elder-scrolls-general-chat

[opaque pumice]

Wrong!

Pain is temporary but the glory of Rome is forever!

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/julius-caesar-hbo-rome-roman-empire-gif-18340881

I wish the Empire was more Rome and less... Oblivion

[opaque pumice]

In Skyrim?

[feral viper]

In general

[opaque pumice]

Cause In Skyrim it was pretty “Rome” all the way down to the many Gods

[feral viper]

Eeeeh... It was cosplaying Rome..

[forest surge]

What about ESO?

[opaque pumice]

That's a fair assessment.

[feral viper]

Largely the same, unfortunately. Though a little better at representing the political infigihting that characterised the Empire.

As a deeper issue, it's a symptom of basically writing things you don't actually understand, and it being glaringly obvious to those who do.

Very few pieces of media including Rome, actually present a remotely accurate image of Rome

So it's hardly a uniquely TES fault

[opaque pumice]

Yeah but even to this day we don't fully understand "Rome" either, alot of things have been lost in time.

Except for the glory, that is forever 😛

[tardy tiger]

ESO really hasn't done anything other then visuals. I doubt they'll contradict Oblivions version of them

[forest surge]

I mean there really isn’t much to contradict considering there isn’t much to them

[dim reef]

I wonder in elder scrolls 6 if there’s gonna be werewolves and vampires

[tardy tiger]

That's kinda the point. They've not really done much with them.
Gold Coast focued on the Dark Brotherhood
Blackwood focused on the Dark Prince of Destruction Mehrunes Dagon as he looks to bring his love of destruction to nirn.. again.

The problem on the Imperial side of things is their stuff is locked behind books which is useless when it never makes it out of said books.

[forest surge]

I will bet 1000 Gold that Imperial Culture will get it’s due. I’m an optimist.

[pale walrus]

Guaranteed there's gonna be were-critters of possibly more than one type, along with bloodsuckers. Truth be told, I don't care for either of them. But many people do, so the devs will build them out for ES6. NOTE: despite the fact I don't find them interesting, the way both were handled in Skyrim was pretty good - especially the vamps.

A smart move for the devs in ES6: make both the thieves guild and DB strong and very, very involved in the goings-on in Hammerfell. Think about it: The Imperials are in a very weakened state. Confronting the Thalmor directly is out of the question. But since the two are existential enemies, it would make sense for the Imperium to reconstitute the Blades (perhaps thru the Penitus Oculatus, perhaps independently) and also use mercenaries extensively in the form of the TG and DB. The latter two could gather intelligence, conduct sabotage and execute hits on the Thalmor in Hammerfell. Just for fun, it would be nice to see the Morag Tong involved in some capacity as well - maybe on behalf of the Dunmer collecting their own intelligence, or perhaps senior members hired on a contract basis to help train the new Blades or Penitus Oculatus members in some of the finer points of espionage and assassination. After all: didn't the OSS work with the Mafia in Italy during WW2 and then the CIA work with the Mafia in America against Cuba during the 60's?

[feral viper]

The Dark Brotherhood is almost extinct as of Skyrim though, and the Thieves Guild isn't really an international power, but rather a collection of like-named criminal organisations localised in various regions.

Thieves Guilds in general could fit with Hammerfell, but the Brotherhood? Not as much.

[crude mural]

hello friends. Me and my dad want to play elder scrolls online together, I bought blackwood and he has valenwood, can we play together?

[feral viper]

In many zones, yes. I'm not sure about the specific expansion zones later on, but all the core zones would be open to you to play together..

[dim reef]

When do you think we’ll get more information about elder scrolls 6

[feral viper]

2-3 years.

[dim reef]

By the nine divines that’s too long at least give us a taste of ale next year

[eager remnant]

They have most likely only begun full time work on TES VI this year. It's a little early to expect information next year.

[dim reef]

Wish I could just cryo sleep

[feral viper]

You can.

It's the waking you up part of Cryonics that's the problem.

[dim reef]

Wish it could

[dim reef]

Who thinks that they should of made elder scrolls 6 before starfield

[light bolt]

Starfield should have been made before F76, if anything

[dim reef]

That’s a good point

[light bolt]

lets hope ES6 will alteast be something different than whatever bethesda has made with both these games

[dim reef]

I know I want more adventure

[light bolt]

as a speculation, people all over the net are guessing Hammerfell is the next province for ES6

and then looking at Starfield ship building
A part of me is hoping we might see Hammerfell and the open ocean its next to and we basically have ships to customize

So we are getting a land gameplay (like skyrim) and and then an ocean gameplay like Starfield's ships but like on the waters

Just wishful thinking on my part but would be neat

[dim reef]

That would be cool

[dim reef]

If I could wish for a super power it would be eternal youth so we wouldn’t worry about age in games like elder scrolls 6

[safe swan]

They need to add a fascist group in tes 6

[dim reef]

Yeah I believe it’s going to be the thalmor

[safe swan]

I hope they add a beach house or a cliff house that you can buy by one of the major holds

And I hope they don't add a settlement system because I majorly dislike the ones bethesda makes

[scenic timber]

I just hope they actually iterate on their systems and show improvements to their game. I want a "better" game, improving on factions, magic and combat systems, RPG growth and customization, improved crafting, and hopefully they hire a good UI designer.

[forest surge]

Oh It’s gonna happen

It’s a Staple now by this point

[slim berry]

Settlements haven’t really been a part of Elder Scrolls games

[forest surge]

They weren’t part of Fallout either and look what happened, regardless I have no doubt it will probably happen.

[azure echo]

Has anyone heard anything about an Oblivion Remaster?

[eager remnant]

An Oblivion remaster has not been officially announced.

[nimble pond]

That and the trend when looking back on like player housing and how it has slowly progressed in each beth title. Problem is we haven't had a proper TES game since ohh.. 2011?

[forest surge]

I mean getting the Materials to build a Home was essentially in Skyrim in terms of a prototype phase

[nimble pond]

Let's say it drops 2028, since we already know it's going to be a couple more years. That's like 17 years since skyrim

They had a settlement system in I think oblivion or morrowind? Someone said before. Not nearly as advanced, but they been dabbling with that sort of feature for a long time and growing it

[glossy turtle]

Hi guys. What is a good build in ESO for Battlemage? In every fantasy games I love playing with magic and sword/axe, recently I returned to ESO with my Nord character (ow I have 23lvl) So what is good build for Battlemage in your opinion?

[nimble pond]

It's curious what the map will be like. I mean you look at f76 map, eso map (zenimax), starfield map. Do they keep the trend and do one province at a time? Thinking back to the previously done provinces, how do you even make those bigger to match these newer games by them? Do you go for just making it feel like an entire country in size or hammer down on filling it with so many features it feels like a big game with all the things to do. Do you add more realms and planes, so it's like multiple maps to explore, but in one province?

[eager remnant]

This is a channel forthe single-player Elder Scrolls games made by Bethesda Game Studios. If you have any questions about Elder Scrolls Online feel free to ask them on the ZeniMax Online forums. You can find them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[glossy turtle]

aa so there is no ESO channel. Should be but ok, thanks 😄

[light bolt]

Oh ive been curious about what the future games after Starfield would be like

looking at the teaser trailer for ES6, there just a rocky area and a bit of the sea
so looking at the whole proc generation thing, which im hoping ISNT going to be the case for ES6 (and also for F5)... I'd like to think its either the province's scale would be bigger than Skyrim' scale.

Meaning, its going to be (Let's pretend it is Hammerfell in this case) Hammerfell is going to get a much more "detailed" map and prob more open "space" between dungeons, cities, POI's etc. compared to Skyrim and Fallout 4 but double the amount of locations than prev ES games.

The other thought I have is either:

• as I mentioned earlier, we might get a just a regular province in a similar scale as Skyrim's map BUT with settlement building (Fallout 4) and ship building (Starfield), we will get a land gameplay and a sea gameplay.
• the other one that Im assuming, is that MAYBE its not just one province this time

again all speculation on my part but after playing Starfield, IF Bethesda pushes themselves a bit more this time.....well, ya never know with them lol

[river cloak]

Elder scroll 6 I want different adoptable children of different races

[dim reef]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout4-gif-5924860

It could worse they could add him to ES6.

[dim reef]

Well going by the teaser video it does look like the area where Rihad in Hammerfell is.

[light bolt]

I dont really know much of the locations outside Skyrim since Skyrim was my first bethesda game

but yeah, a lot of people online are speculating Hammerfell is likely the next province that ES6 will be focused on

I am hoping we also might be getting more than just Hammerfell but we will know soon enough, i guess

[hidden herald]

In ES6 we could have procedurally generated oblivion pocket realms, since there are endless of them. Then, we can have an NPC chase us down and give us a quest to go save someone from them.

[light bolt]

Oblivion 2, you say?

[dim reef]

Only a guess but I think it might be a continuation of the problems with Cyrodiil and the Aldmeri Dominion as the Dominion did invade Hammerfell.

[light bolt]

oooooh, interesting
ES6 is possible to be a multi-province game?
and focused on an Aldmeri war?

that be cool

[coral spoke]

That's a possibility, but as each successive game has moved to a different era, I suspect it may well be after the White Gold Concordat has been properly settled.

[light bolt]

Skyrim 2, you say? lol

[coral spoke]

Lots of people making jokes about this; don't give Todd ideas! He's already milked Skyrim so much, that even the dragons are emaciated.

[light bolt]

haha in one interview he did say that someone should make a sequel to Skyrim

all jokes aside, Im sure he and Bethesda would like to move onto a different timeline way past Skyrim at this point lol

[dim reef]

Or it could be just before or right at the onset of the invasion as the events in Redguard took place before Daggerfall.

[coral spoke]

True

[dim reef]

Not to mention Morrowind and Oblivion were only 6yrs apart. So it's possible that the events in ES6 could be simultaneous with the events in Skyrim or only a few yrs apart.

[nimble pond]

You can also try the official ESO Discord server. Then scroll down to "community-discord" channel. They have an entire list of ESO community discord servers that could better answer all kinds of questions like that.

[nimble pond]

Yea and not just more locations, but more location types.

They could essentially treat the deep ocean like space in Starfield. Meaning vast, but proc gen. And ofc you'd get a ship. With Starfield they kinda did both. The settled systems is pretty involved in detail whilst the rest of space is massive, but more proc gen.

Typically they don't like to add "vehicles" cause they always talk about wanting the player to walk and explore that way. But they literally have a horse in TES games for land so yea.. But if they add another plane or something where clearly a vehicle would be needed, like the deep ocean, then yeah I think it's logical to consider having ship in the game for that.

So again kinda same scenario as Starfield. You get the typical highly detailed main area map and then you can a way bigger proc gen area and a vehicle to explore it with.

[light bolt]

yessir

[light bolt]

hmmm, I suppose they will still bring in a "lite" proc generation in their future games, just enough to have more "content" within the emptiness of the map(s)

and yeah, if such a thing as "ocean" exploration does become a thing in ES6, i guess a bit of proc gen wouldnt hurt

[nimble pond]

If they do, I really hope they include diving expeditions to explore. Then can you not only explore the deep ocean, but under it's surface too that's a whole other plane to explore, even if limited to diving expeditions.

[light bolt]

Elder Scrolls 6: Underwater?

lol yea, that would be dope to add, apart from the typical land maps we have played though in prev games

[coral spoke]

As long as there's no feckin' race like the Gungan! 🤣

[nimble pond]

As for more than one province, possible. But they may also just include other islands or landmasses further out in the ocean, but closer to the province.

[nimble pond]

Possible. Since there was a severe lack of, if not backwards, water exploration in Starfield, lol. Even with a planet that is like all water, lol.

[coral spoke]

If there was underwater exploring in Starfield, you know damn well the first thing people will do is drown the adoring fan!

[nimble pond]

Sharkbait

[dim reef]

I wish I could just throw him in a stew pot.

[coral spoke]

Best thing to do with him though at present is to take him to Mars and yeet him off Olympus Mons.

[eager remnant]

It is worth pointing out that procedural ganeration is not the same as random generation. The landscape of Cyrodiil in Oblivion was procedurally generated (and then modified by hand). And it is my understanding that they did something very similar with West Virginia in Fallout 76 and areas touched by the main quest in Starfield. I think it is safe to assume they will continue this approach in TES VI.

[nimble pond]

It'd be interesting to see all the aquatic life out in the deep ocean too. You know, not just river betties 😪

[dim reef]

Fish people yummy.

Need tartar sauce

[light bolt]

Yea, i suppose at this point, anything they have done in prev games, will be continued in their future games

Looks like oceans and possible multi-provinces or islands might likely be next on to-do list for Bethesda lol

[nimble pond]

From space pirates, to sea pirates haha

[nimble pond]

Parallel time is interesting. Like you have Hammerfell as it stands and you have the alter outcome where Hammerfell lost and Thalmor now rule the land and built their own cities. The two (maybe more than two) times get twisted up and ultimately you decide the future from which of these outcomes survives in your own time.

[feral viper]

Indeed. It's also worth noting that the physical universe is, in fact, Procedurally Generated. It's rules just tend to be more complex, and run over far longer timescales, than the simulated models used in video games.

So there's nothing wrong with Procedural Generation as a concept. In fact, a robust enough Procgen system would be able to do just as much, if not more, than any amount of hand crafting.

It becomes a little more complicated when applying naturalistic Procgen to a map you've already hand crafted though, as... Well... Tamriel's climates and environments make zero sense. So you can't really just take a real model and slap it on there, and end up with decent results..

[safe swan]

Just another nazzem

[dim reef]

I think Nazzem was less annoying as he didn't hunt you down like Preston.

[feral viper]

I didn't actually find either of them to be annoying. Maybe I can just block out that kind of annoyance easily.

Ulfric, on the other hand, annoys me in ways I haven't been annoyed since Ulysses in Lonesome Road...

[dim reef]

Interesting Ulfric never bothered me but I also grew up with someone just like him.

[pale walrus]

Some of us are 'in the know' already.....but we can't tell......... 😉 (j/k)

[pale walrus]

What about submarines? Yes, that sounds crazy. But maybe the rourken dwemer made something like that and you could repair and reconfigure it. This would open up interesting possibilities in terms of moving covertly, piracy, exploring the oceans and such.

[pale walrus]

There's Skyblivion being done independently, but I don't know about the status

[light bolt]

A submarine ay?
it being Dwemer most likely makes sense but i dont think Bethesda will do it
If Ocean exploration is going to be a thing in ES6 then i can see mods making submarines a thing right after... like the air ship mod for skyrim lol

[pale walrus]

A potentially good move would be to start with Hammerfell and gradually import regions of High Rock thru DLC. Also, the islands to the west, including the Ra Gada homeland (what's left of it at least), could be imported in that way. If Bethesda wants ES6 to have a ten year lifespan, they need to provide DLC on a steady basis. There's other things they can do as well - open up the oceans and the underground for exploration, move back in time (that would be truly amazing - going back to when the Rourken were still around or even farther back to when the Nibenese, orcs and Ayleid competed for control of Hammerfell/The Deathlands), etc...

[pale walrus]

I think it was ES2 which was Hammerfell and HR together. Frankly it sounds like Bethesda is thinking about taking another crack at this in a very updated version.

[light bolt]

IF hammerfell is the supposed next focused province
then yeah, it seems they wanna go back to it with their new engine
Im just hoping we get more than just another province

hence why im speculating that we might get part of the sea next to Hammerfell as part of the world map, seeing as we most likely have settlement building and shipbuilding

[feral viper]

I'm very much against two provinces.

[light bolt]

its either we are getting "two skyrims" in one or the scale of "Hammerfell" will be bigger than the scale of skyrim... meaning more open spaces for more POIs and stuff

[pale walrus]

Agreed. Putting HF and HR together like in ES2 would be fun. They need to do a proper job with both, though. So breaking it up into HF and then gradually pulling in HR thru multiple DLC might give them the chance to not mess up. But HF should be fantastic from the start - after all, they've had since 2011 to craft it, and there's no excuse for not having the best ES ever (not just fun gameplay, but super rich lore - they stumbled on this rather seriously in Skyrim.)

[feral viper]

And I vastly prefer option B

[light bolt]

yup I agree, given the "scale" of starfield
we should for the most part be getting a much bigger "feel" than prev ES games (same with Fallout)

Although, if they can expand the world map, I wouldnt mind having both Hammerfell and HighRock available from the start, imo

[light bolt]

yeah, its def one possibility to happen

[feral viper]

As it stands, the Skyrim scale is between 1:16,000, and one 1:320,000. So there's ample room to expand the scale without having to go into multiple provinces.

Which would bring with it a whole bunch of other problems.

[light bolt]

oh for sure

just....knowing how Bethesda do their thing and what they have done currently
I just feel like... its prob best to see many options that they could go with their future games, ya know... to reduce dissapointment lol

[feral viper]

Disappointment is a given in gaming, IMO. Ultimately I prefer to judge something on what it is, rather than what it could have been.

