#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 20 of 1

minor dew
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I guess thre mana lecches have to be added again, but you couldnt have a sword that attacked on its onw?

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like i was thinking fo soemthing really sharp

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like an evil goat pure xbox lol

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scarecrows are in game,maybe you should throw one of them in there maybe even crows

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like the human aspect of this game is easy,the farmers tending there crops, you can get that loking so good

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vampires are must

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you cant add aliens but what of an alien looking enmy, i think that why i was thinking of the creatures of the deep

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what about the things that where in elden ring you know something like that with all the legs

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I dont really know what im tihnkg about im thinkng about some kind of land jelly fish

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trools have to there gain thats a cert

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maybe cut the lions out change them to something else hyeneas no?

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I dont think people would like aatck dogd, wild dogd not in an elder scrolls no

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pups

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!

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if you have kids in the game one should have a pupu no?

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posibly even a rescue mission to save a pile of pups

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,like i live in the countryside, so what we used to do as kids was go dwon to a plce called macradonalds,wehre we woula all play amry and build amry traps,and cook beans at a fire, but that getting really in to the crazy kids dynamics

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do you bring more kids in to the game

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maybe a school

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a restoration school

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lol

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what about he dark arts

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if you where gona do dark art you would probably have to have one of the thieves or dark brotherhood quests like gary fox to level it out

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the dark elf do adark arts, we do what we want

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god damn man i bet the lore would interfere with that

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more goats

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fields of em

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you probalby need another version of the dwenmer,what do you do there,im thinkng cyberpunk but you cant do that

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, but i guess the dewmner are kind of robots,they run on cores,they run on fusion cells they run on air what

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like the dwenmer buld themsleves what the lore on that,probly is none

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what if you did have something that looked like a cyberpunky,like this guy,check out the guy fron the video i linked in the music chat,anyma, he uses this roboty thing in nealry it all his shows it kinda looks like it would fit in an elder scrolls world

minor dew
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ybermonkeys lol maybe you could put tha in your next ip

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maye i need to be in cdpr chat

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there beneath me fools

minor dew
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drunks like lying outside the bar drunk

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you couldnt have them santering to you but that would be too much

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maybe you could

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you would literlly have to have the voice actor get really drunk for that

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what lese gos on in a vilaage,bands

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.theres like civc weeks oer the summer where youd gather in a field

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yeah mumbo jumbo

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I dont like any o fthis tbh im just alking out loud

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milkdrinkers

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you couldnt put a milk factory in that id be weird

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evetytnigs literlly been though of,so you literlly have the formula that works

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yip but what do you add :p

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a pig slaughtering house :S bye

feral viper
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Nords calling people Milk Drinkers makes me think they all suffer from extreme osteoporosis.

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I understand the intended context of the insult. But like... Compared to N'wah and Swit... Nords are really scraping the bottom of the barrel for their profanity.

vast timber
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I hope for TES6 they DO NOT bring the settlement system. It is really boring to me.

feral viper
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At least not as it exists now. I do think there is some potential in it for TES, but its current iteration isn't what we need.

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Though, I will qualify that comment by adding, I ENJOY the current iteration, and probably spend more time base building in Fallout 4 than literally every other activity combined...

livid ingot
eager remnant
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A clarification: Hearthfire was not a settlement system DLC. "Settlement system" is one in which we control what we build. Hearthfire used an older system ,first seen in Morrowind, where we merely enable pre-built modules.

feral viper
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Indeed. The first 'Settlement System' we had was actually a camping mod for Skyrim.

pale walrus
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I am not against a settlement system per se. I very much like the idea of being able to take over an old fort or castle, bring it back up to function, staff it and have it not just self-sustaining but also profitable to me in finances and resources. The FO4 system was interesting but needs significant improvement (note: i haven't played FO4 for years and never used mods.)

feral viper
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Indeed. I think a major problem with the Settlement System as-is, is really it's lack of really world-driven integration. It's very much a GAME driven inclusion, rather than a natural in-universe or narrative driven on.

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It basically exists to feed you resources, and give you crafting stations. Rather than be part of a wider world.

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And that, I think, is it's biggest weakness. It only ever really interacts with it's self, not with the wider world. You can't send trade caravans to Diamond City, for instance. Or establish contact and support with the Freestar Collective of United Colonies in Starfield.

The entire Settlement System is seperate from the wider world, and entire dependent on you, the player.

minor dew
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using mages for a burial,il say it while its in my head

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it satred of with mages tending plants

feral viper
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That's at least in part how Dunmeri burial rituals go. At least, magical binding seems to be part of the process.

minor dew
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i cant reber one

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there as a funeral in recent elder scrolls

feral viper
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We don't witness a lot of funerals in game.

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Most, as just leave trails of corpses and don't see the aftermath.

minor dew
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it went from mages tending plants to mages and something with holes in the ground,the it hit me

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i dont know theres something there

feral viper
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If we want to get technical, Necromancers may count...

minor dew
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nah i would have mage do it

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not even a priest

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a mge i dunno why,maybe it has something to do with the whole itself

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I tihkn im thinknig of a funeral.

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wouldnt even have to be a big crowd im thiknig of a graveside with no one arounfd it

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there just the mage

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there no one even there

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the mage is givig the gods blessing ne

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id watch a funeral

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short

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mybe

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what would a mage be doing at a funeral side

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graveside

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mages and wholes in the ground, i thoguht of quake too

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theyve tampered with this in falkreath maybe they thought this ws a bad idea to put this in

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probably couldnt have done it in skyrim

feral viper
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Well, technically, aren't Priests just a particular type of Mage?

minor dew
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yeah thats what i was thinknig but priest doesnt feel right for somereason

feral viper
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Because we've been socially conditioned to treat priests differently. Even though for most of history they were synonymous in a functional sense.

minor dew
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might be it.

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like a blueish purpleish mage cating what looks like ah ehaling spell over an empty grave that what ive got

feral viper
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In fact, in the real world, most magical traditions were literally part of religious and priestly activities. Even the ones most recognised in the west, like Solomonic Magic, was literally focused on communion with divine forces. Which is what we would consider the preoccupation of 'Priests' in most fantasy settings.

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I think the social association of Priests somehow being different can be attributed to John XXII. Known in my circles by his pet name: THE ANTI MAGIC POPE

minor dew
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yeah

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dont like em

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was gonn say this after this first part

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but this confirms it

feral viper
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My personal opinion on the Catholic Church or any religion, is not relevant here.

But the basic point is, Magic and Priests go hand in hand, both historically and within the realm of fantasy fiction.

So a Priest is, in fact, just a specialised sort of Mage.

minor dew
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wjat would a mage realistically be doing if he was standing ove an empty grave carting a healing

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,yeah in a game sure , ive played em :p

feral viper
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Necromancy, PROBABLY.

minor dew
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i was thinkng more like preperation, or maybe y ugt instisct was right to begin with and a funeral

feral viper
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Though, misidentification of death was uncomfortably common historically. So a healer doing regular rounds through a cemetery to exhume and help anyone who was accidentally buried when not actually dead could be a other option.

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Undertakers and embalmers could also use magic in their trades, to preserve and prepare bodies.

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D&D has a few spells which could fit with the activity too. Either preserving a body for a set amount of time, or accelerating decomposition.

minor dew
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accelarting decompostion that sounds cool

feral viper
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Imagine an Embalmer using a spell to preserve a body for the funeral. The. After the funeral, a priest uses another spell to help it decompose faster. Or even in moments.

minor dew
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like if you could kill someone in the world,lets face it where killing left right centre, if you could decopensate that corpse and get rwarded fro it

feral viper
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You could have a nature mage, like a stereotypical Druid, casting a spell on a body placed on the surface, causing it to rapidly be covered in vines and roots.

minor dew
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like a kinda extra picea loot fo something no

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yeah thta was my first idea man, i dunno if ythey wanna delve in to that though

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like the idea of wind as a spelin skyrim is brilliant atmiunte but would they acutally start of with it in an elder scrolls game

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like even a nature spell is what i started with plain simple nature bolt

vast timber
minor dew
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like the mage is casting a restoration spell over grave while a mother is tanding crying, a blessing to arkay,whys the mage doing it tohugh

feral viper
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There's also more... Practical reasons to have a mage at a funeral. Imagine you bury the deceased with jewelry. You then have a mage place a ward on the casket, so if anyone tries to steal from them they'll be hit with a lightning bolt.

minor dew
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I mena know one says its priest it could just look like amge

feral viper
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Could be that the Priests of Arkay are like real priests. Basically useless. And it's the Restoration Mages that do the ACTUAL warding of the dead.

minor dew
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yeah i think theyve probably toyed with this idea,you couldp orbably even see the coffin goin to the ground

feral viper
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Every time you died in Daggerfall, you'd see your casket being carried Into a tomb.

minor dew
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I tihkn ive seen tat,maye onlie not sure

feral viper
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It got very old, very quick, truth be told

minor dew
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maybe played a little couldnt seemd to get it working maybe have died onec thoguh

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uh yeah i should probly think before i speak next itime.

feral viper
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Hah, no worries.

minor dew
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coukd be a preist though could be a priest thohugh nobody could tell, are you a priest bro.,.,. a non interacable npc go away..........im busy

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right ive got it, its mage preparing an empty grave, if dyon would let me speak, and just a simple im busy when you try to interact with him

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maybe you could interact with him inside and you ask him what where you doing,and he tells you im wardnig off the dead

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still feels like a priest job

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just gonna leva it there

minor dew
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yeah i fond it hard to believe not everyone plays as a mage or a battlemage at least,

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thats the concept of a fantasy game you get to use magic

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a fire mage in particular is the first spell that everybody gos for no?

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google tells me that a pure mage is oe of the least played

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I dont just play pure mage, i will us everything, but magic for sure i iwill use the most

feral viper
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That's mostly a mechanical problem in Skyrim. Magic just isn't that fun or engaging. Or particularly strong.

minor dew
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yeah i kinda find it hard to wrap my head around that sometimes

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yeah i might have been mre suited to a final fantasy, if i had been graphic desgin

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maybe i wouldt have been any good at all

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night folks.

nimble pond
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Hm. Should there be a way to carry on, even after you die? Typically the adventure just ends right there and we are taken out of the game world by means of "reload last save." But what if there was another option in-game where we could backup and restore ourselves or not be completely dead in the traditional sense. The Voldemort horcrux thing inspired the idea, but I'm not saying to carry it out exactly like that.

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I just didn't like how some of the perks were more like buffs (increase bow dmg 25%l). It's just uninteresting, perks should offer more exciting and distinct benefits, like the zooming with a bow rather than just stat percentages.. yawn.

minor dew
nimble pond
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And with spellmaking, could combine a rain spell with arrows to enchant arrows that you can shoot a single arrow into the sky, causing smaller arrows to fall from above from the arrow you shot into the sky, basically radius damage or stun effect perhaps to help protect you if you're playing as a bowman and get rushed by multiple enemies.

minor dew
nimble pond
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Maybe we can create a shield that can also shoot a steady blazing beam of fire

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Here's a wild thought, weaponized armor. A helmet that actively shoots out magic (like flames) to enemies hitting you from behind while you are focused on one in front of you. Spell/arrow shooting gauntlets too. Magnetism shields, take your opponents weapons away. Well some, won't pull a wooden bow.

minor dew
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i need to go take my heart medication, in my wheelchair, trying to not lose my mind with a sore head, also theres a high window upstairs, I should probably sut that!

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all done and good for sleep

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sweet dreams

nimble pond
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Right, later on then. I have to go take some french fries cause I'm hungry

minor dew
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< i think i herd tim cain say like if you start adding stuff like with 9 months left before release, it has a chance of adding bugs, so maybe we should just let them cook

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unless you where actually a grpaic designer,there like 100 of them in a room, do you honestly think theres anything we say in here that they havnt got covered

minor dew
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being schizophremics so distilling at times, best word i can find, its like you find something you like, and its like no dude you need to back off.so its like a constant loop of finding stuff you like and trying to stay interested

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this is why i like/love th elder scrolls world because, has so much diversity

minor dew
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magic mostly

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battlemage lets go im r, skyrim is finsihed,welll maybe its not,its not copletely dead yet

nimble pond
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elder scrolls prisencolinensinainciusol

minor dew
minor dew
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whoever made cicero

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tired to link the liam nessen from taken dunno how,not seen it in a while

nimble pond
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autokorrect

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Elder scrolls pie*

nimble pond
minor dew
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gint centipedes, its naaw:s that was done in morrowind

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aerthwornmmmmm jim. what I bet that was a fun game to make

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more agic, we could do constelations and put stats on them

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dude i might lose my mind in this game

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.........actually thinknig of the hermit it ties in with the druid i was thknh of,this kind of character belongs in game

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its like you know he would maybe have advise for you or somethin

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its ike a wee crouched over grandpa simpson kinda lookin more myhodical questgiver

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.its just kind like a miscilaenious,thats thekinda stuff yous are still working on i guess

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..all the same ** come to mind, gargoyles bloatflys

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termorphs haha,is it because ive seen the tings im getting these names or am i actully thinkng of these things

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. i was gonna say sonething there that is not worth of earth

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creamery

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pool of life wtfs that there you put that in it

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ewoks het there an idea?

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like i was thinknig of khajot up in the trees but what if you put lik ewoks up in the trees

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evil ones

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like that would attack you ,flank you

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put a nightclub in that would help me :S

minor dew
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shortbread,not soft enough

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lean meats and sweet rolls

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yeh

feral viper
feral viper
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So, a game I've been playing recently which kinda highlights the Keep It Simple topic, is Rogue Trader.

Because it doesn't. Keep it simple, I mean.

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What it presents instead of a convoluted and often muddled series of systems, each with their own mechanics that interact in different ways, resulting in an incredibly unintuitive and often confusing character building dynamic.

And even when it DOES explain how these works, it's rarely in any sort of plain language or consistent way.

I'm still enjoying it for the story and setting, of course, but the game tries to hard to be complex and in the process just becomes obtuse.

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Which is something that TES should do everything it can to avoid.

feral viper
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They also do Melta weapons wrong... Which hurts my soul.

But it's the convoluted mechanics that are the useful comparison.

eager remnant
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I hadn't heard of the game so I watched IGN's review. Here is what the reviewer, Leana Hafer, had to say:

"If you're coming here straight from Baldur's Gate 3, Larian's interpretation of D&D will seem like a soft, gooey nugget that melts in your mouth by comparison. Ability descriptions in Rogue Trader can feel like reading an academic paper on differential equations and the wordy, overly-detailed way the tooltips are presented doesn't do it any favors. It never stops being a kind of a research project to understand what a new talent actually does on first inspection."

This sounds like way more complexity (and complexity poorly presented) than I personally want from an Elder Scrolls game. I know some CRPG purists think action RPGs like TES are 'dumbed down' for 'casuals' but, for me, there is such a thing as too much complexity. At my age I don't have the time to undertake a research project in order to play a video game

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EDIT: Apparently I don't know how to spell "complexity," lol.

minor dew
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.......same with the thing im playing at the minute, its trying to be about 5 different games at the same ,,,,,,bit different,. but same idea....roguhly

pure mulch
minor dew
feral viper
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Yeah. And it sorta plays into various discussions I have been involved with in the past about TES. Skills, for instance.

There's a logical foundation that many Skills interact with. For instance, despite their explicit differences, how you use and fight with an Axe, Sword and Mace all rely on the same fundamentals. If you give an expert swordsman a Mace, they're not suddenly going to become a fumbling idiot.

Because of this, individual skills for related things don't make a lot of sense.

