elder-scrolls-general-chat

[feral viper]

Absolutely. Which highlights that it's entirely possible, they just chose not to actually use it

Which isn't a systemic problem, but rather a usage one.

[dim reef]

If they reintroduce a voiced protagonist in any future games, I hope they ditch the four button system.

[feral viper]

The alternative is the standard intrusive List which comes with all the control limitations that least to traditional Dialogue systems.

Which themselves actively prevent seamless integration and transition

[dim reef]

I 100% think the way BioWare handles the dialogue wheel is better.

[feral viper]

For their sort of game, maybe.

But the problem isn't the Wheel. The wheel is simply a visual element of the interface, it's not the actual mechanics running it in FO4

[dim reef]

The problem with the four button system is that to do what you're asking for requires having one button dedicated to ending the conversation and one button dedicated to a "view more" option. So really you only have two options on each little wheel. That's... that just doesn't sound pleasant.

[feral viper]

The system works just as well with a List, it's the mechanism for selection that's important. By offloading Dialogue selection to secondary inputs, they allow you to maintain direct control of the character.

[feral viper]

Why? Look away and leave. Conversation over.

[dim reef]

Because that's such a terrible way to end a conversation and rather unnatural?

You can do it, but it's weird and not how people typically communicate.

[feral viper]

Because they system doesn't lock you in place by taking away control, you automatically create alternative control schemes. You can have a a Goodbye option, or you can just be rude and leave. It's up to you.

[dim reef]

That's my point. If you want to give players a choice, you're going to be taking up at least one button on one of the wheels for ending the conversation.

[feral viper]

And that's using the same 4 buttons. Using the Dpad (which is underutilized in most games) gives you far more options than any RPG has ever used.

[dim reef]

So you'd end up with maybe 5 actual responses in two little wheels.

[feral viper]

Even at the worst, you'd have 9

[dim reef]

Four little wheels to scroll through?

[feral viper]

Three categories, with 3 options each (reserving one for Back) and then a Goodbye

No scrolling needed.

[dim reef]

That'd be 8 then because one of 'em would have the goodbye. 2 on one category, 3 on the other two.

[feral viper]

All accessable within 3 keystrokes. Whereas it would take 8 keystrokes to access the same number in a conventional model

[dim reef]

Conventional method? What game are you comparing it to?

[feral viper]

Any game with a scroll list

[dim reef]

Like the old games had?

[feral viper]

Yes

[dim reef]

Well that's an unfair comparison imo because it's just not how you'd handle a voiced protagonist.

[feral viper]

I'm talking more generally. Personally, I'd avoid a voiced PC entirely

But, back to work... Going dark for an hour...

[dim reef]

Oh, I'd rather keep the scroll list personally.

For non-voiced PCs.

[feral viper]

For me, it's entirely a matter of function. What approach yields the desired results with the least work.

And I've never been able to figure out how to maintain control and general interaction, with a scroll list.

[delicate ledge]

I'd hate to say it, but I could see them going for an AI voiced protagonist.

You select from a list of premade voices using the voice actors already in the game, and are able to have the more complex dialogue tree while also having a voice.

I don't condone it, but someone is gonna do it sooner or later.

[feral viper]

Nah. That's a legal minefield I doubt they'll risk touching

[dim reef]

And it'll cause whatever studio tries a lot of problems.

[delicate ledge]

Studios are already adding AI clauses to contracts. Voice acting is such an underappreciated field.

[pulsar root]

Makes sense when it comes profiting off a voice and or using AI to make their voice say outrageous stuff. Slightly off topic though.

[dapper lichen]

ive got a question theres a quest bug in skyrim called rescue and its got a vampire master theme quest that only the dawngaurd gives out how do i fix this bug?

[minor pasture]

hey! i’ve got a question! I just downloaded The Anniversary edition on my Xbox Series S and linked my Bethesda account. However when I go click on mods it says it cannot connect to the server. Any idea why? Thanks!! 😊

[livid ingot]

There's a new channel for support-related questions: #1087805579399004210

[harsh plinth]

So I’m confused, is eso not elder scrolls 6

[dim reef]

It is not.

[pulsar root]

No it isn't.

[dim reef]

It's a side game set about 700 years before Arena.

[eager remnant]

Elder Scrolls Online is an MMO developed by ZeniMax Online Studios. TES VI will be a single-player game developed by Bethesda Game Studios.

[scenic spade]

Oh yeah? Visit Valenwood and start chopping some trees. Come back to me if the locals found you delicious.

[harsh plinth]

Alright thx

[slow garnet]

Also, ESO is really kind of a prequel to the whole lot, whereas the regular TES series tend to run in sequential order in the timeline. They were all fairly close to each other in time actually - a matter of a few years, maximum, between their events - until suddenly a 200-year gap to TES V: Skyrim. How big a gap there will be to TES VI is anybody's guess.

[dim reef]

Most of the side games happen outside of sequential order.

Battlespire released after Daggerfall but takes place during the events of Arena. Redguard is the end of the Second Era. The Travels games have weird time frames. Legends takes place cross like 26 years or something and ends in the year Skyrim begins. Blades is like 15ish years before Skyrim.

[sleek mountain]

i thought travels considered as non-canon or something like that.. 🤔

[delicate ledge]

I beta tested ESO back in the day. My one note was how much I loved the celebrity voice cast. The Don Quixote guy was John Cleese, the gandalf guy was Michael Gambon, and my boy Molag Bal was MF-in John Henry Eden himself, Malcolm McDowell.

Although, being honest, I prefer Christopher Corey Smith's performance in Skyrim.

"I WANT HIS SOULLLLLL"

[sleek mountain]

there should be a temporary effect in world activity, like maybe less wild animal/bandit attack settlement or road or more coin appears on merchant or something simple like gift from NPC because you have done a lot of things.

[dim reef]

The major issue with this is it's hard to get them into a studio to return.

Queen Ayrenn was absent in the Summerset expansion because they couldn't get Kate Beckinsale in to record.

[scenic spade]

Question...

Do you all consider the thu'um (dragon shouts) to be magic? Or you'd call it something else?

[dim reef]

It's tonal magic.

[scenic spade]

Please, continue on with your conversation. I never meant to derail the conversation. You can answer it later.

[scenic spade]

... which is different from normal magic?

[dim reef]

No, it's not really different? It's all magic.

Tonal magic is using sound to manipulate reality.

[scenic spade]

lol. Then by that definition, the dwemer were mages. But they weren't. They were technology experts.

[dim reef]

Tonal architecture is a form of tonal magic utilized by the Dwemer. Everything is music at its core. The Dwemer learned how to change the tune. It's why no one has been able to replicate Dwemer metal.

So yes, the Dwemer were mages.

[scenic spade]

Oh. Okay cool.

Thanks.

[dim reef]

Yeah, Kagrenac is called a "magesmith" in a few places.

I assume you know who that is anyway.

[sleek mountain]

There's no "science" in TES 👀 only magic.

[feral viper]

Magic and science are one in the same in TES.

Because the setting is, by it's very nature, magical.

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/magic-dark-gif-23266199

[scenic spade]

This! Absolutely this!

Every object in Mundus is essentially magical. Even garlic has magical properties. Even a Nord's finger has magical properties. The molecular, scientifically-explained components of anything and everything in the Elder Scrolls is magical. This is why alchemy exists in this universe.

[sleek mountain]

system-wise, shout is just special gimmick for TES V skyrim, I think we gonna get something different in next series.

[scenic spade]

I want them to have stuff including some dragon shouts. I wouldn't make it central, but I think it should be there.

[sleek mountain]

for non-dragonborn, it will take a lot of time to learn one word.

[scenic spade]

Good point, honestly.

[sleek mountain]

I think shehai will be great as special power for fighter guild, like werewolf form in skyrim.

once a day power 😛

[scenic spade]

That sounds awesome, to be honest. Especially since it has no daedric patronage to it. It's the Redguard's aedric gods.

[sleek mountain]

hopefully, there's no some urgency main quest for TES VI so most player can enjoy their own pacing? 🤔

[delicate ledge]

Yeah, like Martin being unable to comment on Umaril or Arngeir not saying anything about Miraak.

I was simply enamored with the voice cast at the time.

[eager remnant]

I completely agree. In my opinion Morrowind is the game that does this best. The worst is Oblivion. Skyrim lies somewhere in between. Personally I would like to see Bethesda return to Morrowind's approach.

[delicate ledge]

There's no rush. Martin can wait in Kvatch until the 5th era.

I usually do all the guild quests first because there's no reason to do Kvatch and trigger gates across Tamriel.

I'd say Skyrim, though, there is at least a reason to trigger dragon spawns because you want to use your shouts.

But this is purely meta-gaming.

[sleek mountain]

uh are any guild quests from oblivion have any connection with main quest ? feel like they just.. there..

[north inlet]

Not really

[delicate ledge]

They don't need to tie together.

[eager remnant]

That is true. And I often leave him there myself. But before that, the Emperor himself shoves arguably the most important artifact on all of Tamriel into our hands and tells us we have to get it to safety right now because the fate of life as we know it hangs in the balance. That kind of urgency - before we are even out of the tutorial - is what I would like Bethesda to avoid in TES VI.

[delicate ledge]

Do the Dark Brotherhood have anything to do with Dagoth Ur?

[sleek mountain]

i mean skyrim at least you need trigger main quest for dragon hunting of companions or alteration master quest of college. 🤔

[north inlet]

Yeah but that's skyrim

[sleek mountain]

yeah, bit connection to guild is nice tho like we're directed to brynjolf for main quest in skyrim.

[north inlet]

It's every quest line

[delicate ledge]

Being an Oblivion fan is weird, because you're caught between the Skyrim fans and Morrowind fans.

I like the epic feel. I like the lush landscape. I like the dopey NPCs. Yeah, the combat sucks, but the eccentric nature of the world is a draw to me.

[north inlet]

Quite annoying

[north inlet]

I believe cyrodil is like that in the lore

[delicate ledge]

It's supposed to be more rain forest like and a bunch of other stuff people complain about, but I just liked it. Especially the imperial city. You can spend an entire play session there just doing random quests and never even have to leave the city.

There isn't anything like that in Skyrim.

[eager remnant]

I've been pretty hard on Oblivion, but one of the things I love about the game is the landscape of Cyrodiil. I particularly like The Great Forest area. I grew up in a wooded area so it feels right at home to me. I also very much like The Gold Coast. And the other thing I absolutely love about Oblivion is Jeremy Soule's beautiful, evocative music. That is something I will never tire of.

[sleek mountain]

thanks to autismcat series video, i kinda like with oblivion graphic lol.

[eager remnant]

I don't use graphic mods when I play Oblivion (aside from a new hairstyle for my player character). I actually prefer Oblivion's vanilla graphics.

[delicate ledge]

Reign of the Septims hits HARD

[dim reef]

I like a lot about Oblivion, but it will always leave a sour taste in my mouth because of how much the lore of the province was ignored or changed simply to make an epic Tolkien-esque adventure game.

But when I look past that, it has so many fun quests and great characters. The cities all have a unique vibe that I really enjoy strolling through. I wish the dungeons weren't just the same thing copy and pasted though.

[delicate ledge]

To be fair, that's endemic to every Bethesda game I've played. Fallout 3, Fallout 4, and Skyrim all felt like they had a few stock dungeons that they repeated ad nauseam.

It'd be cool to have hand crafted dungeons with all unique designs and no repetition, but it's unfeasible.

[dim reef]

Fallout 3, sure. Same time period. Fallout 4 and Skyrim have a lot more variety even with some repetition here and there.

[delicate ledge]

I just hate the abandoned fort design in Skyrim.

It feels like every fort is the exact same. It's either a tower or a sprawling complex.

[dim reef]

Yeah... I wasn't even thinking about them. 💀

I forget they exist. None of them are interesting.

[delicate ledge]

Even the unique underground fort is repeated, with the Moth Priest and Wolf Queen quest both having one.

[scenic spade]

Korra, do you consider Oblivion's to be better? Good God those are some depressing-looking forts.

And usually populated by overpowered trolls or dreughs.

[dim reef]

That's just the Cyrodiil flair!

[livid ingot]

What type of dungeons do we want in TES:6? Let's assume Hammerfell.

Dwemer Ruins are a shoe-in. Yokudan ruins also an obvious choice. Caves are likely...

I think the old TR project also considered Nedic ruins

And I would suggest Aldmeri ruins.

Sunken ships, abandoned forts, off-shore tomb complexes?

[dim reef]

Nedic ruins probably exist. Nedes did inhabit it at one point, but I'm not sure how much would be left at this point.

[pulsar root]

Thalmor secret hideout dungeon. Cause those snakes don't give up easily.

[dim reef]

I just want Scourg Barrow and the Worm Cult.

[dim reef]

Ah if only we could have Lovecraftian like horrors that make the Daedra and Alduin look like angels.

[wide garnet]

I thought we already had something like that. Doesn’t Herma Mora count?

[dim reef]

Isn't he a Daedra?

I meant something more along the lines of Nyarlathotep.

[wide garnet]

… I’ll let the Bethesda people handle that.

[dim reef]

Oh I'm sure they could make some primordial eldritch horrors that'll give you nightmares if they put their minds to it.

As long as it's not a clown those things are really creepy.

[pulsar root]

I wouldn't mind Bethesda's take on well eldrich horror flesh monsters.

[dim reef]

But I still wouldn't put it past them to us something like this.

https://tenor.com/view/warren-leight-gif-24451575

[sleek mountain]

well dwemer, ayleid, nedic, nordic, yokuda/ra gada ruin should exist in that region lol.

