#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 14 of 1

hidden herald
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Physical vs Digital belongs in #tech-chat , it's not specific to The Elder Scrolls, nor any other BGS nor Zenimax Media title.

faint perch
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The assumption that ownership and physical media are linked is inherently flawed too.
⬆️ This. All of this.

pale walrus
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If any of you prefer that approach, well - more power to you. I have to confess that I actually prefer the way things were done in Skyrim - you crafted your PC the way you wanted and weren't forced into any kind of class choice.

forest surge
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Queen Khamira my Beloved

eager remnant
clever falcon
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Classes in TES are basically just starting stats, it doesn't matter

livid ingot
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The only "class" you should choose at the beginning of the game is whether you come from a poor or wealthy background.

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Otherwise I think you could implement a class-like system later in the game. This could be based on actions (you become a thief by stealing a lot, for example) or it could just be player choice (do a certain quest to become a recognized knight). Then its something you could change through the course of the game, like a job or career. Because that's what classes really are.

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Maybe they could benefit stats but I'd be primarily interested in them actually affecting how you interact with the world. Like becoming a thief triggers the Thieve's Guild to approach you about joining. Or being a knight gives you bonuses when talking with other nobility.

clever falcon
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Have you played Morrowind and oblivion

livid ingot
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That sort of thing

clever falcon
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Your staring class just determines what skills you get bonuses to out the gate

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Just train up other stuff. Forgot to take enchanting? Just pay a trainer to boost to 40

feral viper
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Oblivion takes that even further, making Classes more of a convoluted dumpster fire, but capping Primary skill contributions, forcing you to go off class in order to maximise bonuses while also penalizing you for going TOO far off class.

Because Oblivion's leveling system was basically the worst thing ever.

nimble pond
nimble pond
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Instead of just making a set number of locked classes. Keep doing what they did in skyrim and add to that! More options and expansiveness in the available choices for creating and growing your character. You end up having a much larger pool of classes to create when you can make your own instead of having to select from a limited pool of set ones.

That's the cool thing about how these games work. It's like a big sandbox with sub-sandboxes inside it where you create your own rpg. They give you the tools.

forest surge
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And Starfield with Background options

pale walrus
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I'd rather be able to move 'between' classes at will and also develop my PC skills independently of any class restrictions. In Skyrim, there was a set of three stones south of Riverwood which facilitated this, as well as the unrestricted freedom of the PC to join the Thieves Guild, Dark Brohood, Companions and Winterhold College. It was very liberating and really contributed to the fun I had with that game (I think I had four or 5 playthroughs.)

feral viper
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Like, the 'Professor' background gives you very specific bonuses. But there are literally hundreds of different fields of academic specialisation. And you have no way to fine tune the characters and their identities in any meaningful way.

This is offset by how generally generic the actual character progression was, with linear advancement routes towards specific activities, but the whole system being lackluster doesn't automatically make lackluster backgrounds better.

pale walrus
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In terms of PC specialization, it's not only what is or isn't available, but HOW you go about doing it. An example: I remember in Skyrim that there were quite a few blacksmiths. But if you wanted to learn how to make armor and weapons, they could help in only a general sense - expert, master or journeyman level. It immediately seemed like a wasted opportunity for making interesting quests. I think much more could be done here - maybe make certain blacksmiths specialists in certain kinds of armor and weapons (elven, ebony, dwemer and so forth.) Maybe you can only get them to train you once you've done certain things for them - elaborate questlines could be created from such a premise. The same goes for learning any of the Mage schools, alchemy, getting better at using certain types of weapons, negotiating/bargaining and so forth.

forest surge
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I’m still waiting for the day we start seeing smaller scale Elder Scrolls Spinoff for Consoles.

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I’m still waiting for my Dark Brotherhood Batman Arkham Like Game equivalent. XD

nimble pond
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Blackreach was cool, but what about 20000 leagues under tamrielic sea?

pale walrus
pale walrus
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Undersea stuff, maybe with dreugh or sload or from some other origin would be great fun too.

feral viper
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Blackreach was really just Tamriel's Underdark. And there's a lot that could be done with that idea, but... Well, I'm not sure how the Engine would really handle that currently.

feral viper
# pale walrus In terms of PC specialization, it's not only what is or isn't available, but HOW...

I think the training system in general is... Well, there. And that's about it.

First off, i am adamantly against the 'Master on the Mountaintop' trope. It's wushu nonsense that fundamentally misrepresents how people learn, why they learn, and more importantly, the TEACHERS themselves. Unless it's some jaded nihilist who has lost faith in a craft, GOOD teachers can be found actively teaching people, not forcing them to slog out to remote backwaters to grovel at the feet of some egotistical master. Let the trope die.

Second, the 'Pay money, get Skill' thing is... Well, terrible IMO. It's not engaging, it's not interesting, and it's just another clunky mechanic from the primitive ages of RPGs.

Training should be an ACTIVITY. Not just menu and a button click.

pale walrus
feral viper
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D&D underground biome

pale walrus
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In terms of handling something like an underwater city, maybe it would be easiest to throw it behind a loading screen somehow. Yes, it would be yet another city. And....they'll need to figure out the underwater breathing thing for all PCs. So.....I'm sure they'll figure it out.....(I may regret that statement 😉 )

pale walrus
# feral viper I think the training system in general is... Well, there. And that's about it. ...

Very much agree. I was thinking in terms of something like this: you're wandering around HF. You come across a small dwemer ruin and pick up a few items - a weapon, a helmet, and two metal bars. You heard that there was a smith in...gosh...Elinhir who specialized in dwemer technology and decide you want to learn about it. The smith tests your basic skills in smithing and decides to teach you something simple. Afterwards, the smith tells you that he/she could teach you more advanced techniques, but it involves tonal magic. Before teaching you more, the smith asks you to accompany his/her cousin on an expedition to retrieve more dwemer material using a device which has tonal magic properties and acts as a kind of compass/detector. You go with this cousin and several other people in a small caravan, replete with pack animals, supplies and such. Along the way, you are attacked by a group that is clearly more than just bandits. They steal the tonal device, and you are asked by the cousin to retrieve it while the caravan reorganizes and goes back to a nearby settlement to tend to their injured members. This leads you on a quest where you are tracking these raiders to various locations, learning about tonal magic and other things along the way. Much more could be done with this, but now the 'simple' task of learning how to forge and upgrade dwemer armor and weapons has become a storyline that could, with good writing, become involved and nuanced.

feral viper
# pale walrus Sorry - what's 'Underdark'?

In more detail the Underdark is a D&D location specific to the Forgotten Realms, though it has expanded into a generalised name for all expansive underground regions on other worlds in the setting.

It consists of vast interconnected caverns and tunnels, at varying depths, in which exist numerous creatures, biomes and even civilisations.

The Blackreach we see in Skyrim is reminiscent of an average cavern in the Middle Dark, the mid-range depth of the Underdark generally at a depth of 3-10 miles underground.

feral viper
# pale walrus Very much agree. I was thinking in terms of something like this: you're wanderin...

More specific to this, I think that is better suited for actual quests, rather than as a general element in the skills and training themselves. Similar to the quest in Skyrim where a smith wants Fire Salts to make their forge burn hotter.

I'm also generally hesitant to have a smith using tonal engineering, as that stuff is immensely esoteric to the point that next to no one alive understands it. You can still work metals made through it, but true reproduction seems to be unknown to the world anymore.

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I think something more generally, such as being able to purchase or learn blueprints from craftsmen, allowing you to craft particular styles of items.

Also, having particular Perks gated by particular activities or checks, such as having to go to an Ebony Smith to learn how to work Ebony before you can even purchase the Perk.

These sorts of generalised elements would allow you to have multiple approaches to obtaining the knowledge necessary, while keeping it narratively general enough that you wouldn't have to commit to a specific identity to do so.

proper totem
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Here is a question. What do you think of the new paid mods update?

feral viper
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Haven't even looked at it.

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As a general rule, I have no problem with the idea of paid mods. People are entirely entitled to requesting compensation for their work, both in terms of those using their work to do their own work, as well as the one actually doing the current work.

But I generally find the total quality of most mods to be uninspiring, and am pretty selective with the mods I use. So I don't pay a whole lot of attention to mod news or major trends.

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Just as I believe people should be free to request compensation for their work, I too am free to ignore their work entirely. And that's what I generally do.

proper totem
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Dude. Can you not speak without sounding wise and like a perfect angel? Lol

feral viper
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I am how I am.

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I either talk like I am back in uni, writing papers, or I swear like I did in the Navy. I don't really have a middle ground.

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And one of those will get me banned.

proper totem
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Why would one of those get you banned?

feral viper
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Because profanity is not allowed.

gloomy anchor
proper totem
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@gloomy anchor how do you get that square beside your name?

gloomy anchor
proper totem
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You work for bethesda 😮

gloomy anchor
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As a moderator yes

proper totem
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Ohh that’s awesome

feral viper
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So yeah. You either get the academic, or the sailor. And I walk a thin enough line most days as the academic..

eager remnant
proper totem
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Oh hello lol

feral viper
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Oh, one thing I will say before I once again forget it even exists...

If we're gonna be sailing boats. More Sea of Thieves, less Skull and Bones.

pale walrus
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I wonder if sailing in ES6 will include learning how to do so, with variable winds (up to gail force), along with waves for rolling and pitching the vessel, as well as dealing with obstacles, navigating and changing direction (which would include changing the sail trim.)

harsh plinth
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So I’m playing on the switch and in embershard mine there’s a unlockpickable chest
Dose anyone know anything about that
I checked the wiki and watched some videos on YouTube but it didn’t seem to be there in the videos and the wiki makes no mention of it.

nimble pond
wide garnet
pale walrus
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Never ran into a chest in Skyrim that I eventually couldn't lockpick.

nimble pond
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Imagine a chest that opened its jaws, swiped your loot and bounced off and away. Ppl would be so pissed

pale walrus
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LOL! A 'troll' chest.

nimble pond
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Then the guards see you running after a bouncing chest that stole your prized sweetroll, and they agree to put down the mead for the rest of the night

pale walrus
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😆

nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
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Dancing too, but not sure what to do with it yet

feral viper
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Tonal Magic seems to be more reliant on specific concept expressions, fundamental notes and phrases than simply being sound.

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It seems to be at least in part a combination of something like Enuncia or Name Magic, and something like the Song of the Ainur.

So a bard singing isn't going to do it. But someone speaking a special word linked to a particular thing at a fundamental level, at the right frequency, will.

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In this way, it may be linked to the Nymic structure of various spiritual beings.

pale walrus
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In that sense, Tonal magic could be foundational to all magic. After all - the Thu-um is all about sound, and when a mage is casting a spell from any school, it can be assumed that he is at least mumbling certain words and phrases. Maybe this could serve as the basis of not only exploring dwemer knowledge more deeply, but also for doing a lot more with magic in the next title. I like the idea of magic being more than just shooting more powerful lightning bolts, ice spikes and fireballs. Let all the schools of magic have a much deeper lore, with tonal magic serving as the core or foundation of all of them, linking them in some basic way. A very lengthy and involved story could come from that, involving Hermaeus Mora, Magnus, the Psijics, the Dragons, and who knows what else.

nimble pond
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I like that idea. Different schools of sound/music.

feral viper
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Alright, we're getting into some really deeper concept lore, for which there is little to no real information. I can ramble on about my own thoughts on the matter if people are curious, lore wise, buf that'll be a bit while I finish up at work and I'll keep it to Lore.

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In a functional sense, I think keeping Tonal Magics of any sort rather... Esoteric and off to the side, rather than developing them and integrating them into the standard magical system, is for the best.

Bring it in as a side-thing as needed; such as the Thu'um or Sword Singing, but don't make it a constant or standard feature. It's the quantum mechanics of the setting, and something that isn't a part of common interaction.

nimble pond
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I mean along with mages, warriors and thieves have their own schools in a sense.. loosely. Why not musicians? I think an expanse like that would be really beautiful to the game world. Just as magic is in everything, so to is music/sound. The forbidden type being what the Dwemer used/discovered, which could stay mysterious and unknown how it works.

gloomy anchor
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Remember when posting videos, they have to follow the server #rules as well.

feral viper
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I generally find that Music is better as a supplemental aspect of something else, rather than its own self contained paradigm. In many ways, it largely straddles the line of Warrior and Thief, being both an inspiring and manipulative tool rather than a... Well, 'Approach'.

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Bards, for instance, are typically a Mage class, accessing the same sorts of spells and abilities as most other magic professions, though with a general focus on subterfuge and social interaction.

nimble pond
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I do miss bardic skills/abilities in games. It would be interesting to see a more inventive and active approach to music in a fantasy game world. More potential than just a side gimmick. If TES doesn't pick it up, I'm sure someone else will.

nimble pond
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I wonder if it could be captured.. sounds like of birdsong, the murmuring of whales, high winds against the trees. Like the capturing of souls in soul gems. Perhaps music/sound could be used to power.

Could be like various materials too. In which you take the sounds and craft your own sounds/powers with it

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Maybe you could manipulate them too, use an enemies voice as a disguise. Troll NPCs to make them sound like goats or simply steal their voice so they can't alert their buddies

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On another note, do you think we'll see beautiful mirages in game? Whether on land or sea, but they end up being death traps created by other creatures to lure in prey?

nimble pond
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I'm not sure how sword-singing is gonna work in-game. But I hope it has more to do with the idea of manifesting one's own spirit into a weapon, be it a sword, bow, dagger, hammer, staff, whatever. If it's sword only, idk, I can't say I wanna be a sword user everytime and idk how that would complicate the main story if I didn't want to be a sword-user. With the thu'um it wasn't much an issue because all our characters had mouths. So in a similar case, it could be said all have spirit too. Not to mention, most probably won't play as a Redguard character every playthru. Like how you didn't have to play as a Nord to be able to use the Thu'um in Skyrim game.

But I think that's more what it really is, the manifestation of one's own spirit into a weapon. It's just known as "sword"-singing in particular because they favored the blade.

Of course, it's also possible that regardless of race of player character, you are connected to the ancients and the art of sword-singing, which your spirit always takes shape into a sword regardless. But I prefer the other idea of your shehai being the weapon form of your own choosing.

pale walrus
pale walrus
nimble pond
pale walrus
nimble pond
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Yea imagine you see a refreshing pool of water in the middle of nowhere, seemingly an oasis at first glance. You go to take a drink and suddenly find yourself falling into the hungry jaws of some large creature. But that's not to say all of them would be that big, there could smaller sized ones of this species too

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The creatures that freak me out in folklore are banshees. The screaming and eerie wailing, particularly in dark environments, hearing them and not yet seeing them 😳

nimble pond
# nimble pond Maybe you could manipulate them too, use an enemies voice as a disguise. Troll N...

Perhaps that is how it could be done. You manipulate the environment or life surrounding you to create the sound/power you want. I like to think of magic itself this way, you are manipulating it to form that fire in the palm of your hand and not have it melt your hand off. So with sound/music being all around us and in different forms depending on the environment or forms of life around you and the ones you know from your mind, let us to manipulate sound at our whim. Whether we weaponize it, use for healing and similar helpful abilities. Perhaps some more unique uses as well.

Imo, it would be much better utilized this way on it's own rather than just taking the lazy route of "oh, we'll just associate it with the magic of mages..." Yawn* boring. 😑 It has way more potential than that.

nimble pond
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But here's an idea for a side thing and it has to do with food. Chefs, of the more fanatic-nature? I like to think of the five senses here. Perhaps this could be built-upon for one of the various side-questlines. Learning about the five senses in association with cooking and with a little of specifically-designed chefs magic/spells.. messing with those senses in relation to the food (probably not suited for combat or at least have bizarre results if you try to do so). Not sure what all the missions would entail and for whom you may be cooking for.. but coming out of it you have a new sort of cooking magic/spells to mess with when you're doing cooking for yourself with your own food and perhaps some recognition among the land thru your efforts, as is usual with work in factions/guilds.
Perhaps even a sixth-sense of the mind/though you can adjust as well, yk hallucgenic stuff and the like. But it would be interesting if they introduced a new "sense" too that is unique to the TES world itself, if not at least only used in regards to food or drink. That could be creative.

Idk, goofy maybe, but I do like the idea of food and a food/cooking-based faction you can link up with. 😋
We could have our own Tamrielic Chef Ramsey 😯

pale walrus
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LOL! I like this cooking idea! It relates to alchemy (at least in my head) and could be great fun to explore. The more 'mini games' the better, I say, as long as they lead to productive outcomes and aren't too linear.

nimble pond
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Oh yea, I dig all the crafting trees they been doing with mechanics in their games. Would really like to see food/drink get involved with that treatment as well! Could add some extra shine to survival/hardcore mode in the future too!

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So, since we got dragon-riding in Skyrim and we've had rideable horses for a while.. Would it be fair to want a rideable Pegasus? I mean could do the same as they did in Skyrim and it is generally locked as being only accessible later in the game.. so you're not just op flying around opening up every spot of the map at the speed of light, lol

nimble pond
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If treasure-hunting is a thing, perhaps there could be a more unique group of pirates in another faction you can join. Or pirates would simply be the thieves guild, that works. But they're hunting for maps from a long-lost specific group of pirates. Ones that used unique treasure maps which are referred to as "black scrolls." Yes, similar to the way Elder scrolls themselves work, just not as powerful or exactly the same. Instead this group found their own way of making the ink invisible and/or only readable to those worthy or willing of sacrifice. Perhaps it would require a black soul to illuminate. Locations of treasure would be revealed to have been mapped out by the stars above. My guess is the ultimate reward after putting all the black scroll maps together would lead you to a special pirate ship to commandeer as your own, maybe a sort of ghost ship that is immune to all damage.

pale walrus
pale walrus
nimble pond
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It would prob be skooma instead of rum

nimble pond
nimble pond
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I would quite enjoy making captured Thalmor agents 'walk the plank' to the hungry sea beasts below

fleet reef
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Yargh

nimble pond
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Wouldn't hurt to have some smuggling too if we get a ship

fleet reef
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Having more options is never a bad thing

nimble pond
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Exactly. Fun is the main factor in video games and having variety is good bc ppl find different things to be fun or not to them

#

There could be like another realm or time band out at sea too, sort of a.. Bermuda triangle area with lots of weird stuff going on around there, disappearing, things appearing. Odd weather, etc.

nimble pond
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This could be an opening for some more appealing puzzles too. The maps could also have another part to solve in the form of crytopgram. Kinda like Olivier Levasseur's.