Rogue Trader leans on an often propose solution... Variable skill contributions and cross leveling. So, if you gain 1 skill exp in Sword, you gain .25 in Axe and Mace, for instance.

And this is sort of the approach Rogue Trader takes. With various sorts of nested stat contributions for different things. But it's not always obvious what contributes to what, and you need to read the specifics in detail.

For instance, Shooting is based on Ballistic Skill, but a Lasgun also gets a small bonus from Perception. A Plasma Gun in the other hand does not, getting a bonus from Tech Use instead.

pure mulch
feral viper
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Personally, I prefer Skyrim's approach. You have one Skill for the base activity. And then you use perks within that skill to specialise how you prefer I engage with that activity.

minor dew
feral viper
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Its clean, simple, and easy to follow. But it doesn't sacrifice the ability to cover a wide range of options and specialisations.

minor dew
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oh its ace my bad

pure mulch
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My names Jack if that's easier to remember, Ace is a recent nickname I likened for myself

minor dew
feral viper
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There is only one Ace in my books.

minor dew
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nice..... jim carey?

feral viper
pure mulch
feral viper
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That's not technically his plane, but it's the right colour...

minor dew
feral viper
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The Red Baron.

minor dew
feral viper
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Manfred von Richthofen, ace of the German Airforce in WWI and one of the greatest pilots in history.

pure mulch
minor dew
minor dew
feral viper
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It's probably a Ghibli film, looking at the style. I don't actually know. But it was a red prop plane vaguely similar to the Baron's Halberstadt DII

minor dew
pure mulch
feral viper
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WWI is a little more nuanced, so I can still admire the soldiers who fought on the other side.

WWII... Less so. For the most part.

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That, is a topic for Wolfenstein however.

Overall point being, I think that Rogue Trader helps emphasise why simplicity can often be a godsend, and why designing for complexity can often make things worse.

minor dew
feral viper
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I have. Not my style of game, but I can definitely see the appeal.

minor dew
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you literally just hold the durection button and pck things up, simpe but brilliant

feral viper
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Yup. And the simplicity of its systems allow those systems to INTERACT in interesting ways.

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Which is something that overly complex systems can't do easily.

minor dew
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can the but, its the question everyones asking

feral viper
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A great example of the unnecessary complexity of Rogue Trader... As a Rogue Trader, you can get various abilities that buff your companions. I got one called 'On my order' or something. It allows me to cause a buffed character to do extra damage when they attack the same target as me. That buff is, if memory serves, equal to my Persuasion Stat /2. But my Persuasion Stat is it's self buffed by my Fellowship stat, to something like Persuasion#+(Fellowship/4)=PersuasionTotal.

minor dew
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yeah i dont like highly intelectual rpg

feral viper
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So to even figure out how much my ability should buff them, I have to first figure out what my EFFECTIVE Persuasion is, because the character sheet only displays my actual stat variable.

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It's... Ugh.

If I didn't get my own ship and get to recruit a rag tag group of 40k misfits I probably wouldn't continue playing

minor dew
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im not stupid but i even lie simpe puzzles like the first uncarted if was like here you cant figure it theres the answer

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haha ive seen this game,doesnt look my style

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how much is it

feral viper
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Don't get me wrong, I ADORE the passion they've put into the world and art, capturing Warhammer 40k so well.

But mechanically, it's complex to the point of convoluted.

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Dunno, I bought it in December.

minor dew
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as i hear you talk maybe i shouldnt

feral viper
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It's sorta the opposite of a TES game for me. Where as I find Bethesda utterly wastes it's setting and has no artistic vision, the raw potential of its mechanical simplicity triggers something in my lizard brain.

On the flip side, the art and style of Rogue Trader is absolutely sublime. But it's mechanics are incredibly tryhard and clunky.

minor dew
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ah probl wouldnt like it then, il see how much it is

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..,footballs starting anyway

feral viper
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It's Olwcat, the same people who made Pathfinder Kingmaker. So that may give you an indication of their style.

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That said. I would die for Yrliet. No one can take my Space Elf treasure from me.

minor dew
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oh its a warhammer game a lot of people like these guys,its £40 though

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looks aight

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see if i get it on offer sometime.

feral viper
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Warhammer is a setting you have to be very careful with. Because it's more expansive than TES by orders of magnitudes, but also very... Touchy.

I love it. Though I hate the more modern trend with the Emperor and the Chaos Gods...

But yeah.

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Attributes in previous games had a similar complexity issue. Different Attributes would contribute to different Skills and different Stats, but it wasn't always clear how or when.

Perks replacing them and handling the specific expressions of what those Attributes used to do is much simpler, much cleaner, and actually far more diverse.

minor dew
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yeah to me the chaos god sound cruel its like what that game

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that stupid rpg final fantasy type where they all have red eyes

feral viper
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They're reflections of negative emotions.

My beef comes from... They used to be products of the state of the galaxy. 'in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war'. So because everyone is hostile and racist and violent, so are the reflections of them in the Warp; the Chaos Gods. If the galaxy was peaceful and cooperative, those same gods would be replaced with peaceful reflections of positive emotions.

The current trend in the setting, though, is that the Chaos Gods are primeval forces of Entropy that predate life, and seek to destroy reality. And only the god like savior of the Emperor of Mankind can stop them!

spare anchor
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As a reminder, this is the Elder Scrolls chat. Please use #off-topic for other games

minor dew
feral viper
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It's... Frankly shallow and tacky.

But that's getting too far off course.

Point being, I think Rogue Trader is a more extreme example of the sort of 'Designing for Complexity' issue that I bring up from time to time.

Skyrim, on the other hand, is Simplicity. And though that simplicity isn't particularly well executed on, it actually offers MORE than the forced complexity does.

minor dew
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I would say if anythin elder scrolls 6 will go more the direction of baldurs gate, which will be more complex, for me personally i would prefer the horor espex or even a final fantasy direction, but that guy that owns this company liked baldurs gate, a firend of a firend told me

nimble pond
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paint? painting? ganja painting the houses red? cool or nahh? you could use any color u want with the custom housing system

feral viper
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Oooh, don't even get me started on colours...

minor dew
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i played like 10 hours of baldurs gate, then i put it on easy, but it ruined the expeirence cause i kept***** wiping

feral viper
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That plays into crafting... And that's one system where I think we need a lot more complexity...

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But most of that complexity would be back-end, making it work. Not in the players face.

minor dew
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it might be fine man

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its like even they do make it complex doesnt mean it still cant work,there probly still be the option of like,dont wanna do thst lets bash stuff down with a sword

minor dew
feral viper
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Oh, yeah. I mean specifically complex in terms of crafting.

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But that largely stems from the fact that I hate how styles and items work in TES. ESO is better, but still... Eh

minor dew
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evr played dragons.like you can still make it sijmplistic whats the name of that game

feral viper
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Dragon Age Inquisition?

minor dew
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nah its a wee ga yone you wouldnt have played itlolo,

feral viper
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Because it's system is better, IMO. Conceptually anyway..

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You pick a type of armour (dictates the stats) you pick a style of armour (dictates the model) you pick a material (dictates the texture/colour). Done.

minor dew
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dargon quest lolol

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let me see if i can find a vid if i can find

feral viper
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Is it more complex than in Skyrim, where you just pick an armour and make it? Yes. But it offers orders of magnitudes more options.

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And that's the core of Keep it Simple. It's not simplicity for its own sake. It's as simple as possible while still accomplishing the task.

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If you fail at the intended task, you went too simple. If you can accomplish the task with fewer steps, you went too complex.

minor dew
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpibyevXU6I just flick it do like a minute, this was simple yet fun maybe they could use something like this is an elder scrolls game, maybe this wouldnt work in an elder scrolls game,maybe theyd just be like press button item made

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wrong vid ***

feral viper
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Ill check it out when I get to a computer.

minor dew
feral viper
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I hate watching stuff on my phone. I don't know how kids these days do it.

minor dew
feral viper
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Good. Gambling is bad for you.

minor dew
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indd

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i mmiss final fantasies man and painting life was much simpler then

feral viper
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Another example of something designed for complexity, and suffering for it, in this case in TES, is Armour. Armour is divided into different classes in order to facilitate different 'Fantasies'. And those classes of armour have baked in modifiers to make them feel distinct.

One such modifier is encumbrance. Heavy Armour encumbers you more than Light Armour does. Seems reasonable, sure. It's Heavier.

But this baked in complexity ends up causing some silly inconsistencies. For instance, the reason is the weight yeah? Well, put it in your back pack. That 120lb suit of plate still weighs the same, but it's not slowing you down anymore.

minor dew
#

for me the more uique armours there are I fell the better

#

weapons too

#

nah man i like all this stuff

#

i think they got this perfect they always have ahd

feral viper
#

If, instead, you just created simple systems that react naturally, you can produce the same sort of thing through their natural interaction.

For instance, weight encumbers you. The basic effect is going to be the same for that armour: 120lbs of plate is going to slow you down, but now that also applies while it's taking up space in your backpack. You get the same intended result, but you also create MORE results from the simpler system.

Burden Spells now do something meaningful.

Having to carry a heavy load has an impact.

Hauling a body suddenly changes up how you think and behave.

By opting for a simpler system that doesn't try to bake in complexity to something else, you end up creating a far more diverse interaction of systems and increase the impact they have.

#

Increasing Carry Weight now also means that you are LESS encumbered, giving you another way to interact with that system.

minor dew
#

like 40 unique weapons 10 yeah armours like cool il use this one then il use that one,,,,,ugh man we can get to in to that we can all carry a house load of armour and keep them in our drawers

#

i actually get picky in them games like alr yon them games these days,its like right im not lifting the iron after level 5

#

oblvion id litally run back and forward to every dungeon lifting every piece of lore

feral viper
#

Yeah... I used to do that in Morrowind.

#

Now though... I don't have time to build an expansive collection of silverware that no merchant wants to buy.

minor dew
#

yep thats a hella a wast time when you get used to these games.

#

right i need to watch the footbal ive missed the first half probly

feral viper
#

Have fun.

vast timber
#

In terms of faction questlines, melee and magic combat, and armor pieces, Oblivion is superior to me

#

I also want the return of the attribute system instead of perks

feral viper
#

In all of those cases... I am on the opposite side of things.

Well... Maybe not the questlines. The STORIES were rubbish, but the quest lines were well paced and felt like they had enough meat to them to feel complete.

vast timber
#

I prefer abilities unlocked by skill level rather than a perk

feral viper
#

And I prefer non-linear progression rather than automatic bonuses. I don't like having every 75 Heavy Armour being exactly the same.

#

I want to be able to express different kinds of Swordsmen. I want to be able to Skip Leg Day. I want to be able to specialise as a Fire Destruction Mage.

#

But Oblivion's approach doesn't allow that. With Skyrim, I could have 5 characters all with identical skill levels, all distinct. With Oblivion, they would all be identical.

Now, that doesn't mean those 5 characters would all be COMPETITIVE, but... Baby steps

vast timber
#

It would be better to unlock duel casting destruction at skill level 40 rather than locked by a perk

feral viper
#

And what if I didn't want to unlock dual casting destruction, but still wanted to level Destruction?

vast timber
#

Don’t use it

feral viper
#

But you still have it there. It's still unlocked. You don't have a choice in the matter.

vast timber
#

Yet I earned it

feral viper
#

The game TELLS you how you progress. Rather than letting you CHOOSE.

vast timber
#

The game FORCES you to use a dam perk

#

I do not want to level again for another perk

feral viper
#

No, of doesn't. Not using it is suboptimal, sure, but it's not forcing you to pick any of them.

#

You can level any skill in Skyrim to 100 without ever buying a single Perk in it. It's not particularly efficient, but you can do it.

#

It's up to you, as the player, how you want your character to progress their skills. Rather than the fake dictating it for you, like Oblivion does.

vast timber
#

Yes it does, it is not fair to have 100 smith level and not be able to craft dragon armor unless unlocked by a perk

#

Because of the temptation of other abilities

feral viper
#

Why? Why can't someone be a master craftsman and still have things they don't know?

vast timber
#

For the duel casting part, you know you can press one hand at a time instead of the same time right?

feral viper
#

Yes, I am aware. But a well designed RPG doesn't require the Player to work around its systems to express new characters.

vast timber
#

Even when the ability is unlocked by skill level, you are NOT forced too

feral viper
#

You CAN just restart and create a new character of a new class, and pretend it's your old character after a profound shift in worldview. But that work around doesn't make Classes less garbage, it simply means that you can work within their clunky imposition if you absolutely have to.

#

Being able to adapt to bad game design, doesn't make it NOT bad game design.

eager remnant
vast timber
feral viper
#

I'll leave it at that though. I don't think this conversation is going to be productive, since we're unlikely to change each others minds.

Personally, I think Oblivion is basically irredeemable bad in... Well, basically every way. But especially mechanically, it simply is devoid of value and one of the worst RPGs I have ever played.

eager remnant
feral viper
#

The easy road, I want to master everything without thinking about it approach that you seem to want, is entirely anathema to what I see as being an RPG. So I personally don't want anything like that in an RPG.

vast timber
vast timber
feral viper
feral viper
#

Well, Action Adventure, technically.

vast timber
#

When I say perks, I mean as in not as a substitute for attributes.

#

Attributes like speed, agility, strength, endurance

feral viper
#

Also things I wouldn't want back. At least, not how Oblivion did them. They were just another mindless Number Go Up! dynamic that was too universal and not interesting.

#

Though I can't blame Oblivion for that, since it's Attribute System was identical to Morrowind's. So Morrowind is to blame there.

vast timber
#

With Skyrim’s perk system, strength is replaced with combat based perks like armsman, two handed, marksman separated

feral viper
#

Yup. Letting you 'Skip Leg Day' and represent different sorts of strong characters.

#

Instead of every strong character being exactly the same

vast timber
#

Yet choose the weapon type you want and experiment with good strength level

feral viper
#

Who can also carry 500lbs bench press the sky, and make Arnie look like Steve Urkle. Which is the universality problem.

vast timber
#

Let’s say I am an old school traditional then.

#

Don’t get me wrong, I do like Skyrim, but sometimes I do miss the traditional things

feral viper
#

I am old school, but very anti-traditional. I don't care how things were in the past, if the new approach is better* then the past solutions be damned.

#

*Better is often subjective, mind you.

vast timber
feral viper
#

In terms of RPGs 'Better' means (to me) 'Accommodates more potential Character Identities'.

vast timber
#

And since Better is subjective according to you, than some old things are better than some new things

#

New can be good but as long it does not erase originality of a franchise

feral viper
#

Well, then we'd be going back to Arena... Which is unrecognizable compared to Morrowind and Oblivion

vast timber
livid ingot
#

What do you guys think of skill degradation? As in, not using a skill causes it to fall over time (especially if you're learning new skills) with some sort of floor to replicate the ease at picking back up a former skill. The goal would be to let specialists achieve higher heights, and generalists to maintain a broad skillset.

feral viper
# vast timber Do you like the idea of a voiced protagonist for TES6?

Oh lordy no. But that's more about the breath of what it would need to cover, practically, given the more free-form character identities in TES. If they went with a more set character, a voiced PC would be more appropriate.

But I see no way to really do it practically given the current tech.

vast timber
feral viper
vast timber
livid ingot
feral viper
#

That isn't really viable. Yet anyway.

vast timber
#

If a TES 6 happens, there should be a faction quest line to Rebuild a faction like restoring the mages guild and becoming Arch-mage of it.

#

According to Skyrim lore, the mages guild was disbanded

feral viper
#

I think that sort of narrative could actually be very well suited to implementing a variation of Settlements in TES6.