8 major cities of hammerfell and 1 island dlc in stros m'kai 😛

[slow garnet]

Dagoth Ur and the Dark Brotherhood? No connection. If Dagoth Ur made use of an assassins guild at all, he would use the Morag Tong - though he doesn't do that. In TES III Morrowind, though, his cult does have some connection with the Camonna Tong, which will also murder for hire but is really more of a general criminal organisation: at least, the Sixth House use the Camonna for smuggling ash statues to places where they can cause the most havoc, and the Camonna go along with the Sixth House because of their shared racism against the n'wah.

The Dark Brotherhood have an independent presence in the game - two separate independent presences in fact. Its Vvardenfell chapter, led from Ald Sotha by Severa Magia (who has, heretically, taken the title of "Night Mother" for herself) has turned to the worship of Mehrunes Dagon, and is at war with the Morag Tong and eventually gets wiped out by them. Meanwhile, the assassins that actually are sent after you (if you have installed "Tribunal") actually are being sent from the Mournhold branch of the Brotherhood, headed by Dandras Vules. This branch of the Brotherhood appears to have completely abandoned any worship of Sithis or reference to the Night Mother, and become merely a powerful organisation of assassins for hire: but their paymaster appears to be none other than King Helseth himself... fearing that a Nerevarine (whether you're an Imperial-agent fake, as you're originally being set up to be, or turn out to be the real thing, as you end up being) would challenge his own power base and his rule. Once he finds out you don't intend to replace him (and that you're strong enough to fight your way right into the Brotherhood lair and slaughter most of them), he's happy to try and use you instead, in his own power struggle against Almalexia.

[dim reef]

It's relevant to note that the Dark Brotherhood's lore regarding the Night Mother and the "dark Christian" influence they have was added in Oblivion not Morrowind.

So, at the time, Severa Magia's actions weren't heretical. That's simply what the leader was called.

Thusly, the Mournhold chapter similarly just kind of exists as a guild of assassins 'cause the whole Sithis and Night Mother stuff just wasn't a thing yet.

[sleek mountain]

why people of morrowind need DB when morag tong is exist. 👀

[dim reef]

Dark Brotherhood was spread across the continent, not bound by the Tribunal's will and were also not a legal organization.

[sleek mountain]

that's why i said people of morrowind, oh didn't know why they related to tribunal 🤔

as vivec is mephala's anticipation?

[dim reef]

The Morag Tong were only allowed to continue existing after the Tribunal took power if they swore fealty to Vivec.

So they haven't worshipped Mephala herself in a while.

[sleek mountain]

in skyrim, they just become lowly assassin. such sad fate.

[dim reef]

Because they're technically not official anymore.

The Morag Tong dissolved after Red Year, so the ones in Skyrim are just a remnant cell that refused to totally disappear.

[pulsar root]

Do they ooperate in one province?

[dim reef]

Morag Tong? Yeah.

[slow garnet]

Okay, so it can be kind of retconned that the Vvardenfell and Mournhold branches of the Brotherhood didn't follow the Sithis religion (and, probably, that the branches active in High Rock and Hammerfell at the time of "Daggerfall" also didn't.)

That's kind of a plot point in Skyrim too - Astrid is not a true believer, nor are many of the others in the Falkreath Sanctum, and they get rather shaken up when a real True Believer (Cicero the Jester) arrives with the actual corpse that is, or represents, the Night Mother. Maybe we can assume that going secular and retreating from the religious veneration of Sithis is actually a reasonably common thing in the Dark Brotherhood - after all, that stuff, and the whole Black Sacrament and all it entails, might be too creepy even for a brotherhood of assassins? (Even as early as the Second-Era timeline of ESO, there are still many murder contracts that are not Black Sacraments - indeed, the simple repeatable daily quests given by Elam Drals are just that, financial murder contracts.)

Suggested retcon/plot point: In fact, Night Mother and Sithis veneration might have been limited to the immediate area of where the actual mummified corpse was kept, which for a long time was mostly in Bravil, the sanctuary whose sacking in the Fourth Age caused Cicero to smuggle the corpse out and make for Falkreath with it.

We learn from the "2920: Last Year of the First Era" book series that, at that time, the leader of the Morag Tong herself was referred to as the Night Mother - so the idea of a Night Mother predates the Dark Brotherhood itself, as does the idea that the title might be taken by an actual person rather than a mythical religious figure...

(And yes this sort of thing happens in real world religions too, with weird traditions that have multiple conflicting accounts of how they started, or schisms over their meaning, whether a title was allowed to belong to a living person or only to mythical or deceased figures...)

[feral viper]

I'd rather just retcon the entire Oblivion Dark Brotherhood

Make Morrowind's brotherhood the canon one again, and ignore everything Oblivion did.

[slow garnet]

Well yeah, BUT, then that also means you have to decanonize the Skyrim version (set 200 years after Morrowind and Oblivion) AND the ESO version (set 800 years earlier, but having more in common with the Oblivion version and the religious side of the Skyrim version).

[delicate ledge]

Why would you decanonize the best DB? A bunch of goofy idiots who kill people, headed by the second best Wes Johnson Character.

[feral viper]

Well, because they're just silly. The Dark Brotherhood is about as scary as a Sunday morning cartoon villian, and just about as well designed. It completely breaks down on any sort of scale, and basically just exists 'Cause we said'

[feral viper]

Oh, I know. I was being hyperbolic. Most of Oblivion could be comfortable retconed out of existence, IMO, but it would take so much work and ultimately piss off so many people it's probably not worth the effort.

Fixing the worldbuilding issues of Oblivion are also rather steep slopes to climb, of course, unless you just handwave them away and never talk about it again.

[dim reef]

Personally, I'd retcon it the other way.

Pretend Daggerfall and Morrowind did venerate Sithis and the Night Mother.

Lore created later tends to just be retroactively assumed. I think ESO reinforces that.

[feral viper]

The new stuff is just so much worse thiugh

[dim reef]

We know you feel that way, Terical. :)

[feral viper]

With most of Oblivion, it's largely taste. Yes. But the Dark Brotherhood is different.

The Oblivion Brotherhood simply doesn't work, even by it's own internal logic and narrative. It suffers from the opposite of Worldbuilders Disease.

[pulsar root]

Shakes head You might be overthinking it.

[delicate ledge]

This is a world with reality bending parchment and trickster gods with heady Scottish brogues and if a character realizes they're in a video game, they blink out of existence.

I think we can tolerate some eccentricities in the narrative.

How were the Elder Scrolls used in Morrowind? Because I actually really liked how they were implemented in Oblivion, where they have nothing to do with the calamity at hand, but are still involved as their own thing.

[dim reef]

That's not what the Dream is. 😭

[feral viper]

Its beyond simple eccentricities. The simple leadership structure doesn't hold up to any sense of scale, the actual plot collapses under any scrutiny, and the cult it's self is simply unsustainable beyond maybe 100 members.

[feral viper]

They weren't. They were locked in a library thousands of kilometers away

And their only mention is that the Nerevarine Prophecy was mentioned in one of them, and the Empire figured they could use that to manipulate Morrowind.

[delicate ledge]

Better than Skyrim where it's like "oh, actually, there are three separate elder scrolls scattered across Skyrim".

[feral viper]

Skyrim actually explains that, though you have to dig a bit.

[dim reef]

Only two are in Skyrim, technically.

Valerica is in Oblivion.

[feral viper]

The Scrolls have always been a little... Erratic, and somehow during the sack of the Imperial City the Scrolls 'Escaped'

[delicate ledge]

That is actually cool

The Scrolls are like Sauron's Ring. They have a will of their own.

[dim reef]

The Scrolls kind of have a mind of their own. If they needed to stay in one place to fulfill a purpose, they would.

[feral viper]

All Artifacts do, really.

Even Auriel's bow has a habit of 'leaving' one person's possession and reappearing elsewhere

[dim reef]

Well artifacts are more just an extension of a god, so they follow the will of whatever deity they're associated with.

[delicate ledge]

Also, back to Zephyr's correction, aren't Elder Scrolls like pieces of reality? And they make a big deal about how hard it is to go to the Soul Cairn, so... How did Valerica get an Elder Scroll there?

[feral viper]

To an extent, anyway. There do seem to be ways to subvert that will. Azura's Star, and the Mace of Molag Bal serving as examples

[pulsar root]

I mean two of them being in Skyrim is...odd but I can buy the idea that its for some big uber plot relevance. That is as far as I would go.

[dim reef]

She walked in through a portal with it.

[feral viper]

Considering how many of them there are... I'd be surprised if there are ONLY 2 in Skyrim

[delicate ledge]

But shouldn't it be bound to Mundus since it's like the fabric of reality?

[dim reef]

You can leave the realm you are bound by, but you lose all safety measures.

[feral viper]

Removing it from Mundus may just make it less... Jumpy

[dim reef]

Yeah, it's likely unable to vanish from Valerica inside the Soul Cairn.

[feral viper]

We also never see anyone read it in Soul Cairn, so it may not actually record anything useful there.

[dim reef]

This is sort of theory more than fact. A Daedra can go to Aetherius, but they'd likely die die if they were killed. Their Daedric soul unable to reach the Chaotic Creatia of Oblivion.

[feral viper]

Similar to how they go blank when there is a Dragonbreak.

[feral viper]

That's the moral assumption, but not actually tested. All that we know is they don't want to talk about it.

It's equally possible that they just get lost, rather than die, being separated from familiar creatia they could use to reform a familiar body.

In fact, their reaction to the idea doesn't really scream death, since they don't really have a concept of it. Like Dragons. Being Lost fits more with what we know about exactly WHAT Daedra are.

[dim reef]

Eh, who is to say that being lost isn't essentially death to them? How would we know if they retained their sentience upon being slain and unable to return to that familiar creatia?

[feral viper]

Well, because they retain their sentience through death anyway. Being lost wouldn't change that.

[dim reef]

Do they? Is that stated? I thought sentience didn't return until they were reformed.

[feral viper]

What it would, would likely result in near madness, without the ability to reform and create the mechanisms for sensation. Like an eternity in a Sensory Deprevation Champer

Death would be preferable

I isn't stated explicitly that they retain their sentience when reforming, no. However, since Souls generally remain sentient, I would say the it's pretty likely.

The cardinal different between Mortals and Daedra is... Mortals go to their Afterlife. Daedra reform at home.

Though, an immortal afterlife for the soul does undermine the entire concept of Death in the first place... But THAT is definitely overthinking it.

[dim reef]

That's true. I forgot that soul gems essentially function as a prison for a still sentient soul until used.

[prime marlin]

using a soul gem is usually trading the soul to the ideal masters for power

[split lantern]

ok

[nimble pond]

So, with all the game delays in general as well as starfield being delayed multiple times. Who thinks TES6 will still make it this decade or be pushed back to the 2030s?

[dim reef]

I think it'll still be this decade. My guess has been 2028 for a bit.

[nimble pond]

Ik, ik 4-5 year cycle, usually.

[eager remnant]

I expect a TES VI release around 2027-2028.

[nimble pond]

🤞

It certainly sounds better than 2030s ..oof

[sleek mountain]

there still time for skyblivion then 😄

[nimble pond]

Ah another lovely skyrim edition to add

[prime marlin]

it will release when it releases devs dont have a make game button

modders dont have a make mod button

[nimble pond]

Theoretically tho.. if they did have the kind of button you mention, how would it work?

[dim reef]

Magically, I assume!

[sleek mountain]

tbf, gonna be busy playing StarField for years lol

and their mods. so developer can take their time freely.

[nimble pond]

Alteration or Illusion??

[dim reef]

🤔

Mysticism

[pulsar root]

2030s is gonna be interesting in general but.... yes ES VI

[nimble pond]

2030s.. after the bombs dropped, Fallout 5

[nimble pond]

I need to mod Animal in as a bard.. https://media.tenor.com/Qw368qbWocsAAAAd/animal-electric-mayhem.gif

[wide garnet]

Floyd: Bad Animal! Down! Sit! Stay!

[nimble pond]

Yea, so long to your sneak skill banging that drum like an animal 🤪

[dim reef]

As much as I like Skyrim are somethings that Skyrim doesn’t have that only oblivion and morrowind had

[feral viper]

IMO there is nothing positive that Oblivion had, that Skyrim did not.

[vital gazelle]

spell crafting?

that is an objective edge Oblivion had

[north inlet]

Very much so

Really good system for the time

[dim reef]

Oblivion had the class system, but that's purely subjective because I'm a sucker for class systems. :P

[vital gazelle]

the magic crafting is only an objective bonus because it's 100% optional

[dim reef]

And also makes sense. Mages craft new spells fairly often. We see it in Skyrim. Just can't do it ourselves.

Tfw Skyrim allows you to be an amazing enchanter but can't even make a new spell.

[north inlet]

I'd say oblivion had a better skill system too

[feral viper]

Terrible. I would say Skyrim's magic is better without Oblivion's tacked on CK intrusion.

Is behaviourally more varied, despite its smaller list of effects, and has far more engagement with the world and action than anything you could manage in Oblivion, even with it's poorly integrated Spell Crafting

[pulsar root]

Oblivion and its level scaling.❌ ❌ ❌ don't @ me >.>

[feral viper]

Nah, cookie cutter skills that made everyone always the same.

[north inlet]

Agree to disagree

[dim reef]

I wonder if spellcrafting was absent because translating it to the new system for how magic works was too difficult.

[north inlet]

It was too op and yeah the engine probably had issues

[dim reef]

"Too op" would be a silly excuse given how op pretty much everything can be in Skyrim.

[north inlet]

Exactly

Just poor design for magic in skyrim

[dim reef]

Magic is fine. Can be just as powerful a resource.