And a phantom island puzzle quest to solve. Sort of like Bermeja, but it's an Island off the coast of Tamriel that has been noted to on random moonlit nights appear and then dissappear when sailing towards it.

pale walrus
# nimble pond There could be like another realm or time band out at sea too, sort of a.. Berm...

This is a BRILLIANT idea. I could imagine taking my privateer out of Sentinel harbor and sailing towards Yokuda. As I neared the western islands of the shattered continent, I encounter some sort of anomalous area out on the sea, perhaps not too far from the sunken Orichalc Tower or where the Pankratosword was used to shatter the continent - an area where there are no waves rolling on the sea, shrouded in fog with an out of focus barrier around it. As I pass thru, I find myself in the Merethic era, with an intact Yokuda and Redguards embroiled in a war with the Left Handed Elves. I turn around and head back to Tamriel, only to discover a Hammerfell still filled with Orcs, Ayleids, Nedes and Rourken Dwemer. WOW, that would be neat!

pale walrus
nimble pond
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Probably more Artaeum rather than Yokuda. I don't think Yokuda has been disappearing than reappearing lately

nimble pond
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So maybe we could say a piece of Artaeum broke off from the main island long ago due to some wild experiment of the Psijic Order that went haywire or during a violent dispute between a rogue member of the order, leaving the piece of Arteum going rogue drifting across the sea, shifting around, appearing and disappearing much like the main island does. The Psijic Order can't even locate this rogue piece of their isle. But we end up solving the puzzle (could be affliated with past pirates discovering it and maps charting all the different locations it can pop up at and under what certain conditions and can only be seen thru a certain lens designed by the pirates. Would be the perfect place to hide their ultimate treasure that we find or as a secret meeting ground, an appearing/disappearing treasure isle) and finding this parcel of Arteum that harbors lost secrets of the Psijic Order to discover as well.

This magical piece of land could be the cause of the whole Bermuda triangle thing going on that I brought up. When you finally solve the mystery/puzzle/water-maze and enter it's core, which is these glowing magical waters surrounding the parcel piece of land of Artaeum.

nimble pond
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And yes, as you brought it up, depending on the radius of it and it's shifting locations across the sea.. it too could be affecting smaller portions of Yokuda or Hammerfell, maybe even High Rock, while it is there.
Sort of a.. 'mobile' Bermuda Triangle. Haha!

wide garnet
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I wouldn’t mind a time-travel adventure… as long as I can get something for my Thu’um.

wide garnet
nimble pond
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Look, if you're just sailing across the sea and everything suddenly turns cartoon-y, you've gotten the wrong kind of skooma my friend.. or probably should not have ate the entire bag of mushrooms you just picked on your last expedition 🤭

nimble pond
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If they do have some giant dwemer network underground within whatever province we get, maybe they could have a sorta dwemer-themed animunculi steam hover train for getting to various parts/chambers of the underground dwemer city.

pale walrus
nimble pond
nimble pond
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Magnetic hover rails? Could be a cool tech for them

pale walrus
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Now that you mention it, there has been a notorious paucity of mining equipment or evidence of mining of any sort in dwemer ruins. You'd think the dwemer would also have metal works in their cities, but I've never seen such.

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Also: did the dwemer never write anything down?

pale walrus
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There's three books I've found on uesp.net written by dwemer, but two of them are untranslated and the third is only partially translated. The snippet that was readable indicates that the dwemer had a very, VERY different way of looking at things - it's hard to understand.

rancid ember
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Do we know if Inon Zur will certainly compose TES VI ?

feral viper
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We know nothing about who will be involved in the music for TES6. It's purely up for speculations right now.

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Some names are more likely than others, of course.

feral viper
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Personally, my bet for the composer is Wagner.

dim reef
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Anybody know if you can get early access to elder scrolls castles on iOS?

feral viper
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I believe the early access run is no longer available, and we're waiting on the full release now.

pale walrus
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I bet it will be Hans Zimmer. I don't like his work, but it would 'make sense.'

dim reef
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Is the estimate release date really December of 2025?

feral viper
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All we know is it's supposed to be this year. Typically listings will use the last month of the year as filler, pending a more precise date.

dim reef
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Ahh I see. Thanks!

nimble pond
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Idk who it will be, but let the horn of summoning and doom drum play loud!

pale walrus
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Hopefully ES6 won't be based around the threat of an end to the world from a demon invasion from Oblivion....

nimble pond
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I doubt that highly. We already had TES4.

nimble pond
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But as for the Rourken, I'm not sure they are much different than the rest of the Dwemer clans. I think one of the structures is in ESO? It would be cool tho if they were more ancient Egyptian dwarves, with underground upside-down pyramids and hieroglyphics language.
But you seem highly-interested in the Rourken clan, so you might enjoy these theory reads:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/8qex18/connecting_trinimac_to_the_dwemer_conclusion/
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/7ne0zc/were_the_rourken_daedra_worshipers/
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/lb334u/do_we_really_know_what_happened_to_the_rourken/
Wild stuff.

It is kinda peculiar with Rourken possessing both Volendrung & Spellbreaker.

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feral viper
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Or, more likely, the Daedra took and repurposed Volendrung and Spellbreaker after the Dwemer disappeared. Including the Rourken.

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It seems unlikely that the Rourken were Daedra Worshippers, or theistic in any way really, given the atheistic wider Dwemer culture and the primary grievance which led to Rourken's self imposed exile.

feral viper
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Still, I think we're probably safe expecting that the Rourken were just... The same as ever other Dwemer.

Bethesda seems to be done with the idea of cultural diversity within wider ethnic groups.

hidden herald
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Not really, since there are clear culturally distinct groups that can be seen in ESO, though it could also be that there were more limitations with games in prior generations.
A lot of the groupings do not have names, though, but you can see there are differences between them.
Might have been more of a limitation of the time when a game released, or we only saw one province so only saw a portion of their cultures, not to mention how things change over centuries, both in merging and diverging cultures.

feral viper
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And ZOS has pretty consistently done a better job at worldbuilding than Bethesda has over the last 20 years, yes.

That's why I specified Bethesda.

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But who knows. Maybe I'll be surprised.

So long as it's not more sodding Cowboys. I swear to vehk if Starfield let me glass Akila I would do so without hesitation. If someone manages to cram more tacky cowboy nonsense into a TES somehow, I... Cannot be held responsible for my language.

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It's bad enough someone though that 'culture' should persist into the space age. If they think it has a place in a medieval fantasy setting....

forest surge
feral viper
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Stylistically, I think leaning heavier into Assyrian visual cues and downplaying the Art Deco style could be enough.

But again. Given the general visual styles of Bethesda's TES games since Morrowind (with the Dwemer being the only visually interesting inclusion in 20 years) I'm not holding my breath for anything eliciting a 'Wow' reaction.

forest surge
feral viper
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But, story and art are more... Taste driven than mechanics. So I think they present a far shakier platform for discussion, as they aren't something that can be as easily supported by more objective facts.

Some people like Cowboys. Others are correct. But arguing back and forth over it is... Far more difficult than say, X system presents 10 options while B system presents 18 options.

rancid ember
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfpMWhu1S4w&t=

New TES VI composer confirmed

YouTube
Dreyma - Composer
Lumina - Fantasy Music by Dreyma | Full Album 2022

Welcome to Lumina, my second album of symphonic music. It contains all tracks that have been released after the Chapter II album, plus some brand new compositions. All previously released tracks have been completely remastered. This is my gift to you this Christmas and New Year. Enjoy!

Bandcamp link: https://dreymamusic.bandcamp.com/album/lumin...

▶ Play video
pale walrus
pale walrus
pale walrus
rancid ember
pale walrus
#

That made my teeth hurt....

feral viper
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I am not overly fond of Oblivion's soundtrack. Definitely not my favourite of Soule's work.

In generally I find it tonally disconnected and unengaging from the setting it's supposed to be portraying, and just... Bland..

nimble pond
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Yea, as the lore is of now.. I can't yet see Dwemer worshipping any Daedra either. I understand the Rourken weren't the only ones to not like the Dunmer or who they worship and probably not the only group within a race to separate from it's kin. So cutting deals in regards to common enemies? Maybe. But I'll hold my breath.

pale walrus
#

I remember a story about the Dwemer deliberately pulling a very humiliating trick on Azura. Because of this and their general attitude regarding any of the divinities, I bet it's essentially a cultural taboo for Dwemer to worship anyone but themselves.

opaque ingot
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weird, oblivion's soundtrack is my favorite

livid ingot
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Yeah, same here

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Oblivion's soundtrack is probably the best of the series.

forest surge
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I feel even not being an Elder Scrolls Soundtrack it still has good music

pale walrus
shadow vault
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Any word on the Bethesda Oblivion remaster ?

hidden herald
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We do not discuss rumors here. That was never confirmed officially, and if there were plans, they can change over many years.

pale walrus
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I thought that was being done by the same independent crew that was doing Skywind. I think they call it 'Skyblivion.'

proper lagoon
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I have a eso tamriel unlimited ps4 disc, can I upgrade that to the ps5 version

eager remnant
proper lagoon
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oh ok thanks

livid ingot
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For people thinking on where the series can go in the future with TES:VI and beyond, I figure a meditation on one of TES's original inspirations is worth 1 hour and twenty-two minutes of your time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIp07F4iP_A

YouTube
dfortae - Game Reviews
Review of Darklands (DOS)

Review of MicroProse 1992 DOS release of Darklands.

I actually do a short single Let's Play of this game for my Patrons. As a "level 2" Patron, you get to see me play this game (and others) in more detail!

If you want to support my videos (and receive special rewards), I have a Patreon account: http://www.patreon.com/dfortae

▶ Play video
feral viper
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Oooh, I was running out of things to listen to while painting.

pale walrus
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Obviously this is pure speculation, but it's not a bad idea, and I don't think it's unreasonable. After all, we know that there was even some coding work done by 2018 (the teaser showed an actual landscape), so it's not a farfetched possibility.

nimble pond
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I try best not to think about it's release date, unless I am eager to put myself in a state of misery thinking about just how much longer it is going to be, lol 😄😪

feral viper
#

Nah. Any release date of Nov. 11 would be inherently disrespectful on its face, for one. Once was bad enough, repeating that mistake is a sign of general indifference on the part of Bethesda.

It's also a Wednesday, which is an abnormal release day in general. Middle of the week releases tend to under preform on release day due to work schedule decreasing playtime for consumers. Though it wouldn't be the first time they have done that.

It's also only 2 years out. Which considering the... Issues with Starfield, gives limited time to address major concerns that really need to be dealt with.

It's also from Game Rant, which... Well, gaming journalism being what it is, can be generally just ignored entirely.

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TES6 deserves proper time to breathe, so they can address core mechanical and gameplay issues that have built up over the last 20 years with BGS. Because if it releases in the same state as Starfield, it's going to be a serious blow to the studio's already wavering credibility.

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Of course, all things are possible hypothetically. We could see a TES6 release this very year, hypothetically.

Doesn't mean that's reasonable, likely, or even beneficial.

dusk iron
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I hope there wont be many loading screens

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I miss playing tes

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I platinumed Skyrim and did everything im like level 80 im lazy to start over again from level 1

feral viper
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I'm of mixed opinions on Loading Screens...

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In the one hand, i don't mind them for long distances. In fact, I find them quite an immersive abstraction for them.

But when literally walking through a door from the street into a building? They're infuriating.

feral viper
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Like, I can march across hundreds of kilometers of open tundra, because you decided to scale the world down to the size of a theme park... But I can't go from the street to the candy shop -a distance of literally 1 meter- without a loading screen?

Come on now. Time to sort out some priorities.

pale walrus
#

As regards loading screens, I can live with them if they are done 'well.' The Skyrim loading screens were tolerable for me. Going into a new crypt, ruin or other such location and encountering a loading screen was actually 'helpful' in a sense - I mentally put the outside world behind me and focused my attention on this new indoor area. It's not realistic, but I found that I could accomodate it logically from a gameplay perspective. It helped a lot that the loading screens were very short for me. There is one caveat - the screen has to be 'worth the wait.' In other words, whatever is on the other side of the loading screen has to be of sufficient size, depth and detail to be worth the delay. This means that any city or town entrance with a loading screen needs to have enough people, locations, interactions and activities to be convincing as a city or town. I don't think I'm asking too much in this.

feral viper
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There is but one game I have ever played where I would say they did loading screens 'well'. And that was Advent Rising.

But it was also a linear level design and not open world, so... Not really applicable

livid ingot
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Well loading screens are more prevalent that people realize. It's just that they're disguised. A good loading screen is one you don't recognize as a loading screen. Like the ladders and elevators in the FromSoftware games.

pale walrus
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sounds a little like HL as well

feral viper
#

I'm generally not one to look to Fromsoft games for... Well, anything. And in this case I think their example is similar to Advent Rising, in that it's not really applicable. Unless you're going for ridiculously gamey design and a generally artificial and unimmersive world.

Part of the general problem with Bethesda games is the way they have tended to their structure open world is a singular overworld, and then localised instances for every attached environment.

This both shrinks the scaling of the world in general, but also leads to a lot of artificial disconnects between areas for the sake of performance. Especially when compounded by the general clutter elements of their games.

And it works alright in Fallout, where your local region is really just a single city. But in TES we're covering entire countries worth of territory. And it's very quickly becoming... Well, not great.

#

The alternative is regional maps which represent a particular area, and loading screens BETWEEN them, but. Well, that's basically what we got with Starfield, and it's... Even more jarring and loading screen heavy. Though I suspect that has less to do with the option as a whole, and more to do with the lack of strategic use.

forest surge
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Just a lot happened and your sifting through the remains of everything

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The Lore is not so in your face and it’s just something you have to discover and piece together

dim reef
feral viper
dim reef
feral viper
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And some day, I will get the chance to pry the Elder God off the wheel of fate like the soul-sucking parasite it is!

dim reef
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"In a October 2015 interview, Crystal Dynamics' senior designer, Michael Brinker, replied that there was "a 50/50 chance" of a sixth Legacy of Kain single player game releasing during the eighth generation of video game consoles"

"n May 2022, Embracer Group acquired the Legacy of Kain intellectual property alongside other assets of Square Enix Europe, including the development studio Crystal Dynamics for $300 million.[129] Embracer Group expressed interest in sequels, remakes and remasters of the Legacy of Kain franchise among others.[130] That November, Embracer, after sending a survey in October to gauge fan interest in the IP, said during an earnings call that they received more than 100,000 responses and hear the fans "loud and clear".[131][132]"

They are just enticing the fans, like matadors lol

dim reef
feral viper
#

The irony of Embracer's statement in light of the ending line of the last game though...

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"The first, bitter taste of that terrible illusion; Hope"

spare anchor
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How is this Elder Scrolls related?

feral viper
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Seriously though, you want a phenomenally written game, just play the LoK story videos in the background some time. Still one of the best written games and settings.

But that's going off topic. The only really relevant event of them to TES is just how much inspiration I'd like to see them take from Vampires...

dim reef
feral viper
#

But really, TES could take useful inspiration from a lot of settings vampires.

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A general problem with TES as a whole is the approach of 'being included is more important than being good'

forest surge
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Ngl but the Victorian Era looking architecture of Bloodborne makes me wish we had more of that in Elder Scrolls.

feral viper
#

cough Bretons cough

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But noooo. We gotta stick with the bland, one dimensional knight trope. Because diversity within an idea is too big brain for the small brain consumer apparently.

forest surge
feral viper
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Even stone burns if you try hard enough

forest surge
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And Fans as it is get rather finicky if you try to change something, remember they changed Orc and Redguard Motif’s after release and fans got all upset at them

forest surge
feral viper
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You do that regardless.

Ultimately, if the end result is better, those voices are quickly drowned out

forest surge
feral viper
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Though, 'Better' is it's self subjective.

forest surge
feral viper
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Those are always... Problematic when a game tries them. But yeah.

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You know, unless you have a dumpster fire like FF14 was on release, and you need to basically reinvent the game just to make it playable.

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In which case... They actually nailed it.

pale walrus
feral viper
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Oh, absolutely. Don't be like me, squeaking by on barely passing grades and just managing to eke out an Anthropology degree in doing nothing with, and then devoting far too much brain power to trying to fix a series and studio i have a hyper focused love-hate relationship with.

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Do as I say, not as I do.

But back in point...

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Without beating a dead horse too much, I still stand by the notion that deeper, more thoughtful worldbuilding is better than simply leaning in recognisable tropes. We've seen enough of that with

Cyrodiil and Skyrim, with the cultures and peoples there being one note memes rather than interesting and engaging societies.

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HOW you develop those, and the thresholds for 'enough' you set, tend to be a little more complicated, of course. But it's always better to overdo the iceberg and then have to shave it back, than it is to have it too small from the start.

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Personally, I like setting clear goals and thresholds to be met, that give you established targets. You can always do MORE, but at least meeting those targets allows you to establish a general level of quality that lends an air of consistency.

forest surge
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It’s why I’m hoping the Gold Road Chapter does something for Colovians now that we have returned to Multiyear

feral viper
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It's a shame too, because the Bretons could so easily be the microcosm for Medieval Europe, while the rest of Tamriel could draw inspirations from elsewhere.

forest surge
feral viper
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Instead, we have... Bretons-Medieval Europe. Imperials-Medieval Europe. Nords-Medieval Europe.

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At this point, I fully expect BGSs take on Hammerfell to just be the Crusades

forest surge
forest surge
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But Stormhaven is France

feral viper
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Per the Legacy of Kain thing. I am nothing but patient

forest surge
feral viper
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Absolutely.

forest surge
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So all you would really need to do is change the rest

feral viper
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And Highrock has enough major kingdoms to really reflect the major cultural identities of the Medieval period, which would serve to really emphasise the sort of Breton independent pride that they're supposed to be known for.

forest surge
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Rivenspire I think can be Britain Victorian Gothic

feral viper
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Absolutely. Play into some of that Bram Stoker influence

forest surge
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Rivenspire sounds like it could be British

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Glenumbra is something I don’t know what it could be

feral viper
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Then you can shift Daggerfall into something if a more of a cosmopolitan trade kingdom based off various Italian states.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Cyrodiil is... Well, a mess really.

steep relic
forest surge
steep relic
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hi

feral viper
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It's basically all generic-Medieval Fantasy in Oblivion, with no clear influences from anything.

