#starfield-lore

1 messages · Page 13 of 1

obsidian glade
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If the earths atmosphere was stripped away it would still have resources, why can’t we build outposts on earth ? It can’t any worse than some other harsh planets .

keen acorn
slate valley
keen acorn
slate valley
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What type of POI's? Earth is NOT supposed to have random POI's apart from caves and some natural formations. Definitely NO human POI's. What type of POI are you talking about? I ask because you mentioned mining POI's.

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I know there are some mods that added them in - but those mods are NOT lore friendly.

silk lotus
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Also if that earth is anything like ours most of the metals and materials will have already been extracted and used.

mossy cobalt
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Aside from the snowglobe locations there are crater POIs on earth, but yeah, for me there aren't any random mining outposts or anything. With mods your experience may differ I suppose.

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From a lore perspective, I suspect the UC intentionally hasn't taken any steps to redevelop Earth mainly because it's a massive graveyard. Nobody alive (or at least no non-Starborn alive) would remember Earth society personally, but plenty of people would still remember their grandparents and so on talking about loved ones they lost in the cataclysm.

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There are essentially infinite planets out there to extract resources from, and plenty of others in UC space alone. I think they just wouldn't want to cross that line, at least for now.

silk lotus
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Maybe it's out of respect? Like building on top of a massive battlefield where many died. Earth is basically a huge graveyard in a way.

mossy cobalt
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Right, exactly. That's the point of view I've developed on it as well.

silk lotus
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I mean earths end is basically a mass tragedy.

mossy cobalt
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Oh, certainly. Other than causing 100% of the remaining humans to venture out into the great frontier, there's really no upside to it, and even that upside is kinda marginal.

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We were working on FTL and colonization tech (e.g. New Homestead) anyway so I doubt we would have just made zero colonies if Earth was intact

daring lake
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Earth has already been "strip mined",via industrial extraction for hundreds of years, and relative to the hundreds of other planetary bodies
available is barren. Its a dead world in more ways than one.

jaunty ginkgo
plucky plover
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Were the Kore Kinetics weapons developed prior to or after the Colony war? Was wondering if they are a new development or if they were used during the colony war?

mossy cobalt
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There's at least one unique magshot in the Colony War mech graveyard on Niira, lootable from one of the mechs

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And there's a magstorm in the Lock, which was sealed there for something like a century before we get there

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Now, I realize that's not 100% reliable because they seem to sometimes use "equivalent" replacements for things, e.g. we also find a Hopetech ship in the Lock which seems inconsistent with Ron Hope founding the company himself

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But it does seem with the way they've arranged Kore Kinetics weapons in the world that it probably did exist during the Colony War and see use by at least the Freestar Collective, if not both.

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Does anybody have any thoughts on the Hopetech ship in the Lock? It's bugged me for a while. I usually write it off in my mind as "it's standing in for a ship that would visually look kinda like this one does" but it still just feels so odd to me every time I go there.

plucky plover
spiral stirrup
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It's a good stretch lol

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Or he bought the rights to old ship designs

mossy cobalt
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Business legend

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Even took the logo stamped on the cockpit as his own and changed his name to Hope to make it work

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"Ron Hope" does sound like a fake name so honestly it could be a decent headcanon

mossy cobalt
silk lotus
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Maybe they were once nova galactic? They were bought out and sold rights to other companies.

obsidian aurora
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the cowboys develops and use mechs, while futuristic UC used animals VaultBoyConfused

scenic loom
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its cheaper SLYKEK

teal tinsel
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ignore the "Al" in the thumbnail, it's supposed to have a complete title

silk lotus
proven tendon
jade roost
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Yep

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Thx, didn't noticed XD

keen acorn
# obsidian aurora the cowboys develops and use mechs, while futuristic UC used animals <:VaultBoyC...

I would point - on the subject of use of Xenoweapon animals - to the fact we can create wombs not inside an animal. So by 2330 The process will be well understood, Cloning of people was done by UC. There is a lot of info but I will post only this and the new IVG science not the established IVF: Aug 22, 2024

https://wp.lancs.ac.uk/futureofhumanreproduction/six-things-ivg/
Seo 16, 2024
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/09/240916115505.htm

Zoe Bolton
Six Things You Should Know About IVG
ScienceDaily
New insights into DNA organization during embryonic development

Researchers have gained new insights into the mechanism behind the spatial organization of DNA within the cells of early embryos. When an embryo is first formed after fertilization, each cell has the potential to become any cell type of the body. The researchers have studied the spatial organization of DNA that is so particular to these early de...

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The limitation of 14 days and then destroy is only those who follow accepted law. Rogue scientists can go all the way to term to see what happens , other experimentation, etc. Which already happened and the scientist - well not sure exactly what was done to him. The children were already born. LOL

keen spear
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the UC also had mechs, the issue was more the UC mech pilots weren't as good as the Freestar pilots. It's basically the one year war in gundam where Zeon were way better pilots and designers of mobile suits as opposed to the federation where they sucked with mobile suits until the deployment of the Gundam prototype.

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And yea, the UC had cloning locked down, xenoweapons were effective against the freestar's mechs given they were more agile and fast than the Freestar mechs which were more big, clunky mobile weapon platforms in the same style of say Battletech/Mechwarrior vs Mobile Suits which were basically the new version of fighter jets with how fast and mobile they are.

peak halo
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Yeah, but Gundam don't work

rigid kiln
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Hi runa

spiral stirrup
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Why are vortex horrors made out of people? Their knees are human faces

scenic loom
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because they are .... Out of this world SLYKEK

rigid kiln
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Bc that way they look tasty

scenic loom
spring hemlock
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Does anyone know the full name of Noel?

naive ember
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I am pretty sure even in the CK there is no indication of it, also til Barrett is his surname (no I did not click the 3 times I did his personal quest)

analog junco
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Was it only Jinan Va'ruun who saw the Great Serpent during the Grav-jump?

rigid kiln
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Yes

crystal zealot
rigid kiln
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Ofc he did, the great serpent is the only truth

scenic loom
wind sail
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The Great Serpent is divine, and all must serve and repent, for this is the way

rocky basin
rigid kiln
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Sloff

daring lake
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Well, moving away from poking fun at the beliefs of others ...... 🙂
Jinan Va'ruun and Victor Aiza had similar experiences. Both were given
information that led to the creation/discovery/invention of components
or devices that seem to be integral to the Unity.
I would guess that it is only a matter of time (waiting for more DLC) before
we are drip fed further parts of the story concerning how the Unity was built.
And ... the nature of the folk who built it.

karmic gale
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Or left with little to no answers and more questions left unanswered.

naive ember
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I am actually fine with the devs not doing the elder scrolls thing of explaining away every little mythical element to the point the audience is unable to suspend disbelief at the concept of a religion

karmic gale
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It's space... and not in an elder scrolls universe.... and no fairy tale creatures.

naive ember
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so?

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faith is like an actual thing, and Sahima actually has companion dialogue that is pretty good on that front; the fact that it is space does not preclude the existence of a religion

karmic gale
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More like superstitious nonsense IMHO.

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I'm not in it for religion. I'm in it to discovering mysteries, solving them, and explore the unknown in space and discover possible alien intelligent life.

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I don't like to be talked down by people in the game that thinks they know better than me and that I can't understand them and can't comprehend their so called understanding of the Unity.

analog junco
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Shattered Space definitley needed more [Lie] brackets after some of the dialogue options lol

naive ember
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"Are you real?" [Lie] Yes remains the best use of truth/lie brackets

analog junco
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In ||Conflict of Conviction|| I played it up as I mostly lying and being an all out believer, then I ||let the guy's son go.||

high copper
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I guess the issue would be they’d have to have a separate option for each believer dialogue as a lie option
Which wouldn’t really change anything

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Not like if you get asked if you killed someone and you did
No I didn’t [lie]

analog junco
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I mean, you do have the option of not doing things even if you say you will, which is lying but it doesn't require the brackets

spiral stirrup
tawny anvil
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Anyone else having issues with the final part of the new expansion

velvet latch
solid inlet
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whats the lore behind how sarah has an accent if earth is gone and planets only have like 1 city or less

scenic loom
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id assume the humans that left earth just continued to speak the way they were taught, and it just stuck around after all these years, i guess

id like to believe they still kept up with "traditions" of old earth cultures or something like that

sand spruce
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Accents shouldn't exist as they do in the game. There should be an Atlantian accent, an Akila accent, etc. Things like what are in the game would have vaporized with time as people interacted and comingled in new locations.

naive ember
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planets do not have "1 city" in lore (well except Akila and maybe Neon but we have no oreal way to gauge how big they are) and npcs even talk about Jemison having other cities

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like "to scale, real" New Atlantis is obviously meant to be a massive city, the problem is that it has to run on consoles, something that has repeatedly been stated by Todd himself because apparently the concept of games not being at 1:1 scales is baffling to some people

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also accents tend to disappear at different rates and it is partially dependent on whether there are communities around the various languages spoken, it is not at all rare for there to be diglossia between a lingua franca and various community languages that can last even through assimilation pressures

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concept art Neon is obviously depicted as a huge cyberpunk arcology, concept art Akila could basically be as big as Rio with the stretch as its favelas

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even Night City only had like a 1 or 2000 NPCs to depict a city with a "real" in-universe population significantly over 1000 times larger

scenic loom
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Altho i would have preferred that on each of the city's map, I would have liked the city to have multiple towns and settlements around it and not the proc gen stuff.

Or, we could have had several cities on one planet for each of the factions which would help give more "life" to giving the players an idea of how big these factions might be.

But, at the end of the day, if having more than one city on one planet might be taxing for consoles to handle.... then they are removed

high copper
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towns would be better

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we already have civilian settlements

naive ember
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true on that point, the areas for NA and Akila would be better off hand crafted

high copper
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I keep saying UC and FC should have military controlled outposts in their systems

scenic loom
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I would have also liked to see each of the city's map basically have none of the proc gen stuff and its just one big map filled with handcrafted content like skyrim, but im gonna guess thats already too much for just one city, and imagine doing that for all of the cities ingame... consoles would burn out lol

high copper
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would be cool if Akila and NA areas did get the Dazra location treatment of being handcrafted

naive ember
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Military POIs are mostly UC iirc

high copper
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I just want more friendly areas on planets, that's why I want Military controlled outposts, not just enemy controlled

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hell you could even get quests from the CF and Ryujin that has you infiltrate those friendly military bases

scenic loom
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Dazra is basically what i was hoping atleast for each of the cities before launch
now, all im thinking is seeing every story expansion basically a "standalone game"
think like... SF is the base platform and every expansion is just Fallout 3/NV added into starfield

high copper
scenic loom
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yea... sigh

high copper
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I do want to see non Akila automated farms set up outside of Chyenne

scenic loom
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im hoping we get to see Bethesda expand the cites or do more with them
but i guess thats what the 100gb of modding space is for Xbox lol

naive ember
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like even if they made "bigger outposts" as outlying towns or even Gagarin scaled minor cities the people who do not understand the concept of scaling would still find something to latch on for this nonsense

scenic loom
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yep

high copper
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creating proc gen poi's I think would be less taxing than adding 50 new ones that you'll probably not find cause bad rng

solid inlet
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if they cant make the planets right they should’ve stayed in one or two solar systems

naive ember
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the sort of funny thing is they seem to have tightened a lot, there are leftover things implying one of the named planets outside the factions was supposed to be where Constellation was based

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a closer solar neighborhood game with shorter jump distance could have been neat though for sure, or keep as many worlds but reduce the number of important ones I guess

scenic loom
# solid inlet if they cant make the planets right they should’ve stayed in one or two solar sy...

i dont know if 2 systems will be enough with the kind of narrative they wanted to go for
but also i think, the way they handled the design of the planets was to not only to go too heavy on a "realistic" experience with the planets but to also make sure the Xbox is able to keep up with the way they designed the gameplay

if they decided to do something similar to NMS, then it might end up being taxing for the console to handle

now, could they have started off with smaller number of systems, sure, it prob would have been better but for now, all i can say is lets see what they got planned for all the systems we got ingame since they are still adding more into the game

teal grove
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Should have done 10 to 15 systems with traffic making it look like space travel was a daily occurrence. See Egosoft’s X series.

naive ember
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tbh traffic at least is fine in the core systems, every major world and starbase has a constant stream of ships coming and leaving

high copper
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the world then would have to be completly different then, a very populated system for it to look like a daily occurrence
grav drives are almost immediate so you'd just see ships popping in and out above populated planets

jaunty ginkgo
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Aren't NMS' planets and systems not to scale?

naive ember
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yean NMS is also not to scale (fun thing: even Daggerfall was not to scale even though it is significantly closer to scale than every other Beth game)

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There are not a lot of games that are to scale on that front

teal grove
naive ember
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Yeah, sure that is fair but Beth has hardly ever done games in recent years that did not have to massively scale down for performance

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and even with the current systems (I think it adds up to 120 - 100 if you count binaries and ternaries as one) it is noticeable that the core systems have traffic; that said I would absolutely love statstation pit stops with a fuel system implemented like truck stops

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(and like while the game economy is not really necessarily the best indication of the lore economy, ships definitely seem priced in the "this is a space pickup" range compared to a 55 cred baguette)

high copper
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Idk if I'd consider ships like cars, maybe back in the day, It's not like everyone has a ship and is flying all around

naive ember
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this is really a matter of scale, ships are definitely implied to be common (and Donna and Tony are saving up for one on what seems to be not particularly amazing income - I doubt being a NAT janitor makes her loaded)

sand spruce
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I see it this way: The resources to build ships are common place and easily acquired - food, however, is a premium due to it requiring immense amounts of labor, transport, and infrastructure since so much of the Settled Systems isn't inherently conducive to supporting human dietary needs. Granted, the game doesn't overtly state this and the only real hint of this is the food prices in relation to a gravdrive.

naive ember
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still, food prices would have to imply the credit is worth way less than a dollar otherwise there would be widespread famine, not just poverty - it can easily just imply you can work on a grav drive with just the equivalent of picking up ship mechanics as a trade

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like Ship Design is a tech, not science skill which I feel implies a less formal education aspect

sand spruce
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Yeah, but like... a hamburger isn't 1/10th the cost a prop engine. It isn't even 1/100th.

jaunty ginkgo
peak halo
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Propaganda

jaunty ginkgo
naive ember
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pristine is probably just to contrast since Cydonia is basically a big industrial complex while New Atlantis is a bunch of eco friendly arcologies

round trout
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im honestly kinda suprised we havent run across a small settlement of "hillbillys" that made america again, youd think that some of the people of earth would still be loyal to old earth countries even after theyve been disbanded

naive ember
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Europa will have one guy named Ulysses who cannot ever shut up about how America is not dead, just tired and having a nap

jaunty ginkgo
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Please no

grave ferry
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I wish earth in Starfield was a Mad Max world with buggy rider gangs and pirates having an all-out war in various parts

naive ember
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IIRC Todd Howard implied/joked that they considered having a postapocalyptic earth instead of fully dead

grave ferry
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That would’ve been epic style especially with vehicle combat

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I wouldn’t mind an “Earth DLC” where they add more Earth landmarks and POIs. A pirate base built into the dried out canyon that is now the Mariana Trench, for example.