#

But, i can't go into detail right now, have to thin out carrots or they'll never grow right...

vast timber
#

I have a story prediction for TES VI that it be about the restoration of the daggerfall covenant

#

Or the game will have us start as a ‘Refugee’ instead of a prisoner

livid ingot
#

Emulating the changing of jobs/careers

feral viper
#

Yes. I've grown more and more disenfranchised with Classes as a concept over the years.

#

In effect, I think they try to do too much; what you've done, what you're good at, and what you want to learn, all at once.

And in doing so, they end up not doing any of them well, and cause too many identity limiting problems.

livid ingot
#

Well, a good skill degradation system could possibly facilitate that. 🤔

#

Insert John Wick fanfiction where your background is an assassin to start the game, then you reform your ways and become a monk, and then your dog dies and you can more quickly reacquire your former skills (albeit with a little work)

#

I could even see an experience boost for leveling up 'floored' skills

feral viper
#

Yeah, that one of the things I've played with in the past. Unfortunately it's one of the things that's really difficult to nail down without practical testing.

#

Like, Skyrim's approach is to slow Skill progression of your lower skills in favour of (I think) your 5 highest. The goal is to encourage specialisation.

It definitely didn't scale that ENOUGH, but without without being able to playtest different values on both, it's hard to tell which yields the better outcome.

feral viper
#

Thinking about it, one game that DOES use declining skills is Rimworld. Though it really only becomes something you think about in colonies with very few colonists (and thus a need to try and have people do multiple roles) or very long running ones.

So it sorta highlights a second issue with the approach in that you need to consider the timescale of the game and how other things work. If, for instance, you're looking more at the Daggerfall size of world, and timescales... Do you lose skill levels while traveling from city to city? It can sometimes take weeks to cross the map, in-game time. Do your skills depreciate then?

lavish herald
#

elder scrolls 6 when

feral viper
#

Sometime between Now, and Half-life 3

pale walrus
minor dew
minor dew
#

4 hours to do wnload 15 gigbybes what is going on man my life hurts

feral viper
#

Hah... Whippersnapper

glass marlin
#

The younglings who don't know the horrors of dial-up internet.

feral viper
#

Mmhmm

#

2 hours to download the Adamantoum Helm plugin for Morrowind

nimble pond
#

I loved playing fps games on dial-up 56k

#

I could toss a grenade, then run to the other side of the map to catch it

wide garnet
vast timber
#

I am finally getting into PC gaming and got Arena for free in Steam. However I did not see Daggerfall 😧

feral viper
#

It should be on there for free. May just have to search it directly.

feral viper
#

Ok, so. Based on the conversation the other day, I thought it may be a good time to dig up an old dead horse.

Attributes!

#

So, I love the concept of Attributes. Representations of your bodily characteristics, rather than your knowledge.

However, as I've gotten older and more thoughtful, I've grown to really hate the old (and by and large the more common) approaches to them. They lack expressivity and specifics, treating these things as general all-round universals rather than the diverse and specific things they are.

#

For example, typically when you get a point of Strength, you get Increased Melee Damage, Increased Carry Weight, and Increased Strength-Check Thresholds.

Which is fine, in a very general sense, but it's not how things REALLY work. In reality, you could invest all your strength training into a single arm, resulting in that weirdo from Lady in the Water.

eager remnant
#

I'm actually fond of the approach taken by Fallout 4, where assigning points into an Attribute opens up a line of perks associated with that Attribute. But, as you point out, the Attributes themselves would need a lot of revision first.

feral viper
#

Yeah. Which is, in fact, what contributed a bit to my examinations.

#

Having Attribute related Trees that allow you to express certain characteristics.

The question then becomes... How do you unlock and progress in these trees?

#

That train of thought led to me approaching it from the opposite direction. What if, instead of Attributes influencing Skills... Skills drove the Attributes.

By that, I mean, the particular way you choose to develop your skills, drives the attributes you develop whole doing so.

So if you decide to focus on raw brute damage in Melee Skills, you're obviously purchasing mostly Strength Based Perks and focusing on Strength.

If, however, you want to be a deft and agile Fencer, you're instead focusing on Agility Based Perks.

Same Skill, different ways to develop it, and different Attribute expressions in the process.

#

In this way, you could effectively have any Skill contributing to developing any Attribute. No longer does a Mage HAVE to be Smart, or a Warrior HAVE to be strong.

#

Which is all well and good conceptually, but the mechanics of it are what would need to be sorted out to reflect that concept.

pale walrus
#

Speaking about this in loose terms: the 'correct' attributes/perks/skills system is one where I can either hyperspecialize (turn my PC into a Tank, Merlin, the ultimate thief or assassin or whatever) or I can spread my capabilities out, becoming a jack of all trades but master of none (or perhaps really really good at a small set of capabilities while an amateur or journeyman for the rest.) In other words, I don't want to be forced into a class, but I also don't want a system that allows me to be super perfect at everything. THere needs to be CONSEQUENCES for choices in PC development.

ember light
#

Think its possible that ES6 could have the entire map of Tamriel playable?

glass marlin
#

Highly doubtful.

livid ingot
#

Not something we would really want either. Imagine a game world just slightly larger than Skyrim... that contains every single province.

#

Every province would just have a single town lol

eager remnant
#

The size of the game world of TES VI will almost certainly be significantly larger than Skyrim. Fallout 76 is four times larger (and soon to be even larger still). So I think it's reasonable to expect a game world on that scale, and possibly larger. But I doubt we will see the entire continent of Tamriel.

ember light
#

I would love the whole map just for the chance to see post eruption/etc. Morrowind. It would almost have to be more than one region at this point. My quiet hope is at the very least we get the entirety of Southern Tamriel (Valenwood, Elsweyr, Black Marsh and maybe Summerset as the Aldemeri Dominion will probably be a big part of it presumably)

eager remnant
# ember light I would love the whole map just for the chance to see post eruption/etc. Morrowi...

I think they could do a good job with landscapes. The diversity of biomes in Starfield is truly impressive. And Starfield's flora and fauna (and some of its architecture design) is the most imaginative work they've done since Morrowind.

The biggest problem would be representing cultural differences between provinces. Cultural differences were entirely absent in Oblivion and nearly so in Skyrim. They would have to step up their game if those provinces are to feel culturally distinct.

vast timber
#

I heard a rumor a while ago about a possible Oblivion remaster. I hope it’s true!

pale walrus
pale walrus
pale walrus
pearl ether
#

Hello I have a problem with skyrim

#

With the quest the pursuit

feral viper
#

It's worth noting, of course, that prior to the Dragonborn expansion for Skyrim, it was the first game since ARENA where it was explicitly impossible to master everything. Though, it was functionally possible in Daggerfall as well, even if technically possible.

feral viper
pearl ether
#

I runned the game and I took mercer's plans and crystalgide before the quest the pursuit and she doesn't appear in the liste and now i'm blocked I can't continue the thieves guild

feral viper
#

Hmm... PC or Console?

pearl ether
#

Console

livid ingot
violet lily
#

(Zenimax Online is not the same game-making group as Bethesda Game Studios)

pearl ether
#

Please help

livid ingot
#

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_76

Fallout 76

Fallout 76 is a 2018 action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. It is an installment in the Fallout series and a prequel to previous entries. Initially set in the year 2102, players control a resident of Vault 76 who must venture out into the dilapidated open world known as "Appalachia"...

wide garnet
violet lily
livid ingot
rose fjord
#

Do you think that es6 will come to Xbox series x

livid ingot
rose fjord
feral viper
pearl ether
#

Bro

#

Useless

feral viper
#

Hey now, it's not my fault you play on objectively the worst way to play video games.

pearl ether
#

Lmao

spare anchor
#

Just deleting the gif as it's a bit stroby

feral viper
#

Fair enough. My connection is kinda the pits here, so it wouldn't even play for me.

rose fjord
#

I think they’ll announce es6 at summer games fest 2025 and do like a future games list 12 months limit what do you think

pale walrus
rose fjord
rose fjord
feral viper
#

2026 is optimistic, IMO.

#

But it's also a frequent topic that still has zero actual information to back any date, and therefore isn't particularly productive.

rose fjord
#

Why was my statement deleted

spare plaza
#

Messages that are deleted are against #rules . If you need clarification/concerns about them, please contact us via DMing @vast rain

spare anchor
#

We do not allow the sharing of or discussion about rumors, datamined content, or any other unofficial information that has not been officially released or shared. This applies to ZeniMax, Bethesda, and any associated companies and games.

rose fjord
rose fjord
#

I wish they would tell us what platforms es6 will be on instead of waiting years

livid ingot
bitter kestrel
#

Let's bring this back to Elder Scrolls please meowthumbsup

feral viper
#

Indeed.

To wheel back to my previous point...

In essence, I think most systems handle Attributes from the wrong direction. They take an increase in Attribute, and apply it to all expressions of that concept. In contrast, they should be taking an expression of that concept, and applying it as an increase to that attribute.

#

Strength is always the easiest example to use for this, because it is the most straight forward and easy to understand.

But in essence, if you buy one rank of Armsman, you get 1 point of Strength. This is something that I initially started to tinker with after Dragon Age Inquisition, in which your abilities came with Stat-Bonuses, but in a more direct and straight forward way.

#

With this approach, you can attach ANY Perk that reflects a particular expression of a concept. Attack speed bonus? Agility. Critical hit? Intelligence. Weight reduction for equipped armour? Strength.

#

In this way, you could in principle include every Attribute in every Skill (though it would be more difficult practically) and significantly diversify the TYPES of characters you can express within the system.

#

The question then becomes, 'Whats the point?'. If you've already handled all the expressions of an Attribute within a particular usage through the Perks in the first place, why bother even tracking the aggregate values?

You can do the convoluted solution, making those Attribute related Perks influenced by your Aggregates (for instance, Armsman could do Damage +Str*.25-PerRank or something. So the more points in Strength you have across the build, the more value you're getting out of each of those perks.

But that can quickly spiral into Rogue Trader territory and get cumbersome.

glacial aspen
#

I really hope for TES VI they improve melee combat which has stayed largely the same from TES V > Starfield in terms of general feel.

-Bring back spears

  • Button combos for weapon types- rhythmic+ light/heavy
  • Hit stop to improve impact
    -Parry/timed blocks
    -Grapple enemies
    -Kicks

Ranged:
-Bows and crossbows both feel great in Skyrim and feel there’s less room for improvement there. But some enemy animations when getting hit would be cool
-Throwing knives
-Alchemy fire pots and poisons

Magic
-Destruction add reverb to explosions, powerful spells topple enemies.
-Arcs to some projectiles could be neat maybe on AoE spells
-Utility added to alteration such as movement speed and jumping
-Have enchantments for fire/ice/lightning but also oils in alchemy to light swords and arrows on fire

feral viper
#

As far as Melee combat goes (all of these are a topic in and of themselves) I could take it leave Spears. While I like them as an option, of they are just a visual skin and have no functional value to differentiate them from other weapon types, then they aren't worth the effort.

I'm against combo-combat as a rule. Didn't like it in Skyrim, didn't like it in Wild Hunt, didn't like it in Warframe, didn't like it in any Fromsoft game... It's all flash and no substance, at BEST resulting in Animation or Pattern Cancelling behaviour to get the attack you want, when you want it. Give me a system where I dictate the sort of attack i want to make, when I want to make it.

Parrying and proper blocking i am all for. The fact that Minecraft, MINECRAFT, has had parrying since 2010 and no version of TES does, is simply ludicrous.

Grappling is... Clunky. I like the idea, but I have yet to see a game do it in any reasonable way.

Kicking is another thing that I am entirely on board for. Dark Messiah did it, and it was amazing. A properly developed system where you have specific TYPES of attacks that behave in specific ways, and thus have specific utility, would be great.

fleet vine
#

So,I guess Oblivion remaster rumours were true?

feral viper
#

Last I heard, it is still a rumour.

Though why you'd want to remaster that is utterly beyond me. Cheap cash grab for nostalgia and that's that about it.

fleet vine
#

Yes...but...it is what it is...

#

Nostalgia weights a lot...in me like a lot

#

Im replaying 0blivion now with Ladt Seed modlist and hey...not easy...a lot of memories...

feral viper
#

The one good line of New-Star Wars...

fleet vine
#

True,but this would be just a remaster...

fleet vine
feral viper
#

I am against Remasters on principe.

fleet vine
#

Well I would prefer to be playing TESVII right now...but we are still waiting for TESVI

feral viper
#

If I am ever inclined to play an old game, I will play an old game. In fact, I do regularly. Every November I replay the Quest for Glory series. Takes a bit to get them running, but that's the labour of love that comes with nostalgia.

#

To me, Remasters embody the rank corporate greed that festers in the industry. Total creative bankruptcy and minimal effort being made to squeeze every last penny possible out of a title.

Its not a gesture of good will, it's an insult. Either put the effort into a Remake, or move on and make something new.

#

Like a lazy house flip. Slap a new coat of paint on, change some fixtures to make it pretty, and put it back on the market for some other sot to have to deal with the rot underneath.

fleet vine
#

Well,I agree. But I guess im being too much nostalgic these days.

feral viper
#

I will admit, I have to actively NOT be nostalgic. Even being ideologically opposed to it, it still gnaws at you. Probably because of just how garbage human memory is, and how it works.

fleet vine
#

Ot maybe just because you were happier back then...

feral viper
#

I was ignorant back then. And ignorance is bliss.

fleet vine
#

Dude...

#

I was ignorant but happier

feral viper
#

I'll take the pain of knowledge over blissful ignorance though. At least knowledge gives you the means to effect change.

fleet vine
#

My life is not as happy now as it wad lets say in 2006

#

Yes but sometimes you are just not as happy as before...even having more knowledge or being more resilient...stoic..

feral viper
#

Oh, I understand that. But, there is only forward.

fleet vine
#

Anyway Im happy if its your case 😉

#

Yes...what to do

feral viper
#

Unless you're a multibillion dollar game company. Then you can just repeat the same greatest hits over and over.

feral viper
#

Of course, it's worth noting too that I HATE Oblivion. It was, IMO, the single biggest step backwards in the franchise, and offers nothing of real value for future games. Both in TES, and RPGs as a whole.

And it hasn't improved over time, while my standards have gotten higher in return. So the fact that I am increasingly less harsh on it than I was only reinforces, to me, how insidious Nostalgia is as a force.

livid ingot
#

Nostalgia is a poison.

#

But Oblivion still has its strong points in comparison with other games in the series. I still admit to loving Oblivion. But ever since my first playthrough I have modded the crap out of it, easily maxing out the mod limit, so that should say a lot about its shortcomings. As opposed to Skyrim, which early in its history I thought didn't really need many mods and only lightly modded it. Though that was a decade ago. If I played it now I would probably mod it to death to make a new experience out of it.

feral viper
pale walrus
#

Was very unimpressed with magic in Skyrim. It left me with the impression that it was just a colorful substitute for firearms while also being somewhat impotent. A wizard/warlock/sorceror should be frightening, with spells that are intimidating and awe-inspiring.

glass marlin
#

Yeah I feel magic in Skyrim took a major downgrade, but idk if that was because of mechanic changes for combat or if it was to fit the theme of Skyrim.

eager remnant
glass marlin
#

Oh?

livid ingot
#

I think it's strongest point is the quests. Oblivion had a lot of unique and memorable quests. Indeed a lot of small, interesting side quests. Daggerfall, Morrowind, and even Skyrim I think pale in comparison. Another strong point for Oblivion - despite how disfigured and bad (so bad it's good I'd argue) the Radiant A.I. system turned out be, it still feels considerably better than what we got in Skyrim and of course the other titles. The written conversations in Skyrim are objectively better than any random NPC convo in Oblivion. But they rapidly depreciate in value the longer you play the game. Not only are the random conversations more fun, but the A.I. had considerably more freedom in Oblivion. Skyrim feels more scripted, and less organic.
There are the two points where I feel Oblivion did better than any other game.