Then to overcompensate, they doubled down hard on the Roman influences it had in Morrowind. Though even back then it was a weird mix of different periods and temperaments.

It's Slavic influences have only ever really appeared in PGE1, and a few names, but not actually in game.

forest surge
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Oblivion’s main issue was losing it’s identity

feral viper
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I think it would be better suited just accepting the Classical influences of it, running from the Alessia Hoplites through to the Roman Empire and pushing it into more byzantine influences as time goes on.

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Level Cyrodiil as the 'Classical' location. Highrock can become the focal point of the Medieval. And then Skyrim is the 'Dark Ages' (which weren't actually a thing but the Medieval period does tend to be divided into two distinct phases based on effectively the establishment of French rule over England in 1066)

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Between the 3 of them, you can basically explore influences of the last 3000 years of European civilisation.

forest surge
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Anyway Glenumbra, France is Stormhaven, Britian is Rivenspire, Glenumbra is Spain maybe? Jehanna Area would be Ireland.

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Although Breton Names would no longer have to be merely french if this revamp happened

feral viper
#

For the Redguard and Khajiit, you can then weave in various African, Indian Middle Eastern influences. With a touch of Japanese for the Redguard, of course.

Altmer can be drawn from East Asian, renaissance Europe, maybe some high-fuedalism...

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Names are fine. Names don't have to strictly match their real-world influences, IMO.

#

Though really, name lists are probably in need of a significant expansion anyway

forest surge
feral viper
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Maybe. I'm about as patriotic as a rock, at the best of times, and a French sounding name on a Slavic looking giant wouldn't phase me in the slightest.

But some people are more.... Directly associative of things like that than I am.

forest surge
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You could easily explain that the Bretons developed off of the French Style and later expanded to the revamped zones to differentiate themselves from the neighboring kingdoms, but the French Names remained intact

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They wished to form there own identity’s while keeping a sense of familiarity in the names

feral viper
#

Not that I'd even be able to tell the difference between a Frenchman and a slav anyway...

But yeah, there's plenty of ways to explore the ideas. You could even have a few characters who have actively CHANGED their names to new ones, in order to differentiate themselves from their neighbours and reinforce their identity.

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You could make the divergence a relatively new thing, something that's 'in vogue' recently amongst the nobility in Highrock.

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Sorta play off real world social trends, such as the one that led to the development of the modern British accent.

dim reef
forest surge
dim reef
feral viper
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If it's history or anthropology related. Hit me up.

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Always willing to help someone whose honest about trying to learn and do better.

dim reef
feral viper
feral viper
dim reef
forest surge
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I’m still hoping Jehanna whenever that comes out is more Ireland but I think there may be a fear atm of being anything but french, Highland Bretons are still such a mystery and I hope it’s different

feral viper
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As a technicality, my degree also required me to do a lot of bio-anth stuff, so I'm pretty decent at biology ... But I swear, if I have to do another punnett square...

forest surge
feral viper
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Yeah

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But like... Conceptually, you model each major kingdom after some distinct Medieval European state. You then use the rural lines between them to blend it all together using an Arthurian Questing mythos and late Celtic fae ideas.

So while the cities feel distinct, as if they're all trying to one up eachother and stand out, the rural folk all feel calm and familiar.

forest surge
feral viper
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Oh, yeah. I'm... Focusing more on ideas for the future, for worldbuilding going forward, rather than trying to rewrite the present.

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No matter what happens in the future, Daggerfall will still be the same as it's always been. Whether or not Highrock looks like that in 10 years time.

forest surge
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Cause imagine putting in Ireland for Jehanna and the rest of High Rock is France and players are like… ?????

feral viper
#

Listen 'ere laddie, just take'a tot'a dis whiskey and it'll brighten'ya rite oop.

forest surge
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Also there was votes among fans on if they wanted to see High Rock redone, and there was a huge majority of votes

feral viper
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Probably a bit too late in the Medieval period for the appropriate Irish influences there.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Yeah.

Though, really, I'd vote for Valenwood there... May not like Highrock, but I don't HATE it...

dim reef
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punnett squares get tedious very quick

forest surge
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Like I said, Fans know base game was a different thing and they want the current love and attention dlc gets.

feral viper
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Highrock just needs some more... Oomph. Some pizazz. Some razzmatazz.

Valenwood needs to go back to concept.

forest surge
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Lore wasn’t the biggest focus during development, architecture had more focus yes but they still were limited by the time they had, in general it’s why revamps are wanted.

feral viper
#

But anyway, back to a more structured point, a Province and it's dominant culture should, IMO, have at least 3 major subdivisions. The more the merrier, but 3 gives you a decent foundation to create distinct interactions and styles from.

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To use the Dunmer as an example, the 3 Great Houses in TES3. Each one feels different, feels distinct, and almost serves as it's own culture even with the through line between them.

This was then expanded to a fourth, the Ashlandsrs, in the base game, with 2 additional Houses being mentioned. In this case, the real details of Indoril and Dres didn't HAVE to be explore, because Redoran, Hlaalu and Telvanni already felt distinct enough. Their distinctions allowed for the illusion of greater depth just by mentioning 2 more.

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If you have a game set on just the peninsula of Highrock, and you make Daggerfall, Camlorn, Wayrest and Alcaire feel distinct, you don't even need to actually show Shornhelm, Evermor or Jehanna. You've done enough work already that just MENTIONING them creates the illusion of 7 distinct and unique kingdoms when you've only really had to make 4.

forest surge
#

Alcaire is in Stormhaven, it was another Kingdom correct?

feral viper
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Yes. In ESO it's unclear what it's exact status is, though by the time of Tiber it's considered a kingdom.

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It's really just a castle in ESO.

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Which, if we're looking at early medieval Celtic and British influences, is really all you needed to declare yourself a kingdom. Most isles-kingdoms were little more than Hillforts and a few surrounding villiages.

forest surge
feral viper
#

However, if you do something like in Oblivion or Skyrim, where the Counties and Holds AREN'T distinct. Where the only difference between them is the look of their buildings, then it doesn't matter if you name a hundred other Counties/Holds, the world isn't going to feel any more diverse.

feral viper
#

None of them in Highrock really stood out as great, but at the same time the also didn't infuriate me. So they didn't really stick in my memory, like Valenwood or Blackmarsh.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Fair. Admittedly, Alcaire has also... Moved, it seems.

forest surge
feral viper
#

With the Warp in the West, it apparently became part of Wayrest.

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But in ESO, it's further inland. And at least one source calls it an Island Kingdom, so... You know.

Just like it's most famous son, it's history and location are the stuff of misinformation and propaganda.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Yeah. Which, would probably fall more under Duchies, but TES plays fast and loose with feudal organisation at the best of times.

glares at Cyrodiil's counties

forest surge
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Man I can’t wait to finally see Sutch

feral viper
#

I hope it's not Sutch a disappointment.

forest surge
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Ha! But apparently it’s a Marketplace like Location

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From the First Era to the end of the Third Era, Sutch was a notable cultural hub noted for its artists, artisans, and performers that attracted visitors seeking artistic and philosophical pursuits.

feral viper
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That could be interesting.

wide garnet
forest surge
feral viper
#

Indeed.

pale walrus
#

Very curious to see what ESO does with both Sutch and Jehanna. I think it would be great if they put an extra effort into Sutch, after the colossal disappointment of ES4. It should strongly evince Colovian culture. And Jehanna? There needs to be Nordic influences. Also: I'm betting Jehanna will be somewhat 'embattled' - after all, the Falmer are just east of them.

forest surge
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Jehanna will likely have Nordic Influences but will be under control of Bretons because I don’t see Western Skyrim picking a fight with the Daggerfall Covenant.

feral viper
#

Give me some Carolus Rex Sweden there, me b'y

forest surge
#

High King Svargrim was already paranoid about Eastern Skyrim and the Pact coming after them

pale walrus
slow garnet
# forest surge Jehanna will likely have Nordic Influences but will be under control of Bretons ...

Jehanna may however have been damaged or assaulted by Wrothgarian Orcs in the pre-Covenant years before Emeric made his alliance with Kurog. It is, after all, right at the north end of Wrothgar... its docks are shown there but are unmanned except by ogres and wildlife, you might as well assume that Jehanna itself is just a bit further north and east along the coast and off the map, and is a Breton enclave cut off from the rest of High Rock by a resurgent Wrothgar.

(And possibly, in the long term, suggest that one of Emeric's motives to ally with the Wrothgarian Orcs - aside from wanting their assistance to put down Ranser's rebellion in Shornhelm, a canonical reason - and include the Orcs in his Covenant, was to reconnect with Jehanna and reopen a land route to the place?)

forest surge
slow garnet
#

Exactly. Except, that's where Wrothgar also is, in the ESO map - north of western Bangkorai and eastern Stormhaven. But Wrothgar doesn't quite cover all the way over to Western Skyrim, so there is that gap.

And yes, Jehanna Docks is a marked "place of interest" at the north end of Wrothgar, but there's nothing to do there and it's unpopulated, and if the city exists in the Second Age, it's slightly off the Wrothgar map at its northeastern corner.

pale walrus
#

It seems bizarre that the Jehanna docks are unused. You'd think the city would organize itself to take the docks back - after all, that would be a great source of revenue from trade and import duties.

forest surge
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Honestly though they should name it back to Horker Docks, since it makes no sense for Jehanna Docks to be there specifically

forest surge
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Keep in mind Jehanna is stated to be East of Farrun and West of Solitude, so the docks is not where Jehanna would be.

feral viper
#

Alright. Selfishly veering back to mechanical topics, because I feel bad constantly complaining about Bethesda's poor worldbuilding and rejustifying the difficulty in explicit rules and goals of writing in the face of individual tastes...

Armour. I bring this up again due to seeing something on Reddit, and it reminding me of just how terrible the Light-Medium-Heavy dynamic is in practice.

#

What it's attempting to address is different degrees of restriction caused by progressively heavier protection. Which is conceptually a good abstraction, but the functional execution of that concept through this sort of system is highly flawed.

For one, armour is specifically designed to be as mobile as possible. Articulation, contact points, and even self-supporting structures have always been crucial in maximising mobility and protection.

This has led to, historically, 'Heavier' armours such as Field Plate actually being LESS restrictive than their 'lighter' counterparts. Gothic, Milanese and Greenwich plate armours, far and above the most complete armours ever made, actually impaired your movement LESS than Maille haurberks and scale armours of previous eras, and other regions.

Similarly, weight has pretty consistently been a constant across armours, with a full suit of ANY type of armour weighing between 50 and 70lbs. This is regardless of whether it's metal, leather, or even wood and bone. And it actually extends to modern kit as well, with most combat gear (including webbing, body armour, and ammunition) weighing between 50 and 70lbs.

The reason behind this is, they weight range is the most a fit combatant can reasonably carry and move in without seriously compromising their mobility and endurance. So it remains the primary target weight.

#

This is combined with the fact that, weight on your back actually slows you MORE than weight distributed around your body. 50lbs in a rucksack is far harder to accomodate than 50lbs of armour, regardless of the TYPE of Armour (again, with 'heavier' armours like Plate actually being more efficient).

#

So, not only does the Light-Medium-Heavy dynamic fail to represent the abstraction of how armour restricts you (especially given the Glass and Ebony are both Plate Armours anyway) it also fails to represent the abstraction of how WEIGHT restricts you.

It becomes a self perpetuating mechanic that doesn't actually do what it's intended to do, and actively limits your gameplay interactions and behaviours.

livid ingot
#

You're totally correct, of course. But I think the next move Bethesda is going to make is just to remove weight and encumbrance entirely

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I think a lot of people only find annoyance at this mechanic, which was especially glaring in Starfield

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With Bethesda's track record, I actually think it's a little bizarre the mechanic has stayed around as long as it has, when similar stuff like durability has long been purged

#

As for the armor classes themselves, I think they will need to go along with this change.

#

Because if weight is removed, there is basically no reason to consider anything other than armor rating

#

(Maybe the reason weight has stuck around for so long)

#

I think perhaps Bethesda might start tying armor to archtypes more strongly on the perk tree

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As in, wearing certain armors gives you perks relevant to that archtype.

feral viper
#

While certainly a possibility given... Trends, with Bethesda games, I think removing weight and encumbrance would also be a negative.

The issue with them have more to do with the lack of interaction with the concept, than the concept it's self. There's too few interesting and engaging decisions with it to make it enjoyable and thought provoking, resulting in it just feeling like a clunky gameplay tax.

#

It's one of those elements where KIS(S) has morphed into KIL(S)

dim reef
#

Tanzelwil ghosts still hostile after completing quest?

#

Auridon

hidden herald
#

You will not be able to obtain help with an ESO quest here. This discord is specifically for BGS titles, you need to work with ZOS if there is a quest bug, or you're missing/missed a side quest. There is an in-game help feature.

dim reef
#

Thanks

feral viper
#

I think the reason Carry Weight has persisted so long, despite its glaring problems, is... Games kinda need inventory management systems. And while none of them are particularly good, Carry Weight is one of the least-bad of them.

pale walrus
feral viper
#

Basically, yes. In terms of armour.

The only real exception is Cloth, as many cloth armours were light weight, mobile, and far less protective than anything else regardless of how much they covered. But they also served as an under layer for almost all other armours, sooo...

pale walrus
# feral viper Basically, yes. In terms of armour. The only real exception is Cloth, as many ...

This could get really interesting. If BGS adopted this approach, then they'd have to come up with different justifications/advantages for all armors, and especially for the higher end stuff - dwemer, orcish, glass, ebony and such. Also, they may have to bring in other 'qualities' to assess the usefulness of armor types. As an example - if you're trying to quietly sneak around, it should favor the use of non-metallic armors like leather or linen. Regardless - BGS would have to define armor choices in a much more creative and interesting way. I hope they actually do something like this.

feral viper
#

There's a lot that could be done with it. Specifically relating to armour and leaving Weight and Encumbrance on the side for now...

First off, visual styles become just that's visual styles. Us of more modern model and texturing systems could allow you to apply material textures into any number of different models, allowing you to mix and match as you wanted without too much difficulty. Imperial Leather, Elven Ebony, Orcish Glass, etc.

The runoff of this is that you can emphasise the qualities and behaviours of particular materials, making for far more variability and options than ever before and minimising direct linear progression.

Second, a clearer focus on specific TYPES of armour rather than nebulous weight categories means clearer roles for each type. This is a fantasy setting, after all. Going from Leather to Maille to Scale to Plate could offer a spectrum of protection, with one end being Magic, the other Physical. Want to be all but impervious to physical damage? Get yourself a suit of plate armour. But you better watch out for magic users.

The runoff of this is that, knowing what sort of armour is good against what, gives the player strategic play in encounters. It means you have a foundation for more interesting engagements than just 'Smack it until it stops moving'.

dim reef
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Can y’all try to sell me on playing this on pc instead of console. I’m having to start my account(s) over again and can’t help but think if I have to do it over again I might as well upgrade to pc and be done with console.

feral viper
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More mods than you could ever dream of.

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Also, Console Commands.

dim reef
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I never considered mods for ESO. What kind of console commands?

feral viper
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Oooh, ESO. Nah, sorry, I was talking mainline games in general.

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I got nothing for ESO

dim reef
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Still, good points.

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I know navigating inventory is easier.

feral viper
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I honestly haven't played ESO on console, so I don't know of any of the differences.

dense marten
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I hope in ES6 we will still get to become vampires or werewolves but that there is more to these choices

warped hinge
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Where's the giveaway thing? I can't find it. I saw Bethesda's post about it on Facebook. 🤔

eager remnant
slow garnet
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Answered Naz's ESO quest question in a PM.

dim reef
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Thanks. I found that the zone quest will turn the area white, as if completed; however, there is still a regular quest in the area that needs to be completed to calm the ghosts.

pale walrus
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I'm wondering how everyone feels about ES DLCs in general. I have no beef with the Morrowind ones. Generally, I was dissatisfied with the Oblivion ones (with Shivering Isles being the exception.) I was both pleased and impressed with all the Skyrim ones, despite the fact that I find vampires and lycanthropes to be uninteresting (recall that the DragonBorn DLC with Solstheim did more with Lycanthropism.)

clever falcon
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Morrowind is a fantastic game with terrible expansions, oblivion is a terrible game with very very solid expansions. Skyrim is a middling game with pretty okay expansions.

eager remnant
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Morrowind. I wasn't fond of Tribunal, in part because it initiated Bethesda's "cities-in-their-own-worldspace" approach, which I dislike. I did like Bloodmoon, however. It is probably my favorite Elder Scrolls DLC so far. Of the eight free DLC, Siege of Firemoth is the one I enjoy most.

Oblivion. I have no use for the first seven Oblivion DLC (Horse Armor to Spell Tomes) and the last (Fighter's Stronghold). Knights of the Nine I enjoyed, but rarely play it. Shivering Isles is, controversially, my least favorite expansion-sized Elder Scrolls DLC.

Skyrim. I enjoy all three of Skyrim's pre-Creation Club DLC. Dawnguard persuaded me to play as a vampire for the first time in my Elder Scrolls career. I discovered I enjoyed the playstyle and have gone back to play vampires in the earlier games as well. My only criticism of Dragonborn is that, unlike Bloodmoon, it placed Solstheim in its own world space (as you can tell, that is one of my pet peeves).

pale walrus
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This leads to another question: who finds the Creation Club creates a sufficient amount of quality content to keep you playing a given title? I've never used anything from the Creation Club because I'm worried what effects the code will have on my Skyrim installation specifically and my desktop in general.

eager remnant
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Roleplaying and community-made mods (including my own) are what keep me playing. I like nearly all of the Creation Club offerings, however. And some of the new work coming out through the Verified Creators program looks particularly interesting to me.

pale walrus
nimble pond
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I wouldn't mind unique tes-themed competitive sports in tesvi. That includes the kind you or your opponents die in 😆

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I'm not asking for this to be put in the game, I don't really know how that would work. This is just for fun talk. But what if you could be your own divine or create them, like you create your pc.

eager remnant
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If you mean crashing to desktop, not really. But I'm very selective about the mods I use. I go through a pretty rigorous testing process which each mod I plan to use. I tear apart and rebuild my mod lists with each new character I play, using only those mods needed to roleplay that particular character. Problems do occasionally occur, but not as many or as severe as some people seem to experience.

nimble pond
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Cooking should have some sort of failure involved in it. Kinda like how potion-making can be rough starting out.

