elder-scrolls-general-chat

[minor dew]

the see washing up around them .. I seen it in a wildlife prgoram was cool as hell

a landslide

prety random?..

a volcno shrugs

tea time?

rock trolls

poison clouds,. poison mst O.O

a plague? i was actually thinking of the big c

😒 :S

darts what,. what does that even mean

massive hornets

the gmae releases releases next week,im wondering how far yous are in to rpoduction, asking for a friend >

I should been in here 3 years ago man iwas ** wired

you need a lettuce type plany like the flytrap plant without the trap

you could have some form of a rainbow that isnt a rainbow.

like not colourful

I was thinking plains or ufos, I guess yous has the things from morrowind maybe soething likt hat floating about no just na idea

charisma wtf does that mean

charismatic flying entitys I have no idea what that even means

I was actually thinking of the thing from never ending story, sorry i spoke

am i gonna get fired

[feral viper]

Nah

None of us were hired in the first place. we just showed up and refuse to leave.

[minor dew]

do you tihnk there will be orc gangs kinda like the camps from assasins creed doyseyy?

ic ant really think of how they woluld look, they would have gates kinda like the chicken pens in skyrim, only they would a bit darker, they would atack you on site

[feral viper]

I'd prefer not. I think Orc Raiders are overdone as a concept.

[minor dew]

they where in communties/tribes tbh for the most in skyrim

you mean like oblvion

was just a though i thought it might be a cool add

like little camp of them placed here and there maybe not

they could with a viking type raider

[minor dew]

who all on here still enjoys playing skyrim

[feral viper]

I play it occasionally. But I've mostly moved on to other games. I don't do a lot of modding (of Bethesda games... I have about 300 Rimworld mods active right now) and after 1000 hours theres not a whole lot left to do in unique ways.

[eager remnant]

I still play frequently. I tend to cycle between games - mainly Morrowind, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 (with a few other games thrown in here and there). Skyrim is basically tied with Morrowind as my favorite games of all time, by any developer. I'll continue to play it as long as I have a computer to play it on.

[tropic cave]

Played quite a bit of Skyrim back in the day, now I just chill in eso to hold me over on elder scrolls content while awaiting the long awaited tes6

I hope that by the time tes6 comes out it actually has decent sailable ships 🙏

[minor dew]

I might try this eso again

[tropic cave]

Yeah at the very least is worth it just for the story content and lore

[minor dew]

how many expansions are there....now

[tropic cave]

Quite a lot now

[minor dew]

I could only see like in the store strange

[tropic cave]

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:DLC

A list of the current dlc for the game so far

The latest chapter is gold road

[minor dew]

I can only see gold road and necrom in the store,there was a morrowind one and all was there not

[tropic cave]

After the latest chapter releases on the live servers the chapter from the previous year is added to the “dlc” instead of being a “chapter”

[minor dew]

ah so i just should just buy gold road

[tropic cave]

There is two ways of buying the latest chapter, either get the full edition which comes with the base game and previous chapters in addition to the latest one, or if you already have the previous chapters you can get the upgrade which just contains gold road

[minor dew]

english

i have the base game thats what im worried about

[minor dew]

its only offerning me in the store bblah blah, gold road or necrom there is no all in one edition or anything like that

sorry i typed a little bit quick there you where in the middle of ty....ping

[tropic cave]

Gold road should include the previous chapters

Unless you get just the upgrade

[minor dew]

its says gold roads not released yet til june soemtihng...

[tropic cave]

Yeah

[minor dew]

if i buy gold raod will it give me ti all

[tropic cave]

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/store/product/eso_gold_road_edition this one should

[minor dew]

Im on ps

[tropic cave]

Ah

[minor dew]

yeah

consoe maybe i shold get it on on this labtop

[tropic cave]

Well whatever you decide to get it on just look at the description of the product page to see if it mentions getting the previous chapters, then you will know you have the right one

[minor dew]

right.

I hate ** reading man, I dont see anything about previous content, anyone know?

[tropic cave]

Also there is additional dlc that was released for the game as well which was never considered a chapter, which you either buy separately in game or you can gain access to with the eso plus subscription

[minor dew]

yeah il probly get it.

I like the storage thingy

like the backpack

says ive played 370 hours of this game what even

[tropic cave]

Yeah the craft bag is definitely nice as well as the other stuff

[minor dew]

i was pretty in to this game at ta time seemingly according to my gameplay

[tropic cave]

Ah

[minor dew]

370

[tropic cave]

Oh nice

[minor dew]

quite a bit!

[tropic cave]

Yep is decent amount

[minor dew]

2000 in skyrim it is no match :S

[tropic cave]

Yeah lol

At one point I probably had more hours in Skyrim as well but now my hours in eso is way more

[minor dew]

I cant see anything about previous content hmm

[tropic cave]

“The Elder Scrolls Online Collection: Gold Road” this one should

Either that or the necrom collection

[minor dew]

well youd be as wise with the gold raod then would get

theres an online upgrade and a deluxe online upgrade no

[tropic cave]

Yeah upgrade is just the chapter by itself, no base game or previous chapters

[minor dew]

yeah

wheres the morrowind one and all then

[tropic cave]

Morrowind was made free and included in the base game

[minor dew]

ahahhh

right.gonna wing it lolol

ty.

[tropic cave]

np

Enjoy

[minor dew]

its ** its ** ** everythings**

peace out

see yous in hammerfell

[minor dew]

coming to think about skyrim and .....a quest that had tyou kind of out of it,considering this one wont be

very distinct you cetainly wouldnt forget it in a hurry

the goatmen are good for the highlands

what about like black holes.....wait thats too much like oblvion.....maybe with deathlord in the, wait thats too much like skyrim

hidden caves like elden ring..... a hidden cave....would have to be like a breadtrail though

[potent ember]

Okay, so back to my Wendigo idea.

The new lore is, a group of werewolves were hunting a group of Namria cultists. The cultists sought Namira’s favor, however did not have anything to sacrifice them in the cold and chilling mountains they resided in, in desperation they sacrificed each other, again, and again, killing and eating each other until only one was left.

This pleased Namria, who gave the last cultist her favor, and the Wendigo was born.

Overconfident and ignorant, the werewolves were hunted down and eaten by the Wendigo, using their ability to mimic any throat they tore out and ate to separate and kill then.

In gameplay, the Wendigo is a stealth based transformation, able to go lower when sneaking, literally laying and crawling on the ground.

They can mimic the voice of any species they devour, luring enemies away to finish them off alone.

After devouring someone, they are stronger and faster, and have buffs to their other abilities.

In combat, their attacks would be longer ranged stabbing strikes with their claws, and close range bitting that kills regular enemies, their health bar deciding how long it takes, you are vulnerable when you devour.

After eating, you can do a vomiting attack, where you vomit out the rapidly digested remains of your mean in a bloody and boiling bile that slows down your enemies as well as hurting them. It is more powerful with the more people you devour in Wendigo form.

You can also scream as a Wendigo, just clicking the attack causes a short range stun, while holding it down allows for a long range scream that makes enemies run and even drop their weapons/reduce their attack time and damage.

When not in Wendigo form, you must eat to fend off the insanity it brings, if your insanity is too high, you end up automatically readying your weapon and attacking someone when you walk up to them, be unable to sleep, or make very poor deals when bartering, as well as be less able to learn skills.

The way you remove the Wendigo curse is by eating the heart of another Wendigo, this means there will always be one Wendigo out there.

You can also sacrifice the innocent to Namria for her to remove the curse.

That is the Monstrous Wendigo, now I will cover the Wild Wendigo

The wild Wendigo came from Reachmen experimenting and worshiping of Hircine and Namria.

They created a stew made of wolf and man, and feasted it before both ditties, in order to combine their power to form the Wild Wendigo, a beast half werewolf and half Wendigo.

The Wild Wendigo looks like the more modern looking Wendigos with the deer skull and all, and has a combination of abilities.

It has the strength and ferocity of a werewolf, but is able to use the trickery and hiding of a Wendigo, but each part is less effective then the whole abilities of a werewolf or Wendigo

[feral viper]

I was thinking something conceptually a bit simpler.

A Lesser Wendigo is created when Namira Cultists corrupt one of Hercine's hounds (a Werewolf). Either through capture for the purpose of perverting Hercine's creetures, or the supplication of an afflicted before her faithful.

A Greater Wendigo, is a cultist of Namira herself, who in their pursuit of power and the knowledge of the void leads them down darker and more depraved paths, and further and further from civilisation. Until they become filthy, monstrous abominations lurking in the darkest places of the world, consumed by the endless hunger and cruelty of the void.

[pale walrus]

Can we, like, drop the puking part for the 'greater' wendigo? Seriously - if I encountered that in ES6 after having a meal, I might puke myself. Just too much for me, man.

Also: the Algonquin lore describes the wendigo differently. Apparently they can sometimes speak and behave rationally, though they are still driven by a manic, insatiable hunger for human flesh. There is also a giant version. Maybe if we stick to this being a Namira 'spirit beast' and deliberately separate it from werewolves, it frees up the development of the lore on this creature to be more its 'own thing.'

[feral viper]

The Algonquin Superculture covered a vast amount of territory and included more than 50 different specific groups. Each of which has their own variations on myths.

So for some, the Wendigo was humanoid. For others it was bestial. For some it was feral, for others it could speak and be negotiated with.

There's a pretty wide range of influences to draw from.

[pale walrus]

OK, good - let's use that source material to weave a unique identity for the wendigo. My personal preference would be to make the wendigo unique - independent of werewolves. Attaching it to Namira is a great idea.

[potent ember]

Well Namria is all about the disgusting things

But hey, we’re still prototyping

But you know, the fact that there are so many different variations, means we can have a lot of differences for Wendigos between regions, maybe the ones in Morrowiwnd can be talked down and negotiated with while Skyrim has the ones that are rather insane

[pale walrus]

So there could be the same variety among wendigo 'species' as there is among vampires...that could be mighty interesting. This raises a significant question: are Wendigo immortal like vampires?

[feral viper]

Wendigo are typically spiritual in nature. Either actual spirits that manifest as monsters, or as spirits who possess people. So they would conceptually be immortal, though Algonquin myth doesn't actually really... View spirits in the same sort of way as Abrahamic descent religions so it's kind of nebulous in many cases.

[pale walrus]

Ok, so - they are spirits. Perhaps elemental? An evil form of Atronach that has sworn loyalty to Namira? Or a malign spirit associated with Sithis that voluntarily serves Namira? Or - an actual mortal who achieves immortality thru service to Namira and, once the service has been sufficiently fruitful for her, is converted by her into this sort of elemental spirit?

[potent ember]

Maybe there are Wendigo sprits, when someone who is a Wendigo dies, Namria takes the Wendigo part of them, and puts them into a living worshipper she deems worrying

[feral viper]

Well, that's sort of the issue with adopting the idea wholesale.

If they are spirits aligned with Namira, they would be Daedra. Daedric possession is a thing, and the basic mechanism of Necromancy involves stuffing a Daedric Spirit into a rotting meat suit. So that element of them could exist without much of a problem.

However, these sorts of things don't typically cause physiological changes in the... Host, in TES.

More conventional 'Divine Diseases' however, do. We see this with Lycanthropy and Vampirism.

So if we want to have a transformation sort of thing, then a Divine Disease fits better in the settings rules than Spiritual Possession would.

[potent ember]

Yes, I have an idea for just that, based on this video https://youtu.be/AswP2pxRToM?si=RgVvGsyieKDVNr1s

The disease would cause cannibalistic and homicidal urges in the victim, however can be relatively easily dealt with

But when someone with the disease is given the blessing of Namria, they become a Wendigo

Or we could go with the more divine disease route

[feral viper]

Well as I mentioned earlier... TES DOES have a cannibal disease.

Way way back in Daggerfall, there was Cannibals Prion. It was a... Well, very poorly represented inclusion of Kuru, a prion caused degenerative disease that was once endemic to Fore people of Papua New Guinea.

Kuru is actually the root of the pop culture depiction of cannibals being twitchy and having the shakes, as the early symptoms of it are uncontrollable tremors.

Wendigos could be cannibals who turn to Namira for salvation, and get Monkey's Pawed, really...

While it wouldn't work this way in gameplay, the infection could be terminal. Once you're infected, you're doomed. Unless you seek out Namira, and the consequences that come with that.

[potent ember]

Yeah, we could have like a guard line saying “why are you twitching so much? You should see a doctor.”

[nimble pond]

Need a Daedra trader/merchant. Sort of a "crossroads demon" all them blues singers be summoning.

[potent ember]

Isn’t that Clavicus Vile?

Issue is he’s deals use more trickery

[feral viper]

Now, veering away from how to integrate it into the setting and back to gameplay...

I tend to maintain the stance that a Werewolf Variant is the best way to approach a Wendigo, from a mechanical process.

It's primary thematic overlap is with the more bestial wild side characteristic of Werewolves, it's general sort of gameplay is going to fit better with the sort of frenzied melee style of the Werewolf, and it's overall... Well, posture and rigging would also fit into the same sort of style.

So, from a design standpoint, the most efficient use of time and resources to include it would be to include it as a Werewolf variant.

[livid ingot]

You guys creating lore for Namira? Sounds fun 🙂

[potent ember]

I agree to that in terms of what is easier to implement, however would still prefer a Wendigo based on the more corpse looking Wendigo

But we could have this version be one of those region specific versions, in lore there are other kinds such as the corpse like version, but the more werewolf like one is native to this specific region

[pale walrus]

There are certain 'elemental' differences between werewolves and wendigo which can be played upon to make 'interacting' with them a unique experience. Werewolves are a kind of primal force of nature, unleashed with extravagant fury. They inspire an atavistic fear. The wendigo are different - their behavior seems steeped in the unnatural and psychotic. They don't 'belong' in the natural world.

[potent ember]

Yeah, to put it in a sentence, Werewolves should be treated as beasts, Wendigos as monsters.

[feral viper]

Alas, TES lacks such clear cut distinctions. Many large beasts are considered monsters quite regularly. Such as Trolls and Werewolves.

[potent ember]

That’s more just because at a certain they are synonyms

[feral viper]

Indeed. But, I'll be back with a long winded ramble about my design ethos in a bit. Finishing up work

[potent ember]

Sure thing, I’ll be waiting attentively

[feral viper]

Alright, so. When i'm thinking through ideas, i tend to try and look at it from two primary perspectives. How would it play, and how would it be made. Lore and story and rule of cool are great and all, but... Wishlisting i find quickly spirals out of control, so i prefer to keep things in a thoughtful and goal driven mindset.

With this in mind, i always ask myself 3 questions. How would it fit into the game. Does it unbalance the memes. How much work would it be to implement.

By the first question, i mean, how does it mechanically function and what does it offer. How does it compare to other things, does it directly compete with them, does it overlap, does it complement, etc.

By the second, i don't mean 'You're finally awake", or "Arrow to the knee". I mean how does it fit into the conceptual and thematic ideas of the game. Especially when considering the Warrior-Thief-Mage dynamic, and the idea of Build Your Own Character.

By the third, it's basically what it says on the tin. We have to remember, these games are a product. It's something that gamers are increasingly out of touch with, what with the whole 'Games are art' movement. In an ideal world, you could invest as much time as it takes to get everything you want done. But that isn't the reality, and optimisation needs to be considered.

Especially on the last point, I tend to lean heavily into the KISS idea. Implementation needs to be as clear, streamlined and simple as absolutely possible to achieve the desired result. Overcomplicating is a waste of time and resources, and thus a bad investment.

On the second point .. why do I use Memes? Conceptually, Meme is just a repeated idea. In terms of design, this makes them extremely valuable in maintaining consistency, but also in establishing goals and direction. Establishing clear memes early helps you maintain focus and balance throughout a creative project, and prevents a disjointed Kitchen Sink sort of end result.

They also help maintain an internal balance.

For instance, the Warrior-Thief-Mage meme. If you include something that is Warrior Centric, then you need to include something for Thieves and Mages as well. Maintaining this equal balance by adhering to the meme helps every approach feel valuable, while also ensuring that there is a diverse and meaningful relationship between them for the sake of mixing and matching.

With all of this in mind... If an idea doesn't have a distinct place (ie doesn't just do the same thing, or something slightly different than something else) is unbalanced in terms of the guiding memes, or would be too time consuming and difficult to implement well.. I generally just toss it and look at something else.

Doesn't matter how cool I think the idea is. Even Spears would be in the bin if I couldn't think of a way to integrate them meaningfully, equally and efficiently.

I hope that contextualises where I'm coming from in a lot of these conversations.

Generally speaking, I don't believe in 'They can figure it out' sorts of ideas and suggestions. If I'm going to want something, I believe the least I can do is think through it at least as much as I possibly can, and give others the best chance of taking that idea and doing something with it.

Throwing ideas at a board isn't contributing, in my mind. And isn't helpful. So I want to be as helpful as I can when offering contributions.

[potent ember]

That’s a valid way of doing things

The Wendigo As I think it could provide a transformation based more on stealth, like the thief, in comparison to the Werewolf and Vampire, who are more warriors and magic.

[feral viper]

I suppose, if we were to drop the Lich and move Vampire to the Mage focus, that could definitely work.

That's .. actually something I hadn't considered. I guess I was stuck in thinking of Lich as the Mage Paradigm.

[potent ember]

Maybe vampire could be inbetween as well, allowing us to have the Wendigo and Lich go fully into those roles while the Vampire holds middle ground

[feral viper]

Although... Now that I'm thinking about it.. the Vampire Lord transformation is effectively the same silhouette and dynamic as a Lich. Floating, throwing spells, etc... so a Lich as a particular variant of the Vampire transformation could work... Making it sort of a catch-all Undeath thing...

I will have to play with some trees... See what I can come up with.

[potent ember]

I gave this some thought, and I’m not sure what to say about it. On one hand, I wish for the two to remain distinct, on the other, I see the practicality of it.

[feral viper]

Welcome to my endless struggles.

