#starfield-lore

1 messages · Page 12 of 1

clever acorn
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Was gonna say pretty sure there is communication between systems.

silk lotus
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I mean hea no action hero but a cool down to earth guy, also kinda of famous. No more spoilers

mint fox
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so Vlad mentions signals would take years (presumably light years) to reach you which is why you need to visit him. iirc Barrett also mentions it when you rescue him in one of the recordings that when you’re out of the system communication bandwidth goes to zero

Barrett: Out of range of the sensor array on Vectera. Would you keep up? Once we're outside the star system, the bandwidth goes from instant speed to effectively never.

rigid kiln
clever acorn
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Hmm good point. Maybe there is a coded signal you carry with you put in place by gal bank that locks you out of your money until it syncs locally with existing accounts on arrival and it gets checked for tampering at same time. Kinda like how xbox will send out a ping of sorts to check if you tampered with your xbox etc...

rigid kiln
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There is no instant cross ly communication

manic igloo
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A Follower of the Apocalypse meme.

mint fox
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yeah i could imagine a system where all ships are obligated to “carry” information with them and dump it when they enter a system

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but for far flung systems that see no travel that will of course not work 🤔

manic igloo
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I have it on my Space Scoundrel / CF Pirate. It can be fun.

clever acorn
# mint fox but for far flung systems that see no travel that will of course not work 🤔

So you enter a far flung system, you go up to an outpost as far as that outpost goes it doesn't know how much money you have. But appon arrival their credit system reads yours and records your last buy sell data you carried with you and now they do. All sales and purchases would be loaded locally on a coded ledger only gal bank would be able to access. And credits can't be used unless you are under signed contract with gal bank. Seems like it would be something like that.

mint fox
clever acorn
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Sure something like that. If you ever wrote checks back in the day you would carry a ledger with you to keep a running tally of what you have available vs what's actually in your account back at your bank.

mint fox
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very true

clever acorn
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If its all digital and encrypted where gal bank is the only system that can access the underlying ledger you carry with you I think it would work.

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At least makes sense in my head haha

scenic loom
static sky
daring lake
dreamy halo
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I hope we'll get some more starborn lore in the dlc

scenic loom
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hmmm we might get something
since Anasko has been messing around with the Grav Drive tech

but i don think we will get much
maybe in the next story expansion, assuming the next one does involve the starborn

crystal zealot
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Mayhaps not directly tied to the Starborn. But the Serpent seems to play with creation mythos themes. Could be a phenomena related or adjacent to the unity

scenic loom
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yeah, after seeing that Anasko is messing around with grav drive tech
and this whole revelation talked about many times from House Va'ruun....

it sounds to me like the great Serpent, tho most likely not a starborn but maybe a higher entity or possibly a rogue creator, mayhaps? But theres a chance that theres a different "perspective" of the unity involved

but we shall know soon enough... come Monday potatoderp

crystal zealot
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My little thought has been that the Serpent is either a retelling of the unity, or potentially an entity that views the process of cyclical creation as a constraint or mistake. Mainly due to the AU where ||Andreja claims to have received a vision directly leading her to the artifacts and stopping constellation as the serpent considered them anathema||

scenic loom
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yeah, i cant help but think the Unity is still somehow involved

crystal zealot
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I wouldn’t doubt it. Just not necessarily the Starborn

scenic loom
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aah, the mysteries of the Unity
ever connected, ever lasting, ever endless

solemn bough
crystal zealot
solemn bough
crystal zealot
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I believe that having Ma’leen as a faction would really flesh out the currently less than expansive evil playstyle. They go well together with a space pirate/raider approach.

solemn bough
crystal zealot
glad jacinth
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Scaled Citadel, is it "alien" tech or im imaging things

rigid kiln
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Why would it be

glad jacinth
daring lake
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My understanding is that the Scaled Citadel was built by the
Va'ruun.

glad jacinth
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We see, ehh why it realease at 5pm cet not earlier

rigid kiln
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Rather have that than to wake up on 5am again like when the game released

static sky
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Never too early to end the threat of va’ruun

manic igloo
manic igloo
crystal zealot
manic igloo
# crystal zealot That has been the theory given they licensed the name recently, could be a few r...

We might find out about the creators and some of the possible Starborn factions. I think I’ll move my protagonists ||through the Unity|| at that point. There is a certain appeal to connecting with House Va’ruun as a follower of the faith ||in your original universe||. It would be interesting if it opened up some insight into why some of the Starborn pursue the path that they do. Motivations beyond what the Hunter and Emissary seek.

hard salmon
# rigid kiln There is no instant cross ly communication

Which is interesting because Sam's affinity talks mention how he's been having calls from his ex while on board your ship. So either she's been flying around really close to your ship or there's some sort of communication that works within the same solar system and apparently without much delay in the signal.

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Or I guess the other alternative is that they are essentially leaving voice mails to each other and that's what's considered a "call" these days.

hard salmon
silk lotus
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It does like like the gravity anomalies and ruins. And I think I saw some anomoloes in past gameplay bits. Maybe the va'ruun were experimenting with starborn tech? Maybe they got their hands on a starborn guardian and either reverse engineered it or made another kind of breakthrough.

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Like we also know every little of calumite that we find at gravity anomalies and also in caves with artifacts.

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Aside from using calumite in crafting.

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My theory is that calumite is more a product produced by some kind of chemical reaction, almost like rust. No a rl Dr or chemist so I could be off.

solemn bough
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(Just a theory) The political portion of Shattered Space will boil down to this: House Ma'leen and House Veth'aal want to stay closed off from accursed space (preserve the Va'ruun way of life and culture; free of outside influence) and House Dul'kefh and House Ka'dic want to open up relations. (Allow for trade and commerce and plentiful supplies, healing, etc)

The effect of Anasko's experiment will have a profound impact on how and who we'll side with.

https://x.com/BethesdaStudios/status/1840059231237448088

Bethesda Game Studios (@BethesdaStudios) on X

The people of Dazra are reeling in the wake of disaster and quickly losing trust in their leaders. Will Anasko Va'ruun be the one to lead them back to The Great Serpent? #Starfield

Twitter ·
scenic loom
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if thats how the politics are?
wouldnt there be an option for both to exist in some way... with or without some compromises

solemn bough
scenic loom
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aah, so we will be destroying half of the houses, i see i see sasihmmm

solemn bough
scenic loom
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and if they want battle?

solemn bough
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You're out of question tokens, good sir

scenic loom
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But i have Chunk tokens smugchann

daring lake
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My impression is that the Va'ruun are close to extinction and have no answer to
the disaster that has occurred. They at least need resources and help from outside
else why the distress call?
Whilst it is amusing to see the banter between Pro-Snek and Anti-Snek folk here,
I don't see any major faction conflict on the horizon. But who really knows? 🤷‍♂️
Two days before we know a bit more 🙂

rigid kiln
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You say that but the moment I join House Ma'leen were gonna purge the universe of the accursed

daring lake
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I'm just trying to keep an open mind Nieves 🙂

rigid kiln
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I know but even if they don't join I can solo new atlantis

static sky
crystal zealot
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They get really carried away, it’s half the convo

daring lake
rigid kiln
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Delulu

static sky
static sky
silk lotus
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Do we ever find out what happens to the vulture after we bring him in alive?

hoary karma
foggy bone
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I would assume, that if you convince him to come in alive, he does his time. He's in a UC prison somewhere. Probably Francois cellmate.

orchid ferry
glad jacinth
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Are there any starborn dialouge for CF story?

clever acorn
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I will single handedly force everyone faction and house to get along with every other faction and house or all will be wiped out by me. That's how I will be going into shattered space. There will be absolutely no "my side is better than your side" bs.

daring lake
# orchid ferry Machine hypothesis?

It was something I put forward here a few months ago.
The TL;DR is that The Unity, Great Serpent, Temples, Artifacts
and grav drives are all distributed parts of a single machine.
My quest is to find data points that will either support or break
this hypothesis.

orchid ferry
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Interesting at the very least!

rigid kiln
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The great serpent is the only truth

daring lake
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The Creators mentioned by Unity "You" may disagree with you Nieves 🙂
If they created and programmed the machine, then to what end?
Are they explorers? Conquerors? Have parts of the machine rebelled?
This last is the concern. A potential schism within an A.I.

rigid kiln
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that's blasmphemous talk

silk lotus
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Im thinking none of it really matters. We get powers and can choose to use them or not, as well as how.

fast radish
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so does the serpent worshiper makes you from Va'ruun'kai or not? as I am confused on how we got to grow up as serpent follower tbh

silk lotus
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It's unclear.

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But I'm pretty sure the mc isn't from va'ruun kai. Your thoughts @rigid kiln mc from va'ruun'kai or not?

high copper
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that trait just makes you knowledgable on the Va'ruun teachings, whether you want it to mean you follow it personally or just know about them is up to you I guess

fast radish
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I am starting a new game for the DLC but would not want for the MC to be already familiar with the place before I am

rigid kiln
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andreja expresses shock when she finds out we're raised with the serpent's embrace, she knows people outside of va'ruun'kai are raised with it but she didn't think someone would be in constellation

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also Mir'za says the player is promised but from what we can gather promised is someone of house va'ruun and not just a believer in the great serpent

high copper
plain radish
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Wonder how House Varunn will react to the powers of the Starborn ?

fast radish
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wait the house only has one habitable planet? as I expected them to have at least a solar system with different settlements.

fast radish
rigid kiln
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House Va'ruun would probbo rather colonize all of va'ruun'kai than claim other stars/planets/moons, seeing as we believe the great serpent let us to the moon

plain radish
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I'm still wondering how Spacers and Crimson Fleet are scattered within House Varunn territory given that it's meant to a well kept secret

fast radish
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interesting. would explain why they lack resources too. But given the crusade I expect at least some installments in space or elsewhere for them to have an army to fight both FC and UC.

rigid kiln
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I mean everyone can find it by accident 🤔

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it's just further in deep space

fast radish
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It would be nice if not this expansion the next one we get an explanation on why neither the FC nor the UC are welling to go further into the space.

plain radish
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True but wouldn't House Varunn keep their home system well defended from outsiders

fast radish
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as only the house accidently went beyond the charted space no?