[pulsar root]

Spells in one hand or two hands is where I go "Ok this is dumb" Sorry Todd.

[north inlet]

It's all the same

Fire, ice and shock

No innovation

Sure, you can say oblivion is the same but at least you could create your own custom spells

[dim reef]

I dunno, I think it's a lot cooler than the previous system.

[north inlet]

I wish that were the case 👍

[dim reef]

Whipping your hands out from your side to cast just looks dull af.

[pulsar root]

Its annoying having to requip your weapon if you are fond of using Magic and a weapon.

[dim reef]

I dunno, I think it's an improvement overall, even if it came with some drawbacks.

[north inlet]

Like I said it's bad design

[dim reef]

Subjectively.

[feral viper]

For skills, it's not something you can disagree with. It's just a fact

[pulsar root]

Thankfully theres a mod(well two) that sorta alleviates that tedium but...my point stands.

[feral viper]

You can not like it, but the fact is, Oblivion's Skills are cookie cutter

[dim reef]

Not just spell crafting
There are other stuff as well

Number one is the armour

In Morrowind and oblivion armour pieces is separate with Greaves and Cuirass

In Skyrim, both of those are combined together, meaning that you can’t make a mix between light or heavy armour

You can but it’s only boots, gloves, and helmets

[feral viper]

Which is it's self fine, though stylistically kind of a bummer. Especially given the actively detrimental Light and Heavy system

But, while Skyrim is at least a window dressing step down from Morrowind, it's at worst a sidestep in that regard to Oblivion

[dim reef]

Speaking about armour

Morrowind is the only game to have medium armour

I don’t know why they didn’t add that to oblivion and Skyrim

[feral viper]

Again, not actually a loss. And Light and Heavy should gntoo

[eager remnant]

I think Skyrim's magic system is superior to Morrowind's and Oblivion's in every possible way. I would have liked a few more spells, though.

I might support the re-introduction of spellcrafting in TES VI...but only if it is completely reworked, from the ground up.

[frosty patrol]

I will agree here Skyrim's magic system is better than Morrowind and Oblivion, but what I wish Skyrim had to make magic/spells better would be if BGS added spell-making. Spell-making made Morrowind and Oblivion's magic better.

[north inlet]

I'm upset Bethesda cut down on a lot of stuff over each ES game

It's an RPG so why cut it out?

[dim reef]

Is it because of the feedback?

[north inlet]

Various reasons I guess

[frosty patrol]

Also was upset when BGS removed armor & weapons breaking in Skyrim. Thankfully they slowly are bringing it back The Elder Scrolls Blades on the mobile phones has armor and weapons breaking and Starfield has a health/condition type of thing for all armor. Fallout 4 had only the Power Armor breaking.

[pulsar root]

No thanks.

[frosty patrol]

Yes please and thank you BGS for bringing armor/weapons durability back!

[north inlet]

That's a mobile game 😆

Those don't count

[frosty patrol]

Uh its that BGS brought it back

[north inlet]

Some of y'all need to stop breathing that copium

[frosty patrol]

What are you talking about my dude?

[north inlet]

Of course

[frosty patrol]

Ok then if you will not answer then I am moving on.

[north inlet]

Pls do.

[nimble pond]

Yes spell-making plz. Some days I want to shoot blue fire instead of orange, give flames a wider spread at the cost of less dmg, or just mix fire with electricity so I have sparks rotating around the flames and impacting foes with multiple magical effects. I mean they had chaos spells already in Skyrim.. So many beautiful modding options on guns in their other games, let me have that variety with spells.. and for melee weapons too. Don't forget armor.
Just let me make my own spells personal to me.

[north inlet]

Something like that would be cool

[frosty patrol]

I remember making all these weird spells in Morrowind by combining them. I really miss that in Skyrim.

[north inlet]

The master spells are somewhat different

[feral viper]

Because... A lot of those things aren't actually that good? And many actively make RPGs worse?

[frosty patrol]

Also the armor piece meal system Morrowind has I miss in both Oblivion and Skyrim, BGS did kind of bring it back in Fallout 4 though.

[feral viper]

Now, I'm not saying that I wouldn't like Spellmaking back. But if Skyrim's superior magic system was the price? I'll pay that.

[north inlet]

How is Skyrim's magic system superior?

[frosty patrol]

Spell-making and armor/weapon durability made Morrowind and Oblivion good. If you disagree well we are at a agree to disagree point, because I myself feel Morrowind/Oblivion was better for having those.

[feral viper]

Because it combines multiple behavioural effects to create functionally unique spells, instead of just reskinned balls that apply different effects.

[frosty patrol]

Duel wielding spells is what people are saying makes Skyrims magic system better, but we all agree BGS should of added spell-making back on top of that.

[north inlet]

You don't need spell making to make magic viable

[frosty patrol]

Dude spell-making is so much fun in Morrowind.

[north inlet]

I'm not talking about what people like

I'm talking about game design

[feral viper]

No, you don't. And while it's an interesting concept, the inclusion of a more robust and complex behavioural system over what is basically a Magic Gun model is what makes Skyrim superior in that regard.

[frosty patrol]

Ah ok.

[feral viper]

What Skyrim lacked, and generally lacks across the board, is enough variables and inclusions in its superior systems to make them shine.

[north inlet]

Which makes it a bad magic system

It's bad design in general

[frosty patrol]

I also miss the skills Morrowind/Oblivion has you know athletics, hand-to-hand. Wish Skyrim had all those skills back, including climbing which was in Daggerfall and in The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard.

[feral viper]

It really isn't. Make a Wall of Fire spell in Oblivion. You can't.

You can in Skyrim.

[north inlet]

Ok, is it usable like actually good to use in combat? Not really

[frosty patrol]

Base vanilla version of Oblivion you can't, but with mods you can!

[feral viper]

That's irrelevant. It's a vastly superior design. The fact that Bethesda didn't actually polish it up doesn't mean the design is bad.

[north inlet]

Mods are out of the question

[frosty patrol]

I know I'm just pointing out you can with mods.

[feral viper]

You might as well say Horses are better, because the first steam engine only ran for 3 minutes

[north inlet]

That's such a bad take 😆

[feral viper]

So is thinking Oblivion was better than Skyrim

[nimble pond]

They could add more skills with the current skill tree they setup for skyrim. Basically just add sub-groups within the appropriate skill tree.

[north inlet]

Each game has their own rights and wrongs

[feral viper]

And Oblivion is mostly wrongs.

[north inlet]

So is skyrim if you pick it apart

I don't understand what you're trying to point out

[feral viper]

Skyrim unfortunately hamstrung it's self using the Constellations to define it's Perks.

[feral viper]

That when you pick all 3 games apart, Oblivion comes up the shortest.

[north inlet]

Then you can't say oblivion is worse if you pick all 3 apart

Each game does better in certain areas while others don't

No point in arguing about it

[feral viper]

Skyrim has the most mechanical potential, but generally fails to utilise that potential at every turn. Morrowind has lacks a lot of potential, but maximises it's perception of depth. Oblivion ultimately fails to do either.

[frosty patrol]

I got mods that add like 30 different skills in different sub-categories in the skill tree.

[nimble pond]

They could expand on it is what I'm saying, like a cluster of relevant perks around the main constellation perk..

[feral viper]

About the only thing Oblivion did that was an improvement was make it so you could actually hit things when you swung.

[frosty patrol]

There is a mod that redoes the skill tree and adds a bunch of sub-categories for skills.

[feral viper]

Oh absolutely. Though I'd honestly just abandon the constellation visual entirely.

It's an artificial limitation that doesn't add anything, beyond looking 'cool'

[nimble pond]

I mean they could, it would work either way.

They could do a different theme for each title

[north inlet]

There's limitations to making a game but I fault 4 and 5 for a lot of reasons

[feral viper]

And that's fine. Skyrim has a lot of flaws

[north inlet]

Really, both games have terrible skill systems

Not to mention oblivion was rushed

[feral viper]

Nah, Skyrim's skill system is amazing. It's just poorly used.

[weary smelt]

I don’t really have much of an informed opinion on Morrowind or Oblivion's magic/skill systems. I just kinda play games to enjoy them.

[feral viper]

We've had so long since Skyrim, I've had a lot of time to think

Skyrim, with a little bit of Fallout 4, and some more thoughtful use, could make a truly revolutionary RPG

[weary smelt]

To think I was 16 when Skyrim first came out in 2011.

[feral viper]

Which makes things doubly frustrating, since sometimes looking at Bethesda's games is like watching a toddler try to match shapes to holes. It's just so close to amazing... And they can't quite make it fit.

[pulsar root]

21 but I wasn't totally aware of it yet.

[feral viper]

I was ... 29...

No, wait, I am bad at math

[nimble pond]

I mean you can make most any class you can think up with its creation freedom. But like in Skyrim, some of the choices could have had a lil more impact.. depth, to give your character more definition from the other characters you might make. For example battlemage, but perhaps sub-options there too so not every battlemage is the same. Skyrim is a good game, just needed more choices and the inclusion of more freedoms on things like spell-making and such

[feral viper]

Or am I...

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-math-hangover-allen-zach-galifianakis-gif-6219070

27. God, I am bad at math...

[nimble pond]

72?

[dim reef]

I just like class systems, but I appreciate the versatility of Skyrim. I think it's a good thing that they made it much more feasible for players to become a "jack of all trades," so to speak. Some people enjoy playing that way, and it generally makes the game more accessible for a larger audience.

[nimble pond]

Honestly they could just have both. You can freely pick or pick preset class systems like how u do the appearance presets

[dim reef]

I'm not sure that'd work too well, considering a major point of the class system is those skills are what actually leveled you up and such.

If you don't implement that or a mechanic similar to it, there's pretty much no reason to implement a class system.

[nimble pond]

Oh forgot about that. I was thinking you just meant in the character creation 😆

[dim reef]

You could do something like increasing skill level based on the selected skills, but how do you balance that out for the people who don't want to select a class?

[pulsar root]

"Go to sleep and mediate on what you have learned." lol. Skyrim's method of leveling up is nice but.... sometimes if I play a different game and quests give me xp sometimes I miss getting XP from quests in Skyrim(They don't)

[nimble pond]

I feel like you could do that on your own for the most part with a free system. You don't need them to force it on you, just pick whatever skills you want to be your class skills and stick with it

[dim reef]

Ngl I do prefer how Skyrim's leveling system works to standard xp systems.

[pulsar root]

Not to say I hate how leveling up in Oblivion is but, Skyrim definitely feels better "Do stuff more and you get better at it". No info on Morrowind since I barely touched it. Sorry

[nimble pond]

Now that I think about it, you did get initial skill boosts based on the race you picked in Skyrim. They could give you the option to pick your own skills as you make a class. You could even pick all of the skills, but at the cost of less improvement for each skill. Like if you picked 3 skills each one gets a 15 point boost, whereas if you picked 10 each would get 3 points, etc.
That or they could just make the rate at which those selected skills level, increase, at varying speeds.

[feral viper]

I am generally anti Class, and anti Race. At least in so far as they dictate things about my character

Backgrounds are one thing. But 'You can only level by progressing X skills'? Naw

That's not how anything works

[nimble pond]

As for durability in armor.. I've generally lost interest in it not just from TES, but other games of the like from other devs too. It's been incredibly vanilla for too long now.
Either drop it altogether or spruce it up. Like instead of the traditional durability, you can sharpen your weapons and strengthen your armor temporarily to give it a boost over it's base stat. It will dull overtime from use, but it won't go below the base stat and you can always resharpen and reinforce your weps and armor again. How much and where you sharpen your weapons blades, determines it's strengths and weaknesses in combat. With armor, based on what you reinforce it with can determine how well it holds up against different attack types before it needs to be reinforced again. Like maybe it has strong resistance based on ore type or weapon type, spells, etc.

They basically already did some of this in Skyrim with the inclusion of the crafting table for boosting armor rating and the grindstone for weps. Just make it a temporary boost instead of permanent.

[dim reef]

I personally would like to see durability never return.

Not because I think the idea is bad by default; I just think it's poorly implemented 9/10.

[nimble pond]

I mean enchantments work kinda the same loosely. You have to keep charging them.

[dim reef]

Sure, but the loss of charge doesn't actively make the enchantment worse.

Oblivion's durability decreased like it was nothing, and it made your weapons mediocre rather quickly.

[nimble pond]

No but eventually you can't use the enchantment at all if it's empty till you recharge it

[dim reef]

Yeah, that's fine.

Managing enchantments is rather inexpensive anyway.

[nimble pond]

A lot of things can feel like a gameplay tax after a while. Best make it interesting lol

[pulsar root]

That I can agree with.(The recharging enchants minus the soul gem lore)

[feral viper]

Durability is the sort of system that is interesting in concept, but ultimately just becomes a gameplay tax rather than an interesting strategic mechanic. It's something that would really have to be rebuilt from the ground up, though I do think it has value

And Heavy, Medium, Light Armour are a much longer topic than I can get into until after work..

[nimble pond]

Oops completely deleted my armor-ore post oh well 😆

[nimble pond]

But yea, I'd be more interested with armor being based on the ore-type each with it's own unique strengths and weaknesses.
Say each ore has it's own base strengths and weaknesses and number of effects, but there is a skill perk for each ore type (kinda like smiting in skyrim) so you can further tweak each ore to your own fitting too.
And since we're all chatty about spell-making, might as well add ore-mixing to the list to make some interesting and more personal armors with their unique effects.

[feral viper]

I'd take it a step further. Armour is Armour, and particular types do have particular strengths and weaknesses, but none of that has to do with weight.

Plate armour made from Iron is going to behave exactly the same as plate made from Moonstone, even if Moonstone is lighter.