[potent ember]

An apt description

[feral viper]

When I was brainstorming, trying to maintain balance between the paradigms and the number of skills was... A struggle.

[pale walrus]

Maybe keep it very basic at the beginning. Start with the 'base' wendigo and worry about 'super' wendigo later.

[feral viper]

Indeed. Once you've got a Werewolves Variant established, you can consider more expansion on the idea later.

[pale walrus]

Ya know, it's interesting. I don't like playing either werewolves or vampires. I just don't find them compelling. But this wendigo thing....this sounds interesting. 🙂

[potent ember]

Thanks 🙂

[feral viper]

As a general rule, I don't particularly like any transformations. I feel like getting to play these sorts of things fundamentally undermines what they are and what they represent, by making them attractive power fantasies.

Vampires, Werewolves, Wendigos, Strigoi, etc. are all ABOMINATIONS. They represent the darkest aspects of the world and are something to be feared, not desired. No one wants to become one.

And games, TES included, simply don't do enough to reflect this. These are curses, manifestations of dark compulsions and depravity. They aren't power ups and fun roleplay options, they are life destroying afflictions that leave you ruined or dead.

So really, I'd PERSONALLY be far happier to remove them all from the players side of the game, and make them enemies and stories to encounter.

But, ever since Daggerfall these sorts of things have been kiddy gloved bonuses rather than the horrific things they are. So that's what we work with.

[forest surge]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout4-elder-maxon-its-an-abomination-gif-16935360

[potent ember]

That this take isn’t more common

[potent ember]

I suppose we could make the downsides heavier, force the player to slog through the burdens of the curse

[feral viper]

You could, but how?

Take Vampires for instance. How do you represent The Thirst? How do you capture the ravenous, mind breaking hunger that turned Lamae Bal from a traumatised victim, to a murderous beast that slaughtered her rescuers to feed on them? And then how do you deal with the ensuing realisation of regaining your senses in the aftermath?

Mechanically, there's no way to properly represent what these things do to a person in an honest way.

It's not like on the tabletop where you can ask your secretly infected player who they think the most physically vulnerable of their companions is, and then force them to roll to attack that person against the players will. And then when they kill that character, to the horror of that player, then forcing them to realise what they've done and having to deal with the consequences all because they decided that vampire bite wasn't important to get Remove Cursed because 'Vampires are cool'. Something I have, white literally, done at my table (take curses seriously kids)

Similar to general survival mechanics, like Hunger and Thirst, the inability to really represent these sorts of things in a natural or consequential way makes them meaningless. They just become a bar that's easy to check periodically, and refill as needed.

Like, the only reason Survival Mode isn't the default play setting in my games is because the lack of fast travel is just flat out tedious and pointless.

And you can't really push to the extent of... 'Your bloodthirst meter has hit 0. You are now a feral vampire and you get a game over'.

[pale walrus]

Might be some steps that could be taken in the game. Example: you get infected with 'werewolf disease.' You're in a tavern in the game world, the full moon comes out and you turn into a giant wolfbeast. The game is designed such that if you don't immediately start attacking people around you, your character starts quickly losing health points. Thus, you are compelled to attack. At the same time, everyone in the tavern comes at you. Say you survive this. You escape the tavern, but everywhere you go you are hunted. You flee to the wilderness and gain a temporary respite, but you find that more frequently than is comfortable there are armed parties which track you down and attack you. Furthermore, if you approach civilized areas, the attacks become much more frequent and intense. All of this is intended to force your PC to seek a cure as rapidly as possible.

Same thing for vampires, but worse - you can't go out during the daytime.

What I'm getting at is that the game could be structured to incur significant and even painful penalties on a PC that indulges in monster-mode play styles. Some will put up with it in order to incur mayhem in their game world. Others will quickly try to find a way out of their predicament.

[feral viper]

Oh, there's definitely ways to do SOME things with it. But then you end up getting back to those 3 questions I mentioned yesterday, particularly the amount of work it would involve to make these downsides actually meaningful.

[potent ember]

Yeah, I suppose the only way to do it right is to now do it at all, but that’s too limiting for most of the player base

[feral viper]

Indeed. Even making it particularly challenging raises problems. Like... If it's too harsh, no one wants to do it. And then why would you waste man hours implementing it?

[potent ember]

Either way there’s a bullet to bite

[feral viper]

Now ... There IS one option that while controversial, I think could address the issue.

[potent ember]

Better than anything I got

[feral viper]

I call it, The Companions Solution.

[potent ember]

So you make the monsters companions in order to explore the downsides without making the game tedious?

[feral viper]

No, you attach infection and transformation to a narrative, rather than being something you encounter through general gameplay.

[potent ember]

So make it quest based?

[feral viper]

Just like the Companions did with Werewolves in Skyrim.

Except, you know... Better.

Because it's attached to a questline, you can then force exploring the consequences of it to that questline, without having to worry about you many burdensome mechanical limitations.

[potent ember]

A interesting idea, do you have any particular ideas of showing how it would work?

[feral viper]

Not in hand, as I've just kinda thought of it... But I can probably hammer out some ideas over the next hour.

[potent ember]

If it’s not too much trouble or time I would appreciate a example of what you’re thinking, I think the idea has merit, I just want know where we stand on the execution of it

Maybe a hunter in the woods is a Wendigo, and during a hunting competition (large scale so like dozens of hunters and dozens of people watching them) his temptation to eat takes over and he starts to hunt the people

[pale walrus]

It should be relatively straightforward for BGS to craft such stories for a wendigo, vampire or werewolf questline. There's plenty of source material that could provide inspiration for such stories - the original Dracula novel by Bram Stoker, the 1941 movie "The Wolfman" with Lon Chaney, and just for fun, "Young Frankenstein" by Mel Brooks.

[feral viper]

Right, ok, so as an example, let's look at Vampires again.

You start the story by getting a quest to go look for a missing child. In the process, you find them captive by a vampire. You free the child, but get infected yourself.

Over the next few rests, you suffer nightmares. Then, you wake up in the middle of the woods, with some friendly hunters rousing you and seeing what's up. They're helpful, and offer to help you figure out what's going on. You track down the vampires last official whereabouts before you killed them to follow the lead, with the Hunters offering to meet you there.

When you get there, they aren't outside, but going inside you find it infested with enemies. You kill them, then black out. When you come to, you discover that the enemies were in fact the helpful hunters, who you have killed and fed upon.

From there, you basically have a choice. Seek a cure, of track down a clan.

[pale walrus]

The vampire infection should include a curse that your PC starts talking like Count Chocula. 😉

[slow garnet]

Lycanthropy in TES3 Morrowind. If you didn't cure it before becoming a full blown werewolf, you HAD to.murder an innocent every game day or suffer penalties (and take the "bad" side in the Bloodmoon Hunt, resulting in failing to save Captain Carius). You could cure it in the end.

Or, vampirism. Permanent sun damage, most people wouldn't talk to you, some would attack on sight, difficult to find which clan you even belonged to, they all lived in far out of the way areas, no fast travel possible except propylon chambers, and even when you found them, the clans only had three perfunctory quests and one of those was "kill 12 vampires of the other clans" with no notion where to find them. And the cure was quite a long drawn-out quest with a lot of travel (no fast travel, remember?)

Frankly I put it down to Twilight, that vampires and werewolves became "cool" rather than monsters.

[livid ingot]

Oh, it happened waaay before that aha

[potent ember]

This reminds of how I’m writing vampires and werewolves more similar to psychiatric victims unable to resist urges for violence

[pale walrus]

kinda reminds me of some of the women in my life...

[pale walrus]

Just had a thought - say in ES6 we get an opportunity to go back to a piece of Skyrim (I don't think we will and I'm not particularly excited about the prospect, but the fan base might clamor for it.) Where would you want to go?

I consider this a difficult question. I don't see us going to Markarth - it's a dwemer - looking city, and we'll have plenty of dwemer ruins in HF. Also, I'm guessing the setting for ES6 will be a significant amount of time after ES5 (at least a decade and easily more) and I would bet that Skyrim is set to be overrun (or at least threatened so) by the Falmer. So again, Markarth is an impossibility. My guess would be that we would wind up in Solitude or Windhelm. Then again, maybe BGS will fill out the Dragonstar region sufficiently to assauge the fan base appetite for a Nordic/Skyrim sort of setting. Thoughts?

[obtuse magnet]

i could see the reach ^^

[pale walrus]

Might be really thick with Falmer, though.

Also, we need a city to be a centerpiece for a return.

[obtuse magnet]

the reach borders hammerfell and even though markarth is a dwemer city i think what they may want to actually focus on is the reachmen (which i realize is exactly the concept of the online dlc for markarth but i would like to see bethesda themselves try to flesh out the reachmen more because their characterization in skyrim is a little barebones), maybe they took markarth back for the millionth time
and yes the falmer could make an interesting element to it as well!

if i were to bet on what the dlcs for tes 6 would be though what i really think would be stros m'kai & orsinium haha

i dont play tes online so i rly hope at least orsinium gets covered in a modern elder scrolls one day i think it wld be rlly fun ☺️

[feral viper]

Nah, Anne Rice. Most of the modern Vampire and Werewolf romanticism stems from Rice, starting in the 1970s. Though it was already starting to swing that way even earlier, due in part to the intensely captivating Bela Lugosi.

One of the reasons I adore Warhammer vampires so much is that they are still unrepentant monsters. Barely contained beasts wrapped in a shroud of civility that could fall away at any moment, leaving them as cannibalistic blood fueled abominations.

[feral viper]

I'd like Stros M'kai to be in the base game, actually. So for Hammerfell DLCs, I'd expect more Thras, the Yokudan Archipelago, a Daedric Realm, and maybe Orsinium

[pale walrus]

Oh, yeah. A journey to the shattered land of Yokuda, and then to Thras and its likely Lovecraftian elements. Very much looking forward to such DLC.

[livid shoal]

Hello, does anyone know how to solve the problem of not being able to download content from Creation Club? After trying to download a mod from Creation Club, a message appears saying that I am not connected to the Bethesda.net servers

[rose fjord]

I wonder in elder scrolls 6 will there be another playable race

[pale walrus]

yeah - mudcrabs

[potent ember]

Maybe a mud crab companion that is useless in everything but gives you money

[night violet]

Game rant posted an article saying ES VI should do what Avowed is doing and have smaller zones and not an open world. I mean... BGS is known best for their open world games. They kind of need to do an open world elder scrolls game lol

[feral viper]

I would not do anything that Obsidian does, personally.

[night violet]

I'm still hoping they will drop us a bone and at least confirm the setting soon. It's a special anniversary year for both the elder scrolls franchise as a whole and the 10th anniversary of ESO.

The house that came out earlier this month for free teased that it might be hinting at something special.

[feral viper]

It's a tight line to walk. The sooner they confirm the setting, the longer we have to fabricate a better version of what they will do in our heads.

[pale walrus]

My guess is that MSFT (not Todd Howard) will drop a hint or two during the summer, after the Shattered Stars DLC release for Starfield.

[night violet]

Except shattered space is coming for Fall. I suspect that we might get something during the Xbox show case if we are geting anything at all

[feral viper]

Microsoft has a... Tenuous balancing act to deal with there.

If they make a TES announcement, it could overshadow Shattered Space and hurt their chances of salvaging the reputation of Starfield.

But if they don't do anything, and Shattered Space doesn't help, the future prospects become more and more hazy.

Given their recent decisions, I'm not comfortable even speculating what they're going to do about it.

For my part, I'm ok waiting. The longer it takes for news, the higher the chance someone will actually look at our ramblings here, and maybe we'll get a game that doesn't require defending and justifications at launch.

[nimble pond]

I hope for seasons in the game. It would really make the environment more interesting and engaging as opposed to just adding a variety of biomes that never change, affect the nature within, as well as affecting city life like having a variety of festivals and events per season.

[nimble pond]

The thing is, I know this was intended as a joke, but it's totally possible with a necromancy spell like.. "possession." Transmorgification would also get the job done. Though possession sounds like more fun to me 😄 https://media2.giphy.com/media/xT9KVHs6I3EfDKnVte/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952o58zc4my4lffu1fo2u2aojr3nwf5tlc84c25rbvu&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[pale walrus]

Oh - the FALL? Interesting. Well, I would bet that MSFT will say nothing about ES6 until after the DLC release for SF. So....let's just say they'll drop us some hints around Halloween.

[night violet]

They why would ZoS be dropping hints about a house released in May be hinting at something special. Just over a month before the summer showcase. Seems like a lost opportunity is all

[pale walrus]

Sorry, not following - what did ZoS say? And what's this about a house?

OK, just did some searching. Seems ZOS is closing several studios that are currently idle. That means to me that they will save some of those resources and reassign them to priority projects. That would, of course, include ES6. But it would also include FO, since the pressure seems to be quite high from MSFT management to completely alter the timetable on BGS releases.

[nimble pond]

It's probably just additional promotion for the ESO gold coast expansion coming up. Anytime ZOS tries to be mysterious, people start saying it has something to do with TESVI.

[night violet]

Actually can't be. Gold coast is Cyrodiil. The house is in Hammerfell.

So unless it's a hint for next year, I think it far more likely that it's a TES main series teaser

[pale walrus]

Yo - can you send out a link to the information? I'd be very curious to look it over. 🙂

[nimble pond]

It borders Hammerfell, and can totally involve something in the story arc from Hammerfell. I really wouldn't be surprised if the next ESO expansion opens up more of Hammerfell in 2025.

[night violet]

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/65939?utm_medium=social&utm_source=discord&utm_campaign=dwemer_automaton

[night violet]

Honestly if that turns out to be what they are teasing they should have waited until December. So that way we got the house a month before the global reveal.

I've theorized the reason we haven't been back to Hammerfell since Craglorn and Hews Bane being that they plan to put it in TES VI and they would rather save the ESO Hammerfell chapter to come out the same year.

Imagine them being like "We are going to Hammerfell in TES VI, but you won't need to wait to explore a region of that providence. Elder Scrolls Online returns to Hammerfell leading up to the release of TES VI."

I suspect many people wanting to get a taste of what TES VI will be like will want to check out the Chapter

[pale walrus]

Thanks for the link, bro 🙂

[night violet]

It's the first entry on the page

[nimble pond]

It is what it is, if people want to think it has to do with TESVI like they were saying years ago about the past present future thing. Here is an interesting line as I reading about gold road though: "The Gold Road supposedly continues on to Hammerfell, passing west of the Shrine to Malacath near Sutch."

As far as new TESVI news this early.. doubtful. They got SF's first DLC coming up and Todd has already expressed regret in how early they released the TESVI teaser in 2018. Probably get more news about it once it's actually much closer to release like Bethesda usually does.

[night violet]

Still, seems odd If they were just teasing something coming in the zone or even next years chapter is all. Because if it's this zone, we already have all that content available on the PTS server. Nothing is a secret anymore as far as Gold Road is concerned.

[pale walrus]

OK - when Gold Road comes out, if you follow the road to the west all the way to the Brena river and there's a BRIDGE there, I'll take that as a definitive clue.

[night violet]

There is an easy way to check that. The maps for gold road are already available

||https://game-maps.com/ESO/west-weald-map.asp||

Also, the word spectacular is what is sticking in my mind. Why use that word for just another quest in the DLC or a zone coming next year that won't be announced for 8 months? It feels like it's suggesting something bigger is all.

[pale walrus]

Oh, wow. It stops well short of the HF border. Interesting.

[night violet]

Yeah which again leads to my theory that we won't see a chapter in Hammerfell until TES VI is about to drop. I do wish I could be wrong. Would be cool to explore more of the region.

Most guesses I've seen though think that we'll be going to Whiterun or Solsthiem next year as it's still part of the 10th year anniversary and Skyrim and Solsthiem are very popular areas.

[nimble pond]

Not to mention "the something special" could actually just be something really simple, like unlock with something you do with the house. Here are some more guesses that make sense based on ZOS's typical hyping. https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1cgq6jw/in_your_opinion_what_is_the_big_thing_sword/ They also have good opinions on it on eso forums. Some suggesting something to do with housing update or even guild houses. Whatever it is though, probably "eso"-related..

[pale walrus]

Going to Solstheim for a 3rd time doesn't sound like a great choice for ZOS and ESO. Why not just finish with Cyrodiil, Elsweyr, Morrowind or Black Marsh?

[night violet]

Well they just did Cyrodiil and Morrowind in the last two years so doubtful they will go there

But they have done

2022: High Rock
2023: Morrowind
2024: Cyrodiil

So 2025 being Skyrim seems very possible.

[forest surge]

Do it, because then that would be the first time a location in Elder Scrolls has been DLC 3 Times

[pale walrus]

That's a sound point. OK then. But please - not Solstheim again.

[atomic jay]

Is it any more likely that we get news for ES6 this summer

[hidden herald]

TBH, we do not have more information on when there would be announcements for TESVI.

[atomic jay]

Yeah I know that. Just wonder if yall think we will get anything this year

[hidden herald]

I'm thinking the earliest we might get another teaser for TESVI would be something to coincide with ESO's 2025 anniversary celebration, but I don't know more than others here.

[atomic jay]

That’s actually a good shout.

I feel like the moment we get a trailer tho it’s like a year tops from release.

[feral viper]

Depends on if they've learned their lesson.

Skyrim and Fallout 4 were about a year from announcement to release. 76 was less than a year. Starfield more than a year. And TES6 will be close to a decade by the time it's actually out.

Carefully managing announcement times and hype is... Not something Bethesda has demonstrated much tact with. So it's hard to judge.

[nimble pond]

It seems like the games that get the most hype and advertising way ahead of release end up being critized the hardest when they finally do release. It's like you build up all this hype that becomes impossible to actually deliver on and then you see the torches and pitchforks come out. I'd hate to see TESVI get the same treatment Starfield got when it finally released.

[feral viper]

The longer people have to think about it, the more they're able to construct their ideal game in their heads.

Then, when. It finally releases, and doesn't match what they've imagined, it almost always ends in disappointment.

