, and Super Meter all together that you can perform combos, special moves, AOE damage moves, and super moves as well. And there were the rules that if you’re stamina meter runs out, you are down and exhausted and the combatant will either spare you or kill you, depending how the player knows their losing opponent, before the losing opponent is out of the game.

And that’s the same thing with the Health meter runs out that you are critically injured, and the winning opponent will decide whether to spare you or kill you before you are out of the match. So I understand you were confused and you were like “What?”, like I said, you’ll see later on with my company that I teamed up with Bethesda.

nimble pond
#

Maybe you can your build your own ranch and make some decent gold by breeding animals. Animal haven. By being an animal breeder you can unlock unique abilities with them too. Could tame a troll to be your assistant on the ranch

frosty wharf
#

I liked the idea, but that’s not my focus.

nimble pond
#

I was going on about how I wanted a harpoon-like dwemer handheld mini-ballista thingy. But now that I think about it, a wearable gauntlet gun would work too. Whole thing fits over your fist and lower arm as opposed to holding it like a crossbow.

#

And weaponizing armor thru crafting like spikes or poison so enemies can take dmg, even when they hit you

frosty wharf
frosty wharf
nimble pond
#

Was thinking of adding a new Daedra creature to the game. Idk, something very orange and very angry?

nimble pond
#

Besides crafting your own spell types themselves.. it would be nice to have a crafting system for how they work as well. For example you want to make a basic fireball spell. But does it.. penetrate thru multiple enemies, rain down on their heads, stick to them like napalm, shatter into several smaller fireballs on impact, rapid-fire many fireballs quickly, or one slow huge asteroid-sized fireball??
All those options and that's just with one basic spell. Not even a hybrid spell type.
Lastly, could add a more personalization/signature effect such as the color of the fire itself.

nimble pond
#

Hmm, perhaps your approach is over-complicating the desired goal? And I wouldn't say that a spell has to be on everything, if not say.. separate traditional magic by hand from say.. staves.

#

But most of the time I just spat random ideas mostly for fun and they're fun to think about, even if we don't get them.

But if something is difficult, don't let that stop you. Press on!

nimble pond
#

Details where they are fitting, but not details just for the sake of details 👍

feral halo
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@nimble pond your idea reminds of of someone started with base magic and it evolved based on events such as exposure to different elements, the desired need of it. But to have evolving magic over time? That would be a very hard mod to make.

primal olive
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we need more playable races

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snow elves, maormer, tsaeci could work, just say a small pocket of them are around still in tamriel or came to it

wheat hollow
tardy tiger
pulsar root
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Nah don't need new races atm. Unless ints minotaur.

primal olive
primal olive
tardy tiger
pulsar root
primal olive
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lean more into half elf druid stuff, less politics of the empire

opaque ingot
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Wish they’d lean toward daggerfall gods instead of nine divines

pulsar root
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I agree with the first thing you said. The last part I dont. I think personally they should lean far away from being elves. Keep them actually human. But I also agree Imperials also need work, they need to be more then Romans.

What that is, I don't know.

tardy tiger
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The main issue of the Imperials is that they're the Empire the race. They've done nothing else they exist for the Empire and are just replaceable.
Even on the Empire side of things it's a mess (rip governors).

Like it would be fine if we weren't in or around the Empire but we've been to Cyrodiil multiple times and we've been in the Empire since TES1 with the big change around Redguard. So it just makes all the "lore" that talks about it unreliable.

feral halo
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I think the races are based on the back story to eldar scroll, so any more like half breeds would have to be according to the lore, it would be interesting to start a character as infant and grow up over time ( a new character created by your first character from such thing as marriage ect.)

nimble pond
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That reminds me of Fable. Would be kinda neat to have a pre-setting mode where you are a kid.

stark flower
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Please do not ping moderators unless it is an emergency. Instead, please message us @vast rain

feral viper
median nebula
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The Ultimate Dark Brotherhood Game: A Lore-Accurate Elder Scrolls Experience

For years, The Elder Scrolls has captivated players with its rich lore and immersive world-building. One of the most beloved factions in the series is the Dark Brotherhood, with its intricate hierarchy, mysterious Night Mother, and the ever-looming presence of Sithis. While past TES games have explored this shadowy guild, I propose an entire Elder Scrolls installment dedicated solely to the Dark Brotherhood—an immersive experience that delves into its origins, expansion, and influence across Tamriel.