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Like you can burn it like a charcoaled pizza

nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
# pale walrus This leads to another question: who finds the Creation Club creates a sufficient...

I don't understand how it would affect your desktop (unless you meant messing with the settings for your GPU or overclocking your CPU without really understanding what you are doing). Never heard of that.. but yea some can crash the game or corrupt a save. But I would say just unistall the mod if it is giving you crashes/problems. If you run into problems while playing with mods, try enabling/disabling them one-by-one so you'll know which ones are giving your game a hard time. Usually it's compatibility issues with other mods.
I recommend keeping backup copies of saves that are important to you in a separate folder/location in-case any of them do get corrupted, you can simply make another copy of your save back to your game folder.

pale walrus
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OK, good feedback from both of you. Thanks, guys. 🙂

nimble pond
# pale walrus I'm wondering how everyone feels about ES DLCs in general. I have no beef with t...

I'm not big on the smaller ones, like Oblivion's plugin DLCs (horse armor, etc.). Modders are gonna make most of that stuff anyway. I'd rather they focus on bigger expansions like new territory and questlines to add to the overall base game (I like to think of em as bonus chapters). Healthfire DLC I felt like they should have just included that with Dawnguard DLC instead of it's own standalone thing..

nimble pond
dense marten
feral viper
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As far as DLCs go.. in general, I'm ok with them.

I thi k Morrowind's were definitely the strongest, though while I'm more forgiving of Tribunal's closed cells than Pseron may be (there's sorta no way around it given the location) I'm not as forgiving about the lessons taken from it. Blood moon was fantastic, however.

Similarly Knights of the Nine was good enough, despite my personal contempt for everything Tiber Septim (may he be cut off like a tumor and be forgotten) and how tediously adoring the questline is regarding him. Shivering Isles was initially interesting, though I've grown to hate it more and more as time goes on, for it's tacky Sheogorath and terrible take on mental illnesses.

Skyrim's DLCs were generally solid. Hearthfires is a constant activity in my games, Dawnguard was probably my favourite DLC in the franchise, and Dragonborn was a pleasant nostalgia trip while maintaining it's own identity.

The smaller DLCs are largely just shovelware IMO. I could take them or leave them and it wouldn't impact me or my games in the slightest.

feral viper
# nimble pond They have a lot of different types of those sort of "diseases" throughout Tamrie...

I think you'd quickly get into some instability issues, not to mention the interface concerns such a system would cause.

Not that I'm against Diseases being more important, but... Well, MAKING your own runs into a lot of the same roadblocks as Spellcrafting, which it's self requires some serious thought if they ever bring it back.

Somewhat relevantly, Starfield's afflictions are a positive addition, even if they suffer from Bethesda's usual "Proof of Concept" problem. Refinement of that system (maybe within a more variable Difficulty model wink * wink* ) could allow for a lot of play with diseases.

As far as Vampirism and Lycanthropy go though... I'm personally on the side of: if you aren't going to put the work into making them interesting, don't include them. Werewolves in the base game, and Vampire Lords, put at least the right foot forward... But basic Vampires in Skyrim (and Oblivion and Morrowind for that matter) are just so damned dull.

eager remnant
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I thought the concept behind Morowind's vampire clans had a lot of potential. I really wish they would have expanded on that.

wide garnet
hidden herald
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Werewolf Behemoths

feral viper
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Not that they don't both deserve more. But... They're better off where they are, rather than become as uneven as they were in the base game. Because base game, TES vampires are pretty terrible, 'Fantasy' wise.

feral viper
# eager remnant I thought the concept behind Morowind's vampire clans had a lot of potential. I...

This is one area where I'm surprised there hasn't been more development, Mod wise.

Skyrim already demonstrated that you can have 'Hidden' perk trees that are activated under particular circumstances. They even had them conditional to different progression dynamics (Hearts or Blood depending).

So implementation of Faction Specific perk trees should be mechanically possible. Just... No one does it.

pale walrus
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Now that it's been mentioned - one of the things I distinctly do NOT like in ES is dealing with diseases. Skyrim turned disease into a mere nuisance - just drink a Cure Disease potion and every disease - even Vampirism (except for, I think, the Volkihar version) - goes away. The thing is that even though including disease vectors of various sorts is a logical addition to the game world, I personally have very bad memories from childhood concerning diseases. I had to have surgery when I was 6, and the recovery was extended because of complications. I remember having to spend three weeks in bed, unable to talk for the first two, extremely weak from heavy blood loss and spending almost the entire day sleeping, and during the brief periods I was awake, looking out the bedroom window to see spring growth in the trees, dappled sunlight and such. SO: if diseases were dropped altogether, I'd actually be pleased. If they are included, I need a clear method for getting treatment, such as going to a temple of Mara. I don't want to spend a long time struggling with an illness, wandering around in a semi-crippled state searching for odd ingredients. This even brings to mind another game - Far Cry 2. In that title, your PC spends time in between run and gun adventures traveling to health clinics to get anti-malaria pills - a mechanic which put a major crimp into an otherwise fun (though limited) game. Yeah, I really don't want to see diseases become a major component of gameplay.

feral viper
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Diseases are one of those things that, like Durability, are interesting conceptually but incredibly difficult to execute on in any practical way.

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Over 30 years of gaming, I have found only two games that handle Diseases in a remotely interesting way. Oxygen Not Included, and Rimworld. Technically I think they also exist in Dwarf Fortress, but really the day to day health of your citizens is a lesser concern when you've got 200 Dwarves, compared to 10 Dupes or 6 Colonists...

Somewhat ironically, despite being generally billed as Colony Managers, both Rimworld and ONI are probably as close to a PURE RPG as exists...

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ONI handles Diseases by requiring particular ingredients to make treatments for particular diseases. Diseases have specific penalties which can impact your Dupes. And they are spread based on the presence of particular contaminants, usually in the air or water your Dupes are using. It's relatively simple, compared to Rimworld.

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Rimworld functions based on effectively random chance, based on the environment... Which determines the chance of disease per quadrum. However, in DEALING with those diseases, it's more complicated. Colonists can be treated once every 24 hours, with the quality of the treatment depending on the doctor's skill, and the quality of medicine they use (the base game has 4 qualities: none-Herbal-Standard-Glittertech). That tend quality applies a treatment bonus to the colonists base immunity rate. Whether or not the colonist is sleeping also impacts their immunity rate, so bedrest is in important for some diseases.

If the diseases infection value reaches 100 before their immunity value does, they die.

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Usually, anyway. There are a few that aren't actually fatal

nimble pond
nimble pond
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The way you put it, diseases should probably be moved to a toggle-able survival feature. But I would also expand on it to make it more involved. Basically diseases would have progression (like how vampirism does), starts out not so bad, but as you let it go it can become much a handicap.. Furthermore, there would be additional problems for when a disease gets left untreated for too long, such as city guards barring you from entering cities due to concern of you spreading your disease among the townsfolk (perhaps you could risk infecting your followers as well if you leave the disease untreated for too long). As for cures, you can make cure disease potions, however these only allow "temporary" relief.. the only way to cure a disease is to get blessed. So if you have gotten to the later stages of a disease and you're no longer welcomed into cities, you'll either 1. have to take a disease potion before trying to get into the city to visit a church to get blessed/cured. 2. Rush in past the guards incurring a bounty while trying to get blessed. 3. Find a shrine outside in the overworld.

However, the rate I got diseases in Skyrim was pretty balanced (not too often and not too infrequent). And so the way it worked I didn't really mind and I liked the sense/risk of it in the game world combat as well as it's presence. The penalties weren't too rough either, so it's fine by me. Of course, they could expand on it as I suggested above or other ideas too. Really it's all about how often you get diseases.. and the rate was fairly balanced in Skyrim. It's not like durability which is a "constant" thing.. Not to mention, I don't think Peryite would take kindly to diseases being removed from the world..

nimble pond
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Back to the vampire vs werewolf discussion. I'm kinda over it. I think it'd be more interesting if they just had a faction of afflicted outcasts from the rest of the Tamriel townsolk, of all kinds of types.. vampires, werewolves, werebears, snake-like creatures, (maybe some new ones having to do with flying or underwater). So you could have a more diverse selection to choose from for your playercharacter besides vamp or wolf..
I'm not sure how they would re-write to fit that idea or faction. But I'd welcome it nonetheless.

nimble pond
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I also wouldn't mind if durability worked that way that diseases do. Instead of just constantly draining it's numerical value.. Instead there could simply be impurities upon your weapon from time to time, balanced (not too often or infrequent) like dullness or rust, loose bow string, etc. (which I wouldn't make the penalty become gradually worse, just keep it at a set penalty per the imperfection upon weapon). I always see these grindstones in random caves and dungeons or throughout the world, so they could be better put to use for those situations.
Ofc, this could simply be another toggle-able survival mode option. But I wouldn't mind it in the base game as long as the rate of it happening is balanced. And ofc.. I'm sure certain materials would be completely immune (much in the way certain races are immune to diseases or at least some forms) to any form of decay and perhaps later on you can craft your own weapons free from ever having such problems, something you learn while taking a job as a blacksmith or perhaps it's own skill perk or included with another perk.

But durability as it stands being just a constant decrease in numerical value, is well.. 😐 so I can understand the desire to remove it altogether in that regard.

Furthermore, there are probably some types you wouldn't even have to worry about depending on your builds or playstyles. Like you probably wouldn't get dullness from attacking unarmored foes. Much like you're not going to risk getting rock joint disease from a wolf if they can't get close enough to bite you before you slay them from a distance.

feral viper
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An added problem that BGS games have that aren't as big in games like ONI and Rimworld, is time. In both games, disease cycles can cover days, sometimes weeks. And in a few cases in Rimworld (such as muscle parasites and mechanites of all types) months. But it's also a game where a full day passes in about 15 minutes.

Days are MUCH longer in a Bethesda game, so the same sort of progression isn't really viable. You need to take a different approach.

nimble pond
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Yea, no. I would not make it take weeks or months for a disease or illness to end after being cured.
Instant is fine (considering you've been "divinely-blessed anyway.. 😄).
For progression, I wouldn't mind it being a day-by-day basis (in-game time) for worsening conditions of diseases. Seeing as how it's not incredibly often we get diseased anyway. I think any rate faster than a day would probably be too quickly..

feral viper
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Approach wise, I'd posit something like...

On infection, you get stage 1 of the disease. At that point, in the background, the game starts tracking 2 things. A Progress Rate, and an Immunity Rate.

If the disease hits 100 progress, it advances a stage. What this does depends on the disease.

If Immunity hits 100, then you're cured.

If you take a potion, it boosts your immunity gain. If you rest, it boosts your immunity gain. If you eat regularly, it boosts your immunity gain.

If you're in an infectious environment, it boots progress rate.

So if you're just avoiding the sorts of environments that get you sick, you're ok. Making it an active environmental concern more than anything.

And then, those rates can be scaled through (smarter) difficulty dynamics so players can tailor the experience to their own tastes.

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This means that you have active decision making in addressing the disease. Giving you some situational play around it.

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You may be willing to risk it progressing to finish your current outing, or you may decide to call it short and deal with the problem now.

Higher stages may not even be available at lower settings, making diseases more of a debuff you need to react to rather than an active threat to consider.

nimble pond
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Your method is a little more complex and involved, so I would add those features of diseases to the survival-mode. But it sounds very good!
Speaking of environment, perhaps there would be certain diseases/illness from certain flora as well..

And of course, in the survival-mode, I would say once you hit the final stage of a disease and you hit the 100 rate again.. well, you die.
There could be some that are non-lethal though, because maybe you wanna roleplay the entire playthru as a half-blind character or something, lol.

feral viper
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It is in mechanics, but in experience it'd be pretty simple.

At the lowest end, a disease would simply be a timed debuff that goes away, since Immunity would progress faster than Progress. Drink a Cute Disease Potion to make it go away quicker.

At the highest end, it would become a balancing act which would require you to actually consider active options and change your behaviour accordingly.

But with that in mind, I think that the idea of a Survival Mode inherently misses the point of Difficulty in gameplay. Easiest and Hardest should all have the same things working. It's just a matter of their scaling and how important it is to be aware of them.

nimble pond
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Not a fan of the low-end idea. Might just as well not include diseases at all with that option.

feral viper
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For instance. On Easy, your Immunity is going to have a base modifier so high, you'll never risk hitting Stage 2 of a disease. Even stacking negative, like swimming in sewer water, is only going to make it persist longer, ass your Immunity is still going to outpace it.

In Hard though, you may want to pop a potion, get out of that swamp, and focus on organising your storage options at home for a bit.

The important part is, it's all functioning in the same system, without requiring you to add new ones for new difficulties.

nimble pond
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For the high-end, while it is a clever idea, I feel like it would be too impactful on the player's exploration. That's why I suggested those more complex mechanics for a survival mode.

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Oh I see what you're saying. Difficulty scaling of said feature.

feral viper
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Conceptually, I think Survival Mode should represent 'Hard'

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But the difficulty discussion is a bit of a deeper one than that too.

nimble pond
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Yea difficulty measure has always been something I am not fond of in video games, or at least how it's been implemented. Giving enemies more hp doesn't make it more difficult, it just makes it take up more of my time.

nimble pond
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Difficulty needs more customability and toggleability options. And much of that can applied thru things we have come to know as "survival features."

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So you can have a sense of survival mode from easy to hard or however you personally tailor it.

feral viper
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This is another thing that Rimworld does spectacularly. It has particular 'Settings' in terms of Difficulty, from Community Builder to Blood And Dust... But those settings aren't absolute. You can actually customize everything those settings impact directly to make a difficulty SPECIFICALLY to your tastes.

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Want fewer natural disasters, but more tense fights were weapons do more damage? You can do that.

nimble pond
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Oh, to have that kind of control over it, would be far too wonderful and dream-like ☺️

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Create your character? Create your difficulty too, if you so wish over the presets.

feral viper
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It also allows you to disable specific events, or force specific events on certain timers... Like if you want an Orbital Trade Ship to show up once a month, rather than it being entirely random.

But that sort of thing isn't really applicable to TES.

nimble pond
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Could make it rain ..forever

wide garnet
pale walrus
wide garnet
nimble pond
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Sounds perfect 🥰

scenic scarab
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any elder scrolls baddies in this chat?

nimble pond
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What.

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Anyway I did like how the environment itself could pose hazardous at times in Shivering Isles and you could even lure enemies into the toxic plants as well. Would like to see more of that so it's just not enemies you have to watch out for, but plants and the environment as well.

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Combo effects.. a possibility. Like if your opponent is wet, an electric spell should do more dmg and more spread.

pale walrus
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Jungles would be an optimal environment for such dangerous flora, like a giant version of a venus flytrap or plants that spew poisonous gasses or projectiles. Doesn't have to be restricted to jungles, but it makes sense if such plants are more common there because of competitive pressures.

feral viper
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From a purely real-world perspective, the only environments which are likely to offer ambient dangers would be extremely humid or wet ones (jungles and wetlands) extremely arid ones (deserts) and extremely cold ones (mountains and wintery environments). At least for Humans, as we are extremely well adapted to temperate and grassland environments with temperatures between 15 and 40c. So long as we have access to sufficient water anyway.

Wet environments tend to have an abundance of bacterial and microscopic life that strains immune systems, while high humidity can interfere with our ability to sweat (which is basically our super power as a species). Arid environments cause rapid dehydration. And cold environments cause... Well, hypothermia.

So places like the jungles of Valenwood and Elsweyr, the swamps of Black Marsh, the deserts of Elsweyr and Hammerfell... Those would likely serve as good grounds for the general ambient environmental risks to people. Just BEING in them, without being careful or properly prepared, could be dangerous.

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Hammerfell in particular basically has all the necessary environments. Jungles, deserts, and mountains. Meaning it could serve as a good platform for such ambient risks. Especially given that we know they've already developed at least a proof of concept system for such considerations with Starfield.

pale walrus
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I've been wondering about the variety of climates and geography in HF. I'd have no problem if BGS broke up the province into pieces and released them one by one when they are really complete. Maybe they can take a page from the ESO folks to do this well.

feral viper
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Hammerfell SHOULD have a variety of environments. Whether or not it does remains to be seen.

pale walrus
nimble pond
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I mean Skyrim had different environments besides snow. So I think regardless of the selected province, you'll see more environments within it besides the main one it is "known" for more than the others. Like Skyrim obviously being snow, High Rock jagged mountains with gravely-surfaced coastlines, foggy, Argonia swampy marshy, etc.

feral viper
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It did, though... It was a little too 'low fantasy' with it.

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Skyrim lacked the magic of high fantasy, or the colour and diversity of realism. Erring towards a set colour palette which made everything feel quite same-y

pale walrus
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I don't know about any of you, but every ES title I've played has certain parts in it that instill a strange longing in me for a farther horizon. An example would be Skyrim - a few times, I came to the end of a road and could proceed no farther, and I would find myself standing there for 10, 15, even 20 minutes, trying to find a way around or thru. All the roads that ended in a gate - east of Riften, south of Falkreath, southeast of Helgen - did that to me. The road going east from Windhelm towards Blackligh had no gate, but it made it actually worse. Same with the road going south along the west coast from Solitude towards Jehanna. I want to go on. I NEED to go on. I don't fully understand it. But the longing.....I feel it even today, almost 10 years after I last played the game. And it's not the only ES title that did this to me. Am I the only person who experiences this?

eager remnant
# pale walrus I don't know about any of you, but every ES title I've played has certain parts ...

I have that feeling all the time. With me it often happens on mountain tops. I'll be on the Throat of the World and see a bit of Vvardefell or I'll catch a glimpse of the White Gold Tower from the Jerall Mountains and feel an urge to go there. There's a road in the far northwest of the map that presumably leads to High Rock. It dead-ends at the edge of the map and I find that very frustrating. I always want to keep going.