high copper
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that's why their presence is the question of before or after the situation in Dazra happened

rigid kiln
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Lin and Constellation know somewhat what Va'ruun territory is, seeing as they refer to Ka'zaal as the doorstep of House Va'ruun and Andreja joining constellation after intercepting a message from Constellation to visit Va'ruun space

rigid kiln
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we arrive 2 weeks later so the pirates had two weeks to arrive

fast radish
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Yeah there is always a reference to Va'ruun territory. But I assume it is the only link to they have with the rest of the world

plain radish
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Wonder if they'll explain why the zealots have a presence in Serpentis System

rigid kiln
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meaning the whole thing happend 2 weeks before 2330/5/7

rigid kiln
fast radish
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or am I mistaken?

high copper
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just simply as Nieves says

rigid kiln
# rigid kiln bc that was supposed to be Va'ruun'kai the atmosphere name of Serpentis IV is AT...
  • Serpentis I is called Ruul
  • Serpentis II is called Ka'zaal
  • Serpentis II-a is called Ha'yaan
  • Serpentis II-b is called Na'fiis
  • Serpentis III is called N'vaar
  • Serpentis IV is called Va'ruun'kai
  • Serpentis IV-a is called Sol'jaac
  • Serpentis V is called Pavruuna
  • Serpentis V-a is called Pol'diin
  • Serpentis V-b is called Zu'zaan
  • Serpentis V-c is called V'rok
  • Serpentis V-d is called Moor'zaan
  • Serpentis VI is called Ma'zriic
  • Serpentis VI-a is called Dur'aas
  • Serpentis VI-b is called Ha'kuur
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those are the names of the Atmospheres of the planets, however Ka'zaal is Nirah III-b in the current game version

plain radish
rigid kiln
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nah it's probbo just left over code the system has a 50% chance to spawn va'ruun ships

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Zealots being around Ka'zaal would make more sense since that's refered to as Va'ruun space

rigid kiln
fast radish
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I clearly missed that. where was this discussed if you dont mind me asking?

plain radish
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So the Zealots are hostile towards their own people?

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I wonder if the high council will have questions about Andreja report or that the player is in possession of The Artifacts? Also depending how far people have gone through the story if they'll encounter hostile Starborns
With the occasional humming of a Starborn Guardian Ship landing whenever you land on a planet

rigid kiln
crystal zealot
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The Zealots divested themself of House Va’ruun due to a split in the faith. They believe themselves to be the true followers of the faith while the other Houses are misguided heretics. Setting up in the Serpentis system after their exodus really is just good branding for them. They would likely pursue reunification if the other Houses ceased to their demands but remain hostile to all other factions in the mean time.

rigid kiln
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The whole history is up-to-date with all lore we have till now

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The zealots are House Ma'leen

crystal zealot
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I did not know that the Serpentis system had such cool lore that was cut Nieves, thanks for sharing that.

crystal zealot
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The trailer has made it clear Ma’leen still has holdings in the Va’ruun’kai planet at the very least. I am not sure if they are recently returned or if they were being tolerated to some extent despite the clear hostility between houses.

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I would say they are in the same system rather than the same planet but the devs have been pretty insistent the whole story takes place planet side

rigid kiln
crystal zealot
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I would have really liked that system to retain that naming scheme to show its home to the Zealots, but I can understand why it was cut after they made plans for the DLC.

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I mean we were seeing promos for the first DLC as a bundle with the premium edition so it makes sense they made that call a while back.

rigid kiln
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Ka'zaal (current version) should have had the zealot activity

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I will in honor of the old location of va'ruun'kai use Serpentis IV as starting point for shattered space tho, since you can choose what systems the oracle spawns in

crystal zealot
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Yo what

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How is that done? I would like to do the same.

rigid kiln
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BGS said you start the dlc by going to a no encounter system , basically it spawns like a random encounter the first time you go to a random encounter non quest place

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so I will immediatly jump to Serpentis IV

high copper
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doesn't it just mean you'll get the signal or will it actually spawn in that system

rigid kiln
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I assume from how it reads, that it will jump to that system, and then will send out the signal, like how random encounters now work, a ship is there or appears and then you get the destress call

fast radish
rigid kiln
fast radish
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so those were not from the original ship?

rigid kiln
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In the year 2230, the Archimedes, which underwent significant modifications and was renamed the Mourning, returned to the Volii System, located at the heart of the Settled Systems. This mission reestablished communication with humanity and paved the way for renewed trade. House Va’ruun asserted that their primary goal was to spread the teachings of the Great Serpent.

Diplomatic ties were formed with key factions and corporations, while House Va'ruun secretly gathered intelligence, armaments, fighters, and vessels in anticipation of an impending crusade. However, the return of the Mourning was merely one aspect of this broader strategy. In secrecy, representatives from House Va'ruun forged informal connections, establishing a discreet network for transporting supplies, technology, and contraband back to the colony of Dazra.

The citizens of the United Colonies and Freestar Collective viewed House Va'ruun as an intriguing novelty, and many were drawn to their enigmatic lifestyle, leading thousands to join their ranks. Subsequently, these new members disappeared from public view, fully immersing themselves in the worship of the Great Serpent.

fast radish
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explains the perk I suppose

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whatever literature or teaching that was preached back then could have easily survived the war and.

rigid kiln
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so yes, most people in the crusade werent originally promised of House Va'ruun

fast radish
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It makes much more sense

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esp if many of those converts were people who too had loses or trama that they wanted to escape from

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and the space got that plenty for sure!

rigid kiln
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fun fact btw, all current ships we have seen so far that the zealots use are modified and repainted ships that also exist in game

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like their base ship exist

fast radish
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I assume we are getting a new solar system no?

rigid kiln
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yes, the Kavnyk system

fast radish
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very excited to see how this goes

rigid kiln
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Va'ruun'kai being Kavnyk I-b means there is at least 1 more moon (which we can see in the trailers) and the big gas giant

fast radish
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that and I hope that Todd is true to his promise with yearly expansions to add to the game. I sure know that I will keep on buying them if they are good

rigid kiln
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not sure if we have other planets/moons

fast radish
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I am suspecting a small solar system

rigid kiln
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same, hope the other moon and planet have va'ruun names tho

fast radish
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we had few of those with only 1 or 2 moon there IIRC

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so while the story will be in moon. the rest could be just set for us to explore with hopefully new POI

cobalt saffron
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If I understand it correctly though Kavnyk is outside the settled systems and more than 30 LY from the next nearest settled systems world

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Which means we cannot jump to it using a ship

rigid kiln
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problem is, the whole term settled systems is weird bc they originally said it was around 50ly from sol so serpentis being double that is also not the settled systems

cobalt saffron
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it HAS to be accessed through the space station portal/wormhole

rigid kiln
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the eye at least can or could

cobalt saffron
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They don't fit grav drives to UC stations afaik

rigid kiln
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I mean they should have some grav technology since artificial gravity

cobalt saffron
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also, grav drive maximum range is 30Ly. Kavnyk is more than that from the next nearest system, meaning our grav drives cannot do it

rigid kiln
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the shattered space trailer also heavily hints at the oracle being able to jump, I assume all starstations having artificial grav tech have at least some sort of gravdrive

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my theory has always been, you dock with the station, do stuff, the station jumps (with your ship docked) and then you arrive in orbit of Va'ruun'kai

cobalt saffron
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They've mentioned a portal or wormhole on the abandoned starstation you have to go to

fast radish
rigid kiln
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where did they mention a wormhole on the station specifically?

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not saying you're wrong just don't remember it

cobalt saffron
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It was weeks ago, and I've only seen it mentioned once. I actually don't remember where I saw it, just that I did

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because they also talked about kavnyk being outside the settled systems bubble map we currently have

rigid kiln
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yes bc it's deepspace

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it could be a wormhole that gets us there I'm not saying it isn't, the trailer just shows 2 grav jump animations when they show the station segment so my go to is that

silk lotus
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Off topic but I wonder if a reverse grav jump is possible in starfield? Instead of a ship pulling a itself to its destination, a destination could lock in and grav jump a ship or object to it.

rigid kiln
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theoretically yes

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also starstations having no grav drive makes no sense I would assume they make stations above a capital planet and then jump the whole station, it's a waste of fuel to deliver parts everytime

silk lotus
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I just wanna know whats up with the green pods in the trailer? Cloning, DNA alterations, stasis pods?

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Brainwashing?

scenic loom
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now that i think about it?
maybe they were used for the gravdrive experiement that Anasko is doing or...? sasihmmm

static sky
rigid kiln
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BGS said everything around 50ly from sol is the settled systems

static sky
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Around ? Sol ain’t even in the center, it’s on a side

rigid kiln
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bestie I didn't make the rules

daring lake
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We are where we are sip ☕ .... settled

novel sparrow
soft osprey
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I have a question about shattered space when does it take place?

glad jacinth
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Before Unity

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After you give Sara Ancient Paper Clip from Vectera

daring lake
soft osprey
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I already beat the main game

daring lake
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No one has, as yet. Chapter 1 may be done, but more to come. 🙂
But as long as you have completed "One Small Step" (which you have)
then you are good to go.

soft osprey
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I didn't enter the unity I stayed

daring lake
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Yeah, quite a few folk have done the same.

wise smelt
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I don't like entering Unity. Who actually would make that choice? Sociopaths? The only drive is power you have to fight over.

silk lotus
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Rp wise curiosity? Characters in game have no idea what to expect it what will follow unlike us players who can just Google.

astral walrus
silk lotus
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Rp wise my character wanted a new start to get away from his last life before joining constellation.

fallen kiln
pastel brook
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Most of the people who don’t go to the unity are actually too attached to their loot and weapon. why?
The solar power level 10 let you kill all enemies just use it once and almost anything that isn’t a boss die and for a boss just spam it 6 time it die in less than 10 seconds.

fathom remnant
#

do we need to watch that anime thing in order to understand the lore?

pastel brook
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Not really but since in the game you arrive after the explosion take place. it can help you understand how they have live that

fathom remnant
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ok cool thanks

#

did they fix the bounty hunting bug where you cant talk to the citizen npc you need to?

hard salmon
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And somehow I doubt her mother agreed to it either.

fast radish
hard salmon
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Her mother does care, as far as I have seen. The problem is that she's super flakey because of her work in the Freestar Rangers. She can't keep promises to meet up with Cora.

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Plus there's nothing to indicate that going through the unity gives you powers. We only know for sure that the temples do that.