I'll still complain either way, though.

[forest surge]

Disappointment is even on games that appeal to many, which is why part of me learns to not really bother when someone doesn’t like something.

[light bolt]

Haha i agree
and yes, these days ive pretty much lowered my expectations with games i know ill sink hours into, so far, its been good
and id rather play the game first before I say its good or not

also becuase I dont play a lot of games these days so im good where Im at

[light bolt]

Yup, pretty much this
after being disappointed with Dragon Age Inquisition on release, ive pretty much lower my expectations with any games I played then on

its why im still kickin it with bethesda still, coz of what their games can become years later haha

[forest surge]

And I think that’s generally what I dislike with some folk, that your expected to dislike a game because they didn’t like it.

That you should be singing one devs praises over the other.

[feral viper]

Well, there's also the issue of... Disappointment doesn't mean unenjoyable.

I was disappointed in Starfield, in some ways. I still love the game for what it IS though.

[light bolt]

god the amount of years ive been hating against certain devs and big names that I wasted on

... now, im like... am I in the mood for Skyrim, Fallout 4 or something else
safe to say, im in a hppier stance with games and its fun to talk to folks about their experiences in these games and what the next games will be like every now and then

[feral viper]

As an entirely aside, someone go back in time and tell younger me that their High Elf Colour scheme constitutes torture in 30 different countries...

Two of the primary colours in it do not go over top of eachother well... so not matter what i prime it in, it's agony.

[light bolt]

[forest surge]

Yeah that’s me to, I also see it as the start of something great to expand on.

[feral viper]

Indeed.

But, for my part, when I talk about these games in particular I try to set clear boundaries for what I would like or think would benefit the franchise, while also trying to keep in mind realistic goals for a COMPANY. Which has budgets, time constraints and goals of their own.

Which probably makes me a little more... Forgiving of missteps, and less prone to wishlisting.

[light bolt]

yessir

[feral viper]

Which is a large part of why I want 1 Province, rather than 2.

Because I recognise that they have limited resources and time, and the fleshed out cultures that I personally want to see would better see those resources focused on one group at a time..

[spare thorn]

Hey everyone

[forest surge]

Makes me a bit excited for the DLC as that’s basically when all time and effort is focused more on a singular thing rather than a wide variety of things when making a game

[feral viper]

Heya

[spare thorn]

What's everyone talking about

[feral viper]

Yeah, and they can be much more focused in their content than the whole base game can be.

[forest surge]

Examples being ESO

[feral viper]

'The Future' really. Indistinct ideas and hopes about the future of the franchise and how to approach it..

[spare thorn]

I see

[forest surge]

And considering I hear they plan to support Starfield longer than previous releases it has me more excited, as that could also mean the same for future releases like TESVI and Fallout V

[spare thorn]

I don't really have much in mind for the next Elder Scrolls. I just hope it's as enjoyable as the last one

[feral viper]

I have ... Oodles in mind. But Discord is unfortunately not the best format to go onto a whole lot of depth about it...

[light bolt]

I have a feeling Starfield might go beyond ES6 and maybe to a point of the release of the next fallout game.. again jus speculation on my part but I can see Starfield not getting a sequel for a veeeerrry long time

[spare thorn]

Bring back calipers

[forest surge]

Considering the wait between Skyrim and VI, that’s not unbelievable

[light bolt]

yea... personally, i think if F76 never happened we would have already had ES6 in development and Starfield prob would have its 2nd or 3rd expansion out by now but.... well ya know

[spare anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-staring-cat-cat-staring-cat-stare-facetime-gif-26137754

[spare thorn]

Dang

[paper prism]

I'm assuming this is the best place for somewhat off-topic Elder Scrolls... The ElderScrolls sub made me laugh today. Apparently TES:VI will be set in the Illinois Bay region 😂 (for non-Americans, it's where Chicago is)

[spare thorn]

The destination of those who take the last Oblivion Gate

[coral spoke]

At least it won't be Ohio!

[spare thorn]

That's the expansion

Followed of course by the next one: Florida

[coral spoke]

Florida's ok as long as you just go to the Everglades and Cape Canaveral. Anywhere else, you're likely to run into the extras from Deliverance

[spare thorn]

Me fending off the annual Floridan slaughterfish invasion

[paper prism]

NGL, considering the chaos of Black Marsh during the Oblivion Crisis, Florida would be perfect

[spare thorn]

Exactly

[light bolt]

and Skyrim is just Canada who lost their syrup to the Empire

[coral spoke]

I'm a Brit, but have been to the States many times. Definite vibes of Murkmire in Florida.

[spare thorn]

Darn Elves

[nimble pond]

I was really hoping for a controllable mini-sub in Starfield, but alas.. it did not happen 😪

[forest surge]

Well considering space was the focus, submarines wouldn’t really have a place

[light bolt]

dont give up hope yet
if bethesda wont do it... modders will lol

[forest surge]

But Ship Combat for Bethesda was pretty new and honestly considering they never had aerial combat of any kind where you are in control prior, it gives me hope for Water Ship combat in VI possibly

[nimble pond]

Forgiving? This is not the Terical I know.. Who are thee imposter! 😋

Who do you think will take Todd's spot when he retires?

[spare thorn]

Can I try

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/hunger-games-katniss-everdeen-jennifer-lawrence-volunteer-tribute-gif-4254905

[nimble pond]

I just hope the new norm is not gonna become 15+ years for the next title in each franchise 😪 and F5 is already looking to follow suit since TES6 is still a long ways away itself.
Like if you want to make a game last a decade that's great, but don't let it become the excuse for increasing release gaps of a franchise series.. life is short and we all get old so quickly.

[light bolt]

Yeah, would be nice to see what other kind of franchises Bethesda can come up with but... if games take forever to make
.... well, guess we will know in time

[nimble pond]

What, no Cajuns and Louisiana bayous? 😄

[spare thorn]

This is what happens when the Hist decides if Oblivion can have a crisis then so can it

[nimble pond]

I know, it was more for the desire of exploring new kinds of flora and species, which would go with the whole explore new planets kind of deal. But it's entirely possible they didn't want to put all their eggs in the basket all at once and save something fresh to bring to TES6.

[nimble pond]

Don't you put that voodoo on me, Hist

[spare thorn]

All of Tamriel will become the Argonian’s swamp

[livid ingot]

Does seem like it might be the new norm, considering Todd has said he wants the next game to last a decade

^ speculation ^

^ no official statement has been given ^

[nimble pond]

Unofficially official?

[livid ingot]

Just trying to be as clear as possible 😩

[nimble pond]

It's that official news, that's not actually official, but we know you know that we know it's official without saying it's official.
Crystal-clear? 🔮 🥠

[nimble pond]

Yea they added NG+ as well. Never rule out new things coming or certain patterns changing/adapting. It's a balance of both really. Building on the existing lore whilst adding new lore both based on existing lore and then also some that is entirely new on it's own. Same goes for things like game features, mechanics and all that.

[feral viper]

A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought you could do it. But games like Sea of Thieves, and Blackwake showed me that some degree of first person naval combat was possible...

And then Bethesda goes and does ship combat in Starfield. Which is just sim-y enough to be immersive, but not so much as to be cumbersome.

And works way better in both first and third person than their melee system in TES ever has.

[forest surge]

It was a huge moment when it was revealed because they never did anything that was necessarily the player playing a different type of gameplay outside your character.

[feral viper]

Yeah. And to quote Kain...

The first bitter taste of that terrible illusion: Hope.

[forest surge]

Naval Combat in TES would be pretty huge.

[forest surge]

Probably the Sailing area would be West of Hammerfell, probably have Stros M’kai as one if many different locations around there.

I don’t know if they would have us Sailing the Bjoulsae River north of Hammerfell.

[feral viper]

I think it depends on the scale being used... If they really wanted to up the scale, the Bjoulsae could easily be used as comparable to the Danube.

[forest surge]

There could also be plenty of Uncharted Islands that were deemed unimportant to, to add to Tamriel’s Map.

[feral viper]

Yeah. A Hammerfell centric game could have a lot of room for sailing activities. Especially if it included traveling to what's left of Yokuda at some point.

[forest surge]

Yokuda would probably be DLC

[feral viper]

The biggest problem with sailing as a gameplay element in TES is combat specifically.

Since... Well, balistae and catapults were technically used in naval warfare, the period before the invention of Gunpowder was heavily, HEAVILY boarding focused. Even moreso than the Age of Sail.

So, you're practically necessitating introducing firearms into the setting proper.

[forest surge]

You also have Spellcasters as a factor

[feral viper]

True, there are ways to approach it without cannon. But... You're pushing a very divisive line either way

[forest surge]

Don’t Cannon’s already exist?

[feral viper]

They've been mentioned in a book of jokes, and shown on a Legends card.

[forest surge]

Yet we don’t have Firearms of the conventional kind, kinda odd huh?

[feral viper]

I genuinely think that's because Bethesda is afraid to push that line.

Guns, and Medieval-Stasis, don't typically go hand in hand in Fantasy. Despite Firearms being a major element in the mid to late Medieval period..

That said, I am 100% in the pro-fireams crowd. In fantasy fiction at least.

[forest surge]

The funny thing is that they make it clear the Dwemer were more ahead of everyone to, Firearms probably wouldn’t be seen as necessary when you can have Spellcasters who can do things better.

[feral viper]

Indeed. Though, I think that's too easy a well to tap. If make it Yokudan tech, not Dwemeri

Make it the old, alchemical mainstay of Ancient Yokuda, before the Sword Singing took over. And have the Redguard working to dig their ancient arts out of the relic vaults that they brought with them during their flight from Yokuda.

[spare thorn]

My stance whenever I write guns into my own fantasy storied is that they’re crutches

It takes years of study to master magic to a point of being a living nuke. But any soldier can pick up a Rifle of Firebolt and get in the fight with comparatively less training.

So that's how I'd do it
Like staffs but
Cooler by nature

[feral viper]

A later gun, yes. The early ones? Not a chance.

[spare thorn]

I own a musket for home defense. Just as the Eight Divines intended.

[feral viper]

People see Firearms in their clearly defined, mostly sophisticated Musket stage... But those only came about after a thousand years of development.

I'm talking Handgonne, barely more than a cast iron tube you pack explosives in and point, hoping it doesn't explode in your hands and kill you.

And the stuff you get ONE shot off with, and then drop for your sword.

[spare thorn]

True
But I don't imagine that would be very fun to use in a game setting

Unless it was made ungodly powerful

There's also the fact that since everyone expects guns to be, at least, the musket type, people would write it off rather quickly thanks to the common idea

[feral viper]

I'm thinking, a solid Alpha Strike weapon. Something you use at the start of a fight to take out a single target (hopefully) but then have to swap to something else.

[forest surge]

In this world there may have been an idea to for all we know and people could have made counter arguments to even having such a thing.

[feral viper]

But that's part of a whole other conceptual problem that RPG players need to deal with...

[spare thorn]

Sadly many people don't want guns in their fantasy games

[forest surge]

Pillars of Eternity has it

[spare thorn]

Cool

[feral viper]

Easy enough to explain with the mass institutionalisation of Magic in Tamriel, and the difficulty maintaining and rebuilding the complex infrastructure to produce firearms upon reaching Tamriel.

So the Yokudans basically stuck them in the back of a Vault under their cities and left them to gather dust.

[forest surge]

Would be seen as pointless with Magic being such a big thing, in Pillars of Eternity World of Eora, Magic doesn’t seem as prevalent, it’s there but there definitely isn’t a big focus on it as much as there could be.

[feral viper]

Yeah. At least, a lot of their early forms.

A Firebolt is easier and more reliable than a Handgonne.

[forest surge]

So really Firearms existing in that world would make more sense because Magic isn’t common enough among the masses to use aside from select individuals gifted with that potential.

[spare thorn]

Guns either need to be OP or some sort of alternative to a harder system to be engaging I think

In terms of ES anyway

[feral viper]

But, if you've suddenly had the magical instruction infrastructure of the Continent implode, revealing systemic problems in the Mages Guild's monopolization of Magic to have been highly fragile, and then the rise in Anti-Elf sentiments...

Suddenly, other options seem more attractive to explore.

But it's definitely not something you jump into all at once. You have to build up to it. Start with Cannon. Then next game introduce a Handgonne

Before long, you've got Empire Gunlines supporting Rieksgaurd

deep breath

I wanted to post a Warhammer Gif, but Dyno is slapping my fingies.

https://tenor.com/view/empire-vs-lizardmen-total-war-warhammer-sacred-kroxigor-the-black-lions-war-wagon-helblaster-gif-15795940

There we go.

Warhammer it's self is a prime example of the fact you very much CAN have a fantasy setting with Knights, Wizards, Monsters and sophisticated firearms..

[forest surge]

Man it’s only Like Two Months and a half away until ESO’s next chapter reveal

[feral viper]

I'm curious to see it, yeah

[nimble pond]

Magic cannons? 🤔 That would be intriguing. Just for one example, perhaps launching much, much larger fireballs than any mage possibly could be hand/staff. I'd love to use a sharp battering ram and cut a ship in half, though I'm sure you could also board and loot/capture ships similar to what you can do in Starfield.

[nimble pond]

Could also use steam-powered ones and other methods besides gunpowder.

[nimble pond]

Personally I'd like to see some steam-powered ranged machines (or some other cleverly engineered methods) added to the mix of ranged combat. I love bows/crossbows, but I'm getting really bored of that being the only ranged option without using magic spells. Thrown weapons need to make a comeback too. Maybe some bladed boomerang type deal or hovering effects. Throwing nets, could be fun for hunting too. Extended-range and stretch-range weapons too as a middle-ground such as whips.

[slim berry]

Steam-powered ranged machines kind of falls under the dwemer ballistas, right?

[nimble pond]

So far, but I was thinking some intellectual engineer breaks thru with invention of something more handheld and shoots projectiles besides arrows 🙄 like spiked balls, ouch. Even just the spikes part would be a nice change. Hot iron spikes heated up before they fly out, not only piercing, but also melting thru and burning whatever you hit.

[feral viper]

Steam has been pretty solidly established as Dwemer in TES, and would take some more design to really establish an alternative.

And as I said, I'd try to avoid tapping the Dwemer well on something like that. Mostly because you can only beat a dead horse so muchm

[nimble pond]

I mean why not use the dwemer technology? It's just rotting down in the depths.

[feral viper]

Because, writing wise, always going back to the Dwemer well is stale and boring.

You've got a whole tapestry of cultures and histories and inspirations to draw from. Making everything Dwemer quickly becomes a trope.

It's like every time D&D taps that Netheril well.

You're missing out on Imaskar, the Giants, the Creator Races, Time Traveling Mind Flayers, the Aboleth, etc.

[nimble pond]

How does one dwemer ranged weapon suddenly make everything dwemer though.

[wide garnet]

It’s not “rotting”, it just hasn’t been discovered yet.

[feral viper]

It doesn't, directly. But we've had Dwemer Skyships, Dwemer Robots, Dwemer Trains. It's another piece of tech being attributed to Dwemer simply because of the perception that the Dwemer are the only advanced culture in Tamriel..

[nimble pond]

And it doesn't have to be dwemer, I'm saying some scholar studied it's mechanics and in-turn made this new weapon.

[feral viper]

Thank Vehk that an Orc invented the Printing Press

[nimble pond]

Nah man, I didn't want it because I thought they were more advanced. That thought never even came across my mind.

[feral viper]

Maybe not. And that's fair.

[nimble pond]

My point is, more ranged weapons besides bow/crossbow.. Melee has selection. Magic has selection. And (physically-ranged weapons) ranged.. meh.

[feral viper]

And I agree. I just don't think the Dwemer are the well to tap for that.

Especially when we have a heavily ottoman influences people right there for us.

If the Ottomans are good for one thing it's Gunpowder.

[forest surge]

And it’s already been established they were very intelligent and were the ones who held the secrets to making there Steam Powered Technology work to begin with, the only one who came closer to that would be Sotha Sil and even then his is in a Miniaturized Clockwork City.

[nimble pond]

I see nothing wrong with making one handheld weapon with use of steam. I think it's a waste not to if simply because it's considered overtapping a well? I might add they can add other technologies from the other cultures too along with it.

[feral viper]

I'll admit, I am also not a fan of Steampunk in general. So Steam Weapons don't resonate with me.

[nimble pond]

Understandable

[forest surge]

But anyway using the Dwemer’s stuff would essentially make the fact they are ahead of the curb compared to everyone not matter

[feral viper]

Like... What, are you wearing a whole water tank and boiler on your back?

[feral viper]

Eeeeh... Not as much.

[nimble pond]

No that'd be a bit much lmao

[feral viper]

Their approach was simply different. They weren't ahead of many Merethic Elven civilisations, simply approaching the problem differently.

[forest surge]

I mean maybe but even then everyone makes it sound as if replicating there technology is very difficult

[feral viper]

In fact, given the Ayleids, Left-handers and Altmer had their towers well, well before, the Dwemer may actually have been behind the curvem

The problem isn't so much replicating their technology, it's replicating the magic that makes their technology work.