The land behind the gate south of Falkreath is actually very nice. The road continues for quite a long distance and the landscape is richly detailed. I have started several characters back there. Their stories begin as they walk north to that gate. I've often thought a modded village or a player home would look terrific back there.

pale walrus
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👍

slim berry
pale walrus
clever falcon
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Man where's the battlespire channel

slim berry
clever falcon
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I still don't understand why they did dwarven ruins for Skyrim

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Could have had Falmeri ruins in the more north parts, Direnni in the West

pale walrus
# clever falcon Could have had Falmeri ruins in the more north parts, Direnni in the West

Good point. There was an extreme lack of Snow Elf ruins. Direnni might have been pushing it; I might be wrong, but my understanding is that the Direnni were by and large confined to central and western HR and the shores of Iliac Bay, both north and south. The Dwemer ruins make some sense - after the accord between the Chimer and the Dwemer in the Merethic, several Dwemer tribes had a snit and decided to break away. The Rourken almost all went to HF (though there is, apparently, one Rourken settlement in Skyrim (IrthKang or something, south of Dawnstar) and there might be another Rourken settlement in Black Marsh (why they would do such a thing is beyond me.) ) Another Dwemer tribe moved west but settled across Skyrim.

clever falcon
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Not quite: the Rouriken dwarven house didn't go almost to Hammerfell. They literally went to Hammerfell. Their king at the time threw his hammer Volendrung, and the tribe followed it down across Cyrodiil to where it fell in the Alikir. They dubbed the land Volenfel, or Hammerfell.

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The dwarves in Skyrim are a wholesale invention of TES5 and don't even have a clan name

pale walrus
# clever falcon The dwarves in Skyrim are a wholesale invention of TES5 and don't even have a cl...

Wait - found something. The dwemer tribe/sub-tribe that moved from Resdayn/Morrowind to Skyrim was called Kragen. There apparently were a few other clans that came along as well, but they remain unnamed in the lore. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dwemer

Lore:Dwemer

The Dwemer (/ˈdwɛ.mɜːr/ dwe-mer, /ˈdweɪ.mɜːr/ dway-mer, or /ˈdwi.mɜːr/ dwee-mer), (literally 'the Deep, or Deep-Counseled or Secretive People, people of the deep), are a fabled "Lost Race" of Mer from Dwemereth, which mostly consisted of modern-day Morrowind, where they are believed to have been the most prolific, though they also had a strong p...

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Is it just me, or do the dwemer look somewhat Babylonian?

clever falcon
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Babylonian, Zionite

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Cradle of civilization is their theme. I picture the Numidium as a huge Babylonian flesh mech with a torn open face plate revealing gums and far too many teeth

slim berry
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Sometimes you just need to be able to swear in horror. 😔 🤣

pale walrus
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Somehow I don't think we're 'done' with these giant automatons in ES. Numidium never received Lorkhan's Heart, but was powered by the Mantella (either composed of the soul of Zurus Arctus or by some other powerful soul under his control) and used twice, each time causing a Dragon Break (I think.) It seemed to operate as the equivalent of a mobile Tower, along with all the implications of such. It may have been destroyed after each use, but I wonder if somebody hasn't taken all the pieces and hidden them somewhere - maybe even on another plane.

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Then there was Akulakhan (you have to wonder where BGS gets these weird names.) It was never completed and I think it may have been destroyed - maybe with Lorkhan's Heart (though that might not actually have been destroyed, but also 'displaced' to another plane) or maybe with the Red Year and Red Mountain's eruption.

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But what all of this indicates (to me at least) is that such monstrous constructs can be built again. Who knows - maybe the Thalmor will take a page from Tiber Septim and build their own "MechaGodzilla" with which to conquer all of Tamriel. I wouldn't put it past them, and I'm sure they have the brainpower and magic skill to do so.

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Hmmm. Well, well. Right there is a potential central story for ES6. A faction of Thalmor want to end Mundus so that the Altmer can reclaim their rightful place with the Immortals before the Dawn Era. To do this, they team up with a hidden rogue group of Shehai - the Hiradirge - who also want to bring the Far Shores within direct reach of the Redguard/Yokudans. Together, they search for hidden knowledge to complete their plans - the Thalmor wanting information on Anumidium to finish building their own, and the Hiradirge to recover the lost art of creating a Pankratosword. The plan: to send this ThalmorZilla, armed with the Pankratosword, to destroy Ada-Mantia on Balfiera Isle. As far as I know, none of the other towers are active any longer.

clever falcon
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The player in TES6 will be the HoonDing, I'm 100% sure of that

pale walrus
clever falcon
#

The HoonDing is literally a reincarnation of Frandar Hunding yes

#

It's supposed to only be Redguards but Bethesda is gonna ignore that, think Cyrus the Unending

pale walrus
#

LOL! Ok, cool 😃

forest surge
pale walrus
# forest surge Or Nerevarine being Argonian

The guy who runs the DJ Studios channel on YT does painfully hilarious videos of Dagoth Ur commenting on many things - including Argonians in general as well as the idea of an Argonian Nerevarine. You'll laugh hard enough to pass out. 🤣

forest surge
#

Oh that guy, I don’t personally find it funny

clever falcon
#

No, the Nerevarine is specifically an outlander

nimble pond
#

Do they have floating, mobile, foldable cities? Kinda like how the Khajiit caravan moves their camps around. But been hoping some race or creatures would adapt the dwemer airships and move their "skycamps" around the sky. Perhaps when several of them are parked in the same skyspace it could be like a mini trading sky city. Hope they make the airships big enough to explore too, like mini-dungeons.

nimble pond
feral viper
#

Based on real world naming conventions, it's likely that Hunding's name is referential TO the HoonDing, and not the other way around.

clever falcon
#

If you mean in general, yes. The Empire used to have several void spires, basically space stations, but those had been decommissioned as of 3E 427. The Sload use necromancy and flesh magic to turn dead sealife into airships.

#

There have been multiple successful attempts to reproduce dwemer airships since the late second era, and the Direnni used to have their own skyships

#

And of course the Aldmeri Sunbirds, I'm not sure if they're still active or not

feral viper
#

Don't expect anything creative or cool from the old lore making an appearance.

#

It'd be nice, sure, but EXPECT Elder Scrolls 6: Arabian Nights.

clever falcon
#

I actually don't know if the Reman era mothships made it into Talos' reign

#

Those were whole castles

#

Oh and bretons have hot air balloons, one ended up in Oblivion somehow. I believe Clavicus Vile's realm?

clever falcon
# feral viper It'd be nice, sure, but EXPECT Elder Scrolls 6: Arabian Nights.

With the negative reception of Starfield's "streamline fallout 4 even more and aim for elevated realism in art direction" approach, I have to believe BGS MY is taking a step back from the trees so to speak. Maybe reassessing what's worked (it just works?) And what failed. If TES6 is Todd Howard's swan song, I expect it to be a return to form.

#

Do I expect Morrowind 2? No, but hopefully it's more than desert. Daggerfall showcased Hammerfell as a rather funky place with lots of strange flora, an ever present undead issue. The Rouriken dwarves and their Goldmail and airships, the highly layered and individualist culture and spirituality of redguards.

#

If I remember right, Orsinium is within the Hammerfell borders as of 4E 201

#

Though honestly I think the 4E dark age is a massive rate limiter. Skyrim is very uh, devoid of culture?

feral viper
#

I mean, it's leagues ahead of Oblivion in basically every way but that's a whole other point

clever falcon
#

Well from a meta standpoint yes, in universe no

#

Oblivion is only what six years after morrowind? It's still the late third era, the empire and its vassal states have never been more wealthy.

#

Apartments exist! Apartments!

feral viper
#

My point, however was that given Bethesda's consistent track record over the last 20 years, expecting anything more than a broad and rather generic Arabian Fantasy Adventure is unfounded.

clever falcon
#

One can hope

#

I need to keep myself sane somehow. I'll be happy with more than like six enemy types, skyrim is very narrow in terms of variety. Bandits, spriggans are the only fae (maybe wisp mothers), drauger and skeletons, like... Four kinds of daedra? Three atronachs and dremora I think are the only daedra

feral viper
#

Hope, and expectations, are two different things IMO. You can hope for better, but still set realistic expectations.

slim berry
#

The jarl also pointedly does not seek my council.

feral viper
#

Anywho, priorities and all that.

While airships would be nice, Bethesda needs to at least hit certain benchmarks that they've generally been missing. For instance (and admittedly this is based on subjective preference) at least 3 major cultural groups who actually feel distinct.

In the case of Hammerfell, we're looking at something like the Crowns, Forebears, and Alik'r. Yes, you COULD throw in the Lhotunics, the border cities, Stros M'kai etc. but setting a minimum threshold to meet creates solid goals.

Then, each of these 3 must be distinct in some way. Not just a simple visual difference, like the Imperials and Stormcloaks in Skyrim, or the Counties of Cyrodiil. Distinct practices, traditions and outlooks.

#

Once you've got that foundation, then you can start with 'Itd be Kool if'. But if you can't even hit the lowest bar, spending time on frivolities isn't going to make the end product better.

#

I'd personally also discourage Meme Cultures. While it works within the context of Fallout, the infiltration of it into TES and it's presence in Starfield makes it very clear that, putting the work into at least trying to develop a culture instead of just leaning on a Meme is vastly superior.

pale walrus
# nimble pond Do they have floating, mobile, foldable cities? Kinda like how the Khajiit carav...

That sounds super fun! Somebody ought to be able to figure out how to reactivate any of the remaining dwemer airships. If I remember what I've read in lore, the Altmer might have their own version of airships - it would make sense, because to talk to anybody they need to travel overseas, and sailing is not always the best or safest way. And you'd think the Bosmer would have this too, for travel between their tree cities. If the Argonians can have their own subway, then one or more tribes/races should be able to figure out a limited air travel. And like you said - air travel should open up opportunities to do other things, like trade, adventure (maybe even reaching places that are otherwise unreachable by land travel) and other stuff.

pale walrus
pale walrus
clever falcon
#

Yeah that's about right

#

Probably decomposition gas. Also no the HoonDing is not related to Sep, the Redguards look at Sep like Elves do: an evil trickster

pale walrus
feral viper
#

But no, we don't have any real information on WHAT he is. And what information we do extremely vague

#

All we know is, the first was supposedly an Avatar of Diagna. And it is a 'Make Way God' who represents 'Perseverance over infidels'.

#

Which personally, I think it's much better interpreted in a far more negative light than most people see it.

clever falcon
#

Classically the HoonDing appears to unite and lead the Redguards in a time where their typical individualism doesn't serve. Basically Hammerfell always gets rolled at the start of a conflict, until the HoonDing incarnates and does a videogame plot

feral viper
#

More that... The Hoonding appears when the Redguard start to fight amongst themselves, and start to change. It then sets them in the path of war against an outside enemy and drowns that reformation in a wave of conflict and blood.

#

The Hoonding is actively a force of ethnocentric dogmatism whose manifestations only bring destruction.

#

It is Radical Ethnic Populism Made Flesh.

#

And IMO, the only thing that saved Tamriel last time, was Ator's death. Trapped in a sword and with no will of his own, the HoonDing couldn't repeat the cycle of devastation that characterises it's appearances.

nimble pond
pale walrus
#

I suspect that ES6 will be more than the Crowns and Forbears having another of their endlessly repeated hissy fits (why can't they settle up for once and all? It's ridiculous! Like an arguing old married couple.) I still very much like the idea of a Thalmormechzilla armed with a pankratosword aimed at bringing down the Adamantine Tower, under the control of the Hiradirge and a particularly looney tunes faction of the Thalmor. Would love to see this as a battle for the ages, where a Thalmor naval force brings the mechzilla along with an invading force of Altmer, Khajiit and Bosmer, opposed by a united force of Redguard with sword singers, Bretons and Thu'um-using Nords. It should be so epic that it makes the Battle of the Five Armies or Normandy or Kursk look like a golf tournament. And the PC could be yielding some sort of impossibly dangerous Shehai deliberately designed to counter the Pankratosword.

feral viper
#

Whoops got that backwards... Diagna was the first avatar OF the HoonDing, not the other way around.

pale walrus
#

Wait - I'm sorry, I'm still confused about this (apologies.) Is the Hoonding an avatar or 'chosen' of Sep like how the Eternal Champion, Nerevarine, 'Hero of Kvatch' and Last Dragonborn are supposed to be avatars/'chosen' of Lorkhan? I'm assuming the question makes sense in the first place, which I cannot guarantee (again, I'm confused about this.)

feral viper
#

The HoonDing is a god or manifesting Spirit that takes an Avatar in a mortal, and... Well, proceeds to whip the Yokudan people into a bloody frenzy where they go and annihilate some foreign enemy.

pale walrus
#

OK, that helps. Thank you. 🙂

feral viper
#

We don't currently know if it is related to any other god, like Ruptga or Sep.

#

If I were to handle it's development, I'd give it an older, more dreadful name. The Bloody Ulcer of Akel

forest surge
feral viper
#

I want them to be the antagonist, personally.

#

But you know... I'm a radical

forest surge
feral viper
#

I don't want the Thalmor to be the core focus yet. So far, they... Just aren't the necessary sort of threat. Not powerful or desperate enough.

#

Having them as a secondary threat, sure. But the HoonDing as the primary, existential threat fits more with the general 'world ending' trend of the series.

forest surge
feral viper
#

No, but they also say other nonsense things like 'The HoK wasn't a Chosen One' and 'Mundane stories like the Mages Guild are better'.

The problem has never been the existential crisis (which is a hallmark of the franchise, whether the naysayers like it or not) but rather the execution of it.

#

And really... I am of the opinion that people don't generally know WHAT they like. Because they frequently demand things that they then complain about.

forest surge
feral viper
#

So do I. And I have for years.

#

Ultimately, what people want are well told stories. Thats it. It doesn't matter if you're the chosen one, or you're trying to stop the end of the world, what matters is that it's well executed.

pale walrus
#

I just remembered something - ES2 happened around or near this general area. Is there something about ES2 that needed 'fixing'? Maybe that's the goal here for BGS - to do ES2 the way it 'should have' been done. The ES2 story (I've never played it) sounds very impressive, with a great ending - everybody gets most of what they want and things become much more peaceful. But it took a Numidium-instigated dragon break to get there.

forest surge
#

So repetition has it’s points if you continue to do it.

#

Granted these are different threats each time with World Ending Stories

feral viper
#

There's also the sort of existential threat that you have to consider.

Like, Morrowind is generally praised for its 'Low' end of the world threat. It wasn't some grand apocalypse that would blow the planet up and what not. It was the threat posed by a dangerous cult, with goals of world domination and subsumption into the Dagoth Hive Mind.

Then we had Oblivion, which was... Well, less said the better.

In Skyrim, it's not even clear if it WAS an end of the world threat. The game never actually commits to any one idea long enough to give it the room to develop.

feral viper
forest surge
#

ESO writers plz

feral viper
#

But, with Hammerfell, you've basically got what.. Evil Elves? A snake eating the world? Giant Goblins?

Bethesda has already gone to the 'But Elves am meanies' well in two consecutive games. Tapping that a 3rd time in a row becomes an agenda.

A big lizard eating the world was at least half of Alduin's confused motivations and end goals in Skyrim. So that would just be the same plot with a desert palette instead of snow.

And Giant Goblins... Well...

#

A plot about a radicalized populist movement led by a mythic semi-divine avatar with a history of causing mass bloodshed and destruction?

Still an 'end of the world' plot, but driven by a more human element.

#

An analogous story would be the Necrontyr and the Old Ones from Warhammer 40,000.

While the Old Ones weren't exactly generous, they were content to let the Necrontyr do their own thing. But as the Necrontyr spread, and established their own kingdoms and dynasties, they started to fight amongst themselves. In order to prevent their own internal strife, the Silent King turned them outwards, plunging the galaxy into millions of years of catastrophic destruction, which ultimately left both peoples in ruins.

#

Use the HoonDing and the threat it poses as representative of the danger of destructive Warrior Cultures and the cycle of violence.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Yes, and I was not fond. I choose to view that particular section as a magi-mythic retelling rather than having literal giant Goblins. Because I find the idea just too silly to be real.

#

They should have just been Orcs.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Most Goblins ARE that big. They're just stooped. A Giant Goblin would tower over humans.

But Orcs with a broader build and better posture, would fit fine with the description, especially considering the ethnic bigotry against Orcs and the tendency for others to associate them with Goblins.

#

A lot of the Hammerfell stuff was good. The Giant Goblins? Not so much.

forest surge
#

Granted, if a revamp were to happen they may change them to be more unique, who knows

#

Base game limits and all that

feral viper
#

It's so inconsequential that I can easily forgive it for being a quirk. Though it does highlight the weird decisions ESO has made in regards to what to take literally, and what to take figuratively.

#

The Green Pact is just meaningless religious dogma with no actual power. But this one obscure Redguard myth about Giant Goblins that was mentioned one time is TOTALLY AND 100% TRUE

forest surge
feral viper
#

And I am MOSTLY more forgiving for that fact.

Except for Valenwood.

forest surge
feral viper
#

It to tie it back to the original point...

My concern with using the HoonDing as a PC is that it will miss the negativities of the HoonDing, fail to explore any meaningful ideas, and ultimately just be a crude hammer to smash in some super powers. Similar to how Temples ended up in Starfield..

#

Just having it used as a ham-bat to smash the Thalmor because 'Hur hur, Elves am bad' does a disservice to every concept involved. The Redguard, the HoonDing, Tamriel, and even the Thalmor

hidden herald
feral viper
#

I chock that up to gameplay in ESO. Otherwise the implication is that the victims of Pelinal's violence actively celebrate him. And that would be like a certain German Chancellor being celebrated in Israel.

And we all know thats not happening, for obvious reasons.

forest surge
pale walrus
#

OK, so: we've talked about ES6 being focused on a Hoonding coming back to lead the redguards against an external enemy. To be honest, that sounds a bit dull. We've also talked about ES6 focusing on some storyline or thread stemming from ES2. I've re-read the sources I could find and wasn't able to identify whatever that 'nagging issue' might be. Maybe we're looking in the wrong place. Maybe the central 'problem' in ES6 has to do with whatever actually occurred that sank Yokuda. After all - ES3 centered on the Merethic or realy 1st era discovery of Lorkhan's Heart and all the problems which flowed outwards from that. ES5 also went back 'to the beginning' to the Merethic and the dragon war. The cataclysm of Yokuda must have 'facets' which haven't been revealed yet.

forest surge
#

We already know what sank Yokuda, the Pankratosword Technique

#

The Celestial Warrior and Rada Al-Saran, a Yokudan Vampire both state that’s what sank it

pale walrus
# forest surge The Celestial Warrior and Rada Al-Saran, a Yokudan Vampire both state that’s wha...