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I think there’s plenty of potential variety despite the lore of Earth literally being a desolate wasteland. There’s some potential with underground locations.
There aren’t any urban ruins on the surface but maybe we could visit parts of cities that were buried.

keen acorn
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Why not a DLC that takes you to a postapocalyptic Earth? Bethesda we are waiting.....

junior iris
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Anyone have a good video that summarizes starfield lore(pre/current time and all of the factions)? max 15-20min

jaunty ginkgo
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Also the museum in New Atlantis (take the elevator at MAST) covers some of it from United Colonies' view (and biases, naturally)

scenic loom
junior iris
jaunty ginkgo
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I'm note sure if starfieldwiki.net has a compendium somewhere but other than that, yea, as it is you kind of have to piece it together from NPCs and the world as sources then account for opinions/biases

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There's also an officially sponsored video entry about House Va'ruun by the Templin Institute youtube channel, but I haven't watched it and don't know how deep they go

rich zenith
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Does anyone know who Valrak is?

rich zenith
rich zenith
rigid kiln
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I do not

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I know he has an "unique" helmet

rich zenith
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cool cool

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yh i picked up the unique helmet, seemed he died in the serpens crusade

smoky star
silk lotus
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I wonder if the armistice ban on xeno weapons would apply to non military or non government factions or civilians. Like would the xeno weapons ban apply to civilians keeping and training alien critters as pets?

daring lake
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Xeno weapons are illegal within the jurisdictions of both UC + FC.
So .... having an engineered and controllable animal would be against the law.
Simply training a Twistfin to "go fetch" or "sit-up-and beg" however, would be legal I guess.

runic obsidian
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Yeah, I'd assume having a Twistfin or whatever would just be domesticated, where as an alien creature trained for combat illegal

keen acorn
# daring lake Xeno weapons are illegal within the jurisdictions of both UC + FC. So .... havin...

(and @Icey-Cool-dude) Keep in mind UC has Xeno weapons and gear for use in Londinian. Someone brought some per instructions from the UC Cabinet. So I assume special cases get a pass. Also - The science facility Nishina has Xeno weapons. I do not see FC or UC beating down their doors. But Using Alien Creatures as Xeno Weapons is outlawed. I think the term is, "It leaves a bad taste in ones mouth to even speak of it."

daring lake
crystal zealot
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I do not recall any xeno weapon lore at Nishina, do you mean the specific creatures there?

midnight lotus
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Where do i get into the lore

keen acorn
daring lake
midnight lotus
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Thank u

jaunty ginkgo
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Shattered Space DLC page also has its own timeline

silk lotus
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So quarra mentions Sam has a ship if his own. I wonder if he kept his star eagle after leaving the rangers?

scenic loom
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hmmm
had a random thought

apart from the factions
are people born in the cities of the planets "categorized" as the cities they are in or the planet?

like with Cydonia, are the people called cydonians or Martians?
with New Atlantis, are they called New Atlanteans or Jemison...-ians(?)
and so on

static sky
scenic loom
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so you are born an outlaw instantly? sasihmmm

faint cave
daring lake
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The Centaurus Proclamation is still in effect yes/no?
So folk really do have the freedom to do whatever they want.
And, call themselves whatever they want 🙂

rigid kiln
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Theocracy time

mossy cobalt
# scenic loom hmmm had a random thought apart from the factions are people born in the cities...

Did a quick search through exported dialogue for "Martian" and "Cydonian" and I found both. Moara calls his parents "Cydonians", several people call the Red Devils "Martian" and at one point someone calls the Cydonians "Martians" as well. We hear Deimos ship designers called "Martian engineers", we hear abour "Cydonian politics" and "the Cydonian people", we hear about the "Martian Trade Authority" (i.e. the TA in Cydonia). I don't remember anyone having a word for people from Neon, but maybe it just depends on how intuitive the word would be in either case. New Atlantean comes up at least once for example.

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CK can export books too, so I could check in there as well, but I think the dialogue seems to back up the general point pretty well

scenic loom
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yeah, its mostly just Mars that mentions Cydonians and Martians
just wondering if the same kind of words are used in the other planets and the cities they are in

mossy cobalt
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Rosie at one point says "Akilan soil" when going back to Akila City, so I guess that might potentially count considering it's a reference to both the city and the planet. A bit like how "New Yorker" can mean someone from New York City itself or New York State in general.

scenic loom
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true that

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.....
are people in Neon called... Neon-ians? or something else? StonerThink

mossy cobalt
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Not Neonians anywhere in dialogue, from what I can tell

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Also not Neoners, Neonites or Neonans, either.

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(Neither as a noun or adjective)

scenic loom
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they are all Neo, then SLYKEK

mossy cobalt
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I suspect if anyone does use an adjective or noun related to them in the future (other than "Freestar") Neonian probably is the one that it'll be.

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I did check for "Voliian" or "Volii Alphan" and even just "Alphan" but none of those seem to be used either so far. "From Neon" is pretty short I guess so people seem to just use that.

scenic loom
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"From Neon"
yeah. that sounds about right

daring lake
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Freestar Gangster Scum 😉

crystal zealot
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They do have the term Neon Street Rat and Corpo. Language regarding Neon seems to lean more toward its identity as a city rather than a planet.

white willow
jaunty ginkgo
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I'm currently doing the quest where you need the access codes for the Armistice Archives, but this time taking the route of digging up dirt against Radcliff. I didn't expect Ambassador Radcliff to be on a first-name basis with her assistant Cameron

rigid kiln
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Eat them

crystal zealot
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laugh track

daring lake
ashen seal
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Does Taco Bell exist in the future? And by akatosh if someone says chunks

crystal zealot
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Seems unlikely

silk lotus
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Tacos may not even exist anymore, not even tortillas perhaps?

fallow whale
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Humanity has realized the superiority of Indian tortillas (Naan) over the Mexican/South American varieties?

crystal zealot
near slate
silk lotus
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I think naan bread does exist as an item in starfield. So maybe they have a point.

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Also I've heard about some using naan bread as a pizza crust. Never tried it though.

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Also as far as doing a constellation character. I'm not sure if I wanna do any other factions. I mean at least sysdef probably. Not ryujin because I don't wanna be competing with Stroud eklund.

silk lotus
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I love tortillas. I make breakfast burritos often enough. More often than regular tacos tbh.

fallow whale
silk lotus
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My sympathy. I will eat a breakfast burrito for you tomorrow. I'm doing burgers tonight.

fallow whale
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Thank you?

near slate
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I hope it is clear I have no strong opinion on flatbread of any form irl. However. Edible plates. That is all.

silk lotus
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Someone once told me a tortilla was a food vehicle like a straw or spoon. It's all for getting the contents Into your mouth.

near slate
silk lotus
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Tato is a papa confirmed. Would it be appropriate to call them a tatter tot? @near slate

near slate
rapid totem
grave ferry
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If they can lab grow meat why can’t they lab grow dogs? Kitties?

mossy cobalt
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"Slow-braised beef and vegetables, served sandwich-style in a corn tortilla."

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I'm not sure why they call it sandwich-style when each wrap clearly gets its own tortilla, folded around the food in a much more taco-style arrangement, but maybe knowledge of tacos has fallen drastically over time. (Tacos ARE mentioned once in passing, but they're hypothetical in the context: Robbie from the Xenofresh/Blend/Aurora radiant quests can mention "chasmbass tacos" as what will "maybe" be at the coordinates you're given; spoiler alert, there are no tacos there, just Aurora)

willow pollen
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I mean, a hotdog is a sandwich and that is usually connected, heros are too, maybe they're counting a wrap as a sandwich because of something like that

sage pewter
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Anything in SF lore that specifies what the matrimonial practices of the Varuun are. Would it cause a scandle if an embassy worker married someone from another planet/religion/faction?

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Or, I guess more importantly, would having a child with a non-varuun be an issue within the Varrun community?

scenic loom
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hmmm good question
they never said anything about it, but I would assume unless the child was born in Dazra, then its a heretic child

sage pewter
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Ah yeah. So it really wouldn't matter if the mother was an NA female of an ashta.. It would be shunned either way.
Im working on a backstory for a new playthrough. I was thinking raised in NA with father being a Varuun embassy worker with the mother being his NA counterpart.
Which also makes me think, I gotta look into when all the embassy workers left, as that would dictate my character's age.

scenic loom
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nice, sounds cool
id like to one day make a Va'ruun run, where my character and her parents are somewhat similar to Andreja
and they are in hiding, either because they deserted House Va'ruun or are waiting for the next crusade to happen, dunno which backstory to go with yet lol

sage pewter
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At least for the next through Unity trips anyway

rigid kiln
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House va'ruun is the only based faction in the game

high copper
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wrong
L.I.S.T is

mossy cobalt
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Wrong

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Specifically Akila is. In fact, they're the only location in the game that's confirmed by multiple sources (or ANY sources, for that matter) to have elections.

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I'd say Freestar as a whole but Neon is a monarchy and Narion/Valo are just a mess

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I guess if you RP as a resident of Akila City specifically then the Freestar Collective itself wouldn't be such a bad faction though. At least you do get a say in who's on the Council (unlike any other resident of the Settled Systems, I'd add)

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(Not 100% serious in saying LIST is wrong though, they're rather based too but at least Akila has the Rangers and Militia in town to keep the Spacers out)

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I know "has a system in place to change the government without bloodshed" is a low bar for "based" status, but literally only one location in the entire setting passes that bar so I have no choiced but to bestow the "based" title upon them.

high copper
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List is more or less like a charity for people wanting to live outside any governing systems, by providing some basic things, but of course they can't protect them from spacers or anyone else, so it's mostly up to the individuals to try and protect themselves

mossy cobalt
#

Not much of a charity. People have to pay for star charts and access to LIST routes and whatnot. Granted the costs are low so maybe it's a bit like them making a "mandatory donation" to keep the routes running I guess

high copper
#

right I guess charity was the wrong term

scenic loom
mossy cobalt
#

They do seem to be run by volunteers. Maybe it's some kind of weird hybrid of non-profit and for profit activities, like how Mozilla is a non-profit but also runs a for-profit enterprise with an ad service and a VPN. (Mozilla is pretty based too BTW, I realize they run those businesses to bring in money to keep the browser development active, but it's still a weird structure for a non-profit)

mossy cobalt
#

"volunteer-led"?

ashen seal
#

We need more insane lore, someone needs to get Micheal Kirkbride on the horn

jaunty ginkgo
#

I toyed with the idea some in the roleplay channel some time ago, I sort of came to the conclusion and you first need to establish the mundane (the game as it is) before making and discerning the weird (Va'ruun, JInan's first revelation and failed attempts to recreate the meeting with the Great Serpent, the implications of Vortex Horrors being produced due to entering "Grav" without guidance of the Grav Drive, etc etc)

#

🤔 Now that I mention it I remembered something https://www.polygon.com/2019/3/27/18281082/elder-scrolls-morrowind-oral-history-bethesda

So we all had kind of different agendas in the creation of the world that we knew would dovetail into Morrowind. And the true north of that was a quote: “Tell me the dog’s story.” I don’t know if Ken got that somewhere or not. But Kurt Kuhlmann, my boon companion — he’d made a board game about the Peloponnesian War, and whenever I would go crazy with something in the society, he would always bring it back to logistics: “If these guys are enslaving people, why? What does it do for them, financially? What does it do to borders?”

Ken said, “You know, you tell God’s story, and Kurt tells the farmer’s story or the soldier’s story. But I want to know the dog’s story.”

And I’m like, “Whaaaaat? That sounds wise.”

It doesn’t matter that we have all these mythic heroes and all this magic and this unlikelihood. How does the pet regard it when it’s getting scraps under the table? And it was a very great way to work. We’d slide between these — I wouldn’t call them specialties — but just what appealed to us. So, much like Kurt would take my stuff and interrogate the logistics of it, Ken would turn around and make it into a homily that they sing at the temple or whatever. And all of that just made it feel more real, so that when they really did start development, we just knew what the world was.

Polygon
Morrowind: An oral history

‘Here’s a world. Go play it how you wanna play it’

jaunty ginkgo
#

What would be a perfect excuse to implement mechs, given the treaties and the game's themes of forward hope toward lasting peace?

Spitballing: maybe "Large Pest" extermination? It would extend the environmentalist themes of Vanguard questlines and the possible conflict of interests toward using the mech just for said pest extermination

unreal sonnet
#

Best way to implement mechs is to have them used by factions who don't care about the treaty, namely Crimson Fleet and Ecliptic. There are plenty of mech salvage yards where they could be recovered and repaired. As for the player? Steal one from one of those groups, although there's no real way they'd be allowed to have it anywhere that actually checks the ship.

jaunty ginkgo
#

I still think people would want an official sanction by governments for their roleplay

scenic loom
#

if Mechs were to be useable again ingame
imo, it mostly likely will be through a story expansion
and id think its either due to another colony war or maybe in a far away system that isnt under any government

pastel bolt
# unreal sonnet Best way to implement mechs is to have them used by factions who don't care abou...

I like the idea of a new ecliptic sub faction, like a clandestine branch of the ecliptic that specializes in fringe technology and grey market contracts between the UC, FS, and Pirates. Maybe they send you in to shut down an illegal Mech factory. Maybe you need the mech suit to fight off terrormorphs, abominations, and sentient AI robots created by rouge science labs. Maybe you get paid to either keep the secrets of or expose the factions who financed the raided labs.

plush coral
unreal sonnet
plush coral
#

Yeah but I will say the soldier not being able to go back to normal after a war was really well done, genuinely I wish there was a non leathal option or an option to have a 1v1 to let his people go free or pay for their treatment to get them able to adjust in normal life, the quest line after that point felt unfinished to me

pastel bolt
scenic loom
plush coral
#

I do think mech piloting should be unavailable to the player since the fleet, UC, and freestar don’t use mechs or xenoweapons

scenic loom
unreal sonnet
#

I would be happy having them as occasional bosses, but not pilotable

plush coral
#

Having it limited to missions sounds good, could be another reason to go into the archives and get sciatics or instructions on how to pilot mechs, this time the freestar needing to convince the UC and Va’ruun, I also feel like we’d need rocket launchers for reasons

unreal sonnet
#

I'd love to see at least one set of shouldered weapon animations

plush coral
#

I mean you can’t very well fight a massive ass robot with a grenade launcher and a six shooter… so I think a missile launcher would be the smallest ordinance we’d need to tackle one going by what we know of mechs just now

unreal sonnet
#

You know what I'd really love to see are mounted guns/manual turrets. They could be reused for so much.

pastel bolt
#

I'd like to pilot it in outdoor fights, shoot down ships, grab enemies by the leg and throw them at the walls like tomatoes

plush coral
#

I could see a continuation of the UC plotline with the man downstairs escaping custody and committing war crimes

scenic loom
pastel bolt
scenic loom
#

expect less and you will be less disappointed
learned that the hard way years ago

pastel bolt
#

you do you bro

scenic loom
# pastel bolt you do you bro

closes thing I can see Bethesda pull off is either a walking mech that walks around shooting missiles and lasers
or maybe a giant slow moving power armor

pastel bolt
#

we have power armor armor in other titles and a mech suit is just like over sized power armor and we already have effects in game that let you pick thigs up or throw people

#

in either case i don't need to be a pessimist about the capabilities of people i don't know personally

scenic loom
#

im just telling folks to go easy on hoping for things that Bethesda has not really done ...yet

pastel bolt
#

my ideas all stuff already been done

#

just mushed together

scenic loom
#

i have full faith in what Bethesda can pull off
just wish most people who arent into Bethesda games would be realistic in their expectations

pastel bolt
#

oh ya i heard some of the crazier ones

scenic loom
#

yep

#

now that i think about it....
if Mechs do become a thing later on

will Bethesda restrict starborn powers
or can we use them inside the mechs? sasihmmm

pastel bolt
#

But... Ecliptic are like an ambiguous military for hire so I'd think when factions want something done quietly then ecliptic are the ones to call

scenic loom
#

sounds about right

pastel bolt
scenic loom
#

aah, true that

pastel bolt
#

but some things might work hard to say what they might do

scenic loom
#

pretty much yea

pastel bolt
#

I notice all the other factions have some kind of subfaction except for ecliptic so i was kinda hoping that might be like morally ambigous tech armory in future updates