One Armour Skill and make the 'types' serve as indication of baseline protection. Plate is the most protective against physical attacks, Leather against Magical, and then Maile and Scale in between.

Then put Encumberance directly into Carry Weight, and Steath directly into Sneak. You end up with basically the same effects (heavier armour slows you down more) but also have a system which allows for far, far more than the old one could accomodate

[scenic spade]

@feral viper

You ask for too much, man.

[nimble pond]

When you say plate armor behaving exactly the same regardless of if it has iron, moonstone, daedric, or whatever. 🤔
What do you mean by behaving the same?

[feral viper]

How it moves, how it's articulated, how it's fastened and worn.

[feral viper]

All is ask for is better RPGs, and offer my insight into how to achieve that.

[nimble pond]

Idk man, I think there should be more emphasis on the ore type materials used and in what amounts. Otherwise ore type is just pointless.

[feral viper]

Oh, I think that should be something to... But that's more of a Crafting thing rather than a raw, mechanical and behavioural thing to Armour.

[nimble pond]

Yea i don't think I understand what you're saying then

[feral viper]

A coat made of rings is a coat made of rings, regardless of whether it's Iron, Steel, Mithril, or Bone. The Material is going to play into how good that coat of rings (Chain Maille) is, but it's not really going to change how it behaves.

It's the same idea of... A sword is a sword. But an Ebony Sword is better than a Bronze sword.

[nimble pond]

How did it change before? That might better help me understand

[feral viper]

Well, traditionally the solution has been to use artificial Weight Classes to designate behaviour. The whole, Light, Medium Heavy dynamic. The 'Heavier' the armour, the more it confers negative modifiers to movement, stealth, etc.

[nimble pond]

Ohh

[feral viper]

The problem is, you get things like Glass and Iron. Iron encumbers you more, despite the fact that both are plate and should behave exactly the same based on coverage, and the glass covers way more. Meaning it has a lot more restrictive points of articulation, and would, at least, in principle encumber you MORE.

But this system doesn't even really work if you translate it to, say, Leather-Light, Maille-Medium, Plate-Heavy like ESO does, because somewhat counterintuitively, Plate Armour is actually the LEAST restrictive Armour type

[nimble pond]

Yea I would just put those stats on the base ore types. But.. like I said with the ore skill perks, you can further tweak the material itself. Say daedric is generally a heavier-weighted material. But you picked a perk in daedric ore mastering your understanding of it and can make a lighter set of deadric armor as opposed to it usually being only a heavy armor. But I kinda get what you're saying. The whole weight class system is restrictive on player freedom and you can keep those features but they could better be placed in order to give more player freedom

But yes, armor should be armor and not feel like a class system.

[feral viper]

Talking about Ores and how it relates is a little tricky without going into how I think Crafting should work too, but... I think using the Ore type as basically quality scaling within the broader Armour system leaves the most room.

So, like, you have Breastplates, which are the armour type, and behave a certain way. But then they can be of varying qualities dependent on the material.

So an Ebony Breastplate is going to be better than an Iron Breastplate, of course.

[nimble pond]

Well not necessarily, it's just more about what fits what the player is going for on the playthru. Like I might want to be more skilled in iron crafting for the playthru and do more with it.

[feral viper]

In a more realistic context, I think there'd be more value in that, but in a setting where some materials are just better than others, I think you're going to run into a problem where you can't focus too much on one material, but rather have to focus on one field: Like Smithing

[nimble pond]

I'd say rarer, not better, wishfully.wistfully. well actually it sort of is that way already with some materials being harder to come-by

[feral viper]

I think it would be more interesting if there was some deeper material science to the setting, but as it stands...

I think the best we can hope for is 'blocks' of comparative quality

Like, Malichite and Ebony are the same 'Tier' of material, though have different qualities which reflect in different stats when used in the same sort of item.

But, basically .. the type of item determines it's behaviour. The material determines it's actual stats.

[nimble pond]

I just don't look at it like any ore is better than the other. I just wish they'd give more emphasis on the ore type itself. Like this type is strong and weak against this and this. And perhaps a unique factor or two that really makes each ore stand out from each other

[feral viper]

I agree, and I think there's definitely some room for that. Though it depends a lot on what materials are present as well

[nimble pond]

See that's where you confuse me adding the armor types because of the current system negatively impacting speed and stealth. I don't think a armor types (it feels more like just a name, plate, chainmail, etc.) are even needed, they just need to dump the system of making armor feel like a class system based solely on weight.

But with the crafting system, you just pick the "type" you want to craft, the ore material(s) used, and the amount(s) of each. You have head, chest, arms, legs.

Having set types feels like it not have enough choice. Like just give me a crafting list of different varieties using that material like how they had varieties of fur armor in skyrim

[feral viper]

It's less, like, Skills, and more just broad categories so a player can roughly gauge what it's good against.

So, like, if you're making Leather Armour, you know it's going to be better against Magic than Physical attacks

[nimble pond]

Yes I know, categorization. I just felt like categorizating the type (like if you wanted to make a "chainmail," using whatever ore(s)) might give us less choice as opposed to not having it, is all

But yea, it probably needs some sort of name categorization right, can't just leave it blank. Based on what style of armor you're going to use the ore to make

[feral viper]

It could also allow you to avoid problems of, like, there only being only one style of any armour per material. Allowing you to bring in some of the ESO style dynamics.

[nimble pond]

Yea, having only one armor appearance kinda blows

[feral viper]

But if your going to do that, you can't like armours directly to materials

[nimble pond]

True true

Well you could..

[feral viper]

That's something I think FO4s weapon system could offer a lot for. Both for weapons and armour, if used well

[nimble pond]

It just depends how they setup the crafting window

But yea, I agree having both the armor type and ore type into play could be interesting

And F4 I would say has a nice crafting system too

[feral viper]

Imagine applying that, to Skyrim. Not weapon midding, but just crafting. An Altmeri guard on a Dunmeri blade, with a Nordic Bear Hilt.

[nimble pond]

😆

[feral viper]

Should be doable.

But so should being able to assemble an entire Arm Piece, gauntlet, vambraces, coutier, rerebrace and pauldron... Without having to manage 5 seperate equipment pieces

You use the crafting system to slide the options down a layer, and not front load them. That way they're elective, instead of absolutely mandatory.

[nimble pond]

You're saying making it all into one custom set?

[feral viper]

Or at least a smaller number of custom pieces

[nimble pond]

So like a layering system from the ground up?

Hmm could be interesting

[feral viper]

I actually think, as far as Armour Slots themselves, FO4 is a good model to adopt

Especially since it matches up with major body parts, allowing for an easier implementation of Limb Damage if you wanted to.

[nimble pond]

Eh I like the variety

[feral viper]

The goal is to have variety, AND fewer pieces to manage

If you offload most of the variety to the crafting end, you can increase the absolute amount of variety by decreasing how much you need to deal with at any given time.

Morrowind, for instance, had 7 pieces, in 7 slots. This system could reasonably deliver 25 pieces, in 5 slots, simply by shifting the piece selection to Crafting instead of Equipment

[pulsar root]

I have not found crafting fun despite the fact its a very RPG thing an well...obvious thing that happens in these fantasy worlds. This goes for mmos to. I dunno what it is

[feral viper]

Most crafting is not particularly fun, no.

[nimble pond]

I like building so I'm prob more ok with it

[pulsar root]

A more robust House ecorating system is nice(But for ES). I can do that of course >.>

[feral viper]

Another situation where FO4 offers a lot of potential

But scaled down, of course.r

[nimble pond]

..magical..furniture? 🥺

And a dwemer guard dog

[nimble pond]

Warrior, thief, mage. Wish they had done a 4th and given soul/shadow/dark it's own group. For my truly villainous builds

[dim reef]

The Serpent is technically the fourth, though I assume you mean of the Standing Stones.

[feral viper]

They're more... Representative of conceptual paradigms, not so much heroism or villainy.

Mannimarco, for instance, is about as evil as they come. And he fits comfortably in the Mage category.

[nimble pond]

I kno I kno, it's just something I desire 🤤
Like there's evil (can be in warrior, thief, or mage like anything else) and then there's just evilllll kinda like how the serpent stands out from the others and does it's own thing

[dim reef]

Being a constellation comprised of unstars does that. 😔

[nimble pond]

Shadowstars lmao
https://media.tenor.com/gSfs7xmRUXcAAAAM/death-star-spin.gif

[dim reef]

What constellation are you?

[nimble pond]

I mean manni made his own moon?

[nimble pond]

The unconstellation? 😅

[dim reef]

:O

[dim reef]

I meant which one were you born under. 😐

[nimble pond]

I still think TESVI is going to be High Rock. Was watching the teaser trailer yet again. This time.. noticed one of the first things you see centered after the fog is a huge/high rock mountain 😆

[summer pine]

Elder scrolls 4 is where I started and that was because I can't play scrolls 5 on my older computer and I think scrolls 4 needs a redo on the graphics and be updated to have better support

[red pond]

Has Bethesda ever thought about making a linear action adventure type of game with the elder scrolls lore? For the modern age that is

[dim reef]

Not that I know of. Redguard and its cancelled sequels are probably the closest they've come, or would have come, to action adventure TES games.

[red pond]

I think I remember Todd saying that Redguard was supposed to be a love letter to the OG Prince of Persia

It would be cool to see one in the style of the Sands of time trilogy type

[dim reef]

https://web.archive.org/web/20070519060952/http://www.elderscrolls.com/tenth_anniv/tenth_anniv-redguard.htm

Yeah, it was inspired by Ultima, Tomb Raider, and Prince of Persia.

[red pond]

They have so much interesting lore they could make some games in a similar nature

[dim reef]

I wish the sequels would have happened. Too bad Redguard was a commerical flop.

[eager remnant]

Personally I'm happy they made Morrowind instead.

[scenic spade]

Say "Fus Ro Dah!" if you're one of the awesome people who beat both Oblivion and Skyrim Thieves Guild questline!

Long live the stealth lovers! Fus Ro Dah!

[nimble pond]

https://images.uesp.net/5/55/DF-quest-Nocturnal's_Quest.gif

[calm bough]

I was playing Daggerfall as a Dark Elf burglar named Bilboat and I had robbed enough stores to purchase a ship honestly which was a goal I had set for myself and when I finally got to stand on the deck of my ship I noticed a white pixle on the horizon. Naturally I swam towards it to see what it was. It was a square island of harpy feathers with a dungeon door in the center. I opened it and was transported to outerspace. But it's Daggerfall so it was just a black box with stars all over the walls and ceiling. There were some asteroid platforms and a Daerdric Lord there. Turns out that was the final dungeon in the game's story and they hid the physical entrence in the ocean with your ship.

[slow garnet]

I've beaten Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and ESO Thieves Guild quest lines...

[calm bough]

Stop right there criminal scum

[slow garnet]

(Bribe) Perhaps I could persuade you to look the other way?

[dim reef]

I enjoy the Thieves Guild because I'm quite fond of roguish characters. It's one of the better factions for them.

[calm bough]

I imagine we'll get to see more of the College of Whispers and the Synods in the next game since the Mages Guild died out. The introduction of new factions is exciting. There's a lot of potential there. Galerion said the Mages Guild turned into petty political infighting before he left Tamriel but I think that is a more fitting discription of it's spiritual successors.

[delicate ledge]

Wait, I'm a Thane!

[calm bough]

@delicate ledge Oh, forgive me Thane. I didn't recognize it was you.

[nimble pond]

Do you get to the cloud district very ofte.. oh of course not, what am I saying.

[dim reef]

I enjoy turning Nazeem into a sweet roll with the Wabbajack and eating him.

Elaborate cannibalism.

[nimble pond]

Nazeem as a sweetroll speaking to the Dragonborn's inner stomach: "Do you eat at the cloud district very ofte.. oh of course not, what am I saying."

[calm bough]

I remember HunterXHunter coming on tv once when I had never seen it before and I recognized Hisoka's voice as the Arch Mage who is also Nazeem.

[delicate ledge]

Yeah, Keith Silverstein is a very prolific voice actor, and it's so weird to hear that exact voice come out of the most random places.

Like, I was playing Arkham Knight, and there was an Easter egg where Lex Luthor leaves a voicemail on your business phone, and it's Nazeem's wretched voice.

Skyrim has that problem all over. Like how the Courier, Erik, and Sven all sound like Max Goof.

Or like how Nurelion sounds like a depressed Tigger with COPD.

[calm bough]

Oblivion has about 13 voice actors and I'm glad every npc is Wes Johnson. It's pretty cool that Todd Howard always voices Clavicus Vile. The voice actor for Sheogorath in TES3 is the same voice actor for Haskil in TES4. They even mention in the game that Haskil answers prayers while Sheogorath is busy. Haskil will aslo answer a prayer in TES4 if you complete the Shivering Isles questline and visit Sheo's shrine afterwords.

[delicate ledge]

Is that a joke about how Todd makes promises he can't keep or something? Because Clavicus is voiced by Belethor/Nick Valentine/Corvo in Skyrim.

Oh, he does voice Clavicus in Oblivion. Never knew that.

That would actually be very funny if Clavicus kept promising you stuff, like chests of gold or a kingdom to call your own, and you just end up with Umbra or something.

[dim reef]

I wonder if that's why they came up with the lore that Haskill once mantled Sheogorath. 🤔

[scenic spade]

I'd rather consume Nazeem as a vegetable soup.

[calm bough]

I've heard that the Oblivion speech wheel and Daggerfall banking system will be present in Starfield. I'd really like to see more old Bethesda mechanics return. That's just me though.

[scenic spade]

The speechcraft mini game is oddly addicting in Oblivion.