Sure, but: why? Why did somebody use that thing and do what they did? What was the objective - 'apres moi, les deluges!', or something else? Who did it? What drove them to do it? Maybe that event and all the circumstances that led to it in the Merethic or early 1st Era has implications for the fourth era, in the way that the Dragon War and the discovery of Lorkhan's heart did so many thousands of years later. It could be the central theme of ES6.

forest surge
pale walrus
#

👍

#

Wondering at the moment how ES6 will begin. ES3 started with the emperor sending a convict to vvardenfell and delivering him free into the hands of the Blades, with a mission. ES4 saw the PC as a prisoner who was released to protect the emperor. ES5 saw the PC as being inadvertently captured in an Imperial dragnet intended for Ulfric Stormcloak and then escaping. So each time, the PC starts as a convict and is either deliberately freed or gained his liberty by chance stemming from a monumental event. Wondering how that might work in HF.

nimble pond
feral viper
#

Anyway... Technical topic for the day.

Health.

Health is a weird abstraction that is present in most games to some degree. It represents, variably, physical endurance, trauma, pain, serious fatigue, physical wellness, focus, and half a dozen other things to some degree.

#

The only real driving consistently in it being 'Hp = 0 bad'

feral viper
#

The two main models used are Regenerative, and Nonregenerative.

Regenerative models are great at representing the general ebb and flow of health and fitness throughout stress. Little things like being slapped, small shocks, or feeling queasy.

Nonregenerative models are great at representing major injuries, trauma and at least semi-permanent damage that requires direct treatment to recover from

pale walrus
#

Yeah. Health is an oddity in ES (and many other games.) Being able to drink a healing potion during combat is convenient, but rather silly. Said potion providing instant healing is also convenient but silly. The ability to regenerate like a troll is also great to have but fantastical. If the PC had to escape combat in order to consume a healing potion and rest for a bit in order for that potion to take effect, it would throw a very large wrench into the gears of combat gameplay. The PC could no longer be treated like some sort of demigod. There are other games where this break in action is required - typically various kinds of roleplay shooters. Doing the same where combat is dominated by melee would be....difficult.

feral viper
#

Indeed.

And there's also problems with representing various states. It's is chronic problem with games that you are 100% effective until you're just dead... But then games also try to layer in new states with entirely detached effects. Things like Unconscious, or Broken Leg, or what have you. These ARE Health-States, but the general approach to Health is so poor that you have to build entirely superfluous systems just to accomodate them.

#

A good Health System should have basic states and how they come into effect hard baked into it. One simple, clear approach which allows for various dynamics to spin off it, rather than multiple competing dynamics that don't actually interact in a coherent way.

feral viper
#

So the ideal Health system is one which accommodates ANY sort of impact to your physicality, be it temporary or permanent, large or small.

pale walrus
#

Yes. Absolutely agree. The localized damage system in FO was a start; BGS should extensively 'build that out' so that it has much greater depth and...well, validity.

feral viper
#

Location Damage, as a dynamic, has added difficulties in TES that don't apply as readily to Fallout of course. Precise targeting of body parts in first person melee combat is far more difficult, even in systems with far higher hitboxes than TES has traditionally used

feral viper
#

From a purely realistic standpoint, that difficulty is fine. It's incredibly difficult to specifically target an opponent's body parts with any degree of reliability. Human reaction times just aren't that good, especially when your target is also moving. Anything beyond Aiming High, Aiming Low, and Aiming Centre is basically just guess work.

#

However, that lack of control isn't particularly fun.

That said, mechanically it's a relatively easy implement. Damage zones and hitbox tracking. It's not hard to do, it's just... Difficult to make enjoyable. And harder to balance.

One thing Fallout has suffered from in this regard is just how difficult it is to actually DO anything with it. Sure, you can aim for a limb, but chances are your target is going to be dead before you accomplish anything meaningful. For some reason the damage contribution to limbs is so low that an Arm seems to have more HP than the Supermatant it's self.

#

Simplest solution there would be... Character health is an aggregate sum of all their component's health. Meaning in order to kill something, you're PROBABLY going to break something in the process. Add a 'Broken/destroyed Head or Body are typically instantly fatal' and you may be able to basically build an integrated Weak Spot system.

Mechanically this could also make for more interesting encounters, for instance, caving in a Chaurus' head may not effectively kill it, leaving it to unexpectedly fight on cockroach style.

pale walrus
#

I have to say that one thing which really struck me awkwardly was every dragon combat in Skyrim. Part of my subconscious would ask me during the fight "Why am I not dead yet?" Standing in front or to the side of this giant reptile and swinging away artlessly, on occasion being bathed by an icy or fiery breath and having to drink insta-heal potions, was more ridiculous than could be compensated by a suspension of disbelief required of video games.

feral viper
#

Yeah, and that largely plays into some wider basic combat problems that TES, and many other games suffer from.

Dragon Age is another pretty good example of that problem. Regardless of which game it is, fighting a Dragon is basically the same as fighting any other enemy. It's just longer.

Really big and powerful opponents are far more difficult to really deal with mechanically...

#

But as far as health goes, I think Bethesda has really already happened upon the perfect mechanic to make it work, and to cover basically everything, by integrating BOTH Regenerative and Nonregenerative health into a single, clean dynamic.

#

The radiation dynamic already introduced with Fallout 4 basically allows you to do everything, all at once. While also giving you trackable values which can be applied to more baseline behaviours.

Divide it between Health, and Trauma.

Health is regenerative, recovering at a moderate rate even in combat.

Trauma is nonregenerative, requiring active treatment to address, and serves as a negative blocker on Health.

So, if you have 100 Health, but have suffered 27 Trauma, your effective max health is now 73.

clever falcon
#

Elder scrolls does not need realism, it needs depth.

#

Reintroducing things like sailing and climbing, travel networks, interesting world design with lots of bespoke dungeons and meaningful secrets to find

nimble pond
#

Certain intricate detailing can benefit as qol.. but yes depth is definitely more important as well as, is the game "fun?"

forest surge
#

It needs realism in terms of it’s worldbuilding while keeping in mind it’s a fantasy

feral viper
#

Using realism as the comparative benchmark is, and always has been, the gold standard.

#

Because reality is in fact, incredibly deep and complex.

clever falcon
forest surge
clever falcon
#

It can be both, it shouldn't though

feral viper
#

Realism is a generalised term used in worldbuilding contexts as refering to a logical cohesion, complexity, and completeness that leads to a FEELING of realism.

It almost never means 'Literally ripped from the real world'.

forest surge
clever falcon
#

Yes, it's my opinion

feral viper
#

Despite very much not being the real world, Morrowind remains the most realistic of Bethesda's worlds.

Not because it's just Mongolia, but because the work was put into fleshing out the ecology, sociology, culture, history and mythos of Morrowind to make it feel like it could be a real place.

clever falcon
#

The elder scrolls is not a survival series, nor is it a medieval series. It's an arcanapunk fantasy series.

feral viper
#

I... Don't think you know what Realism is.

forest surge
#

Arcanapunk? That really doesn’t sound like Elder Scrolls whatsoever

clever falcon
feral viper
#

At least not in this context.

clever falcon
forest surge
#

Arcanapunk does not come to mind, not even with what I’ve seen of Morrowind

feral viper
#

Yeah, none of those are Aracanapunk. I've never once heard that term used in relation to TES.

In fact it's very... Un-punk in general.

clever falcon
#

Airships, ironclad naval craft, steam power, high magic

feral viper
#

Thats not Arcanapunk. That's high fantasy.

Arcanapunk would be low-class, anti-establishment, anarchic engagement with oppressive authority in a magical world.

#

At BEST, TES can be described as Magitech. Though even that is generally pushing it.

But there's nothing remotely Punk about TES.

forest surge
#

Cyberpunk would be the best example of Oppressive authorities with all the companies keeping everyone on the low end down.

feral viper
#

I could see people who shop at Hot Topic calling TES Punk, but well... Those people miss the point of Punk.

pale walrus
pale walrus
#

Climbing - ABSOLUTELY 100% YES!!!!

forest surge
feral viper
pale walrus
#

Travel networks - I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean?

clever falcon
#

Hammerfell has tons of expansive tombs and catacombs, valleys and mountains

feral viper
#

The point is creating a solid foundation to build on and spin off of, rather than a superficial basis that you then need to constantly duct tape other systems to

forest surge
#

Savanna’s to from what I recall

clever falcon
#

Hammerfell is as varied as (pre-tes4) Cyrodiil

feral viper
#

And pre-TES5 Skyrim

forest surge
#

We already saw some of it in ESO, it’s not all desert despite what some may think

clever falcon
#

Hell, there's Mangrove wetlands along the Bjoulse

feral viper
#

So, don't get your hopes up.

clever falcon
#

ESO is completely flat with a few stones scattered around and has a lot of questionable art direction in Hammerfell, but ESO isn't Bethesda

forest surge
clever falcon
#

That's what I said

feral viper
#

Bethesda's consistently done worse with worldbuilding and environments in TES, than ESO, for the last 20 years, soooo...

forest surge
pale walrus
feral viper
#

Again, don't get your hopes up. It'd be a treat if we got ESO quality from BGS in the next Elder Scrolls.

forest surge
clever falcon
#

There's mangroves along the Bjoulse river, which runs from the Iliac to Skyrim and divides Hammerfell and Highrock

#

They're in Daggerfall

pale walrus
forest surge
feral viper
#

Hammerfell has the potential to be one of the more diverse provinces. However, whether or not that potential is realised remains to be seen.

clever falcon
#

They called the area around Necrom the Telvanni peninsula, hilarious

steep relic
forest surge
clever falcon
#

It is in fact straight up wrong

forest surge
#

No it is not lol

clever falcon
#

It's Indoril land

feral viper
#

I mean, hell. Skyrim can't even establish its antagonists GOALS. And Oblivion... The less I say about Oblivion, the better.

But story, setting and artistic interpretation are too subjective a topic to get into. Especially given the... Well.

Ping me when we get back to something remotely constructive.

forest surge
# clever falcon It's Indoril land

Taking what a book said at face value? Remember how far in the past this game takes? Do you think Land doesn’t change between waring houses?

forest surge
clever falcon
#

It's Indoril land, period

forest surge
feral viper
forest surge
#

It is the lower end of the Telvanni Peninsula, it is the Peninsula, not the whole of it but it’s on the peninsula itself.

clever falcon
#

No it's just Indoril land

forest surge
#

Understand real world history and then come back

clever falcon
#

I'm not sure what else to say there

nimble pond
clever falcon
#

Again Tamriel isn't the real world. Ironclads and canons existed in the late second era and haven't been seen since for example.

feral viper
#

The Telvanni Peninsula is the NAME OF THE LANDMASS. It is not a deed of ownership.

Like, Yarmouth Nova Scotia (New Scotland) isn't Scottish territory, it's Canadian.

forest surge
feral viper
clever falcon
#

It's be less like that and more like a US state being called Democrat land being a republican state. This is an example, mods.

steep relic
#

Look what you did, you upset Dyno

feral viper
#

What did I type that triggered that...

steep relic
#

S

feral viper
#

I can only assume it was a typo that triggered the bot... In which case, my bad.

steep relic
#

Hard to typo that word

forest surge
#

And lastly, nobody is saying it isn’t Indoril Land now, but this is a game that take place in the Past, 970 or so years, times change, land changes hands, it’s never 1 to 1 the same thing.

#

Western and Eastern Skyrim are their own separate Kingdoms, not one whole Kingdom by Skyrim.

feral viper
steep relic
#

Where you trying to say slip* of land?

feral viper
#

Aaah, probably...

steep relic
#

lol, you slipped a couple letters

feral viper
#

That'd do it.

clever falcon
#

Necrom is literally the second holiest site in Morrowind, in the Dunmer faith, besides Almalexia. House Indoril is the highly traditionalist religious house that defends the faith

forest surge
clever falcon
#

It's Indoril land AND Telvanni doesn't care about politicking, they just want to be left alone

feral viper
#

For example. Easter Island. Literally the only reason it's named that today, is because it was discovered by European explorers on Easter by the Portuguese. The name stuck. Despite the island having literally nothing to do with Easter in any capacity.

The Telvanni Peninsula is likely named for Telvanni's settlement of it in Morrowind's early history. THAT IS ALL.

It would in no way mean others didn't later settle it and build a major city there.

nimble pond
forest surge
clever falcon
#

They don't

#

That's like Hlaalu's thing

feral viper
#

Alright, well, the facade of good faith arguments are gone I guess.

forest surge
feral viper
steep relic
#

im glad you have all gone this long and only pinged Dyno once.

pale walrus
#

Wait - the Dunmer houses still compete, but as I understood it, war is forbidden and the only way they can come to a 'mortal reckoning' is thru assassinations contracted thru the Morag Tong.

#

To be candid, I think this is probably the best system for settling internal squabbles of all the races/tribes of Tamriel.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Back to a constructive point.

Once you have a basic mechanical function of how Health works, you can address how healing works, how damage works (and from that how Armour and Weapons work) etc.

But you need that core foundation to start.

#

Regenerative Health allows you to handle the ebb and flow of things, covering representations of effects like the pain of smashing your funny bone. It HURTS, it leaves your arm numb for a few seconds, but it's not something that needs a doctor.

Then Nonregenerative Trauma allows you to handle things like lacerations, broken bones, etc.

And using Trauma as a negative blocker ON health means that these sorts of serious injuries actually have a lasting and functional impact on your capabilities. The more injured you are, the less you can expect to safely be able to handle even the minor bumps.

clever falcon
#

So I'm writing a dumb fanfic thing and I feel like an adventure party needs to be four, but can't think of a forth

#

Matus Urban, Cyrodiil Warrior
Al'Qyeh, Khajiit Bard
Gaelinhir Toadfoot, Bosmer Mage

feral viper
#

I think it depends largely on what they're doing. If they're traveling the coasts, could be a Redguard Cartographer. If they're in the interior, could be a Nord Mountaineer. Could be a Dunmer merchant. Or a Breton lesser noble trying to prove his worth.

clever falcon
#

Traveling from Skaven to the northern edge of old Rouriken territory, currently Nova Orsinium land, to recover an artifact of Jyggalyg from a Dwarven Orrery

feral viper
#

Breton Archaeologist

clever falcon
#

I'll flip a coin for M/F but the names are uhhhh. Fedario Boleneux or Gatiana Boleneux

pale walrus
solid ridge
#

Hey all TE SO players , what else to do in game as i have just reached 210 champion points by playing dungeons and repeat playing them, i don't know if there are anything else to play

nimble pond
#

Back to an earlier topic, it would be pretty cool if we actually get to create a city, that did not exist on any map prior, from the ground up in a province. Raise an army and all that. Or, I often thought of Orsinium, after being sacked over and over, would love to help build it up so strong (either after being sacked again or still in the early stages of development) that it never again falls to Breton nor Redguard. Heck, bring em' both again I'll do a 1v2, there would be no greater honor. Plus, I can turn the entire Iliac Bay red with their spilt blood 😁

eager remnant
nimble pond
#

And I really enjoyed having camps in Skyrim. I'd like to see it expanded on. I come across so many nice views and instantly want to build a shelter there. Which I would love to have more selection for our shelters because I'm not going to want a house or castle everytime, maybe I want to live away from all the noise that is civilization and in the type of home that suits my character and their culture/beliefs. Whether it's out in the woods, in a cave, underground, underwater, or even up in a tree. Different shelter styles to choose from and not just pre-set shelters. Maybe even a magic-based one that can fit in your pocket and you just throw it down and shrink into it, so it's with you wherever you go. Almost like living in a snow globe.

pale walrus
# nimble pond And I really enjoyed having camps in Skyrim. I'd like to see it expanded on. I c...

For me, the real estate aspect of Skyrim was of interest, but needs improvement. Being able to buy a home in each city was nice - I had lots of loot to store, and having a housecarl provided a sufficient sense of security. The Hearthfire expansion, however, was more mixed. Sure, having a farm, a forge and a home with enchanting and alchemy stations was great. But the sense of security was zero - one housecarl (especially one that could be killed) was not nearly enough. I'd much rather have a heavily fortified installation - like a keep or castle - with ample security. This could become a town on its own that generates revenue. The fortification feature needs to be better than what FO4 offered, however - having to break off from doing something to go defend a settlement was irritating, and enemy raiding parties spawning WITHIN a settlement was doubly irritating.

feral viper
#

I think Starfield's Shipbuilder actually offers some great potential in that regard, allowing you to have both a more freeform building system, but still maintain certain limitations to keep it from sprawling out of control.

By default anyway. We all know the limits are going to be modded out almost instantly

pale walrus
#

OK, so the settlement system is clearly evolving from ES5 to FO4 to FO76 and now Starfield. It'll be interesting to see what BGS comes up with for ES6. Having the ability to build a keep which evolves into a town or being appointed thane/mayor of a town and improving it so that it grows and also becomes more secure are both appealing. And in terms of vehicles, I like the idea mention previously very much of building an airship that becomes something like a floating keep and town.

feral viper
#

Unfortunately, the settlement system hasn't really evolved THAT much from FO4 to Starfield. It's had some quality of life improvements, but... Well..

#

It's still got a long way to go before I'd call it good.

#

Though, Sim Settlements did kinda manage to address some of the issues with it. So there's that I guess.

nimble pond
#

Oh, I think there are certain security measures you could use out there that would not be allowed in any city.. 🤭
But it would prob be of less interest to bandits or thieves anyway whether it's a lean-to, A-frame, dugout, etc.. as opposed to some fancy house or castle. Could probably be just fine laying out a hammock between trees too. I'd be more concerned about the weather and only a handful of animals than anything else.