#

just ideas

scenic loom
#

inb4 L.I.S.T surprises us with their own mechs lol

pastel bolt
#

?

scenic loom
#

lol making a joke about L.I.S.T being a secret power house

pastel bolt
#

hah

scenic loom
#

either way, heres hoping Mechs get added on at some point
Pick up the pace, Bethesda!

pastel bolt
#

list is to comedicly under funded but I think it would be a fun change of perspective if after some kind of introduction mission you see the ecliptic as allies who are securing dangerous tech and protecting the decommissioned facilities you find them in. Maybe you can find the leader of the facility and help them defend the place against a few waves of spacers

scenic loom
unreal sonnet
#

Would be nice if they were a 'warn' faction though. More territorial than shoot on sight.

scenic loom
#

that be nice

pastel bolt
pastel bolt
scenic loom
#

im just hoping each of the factions get some kind of expansion at some point
doesnt have to be story expanded but just more out of them

pastel bolt
#

In the first one they fleshed out the varuun culture i think expanding the lore of other factions in future dlc could be an easy direction

#

except the starborn that seems like a really odball story they will need to excplain their origins

scenic loom
#

yup

#

theres a lot of things they gotta expand in the base game
so heres hoping story expansions and future updates do add more

pastel bolt
#

they gotta tie a whole bunch of stuff together to make the starborn story im not holding my breath on it but i think everyone wants to know about the civilization that made all that who puts you in your cloths and a new ship

#

whos designing these ships

scenic loom
#

for sure
tho, if i had to guess, theres a chance they might make the creators and the starborn stuff remain a mystery still
similar to how they do it with ES with the gods and all that ancient civ stuff

pastel bolt
#

like the dwimer

#

plot twist they are the dwimmer, you are the dragon born

scenic loom
#

...and so the Bethesda-verse continues to expand

pastel bolt
# scenic loom ...and so the Bethesda-verse continues to expand

What got me really thinking about it was when your talking to the captain of the UC Vigilance a legendary ship and he's at war with the pirates, but when he mentions hiring the Ecliptic, it gives you the option to warn that guy about messing with them.

scenic loom
#

that be neat
to see if the base game also gets its current content expanded too
dunno if Bethesda will do it but that be great to see different outcomes than what we got

silk lotus
#

Is it just me or is the trackers alliance just a little bit corrupt? Like you can pay off your bounty from most cities and even the key and walk freely. Just imagine you can commit a crime( like stealing or piracy) and for a price less than what you make from said crime you can basically pay the trackers alliance a small cut of your spoils and walk freely without a bounty.

#

Matter of fact that is what my pirate character did. Just pay a small cut of my spoils and no bounty for me.

umbral grove
#

Can someone tell me where ingame I can learn more about the war between the UC and Freestar Collective?

Also, which planets/cities are owned by either faction?

plush coral
#

The first UC vanguard mission pushing all the buttons in the orientation hall gives a good bit of info especially if you have Sam with you

umbral grove
#

Doesn't that only show the UC perspective though?

daring lake
# umbral grove Doesn't that only show the UC perspective though?

Yes and also no. The vocal narrative talks up the UC and does use negative language
when talking about the other factions. So this makes some folk view it as propaganda.

However, the facts and dates presented are accurate. The details of the Narion war pull
no punches and highlight that UC citizens were critical of an administration that they
saw as acting in an unfair and brutal way.

The Vanguard Hall is a recruitment tool, so not very surprising that they "big-up" the UC
And given that no one except the cabinet knows about Vae Victus, I don't see the presentation
as telling lies. Rather, that things are presented as public knowledge.

plush coral
#

When you have Sam with you he chimes in on the colony war and shares more perspective, there’s also notes you can pick up from members of the first that explain the perspective of the mech pilots, and Vae Victis can tell you a little about the battle of chyanne

sick turtle
#

Hi folks. I know it's entirely unproblematic in-game to be a member of the Freestar Rangers and UC Vanguard, but from a roleplay perspective, wouldn't this be difficult to reconcile? I know the war between the UC and FC has been over for a couple of decades, but it seems like they are still rivals. I'm trying to play SF at least with a nod to being lore consistent.

jaunty ginkgo
#

Vanguard accepts pilots from any origin to start with, Freestar Rangers I'm not sure

nocturne night
#

I justify it as the Ranger Questline being my Vanguard/SysDef operative being undercover

mossy cobalt
#

Regarding the Vanguard orientation hall, it's pretty much unanimously agreed to be propagandistic, yes. As you probably noticed, multiple in-game characters call it propaganda, and multiple points in the hall directly contradict information we learn elsewhere about events covered by its timeline. That being said, Vimes is also correct that it's the best information available on some points, i.e. in areas where we don't hear from any other sources.

#

My favorite example of it being ludicrously wrong is when it says that the Freestar Collective won the battle of Cheyenne because they used "human shields", which directly contradicts both the out-of-game documentation (Bethesda's timeline of the war on the Starfield site) and also in-game information, notably Vae Victis himself saying the Freestar citizens in the system jumped in willingly to fire on the invading UC ships.

#

That's not the only inaccuracy. I think there's reason to believe the attack on Vesta also didn't occur the way it's portrayed in the Vanguard propaganda hall, for example, and I could give sources on that as well. But I like to take the time to push back on the "human shields" thing whenever I have the opportunity anyway, because it's such an egregious example.

turbid elk
#

Okay, I need to ask, When can I freaking have an Battleship or Carrier?

umbral grove
#

@daring lake @plush coral @mossy cobalt Thanks!

sick turtle
mossy cobalt
#

I tend to join the Rangers first (at least to the extent of dealing with the bank standoff; usually also Montara Luna) partly due to proximity; entering Akila City triggers the opening part. I usually only join SysDef or the Vanguard at the point that my character happens to run into them, but that's almost always long after my first visit to Akila City.

I mention that because I suspect the Vanguard would have less issue with a Ranger joining than the Rangers would have with a UC military captain joining. The Rangers are very selective, and they're in a much higher position in the FC than the Vanguard holds in the UC. Plus, the Vanguard ordinarily seems to do just various low-priority patrols and the like, so clearance type concerns don't seem to be an issue.

The point I'm making is that I didn't find myself very conflicted about the scenario making sense, because I've always done it in the order of Rangers -> Vanguard. Vanguard -> Rangers seems like it would be a tougher sell, but I haven't run into that scenario on any of my characters so I'm not sure what the best answer to it is.

#

Now, as to whether the Rangers would have an issue with someone joining the Vanguard after becoming an active Ranger, I think they operate on trust strongly enough that they'd go with it. Rangers seem to often just roam around seeking out crime until they're called onto a more organized mission. Maybe the way I'm seeking out crime is taking Vanguard patrols and keeping an eye open for anything that links into FC crime activity 🤷

#

Autumn MacMillan is allowed to join your crew and venture off to the other side of the Settled Systems on the understanding that the Marshal doesn't have anything more useful for her to be doing. Maybe the FC keeps official Rangers investigations on a tight leash. If it's hard to actually open up work for a Ranger to do, that would also explain why there are so few Rangers to begin with.

silk lotus
#

What if the whole point of the unity is to change/effect the universe left behind? Like the unity tells us how all of our choices effect people and even their beliefs and values in some dialogues. So it's a means of altering a universe while also allowing a person to go to another universe and possibly change the next as well?

jaunty ginkgo
#

My interpretation is that changing the place left behind is just an extension of the self-expression of the human

silk lotus
#

To fuze our essence with the unity and universe.

jaunty ginkgo
#

By way of a part being imprinted into the universe, the other making the jump, yea

silk lotus
#

Maybe that there was the whole point of the unity. To imprint upon the universe and through intention or oversight a part of us is sent elsewhere. That part that is sent elsewhere could be a variable thrown into a other universe to spread that person's influence in a way?

#

Maybe the creators themselves using the unity to imprint their own selves upon the universe and human basically found their left over temples.

#

Maybe the true creators are gone but a part of them exist elsewhere.

upper drum
# turbid elk Okay, I need to ask, When can I freaking have an Battleship or Carrier?

I'm assuming you mean something along the lines of the legendary faction ships you can encounter or the UC Vigilance?

Currently as the game stands now. We can't have those types of ships. (Likely due to how ridiculously impossible it would be to land on a planet.) That isn't to say Bethesda will never implement them as a sort of mobile space base/player home in the future. Like how NMS utilizes it's Freighters.

That said, you can build some pretty massive ships and create your own Battleship. Maybe not as big as what you're imagining but certainly powerful enough to bring down a M Class and it's armada.

turbid elk
#

True.

scenic loom
#

if Bethesda does plan to add M-class ships
they most likely will be stationary on orbit like space stations that we can fly around with

#

when we saw what happens with the Oracle station in SS, part of me likes to think of it as a teaser for space stations and M-class ships to eventually be added in later on

upper drum
#

My guess is we will be able to construct/Edit them at a staryard and it will allow us to dock/hangar at least one of our ships so we can take off and land on planets etc. It would be awesome if we could use the capital ship for travel and combat, but for Planetary exploration we'd still need to be able to access one of the A, B or C Class.
So will probably have a ship tech type integration that allows us to swap what active A, B or C class we have docked/ landed in it. I know a lot of people want to be able to dock and see all their ships or something, but given game limitation M classes aren't large enough to host massive C classes in them.

scenic loom
#

yeah, its possible that M-class ships will basically be floating/pilotable star stations for the most part

silk lotus
#

I know it's never brought up in game. But if the crimson fleet ending did happen I could see repercussions that were never mentioned by the unity. The loss of uc sysdef would result in a power vaccum that could result in the trackers alliance expanding to take on more threats or more likely imo the uc and FC would rely more on ecliptic to take on the fleet possibly by hiring them to protect and escort ships to keep them safe. There is also the economic impact that would possibly result in more businesses and people using guard ships for protection from piracy as well.

#

And the ecliptic mercenaries were already in conflict with the fleet considering both try to take and hold old abandoned points of interest planetside.

high copper
#

They could be a major faction with their ending and a part could be cause, UC and FC fought a war with each other and there was losses like how Del talks about on the slates

velvet latch
# silk lotus And the ecliptic mercenaries were already in conflict with the fleet considering...

Unity says enough. If you stay, it's brought up going past news kiosks. Beyond that if aligned to Pirates the paradigm of what actions you undertake change. Repercussions for actions impacts you remaining in that universe. Reality would likely be SysDef absorbed into UC Navy & tasked with protection. They'd have to better protect systems and stations in both FC and UC. Can't see much they can change in game to reflect that outcome.

Think it makes DLC questionable because the Vigilance, Key complicate furthering narrative. New narratives about Fleet likely side missions in other quests. Otherwise the Key explodes taking out anything in area killing the same cadre of people with Naeva off somewhere else at time. UC rejoicing turns to horror, grieving then appointing new leadership or aligning remaining staff/vessels solely under UC Navy.

pastel bolt
rigid kiln
#

We should just nuke them

silk lotus
pastel bolt
scenic loom
#

i have a feeling they have grown past a "respected" defense contractor these days
id like to think they still work as a well known Merc group but will also do whatever they want

pastel bolt
silk lotus
pastel bolt
#

I think their forces are spread thin since receiving all these decomssioned facilties from both sides after the war

scenic loom
#

They strike me as a group that eventually gets greedy and does some shady stuff on the side

pastel bolt
scenic loom
pastel bolt
#

Their recent activities seem to be giving them a bad reputation but I think this is only possible because they started off with a much better reputation and are still entrusted with sensative contracts from all factions out of a certain respect they still garner.

#

My conspiracy is that they've only recently become more hostile since excepting all the decommissioned facilities for salvage they might not have had the resources they needed to secure those places and the war crime level contraband technologies that were being manufactured at those places.

#

Like getting the permission from both sides feels like a win for them to turn a profit but between fighting off looters and encountering abominations it turns out to be more trouble than it's worth. That might make them start to resent everyone else and give them a justification for over stepping to protect a greater good.

scenic loom
#

sounds about right, yea

pastel bolt
#

Another thing I think really sets them apart is that the other factions want to destroy each other for control. Where as it's in Ecliptics best interests to keep things the way they are without any political affiliation to ensure they can turn a profit playing the middle. If any of the factions got too powerful then their services wouldn't be needed.

#

Maybe profiting from both sides helped defund the war and bolster their ranks, but in peace times they find themselves unappreciated and underfunded but still shouldered with responsibility of handling the other factions dirty work. Maybe they are angry and rude because they know about the secret corruptions from all sides and consider their neutrality as a sort of moral high ground. That's just my little conspiracy.

umbral grove
pastel bolt
# umbral grove They don't abide by morals, they just take any contract. The good they do is bec...

They aren't robots forced to follow the commands of the highest bidder, they are human defense contractors running a business. Doing what's best for business not picking sides. The fact they send troops after you has more to do with them recognizing you as a potential problem. As a superhuman Starborn you are a dangerous enough entity that you can take out their troops, steal their ships, and even destroy their flag ship Camulus single handedly. Even if you're doing good things you're still a competitor handling the kind of work contracts that would have otherwise gone to them. If you make a mess of things you have the luxury of escaping through the unity where as they are left behind to deal with the repercussions of your decisions.

umbral grove
#

Also, killing people for doing good is immoral

pastel bolt
#

They are hired by another Starborn to protect a facility from you so I think it be safe to say they consider you a threat. And the perk that makes them come after you is based on there already being a bounty on you.

umbral grove
pastel bolt
umbral grove
#

That ain't an argument

#

Attacking a guy who hasn't done anything but mined up some artifact is 100% unjustified

pastel bolt
#

I agree to disagree, just because we don't know why they attack you doesn't mean they didn't have a valid reason. At no point do they say you're guilty of existing. That's just you're interpretation because it's not explained why they are hostile toward you.

umbral grove
#

There's not much to disagree on 💀

Step 1: Mine artifact
Step 2: Land on a planet
Step 3: Get attacked for the crime of existing when an Ecliptic ship lands

umbral grove
pastel bolt
#

Nope just because we don't know their reasons, doesn't mean they don't have reasons. Making stuff yp to validate your arguemwnt is on you.

umbral grove
#

Burden of proof

#

Maybe they're killing us to harvest our organs to sell, given the contraband we typically find on their ships

umbral grove
scenic loom
#

Chunks will for sure rise up and take over the universe.... one day potatoderp

pastel bolt
#

No i said we don't know their reason your the one goin on about how your only guilty of existing cuz u like the sound of it

umbral grove
umbral grove
#

And I repeat, you can literally be on a desolate planet in the middle of nowhere and they can show up and open fire on you - zero indication of any supposed contract.

pastel bolt
#

Off the top of my head anyone could have hired them to recover that artifact that you first leave the planet with

umbral grove
pastel bolt
#

You don't know what they know

umbral grove
#

I mean, the only reason the Crimson Fleet attacked was because they chased the Constellation, they didn't know about the artifact

#

And the artifacts themselves are not that well-known until we deliver the one to Constellation

#

But by all means, provide a source stating they were looking for an artifact

pastel bolt
#

All I'm saying is it's ambiguous if you want to prove that they're inherently evil that's on you I just disagree because I don't draw the same conclusions

umbral grove
#

Because you don't see them attacking innocents as evil 💀

pastel bolt
#

No no if we don't know what the reasons are we don't know if these people actually are innocent or maybe they've broken some rule or violated something that we don't know

#

Spacers and Raiders or thieves but on multiple occasions were told that these are actually paid marks their job is to take contracts people wouldn't otherwise take at no point do they say that their mission is to go around killing people for being innocent

#

That's more like varuun who say we are all guilty of being heretics

umbral grove
#

It's the same with the Gunners in FO4, they are thugs unless they are hired

pastel bolt
#

The pc starts the game with an artifcat that the other starborn are looking for

umbral grove
#

And that magically makes it a-okay to murder them for the crime of mining it up? 🤔

#

And I repeat, they can literally land on a random spot on a random planet and start killing you

#

I've even seen them occupying farms

pastel bolt
#

But there's no actual explanation for why they're doing what they're doing if you want to say the reason is because they're inherently evil that's up to you I'm just saying since we don't know it could be ambiguous enough that there might be an alternative reason that makes more sense than simply calling them the bad guys

umbral grove
#

What reason do you conjure up to explain why a random person exploring a desolate planet gets fired upon by the Ecliptic as soon as they land?