[eager remnant]

I loathed that Speechcraft mini-game with a purple passion. I thought it was one of the the most ill-conceived game mechanics BGS has ever introduced. If there is a Speech mini-game in Starfield I hope it bears no resemblance to the one in Oblivion.

[hidden herald]

I'm guessing the Speech checks in Starfield will be more similar to Fallout 76 and Fallout: New Vegas, but I'd have to double check the trailers.

[livid ingot]

I have to admit, I got mild enjoyment out of the game. I just don't like how it makes Speechcraft almost useless as a skill.

[hidden herald]

I'd have had Speechcraft tie into the Thu'um, personally, or with other similar forms of magic.

[livid ingot]

Same issue the games still have with Lockpicking, in fact

[dim reef]

I assume it'll have something to do with the new dialogue point system.

[calm bough]

Another thing I'd like to see return in TES6 is all the cool spells. Like unlock, burden, weakness to blank, and bound armour for examples. It gives the mage class more options. The drain/absorb and corrode spells were cool but I doubt the majority of people are eager for the return of gear durability and atributes which is completely understandable. I apprecaite the gear durability in Daggerfall and Morrowind because it's there but you never really have to think about it. The gear durability in Zelda Breath of the Wild is absolutely atrocious and ruined it for me.

[dapper lichen]

ok i got 2 questions about the revered dragon in skyrim 1: how can dragons use the th'um when it was created by nords and 2: can the th'um that the revered dragon uses be used by the dragon born in game?

[calm bough]

Kynareth taught it to the Nords. Dragons are Aedric.

[dim reef]

The Thu'um wasn't created by Nords. It's the natural language of dragons. It was taught to Nords/Atmorans by either Kyne or Paarthurnax depending on your source; however, that's still kind of unlikely given dragon priests existed long before the Dragon War, and they could Shout.

[dapper lichen]

oh

[dim reef]

And, yes, the Dragonborn can use the Thu'um.

[dapper lichen]

what does the revered dragon use?

[dim reef]

They use Fire Breath and Drain Vitality. Both of these can be used by the Dragonborn.

[dapper lichen]

oh ok thanks

[calm bough]

@dim reef I'm pretty sure in Daggerfall the Dark Brotherhood still worships Mephala and not Sithis. It's mentioned in the join or die letters they send you after murdering someone.

[dim reef]

Sithis wasn't really... developed yet, and the Dark Brotherhood's association with him wasn't established until TES IV.

[calm bough]

@calm bough That was a reply to an old message where you mentioned the Night Mother lore was added in Oblivion and wasn't present in Morrowind.

You are correct. I wanted to share their in game connection to Mephala. In lore they branched off from the Morag Tong (Mephala worshipers) because they began to worship Sithis. As far as my understanding goes.

I've noticed in Oblivion the Akaviri undead you fight appear as regular human ghosts and skeletons with nothing resembling "snake men". I think they just decided to reuse existing resources rather than make new ones for a single quest.

[weary smelt]

So I guess that means Sithis is a retcon? Maybe?

[calm bough]

Sithis is integral to the creation story of TES. I'm not sure if those books are present in Daggerfall. I believe they are present in Morrowind but I could be mistaken.

The book titled 'Sithis' is present in Morrowind.

Sithis created Lorkhan to destroy the universe. Lorkhan is Sargeras.

[dim reef]

The Tsaesci have human skeletons.

They're not snake people.

... not anymore. :)

[calm bough]

That is interesting...

[dim reef]

We ate it to become it.

[calm bough]

They were human like in the Reman days which means they were human like during the Ionith expodition as well. Did their snake description come from the 1st Era invasion? When Almalexia asked Wulfharth to aid them in the war?

[dim reef]

It's more likely to be fanciful tales from someone who never met them.

[calm bough]

I got the invasions mixed up. My bad.

[dim reef]

It's weird because 2920 and Mysterious Akavir were simply written before it was decided that Tsaesci were human in appearance.

Out of game, I mean.

[calm bough]

Reman was 1st invasion and Wulfharth was 2nd invasion. 1st was Tsaesci and 2nd was Kamali.

[dim reef]

Ye.

[red pond]

Idk if this is the right place to ask about TES6 but do you guys think we could see one or two shouts returning?

[dim reef]

I doubt it.

[calm bough]

Mysterious Akavir mentions the Tsaesci (serpent race) eating the Akaviri race of men but it doesn't specify when. 2920 describes them as snake men but 2920 is a historical fiction. The human Akaviri must have been eaten after the 1st invasion if their human apperence in game is lore accurate. That means the author of 2920 thought of the 1stEra Akaviri as serpent like because it had been so long people forgot humans lived there? The author Mysterious Akaviri was aware of human Akaviri. Like 7 new vols. were added in ESO so they were written in the 2ndEra...

[dim reef]

2920 is historical fiction, yeah, but Townway did a lot of research for the book. He doesn't even consider himself a writer. He considers himself a researcher or something.

[calm bough]

There might be a few enemies that use shouts but a player character who can shout is doubtful. In lore Ulfric had to dedicate 10 years of his life to be able to shout.

[red pond]

Akavir people? So far only the Tsaeci have come to Tamriel right?

[calm bough]

The Akaviri are indeed mysterious.

[dim reef]

Yeah, I just meant that 2920 and Mysterious Akavir originally come from the Morrowind era before all of that was set in stone.

[calm bough]

Kamali invaded in the 2ndEra

[red pond]

What about Ka Po Tun?

[calm bough]

The Tribunal were stressed out about it.

[dim reef]

It's not like the "snake people" description was consistent back then or anything.

[red pond]

I'm excited for the tiger dragon people

[calm bough]

I think the Ebon Heart Pact of ESo was formed because the Kamali invaded the east coast of Tamriel and they just didn't dissolve the alliance after the invasion ended.

[dim reef]

Just Kamal and Tsaesci. Ka Po' Tun and Tang Mo have only been directly referenced in Mysterious Akavir afaik.

[calm bough]

I think MK said something about Tosh Raka and Akatosh being spirit brothers like Alduin. I don't know.

Oh I see what you mean Zephyr about the lore being written inconsistantly during game development. I'm too much of a nerd trying to piece it together in the TES history timeline.

[red pond]

The Tsaeci that invaded Tamriel, were they human looking?

[calm bough]

In Oblivion you fight their ghosts and skeletons which are very human looking.

At first I imagined they just didn't bother creating new models and used their existing resources.

Disaster in Ionith, the Imperial record of the failed expedition does not make any notes of their snakeyness.

[forest surge]

I mean Eating the Akaviri Race of Men may not mean Eating them literally, more like they were assimilated into there culture.

[calm bough]

I read something interesting the other day about Mankar Camoran being a High Elf and wearing the Amulet of Kings and describing in his books that he can 'speak fire'. Only the dragonborn can wear the Amult of Kings and the Camoran dynasty were Wood Elves. I think it's possible Mankar Camoran and or Dagon changed his race and made him dragonborn.

@forest surge I love that interpretation.

[forest surge]

So the conflicting accounts are most likely on account of interbreeding

[calm bough]

@forest surge I think what I was trying to do is the reason so much of human history is a mystery to us. Too many people try to directly translate everything and you just can't do that. The meanings of words change and language is constantly evolving.

@forest surge You have enlightened The Prophet. You have shown me my ignorance and narrow mindedness. Nine blessings to you.

[feral viper]

The Akaviri, or at least the Tsaesci and probably the Kamal, have definitely been relegated to just being Asiatic Humans.

Which is a shame, because it basically strips them if any real creative interest.

[delicate ledge]

Weirdly, I thought the High Elves were supposed to be the Asian inspired characters, because so much of their concept art in Oblivion has them in Kimono-esque robes.

[forest surge]

Asiatic?

[forest surge]

Not if you show the differences

Yes they are probably all Asian inspired cultures

But I think you need to understand that you shouldn’t lump them into one group and assume the creativity stops there

Because I personally think…

“Oh they are are just Asiatic Humans.”

Is just not necessarily a good way to look at something.

Especially considering we know nothing more beyond what our general understanding of Akavir is.

Not trying to come across as rude, I just view the idea of them not having any real creative interest as kind of an odd choice to believe when we don’t know much.

[calm bough]

Akaviri culture is 100% inspired by East Asian culture. Katanas come from Akavir and the Blades faction came from Akavir. Cloud Ruler Temple and Sky Haven Temple have very Asian inspired archatecture. Before knowing that I too thought the Elven races in general were Asian inspired. 'Mysterious Akavir' says Akavir is a land of beasts where no man or mer lives. I Imagine all 4 Akaviri races resemble the Khajiit and Argonians as humaniod beast races. I believe all in game Akaviri relics are from the Tseasci culture. Unless there are Kamali relics present in ESO. I don't think I've seen any Kamali anything.

[delicate ledge]

Given that the Akaviri are often associated with dragons and serpents, I envision them as more humanoid Argonians or even draconic humanoids.

I'd love if the Akavir became a playable race and I could get a big cobra hood on my character. I'll gladly sacrifice having headgear for it.

[forest surge]

I will not deny the East Asian Culture, I just believe saying there is no real creative interest that could be done with them is not necessarily true

[calm bough]

I would like for series to maintain the mystery around the Dwemer, Akaviri, Aylieds, Maomer, and Yokudans. I would like a few more scholarly books about them but playing as any of those races or exploring their kingdoms would really take away from their mysterious nature and kill the magic I think.

[calm bough]

There is a lot of potential for creativity. I agree with you. I don't think Bethesda has written much about them.

[forest surge]

Personally if it’s a Race that’s clearly alive and is flourishing somewhere else I believe they need to be explored.

[forest surge]

Well why do you think? They aren’t in a rush to do anything with them right now.

[forest surge]

They are mysterious really only because so far it serves the purpose for them to be while we still have Tamriel which has yet to explore everything.

I’m not gonna say I’m aware of the overall intent but personally I believe Akavir is not expanded upon because the devs and those in charge personally feel we aren’t ready to venture someplace new

[delicate ledge]

Let me be a snake woman, coward.

[calm bough]

In ESO you are able to speak with Moamer and Alyieds. In Morrowind you are able to speak with a Dwemer and in Skyrim Snow Elves. In Redguard you speak to N'gasta the Sload. There is player interaction with these races though it is minimal. They're starting to explore them more in ESO it seems.

[forest surge]

ESO also explored a bit of Akaviri culture with Hakoshae but again I feel the intention is to set a foundation for Akavir for the future

Not necessarily go all out until the time is right. I mean look at all the damn lore we already have for Tamriel itself and still more that has yet to be revealed.

[feral viper]

Eh, based on the last 2 games, and the continued handling of Akavir... I'd rather they just forget it exists

[calm bough]

@delicate ledge He is the enemy of all who walk free on Tamriel today. A survivor of the ancient race!

[feral viper]

It'll just be Japan

[forest surge]

I personally am more optimistic.

[feral viper]

I see no reason to be. Skyrim and Oblivion dumped all the nuance and varied culture in favour of one dimensional memes. And even ESO has struggled to make the Akaviri anything but Japan

[forest surge]

ESO isn’t trying to develop Akavir lol, have you forgotten that we aren’t supposed to really develop there culture? They are only basic because we know so little, so really what you say, and not to be rude, doesn’t hold much water until then.

[feral viper]

Rimmen.

[dim reef]

Rimmen is Akavir with a whole lot of Imperial influence.

[forest surge]

They built a tomb there, yes, but aside from that they aren’t trying to tell us anything

Not only that but I feel you bring down the mood to much with saying how disappointed you are because they didn’t handle things how you would have.

[calm bough]

They're going to have to retitle 'Mysterious Akavir' to 'Well Documented Akavir' if they show any more. I enjoyed the museum in Castle Bruma and that's enough for me.

[forest surge]

Except that really only applies to Tamriel not having well documented findings to Akavir, only Akavir knows Akavir well lol

[calm bough]

@forest surge You right

[forest surge]

And even then we don’t know what Akavir knows about Tamriel itself, for all we know they could be in the same situation as Tamriel.

[dim reef]

I don't think "snake hoods" would fit under any of their helmets, so I doubt the Tsaesci are literally snake people anymore.

It's true that eating the Men of Akavir could be metaphorical rather than literal, but I think that's boring! I believe it's even suggested in-universe they may be shapeshifters, and Renald seems to support this in some way.

[calm bough]

I believe they are aware that all of the existing Towers of Creation are in Tamriel and none are in Akavir. That's why they keep invading. They're also aware of the importence of the dragonborn.

[forest surge]

I mean it could be all of the above

[calm bough]

In lore they are terrible armourers. "If they had one Nord smith in their army they would have won." That's just a saying.

[feral viper]

All that would suggest is that there are no Elves in Akavir.

[calm bough]

Mysterious Akavir says that.

[forest surge]

I mean no Elves in Akavir wouldn’t be a big deal to me personally

[feral viper]

But, as the Akaviri become more and more generic Japan, the other cultures with Japanese elements become less and less Japanese

[forest surge]

🙄

[dim reef]

Mysterious Akavir is wrong about a lot.

[feral viper]

Gone are the Altmer, Nibenese and Orc Japanese elements. And it's difficult to really say that there are any left in Hammerfell

[calm bough]

It's the significance of the Towers that keeps the Akaviri so interested in Tamriel. The Orc samuria armour in Morrowind is badass.

[forest surge]

I mean do you want them all to share that? Sounds like there would be no creative interest.

[dim reef]

That's theory.

[feral viper]

Yes. Because combining various influences to create interesting cultures unique to the setting is far superior to just copying real world cultures

Or as we have gotten lately, parodies of them, such as the Nords.

[forest surge]

I personally don’t agree with this statement.

[calm bough]

Khajiit in Arena were just desert Nords...