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Her granddad sucks though, I agree lol

fast radish
static sky
torn zodiac
hard salmon
fast radish
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in my book she does not care about the child.

static sky
fast radish
hard salmon
fast radish
clever acorn
wise smelt
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There's an anime for Starfield?

fast radish
hard salmon
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I don't think Sam's ex is the mother of the year but it's still really messed up if Sam is bringing Cora through the Unity without her consent.

torn zodiac
hard salmon
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And also possibly still messed up to even put Cora in that situation, even if she wants to go.

torn zodiac
wise smelt
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Fanmade?

torn zodiac
# wise smelt Fanmade?

no, official. If you've got it on steam they should be watchable there through the News/Updates posts

hard salmon
torn zodiac
hard salmon
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Fair enough.

wise smelt
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Don't have a pc yet capable. But I'm working on it. I look forward to watching those!

fast radish
clever acorn
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Cora tries to kill you too doesn't she?

hard salmon
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Because you can bring that up and it persuades her

clever acorn
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Ah when do you save him?

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Asking cause I don't think he's ever run into a situation otherwise

fast radish
clever acorn
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In my play throughs

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Oh that makes sense

hard salmon
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It picks the companions with the highest affinity, yeah.

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So Sam can be one of them

clever acorn
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Intergalactic planetary planetary Intergalactic 🎶

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🤣

keen acorn
thin pilot
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Apparently there is supposed to be a tracking device of some sort

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This quest is buggy as hell, and my last save before accepting this damn quest is an hour damn back

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I see what it is. NPC is supposed to activate a tracker. He does not

slate valley
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The safest thing to do with Cora is to ensure Sam is the one killed by the Hunter. Sure Cora hates you forever, and may even hunt you down in an alternate universe, but at least she is safe (she is just 12 years old when we meet her). She goes to live with her mother. Also, Sam admits Cora and Jacob are "thick as thieves" - which means they really get along very very well. Jacob dotes on her, and she adores her grandad. Sam is just a man baby.

solemn bough
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So if you all came in here to see if we got answers to the creators or what not Nope, still remains the biggest cliffhanger in Bethesda game studios history of games

hidden moth
hard salmon
# slate valley The safest thing to do with Cora is to ensure Sam is the one killed by the Hunte...

Sam is right to worry about Jacob imo. Jacob has very specific ideas about what counts as living up to the Coe family name and won't accept much deviation from it. Going no contact might be a bit much but he should absolutely worry about Jacob trying to force or manipulate Cora into living a life she doesn't want. It's important to bear in mind that to this day, Jacob will still not accept the life that Sam has built for himself.

hard salmon
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To be honest, I doubt we'll ever actually meet the creators. I think we will learn more about them to drive speculation but I think Bethesda will want to preserve the mystery.

solemn bough
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I don't agree with that design, we should be granted more clue about the creators. This DLC benefited no one and had no impact

daring lake
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For me it is too soon to draw any conclusions.

cobalt saffron
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she's 12 going on 9

silk lotus
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Could be a autistic savant. I mean she was taking a college level course.

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Book smart but not socially smart?

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Like a female Sheldon Cooper?

burnt wren
#

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slate valley
# silk lotus Book smart but not socially smart?

I've raised 3 autistic sons (all adults now). Cora is far more mature than the typical autistic child according to my experience. Thing is, I only know 8 autistic individuals (me included) and all 8 of us are completely different.
Cora is an artificial character in a game, comparing her to real children is redundant.

dreamy halo
#

The shrines that you can visit grant you buffs there's one that even increases your starborn energy does this mean the great serpent is real?

kind notch
narrow crest
#

Can we talk about how the "A Light in the Darkness" quest makes no sense?

#

So to complete it you have to join the two opposing sides.

cobalt saffron
#

to complete it, you need to do FC, UC, Crimson Fleet, petrovs ship, vectera, bank raid on akila, and one other thing i've forgotten

rocky pond
#

is S. Banks a Starborn? Do you guys think we will ever see him again? Hes gotta be out there. Conisdering what happens with unity hes gotta be in one of the multiverses. Theres no way hes not. I cant belive no one has found him yet.

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I think the mystery surrounding S. Banks is more mysterious than Hous V'Runn (i havnt played Shattered Space yet)

scenic loom
#

its kinda hard to say but its a possibility
keep in mind if theres a lot of starborn versions of you in the multi-verse
the S.Banks we might meet may not even be him or maybe it will be...assuming we do see him in future expansions

kind notch
silk lotus
scenic loom
daring lake
#

Well, the version of The Hunter that we meet has never seen "You" get so far.
But given that other Unis exist make it very probable that another version of
"You" has certainly got that far.
Unity "You" has the line;
"Go out into the stars, all of you here ...."
So even on the player's first time there are other versions of "You" present.
Even if we don't actually see them.

severe remnant
# dreamy halo The shrines that you can visit grant you buffs there's one that even increases y...

You come to find out that the Great Serpent ||was initially encountered during a grav jump||. We know from the Universalists that it's not uncommon to have strange visions and otherworldly experiences during a grav jump. The effects of the Serpent's Embrace trait, the knowledge that grav drive and grav jumps are inextricably linked to the artifacts would suggest that there is something that can be interacted with using grav drive technology. Is it a Serpent? Is it some other god? Is it simply the experience of communing with the Unity itself? Yes. No. It depends on one's perspective.

delicate hazel
hard salmon
#

Even people like the Hunter and Emissary have very likely only seen a tiny piece of the multiverse anyway. Also if I recall, the Emissary mentions that they aren't always sure who "you" are when they arrive in a new universe. They may very well be referring to "you" as a role that you fill. Meaning the person who discovers an artifact and joins Constellation.

silk lotus
#

I still want to meet a starborn Lin and Heller.

daring lake
# delicate hazel the unity is everything tho is it not? so it could very well mean that it's "see...

I understand what you mean. But there is a small indicator that it is not so.
One of the dialogue responses with Unity "You" on subsequent visits;
"You" : "You say that every time"
Unity "You": "Do I? Huh ..."
So for me that means that the Unity "You" does not know everything. 🙂
Even in an environment where linear progression is not really a thing.
Unity "You" is not the Unity itself it would seem.

magic sorrel
#

Any good theories on what the Great Serpent might be

#

I'm tempted to just say the dude was BSing or high on proto-Aurora

rigid kiln
mossy cobalt
# magic sorrel I'm tempted to just say the dude was BSing or high on proto-Aurora

A lot of people have mentioned disorientation and whatnot following a grav jump, and the weird stuff in SS was produced by messing with grav drive technology. It's possible he really did see something, and interpreted it as a divine vision of some kind. The fact that his own grandson was trying so hard to reach back out tells us that 1) nobody else has had any new "divine" revelations and 2) everyone seems to actually believe Jinan Varuun actually saw what he said he saw, so it might just be that simple. Dude had a bad jump experience this one time, saw some stuff, and now it's a religion. I think one or two people in the Sanctum Universum HQ in New Atlantis mention feeling or seeing a bit here and there during jumps as well.

rigid kiln
#

Jinan knew something on kavnyk-I b that nobody else knew off and he said the serpent told him which is why people believe him

And indeed nobody has spoken to the great serpent since jinan, andreja tells us so in the base game

#

In the year 2191, the colony encountered a looming catastrophe. Only Jinan appeared to grasp the true nature of the threat, and his guidance was pivotal in safeguarding the colony and its inhabitants.

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However, the origins of his extraordinary knowledge and insight remained a mystery. Following the averted crisis, Jinan recounted his experience during the final jump of the Archimedes. While the transition was instantaneous for everyone else, Jinan experienced a realm beyond time and space. In this extraordinary state, he was not alone; the stars danced around him, forming a magnificent entity that seemed to embrace the entire cosmos. Jinan conveyed that he sensed this being was still dreaming, but its awakening was imminent. Upon regaining consciousness, he realized that only those who revered the Great Serpent would ascend to rule alongside him as sovereigns in the celestial realm. By the dawn of the 23rd century, Jinan established their Capital City, naming it Dazra, and in gratitude the inhabitants named their moon Va'ruun'kai, as the devotion to this new faith had permeated the entire colony.

magic sorrel
#

Look, grav drive tech is mystical Starborn BS that destroyed our home. If anything, we need to start a crusade to destroy grav drive tech wherever possible kek

magic sorrel
mossy cobalt
# rigid kiln However, the origins of his extraordinary knowledge and insight remained a myste...

See, the thing about the vision is it does seem to be just a vision. The Great Serpent doesn't say anything to him, it's just there, a subjective arrangement of the stars. Everything he decided afterwards was his interpretation of the image formed in his mind. Now, I do recall that they mentioned that Jinan picked where they landed and it allowed them to settle in some convenient caves, and that's great, but also lots of places have caves, and the moon has enough life on it that there's probably plenty of groundwater to form them. There's a cave complex near my hometown that I never even knew about until I visited it as an adult, it's not famous like the Mammoth Cave System or anything like that. It might've just been a fortunate circumstance that they landed there, and he perceived it as divine intervention. All of what happened could be interpreted as the real intervention of a real celestial being, or it could be interpreted as fortuitous circumstances that quickly snowballed into a religion.

rigid kiln
#

Jinan says the serpent spoke to him

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The great serpent is the only truth anyway, all must serve

daring lake
magic sorrel
#

Yes... yes!!! More esoteric stuff please

mossy cobalt
daring lake
mossy cobalt
daring lake
#

Someday I will have to post the hypothesis in full. But there are more than a few links
that make it compelling for me. As I said, I've been deliberately looking for stuff that
will break it and make me move on to other possible avenues. But so far ....

#

Oh, and as for Sanctum Universum, that is only a religion because Aquilas/Hunter sees the Unity
as God.

mossy cobalt
#

Looking for things that disprove a concept is a great way to narrow down possibilities towards the truth! It's how I concluded that the Artifacts do NOT scatter after they're used to reach Unity. (Disproof: siding with the Hunter causes him to go through the Unity, but you still have the Armillary and can still use it again afterwards if you walk away from it, even though he already went through. If you go through then your ship is apparently just still there afterwards, as a permanent gate to the Unity!)

mossy cobalt
daring lake
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I have yet to do the Scaled Citadel thing. Been holding off whilst doing a few of the side missions,
and a bit of exploring. But even if I find nothing further I believe a link can be made between
Jinan's scientific experiments and a possible component in the construction of The Unity.
I need more data, and also need to review the ton of screenies I have of slates, dialogue etc.

mossy cobalt
#

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I'm in the same place as you: I've been exploring the city but haven't done the quests to go in the Citadel to find Anasko yet. But hearing that they've pierced this Vortex between planes of existence (I think they called them "dimensions" but you know) makes me thing they've found a way to dip in and out of the current universe, which points towards the same principles the Creators must have used to provide the Unity. Plus we know that the principles used in grav drives are related to Creator technology, and that's what Anasko had his people working on. It does seem like a clue towards the kinds of technology the Creators must have tapped into.