#

What indication is there in the game of moral ambiguity with them?

#

As said, they are just like the Gunners in FO4.

pastel bolt
#

I'm gonna agree to disagree because its never explained why they attack you and you can't qrap your head around any kind of alternative to the narrative you came up with

umbral grove
#

I don't recall the BoS attacking innocents for merely walking in their general vicinity
Edit: Also, stop editing your comments to completely alter what they said.

Your narrative is headcanon and is unsupported by the context of our encounters with the faction. You're free to hold to that belief, but don't use it as an argument when it runs counter to the game.

pastel bolt
#

No I'm speculating on things that aren't confirmed for the sake of amusement where as you seem to be hell bent on arguing against any different opinion

near slate
#

Let's stay positive and constructive please.

pastel bolt
near slate
#

I'm just providing a gentle reminder for everyone.

keen acorn
#

I was thinking. So the SS DLC introduces that Zealots were all House Ma'leen. Anasko expelled House Ma'leen. So each house had duties. What was House Ma'leen's main duty before being kicked out? I have not found information on that.

high copper
keen acorn
high copper
#

Maintain
The
Agenda

keen acorn
high copper
#

What were the other houses tasks

keen acorn
#

I am not pulling them all up. Each existing house has a designation. Like House of Regulations, House of Conjunction, etc.

#

I know we have Ma'leen Dam. But that is not the House designation (Job).

pastel bolt
jaunty ginkgo
#

My guess is that their role got subsumed by one of the Houses or something (I want to say Veth'aal if the case), or simply died with the House to the extent that a House embodies a facet of Va'ruun society

unreal sonnet
upper drum
rigid kiln
#

It happened 11 years after he died

ashen seal
frozen glen
#

a tree literally entered in my outpost

#

Does anyone know how can I send images btw?

#

ops wrong channel

scenic loom
frozen glen
#

than you

ashen seal
#

Thats called a surprise tree, that was “handcrafted” and personally coded by GODD Howard himself so you could see the 16 times the detail of the tree.

#

Or it’s a just a funny bug.

desert zinc
pastel bolt
# keen acorn I am not pulling them all up. Each existing house has a designation. Like House ...

Technically there are only 3 ministries and these 4 minor houses are only relevant by association to them. In this context Ma'leen is only relevant because they were exiled for being fanatics that opposed the ministries.
If they had started out as part of a 4th defunct ministry.
My conspiracy is that Jinan created 4 branches.
Internal, External, Material, and Ethereal.
State, Conjunction, commerce, and Clergy.
After Jinan's death this Clergy of crusaders slowly fall out of favor. Without Jinan's direct approval they lose validity, and without the crusade they're unnecessary.
They try to retain authority by propping up Jinan as their martyr and want to continue his crusade led by his son Jandar.
The other 3 ministries form a majority that sides with Jarek. They see Jinans death as an harbinger that they should end the costly crusade and work toward peace.
By 2274 tensions come to a head and House Ma'leen with all the fundamentalists it's attracted are exiled. By removing all it's members the 4th ministry power was dissolved and faded into obscurity. The zealots, despite being exiled see themselves as the only real varuun and everyone else as heretics.
The power vacuum of it's removal leaves the remaining factions to squabble about leadership and the implications of their actions in a religious context without Jinan or his clergy to provide more definitive interpretations.

umbral grove
#

What do you guys think of Vae Victis/François Sanon?

||Personally, I consider him defending himself against the FC civilians justified. When you go out of your way to enter combat, you cease to be a civilian and become an enemy combatant.||

||For Londinion, it is complicated. I think it's bad for the innocents who died, but I do understand his considerations before he destroyed the spaceport; the Terrormorphs were a major threat, and the Lazarus Plant too big of an unknown. With the limited knowledge of the plant, maybe Sanon believed it was transported to the city to be used as a weapon of war? He did not want to take chances of a similar such attack happening elsewhere.||

||I strongly oppose his attacks on Tau Ceti and New Atlantis, primarily for the main motif of it: Clearing the Sanon name and revenge. His second goal with it is kind of valid, exterminating the terrormorph threat, which the UC never would have done without these attacks.||

||I also support his post-story quests to wipe out threats. The targets are people associated with pirates, spacers, or the Va'ruun zealots. I fully believe him when he says they are threats to the UC based on the figures they associate with.||

safe kite
#

VV did nothing wrong, canonically.

umbral grove
#

I wouldn't go so far as to say nothing

daring lake
#

VV is a desperate sad old man. Justifying murder in the name of security.
His bombardment of Londinion was done to ensure no knowledge of the plant
and its effect on 'leeches left the planet. He had a duty to tell the Cabinet what
he had found, yet he decided not to. The 'Morph threat could have been dealt with
there and then. But he chose to use the knowledge for his own personal aims.

umbral grove
#

I mean, his fear of spies was rational, and the UC itself also had the option to..
You know... investigate why Londinion suddenly became the target of a terrormorph attack. They didn't.

Had Sanon not done as he did, the UC wouldn't have acted.

daring lake
#

Londinion did not suddenly become a target. It was the depletion of the Aceles combined
with the plant that allowed the 'Morphs to flourish. The UC had the finest Xeno science team
and facilities to combat any 'Morph outbreak. They did not investigate or take any anti-Morph
action because VV withheld information. If the Cabinet had the knowledge then they would at
least have had a choice.
VV commited murder to further his own agenda.

umbral grove
#

It was a sudden outbreak in the city ||caused by a plant, supposedly not found anywhere else|| - that is reason for suspicion. This wasn't one or two terrormorphs, it was enough to wipe out a city.

The UC didn't take any anti morph action because they did not care. They still do not care when the game starts. ||It takes a strike against the capital for them to change their tune.||

Sanon's argumentation is valid - if knowledge of the cause ||being a plant|| spread out to the wrong people, they'd have an interstellar crisis. The whole attack ||on Tau Ceti and New Atlantis|| was only possible because the UC did nothing against terrormorphs in the 20 years since the Colony War.

daring lake
umbral grove
#

It being native or not is besides the point - the outbreak in the city came from a ||large quantity of them in the city||.

You mean to tell me those were always there and just "suddenly" caused a massive outbreak? In a major city needed by the UC in the war? Sure seems like a strange coincidence now doesn't it?

daring lake
#

Well, you have to consider why Londinion was built. Before that time the 'Morphs + Leeches
were hunted (and effectively and consistently culled) by Aceles. So their numbers were
naturally controlled.
Londinion was built as a processing centre and distribution hub for the Aceles. The UC's food program
made the Aceles extinct on Toliman II. And so Leech and 'Morph numbers became uncontrolled.

#

They became the apex predator as a result of the removal of the Aceles

umbral grove
#

It was a sudden outbreak in the city - a result of the plant... which was located within said city. How did that plant get into the city? Why is it only found inside the city?

Again, you mean to tell me that's a coincidence? Aceles or not, Londinion was doomed because of that plant and the Heatleeches within its confines.

daring lake
#

If the Aceles were still there then the outbreak would not have happened.
I don't see it as a coincidence. The plant is known to be native, and so must also
be found outside the city. We encounter the plant in the steam tunnels where it
seems to be thriving in the warm. I don't see any problem with that itself.
And, because the Leeches were no longer hunted, and free to roam wherever they
wanted - not unusual to see them gravitate to the heat of the steam tunnels.
Do you think that there is a sinister explanation for the fall of Londinion?

umbral grove
#

You think the Aceles were roaming around in the city or something?

Hadrian also states the Lazarus plant couldn't be "cultivated anywhere but Londinion", which adds up with the plant not being anywhere else on the planet. Which also leads to the next question - who brought it to the city, from where, and why?

The "why" seems obvious, someone brought them over with the intent of ravaging the UC food sources from the city. Where the plant originated from and who brought it over is the bigger question.

To bring this back to François Sanon, his considerations seem legit - this plant is located in the city and caused an outbreak in the midst of a war with the FC? Why take the risk of the potential planter sharing their knowledge with the FC to cause such an outbreak on New Atlantis, or Cydonia, or Gagarin?

daring lake
#

No, I don't think they were roaming around the city. Cultivation (for me at least) means
to be purposefully cared for and grown. Growing out in the wild does not require cultivation.
With no Aceles, the leeches were free to enter the city. I don't see a problem with this reasoning.

pastel bolt
#

I think VV wanted to keep it a secret because it would have been too easy for any faction to weaponize. He couldn't even trust the leadership of his own faction to do the right thing. The teramorphs have telepathic abilities so without the achilleas they staged an attack against their only real threat the city of humans. Maybe it was just a matter of time before their numbers were great enough that attacking the city would feel like a culling rather than suicidal.

umbral grove
daring lake
#

No, I'm not saying that at all.

umbral grove
#

Also, if it cannot be cultivated outside Londinion, shouldn't that also kind of mean it cannot live outside of it?

Otherwise, what's keeping someone from cultivating it?

pastel bolt
daring lake
#

I try to deal in "say what you see" And I don't want to get drawn into personal arguments.
If there is any evidence of the fall of Londinion being caused by a deliberate act, we have yet
to see it.

umbral grove
umbral grove
pastel bolt
daring lake
#

Although you seem to be suspicious of some Freestar (or possibly 3rd party) involvement?

umbral grove
umbral grove
daring lake
#

Interesting. Well, it would certainly add a twist to the story 🙂

umbral grove
#

Maybe some particularly devious Va'ruun zealots brought it over from some other planet, maybe it was made through genetic modifications on another plant.

I just refuse to believe that by pure happenstance Londinion got wiped out.

pastel bolt
daring lake
#

Well, speculation abounds that the 'Morphs also are not truly native to Toliman II.
Who knows? Are we suffering from the "bad writing" that some folk claim? Or is
there more, as yet unrevealed, stuff to come?
Also, where is Proxima? 🙂

umbral grove
umbral grove
pastel bolt
umbral grove
#

It laying dormant is something I could see being the case. Though that still begs that question:
Who brought them into the steam tunnels?

Because those tunnels are clearly built - those plants wouldn't be able to naturally get inside there.

pastel bolt
#

the steam tunnels just inadvertently added the final component of warmth for them to grow around and eventually pierce. Tiny cracks in the pipes would get filled by the invasive plant and go unrepaired, like daisies from asphalt. Then some lucky heat leaches are drawn in by the warmth and find plants they can eat. Then the steam system becomes an inadvertent staging area for the teramorph hordes " I'm totally just speculating " I was also curious if they were all part of the same original ecosystem then do the plants have a similar effect on Achillies changing them into some new animal we haven't seen yet that was dangerous enough to see teramorphs as simply food ? Will choosing the Achilies blow up in our faces later ?

daring lake
#

My attitude towards VV (being a villain that is) is strengthened by the similarity between
him and Major Hull. Both tasked with, and focused on, winning battles. Both heavily concerned
about their sense of personal honour. And both willing to kill anyone to bite back at a leadership
they saw as weak. At the time we encounter them they are Colony War fossils with no enemies
except the ones they create.

slate valley
#

How were they generating the steam in those steam pipes? I am inclined to believe the city was built on top of a natural feature, a hot spring (like the ones we have here on earth). The Lazarus plant was already there and the first settlers chose to preserve it in place. The steam pipes used to warm the building interiors is solid engineering. Using what nature has already provided. The plant was always there. Nothing nefarious about it at all. Thats my thoughts on the subject. And Vae Victis is a war criminal who deserved the sentence the court passed on him.

umbral grove
# daring lake My attitude towards VV (being a villain that is) is strengthened by the similari...

Idk about that. The plant was a big unknown until the events at Londinion, its discovery at the same time of the outbreak did not give Sanon the luxury of time to carefully consider every option, especially with its timing in the war, with the UC on the verge of decimating the FC.

He weighed his options and risks attached to it. He knew he couldn't save the city, and that even if he did the risk of knowledge of the plant (or even worse, the plant itself) spreading off-world was too great a risk to accept. So he did the alternative.

daring lake
#

Ah. Whilst his actions at Londinion do flavour my opinion about him it is more about
his willingness to kill others (and sacrifice his accomplice) in order to feed his own
ego. He is a villain in my eyes 🙂

pastel bolt
# daring lake Ah. Whilst his actions at Londinion do flavour my opinion about him it is more a...

I think knowing the secret gives him an advantage after the fact, but sacrificing everyone at Londinion and keeping it a secret was probably a bad decision driven by fear and justified by paranoia. At the time, he was preventing a new form of warfare from escalating the fight, even if it would have given his side a decisive advantage, even though it meant being disgraced on a historic level and executed for it. Using that secret as a weapon many years later is what I think really makes him evil and unredeemable. If they had just executed him instead of imprisoning him he wouldn't have had all that time to grow resentment and become a terrorist.

safe kite
#

You see, canonically, VV did nothing wrong.

#

I jest, but his motivations and thought processes showcase the extremes of 'the ends justify the means' and black and white 'no he's bad' doesn't really cover the shades of grey being dealt with.

The UC would not have 'dealt with' the terrormorphs had VV told them about the plant. Given their track record, VV is correct in asserting that it would have ended up weaponized by both sides.

The UC would not have taken steps to treat the terrormorphs as an active threat and wiped them out had the attack on New Atlantis not occurred. Even after Tau Ceti, they had cold feet in responding to it appropriately.

The end result of his actions are that the Terrormorph threat is contained, one way or another. That's a net benefit.

Did people die in the process? Absolutely. But that's calculus to someone like VV - people are going to get eaten by terrormorphs either way. Would more dying over a longer period of time while the UC stays in denial be a better outcome?

The profoundly Not Cool aspects of his plan are his need for personal vindication for him and his family. That's a bit indefensible, but when you talk to him, was secondary to the overall goals. The player can also specifically deny him that vindication.

That's why I like VV as a character. He presents a morally grey pragmatist who recognizes the need to get your hands dirty to serve a wider cause. He is definitely not a hero and to most a straight villain - and that's kidn've the point. That's how the story presents it from the start, and players can happily stick to that thought process the entire time if they want. But seeing things from his point of view adds to the story, imo.

steep cove
#

I think your point is valid. The same cabinet that chose to spare him probably couldn't be trusted with the secret of the Lazerus plant. In the end, it may have been wise for him to wait for the player and a cabinet that saw the threat and was willing and able to take it seriously enough not to weaponize it.

daring lake
#

I don't dislike VV as a character. But he did everything wrong 🙂
He had a duty to let his government know about his discovery and he failed to do that.
His treatment of the UC Navy as his own personal fiefdom showed bad leadship by putting
his own personal feelings ahead of the job that he was employed to do.
He failed in his duty to the UC and he was too quick to commit murder.
The similarities between VV and Major Hull are quite striking imo.

novel sparrow
#

VV is cool, I wish there was an option to tell that bartender on the Den starstation that he’s alive

umbral grove
# pastel bolt I think knowing the secret gives him an advantage after the fact, but sacrificin...