[feral viper]

Yes, and with Morrowind Bethesda did something amazing.

[spare anchor]

Let's dial it back a few notches

[feral viper]

The Dunmer aren't just some one for one copy of a real world people. They are a multifaceted culture that draws from several real world influences. Assyrian, Japanese, Eastern Orthodoxy, Mongolian.

[forest surge]

I’m sorry but while I see Morrowind as Important I just am tired of hearing it’s praises in the same way I hear of New Vegas for Fallout.

[feral viper]

Morrowind has lots of problems, and I'll criticise it's gameplay design for days. But it's worldbuilding isn't something that can be criticised so easily.

[calm bough]

I enjoy Morrowind a lot. Many people don't like that it isn't fully voice acted but the other side of that is entire paragraphs of lore in every NPC intereaction. I love it. Morrowind world building is top tier.

[forest surge]

I won’t deny that, but honestly my issue lately in the time I’ve been here is that you bring down the mood a lot. I am not saying this to be rude but I just get tired of it, in a way that makes it sound as if you know better.

[feral viper]

Oblivion and Skyirm simply fail to even come close to that worldbuilding bar. Going so far as to be overly derivative and actively cutting out a lot of the actual depth of the people's and cultures they cover.

[forest surge]

And again I won’t deny this, but as a person I would rather be optimistic than just continue to feel downtrodden at what could have been for those games.

[feral viper]

Bethesda has given me no reason to feel optimistic in this regard.

In terms of general gameplay? Sure. In terms of worldbuilding? No.

[forest surge]

So if they haven’t why are you in a Bethesda server? If they no longer have the ability why continue to follow a series that isn’t being what you want for it to be?

And I don’t say this to mean you can’t like the series

But that if they have only gone downhill from Morrowind what reason does one have to continue following the series?

[spare anchor]

Alright, that's enough

[forest surge]

I’ll stop if you want, I already said what I needed to say.

[dim reef]

I hope Nahfahlaar shows up again in TES VI. I know it wouldn't make sense at all, but I want it to happen either way.

He's the best dragon. He can't be dead. 😭

[feral viper]

I doubt Alduin made a special trip to Hammerfell.

[forest surge]

Considering his soul didn’t get the mean ol suck, he’ll be fine

[calm bough]

I have entire months of my life logged into Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, and Daggerfall. I love all the games. Arena is unplayable... it was the pioneer of the genre though. I enjoy the gameplay and world building of all the games very much and my only concern for future titles is the consistant pattern of simplifying each game further. Removing skills, schools of magic, several armour slots, and things like that. I'm very excited for TES6 and I hope it's set in Hammerfell some years after Skyrim.

[feral viper]

So unless we find another way to resurrect Dragons, I don't expect to see him again.

[forest surge]

I think they are already going back to more of that with Starfield in some ways.

[calm bough]

Adrea can be killed unlike daedra but I'm not sure Alduin was killed killed.

[dim reef]

They removed 1 school of magic, and I'm happy they did.

I hope it stays gone.

[forest surge]

The fact they have started to is a good sign.

[feral viper]

More schools of magic and more skills doesn't instantly mean more depth. For it's fantastic worldbuilding, Morrowind was actually a mechanically shallow game with a lot of redundant window dressing.

Fewer Skills that actually have differences is superior to more skills that just all do the same thing with a different look

[dim reef]

Fallout 4 seems to suggest that Bethesda is returning to more modular armor systems imo.

[calm bough]

@forest surge I think Starfield is going to be a significant indicator of how TES6 will turn out.

[dim reef]

Morrowind has way too many armor slots though.

[forest surge]

I mean probably, I just know Starfield is a passion project of Todd’s

[dim reef]

It's a BGS passion project. Most of their games are. A lot of the old guard is still around. BGS has great employee retention for a game dev.

[calm bough]

Naw lots of armour slots is cool as hell. You don't need to use them all like belts or robes but you can have so many enchantments at once.

[feral viper]

Skyrim and FO4 already set a trajectory for Bethesda's game design towards more meaningful RPG mechanics, even if they didn't always stick the landing.

[forest surge]

I rather they take risks as a Game Developer to see what players did and did not like.

[calm bough]

Fallout 4's dialog wheel was insulting.

[dim reef]

Agree to disagree. I think it's just annoying to manage.

[forest surge]

Which is a risk that means they will never do voiced again.

[calm bough]

Yes, yes, yes, not yet. That was every fallout conversation.

[dim reef]

I just want them to do dialogue more like Fallout in TES games. I'm bored of our characters having basically nothing to say because they don't want to give the character too much personality.

[forest surge]

Well we aren’t doing voiced characters ever again.

[calm bough]

New Vegas had lots of interesting dialog options that added to the role playing element and all the skills that did the same things served a little more purpose with possible interactions with objects in the world. Like disarming the bomb in Fallout 3 for example required explosives skill 25.

[forest surge]

I think Fallout 4 already cemented that fact

[dim reef]

I mean like 3/NV.

Not voiced protagonists.

[forest surge]

Personally though I think Bethesda is going back to older RPG Stuff now that They have quite the following.

[dim reef]

Or heck, even what we've been shown of Starfield's dialogue system.

[calm bough]

I perfer the older style rpgs.

There's nothing wrong with Skyrim though.

[forest surge]

Although I should state to get this out of the way, the reason I am optimistic is because If I am constantly worried or sad a series didn’t do something I wished it did, I would be in a bad mental state. And honestly that’s not healthy for me, it’s like caring what some Star Wars fans care about Pre Disney Vs Disney Star Wars, hence why I stopped focusing on that.

It’s why I am not concerned if something isn’t done well at first but can be done well later.

And honestly it’s helped me stay in good spirits.

[feral viper]

As I've gotten older, I've grown to like them less and less.

[forest surge]

It’s like Morrowind vs the rest of the series, I really rather not dwell on the fact nothing came close to Morrowind on that level, because even though Oblivion and Skyrim has done it to a lesser degree, ESO picked up the pieces for quite a lot of things and It’s why I am much happier as an individual than I would be.

I’m not saying don’t be sad, just don’t let it be the forefront

[delicate ledge]

Quite the following NOW? Skyrim is one of the most iconic games of all time. They were quoting Arrow to the Knee on NCIS back in 2012.

[forest surge]

Yeah I probably could have not underestimated it, but I think I may have an idea of why things changed ultimately, they wanted to mainstream the series and so worldbuilding wasn’t as big going forward even though it was there, just not at every corner possible. I think for Morrowind they knew if it failed they would go bankrupt, so they had to put a bigger emphasis on it’s worldbuilding while the gameplay wasn’t the biggest thing ever. I think the opposite was the case with Oblivion and Skyrim. I think we reached a point though where they have to do good at both now

We already are in 2023 so it’s like we’ve come a long way from many types of ways to develop games.

So I think it’s more important than ever they do well on both fronts

[calm bough]

Does anybody else love Battlespire? I haven't found the man you're sent to look for yet but I've found his dead dragon and the door to the spaceship hangar.

[dim reef]

Battlespire makes me want a modern DOOM-esque dungeon crawler set in TES where your weapon is spells.

[forest surge]

ESO has Battlespire as a DLC Dungeon I believe, it’s also had Clan Shardai Mentioned among other things

[dim reef]

The Battlespire isn't in ESO.

[forest surge]

Well I didn’t say I know did I? XD

[dim reef]

... that's why I said it wasn't.

[forest surge]

Sorry lol

[calm bough]

They should do that. It still exists in ESO.

They have another DLC right there.

[forest surge]

I know it was mentioned in the game at least and I believe we meet two people from there

[dim reef]

Martus Tullius and Vitellia Laenius

Vitellia is long dead though.

[feral viper]

It was built during the Reman Empire, so it should be there

[dim reef]

We help Martus recruit someone to study at the Battlespire.

[feral viper]

I fact, there may be several...

[forest surge]

ESO has many dlc’s and already it’s expanded so much that I immediately blush hard at the idea of more lore expanded

[dim reef]

xD

[calm bough]

There's potential to return to the Battlespire, the imperial space station. They probably won't do it though. I feel like they've been trying to forget Battlespire ever happened.

[forest surge]

I mean if that were true they wouldn’t pay it any attention in ESO

And they have mentioned or brought back People from that game like Moath

[forest surge]

Right now we are going to Necrom this year so I can’t wait for that.

[spare anchor]

[forest surge]

And who can forget Mr Know it all himself Hermaeus Mora takes Center Stage!

[dim reef]

All I care about from Necrom is the return of Naryu Virian. ❤️

[forest surge]

Everyone’s favorite Dark Elf Assassin, the Woman of Wonderful Assassinations Naryu! I think I’m in love! ❤️

[dim reef]

[nocturne stone]

I like her but I played too much Zelda as a kid so my mind wants to autocorrect her name to Nayru

[forest surge]

Actually I brought that up to a friend who likes Zelda that really you just switch two letters

[dim reef]

I've never played a Zelda game, so I don't have that issue. xD

[calm bough]

OoT is fantastic.

[nocturne stone]

Controversial, absolutely scalding take, they're pretty good and I like them : p

[forest surge]

Although when I saw Khamira my heart went to her, such beautiful elegance! But then my Muscular Eyes then fell on the Woman Ember! SUCH SLEEKNESS IN A KHAJIIT NOT OF THIS ONE’S HOMELAND! ❤️

[calm bough]

I don't play enough ESO. It's a fun game though. I've completed the Dark Brotherhhod but that's about it. I wasn't aware Battlespire characters were in the game. I love all the recurring characters in TES games.

[forest surge]

Cool thing is the Dark Brotherhood and The Interregnum were mentioned together in a book in Daggerfall, and said that the Dark Brotherhood at the time was in a boom.

Which is definitely the case in ESO since they are doing well contract wise among other things.

[calm bough]

@forest surge That's awesome. I was unaware of that. It's all the little details that make TES so special. Like the 60% increased criminal fines in Cheydinhal before confronting the corrupt guards.

[forest surge]

Yeah, a lot of small details becoming fleshed out like the Druids of Galen in Arena became Center Stage for High Isle and Galen for Chapter 6.

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/cringe-eeee-gif-24636179

Though, Argonian and Khajiit stuff is cool

[forest surge]

If you dislike it then it’s whatever to me

ESO has been a boon for the series in general and I’m glad it happened, even if that sounds controversial to a select group.

[feral viper]

Yes, it has. It's got a few mistepps, in my opinion, but id generally solid

[forest surge]

And considering how long it’s taking between Elder Scrolls V and VI, I think the fact a lot has happened in between has helped this series a lot.

[calm bough]

ESO came out in 2014 right? The Dragonborn dlc came out in December of 2012. TES has had regular releases of content since it came out.

[forest surge]

I mean ESO has more been picking up the yearly duties

[calm bough]

For sure

Look at the releases from 1994 to 2023. Including dlcs and spin off games TES has had a release nearly every year since it came out.

It's never been neglected.

[forest surge]

We did get Legends and Blades of course

But The Mobile nature of those games aside from the Microtransactions do turn people off.

I do wish people wouldn’t just wait for a new Mainline game and forget that there is still other spin off’s that have lore to offer, which honestly makes me worry people care to much about mainline stuff.

[calm bough]

Any game with microtransactions makes me not want to touch it.

That doesn't mean I don't appreciate ESO for what it is. WoW wasn't too bad about that but I still perfer EverQuest p99.

[dim reef]

ESO is great. I'm just waiting for Necrom to drop so I can roll an Arcanist. >:)

[forest surge]

I’m waiting for Monk

[feral viper]

I dunno, sounds like a pretty weak build idea.

Unless the go true-Monk instead of another D&D trope. Pole arms and actual fist weapons could compete, but your standard kickboxer? Nah.

[forest surge]

Dude let us dream?

They already have NPC’s doing that in ESO with the Claw Dancers

Flame Kicks and such.

[feral viper]

Which I'll say positively, at least ESO does generally put the work in to integrate concepts into the setting. Even the Druids of Galen, souring the name of Druids with their D&D memes per usual, made an effort to integrate into the setting.

Avatar-Style Mage-Monks could work.

[forest surge]

I really have no issue with Elder Scrolls Borrowing ideas from the Norm and changing them up.

I just want to kick and punch people on the face

[feral viper]

So in long as they change them up. The Druids of Galen, didn't really. The Foresworn are better Druids

[dim reef]

I think it'd be neat, although it'd probably require them to integrate a whole new combat style with unarmed, and I don't know if they'll do that.

[forest surge]

The abilities are unarmed attacks, not the weapons

[forest surge]

They felt different to me really, again I don’t expect something to be wildly different, just different to fit the style of the series, and the idea of using Y’ffre as the main Deity worked for me as well as the idea they were originally One But split off.

[feral viper]

The way combat is handled in ESO would be relatively easy to just put in new animations and go. If you were to put something like that in a mainline game, though, you'd need more thought to it.

[forest surge]

I really do not care about the idea something isn’t a complete 180 from the source

[spare anchor]

As a reminder, we don't allow discussion of Real-world religion and politics

[forest surge]

I mean to be fair Elder Scrolls takes the idea of religion and politics so it wouldn’t be easy to not bring that up in terms of comparisons at times

[spare anchor]

Also the Druids of Galen were first mentioned in Arena, so it's not "something new"

[feral viper]

I'm... Not sure how a 2000 year old extinct religious order from north eastern Europe whose name was coopted by a Fantasy Game Designer in the 70s qualifies as either

[forest surge]

I’m aware they aren’t new, but they really had nothing going for them

[spare anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/big-lebowski-the-dude-your-opinion-gif-4476328

[forest surge]

Of course it’s my opinion?