Dwemer Metal is magically refined in some unknown way, as their magical boilers are fed with energy from some outside source that others haven't figured out yet.

Making pipes to house steam, and boilers, isn't outside the abilities of others. Magically refining the materials that don't corrode, and providing limitless magical fuel to the boilers, is a little more complicated.

[nimble pond]

I was gonna say it doesn't even necessarily have to use the dwemer technology to create the steam. Someone could find another way to make the steampower and use that.

[forest surge]

I mean even then that’s essentially something that continues to Puzzle People Thousands of Years later, which is very telling if people still haven’t cracked how that Magic is done

[feral viper]

Probably because they're researching the total wrong magic.

[forest surge]

Which is probably the obvious answer

[feral viper]

The solution is likely Tonal Magic, which is almost entirely unknown to the wider magical community.

[forest surge]

It can also drive normal people mad I believe.

I’m trying to remember that Vvardenfell Quest from ESO that involves it

[feral viper]

Yeah, it's also super difficult to use. As we see with the Thu'um.

So it's definitely more sophisticated a dynamic than just 'The Dwemer were more advanced'. In particular fields, they absolutely were. But their other magical arts seem far less advanced than other Elves of the time.

[forest surge]

I did find it interesting how they did the Dwarves in this series, since in most other Fantasy they tend to exist and are well renowned Blacksmiths

[feral viper]

Yeah. On one hand, it's almost back to the roots.

Dwarves in earliest mentions were basically another group of Elves.

On the other hand, it's... A radical departure from basically every other depiction.

Thinking about it... I think there may be some room for, like, a steam powered grappling hook...

[nimble pond]

I mean essentially are a lot of ways to approach it

[forest surge]

We did get A Grappling Hook in Southern Elsweyr so they definitely exist in Universe

[nimble pond]

Whether it's using the technology, creating one similar, or simply re-purposing a dwemer tool to serve as a weapon.

[feral viper]

Yeah.

[nimble pond]

Air compression is another path, but I just thought it was boring in-comparison to steam powered. If they have some culture develop a new interesting air compression tech, than I'd be more interested as it's established in-game and not just random. Which they may already have that, but I'm not yet aware of it

[feral viper]

But, the cold embrace of nightly oblivion calls. Gnight all

[nimble pond]

Melee-hooked weapons in general could be added too, giving you that effect of being able to hook in and pull opponents back to you. And a ranged-hook weapon with the same purpose could certainly be used as well. Pretty sure Fallout got hooks.

This guy ready for it 🤣 https://www.fun-world.net/pub/media/catalog/product/9/0/90470.jpg

[spare thorn]

What in the actual

[eager remnant]

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning offers an ability called harpoon. It's a pretty fun ability to use. https://amalur.fandom.com/wiki/Harpoon

[twilit fractal]

Just imagine in the next game we could get one in elder Scrolls heck a new gameplay mechanic where u throw it and pulls people near u and can make a second attack in another hand

Combo attacks sounds fun

[nimble pond]

I've seen some pretty cool grappling hooks over the years. Bulletstorm's whip, Metroid's grapple beam ..Just Cause's grappling hook one of the most entertaining for me mixed with the physics.

[forest surge]

Ah Metroid, Metroid Prime 4… I want it…

[nimble pond]

For me, if they were to add a grappling hook, it would be very interesting if you could use different attachments for it and mods if you will. Like probably not suited for this game, but in another I'd love to plant explosives on the hook and then whip it into enemies.

Harpoon would certainly be fun to use as well as you could have different attachments, functions, and mods with that type of ranged weapon as well.

[feral viper]

I mean, we already have Unrelenting Force, which should be instantly fatal to anyone hit by it... So managing to pull people with a Harpoon wouldn't be outside the general suspension of disbelief.

I think the bigger issue, at least from my perspective, is integrating any idea into a functional combat system. Because, combat in TES isn't great.

And I don't think just throwing more things into what amounts to a slugging match with foam bats is really going to help address that.

[wide garnet]

That’s what mods are for.

[feral viper]

If there is a Mod out there that addresses the problem, I've certainly never found it.

Best they do is just decrease the health pools so the number of thwacks with said foam bat are lower.

[feral viper]

This is because the problems are both systemic on the part of game design, and cognitive on the part of Players..

Quite simply, and to say something that tends to be controversial... RPG players usually think incorrectly.

[light bolt]

Ah
so players in general... gotcha

[feral viper]

Their mindset is 'I am an X, I do X'. But no one in any situation would think that way. No one thinks 'I'm an Engineer, I Build Bridges' and then tries to solve every problem with a Bridge.

And so long as players continue to think that way, game design is crammed into that thought process, creating shallow mechanics and approaches to situations..

For instance, the common thinking is 'I am a Knight. I fight with Sword and Shield'. So, if people think that way, you're stuck designing systems which need to make that narrow mindset possible.

The reality is more 'I am a Knight. I am skilled in many forms of combat and weaponry, and an armed with a Sword and Shield in this moment. How do I best approach this situation with my skills, and what I currently possess?'

With that less superficial and trope-y perspective, you open up room for mechanics that can more easily play into eachother, be exclusive, or expand on eachother.

[light bolt]

hmm interesting

i suppose a true RPG player would have the mindset you are talking about
unfortunately, at this day and age, such mindset isnt the norm for the general audience and RPGs today need to compensate to whats ...uhh "popular" in today's standards, i guess

[feral viper]

I find that RPG players who had good DMs on the tabletop tend to have the more varied mindset. DMs which encouraged out of the box thinking and homebrewing rules to accomodate.

Because the Tabletop games have really never facilitated such an approach, and it's always been on the DM to be flexible

But, when RPGs made the jump to the video game medium, they lost that creative and adaptive force of a DM, and brought all the baggage with them. And no one has ever really gone back to the drawing board to try and build a proper VG-RPG from the ground up.

[light bolt]

aah, true
I guess with tabletop theres more "freedom" in how things are played
whereas with video games... there has to be limitations or else they will never exist due to the sheer amount of stuff they need to make in order to have the same "freedom" tabletop games have

[feral viper]

In some ways. In other ways, Video Games are also far more liberating.

A lot of the calculations and interactions can be done in a fraction of a second, while they would take too much time on the tabletop.

[light bolt]

yep

[feral viper]

For instance, DR is a cumbersome mechanic on the Tabletop. You roll to hit, then you roll damage, then you subtract DR from the damage, apply any Resistances, and then you deduct the damage from the target HP.

So, most games ignore DR entirely and roll Armour directly into AC to speed up the overall calculations. But a Video Game can do all of that in effectively real time..

[light bolt]

I... dont think i got the patience for DR lol
playing BG3 is cool but yeah, i wouldnt stick to playing games that rely on DR ... thats just me tho

[feral viper]

You could very easily have a weapon doing a specific type of damage, compared to an armours specific resistance to that damage, concert that into damage, and then slap on Durability loss as the difference to boot.

All without having to even break your stride.

[feral viper]

You can even do a lot more than just that. But then the complication becomes relating that information. Interaction calculations need to be kept simple, while variable calculations can be complex

So, like... How your damage dealt is calculated could be derived from a dozen different things. Same with Armour.

But how damage and Armour interact needs to be simple. So the Player can make reasonable decisions and set expectations..

So like, Attack can be nonsense like

BaseWeapon+Str*%modifier*InjuryModifer=.

But Damage should only be Attack-AC=

That way, the Player can easily assess what their character is good at, make general assessments of what they're up against, and make decisions accordingly.

[feral viper]

All of which is very... Basic concept work that doesn't really address how to mechanically approach any of that concept.

[feral viper]

Having some trouble there Gin?

[forest surge]

Just Occurred to me… where are the Dawnguard?

[nimble pond]

Frankly imo, all this talk of what rpg's should be or players being told they're not thinking correctly, has long-since gone stale and the genre-labeling is becoming more and more irrelevant in the industry with games now having elements borrowing from all kinds of other genres mixed within. Let the designers make the game how they best see fit, their own customization or twist instead of worrying about keeping their creativity cramped within the lines. Make your own genre. Sure you can establish a general direction, I just wouldn't go overboard with it to the point where it starts to actually put limitations on that sense of creative freedom. When I go shopping for a video game, I'm not sitting there with a checklist marking off demerits because a game does something that other games of the same genre don't. I'm there because I've had a long day.. so if I find a video game that's fun and entertaining, well sir.. well done.

[feral viper]

Oh, I don't either. Just because I have deeper conceptual issues with how RPGs are being designed doesn't mean I don't enjoy them.

It's more of a... Where is there room to grow, question. And the current trend has a very narrow window, which forces increasingly narrow options.

My thought processes are never about where we are going. But rather, where I think we should go.

[forest surge]

They should still exist during ESO honestly

[feral viper]

I think that's more of a Lore topic really.

Ultimately, though, my goal in exploring these sorts of topics is, and always has been, to make a better game.

You can certainly make a fantastic game within the current mindset, I can't deny that. Look at Baldur's Gate 3.

[nimble pond]

BG3 I cannot play, simply for the fact of the turn-based combat mixed with the camera angle. I just can't do it, even though I wanted to. But I still think it's a fantastic fun and entertaining game. But I'm not gonna go to say how it could have been a better game if they had gone with first-person and real-time combat. Because that's not the case. They clearly had their own approach and style like any other studio.

[pale walrus]

I think what you're saying is that an RPG that is class-based (warrior, mage, thief or something like that) is limiting. If that's what you're saying, I heartily agree.

[feral viper]

In part. That's a strong expression of the core problem, yeah.

[livid ingot]

I think the point of a class system is to be limiting, isn't it? To limit how you engage with the world to aid in roleplay? Like, you're a barbarian so you wouldn't know how to read this arcane language, even if the player knows what it says/means.

[eager remnant]

It doesn't aid in my roleplaying, in any way. Old school fixed classes, chosen at character creation, do not allow characters to grow and change in response to events. They are "gamey," artificial. In life, many of us switch careers as we mature. Some switch careers several times. A good roleplaying mechanic should be flexible enough to allow for this same character growth. I like to roleplay characters who change in this way. It is not usuual for one of my characters to start a game as a mage and end as a thief, or to start as a warior and end as a mage, ect. This is how real life works, and it is how roleplaying mechanics should work as well.

But more than that, I would argue that, contrary to conventional opinion, Skyrim does in fact have "classes." The difference between Skyrim and earlier games in this respect is that in Skyrim we build our "class" organically, in-game, as we play, whereas earlier games forced us to choose a class in a menu, outside of the game universe, and chained us to that class for the duration of the game, whether doing so made any roleplaying sense or not.

[livid ingot]

You don't deny that's how classes are intended to function though?

[twilit fractal]

Like this perspective

[eager remnant]

Why would I? Of course that's how they were intended to function! And thst is precisely why, in my opinion, they are terrible roleplaying mechanics.

[twilit fractal]

I feel like the future RPGs will do a better job in that sense for rpgs

Better roleplaying

[livid ingot]

That was just my point.

[twilit fractal]

I am just waiting to see if any game can capture my love for gaming like the older stuff

I like the older Elder Scrolls games and fallout titles

Main reason I enjoy this Server to talk about other people that enjoys the same games

Il be patient to see what comes out

[livid ingot]

I think its fine to be against classes. Its just a truism to find them too limiting when that's the intention behind the design.
As for whether they're good for roleplay or not, I'm divided on the subject. I think they clumsily reflect the limited time and accumulation of experience in our own lives, a better system would not have rigid classes, but would see you lose proficiency in skills you weren't using as you gain proficiency in others.

[twilit fractal]

It might be complicating to implement

It depends on who comes up with the system their is a ton of companies

That make rpgs

Heck u never know their probably a mod out for it

Just have to look

[pale walrus]

I dunno. My impression (for what it's worth) is that class systems are intended to simplify things for players. For some, that can be a good thing. My personal preference is to err on the side of flexibility. Everything in an RPG should have 'room' built into it so that you can have as much freedom as possible - without 'breaking' the game - to do what you want and build your own story (again, this is just my personal preference.) Now don't get me wrong - the way Bethesda builds ES games is pretty neat in a bunch of ways - the lore, the races, the religious and cultural aspects and so forth. But I would rather not be 'binding.' I'll give an example: in Skyrim, playing as an orc is great fun if you want to create a very strong warrior and run around and bonk people on the head - which is vicariously quite enjoyable. But I like the idea of being able to create an orc character who, say, grew up in solitude instead of one of the Orc villages, got a great education, and became some sort of master alchemist or wizard or something else quite outside of the norm for Orcs. The way Skyrim was developed, you would be somewhat constrained from taking such a character beyond certain limits, but I'd like to see a method whereby you can 'flip a switch' and have the limits relaxed. People who like the imposed limits should of course be allowed to keep them, but for those of us who want to really customize the experience for ourselves, it would be nice if there was a way to get some extra freedom in character creation and development.

[nimble pond]

I get what you mean. Like just because you're a knight, doesn't mean you can't learn magic, if you were wish to. And that is what makes each class more unique and capable of being tailored to the player. You can have much more variation with the knight class as opposed to it being generally the same build everytime.
It's sort of like life. Say you are really talented in the arts. But with that, there are still a lot of different careers to match with that within that sort of trade. But at the same time, you may hold an interest in a completely different trade such as engineering and decide you want to pursue something in that instead. While still having your talent in the arts, picking up and actively learning an unfamiliar trade. Or you could end up with something like making a knight character who was so terrible with the sword with the sword, they went with magic instead, but decided they just wanted to keep their knight armor and shield as well.
Lots of possibilities.

[feral viper]

Yeah. Which ties into why I generally thing developers and gamers in general think incorrectly when it comes to this sort of design.

The typical approach is to create a system based around specialisations, and then put ways to branch out and build character diversity on top of that.

Tabletop RPGs are basically built on this, with few real deviations (GURPS).

Instead, especially in video games, the approach should be... Create a system that is inherently built on diversity, and then integrate ways to encourage specialisation naturally.

[pale walrus]

I'm not sure that's enough. It's not just the PC skillset that should have as wide a choice as possible, but also the characteristics of that PC. Think of a dunmer who instead of growing up on vardenfell he actually is raised on Solstheim. So instead of having fire resistance, he has cold resistance. Skyrim already allowed you to play as an Altmer but still join the stormcloaks, which is kind of lore breaking in a way. What I'm suggesting is more of that. Give the player a chance to build a PC that is completely unique and not necessarily bound by any of the lore or religious stuff or character classes or physical attributes or anything else. If some players want to be more tied to lore and classes and races and all that, they should of course have the option. But for those players who want to create an 'anomaly', there ought to be a way. It could be a lot of fun.

[feral viper]

Oh, absolutely. But that's also part of why I'm against Racial Stats (with other reasons, of course).

[feral viper]

In terms of raw mechanical function, you can still have things like Classes and Races, but they should serve more as packages of starting variables within the more varied system, rather than prescriptive identities that force particular characteristics.

[twilit fractal]

That's why a lot mods exist for

Bec no game is perfect

[feral viper]

True, but mods can largely only do so much. Especially with major games like this.

Rimworld allows modders to get in and basically change every aspect of the game. Bethesda games, not so much.

So building from a more flexible foundation would only facilitate modders even more.

[twilit fractal]

I feel like the changes with survival mode racial buffs and debfuffs was ok

Never played rim world so I don't know anything about it

[nimble pond]

I should of added, while I also think it does have it's place too.. it just depends on the game and how it's setup.

[nimble pond]

Sort of like directions/guides but by no means bound to it.

[river cloak]

I need es6 I’m literally so bored

[nimble pond]

Here, have some of my copium reserve

[paper prism]

Ok, I think I have a good idea, hear me out...

There are no bugs in Elder Scrolls games... they're all actually just Sheogorath messing with the fabric of reality

[twilit fractal]

What a theory

[nimble pond]

Hmm I see the mages guild made another hole 😄

[tardy tiger]

Honestly racial stats is more of a mix of culture and some gameplay differences thrown in. A way of making a back story like mount and blade could in theory replace it.

For class stuff there should be at least some way of changing during the game without wiping stats or history of somethings just as a way for people to role play a way their character changed

[feral viper]

A decent Background system basically covers all the possible benefit of Races and Classes, with none of the baggage.

Letting you establish who you are and how you got here, and then letting you progress however you want from there.

[shadow vault]

Any idea when we getting some concrete ES6 news ?

[feral viper]

Sometime between tomorrow, and the heat death of the universe.

[livid ingot]

Not for a few years at least

[lethal bolt]

Realistically, based on BGS's prior behavior around these topics, probably about 6mo before it comes out. So, like.. E3 2026/27 (or whatever we end up calling that time of year eventually)

But who can claim to know the mind of Almighty Todd, truly?

[stuck minnow]

the elder scrolls 6 needs to introduce new factions

[feral viper]

Well, TES5 did that...