Setting & Time Period:
Rather than a side storyline, this game should be a main entry in the franchise, focusing on the origins of the Dark Brotherhood and the Night Mother’s rise to power. Players could start in the early days of the Morag Tong, witnessing the schism that led to the formation of the Brotherhood. From there, they would establish the first sanctuaries, become the first Speaker, recruit assassins, and spread the Night Mother’s influence across Tamriel.

Alternatively, the game could be set during the Brotherhood’s golden age, allowing players to solidify their power while facing threats from the Empire, rival assassin factions, and internal betrayal.

Full Tamriel Exploration:
Unlike previous titles that focus on a single province, this game should take place across all of Tamriel, reflecting the Dark Brotherhood’s far-reaching influence. Each region would have unique contracts, assassination styles, and political intrigue that reflect local cultures. Imagine infiltrating the Thalmor in the Summerset Isles, striking down Argonian Shadowscales in Black Marsh, or navigating the brutal feudal politics of High Rock—all while maintaining the Brotherhood’s secrecy.

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Gameplay Mechanics & Features:

  1. Deep Stealth Mechanics:

    • Dynamic AI that reacts to different stealth tactics
    • The ability to manipulate environments for "accidental" kills
    • Choice-based dialogue that impacts targets, guild members, and rival factions

  2. Sanctuary Management:

    • Establish and expand hidden sanctuaries across Tamriel
    • Train and assign assassins to contracts, affecting Brotherhood reputation
    • Manage relationships with local nobles, rulers, and underground factions

  3. Enhanced Roleplay & Customization:

    • Ability to choose different assassination styles: brute force, poison, deception, magic, environmental, or racial specific.
    • Fully customizable assassination methods, moving away from pre-set animations
    • Deeper interactions with Sithis, the Night Mother, and guild members

  4. Political Intrigue & Manipulation:

    • Influence rulers and governments, deciding if the Brotherhood remains hidden or becomes a force feared across Tamriel
    • Rival factions attempting to overthrow the Brotherhood
    • A dynamic world where choices affect future contracts and relationships

Why This Needs to Happen:
A Dark Brotherhood-focused Elder Scrolls game would allow Bethesda to craft a deeply immersive, morally complex experience that fully explores the guild’s lore. With modern RPG mechanics, an expansive open world, and the ability to roleplay as a true master assassin, this could become one of the most unique and unforgettable TES entries.

What Do You Think?
If you're as excited about this idea as I am, let’s make sure Bethesda hears us! Share your thoughts, expand on ideas, and let’s get the discussion going. Together, we can push for a game that finally realizes the full potential of the Dark Brotherhood.

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To Bethesda & Todd Howard: Please consider making this dream a reality! The Dark Brotherhood has always been a fan-favorite faction, and with the advancements in AI and RPG storytelling, this could be the most immersive TES experience yet.

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Yours truly, Canna-Ballistic of PSNA

feral viper
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I think the best way to approach the Brotherhood, is to have the REAL Dark Brotherhood kill every surviving member of the Manson Family Cult, and turn the Night Mother into Dunmer-Jerky.

Expunge the stain of that silly spoopy cult and get back to murder for hire.

feral viper
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That said, I do think there's potential to better Dark Brotherhood questlines in general.

I just don't think it's worth an entire game.

And I legitimately have no confidence in Bethesda's (or really most of the industries) ability to actually execute on morally complicated topics.

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In also against multiple provinces at once, though considering my low opinion of the setting as a whole these days, that's probably just me clinging to old positions that aren't even really relevant anymore

tardy tiger
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The Dark Brotherhood is honestly just that age old silly evil choice in RPGs.

it's not well thought it's just stupid evil.

wide garnet
# tardy tiger The Dark Brotherhood is honestly just that age old silly evil choice in RPGs. i...

I’ve got something planned for the Dark Brotherhood in my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

Cicero, on the way to “bury his mother” encounters a despair demon. Fleeing, he “takes a wrong turn at Morthal”/||Albuquerque|| and ends up in Thedas. But, for some odd reason (don’t ask me, even I don’t know), Sithis orders the Dark Brotherhood “remnants” to aid the Inquisition in their mission to stop Corypheus. When Maxwell (my Inquisitior) asks why this is, all Sithis says is that she “can’t forgive (Corypheus)” for something (||it’s a noodle incident||).

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For now, they’re serving as consultants on how they’d do certain assassinations (both as suggestions and how to foil them) while masquerading as a group of performers.