[feral viper]

My problem is, the Druids of Galen were developed to just be D&D Druids, worshipping an established nature deity in the setting.

Especially given the nedic origins of the Bretons, and the already Celtic inspirations of the Foresworn, they could have at least gone back to the historical druids as inspiration.

Instead of a D&D sourcebook.

[spare anchor]

Y'all are being far too negative in here today. Remember, be nice and have fun.

[forest surge]

I’m not really negative, I’m more optimistic and prefer not to make additions to lore feel like a waste

[feral viper]

And I prefer constructive criticisms in an effort of improvement.

I remain optimistic, because TES as a setting still has immense potential. And the less than exhilarating decisions made in some games can easily be compensated for. But just shrugging and not discussing how they could be better, doesn't really lead to any sort of room for improvement.

[spare anchor]

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Druids_of_Galen Might be worth reading up on, because they really don't seem like "D&D sourcebook" just because they're aligned with nature

[spare anchor]

https://jobs.zenimax.com/jobs

Also, both of you, read #rules

[feral viper]

If I had any actual programming ability, rather than just writing and conceptual exploration, id have applied years ago.

And yes, I admit sometimes my position can seem negative. But i do try to remain constructive. Discord unfortunately makes it difficult to really expand things in an approachable format without devolving into a massive block of text.

[forest surge]

At the end of the day I’m a passionate individual who has different feelings on the series, it’s not often I get into some type of back and forth with someone

[weary smelt]

I’m just here to enjoy shouty dragon man game.

[spare anchor]

Let's everyone take a step back, take a deep breath, and remember it's a game and everyone is going to have different opinions.

[forest surge]

I keep forgetting this is the Bethesda server at times and things are a bit more strict.

[feral viper]

It's definitely far more so than the forums were...

But to change the topic, since lore is both another channel, and a bit of a hot button...

Typing back to an earlier point and something a little more conceptually representative of what I mean by constructive criticism.

[spare anchor]

No, we're far less strict than the forums. I think it's been long enough people don't remember.

[feral viper]

As I've gotten older, and dug deeper into RPG systems and concepts, I've grown less and less nostalgic for old school RPGs, and more pro-Bethesda's systems.

Skyrim's Skill and Perk system, though not used the best, could very cleanly replace Attributes, Skills, Feats and Abilities within one relatively simple and clean dynamic, and ultimately offer far more room for character development and options without having multiple competing and interlocking systems.

[dim reef]

Interestingly, I've felt the opposite. I'm a younger gamer (21), so I didn't grow up during the peak of old school video game RPGs. As I've delved more into older games and played them, I feel a sense of appreciation for those systems and wish more games would utilize them with some modernization.

[feral viper]

Older games have a lot more perceived depth, but when you actually dig at their mechanics, and their concepts, actually end up coming out pretty shallow. Or, at least, shallow compared to what the medium allows.

[forest surge]

I’d rather just advocate for a balance of both.

[dim reef]

At the end of the day, though, I appreciate the system BGS has used in both Skyrim and Fallout 4 because it's open and allows for more interest from a larger audience. And I think that's important. If your games don't sell well, it's not a great investment. Particularly for ones as complex as the games BGS makes.

[forest surge]

Although now that they have a huge audience I think they are going back to some older RPG stuff

I think Starfield is meant to be the experiment for what they can and can’t do for Fallout and Elder Scrolls going forward

[feral viper]

Part of the issue is, a lot of their systems is derived from Tabletop games, which is a medium which comes with its own limitations and concessions for the sake of playability.

But video games are a seperate medium, and come with their own advantages and limitations, and trying to just port systems from another medium just means you're taking it's limitations wholesale as well.

[pulsar root]

I never participated in the Bethesda forums so.... I don't know what transpired or what didn't happen. But to make a statement I am not a "Things were better back in the day" kinda thing. But that isn't just for Elder Scrolls either.

[dim reef]

Except are they really? Simply making the systems they have now a little bit more advanced doesn't mean they're what they used to be. Classic cRPG mechanics would never translate well into a first-person/third-person game, and I think that's precisely why BGS has moved away from them.

[forest surge]

I did say some, I never said all, Because I don’t ultimately know for sure what they plan to do, I just have this idea they are stepping back a bit.

[feral viper]

Nor am I, generally. The world is the only place where I think Bethesda has taken major steps backwards. The games continue to push forward, and in all honesty Skyrim and FO4 have all the individual elements to make quite possibly the best RPG the medium has ever seen.

[dim reef]

From what we've been shown, Starfield doesn't mechanically remind me of old school RPGs outside of a more advanced character creation than was seen in Fo4 and Skyrim.

[feral viper]

But like anything, those systems need to be used properly to really make them shine. FO4s dialogue for instance, which I've already spoken about at length in the last week

[forest surge]

Because I do believe there is a reason that they removed a lot of these systems but I do think bringing back some of them wouldn’t be necessarily a bad thing

As long as it works

And doesn’t just feel out of place to much

[feral viper]

Some of them, I think, are best left in the bin. Attributes, for instance

Perks allow you to do everything Attributes did, but through more natural and varied individual expressions rather than all at once

[forest surge]

Because I don’t want these series to be some ultra hardcore RPG, I just think they need to strike what works better for the game there trying to make

[weary smelt]

I just want a reason to actually use magic and not have to download mods. Would be nice to stray away from the stealth archer path.

[dim reef]

Simply do not use a bow. It's that easy.

[forest surge]

Challenge Failed, Used a Bow

[weary smelt]

Instructions unclear, used a bow while sneaking.

[feral viper]

Yeah, that sorta like the ever present No Fast Travel demands

[pulsar root]

😂 I never use a bow.

[dim reef]

That's a conscious choice you're making. Skyrim offers plenty of playstyles, and most of them are hella enjoyable experiences.

[forest surge]

Fast Travel being an Option is better than it being forced

[dim reef]

It's not even forced. You choose to fast travel every time you do.

[forest surge]

Exactly my point, some people say they don’t like Fast Travel.

Surprising as it is because I rather just get from Point A to Point B and not travel in between

[weary smelt]

I think the only time fast travel in Skyrim is truly forced is when you leave through the elevator from Blackreach, and end up outside in a caged area you can’t open.

[dim reef]

What?

You can definitely open that cage.

There's a lever on the side.

[weary smelt]

Well, if there is, I’ve yet to see it.

[feral viper]

It's definitely there

[pulsar root]

Yeah there is, but you have to look around at first, I've made the same mistake

[feral viper]

Right on the inside of the archway

[forest surge]

Just use your Flashli- oh…

[weary smelt]

Please tell me this isn’t some cruel late April Fools joke and I’ve just been missing the lever the last 9 years.

[feral viper]

I have had news for you

[dim reef]

You have simply been missing the lever for the last 9 years.

[pulsar root]

A Daedric trick. Or is it....

[dim reef]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[feral viper]

There's an idea. Clairvoyance should outline interactables.

[weary smelt]

So magic isn’t totally useless after all. Thank you.

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/magic-dark-gif-23266199

[dim reef]

Magic is far from useless, though that spell in particular is pretty bad.

[eager remnant]

I like this idea. There are a few modded spells that do this and I find them to be not only fun to use but also very handy in a practical sense.

[feral viper]

Clairvoyance has lots of potential uses that could offload other, more intrusive elements.

Like, make it so when you cast it, it becomes the Quest Marker, and highlights Interactables in the environment.

That way, if you want markers, it's an easy spell cast away (probably the lowest level Illusion spell). But if you don't want them, well.. you don't have to have them.

Even as simple as splitting it into two effects, Minor and Greater. Minor helps you get out of Escape Rooms. Major gives you directions to the job interview.

[nimble pond]

Personally I'd hate it. I like the fulfillment of exploring and discovering things instead of just having them highlighted to me.

[feral viper]

Then you wouldn't use the spell.

Like Fast Travel, it's an elective, not something you HAVE to do. You can still look the old fashioned way.

[nimble pond]

That and I just see no real value of it being in this kind of game. 🤷‍♂️

I wouldn't even agree it's the same comparison with fast-travel.

[feral viper]

Neither does the Clairvoyance Spell as it stands.

[nimble pond]

I think it's fine as it is. They could add a detail or two if it's good, but not a fan of it highlighting everything interactible. Then I'd just avoid using the spell altogether, cause I actually do use clairvoyance for some playthrus when questing

[feral viper]

I suppose that's fair. Once I discovered it just does what the Map Compass does, I haven't touched the spell since.

[nimble pond]

I don't use the compass or floating icons every playthru

[pulsar root]

Well it is just a spell to be offered, you don't have to use it, kinda like the option to turn off floating markers and such.

[nimble pond]

If I can use it as it is without it highlighting everything interactable, then sure.

[feral viper]

Hence the Minor and Major idea, to split up the functions.

[nimble pond]

Or just let ppl mod it in..

[feral viper]

I don't think a game should be designed with mods solving its problems in mind.

[nimble pond]

I don't see any problems with clairvoyance as it stands tho

[feral viper]

Aside from it being entirely redundant, unless you mod out compass markers?

[nimble pond]

This argument is going nowhere, next topic..

[dim reef]

It'd be fine if it actually worked. 😃

It has a tendency to not work... a lot.

[pulsar root]

I never really used it but.... I don't think the spell should go away though, if at worst make it do something else.

[dim reef]

I don't think Clairvoyance should be removed. I just think it needs some work.

[feral viper]

Moral of most systems in a Bethesda game.

Fantastic ideas. Need some refinement.

[calm bough]

I appreciate variety and options even if they seem somewhat redundant. Like short blades (not daggers) and long blades (1 handed). Like what Morrowind had going on. Realistically there would be all sorts of weapons. In Skyrim all 1 handed swords are the same length. Morrowind had throwing knives, stars, and darts. They weren't great weapons and shared the marksman skill but their presence was cool. It was cool they were there. That sort of thing. Crossbows too. They weren't in Oblivion or Skyrim (at launch) but they're cool. They're the same as bows and M'aiq makes fun of them because they're dumb but it's cool that they're there. I think medium armour is cool. Some people don't want to level two armour skills. And they don't have to. If I remember correctly in Skyrim you can only equip 1 ring at a time despite having ten fingers. I think being able to wear two rings like in Oblivion is nicer than being limited to 1 magic ring. These are just my opinions on things I appreciate in TES games.

[dim reef]

10 rings because I have 10 fingers. 🥱

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-brady-lord-of-the-rings-tb12-champion-rings-gif-14297127

[calm bough]

@dim reef I think 2 rings would be nice instead of just 1. I got two hands.

10 is dumb but so is 1

[dim reef]

But I have 10 fingers!

[feral viper]

I'm more a fan of meaningful and well thought out differences than just superficial ones for the sake of more options.

Skyrim's Perk System, for instance, could easily allow you to fit in multiple different specific types of swords into the 1-Handed Weapon Skill just by clever use of Perks.

[calm bough]

The Skyrim perk system is nice and has potential to expand. I've seen it modded to have near double the perks. I think supperficial differences really sells the setting and adds more realism.

I just really don't want the next game to feel stripped down.

[dapper lichen]

question for skyrim: is creation club still supported and are mods still being made? if so will we see more content on the nintendo switch like the content we got last year?

[wide garnet]

Ten rings on ten fingers? You’re just asking to get robbed.

[dim reef]

That never goes well for NPCs.

Free loot for me! I see no issues.

[feral viper]

Controversial...

I don't think you should be able to pickpocket things like Rings without a perk

[dim reef]

Are they not considered equipped items?

[scenic spade]

That's very expected coming from a guy who doesn't like the light armor/heavy armor distinctness. lol

[pulsar root]

Rings should be harder to take compared to... well other things(Cause well its on their finger lol

[scenic spade]

Personally, i don't think that ultimate, undress-the-NPC perk in pickpocket shouldn't even exist. It's just cartoony.

[dim reef]

But it's funny.

[scenic spade]

Is that about me saying the undress-the-NPC perk?

[dim reef]

Yes.

[scenic spade]

lol.

[dim reef]

Plus Rahjin stole a tattoo off of Empress Kintyra.

I think stealing clothes off of someone is within the bounds of TES, especially for a master pickpocket.

[hidden herald]

It's more an existing game limitation that they don't realize it afterwards, mostly.

[calm bough]

Can't you pickpocket armour onto them after stealing their's and they'll equip it? I think being able to pickpocket NPCs equiped weapons off of them with max pickpocket is appropriate, deserved, and useful.

I'm pretty sure you can leave gear on the ground and NPCs will pick it up. Does it appear in their inventory afterwards?

[calm bough]

Common silver rings on city NPCs are not considered equiped. Just like all the steel knives. At least you're able to do steal those without the skill 100 perk.

They probably should be considered equiped though.

[nimble pond]

I also have 10 toes 😏
Don't forget earrings..
Ooh noserings too
And ofc nipple rings!

Just don't use electrical magic if you are going to wear jewelry 😉

[nimble pond]

They could add more variety for jewelry though besides just finger rings and necklaces. Like you get 2 or 3 jewelry slots to use which jewelry accessories you want.

[nimble pond]

🗡 not anymore... 😄

[dim reef]

:O

[calm bough]

Earrings, bracelets, and such

Daggerfall hald plenty of torcs. Maybe that'll come back.

[nimble pond]

I'm with you, I like more variety in weapon choice as well. A sword just don't feel the same as a meteor hammer 😔

[dim reef]

They could also make the perks... useful.

The sword/greatsword perks are objectively better than the other two.

[nimble pond]

https://media.tenor.com/Fiaku5BOBokAAAAC/kiss-the-ring-disney.gif

[dim reef]

Bleeding damage is actually worthless, and the way enemy armor works makes "ignoring armor" really medicore.