And it was not well received

[forest surge]

Some people don’t like change either tbf, since some are more traditionalist.

For a lot of people they may just want Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Thieves Guild & Dark Brotherhood, but even then that would be retreading to much of the same.

[feral viper]

Agreed.

I personally like the idea of new, local factions. But... Well, I also recognise that my opinions are somewhat controversial

[forest surge]

It’s not like it’s a bad thing to do something new either, the Dark Brotherhood is on it’s way out at this point and Skyrim may as well be there last time in the limelight. A lot of these Factions had there heyday, the Interregnum was where The Fighters Guild, The Mages Guild, The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood were at there peak since countless wars went on, so there services were more in demand than ever, it was essentially there Bubble Period, but after those times they hit a point where they would realistically not be as influential as they once were, the ones who it hit harder were The Dark Brotherhood who went through a decline at some point following Morrowind.

[pale walrus]

I actually want both. I don't want to 'break the game', but there has to be a way to get both. I want that flexibility. It would be more fun. It also makes sense in a certain way. I know the game doesn't have to reflect real life, but I can see lots of advantages for players to have that kind of flexibility.

[pale walrus]

what do you mean?

[pale walrus]

Don't be surprised if it makes a comeback. Consider from a lore perspective who the DB patron is. My guess is that either it will be reborn in a different form or will simply reconstitute itself in some dramatic way. Remember: the DB assassinated teh Emperor in ES5. That's quite a coup for an organization that is about to become extinct. I'm going to guess that BGS will revive the DB and make it a very frightening organization. They could do this in several ways. One intriguing way might be to make it a semi-magical order - in other words, DB members rising in rank eventually learn how to become invisible, how to float, how to project poisonous substances (either liquid or gas) in some manner, how to create illusions, how to plant suggestions into people's minds and so forth.

[pale walrus]

there's probably lots of ways to add interesting local factions per province. They could have all sorts of foundations - a merchant's guild, a craftman's guild, a sailor's guild, etc...they could get involved in politics, religion, crime, create small paramilitary forces and so forth. Think of the Teamsters or criminal enterprises throughout the world (the Tong, the Cosa Nostra, the Yakuza), and many other examples.

[feral viper]

Agreed, and thats sorta where I come from when I ramble about going about things backwards, both in terms of game design and players.

The system to aim for is one that facilitates those sorts of tropes, but isn't built around them. And that requires starting from a position of not having them, then layering them into an already functional dybamjc

[pale walrus]

Something missing in RPGs that I'd like to see: far greater freedom of creativity in developing storylines. This is a very vague statement, so I need to explain (sorry.) Think about this: lots of skyrim quests - in fact, almost all of them - could be broken down into "go into crypt/ruin/cave/spooky place, kill all the baddies, kill the boss baddie, and get the cool item." OK, this can be fun. But how about switching it up a bit? Let's do some murder mystery stuff. For instance: you're in hammerfell - say in Sentinel. A trading caravan is getting ready to cross the Alik'r to go to Elinhir. They need security, so they hire you, and on the journey some fun and interesting things happen. But when you get to Elinhir, a local approaches the caravan and offers a lucrative trade deal, but several of the caravan traders have to meet this local in a Nede ruin outside of town. The merchants disappear. You go to investigate, and find the location is haunted. However, you also find out the merchants are not dead. You need to find the merchants. People who could help you do this or get in the way include locals, some caravan members, and even the ghosts in that location. You could weave quite a tale from that. There's other stories that could be tried as well - detective type stories, events that involve lots of politics, espionage, dirty business practices and so forth. These kinds of stories will add depth, color and variety to the game well beyond the usual "you are a hero of legend and have to hack and slash your way to fulfilling your destiny and saving the world."

[feral viper]

And they do usually exist. They just tend to get weighed down in the general... Shall we say, chaff of questing?

It's something Starfield did much better though, as it's structured quests do tend to be far more varied than its radiant ones. Everything from trying to negotiate settlement options for a Generation Ship, to investigating a haunted derelict, to philosophising over the nature of life and self actualization with a sentient AI.

So hopefully, we'll see similar amounts of written quest diversify in TES6.

I think there's always a risk of things getting TOO convoluted though. As most mystery stories tend to these days.

[feral viper]

Too often they wander into Scooby-Doo territory. Which pains me to say, as someone who loves (almost) every iteration of Scooby-Doo.

But a mystery needs actual clues. Not a blind reveal at the end that isn't alluded to, and can't be pieced together over the course of the story.

The problem is, most modern mystery writers don't do this, relying instead on obsufication to drive some means of suspense and prevent people from seeing the reveal coming.

Which kinda defeats the whole point.

[pale walrus]

I understand what you mean. It boils down to actually good writing. BGS needs to pay special attention to this. Even inferior graphics are ok, provided the stories in the game are compelling (personal opinion.)

[frozen garnet]

What would be really interesting to me, is if Elder Scrolls 6 and future Elder Scrolls games could have a few sentient and intelligent creatures in their caves/dungeons, and said creature could either try to recruit or intimidate players to join whatever their cause is. Maybe that could be a way to have different little sidequest chains and it could be good for role play if done well.

[pale walrus]

That's a great idea. BGS should be amenable to this and could make this tremendously interesting with a little imagination. You can tell that they have at least explored the idea initially. For instance: think of the Reiklings of Solstheim in the Dragonborn expansion for Skyrim. You can actually interact with 1 or 2 of the tribes in a very limited way. One could also argue that the Dawnguard expansion and the interactions with Harkon and his vampire clan were a step in this direction. You know what game showed genuine mastery of this approach? I doubt any of you even know of this game - the original Deus Ex. I see no reason why BGS can't attempt to do the same in multiple instances in ES6. They've already had 12 years to develop storylines and likely will have another 3-5 years to polish them, develop some more, and have them implemented. There's no excuse.

[frozen garnet]

Ooo yeah it was as done really well in Deus Ex

[eager remnant]

Deus Ex is one of my favorite games. It was a revelation to me back in early 2001. I had been used to linear shooters like Half-Life and American McGee's Alice up to that point and, although the plot and game world were linear, the way we could approach each situation in Deus Ex allowed for an amazing amount of player freedom.

[runic monolith]

There was an old game - Arcanum of Steamworks and Magick Obscura that had some great storylines, it also made your decisions meaningful which I liked. At the end of the game it gave a brief summary of what you accomplished and what your decisions resulted in for the world.

That is something I found in Skyrim, there were very few if any really likeable characters, and mostly grey and generally amoral choices to be made. One of the few characters I liked - the Jarl of Whiterun - you end up having to betray if you follow the Stormcloak questline.

I do also wonder if TES VI will bow to the overwhelming desire of gamers for a more sophisticated armor and clothing layering system - like a better version of Morrowind's system. I really did not care for the "console first" style of Oblivion and Skyrim for equipment and inventory management.

I really would like to see my character on the side and the available layers and slots.

[night violet]

Really hoping TES VI doesn't replace crafting and enchanting with legendary loot. Also please, can we have melee be just as good as other options.

[feral viper]

It will have to be. Which.. will require some work.

Because let's be honest, melee in Starfield? Might as well not even be there.

[night violet]

Yeah my first character is melee. And my advanced shotgun I found on a cot is better than my best melee weapon and I have no perks in guns...

[feral viper]

It's also just mechanically clunky to play. Like, it's not GREAT in Skyrim or Fallout 4, but it's just terrible in Starfield.

So they're really going to have to work on some melee mechanics for TES6

There was actually a joke on Stardock recently, about how improvised melee weapons are still functionally relevant in Sci Fi... But Starfield really tries to make it seem like they aren't.

[night violet]

Maybe they either

A. Didn't want to be compared to star wars so no laser swords for us

B. Wanted this game to be more ranged focused and ESVI be more melee.

[runic monolith]

Anyone here seen the Nolvus or Ultima (by nukt) modlists...

I always liked the combat in Mount & Blade... I'd be pretty happy with those plus some flourishes based on skill.

[runic monolith]

I guess in sci-fi like Starfield there are very few usecases for melee other than brawling. Why bring a knife or sword when you can use a needler or rocker launcher?

Yes a rocker launcher

Launches these guys

https://tenor.com/view/wadedotphoto-wade-wadephoto-idles-idlesband-gif-26188127

[feral viper]

Yeah. TES kinda has some added difficulties in terms of melee combat, due to being a variable perspective game. You can't have 2 seperate control and behaviour systems for 1st and 3rd person, and you can't really maximise the benefits of either. So you have to approach it from a broader angle.

[red badger]

can anyone tell me how i am be able to connect to the Bethesda.net servers

[eager remnant]

Feel free to discuss mods in our #skyrim-se-mods or #1067467528353370152 channels.

[pale walrus]

Regarding crafting, enchanting and alchemy: I enjoy those a lot. Want more of it. I could see them being deliberately combined in certain respects, or at least intersecting. Example: if you have the skill to craft a special glass container that is partitioned, you could use your alchemy skills to create something like a binary explosive. Another example: maybe crafting and enchanting could be used in a manner whereby a normally heavy weapon or armor piece becomes lighter, or the armor/weapon is more durable or even more 'silent', contributing to the success of a stealth player.

[pale walrus]

This brings to mind something else. The way armor as a category was developed in skyrim seemed wrong. There was an incredible abundance of it, including the highest level armors. And no matter what armor you favored, you could potentially upgrade it thru smithing to the point that you were nearly invulnerable. This makes no sense - how could a leather carapace become as protective as ebony, dragonbone or stahlrim? There needs to be a lot more nuance in this.

[long phoenix]

I have not been notified of any pre-order information for the PlayStation Japanese version of Elder Scrolls Online, and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this.

[feral viper]

I think that Crafting -of all types- is another system that requires a pretty significant overhaul.

But ultimately, it's heavily dependent on the basic gameplay systems that it interacts with... So combat in particular really needs to be refined and polished before you even start on Crafting.

[feral viper]

How you make Armour, for instance, can't even be looked at until you figure out how armour functions. Which is entirely dependent on how Damage works. Which necessitates having your combat loop ironed out first.

Similar problems extend to Enchanting and Alchemy as well, as the effects and resources they are dependent on interacting with are almost entirely Combat related.

That said, some things which I do think are fundamentally necessary regardless of the combat system, are the abandonment of Weight Classes of Armour (they're utter nonsense) and a switch to a DR style armour system rather than an AC formula system.

[nimble pond]

I wish we could create our own custom armor. Like from the ground up, picking the materials, methods and such, so we can create our own armor stats. I'd be a legit blacksmith for a playthru with that or if they introduce player jobs/trades/career I def pick up that blacksmithing apprenticeship.

[jade reef]

I can't believe we will get gta6 before tes6

[feral viper]

Considering a proper trailer for GTA6 is rumoured to be coming in January, with a predicted release date being between Q4 2024 and Q2 2025.

Almkst certainly.

[jade reef]

Trailer has been confirmed by rockstar on twitter for December and during investors meeting they say they will make 3 billion more than normal next year so release is next year

[feral viper]

Assuming no delays. Which have become increasingly common across the industry.

[feral viper]

Like many things I overdo, I have designed such a system for that.

[pale walrus]

That could be a lot of fun. Based on the materials, you get properties such as initial cost, maintenance cost and frequency (I guess you could call that durability), weight, movement/encumbrance, enchantability, noise, base protection factor(s) and probably other things which I haven't thought of. On top of that, you get to personalize the look of it - style/'cut', color, engravings, what have you. This should be doable. I wonder if it could be extended to weapons and other items such as clothing.

[pale walrus]

That is interesting news. GTA is a very different kind of game, but very complex in its own way. The fact that Rockstar can develop a sequel much faster than BGS suggests a lot about BGS development practices and management, and it's unflattering. I'm wondering if BGS made some strategic errors here. Maybe they should have continued working with Obsidian and had them do something in the ES world - not actually ES6, but a title which built on ES5 technology and created a compelling game either in a new province or a big adventure in an already-covered province. The title could even have been just a major skyrim expansion. Say Skyrim with its DLC was 500 hours of content (I just made that up - I haven't a clue what a proper number should be.) If a partner developer made new skyrim content that was another 150 hours, that would be great. It could explore the unvisited parts of morrowind, or maybe go into eastern High Rock, or visit cyrodiil, or maybe go farther afield. In the years between ES5 and ES6 (which is starting to look like 15 years minimum), the partner studio could have done 2 or 3 of these big DLC. Both companies would have made a lot of money, and almost all BGS development (except some members of a testing team, maybe) would have been free to work on other priorities for the company, like Starfield or....dare I say it.........FO76. I don't know, I think this 15 year lag is a bunch of lost opportunities.

[obtuse grove]

Dont forget that Bethesda actually remembers about their other franchises and makes games for them, or works with other devs to make games to publish under BGS, while R* blows off their other games and just focuses mostly on GTA, and barely on Red Dead since they killed off Red dead online

I am also not including R*s "remasters" since anyone with half brain can see that both GTA definitive edition and Red Dead 1 were basically half baked cash grabs that defiled classic games loved by the community

[feral viper]

This really hits in the true value of any such system.

Customisability (with an S, autocorrect. I know how to spell thank you!). You could very easily allow for far more options than even Morrowind allowed, without overburdening general equipment management.

[feral viper]

If you shift customisation into crafting, rather than the equipment on the Paper Doll, you can better compartmentalise it in such a way to make far more options, without it being overwhelming.

For instance, you could easily have only Fallout4s 6 Armour pieces (conveniently coinciding with usual Body Parts for location damage systems). But crafting for each slot could allow as many as 5 pieces each.

This would mean 30 points for customisation, while only having to manage 6 Items in your character.

[pale walrus]

Yeah, you're right. That's why working with a partner studio might have been the best thing to do. Bethesda seems to be good at picking partners, so that could have been a good path for them to 'tide over' ES5 players with good content. Well, whatever - it's water under the bridge at this point.

[forest surge]

Happy 12th Birthday to Skyrim!

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-snow-skyrim-digital-icy-gif-4536248

[pale walrus]

Thank you for that - you just brought an idea to mind. I believe it is a strategic error on multiple levels to have a very long delay between releases of a game series such as ES. My reasoning is that the earlier title or titles could be remembered in a more idealistic light in recollection of past enjoyment, setting such a high bar for the newest installment of the series that it makes it very likely to become an unachievable standard. Think of it - are you more likely to 'miss the mark' as a game developer if there is a 4-6 year between titles or 10-12 years? Now of course a developer could err to the other extreme - on a purely empirical basis, I'd say that games that have new installments every 2 years can disappoint from lack of novelty compared to the previous title and can become perceived as stagnant as a result. So I'd say there is probably a 'happy medium' of 4-6 years between releases that is best - it's short enough to 'keep up' with gaming expectations and technology and long enough to allow the developer to add unique value that makes the title a definite step up from the previous release.

Addendum: this means that we should already be looking at ES6 as old news and should be about 6-12 months into ES7 (which I am betting will be in Elsweyr or Summerset.)

[forest surge]

The same is happening to Fallout to be clear, and no I don’t count 76 as that was essentially not a Mainline Game to begin with.

[feral viper]

Hasn't really helped, in regards to Bethesda anyway. Even on a 4 year release cycle, every new game was dubbed the 'Death of the franchise' and 'Dumbed Down TES for casuals'. Been that way since Morrowind's release.

I highly doubt a quicker turnover would have resulted in more positive reactions from the community. Because it's always been hostility on every release.

Bethesda tends to succeed DESPITE the communities reaction, rather than because of it.

The reaction for Bethesda games over the last two decades has consistently been... Positive Critical Reception, negative (vocal minority) community reception initially which then trends towards positive over time.

Even Fallout 76 followed this track.

[wide garnet]

That’s their style, man. And style is about knowing who you are, what you want, and not giving two hoots to those who say otherwise.

[scenic spade]

When do you think Bethesda will officially release more information about the Elder Scrolls 6? I don't care if it's just them saying it or them full-on showing more trailers.

[feral viper]

8-13 months before their targeted release date.

[forest surge]

I wonder what rendition of The Morrowind Theme we’ll get this time.

It’s still cool that Morrowind’s Main Theme became so popular it became the Theme Music for the series as a whole

Meanwhile I learned Akaviri make Pork Fried Rice

[feral viper]

I think it will depend on the setting, and tone they're going for.

[forest surge]

I know The ESO Teams have done there own renditions on it with the various chapters.

[feral viper]

Yeah, and they've been mostly solid.

It's amazing the amount of range you can manage, basically riffing on a single song.

[forest surge]

Which ones did and did you not like btw? For me I think it maybe the Summerset one I didn’t like as much, same with Blackwood probably.

[feral viper]

It's been so long since I listened to them back to back, I couldn't even tell you

[forest surge]

But thinking about it, it’s strange if someone were to go back to Arena and Daggerfall since there Themes are not the overall theme everyone knows now

[feral viper]

Yeah. But that's an inevitable part of the march of time.

[forest surge]

I remember hearing Morrowind’s first Incarnation of the song being more Magical and innocent in nature I believe.