Cicero’s found that the Jester’s garb makes him a near-perfect assassin (he does a dagger-juggling trick, pretend to trip, assassinate someone, then get all upset about it, thereby making it seem like an accident).

nimble pond
median nebula
tardy tiger
median nebula
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Sounds a lot like assassins creed to me. But in a fantasy world.
But i think ZOS and/or Bethesda could do a good job immersing us in a game that is centered around the Dark Brotherhood as a main questions that stretches across Tamriel and play as the first Speaker of the night mother and uncover / experience it's origins before the death of the the character who becomes the immortal night mother.

tardy tiger
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Eh not really.

Assassins Creed is just a shadow war between two factions.

Dark Brotherhood is just killing anyone your god tells you to regardless of target be it age or your new dark family.

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When you kill people in assassins Creed they just die.

With the Dark Brotherhood you believe you are sending their souls to your dark lord themselves.

median nebula
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But your own name is based off a character who is evil and also causes senseless killing 🤔

This is a lore friendly game that immerses you deep into the story of the Dark Brotherhood.

It's okay if the idea is not your flavor, trust me, I don't like world of warcraft at all..

But I am a fan of elder scrolls through and through.

So this idea caters to elder scrolls fans.

tardy tiger
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Difference is The Dark Brotherhood is all about killing anyone for their Dark Lord. DB isn't really going to do much other then man we love murdering for our dark lord.

Honestly DB being that silly evil only works on its own but when you get out of it you'd have to justify why such a dangerous person would bother helping people. It's the age old RPG issue of their "evil choices" where it's stupid evil instead of some thought put in.

The character I named myself after also explicitly involves magic corruption to a soul stealing sword.

Assassin's Creed is just a shadow war with sci-fi stuff thrown in and maybe stop the end of the world. If there's evil it's going to be by Templars but even then there's more human charcters to make things grey.

wheat hollow
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The Dark Brotherhood being a murder cult dedicated to Sithis is what makes it interesting.

Their “senseless” killing is all in an effort to appease Sithis, the void that predates creation. Every kill committed by the Dark Brotherhood sends a soul back to the void. Sithis grows stronger with every one. That’s a little more compelling than “generic evil option” in my eyes at least 🤷

pulsar root
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Kinda messed up that souls can't end up in the regular afterlife if you're unlucky enough to be targeted by the Dark Brotherhood or soul cairned.

timid drum
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That is true, but to me, it provides farther proof of the dark brotherhoods dedication to Sithis

feral viper
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When Sithis was just annihilation, it was preferable to an afterlife.

Now that Sithis is just mean old spoopy hell, well...

They ain't the Cult of Baal, I'll tell ya that.

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The Brotherhood was better when they were just killers for hire. Immoral thugs and murderers trading in death. There's a menace to the economy of murder, and it's subservience to the rich and powerful.

Since Oblivion, the Brotherhood has just been angsty 13 year olds playing at Satanism.

You know, without actually knowing jack squat about Satanism.

feral viper
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But the problems with Assassin's Creed highlight wider writing issues across the industry...

tardy tiger
feral viper
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It's more the problem of trying to make an underlying theme or message, while not actually having the writing chops or cohesion to do so.

The core current of Assassin's Creed, and the Assassin's themselves, is freedom and the right to self determination. Which is great, great message and theme to play with.

But then they go and throw in that the Ancients literally engineered Humans to be subservient, and not HAVE free will. And the 'Eagle Vision' characteristic is a side effect of those few humans who HAVE the ability to make their own choices.

So the Assassin's are literally useless, because their main goal is possible. So if course the shadow war has been going on for so long, because the Assassin's literally cannot achieve their goal, while the Templar are factually correct

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StarCraft II has similar problems. And Starfield. ESO...

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Hell, even Fallout 4 ended up with the same problematic pitfalls. Whether it's poor writing and an inability to actually understand the consequences and considerations of the idea, of slapshod attempts to cover multiple angles and inject some 'Ambiguity' into the narrative threads, the end result ends up being the same.

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Either the concept just doesn't get explored in any meaningful way, or you end up actively undermining your entire theme.

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Specifically to TES, Ithelia is a prime example of the second problem. The whole driving thrust of her narrative was that EVERYONE has free will. But the entire take on the Many Paths, and alternate timelines that her story solidified the irrelevant of free will, because every outcome occurs.

Not only was it the most pedestrian take on Multiverse Hypothesis, but it actively undermined the entire point of what she represented.

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Now, Bethesda games tend to get a little more wiggle room with this problem, because they do so many different things and cast such a wide net, narratively speaking. While more focused stories like Assassin's Creed and StarCraft more blatantly obliterate their entire point with such poorly expressed and explored ideas.