[nimble pond]

It just builds it up to this "perfection" complex, so even the slightest flaw and suddenly it's the worst game in the universe.

[nimble pond]

Well, there goes my ship sailing thru endless seas of hot lava thru oblivion 😄

[pale walrus]

Sooo...are we all concluding that if ES6 isn't perfect and doesn't meet all of our expectations, it's the worst game ever? 😉

More seriously: I'm beginning to be a bit more optimistic about both ES6 and FO5. My gut instinct is that MSFT is going to dedicate more resources to both and be less conservative than Todd Howard. In other words, I'm betting that we won't have to wait another 5-10 years for ES6, but maybe two or two and a half. And I'm betting that we might see FO5 2-3 years after that. AND I'm also betting that they'll both be very good. Think of it this way: I believe there is a good chance that MSFT management has said to Howard and BGS "Look - manpower doesn't solve every problem, but it helps. The delays between successive FO and ES releases is too long; we want to help."

[eager remnant]

You're joking, but there are people who think like that.

[nimble pond]

Yea, I wasn't even thinking of anyone here, but I've seen a lot of what other people write or say elsewhere.

[glad cypress]

I'm not sure how many teams there are active, but I'd be wary of 3 years for ES6 while they're still working on Starfield. If they're being developed separately with different teams, that's great news, and I'd probably guess the Fallout team is doing Starfield and TES team are just chugging away silently

[livid ingot]

In the past, when a title is published, a bulk of the team starts developing the next title, while a smaller team keeps doing bug fixes and dlc for the newly released title.

Though I know they have multiple satellite studios now, so that process may have very well changed

Plus Starfield's reception might mean they're devoting more people to improving the game over time. Something that they already have experience doing with Fallout 76

So, it's anybody's guess. Though I wouldn't expect the next TES for at least 3 years. Hopefully (and I grit my teeth saying it) 4

The last thing I want is the next game to be rushed to completion after waiting so long for it

[obtuse magnet]

yeah the status of that game is a biiit worrying tbh 😟

like it has already been far far too long and if they want to really focus up and make it good & avoid what happened with starfield they need to take a lot of time with it but if they take too much time then it'll get truly outrageously absurd but if they rush and do crunching to get it out, not only would it probably be not a very good product (and the starfield reception thing would probably happen again) but it'd also probably be an ethical travesty considering the pressure on the workers would probably be among the highest that bethesda has ever had

just seems like theyre in a bit of a damned if you do & damned if you dont situation which is a little bit concerning when the companys reputation basically relies on that game

i imagine they'll just go with the "we're gonna allow ourselves to take forever to make the game" approach since its already been this long i just hope the game ends up being good

its a bit crazy though how they used to make games in like 4 years with a much smaller company and people still adore the games they made back then but now that they have much more resources and people they take longer and the games they release are way more divisive?

you'd think it'd be the opposite now that they have more resources lol (not trying to bash though im just musing)

[nimble pond]

Personally, I feel like it's a conflict of generations. You have the older fans that have been around since TES: Arena, but you also have the newer generations that have their own likes. So when you're trying to please both it can be a bit complicated trying to balance in-between. Worst case, instead of satisfying both sides it just ends up being ridiculed by both.

[eager remnant]

In a Noveember interview with Wired Howard revealed that roughly 250 developers were still working on Starfield. It is estimated that Bethesda Game Studios employs 450 developers. So this means that, as of last November, approximately 200 developers were working on TES VI. This is double the number of developers who worked on Skyrim.

[glad cypress]

Oh, that's wonderful! I hope they take their time with it, TES may not be everyone's favourite BGS series but it's certainly mine (tied with Halo). If there's any devs lurking in the chat, keep the good work up! Manifesting a hefty release bonus for y'all 🙏

[sly inlet]

Does anyone else remember how bethesda told us that they are using high fidelity scans of real world objects to develop models and textures for tes6, because I feel like no one talks about it, like we kinda already know what tes6 characters will look like too

[nimble pond]

I really liked blackreach. If we get to explore water more, and deep sea floor.. it'd be pretty cool if it was just pitch black down there and the only light was from the plants and creatures themselves, just like a whole different world and experience on the senses. Love bioluminescence and glows. I'd totally go for some hundreds feet long bioluminescent winged sea serpent! https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fe/98/c6/fe98c66875ef7aad6ac95ba3b68441ca.gif
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7938634bdea98922328f8f7238560092/tumblr_p5nt7oaeBP1x9qst8o5_500.gif

[sly inlet]

Also the tech demo for that technology they showed off a few years ago that was very highrocky

[sly inlet]

I hope that we get a sload city dlc or something for tes6 for this reason

[nimble pond]

Sounds very cool

[nimble pond]

Do you mean the anniversary video showing off photogrammetry?

[wide garnet]

Pretty pretty, shiny shiny…

[sly inlet]

Yeah

[nimble pond]

"I wanna touch it"
"Uh-oh, good feelings gone!"

It'd be mad if you could have a player home down there too and decorate with light like that.

[nimble pond]

That image ended up showing up again in a starfield video revealing more of it, I think it was concept art for a starfield biome.

[sly inlet]

Damn :/

[nimble pond]

But yes, I'm sure they are using the same tech for TESVI.

Most people just go off the 2018 teaser though and it's pretty much between High Rock and Hammerfell.

[obtuse magnet]

they were scanning desert rocks in the elder scrolls 25th anniversary video which i think would point away from high rock ?

https://static0.gamerantimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/the-elder-scrolls-6-photogrammetry-scouting-738x410.jpg

[sly inlet]

I’m the type that assumes it’s gonna be hammerfell and highrock

[nimble pond]

That could have been for Starfield though (more so since it popped up again in the starfield video revealing more of the same image). I don't think they were anywhere near working on or gathering resources for TESVI back then.

[sly inlet]

Either way there are probably pine forests in hammerfell

[sly inlet]

Not sure, is there any pine forests in starfield?

[obtuse magnet]

i suppose but they did scan grandma shirley for TES6 in the same video which i suppose could be the exception (like, they needed to do it in a timely manner because she unfortunately may pass away) but the pacing of the video is a little weird if they showed photogrammetry for TES6 and for starfield on the same breath as if it were for the same project

[nimble pond]

I just read earlier there are some wooded areas in hammerfell from the uesp.

[sly inlet]

Also it could just be a tech demo, but even then the setting choice is interesting

[obtuse magnet]

yes there's jungles in hammerfell c:

[obtuse magnet]

are u talking about the unreal engine tes 6 hoax?

[sly inlet]

Yeah a lot of it is jungly but I reckon there are probably pine forests in the reach and jural mountains

[sly inlet]

No I don’t think it was a hoax

Nvm

[obtuse magnet]

it was; it was labelled as "Redfall" because people thought Redfall was going to be the name of TES 6 but it turned out to be that vampire game

[sly inlet]

https://youtu.be/rT2Wf8K1Neo?si=5WY_-Kti9Q3Jhf-P

[sly inlet]

It was this video I know the one you are talking about though

[obtuse magnet]

ahh i see

[sly inlet]

It would be nice if someone could find that rock model in starfield lol

[nimble pond]

@obtuse magnet sry took me a min to find it, but it's at the 56sec mark https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VAHkFoH_oqM&feature=youtu.be

[obtuse magnet]

i respect the dedication thank u !! 🫶 there goes my key evidence for hammerfell LOL

still think it will be but i used to use that as like THE smoking gun

[sly inlet]

Damn 😭

I just hope Pete Hines’s snark about azra was a red herring

[nimble pond]

The problem is I think is a lot of people go off how High Rock looked in the older games, but I think they might have changed that up a bit bc otherwise it kinda looks too much like Skyrim. I think a portion of snow is okay, but it needs to stand out as it's own biome too. High rocks, gravely, beaches, mountain ranges, rocky and uneven elevations, jagged mountains, crevasses, caverns, coastal regions, fog and mist, fissures, arid and dry climate for the most part. Prob some forestry too in other spots, i'd like a sort of dark druid forest. Spread out kindgoms and tribes too.

[sly inlet]

Eso makes it really really craggy with sharp tall rocks

[obtuse magnet]

they finally added high rocks to high rock

[sly inlet]

Almsot looks like morrowind rocks lol, also I hope the tree density and ground cover gets bunped up in highrock that way it will distinguish itself a lot

It would be really awesome if a lot of it was based on temperate rainforests but that might be more Valenwood tbh

[nimble pond]

Maybe a portion of it? Idk. But high rock mainly would strike me as a sort of dry and arid climate. But there is prob gonna be some snow closer to the skyrim border.

If they add seasons, that can change things up a bit too with the set biome varieties.

[obtuse magnet]

im not someone who thinks that the bretons or high rock are boring at all but also if it is (just) high rock i would admittedly be a little bit sad because it really would be "oblivion 2" in a lot of ways and i would much rather hope they keep up the trend (as much as u can say three games is a trend) of visiting a wildly different climate each time by doing hammerfell. i could settle for 2 provinces in 1 (although id be a bit worried about scale) but just id like the game to have hammerfell in it

[sly inlet]

highrock is a bit dry yeah I would say that the west end might be wetter but the Alik'r desert kinda disproves that lol

[obtuse magnet]

not gonna bash them for an 18 year old mistake but bethesda really bungled the like. aesthetics distribution of tamriel by making cyrodiil and high rock extremely similar where they werent before LOL

[sly inlet]

ngl the fact that there is a rainforest between two mountain ranges between highrock and hammerfell is bs

[rose fjord]

Hey do you think elder scrolls 6 will be on Xbox series X

[nimble pond]

Are there are cactuses in hammerfell? I was looking at pictures of deserts and I can't recall if they were in hammerfell or not

[nimble pond]

Probably yes

[sly inlet]

True, I feel like highrock has enough to differentiate it if you look at it through the whole constant fighting thing though

[sly inlet]

tail end probably cross gen

[nimble pond]

I'm curious about the orcs of high rock. But orsinium is currently in hammerfell

[sly inlet]

I just want a name drop already

[sly inlet]

there will probably be a lot in wrothgar too

I hope we can visit orsinium

friendly goblin ken would be so cool

[obtuse magnet]

thats one of the reasons i think tes 6 will be there tbh! so bizarre that they moved it to hammerfell where every other version was in high rock otherwise. a lot of things in skyrim inexplicably revolve around hammerfell if you're looking hard enough and it reminds me a lot of how the older TES games foreshadowed each other too (the most overt example is you being 100% forced to engage for at least 10 seconds with Hammerfell politics because they put the Alik'r quest as only triggering once you've done the main quest and have to report back to the jarl, like they put them right at the front gate, its super forced! hmmm)

[pale walrus]

If I were to guess about HF, I'd assume the west coast was a bit jungly but rapidly drying out as you go inland, and worse so on the south coast. Iliac Bay coast to the north should be greenish as well, drying out inland. the 'center' of HF is, I guess, hardscrabble desert, but as you continue moving east, I'd bet it starts rising in elevation to be a bit more like high plains - Nebraska, maybe. To the far NE and E you'd run into actual mountain ranges that become heavily timbered at higher elevations. Again, I'm simply guessing. Maybe ESO can help here.

[sly inlet]

I always pictured Alik'r as being desert all the way to the ocean like in west africa

[obtuse magnet]

the bottom half of this image is northern hammerfell and should give u an idea of which direction the desert vs greenery is

https://images.uesp.net/0/04/DF-map-Iliac_Bay_(labeled).png

from daggerfall

[pale walrus]

I'm assuming HR is quite different. There might be some dry/plains areas in the SE and the 'center', mostly grasslands, but I'm guessing it's temperate and very green to the west and increasingly cold and even alpine to the east. The nice parts of the eastern and NE areas might be like the province of Solitude in Skyrim, while the truly difficult areas would be something like the icebound portions of the Forgotten Vale.

[sly inlet]

omg I hope we can visit Scourg Barrow

[obtuse magnet]

that wld be amazing

[nimble pond]

Actually I read there's more grasslands in hf but didn't see it mentioned in hr. Sort of like lion King looking grasslands to give you a mental pic lol

That's just going off the region descriptions on the uesp

Really tho I just focus on the 2018 as it's really the only official focus on it. Everything else I start drifting off into speculation while trying to give a more source-based guess..

[sly inlet]

I just found a source that says Satakal worshippers rolled through the desert like sidewinder snakes to reach Nohotogrha

I didn't know redguard had Tsaesci blood

[nimble pond]

I would def say it's either hf or hr, but I lean more towards hr based on the appearance from the 2018 teaser

[wide garnet]

Just look, don’t touch.

[sly inlet]

that's south hf

[obtuse magnet]

i also doubt that bethesda will restrain themselves too much of what hammerfell looks like based on current sources (especially ESO) considering how they usually interpret the regions pretty liberally but i really hope they at least keep the jungles it would be a little sad if they turned all of hammerfell into a desert. tbh thats my main worry with the game, that they will like, forget the main distinguishing qualities of redguards & hammerfell (if it is HF which again i do think it is)

[nimble pond]

Yea hf has its own variety too

[sly inlet]

I think bethesda can pull off variety, they just haven't really had settings where it was much of a thing

[obtuse magnet]

like redguards are supposed to have like pirates as one of their main aesthetics, like TES: Redguard is wholly a pirate-themed game, but with how long its been i could see bethesda making them be (just) the "desert warrior" schtick whereas one of the reasons i like them so much is their multiple aesthetics

[sly inlet]

with the photogrammetry it probably will be easier to make variety too

[sly inlet]

I hope that they are going to itterate on the ship building in starfield with actual ships

also while we are on this topic, apparently there used to be akaviri pirates in west tamriel but that makes like no sense to me lol

[nimble pond]

Either way I'll be satisfied with either province the same (HR or HF). If I had a choice I'd really want to go to Argonia and have the rest of morrowin included with it (not just Vvardenfell). I think it'd be a great fun mix

[sly inlet]

I feel like Black Marsh would be really hard to make given that the hist apparently reconstruct the land pretty often

[obtuse magnet]

naw i think they can do variety just fine, to be honest i think skyrim has a lot of wonderful variety while still feeling like a cohesive province, i never rly had an issue with that for them - i was just concerned about them specifically forgetting that in this case due to the fact we know they dont have an internal lore bible (which is kind of crazy) and they fired their resident lore person (kurt kuhlmann) after starfield so i just thought those things combined would make it more possible that they'd gloss over it because i think the fans are definitely more invested in the setting than bethesda themselves lol (though this goes for basically any media with fandom)

(glossing over the fact that redguards have multiple themes and that hammerfell has multiple extremely different biomes i mean)

[nimble pond]

Skyrim did have variety, I just felt like it could have used just a wee bit more. But I think the tech is at that point now for it to be more than adequate

[obtuse magnet]

BUT who knows! i dont mean to be pessimistic lol

[sly inlet]

I really hope the reason they don't have a lore bible is just because they use uesp lol

[sly inlet]

yeah personally I hate looking at skyrim, it's just a very ugly game imo and it doesn't have the stylization that morrowind and oblivion have to stop it from feeling dated

[obtuse magnet]

yeah that is literally the reason 😭 and while i understand (like why not benefit from your rabid obsessed fans right?) it i think its a liiittle bit tacky especially because wikis can sometimes be wrong and if a dev reads the wiki and canonizes a wrong thing on accident. well. that sucks LOL (this has happened before, too)

i think they could go for having some more internal documents than what they appear to have

[rose fjord]

You think they’ll announce anything about es6 at Sumer game fest

[sly inlet]

yeah I wish we still had the old bethesda forums so we could talk to the devs but ig they are too big for that now lol

[sly inlet]

God I hope but I feel like next year is more likely

[nimble pond]

Snow can make everything frozen and dead lol

[sly inlet]

this also lets them steal stuff from Kirkbride lol

[sly inlet]

yeah lmao

Eso honestly seem way more lore minded than bethesda

[nimble pond]

If anything, maybe more small talk without really revealing anything. But that's just me, I think it's too early

[obtuse magnet]

examples off the top of my head of bethesda getting caught using UESP is that when they added lore books from old games into skyrim via anniversary edition one of the sentences had "[sic]" thrown in front of a typo, which was UESP's doing to show that the word was a typo, meaning bethesda copy-pasted it from UESP rather than the Secret Bethesda Vault . also the cards in TES: Legends are frequently redrawings of the specific screenshots on UESP, the most damning of which is this one bc its a very hyper-specific pose

https://images.uesp.net/a/ac/OB-creature-Ayleid_Guardians_Attacking.jpg

https://images.uesp.net/5/52/LG-cardart-Ayleid_Guardian.png

i say "getting caught" like its a crime, its not; like its fine, just a little silly lol

[sly inlet]

oh hell nah 😭

the best thing about them using uesp is that loreheads can subtly influence the devs lol

[obtuse magnet]

yep

[sly inlet]

I'm glad there have been more projects to fill in the pre oblivion pages

morrowind daggerfall and the travels games mostly

[glad cypress]

not to mention the most important game, shadowkey

[sly inlet]

the other good thing about hf is that Todd probably has actual attachment to the lore redguard included given it was his first directed game

[sly inlet]

unironically though

[obtuse magnet]

thats what happened (though this is zenimax) with this guy:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ami-El

who literally did not exist or was referenced at any point until a zenimax developer offhandedly mentioned him being in "their internal timeline" (u can see the source on this page)

but where he DID exist was in this fanfiction hosted on UESP https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel_Data:Ami-El
so i assume some really weird confusion happened here??? i honestly have no idea 😭

[glad cypress]

plus the redguards have some of the most unique lore in the series, it would be a shame to miss them out

[sly inlet]

I always considered to be the weirdest region up there with morrowind

[sly inlet]

Imagine being the person who wrote this lmao

[nimble pond]

I think Argonia would be up there too lol

Both it and Morrowind seem quite exotic

[obtuse magnet]

valenwood as well

[sly inlet]

true

the hist and argonians are basically aliens

[glad cypress]

the bosmer terrify me, eating people, riding on giant walking trees

[obtuse magnet]

im ambivalent towards the like evidence of high rock and hammerfell being in the same game but i would gladly endorse it as a concept because it would force bethesda to explore a non-human province in TES 7 whereas if it were one or the other we'd probably have to continue to wait because theyd probably just do HR after HF or vice-versa LMAOO