Oblivion’s had a more, “This is the end of an era and Tamriel could face imminent doom, you are the hero who rises to stop it.”

Skyrim had the more Nordic Chants implemented because of The Legendary Dragonborn, the Slayer of Dragon’s and the one destined to fight Alduin.

ESO’s Main Theme basically has this uneasiness due to The Imperial City having fallen, but filled with hope as it went on, The Three Alliances along with various Daedra under The Prince Molag Bal trying to lay claim to the Central Power of Tamriel.

The Theme has gona under different iterations depending on the story they wish to tell, but if it focuses particularly on a specific race the Musical Tone reflects it.

Redguards would likely get that Middle Eastern type of Tune

[feral viper]

Of them all, I think Oblivion's is the weakest out of the box

I've heard some covers of it, but it's main weakness is... It totally lacks the urgency of the crisis that the game focuses on.

It's a general problem with Oblivion's sound track. While technically well executed... It just doesn't really fit with the setting and tone of the game.

[forest surge]

I would say ESO’s Main Theme does it better

[nimble pond]

So I watched the TESVI teaser for the some-thousandth time now and probably much more in the years to come.. Still initially looks like High Rock to me, plain and simple. But there are some subtle hints I didn't see before (like the cloud that looks like a dragon just over the curving mountain line "tail" or the curiously shaped structure on top of one of the mountain tops on the left side that looks similar to some other structures built in that same area) that whisper "Dragontail Mountains" in my ear. In which case I hope the main focus is on the orcs and think would be fun to open up on and expand. With that I think the Bretons and Redguard will probably be in there too, but like I said I could see the main center resting on the Orcs for the next chapter of the overall story. But more importantly it got me thinking. Instead of it being all HF or HR, or even all of both.. Why not HR, HF, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil? I don't mean the entire province of all those.. What I mean is making each chapter more about the story at hand and not simply boxed to one whole province at a time. Could have a big story around the Orcs, Bretons and Redguard, and even some minor involvement from Nords of Skyrim and Imperials of Cyrodiil. Something new, but also a return to some familiarity (just in a new timeline). I think Skyrim could have benefited from that as well if it had some minor involvement from Morrowind and Cyrodiil too. (granted the Dragonborn DLC can kinda count).

[scenic spade]

Wherever it is, I hope I hear more from Bethesda about it soon.

[livid ingot]

Well if it's High Rock, those would be the Wrothgarian Mountains, rather than the Dragontails.

I'm still convinced it's Hammerfell. Just looks too arid to be High Rock - at least based on how I think BGS would portray the province.

[nimble pond]

Yea I thought it was more coastal/gravely and lots of "high rocks" at first glance lol.

[sacred crater]

Did ESO devs get rid of the animation when you put on disguises or costumes?

[lethal wagon]

bruh this game is upsetting me

trying to get last part for mora's whisper, rigged rng taking me almost 30+ runs of the same old boring dungeon with no lead drop, everyone else gets it first time or in 10 runs smh...

[eager remnant]

@sacred crater @lethal wagon This is a channel forthe single-player Elder Scrolls games made by Bethesda Game Studios. If you have any questions about Elder Scrolls Online feel free to ask them on the ZeniMax Online forums. You can find them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[trim minnow]

guys shouldi get skyrim special edition for 8 euros or oblivion goty deluxe for 5 euros

[narrow hornet]

Skyrim

[pale walrus]

It's a little strange that BGS is hinting a return to the setting of ES2. There's already a title for the region and the lore is well developed. This should make it easier for them to develop a new title because they have a foundation of material upon which to build. But it's taking forever to create this new title.

[dim reef]

And if you're adding on to the current lore it will take more time not to mention how much technology has increased over years.

And last I knew development for ES 6 wasn't even going to be started until after Starfiled was released.

[pale walrus]

Well, ok, sure - developing new stories will take some time. But in terms of locations and 'history', that's already well developed thanks to the previous title. You can add to it, but you don't need to start from scratch. Also, they've had the opportunity to do at least some work on stories since 2011 (that should be a portion of the pre-dev work), and clearly at least some effort has been made in developing the setting from a visual point of view - that teaser trailer came out 5 years ago. With Starfield out, the focus should be shifting significantly to ES6, and it really shouldn't take another 5-7 years to get to a release. It ought to be quicker. If this analysis is incorrect, it becomes a legitimate question to ask if BGS would prefer to abandon the series, perhaps leaving any future developments to ESO.

[dim reef]

BGS only has a staff of 420 to devote to development. Most of the larger development studios have thousands. When you have small staff you don't pull them away until the current project is done.

[forest surge]

Blaze it

[lethal wagon]

So ur saying Bethesda didn’t make eso then ??

[forest surge]

No, they are consulted when it comes to the whole world building aspect and approve what the ESO Team can and cannot do, they didn’t necessarily make the game.

[lethal wagon]

It would be insulting to not have a general chat for their best es game smh

[spare plaza]

There's an ESO Discord at http://discord.gg/ElderScrollsOnline, however most things happen on the forums.

[river cloak]

Yeah the eso discord I don’t think there’s even a general chat unless it’s changed

[eager remnant]

You're correct: it's a clearinghouse for developer announcements. If folks want to chat they need to visit Zenimax Online's forums.

[pale walrus]

Then this is a management problem. Perhaps they ought to be using partners even more. I think they used Raven for the Dishonored stuff. They used Oblivion in the past for FONV. And I think somebody did the Doom stuff for them. It sounds like the main problem is that they're overcommitted and under-resourced - purely a management problem, then.

[river cloak]

It’s a shame tho there is no eso channel here even if it was under zenimax channel section or something as I wanna talk my love for all things elder scrolls which includes eso with everyone here

[eager remnant]

ESO's lore can be discussed in our Lore chat, if that's any consolation. 🙂

[river cloak]

Yeah I suppose that will have to do ☹️🥹

[spare plaza]

Alright, let's get back to talking about the Elder Scrolls games specifically, and not the innerworkings and theories about what Bethesda is doing, as they can be against #rules

[pale walrus]

OK, fair enough. Lately we've been talking about 'mechanics' - having more freedom of choice in character development, activities (crafting and such), combat and so forth. We've also talked about the types of stories we've seen and what we might suggest for the future. The 'big' story in any ES game, though, is some sort of world-changing and/or world-threatening event. Is this really a necessary part of ES games? Think about what I'm saying - a story can be still really gripping and powerful with people as the central characters. Think about The Iliad - the Gods interfered and took sides, but in the end it was a story written by the deeds of the Mycenaean Greeks and the Trojans. I kind of like the idea of doing that in ES as well - being the 'hero of prophecy' can be overused.

[sleek mountain]

Each event is preceeded by prophecy. But without the hero, there is no event.

[feral viper]

I personally say Yes. The Main Story serves multiple roles in establishing the specific setting and worldbuilding of the game, and not having it complicates things.

The Main Story allows you to easily have a launching platform for exploring the culture, history and mythology of a region and it's people, while also helping establish the mood and temporal state of them.

Without that Main Story, it's a lot more work to weave deeper mythic and historic ideas into the specific setting. And without those, it's much more difficult to encapsulate the culture and identity of the peoples in question.

You can still DO it, but it requires a lot more work from far more skilled writers.

[feral viper]

Consider... Strip out the Main Quest from Morrowind, and what happens.

You've got an Alien landscape, sure... But you lose a lot of the introduction to its politics, history and religion.

You'd need to then go back and redo all these things independently in self contained ways to achieve the same sort of result.

A result that the Main Quest (when executed well and given the proper room to breath) does on its own.

[eager remnant]

I don't think studsupreme wants to get rid of main quests. I think he is asking for main quests that focus more on smaller human-scale dramas (such as political, religious or racial tensions), rather than grand apocalyptic events.

[feral viper]

Ah, well. Maybe I misread that then.

Personally, I like the big stories apocalyptic stories, but largely because smaller scale personal and political ones are so much more difficult to do well.

An Apocalypse gives you a bit more insulation to cover up any shortcomings in characters and writing.

Plus, the nature of Prophecy and how it plays into the player agency is sorta hard baked into the franchise. It's a little harder to get away from in that regard.

[pale walrus]

Thank you, Pseron. You read my mind. I was thinking that a more human story can still have grandeur and tremendous meaning if simply written well. Again I cite the Iliad as an example. Now this would without question deviate from the 'model' that Bethesda has used for ES titles - there's always a hero of legend/prophecy as the centerpiece of the game. Maybe it's a stupid idea - after all, Bethesda has made it work time and again. Could be interesting as a departure from tradition, though. Whatever - let's see what happens. No matter what they do, if they write a compelling storyline, people will be happy.

[feral viper]

The Iliad probably isn't the best example, as it is at its core a story about Great Men. They are mostly, at their core, figures of legend fighting as divine proxy. Except for one, whose name escapes me at the moment, who only features in probably the best verse, focused entirely on the senselessness of war and the lie that is glor and honour.

Which really, is a message that doesn't get pushed enough in most games.

Honour and Glory are lies told by leaders to manipulate people to die for causes that almost always only serve to benefit the powerful.

A story focused on undermining that lie could be interesting.

[candid oyster]

Happy birthday Cyrus and Redguard

[feral viper]

Speaking of our boy... Bringing him back for Hammerfell as the 'guide' for why Heroes suck, and why Tradition and Honour are worthless, would be fun.

Give us a story where our job is to either stop he 'Hero' or actually reject the role.

Weave in some of that sweet, sweet Dune magic.

[pale walrus]

Wait - you've hit on something BRILLIANT! Think of the Trojan War, how it started and how the Olympian Gods meddled. A fair conclusion that can be made from the tale is that the Gods were a bunch of petty, spiteful, wrathful, sadistic, self-absorbed, malicious jerks. The religious aspects of the ES games haven't really explored that. Sure - there's the "Good" and "Bad" daedra of the Dunmer, but the Gods are still put up on a pedestal and the division between good and evil is usually still rather conventional (Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon bad, Azura good, Boethiah and Mephala mostly bad but having the long term interests of the Dunmer at heart, Malacath bad to the Dunmer but good to the Orsimer.) By pursuing such a foundation for the main story, ES could step up to a new level.

[feral viper]

I think stories that play up just how little the Aedra differ from the Aedra in terms of being petty scum bags would be a better take, than relying entirely on the Daedra

Buuut... Bethesda seems reluctant to veer out of the western notion of 'Loving' gods arrayed against 'manipulative' Demons.

Though that also plays into a generally flawed execution of Polytheism across the board. Few settings actually portray polytheistic practices, but rather worlds with multiple gods you pick one out of and then ignore the others.

Which is not at all how Polytheism works.

But, a game which at least plays up the selfish and petty agendas of the Aedra could be a fun twist.

[pale walrus]

I was only using the Daedra as an example, and I agree with you - the Aedra could get the same treatment. Example: Akatosh is supposed to be a great buddy to Man. But Akatosh's son is Alduin, who is a very, very naughty boy. The incongruity is great enough that it really drives the question of how great a friend to Man could Akatosh actually be. So both Aedra and Daedra seem to deserve a severe critique - they are far too pedestalized in ES. Of course, this also goes against the grain in terms of the storyline framework that is standard for ES titles. Whatever - it's fun to talk about these things, and I think we've come up with some good analyses and alternate ideas.

[feral viper]

Even easier, make Akatosh the driving force behind the Dominion, and emphasise the fact that it wasn't Alduin refusing to do his job that brought about his fall, it was his attempt to he worshipped as King of the Gods.

Make a crisis focused on Akatosh trying to tear down the faith of the usurper Talos, whose cult has elevated him to a higher status than Akatosh the true King.

Even make there division over who ACTUALLY stopped the Oblivion Crisis. Akatosh, or Talos. With the Talites claiming it was the Septim Patriarch, not the Dragon, who actually saved the world when Akatosh could not.

Give that political and religious schism some actual, interesting meat to it. Especially if, maybe, Talos IS actually guning for the throne of the King of the Gods.

[feral viper]

Of course, I say that partially because I do not like Tiber Septim, I do not like Talos, and I think it's about time the tyrant got some comeuppance

[pale walrus]

You're bringing up some intriguing possibilities. It does seem odd that Akatosh/Auriel is the chief of the Gods for both Altmer and Men. It also raises the question of what actually went down between Lorkhan and the other Aedra. In fact, didn't Boethiah say something to the effect that Lorkhan got a raw deal? An interesting comment, coming from one of the leading Daedra, all of whom were not in favor of creating Nirn (if I remember the lore clearly.) Regardless - I think it would be interesting if the Aedra and Daedra became more than "Hey, you - go and do this thing for me and I'll give you an artifact" participants in titles. They seemed to have been reduced to that (more or less) in Skyrim.

[feral viper]

I think there's definitely room for that, yeah.

Though for Hammerfell, I'd much rather a more philosophical approach rather than a direct Theological conflict.

Hammerfell is a culture and setting which most directly allows you to play with ideas of Progress vs Tradition, Violence vs Compromise, Past vs Future than any of the others (at least in their current state)

And it'd be a shame to waste that potential.

[pale walrus]

Sounds like a complex environment, both politically and socially. I agree - it would have great potential, and wasting it would be....well, a waste.

[scenic spade]

Do you all think Elder Scrolls 6 will be available on all consoles? I don't wanna buy an Xbox scarlet when I already have a PS5.

[livid ingot]

No official comment from Bethesda on that, we can't really say anything more. Just use your head.
Also if it's any consolation, TES VI will likely release on next-gen consoles (its probably about 4 years away).

[dim reef]

I found it. The Bethesda discord server. Wow

However, this server is just about as inactive as the actual game studios

[forest surge]

I take it you don’t understand how game development works?

[scenic spade]

Next Gen consoles my butt. lol. A lot of people would be angry at acquiring a PS5 only to be told to get a PS6 two years later for newer games. lol.

The pacing of nexting-genning of consoles will come to a grinding halt. At this point, it's gonna take a whole three decades before we get a PS7.

[livid ingot]

If you say so. 🤷 I don't play consoles. I just know we'll be 7 or 8 years on at that point

[pale walrus]

It wouldn't surprise me if one day one of the console makers comes up with a more 'modular' system that can be upgraded to keep up with newer titles that make more demands upon the hardware and perhaps has the resources to more easily accomodate titles made by different studios targeted at different console platforms. This would be a major competitive advantage for the console maker and would likely result in them stealing market share from their competitors. Likely, the game studios would also welcome the introduction of a platform they could depend on to be around for longer, as it would lighten their workload and potentially extend the life of their titles.

[feral viper]

If we're lucky, console exclusivity will be dead by the time TES6 comes out and it won't matter.

[scenic spade]

I would be massively heartbroken if TES6 ends up as an Xbox exclusive. My goodness, I know I have a massive library of games open for me on the PS5, but Elder Scrolls games are something special.

(Edited. Read again.)

[forest surge]

I mean a lot were heartbroken Starfield ended up exclusive, the same is bound to happen with TESVI, exclusivity these days are used to push units

[scenic spade]

Oh man...

[scenic spade]

Bro... lol

I love Talos. XD

My Redguard warrior couldn't care less about Talos but doesn't hate him. My wood elf demi-god and my Orc knight both love Talos. And Bowin, my very own Hero of Kvatch, loves Talos. And Bowin is the ancestor of my wood-elf demi-god Dragonborn.

What do you have against Talos? Do you hate world leaders in general? He founded the Empire. The Empire is better than the Ayleids. The Empire, unlike Skyrim, is cosmopolitan.

Cosmopolitanism is the best thing that ever happened to the real world. Why not in Elder Scrolls as well?

Far better than the barbaric Nords, who should've embraced Imperial rule.

And don't even get me started on the Dominion. One day, Talos's protege will rise and unite both Empire and Dominion into a Super Empire ruled by Auriel/Akatosh/Alkosh/Tolpapa.

[lethal wagon]

tes6 will be like eso 🙂

[scenic spade]

In what way?

[lethal wagon]

they should merge all the games into eso tbh and just have one big game really

[scenic spade]

As in The Elder Scrolls 6: Tamriel?

[lethal wagon]

all es games

[scenic spade]

That makes no sense. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim all happened in their own eras.

[lethal wagon]

but they exist in eso?

[scenic spade]

So you only mean the maps. Just not the time frames?

[shadow vault]

https://www.gamesradar.com/with-games-laid-out-like-treasures-a-nostalgic-todd-howard-talks-the-elder-scrolls-6-starfield-and-the-next-era-of-bethesda-rpgs/

What are your thoughts on this ?

[pale walrus]

Hmm. It would have been fun to be able to ask him some questions during the interview, like in a podcast. I would ask him why bethesda never created a DLC that 'completed' various incomplete things in Skyrim. Some examples: I remember a mid-size fortress ruin west of whiterun that had a bunch of bandits and a moon forge. I was left with the impression that this was supposed to be part of something much more significant - a full blown extended quest of some sort. There was more than one location in the whiterun area that also seemed incomplete - like unfinished crypts or tombs. I also recall a couple of unfinished quests associated with the mage's college by winterhold. Furthermore, apparently certain places like winterhold were incomplete, and there were some villages missing. Really don't understand why they didn't go back and finish them with a DLC.