#

Yes, I will defend Radiant AI with my life, while condemning Radiant Quests until my dying breath

feral viper
#

I'm with Pseron on this one. While I do find Magic in Skyrim quite lacking, different spells at least FEEL different from one another.

Previously, a projectile spell behaved like a projectile spell. End of story. Didn't matter if it was a fireball or a levitate shot or a charm person. Point, click, ball goes out and hits the target.

Skyrim on the other hand integrated more diverse behaviours and effects to make each spell distinct. It doesn't have enough of them, true, but at least they're not all just different colours of the same thing, that apply an effect on impact.

feral viper
# livid ingot I think it's strongest point is the quests. Oblivion had a lot of unique and mem...

I have very much the opposite opinion on the conversations. Well, and the quests, but at least there I'll grant that they are better paced, even if the content is dreadful.

For the conversations though... They always felt just terrible. True, the atrocious voice direction those poor actors were given contributed, but it made every single town feel like some dystopian animatronic theme park from what the 1970s thought the future would be.

livid ingot
#

like some dystopian animatronic theme park from what the 1970s thought the future would be.
Still seems more fun than what we got in TES V. Honestly Skyrim feels like it tried to rely on first impressions in the characterization of its towns and cities. We are given unique scenes for our first-time visits, and all the conversations they put in game are best heard once. After that towns become pretty boring and stagnant for the most part. Maybe I'm putting too much of this onto the conversations though rather than the overall freer behavior that was given to the NPCs.
I think Skyrim's introduction of music though its bards and the addition of jobs like the lumber mills definitely helped make the world more alive and lived in. So it's not a total loss. But as a whole I think Skyrim's cities and towns were pretty disappointing. I wanted to see Radiant A.I. improved, not cut back even further.

bright siren
#

So, I just finished my playthrough of Redguard!

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Certainly hasn’t aged well, though it wasn’t as bad I was expecting.

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I found the writing to be fairly enjoyable, even if the voice acting left something to be desired at times.

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For a linear action game I was pleasantly surprised at how nonlinear some things were.

livid ingot
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Yeah! Redguard is a little gem in the rough, as it were

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I think if Bethesda attempted something like it again, a linear action-adventure set in the TES world, it would be welcome

bright siren
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For sure! Would be cool to see Bethesda or maybe another Microsoft developer expand on the series with games like that again

pale walrus
# bright siren For sure! Would be cool to see Bethesda or maybe another Microsoft developer exp...

I like this idea. Such smaller scale games can keep the player base engaged and open up opportunities to tell limited stories in provinces that aren't explored (or only partially.) For instance - you are a Penitus Oculatus agent investigating Thalmor spying activity in HR, and you discover Thalmor agents are planning a set of strategic assassinations in an attempt to precipitate a political crisis and potential civil war in the province, with your new task being to foil the plot. OR: you're an Imperial emissary, sent to Black Marsh to re-establish contacts after the province seccession from the Imperium. While there, you discover several plots involving the Maormer, the Thalmor, the Hist and the Dunmer, and you have to keep the situation from blowing up.

pale walrus
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What I'm getting at is that not every ES title should be a massive map and a main quest oriented around a world-menacing event. Smaller stories can be very compelling and have a charm all their own, if well developed. Also, such games should be easier to develop.

eager remnant
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As long as BGS doesn't make the titles I suppose I could support the idea.

pale walrus
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Ya know, you bring something to mind. Why hasn't BGS adopted a 'base title with many DLC over a long period of time' approach? After all, ESO is making money with that. This would make long delays (greater than 5 years) much more tolerable while providing a steady stream of revenue. That could be either an alternative or in addition to the seperate smaller ES titles I suggested above (the more linear ones.)

eager remnant
# pale walrus Ya know, you bring something to mind. Why hasn't BGS adopted a 'base title with ...

In his interview with MrMattyPlays last month Howard implies they are indeed evolving an approach similar to this. He begins by saying he wishes they had supported Skyrim longer. Then he goes on to say, "We went into 76 knowing this is a game we're going to support for as long as we can. Starfield we go into that knowing the same thing And as we go into Elder Scrolls 6 you gotta start now by thinking about like a 10 year horizon. How do we support a game for that long."

Later in the interview they have this exchange:
MrMattyPlays: Would you say you're aiming to do an annual story expansion every year?
Howard: More or less, yeah. How long that continues...hopefully a very long time.

nimble pond
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Woooooooooooooooooo

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Oops

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Drunkenness in TES. And chems for that matter. Like a mage on skooma should idk, pack a bit more heat, but at the same time, risk catching themselves on fire if not well-experienced with such substances. Same for like melee and all that or unarmed, etc. ya know. And maybe some more interesting/intriguing perks in that regard besides combat.

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Basically I'm saying a skill. Only the most experienced drunkards will reap the most benefits 😆

nimble pond
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Maybe a guild as well that deals in this area. I could create my own favorite custom TES brew.

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Weapon craftsmanship has been brought up before, but honestly I think it's something that could really shine in TES more than in any other game and with it's medival background. Would really like to see it expanded on, it could be so much better than just grindstones and much more customability to absolutely tailor the weapon to your uniquely created character and roleplay. Shape of the blade, weight, curve, material, hilt, method, all that. 99% of the time in these games I'm slaying something, so let the weapon of choice be a personal signature.

feral viper
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I think, as far as crafting goes, a slightly more simplistic approach may be able to comfortably handle enough diversity to make it functionally near infinite.

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For instance, you design a Template at, say, a Drafting Table (which is a workstation you use to design recipes).

To create a Template, you first choose an item Type. This dictates the Mesh and material amount needed for the Template. It also dictates the general behaviour. So if you pick a Chair, it will function as a Chair. If you pick a Longsword, it will function as a medium-reach 2-handed sword.

Then once you have the Type, you pick the Parts. This determines the visual model of the different components of the item. So for a Sword, you could pick between the Blade, Guard and Hilt as Parts. For a Chair, you could pick between Arms, Seat and Legs. allowing you to mix and match styles as you desire.

Once you've done that, you've created a Recipe. There are a couple different ways that you could gate Recipes to prevent having too many of them being cumbersome, but that's a bit of a side topic.

When you actually CRAFT the item, you select the recipe, then you select the Materials. You could have them use a single material (such as a Wood or Metal) or you could divide it up into categories that allow you to combine them (Primary, Secondary, Embellishment). But the point here is that the Material applies modifiers to the stats of the item based on the materials, as well as the final texture map.

In this way, if you wanted an Axe with a Ayleid Winged Head, a Nordic Totem Hilt, and a Breton Spikes Flange, made of Ebony. Or a Wayrest Highbacked Chair with Dunmeri daedric-clawed arms and Eldenroot root-legs made of solid silver... You could do that.

vast timber
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One of my favorite DLCs in oblivion of all time is the shivering isles. I like the fact that I become the ruler of the realm as the new Sheo at the end. I wish more games would do that

stuck minnow
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Remeber skyrim was released on the 11th month of the 11th day on the 11th year, so bethesda may release elder scrolls 6 on the 6th month of 2026 on the 6th day

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PEACE AND LOVE EVERYONE

feral viper
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They wouldn't dare. Nov 11 was bad enough, but scheduling a game to release on D-Day as a gimmick would be just insulting

wide garnet
forest surge
feral viper
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Yeah. 11/11/11 was bad enough that I was surprised it managed to get past brain storming. Not only is Nov 11 a holiday in 60 countries, but it's a dedication to peace, veterans, and the sacrifice of service members around the world.

And they turned it into a gimmick release date

stuck minnow
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Guys i didnt know that was d-day, guess they wouldnt peaceout

feral viper
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It's ok. D-Day isn't a major celebration in most places.

The issue would be more the message it would send. Relegating two releases of major military commemorations to gimmicky release dates would not be a good look.

Though, it would be the sort of marketing I kinda expect.

nimble pond
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666 is probably not a good number to release on... 🤣

feral viper
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Six six six, the number of the beast
Hell and fire was spawned to be released

pale walrus
pale walrus
feral viper
pale walrus
nimble pond
forest surge
pale walrus
pale walrus
# forest surge They need to do Worldbuilding for Starfield, the base game heavily lacked it

Based on what Pseron wrote above, it seems like BGS is thinking the same way and will likely be providing a steady diet of DLC over possibly a decade to 'build out' the 1000 world universe of SF. I have deliberately sat on the sidelines and have not bought SF out of concerns that it would be a disappointment on first release. It seems to me that it's on the same track as ESO (yes, made by ZoS) and FO76, which both received significant negative feedback on their debuts but which have since recovered quite well with multiple well-received content additions. I have high hopes for SF, and if ES6 follows the same route, I think it's good news for all of us (though it would be ideal if ES6 was already a fantastic game in its first release.)

glass marlin
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God I hope they bring back H2H in ES6.

wild rivet
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I hope it will come out before the death of my grandkids

pale walrus
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That could be mighty interesting. But we musn't expect perfection in whatever they come up with. Think about it - even a highly skilled martial artist in the real world is well advised to run away from a guy with a knife. An unarmed man - even Bruce Lee of the fictional Pai Mei - is going to be in extreme peril against even a moderately skilled opponent in armor and wielding a weapon.

nimble pond
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Wrong, they are advised to run away from Bruce 😂

pale walrus
# nimble pond Wrong, they are advised to run away from Bruce 😂

Bruce Lee sure was a lot of fun to watch. Tremendous martial artist. I remember that he had a very unique foot positioning - leading with his left, and standing on the ball of his right with an awkward-looking cant. Turns out he picked that up from.....EUROPEAN FENCING. It's part of a stance that provides explosive forward acceleration. He was very inquisitive, experimental and adaptable, always seeking the best techniques from a very broad array of martial traditions. An impressive intellect.

feral viper
# forest surge They need to do Worldbuilding for Starfield, the base game heavily lacked it

There's also a general issue with themeatics and... Well... Whatever the heck is going on.

Starfield has... A lot of problems. But it does establish enough of a mystery and foundation to develop on. And that COULD support long term development and support.

It could alternately have basically just served as an open playground to add to as time went on, being big enough that you could have hundreds of self contained stories.

pale walrus
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Off topic: you know what kind of DLC I'd do for SF? I'd pick out some distant world whose star system is reputed to be a 'graveyard' for starships - a kind of interstellar Bermuda Triangle. And that's the place where I'd create a world that is heavily inspired by the original Unreal. That could be SO MUCH FUN!

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OK, back on topic - I'll talk about ES next post. Promise. 🙂

feral viper
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TES is a bit different. Long term support runs a serious risk of making the base game feel unfinished or unfulfilling.

Alternatively, it could run the risk of feeling very disjointed and lacking any cultural or narrative cohesion. Further undermining the shaky (or nonexistent) identity of the region in question.

OR it could run I to the MMO problem, where crisis after crisis after crisis wears on the suspension of disbelief, and you start to wonder how anyone is still alive in the world.

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The is just a lot that could go wrong with such an approach in the context of TES, that isn't as prevalent in a far more expansive setting like Starfield. Where you have, at least in principle, tens of billions of people scattered across hundreds of worlds.

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I think, if you were to take that approach, you'd want to first double down on the 'Main Story' of the game. The Heroic Arc that embodies the culture, mythology and setting that everything else circles around.

Using Skyrim as an example, this would be the Dragonborn's questline.

Make THAT feel like a full game in and of its self. We're talking something like twice the length of Starfield's main story.

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With that out of the way, fill the world with side quests and minor stories that are largely self contained, or circle that main narrative but aren't explicitly liked to it. As an example for Skyrim, saving a farm from Dragon Attacks, Mjoll's Lost Sword, Potema, etc.

forest surge
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The worry is now Game Companies adding stuff in later to make a complete game rather than making the game a complete full course meal with Dessert soon after in DLC

feral viper
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That would be the 'Base Game'. Basically the Main Quest, and a body of side activities.

You then dedicate an ENTIRE expansion to a Faction or other complex storyline one at a time. Adding to the narrative options within the game world while using the greater focus to build on the justification and explanation.

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For instance, instead of having a 10 quest Fighters Guild in the base game, you have a 30 quest guild as an expansion. The base game it's self still has those areas and buildings, they're just rundown, and the DLC is about the Guild moving back in and rebuilding.

feral viper
forest surge
forest surge
pale walrus
# feral viper For instance, instead of having a 10 quest Fighters Guild in the base game, you ...

EXACTLY. The base game should already be fulfilling and complete. A string of DLC don't need to be about world-shattering threats in the way Dragonborn and Dawnguard were. They can be more mundane but still compelling adventures. Example: picking up on Gin's Khajiit skooma/chem crime syndicate, you could set up a DLC in...Rihad. The khajiit mobsters are cutting a deal with the dominant Redguard mafia, getting clearance thru the docks at the main port and having the local mob act as the distribution network. Along the way, they are bribing public officials (the mayor, judges, cops) and assassinating those who resist. You get embroiled in this and try to unravel and destroy the network, running into crooked officialdom, malicious third parties like the Thalmor who want to draw a hand in the game, and so forth.

feral viper
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Yeah. We will see with Shattered Space. But I am not optimistic.

Bethesda in the past has been... Rather iffy when it comes to the scope and execution of DLC. Morrowind was great. Oblivion was meh. Skyrim was up and down.

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IF I were to write a plan for Hammerfell as a province, I would start with the main quest. The first expansion would be about the Fighters Guild rebuilding. The second, about the College of Whispers moving into the area to try and study the Dwemer ruins. The third, about a rising piracy problem coming from the pirate havens in the ruins of Yokuda. And the final one would be a Dominion invasion.

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That gives you a full expansion dedicated to each of the main archetypes (Fighters, Mages, Thieves) and a final political conclusion that ties up the regions narrative.

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And no, I am not including the Dark Brotherhood because... You know why.

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But the key is that each needs to feel narratively complete, offer enough content to be engaging, and not feel like it's actively stolen from the base game to nickle and dime players. While the base game it's self needs to feel cohesive and engaging in its own right.

And well... Based on Starfield, I am not sure Bethesda is up to that task.

pale walrus
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But I completely agree with your approach. This sounds perfect for actually giving a title 10 years of life. I would love to see something like this.

glass marlin
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Man how are we even going to have the Dark Brotherhood come ES6? Even after the events of the questline, the guild is still in a horrible spot right now.

feral viper
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Good.

pale walrus
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Well, remember: Sithis is the patron of the DB, and the Night Mother might actually be Mephala. Sithis is concerned with Chaos, while Mephala weaves a web of fate. Thus, there is purpose behind the DB (though it's not obvious to me what the purpose might be.) If the DB disappears, something else will replace it - maybe a death cult modeled after the devotees of Kali. In other words, anything that replaces the DB will be something worse - more sinister, more evil, likely fanatical. Personally I think the DB will be revived in ES6, but in a nastier form.

forest surge
feral viper
hidden herald
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Could have them all die out, and someone restarts it by reading their books

nimble pond
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What like a group of lichs running the dark brotherhood?

hidden herald
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Nah, just fans that decided to restart it altogether.

feral viper
pale walrus
# nimble pond What like a group of lichs running the dark brotherhood?