[pulsar root]

Ignore armor doesn't sound bad but I wouldn't know how a bleed would work in a BGS game. On a side tangent(I wish they'r just rename Greatswords to just two handed swords)

[calm bough]

Morrowind had plenty options. You got to choose what you wanted to use. It was nice and felt realistic. I at least would like to see more weapon types than Skyrim had. No slander I just appreciate seeing more present and having a variety to choose from. It's better for an RPG. It also means more interesting fights with humaniods. In Skyrim you can craft nearly all weapons and armours so if they increase the number of different types they'll have to add the recipies and all that for crafting.

Targe of the Blooded has bleed damage doesn't it?

[nimble pond]

Personally, I'd tie their boot laces together if I could..

[calm bough]

@nimble pond There's a new perk.

[nimble pond]

I miss the throwing weapons just cause that's usually more what I go for with assassin builds instead of bow. But I'll keep a dagger on-hand too

[calm bough]

@nimble pond That's an RPG element they stole from you.

[wide garnet]

@dim reef I-told-you-so.

[delicate ledge]

That's how I got all the kid outfits in Fallout 3. Stealth boys and Enclave power armor.

Made Little Lamplight look like it was a miniature Ravenrock.

[livid ingot]

Given the waves Elden Ring has made, I would hope TES VI actually brings us more weapon variety. Polearms, fists, throwing weapons, and maybe even some novelties like a bola, a fire lance or blow gun (I know that's asking a lot). But yeah, weapons do a lot of heavy lifting when roleplaying a unique character.
At the very least I'm glad Skyrim brought back crossbows. Them missing in a high fantasy adventure like Oblivion irked me so badly.

[delicate ledge]

I still want gunpowder weapons. Give me a giant shoulder cannon like Princess Mononoke so even my ranged builds have AOE attacks.

[nimble pond]

Bola Bola Bola!

And a spiky ball chain shooter with a semi 1-shot, 2-shot feature if you want to temporarily pin enemies to something ♥️ like a mini handheld ballista (which actually just looks a lot like a crossbow).

[nimble pond]

I'm not sure what exactly.. but I think mixing gun powder itself with magical energies to make some sort of hybrid weapon type with extra potentcy could be interesting

Like.. maybe just throwable or planted magical bombs in general? Explosive thingies 🤤

[calm bough]

Dwemer machines have explosive attacks in Skyrim and Morrowind with many steam powered machines found inside their ruined cities. Destruction spells have some explosive properties especially fire spells. There are also spiders that you can throw that explode on impact.

[nimble pond]

A dwemer steam-actuated handheld ballista would be pretty sweet..
Might be able to use it underwater too..?

[calm bough]

@nimble pond Maybe Dwemer crossbow bolts that blow up is more realistic to ask for.

[delicate ledge]

I'd settle for that. Just something to give the archer class crowd control

Make the stealth half of stealth archer less mandatory

Like, one and two handed weapons have sweeps and flurries, and spells have AOE, but outside some enchanting, you're not getting that in a crossbow.

[nimble pond]

It's a fantasy? 🤷‍♂️
Yea I kno but just making it as yet another ammo type (like the magic bolts) felt boring to me?
Really would just like to see some more ranged weaponry. Bows & Crosses, throwing & bolas, mechanical steamers, etc.

[calm bough]

Exploding spiders was pretty fantasy and creative.

[nimble pond]

Yea the exploding spiders are pretty cool unique, could stick with those for explosives

They sorta remind me of the bombchus from Zelda

But hmm, still would like to see something come of mixing gunpowder and magic energy, just not sure what yet

[feral viper]

Nah, just give us an Handgonne.

Make it a 5 second reload, so it's just an Alpha Strike weapon for when you really want to hit hard or take someone out of the fight.

[livid ingot]

Just make it possible for an alchemist to make exploding potions. Give them an offensive option outside of poisons and stat buffs.

[nimble pond]

Mac Blast kachooow

[feral viper]

For when one enemy absolutely HAS to die in the opening 3 seconds of a fight.

And when they don't, you know you wandered into the wrong part of the map.

[scenic spade]

Are you aware we have exploding fire bolts with our Dawnguard crossbows?

[nimble pond]

Yes, but throwing exploding potions does sound neat. Mad-alchemist 😆
Always kinda wanted to make a smokescreen and getaway like in the cartoons. More fun than the spamming sneak perk you get, I think shadow warrior?

[nimble pond]

Gas/smoke attacks too

[livid ingot]

Good idea too!

[wide garnet]

Dwemer grenades that blow the ears out.

I’m always imagining, during Diplomatic Immunity, about dropping a Dwemer grenade and killing the Thalmor before they can recover from the blast.

[livid ingot]

Yeah, so, one of the things I really like is the ability of multiple classes or stat lines having the ability to accomplish similar tasks without compromising their build. A good example is getting past locks. In the games you have:
Lockpicking skill, unlock Alteration spells, or occasionally using a Pickpocket skill or murder to obtain a key.
Here are a few other ways that I could see that accomplished:
Smashing the lock (Strength / Blunt / Two-Hand)
Disintigrating the lock (Destruction)
Dismantle the lock (Armorer/Smithing)

[nimble pond]

Talk about a blast from the past

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tuss-jokes-gotcha-burn-ouch-gif-5645546

[nimble pond]

Ty ty
https://media.tenor.com/d1pbT93gU8sAAAAd/drumming-tapping.gif

[feral viper]

The issue is balancing it in such a way that one option doesn't entirely invalidate the others

Balance doesn't have to be perfect, but it DOES have to be approached in such a way that everything remains valid.

Otherwise we end up with issues like Skyrim's Perks, which while objectively offering far more outcomes than Oblivion or Morrowind did... Contained so many irrelevant or borderline useless Perks that only a handful of builds were really ever useful.

[feral viper]

Lockpicking, being the basic choice.

Alteration, being a magical choice which requires tapping into a more finite resource.

And Bashing, which is terrible on most weapons and about as sneaky as a rhino in a glass shop.

I could see ..

[dim reef]

And then you have that ONE really useful perk that's useless because it's bugged in the base game and they never patched it. 😭

[feral viper]

As a general rule, though, I do think TES's style of game could benefit from thinking through three approaches to any broadly defined 'Challenge'.

[brazen arch]

What channel is for ESO?

[sleek mountain]

#official-sites message here

[brazen arch]

You can’t chat or talk or communicate in that server

[hidden herald]

There is not an official ESO discord for discussions, but they do have official forums if you want to discuss and give feedback to ZOS.

[brazen arch]

I’m looking for ESO Discord where I can ask ?’s find guilds or get help quickly or just general questions answered quickly

[spare anchor]

There is no official ESO Discord. ESO uses forums, which can be found here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/

[hidden herald]

Their official announcement discord also has a channel that can point one towards various community run discords, but you'd be better off going to the official forums if you want to provide feedback/suggestions to ZOS.

[deep coral]

Guys any of you know how to restore mod load order in AE

[forest surge]

UESP Has a Discord and Online is one of the channels.

[crisp flame]

Can someone help me out with a ESO question? I have a question about Jyggalag and i'm sure some npc somewhere in the game mentioned him. Can anyone recall who and what zone it was? 😮

[dim reef]

I don't believe any NPC mentions him by name, but there is a contraband item of a statue of him stating it was found in the Clockwork City.

[crisp flame]

Ah ok, cause i was sure there was a Khajiit somewhere who mentioned him. :S Ah well, 🙂 And yeah i've gotten that a few times 😄

I'm just a bit obsessed with Jyggalag really. 😛

[eager remnant]

Hi, Maotti! This is a chat for the single-player games developed by Bethesda Game Studios. If you have any further question about ZeniMax Online's Elder Scrolls Online feel free to ask them in their forums. You can find their forums here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/

[crisp flame]

Well, i'm also on the Elder Scrolls Online discord but there you can't write anything, and i figured this wasn't really worth making a whole thread about. And the section here is called "The Elder Scrolls" and general, so i thought it was appropriate to ask. but my apologies then.

[dim reef]

If you don't wanna use the forums, a Discord for the ESO subreddit does exist. You can chat in that one iirc.

[crisp flame]

Thanks!

[solid crown]

is TESO cross platform?

[hidden herald]

TESO is not cross platform. There is also a free to play event until April 17 2023 if you want to try it now. If you need support, though, I'd recommend going through the platform you're getting it from, or from ZOS themselves.

[dim reef]

where can i find information about ESO ?

how con one buy individually the expansions?

High Isle (New for 2022)
Blackwood
Greymoor
Elsweyr
Summerset
Morrowind

[nova falcon]

This page here: https://beth.games/3ZOGFnw Will give you info on the chapters, what comes with them, and how to buy.

[weary smelt]

Is ESO even canon? That’s something I’ve been wanting to know for a while.

[dim reef]

Yeah.

[weary smelt]

Oh. Well, alright then.

[placid crypt]

is there a suggestion channel for ESO ?i cant find it.

[eager remnant]

This is the Discord for Bethesda Game Studios. Elder Scrolls Online was made by Zenimax Online Studios. Feel free to discus ESO in their forums. You can find their forums here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/

[half pendant]

I'm installing ESO to check out this free week anything I should know about how to have a good time?

[hidden herald]

There are a lot of beginners guides out there.
Also, next week there is an ESO preview for their next expansion, Necrom, on April 12 and April 13.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtH6LH-XwAEBaEH.jpg
Generally, for actual recommendations for ESO I'd recommend going to their official forums, or to a community run discord.

[delicate ledge]

Take a picture, Herma, it'll last longer.

Get a dwarven ballista and poke him right in his stupid eye.

[tribal kiln]

I need help it won’t allow me to link my ps eso account to my Xbox after unlinking the ps account from it

[eager remnant]

Hi, xX2GoodXx! This Discord is for the single-player Elder Scrolls games developed by Bethesda Game Studios. If you have issues with Elder Scrolls Online you may contact Zenimax Online support on their website. You can find it here: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/home

[rich ember]

I was thinking, a common issue with the ES games is that you aren’t incentivized to use other weapons other than the most powerful one at your disposal. In other words, you can simply just focus on using a single weapon. Fallout 4 basically requires you to use different guns like a sniper rifle from afar, a shot gun from up close & say a piston on weaker enemies, this of course changes perk by perk as you level up, that’s besides the point. The next Elderscrolls game should have different situations where you would use say a greatsword like in a more open area like a field against multiple enemies, an axe would be useful against shields (Viking axes were designed in such a way to be able to pull away shields), shields should be useful (instead of reducing damage, it should instead cause stamina damage on every hit, each level will reduce the amount of stamina damage you take from blocking hits, I will talk more about this later), & add spears (it’s basically just a really long handle with a dagger blade on it (the Vikings actually used spears very heavily) which can be useful against great swords, bows can be useful against enemies with spears, longswords are useful in more narrow engagements & daggers aren’t as suspicious to carry around & easily concealed, a short sword can be used for a more cramped engagement like in a small bedroom. You get the idea. Also, different armor types should be vulnerable to different weapons: heavy vulnerable to maces & hammers, light is vulnerable to swords & medium is more vulnerable to axes.

I want combat to be more fleshed out than just swing sword or stealth archer, that’s why I like magic in Skyrim, it’s complex while also being practical. Restoration is used in everyone’s play throughs, a bit of conjuration, illusion can be used for stealth & alteration can be used to light a path, fire can be used on the undead & so on.

[livid ingot]

I agree, TES Combat is really one note.

[eager remnant]

Skyrim has already made improvements over previous games in this respect. Two-handed sideways power attacks do area-of-effect damage (making them effective against groups), backwards power attacks can paralyze targets (encouraging players to quickly combo these attacks with another damage source), maces and warhammers ignore a percentage of armor (making them more effective against heavily-armored enemies), war axes and battle axes do bleeding damage and daggers are particularly lethal weapons in sneak mode. Most notably, for the first time ever in the Elder Scrolls series, elemental spells come with secondary effects that makes different elements more appropriate in certain combat situations.

But I agree that there is always room for improvement. Hopefully in TES VI Bethesda will continue and extend Skyrim's approach of making weapons and spells feel different from one another.

[mellow lava]

In ESO, that beginner library area, are you able to go back there from late game? I thought about skipping reading all those books.

[dim reef]

The library in Direnni Tower? No, you can't access it after the prologue.

[mellow lava]

I've two options spending time to read all those books now at the first library or to start a dragon knight character to be able to do it. I'll read them. I thought about maybe having a stamina melee and ranged weapon templar. Currently, I've a Magica points into templar.

[hidden herald]

Bookshelves in ESO generally have a randomized list of what you can read, but almost always can be found elsewhere. The ones in Direnni Tower can be found later on elsewhere in-game, just not able to return to the tutorial island yet.

[winged raven]

Maybe look at it not based on weapons, but based on skills and class. I started out as a fighter worked my way up through skills, crafting and such to wielding two enchanted ebony swords. At the same time, I developed my skills with a bow, which were perfect for sneak attacks. I also became a Mage, which allowed me to utilize spells. I actually used 3 different sets of attack skills that benefited different situations. I could open combat with a bow to get in that sneak attack, switch over to spells for additional ranged attacks and conjuration and when thing got too up close, I'd switch to my dual enchanted ebony swords. I admit, I did not use the shouts that much, though. They had their place, particularly Dragonrend. Become Ethereal I used when I need jump down from a tall mountain without dying. And Clear Skies, just because I liked the night sky.

Maybe the game could do more to push players in that direction where more diverse skills are needed. I chose to do different things purely out of interest.

But I wouldn't want to force it too much. Allow the player to explore different avenues and see for themselves. Otherwise, the game might become too linear.