[feral viper]

I think the 'If' highlights that Bethesda knows they've got some issues to address.

They're now 3 released into an increasingly downward trajectory, as far as reception goes, and have to be aware that the people with the purse strings are keeping an eye on that.

But, that awareness can be good. Because knowing and understanding your weaknesses allows you to target and address them.

[forest surge]

Which 3 specifically?

[feral viper]

But, that's by and large while I tend to lean more towards an in-depth analysis of mechanics and how they can be improved or modernised. Because ultimately a game lives on its playability first.

[feral viper]

Fallout 4, Fallout 76, and now Starfield (which is currently reviewing worse than 76).

[forest surge]

Now that’s just ridiculous to put 76 as better than Starfield.

[feral viper]

Now, Bethesda's reviews have also shown a tendency to gradually trend back up over time, with even the much maligned 76 now reading as Mostly Positive on Steam.

On the whole, Bethesda's reviews don't usually follow any sort of industry trends, so aren't easily used to make judgements...

But if we've learned anything over the last 30 years of capitalist dystopia, the suits who control the money rarely actually understand the industries they run, and are far more likely to react to short term reception rather than long term trends.

Overall point being, Todd and Bethesda must be aware of the issues.

And I, for my part, prefer to offer constrictive input regarding them, rather than doomsaying.

[eager remnant]

This is a channel forthe single-player Elder Scrolls games made by Bethesda Game Studios. If you have any questions about Elder Scrolls Online feel free to ask them on the ZeniMax Online forums. You can find them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[lost sleet]

My apologies, I'm gonna try to find the link🫡

[slim berry]

No worries; Pseron gave you a link to follow

[lost sleet]

Yeah no.. I found it instantly by just searching eso discord server on google😇

[feral viper]

More to the point... And to add some of that constructive input...

I think Starfield has really highlighted some of the dated design ethos at Bethesda, and that's something that will need to be addressed from the bottom up.

It can no longer be a 'This is what we do' situation, and needs to at least start as a 'What are we trying to do? And how can we best go about that?"

To tie that into something more directly practical: Melee Combat is exceedingly weak in Bethesda's repertoire. The basic control scheme is just functional, the advanced control scheme has never been even that, and the way it's approached heavily limits the range of influences and options which can be utilised by it.

So if you want success, you can't just take what you have and build off it. You need to re-examine the basic approach and make a decision on how to reinvent it to accomplish your goals. And that, it's self, requires you to have some sort of goal as to what you want to be able to do. Before you even start trying to design the system to do it.

So it really all starts with good, clear goal setting. What do you want to achieve? Once you have that set, you can work on building systems to get there.

And in this... Well I know it's unpopular in some quarters, but KISS really is the best approach. Keep It Simple insert insult here.

The fewest possible steps to achieving that goal is USUALLY the best way to approach it.

Of course, this is all basic Project Management stuff, so I assume Bethesda does it to some degree.

It's more just to make my process clear when I ramble on about specific mechanics.

Especially for when I say something controversial like 'There should only be one Armour Skill'

[feral viper]

Which, for the record... I do think should be done.

[pale walrus]

I believe what Terical has proposed adds depth to an ES title if implemented well. I strongly support this and would love to see the same conceptual approach in many other parts of an ES title. I have never played ES3, but based on reviews and articles, I am left with the impression that Morrowind was built with this in mind, front and center, as it appears it may be the richest title (in terms of depth of play experience) in the entire ES series.

One major implication I can think of in terms of enriching the depth of everything a player can do in a future ES title is the impact on dialogue. This could greatly complicate the writing and storytelling in a game, as it compels much greater depth in dialogue options, as well as dialogue length. Bethesda seems to be moving away from such depth of dialogue choice - at least FO4 seemed rather minimalist in this respect. But deep dialogue not only facilitates deep, customizable gameplay, but can actually drive it. I'd point back to Deus Ex 1 again as an example. Its use of dialogue to provide player choice and deepen the gameplay experience was tremendous.

I remember todd howard saying in an interview that he wants ES6 to be a game people are still playing 10 years after release. OK then - it needs to have deep player choice and customization options, with dialogue reflecting and even driving that. Also, there should be a steady stream of DLCs - I think one major DLC every 2 years is realizable. If, for instance, the base game on release has, say, 500 hours of content, a DLC should offer another 100-125 hours. Yes, that's a lot of studio investment. But I'd be willing to pay for that.

These are all just personal opinions. Please don't take any of them in a negative spirit - they're absolutely not intended that way. Also, I don't pretend to have a monopoly of 'greatness of thought' - if you have a different view, I'm sure I can learn from it.

[feral viper]

Bethesda's actually been moving towards MORE dialogue depth than less. With mixed results.

Fallout 4 undeniably, factually, had more dialogue options than Skyrim and Fallout 3 combined. And though a lot of these options actually led to the same results, it still included more alternate outcomes for Dialogue, as well as straight Dialogue Checks, than either of their previous games.

And Starfield, again, increases this volume. While throwing in probably the best Persuasion system in Bethesda's history (though one which I still think has problems).

Though I'm of course of mixed opinions on it... I understand people like the idea of choice, but... I just don't get it. The amount of sacrifices you make in storytelling, the underriding of emotional narratives, and the ultimate meaninglessness of the whole thing just actively turns me off.

I firmly believe that Choice has never, once, benefited a story in video games. And more often than not, it actively makes them worse..

[forest surge]

Oh man you have no idea how surprised I was that companions brought up what you said previously

Because it wasn’t prevalent previously and it’s like they really wanted to make it stick that NPC’s don’t necessarily forget.

[pale walrus]

If you haven't already, try Deus Ex 1. That's what I'm driving at. I can't promise that it will be your cup of tea, but I enjoyed that game immensely.

[scenic spade]

Is there a chance that TES6 will get off the traditional guild selection template of thieves-fighters-dark-mage? Or you think they’ll stick to it?

[pale walrus]

One would hope they would do so. There's many ways they could be creative about this. For instance: let's assume the game truly is in HF. Considering the nature of the province, one could imagine a scenario where a deeply troubled and tumultuous political situation results in there being multiple mercenary soldier companies and you could join any of them, sometimes switching between them. You could also imagine local governments or trade guilds hiring their own security. Let's take this a step further. There could be multiple schools of magic - a mage guild based on reviving or preserving old Nedic practices, another influenced by High Rock, another that claims roots in ancient Yokuda and so forth. Maybe some of the religious sects have their own magic practices that you can learn as an acolyte. Remember that HF has lots of potential influences - the social, economic and political divide between forbears and crowns, the nearness of places like High Rock, Skyrim, the Reach, even Cyrodiil and Summerset, historical influences from Yokuda, the Ayleids, the Rourken, Orcs and Nedes, and maybe even others (the Sload? Maybe...) So there's lots of potential material in terms of stories, traditions and 'architecture' of the game that could stem from all that. If I were Bethesda, I'd take advantage of all of it and not try to dumb down the game. Even if it's not all ready by, say, 2026, unfinished efforts could be completed for future DLCs.

[river cloak]

I hope in ES6 we get to go againsts the thieves guild like how cool would it have been to turn against Maven and rid riften of their crime problem

[runic pike]

Having a problem and I can't log in to the site to file a ticket. Someone hacked my account and changed the email. I can't recover it or login

[spare anchor]

Is this for a Bethesda account?

[runic pike]

Yes, for my ESO account on pc, it's a different account than my main bethesda account

[spare anchor]

For an ESO account, use this form: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/home/category/16/question/860/actrec/yes It's for account recovery, and there's an option if you can't access the email that's on the account.

[runic pike]

I got 2 receipts for 14,000 crowns each in that email, then when I tried to login, won't work. Tried recovery and no email

K, I'll try

[runic pike]

So, I found my username and password, but it says "You have been suspended from the site". Today is the first time I tried logging into the account in over a year

[pale walrus]

Perhaps you can use the above form to explain to ESO folks that your account was hacked/sabotaged (they should be able to see the differences in addresses accessing the account) and you could also tell them that you have another account where their records will show there has never been any bad behavior.

[scenic spade]

Any Fudgemuppet fans here?

[eager remnant]

I've followed them for several years. I'm particularly fond of their roleplaying builds.

[scenic spade]

I never look up their roleplay builds, but I really love their lore videos.

Also they are very prolific. They made a lot of lore videos. I guess my favorite one is their best warrior in Tamriel video. But I’m biased because I’m always a warrior in fantasy RPGs… Except that in Elder Scrolls, I’m a warrior with an archery focus. I still do melee combat of course.

That video also made me proud of having an orc character. Finest frontline troops in the Imperial Legion.

[feral viper]

Fudgemuppet is almost as prolific as Chapter Master Valrak. And that man is an absolute monster.

[scenic spade]

Is he a YouTuber?

[feral viper]

Yeah, for Warhammer 40k. GW can release something, and man has a video about it up within 24 hours. He's a machine, I swear.

[scenic spade]

Awesome. And honestly, Youtube viewers need prolific publishers. YouTube is the most binge-watchable internet medium there is.

[feral viper]

Sometimes that's for the best though. There's nothing like putting on YouTube to play in the background while I paint

[scenic spade]

Paint huh? Paint what? Your Skyrim characters?

Personally, I'm more of the type to emulate that Orc from the loading screen physique as I lift. lol. Remember that guy? Dual wield axes, nothing on top?

(edited. Read again.)

[feral viper]

Warhammer. So... 28mm miniatures

[scenic spade]

Oh nice.

But why not Elder Scrolls?

[feral viper]

Because TES does not have miniatures I can collect and paint.

If they did, I would absolutely have an army of Elves

In fact, Morrowind's Ebony armour heavily inspired my High Elf scheme. Which I both adore, and despise. Because painting highly reflective blacks on whole units of infantry is mind numbing.

[vast timber]

Based on Skyrim lore, the mages guild was disbanded, so maybe for TES VI as a guild idea, maybe we could be like Isran from dawn guard and rebuild the Mages guild or something like it in our imagine. Interesting take on becoming archmage in my view

[pale walrus]

That's right, I forgot. Well: there's the mage's college in Winterhold/Skyrim and the Psijics in Artaeum, so other organizations which teach magic exist. I'd put multiple ones in HF/ES6 to create a diversity of schools, participants and overall experience. You could break it up by tradition (Ayleid, Nede, Yokudan, Breton, Orsimer and maybe others), disciplines (restoration, conjuration, etc...), or maybe some other scheme. Rebuilding the mage's guild sounds like an interesting idea as well.

[scenic spade]

Ummm...

Why specifically Isran?

[scenic spade]

Hehe. I'm an elf too. We Mer scoff at this life because we know we belong to Aetherius, the realm of the gods!

I'm a wood elf, though. I don't know how the tall ones think of us.

[scenic spade]

Can I private message you?

[vast timber]

Just naming an example. Another example would be us rebuilding the knights of the nine from oblivion

[scenic spade]

Oh okay. But no spoilers for that, please. Right now, I'm playing Oblivion. I beat the Thieves Guild and I'm currently closing Oblivion gates. I haven't done the Knights expansion yet.

[feral viper]

Sure thing.

[finite sandal]

There is a newer lady fronted metal band based on elder scrolls, called Daedric 😄

[dim reef]

Did anyone get a dlc missing when loading the game Xbox series X how to fix that

[pale walrus]

Oh my.....just found the YT channel. Not chuff enough for my tastes. They'll never get invited to the festival in Trutnov every July. But hey - kind of a cool name.

[feral viper]

I, on the other hand, totally dig that sound, and will be adding them to my playlist.

[nimble pond]

Are you guys implying they should add a Daedric bard to the world now?

[feral viper]

Only if they play rock and metal.

[feral viper]

Alright, well... The Martial Arts thing in Lore has gotten me thinking again, and per usual, it ends up rolling back into the fact that TES ultimately needs much better combat.

[pale walrus]

Only if the band is Rompeprop.....it would be fitting, after all....

[glass marlin]

Let's be honest, Skyrim gave us an Orc Bard ||who you get a contract to kill during the Dark Brotherhood quest||. They'd need a Dremora to top THAT ONE.

[nimble pond]

Contray to lore of old, I've heard the Daedric are quite Dutch.. at least Sheo is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RDHjeiys3a0

[nimble pond]

Elemental fists would be cool. Sorta of a monk/mage crossbuild in the gaming world. Haven't really seen much magical melee, I think it would be fun to explore that creatively. Hmm, martial arts magic?

[feral viper]

The issue is more just basic mechanics. Unarmed Martial Arts are heavily focused on counters and grapples, which require a particular style of gameplay to really do well.

And... Well, Arkham/Ryse style combat is basically useless in First Person. So that's right out.

[forest surge]

Makes me wish for a spinoff game so we could get that.

[nimble pond]

It would be cool if they did a spinoff that revolves specifically around the plane of oblivion in it's early days, playing as a Daedra. Not sure how that would work with the lore, but I think that would be pretty cool. Or at least having another planet with life so that Nirn isn't the only one.

[nimble pond]

But I wouldn't invest too heavily in melee, leave that to the games are specifically designed to be that kind of game like mortal kombat or something. But they can certainly add some of the best or fun bits of melee seeing as how they do that with alot of features like that, not really fully developed, but present. Then you pick which features would prob benefit the most to expand on based on the kind of game you have made or are aiming for.

[pale walrus]

An immediate improvement in ES: make shields genuinely useful. I quickly found there was no point in having a shield, as you could still take significant damage even when blocking a blow. Besides bashing, shields can be used in other ways to ward off blows and either facilitate attacks or employed in an attack directly. Just this addition could add some significant variety in melee.

[nimble pond]

As long as they put a good focus on the main aspect of the game (storytelling and adventure while maintaining a more free sense of roleplaying) I welcome any further additions that enhance that and overall entertainment.

Personally I like tools in adventure games and would like to see more of that and non-boring reason to use and explore with them. Gives me something to do besides kill and loot lol. Like I like the mining and side stuff like that

[pale walrus]

I agree. Exploring for mining was fun, and then using the material for crafting. In fact, more crafting and alchemy would be fine with me.

[eager remnant]

I once made an ore wholesaler character whose whole "main quest" was to go all around Skyrim and mine ore. When she couldn't carry any more ore she would haul her merchandise back to Smiths in various towns and sell it. I will always remember that playthrough with fondness. It was great fun.

I love free-form, "undirected" playthroughs like that. It's the reason why I love BGS more than any other game studio.

[vast timber]

When it comes to Skyrim’s factions, I wish they bring back the ranking menu from oblivion

[pale walrus]

This talk about ore mining brought to mind a memory from Skyrim. I remember many times wandering around the map that I would encounter something - an object, a situation, something else notable - that I would promise myself I would revisit later. This was especially true if I had discovered something which required certain equipment (a lockpick, a mining pick, whatever) to investigate and/or exploit.

What I would like in the next title is a way to plant flags on the map that would stay planted until I removed them. I'd also like to be able to add notes associated with that flag so that I would have a written description of the flag's particular importance in case I had forgotten why I had planted it.

The flags themselves would not appear in the 'real world', but on the map view only.

[zealous junco]

hi, now that we got jetpacks in starfield and fallotu can we get the levitation spell in elder scrolls back?

[feral viper]

Less Jetpacks, but I think Starfield really opens up some interesting mechanical doors for Levitation with its microgravity.

[feral viper]

The behaviors and means of control , combined with Magicka Cost, would allow it to serve diverse roles while also feeling like to could progress in sophistication.

Imagine low level Levitation Spells basically being long jumps, allowing you to get up ledges or across gaps. Then, as your Magicka reserves get bigger, you can maintain the spell longer, allowing you to actively fly.

And that's not even touching on using it as an offensive spell to disable enemies.

[feral viper]

Controversial stance here... Buuut.

You should only be able to Block with a Shield. Full stop. That makes choosing NOT to use a shield have a direct impact on gameplay, and limits your active defense as a player.

[feral viper]

Which kinda brings up another point...

MORE ACTIVE DEFENSES.

We've had parrying in games since at least 1998, and dodging is a mainstay of combat in modern gaming. There's absolutely no reason to be entirely dependent on holding down Block.

[feral viper]

It makes for better interactive diversity too.

Dodging, obviously, is the most effective. You simply get out of the way, therefore take the least damage (0%).

Parrying is the next. It requires an attack at the right time to deflect an enemy attack, preventing most of the impact force entirely and minimising damage (75% reduction).

And Blocking is the last. It is the easiest to achieve (just hold the button) but relies on being able to just absorb that impact. Because you're still taking the force, it has the lowest reduction (50%).

And then you can weave in Perks to impact the various options as well

[pale walrus]

I'm wondering if Thieves and Assassins should have their own very highly specialized magic skill trees.