If you're talking about his present actions, yes, I consider him ||attacking Tau Ceti and New Atlantis|| morally deplorable. His motivation for doing so is threefold:

  1. Get revenge against the UC.
  2. Clear the Sanon name.
  3. Bring the UC to exterminate terrormorphs.

The first two are morally deplorable reasons, the third... is valid, though he went about getting it in an immoral way.

The UC would've never gone after the terrormorphs on their own had NA not been attacked. Even with the major attack on Londinion they did nothing to investigate.

Ultimately it boils down to if you think the end justifies the means; do the deaths on ||Tau Ceti and in NA|| justify the establishment of a terrormorph extermination squad which could end up saving thousands?

umbral grove
#

On the topic of war criminals, do we know what Commander Henry Durant or General Indira Rastogi did to warrant death?

daring lake
#

No, nothing found on them afaik. Just the assumption that they were allies of VV

safe kite
# umbral grove On the topic of war criminals, do we know what Commander Henry Durant or General...

I got the feeling that what they did was mostly irrelevant.

They were the pound of flesh the FC demanded for peace, and they got what they wanted. Durant and Rastogi's crime; being the head of their respective branches of the military during the war. Tying it to war crime behavior, or specifically to VV, is hearsay at best, because the game doesn't get into it.

Maybe we will get more info down the line, though.

unique condor
#

As a totally unbiased freestar citizen, VV deserved to hang, xenoweapons are deplorable, mechs are badass

rigid kiln
#

death to the UC and FC

grave ferry
olive wyvern
#

Hoping someone with more lore knowledge can answer a question for me considering I have not been able to find an answer.
Did anyone survive/escape Londinion? I know what VV did and the assumptions that come with it, but would it be outside the realm of possibility? Just working on a backstory for a playthrough, lol.

daring lake
slate valley
#

Also the UC Navy imposed a blockade - nothing IN or OUT.

peak halo
#

There's references to samples of the terror morphs getting off world, samples from the attack specifically. Someone must have gotten off world before the truth was discovered

daring lake
#

The 'Morph they had in the Kreet lab would most likely have been obtained on
Toliman II. They were already a known element before the Londinion event. Samples,
and the data were already a thing.

peak halo
#

The samples mentioned are specifically from the 'Morph attack on Londinion. Meaning SOMEONE had to have gotten at least tissue samples off the planet.

safe kite
umbral grove
safe kite
#

Thought so.

olive wyvern
#

Thanks for the replies, all. It required a bit of extrapolation, but I think I have a decent way for my dude to have been born on Toliman II and have made it out alive.
We know the planet is home to the Aceles and they were farmed to perceived extinction. I figure an entire planet’s worth of Aceles farming requires outposts not located within Londinion proper.
So my dude was born in Londinion and his parents were Aceles farmers at one of those outposts. Their farm was depleted and they simply left the planet before the T-morph attack even happened. I looked for a specific date that Londinion fell, but all I could find was “sometime during the colony war.”

safe kite
#

Go for it. It's your game and your character, and the SF universe is wide enough for exceptions to the rules to occur. Obviously not every ship on the planet was at the Londinion starport when it was bombed, so it isn't a big leap to assume some people made it off. Assertions made to support personal RP is bread and butter for BGS titles.

ashen seal
runic obsidian
#

Little lore question. I've restarted again and paying attention to the tutorial for the first time since launch. The pirates you meet on Kreet mention that the Frontier has a legend around it, that it's filled with treasures and such. Is this legend ever mentioned again? I rushed through the pirate questline around launch so I don't remember if the key ever had anything about the frontiers legend.

daring lake
#

There is nothing to be found on The Key about The Frontier. You can do the whole CF questline
whilst flying the ship and no-one will bat an eye. Similar thing with The Razorleaf btw 🙂 Although
there are plenty of remarks from random pirates about The Mantis, the ship goes unrecognised.

keen acorn
ancient grove
umbral grove
ancient grove
#

Different name, same people.

#

Same building too.

daring lake
#

VV's activities did not involve the disbanded Red Devils. His plan was his own
and involved only one other known accomplice. Not a single Red Devil marine in sight 🙂
The TMD was made up of the principle Xeno weapon research team members, granted.

ancient grove
#

Hadrian Sanon, Percival Walker, and the quartermaster are all former Red Devils. Wonder how many other NPCs are.

umbral grove
ancient grove
#

The ones at the top are definitely Red Devils.

umbral grove
#

True

#

Hence the ''but I get what you mean'' bit

umbral grove
#

I just found two Aceles fighting a terrormorph and the Aceles got rekt 💀

#

I thought they were supposed to be the predator in that relationship lol

analog junco
#

They are, but it doesn't mean they always win

umbral grove
#

Sure, but losing a 2v1 is pretty odd if they're supposed to be the stronger one lol

safe kite
#

Maybe they are juveniles.

umbral grove
#

I mean, they're definifely not elderly

#

But they wouldn't be deployed if they weren't combat ready

crystal zealot
#

I have stumbled across that as well, my take is that the Asceles simply was not balanced in regards to the ingame lore.

#

Genuinely seems like an oversight from a stats perspective. The shear scale of the asceles laying into a terrormorph and they generally get stomped instead.

jaunty ginkgo
eternal widget
#

Aceles are supposed to eat heatleeches. That’s how they help with the population control of terrormorphs. I don’t think they are supposed to be able to fight off the adults.

high copper
#

still should have a buff in defence, look at their hide

eternal widget
#

Oh for sure, and they are far too weak vs. terrormorphs given their appearance, size, etc.
Still wish you could pursue both research paths for that quest, too, as bringing aceles back seems worth it even just for food.

high copper
daring lake
#

According to the in-game dialogue of the Vanguard quest, the Aceles hunted 'Morphs
and Leeches.
The debate we've had in the past about the Aceles lack of abilty in combat has centered
on the game itself, and that it has to be an error on the part of the devs.
Every piece of dialogue points to the Aceles being formidable against 'Morphs.

umbral grove
jaunty ginkgo
#

I do wish the singing in launch trailer of Shattered Space is not gibberish or something

jaunty ginkgo
#

Thinking about it further, even if it's not a real language I guess it still contributes to the culture by way of feel/vibe, with how the singing is done

pastel bolt
safe kite
#

Aceles were native to Toliman II and were not affected by the Lazarus plant, that we are aware of.

grave ferry
#

I just found out air traffic control towers still use tech from the 80s to track airplanes and stuff, and they don’t upgrade it because that would be risky.

Made me think about how Starfield’s tech seems pretty old-school despite us being a spacefaring civilization. Of course, the fall of Earth is a big reason for Starfield’s stagnation in technology but I think the “it might kill us if you change it” mentality fits, too.

eternal widget
daring lake
#

Indeed. 🙂

bright ore
# grave ferry I just found out air traffic control towers still use tech from the 80s to track...

Yeah, people are loathe to replace safety-critical systems that have been proven to be reliable. Any new system is going to have a de-bugging period, and that's especially true when the underlying physical systems are also old. Like my dad (a former nuclear engineer) told me how ONH used modern computers to emulate older systems that utilized rotating magnetic drum memories. When I was finishing my own engineering bachelor's in the late 90s, they'd moved up to emulating PDP-11s.

peak halo
#

Last I heard, most of the US' nuclear arsenal still uses windows 98 or earlier. They can't afford the downtime to upgrade, plus the debugging period.

weak hemlock
#

It's actually far less any "debugging period" (though that will happen as well) more as it's the same problems hospitals face: the software they use cannot be upgraded.

Hell, back in 2017 hospitals (and other businesses) worldwide were literally shutdown by the WannaCry ransomware because they can not use anything higher than windows XP due to software limitations. Many hospitals around the world still use it, and did at the time, Microsoft had stopped supporting it so they didn't release a patch like they did for 7 and 10.

Let's just say, very very few things make microsoft make a patch for an unsupported version. This did.

The ATC software is a custom variation of DOS, and can not run on newer hardware nor is there a "new version" and a Linux version, while in production, has some limitations people are still trying to get around (it won't interface with aircraft transponders, for instance)

Having been in the US Navy as well, same with a lot of the software for managing weapons systems there as well. While newer versions exist, they lackl functionality that is crucial.

#

Also, Starfield is the classical version of Sci-fi. Meaning "modern but future". Science Fiction in space was never, until Star Trek/Wars, this fantastical utopia in space sort of stuff.

peak halo
#

Star wars is NOT a Utopia. It's literally a war story. It has Wars in the name. The empire, Republic, and new Republic are not Utopia's, and the empire is more of a dystopia.

Star Trek is a post scarcity utopia though.

#

I imagine starfields sci-fi setting as, like, the stepping stone between modern spaceflight, and the massive interstellar empires found in things like Halo, or Battletech. (Though, thankfully it's not going the BT route: mechs have been outlawed), which are also stepping stone to the massive raid boss of 40k

bright ore
#

It's largely so-called NASAPunk, or based on how people in the 60s-80s imagined a future in space. If you look at some of the old Usborne books, Time Life's science library, etc, it's all drawn from that collective imagination. The game also borrows a fair bit from table-top Traveller. I had a lot of these sort of books as a kid, so some of the style feels familiar.

rigid kiln
umbral grove
#

UC > FC

desert zinc
peak halo
#

Utopia doesn't mean there aren't problems

umbral grove
#

I mean, it kinda does

high copper
#

Pretty sure Utopia is meant to be a society without problems
that's why it's a utopia, no suffering

umbral grove
#

^

peak halo
#

I always envision utopia just have a VERY HIGH standard of living, and aren't most of the Federations problems other, more aggressive , factions?

fierce creek
#

the literal definition is “an imagined place where everything is perfect”

#

in greek it means “no place” as in no place could compare/no place could ever achieve it

keen acorn
high copper
slate valley
#

Also, none of the factions in Starfield are good. They are all as flawed as every system/faction here in 2025 is. Only worse in my opinion, having survived the worst apocalypse imaginable they decided to fight 2 genocidal wars, who does that?

grave ferry
#

I wouldn’t describe the Narion and Colony Wars as genocidal. A historian in New Homestead says the Colony War had far fewer casualties than WW2.

high copper
#

we have to consider the current population of the current systems

keen acorn
umbral grove
#

Sure, but I kind of doubt the populations would be comparable to Earth-era populations.

Double so when taking into account how few major settlements there are.

peak halo
#

Earths population during WW1 and WW2 were MUCH smaller than they would have been before the destruction of earth. Humanity has grown nearly exponentially, not logarithmically. In the 60, earths population was roughly 3 billion. Now it's well over 8. That's 60 years, and we more than doubled population.

#

Rough estimates place earths population at 10 billion (a decline, highest estimate is 11 billion around 2150)

#

That's due to birthrate decreasing.

rigid kiln
rigid kiln
slate valley
daring lake
#

The Narion War began in 2196. It is unlikely that the war had much (if any) bearing on the numbers
of folk who survived the fall of Earth.

grave ferry
# slate valley There is never any mention of how many they managed to get off Earth before that...

I think the population only seems low because humanity is so spread out. Another person said “endless supply of spacers” but there are POIs with regular folk in them, too. Just think of how many people inhabit one planetary zone and how many planetary zones you can wrap around just one planet. That’s not counting everyone living in space. I wouldn’t be surprised if the population was bigger than 8 billion, someone needs to take a genuine crack at calculating this.

daring lake
grave ferry
#

Fair, but I still think the population isn’t quite as low as many people are speculating. There has to be a few billion at least.

vagrant bear
#

In theory maybe... though in game it doesn't feel that way. Akila is just a village, and the whole New Atlantis feels like just one district of much bigger metropolis.

umbral grove
#

I don't know. There are a couple big cities, but most communities are relatively small in population.

They lack the natural growth cycle of farms -> settlement -> more farms -> population increase.

With NA and Akila, unless if it's just random generation, but at least in my game there were several farms surrounding these cities, with smaller POIs also closer by than I found on remote planets, which adds up to NA and Akila having a larger population and thus also more draw to it.

Most of humanity appears scattered across space rather than sticking united to develop and grow on one planet.

grave ferry
#

I’d argue that grav jumping does a lot to connect us across the vast distances of space. Humanity is “scattered”, sure, but it’s never more than a few hours flight to the nearest faction hub.

vagrant bear
#

Also due to procedural generation the whole galaxy feels quite crowded. You can't be an explorer who visits some pristine planets or lands. As no matter where you'll land, even on the most remote places, there will be always some human made structures there (POIs). It's as if someone else visited all those places before you and built something there in each area of every planet. So nothing left to discover anymore as the pioneer ;p

grave ferry
safe kite
safe kite
grave ferry
sand spruce
#

The biggest population tells comes from New Homestead and the Serpent's Crusade. The Crusade was a single faction attacking the other two with such force it was a legit threat - implying the numbers aren't excessively high, since House Va'ruun isn't inherently bustling with insane numbers. The other major tell is the New Homestead historian, who points out that neither of the major UC vs FC wars got anywhere close to being on the scale of World War 2 - implying there just aren't enough people to fight a war that large. Given those things, the population likely isn't even over 500 million. A billion would be stretching it.

ashen seal
#

Is Akila Space Mexico or is space New Mexico?

silk lotus
#

Id say it's more space Texas.

near slate
silk lotus
#

Technically speaking the starborn are indeed alien... Right? If crossing a border makes you an alien then crossing the unity into a other universe also counts right?

safe kite
daring lake
#

Solomon Coe was from Wyoming. So maybe Space Wyoming? I dunno. 🙂

weak hemlock
#

For the UC we have 4, maybe 5 worlds that are inhabitable, and the FC has maybe 6. Of those 11, at least 8 need the Cydonia treatment of being a self-contained environment, away from the outside atmosphere

weak hemlock
# safe kite Alien is only a legal concept, and since there is no legal authority over a univ...

In the sense applied there, yes, alien is a legal concept, however the definition of alien extends further. Alien was first used to describe someone or something drastically different culture-wise from what one is used to. For example, to someone who's never had Asian cuisine, it can be alien to them. That's why the term has always been applied to non-human spacefaring beings.

In Starfield, Starborn are more like Celestials, less like Aliens. Aliens are the various creatures you encounter on planets, like Ashta.

umbral grove
#

On a different note, am I the only one who finds it awfully ironic that the farmer family of Homestead II talks about how they need to "preserve traditions" in case technology fails, even though the only reason their farm isn't frozen over is that same technology?

weak hemlock
#

How exactly do boost packs work? It can't simply be the movement, as that movement is something that can happen frequently, including when someone is making a jump, and we need no controls on them

keen acorn
#

There are mods to improve boost pack performance on Creations and on Nexus.

livid zinc
weak hemlock
vagrant bear
# grave ferry Well, there are entire systems with no human structures (Schrödinger, for exampl...