As for the raiding parties on your house or fort, honestly just laying down some counter-measures on the property should be enough to take them down without any additional help while you are away. Maybe some traps could even capture some live specimens. 😏

nimble pond
#

Let food get decent value too. I remember getting alchemy skill up to make a decent amount of gold for crafting and selling potions. With a cooking skill, maybe could have something similar depending on the dish we make.
With weather, perhaps with some of the types of weather and other conditions, certain creatures only spawn with them?

pale walrus
nimble pond
#

I was just thinking how awkward it would be to be a Khajiit with a pet cat.

pale walrus
#

😆

feral viper
feral viper
#

I think, on the grand scale of consumables...

Food should be the longest lasting, with effects lasting a whole day.

Elixers should be second, with effects lasting several hours.

Potions should be reasonably long lasting with effects at least an hour long.

Tonics are quick acting.

pale walrus
#

I can tell you from personal experience that certain tonics (such as those with Gin or Vodka) are indeed quick acting, but their residual effects can take some time from which to recover, and that recovery process can be mighty unpleasant....

feral viper
pale walrus
#

By 'regulating', do you mean you have to be 18 or older and show your driver's license before you can buy them at a store? 😉

feral viper
#

Yes

#

Or, more specifically, by having Tonics function as alcohol. So you get the quick acting effects (like what potions currently do) but they come with a temporary drawback.

Not a hard limit, like Witcher Potions, but something to create more of a soft restriction.

final spruce
#

is anyone else having trouble claiming the daily login reward? it's not letting anyone i know claim it after the daily reset.

eager remnant
umbral dove
dim reef
fathom willow
#

Any idea when "elder scrolls castles" might come out?

gloomy anchor
#

No information on that yet.

fathom willow
gloomy anchor
proven ridge
brazen path
#

Hello I have a problem with my skyrim games I can't launch the first cinematic because it bugs when I'm in the cart it goes in all directions and I'm not in fashion and I tried to put in 60 fps it doesn't work someone help me please ps: sorry for my English I use google translation I'm French

nimble pond
nimble pond
# brazen path Hello I have a problem with my skyrim games I can't launch the first cinematic b...

https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/1488866180609838601/

Opening cinematic bug :: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim General Discus...

I don't have any mods installed I just downloaded the game, and the opening cinematic is all bugged out. The cart is flying everywhere on the road and upside down sometimes, feel like I'll get a seizure if I look at it for too long because the movement is so rapid. I've uninstalled the game and removed game files, then installed it again. How do...

zinc goblet
#

Still can't claim daily rewards for 29 days.

eager remnant
alpine hollow
nocturne stone
#

As this server is for games developed by Bethesda Game Studios themselves. ESO is developed by ZeniMax Online Studios.

glass marlin
#

Also explains why there is no Fallout New Vegas channel, as that was made by Obsidian.

eager remnant
pale walrus
pale walrus
glass marlin
fathom willow
feral viper
flint anchor
#

Hey I play elder scrolls blades and I have always wondered where the kingdom of blood fall was on the map of Tamerial

#

Can you imagine expanding the Mobil game to include new quests all over Tamerial that would be so cool!

feral viper
flint anchor
#

It almost seems like near a coastline somewhere I always wondered….

feral viper
#

It seems to be somewhere in the more temperate regions, so it would likely be somewhere in southern Colovia.

flint anchor
#

I was feeling somewhere down south also , but we do get snow! At least in our towns lol

#

Man if they expanded the game to include regions all over Tamerial it would be like Skyrim for mobile awsome stuff

flint anchor
feral viper
#

If we apply an actually feudal lens to Cyrodiil, then the 'Counties' are most likely Kingdoms of their own. Which would make Bloodfall either a minor kingdom, or either a County or Duchy. Likely South West of Chorrol.

#

Why they chose to call them Counties in Oblivion is utterly beyond me..

flint anchor
#

I don’t know either but in the story it does say that blood fall is a small kingdom that that the imperial could care less about…makes sense

pale walrus
#

I would bet my last dollar that if Cyrodiil collapsed, there would be a general colovian-nedic schism with both sides fighting each other sporadically, as well as the city-states in each region fighting each other. Think ancient Greece and all their ridiculous squabbles.

feral viper
#

I was thinking more the war between the Second Triumvirate and the Liberatores

#

Pull in some proper Roman influences, with different Legions picking different sides, rather than treating the Legion as a single group-mind that all does the same thing.

pale walrus
#

Oh - that would be carnage on a grand scale. Again, the Thalmor would do best to simply sit back and watch while the idiotic imperials annihilate each other.

pale walrus
#

What non-playable races/tribes does everyone want to see in ES6? I would really like to see the Sload - and not just one, but several.

feral viper
#

Depends on the region.

#

Hammerfell: Sload, Goblins, Harpies.

Elsweyr: Imga, Goblins, Harpies, Lhamia.

Valenwood: SATYR. Maybe Sload and Maormer.

hidden herald
#

Imga are definitely in Valenwood, but were not included in-game due to time constraints.
If you want to see Sload, check the Summerset chapter in ESO.
Lilmothiit in Black Marsh may or may not be extinct, or just hiding

feral viper
forest surge
feral viper
#

Mostly for the sake of appearance, and integration as an enemy type.

If you aren't going to make them enemies, then by all means, keep them sophisticated and civilised. There's nothing wrong with cultured and engaging subterranean civilisations. As much as I absolutely despise the rise in people believing in such nonsense, draw inspiration from Tartarians and Inner Earth new-age mysticism. It's already fiction, to use it in fiction.

But if they're used as an enemy type, then play up the subterranean danger of them. Make them feel like some lost and forgotten degenerates that fear the light. Dig into that 1920s and 30s pulp fiction vibe, throw in some Howard Troglodyte and Lovecraft's Martinez cannibal gremlins.

#

If you make a fox-man an enemy, I want them hunched over, scraggly, scrabbling up narrow tunnels like some eldritch abominations to rip at your flesh with jagged teeth and Rot filled mouths.

forest surge
#

Regardless they lived among Black Marsh, and there is no mention of bad blood between them and the Argonian’s, or Kothringi

#

So unless something actually caused them to go feral I doubt it, but even then that would be leaning into Snow Elf Underground stuff

feral viper
#

No, but what little information we have indicates they were in continuous decline throughout their history. And their final disappearance suggests they were a casualty of the Knahaten Flu. That makes them likely collateral of an Argonian/Hist bio weapon.

Those factors could reasonable be used to justify turning them into a more feral population. Either through their own doing in an attempt to cure their own decline or the infection. Or using it to confirm the Hist-origin of the Knahaten Flu it's self and thus give grounds for the resentment.

#

Again though, the Lilmothiit wouldn't NEED to be enemies. Technically, they could be left entirely extinct and only mentioned. But if they ARE, then effort needs to be made to make them something memorable.

Instead of just reskinned Goblins like the Falmer.

pale walrus
#

This may go against the normal format of ES titles, but I'd actually prefer any non-playable races to be on offer as beings you can talk to instead of just serving as combat targets. The Sload are the most intriguing - the lore suggests they're extremely intelligent and totally untrustworthy. There's a "Deep Old Ones" vibe to them. Same with the Dreugh, though to a somewhat lesser extent. And meeting Lhamia in non-combat situations would be interesting as well.

#

For me, being able to interact with non-playable tribes/races lends itself well to my favorite part of ES titles - exploring. The interactions should involve trade, exchanging information, getting unusual quests and such.

feral viper
#

Oh absolutely. I'd love to see more than just fighting. Every race is a new opportunity for unique and interesting cultures to engage with and explore.

But in any event, it needs to be done well. Too often it's just 'We'll just take X culture and bam, done'. You need to actually put thought into the environment, behaviours and circumstances you're exploring.

And Bethesda hasn't really done that for MAJOR races over the last 20 years, so I wouldn't expect that level of care with a minor one. Easier to just make them enemies.

Still, if you're making them enemies, they need to behave distinctly enough to have value.

hidden herald
pale walrus
feral viper
#

Depends on their actual origins.

#

I'm generally ok leaving them extinct, but if they did come back, I'd be quite disappointed if they were just canine like Khajiit

hidden herald
#

They're Vulpine, fox-people essentially.
Murkmire also gave a potential implication that the Saxhleel predated Mer coming to Tamriel... and if you combine that with many Saxhleel having feathers, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch that one of the tribes was in Dawn Era Cyrodiil before they disappeared, but that adds even more complications to their origins and timeline.

feral viper
#

Tamriel's timeline isn't so much a timeline, as a jumble of post-it notes thrown at a wall

#

We have people appearing in records before they apparently existed, we have events that are given conflicting dates sometimes thousands of years apart, we have cataclysm that were never recorded or remembered by anyone until suddenly they're all over the place...

It's an absolute mess.

pale walrus
#

"jumble of post-it notes thrown at a wall" 🤣 That was beautiful, man

feral viper
#

True, the nature of the Dawn makes a clear timeline impossible... But from the Merethic onward it should at least be stable.

Instead, we get nonsense like Father of the Niben, conflicting claims about the origins of the Nedes, the whole Velothi-Orc issue...

Either Tamriel's scholars are absolutely terrible, or someone actually needs to take the mess and make something coherent from it.

#

Honestly though, I've never understood the fascination with the Lilmothiit. They've only ever been described as generic fox people who went extinct. At least the Kothringi were kinda interesting, with their silver skin.

forest surge
feral viper
#

We don't have a clear answer when H. neanderthalensis emerged as a distinct species. But we know they weren't around before H. erectus.

You can still have ambiguity without being all over the place.

#

The issue is less the ambiguity... And the total uselessness of the information we have. Basically every point, every claim, is contradicted by something else, leaving us with no actual information to reliably draw upon.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Eeeh... Except we have systemic mechanisms in place to establish reliab...

Did you just Sir Pentius me?

forest surge
feral viper
#

Well, I can't argue with my sweetest slimy boy.

elder pawn
#

Hello everyone i have a small question i play "The Elder Scrolls Online" and currently you get a free DLC but the problem is that i already have it, do i get something different or is it like a day with no "Log in reward"?? (If im in the wrong chat for my question just let me know)

eager remnant
elder pawn
nimble pond
#

I like the environment in these games. Maybe they could add more crafting with environmental materials out in the field and not really needing a grindstone or armor table. More like a survivalist skill tree, where are basically a very crafty person out in the wilderness beyond cities all that. Lots of crafting options with the simple environmental things like wood, grass, rope, mud/clay, rocks, anything you can get your hands on out there basically.

feral viper
#

I think, in order to make that worthwhile, they'd need to significantly increase distances and wilderness time in the game spaces.

pale walrus
#

BGS will need to be careful about how they do such a thing. I remember certain areas in Skyrim that were clearly overcrowded, while a few spaces were too empty. If BGS starts making wilderness areas that are not only empty of crypts/dungeons/ruins/etc but also take days to traverse and/or explore, then they still have to make the exploration worthwhile - there have to be rewards for it. The original developers of Deus Ex made sure that whenever a player explored an area or engaged in an activity, it was rewarded in some way. It's a wise approach.

feral viper
#

TES sorta gets around the rewards issue by not using Experience Points in a conventional manner. As long as you're engaging in an activity that that a corresponding Skill, you're being rewarded for that engagement. No risk of a cave in the mountains offering no value what so ever so long as there's an enemy to fight, or a spell to cast in it.

hidden herald
#

From the experiences that people found with a recent BGS title, it seems that the masses might want maps to be dense.

feral viper
#

The hilarious irony is, people had been demanding less dense maps for years.

#

And when they got it... They hated it.

dim reef
#

Im not even sure what youre on about considering people praise games for detail all day every day

feral viper
#

Clearly, you weren't around during the Forum days.

dim reef
#

Time period?

forest surge
feral viper
#

I was around when Morrowind came out.

That was so toxic, I dipped from the community for years, coming back around 2009.

The specific size and density issue was a frequent topic right up until the forums were sunsetted, which was what... 2020? Ish?

Along with Multiplayer, it was pretty much a weekly request from someone new.

#

The top 3 requests were ... Bigger worlds with lower POI density. Multiplayer. And bigger cities with generic NPCs.

And We've gotten all 3 of those over the last two games.

forest surge
#

ESO is a blessing for the lore, and so many disown it immediately, shame

forest surge
feral viper
#

Depended on who was asking. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

night violet
#

I really hope BGS takes some of the Starfield criticisms, not the outright hate maybe but the honest critiques, to heart with ES VI. They seem dedicated to fix Starfield and improve it even more than previous titles.

feral viper
#

Considering they took the criticisms of Fallout 4s amazing dialogue system to heart... Eeeh...

nimble pond
#

No, not really. Skyrim was big enough for it. I did a few playthrus where I spent the entire game outside cities out in the wilderness. But if they do make it bigger, I mean I don't care, happy with or without that.

nimble pond
nimble pond
#

Starfield really wasn't that bad as some exaggerate it to be. Really, the main thing almost all mention is the proc gen making the sizeable amount of planets feel the same. But frankly, when you make that many locations in the game, I mean really, what were they expecting, every single one out of 1000+ planets to be heavily detailed and not take like 100 years to do that? Lol. Anyway, considering the overall vibe they were going for and not taking 100 years to develop it, I think proc gen was the logical approach. I mean I look up at the stars in the night sky and they generally look very proc gen'd. But if they want to spruce up the system a lil more to make all those planets stand out a little more from each other, it can only benefit. But I think originally it was just going more for how our own "space" is, which a lot of people find quite boring unfortunately, they'll pick Disney Star Wars fantasy over a real NASA documentary. Not mention it is the first title in the series, it's not like making a sequel to already established franchises such as TES or Fallout. ESO can just borrow from the already established lore foundation.

feral viper
#

Starfield has a lot of problems. But a lot of the discourse about it's problems tends to be inaccurate, focused on the wrong things, or blaming the wrong things.

And when you combine those flawed critiques with the usual toxicity of internet discourse, well...

#

Procedural Generation isn't, nor has it ever been, a problem. By definition, reality is procedurally generated, it's just an extremely complex generation system which is ongoing.

The problem is more... The variables and how they click together.

#

A secondary problem is travel times and loading screens.

The bigger the world, the longer it takes to traverse.

And the longer it takes to traverse, the more problems you encounter with balancing a respect for players time, and a need to minimise any jarring disconnects.

Starfield uses far, FAR too many loading screens. In this particular case, I DO think that it's an engine issue, but that's a whole other discussion.

The problem arises in that, doing anything in Starfield basically necessitates jumping through half a dozen loading screens just to get there. Then 30 minutes of actually playing the game, then another half dozen loading screens to get back. If you play for an hour, you spend almost as much time in a loading screen as you do actively DOING anything, even on an SSD.

And trying to go TOO big with TES6, just to make something like Sailing mechanically viable, is going to run I to the same core issues unless you address the causes.

#

That means either an engine that can better handle compartmentalising cells with seamless transitions. A way to conceal cell loading using interactive trickery. Or a brute-force world rendering that is seamless.

feral viper
#

It could definitely be done, but there's a bunch of technical hurdles that would have to be cleared first. Ones which we kinda hoped to see at least somewhat dealt with in Starfield, but...

Well, we did not

night violet
#

Honestly using the same system would be good to make a desert as big as possible if we get Hammerfell and then they can insert the rest of the locations on the massive desert. Or they could use it to give us massive Daedric releams to explore for post game content.

#

Though more diverse areas like Craglorn will need more hands on.

pale walrus
#

If I remember clearly, BGS handcrafts all the cells in its titles - at least from ES3 forward. Maybe sailing could be supported with Proc Gen. For example - when you sail out of port, at a certain distance you hit a loading screen. After, you are in the open ocean, and maybe the Proc Gen approach would be more efficient here to create different conditions for sailing - calm waters, rolling waves, storms, encounters with dangerous beasts or hostile vessels, etc etc. Then after a certain 'distance', you hit another loading screen, beyond which you enter the area near your destination (a port or seashore.)

night violet
#

Weather is a big of a sore spot for me. I hate visiting the imperial city in bad weather. There is always at least one section that doesn't synch up with the others in weather

feral viper
#

If built robust enough, you could do a lot with it. Overworld environments are the easy one, but you could even use a good procgen system to make a lot of interior environments.

eager remnant
#

Cyrodiil in Oblivion was procedurally generated. Developers then tweaked the landscape by hand to create roads, towns, ect. I don't recall hearing anything definitive from Bethesda about procedural generation in Skyrim or Fallout 4 though. A few of the remarks Howard made in interviews seemed to suggest that they may have gone back to an improved version of procedural generation to create West Virginia in Fallout 76.

feral viper
#

And we know it was used in Starfield.

#

For relatively minimalist environments like a sahara-like Desert, an active procedural generation system could be extremely valuable in simulating the shifting desert topography.

But for the most part, Procedural Generation's primary benefit is in doing a large amount of area in a once over, which you then go back over manually and populate with hand crafted elements.

#

Which is what Bethesda tends to do.

#

It CAN also be used to create plenty of engaging quests... It just needs more steps, and more variable components, to really shine.

pale walrus
#

I wonder if BGS is thinking of the Proc Gen in Starfield as the first in a series of 'experiments.' The upcoming Starfield DLC will be interesting to watch - maybe it will take a discreet step in increasing the variable components in comparison to the vanilla game and using the output and customer reaction as a learning experience. This would then hopefully be reflected in ES6 with another discreet step forward.

feral viper
#

Part of the problem with Starfield's procedural generation is... It's kinda 'dumb'. By that, I mean the criteria it seems to have used to generate so many large environments isn't really variable enough, or focused on the wrong things.

A representation of this is landing on a barren, lifeless rock with no atmosphere in a far flung system. Only to discover its got a research tower, mech factory, and giant coral reef on it.

ONCE is ok. But when that's basically every unexplored moon, it's clear there weren't enough variables in generation to actually make those places unique, or even really that interesting.

#

Now, that same sort of problem wouldn't necessarily exist in TES6, unless they use it for Oblivion Planes. And after Oblivion it's self, well...

Par for the course I guess.

pale walrus
#

I remember how nearly identical the Oblivion planes were in ES4. Ick.

eager remnant
#

My ideal would be a province about the size of Fallout 4's West Virginia. Personally I would like a bit more elbow room between important points of interest (and especially between major cities) than we have seen in the last two decades. Along with this, though, I would like Bethesda to do away with spawn points and respawn timers for hostile encounters. I would like to see the next game use a randomized system similar to the one used by the Skyrim mod Ultimate Deadly Encounters And Spawns or Genesis Unleashed, wherein enemies can appear anywhere in the game world at any time. This makes traveling familiar roads and wandering through wilderness areas a continually surprising adventure.

pale walrus
eager remnant
pale walrus
#

👍

pastel fable
feral viper
#

Not, like... Dog awesome. But still easily S-Tier animal companions.

pastel fable
feral viper
feral viper
#

TES needs more cats.