There's another way. If the last DB bro croaked, Sithis and Mephala could (metaphysically) scour the darkest corners of Tamriel to find just the right kind of psychopath. This warped individual would receive a 'revelation' that would captivate his mind and cause him to seek out the Night Mother, who would give him further instructions on where to go and how to behave in order to recruit new acolytes with the 'right stuff.' We'd wind up with a DB that maybe had both a different name and a far more sinister tone. In fact, the PC should initially be a target of the new DB, and only if he did something for the DB that was particularly vile would they consider recruiting him. That recruitment, however, should be undependable, with the risk that the new DB turns on the recruit being quite high (just notice how Gus Fring and the Cartel were at each other's throats most of the time, with the members all scheming and plotting.) The DB we've seen has been about as threatening and intimidating as Milli Vanilli. We need a group that is far more frightening.

hidden herald
nimble pond
# pale walrus There's another way. If the last DB bro croaked, Sithis and Mephala could (metap...

I remember when I was young and heard the name. I thought it was gonna be like throwing people into this dark room where the shadows literally reach out and consume victims thrown into it. Listening to the screams of horror behind the closed door. No one truly knows what happens in the room of shadows, because no one ever survives it's wrath. But after spending the night locked in, either they die or come out nuttier than peanut butter and missing their very soul as if they've been drained of it, only for it to be turned to shadow and join the rest.

feral viper
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Alright, here's a little game... Which I promise has a point, but we'll see how it goes and whether or not I can emphasise the point with it...

If you had to describe the last 3 mainline TES games with a single word, what would it be?

For instance:

Morrowind - Mystery

Oblivion - Romanticism

Skyrim - Despair

clear garden
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Yall think the starfield ships can be repurposed into boats for tesvi?

feral viper
wide garnet
feral viper
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And overhaul how targeting works, overhaul how momentum works, overhaul how movement works, totally remove Thrusters...

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And that's without even touching Shipbuilding.

pale walrus
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Morrowind - Dream

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Oblivion - Blandness

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Skyrim - Thu'um!

feral viper
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Little more venomous than intended, but I appreciate the effort.

pale walrus
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Wait, don't take it that way. By 'Dream', I meant Morrowind was like a fantastic, highly imaginative and creative vision - extremely impressive and enjoyable. Oblivion, by contrast, was like watching paint dry or grass grow. There have been golf games more gripping than Oblivion. Skyrim for me was all about the Voice and Shouting, a furious rebellion against all the decay, ruin and misery that was so very evident within the spectacular scenery of the province.

feral viper
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And that's totally fair, and in keeping with the game.

I suppose I should explain my selection too.

feral viper
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By Mystery, I mean, Morrowind is Mysterious. No matter your background, it's strange and exotic, and invites delving into the unknown. Even it's limited draw distance contributes to the idea that's there's something strange and interesting to explore over the next hill.

By Romanticism, I mean Oblivion embodies the style and feel of the Romantic Movement. It's vibrant colours, nostalgic design, and inviting warmth reflects the style and it's general aversion to negativity. Even undead and demons (Daedra) are almost cherubic and welcoming.

By Despair, I mean Skyrim is bleak, depressing, and consumed with a sense of the world spiraling out of control and a desperate attempt to stop the spin. It's muted palette, bleak environs and narratives focused on an encroaching cultural and social darkness. There is a sense of despair and hopelessness in almost every story and environment, like the world is rotting at its core.

feral viper
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Unfortunately, considering the concept art that went into Skyrim... I don't think we can take anything from even this stage of concept.

Because the end result was almost nothing like the art.

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We can hope. Though... A lot needs to be done over previous games to make underwater environments worth it.

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It's more than just slapping a filter on the screen and basically making Levitation style movement.

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Starfield's microgravity interactions may have been a testbed for the engine to handle that sort of thing in an actually meaningful way.

livid ingot
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Imagine having more than 1 water enemy ||Daggerfall and Morrowind don't have to imagine||

feral viper
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Imagine a Hammerfell version of Black reach, half flooded by invading Sload who have set up shop in flooded Dwemer ruins to steal the corpses of Hammerfell dead.

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But still, it would sort of highlight a mechanical problem with more underwater stuff... Combat. Couldn't do it at all in Skyrim, and with at least decent reasoning.

Water resistance basically cripples your ability to use most weapons. Try swinging a sword or an axe underwater. You're not going to get enough momentum to really do any sort of damage. Thrusting, maybe, but that's about it.

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So it either requires just totally ignoring that element (like Morrowind did) or having a combat dynamic that accounts for it. And the latter means either having specific attack cycles for under water, or having a combat dynamic that inherently has attack selection baked in.

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TECHNICALLY TES already has the latter, but... Well, it's control system is atrocious and even for special attacks is finicky and unreliable

hidden herald
feral viper
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Coral Tower is just Orchalic Tower rebuilt!

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There may be a story in that. It's not necessarily the story I would personally tell, but there's probably an interesting one in there somewhere.

livid ingot
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Last time I checked Sload aren't elves 🤔

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Maybe you're thinking of Maomer

feral viper
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I mean... No, those aren't even comparable.

Ok, well, Volundrung is a magical hammer that is now an extension of a god, so maybe.

paper prism
# feral viper Alright, here's a little game... Which I promise has a point, but we'll see how ...

Morrowind = Alien

Oblivion = Sideline

Skyrim = Brutal

My explanations: Morrowind was such a strange land to us (the IRL player) when it came out, and even is to this day as new people boot up the game for the first time. For Oblivion, although I'll admit I haven't personally played it yet, I've often heard described as "you aren't the main character". Skyrim is because the harsh winters and blunt culture

pale walrus
# feral viper We can hope. Though... A lot needs to be done over previous games to make underw...

Agreed, quite a bit would need to be done to make underwater environments what they need to be. Personally, I'd like to see changes in ambient light by depth; temperature effects on things like stamina and perhaps even overall health (if it's really cold or hot); lots of fish and vegetation as appropriate to the environment; encounters with predator fish that are only rarely aggressive or otherwise violent; and things to do other than swimming down to shipwrecks to pick up loot.

pale walrus
pale walrus
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Actually, bullets should be 'shootable' in space (though functional cartridges would likely need modifications that would not be cheap.) Also, their effective range would be absolutely tremendous, barring gravity wells diverting their trajectory.

pale walrus
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Not a bad take, man.

dim reef
paper prism
dim reef
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Does anyone know if there are places in Elder Scrolls with underwater cities?

livid ingot
# dim reef Does anyone know if there are places in Elder Scrolls with underwater cities?

Well the Dreugh are said to have lived in underwater cities. The Sload can apparently submerge their islands so their 'cities,' if we can call them that, are underwater at least some of the time. The Argonians can breathe under water, so it makes sense for them to have settlements and cities beneath the surface but we have zero evidence of this as far as I'm aware. Strikingly the Maormer do not seem to underwater settlements.

pale walrus
dim reef
pale walrus
pale walrus
dim reef
livid ingot
hidden herald
sonic dagger
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How do I get the dragonrend shout because the cutscene does not play through

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It seems like it’s bugged how
Do I sort it out

livid ingot
pale walrus
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load a previous save or maybe open a

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ticket with support

feral viper
# pale walrus Yeah. Spears could be useful. Ranged weapons would be highly reduced in effectiv...

The best underwater combat I can think of, comes from Quest for Glory V: Dragons Fire. You are effectively limited to the Dagger and Spear (or Trident, a special spear) weapon, and a handful of spells like Force Bolt or Heal. Firebolt and Shockbolt, your two other main ranged damage spells, will either not work, or kill YOU respectively.

So when you're swimming, you have to be prepared, and you have to significantly change how you think and approach combat.

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Though even it wasn't what I would consider GOOD. It was from 1998 though, so it gets more of a pass.

nimble pond
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Underwater? It's like riding dragons in the sky, only instead now you are zooming underwater thru the oceans on the backs of sea serpents or leviathans.. Don't even need a ship to take out other ships when you can just blitz right thru them cutting in half.

rose fjord
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I wonder if they can announce es6 next year and come out with it in 6 months

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It’ll give them time for DLC

shy mauve
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Feels like it’s never going to be released atp

shy mauve
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One can only hope it will be released during our lifetime

rose fjord
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Why was my post deleted

shy mauve
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The haters don’t wanna see you win

spare plaza
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Messages that were deleted were against the #rules . If you have questions/concerns or need clarification, please contact us by DMing @vast rain

rose fjord
spare plaza
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Please review the previous post I made, this isn't the place to discuss it, as it also goes against #rules

pale walrus
#

A general ES question for the general ES board:

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Who is your favorite NPC in all of ES? It's not an easy question. I actually liked Dagoth Ur a lot. But I liked Paarthurnax even more.

eager remnant
pale walrus
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Paarthurnax is still my #1, though. Truly larger than life. Noble. Somewhat scary. Wise. Poetic.

eager remnant
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Now you should ask us who is our least favorite NPC. 👹

pale walrus
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LOL! I was thinking about it. Not quite sure what my least favorite might be. How about you?

paper prism
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Also, my favorite NPC (excluding all dogs, because that'd be unfair) off the top of my head has gotta be Narfi from Skyrim. I just feel so sad for him and wanna give him a hug

As for least favorite? I feel like "Nazeem" is way too easy of an answer (I say this immediately after my message telling Pseron Wyrd to not worry about having a popular answer... ironic) so I'm gonna stretch the term NPC as far as I possibly can... I'll go with that one ghost in the Temple of Agamanus who lurks above the water passages, forcing anyone without passwall to just get stuck and unable to move while it slowly kills you (Arena)

eager remnant
pale walrus
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OK, I have a few - Clavicus Vile. He's pointless and silly. Just a lazy meddler who plays stupid practical jokes. I won't even mention Molag Bal because he's simply cartoonish. In terms of non-divine NPCs that I dislike intensely: Martin Septim and Mankar Camoran.

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Neither Martin or Mankar are genuinely qualified to do anything serious. I wouldn't hire them to bag groceries.

nimble pond
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Favorite? That's easy, the great M'aiq! 🙀

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Least favorite are mudcrabs, they just piss me off always pinching my ankles when I'm just trying to get a view of the pretty streams. But seriously, rude as hell lil b-, wouldn't miss them at all.

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That's it. I'm going on another playthrough simply to kill and fill my home with mudcrab legs to the ceiling.

pale walrus
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What if, in ES6, BGS made M'aiq a highly significant central NPC? And at the end of the main quest, he could be chosen as a follower? If they put in the proper level of work, that could provide quite a bit of contrast, color commentary and humor to the playthrough.

nimble pond
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Nuh, let M'aiq be M'aiq, already perfect as they are.

hearty otter
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M'aiq sees, M'aiq knows all. M'aiq is pleased.

nocturne sundial
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Good morning ES fans

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So I have a question, do I need Xbox Live or PSN in order to play Elder Scrolls Online? I've never played before and I'm contemplating getting it, wanna know if I need to have online activated in order to begin playing...

feral viper
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Unfortunately yes. You require an active Live or PSN account to play ESO on console.

feral viper
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Sheogorath SHOULD be the scariest of all the Princes. Instead he's just a goofy uncle whose take on mental health is from the 1990s.

forest surge
feral viper
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And decent writing could have done both. Pinhead is scary, even when just viewed from the outside.

Sheo is just a clown.

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He never does anything threatening or scary or even really mad to establish the threat. He must rambles like an ADHD Edge Lord with no actual bite to his bark.

forest surge
feral viper
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And a large part of that was probably due to him being the primary interaction in Shivering Isles. You can't make him dangerous when HES the one you're constantly talking to.

They should have made Haskill your primary point of contact instead, allowing them to show off a bit of of the danger of the Madgod.

forest surge
feral viper
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And that's fine. I think it's a colossal waste of concept erring too hard on child friendly appeal..

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I have SEEN mental decline. I've seen mental health and delusions amd madness. And honestly, Dengeir's clear dementia and paranoid are far better reflections of Madness than anything Sheo has done.

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But that's a general problem with TES and Bethesda's writing as a whole. It lacks maturity. Death is about as mature as they get, and that's really just the absolute baseline.

forest surge
feral viper
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Former Jarl of Falkreath.

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He is showing classic signs of Alzheimer's, including paranoia, obsession with old events, and aggressive outbursts at people.

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And if you know the symptoms, he's a tragic, scary and sad character.

If you don't, you probably support the Stormcloaks.

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Though to be entirely honest, we aren't even really sure WHAT Alzheimer's is, after the benchmark paper detailing it's cause and symptoms was retracted, overturning decades of work...

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Well... Wasted work I guess... Because we spend millions investing in research regarding the wrong thing...

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Point being, he's showing classic signs of what USED to be diagnosed as early Alzheimer's.

glass marlin
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Favorite NPC? Stuck between Partysnax (Paarthurnax) and Uncle Sheo (Sheogorath).

feral viper
#

Mudcrab Merchant.

glass marlin
#

Oh right that is a thing. lol

unique mural
#

Elder Scrolls VI: Hammerfell is it?

#

The concept are on Pinterest looks cool. If legit that would be awesome!

pale walrus
#

Looks like they're going to do a lot of work on the underwater settings.

unique mural
#

They also talked about how this account had Starfield art and is now moving onto this.

#

(potentially same dev/designer?)

feral viper
#

Starfield's Ship Battles basically have no value for Naval Combat. They do, however, show that Bethesda is at least making the effort to play with vehicle mechanics. So we will see.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Indeed. I think those will present a better idea of whether or not Bethesda is ready for sailing.

#

Ultimately, Ships in Starfield do not move like Sailing Ships, do not fight like Sailing Ships, do not have influences like sailing ships, and are not constructed like sailing ships.

There's basically nothing there that is practically useful, unless Bethesda decides to make sailing NOTHING like sailing.

unique mural
#

Naval battles or not, I'm just excited to get something, anything about the next TES.
I think Hammerfell would be very cool with its varied landscape. Yes, ½ or so will be desert, but we'll get jungles and temperate lands too. Heck, I remember when Skyrim was announced, everyone was like, "It'll all be snow!"

#

The TES VI teaser trailer fits into the temperate landscape perfectly.

feral viper
#

I am increasingly disinterested with TES as a setting. It's just clear to me that Bethesda doesn't want the same things I do, or isn't interested in putting in the effort into making the world interesting anymore.

So I don't really care where it's set, the mechanics and what they do with the game it's self are really the only things of value to me here.

spare anchor
rose fjord
#

Can’t type

unique mural
#

Best guess is still 4 years out for TES VI. It's gonna be on the next XB.

spare anchor
#

Please don't start platform wars

rose fjord
unique mural
pale walrus
#

With very highly successful IPs such as FO and ES now very likely to be Xbox-exclusive, Sony is going to have to get very creative and develop IPs that can compete. The next 5 years will be potentially quite interesting in that respect.

rose fjord
unique mural
pale walrus
#

But specifically regarding ES6, I'd be surprised if it really took them another 4-5 years to release it. I suspect they're farther down the road than any of us realize. Just a gut feel, I can't prove it. There's multiple reasons why I have that gut feel, though.

rose fjord
unique mural
rose fjord
#

I think they’re farther down the line with es6

forest surge
# feral viper I am increasingly disinterested with TES as a setting. It's just clear to me tha...