[nimble pond]

Poor lizards. Imagine being bitten by a human and then transforming into one on full moon nights. How dreadful

[obtuse magnet]

unless TES 7 is Skyrim 2 /j

[obtuse magnet]

i would gladly wait until im 80 years old for a TES valenwood game to come out if it means that by that point technology is advanced enough to fully simulate the tree cities walking around 🤩

[sly inlet]

I'm gonna make lore posts on uesp til I can sneak in a character from my modded daggerfall playthrough

[obtuse magnet]

LMAOO

[glad cypress]

you mean orsimer? that would be cool, but I thought I heard it was destroyed (again (again)) by the time skyrim rolls around

[sly inlet]

I'll say it was lore from redguard and no one will ever question it

[sly inlet]

I feel like aldmeri dominion would be a good setting for 7

[glad cypress]

maybe they'll do another time jump, but I hope not too long so the thalmor are still relevant

[obtuse magnet]

orsinium is currently located in hammerfell! what i meant though is that if TES 6 is hammerfell and high rock, and the previous games were in skyrim and cyrodiil, then the only remaining unexplored provinces are elf or animal race dominant which tend to be more interesting and wacky than the human ones are, so if they do HR and HF in TES 6 then TES 7 has to be in an interesting location ^^

itd have to be valenwood, elsweyr, black marsh, or summerset

[sly inlet]

Theory, everything after the merethic era is a time loop and the thalmor will eventually become the new ayleids before the timeline resets

joke btw

[obtuse magnet]

yea i suspect they are the main antagonists of TES 6 tbh... its kind of hard to imagine anyone else, especially given the consensus and all the clues that 6 will be in Hammerfell (since Hammerfell was the only one who successfully defended themselves from the Thalmor & meanwhile the Thalmor are prepping to strike again currently)

[glad cypress]

oh my bad, I confused tes 7 as 6 in my mind, and I agree the non-human ones are more interesting when they're not just Fantasy Civilisation #73 reskinned

[sly inlet]

if we get ai characters in 6 I'm just gonna tell every thalmor to suck it before I smash their heads in

[glad cypress]

I don't think the tech is this decade yet, the game would have to be online-only to connect to the giant data servers for AI responses

mods fill the space pretty well though

[sly inlet]

also if we get a time skip it would be interesting if the thalmor start to influence ruptga following redguards since they also believe mundus is a trap

[sly inlet]

yeah, I still wonder what Todd was waiting for when he said the tech wasn't here yet for what he wanted to do

[nimble pond]

For me this is the only desert type that would lead me to believe it's in hf, but even so it still doesn't quite match up with the 2018 teaser in my eyes and just reads more high rock visually to me. I just expected to see something different or a bit more obvious to make me think, hey this is hammerfell and to rule our hr with more certainty. But for now, I'm sticking with the guess that's it hr, but either one is fine by me, just want another good tes chapter 👍 https://facts.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/arizona-desert-730x393.jpg

[glad cypress]

wait, is there a desert pic for TES 6 somewhere?

[sly inlet]

there was a reddit post I saw earlier about how the flyover tease matches a render of taneth in skyrim's out of bounds basic tamriel render

[sly inlet]

no

[nimble pond]

I've seen that too but could just be coincidence

[sly inlet]

could be but it is sus lol

[nimble pond]

It's all sus lol 😆

[sly inlet]

true lol

I just want a name drop 😭

[nimble pond]

As long as it's not another "redfall" moment lol

[obtuse magnet]

i hope they never do that in general tbh... i want to play through more of bethesda's human crafted story lines rather than whatever a robot wants to slosh together haha

im not even sure i comprehend how you could make dialogue generating ai characters be part of a game structured like TES even, but maybe im just not thinking hard enough ? i am blind to the future help!! 😭

[sly inlet]

yeah it would be hard

I just think the ai companion skyrim mods look super fun lol

[nimble pond]

Oh I just close my eyes and go to sleep when thinking about the future lol

[obtuse magnet]

true yeah

[sly inlet]

like I wish I could talk to my companions or barter with a merchant, or even settle a battle somehow

I feel like to do this type of stuff you would need to code ai personalities a lot and that sounds super difficult ngl

[obtuse magnet]

i think an ethically-sourced AI-generative rpg would be really really fun just maybe not for bethesda, but if bethesda were to be inclined to include some, i think it would be best if the generation was relegated to certain characters that are clearly AI whereas the rest of the game is human-written; maybe a literal dwarf AI companion, that would be amusing ? talking dwemer spider or something so cute 🫶

[sly inlet]

ooooh I would love that lol

at the very least I wouldn't be surprised if radiant ai gets a huge upgrade

[obtuse magnet]

i dont think its thaaat hard i mean character.ai exist and does that? its just a matter of, if you say the right things then the AI can lose its personality but i dont know if anyone will ever be able to stop it from doing that because of how it works. like the theoretical elder scrolls 6 AI companion you could presumably say "i am rebooting you, you're a toyota car commercial salesman now" and itd be like "ok" and conform accordingly 😭

most AI just does literally whatever with minimal resistance

[sly inlet]

yeah that's the biggest issue lmao, imagine if they could put you in an insane asylum if you did that lmao

[obtuse magnet]

oh yeah ofc! im sure the NPC ai in tes 6 will be massively improved thats one of bethesda's favorite ever things i was just talking about content generating types of ones

[sly inlet]

ngl

when playing skyrim I never really felt like I was playing with ai lol

[nimble pond]

Gn witches, cats, and cows. It's been fun, gotta sleep 😴

[sly inlet]

like it seemed rigid

[obtuse magnet]

goodnight!

[sly inlet]

Goodnight 😊

part of me wonders if tone from daggerfall should come back

ig that would limit dialogue trees though

[obtuse magnet]

yeah like oblivion vs skyrim represent two versions of npc AI that i think bethesda is kind of struggling to choose between. oblivion AI is more dynamic and is actually insanely impressive but you kind of have to know whats going on to appreciate it and because all the characters are doing dynamically generated things they arent thaat interesting, but in skyrim, they toned it down so the characters conform to a completely set schedule, but as a result they have more depth as characters because instead of canned conversations they have specific discussions about their actual lives so you find a lot of interesting family dynamics and worldbuilding in skyrim, but that takes more effort and once you see one conversation you'll see it a million more times

bethesda like HAS really good AI but they keep toning it down because its too good to the point where its jarring; in oblivion they handicapped the AI because stuff kept going crazy (and this still happens, like, an NPC gets hungry so they steal some bread so they get apprehended by a guard and then attacked but then the guard hits another guard and... etc) and in fallout 4 they did it because the enemies were too difficult because they were too intelligent

[sly inlet]

I feel like there is a middle ground you could reach, going back to ai personalities I think that they could use ai dialogue with the rest of the dialogue and a fed personality as a way to make radient stuff happen while also keeping rigid parts of their character

like they know X people but X and X could happen and you need to do X

[obtuse magnet]

true

[sly inlet]

I heard about this but I thought it was kinda just todd speak lol

like embellishing heavily

[obtuse magnet]

i heard those from a really long/chill interview from him and he didnt seem like he was embellishing to me, usually if he is it's because he's on stage selling something haha

[sly inlet]

I'll have to look into it

[obtuse magnet]

iirc it was this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9AAnV59ddE

idk who lex fridman is though i honestly only watched it bc of todd 😭

[sly inlet]

I've never actually played oblivion

do you reccomend it?

[obtuse magnet]

i do! its definitely janky and the faces are not the best but i think its a really fun game

take that with a grain of salt because i think i just have really low standards or something because i tend to enjoy most things i play or watch and ive played each TES game (minus the obscurer side ones) but oblivion was really really popular for a reason

it kinda sucks that its the awkward middle child between morrowind and skyrim so it doesnt really have a thriving mod community its pretty dead :/ but there are some good mods out there and they help too

i do play with multiple mods but honestly just vanilla oblivion + this singular mod would keep me happy for a playthrough LOL

https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/44676

[sly inlet]

apparently one of the ai events in the oblivion making of was faked for publicity :/

[sly inlet]

it's part of the charm lol

[obtuse magnet]

oh yeah the one they used in that one trailer is very scripted, the AI in oblivion is still impressive though imo (and to be clear when i posted the interview i was mostly thinking of the fallout 4 quote, the "stealing bread causing a riot" thing is something i saw in oblivion myself 😭)

its like if only the AI in oblivion were a liiittle more interestingly used itd be amazing

[sly inlet]

hopefully they focus on it in tes6

because rn the most fun I'm getting out of mooded daggerfall is making stories about the random actions my companions do lol

[obtuse magnet]

theres a companion mod for daggerfall??

[sly inlet]

A new IGN interview with director Todd Howard provides some small hints regarding the studio's priorities for advancing their RPG design, and it's not just prettier graphics and more mountains you can actually visit: Howard wants to make them more complex.

"There are a number of parts of it where we don't go deep enough, where it's a veneer in terms of its interactivity," Howard said when quizzed on what the studio could have done better when developing Skyrim. "Look, you can say that about anything, but I think when we think about games and what we want to do going forward, ok, whatever that system is, how deep can we make it? The other part is the way the AI and NPCs really react to you—I think we have a long way to go with [that]. Those are probably the main ones."

[sly inlet]

language skills overhaul

the companions don't really talk or do much but I befriended a ghoul (enemy expansion) in Scourg Barrow and he has been following me, then in sentinel I accidentally aggroed a night and the ghoul attacked him so I reloaded and recruited the knight and headcannoned that I broke up their fight lol, then he rode the ghouls shoulders which in reality was just the characters standing on one another lol

[obtuse magnet]

omg thats lovely

i glossed over that mod when i played daggerfall i didnt realize it worked that way, like i saw it but didnt think much of it, i shouldve installed because my character was in the archaeologists guild (also mod).. maybe next time if i ever have a next time

[sly inlet]

it's pretty fun but I would just wait for a free ai companion mod for skyrim or something

the current one is paid because it uses an ai you have to pay for each use after a few free ones

[obtuse magnet]

ahh yeah

[glad cypress]

goodnight 💤

[pale walrus]

Might I suggest that you watch some YT play vids first? It looks very, very different from Skyrim.

[eager remnant]

Unmodded, it's one of my least favorite Elder Scrolls games. But with the addition of gameplay-changing mods I actually like it.

[glad cypress]

It certainly couldn't be any of the quests, but for day to day rng companions it could be neat. Yhe main issue is voicing, generated sounds worse than irl in almost any metric, but the problems with AI being convinced to be different characters could be fixed in similar ways that companies use to reinforce if something is harmful for conversation

I dabble in reinforcement training and while AI flipflops on a lot of things like maths or trivia, you can definitely do something like reinforcing a character sheet-esque background that it can always refer back to

[glad cypress]

I like how weirdly floaty and slidy the movement and combat feels as a novelty, it's like a polar opposite to new physics based games that make you heavy and slow lmao

[sly inlet]

I've watched people play it before lol

[obtuse magnet]

like wes johnson for example doesnt support his voice being used for AI unless he signs a contract specifically setting terms & stuff

[glad cypress]

I'd probably do it if they could make it sound cool (also only having the rights to my voice for that specific game and subsequent DLC)

[feral viper]

Which is a lot more complicated than most people think.

The comedic irony is, that complexity usually derived from simplicity. Simple processes interacting create complex outcomes.

Unfortunately, most games lean into things being convoluted and difficult to follow, driving complexity through confusion..

[feral viper]

A lot of devs end up wasting time on convoluted complexity, when simple complexity yields more outcomes for less work.

A prime example is melee attacks.

Attack Cycle models allow you to create specific behaviours for specific weapons, creating sequential attacks that are both flashy and allow each weapon to be distinct.

Problem is, they require every single weapon type to have time devoted to animation, behaviors, stats, etc. They also make it so, though every weapon you have feels distinct, everyone using a particular weapon will always use it the same way.

So you front load the complexity, end up doing a bunch of extra work, and ultimately only get mild benefits from it.

The result, ultimately, is that you end up with a number of outcomes equal to the number of weapons you include, all of which require a moderate amount of work to implement.

The simple solution, is to have base attack types that are consistent across all weapons.

You can then apply attack values, which are effectively just numberical, to any number of weapons. How the player is incentivized to use them would be determined naturally by what variables are attached to which attack.

But this also means that particular enemies may be more vulnerable to particular variables. So HOW a player chooses to attack may change based on enemy, even with the same weapon.

So your result is a system where the number of outcomes is equal to the number of weapons TIMES the number of enemies. All requiring less work to do.

[night violet]

When Akatosh slew Lorkan, he ripped his heart right out.

He hurled it across Tamerial
and the heart was heard to shout!

[feral viper]

"Lol, get wrecked nerd!"

That's what the Heart said. I was there.

[night violet]

I find it humorous that 'Akatosh gave the stone' like it was his to give away.

It was Lorkans blood formed by the Alyieds

[feral viper]

Depends on the myth. The exact provenance of the Chim-el isn't clear.

[pale walrus]

Those numbers per weapon type are tricky to determine well. I remember in Skyrim how choosing between a hammer/mace, sword and axe seemed incompletely thought out. Such different weapon categories should have a mix of benefits and drawbacks, including effectiveness against particular kinds of opponents. Skyrim didn't really get that right.

[feral viper]

Oh absolutely. Skyrim... Suffers from a lot. Not the least of which being the terrible control scheme that TESA has used since Morrowind.

But it's Weapon Classes was another problem. Lumping behaviours into vague categories that apply to wildly different thing, for instance. Despite both being... Well, blunt, Hammers and Maces ultimately behave very differently afterall.

And a big part of this was, IMO, the problematic tendency of RPGs to confuse complexity, with depth, at a fundamental level.

More complex things doesn't instantly equate to depth. Having a stat that multiplies two other stats by a decimal factor up to a certain point and then suffers from diminishing returns (the standard Secondary and Tertiary stay system of modern MMOs) isn't depth. It's just complexity for its own sake.

Depth comes from simple systems interacting with eachother resulting in a wide range of potential outcomes.

Simplicity more often creates more depth than trying to force it through complexity.

[pale walrus]

This brings up an interesting topic. it seems to me that there are various deities who have a long-standing beef with each other. Lorkhan and Akatosh/Auriel, Malacath and Boethiah, and a few others have an 'axe to grind' with each other. There are also some dieties who are inherently opposed to each other - mehrunes dagon and molag bal, namira and azura, and so forth. Finally, there are some who likely want to re-establish themselves after profound setbacks - Jygallag, Lorkhan. 'Stirring the pot' with all of those rivalries, emnities and ambitions might be a source of great fun in a new title.

[night violet]

I wonder if it will turn out that the new Daedric Prince Ithelia had something to do with that.

[feral viper]

Most likely, just like Jyg before her, she'll be stuffed back in her box and never dealt with again.

[forest surge]

Or a different outcome

[feral viper]

We will have to see how the plot resolves in ESO. Ultimately, it will determine if a continuation is even possible.

[forest surge]

Eitherway this is Part 2, the final part of the story is next year

[night violet]

I heard that is this the finale actually. There is a extra quest chain for those that clear both Necrom and gold road. Was it confirmed somewhere this was continuing into next year?

[forest surge]

Yes, because it’s a Multiyear story.

[night violet]

Yeah but it's part of last year's story. So how do we know next year is also part of the story? When did they say that the story that's from the last two years will go into next years? Cause hoenstly I'm unsure how they do that. Ithelia is free after all.

[feral viper]

Technically, 2 years IS multiyear

[forest surge]

Correct, I’m hearing this is the conclusion, which with Dungeons, Prologue, Necrom, Infinite Archive, Dungeons, Prologue, Gold Road, seems to be a rather lengthy story as it is

[night violet]

You said in your last statement that next year is the finale lol

[forest surge]

Yeah, looked online and realized that this year is the finale, which I could have sworn next year would be

[feral viper]

Fair enough. Mistakes happen.

Except to me. I am always right about everything.

[night violet]

To be fair, I thought this year would be about finding the last gylphic and freeing Ithelia and then next year would be facing her. But they did those things in the Gold Road Prologue

Which by the way if you hadn't done yet is worth the hour or so it takes to do

[forest surge]

Gold Road Prologue was so good, Torvesard’s Voice acting was great.

[night violet]

I hope Torvesard doesn't get punished for helping his prince. Sadly some of the princes have funny ways of showing their gratitude.

It's a tail as old as time. Faithful servant helps their master to rise again, master destroys faithful servant. Like Demidevimon in digimon series 1

[feral viper]

Asmodeus and Geryon have entered the chat.

[forest surge]

Do you mean…

https://tenor.com/view/helluva-boss-gif-27654680

[feral viper]

Nah, D&D.

Faithful Geryon helps uncover the Reckoning, and aids Asmodeus in his artful suppression of a hell-wide revolt against his authority.

Asmodeus strips Geryon of his status as an Archduke, enstates his own wife's murderer as the new Archduke of Stygia, and let's all the rebels keep their positions.

Ozzy is my second favourite take on the demon though.

Now, admittedly, Asmodeus used the entire Reckoning as a way to strip all the Dukes of their military control and transfer it to the Dark 8, who now oversee the Blood War instead of the actual Archdevils.

So even the rebels didn't get away scott free. And Beelzebul was turned into a grotesque maggot man...

[night violet]

Ah yes, the politics of the Hells in D&D

[feral viper]

Now THERES some good political wrangling.

The Daedra are kids arguing in the sandbox in comparison to the Lords of the Nine.

But anyway...

Back to my point... Multiple interconnected simple things will almost always yield deeper results than complicated things.

For instance, 3 attack types, 3 damage types, and 3 resistance types, gives you an immense amount of potential outcomes, far more than even the basic formula offers.

For instance, 3 types of attack (Thrust, Swing, Chop) and 3 types of damage (Slash, Crush, Puncture) with the same Resistances.