[river cloak]

What are some things people want to see in es6 ? Tbh love to see diversity and variety of animals like guars etc

Then maybe children of different races would be cool

[vast timber]

Or have your own bio children instead of just adoption

[pale walrus]

In terms of animals, I'd like Bethesda to build upon what they did in Skyrim. For HF, I want to see HERDS of animals, such as gazelle in semi-desert scrub brush, bison in grasslands, deer and elk in greener areas. Also, I'd like to see predators, but I would want all the animals to be shy around humans, especially the predators. If any predator seemed to be ready to get aggressive, I'd like to be able to scare it or them off. In other words, I'd love to see the wild critters but have no interest in harming them. Also, I don't want to run into monsters every 5 minutes.

In terms of kids - adopting or having them from natural childbirth are of no interest to me personally - too much like real world obligations, and I play games to escape the real world for a bit. But SAVING them would be wonderful. For instance, helping a family whose child has been kidnapped, or building an orphanage or children's hospital where the kids are genuinely helped and supported. That's what heroes do.

[feral viper]

I could go on about mechanics and inclusions and this that and another thing..

But really, I just want Bethesda to build worlds again. They really haven't, since Morrowind. They've build theme parks with a facade, and nothing deeper.

I'd, personally, trade all the modern mechanics and involved character options and great graphics, for a world I actually wanted to dive into, to explore and to learn about.

But I really don't know if they have it in them anymore. So I try to keep my focus on mechanics instead.

[nimble pond]

Yea our own labeling system woukd be nice. Like if it's a door needing a key or a chest I can't lockpick yet. Otherwise I have to keep a note log of everything lol

[pale walrus]

Very much agree. Depth over graphics and whiz-bang mechanics, no question.

[forest surge]

And people keep saying they don’t want the ESO People involved in building a mainline game, and the only thing people will keep saying no to is just the fact it’s an MMO and not bother to focus on what it’s done for the world as a whole

Which I still wish people would differentiate a game’s mechanics among other things and instead focus on the actual important aspects that have something’s adoration of something.

[forest surge]

If I could make a good example, Murkmire is just one small Portion of the rest of Black Marsh, and the amount of Lore in just that one expansion alone is crazy.

[pale walrus]

So the ESO writers could potentially make a massive contribution to ES6 from the perspective of expostulating on lore within the context of telling stories in the game. Excellent. Hopefully Bethesda will take advantage of that. There may be a conflict with those people's duties to Zenimax and ESO, but hopefully that can be worked out.

[forest surge]

ZOS has consulted with Bethesda in regards to The Lore when making the game post Base Game, safe to say it’s very evident there is a close knit relationship there.

[pale walrus]

The look and 'feel' of ESO, though, is very MMO. I think it's fair to expect that ES6 will look quite different. I'm guessing Starfield's look is the reference point for what we might expect. Could be wrong about that, though.

[forest surge]

They also did a lot for Reachmen with the Reach Area, so yeah, there’s a lot that tells us they are capable of delivering on a lot of lore.

But considering the focus they need to keep on ESO I don’t know if they would potentially even be considered to pitch in for a mainline Elder Scrolls Game in terms of worldbuilding.

[feral viper]

And if I'm being honest... I think that's what's led to their biggest missteps in my opinion.

Though we don't actually know what parts of the lore and art Bethesda has influence in, so I could be entirely mistaken there.

[livid ingot]

I agree to the extent that TES:O decided to stick so closely to former representations of the provinces I would have preferred if they took more creative risks

Places should not look more or less identical when they're separated by nearly a millennia

But I can understand the appeal. I just would have wanted to see Zenimax's vision for Tamriel, not Beth's

[nimble pond]

I hope they do more with the flora in next game. Man-eating plants and whatnot. Really need some form of jellyfish too, don't ask me why just do

[pale walrus]

How about giant jellyfish controlled by Sload that are used to attack shipping? That could be fun.... 😉

[slow magnet]

Can somebody explain to me the different types of DLC in Elder Scrolls Online?

[feral viper]

Dear TES Castles team.

Why are my Elves dying at the age of 75?

Sincerely... A Grognard.

[wide garnet]

Gee, maybe because they lost their immortality?

[feral viper]

Sure, so they die at 300

Not 75 like a normie round ear.

https://tenor.com/view/unacceptable-adventure-time-lemongrab-freakout-armflail-gif-5515437

[wide garnet]

Then it’s probably because you’re the one getting them killed.

[feral viper]

... I will allow that criticism of my rule. This time.

[dapper lichen]

Please add all the continents into one game for elder scrolls. It would be interesting.

[pale walrus]

For my part, I would be immensely pleased if ESO could be turned into a single player game and, once all the provinces are 'open', the provinces would all be 'filled out' to near the level of a single player title. You could then go from province to province, get into a tremendous number of adventures, and explore the continent. Completing your adventures would take probably a decade. The game would be very expensive (I bet you could command a price around $500) but would be worth it. The graphics would have to be upgraded quite dramatically, so the studio development effort would be staggering. But that would be the game of games for me.

[nimble pond]

EE reference, in a time of many heroes..

[opaque ingot]

Fake elves

[dapper lichen]

True but gta 6 will supposidly have all maps from previous games i don’t see it as impossible for a game like this to have most if not all continents or the only 2 major ones

Also what I’m really hoping what Bethesda will do is add a “midevil or ancient” style settlement building system in elder scrolls 6

[dapper lichen]

Like with midevil or ancient style building structures and materials

[dapper lichen]

Do we have any sort of “teasers or information” as to where elder scrolls 6 will be?

[scenic spade]

Many people believe it will be on Hammerfell. I personally believe it will be on High Rock.

[livid ingot]

https://youtu.be/OkFdqqyI8y4?si=xKITlfrsnunMTAmc

https://twitter.com/ElderScrolls/status/1344674735901339648?s=20

And that's about it.

I haven't heard of any potential TES 6 teasers in Starfield.

[dapper lichen]

Is that the one with Al likir agents I forgot the elderscrolls race for that

[scenic spade]

Hammerfell is the home of the Redguard/Alik'r. High Rock is the home of the Bretons.

[dapper lichen]

Oh

[dapper lichen]

Oh wait if I’m not mistaken I think those are the races originally from the former island of yokuda now in ruins under the sea

[scenic spade]

Redguards, the black people of the Elder Scrolls, are from Yokuda. Yes.

I love the Redguards, man.

[dapper lichen]

Hmm I took them for being more inspired by middle eastern culture

[scenic spade]

Yeah, I agree. But they look like Africans.

[dapper lichen]

True

Redguards are pretty cool though. We’re they right for taking the woman from whiterun stables back to hammerfell?

[scenic spade]

Hahahahaha!!!! It's funny you ask that! That's one of the most asked questions about Skyrim lore! lol

Nobody knows.

[dapper lichen]

She had to have been charged with serious crimes.

[dapper lichen]

Or a tyrannical government didn’t like what she said

[scenic spade]

I have several Skyrim campaigns. I think on one of them, I decided to protect Saadia (the lady in the tavern) from the Alik'r simply because I wanted to fight the Alik'r and grab their weapons and outfits.

So now my Dragonborn is sometimes wearing Hammerfell garb.

[dapper lichen]

Even with enchantments it looks sick

[scenic spade]

It looks great, yeah.

However, I found it weird that their swords (scimitar) were very underpowered.

They're like... As weak as an iron sword.

[dapper lichen]

Even with upgrades?

[scenic spade]

No. I only meant the base stats.

[pale walrus]

There's the 2018 teaser vid. Beyond that, there was an interview many years ago where some executive (Todd Howard, maybe?) apparently said that he saw a remake of ES2 as an attractive idea. That's what ES6 will be, I think.

The Redguard society, if you read uesp.net, sounds like a mix of several cultures - Zulu, Japanese and Arab. It is likely the game will be filled with surprises for us - the culture will be very unique and a product of the imagination of the developers. After all, combining elements from such different cultures is bound to be extremely interesting. Hammerfell as a province is also very rich in history and lore - maybe the most complex and unique in the entire series.

[floral wadi]

i just got skyrim avers

[scenic spade]

Anniversary Edition, you mean?

Have fun. Skyrim is one of the best games of all time.

[pale walrus]

"Avers" is a latin word. It means "he asserts" or "he owns that property." I think. It's also a town in Switzerland.

[dapper lichen]

What does the do not delete chests do under the map/s?

[feral viper]

Typically they are the money and inventory storage for vendors and quest rewards.

[dapper lichen]

So if you delete it it breaks the game so it’s unplayable?

[feral viper]

I can't say for sure, as I've not tried. I don't recommend it though.

[eager remnant]

I wouldn't recommend it either. At the very least it would result in merchants with no inventories.

[dapper lichen]

Wow

[dapper lichen]

Are the dark elves considered evil due to their worship of daedra?

[pale walrus]

I would not consider them so. After all, not all the daedra are like Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon. Granted, a majority of the Daedra are jerks, but they aren't all bad. Azura and Meridia stand out as 'good' daedra.

To be clear: the dunmer think of Azura, Mephala and Boethiah as 'good' daedra. Azura clearly shows goodwill towards the Dunmer. Boethiah, nasty as she is, seems to believe in a kind of 'tough love' for the dunmer. I don't really understand Mephala's goals or interests, but she is considered a 'good' daedra as well by the Dunmer. They consider Molag Bal, Mehrunes Dagon, Malacath and Sheogorath as 'bad' daedra. The first two are obvious - they are malevolent beings. Not sure why they have a beef with Malacath or Sheogorath, though.

[eternal laurel]

Hey, sorry to jump right in here with this kind of question, but is this conversation about Elder Scrolls Online? And if not, what is Elder Scrolls VI? I've heard of it and I'm wondering how is it different from ESO? The same with Skyrim and a few others... it's a place in ESO, but it's also its own game?

[pale walrus]

We aren't actually talking about ESO here except as a reference to it when necessary as part of the conversation. I think there is a chat dedicated to ESO somewhere. Other than ESO, the Elder Scrolls is a series of game titles which are all single player. Normally they focus on only one province at a time - ES 3 was Morrowind (mostly Vvardenfell), ES4 was Cyrodiil, ES5 was Skyrim. It is widely believed (but as yet unconfirmed) that ES 6 will be a revisit to Hammerfell, which was originally visited in ES 2 (which was a combination of Hammerfell and a significant portion of High Rock.)

[eternal laurel]

Thank you, I wonder if I would enjoy the single player since I mostly play ESO solo. If you know of a thread that might compare the 2 please let me know. If not no biggy, thanks for your explanation!

[eager remnant]

I play ESO solo too. If you like to play ESO that way you will probably ike the single-player games as well.

[pale walrus]

If you mostly play ESO solo, it suggests you might enjoy a dedicated single player experience. You'll notice some differences - one is graphics, the other is that you won't see other people swarming around the area like shadows trying to complete the same quest, and you also won't have other players challenging you to combat. I'm not sure where you should start with the single player ES games, though. Morrowind (ES 3) was a huge success. By today's standards, the graphics are stone age. Nonetheless, the story is extremely rich. My own personal preference is Skyrim (ES 5.) I found it very pleasing to the eye and found that a single playthrough could consume 400-500 hours, so it is incredibly rich in content.

[eternal laurel]

I love the crafting, and the collections for example, is that part of the single player games. And the housing is fun too, even if I don't have people over 😄

[pale walrus]

Crafting is a big part of skyrim. It lacks spellcrafting, though. You can learn and cast spells, but cannot combine them. I believe you can do so with Morrowind. Housing can also be found in Skyrim - you can buy certain properties and customize them, and can also build certain properties from scratch.

[forest surge]

ESO has pretty much given the most lore in close to the last 10 Years as well, Literally the Majority of Wood Elf, Khajiit, Argonian, Reachmen Lore comes from it.

[eager remnant]

Here are the Unofficial Elder Scrolls pages for the last three single-player Elder Scrolls games. You will find all the information you may want there. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Skyrim

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Oblivion

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Morrowind

[forest surge]

It is one of those games though where I suggest playing the Base Game first and foremost honestly because I think it’s best for the player to play through a lot of what’s there and make a decision then if it’s worth it.

[dapper lichen]

When next remaster comes out for Skyrim please I am hoping for settlement building with ancient or midevil style building materials and buildings

[dapper lichen]

I hope it’s added I have a few ideas for some buildings and settlements

[slim berry]

There haven’t been any announcements for another Skyrim remaster.

[pale walrus]

Might want to check the available mods for something like that.

[nimble pond]

Perhaps we will get to Skyrim edition VI before TESVI releases 😆

[slim berry]

Gotta remind us it exists.

[nimble pond]

Never forget too ^_^

Hmm, how about more natural occurring disasters during gameplay? Like I never see any hurricanes, typhoons, earthquakes, tornadoes, hail, smaller volcanic eruptions (not as big as morrowind), water spouts, flash floods. Tsunami, avalanches/rockslides, electrical storms, sand/duststorms, sink-shipping whirlpools, yadda-yadda. Even some new ideas with fantasy would be nice like falling magical meteor storms or oblivion flares. Like I'd like to watch a giant get flung to the sky by a tornado and get a taste of their own medicine for once

[slim berry]

https://tenor.com/view/elmer-fudd-looney-tunes-merrie-melodies-flailing-magic-gif-15409911

[pale walrus]

LOLROFLMAO! I know where that gif is from! 😆

[remote sonnet]

Does anybody know how the High Isle fight scene was made? (The one between the 4 adventurers and the Breton knight)

[feral viper]

Cinematic scenes like that typically require a lot of work in multiple programs, and may include actual motion capture.

[feral viper]

#HoondingForAntagonistTESVI

[verbal kestrel]

Why is the eso euro server not working?

[river cloak]

This is not the eso server however I think there down because maintenance

[verbal kestrel]

Still?

[river cloak]

Doesn’t it end in couple hours ?

[eager remnant]

This is a chat forthe single-player Elder Scrolls games made by Bethesda Game Studios. If you have any questions about Elder Scrolls Online feel free to ask them on the ZeniMax Online forums. You can find them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[hidden herald]

You will not get any help/responses from ZOS here.

[feral viper]

Help? Help!?

There is no help to be found here

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-star-wars-palpatine-laugh-happy-gif-15937554

[tropic patrol]

So what did they do during the down time or do we not know

[hidden herald]

This is not the place to discuss ESO's maintenance, updates, or otherwise. BGS does not equal ZOS.
Lore about the games is fair to discuss so long as it falls within the #rules , but otherwise it's not about a BGS title.

[nimble pond]

Eat sandwiches

[hollow locust]

So what's up with the mods and creation club update

[glacial finch]

I too want to know

[glacial finch]

Those better be Jill Sandwiches 🥪 lol

Just to let yall know fallout 4 is not being affected right now. It's only Skyrim

[feral viper]

You should ask your Thalmor handler.

Just kidding. What's the problem?

[mighty elm]

Just waiting for this maintainence to be done so I can access the mods so I can turn off one so I can elter Windhelm. I'm stuck waiting on the bridge until I can, lol.

[nimble pond]

I am ready to help your cause o great Ulfric, true high king of Skyrim 🙏

[crisp surge]

One doesn't use the power of the voice to userp his king & take the throne. 😄

[mighty elm]

Wait, you want me to turn on Balgruuf? Sorry, I guess I'll just take this crown to Tullius instead.

I just find it strange that Elenwynn who is the Thalmor Anbassador in Skyrim is the same Altmer princess you help in ESO.

Like, what are those "special enforcers" that the queen sent to Skyrim really there for?

[forest surge]

It’s not the same person, it’s just a shared name

[nimble pond]

I just wonder how many M'aiqs there are

[mighty elm]

Oh, its not?

[forest surge]

No, just the same name is all

[polar elm]

Drem yol lok greetings everyone

[drifting lodge]

when will elder scrolls castles be fully released

[graceful flame]

good afternoon

[drifting lodge]

afternoon

[graceful flame]

just joined the server lol

[drifting lodge]

same

[jagged tinsel]

I can't get this thought out of my head but it would be so cool if when the announce elder scrolls 6 it is called elder scrolls: Tamriel, and you get all of Tamriel as the map

[feral viper]

I would not approve.

[jagged tinsel]

Are you sure cause I am currently playing Skyrim which is great I play fallout 4 which is great and I play doom 2016 and eternal which are both great what's to say that haven't spent all the time since the last elder scrolls cooking up an entire continent yes online is well online but that doesn't mean they can't also work on other things

[feral viper]

I am. Morrowind was their last World. Oblivion and Skyrim are Theme Parks in comparison.

Skyrim was definitely an improvement, but they're still nowhere near what I would consider up to snuff for a single province, let alone all of them.

Plus, Doom is a different studio, and unrelated.

[jagged tinsel]

Look ok I don't want to play an RPG type videogame like fallout or the elder scrolls unless I can mod it to my hearts content to get rid of any features I don't like so I think it would be cool to go somewhere I have never been and the only place I have ever been (Skyrim) in the same game that is my reasoning there enough lore in Skyrim that I would like to be part of a continent wide war between the empire and something else

[flint oracle]

What's wrong with vanilla RPG games?