Thanks for the list. It looks like I visited some of those but I didn't notice the lack of human POIs as I wasn't after them while landing there. Though still we don't have "mixes" in the game I guess - so either you visit the planet/system completely "untouched", or those that feel that are explored/used fully. I haven't found a planet so far which is partially explored - like you land on one continent/area and there are human POIs there, and then you land on the other part of the land and you'll find it pristine :]

keen acorn
weak hemlock
#

That's why I'm asking--a lore discussion, and it's not technical. It's literally as simple as several theories I've seen, like there being controls in the gloves, it reacting to a nerve signal, etc.

peak halo
#

The controls are linked to a button inside the gloves, likely at the thumb, which, when pressed, activated the boost pack

#

Like how the Spartan armor has buttons in the fingers, chin, and a few other locations, within the suit, to be pressed with flesh and blood.

unreal sonnet
#

Rocketeer controls

jaunty ginkgo
#

Wait. Who are the colonies in the "United Colonies"? Is it just a formality for a name ever since the exodus from Earth, "United" as in union of once-colonies?

shell crater
weak hemlock
versed goblet
#

Has the theory of lore changes depending on the specific unverise you are in at that time? Has this been considered yet?

weak hemlock
#

As far as I can tell, the lore only applies to Constellation.

twilit axle
#

How can || Andrastos have multiple alias without scanners picking them up||

daring lake
#

For the same reason the player character can 404 File Not Found I guess

solemn bough
#

I might sound stupid but would that be because they have to be known/confirmed alias’ to the TA / criminal justice departments of the factions of the settled systems? I’m not too sure myself, could just be an oversight though

weak hemlock
#

Enhance.

twilit axle
# weak hemlock Enhance.

I think that is involved, but my best idea pure speculation is that like the trackers Andrastos can change identities that hide any bounties he may have from scanners… I think he only allowed the trackers to find him so he can formally go out.

weak hemlock
#

I think he just makes a new identity and then goes to Enhance to change his appearance. Or he steals an identity

silk lotus
#

Stealing them or he used a black market enhance like service where records are not updated to match his current look and features. I imagine enhance updates a persons profile after any surgery.

#

Like everyone has their name and identity in file except for the file not found background. So most people's names and identity are recorded and tracked somehow. Also the fact that is security will literally read our file and have dialogue about it.

weak hemlock
#

Yes. However, there's obviouslyt a certain point in life where it's not. Whether that's before a person gets their first job, or whatever, is not known. So it's reasonable to say that Andrastos/Hannibal monitors the galaxy's comings and goings and when someone dies out in the middle of nowhere (where they aren't going to be found for a while, if ever) he takes on their identity.

It was a big thing for organized crime back in the day, certain crime bosses would change cities and names every month or two to "throw the cops off". Take out a rival and dispose of the body so no one can find it, change your appearance a little, boom, new person

steady rune
# versed goblet Has the theory of lore changes depending on the specific unverise you are in at ...

I think it would be safe to say that in every universe people's backstories and lives will be either a little or a lot different. In the game we don't see this beyond Constellation because of game engine/budget/time constraints but I think that yes, every universe would have people living slightly different or drastically different lives. Maybe in some universes Bejamin Bayu isn't even the mayor of Neon. Or the United Colonies lost the Colony War to the Freestar Collective

versed goblet
steady rune
#

It would be crazy to explore a universe where like all the major cities got destroyed and you have to explore and survive in apocalyptic settings, Londinium is the surviving metropolis, etc

slender sigil
steady rune
#

I hope that is something they decide to expand on. There are so many ways they could take the unity and the Starborn.

solemn bough
grave ferry
#

I’m afraid it’s just humans all the way down to the Creators

faint cave
#

Would that be a first in sci-fi?

high copper
#

Most things have already been done, there’s always some mystery book done

steady rune
#

I am hoping that they come up with something really different. The whole it’s only humans!? Is overdone

solemn bough
#

Almost every Scifi idea is almost done- but really its not just humans, I mean they even hint there is more to the unity than you can really understand with one jump lol

peak halo
#

We are the unity experiencing itself, through itself

grave ferry
#

My thoughhts are that sentient aliens should absolutely NOT be touched. Starfield needsnto capture that “i want to believe” UFO hunting vibe, that was like the main pull in the Constellation storyline.

#

Perhaps grey aliens could be introduced as a race of interdimensional future humans

peak halo
#

I don't think there should be any living intelligent aliens. An ancient civilization, that captured the power of the Unity inside the artifacts, and distributed them in the settled systems, at most.

grave ferry
#

At most there should be goblin-like tribal beings

high copper
#

chances are they are probably going to be human like, some advanced human version, that's my theory, due to it being all timey whimey, time and space stuff

weak hemlock
#

This isn't Star Trek/Wars. Let them do the sentient humanoid aliens.

As I've said before: because of the aforementioned sci-fi series, the true sci-fi model has been pushed into near extinction. This is what Sci-Fi was initially: a more traditionally-designed and powered space ship, with humanity being the only race among the stars.

peak halo
#

The first sci-fi book that's recognized as such is Frankenstein. But even in the early days of sci-fi there were intelligent aliens. Lovecraft's stories were about ancient and powerful aliens. War of the World's was about an alien invasion. Even the early days of sci-fi movies had intelligent aliens.
And it's because it's not Star wars or Star Trek that they shouldn't do an advanced alien species.

grave ferry
#

The whole appeal with Lovecraft is the aliens are unknowable horrors and the gods don’t give a damn about the humans. At the Mountains of Madness talks about the history of the different alien species but the whole horror of that revelation was that a random New Englander (?) was reading about it in an ice cave in Antarctica. I think Starfield captured that fear of the unknown fairly well but didn’t milk it IMO.

rigid kiln
daring lake
#

Perhaps we should have a #starfield-metaphysical channel for such discussion 😉

rigid kiln
#

it is a fact

#

it's blasphemy against the great serpent, and only the great serpent is ethernal

grave ferry
#

Just heard an NPC say “Ron Hope is the Henry Ford of our generation” which makes me think people are definitely still gonna view people like Elon Musk and Kanye favorably in 300 years despite their personal views that are quite well known today. Henry Ford was a raging anti-semite btw

jaunty ginkgo
#

Like Vladimir said, "The brain's long con... forgetfulness" except here it's collective

faint cave
#

I too hope we don't get other intelligent aliens in later updates. Let humans be the only sentient race in the universe. At most, maybe we'll get intelligent aliens because they became Starborn.

#

Imagine Starborn terrormorphs

rigid kiln
#

I thought a lot of animals were sentient?

grave ferry
#

Instead of diving straight into Mass Effect aliens, they should have an entire questline exploring the theme of “what is sentience?”. It could add new ranks to skills like xenosociology so we can communicate with animals on higher levels.

rigid kiln
#

Let's first figure out how to communicate with humans

grave ferry
#

They could possibly expand on the internal neuroamp and give us the ability to mind read.

daring lake
#

The info for that may well be locked away in the Armistice Archives.

slate valley
quiet sandal
#

Anyone else feel Earth is underused?

#

It’s weird how there’s only a few notable landmarks left standing and no other ruins around them

#

You’d think there’d be much more desolate remains of buildings around other than just an empty desert. Imagine if the Empire State area had a few more New York icons around it like the Statue of Liberty (as a Planet of the Apes reference), the Chrysler Building, the Brooklyn Bridge

#

Also just no life on it whatsoever, settlers have colonized many planets without atmosphere before, what’s stopping some from living in the birthplace of humanity?

rigid kiln
#

Idk this planet suck I would never be here if I had the choice

sour jacinth
#

While I don’t really disagree with you I feel like this is really a creative decision meant to discourage you from going there.

I feel like that was the developers subtle way of saying “we know you want earth, and it’s part of the lore, so we’ll give it to you, but we’re going to give you very little reason to actually go there.

rigid kiln
#

I mean nobody is stopping you from colonizing it yourself

safe kite
# sour jacinth While I don’t really disagree with you I feel like this is really a creative dec...

More a dev resources issue than a lore issue.

If they make custom assets for the ruins of New York, they'll have to do that for the rest of the major cities. There are lots of those. Bespoke landmarks here and there and desert everywhere else was the compromise - give the player little things to find without dedicating too much in the way of dev effort - which would have to be pulled from other aspects of the game.

Ultimately, the story is about post-Earth humanity, so not spending a ton of time there makes sense, both story and development wise.

sand spruce
#

Even in-universe books and dialogue say it's weird that a lone building or two is standing in a dustbowl here and there.

daring lake
#

Which books?

sand spruce
#

New Homestead has the one of Hong Kong which is a journal. It basically says it was weird to see the building survive in its state, all alone, with nothing else

daring lake
#

Ah, you mean Maurice Lyon's Journal. He does not say it is weird though.
"And there amidst the unrecognizable sands was something. What was this edifice?
This monument of a now-dead civilization? It was humbling... and deeply depressing."

sand spruce
#

Might be mixing it with another. But I know it's mentioned in the game somewhere that it is an odd thing to see.

sour jacinth
peak halo
#

They could NOT reuse FO textures and assets for earth. The styles are conflicting. It would be like putting Starfield stuff in Skyrim. Total clash of themes and ideas. Though TBH, I'm not sure what the explanation for the lack of buildings. Even with massive wind storms as the atmosphere got ripped away: in space, nothing decays. Without an atmosphere, the buildings would remain in place until the unrelenting beat of the sun bleached the color out of them.

#

(IRL, the moon looks like the French landed there.)

fierce creek
#

Earthquakes?

high copper
#

There kinda are earthquakes, I think those come from certain natural poi's or biomes, not sure, the sound is more like a boom sound though, so I am assuming it is meant to be some sort of earthquakes

safe kite
# fierce creek Earthquakes?

An excellent point.

Since the early grav drives messed with the Earth's core, thus removing its ability to generate a magnetic field, would that also kill volcanism?

peak halo
#

Depends on what happened to the core. If the magnetic field was just disrupted, then no, volcanism would not be changed, however, if it screwed with the core enough to solidify it (which would also kill the magnetic field), then yes, volcanism (and tectonic plate movement) would cease, as both require the liquid mantle to happen, and that is supported by the much hotter molten core

daring lake
#

There would have been geological chaos as both the core and molten magma
slowed and ground to a halt. All that pressure and energy which is currently
released through tectonic movement would suddenly have no place to go.
Massive volcanic events would tear the mantle and crust apart.
At least that's how I see it.

peak halo
#

True, but I doubt it would have been enough to turn the planet into a desert planet.

quiet sandal
#

Did you know the Chrysler Building is copyrighted? It wasn’t in Spider-Man because of it.

grave ferry
#

Man, they really dropped the ball by making cats and dogs extinct in the lore. Our historic pets surviving 300 years after the fall of Earth makes about as much sense as Earth’s accents and cultures surviving tbh. They should rectify this lore mistake with a cloning DLC.

rigid kiln
#

Why would accents not exist

peak halo
#

If anything, there would be new accents, not just the old ones from earth

torn zodiac
#

it would depend a fair bit on how isolated the populations actually are

rigid kiln
#

accents and cultures not surviving is such a weird thing to me

#

why would people not want to conserve their ancestory, it is their choices that made you exist, the least you can do is conserve it

torn zodiac
peak halo
#

Accents and culture would survive, maybe it would adapt with the times, but most of it would survive, as most colony ships would likely have a homogeneous payload

rigid kiln
#

and then like the least stereotypical variant so there are no accents and that makes 0 sense to me

torn zodiac
#

frankly, considering the small population that made it off Earth (comparatively), I wouldn't be surprised if what they're actually speaking is some pidgin mix of whatever languages people evac'd with

#

And probably the the folks on the ECS shouldn't have been so easily understandable

#

a lot can change in a language in 200 years

wind yoke
#

I may have missed an explanation during that quest, but wouldn't the ECS have a constant comm line with Earth the whole time and therefore never varied in any speech patterns? Not to mention the huge media library they would have packed with them. Just a thought.

safe kite
safe kite
grave ferry
#

Wouldnt a cloning dlc be cool as hell tho

rigid kiln
#

there already is cloning

daring lake
#

I'd just like them to get on with the story.

grave ferry
# rigid kiln there already is cloning

I meant they should expand on the Crucible questline—get on with its story, so to speak. Let us create our own clones, including canines, in a narrative with potential to reach Jurassic Bark levels of emotion.

#

The fact cloning is already in the lore is their excuse to make a cloning dlc in the first place. Same for mechs 🤞

rigid kiln
#

I don't need no clingy stinky fluffie beasts on my planet

daring lake
#

It might be more in line with the environment that the player moves around in to
have xeno-pets. Like Grumble for instance. In which case, at least one mod out
there has 'Morphs as pets.

grave ferry
#

Ah yes i love grumble

#

Such a tease for a xenopets feature

rigid kiln
#

hope there are more theocracies somewhere in space

grave ferry
sage pewter
#

Probably a dumb question, but is there anything that lays out the differences between the Va'ruun houses? I've played Shattered space a couple times and the main story too many times to count. Lately I've been playing as Va'ruun, but have so far avoided wearing/displaying anything that reps a specific house because I just don't know enough about them.
I know it's a weird thing to be dwelling on, but I had the same debate between UC and Freestar.Ghoul 😬 VaultBoySunglasses

rigid kiln
# sage pewter Probably a dumb question, but is there anything that lays out the differences be...

House Dul'kehf House_Dulkehf
This Minor noble house primarily oversees the Ministry of Commerce as an economic power. It prefers to remain in the background, Avoiding high-stakes politics and feuds.

House Ka'dic House_Kadic
Associated with the Ministry of Conjunction, presents a centrist image during inter-house disputes while strategically positioning itself for future opportunities.

House Veth'aal House_Vethaal
Has consistently sided with House Va'ruun Leadership, unwavering in their belief in Jinan Va'ruun and the return of the Great Serpent, it has kept the ruling house of Va'ruun itself in power through the centuries. Known for their loyalty, some members are seen as fanatics.

House Ma'leen House_Maleen
House Ma'leen was once a minor faction within House Va'ruun. In 2270, Jarek's twin brother, Jandar Va'ruun, openly opposed the isolationist policies of House Va'ruun, which escalated tensions between the two houses. By 2274, House Ma'leen officially cut its connections with House Va'ruun, leading to the emergence of the Va'ruun Zealots, who perpetuated a climate of fear throughout the Settled Systems.

sage pewter
#

Thanks.

jaunty ginkgo
#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1344428721230188584/20250226225640_1.jpg?ex=67c0e051&is=67bf8ed1&hm=4f6f5cf59fb72e33ac0d97c4674750c944a5266b56ab42c224473a931aaa556f& The interaction between a Corporate Representative and the Ship Services Technician in Akila supports Lin's comment about the Collective not being so ridden with bureaucracy, at least compared to UC

At first I thought the Technician's comment about asking if the requested invoice can simply be done in a notepad was merely a sort of given practice and didn't think much of it. I didn't connect the dots until I spoke with the Representative herself

Judging by her comment, this one specific Corporate likes the lack of bureaucracy. Is the sentiment widespread? I don't remember if Laredo has expressed an opinion on it, but since the CEO is practicing the day-to-day operations herself I'd say if there's any sort of being laden in bureaucracy it's her own self being the "bureaucracy" whatever that's worth, or more of a chokepoint in the process

Are corporations beholden to their "founding" factions (if the term applies) in the sense of say, tax? I don't think there's any named corp in the game that has office presence cross-faction, so does that means the business is mostly export? Would a UC/Jemison-based corporation be interested establishing a manufacturing presence in the Collective due to the lack of government red tape?