[dim reef]

bro i watched the elder scrolls 6 teaser again and saw the release date of that video... almost 6 years ago, this must be a joke of some kind

will them announce anything related to TES6 this year, like idk, 'coming 2027'? The wait is intolerable

i hope they announce anything, say where the game will be, start to release lore videos to set us into the tone, it's insane they are taking all this time to release a new TES after the success of Skyrim, and it blows my mind

[feral viper]

If we use, say Skyrim as an example, every single Warhammer is exactly the same. It does the same damage, with the same attacks, in the same way.

However, with a system relying on these simpler fundamentals, you can create different TYPES of the same thing with minimal effort.

A traditional warhammer. A warhammer with a pointed topper that now does Puncture damage when thrust. One with an axe blade on one side that now does slashing damage when swung.

And by applying those resistances to enemies, you're creating more permutations based on the specific encounter. You're going to have to fight a Skeleton differently than a Troll, for instance, simply because different sorts of attacks and damages the going to be more effective.

[feral viper]

I'm still waiting on a resolution to Legacy of Kain. This is kinda whatever.

To be honest, I'd rather wait 30 years than have a crap game.

[dim reef]

why not wait till you're in the coffin, is quite fitting

[feral viper]

Well, because I sleep in one every night so it kinda defeats the point of waiting.

https://tenor.com/view/wake-up-dracula-hangover-leslie-nielsen-gif-14211396

[dim reef]

Oh i see, you're prepared then, all right, carry on

[feral viper]

I tend to live my life with the assumption that we teeter on the brink of oblivion, and that everything is going to be terrible.

And with that assumption, I try to find ways to make it not terrible, and devote my energy towards improvement rather than desire.

[dim reef]

I mean, yeah, they kinda lost the way with RPG even with they say their games are like RPGS they are more action oriented than RPG.

[spare anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-viralhog-cute-im-watching-you-security-guard-gif-20604758

[dim reef]

What i mean with that is they kinda lost the choice consequence of your actions, they say ''yes'' every time with everything and it ruins roleplay. Yes you can join everyone and can choose NOT to join everyone, but still is a double edge sword where what you do will not be as deep and important to the world, and it kinda bothers me

[feral viper]

They always were more Action RPG. Arena and Daggerfall were effectively just dungeon crawlers.

Still, I have a... Remarkably low opinion of RPGs in general. Most of the systems are clunky, traditional solutions to concepts are restrictive, and the emphasis on atrocious superficial 'choice' renders everything meaningless.

[spare anchor]

As a reminder: Please be respectful and constructive towards everyone in the server and help maintain a friendly atmosphere. We encourage you to share feedback, suggestions, and requests with us, but we expect all of our community members to refrain from resorting to insults.

[dim reef]

they could invest more with RPG and evolve combat to match a fluid yet satisfying mechanic where everything integrates

[feral viper]

In this regard, Bethesda does actually stand ahead of the crowd. They have a lot of great components in their repertoire that could make a legitimately deep and engaging RPG. They just need to be assembled in a more coherent and thoughtful way.

[dim reef]

may i suggest to BGS so they can run and release TES 6 ( a new trailer is desperately needed, teser was in 2018 and look how much time has passed) and new Fallout game, please??

[feral viper]

They have the tools. They've shown them off. They just need to be used better to make something truly revolutionary.

[dim reef]

with they do that, and give their best and inovate with TES6 like really try to push the genre forward, i can see it being better than Skyrim overall quality by miles

[feral viper]

I tend to be pretty harsh sometimes but it comes from a place of love. So many of the elements we've seen in Skyrim, Fallout 4 and Starfield are fantastic mechanics and solutions to old problems.

They just don't get the refinement and polish they really need to shine. Even Fallout 4s dialogue system could have fundamentally changed how interaction flows, it just... Ended up squandered to try and pursue the BioWare style of dialogue.

In an industry that is cripplingly risk adverse and actively shys away from innovation, Bethesda at least tries. Which is something in its own right.

But it can be quite frustrating when they get so close, and yet somehow miss the mark so completely.

The obvious exception being combat. Combat in TES has never been good.

But then again, combat in RPGs has always been... A very unstable balancing act.

[dim reef]

I agree

they really need to try now and not miss

[feral viper]

Indeed. Or, at least, it miss so hard.

[dim reef]

also need to hurry really, and get TES6 out, it's absurd ammount of time, people played it in highshcool (me included) and we are almost in outr 30s or past 30s and still have no signs of TES6 in the horizon

[feral viper]

Of course, there's always the problem where, even if your game is mechanically flawless, a lack of decent stories and content can still sink it.

So... There's a lot to consider.

[dim reef]

it has indeed

hope they pull everything together with a great delivery

[feral viper]

I am a very... Structured sort of person. So I tend to look at things in an arguably over-planned way.

But I think the key to success in this regard is to focus on solidifying and refining the gameplay and mechanics first. The. You can build the world to engage in.

But if you are too loose with it, and constantly trying to add new things and new ideas as you go, it can end up very jumbled and poorly integrated.

So, make a plan. Follow the plan. Execute on the plan.

Rule of cool is great and all, but sometimes you need to stay the course.

[nimble pond]

Could there be border changes to the tamriel map along with the future timeline that has yet to unfold? I know that area of western skyrim, eastern high rock, and northeastern hammerfell is a well contested area with many parties involved and I recall there being a border war there before, I bend'r mark or something like that. Perhaps orsinium will expand and take that territory for it's own borders between the 3 provinces?

[feral viper]

Geographical border changes, I doubt. But territorial, absolutely

[nimble pond]

Just a thought, I know hf is in a weakened state and not on good terms with the Empire for help. The thalmor no doubt would enjoy seeing hf lose some of it's territory. High Rock seems to be the only area around there not in shambles like skyrim Cyrodiil and hammerfell.

[forest surge]

Even 76 added some mechanics that I would love to see going forward, such as Area looting of dead bodies without having to necessarily go to all of them individually.

[nimble pond]

This was an interesting read and I've been pondering on the whole tower thing on Tamriel. But what if deactivating them all doesn't actually dissolved nirn into oblivion as believed, but instead unleashes this weapon/power that is literally a combination of all 8 (9) gods? Since 8 (9)seems to be a pretty recurring number in this game world. Damn, I'd hate to be up against a villain weilding that much power..
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/k2p5gd/matching_the_8_towers_with_8_divines/
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/f/f4/TESWheel.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1200?cb=20180821191234

[glad cypress]

I'm very interested in Masser and Secunda

[sly inlet]

Correct me if I’m wrong but most of the planets in mundus make up parts of the constellations right?

[nimble pond]

I don't know off the top of my head, but you're probably right

But for a character creation system, I was thinking of a astrological cosmology chart or wheel. I don't truly believe in that sort of thing, but I find them fun nonetheless. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7a/75/ef/7a75efa27e0d707895d8a93546ca3e8a.jpg

[pale walrus]

The war of the Bend'r Mak was, IIRC, a nordic invasion of HF. It ended with HF's borders staying intact, but Skyrim having a semi-piece of the NE corner - namely, half the city of Dragonstar. I doubt the Nords will have the means or inclination to invade HF anytime soon after the last dragonborn era, though. They're too messed up as a province.

[nimble pond]

Yea there's a lot of parties besides nords in that area particularly and I'm sure they'd all like to claim that territory for their own

[sly inlet]

Three way war between highrock hammerfell and skyrim actually I think

I might be wrong though because I don’t think there are any highrock helping side quests

Yeah it was three way just looked it up

Apparently hammerfell and highrock were allies though

[nimble pond]

You've got reachmen, orcs and someone else there too I think, I forget. But on-going border wars interested me. Yup and hf is weakened right now along with the nords and Imperials and thalmor lurking in the back. But really this seems like an opportunite moment for orcs to expand and take over the territory with everything else going on with their rivals and their struggles. But it's like with each province we visit (the last 3), even tho we as the player end up being a hero, the province is otherwise left in shambles in aftermath. So high rocks probably gonna get rocked and hammerfell hammered, even more so then from the previous war with the thalmor.

[sly inlet]

imagine if by the end of the game hammerfell get's sunk and the orcs or thalmor become the new left handed elves

[glad cypress]

Nords losing the thu'um really nerfed them hard, I can't think of a time they were relevant since Tiber

[pale walrus]

Remember that if you go north of dragonstar and stay east of Jehanna you get into a weird area that's a no-man's land. It's all mountains and icy wastes. The only 'people' there are the Falmer. As stone-age as they are, the Falmer still have a society. They even practice herding and magic. You have to wonder if they communicate by telepathy - there must be a way they 'talk' to each other.

[nimble pond]

In any case, I think the orcs will at some point make their own province and borders somewhere. It just sticks out a bit that out of all 10 playable races, they are the only ones in Tamriel without a province of their own yet, even while being under the empire's wing and serving as some of their greatest warriors. Not to mention having to be 2v1'd and still having the strength to rebuild each time.

[pale walrus]

If the Thalmor were politically astute, they would tell the Orcs "Claim some region as your own, and we will back your claim." That would be a crippling blow to the Legion and, by extension, the Empire.

[nimble pond]

Oh yes, if the thalmor were to make friendly relations with the orcs as allies. Be even more devastating to hf if it happens to take some of their northeastern territory. The thalmor may even establish a base of operations there so they could effectively hit hf from both the north and south.

[pale walrus]

Divide et Impera. I'm wondering if the Thalmor want to conquer HF or Cyrodiil first. In their place, I would retake Cyrodiil and power up that White Gold tower once more. To keep HF out of it (they might want to side with the Imperials out of self-interest - 'enemy of my enemy' sort of thing), I'd want to keep Forebears and Crowns antagonistic to each other, and as long as it didn't cause them to reunite, I'd back an Orsimer kingdom to drain strength from HR, HF and Cyrodiil. To keep Skyrim out of the picture, the only thing I can think of is to somehow establish contact with the Falmer and support them in a bid for control of the province surface. And for the Dunmer, I'd either support any further aggressive plans the Argonians might have or, alternately, simply come to terms with the Dunmer.

Note: the Thalmor need to show more political smarts than they've yet shown. The Sload are still their enemies, and I don't think they can count on the Maormer being unable to rebuild their navy or resume hostilities in some other manner.

[nimble pond]

I think the sload and Maormer actually had diplomatic relations funny enough

I think that's a vital area too up there by Bjoulsae river. Could put a real hammer in things

[sly inlet]

I lost enthusiasm to play daggerfall 😭

[nimble pond]

Daggerfall or Daggerfall Unity?

[sly inlet]

unity

[nimble pond]

Oh why

[sly inlet]

I already have like most mods though lol

[sly inlet]

idk my brain is stupid

[nimble pond]

Maybe you're just tired lol brains need breaks too

[sly inlet]

yeah lol

watch me never come back to it

[nimble pond]

It happens lol

Wild thought but yk, with all the spin-offs like trading card games, mmorpgs, mobile.. I'd totally go for a TES-themed fighter like MK or DOA to get that fill. I don't think something like this would ever work in the normal TES games. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RSpP6F2waWw&pp=ygUTRGVhZCBmYW50YXN5IHJlbWFrZQ%3D%3D

[pale walrus]

Interesting. If the Sload and Maormer have diplomatic relations, that would facilitate a coordinated attack on Summerset, with whom they both believe they have an axe to grind. Yeah, there's no question - if the Thalmor were smart, they'd be trying to minimize the need to use their military in Tamriel and would only engage in conflicts where they were assured of a quick and low cost victory.

[nimble pond]

Pretty much seems what they been doing lately, sitting back while applying pressure where it hurts

[sly inlet]

Who would be in it do you think?

My picks I can think of are, Vivec, Mehrunes Dagon, Miraak, Pelinal Whitestrake, Mannimarco, and Hunding

[nimble pond]

Oh gosh there's so many to choose from, I'd want as many as possible to play as with their own powers and abilities and fighting styles 🤩

[nimble pond]

Lydia! Lol 😂

[sly inlet]

Lmao

[nimble pond]

She carries all my hoarding junk so probably hits like a tank!

[pale walrus]

That brings something to mind: I very much would like all companions in ES6 to be immortal. I had companions die on me twice in ES5 - especially because they kept walking into my line of fire. It got to the point that I had to leave them behind at the entrance to some dungeon or cave because the idiots would actually trigger encounters I was trying to avoid thru stealth. So: I really hope companions are all immortal, like Aela or Serana.

Oh - Also, I dunno about all of you, but I used companions basically as mules.

[nimble pond]

Sounds like you need a giant for a companion to horde all your stuff and then ride on their back on the way back to town.

Would have been fun companion to have. Walk into a group of bandits thinking "I don't have time for these sideshows right now." So just sit back and watch your buddy fling them clear across the map

[sly inlet]

this is what everyone does, I honestly wish that they would remove weight limits in tes6 or make weapon skills more detrimental on how much damage a weapon does again like in morrowind and just let you respec somehow so you aren't incentivized to pick up every high tier weapon you see

also I don't think I've ever had a companion in skyrim

fo4 companions are so underbaked imo, then again I just don't like that game

[feral viper]

Maaaan.. now I miss Monty.

[sly inlet]

Do restoration spells do damage to undead in daggerfall?

[nimble pond]

Yes, a true loss to civilization 😞

Man, I just realized, all that snow in Skyrim and no lovely snowmans.. 😐
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pq8iyhMFLYE&pp=ygUbQ2FsdmluIGFuZCBob2JiZXMgY2hyaXN0bWFz

[feral viper]

Snow men would be too dangerous. they would end up as Frost Wraiths with intelligence, and quickly overthrow the Nords. Therefore, Nord Children are taught not to make them.

[nimble pond]

Stop-motion killcams in tes would be insane too. Wished the Blades had more martial arts about them in gameplay, but yeah.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DpefYPLH67A&pp=ygUGSGlkYXJp

[night violet]

One of my hopes in TES VI is being able to use restoration to heal other people outside ourselves or companions. Someone dying? Let us save them to get a slightly different quest ending.

I mean, I never not use restoration in Skyrim. It's just I don't ever play a resto focused character that's role played like a healer as there is no use for the spells outside healing yourself or your allies.

[feral viper]

Yeah, there are a few quests in past games where you're asked for a Healing potion... And I'm always like 'Uh... Why don't I just heal you?'

Nope. It MUST be a healing potion. I don't care if you're a Master Restoration Wizard who can regrow lost limbs, this boo-boo is only fixable with a cheap over the counter curative made in someone's basement.

[feral viper]

But that's largely symptomatic of design issues where things aren't integrated into baseline behaviours, but are tacked on after the fact.

Another example is 'Unconscious' in Starfield. EM weapons were clearly implemented as an after thought, rather than having a healthy and damage system which integrated them from the start. As such, they're only useful in quest specifically designed to account for them.

[dim reef]

i have genuine questions for BGS: where.is.TES6? The teaser trailer is almost 6 years old, i'm not joking, go search and look when it was posted, bro Skyrim was in 2011. such massive success and we need to wait all this time? Come on, say something omg

start to post lore videos, say TES6 development is coming nicely, announce the year of release, bro i'm a big fan of BGS games that's why i stick around, but they are testing our patience so very much

[feral viper]

It is currently being worked on.

[livid ingot]

After Skyrim, they worked on Fallout 4, then they worked on Fallout 76, then they worked on Starfield, now they've just started working on TES VI.
The context that the TES VI teaser was released matter a lot. Another big game studio, I think Blizzard, had earlier that year been on the receiving end of a storm of criticism after fans had expected an announcement of the next game but instead got hawked a mobile spin-off game.
Bethesda (still getting regular inquires about TES VI) was in the same position. People were getting hyped about their planned announcement at E3 but all Bethesda had was a spin-off mobile title.
I think it's pretty clear that they were hoping to avoid the same backlash. But, I can't really prove that assertion. Still, Todd was up front that the game would not be coming anytime soon and that Starfield would be the next game

[feral viper]

To reinforce the context, when that trailer was released, new threads asking if TES had been abandoned by Bethesda were practically a DAILY occurrence on the forums.

It was a way to placate people, and make it clear that they did intend to make TES6.

[nimble pond]

If they let us make our very own kingdom from scratch in say, High Rock, do you think it's existence will be in books of the next game? Or maybe they would just have it to where a kingdom gets completely decimated (even more so than what happened to Helgen) and you get to rebuild it as you envision it?

[feral viper]

If it is, I expect something more like Raven Rock. Where the location and name are imposed, though you can choose what goes there

[forest surge]

I think Raven Rock I think the Enclave Base from Fallout 3

[feral viper]

Ebony came before... Uuh... Whatever polymer alloy the Enclave uses.

[dim reef]

the teaser was posted 2018... look how much time they are taking and haven't said a word about it. That's their greatest flaw, lack of communication, they don't know how to communicate and infuriates me

[livid ingot]

I don't think I agree there. Todd has repeatedly said they were working on Starfield first and that TES VI was a long way off. We know it takes Beth about four years to develop a title. At the soonest we should have expected the next game by 2025. Then Covid happened, then Starfield got delayed for a year.
I get it. My friends and I have been darkly joking about it for ages. But they've only just started working on TES VI full-time.
Let them cook.
I don't want to have waited so long to just get a rushed game. Give it a few more years. There are a ton of great games out there you can play in the meantime!

I agree releasing the teaser when they did was a mistake. I just wanted to try to explain why it was probably done

[sly inlet]

Anyone else think they might add tsaesci descendants as a playable race just to make it easier for people to make east asian looking player characters?

[dim reef]

Give them a few more years!!!!!?????

no way, i'm sorry but no way

[pale walrus]

Hang on - there's another way to look at this.

The problem with BGS is that they have consistently bitten off more than they can chew. Think about it - two extremely powerful franchises (ES and FO), a whole bunch of spinoffs/knockoffs (including card games, mobile games and an MMO for FO), and then SF. Before being bought by MSFT, they were far too ambitious for their size.