I would say it has more to do with not wanting the same things as you. They are focused on making TES World how they wish to make it and ESO has to follow in that to some degree. Because I’ve met other fans with differing ideals on what TES should be as well as Fallout. And ultimately you can’t satisfy everyone’s itch. One person Hated Khajiit Culture as a Khajiit fan in ESO’s Elsweyr expansion while I was the opposite.

pale walrus
#

Back to that reddit/pinterest reveal - I'm left with the impression that from an artistic point of view, ES6 is likely to be quite beautiful. I'm hoping for a big focus on NPCs being far less like statues or mannequins and be convincing as 'real life' characters, even more so than what was achieved in SF. Part of storytelling involves making the 'players' in the story believable and, at least to some extent, relatable and recognizable. The way the NPCs look, behave, express themselves physically and move will all be integral to that.

unique mural
#

...but I still say end of 2028 at the earliest.

feral viper
# forest surge I would say it has more to do with not wanting the same things as you. They are ...

I would say it's both, given Skyrim. Because the Concept Art showed a much better Skyrim than we got, but it was toned down due to the work required to make it.

Even Balgruf's throne was scrapped because they couldn't justify the work required to make it. Not because they didn't want to, but because they didn't want to put the effort in, at the cost of something else.

And yet, we got the Bugs in Jars, which literally do nothing..

rose fjord
#

I think when he said 4-5 years it could mean that he doesn’t actually know but it could be in two or three years

pale walrus
feral viper
#

And this is on top of the fact that we have multiple people now, pointing out Todd's dislike of High Fantasy and Magic.

unique mural
unique mural
forest surge
forest surge
unique mural
feral viper
#

All in all, I'm basically done with TES as a setting. I'm tapped out, and it's clear that we want different things. And since Bethesda calls the shots, I'm never going to be happy with their decisions because of that.

Still, despite my falling out of love with the setting as a whole, TES still has some of the best mechanical foundations in the RPG genre.

#

So until Bethesda totally abandons them too, I have reason to care. Even if it's not about the world.

nimble pond
#

Sheo is alright, sure he's a bit of the 90s Jim Carey 'Riddler.' But I don't want him scary, it's not like all Daedric Princes or even madness itself needs to be something of horror. Too much IMO. Only thing I would edit is to make Sheo more "unpredictable."

rose fjord
#

Well if we are going to hammerfell and there’s been quite a few tidbits of information out I think we should just be hopeful that something plausible will come out soon

nimble pond
#

I think Bethesda will remain pretty tight-lipped on TESVI for a while. We haven't even gotten Shattered Space yet and I believe Todd said something about wanting to do another major expansion for Starfield as well for probably next year.

rose fjord
nimble pond
#

Agree to disagree on that is all I can say.

feral viper
#

I don't expect any news I told at least next year. More likely 2026

rose fjord
#

They could legally announce es6 next year and could come out in six months the next year

feral viper
#

They could legally announce whenever they want. They could announce it tommorow, and drop it on Thursday, 'legally'.

But they have already acknowledged that they announced it too early already (despite that being a reaction in and of its self) and the earlier announcement of Starfield rendered them entirely incapable of managing expectations.

At the same time, and direct announcement of talking about TES6 would detail discussion away from Starfield and it's continued support, making them actively compete against themselves for the health of their own game.

So if their marketing department is worth their paycheques, they're going to be aware of these issues and plan around it. So they'll be hesitant to allow an announcement until they are sure they can act on it.

#

Though this is the marketing department that let someone actively attack the consumer base in an interview, so I may be putting too much stock in them.

pale walrus
#

There's eventually going to be an informative leak. Guaranteed. Somebody is going to talk out of school. Just need to be patient. I'm actually more curious about the SF DLC this year and next - my gut is telling me that they will indirectly tell us a lot about where BGS is going, what they're thinking and what they are able to achieve in given time periods. All in all, the next 18 months should be pretty interesting.

nimble pond
#

Probably already undetected leeks, just in small closed circles.

feral viper
#

Bethesda is still small enough that they can manage most leaks efficiently. It's once you start getting into the 1000 people range that they become unmanageable

gloomy anchor
#

We need to steer off this topic.

nimble pond
#

Damn, just as I was about to reply 😆, oh well, hush hush it is 🤐

velvet wigeon
#

Do we agree that it never existed?

feral viper
nimble pond
wide garnet
rose fjord
hidden herald
nimble pond
#

Just a glitch in the matrix, nothing to see here

pale walrus
pale walrus
#

You know what I want to do in ES6 Hammerfell? I want to go up the Brena river. All the way from its estuary to the intersecting borders of Cyrodiil, HF and Skyrim. Naturally it won't be doable all the way by boat - there will be portages and at a certain point, I'll have to proceed on foot. But climbing from the sea and out of the desert/dry savannah up into greener and wetter environments, all the way up to the river's headwaters in the Jeralls, will hopefully be spectacular. If at all possible, I'd like to stop and any points along the way where the river slows down or there is a lake and do some fishing.

#

After that, I imagine I'd like to head NE into the Craglorn area, following whatever roads or paths there are all the way to Dragonstar. Then circle around along the Dragontails, I want to then proceed downstream by boat in the Bjoulsae river into Iliac Bay and make my way to Sentinel.

#

Not sure where I'd go from there, but....it sounds like a fun way to start exploring the province. I'm in no rush to go into the interior - I'm not really a fan of the desert, though there will undoubtedly be some visually stunning places.

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One of the things I found very attractive in Skyrim was the waterways. I especially liked the rapids swollen with water, the fish leaping. It was beautiful.

nimble pond
#

Already calling TESVI, Hammerfell, are we? Rather bold this early 😄
And sounds relaxing till a whale swallows you and the boat

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Though the things i'd look out for is when you're looking over the boat and looking down at the water and then something grabs your arm and pulls you in

feral viper
feral viper
#

Also, can you imagine if they call it TES VI: Hammerfell... And include Highrock? Once again, Bretons getting the short stick and being relegated to the sidelines.

rose fjord
#

I wonder if they are working on elder scrolls 6 on Xbox series X right now in testing phase

feral viper
#

That is one thing I think we can be absolutely certain of.

rose fjord
feral viper
#

Unclear. But it is the hardware they have available now, so they would be developing the game using it.

It is highly unlikely that they would be developing the game for hardware that's not even being refined for final production yet.

gray oyster
#

Please add multiple followers support (at least 3 concurrent) for TES VI!

rose fjord
feral viper
#

The issues with multiple followers has more to do with game balance and AI behaviour. Bethesda's AI just isn't good with coordination, so the more followers you have, the more of a jumbled mess any interaction becomes.

bright siren
#

See; TH recounting the programmers throwing a party when it MSFT said that the 360 would be getting for memory

feral viper
#

After the 360 announcement, yes. At present, they would be developing for a console with hardware that hasn't even been announced yet.

While that is possible, given they are under Microsoft now, it's highly unlikely. Which means that it's almost certain that they are developing based on the current gen hardware. If they have to upgrade later, they will, but it's highly unlikely they are developing for it now.

#

Especially given current predictions are that the next generation of consoles will be 2028-2029, trying to develop a game for hardware 4 years in advance is basically a pipe dream. You have no way to reliably predict how hardware will develop in the next 2 years, let alone 4.

#

I mean, hell. We may not even be in the RTX series chipsets by 2028.

rose fjord
feral viper
#

Absolutely. If nothing else, they're using current hardware as their testbed for development.

#

So if anyone is actively playing a vertical slice of the game to test mechanics, interactions, etc... it's on current gen stuff and not speculative hardware setups about what they COULD be working with in 4 years.

nimble pond
hollow path
#

Honestly I wouldn't mind if Bethesda treated The Elder Scrolls VI like ESO and just add new provinces as dlc. I would be completely fine with that. I really want to explore every province of Tamriel before I die.

rose fjord
feral viper
#

Probably about the same as it has since Morrowind. It'll be made in the same engine, with the same hardware considerations.

nimble pond
# hollow path Honestly I wouldn't mind if Bethesda treated The Elder Scrolls VI like ESO and j...

In a way they already are, it's just over a greater length of time. We got a Morrowind (chunk of it), Cyrodiil, skyrim, and whatever is coming next. The Elder Scrolls series is the main and each province is like a large dlc that releases several years later. But if they start releasing provinces with less dev time like every year such us typical dlc along with other games they have to work like fallout and starfiekd then I'm pretty sure those dlc provinces are gonna suck and be lacking and be nothing like the size and detail of the main games with normal dev time (up to 5 yrs).

pale walrus
rose fjord
pale walrus
# rose fjord Maybe like Skyrims dlcs came out all in a year

Doesn't look like they'll be doing that in ES6. Per Pseron's discovery from one or two weeks back, TH's statement about titles purposefully having 10 year lifespans will likely include significant DLCs spaced every 2 years (roughly) to provide rich content over an extended period of time.

feral viper
#

Ultimately, the development time means that by the time they finished another province with enough content to make it worth it, the engine and game would already be outdated. Two provinces, and you'd be so far behind the curve that you'd basically be making games for the previous generation.

Which is not a good business model.

rose fjord
nimble pond
pale walrus
rose fjord
pale walrus
rose fjord
rose fjord
feral viper
#

They'll just do a GTA and release it on both console generations..

rose fjord
rose fjord
rose fjord
rose fjord
#

No seriously if they do a gta edition could I just buy the DLC

feral viper
#

Ish

#

Chomking out on pizza. But yeah, of they intend to do a 10 year lifespan, that's the sort of approach I expect

rose fjord
feral viper
#

It's implied, based on his statements about Starfield, and his earlier comments about TES6 having to be a game people would play for a decade.

Of course, people have been playing Morrowind for over 2 decades, so it's not like they really need to specially design and support a game for that. Just give us modding tools in a reasonable amount of time.

rose fjord
#

Right

feral viper
#

I expect, based on recent statements, we'd see between 2-4 years of active support through various sized DLCs, and the remaining time will be support updates but no serious content...

Thats purely speculation though.

rose fjord
rose fjord
#

Right

rose fjord
#

Yah there @feral viper

rose fjord
#

es6 when could they announce it at earliest but not release it

feral viper
#

Neither. I expect nothing to 2026 at the earliest.

nimble pond
#

We're all talking about dlc for a decade. But has anyone considered some of what they've been doing in Starfield carry over as well? Such as new game plus. Increasing proc gen in size and detail/variety. I could see it expanding in realms. Maybe even other things like media sharing, so other ppl can see snapshots of your characters, builds, any kind of creative photo or video you make. I think they added extra stuff to the photo mode in Starfield recently, so they may expand on that. Kingdom building, trying out different ship builds. It's all alot of time consumption

feral viper
#

Alright, that take was too spicy, so I'll tone it down and make it more direct.

I think those systems need a significant amount of work, if Bethesda intends for them to carry the lifespan of a game to a decade or more.

feral viper
#

At the very least, they need an order of magnitude more POIs to break up the repetition and draw out the relevant exploration period.

feral viper
#

There is the added problem of... Starfield can in principle lean on prefab structures to explain why every rock large enough to have noticeable gravity within 100 lightyears has a Mech Factory, or a Research Tower, or an Autofarm, or some other copy paste structure on it.

TES, and really most medieval fantasy settings, can't use the same justification. People still build things by hand, they still design them to fit the landscape to cut down on labour and they still have an active involvement in them. They aren't made on an assembly line somewhere, and dropped from orbit by automated ships like giant space leggo.

So using the same sort of POI system would feel very out of place, even if you did actually have enough to delay the monotony.

nimble pond
# feral viper Alright, that take was too spicy, so I'll tone it down and make it more direct. ...

I think that was already obvious. They're not gonna just copy and paste, the features will get expansion. Otherwise things like Hearthfire would still be exactly the same to today's date. Nor did I imply they'd be relying solely on that, nor solely DLC. You gotta come with a bag of mixed goodies. All that is already common sense. I wasn't really thinking about implementing that POI system in the province. But I could see it fitting as I said, in another realm like Oblivion, realms of magic and such. Mixing it with hand-drawn POIs as well of course, as they already do. Like Soul Cairn was quite large, but still had much potential and there could have been other sub-pockets within it to explore. And they could be much more populated as well with plenty of wilderness space in-between so it's not all on top of itself. It's not like some barren rock light years away that's barely seen the light of any kind of civilization or life.

pale walrus
#

Wait! What is a "POI"? I know of a starchy root by that name that's found in the Hawaiian Islands, but don't know what it means with respect to video game design.

nimble pond
#

I'm pretty sure it's "point of interest." But I may be wrong

forest surge
#

Place of Interest

forest surge
pale walrus
#

Oh, ok. Thanks guys. 🙂

nimble pond
#

With the underwater thing, it'd be pretty cool if we got underwater companions and summons. The horse and dragon from Soul Cairn was pretty nice

pale walrus
#

Been perusing the latest articles speculating on ES6. They're all abuzz about the Pinterest pics (the account has turned private so it will take an effort to find those pics now.) But the articles do raise an interesting question/idea:

#

We've talked about where DLC for HF could take us. The several island groups to the west and south are obvious choices. Yokuda (or what remains of it) could be REALLY interesting, depending on what BGS really wants to do with it. Thras would be a tremendous opportunity for letting BGS let its imagination run wild in a Deep Old Ones direction. And, of course, there's always the possibility of popping back into a portion of Cyrodiil and Skyrim (though neither of those ideas really attract me.)

#

The thing is this: Todd Howard wants the title to have a ten year lifespan. The way he phrased it suggested he and the crew are thinking in terms of not just updates (Gold edition and such), but regular DLC like FO76 and ESO. So - what if some of these DLC were developed with great care, and took us to portions of High Rock? Yes, I know - loss of focus and all. Very legit concern. But ESO has managed to do this quite well (well....mostly.) They work hard at it and open up portions of a new province rather carefully and with a keen attention to lore.

#

Remember: Daggerfall was a big chunk of HR and a small chunk of HF. Maybe BGS will reverse this for ES6. If I remember correctly, HR has 4 major provinces - daggerfall, wayrest, the western reach, and I think Bangkorai. Maybe one really well developed DLC for each?

#

This could be a major error, of course. You can subdivide the above into more regions, and then there's islands. Maybe HR is worth a separate game.

nimble pond
#

Ok, I'll bite. One thing I hadn't considered yet. A lot of ppl look at the teaser and say ok, this is either HR or HF. But now I look at it, and what if it's a nod to Daggerfall TES2. While that game had small parts of both HR and HF, it's center was the bay... Seems like the teaser is centered in that bay area again.. So maybe we'll get Daggerfall 2.0 (no, not the same story and timeframe obviously. It would be a completely new game with new stories and content), only this time it will include the bay again and all of each province (HR & HF) rather than just a piece of each. The main quest will probably have to be threaded into both HR & HF (possibly Orsinium as well). While each also gets their own focused (Breton, Redguard, Orc) main quests. Like how Skyrim had 2 major quest storylines, so it's not like having multiple major questlines would be anything new.

pale walrus
#
  1. Doing a fresh version of the original Unreal and transforming it into a genuine RPG.
#
  1. Redoing Daggerfall.
#

I would suggest that SF is going to become #1 over the course of several DLC (this is a highly speculative statement, but I think this could very well be what BGS and TH have in mind.) Doing #2 and covering both provinces in Morrowind-level depth is going to be....challenging. BGS has had 13 years so far to write out the major and (many) minor stories, create concept art and do some coding. Thus, it is not inconceivable that, given enough time and dedication, they could indeed do this in ES6. The idea of doing 10 years worth of DLC would lend itself to such an effort as well. But it's quite a lot to ask. I'd love it if they actually did this, but I won't hold my breath (even though giving themselves another 10 years after 1st release to develop further content would help quite a bit in such a titanic effort.)

nimble pond
#

If they are, I wonder if they split the art teams into two groups. One focuses on Hammerfell themes while the other focuses on High Rock themes.

pale walrus
#

WHOA. If we discovered another set of photos that conformed to such an objective....that would be really something.

nimble pond
#

Tbh, I've seen strong evidence of High Rock art in the past, hence the idea.