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I give Nier Automata a hard time for being basic intro to philosophy, at least it understood the material. Which is more than I can say for basically every other game that tries to be thought provoking.

median nebula
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Some of the best rpgs were centered around a murderous organization, Diablo, baldurs gate, assassins creed.
I'm hoping to pitch an idea that includes a full story on the origins of the DB and include new game mechanics that create more depth to the various ways to perform an assassination, even pulling strings that get npcs to be framed and you can watch the fun without directly being involved in the act of carying out such a contract.
Having the ability to choose a direct assassination up closer and personal, stealth, or magical animations would give power to the players to have the freedom to decide how their target dies.
Even racial specific animations could exist, like a khajiit having the ability to claw or bite their target out of existence

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We could start off as a Morag Tong and explore the full depth of the development of the Dark Brotherhood. And even include the shadow scales.

I did my best to put these ideas together❤️

nimble pond
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It's too early T ☕

feral viper
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It's less the murderous organization that I take exception to, and more the tacky cult it's become.

I think there's a lot of mechanical potential in stealth gameplay more generally of course. Both in terms of combat and non-combat options.

It's just the Dark Brotherhood I can't stand.

nimble pond
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I concur with his idea of adding more lore to them and faction-specific rewards.

nimble pond
feral viper
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That i'd take.

wheat hollow
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My hope is that we actually get a new assassins guild in ES6. After Skyrim the DB is still rebuilding. Would be fun if we had a court intrigue assassination plot line in its place

feral viper
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It would be a great void for the Tong to move into, and finally eradicate the Brotherhood.

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Though ESO decided to make the Tong pants-on-head too, so ...

tardy tiger
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Well the Tong's only about to attempt to stop House Wars in Morrowind. Doesn't work all the time. So they're always limited to just Morrowind.

feral viper
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Except for that time they were across Tamriel. And then decided to murder an Potentate and smear their own name across the wall in his blood.

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An act so colossally stupid, I was certain it was a Dark Brotherhood frame job until ESO was like 'Nope, we totally did that.'

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Not the place for rumours. Until it's announced the mods don't like talking about that.

stark flower
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We do not allow the sharing of or discussion about rumors, datamined content, or any other unofficial information that has not been officially released or shared. This applies to ZeniMax, Bethesda, and any associated companies and games.

feral viper
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Right, i did it again, and I need to stop biting at setting topics.

So, mechanics. And getting back on point.

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Without getting into AI problems and trying to simulate complex factions like Framing Someone outside of specifically scripted tasks, Stealth is another aspect of the games that needs significant work.

Probably second only to general combat, though some of that would have overflow to stealth anyway.

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Starfield's stealth is actually pretty good all round, but suffers from a few major problems when you look at something like TES.

First, if far more variable equipment modifiers. Starfield's basically just.. Armour, yes or no. There are a few specific sets that give stealth bonuses, but the interaction with armour and equipment isn't very deep or meaningful.

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Second, is the weapons. Despite HAVING melee options, melee is absolute mechanical garbage in Starfield. Whereas it's the primary combat dynamic in a game like TES. So major chances need to be applied to make it more engaging in the future.

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The last one, and this is something that Starfield did NOT do, is mobility options.

Sneak Mode just doesn't cut it. Mobility in these games are too restrictive to really make any strong stealth mechanics function. A lack of climbing limits the ability to traverse environments and evade enemies, a lack of true crouch or prone positions limits the ability to control visibility, and no real way to reliably indicate how much sound you make limits the ability to figure out just when it's safe to do anything and what.

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The armour and equipment issue would be relatively easy to address with actual sound feedback. Something to tell the player how much noise they're making reliably, so they can actively adjust.

Especially given that Armour Classes should be dumped in the bin where they belong, so you can no longer lean on 'Light armour am for sneakies'.

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Weapons and combat are a wider issue, with finishers and attack animations for style butting heads with raw functionality. Probably not the best time to have that whole discussion, but I do lean on function over form. Games that dictate how you fight or act ultimately dictate your character.

primal olive
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Cold take dawnguard should've added spears, and unique ones, like imagine finding the snow prince's spear on a dead adventure during the quest in forgotten vale

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the dlc that adds in snow elves? with the most famous one wielding one??

nimble pond
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You are going to turn into a snow elf Shout

primal olive
nimble pond
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No, I meant in real life 😋 lol jk

primal olive
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Like with moths for example I learned a lot about them and eventually the hyperfixation cooled down but it can't with Falmer blehh

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guess I'm passionate at least LOL

primal olive
nimble pond
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Good point

primal olive
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I could go to Antarctica and strut around in my pajamas and cheer lol

nimble pond
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You'd be the last of your kind tho, lol