I am actually hopeful. Like I've said before, MSFT seems to be looking for ways to help speed things up and get new FO and ES products done sooner. If MSFT and BGS can successfully juggle resource demands and speed things up while still maintaining quality, we'll all be very happy. I'm very hopeful they can do this.

Oh, and - I bet ES6 is coming out in 2026. I'm also betting it will be 'reduced' in content quite deliberately, with the plan being to release a base game with solid mechanics and then fill in content over an extended period of time with multiple DLCs (significantly more than usual for an ES title.)

[sly inlet]

why do you think this just wondering?

[dim reef]

with they deliver solid content, fun quests and a great writing then i can agree, and instead of multiple dlcs only they could do expansions and dlcs then i'm fine with it

being able to build your village, coordinate things, choice consequence with many outcomes, that's what an RPG is set for and i hope they deliver

all the modern requirements being met at day 1 like FOV, maps, dlss/ fsr/ xess and so on so forth

then i will not complain at all and will even praise their attempt, but with they don't deliver i'm done with the franchises for real

[crude cedar]

I fully expect Tes6 to be a dumpster fire.

[pale walrus]

Fair question. The way I see it, BGS has fallen into a pattern. FO76 was received poorly and clearly had many problems, but by steadily working on fixes and enhancements, they've turned things around and now get very good reviews from the fan base. SF was released with a lot of 'empty space' and some clear problems, though there was a core set of capabilities that seemed to make most customers happy, and the Shattered Space DLC has been touted as both a major 'fix' and a major expansion. This makes sense, because they didn't put the ability to explore 1,000 worlds there for nothing. I'm guessing they'll use this same approach on ES6. Also, MSFT has made it very clear that they want more and faster output. I'm hoping that the combined BGS and MSFT management will find a way to do that while still preserving quality.

[feral viper]

I mean, the track record for the last 24 years basically guarantees it.

Literally every new TES is 'the death of TES', and every Bethesda game gets raked over the coals for bugs, janky features, weird AI behaviours, etc.

And yet... People are still playing them years or decades after the fact. Because despite their problems (and there are legitimate problems) no one makes games like they do.

[crude cedar]

Their old games were real gems.

But I feel a big problem is 90% of the AAA industry has lost what makes them so addictive and fun.
They are big cooperations with no balls instead a bunch of nerds making something they love.

[feral viper]

Spoiler warning...

Games have ALWAYS been a product. Their goal, has always been to make money. And that has always come with compromises.

On the whole though.. man, old games do NOT hold up. Anything more than 7-10 years old is clunky as hell, and the further back you go, the more nostalgic cope you need to compensate.

I recall the Diablo II remake. Diablo II remains one of my favourite games, but man. That did not age well. I even went back to the original to see if it was just the remake, and... Well, I don't think I'm ever going to play D2 again, just to preserve my fond memories.

[crude cedar]

Hmmm, not sure what to say but 7-10 years old you consider clunky?

I must be getting to old lol

[feral viper]

Well, let's just say... I am old enough to have wrenched my knee climbing stairs too fast today.

[crude cedar]

I consider some of the best games ever made to be 10-30 years old, I will still play them and enjoy them through.

Bethesda has had its head cut off for a good decade now, and in general the decision making/innovating is questionable at best.

[sly inlet]

Hmmmm maybe but I feel like they would rather just delay it than do that given how anticipated it is, it could just be shooting themselves in the foot when they plan to have the content fix only a year after the release

[crude cedar]

Bethesda better release Tes6 bursting in the seams with nut worthy content.

The waits been to long, and their previous titles have been so underwhelming I have not bothered to purchase them

It's also going to be rough getting into the new music, I'm really curious if they will change the tes themes

[slow garnet]

Put it this way. Which is coming out first: TES6, or The Winds Of Winter...

[pale walrus]

Think of ESO. There's a tsunami of content now. But when it first started, it was much more limited. Starting with a base game with decent content and then greatly expanding the content over time can work - IF what you have in the base game is very, very good.

[sly inlet]

yeah but that and 76 are both mmos

and 76 and starfield were both experimental titles for bethesda

also covid hit starfield hard

[pale walrus]

True. But based on the tremendous lifespan of Skyrim (because of the wealth of content that has been available thru the Creation Club) as well as the ZOS and BGS experiences with ESO and FO76, respectively, I am under the impression that SF was built with this express methodology in mind. The proof will be in the Shattered Space DLC. If it fixes the main complaints in the base game and also brings a giant chunk of new, highly appealing content, then I'd say we're seeing the development style of BGS going forward. Let's see this fall.

[sly inlet]

hmmmm maybe, they were definitely using stafield to experiment endless replayability

it just didn't land to well

i don't see dlc for tes 6 lasting longer than like 3 years though

[pale walrus]

Well, they want the title to have a 10 year lifespan (per Todd Howard.) So there needs to be periodic releases of fresh content. Personally I don't think the Creation Club will be enough if they reallyh want to keep the title alive for a full decade.

[nimble pond]

It could and couldn't. There really is no universally set number that decides if it is or isn't, so it's easiest to just say it's an online or multiplayer game because there really is no other identity for it. I played older MMO's and while there was comparably a larger amount of ppl around (mostly bots), that could be why it really doesn't feel quite the same.

When Todd said he wanted the game to last a decade, I thought he just meant he wanted to build the kinda game that would last and entertain the way Skyrim did. And not meaning adding new dlc to it for a decade. But I could be wrong, that's just the way I interpreted it.

[feral viper]

I mean... Skyrim's had a 10 year lifespan, depending on how you view it.

It really just comes down to how one interprets 10 year lifespan. Does that mean support for a decade? If does it mean people will play it for a decade? Is it an indication of ongoing commitment on the part of development? Or is it an indication of projected development times moving forward with 3 franchises?

[pale walrus]

My view is speculative. However, it is based on Todd Howard's own statements on ES6. He has said multiple times "this is going to still be played 10 years after it's released." That sounds to me like a deliberate goal for development. Now of course, maybe he's simply saying that his goal is to release a title as popular as Skyrim and Creation Club contributions will keep players involved for a long time - just as with Skyrim. But I hope I'm right and that BGS keeps rolling out fresh content periodically for ES6 over a decade.

[eager remnant]

I've always thought Howard was referring to Bethesda's vibrant modding community keeping these games popular.

[feral viper]

I'm with Pseron on this one. My interpretation has always been that it's indicative of how long they expect between release and the announcement of the next game in the franchise.

Effectively expecting people to be waiting about 10 years between titles, and designing games which will be able to at least hopefully have that range of relevance.

But I also generally expect games to stop seeing support after at most 2 years, unless they are a direct live-service game.

[livid ingot]

I agree, it's that. Not continuous DLC. But both player mods and officially endorsed paid mods through Bethesda's Creation Club (or however it gets rebranded in the future)

[nimble pond]

@pale walrus what if we find some dwemer animunculi that are more intelligent (like on the level our AI is going, instead of them all just mindlessly guarding the empty ruins) and they realize their masters are probably not coming back and begin building their own cities within dwemer ruins, traders and all that and also self-preservation, keeping themselves going and building more of their kind and perhaps some new ones.

[feral viper]

Rebranding. The ultimate sign of corporate cowardice. Got a bad reputation? Change the name and pretend you're something new!

[feral viper]

While I do like the idea of machines achieving sentience, I'm... Honestly tired of the Dwemer well being tapped every time someone wants something 'advanced'.

Airships, steam engines, fire arms... The more times to go to that well, the more tacky it becomes. Someone's gotta spread the love a bit.

[nimble pond]

It's not that I was looking for something advanced, I just accept the dwemer are gone, but would like to breathe some life into these dwemer ruins and I think having some ai-like npcs around to be pretty interesting. Tho it would be pretty funny if the animunculi reconstructed the dwemer into animunculi, so it's like the dwemer are back, but not exactly as you might have remembered them 😅 seems fitting seeing as how the real dwemer were absorbed into their giant walking brass.
And quite frankly idk where something like this would fit elsewhere, I mean the animunculi are already there

[feral viper]

Maybe.

There's definitely ways to play with the idea.

[pale walrus]

That's a pretty cool idea. It allows creative BGS writers to develop a whole new race along very unique lines.

[pale walrus]

It would be neat if somebody 'cracked the code' on dwemer technology and built their own more sophisticated innovations on it - essentially using the dwemer tech as 'starting principles' and then inventing wholly new things. I actually think that should be the 'responsibility' of either the Altmer or the Bretons, though it would be quite amusing if the Dunmer did it and gave the Altmer an inferiority complex.

[nimble pond]

I have hoped that the dwemer, shortly before their dissappearence had designed and created a few animunculi that were vastly more intelligent than the typical ones we've seen so that something like this could occur, or perhaps just one that re-creates his kind in mass population. A sort of AI-Frankenstein twist.

[pale walrus]

Kind of like a master AI to control all the automatons. Maybe this 'level 1' super genius AI has several level 2's that assist.

[nimble pond]

Probably be able to control lesser animunculi, but I'd prefer it create more of it's own level, so it's just not another Mr. House new vegas thing. Let them be their own race and not just all tied to one super-ai. That or as I said having the dwemer and their society re-created in animunculi form. Maybe a bit of both, many options available. Maybe this way we could get a playable dwemer race thru the new animunculi race since even though they have the shape of the dwemer they would still be considered animunculi. Since the height issue might have been problematic (not sure, they've been said to be about average size of a human, but maybe a lil shorter, not sure if enough to make a difference) with them being more robotic now, they could have a few adjustments like having extend-able legs with the toggle of a button to reach normal height. Sort of like crouching. So idk, maybe the dwemer could live on thru the animunculi besides us just looting their dwemer ruins discovering new tech as usual and guarded by what's left of otherwise lesser animunculi. We can already play as beastfolk, so why not AI machine or part-machine?

[rose fjord]

You think they might say something about fable and elder scrolls 6 on June 9th summer games fest

[nimble pond]

Hmm maybe Fable. TES6 isn't expected, but if they do, it would probably be something small and only because of the dissatisfaction expressed by some over the wait period.

[sly inlet]

I want an adult swim elder scrolls tv show in the vain of aqua teen hunger force

Not cannon neccesarily

[glad cypress]

Love fable, I hope that comes out soon

[pale walrus]

unlikely

[pale walrus]

you mean "canon, necessarily"

[sly inlet]

the new C0DA

[feral viper]

The new C0DA is a BL-18" mkI.

https://tenor.com/view/speedball-cannon-gif-18004280

[feral viper]

My general problem is that the Dwemer end up being the source of every idea regarding anything remotely industrial, mechanical or particularly sophisticated. Orreries, explosives, cannons, clockwork, etc.

It paints this idea of linear, hyperdifusion view of the world and it's history that ultimately removes the function of individual ingenuity and progress.

[granite star]

Hi everyone. Is there a section for "the elder scrolls 6/VI"?

[eager remnant]

This is it. 🙂

[granite star]

Hi everyone. For the elder scrolls 6, who hopes: "1. That it has a proper unarmed skill tree" and/or "2. that creations(also called mods) are available from the beginning of the game/day one/that we do not have to wait too long to get it"?

[livid ingot]

I hope so. But I doubt it will
||it's crazy Starfield still doesn't???||

[sly inlet]

That’s not entirely true, sometimes it’s the other hyper advanced ancient elves (Ayleids)

[pale walrus]

Expecting mods to be available day 1 is unrealistic, to put it kindly.

[granite star]

I know. Do you hope that "the elder scrolls 6" has a "unarmed/hand to hand skill tree"?

[pale walrus]

It could indeed be interesting. They'll have to take care in its development. An individual highly skilled in hand-to-hand should have the option of focusing on striking, grappling, throws, joint locks, or a combination of all of them. Striking itself has its own complexities - using hands, feet, elbows, knees, even forehead. And, of course, certain enemy targets will be more or less vulnerable to damage from such attacks. The damage will have to be localized as well - a punch to the face is very different in effect to a kick to the kneecap. Let's see if they tackle it, and let's see how they implement it.

[glad cypress]

Different forms of physical damage is something I'd like to see, making the sword/axe/mace weapons more useful than just damage multi and speed, and I think hand to hand could play a part in that

Especially throws, I love ragdolls and I want a fus ro dah equivalent in every game I play (not just blowing them away but throwing people regardless)

[nimble pond]

Already doing another next-gen console this early? Geez, it's only 2024

[rose fjord]

Also do you think Bethesda Will put out a disc version of elder scrolls 6 when it comes out

[pale walrus]

You mean on vinyl? 🧐

[rose fjord]

Yes disc in case because when ever Bethesda studios get a tour they always display what they have made

[primal pivot]

How many vampire bloodlines or clans are there in tes series?

[sly inlet]

Anyone else scared they might over arabify the redguard?

I still want them to have a lot of african in their mix, especially west african

[livid ingot]

Very high possibility, given what we've seen of them.

Their "Africaness" has been much more of an exception in the series, rather than the rule

You see a little bit of it there in the Redguard comic + game. But outside that...

They're basically TES's equivalent of a vaguely Islamic cultural mishmash that many fantasy series have

They would have to take the Redguards in a sharply new creative direction, methinks

Though in order to do so, they would probably work to create a blend of styles and motifs, so that past representations of Hammerfell aren't completely overturned

The long-defunct Oblivion Tamriel Rebuilt project produced a lot of good concept art towards this end

Which you can find on their website if you want an idea: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/files/TR_Artbook.pdf

You can definitely tell they tried to take the existing templates for Hammerfell but give them a artistic spin that draws more from styles of the African continent

I have to give Bethesda major props when designing Skyrim that they took inspiration from African art for the Dragon Priest masks in the game. It shows that they're really flexible when it comes to where they draw inspiration from and aren't entirely reliant on long-established artistic tropes

[sly inlet]

I found a post on reddit that looks into the type of art the bethesda concept artists have been saving on their pinterest accounts and it seems that they are honing in on a petra/ethiopian carved home inspired architecture as well as some seemingly saharan or saudi tradition wooden huts and if this is the type of aesthetic they use I think I will end up very satisfied with it

https://web.archive.org/web/20210331004757/https://www.pinterest.com/raylgun/architecture/

There is also some stuff in here that points to highrock

[feral viper]

Unclear, and we've had conflicting statements over the years.

[feral viper]

Which I hope only indicates border regions, at most.

I am adamantly against a 2 provinces game.

[livid ingot]

Intriguing. Maybe they will return to the Illiac Bay again, rather than one province or the other

[sly inlet]

Eh I think they could probably handle it, I think the reason they want to include highrock is because they probably feel like it’s too small to put as its own map in a modern sized map

[feral viper]

I don't. In fact, they've given me no reason to believe they could handle 2 cultures at once, let alone in an interesting or thoughtful way.

[sly inlet]

We’ll see, either way they would have been doing two cultures with the crowns and forebears

[sly inlet]

Daggerfall says over 100 in the iliac bay alone which is just funny asf to me

[primal pivot]

by conflicting you mean usep wikia along with other sites not just with people having dif presentations of this and that clan right?

[feral viper]

The Crowns and Forebears are at least 2 divisions of one major cultural branch with a common origin.

So far, since Morrowind, we haven't even managed to get subcultures out of them. There's nothing to indicate any ability to do deep cultural nuance.

[livid ingot]

Well technically the Crowns and Forebears are political factions. But you would definitely see cultural differences between say, Redguards living in the interior and those living on the coast. Or those living in Colovia and those living in the Illiac Bay

[sly inlet]

I think you underestimate them tbh

[feral viper]

More like, what constitutes a bloodline as changed over time. Originally, it seems to have been linked specifically to Clans. Similar to how they work in The World of Darkness.

Then, with Skyrim, the shift seems to have been more to variations on the curse, with different types of Vampirism having different results.

And since ESO, this has been reinforced, with now 3 main strains known.

[sly inlet]

skyrim alone has 4 different flavors of nord

[feral viper]

Maybe. But I prefer to rely on basing my judgements on the evidence presented.

And since Morrowind, Bethesda has shown a general inability to do any real sort of cultural development. The best we get are memes.

Cyrodiil it's self was basically devoid of anything you could call Culture, and Skyrim barely gave lip service to it.

And this is continued in the other IPs as well, with their most recent outing constituting watered down tropes and cowboys rather than anything approaching an actual thoughtful development of cultures.

[sly inlet]

I get why you say that I think they could do more but in skyrim alone there are the generic nords, reachmen, the skaal, and the dragon cultists, you could also argue a split between the imperials nords and the stormcloaks

I have hope that they will try to put a lot more effort into tes6 to actually show differences given how anticipated it has been

[sly inlet]

yeah starfield was just an outerworlds rip off ngl

[feral viper]

Nah, it was far better than that. But Outerworlds was... Well, I can't ACTUALLY say what I think without getting in trouble.

Sufficed to say, I don't think Obsidian makes games worth playing.

But, i can hope as well. However, as Rowboat Girlyman says.

'It is our hope that will damn us'.

Now, he was talking about hope in the face of a constantly tightening noose of war that threatened to consume the galaxy, but... Well.

Sometimes even the Papa Smurf has words of insight.

Until Bethesda has demonstrated the ability to achieve at least Morrowind levels of cultural depth with ONE province, I do not want to see them attempting two.

Sure, they may surprise me. But more than likely they will continue to disappoint

[sly inlet]

The good news is that most of the depth that hammerfell got was cannonized in redguard and todd probably has an emotional connection with that game since it was the first one he directed

[feral viper]

Even then, I think there's a lot of range left to explore.

And unfortunately, ESO has moved away from the Carribean influences present in that game to a more... Classical medieval Arab style.

[sly inlet]

I imagine that they probably will end up showing carribean influence given that there’s a pretty decent possibility they add ships to the game

[forest surge]

I wouldn’t worry yet, knowing a variety of Redguard Styles are to come

[livid ingot]

Yeah, wait until the first screenshots of the game to be released. Then we can critique

It's almost impossible to predict the art direction a game will take

[sly inlet]

Wdym?

[forest surge]

ESO tends to introduce different varieties of styles for the 10 races at times when they get new expansions.