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There've also been some interesting discussions on Reddit about the Creators themselves probably being humans, or at least linked up with Earth directly in some way. The experiments by House Varuun might be treading that same path, in a way, or might even be leading directly to that eventual outcome if the hypothesis that the Creators are FUTURE humanity is actually the truth.

Reddit
From the starfield_lore community on Reddit

Explore this post and more from the starfield_lore community

daring lake
#

I'd probably need to spam Phased Time if I went to the Reddit lore pages 🙂
Feels like I'm living more than one life already 😄
But yeah, it looks like a version of "Future Humanity" is a suspect.

faint cave
#

I bet it's that guy/girl/robot from the Unity.
I wonder if other species can become Starborn? Imagine Starborn Terrormorphs.

daring lake
#

Looking at a particular creature from the Vortex, I could be forgiven for thinking
that the 'Morphs have an extra-dimensional origin tbh. Hard to see why BGS
would use a model that closely resembles a heatleech but Devs have a sense
of humour I guess 🙂

scenic loom
#

maybe.... Vortex Horrors are just Starborn heatleeches and Fluffy Terrormorphs potatoderp

jade marlin
#

Can someone explain the whole vortex phantom lore for me? From what I can tell, unless you are linked to the vortex interlock, being exposed to the vortex energy drives you mad. So are people being driven mad because they are suck between dimensions or something?

mossy cobalt
# faint cave I bet it's that guy/girl/robot from the Unity. I wonder if other species can be...

Honestly I think terrormorphs could genuinely be sapient. They can certainly be intelligent enough to competently use their like mind-control pheromones (or however that works) against humans in a fairly tactical way; not all of them are able to do that at all, but (considering that some of them do) it's hard to believe their peak intelligence doesn't fall into at least the ordinary human range.

I suspect their purpose in the || heatleech || life cycle is just to kill everything nearby so that nothing can threaten their little colonies (since || heatleeches || don't appear to rely on any kind of ordinary food for energy); in that sense they remind me of the Pak Protectors from Known Space, which are also much more intelligent than the forms earlier in their lifecycle (but don't personally reproduce).

I say all that to say: it would be interesting if Terrormorphs are the only sapient life we run into within the Starfield series. I do imagine they could become Starborn if the process isn't human-specific (as it might be, if the Creators turn out to be humans).

silk lotus
#

I mean I don't see terrormoprhs building ships or grav drive tech, which you need to get to the unity .

magic sorrel
forest wolf
#

Is the United Colonies the embodiment of the entire human race or is it a direct successor of the USA?

daring lake
#

The inference is that it is the successor to the United Nations. Although nothing
is actually stated in the backstory/timeline that can be dug up in-game.

forest wolf
#

Oh

keen spear
#

Terrormorphs are not sapient lol

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Literally not a single thing in the story points to them being sapient

rigid kiln
mossy cobalt
#

I agree that the UC seems to be descended from some kind of emergency international cooperation structure during the exodus, probably organized through the UN on some level. Most of the USA themes in the game come from the lead grav drive researcher (||i.e. the one who touched the artifact||) personally being a NASA employee, so NASA winds up getting a lot of credit for early interstellar exploration. But aside from NASA there's really no USA role in the plot.

mossy cobalt
# keen spear Literally not a single thing in the story points to them being sapient

What about the one at the end of the questline? With the little army of other creatures fighting for it? If the mind control thing is just "fear pheremones" or whatever, I don't think things would be as organized as they seem to be. They seem intelligent enough that I wouldn't be surprised if they understand more than PROTECT LEECH is all I'm saying. It seems like there's space in their behavior for sapience to be a trait they have.

daring lake
#

The problem with that is that we never come across a 'Morph around any
of the known leech nest sites.

mossy cobalt
#

That's actually in line with my thinking. I imagine leeches can reproduce on their own, terrormorphs just serve the role of a roving "exterminator" type of thing in their life cycle. They protect the leeches by killing anything that moves.

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I'm speculating, of course, but it does seem to be backed up by what we see in game. I don't know that they ever explicitly state that the leeches have to reach the 'morph stage to breed.

daring lake
#

The full life cycle has not yet been revealed. Which organism/process creates
the cocoon for example? Currently the top suspect is the Xenogrub. But no
actual proof as yet.

mossy cobalt
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When they kill that dinosaur thing in front of us on Tau Ceti they don't even pause to nibble on it. They also leave behind most/all of the human bodies they kill. Their hunting seems to be unrelated to food, unlike (say) the ashta, in my understanding.

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So I think the leeches evolved a turbo death machine just to clear their habitat of any current or future possible predator.

daring lake
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That's not what we see on Toliman II though. Out in the wild I mean,
not just around Londinion

mossy cobalt
#

Hmm

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You may be right about that. Although, Aceles did exist there until a few 'morph generations ago.

daring lake
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Until 20 years ago in fact.

mossy cobalt
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Oh, so like a third of a generation

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So if they were going to morphiform the ecosystem they haven't quite had the chance to do so

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I did find it a bit amusing, reading Hadrian's notes on them, to think about how they increase in mass over the decades until suddenly they burst out of their heatleech "cocoon"/skin and then there's a terrormorph there. Their tissues must start out essentially hollow, like bird bones, probably filled with a low-density liquid. They'd probably be kinda freaky to look at if a young 'leech was cut into sections.

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But the older ones would have those spaces mostly filled with highly compact terrormorph tissues, so they'd presumably weigh hundreds of kg.

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I'm a bit surprised the guys picking the things out of ships wouldn't occasionally comment on like "wow this little guy weighs a freaking ton"

#

In comparison to the youngest ones, which would be much lighter, at least

keen acorn
#

The line where Aceles were all over the settled systems then they started harvesting them during the war, to near extinction. Since the Aceles are crazy for heatleeches and terrormorphs - I find that odd they were all over(Aceles) - since heatleeches and Terrormorphs seem to only be able to be based in Londinian area. Unless we are missing some past culture that transported them to other planets. Along with the Aceles.

daring lake
keen acorn
daring lake
#

Ok. I may have missed that. Where can I get/find that info?

keen acorn
daring lake
#

Yes 🤷‍♂️ ? 🙂

keen acorn
#

I beleive it was Sarah that discussed it and a scientist. Some mention of it in the museum in NA. Oh and the TMD mentioned it also where you are introduced to the Aceles (the first time).

daring lake
#

Do you mean the Vanguard Hall? If so I'll go over the screenies again
but I don't recall it in truth.

keen acorn
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I know its small descriptions. Just like in vanilla game - snippets on the Va'ruun (People guessing all sorts of things).

fast radish
#

So what are the odds that Jinan is a starborn or met his alternative universe starborn? As esp after going through the DLC I am more convinced than ever that this might be the case.

keen acorn
# fast radish So what are the odds that Jinan is a starborn or met his alternative universe st...

It is obvious he was given information. It helped to settle them in Dazra. But he never mentioned meeting himself. Also it was a Colony spaceship - not our spaceships. He saw the Nexus stars. So lets say he went to the Nexus but not provided his You avatar. Yet the Avatar spoke to him and gave him knowledge. Then he returned. I think that is a plausible scenario. He assigned the Great Serpent to the way the Nexus displayed the stars to him, at the time.

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I am sure it took a few days for all the information Jinan was provided to make sense, also.

fast radish
#

and after the experiment failed he bailed by faking his death.

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As we know now that his son and grandson cant hear the serpent. So clearly the source of the information for the founder was cut off and not continued after his death

forest wolf
#

Is it only me that thinks that the UC is literally the US but cleaner

spice prawn
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@forest wolf Nope, you aren't the only one. I kinda think that, too. Like a clean California...or Atlanta. Or a Charlotte, NC!🥴

forest wolf
fast radish
#

Since every house manages a ministry what happened to the ministry that was ran by House Ma'leen after they were kicked out?

young timber
mossy cobalt
#

Is there a term for someone who was the first to touch an artifact, but has not yet ascended to the full Starborn level with powers and whatnot?

#

I was trying to explain to someone that it's not random that we show up on Dazra and they're like "you can hear him wtf you must be important"; Barrett can hear him too. There are infinite Starborn out there, we are NOT that special, we're just the first one who showed up in the couple of weeks since the incident.

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But I was struggling with how to put this succinctly because technically on the first play through you might not be a "full" Starborn at all yet (likewise Barrett). What do we call the in-between state after being the first to touch an artifact?

daring lake
#

Although, we are the only ones at that meeting to have been heavily exposed to the Vortex energy
already. So it may not be artifact related.

mossy cobalt
#

Well, if you bring any other companion along through the Oracle they still don't hear Anasko. It's just Barrett that can hear him too. So it does seem to be a Starborn thing.

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Or... proto-Starborn? Whatever term we're using for the group including Starborn and also the ones who are not yet Starborn but were the first to touch an Artifact.

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If anyone has a good term for it I'm all ears 😅

delicate hazel
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i like the term Proto-Starborn

daring lake
#

"Super-Human" 😄

karmic gale
#

Super-Soldier.

spiral stirrup
#

Your character is called the Starfarer. Maybe that's it

mossy cobalt
#

Hmm. "Barrett is a known Starfarer." I guess I could see that usage making sense.

daring lake
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He is certainly a known "something" .... I don't know what Lin would call him 😄

bright ore
#

I'd like there to have been an explanation for the etymology of various Va'ruun names. Some of them (like Jinan), have Earth origins, but a lot don't appear to. I get that Bethesda wants to avoid coding the Va'ruun as Middle Eastern, but there should be a reason for why these names exist.

novel sparrow
#

isn't the one who touched the artifact and saw the visions called starkissed?

#

heard it somewhere

keen acorn
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I think I heard that too. But not sure whom said it in game.

mossy cobalt
#

Next time I'm in the MQ I'll have to look out for that one, if it shows up!

dreamy halo
# mossy cobalt I was trying to explain to someone that it's not random that we show up on Dazra...

I personally feel like there's more to it than just touching it first. Otherwise we should be able to see all the constellation members as the emissary. Not to mention that even if you kill both the emissary and hunter, and let the rest of the systems discover and research the artifacts. You never run into a universe where people have powers. Outside of yourself, Barrett,the hunter and whoever the emissary is in that universe and random starborn.

scenic loom
#

id like to think that... with the whole multi-verse thing
the universes we "mostly" run into are just the variants of the changes the constellation crew

im sure there are other universes where the lodge just doesnt exist at all
or the lodge is the a whole Empire
or Chunks Employees are starborn
or House Va'ruun has destroyed the FC and UC
or Vasco became the terminator and took over all the settled systems
...and all kinds of universes

but for the sake of technicality and limitations of the game
we are just running into the universes where only we (the player) matters

keen acorn
hard salmon
acoustic lodge
mossy cobalt
# hard salmon We also don't really know how people like The Hunter and The Trader typically be...