#

Well before Cyrodiil, they did the bay area of HR & HF and the volcanic area of Morrowind. Next they did another 2 games covering a full province instead, Oblivion and Skyrim. Who's to say it's reach is to end there?

pale walrus
#

If they could do this well (as in Morrowind-well), I would love this. 😃

nimble pond
#

I've always thought whenever they get to Argonia, they might include Morrowind in full with it as well in a future TES title, like TES7 or 8. Since TES3 was really just Vvardenfell.

#

As long as technology keeps going forward, we can hope for the best.

pale walrus
#

Wait - it's not just technology. Sure, they could build a two province game from a geometrical standpoint. We might have more loading screens to deal with, but it's doable. The problem is the depth of storytelling. Morrowind had it. Oblivion absolutely didn't. Skyrim was tremendous fun, but if we compare the stories told there to the lore that was extant, a ton of stuff was left out. For instance - you remember solving puzzles in various crypts, tombs and ruins in Skyrim? The puzzles had symbols on them - whale, fox, owl, eagle. Those all have meaning in the Nordic pantheon. But the way Skyrim was developed, the entire Nordic pantheon was thrown away and substituted with the 8 divines + Talos. Much of the meaning in Morrowind was available in Nordic form for Skyim but never exploited in-game.

#

I suspect TH wants to correct that in ES6. But if he does two provinces, it'll be double the work. If he can use the 13 years that have gone so far, the remaining years before release and the 10 years of followup DLC to do the task justice, that would be great.

nimble pond
#

But I like the 2 distinct systems between ESO and the main series. People were always saying they wanted a more modern game of all of Tamriel, and ESO provides that, but in more broad detail.. and the online capability also being convenient since ppl also asked for that too. So this way that crowd can be pleased currently the present while Bethesda focuses on it's own structure of the main series (basically opposite of how ESO's system is. No point in having 2 of the same thing).

#

The tech can be helpful though. Things that used to take days or weeks may only take hours. And I think they have more employees now then they did back in Morrowind days ( and now have double team size of what they had for skyrim i think someone mentioned before), which is probably necessary when you want to tackle larger projects each release. So it's a combo of balance.

lucid lintel
#

Okay this is my last idea, does ANYONE here have the ring of Hircine that Bethesda released on their merch store? I’d like to buy it, and obviously can no longer get it.

hearty otter
feral viper
#

Alright, so, as some people may be aware from my involvement, or lack there of, in other groups, I've recently decided to abandon the TES setting and lore.

However, I remain convicted in my belief that Skyrim, and Bethesda's games on a more general level, have the glimmer of brilliance which could truely revolutionise RPGs as a mechanical genre.

As such, I've been picking at some old notes I have regarding things, and figured I'd throw things at the wall to see if they make sense, or need more clarity.

#

First on my editing chopping block... Player Skill vs Character Skill.

#

Now, how I roughly define these are as follows.

Character Skill is what your character is good at.

Player Skill is what you as a Player are good at.

#

Ideally, in an RPG, Player Skill should be focused on expressing your ability as a player, to recognise your Characters strength and act accordingly.

nimble pond
#

Anybody heard of Dreadfleet? I love the ship variety in that game. Would be cool if we got "fantasy" ships like that instead of boring medieval ones made out of wood and cloth sails. 😴
Could have an epic naval fantasy war right there in the bay as a quest in one of the major questlines.
Surprisingly enough, you could actually pilot a boat in TES1.

feral viper
#

Uuuh, does the Swordfysh sail out of Sartosa?

#

I should actually get back to painting those.

feral viper
#

Now I want to see a Sload version of the Skabrus... A bloated animated carcass of some great sea beast, crewed by undead thralls and helmed by an immobile corpulent Sload Necromancer...

feral viper
#

Hold on... Sealed boxes of Dreadfleet are selling for WHAT!?

No... No, I don't need a second one. But at the same time...

#

Though... That reminds me, I wonder if there are any of the GotY Edition Morrowind Ordinator figures kicking around on eBay...

#

Ooof... Ok, I guess I'll stick with only having 1.

nimble pond
#

This game could be a massive war of many cultures. Hammerfell's own civil problems, orcs, reachmen, bretons, imperials, thalmor, akavir invaders, naval fleets, undead from yokuda, daedra.. what a clash. I'm probably forgetting a few more too.

nimble pond
#

Thinking back, I do feel HR & HF would work. If they did only HF or just one of any other single province, I don't see it competing well with other modern games. They need to keep expanding and growing, not go stagnant. Skyrim was done forever ago and that was on old xbox 360 tech. Here we are two gens later.. I do expect a boost. I look at Skyrim and even though it was missing some stuff, it was a pretty solid full plate of a game, they filled the province pretty well and that was way back in 2011 on old xbox 360 tech (prob not gonna release till between 26-28, so thats quite a gap). But they even went and added 500+ of extra content on top of all that for another skyrim edition on the X1. So I think they are ready for a two province shift and daggerfall 2.0. If they did just one province, then what? TES7 being just High Rock, TES8 just Argonia? No, I don't think so, gotta think ahead, gotta expand not only to best your previous games, but also compete with other modern and upcoming games out there and have the franchise itself remain relevant and profitable so they can keep that crown on it for a decade like skyrim did. Hopefully bring back that morrowind fantasy too and not put so much focus on the ultra-realistic medieval tone. I think starfield suffered a lot cause it was too ultra-realistic. Fantasy is just more popular among the crowds imo
But I don't see the releasing a whole other province as dlc working.. it'd never work with the main story. The dlc province would just end up being like this minor side quest and take away from the actual potential dlc areas revolving around the provinces themselves. Plus we only got a fraction of High Rock, the bit around the bay and that was forever ago, not up to the modern detail and depth we have in games now. It's as terical said, making an entire province as dlc is basically giving it the short end of the stick and will just piss off fans that wanted to see a province they like, properly explored.

forest surge
nimble pond
#

No no, not at all. I'm not vying for bigger for the sake of it. Bigger can mean a lot of things. More content, more detail, new systems, better depth! You gotta compete with the other games on the market or get left behind. If the game isn't up to par, it'd be a waste of time to polish it. While I agree you should not overdo yourself and go too big cause that can backfire and get you the opposite of what you aimed for. I'm just looking at the present and I think they are ready to take it up another notch (as they gradually already have been doing for years now).

nimble pond
#

While I'm on the topic of medieval..
It's alright, so long as it doesn't turn into a too-realistic medieval game and lose it's fantasy aspect. I like to look at it as more of a fantasy world that is currently in it's medieval era.. With that, I am very curious as to what Tamriel/Nirn would like in the future, how it evolved. Much like how we have from our medieval times to the present. How magic might look and be used in a future tamriel, warfare, weapons, landscape, all that. It'd be cool if we got small glimpses of it like thru a time wound. Possibly bringing back one or two gadgets/weapons from that future.

nimble pond
#

Man, I hope the sag-aftra video game voice actors strike doesn't affect or delay TESVI. 😑

eager remnant
#

"...bring back that morrowind fantasy too and not put so much focus on the ultra-realistic medieval tone. I think starfield suffered a lot cause it was too ultra-realistic."

My opinion is the opposite. I think Starfield's flora and fauna (and much of its architectural designs) is the most imaginative fantasy work they've done since Morrowind. And the diversity of biomes in Starfield is truly impressive. If they bring the level of creativity we see in Starfield forward into ES6 I will be very happy.

nimble pond
#

I agree, I very much liked the different fauna and flora. That was good, as was a good bit of the side art. The part I'm thinking that might of been too realistisc was the setting, tone, and overall game world itself, but for what the vision of the game was to be, that was kinda necessity. And for some, where things like how most of the planets are realisticly barren (but again that's kinda necessity with it being hard scifi tone). Overall.. I felt like it leaned more towards the realistic side of things rather than fantasy. Whereas with TES I think it benefits more leaning in the opposite direction.
But Starfield delivered exactly what it aimed for, and while I do like the game, I find myself also enjoying games greater when they lean more towards fantasy over realistic, when mixing the two elements.

magic tinsel
#

Hello,
Some time ago, I started the quests for the magic academy.
I was able to do the first 5 but impossible to start the 6th, "State of Emergency".
I've looked on the forums, uninstalled/reinstalled the game but nothing's helped.
Do you have a solution?
(I play on PS4)

eager remnant
nimble pond
#

But to wrap it up, my guess would be both HR & HF. They do commonly have a shared history in the lore along with our orc folk. Neither province has been properly explored as we've only seen fractions of both provinces (across TES2, Shadowkey, & Redguard <which despite the misleading names, none of these "truly" focus on any main province. 1 Bay, 2 Western Reach 3 Island off Hammerfell>. Yes we've technically seen all the provinces already in TES1, but again very old graphics and they since been revisiting the provinces focusing more on individual stories. ESO is also opening up all of Tamriel bit by bit, but not up to the same detail and exploration that BGS has been doing since TES3. Frankly, ESO comes off to me as Arena 2.0, just with more modern graphics and online capability, as well as being a different gameplay genre entirely) and in old graphics and frankly I was not all that impressed by the minor main quest of TES2, HR deserves better... I feel like if it is only HF, HR would end up getting skipped altogether in future BGS TES releases and possibly the same fate to the hope of ever seeing the rest of Morrowind in BGS format. But at least we've gotten Cyrodiil and Skyrim in full thus far..
Regardless of all that, if they did only HF, I think a chunk of fans would see it as weak if they were to do only HR next.. or at any point in the future by itself (since I frequently see ppl call it "small" in comparison, even if I find that statement to be bogus). Which is why I worry they might skip it altogether if they go that route. Only other options I could forsee would be to either combine HR with Summerset Isles (but it'd be weird if ship sailing is a thing and hammerfell is in the middle of the two, yet not being able to go there, not to mention just being too many damn elves in general.. half or not.). Or HR and some province-sized part of Akavir, which I don't hold my breath on that one either.

nimble pond
#

If they were still doing just a section of a province or provinces like in the earlier TES titles I could understand wanting just one full province, but they've already done two of those thus far and they were filled pretty well. I feel like they're gonna run out of things to fill it with or polish or just not utilize the full potential. I think they can support/handle 2 now.

But if I could pick, HR+Akavir(part of) & HF+Summerset would be cool combos in my book.
Ideally though, wish it was possible to take a province and stitch with a group/background from each individual province in the lore. So you basically get a game in one province that is further divided into smaller areas of each province. So say you get Elsweyr, which is compromised of sections with groups from each of the other provinces. And each new game you get to explore another variant/group of that individual culture united in another province. Instead of it being like ok Skyrim, all Nord groups. Cyrodiil all Imperial groups, etc. Just getting tired of the one-dimensional theme games. Stitching would let you gradually explore all the different groups of a culture while also not cramming it all into one game and giving a diverse experience each time. But too late for that, woukd have to re-write the lore and everything.

On a side note though, having two province games might also make it easier for when/if we visit the beast provinces so people aren't weirded out about being isloated in lizard or cat land (personally it wouldn't bother me at all and Argonia is my fav, but I've seen others talk about concern regarding those provinces, possibly part of the reason Akavir has been basically ignored as well. It's basically been all human and elves focus "yawn" in each BGS TES title to this point and that trend looks to further continue upon TES6). But mixing Argonia with say the rest of Morrowind in full and Elsweyr with Valenwood, well then you at least have Elves in the mix.

magic tinsel
eager remnant
rose fjord
#

Anyone here

feral viper
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Here-ish

rose fjord
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Why was my post deleted

spare plaza
#

Deleted posts are generally against the #rules if you have a question about a post removal or about those #rules , as per those #rules contact us moderators by DMing @vast rain

rose fjord
#

It wasn’t against any rules

spare plaza
#

if you have a question about a post removal or about those ⁠rules , as per those ⁠rules contact us moderators by DMing @vast rain

rose fjord
#

If there’re getting strict on rules something is going on

gloomy anchor
#

We always enforce the rules.

bitter kestrel
#

Please do not spam the same question you have previously, thanks!

rose fjord
#

I did?

bitter kestrel
#

You have asked the same question several times in the channel

#

This is considered spamming and will be removed

rose fjord
#

Oh you mean in general

#

I tried to separating from day to day

nimble pond
# magic tinsel I'm on The Elder Scroll V. But I'm French, so I'm playing the game in French. I...

The quest you're referring to is "containment." There are known bugs with starting that quest.

Found the following solutions from 'Skyrim UESP wiki' (you can google this to get the full guide): "To get the quest to start, complete all Winterhold related quests that you have active including any under miscellaneous quests." "If this doesn't work you can simply try going back to a previous save several quest stages BEFORE the eye of magnus exploded and continue on from there hoping it doesn't bug out again."

You can also try exiting the Hall of Elements before Arch-Mage reaches Ancano wait like 10 seconds then go back in, though that may not work if the game auto-teleports you back into the room after the bright light explosion (got this solution from 'Skyrim gamefaqs').

nimble pond
#

So, I think adding more rare critters, plants, artifacts, fish, fossils would be intriguing. I like the idea of collecting "living," rare, ancient, or otherwise one-of-a-kind lore in-game and having my own lil musuem collection.

feral viper
magic tinsel
soft lynx
#

Hei Folks! Any news about TES 6 so far?

wary bane
#

If it is in Hammerfell, I wonder if we will have 5 or so dungeon types? Dwemer, Alyeid, Nedic, Yokudian, and natural (cave)

#

Maybe an Orc type as well

soft lynx
wary bane
#

I’m trying to remember how many we had in Skyrim. 3 or 4 minus the special ones.

I couldn’t imagine the variety if they included High Rock as well. But I don’t know the lore for it as well.

soft lynx
#

What I hope wont happen. Is the simplification of the rpg system.... Don't want it to be less cool then in Skyrim.

#

Would be really an odd thing to get your perks and skills just on one page like in Fallout 4...

nimble pond
wary bane
#

Agreed, BG3 is far more complicated in regards to RPG systems and has the sales, awards, and concurrent player base to prove those systems are what most people want.

eager remnant
#

"Complicated" is not synonymous with "good."

nimble pond
#

Almost wish this game had limb severing. Just so I could watch my Argonian regenerate an arm or leg lol
Ah well, maybe it'd work on some Argonian-like mini-boss at least.

feral viper
# eager remnant "Complicated" is not synonymous with "good."

Indeed. And I think BG3 goes about as far in the Complexity as you can get without crossing that line.

But it was also boosted by the Dungeons and Dragons IP. Which is currently extremely high profile. So people were instantly more willing to engage with that complexity than would be otherwise.

On TOP of that, you have to look at wider stats. Less than 1 in 5 people who bought the game, have beaten it. And the leading cause of abandoning the game is (based on surveys of elective parties with no actual sorting criteria) it simply being too complicated.

#

The last part in particular sorta emphasizes that it's sales were not driven by the fact that people wanted the complexity. Like most products, sales were mostly driven by marketing hype.

#

I'd also go as far as to say... It's RPG systems are at best, a sidegrade to Skyrim's. They're basically a slightly simplified version of 5e D&D. Ignoring the fact that they then had decades of game design to draw on directly when converting those systems into a computer game, 5e isn't really THAT good an RPG system.

#

It's basically a whole bunch of bandaids over a barely functional fleshy RPG mass, holding together by the skin of its teeth (and constant exceptions to rules and systems driven by the active decision making of the DM).