#

Unrelated. Arguably whoever controls Jemison controls the UC, but is that also the case with Akila and the Collective?

jaunty ginkgo
# jaunty ginkgo Unrelated. Arguably whoever controls Jemison controls the UC, but is that also t...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1344439374518943754/20250226233627_1.jpg?ex=67c0ea3d&is=67bf98bd&hm=019d612c37e29ca390e100d8fd1b0fb499d9f15395848e3e3880250a742a084f& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1344438797307351132/20250226233727_1.jpg?ex=67c0e9b3&is=67bf9833&hm=b6e3ecba3d639ae6fbe8d028f737daf17c594478505fcd2bd6db65cff555c878& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1344439484392935476/20250226233712_1.jpg?ex=67c0ea57&is=67bf98d7&hm=6f9e0085aee98c84ab4a93be92b2543f4c986d495f4ff725e5dfc3f88e2b66ee& hm, maybe not

Surprisingly nice for a guy with a temper, though. He's angry but not lashing out, if that makes sense

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1344439976057901078/20250226233631_1.jpg?ex=67c0eacc&is=67bf994c&hm=737f3b6856c217d6bef183f9fccb66d908063ff419f8663621a1bac0ed81acd9& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1344439820327587991/20250226233813_1.jpg?ex=67c0eaa7&is=67bf9927&hm=b14966959d2a083ecfc57224620f0a97430f019fbeef9df93747449f3d61c7a8& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1344439999008997468/20250226233913_1.jpg?ex=67c0ead2&is=67bf9952&hm=3fc9d65a0988e111645d5b87614d61b595dfbc33be4885320188c37fbfeb2821& huehuehue

daring lake
#

Leah Casler has lots to say about that when you deliver the charter to her.
I can't remember the exact words, but "limited government and inalienable rights"
is a term she uses about the forming of the FC iirc

jaunty ginkgo
grave ferry
#

Since the movie apparently uses archival footage, I’m assuming that’s just how the Va’ruun looked during the time of the Serpent’s Crusade

daring lake
#

Or is it? 🙂
A promotional poster may not be a reliable source of info imo

grave ferry
#

If “Inside the Viper’s Nest” is a historical documentary, I’d imagine the poster imagery would match the footage used in the film. Would’ve been weird if They Shall Not Grow Old randomly had steampunk soldiers on its poster 😂

#

I’d believe it tbh, the suits on the poster look like 90 year old versions of the Va’ruun suits in the DLC to me

daring lake
#

Its a film.

grave ferry
#

It doesn’t have actor names on it so I’m not so sure, I think I saw an in-game poster with actor names on it. I also don’t recall many movies with an “archival footage” warning attached.

daring lake
#

It actually says that it is a film on the poster

grave ferry
#

Documentaries are films

#

Even if it was a blockbuster, movies like Saving Private Ryan still depict the enemy accurately, at least aesthetically, not so much as “caricatures”. Lol, sorry to go back and forth on this. Also, something something Godwin’s law

#

Now you got me googling “movies that use archival footage” 😂

keen acorn
#

They even have cataclysm movies that use actual news footage in them (or spoofs). To give a realistic feel to the movies.

#

The Serpents Crusade would have been a frightening period in history - for them. So market on that. LOL

jaunty ginkgo
#

Is there a specific month/day date for the Treaty of Narion signing?

daring lake
#

Not that I've been able to find. Info in the Vanguard Hall just mention the year. 2216.

keen acorn
jaunty ginkgo
analog junco
#

We need a Traveller RP channel

west yoke
#

Ok so just who tf are the Creators

#

lol

high copper
#

Godd

west yoke
#

Whose mighty name is Howw’ard

silk lotus
#

I wonder if there is a truly infinite number of universes existing simultaneously, or if some have to end/be unmade for new ones to exist. Infinite existence vs infinite variability.

frank island
#

Superimposed Alternate Variant Existences (SAVE)

fierce creek
#

Idk how traveller works that may be normal

jaunty ginkgo
#

it's 2197 to 2219

analog junco
# silk lotus I wonder if there is a truly infinite number of universes existing simultaneousl...

I mean, if you take the Unity as a take on NG+ at face value the Universe is "mechanically" reset by wiping everything but the context that you are from another Universe. Your save is literally cleaned. We can't necessarily read game mechanics or hardware for that matter, into lore. It wouldn't make sense to save all that data you can't go back to without bloating a save. Even if the Unity is a commentary on video game characters and their lives and how they exist in their "Universe". When they talked about a similar experience in CHIM, the dreamer is like a player or modder and enters a solipsistic like state in which they bend reality. If stepping through the Unity is like CHIM, then the previous Universe may be able to be seen as destroyed. Hopefully they never fully explain it.

analog junco
#

This is classic Traveller, so death in character creation is possible

#

Making a character with 1 term is also a little ridiculous as well. As the rules state a character with no training is not fit for space travel, but then you make a single term character and they're slightly more fit. Kind of like sending an average Boyscout out into space.

faint cave
silk lotus
#

I mean we do commit a act of piracy to get one artifact

jaunty ginkgo
#

Va'ruun language when https://youtu.be/U4KpYy3Bs6E?t=34

YouTube
Bethesda Softworks
Starfield: Shattered Space - Official Launch Trailer

Starfield’s first major expansion, Shattered Space, is available to play now. Travel to the home world of House Va’ruun for the first time, explore the handcrafted new location and uncover the mysteries surrounding the followers of the Great Serpent.

Play now: https://beth.games/3YUCzx8

Official Site – http://starfieldgame.com/
Discord – ht...

▶ Play video
daring lake
#

Spacer language when? would be be more interesting imo 🙂

silk lotus
#

Maybe it's just me but I feel like they could do more with the character of keeper aquelius. Possibly the strongest starborn in the game, yet very little is done with him. Makes me wonder if they will build him up latter in the games development.

safe kite
grave ferry
#

Here’s my rough headcanon for why the Unity reverts us back to right before we grav jump to Jemison to join Constellation:
It’s because grav jumping is what initially “locks” our character’s soul into the multiverse, basically setting its spawn point.

frank island
#

Personally, I think it's Groundhog Day

daring lake
#

We don't have the ability (yet) to choose where/when we want to go to.
The Unity has just one single reference point for us. And that is the time
and location of the 1st grav jump we made after obtaining the artifact.

sand spruce
#

Which raises a lot of questions about how Unity functions, given the apparent origins of gravdrive tech.

#

Such as, in theory, an alternate version of the inventor who got an artifact far earlier bestowing knowledge upon an alternate self who got to Mars much later.

#

Does one start point override the other? Do both happen?

stuck crystal
novel sparrow
rigid kiln
daring lake
sand spruce
#

Oh, I agree.

grave ferry
#

What do you guys think about a massive time jump? What if the Ecliptic turned into a theocracy in Starfield 2? They could be a Mandalorian “guns are my religion” type faction. Then the Crimson Fleet could be an Empire-like faction… i honestly just want a star wars RPG.

safe kite
#

BGS is a fan of time jumps between sequels, so we will probably see something like that, if a Starfield 2 ever exists down the line.

On Ecliptic becoming spiritual? shrug

#

Va'ruun's got the religious weirdo angle covered and probably will for the duration of the IP.

pastel flicker
#

There's an elderly lady in the residential district who asks you to deliver a letter to her friend in Cydonia. Does anybody else think it is odd that she's basically preparing to die at 85 given the medical tech available to the UC? I mean, the Constellation members all look about 10-20 years younger than they apparently are. Sarah fought in the Colony War as an officer and Vladimir retired from the Crimson Fleet after one presumes a moderately long career as a pirate. I could see somebody living in the Well having a shorter lifespan, but that letter quest stands out in my mind as not quite fitting in with the rest of the lore?

safe kite
#

Just because they have the technology doesn't mean everyone in the UC gets the technology.

west yoke
grave ferry
grave ferry
plush kettle
#

Hello, I have yet to play starfield but am planning on it. What is the general view on cybernetic implants for non-lethal conditions? Like body upgrades, not things like prosthetics.
Also, what year is it

analog junco
#

Good question, I wish there was an in game calendar for me to check

grave ferry
plush kettle
#

2330 is a perfect time actually wow. 300 years of theoretical technical achievements at the rate it is going currently is a long time! Humans could discover faster than light travel, time dilation technology, gravity manipulation, and possibly even perfected cloning. But I bet perpetual motion machines still won't work LMAO

#

Alright so this is great information,and it is telling me that as a society, technical upgrades to the human body are neither frowned upon, nor enforced. More of a personal choice thing

unreal sonnet
#

Major cosmetic surgery is a walk-in service, so yeah, take that as you will.

grave ferry
plush kettle
#

not sure if im the only one here but i wouldnt mind rocket feet and hand lasers irl

#

i could be a street preformer and make like, fireworks for some extra pizza money on the side.

grave ferry
#

I couldn’t be trusted with Iron Man rocket boots and repulsors. I wouldn’t go on a rampage or anything, I just feel like I would accidentally kill someone’s bird by flicking my wrist the wrong way. Jetpacks in general seem pretty dangerous and chaotic, I would want anti-gravity tech before jetpacks fs

plush kettle
#

well deng if i really could choose anything (cybernetic or just gear) i would rather just want a badass pair of gloves.
If they can create barriers and alter gravity im set too, i feel its less strain on the body to fall upward rather than to propell yourself against gravity.
oh also the gloves can shoot fireballs

safe kite
# grave ferry In-game posters reveal there are people walking around with prosthetics but you ...

This is debatable, as the posters themselves show visible, mechanical prosthetics when advertising them.

It's implied in the lore that mechanical replacement limbs are available, but are not seen functional in the game. I think this is more of a development oversight/dev resource issue than a lore issue. Nowhere does it suggest that mechanical replacements are synth-level other than Enhance existing (which is relegated solely to cosmetic surgery) and mechanical limbs not being seen on NPCs in the game (which is likely due to them not being added to the game for whatever reason).

grave ferry
keen acorn
plush kettle
keen acorn
stuck crystal
maiden salmon
vagrant root
#

How do you think the Enhance pods work exactly?

grave ferry
# vagrant root How do you think the Enhance pods work exactly?

I think it’s gene editing, like cloning but for specific parts of one’s body (of course, the Enhance tech is only cloning-adjacent and ||not quite the same cloning tech we see in the Vanguard or Crucible quests||) That’s how it’s so seamless.

unreal sonnet
#

Feels like there has to be some degree of molecular reconstruction going on, possibly with gene editing for future maintenance.

Wild speculation, but it could be based on teleportation tech that never accomplished it's actual goal.

Or it could be something simpler like the reconstruction gel in The Expanse or the flesh printer in Starship Troopers.

west yoke
daring lake
#

How about it being regular (albeit advanced) surgery. Like Starfield.
We have lots of chems and advanced medical abilities. And that should include
stable genetic manipulation methods.
"Printing" flesh is not too far away irl btw. We already have lab grown meat being
sold at this time.

west yoke
#

The more I think about it, the more I think the Starborn have been secretly involved in all the events of the game behind the scenes

#

Like, I’m wondering if they were starborn present at the founding of the UC, the establishment of Akila, etc

#

I think this series goes a lot deeper than what we’ve initially seen

wind yoke
grave ferry
#

I really hope the Pilgrim’s notes hint at eventual Starborn time travel so I can take my timelord rp to the next level. Imagine, the ability to replay missions in a time loop and compete with other Starborn, a cosmic sport. Red Mile for gods

daring lake
#

This game does go a lot deeper than we have seen for sure. Plenty of
pointers towards that. As to the Starborn being secretly involved, well
I think that gets a bit conmplicated. There is part of the Hunter's dialogue
where he talks about his time on Earth. But the Starborn are not a seperate
civilization. They are us.
For myself, and my "Machine Theory", I think it is possble that the Unity is
taking certain actions to ensure that it gets created.
My hope is that we will eventually be able to choose which timeframe we
travel to.

silk lotus
#

Im still wondering if there is a prime/original universe. If so what does that make our universes? Outliers? Variants?

daring lake
#

I'm not sure if prime or original would be the right term. But, Proxima has
to be somewhere. Infinite variant Uni's co-existing simultaneously 🙂

keen acorn
#

Theoretically - it is possible if circumstances are right - you can move from this Planet to another similar Planet - not knowing immediately you are someplace else.

#

We talk of time travelling. But there could actually be quantum travelling. Time travelling is usually forward in time - whereas Quantum travelling can be any point anywhere at anytime.

west yoke
#

The Starborn basically say you’ve never made it this far which is why either the Hunter or emissary is willing to give you the Artifact, otherwise they’d just blow you to smithereens

lapis pelican
#

Does anyone know if there is a Starfield lore book of any kind. Because I would buy one.

west yoke
#

Not that I’m aware of, although I can imagine them releasing something like that in the future

daring lake
#

The problem with having a lore book at this time is simply that not all of the story has yet
been revealed.

jaunty ginkgo
#

Even if we have an Elder Scrolls-style "Pocket Guide to the Empire", my guess is the next headache would be actually implementing them. We already had kerfuffle with Mechs not being playable never mind the treaty

west yoke
#

Pocket Slate to the UC 😂

grave ferry
#

It’ll be 1-2 paragraphs with brackets at the end that read: “[The rest of the book contains rich lore that expands on Starfield in a deep and meaningful way.]”

strong charm
#

So outside being referenced is there any information on the United Colonies Army led by General Huiying Xiao?

jaunty ginkgo
#

who, what

#

Oh the one in MAST. I don't think I ever spoke to her

high copper
silk lotus
#

I'm starting to think reincarnation may be a thing in starfield. What if when a non starborn dies their soul is sent to another universe? The unity simply allows us to retain our memories and skills with a new body while sending us into a new universe?

#

If souls exist then could they follow the law of conservation of mass? The unity itself could take the soul and send it to another universe.

#

Maybe the creators learned about reincarnation and tried to create a way to retain their knowledge and powers upon death by using the unity?

#

Also creating temples for their fellow creators to find and use to gain more powers?

#

Like when we first become starborn there are likely other copies of us we never meet aside from one other starborn version of us, as well as a non starborn version.

#

But that would mean that other universes existed before the unity? Could that be a paradox?

#

Or maybe there was only one universe and upon creating the unity other universes came into existence? Possibly planned or unplanned for by the creators?

#

One universe where reincarnation was true, the creators tried to control it to keep their knowledge, skills and power upon death. However something went right or wrong and the creation of the unity created other universes?

daring lake
silk lotus
daring lake
#

Yes. We can be sure.

silk lotus
#

Even the wiki states that the unity was created by the creators? If multiple universes already existed then there would have to be a center?

#

Which the unity is.

peak halo
#

Maybe the creators created an access to the Unity.