I think the only universes we can manifest into are ones that are compatible enough with us (or someone substantially similar to us) getting the artifact. That's why we can change our traits etc. (e.g. having a Dream Home contract or not, having the Wanted bounty or not, being UC Native or Neon Street Rat, and so on) but we always happen to find that artifact on Vectera and then start into the universe. I tend to think some of the "recurring" starborn are people who canonically touched artifacts in "our" universe, e.g. at least one of the quest artifacts was first picked up by an unknown miner who we never meet, having already parted ways with the artifact because they were freaked out by the vision it gave them. It's possible a version of that miner wound up as, say, the Trader.

#

Oh, in "our" universe the Eye always exists in a useful form too, which is why we can always use it in NG+ even if most/all of Constellation is gone, or exists in some unrecognizable form (e.g. being bought out by the Starborn-influenced alternate Walter)

dreamy halo
#

Is there anymore information on the vortex horrors?

glacial arrow
#

So I was giving it some idle thought the other day, and it occurred to me: the Unity really does demand your life. What are your memories but a unique arrangement of uncountable neuron patterns in your brain, after all? The Unity consumes you completely, destroying you, and builds a perfect clone on the other side.

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It really isn't you - it just thinks it is. Your consciousness almost certainly doesn't shift to the new body, in that case: the Unity is actual suicide.

#

Also explains why the the Starborn can change so swiftly from who they were cloned from, into individuals like the Guardians, Hunters, and Emissaries.

#

Hells, I'm also not convinced the Unity doesn't build the new Starborn clone of you out of your existing alternate self from the next universe. In which case, it's basically a double suicide: you've doomed yourself and an alternate you to create a single Starborn.

hard salmon
glacial arrow
#

Who vanished right about the exact time your new Starborn clone popped into existence.

#

Coincidence? I think NOT!

hard salmon
#

To be fair, according to the Hunter, you generally don't make it very far regardless. Even if you make it out of Argos, you apparently will usually be the one who dies in the Hunter attack.

glacial arrow
#

Yes, but Vasco was very specific: your alternate self wasn't KILLED after Vectera, they simply WENT MISSING.

#

Went missing, mind you, at the same time a Starborn you appeared.

#

That timing is ultra sus.

#

Especially since alt you was with Vasco all during that trip

#

And then simply vanished. There's only two places it could've happened: either on the ship itself, or in that base you have to attack.

#

But in the first place, there's zero reason for alt you to leave Vasco and the Frontier on that trip, because they've got no other ship. They'd be stranded.

#

So I really don't think alt you going missing was voluntary on their part, and apparently Vasco didn't even see the vanishing happen, because you're just 'went missing'.

#

Hells, it might not even be malicious by the Unity. It could be a protection of some kind, to prevent confusion from multiple You existing at once. Though there is an alt universe that seems to attract a whole bunch of You.

glacial arrow
#

He can't remember a time when you won because he just had the luck to somehow evade all your Starborn selves, and the times he lost, he can't remember because you killed him.

mossy cobalt
#

I suppose versions of the Hunter who remember you not dying would only be in universes where you personally ally with him

#

I suspect this is considered to be the least common option (at least among players) considering, well, the conflicts involved.

glacial arrow
# mossy cobalt Ooh, that's a good point

Yeah, his perspective and opinions are fatally flawed because it hasn't occurred to him that he can't remember ever losing to you.... because you never let him live.

#

Same for the Emissary, in fact.

mossy cobalt
#

Well, except for the thousands of times that he killed you, But yeah, I'm sure there are at least as many where you kill him.

glacial arrow
#

Even the Emissary was surprised you survived, which points to the same fatal flaw. But you're different, because they made the mistake of telling you about the situation.

mossy cobalt
#

Honestly, despite their flaws, I do find the Hunter's view more compelling, just because I think leaving the Armillary open for others to find and use leaves a lot more people the opportunity to become Starborn (which, let's be honest, is essentially gaining immortality and magic) than having the Emissary sit there as a literal gatekeeper on the thing.

That being said, in almost every universe I kill them both. Sorry, Sarah and Barrett (my Emissaries), I don't like killing you but you and Hunter are both WAY more aggressive than you need to be.

glacial arrow
#

I always convince them both to stand down. Except for NG Hunter, he has to bite it. Emissary too, for being a prat. Sip

mossy cobalt
#

Plus, even though the Hunter kills a bunch of people (which I'm not justifying, certainly) the Emissary still kills people despite actually not really needing to. Presumably they spawn into their new universe with an Artifact, so they could just... hold onto that one, right? I mean, the Armillary won't get built if they build a fort and defend their Artifact from any incoming Hunters or the like. So they could just wait the other Starborn out and build it on their own later.

glacial arrow
#

Also, I'm convinced at this point it's not immortality. Reasoning: Unity's cost is 'the part of you that makes you unique'. The new Starborn is almost certainly just recreation of your exact atomic structure, which means it's a CLONE and not you. You're dead because you shoved yourself in a cosmic black hole. The new Starborn just thinks it's you because it's got the same neuron structures giving it the same memories.

mossy cobalt
#

Hmm. A fair perspective. It seems like the "new" you is pretty much immortal, though, so it's close enough in my book.

glacial arrow
#

It's got your face but your consciousness blew up when you fed yourself to Unity. It's not like your mind/soul/whatever carried on, you stopped thinking the moment you shoved your brain in the black hole.

#

I'm almost positive that's how it goes - why else would the music when you're disappearing and then becoming a cosmic blast be so .... not sad, exactly, but a farewell? If it was such an outstanding victory with no major repercussions, it should be a grand moment, not a semi-tragic one.

faint cave
#

The version of yourself at the Unity must have been cackling when you finally fully step into it and you can no longer hear them.

glacial arrow
#

The Collector even warns you that the Unity's basically going to kill you

mossy cobalt
#

Eh, I mean, if you don't go into the Unity you're still eventually going to die in some way that does NOT spawn an immortal time-traveling variant of yourself, so I don't think it's so much a sacrifice. Even if you view it as a death, the "new" you has your memories, yes? It has new capabilities but it's still informed by being "you" in the past. If I learn a new skill and then go to sleep, did I die and wake up as a different person? Some would argue yes; in much the same way, I see no reason to fear the Unity.

#

Well

#

The idea that it might be the "person" Aiza met that caused him to ||render Earth uninhabitable|| is certainly a cause for concern and arguably fear.

#

But becoming Starborn in and of itself seems like a decent trade.

glacial arrow
#

My point is that you, your consciousness, doesn't continue. It ends. Still just as dead. Sip

mossy cobalt
#

Well, your consciousness arguably doesn't persist through sleep, either, is my point.

glacial arrow
#

...you... make a surprisingly valid point.

mossy cobalt
#

Right. A collection most mostly the same neurons with all of the same memories boots into consciousness the following day, but there's a very clear and obvious break in continuity.

glacial arrow
#

I mean, if it's like that, then yeah, it might as well just be like sleeping. It really would be effectively immortality.

mossy cobalt
#

If you define "living" as "continuity of a single stream of consciousness" then we die an average of once per day.

glacial arrow
#

See, I hadn't considered that angle, but you're absolutely right.

mossy cobalt
glacial arrow
#

Huh, yeah, there really is no reason to fear Unity in that case.

mossy cobalt
#

As Heraclitus once asserted, there's no way for a person to cross the same river twice, for it will not be the same river, nor will it be the same person.

glacial arrow
#

Also, I found something absolutely fascinating today. Apparently Bethesda had intended to decorate the Starborn Guardians.... but then didn't use the assets they made. https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8009

Nexus Mods :: Starfield
Furnished Starborn Ship

Makes the Starborn Guardian less empty. Adds furniture, crafting, storage containers, and a little decor to the interior of the NG+ ship.

#

The decorations give deep insight into Starborn physiology and lifestyle, which I had previously assumed was radically different from humans since the Guardian couldn't support HUMAN life, having no beds and no kitchen (still no bathroom though)

#

My assumption was that the Starborn Guardians were effectively armed and mobile cosmic wombs/eggs - after all, it's the shell each new Starborn crawls out of.

#

And that due to them being the Starborn Guardians, were perfectly equipped for Starborn physical needs. Meaning Starborn clearly had different requirements for life if they didn't need beds or a kitchen.

mossy cobalt
#

Due to not being able to replace the habs, it would be a bit irritating if the ones in-game had preset furniture

#

I usually have at least half of my habs blank with custom-placed stuff in them

glacial arrow
#

Anyway, my point is that seeing all this Starborn furniture, it becomes clear that the Guardian was intended to be much more than it currently is, and that Starborn aren't quite as alien as I'd assumed they must be.

mossy cobalt
#

Good point, certainly

glacial arrow
#

I wish I knew why Bethesda decided to not make use of the assets, though. You can't get them in-game, they're just leftover files.

mossy cobalt
#

Did the Pilgrim have a place to sleep?

#

That might be an in-game indication.

glacial arrow
#

He did, yeah

mossy cobalt
#

Hmm, so on a lore level it's still there

glacial arrow
#

He's got a bed stuffed in the corner of his room

#

I had assumed either Starborn didn't need to sleep, or that they simply did so in the Guardian's chair.

mossy cobalt
#

That's a Doylist perspective obviously but it's the best I've got 😅

glacial arrow
#

It may also have been due to needing to furnish 6 different player ships, plus Emissary and Hunter's.

#

thonktwist Also, I don't think we can decorate Guardians

mossy cobalt
#

Maybe mine's affected by a mod? I could check the Community Patch notes to see if that's doing it

glacial arrow
#

How do I decorate, again?

mossy cobalt
#

Honestly I can't remember everything that's in my current run. Ever since I realized it's mostly safe to swap mods when going through the Unity it was game over for me remembering my load order

#

It's a button in the scanner interface

glacial arrow
#

Ah, yeah, that's when I swap out mods, too, or update them

#

!!! Oh, you CAN decorate it! Or at least the option to is in the scanner. I dunno if it would actually let me PLACE things, but I can open the decorator.