And by that, I mean Khajiit furstocks.

pale walrus
#

I also love cats. Which is why we need an ES title that thoroughly explores Elsweyr.

feral viper
#

I want a late middle aged Afliq woman who runs a tavern, and just yells orders at her various children around the shop like a stereotypical Italian mother.

#

In Ta'agra, of course.

frozen notch
#

just in two weeks we're gonna have The Elder Scrolls 30th Anniversary. 5 years ago on the 25th Anniversary there was a small video from Bethesda about tech they are going to use in TES VI

forest surge
#

Suthay, Ohmes and Tojay

pale walrus
pastel fable
pale walrus
#

🤣

spare plaza
#

As a reminder , if you have a question about #rules or moderation, please contact us via DMing @vast rain

boreal steeple
#

What's up with this channel and #skyrim-chat not allowing emote reactions?

eager remnant
boreal steeple
#

Yikes. That's quite unfortunate to have happened. 😞

frozen notch
# pale walrus Odd that there's been no hints from BGS on this. The ESO folks are celebrating t...

They mentioned it in this article
https://bethesda.net/en/article/3uVewi7MLTdhOxJki0lZfl/skyrim-special-edition-featured-community-creations

The Elder Scrolls series has entertained players for 30 years, and our Community Creators have always been a vital part of that entertainment.

Skyrim Special Edition - Featured Community Creations

March comes in like a sabre cat with this impressive collection of Skyrim Community Creations

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Same happened 5 years ago in a similar article

To help celebrate the upcoming 25th Anniversary of the Elder Scrolls series, we have a great selection of community mods to showcase this month!
Next time they mentioned it was Friday March 22nd 2019, 3 days before the Anniversary. It was on Twitter "Next week starts the celebration of The Elder Scrolls 25th Anniversary"

frozen notch
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it's Bethesda's standard modus operandi. They only reveal stuff closer to its release. I'm sure this year's celebration is going to be as big as 5 years ago

livid ingot
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Even moreso this time around. I've been watching Zenimax trademarks and there's been nothing yet despite TES VI having been in full development for a number of months now.
Guess I'll keep watching. 👀

feral viper
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They may not feel a need to rush to trademark, as they already have clear and established copyright control over The Elder Scrolls. So since no one can swoop in and steal Elder Scrolls 6, there's no real rush to file the trademark. Even if Bethesda already has a name in mind.

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Especially given that Todd Howard has already voiced regrets over how early they announced TES6.

Even if said announcement was really more of a 'Yes, we're going to make it, now stop bothering us'.

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Or, it could mean they have no clue what they're doing, and have had to readjust following the tepid reaction to Starfield.

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We don't actually know yet.

eager remnant
feral viper
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Whatever the situation with TES6 is, at this point I think the name and location are rather secondary concerns.

Even if they manage to pull off Morrowind levels of Worldbuilding, if it suffers from the same languorous mechanical design, the game is going to struggle.

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Bethesda NEEDS to update is gameplay approach and actually take the time to refine it into something that belongs in this decade. They can't rely on 20 year old approaches to the same problems.

spare anchor
feral viper
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Yes, I know, that sounds harsh, but the constructive part of the criticism is...

I genuinely think Bethesda has the elements already at play in their games to do just that. It's simply a matter of polishing them sufficiently to make them shine.

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Skyrim's Perks, Fallout 4s Dialogue, Starfield's Challenge Gating in Perks and Character Backgrounds...

Bethesda has all the tools to make a truely revolutionary RPG. Even in the wake of BG3. It just needs to use those tools better.

pale walrus
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Before everyone concludes I've lost my mind, let me explain: I remember dialogue systems from older, non-BGS games that included consequences to reputation and, as a result, further dialogue options and potential NPC interactions. There were also loops built into those dialogue systems to allow you to backtrack if you discovered you were going down a reputation path you did not actually intend. For me, such dialogue approaches add quite a bit to a game. I remember this with the original Deus Ex in particular. Many might disagree with me, but if BGS could execute successfully on such an approach, I would welcome it in ES6. There is a possibility they may be considering it - after all, a clearly announced objective of BGS is to create ES6 such that people are still playing it 10 years after release. This implies not only strong support for continued new content creation either from the Creation Club or formally released DLC, but also in terms of the base game mechanics.

feral viper
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Oh, absolutely. Bethesda too used to do that, at least to some degree, with various dialogue options in Daggerfall having various reputation impacts with half a dozen different factions. Though that quickly dropped off with Morrowind, and it's self wasn't very ... Shall we say, personable.

But that's more of a Use problem, rather than a Systemic one. Fallout 4s dialogue system is entirely capable of doing such a thing, they simply don't use it in that way. In fact, it's entirely capable of doing anything a more traditional system is, they just... Didn't.

I could speculate on why, but ultimately it's irrelevant. The choice was made, and what we got was almost universally reviled. So they reacted to that, and gave us Starfield's system. Which is arguably the single worst dialogue system in the history of RPGs.

pale walrus
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🤣 Wow! Ok, glad I haven't picked up Starfield yet.

feral viper
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There's a lot of good to be found in the game. And I've personally sunk over 100 hours into it already.

But the dialogue system is like... What if we took Oblivion's system, and made it worse?

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It's Persuasion system, though, is brilliant.

rocky void
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Anyone know if there is an official ESO discord server

livid ingot
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Just typed in Zenimax

rocky void
eager remnant
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You coud also have found ESO's Discord by clicking #official-sites here. But the Discord serves mainly as an archive for developer announcements. If you wish to communicate with other players you should use Zenimax Online's forums. You can find them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

Elder Scrolls Online
English
rocky void
feral viper
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About the only core gameplay system Bethesda doesn't already have a brilliant foundation for, actively in one of their games, is Combat. But I've prattled on about that enough in the past.

Fallout 4s Dialogue.

Skyrim's Skill&Perk leveling.

Starfield's Backgrounds, Perk Challenge Gating, and Persuasion minigame.

Bethesda's issues have never been the mechanics themselves, but rather the state those mechanics are left in. Whether it's because they don't themselves see the potential, or they try to cover too broad a spectrum and can't devote the necessary time, or they try to constantly reinvent the wheel rather than refine what they have... The systems and mechanics they have aren't bad. They're just lacking the necessary polish to really make them shine.

feral viper
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As details on how to refine such ideas...

Fallout 4s Dialogue: abandon the cinematic camera entirely, make better use of situational triggers, branching dialogue and nested option.

Skyrim's Skill&Perk system: apply Attributes to specific perks, and use aggregate Attribute scores as gating systems. Expand trees to emphasise Specialisation. Integrate Non-Skill Perk trees.

Starfields Backgrounds: use as foundation for quick-select skills. Allow for more detailed customisation like Daggerfall as an elective.

Starfield's Perk Challenge Gating: make some Perks require active challenges to be completed before being able to be purchased, to emphasise both practice and specialisation, as well as minimise repetition.

Starfield's Persuasion Minigame: it's basically perfect. At best, it could use some window dressing with option-specific responses.

pale walrus
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Yesyesyesyesyesyesyes x 1,000,000,000%, and triply so regarding the dialogue. VBThumbsUp

nimble pond
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Need stickies

dim reef
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What up

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I know this isn’t a lfg channel but i’m looking for a guild that plays eso on PS5

warm stump
dim reef
rose fjord
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When is elder scrolls 6 coming out

feral viper
pale walrus
forest surge
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We have to look at an Elder Scrolls to Know…

Proceeds to Look at Scroll

Ah my eyes!

feral viper
forest surge
pale walrus
pale walrus
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We are about 3 months shy of the SIXTH anniversary of the Elder Scrolls VI trailer. I find this quite amusing.

gray oyster
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TES VI definitely should have full mod support right on the release!

eager remnant
nimble pond
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Is it just me or does TES: Castles give off High Rock vibes?

feral viper
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It absolutely does.

feral viper
wide garnet
feral viper
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While it's location isn't directly stated that I can remember, references to conflicts between Highrock and Orsinium seemed to be a common thing to deal with, so it would probably be either NW Colovia, or somewhere in the Wrothgar Mountains themselves.

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And since Oblivion decided that Cyrodiil would just look like Highrock anyway...

pale walrus
feral viper
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Pre-orders never went live for that one. So I wasn't able to put money down

night violet
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One thing I would love for TES VI, is a more rewarding vampire or Werewolf experience if they are present

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Like being able to bite someone and make them your thrall and you can skip certain quest stages or make them have a higher opinion of you. Or make even give you discounts or a share of their profits. Could be interesting.

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Vampires are so inconsistent in elder scrolls lore. Like why do sometimes people get bitten and lose their free wills and serve their makers and some don't. It's confusing lol.

hidden herald
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There are multiple strains of vampirism, and vampirism can impact individuals differently depending on both the person and how they were infected, but that's more of a lore question. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire

Lore:Vampire

A vampire is a preternatural being, commonly believed to be a reanimated corpse, which consumes the blood of living creatures. The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living. Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts...

night violet
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Fair. I'll look through that later. I'd likely not make my first character a vampire lol. I'm more likely to make a second dedicated character to being a vampire.

feral viper
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I'd rather Vampires not just be crude ripoffs of Vampires from other settings, personally

pale walrus
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I'm not a fan of either vampirism or lycanthropy. The way both were handled in Skyrim was really fun, though. The most important thing for me is that I want to be able to cure my PC of either disease without having to jump thru too many hoops.

feral viper
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Personally, I like the general idea of how Skyrim approached Vampires, even if the execution wasn't stellar.

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Feeding weakens your Vampiric powers, but keeps you 'human'. Abstaining makes you a monster, but grants you power.

For Bal, the relationship is perfect.

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You either fail to demonstrate your will, and become a predatory monster for his amusement. Or you prove your worth, and the strength of your own will, and earn his respect. And the powers that come with that.

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It weeds out the weaklings who are undeserving of Bal's favour.

night violet
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Eh. The powers granted by being a vampire are underwhelming and really don't weigh out the disadvantages of being nerfed in the sun and being extra weak to fire.

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The vampire lord made up for that somewhat at least but that wasn't vanilla that was DLC

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And even with DLC, neither scale with your level very well

feral viper
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Oh absolutely. The execution was not Great

slow garnet
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Far from it. The execution WAS great. You're not SUPPOSED to want to be a monster. Monsters are for killing. Vampirism is an intrinsically evil thing. The player, who is supposed to be a hero, has to struggle against many disadvantages to maintain this. It's not a road to superpowerdom. It's a place where every extra power comes with a disadvantage that may actually be worse than the benefit gained. Even someone who wants to play as "evil" - which is a thing one is not SUPPOSED to want to do, for all that the game puts in the ability to do so - is struck by the disadvantages, and correctly so.

Werewolf is similar. While not quite as intriniscally evil, you become amoral - brutish - a beast. How do you maintain your humanity (or elvenity) through that? Especially when in the early parts of the skill line, you can only gain power by, SQUICK, eating actual people? (Until you get the perk that allows you to make progress from eating animals.) And you lose the ability to ever be Well Rested at night.

It's not meant to be "Press Wolf for superpower with no drawbacks".

feral viper
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At worst, Vampirism was a minor inconvenience. At best, it was actively the strongest build in the game (Oblivion).

If not wanting to be a Vampire was the point, they've utterly failed.

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Though this is TES, where the most popular faction in the entire franchise is basically the Manson Family.

forest surge
feral viper
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The Dark Brotherhood

forest surge
night violet
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Besides, being a vampire that overcomes your bloodlust and is a hero anyways is a great story.

feral viper
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But it's not a story that really fits with what a Vampire is, in TES. It's certainly doable, even in TES, but there's a lot of specific hurdles one would have to jump through.

Since Vampirism in TES is inherently linked to one of the cruelest and most sadistic entities in existence

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It's not just a curse. It's the extension of the Divine Will of Molag Bal.

night violet
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But that's were the inconsistency steps in. Look at the Ravenwatch from ESO. They are vampires that strive to keep the crimes of other vampires to a minimum.

hidden herald
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A lot of vampires try to fight against their nature, but they're small in number

night violet
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But like look at the vampires in the Laid to Rest quest in Skyrim. They are the same type of vampire as we can be, but they can make thralls and turn people into obedient vampire servants.

feral viper
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Oh, I'm aware. And I think Bethesda should dump the idea, and the generic approach to Vampires (and everything really).

Make Vampires at least have some character, and not be some vanilla romanticised schlop that every Twilight ripoff tries to capitalise on these days.

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Vampires are monsters. Treat them like monsters. Don't normalize those Vampires who resist the beast, those are rate exceptions who have managed to push back against Molag Bal.

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Mechanically though, the whole Thrall thing is basically due to the removal of permanent Charm spells.

The ethical grounds for their existence at all very tenuous from the start, but hey, this is a setting that apparently still has a gold economy when Transmute Spells exists, so clearly logistics aren't even on the table. The issue was largely gameplay driven rather than the fact that such spells entirely break the setting.

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I recall reading about a player who used various Spellcrafting power exploits in Morrowind to create permanent charm spells, and capture every named enemy in the game (including Vivec) and keep them in one of the Strongholds. Which he called his Zoo.

So the lack of being able to mechanically mind-slave someone has more to do with not letting you easily break the game, than anything.

pale walrus
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Maybe it's not a good or evil thing. Granted - vampires are 'owned' by Molag Bal, so they are driven to evil. But I would like to see some nuance. Running into a very ancient vampire or lich or other very dangerous being who has a hidden agenda could be a key element in a long questline. Such an individual might actually cross between titles, giving that person a very long and potentially intricate story as well.

forest surge
# feral viper Vampires are monsters. Treat them like monsters. Don't normalize those Vampires ...

I mean the Ravenwatch are normalized to an extent among High Rock, specifically the Nobility, those in the know. Vampires as it stands struggle with the bloodlust and some just outright enjoy it, the Ravenwatch is more an entity of Vampires that have people who give them blood willingly, they try to eliminate any Vampires causing trouble, Verandis See’s the Vampiric Curse they have as something that can be used to benefit the People of Tamriel. And honestly he has proven that, but Vampires can ultimately never be seen as anything but monsters except by certain individuals.

feral viper
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And like a lot of minor things, I disagree with that decision in ESO. But they had to cram in that Vampire mechanic for the sake of inclusion, and ultimately the world has suffered for it.

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TES has tried to be Anne Rice and Vampire the Masquerade at the same time. And it's Vampires are frankly really bad at doing either.

Better to just shelve the whole thing and come back to it later, rather than keep half assing it like we've been getting since day one.

Because Vampires in TES are about as interesting as a drop of water.

forest surge
feral viper
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They COULD be really interesting, with the basic foundation that they have. But no one has ever really done anything interesting with them.

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It's not a matter of conscience, it's a matter of considering what the curse is, how it behaves, and then how people will react to that.

The 'Standard' vampire, like the Ravenwatch simply don't fit with the driving force in Vampirism: Molag Bal. The whole idea behind that sort of Vampirism is entirely antithetical to what Bal is.

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It's too easy to control, too easy to regulate, too submissive in its expression.

It's like Bal created it on an off day and just never touched it up afterwards.

forest surge
feral viper
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They put the thought into associating Vampirism directly with Molag Bal, and as usual out none of the thought into what that means or how it would be reflected.

feral viper
forest surge
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Idk, I personally don’t see the need to go all in on the curse having to adhere to Bal’s will, it’s already an expectation that those who turn will give into the bloodlust, that’s what he wants, but some Mortals prefer to give the guy the Finger and reject it.

feral viper
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His Skyrim quest is a perfect example of what Bal is. He seals you in, and demands you and the Vigilant kill eachother.

There's no out. There's no way to escape. You HAVE to submit. You HAVE to kill for him. What you do with yourself after, that's your choice, but HE takes your agency from you, he violates your free will and forces you to dance to his tune.

forest surge
feral viper
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Bal would never create something that Can be ignored. Something which can be resisted without consequence. And personal discomfort, isn't a consequence.

Vampirism, where you feed to maintain the facade of the humanity you've lost, or resist to preserve that humanity and are cast out for it? That's Bal to a tee.

You either become a monster in spirit, or people judge you as one in body.

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Being able to resist, and still hide in plain sight, or move about without consequence?

That's just weak. And Bal HATES weakness.

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Vampirism should feel like a violation, ESPECIALLY in TES. And yet, it isn't. It's an inconvenience.

forest surge
feral viper
forest surge
feral viper
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It's by SUBMITTING that they go to Bal. Azura's champions escape that fate by sealing themselves in before they can harm anyone.

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They ensure that they never feed, never become a monster, and for that they return to Azura.

On top of that, we know that the fate of souls in TES is more about what YOU believe, rather than any specific deals or rules.

So if you THINK infection sends your soul to Coldharbour, that's where you're probably gonna end up. But it's not a sure thing.

forest surge
feral viper
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Because ultimately it's more what they believe, than what anyone else wants. If you firmly believe that your soul is your own, Bal wouldn't have any claim.

Outside of the Soul Shatter, anyway. That seems to let him directly seize souls.

forest surge
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This is related but Yeah there was a Loremasters Archive that made the case that Hircine won’t own your soul despite being a Lycanthrope but the way it sounded was more that they are just believing it’s one’s choices rather than decision as a Lycanthrope that will determine where they end up.

feral viper
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Overall though, Vampires in TES are thematically clunky, mechanically uninteresting, and narratively stale.

ESO hasn't managed to do anything interesting with them, and just repeats the same tired tropes over and over again because no one has any clue what to do with them.

As such, they might as well just be tossed on the pile of other irrelevant things, and left there until someone can take the time to actually integrate them in any meaningful way.

forest surge
forest surge
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Vampires didn’t really get any major Lore besides the Dark Heart.

feral viper
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Faith has a way of convincing people of things that aren't even remotely accurate.

So I see it the opposite. The problem is, you believe that they claim your soul. And that lingering belief erodes your confidence in your own ability to escape that fate.

The choice is ultimately yours. But THEY have convinced you that you can't escape it, so you can't.

forest surge
feral viper
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And that self-defeating faith is what ultimately damns you.