[feral viper]

I think, if we look at Starfield, it would be a good indication of what all of Tamriel would be.

Prefab structures and cardboard cutout bodies are ok in Starfield, since you're dealing with space exploration and billions of humans... But in TES?

I'd rather one well done province than 9 Jemmisons.

[subtle sigil]

love how dismissive people are of the effort put into game development. "theme parks in comparison" great way turn years of work into a bitesized summary of failure

[jagged tinsel]

Carryweight

[flint oracle]

I started with Skyrim only last week, but that gets better as you level up, am I wrong?

[subtle sigil]

yeah and you can easily change it to whatever you with a little power gaming even in vanilla

[flint oracle]

I get hating restrictions and constraints, but that's kind of the point of a game.

There are plenty of things about this engine that powers Skyrim and Fallout 4 that pisses me off, but we deal with it.

[feral viper]

And I stand by it.

Bethesda has shown it's self to be great at creating interesting (if unrefined and in need of polish) new approaches to RPG systems, unbound by often outdated traditions.

But in terms of worldbuilding? They peaked with Morrowind, and after falling flat on Oblivion have been struggling to find their footing since.

[flint oracle]

We do the best we can with what we're given.

[novel roost]

If you don't like it don't play it 🤷🏻‍♀️

[flint oracle]

Bigger map does not necessarily mean better.

[feral viper]

As far as Carryweight... It would be better as an interactive variable rather than a flat limiter..

Starfield sorta plays with this, but doesn't go far enough.

[jagged tinsel]

In my mind the point of the game is to have fun and carryweight makes it harder for me mildly autistic ADHD brain to manage resources and stay alive this more frustration and less fun

My*

[subtle sigil]

i dont think you appreciate what it takes to make a game like morrowind. you cannot replicate a formula, especially when money is more and more the main objective of creating a videogame. criticising games/devs is the lowest form of discourse. and it really should be punishable by gelding.

[novel roost]

I play vanilla on the switch and played modded on the ps4, tbh I play it more on the switch than my ps4

[feral viper]

Which is why I usually also include constructive criticism

[subtle sigil]

a laymans constructive criticism to a technical trade is just criticism

[flint oracle]

I'm with @subtle sigil here. You're being unreasonable with that level of criticism.

[subtle sigil]

not to mention its basically just echoed sentiment of "morrowind goat"

atypical

for you to even come close to being constructive you have to have some tangible inside understanding of the games developments and constraints

(not one person here has that)

[feral viper]

Incorrect in detail, but correct in concept.

[subtle sigil]

are those faust lyrics

im travelling to the tongue

[feral viper]

Though in this case, the point was about the writing and worldbuilding, not the technical side of things.

[subtle sigil]

that is technical dude its all one big team

they still need implementing properly and oftentimes deadlines cut out fat like writing and worldbuilding

[feral viper]

Skyrim and Oblivion in particular suffer from shallow, superficial worldbuilding due to a fear of confusing players. This is a known fact. They even went so far as to strip out the Nord Gods for this reason, something which literally only required using the right names..

[subtle sigil]

if you want worldbuilding just read books, authors got plenty of time to write insane details

can i get some harvard referencing on that known fact please and hold the bias

[feral viper]

When I'm on a phone? Not easily.

But fair

[subtle sigil]

at least you can google "define fact"

[feral viper]

And I see you want to drag this all down into the mud where you can beat me with your experience.

[subtle sigil]

hey is that the moral highground

its so pretty this time of year

[feral viper]

Oh, muffin. If you think that's the high ground, you're going to have a bad time.

[subtle sigil]

if only they got michael kirkbride to write it

[feral viper]

Oh god no.

[flint oracle]

I'd say it's time to put this conversation to bed. It's going nowhere.

[subtle sigil]

isnt that the point in conversation

its just something to pass time before we die

[feral viper]

Kirkbride needs at least 2 layers of filter to make some degree of cohesive sense of his rambling. He gets all the credit for Morrowind, but he was only part of a TEAM that wrote that world..

[jagged tinsel]

I wish I hadn't started an argument with a post basically saying I hope one day I can play an elder scrolls game where the play area is all of Tamriel

[flint oracle]

It's not your fault.

[rustic apex]

Hello, i just bought Skyrim anniversary pack or smth, and my friend has it too, it works for him but i am not able to do the things he can, like the "DLC" quests etc.

Can anyone help me w that?

[feral viper]

Do you have the plugins enabled?

[rustic apex]

Where to do that? 😁 I havent played on my PS for a while

[feral viper]

Ah, that I can't help with. Strictly PC on my end, no idea how anything works on consoles.

[rustic apex]

Thanks for trying to help tho 💪

[pale walrus]

Agreed. I'd like to expand on this. Something I noticed in skyrim: as you travel around the province, you can find some gigantic daedric shrines - boethiah, azura, mehrunes dagon, etc....but the aedra shrines - akatosh, arkay, etc - are tiny, inconspicuous, almost hidden. Why? Also, Shor/Lorkhan is arguably the most important of the Nord dieties, and there is no shrine at all. Another thing: dragons ruled skyrim into the first era, yet there is no 'dragon capital city' and gigantic dragon shrine. How is this possible? Don't get me wrong - skyrim was an insane amount of fun. But describing it as a 'theme park' is probably the most accurate description I've heard. Lore-wise, it lacks the depth of Morrowind, and by quite a degree.

[spare anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/stare-staring-cat-gif-20275090

[feral viper]

Well, as far as the Dragon Capital, the closest we get is Skuldaafin.

But the issue goes deeper than that, at least for me.

Morrowind had the effort put in to creating a unique and distinct culture, with regional differences, internal politics, social structured etc. It had considerations for its environment, it's ecosystems, is religions and mythologies.

Skyrim and Oblivion utterly failed in all these regards. The Imperial Cult became a windowdressed Catholic Church, complete with Cathedrals. The cultures became one dimension paper dolls of real world pop-culture perceptions. The civil, social, and historical aspects of the peoples just... Don't exist.

They're theme parks that have the frontage of a world, but none of the working parts.

Now, could it have been a Lightning in a Bottle thing? Absolutely. I choose to believe that Bethesda does still have the ABILITY, however, even if they haven't shown it since.

And with that in mind, I'd rather they invest the time into making one province great, or even good, rather than spreading that time and effort across 9. Because it doesn't matter how you slice it, you can't achieve the same result spread that thin.

Maybe some day, when cultures and art styles are very clearly established, fleshed out and defined, and you can invest all the time in just making things look modern, and writing stories to fit into those paradigms.

But we're nowhere near that day yet.

Especially considering the effort also needs to be invested in gameplay.

[mighty elm]

Wouldn't the dragon capitol be Bromjunaar/Labrynthian? After all, it is like 4 different locations in one.

But I agree where Elder Scrolls games needs far more physical development, espeially now having to retcon Blades and ESO.

[feral viper]

How the Dragon Cult worked is... Well, never gone into. So we don't know if it's capital was the administrative capital of the conquered Skyrim (first Saarthal then Windhelm) or if it was a dedicated religious capital, in which case it would probably have been Skuldaafin.

Or if it was a decentralised faith with NO capital at all, which were absolutely a thing in the real world..

[feral viper]

Blades and Legends, maybe.

ESO has done more for TES, than Bethesda has in 20 years. So I'd keep it.

And I say that with many criticisms of things in ESO as a matter of public record as well.

[pale walrus]

Granted. But one would think there would have been at least temples and statues scattered around. Example: in the italian city of Assisi, there is a church that was once a temple of Juno. You can see it, and it's quite interesting. In San Quirico d'Orcia, there is a church with some of the wall stones from an Etruscan temple - again, you can see it. The point being: an integration of all the primary aspects of a given civilization - religious, political, social, economic, legal, artistic, including historical leftovers - is a beautiful thing that would greatly enrich ES titles. Morrowind did it, to the point that there almost seemed to be a sci fi element to the place (it was decidedly otherworldly.) Returning to this approach would be a very attractive thing.

[feral viper]

Absolutely. The total lack of ANY evidence of the Falmer is also... Well, ludicrously unlikely.

[mighty elm]

Legends doesn't need to be retconned though. It takes place after Skyrim. ESO takes place before Arena.

[feral viper]

Nah, Legends (the base campaign) takes place during the Great War, 30 years before Skyrim. And it's really the worst part of the whole thing, the expansion stories are 'Eh'.

[mighty elm]

Oh, I thought it took place after Skyrim.

[feral viper]

Or, well, technically Legends takes place AFTER Skyrim, with someone telling you what happened BEFORE it... Because the entire framing device is the old dude telling the story around a camp fire.

As far as ESO goes, all it basically does is fill in a period of a few years in the middle of the Interregnum. Yeah, it sucks that there's no mention of these events in Arena through Skyrim, but that's always the risk of Prequels.

There's no mention of Tiber Septim's brutal subjugation of Hammerfell in Arena and Daggerfall (or Oblivion of Skyrim, but gotta fluff that Talos frill and what not). And yet, Redguard is still both canon, and awesome.

Technically, all of Morrowind's history was a retcon against Daggerfall and Arena, and that worked out for the best.

[mighty elm]

Or the fact that isn't ESO technically the rise of Tiber Septim becoming emperor?

[feral viper]

Nah, it's centuries before Tiber Septim.

ESO takes place, so far, between 2e580 and 2e585.

Tiber Septim is born around 2e828ish.

So Tiber won't be around for 250 years.

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/sillygoose-silly-goose-idiot-gif-18968771

[mighty elm]

Sorry, I can't keep my dynasties in order.

I hear Tharn and I immediately think Jagar

[feral viper]

Same family. Though sometime between ESO and Arena (600ish years) the families power entirely collapses and by the time of Jagar no one even remembers it's older relevance.

[mighty elm]

Well, that explains his anger.

That's what is missing from Skyrim. A Tharn!

We got the Mythic Dawn, Barenziah's crown, M'aiq, why not a Tharn!

[feral viper]

We could always use more Tharns

[forest surge]

We never do hear of them minus some mentions of Jagar in Battlespire, if the Tharn Bloodline dies with Jagar that would be a shame

[feral viper]

Jr. Tharn for Thalmor King 2027

[forest surge]

The biggest tragedy is we never got Legends Art of Jagar, especially considering he is the First TES Villain.

[feral viper]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/3/33/Jagar_Tharn_(Arena).png/revision/latest?cb=20200325155034

You kidding? Look at that... Uuuh... Face?

That's peak Villain.

[forest surge]

I mean I’d be curious to see how he would look.

[feral viper]

You don't get more high Rez than that 😛

[forest surge]

I wonder if Abnur would be ashamed of Jagar

[feral viper]

Absolutely

[forest surge]

Considering Abnur showed no love lost for his Nephew, I believe Javad ending up tortured by Bal

[feral viper]

Assuming the Jagar Conspiracy isn't wrong of course...

[forest surge]

He’s got the moves like Jagar

[crimson ivy]

whens mods back

[feral viper]

But Abnur was also very much in the mind that everything he did was for the Empire, and for Tamriel.

[forest surge]

I think the clear difference however is Jagar wanted Power, Power merely for himself

[feral viper]

Assuming Jagar's motivations are just his personal ambition, as Arena indicates, Abnur would hate his selfish narrow mindedness and lack of loyalty.

Now, there IS the conspiracy that Jagar was in fact trying to prevent the Oblivion Crisis and save Tamriel... But it's a pretty out there conspiracy.

[forest surge]

He did nothing to stop the Simulacrum so already I doubt he had good intentions

[feral viper]

The conspiracy is that he orchestrated the Simulacrum to keep Uriel out of reach of the Dagonites.

It again, it's pretty out there.

[mighty elm]

If anything, he would have made it happen sooner.

[slow garnet]

Trying to imagine if there was any other Tharn that Abnur would have actually approved of...

[mighty elm]

No. That's why he wanted immortality.

[slow garnet]

I suspect the lack of shrines to Shor / Shezarr / Lorkhan is in fact deliberate. He is, after all, the Missing God, the Dead God, the Murdered God, the god of mortals and mortality, of death and the rebirth that is the birth of a new generation rather than the restoration of a past. He is the Ninth of the Eight, and those who would rise to be a ninth - be it Reman, Talos / Tiber Septim or others - must know that eventually, even their godhood will be mortal. The divinity of the Reman dynasty eventually failed, and the Dragonfires went out: the divinity of the Septim dynasty also eventually failed, at the death and sacrifice of Martin Septim... although the result was different, thanks to Martin merging with the power of Akatosh and sealing the gates to Oblivion so that this time there could be no great Daedric invasions.

Skyrim thus has far less of the projection of actual Daedric power into Nirn: as often as not the Daedra are concerning themselves with one small thing, or even one person. Molag Bal contends with Boethiah over Logrolf the Wilful: Namira hosts feasts of cannibalism for half a dozen outcasts led by one priest: Clavicus Vile has few worshippers if any left, and most of them are a small coven of vampires holed up in a cave, whom the player has to slaughter, leaving Vile to toddle off into the sunset with Barbas. Azura may even lose control over her Daedric artifact.

[mighty elm]

Hmm. Think of how long the history of Tamriel is, and now add how long ago shrines would have been destroyed?

Although I do like the falmer ruins mods myself.

[slow garnet]

"how long ago shrines would have been destroyed" - I mean I do not think that many shrines to Lorkhan directly were ever made. That's not in his nature, to be worshipped directly: one might say that when a mortal rises to godhood for a time that seems long by mortal terms but is brief in cosmic terms, they and their worshippers and shrines are an indirect paean to Lorkhan. And when the time comes, they too will pass away, and the Lost Divinity be in abeyance once again until another rises to seize it.

There are still shrines to Talos in Skyrim, as Skyrim clings to its past. The Talos-cultists hang on to them for a mistaken reason, trying to reawaken a fallen divnity: and the Thalmor want them gone for a similarly mistaken reason, not that they wish the old to give way to the new, but they wish it to be destroyed entirely.

[pale walrus]

Incorrect. You don't have to be an expert on a given thing to criticize it constructively. Example: I once drove a Prius. It was a terrible car to drive and absolutely not worth the money to buy, so I told the salesman I didn't like the car and also why, and he showed me a different car which I liked much more.

[unkempt field]

How long will the update run for Skyrim Anniversary Edition for PS4?

[severe moat]

See https://discord.com/channels/784542837596225567/844670931539591185

[mighty elm]

We wi find out around noon

[graceful flame]

evening

[dapper lichen]

Prediction as to why creation club is offline for Skyrim. Prediction #2 (pretty much the same as the first) it’s essentially getting ready for another anniversary update and getting ready to open up new oppertunites for new creation club mods to be created and a total remaster of the whole creation club mechanics and system

[hollow locust]

Even more stuff added to creation club is nice and all, but one of my tiks is browsing mods for a couple hrs before actually playing the game

Makes it hard to do when I've not been able to access for a couple days now

[dapper lichen]

So uh Bethesda mod page back up when?

[tight garnet]

tomorrow about 12p.m

[visual cloak]

Tomottow about 12pm there will be another update on the whole thing. They never said it will be done by then

[tight garnet]

well my bad then, it's how I understood it

Surely this will be done by the end of the afternoon

We can only hope ^^

[visual cloak]

Yes, it will be done by the end of the afternoon

They just never specified afternoon of which day

[eager remnant]

Our next update is projected for tomorrow Friday, December 1st, at 12:00pm EST and hope to have more to share then.

[pale walrus]

"opportunities"

[pale walrus]

what day is 'tomottow'? 😉

[visual cloak]

It's same as tomorrow, but written after quick cig break when it's -10C outside

Also, what exactly is tomorrow? Is this rly an existing day or just empty void people put their hopes and dreams in? After all, right now is "today" but the next day will also be "today". Today IS. Yesterday WAS, but tomorrow will never be

[slow garnet]

Also: You don't have to be a qualified pilot, or indeed a qualified forester, to realise why an aeroplane stuck halfway up a tree is a bad thing.

[toxic lake]

In elder scrolls 6, is Orc hopefully going to have at least 1 active effect when you dont use survival mode? They got the power in skyrim

But maybe they do have that hidden active effect with being friends with orc strongholds but does that count?

[pale walrus]

Huh? I don't understand the question.

[toxic lake]

They don't have a permanent effect like a bonus compared to the rest of the races.

Except for the height bonus where they hit harder and walk faster. What number was that again?

[dim reef]

skyrim still under maintenance?

[eager remnant]

Our next maintencance update is projected for tomorrow Friday, December 1st, at 12:00pm EST and hope to have more intormation to share then.

[pure falcon]

Howdy

[pale walrus]

Welcome, stranger! We're deeply involved in a conversation concerning the maintencance of the Skyrim title which is blocking oppurtunites to use the creation club mods, though it seems the title will be available tomottow. (just teasing, everybody 😉 )

[pure falcon]

I wish it was tomorrow