#

You can decorate it. Spawned some materials and crafted a thing inside the Guardian. I had NO IDEA you were allowed to do that.

mossy cobalt
#

Unfurnished ships score another victory! (Although I do usually put one or two pre-furnished habs on mine)

glacial arrow
#

I only use prefabs

#

I can't be arsed to customize a hab

mossy cobalt
#

Ever since they stopped clutter items from respawning (which also means habs you add yourself spawn without them) I kinda don't like the premade all-in-one habs as much as I used to. They look... half-finished, without the pots and pans and board games and other clutter that's clearly assumed to be there by default.

#

So if it's gonna look half-finished anyway I'd might as well place the stuff I want on my own

#

But for stuff like battle stations and whatnot, yeah, the premade looks better than what I would've placed, so I use that

glacial arrow
#

Like this, for instance, gives more insight into the Starborn. That's not a design choice a majority of humans would go with. https://imgur.com/4SNpiWA

Imgur
mossy cobalt
#

Hmm, interesting. You're definitely not wrong.

#

Maybe because they can live for hundreds of years? (At least in the Hunter and Pilgrim's case apparently.)

#

If they spend a lot of time hanging out on their ship in between influencing historical events, it might be that a lot of lounging around involves transitioning smoothly in and out of sleep... or something.

#

If backlit slates exist I could see just chilling on that thing reading books for a couple of decades at a time.

glacial arrow
#

Of course, part of that general shape could be to not block the stairs, but that doesn't explain the ...cushions? Now, the other one is a little more classic, but still not something you'd normally see in a furniture shop. https://imgur.com/IkxKhFZ

Imgur
mossy cobalt
#

Yeah I'd definitely prefer that one myself.

glacial arrow
#

Also, the overall shape isn't anything remotely standard, either.

mossy cobalt
#

Maybe the Creators were really into straight lines? (Rhetorical question. We know they were.)

#

Were/are

glacial arrow
#

Then why is the Guardian so ROUND?!

mossy cobalt
#

Circles are an honorary straight line because their curvature is consistent 🤔

glacial arrow
#

Actually, I'm pretty sure all the circles are reflections of the Unity.

mossy cobalt
#

Yeah, that's my interpretation as well.

#

Although the Vortex stuff in Shattered Space does make me wonder (especially if the Creators are in fact just advanced humans, as one common hypothesis goes) if it would be possible to build another Unity, if it was built artificially to begin with.

#

I know the whole "it's where the realities connect" thing implies that this wouldn't make sense

glacial arrow
#

The Unity is supposedly the beating heart of the multiverse, akin to the Dark Tower.

mossy cobalt
#

But if we can punch holes anyway via the Vortex 🤔🤔🤔

glacial arrow
#

The axis on which all realities turn.

mossy cobalt
#

Right, I understand that angle. But on a practical level, it only ever spits us out in realities that seem to hinge on our existence in the other realities

#

So if the multiverse looks like a tree, it's not hingeing very far, at least for us

#

So what it actually does might be more limited, is what I'm saying

#

It might be the metaphorical center due to allowing us to traverse that tree, but there might not be a literal center

glacial arrow
#

Alternatively, there's an unknown purpose behind why it sends you where your presence is apparently needed.

#

Someone on Reddit described it thusly:

The Starborn are the kids who found the keys to dad's car, and are playing with something that they simply don't understand. Everything they enter a new universe with - the ship, the suit, even their own corporeal body and the powers that course through it - are the gifts of an unknowable pan-dimensional alien intelligence. The Starborn are pretty much just along for the ride.

mossy cobalt
#

If the "transit" thing is actually the case, we could just make another "Unity" that achieves the same purpose as far as transitting goes, but can punch holes even further than this one does.

#

Unity 2.0

#

It would probably have some kind of horrible radioactive Vortex pollution spewing out after every use, but hey, progress ain't free

coarse root
#

New theory drop, starborn don't like nachos 😱

mossy cobalt
#

And it's a big universe, we could put it somewhere that the Vortex stuff wouldn't be bothering anyone

glacial arrow
#

Someone else, on the topic of the unused Starborn furniture and the empty Guardians, said
Credits. Objects. Things. It's all meaningless in the face of Unity. All you need is your suit and a ship to take you to the artifacts.

mossy cobalt
#

And the Eye, for finding them

#

Thanks Livingstone!

glacial arrow
#

I'm not completely convinced the Eye is strictly necessary - after all, Hunter and Emissary got their artifacts without it.

mossy cobalt
#

Well, Emissary could probably just walk right onto the Eye* without raising much suspicion.

glacial arrow
#

Mmmm, I'm not convinced the Emissary would play impostor like that.

mossy cobalt
#

Hunter might have all of the potential Artifact locations just memorized. The fact that the Lodge attack is a recurring incident certainly points to that in my book.

glacial arrow
#

I don't think so, and here's why: Hunter knows Constellation will collect for him. He only attacks because they've made it convenient to do so - and because it's the source of the Emissaries.

mossy cobalt
#

Oh, good second point there.

#

Although them collecting the Artifacts for him does mean he's benefitting from the Eye as well, to carry that point.

glacial arrow
#

Yes, but he already has Artifacts of his own even before then.

#

He may have taken some from the Emissary, perhaps.

#

The Emissaries change even during a single NG/NG+

#

So obviously the Hunter and Emissary are dueling it out when you're not around, unless you've ticked them both off

#

Probably a bunch of Guardians and Emissaries vs Hunter battles going on in the background. Hunter's supposed to be the most powerful and ancient of the existing Starborn. Emissaries are the upstarts trying to keep him from growing even more powerful. They outnumber him, but he's still an ancient with supreme powers and basically infinite experience.

mossy cobalt
#

I'm definitely excited for them to expand more on those lore elements during future DLC. Initially I was concerned they wouldn't (they already had plenty of "map to fill" (so to speak) in even the existing Settled Systems prior to adding new stars to it, but Shattered Space does touch on some multiverse stuff in its own way so I'm hopeful that we'll get a DLC that fills in some narrative space on Unity and so on.

#

Initially I thought we might just get set piece maps in future DLC (not unlike Dazra) and maybe one or two new megacorps as an excuse to add new hab styles.

glacial arrow
#

Also, Constellation's members have severe... what's the word for it, survivor bias?

mossy cobalt
#

I imagine survivor bias is a big thing affecting the worldview of "older" Starborn, yeah.

glacial arrow
#

It's a classic case of a few (okay, a bunch) of bad apples ruining the lot. There's quite a few non-hostile Starborn we can find, and I'd bet the Settled Systems have TONS of them we never see.

#

Why? Because the only time Starborn expose themselves as a rule is if they want the Unity.

#

So all Constellation can see are the troublemakers, because the entire rest of the Starborn are living quiet lives, blending into humanity.

mossy cobalt
#

So, as far as I can tell, the hypothesis that the Armillary "scatters" into new relic locations when traversed is not true. (If you ally with the Hunter and walk away from the Unity, at least, he goes through and the Armillary still works, so yeah.)

I mention this to say: a lot of the "neutral" Starborn (the presumably peaceful ones that we don't see in-game) might just be playing "wait and see" with the more active ones like the Hunter, the Emissary, and the player character. They might just start filtering through to the Unity once someone opens the portal so to speak.

glacial arrow
#

That's also a possibility, but! The Mysterious Trader puts that theory to rest.

#

MT's entire thing is that the slog for the Unity is painful and harsh, so she stopped trying to enter the Unity.

#

If it was so easy to access after someone else opened the way, there'd be no reason not to go.

mossy cobalt
#

Well, if the Emissary has anything to say about it, the Armillary is going to be under guard 24/7 after it's built.

#

And if you ally with her then it's stated that they send a number of new people through

glacial arrow
#

The better option for the Emissary would be to take the Armillary apart after use and re-scatter it.

mossy cobalt
#

So the Emissary crew probably outnumbers other Starborn in the average universe.

mossy cobalt
glacial arrow
#

Rather than leaving it intact and having to guard it forever, hide the pieces all over the Systems.

#

Maybe some of the Emissaries go, maybe Hunter if he lives and manages to beat them to it before it's dismantled, or if he overwhelms them.

#

But probably at least one Emissary remains behind to take it apart and re-scatter it.

mossy cobalt
#

I wonder what happens if someone goes rogue and just drops an Artifact into a star.

glacial arrow
#

If it was that easy, the Emissaries would've done it centuries prior.

mossy cobalt
#

Or navigates into one by accident

#

Well, my thought is that the Creators might have something in place to fix that scenario

glacial arrow
#

Exactly, I don't think they can be disposed of by modern (or even Artifact-level) tech

mossy cobalt
#

Especially if the hypothesis is correct that they (through Unity) are the ones who convinced Aiza to... well, you know everything he did.

#

If it was possible to completely prevent new Armillary activations they'd probably be opposed to it if they desperately want humanity to be out there assembling it.

glacial arrow
#

Actually, I have a thought. They're connected to Unity, and we know they exist across all realities. I have a sneaking hunch the Artifacts can't be destroyed in any normal way, because they may be cross-dimensional.

mossy cobalt
#

That's definitely plausible.

glacial arrow
#

In other words, the Artifact you see is just an infinitely small fragment of the entire piece, spread across universes.

#

In which case, you'd need something strong enough to actually damage it, and do so in enough/all realities at once.

#

Just a thought, anyway. Would not be surprised if the Unity can replace them even if they get hucked into a black hole or yeeted into a star, either. Or fired into black space.

mossy cobalt
#

Well, if it's present in all of them at once, wouldn't one interpretation be that damaging one (if we found a way to do so) would damage every instance of it everywhere?

#

Like changing the data in a pointer.

glacial arrow
#

Except the data is spread across a lot of pointers, and altering one gets reverted by the others.

#

And if you can't reach the other pointers, you can't stop their effect on the one you can.

#

We also know identical Artifacts can even resonate across the boundaries between universes and pull them closer, or even merge them.

#

You'd probably need an experiment like that if you want to actually harm an Artifact, I'd imagine.

mossy cobalt
#

I do wonder where new Starborn spawn if they entered the Unity without being one of the ones to first touch an Artifact (as implied by how the Unity describes the Emissary's activities if you side with them).