[pale walrus]

Why not East African? Think about it - in the broadest sense, this would include social, cultural and historical influences from the Horn (including Ethiopia), the Zanzibar coast, the Masai and even the Zulu. Could be very, very cool, man.

[pale walrus]

Gently disagree. I think you could EASILY dedicate a full title to HR. THere's a tremendous amount of depth to that province, and geographically it's quite fascinating.

[sly inlet]

Yeah it seems like east africa specifically ethiopia is what they are going for given the art I shared here earlier, I honestly love that because I love coptic era architecture but the reason I wanted west africa is mainly just because I like the sound of west african languages and music and think an elder scrolls Mansa Muss would be cool but now that I think about it elsweyr has a Mansa Musa type in eso I think

[sly inlet]

Oh yeah I know they could but I feel like they would worry the average consumer would look at a map of tamriel and see highrock is smaller than skyrim and whine about it

[sly inlet]

If they do go a coptic architecture route I hope we get an island based on Malta

[sly inlet]

How does that work, like a subrace or?

Or just different cosmetics?

[forest surge]

Different cosmetics.

[sly inlet]

Interesting

Is there a page I could look at for this I’m interested to see the variety

[sly inlet]

Also they seem to be dipping their toes into Turkiye (Turkey) a lot too which I love, would be cool if we see a city like Istanbul

Or an underground redguard city

[sly inlet]

Found one

[pale walrus]

Here's an idea, guys: the Redguard in HF could have multiple influences from a variety of African and Middle eastern cultures. Based upon where a given group/tribe of Redguard are found - the Alik'r, Sentinel, Hegathe, and so forth - maybe certain of those influences would be more pronounced than others. However: the Redguard who have survived in Yokuda and, perhaps the islands between Tamriel and Yokuda might have a more Caribbean 'flavor' to their art, architecture, social mores and general culture. That could be pretty cool. Lots of work for BGS, but they have allegedly been working on ES6 (including pre-production, which means formulating themes, stories and artistic renderings) since 2012. So I think they could do this if they put in the proper effort.

[sly inlet]

yeah I don't think we have seen the islands between yokuda and hammerfell since redguard

tbh the whole carribean thing doesn't even seem entirely redguard to me just west tamriel island dwellers

[sly inlet]

nvm we have

[pale walrus]

Well, think of it this way - the OPPORTUNITY to make a distinction between the redguard of HF and Yokuda is there. There's a certain logic to it as well - a people who have to pick up roots and move to a distant land will be culturally changed by the very act of having to make that move. Let's see if BGS picks up on that. There's no question that a HF-based ES6 offers a deluge of opportunities to have a title as rich or even more so than ES3.

[sly inlet]

oh yeah, from what we know the yokudans seem to be a bit more like steppe people and japanese

it makes sense for them to be steppe given how irl turkish cultures began in the asian steppe before migrating into Turkiye much like the Yokudans to Hammerfell

also the islands we see in eso are 300+ years before Adventures: Redguard

[night violet]

Alamlexia, learning how to drive: What happens if I press the gas and the brake at the same time?
Vivec: The car takes a screenshot.
Sothia Sil: Please pull over. I’m driving now.

Vivec, staring at Almalexia in a cage: ...Why are they in a cage?
Sotha Sil: Because they growled at me.

Sotha Sil: And here we see Almalexia and Vivec in their natural habitat. Texting eachother variations of the word "garlic bread" to try to make eachother laugh.
Almalexia: Gaelic bread.
Vivec: Grueling brad.
Almalexia: Ha ha, glamorous beans.

Vivec: Sometimes I drink milk straight from the container.
Almalexia: The cow??
Vivec: What?
Sotha Sil: Almalexia, W H Y?

[feral viper]

What in the nine hells...

[feral viper]

I know if I was handling it... There would be 4 main factions of Redguard.

The Crowns, who would be a blend of Japanese Shogunate, Age of Sail Carribean, and Ottoman Empire.

The Forebears, who would be a blend of Moorish Spain, Caliphate Egypt, and Mali Empire.

The Alik'r, would he inspired by a blend of Bedouin, Tuareg and San peoples. With a healthy dose of Firemen.

The Ash'abah, who would be a blend of Romani, Turkish nomads, and Hunic peoples.

You'd then have border peoples along the Cyrodiil and Highrock borders who serve as sort of a cultural buffer for those regions.

Specifically, Dragonstar, Elinhir, and to a lesser extent Rihad.

Rihad specifically id probably push to be more like Yokohama, with a specific Foreign Quarter while the majority of the city is dminantly Forebear.

[night violet]

I've always gotten the forbearers and crowns mixed up. I always think the Forebearers are the ones that respect the older traditions while the crowns embrace the new divines.

[feral viper]

It took some practice for me too. I think it's the Forebear name. Sounds too much like Forefather.

In reality, it basically means 'the tolerant faction'.

[wide garnet]

Just Stormermia having some fun…

[livid ingot]

In the PGE3 there is also the Lhotun, who are the bipartisan union faction, so naturally they're hated by both Crowns and Forbears.
BUT
The political situation has changed significantly since the 3rd Era.
Hammerfell is independent, the Crowns and Forebears are in rapprochement, and I somewhat doubt the Lhotunic faction would have outlived it's namesake

[night violet]

I enjoy playing with incorrect quotes lol

[feral viper]

We're also 230 years removed from Lhotun, and his faction never really expanded beyond Sentinel as far as we can tell.

I could see them being an extremely minor faction localised in Sentinel which gradually becomes more important as tensions rise, and they find relevance again.

[livid ingot]

The Forebears are really at a low point too. They suffered the most from the Dominion's attacks, and as the primary collaborators of the Empire were betrayed/abandoned by the Empire, and a good part rescued by their archrivals

They could be under threat of absorption into the Crown faction, now there is a reconciliation in effect.

This could mean Hammerfell is ripe for entirely new political divisions as its inhabitants try to decide in what direction independent Hammerfell should go. And one that doesn't fall along traditional fault lines between Crown and Forebear

[feral viper]

A lot of it would depend too in the specific plots and crisis of the game that set the stage.

[livid ingot]

Yeah, definitely. 🤔 We know Bethesda is going to cook up some big crisis for the MQ. Hard to predict what that would be

I've also argued in the past that the Forebears are TES's sole republican/parliamentary faction based on a couple of lines. It's possible that the reconciliation is extremely short-lived as the decision as to who should be High King and how much power he should have becomes an issue

[feral viper]

I know what I would do, but... It's basically just fanfiction at this point.

[livid ingot]

Well, do tell. I was just going to speculate what direction they might go with the MQ

[night violet]

It would be neat if they tied in a location in a future ESO chapter to TES VI. Like a side quest in ESO, maybe the undead villain of that side quest returns for vengeance in TES VI. Would be a fun easter egg.

[livid ingot]

They might. I heard from somewhere (no idea if it's true) that BGS and ZOS were working together on lore.

[night violet]

That's a confirmed fact. They have a Lore Master who consults with BGS to get things approved. It's hilarious when people claim ESO isn't canon.

[livid ingot]

I mean for TES VI. Like BGS was consulting ZOS, not the other way around

[night violet]

Ah. That would make sense if the new game will take place in an area we've already been to in ESO

[livid ingot]

Plus it's been like 12 years since BGS has done a TES game, and a lot of people who worked on Skyrim are gone

It's like ZOS are the TES lore experts now. 😄

[night violet]

I mean that makes sense, given they have done a new chapter, basically a mini TES game every year since 2016

At the Bards college in Solitude.

"master, can you tell us about the second era?"

"Sure!" The master of novices pulls out a map and sets it on fire. "Real example of what life was like in the second era."

[feral viper]

Essentially, taking a lead from Skyrim, the 'main story' is divided into 2 components. The Mythic, end of the world scenario, and the Main, political scenario.

The Main, is a Dominion advance into Hammerfell. Using the inability to control piracy as a casus belli the Dominon has again moved forces into contested territories in Hammerfell. Fearing a full blown war, this has triggered the various kingdoms to react in different ways, driving up political tensions in the region.

This triggers the Mythic story, with the emergence of a pirate King who claims to be the HoonDing, and leads a reborn Hiradirge.

The Mythic story focuses not on being the HoonDing, but stopping him.

The political story focuses on trying to establish a collective front, and push out the Dominion presence entirely.

[potent ember]

What if in hammerfell (assuming the game is set there) there is a dwemer ruin that works like hidden valley bunker and makes sandstorms?

[night violet]

Idk if it was ever debunked, but ages ago there was some rumors about TES VI floating around. One said factions and marriage would be more important and impactful to the game. Kind of hope that turns out to be true. I just wonder what Todd Howard meant when he said TES VI would be the ultimate fantasy life simulator.

[feral viper]

Well, that's likely a given, as the Rourken were present in Hammerfell for some time.

[livid ingot]

If it was ages ago, it was almost certainly untrue. They only really started working on the game at the end of 2023

They would have had plans of course, but those rarely survive development

[night violet]

Hmm. What if the Ravenwatch were slated to be in TES VI? Like, that could be super cool. Adusa and Gwendis and the rest.

Have we ever had a faction of good vampires in TES main series?

[livid ingot]

Nope, I don't think so

[night violet]

That could be cool. Maybe something like:

If you become a vampire, you get invited to either House Ravenwatch or the Bad vampire faction. You help wipe out the other faction.

Or if not a vampire, you can side with some vampire hunters and wipe out one or both factions.

Just throwing ideas lol

[livid ingot]

This is a unique take, regarding how the HoonDing might play a role.
I agree that the Hiradirge are a candidate as a potential threat. My fear though is that instead of a rogue band of sword singers they're going to be geomancers instead, based primarily on comments from the PGE3 and the presence of Wind and Sand in the Dragonborn dlc https://www.imperial-library.info/content/wind-and-sand

I fear people have worked themselves up over Yokuda being sunk by a sword stroke when Beth already has different plans in the works for quite some time

[feral viper]

As far as the HoonDing goes, I think they are in a very unique position to explore the idea that... Every story has two sides, even myths. And a Hero in one perspective, can be a villian in another.

[night violet]

I doubt they would allow Tamerial to be sunk anyways lol

[livid ingot]

Vampires are a popular faction, this is in the realm of possibility I think. Although like Skyrim they might wait for DLC

[feral viper]

As far as the Hiradirge... I don't think that's at risk. ESO outright tells us that it was an Ansei who sunk Yokuda with their Shehai.

By the closest we can get to a 1st hand witness, the Warrior Constellation it's self.

[livid ingot]

Hmm I'm glad ZOS agrees that sinking Yokuda with a sword is way cooler than earth magic

[forest surge]

And Rada Al-Saran, a Yokudan who became a Vampire before Yokuda sank.

[feral viper]

Indeed.

So, we've got 2 first hand accounts, which blame Sword Singers. Pulling a fast one and making it Earth Mages would... Well, be quite the hoodwink.

[night violet]

Yeah. Rada is super cool though. He fought a goddess to a draw. And then got depressed about it.

[livid ingot]

We are due for a 'nobody' hero if Daggerfall-Morrowind-Oblivion,-Skyrim are a pattern in that regard

[forest surge]

That would be Leki

[night violet]

Yeah, he fought the goddess of swords to a draw.

And was still depressed that he didn't win.

I wish we could have talked some Sense into Rada. He would have been a cool character to see more of.

[livid ingot]

Here's the (in my opinion) notorious passage from the PGE3, just so other people know what I was referencing

It debated to this day what the nature of the disaster was that destroyed Yokuda. Tremors of the earth were not uncommon in the continent’s history, and many argue that it was simply a natural catastrophic series of quakes at the foundation of the land. Others suggest that it may have had human origins: during the last civil war, a renegade band of Ansei called the Hiradirge were said to be masters of stone magic. When they were defeated in battle in 1E 792, the argument goes, they had their revenge on the entire land, destroying what they would never rule.

🤢

[night violet]

Yeah an Ansei cutting the land with a sword is way cooler lol

[feral viper]

Nah. We've never had a 'nobody' hero. People just downplay how important the Agent and HoK were to prop up the claim that we did.

[night violet]

I mean The emperor says right up front in Oblivion that you are fated to defy Dagon. Which seems like pretty chosen one stuff lol

[feral viper]

And the Agent was a close personal friend and trusted agent of the Emperor's. You're basically James Bond in Daggerfall.

[livid ingot]

Fair point, but I didn't mean a literal nobody. The Nerevarine and the Dragonborn are unique in their anointing by the gods and centrality to the plot. The CoC can't wear the Amulet of Kings. The HoD gets stomped if they try to use Numidium.

[night violet]

True but If you do shivering isles first thing, you do everything as a Daedric Prince in oblivion

[livid ingot]

In the end they're shepherds. They decide events, but don't really cause them, if that makes sense.

[livid ingot]

Good point, 😄, there is no canonical order to how events happen in Oblivion

[feral viper]

There's also no guarantee that the HoK is the one who became Sheo.

[night violet]

I mean, his words during the quest about being there when Martin Septem became a dragon seems to imply he at least has the memories of the HoK

[feral viper]

Or, that he was simply paying attention to the events.

[past surge]

hi there, is there anywhere you can get help from staff. like an email or form you fill in like you can with fallout.

[livid ingot]

#1087805579399004210 probably

[crude cedar]

Ive heard about this, but i forget what video i saw it in

[livid ingot]

Yeah, it would be nice to confirm if it's true or just a rumor being repeated

[sly inlet]

Since chat seems to be on the topic of the sinking of yokuda, the fact that in older times Akaviri sailors raided the iliac bay suggests to me that 1. Yokuda was part of Akavir or 2. It’s sinking allowed Akaviri sailors to travel through the new water ways created by the sinking and ended up having a whole new world conquest shtick with west Tamriel

[pale walrus]

I'm gonna guess the latter. It raises interesting possibilities - namely, if we get a chance to go to the islands that are the remnants of Yokuda, we will not only encountered people who are more like the original Yokudans but also have the opportunity of running into Akaviri traders. There is such a wealth of opportunity for creativity here as well. I could imagine that some of the Yokudan islands are the tops of old mountain ranges or volcanoes. Think how epic they would look! Maybe we'll also see very unique flora and fauna on those islands.

[sly inlet]

If we do ever go to another continent I feel like Yokuda is probably the most likely option

So hopefully

imagine if it got partially colonized by them

tbh it would explain the japanese influences in the redguards

[nimble pond]

I'm just wondering if they're going open up sea travel/exploration in chunks like how they been doing Tamriel OR if they're just gonna do chunks of multiple realms. What with the time travel stuff that's been growing in Skyrim and ESO and the star maps they got on the scrolls themselves. More than just a past, present, future thing of the same province or parallel realities. Probably thousands of realms thru the scrolls.

[night violet]

Vivec: Sotha Sil’s amazing at concentrating. Once they start reading, the only way they’ll notice you is if you take their book away. Not even if you hit them or shake them!
Almalexia: That was them ignoring you.

Vivec: Hey, what are you reading?
Almalexia: This is my magic book where any ink spilled shows a scripture of the future, however it bears a curse making it broken, and as such in order to make any scripture appears, I have to do it myself.
Vivec: Impressive! I must have it for myself!
Sotha Sil: So it’s just a Notebook?
Almalexia: It’s just a Notebook.

[feral viper]

Or 3, they simply went around.

Even during the Age of Sail, European pirates sometimes made the treck around Africa to hit the Asian sea lanes.

[nimble pond]

There is no such logic amongst Nirn though, much less their gods 🤪

[night violet]

Vivec: Your smug self-assuredness is revolting.
Almalexia: I think we need to validate self confidence more, lest you end up angry at others for having even a sliver of it. I've done nothing wrong and I have a heart of gold.
Sotha Sil: I think this message is extremely valid, but also Almalexia has implied wanting to set off the Yellowstone supervolcano, so what's the truth?
Almalexia: I want to set it off.

Vivec, holding out a cookie for Almalexia: Look! This ones a heart, that’s how I feel about you!
Almalexia: Ugly crying
Vivec, holding out another cookie for Sotha Sil: This ones like Michigan, that’s how I feel about you!
Sotha Sil, throwing their hands in the air: What does that mean?!

Vivec: Christmas is cancelled.
Sotha Sil: You can't cancel a holiday.
Vivec: Keep it up, Sotha Sil, and you'll lose New Year's too.
Sotha Sil: What does that mean?
Vivec: Almalexia, take New Year's away from Sotha Sil.

We need a sitcom where it's the Living Tribunal sharing a house in the suburbs together. With Dagon as the neighbor calling the cops on them. They are always moving Nervars body to keep the cops from learning he's dead.

[nimble pond]

Our favorite crew of mpd, lol

https://media3.giphy.com/media/l0HlMU8DdZ2WX63fi/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9528cvgdkil7zsty3sszn0jxzsm0wprtprstzxw4q18&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[sly inlet]

true but it seems kinda inefficient lol

[feral viper]

Ya go where the good trading lanes are.

[sly inlet]

true I didn't think about that

[pale walrus]

Now this is interesting - take a look at the map at the top of this article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/gaming/the-elder-scrolls-6-how-big-hammerfell-is-compared-to-skyrim/ar-BB1lSZBf?ocid=weather-verthp-feeds

[wide garnet]

@pale walrus I got an idea for you through out DM together, check it out.

[pale walrus]

Look carefully at the positions of cities. If these maps are accurate, then the distance between Markarth and Dragonstar is rather small, and the distance between Elinhir and Falkreath is trivial. If we get a DLC in ES6 that takes us back to a portion of Skyrim (which I actually don't think is a good idea, but likely most of the fan base would angrily disagree with me), those are two logical 'points of entry.'

There are problems with both entry points, though. Physical problems.