#

Which is what the Armillary is

daring lake
#

Well, center may not be the right term. Multiverse theory is an actual irl thing in astrophysics.
It is not something made up by BGS in order to make the game 🙂 But they have used the premise
of the existence of the multiverse.
The Unity is the result of the creation of a connection point. One that is programmed to do what it
does. It is a machine, or construct if you prefer, that has various distributed parts. Temples, artifacts
and possibly grav drives as well. All part of the same mechanism.
It gets a bit mind bending because we exist, and perceive our surroundings, in a linear spacetime.
That linear timeline does not exist for the Unity. It can connect to all points of space and time.

silk lotus
daring lake
#

Yeah, no worries. A theory is just that. Something waiting to be proven/broken 🙂

silk lotus
#

I think the program may work better as a description imo. Not quite a simulation though

#

But again that more of a theory.

west yoke
#

Mythological Cinematic Universe

wind yoke
#

I like the agency comparisons in k0mbine's list. I didn't realize there were so many. And I also really appreciate how Bethesda gave a nod to so many sci-fi franchises. The Alien Queen and eggs, Predator's camo effect, Starfleet uniforms, BSG Jumping, Dinosaurs, even Ecliptics looking like Robocop. I'm sure there's more but the point is they pay homage and allow sci-fi space nerds like me adapt quickly.

grave ferry
#

Yep, there’s a bunch of little organizations in Starfield. What do you know about Axion Energy? Ferrolight (i think that’s the spelling, i dont play w subtitles)?
But some don’t get as much love as they should in the lore department, like Aegis. Crossing my fingers for an Aegis DLC

high copper
stuck crystal
#

Advanced Nutrition yo

grave ferry
#

Cubic Food

plush kettle
#

So should I look up a gist of the general human history before we control the main character, or is that going to ruin my first playthrough

west yoke
plush kettle
#

idk if i can word that differently tbh

#

will looking up the lore ruin the lore for me...

rapid rose
#

i mean, you are gonna know about the lore regardless

plush kettle
#

how about, is there a "general" story about Starfield and its human history that i can look up, without ruining the details

rapid rose
#

im sure the game itself can do just that if you explore and read stuff

plush kettle
#

i dont have the game yet

west yoke
#

Plus you’ll just piece together stuff as you go along

rapid rose
#

oh, well, you can look up fan wikis but by now theres plenty of lore from the game already out there

west yoke
#

Honestly though the lore for games like these go so deep that it never hurts to look more into it imo

plush kettle
#

thats perfect, will watch gameplay of the vanguards to learn and not spoil

rapid rose
#

i also think there are prob youtube lore videos for Starfield out there

grave ferry
wind yoke
peak halo
#

Don't you still get bounties?

analog junco
#

2330 AD you say? Yet no calendar lol

peak halo
#

The calendar is based off the movement of the sun and moon. To do so with every world, would require an insane amount of coordination, or dozens of seperate calendars. Having a universal time is relatively easy compared.

daring lake
#

Which is why UTC exists tbh 🙂

peak halo
#

Yeah, the UTC is a thing because having varied clocks on every world would make commerce impossible, but calenders aren't necessary. All you need is a time scale. IE, it will take 7 24 hour periods to arrive= It will take a week to arrive. The only real issue is when you use solar days on a planet, instead of the 24 hour period that UTC is based on.

#

(like in Akila, a day is 24 Akila hours, but 28 UTC hours, and New Atlantis is 48 UTC hours. (And Venus is 600 or something insane like that)

analog junco
#

I guess what I am suggesting would be a "Sol Date" based UTC Calendar that we can look at and be like "Oh its Christmas" and proceed to put up the ol' coniferous

peak halo
#

what coniferous? they all died.

#

i wonder if the seed vault is still there on earth, andif it survived.

high copper
#

does the vault have its own separate internal power source?

analog junco
#

Coniferous just refers to having cones, there are certainly some trees like that in the galaxy

high copper
grave ferry
#

The Coe family is originally from San Francisco, right? I could’ve sworn I read/heard that somewhere in the game.

daring lake
#

Sebastien Coe was from Wyoming afaik.

novel sparrow
#

San Francisco isn't mentioned in Starfield at all.
Wyoming is
"He was an astrophysicist who lived on Earth in a place called Wyoming. Solomon was born around the time people first started living in space."

grave ferry
#

Interesting, i wonder where I got that from then.

wind yoke
#

Starfleet headquarters is in San Francisco...

peak halo
#

Star fleet? This isn't star trek

ashen seal
#

They dress like they work at Home Depot.

west yoke
#

The more I think about it, the more I feel like the FC is just a way for Neon to fleece Akila

#

From Akila’s perspective, what do they get from Neon being part of their government? Neither Akila or Neon really produce anything the other needs. The only thing Neon could give Akila is financial capital, but while money is nice Akila doesn’t really have the sort of heavy industries that need lots of investing to begin with

#

So in the end Akila ends up providing soldiers, ships etc to defend Neon, all so that… some of them can go and get high in the Astral Lounge? Not really a deal worth taking imo

#

But now look at it from Neon’s perspective - you convince this start up nation to join forces with you, you tell them the capital will be in their city, you let them design the flag, hell you even let them have some of their rangers sniff about your city to give the sense that they have sway over you - and what do you get in return? The second most powerful military in the settled systems that can be used to defend your (less than reputable) corporate interests, as well as presumably your vast trade networks for your “illegal” drug

jaunty ginkgo
#

Wasn't the cooperation initiated by Coe?

By official account anyway of course, who knows what happened behind the scene

daring lake
#

Well, apart from aurora and the "personal" services provided by the "pleasure city", Neon
is a major food producer. And Akila, with its "intelliwheat", is a breadbasket for the settled systems.
We don't see the true extent and scale of the smaller settlements probably because of limitations
of the game. And we don't see the smaller details, such as trade between the members of the FC.
Neon is the only place where Aurora is legal, so there will be no "vast trade network" beyond the
smuggling activities of the Syndicate. Which will be sizeable no doubt, but not requiring protection
from outside military forces.
Each territory of the FC has control over its own security forces, and its own laws.
The Rangers came into being some time after the formation of the Collective, given jurisdiction
across Freestar space by the Council of Governors. They are not controlled, or operated, by a sole
member of the Collective, but answer to the Council alone.

rigid kiln
#

Lot of yapping for a heathen

grave ferry
ashen seal
grave ferry
#

Yeah, the cowboy hat should’ve been the official Ranger hat

jaunty ginkgo
west yoke
#

Idk why no one has asked this before but why exactly did the Creators make the Temples / Armillary?

#

Whoever these Creators are, for some reason they decided to build a bunch of structures that gave sentient beings god-like powers, as well as create a device that would allow beings to access the Unity and jump between universes

#

Also they made the Unity itself

#

Why are the Temples located where they are? Did they know humanity would one day access all of them?

#

Were they planning on people becoming Starborn?

#

What if the the Temples / Unity are ||their way of training an army of universe-hopping supersoldiers to combat some multi-dimensional threat lol||

daring lake
#

All those questions are central to the game imo 🙂
Some folk are expecting some kind of Starborn civilization to show up at some time.
Although that seems very unlikely.
Others (myself included) think that the Creators are human, and that they created the Unity
and programmed it to do what it does.
"Did they know humanity would one day access all of them?" If the Creators are Human then the answer
is yes. Otherwise they would not have been able to do what they did.
Having access to all points of space and time means being able to know everything from past, present
and future.

novel sparrow
#

Creators being human is basically Interstellar plot

peak halo
#

the Creator was some random dude who no-clipped into the unity, and used his new powers to craft the artifacts and temples

rigid kiln
#

The only creator is the Great Serpent

peak halo
#

The great serpent no-clipper into the unity, and then made themselves the great serpent

rapid rose
#

i wouldnt be surprised if the creators are just advance futuristic humans

daring lake
# novel sparrow Creators being human is basically Interstellar plot

Very few (if any) "plots" are truly original.
In this game we have a position from which all points of space and time can
be observed and accessed. I look at the available evidence given within the game.
And that seems to lead towards the "Creators" being us. But I also think that there
may be a twist. That twist would be the Unity, which once created, wanted to ensure
that it would always be created in whichever universe existed.
So .... interactions with Victor Aiza and Jinan Va'ruun became essential.

high copper
daring lake
#

No U

rigid kiln
#

Only the Great Serpent

crystal zealot
#

Tomato. The Great euphemism seems like a metaphor for proposed cyclic contraction and expansion. I wonder if it's intended to be another interpretation of the Unity or something outside of that.

safe kite
crystal zealot
#

sometimes I catch myself thinking its not explained AT ALL because whatever explanation would be synonymous with knowing the answer to our own reality. Like it's probably a lot better as a mystery? They play with theology a lot and having a right answer seems counter to the story they are telling.

grave ferry
#

Any lore on specific Va’ruun words and their meanings? I assume the “kai” in Va’ruun’kai could mean anything from “home” to “world” to “capital”. I wonder what Dazra’s named after

bronze steeple
#

Please no dodging the word filter.

rigid kiln
bronze steeple
rigid kiln
#

today I learned a new word

rigid kiln
#

that good? 😭

bronze steeple
#

That works!

rigid kiln
#

srry

bronze steeple
#

All good!

grave ferry
#

Cant believe i missed the varuun word for p**p in my thousand hours of playtime

west yoke
#

So thinking about the different factions a bit more, and while I have nothing in-game to base this off, I get the feeling the UC seriously outnumbers the rest of the factions, possibly even combined

#

Like, it wouldn’t surprise me if the UC made up ~60% of the population of the settled systems, the FC ~20%, House Varuun ~10% and then the rest just random planets / crimson fleet / LIST etc

#

That would explain why they haven’t felt the need to expand despite essentially being a military republic; they have no dire strategic need to when they just outnumber all the others by a wide margin

rigid kiln
#

Yet they will fall

analog junco
#

I don't know, they sort of have that "main character energy" to them.

rigid kiln
#

I'll make sure of it

analog junco
#

In everyone elses game?

rigid kiln
#

yes, biggest cross game virus

#

or cure really

umbral grove
umbral grove
high copper
#

They are still a whiles away for fully repopulating their current planets

native sail
#

How did the settled systems fail to find Dazra? They failed to see the star through a telescope?

high copper
#

Va'ruun did have agents erase any evidence of Dazra in MAST

native sail
#

What about any of the random 10,000 travelers with their own ships.

high copper
#

I would assume they'd need a location in order to properly travel to the system, the CF and spacers that did show up on Dazra didn't show up on their own accord

native sail
#

A location? The star. You can see it with your own two eyes. We could probably see the system in real life at this very moment. Kind of hard to hide a star.

daring lake
#

True. But you would need the co-ordinates to travel there with any level of accuracy I guess.
The in-game explanation is that Va'ruun agents have installed virus like programs that
wipe any reference to its position, so it never makes it on to any navigation maps.
The crashed ship POI in the Dazra "cell" has a slate detailing the surprise of the ship
captain to find a system that is not on the Nav map.

native sail
#

So he was confused that there was a star there despite the fact that he can see the star?

daring lake
#

No, that is not what I am saying. He was surprised that there was a star that was not
on the nav map. That is not the same as being confused 🙂

native sail
#

Its like convincing the rest of the world that New Zealand doesn't exist for 150 years. It doesn't make too much sense.

high copper
#

depends if New Zealand was a well known and travelled to place
there are surprisingly several more star systems in the galaxy that we can't use, the ones we currently can go to (to put game mechanics to) are the ones that have travel data
any of the more distant ones, could be removed from the nav data, and yea obviosuly it'll still be the there but the grav drive of course requires data to be able to travel towards

native sail
#

So there is just a random close star that nobody has any data on for some reason?

high copper
#

because it was removed

native sail
#

Well no, you can see it with your own two eyes/with a telescope. People have to know its there. There is a star that is closeby that nobody has any data on.

worn socket
#

Are there any Black holes near Starfield star map?

native sail
#

No.

worn socket
#

I guess thats a good thing. Woulnt want a BH so close to the settlements

high copper
#

I think even in our rl system the closest black hole is quite far

worn socket
#

I think a neutron is close tho

native sail
#

When asked if there were any black holes, Todd Howard said "No comment". I predict one will exist for the next DLC.

crystal zealot
#

The Unity sure feels blackhole adjacent

slate valley
#

Closest known black hole to us is 1560 light years away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearest_known_black_holes#:~:text=The nearest known black hole is Gaia BH1%2C,in the direction of the constellation Ophiuchus. [3]

List of nearest known black holes

This is a list of known black holes that are close to the Solar System.
It is thought that most black holes are solitary, but black holes in binary or larger systems are much easier to detect. Solitary black holes can generally only be detected by measuring their gravitational distortion of the light from more distant objects. As of February 202...

slate valley
# worn socket I think a neutron is close tho

Closest discovered so far is around 400 light years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RX_J1856.5−3754#:~:text=RX J1856.5−3754 (also called RX J185635−3754%2C RX J185635−375%2C,is the closest neutron star discovered to date.

RX J1856.5−3754

RX J1856.5−3754 (also called RX J185635−3754, RX J185635−375, and various other designations) is a neutron star in the constellation Corona Australis. At approximately 400 light-years from Earth, it is the closest neutron star discovered to date.

peak halo
faint cave
daring lake
faint cave
#

Yes. I was just speculating that they would also personally go to whoever was trying to input the data. You know, just to make sure even people who jotted down the star's info on a piece of paper still won't reveal its location.

analog junco
#

Va'ruun mind virus

west yoke
#

Before SS came out I assumed Varuun’kai was in some far-flung corner of the galaxy

#

Which would explain why most people didn’t know where it was

#

Idk how they keep it a secret in the middle of the settled systems lol

rigid kiln
#

Well the settled systems is around 50ly from sol so it's out there in the frontier/deep space

#

And they explain why it's hidden so well

crystal zealot
#

Varuun'kai is a blind jump out a very very long way. Information on its whereabouts is actively scrubbed by agents within the major factions.

#

You don't want to blind jump into deep space without reference for your location as you essentially can no longer grav jump accurately.

high copper
#

I guess using a flat image may not be the best

crystal zealot
#

Archimedes has a few science installations as it is on the very farthest range of current human exploration and has lots of planets that support life.

rigid kiln
#

Yea the settled systems are roughly 50 ly from sol and most stars to the east are almost three times that distance

crystal zealot
#

Otherwise its mostly outlaws

high copper
#

like what are there no star systems to the left of us on the map?

#

there are just not in game

#

relatively speaking you could pretty much go much much farther than the locations in game, but a game has to stop at some point

crystal zealot
#

I was wondering if there are simply not enough systems within the 30light year range to jump out of the current neighborhood as it were.

#

As its expressed as being the current limit of the tech

rigid kiln
#

I think it's just bc they didn't want 86686578568655755 systems

crystal zealot
#

fair

west yoke
#

kinda hope they find a way to let us jump into deep space for whatever reason

wind yoke
spiral stirrup
#

Sarah really is terrible. Saving Sona, brining her to the lodge, then abandoning her again by going through the Unity.

faint cave
#

What would happen if we grav jump into a black hole?

high copper
#

die

jaunty ginkgo
#

couldn't be worse than whatever's producing the vortex horrors right

rapid rose
#

no no, you become spaget!
... then you die become one with the black hole

orchid finch
#

meh fear hitting a white hole more than a black hole.

#

In general relativity, a white hole is a hypothetical region of spacetime and singularity that cannot be entered from the outside, although energy, matter, light and information can escape from it. In this sense, it is the reverse of a black hole, from which energy, matter, light and information cannot escape.

west yoke
#

Well basically ||I think that all the major settlements / factions are connected to the Artifacts / Starborn in some way. There’s a giant statue that looks remarkably like an Artifact in New Atlantis that all your companions will remark on about being “calming but strange”. There’s the Artifact just outside Akila City that Solomon Coe was vaguely aware that it existed. There’s also another Artifact-like state in Akila in midtown somewhere that could hint to the city being deliberately founded there.||

#

Basically, depending on which direction Bethesda takes the series, I feel like ||it’ll be revealed that the Starborn / Temples / Artifacts and even the founding of the settled systems have all been more tied in with each other than we it initially seems, given how all the events of the game tie into each other and what we know about the universe||

#

There’s also the fact that the reason Victor Aiza built the Artifacts to begin with was because he was visited by a (presumably) Starborn version of himself, meaning this Starborn version may have had reasons for doing so that we just don’t know yet

#

Aiza’s last words in his final message even talk about everyone’s forgotten the original origin of the grav drives, that being the Artifact they found on Mars, which suggests to me that the writers were hinting at the deeper mystery of the game being to do with what they are and what purpose they serve, beyond just giving access to the Unity