#

Maybe they spawn... wherever the Armillary was when they entered it?

glacial arrow
#

Given our spawn point, probably wherever their counterpart last was, or in that general vicinity.

mossy cobalt
#

Oh, good point. I forgot for a second that our counterpart is also there, not just the Artifact that we spawn with.

rocky pond
#

I made a post about this in the suggestions that got burried deep into the threads within 2 days, it did get like 12 likes on it which that post im sure is lost to time by now idk why they even have it when peoples ideas from last month are beyond gone by now :*(

wary sand
#

I think it is intentional. Keeps it vague, fosters discussion

silk lotus
#

Im starting to think that the universe isn't truly infinite. Has Ifinite possibilities but doesn't have a truly infinite number of existing possibilities.

glacial arrow
#

Well yeah, cause Bethesda cheaped out on alternative routes / uni's

silk lotus
#

I mean more how the emissary and hunter say they have never seen us make it so far. And the hunter has seen thousand of universes himself, all of which our character dies before reaching the unity. Then we ourselves reach the unity and suddenly we can meet other variants of ourselves. Thus my theory is that our character pre unity is the first is to make it there, and by entering the unity other variants of us can then enter the unity after us.

#

Basically our first world variant is the first of us to pass through the unity.

vagrant root
#

Hot take

Aiza did nothing wrong

daring lake
vagrant root
#

It's because of him that humanity will never go extinct

daring lake
#

Yes ... and ... No. 🙂

stable steppe
#

Rushing the development & proliferation of grav drive tech without better understanding it despite knowing the exact nature of the danger to come was the single most arrogant act by any single human in all of history up to that point.

wary sand
#

But what if there is more to it and rush was necessary to avoid another bigger existential danger which is now unseen because it was avoided?

stable steppe
#

I think Aiza was a useful idiot & the rush was more about dismantling legacy power structures. I think the rush was overall more of a long-term ploy for a power grab by as of yet unknown/future actors.

#

Starborn Aiza is from the future, not the same timeline. So far he seems to be the only one who was able to use the unity to not just change universes but also time.

daring lake
#

... also... there is no known "Starborn Aiza"

wary sand
wary sand
daring lake
#

Erm ... ? What? .... Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by
"Unity Loop"

wary sand
#

There was a discussion today about precedence of Emissary-Hunter relationship and their potential past in a relationship to player becoming in the same league

#

This whole ordeal is inconsistent therefore Aizas revelations is inconsistent as well due to virtue of the phenomena

#
  • Pilgrim is a character completely without sense of time: present both in distant past and Aquilus present. But nevertheless important to bootstrap player to witness Aiza doing. There is something fishy here.
#

My point is: hunter vs emissary might be that danger in some sense. Forcing gravdrive evened the field

daring lake
#

There are two environments in-game that can cause understandable confusion.
The first is the player perspective that shows a linear progression of events over
time. The second is the multiverse, which is unseen but is still there nevertheless.
From the Unity perspective there is no linear progression.

So, when "You" picks up the 1st Cutter at Vectera, all events across spacetime
have already happened, and are continuing to happen, and will happen. But from
the player perspective we don't get to see that.

There will be a Uni out there where Aiza declined to put the Earth at risk and
continued with developing grav drives at the Mars facility. We just never get
to see it.

wary sand
#

I think it is incorrect assumption from meta-narrative perspective

daring lake
#

It is actually what is laid out before us though.

wary sand
#

Judging be interview with Emil where was a notion of using a writer with particular Christian background. Especially considering blatant symbolism of omega point in the game and immutability of key events from player perspective with starborn path of next play through offering reflection of witnessing this immutability and growing content with the journey I may offer a leap of faith that the core point of the game(from narrative perspective) is that faith is a catalyst of change and science is a way to control this change(syncretism). Aiza having a cognitive malfunction forced the change which made his reality inconsistent and set both in past and future things in motion unshackling humanity from impending destiny. Therefore reality where Unity operates and Aiza fails to gravdrive are impossible. This notion of syncretic interpretation of will to change is playfully introduced by Matteo in foreshadowing manner and recently shown in opposite extreme in current DLC.

#

And I would not be surprised if there is a play on “true will” concept of Thelema after “Abremalin field” incident of Fo4 in Parsons Insane Asylum from Cabot House. There is some degree of fascination at Bethesda.

daring lake
#

Interesting. Whilst belief systems exist in-game I don't see them as being pivotal to the story
we are presented with. They appear to have importance to the characters we meet, but seem
to be less important to the overall story that is being rolled out.
The multiverse tableau allows for all possibilities, but there are many of those that we would
never see. The "Aiza develops grav drives on Mars" Uni would be one of those. As well as those
Uni's where humanity could never exist or survive.
So we have to separate the two, and can only gather evidence from the player perspective.

wary sand
#

Darza blowup is quite a reframing push to counter that idea imo, but I agree: collection of facts must happen from player perspective, there is no other way. As usual, truth might be somewhere in between, but having an open mind about intentional inconsistency due to faith in game having retrocasuality might be worthwhile.

scenic loom
#

I for one am glad half of Dazra blew up
dunno if my PC can handle a full city lol SLYKEK

daring lake
#

Well, yes. Although the Vortex modulators and interlocks may be considered as
components in the construction of The Unity. That said, there are two events that
that I find contradictory to the rest of the evidence..
The "Seer" having a dream that gives a location to a cave, and the player experience
when walking the Path of Redemption. More stuff to muse over I guess .....

wary sand
vagrant root
#

I can't be the only one that wished for us to flex on the Varuun in the dlc right?

Like

We ought to have been able to say straight to Anasko's face that he's an idiot and a pathetic imitation of true Starborn

daring lake
#

I opposed him and told him why, but the dialogue choices could have been more brutal, I agree.

high copper
#

"You're a stinky poo poo Anasko, I'm gonna kick your ass"

vagrant root
#

It'd be kinda cool if there was a timeline out there where he succeeded but the Emissary rallied most of the starborn in that universe to wreck him

daring lake
#

Well said Don 🙂

scenic loom
vagrant root
#

Serpent's crusade vs a Starborn armada

#

I really, really don't like the Varuun after shattered space tbh

There's only really two things I'd consider among the options in the game

Telling all of them that they're stupid and that varuun should die

Or putting house Vathal in charge so Vaeric would be speaker some day

high copper
#

since the emissary wants to teach about the unity and spread the message I wonder if there would be a starborn who is recruiting other starborn and branching out to do whatever in each universe

wary sand
#

I like Varuun. I can sympathize both to the persevering commitment and suffering caused by immutability of their faith.

high copper
#

I did brainstorm abit on a starborn who's goal is to end unity and remove evidence of it, so even if you agree and found a way to destroy the unity you're also left

vagrant root
#

I do wish that trying to become their leader was a thing

#

Surely if you display starborn powers and preach of the unity they'd eat that up

high copper
#

nah I think bethesda has moved away from letting the player become leader, at most they can get a high position

vagrant root
#

Actually

A starborn cult leader would be a cool concept

daring lake
vagrant root
#

No I mean

More Dune

Less nice

#

Aquilas could 100% be a messiah figure if he wanted

daring lake
#

It is the Hunter's motivation for wanting him killed imo

vagrant root
#

Aquilas is genuinely being nice and helpful is the thing... he never even uses or displays his powers

But if he did and he demanded that he'd be seen as a messiah figure..

wary sand
#

I would like to note another meta-narrative patter I observed about Aquilas:

#

His followers are called Universals and his upbringing is beyond mundane. I may speculate it is a reference or inspiration to IRL Baha’i Faith concept of prophets.

vagrant root
#

Do you think that after the point of the timeline where the game takes place, more people will become aware of the starborn?

What will the nations think of them?

scenic loom
#

as of right now, I think only Constellation will always be the ones who knows about them

wary sand
#

But they do cause so much collateral damage

#

Can’t blame it on Great Serpent in UC you know

high copper
#

I think he enjoyed that

wary sand
#

I enjoyed that as well. Especially with my mag rifle deleting the whole Well around .

#

But there is indeed a question why they are unknown force until player intervenes. The hunter vs emissary is no different and it is eternal

glacial arrow
high copper
vagrant root
#

I suppose it's a question of timescale?

When someone goes through the unity do they all reappear at the same point in time

#

Or do you appear at the same time you left?

glacial arrow
#

Clearly not, since every single Starborn alt-you have all been there longer than you.

vagrant root
#

So eventually centuries will pass

glacial arrow
#

You're the newcomer in every universe, no You's ever appear after you've hopped into a new universe.

vagrant root
#

I wonder
Can starborn appear in universes where the armillary has already been assembled

glacial arrow
#

Also, you have to keep in mind: the Hunter and Emissary have good reason to have never seen you make it. Because they didn't survive your victory.

vagrant root
#

Yup

wary sand
#

Player is the last starborn? A coincidence? A revelation?

vagrant root
#

No

glacial arrow
#

Of course they only ever saw you die, because you put an end to them under every other circumstance.

vagrant root
#

Not the first starborn
Not the last

You're one of an infinite amount

wary sand
glacial arrow
#

Yes, but at that point, they retire.

#

You don't meet those specific ones again, due to how Unity works

wary sand
#

Yeah, you are indeed correct. Makes sense.

vagrant root
#

Heh. Wonder what the Hunter would do

silk lotus
glacial arrow
#

The best way to describe it is that the Hunters and Emissaries you meet, are the ones who have so far avoided your wrath in the universes they've seen.

#

Hence why they've only seen you die.

#

They can't speak of your successes because they either retire or drop dead.

wary sand
#

But player sees himself die in the temple. So possibility of glimpse is there.

glacial arrow
vagrant root
#

It'd be cool if you could meet versions of them were you all just went through the unity together

wary sand
vagrant root
#

What would be the player's title? The Explorer?

glacial arrow
#

Speaking of Hunter and Emissary, just for laughs, I actually fought them the last time, just to revisit the boss battle.

stable steppe
#

Starfarer

wary sand
#

“Andreja, you see, this time we can’t be together. I know hunter for literal Eternity”

glacial arrow
#

I used a couple Quantum Essence for the extended fight and spammed Grav Wells literally everywhere laugh

stable steppe
#

Me telling andreja [romance] I could never leave you knowing full well I've already left her in multiple universes

glacial arrow
#

Hunter and Emissary didn't know what frickin hit them, we were warping maps so fast because of all the damage I was doing

vagrant root
#

It'd be cool if in a later expansion you could research and craft an item that would let you and your lover both go through the unity together and end up in the same universe

Quantum Entangled Wedding Bands

high copper
glacial arrow
wary sand
#

Tangential, remark: I find it peculiar how existence of Unity messes with the player(in meatspace). All those Reddit posts about grief of leaving their outposts and other material possessions behind Unity like they never just reformat the drive with their Skyrim when bored.

vagrant root
stable steppe
silk lotus
wary sand
#

It seems that consistent property of Unity is that the ones who go through can’t be reunited

#

So it is a divine shredder from the perspective of the one who don’t go.