#

Where Skyrim falls flat in comparison, however, is the fact that it's USE of its own systems is middling. Balance between Skills and even Perks within Skills are abysmal, and there's not enough direct engagement in activities to make most things shine.

The skeleton is there, but it was never fleshed out.

nimble pond
#

Was it good? Yes. Could it have been better? Yes, but it really wasn't that far off either. Between Skyrim and Oblivion however.. significant difference! Pretty impressive considering they were both released relatively close to each other.

feral viper
#

Oh yeah, Skyrim was basically better than Oblivion in every way.

Except narrative pacing.

vast timber
#

Imagine in a form of a DLC, TESVI will expand the settlement system into kingdom building mechanics like building an army, conquering lands, and become a king!

hearty otter
#

I'll say that Argonians truly bloomed within Skyrim aesthetically

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Only Daggerfall Argonians are better designed than them tho they are just generic-looking lizard-people

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Morrowind Argonians are genuinely on fleek tho

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Just that they need a graphics update

wary bane
#

I wonder how BGS will improve the NPC schedules. It was always fun to learn someone’s schedule and rob their house or assassinate them if they slighted you.

#

Also, does anyone remember the interview where Todd Howard was talking about hit timing in regards to the feeling of melee combat? I am excited to see how they improve upon it.

feral viper
#

Souls-like games are not part of that list.

wary bane
#

I throughly agree with you on that.

feral viper
#

Cliffs notes...

Better movement options.

Better control over attacks.

Better interactions with attacks.

Better weapon distinctions and behaviours.

Better action range.

Better encounter control options.

nimble pond
#

I wish they had different fighting styles. Even mixing em and creating your own unique ones

pale walrus
#

This brings to mind why BGS has not imported the location-specific damage of FO. Could be useful.

nimble pond
#

For me it's like you can give your character more persona. Do they swing their sword like a knight or do they slug it around like a brute? Stuff like that.

pale walrus
# nimble pond For me it's like you can give your character more persona. Do they swing their s...

I figure the hand-to-hand fighters will need (or at least will benefit from) some extra equipment. Things like padded gloves, or the leather gloves with lead weights in them like the greeks and romans, brass knuckles, and so forth. These might be essential to protect the PC's hands (and maybe feet) when fighting armored opponents. But that's for the strikers. I'm not sure if the grapplers will need anything, or if there's anything appropriate. Regardless, this could be an interesting creative avenue for BGS devs.

feral viper
#

My general problem with Fighting Styles, is that they almost always (and by that, I mean every example I am aware of, but I haven't played every game ever made) rely on Attack Cycle style combat.

Which is fine, if you want to focus on style over substance, but heavily impairs your ability to represent weapons and attacks in realistic and interesting ways.

feral viper
#

Now taking from a purely cosmetic perspective, it would be possible to have different styles reflected in animations without directly impacting gameplay, and open up MTX cosmetic options (a selling point for the publisher at least) without making things pay-to-win or compromising any sort of direct gameplay.

The only trick would be in getting the timings between animation styles the same.

pale walrus
#

Now that you mention it, the implementation could indeed be very challenging. As an example: say your PC has hand to hand skills much like those of a Thai Boxer. That means you can punch, kick, and use your knees and elbows. You're fighting an armored knight with a sword and shield. To punch your opponent or use your knees or elbows, you need to get very much in your opponent's range - not very safe. Kicking is a bit more prudent, but you still need to be able to effectively dodge that sword (and sometimes shield) or get inside your opponent's guard to neutralize cuts, stags and shield strikes. Also, your PC might be wearing armor of some sort, which implies some level of encumbrance (I suppose speed and agility.) Making all of this work sounds very, very difficult, especially in light of what BGS has been able to do for combat in both Skyrim and FO4. It would be a tremendous leap in capability - an order of magnitude. I'm wondering how such a thing could be done.

feral viper
#

Yeah, and when you get into the realm of things one elbow-blows, shoulder-checks, grapples and the like... You really start getting into a difficult series of interaction ranges that can be incredibly hard to really implement.

MOST games that do it, avoid these problems entirely by using some sort of contextual combat system where you use a Counter function to do the fancy stuff. The Arkham games are probably the most successful at this, but Wild Hunt, Ryse, and Assassin's Creed all do the same.

#

Problem is... That kind of gameplay is dysfunctional in limited 3rd l Person, and basically impossible in 1st person. It's predicated on being able to see all around your character and see when an attack is coming to counter.

urban spear
#

Who knows maybe we will be able to get Nexus mods on xbox

rose fjord
urban spear
#

I've played vanilla so many times that I want mods (legacy of the dragonborn, whatnot)

rose fjord
#

Can’t wait for next gen Xbox consoles going to have so much fun

feral viper
#

One thing that should NOT return...

#

Dai-Katana.

There is no such thing as a Dai-Katana.

They are called Odachi.

wide garnet
#

Maybe it was just a Tamrielic misinterpretation.

pale walrus
#

If you say "Dai-Katana" three times in a row quickly, it summons John Romero....

pale walrus
#

And since we're speaking of melee weapons: who wants to bring back fatigue and maintenance to weaponry? Such systems have to be intelligently designed, but I see value in them. Example: say your PC needs to make a choice between an iron sword and a steel sword. The cost of keeping the iron sword in shape should be less than that of the steel sword, but the iron sword should also have a faster wear rate and a higher probability of breaking. As long as the idea is not carried to an extreme and creates a huge amount of busy work for the player, I think it would be a good thing to add.

eager remnant
feral viper
#

I think they have value as IDEAS, but the previous implementation was... Well, pretty bad.

#

In the case of Fatigue... My problem has always been that it rarely has any play to it. It's been handled as basically slow regenerating Stamina, and you use it and it's gone.

Problem is, anyone who has ever done any sort of physical activity (so almost all of us) knows that isn't how it works. Even if you burn through your stamina in one burst, you can recover enough to go again relatively quickly.

What Fatigue really is, is the deprecating return on your ability to burn that stamina. The more you burn through it, the less you have to burn through after a quick recovery.

Meanwhile, if you pace yourself, you can relatively easily make it through an entire day even doing physical exertion.

So for Fatigue, the best approach IMO would be something like Fallout 4s Radiation system. Where you recieved a negative penalty to your total Stamina, the more you exhaust your Stamina.

#

As far as Degradation goes... Again, I like the idea, hate the implementation.

Previously, it was basically just a flat tax on time. You had no way to make strategic decisions, no way to mitigate loss, and no real control of the interaction. It was literally 'Use your equipment, and it means you have to repair it more'.

I'd rather take the idea, and reexamine it.

First, attach is to Item Improvement. Skyrim's Tempering System already created the basis, so make it so as Durability drops to 0, your item drops one quality level. This means you have to really push things to make it useless, but you're unlikely to end up with a broken and useless weapon in a single dungeon run.

Second, make 'Repair' either automatic, or item dependent on Resting. When your character Rests, you're not just passing out into a hard coma for 4 hours. You're doing the little things that everyone does to relax, kill time, and recover. Changing bandages, using the washroom, brushing your teeth, SHARPENING YOUR WEAPONS AND FIXING STITCHES. This makes Maintenance less of a gameplay tax, and more of another factor in choosing when you should rest.

And finally... Make Durability Loss more understandable and able to be influenced by smart players. No more 'Hit things and Durability go Down' like a caveman. Instead, make is so Durability Loss is directly related to WHAT you are hitting, and how.

Have a sword that does Slashing damage? Then you know that hitting something with high Slashing AC is going to be really bad for your weapon. You may not know the numbers, but you will at least be able to decide whether or not your equipment can take that punishment, if you should try a different option, or if you may need to think outside the box.

#

Ultimately, any mechanic that serves as a tax on just playing the game, is a BAD MECHANIC. It doesn't mean it's a bad idea though, and by going back to concept, I think you can make something interesting out of it.

pale walrus
#

News update:

#

Cliff notes:

#
  1. TH is allegedly pushing BGS devs to get games out faster. What I REALLY think is going on is that MSFT is pushing TH.
hidden herald
#

Nah, more like needing to bring together enough of their various BGS studios and support studios, my guess, it's harder than people outside think to coordinate everything and build multiple games at once

pale walrus
#
  1. FO5 is 'in the pipeline.' I actually find this interesting. I imagine that there's no heavy duty dev work underway, but they're doing some early work - story outlines, main theme, the beginnings of concept art. There is pressure because of the Netflix show, of course, and there are more resources potentially available.
#
  1. SF will have one DLC PER YEAR for some time. That's super interesting. I suspect we will see this with ES and FO as well going forward.
feral viper
#

That COULD be really bad. And lead to far less exploratory and innovative game design.

#

Bethesda already struggles with polish and execution, if they try to shorten the pipeline to get games out faster, it would likely mean either lower quality, or less innovation.

nimble pond
pale walrus
# feral viper That COULD be really bad. And lead to far less exploratory and innovative game d...

Yes, agreed. That's on BGS, though. I realize this is a struggle - they undoubtedly want to create a GREAT game. But there are also business concerns. Maybe if they can make a core vanilla game with, say, 300 hours content (which is a lot, but it took me twice that long for my first skyrim runthru) and then add good stuff once per year in really good DLC - 100 hours each, maybe. Do that 5-6 times and I think we're good. Yes, the vanilla game would be less 'populated' with content than the original skyrim release, but 300 hours is quite a bit already. I can live with that if they release a great game and then add to it periodically.

nimble pond
#

Is that gonna be enough to attract enough buyers at game launch to help fund the future dlc tho?

feral viper
#

I'll level with ya. If 300 hours of content ISN'T enough, then pack it up. Industry's dead, and Gamers aren't worth the effort to try pleasing.

odd grove
#

Will we probably see elder scrolls 6 in next gen consoles

pale walrus
nimble pond
# feral viper I'll level with ya. If 300 hours of content ISN'T enough, then pack it up. Indus...

If it's released bare like that though and more dependent on future dlc.. the content itself may not be enjoyable enough yet, regardless of if it's 300, 600, 1000.. it's not about how many hours are put into it (which estimated playtime is subjective anyway since everyone plays differently like some actually just want to do the main quest and play it once, not collect everything or do 100% runs), but the quality of the content itself. It just sounds like a failure to release a basically empty or bare foundation single player game bc you're relying on future dlc to be the "real" content, which the first dlc would probably be at least 1 year away from launch as it usually follows suit, so yea.... It would flop at launch and that's a lot of loss on sales to help fund future dlc of the game plus more damage to their reputation. F76's launch was horrid and Starfield had mixed reviews. I don't think pre-orders & launch sales for TESVI are going to be as high as expected, ppl might feel more reluctant this third time around.. Releasing it bare bones would make that even worse. I mean he talks about releasing the next BGS TES main title with less content than Skyrim at launch and then wait up to 1 year at least before even the first layer of dlc. Say what?? We're supposed to respond positively to that?

feral viper
#

Fair point. I suppose it does depend on what one means by Content.

Fallout 76 suffered from poorly relayed content, most of it being done through environmental storytelling and exploration rather than quests and exposition. And because of that, a lot of people didn't recognise that there WAS content.

On top of the absolutely god awful PvP in the game...

Starfield suffers from trying to spread the content out over too wide an area, burying a lot of it under low spawn-rate events sprinkled amongst grueling repetition of places and activities. So a lot of people never actually GOT to some of the cooler stuff.

#

So it's definitely a little more complicated than just 'Theres X hours of content'. How that content is delivered, distributed, and how much chaff you have to cut through to get it, is a big factor as well.

feral viper
#

That reminds me of a scene from Transmorphers... Though I can't even remember it clearly enough to know if it's entirely accurate.

wide garnet
#

I’ve got an idea for the one thing (or things) that’s more powerful than everything in the multiverse, even divine father Akatosh and Lorkhan combined: three old, withered hags whom are spirits of Fate. What makes them especially powerful is that—

Hag 2: “We know every thing!”

Hag 1: “Things that were.”

Hag 2: “Things that are.”

Hag 3: “And Things that are yet to be!” * whispering conspiratorially * “The thing coming up, it’s gonna be big.”

Me: Thank you, ladies. But there are more than a few things to keep in mind about them:

  1. They don’t answer the call of anyone they consider beneath them (which is everybody and everything). Therefore, you have to go physically to them, but they’re right at the crux between Mundus, Aetherius, and Oblivion.

  2. They’re in the habit of interr—

Hags: We know.

Me: I know, you know.

  1. They only have—

Hags: One eye and one tooth among us.

Hag 2: We know.

Me: * yelling * I know! * more calmly * You know! I know! I got it! Enough already.

And finally: They don’t like it when people say ‘The fates have informed them…’ about things they really didn’t say. Irritate them enough about this, and it’ll be your thread of life they’ll snip next.

nimble pond
#

3 elder scrolls walk into a bar...

wide garnet
odd grove
#

Es6 they could make legendary weapons and armor a thing than enchanted items but I doubt they’ll ditch that system

pale walrus
stuck minnow
#

The elder scrolls 6 needs to reinnovate the genre, we're talking medival imprevisions with magic and dinosaurs etc, THEY NEED TO BRING BACK THE FIRE to the elder scrolls 6.

bright mortar
#

I've actually been thinking about another spinoff elder scrolls game wtf lmao

#

If anyone is interested I can share my idea but imo its kinda embarrasing

wide garnet
bright mortar
wide garnet
#

Ohhh-kayyy then…

glass marlin
#

Honestly I would love if ES6 had a deep, compelling story like in Morrowind.

dim reef
#

Why are these games so relaxing

#

Talking about oblivion and skyrim

#

Don't know if I should try eso

feral viper
# wide garnet I’m probably going to kick myself in the morning for asking this, but *what* FIR...

I have given up on the 'fire'. It's clear that Bethesda wants a different world than I do, and fighting against that is like fighting against a glacier.

So as far as Elder Scrolls as a world and setting goes, the fire is well and truely dead. The only thing left to TES, at least for me, are the mechanics.

And that's where Bethesda can actually make a difference. TES is a boring, generic Fantasy world that's had its soul sucked from it, yes, but the mechanics of Bethesda's games still show brilliance that can be harnessed.

nimble pond
stuck minnow
#

Oblivion and skyrim made the lore even more captivating, but they need to recapture that immersion it had with those titles

pale walrus
hidden herald
#

Most of the people who aren't hypercritical at this point have gone Elsweyr.

feral viper
odd grove
#

I wonder how dudgeon delving will be like in es6

feral viper
#

Probably about the same as it's been in Bethesda games for the last 20 years.

The actual format between Morrowind and Starfield, in terms of 'The Delve' is basically the same.

nimble pond
#

Depends. If you take trippy mushrooms or moon sugar before entering, it will be a very different dungeon inside and you'll probably end up killing your own followers by mistake.

#

But ya know, inspiration-wise (AvP), I'd like just one large dungeon that changes and rotates its rooms every 10 minutes as a sort of puzzle. Plenty of traps to kill you if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time whether it's lethal gas or trapped in a small room with 10 werewolves.

hearty otter
#

I wouldn't mind a split in a river between MMO and single player canons of TES - that's bound to keep things fresh

#

Imagine the new TES going to Black Marsh or Summerset Isles or Tsaesci or even the isles south of Summerset Isles

#

You can only imagine the sheer amount of lore and features and probable stories that will leap out

#

It will be like Morrowind in that sense

#

All these aforementioned lands have their bespoke weirdness that will make the new TES distinctive

#

And it would be a quantum leap in that sense

#

I hope the next TES will be the equal to the impact of Morrowind's own

hearty otter
#

Remember the Khajiit in Daggerfall? They looked way different and they used to be very much humanoid before Morrowind