[sly inlet]

it always felt weird to me that markarth was in the reach, the whole Forsworn quest line always made it feel like they came from further in the mountains but no this is basically it

[nimble pond]

Say what, the return of Alduin, only in his true form of evil incarnate now that he's been freed of the cage that was his physical form? Holy hell.. bring out the bards
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqzLg_q0_Wg&pp=ygUSQm93c2VyIHRoZW1lIGhlYXZ5

[pale walrus]

If an ES6 DLC entered skyrim from Dragonstar, the Skyrim side is very much Forsworn territory. It's south-southeast of Markarth, and if memory serves, it's pretty rugged terrain, rather different from the rest of the province. Also, Markarth is a Dwemer city - not Nordic. So it's not 'representative' of Skyrim. If, on the other hand, the DLC enters Skyrim from Elinhir to Falkreath, it's very well wooded, mountainous and pretty, and Falkreath itself is a small scale representation of a typical Nordic town. But how do you seal off that hold from the rest of Skyrim? There's no natural geographic barriers.

[sly inlet]

Yeah I get that they are close I was just saying that it never felt like I was in a super mountainous place when I was in the reach area of skyrim, it just felt like any other place so to me in my brain I thought that the forsworn must come from deeper in the reach north west of the reach area in skyrim

Also I don’t think I knew the area was called the reach at the time

[pale walrus]

Dude, no problem. Also, I think you've hit the nail on the head - the Reachmen are originally from the 'western Reach' area in High Rock, right up against Skyrim. The geography of the West Reach looks to me like it's probably quite alpine - high mountain valleys and lots of snow and ice. It makes one wonder why the Forsworn are so obsessed with holding onto the Skyrim side of the Reach.

[sly inlet]

If I remember correctly they say skyrim belongs to the nords and one of their old leaders from a long time ago is buried around there so it’s probably ancestral claims and nationalism

[nimble pond]

Reachmen doing reachmen things

[night violet]

A friend and myself have been working on setting up an elder scrolls roleplay set in an AU. It's Werecreature centric.

My character, Fasier at-Stros M'Kai, has begun to build a place called the House of Secudna. It's a safe haven for all children of Hircine.

Any advice on things I could include for membership, like rituals or festivals sacred to the Hunt Master?

[pale walrus]

Simple. As a safe haven, it's not going to be self-funding or relying on some sort of charitable foundation. Members/residents should have to pay to enter. So: have everyone who shows up at the front door looking for sanctuary be required to bring 10,000 septims or the equivalent. In return, they get a coffee cup consisting of a gold-plated mer or men skull.

[night violet]

Lol that's hilarious. Also very expensive lol.

"Hello there random child bit by a werewolf. I'll let you stay at my safe haven for people like us. Do you happen to have 10,000 septims on you?"

"No... I'm six."

"Well, good luck with the angry mob."

[feral viper]

Werebeasts are still ultimately linked to Hercine. So make their social status hunt based. The bigger and more dangerous the prey you've taken, the higher your status in the sanctuary.

Humanoids not allowed as prey, of course.

[nimble pond]

Anyone that can survive a timeshare meeting in oblivion for the weekend should be deemed worthy.

[night violet]

Very good ideas. Thank you!

[round coyote]

Hi

[feral viper]

Hello

Alright, so... This is sort of a tangent, but there is a visual storytelling tool that I think Bethesda should learn, and use, in its games.

Forced Perspective.

Due to a combination of engine limitations and gameplay design ethos, Bethesda can't really do massive set piece events. No large battles, no big disasters, nothing like that. Their general aversion to cutscene (a good decision IMO) further limits their narrative tools in that regard.

But using limited view-lines and forced perspective could allow them to fill the gap. Using small things to give the illusion of much larger things.

[pale walrus]

Sounds like something they may have used in FO4 (I'm thinking of when the Institute got nuked.)

[feral viper]

The initial nuke in 4, as well as the Institute destruction, may make some use of it, yeah.

It's an old cinema, and even theatre tool that has remarkable applications. Especially when you can carefully control perspectives.

For instance, having a specially designed scene wrapped around a window to make it appear like you're watching something far away, when it's really just miniature and close up, could allow for a lot more dramatic storytelling than Bethesda has been able to otherwise.

[sly inlet]

Two things I want to say about Mehrunes Dagon

I feel like his design doesn't really reflect his domain very well

and why don't people worship his pre daedra form like they do with Trinimac?

[obtuse magnet]

i would imagine because he was never known as that form to the current tamriel universe ? iirc anyway, whereas trinimac was there for a while but then he became a daedra

[sly inlet]

that's fair I just find it odd that the Mythic Dawn know about that form but for some reason don't worship that aspect of him

maybe it doesn't matter since his name never changed though

[sly inlet]

Just brealized that devs probably know that the community wants spell creation and more complex magic back given that it was almost put in eso in 2013 but was cut for time and is now reworked and is being released in the next chapter

[feral viper]

Skyrim actually had the most complex magic. That complexity simply came at the cost of some effects, and Spellcrafting, for... Well, probably several reasons.

[sly inlet]

How do you reckon that?

I never felt like destruction was as complex as past games

[feral viper]

Because Skyrim's magic was functionally composed of multiple variables and behaviours which caused different spells to actively function and express in different ways. It wasn't just 'Point in direction, magic ball go that way'.

The problem was, the vastly improved complexity over previous far simply didn't have enough polish to really show off HOW complex it was.

And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how complex your magic is, if all you do with it is a Fireball spell.

Oblivion's was far and above the worst. As with most things in Oblivion really.

On top of having the exact same mechanical variability and total lack of behaviours as Morrowind, it also made the actual casting an always-accessible quick-cast dynamic that could be used even while holding something.

This eliminated any tradeoffs or equipment dynamics and turned magic into a sidearm, meaning the only reason to ever NOT have a weapon out was just to handicap yourself.

[sly inlet]

Yeah I mean if they had a bunch of variables but never really let you play with them and stuff I feel like it's an issue, I think skyrim's biggest issue is that it has no limits

like every character can be a jack of all trades

ngl

I hope they add new damage types in VI, and don't tie them to magicka and stamina drain, that was one of the things I hated most about skyrim magic

[feral viper]

That's been a problem since Morrowind.

Skyrim was actually the first one since Morrowind where you DID have limits. At least initially.

255 Perks, but the level cap was 80. It was literally impossible to unlock everything, until Dragonborn introduced Prestigeing of Skills.

[sly inlet]

Yeah but that doesn't really matter when you can still use magic when you have no magic skills and it still be pretty effective

that's what I did

[feral viper]

Fair. Though, I utterly hate Spell Failure in general as a mechanic.

Still, there's always room to improve. And I think Skyrim was closer to the answer than either Morrowind or Oblivion.

It just needed some more... Cohesive guidance and polish.

[sly inlet]

All in all I just really want spellcrafting to return

and the ability to throw boulders and water at people

and wind

I wonder if one of the reasons they simplified magic in skyrim was because of shouts

[feral viper]

Probably one of the reasons, yes.

The desire to make it visually more interesting was probably another. Oblivion's magic was about as visually interesting as... Well... The rest of the game.

[nimble pond]

It's not so much the jack of trades itself being an issue, it's just when you have everything you can see that for each skill it almost felt like they were unfinished and as Teri often puts it, simply needing that finishing polish to it. And yk, now that I think about it, I think it woulda been cool if we had gotten some special jack of all trades perk for having every skill/perk unlocked. Same with when you 100 any skill as well. A mastery reward. So if you became a 100 master as say.. a conjuration mage, you got something to show for your work. The 100 perk requirements weren't that fulfilling, it needed to be something that encompasses the entire skill as a whole. Perhaps once you 100 a skill you unlock a charge bar for it which once you fill it up using that skill, you have a choice of highly powerful (OP) temporary perks/powers you can use associated with that skill and can use them everytime you refill the charge bar and/or once per day in-game.

[sly inlet]

wdym?

[eager remnant]

It is not simplified. Skyrim's magic system is more sophisticated than earlier games. And I believe it is an infinitely better system on which to base future games than the primitive systems used by Daggefall, Morrowind or Oblivion. Here are a few ways I think Skyrim's magic system is superior to either Morrowind or Oblivion (apologies to those regulars here who have read this before):

1. Secondary destruction effects. In Morrowind and Oblivion elemental destruction spells were interchangeable. They did one thing only: whittled down enemy health. Skyrim added secondary effects to the elemental destruction spells, giving us valuable additional reasons to choose one element over another. In Skyrim shock spells became very useful against mages, frost spells became very useful against fast-moving enemies, fire became very useful against enemies with high health pools.

2. New delivery options. Morrowind and Oblivion offered only touch (which never made much sense to me, as projectile spells were equally effective at close range) and projectile delivery options. Skyrim offered dual casting, concentration, cloak, and rune spells, each offering distinct advantages in certain situations. Dual casting was essentially a mini-spellmaking mechanic that could be altered on the fly in the heat of battle; runes introduced a sneaky option, cloaks were useful against melee enemies, channeled spells introduced damage-over-time (as well as area-of-effect), all for the first time in the series.

3. Perks. Oblivion gave us a just four perks per school. And to make matters even worse, every character who leveled a shcool was forced by the developers to take the same four perks whether that made any sense or not. And to make matters even worse than that the only thing magic perks accomplished was to unlock the next tier of spells. Skyrim's perks could be chosen by the player (as they should be in a roleplaying game), adding a bit of customization to each character. In addition, Skyrim's perks could grant extra effects such as paralysis, disintegration and stagger.

4. Sound. Skyrim introduced casting sound. This added a tactical element to combat. Sneaky mages could take a perk to eliminate the sound of casting, non-sneaky mages could use casting sound to draw enemies into a rune or a summons.

5. Experience formulas. Morrowind and Oblivion computed only the number of effective casts. This encouraged some players to meta-game by repeatedly casting low-level spells to level up fast. Skyrim uses a more sophisticated formula designed to discourage meta-gaming by incorporating additional factors. We gain more destruction experience by doing more damage, more Alteration experience by revealing more NPCs with a Detect Life spell, ect.

These are just a few examples of the ways in which Skyrim improved the magic experience. Could it be improved? Absolutely. Skyrim gave us a wonderful foundation (which modders have expanded upon) but much more could have been done. This is true of all games in the series and, frankly, it is true of most video games.

[sly inlet]

The main issue is really just the removal of spell crafting imo, it makes it feel limiting imo, also I would rather them implement some sort of type sytem rather than tie effects to damage types

[feral viper]

There's definitely ways to improve, yeah. I did some playing around with things some time ago, and probably have notes somewhere...

But that's for another day. It's 11:30 now, so I'm out.

[sly inlet]

Goodnight 😊

[nimble pond]

Kinda like a pokemon thing, so and so is strong against this magic type while weak against others. Like it wouldn't make much sense if ice magic did the same amount of damage to an ice wraith as a fire spell would, and I would reckon restoration mages or any enemy skilled in the art, would have a particular resistance to conjuration spells as another example.

As for spellcrafting, I would love to have it if it's as customizable as the character creation system itself is. Like if I want to mix burning damage with bubbles effect from water magic to give me floating fire bubbles at my foes, please allow me that privilege 😄 maybe I could mix fire + water magic to create lava spells. Etc. Or think of dual casting two spells from separate schools of magic like some sort of mad scientist of the magics. Can't even imagine what I'd do mixing conjuration with restoration. But you could really stand out as a mage with this instead of just being another lvl 100 illusionist.

[sly inlet]

Yes this is exactly what I want, a pokemon esque type mexhanic and botw esque interactions with it, like setting things on fire, type mixing would also be really interesting, another thing I kinda hope they do is get rid of destruction as a magical school because imo it really should be mixed throughout the other schools

[nimble pond]

Instead of destruction, it could be elemental focused. Because as it stands it really seems like the more "offensive" attacks school of magic whereas all schools have their own, or should, offensive and defensive spells, and perhaps some otherwise misc ones that aren't either of those two categories. So say you mix elemental school fire spell with conjuration magic and get green flames as opposed to orange. The crafting system is a bit like alchemy, except with spells/magic. They could have up to four effects for variety and you can pick if you all four or whichever effects you want. Like if you want green flames that burn enemy stamina (DOT) instead of health or you could simply have the green flames whilst keeping the normal effect of it burning health.

[sly inlet]

The up to four effects thing is kinda what the new eso scribing system is doing

[atomic jay]

I gotta ask

Do yall chose to kill or spare Nilsine ?

[eager remnant]

I like to roleplay, so it depends on the personality of the character I'm playing. Most of my Dark Brotherhood characters have no issue with killing (otherwise they wouldn't have joined the Dark Brotherhood) so these characters kill for the increased reward. But I have roleplayed a few Dark Brotherhood characters who have their own (somewhat twisted) moral code and refuse to do it.

[pale walrus]

Something just came to mind about HF.

Let's say this will indeed be the ES6 locale. There is tremendous variety of environments, history and cultures in that province. It's a very RICH province for story and lore development. As a bonus, the DLC can take us to places that are 'related' to the main province and its people - the many different islands nearby (I'm lumping in Balfiera with them), Yokuda and possibly Thras.

However, this presents problems for the successor title. After all, if we go to Elsweyr, Black Marsh, Valenwood, Summerset or HR afterwards, the provinces themselves offer a great deal for storytelling, but I don't see any real opportunities to leave those provinces to journey to nearby locations that are still associated with the main province. Am I overlooking something?

[tidal copper]

Guys seriously have to know is there any other way to increase mage guild other than finding lore books as seriously most tedious boring thing to do. I'm sure it'll work great with my build once I finally get it but running around avoiding everything to get this unlocked is just sapping all enjoyment of the game for me.

As seriously who thought this was a good idea, that your ability unlock isn't for doing quests or using magic abilities, but by reading lore books that in most cases have nothing to do with magic. Talk about taking you out of the realms of belief, but hey I guess they did that for skyrim also where you could complete the mage quests with scrolls, magic items and the first fire spell you got at the start of the game

[eager remnant]

This is a chat for the single-player games made by Bethesda Game Studios. Elder Scrolls Online was made by ZeniMax Online. You are welcome to post about ESO on ZeniMax Online's forums. You can find them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[tidal copper]

So I take that as a no there's no other way to progress the mage guild in ESO apart from getting lore books... And it says general not single player chat

[nimble pond]

Let's hope each province in future TES titles all provide that and not just Hammerfell because after that province, then what? Need to look at it more as any province can be equally fulfilling, can't just use a specific province as a crutch for that.
It's possible, but I think Balfiera is more High Rock than Hammerfell.

[pale walrus]

Yeah, I hope BGS can find a way, too. About Balfiera: you're right. It's just that it's going to be so close that I'm figuring we have a decent chance of hopping over there to see the place, maybe snoop around the tower and see if we can do something with its foundation stone that nobody else has figured out yet. Then again, maybe we won't. 😉

[nimble pond]

Probably the inclusion of other and/or new realms in lore. Sovangarde and Apocrypha and Soul Cairn were cool visits for Skyrim, but I suppose maps are gonna get bigger and more content-filled. Probably go to the moons in Elsweyr, yadda-yadda

[pale walrus]

OK, that makes sense. Going to different planes and also just getting tons of content stuffed into the province itself, with the scale changing to accomodate that smoothly and naturally. That works for me. But just as a thought exercise - are there places for those as-yet unexplored provinces that would serve as a 'home away from home'? For Summerset, it's easy - Artaeum. I bet it's a spectacularly beautiful island. But for Valenwood, Black Marsh, HR and Elsweyr, I can't think of anything.

[nimble pond]

Think of it like this, they included player-useable spaceships in Starfield base game. So sailing ships isn't an unreasonable guess. However, it's not like every province has it's own "Yokuda" to sail over too. Yes, there could be some more previously undiscovered islands in the other seas. So to answer question, yes, but I don't think sailing would be the sole method of transportation to such "homes away from homes" for each province if you get my drift? Like I don't think anyone is going to be sailing water ships up to the moons in Elsweyr? And while sailing could be the next cool gimmick, I think it would start to get a lil' stale afterwards if they only relied on that and islands for such purpose in following TES titles without adding new and other methods as well.

[eager remnant]

It also says: "Bethesda Game Studios." Bethesda Game Studios did not make Elder Scrolls Online. The proper place to ask this question is on the forum of the company who makes Elder Scrolls Online.

[pale walrus]

Wait - THE MOONS! Hadn't thought of that. OK, so both Elsweyr and Summerset have adjacent yet tied territories for expansions. That leaves Black Marsh and Valenwood.

[nimble pond]

And the rest of Morrowind.. 😭

[lusty geode]

I wonder, will TESVI be Xbox exclusive (like Starfield) or will it follow the same path as Skyrim (AKA also on PS)?

[obtuse magnet]

it will be on xbox and pc and a day-one release on gamepass last they talked about it, that goes for every game they release from now on until something changes ^^

[nimble pond]

But between you and me, I really wish the actual game environments were more fantasy and less boringly realistic 😕

[nimble pond]

@pale walrus if sail-able ships are a thing, what about ghost ships? How would one even sink such a vessel ..or worse, an entire fleet of em? From what I remember ghosts had a couple immunities. And would we be able to enchant our ships with magicks?

Btw did you know conjuration magic actually works in real life? If you cast the proper keystrokes, it will summon a mod

[pale walrus]

The Sload might be able to launch a fleet of ships manned by the undead.

[nimble pond]

Spooky

They actually have a complete ghost ship in ESO, pretty neat

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fj8tt3c619uo91.jpg

[feral viper]

Count Noctylus called. He wants his bit back

https://tenor.com/view/count-noctilus-total-war-warhammer-the-dreadfleet-vampire-coast-warhammer-fantasy-gif-25029192

Though, I'd rather is the Sload approach to the Undead is more... Constructive than just reanimated corpses.

[pale walrus]

Wait - how does he hang up that outfit in his closet? How does he prevent it from destroying the rest of his wardrobe? Terrible fashion choices.

[feral viper]

He's a 1000 year old Vampire.. probably just never takes it off.

[pale walrus]

Wow. Well, he's not coming to any of MY parties any time soon....

[nimble pond]

That's some 1000yr old body odor fr. Bruh be looking like Peanuts Pig-Pen.

[pale walrus]

LOL! You won't need garlic or sunlight or holy water to chase this guy off - just throw a bar of soap at him and watch him run away screaming