#

Explains why Matteo chickened out. Blind faith of going though it is comparable to Varuun devotion tbh

stable steppe
#

Matteo is the most worthless & useless constellation character

#

Has nothing to contribute to the mission except "don't forget religion! What about religion? What if faith!"

vagrant root
#

Religion is important

glacial arrow
#

What was that? I can't hear you very well over the sound of immortality, power, and infinite universes. Sip

daring lake
wary sand
#

Matteo is great. I despised him at first, but has grown to respect.

vagrant root
daring lake
#

Within Constellation, only 1 other 🙂

stable steppe
vagrant root
#

Or a universum member

stable steppe
#

The religious aspects are some of the weakest points of the writing in-game. Just some little platitudes. I understand the respect they're paying with Aquilus' VA but his performance is terrible.

vagrant root
#

Religion is important, Neoth

stable steppe
#

The sanctum shower caps are SO Goofy, too. Can't take em seriously.

vagrant root
#

Wish I could get one for my character tbh

wary sand
#

Sanctum is great as well

vagrant root
#

When you encounter objects that give off readings that defy science

Better find a priest

wary sand
#

They look for the same thing as Varuun do in gravjumps but with completely different frame of reference

#

Starfield imo has the best religion-involving writing

#

On other note: it is peculiar how polarizing the game is on every facet.

vagrant root
stable steppe
scenic loom
vagrant root
# stable steppe

You'd think the same thing if you saw someone cast fireball irl

stable steppe
#

When I see things I don't understand, I don't turn to a priest.

vagrant root
#

You might not

near slate
stable steppe
#

No sunken place, thanks

daring lake
glacial arrow
#

Sip Now excuse me while I go re-enact the Boston Tea Party by yeeting the tea into the sea in protest.

near slate
silk lotus
#

So some people think that's their title compared to Hunter and emissary.

mossy cobalt
# stable steppe The sanctum shower caps are SO Goofy, too. Can't take em seriously.

They're based on the old NASA communication caps, AKA a "Snoopy cap". One of the SU sources (Gamal in Cydonia, I think) says something along the lines of encouraging believers to go out there and physically explore the universe because God is physically out there somewhere, or at least evidence of God's plan is, or something like that. So a symbolic element of early human space exploration does make sense considering their stance on things (it's from the same era as NASA first putting someone on the Moon, after all).

#

The "we're setting out into the universe and God is probably physically out there somewhere if we spread far enough" is actually a concept I found intriguing, as a belief system goes.

#

I get that ultimately the SU conception of God is based on the Unity, and I get that it's probably intended to get believers to stumble upon the Artifacts at the end of the day.

#

But as a stand-alone belief system I do find SU fairly believable overall.

stable steppe
mossy cobalt
wary sand
#

Hot take: Jinan is a kind of person to have violent panic attack on a plane. Doubles down. Works out.

rigid kiln
#

Blocked

wary sand
#

Regardless, I can only respect Cherilia’s devotion. Commendable.

scenic loom
#

she wanted to become Anasko's heir-maker One and only, so yeah

silk lotus
#

Gotta take some real devotion to f anasko.

rigid kiln
#

In less then 9 months we have a new va'ruun 🥰

hard salmon
#

RIP that kid's hairline when they get older

scenic loom
#

lmao

rigid kiln
#

Pretty sure it's a choice, both Jinan and Jarek had hair

scenic loom
#

or the vortex form removes them? sasihmmm

rigid kiln
#

No he has no hair in his normal form

scenic loom
#

he doesnt look that bad actually

rocky pond
#

Whos got good lore?

#

theres one youtube page that does it and its really bad production quality. really bad mic and jsut someone talking over screenshots.

manic igloo
wary sand
#

Companions may be monogamous but they hate this one starborn trick

silk lotus
#

I almost made it a goal to shag every member of constellation I can, but I backed off.

manic igloo
#

Serpent’s Embrace comes up a few times in the DLC in dialogue options but it’s not really integrated into the story in a way where it’s elaborated on. You can’t tell the people of Va’ruun’kai this is a faith you followed since childhood, it’s treated like you’re a new follower when folks respond to it. This could have been a prime opportunity to explore the faith, the lore you were taught, whether your protagonist is a child of people who converted prior to the War or is the scion of war veterans of the Serpent’s Crusade.

stable steppe
manic igloo
wary sand
#

I love empty planets, getting lost in their lack of purpose. Frames futility of human affairs and detached presence of Constellation told in quests really well(but it is a bit too much of them). But I mean polarizing in absolute sense. Like our back and forth about existence of GS. There is indeed some form of magic in SF narrative and structure.

scenic loom
#

i do enjoy the "idea" of being the only one walking around a barren moon or empty planet
something about that feels appealing to me

shame the base game doesnt do that and i need to use a mod to make that "feel" happen

daring lake
#

A mod? Just go to one of the systems that have no POI's in it

high copper
#

ahh but it's far too few

#

Mods like desolation have manmade poi's only in faction systems and a few exceptions

scenic loom
scenic loom
daring lake
#

Bardeen, Schrodinger and Katydid come to mind. There are some others.
Freya has just one POI, and that is Nishina, nothing on any of the other
planetary bodies.

scenic loom
#

guess ill give those a go

manic igloo
# wary sand I love empty planets, getting lost in their lack of purpose. Frames futility of ...

I think there are a number of things to appreciate about Starfield. The worlds are beautiful. I like the lore around the Great Serpent. Naeva doesn’t butter your butt. I can’t really jump on the bandwagon of those who hate the game. I can understand the frustrations of people like Matty after Shattered Space given my own frustrations over Serpent’s Embrace not leading to a different experience (via Malkavian in Bloodlines) as it feels too much like they watered Serpent’s Embrace down to make sure it follows the same path as players without the trait, but there is still a lot to appreciate about it.

hot summit
daring lake
high copper
scenic loom
#

no wonder people are upset with SS
its just space Aussieland potatoderp

daring lake
#

Heh, 🙂 - It was the unstable atmosphere that drew my interest.
Partly because I considered the possibility that Jinan had his "Aiza"
moment because the grav drive was one of the older design.

mossy cobalt
#

I doubt simply being an older design would do it

#

The vessel left from New Atlantis. The UC was already founded.

#

They put out a software update to all of the vessels while Aiza was still in charge.

#

I think all of that happened before the Exodus even started, let alone the founding of New Atlantis.

#

I can check what dates were on those logs. That was before 2150 though, I believe.

#

2149 was when they fixed it. That was over 40 years earlier.

daring lake
#

The Archimedes was one of the first batch of ships that left Sol. And there is evidence from
the Trackers "Starjacker" mission that older drives (or at least one) are still around.
Its not solid stuff, but enough to give me pause. 🙂

mossy cobalt
#

Right, that's just the thing though. They updated all of the drives.

#

Including the ones that already existed in 2149, before they even started building Exodus ships.

#

Also didn't it leave in like 2190? That's not one of the first ships to leave.

daring lake
#

Well, that does not mean that all the drives received the update.

mossy cobalt
#

Sorry though 😰 tone is hard to convey in text. I'm not trying to come off as harsh in dismissing it. I just think it goes against the story they were trying to tell with Aiza (he messed up specifically the experimental drives on Earth, not the ones that went to other places; everywhere else is safe, Earth is the only place that got messed up)

#

It looks like they didn't visit any other systems until after 2150. They definitely wouldn't have built the Archimedes before that.

daring lake
#

Earth was the only planet to experience multiple events with original
grav drive jumps. But they were already being used and being sent out
for exploration. If The Archimedes had an older, unfixed drive then
Va'ruun'Kai would be the only other planet known to have had multiple
exposures.
2141 was when they started proposing extra-solar expeditions, and it is
implied that this was well under way before 2149

mossy cobalt
#

Where is that implied? Are there other terminals on the topic?

#

The one I linked suggested that in 2141 there were proposals for an expedition to Alpha Centauri, but certainly New Atlantis didn't begin settling until 2156, and it's the earliest extrasolar colony I'm aware of.

#

The entry in 2149 where they talk about updating the drives also states "All that matters is building enough ships to get everyone off this planet. And we need to start now." which implies they haven't started interstellar production lines

daring lake
#

Making a colony and exploration don't have to happen at the same time though 🙂
"All those jumps from the moon .... " "Can the drives be fixed?" They did not seem
to be discussing a fix for test-bed craft.
Mass production of "exodus" craft is not needed for building the means to leave Sol.

mossy cobalt
#

They had experimental FTL drives and they were tinkering with the idea of an expedition in 2141, but humans didn't even explore there until the colonization wave started.

#

They started working on it in 2150 after it was announced. 2156 was the first result.

#

An M-class drive would be out of the question in 2149 based on what I'm seeing here. Even the experimental craft from early on got updated if I'm reading this right.

#

And, yes, based on how hard they freak out in that discussion I very much believe they fixed them, even before they made the announcement. If they didn't fix them then I'm pretty sure Dr. Tatienne would go so far as to scuttle them.

#

I just think the story they're telling goes out of its way to establish that no unfixed drives left the system.

daring lake
#

Ok. That general timeline leaves an awful lot of stuff out though.

mossy cobalt
#

So that would be a hard conflict on Archimedes being one of the pre-2150 drives.

#

I know it seems like I'm disputing a really insignificant detail of the lore but it feels like it's important for what they're saying about the world.

#

What happened to Earth was isolated. Having literally the flagship of the Serpent's Crusade fleet be one of the drives that destroyed Earth just seems like it would connect to way too important of a lore point.

#

Again, I'm really sorry if it comes across in text like I'm irritated or upset by the idea, I'm not, I just think the lore point is important so I feel like it has a lot of details to point out.

#

Lots of your points are really good in general.

#

I just don't like the idea of proposing that any of those drives left Sol, based on the way they've fenced their point about it.

daring lake
#

Jinan had his "experience" on a jump out of the Sol system according to what
the game tells us. And the chance that at least one of those drives survives
to the games present day is shown by the Starjacker's comment ..
" ... but don't take that ship, there is a reason we don't use those drives anymore"
So, all these little snippets set me to wonder about stuff 🙂

mossy cobalt
#

Well (and, again, I'm mentioning this just to explore the "pre-exodus" lore point, not to seem combative!) that terminal mentions a "'72" model, which would definitely not be a 2140s experimental drive. That sounds like it's just a shot at a drive that fails a lot. Probably a reference to the 1973 Ford Pinto, which had a reputation for literally exploding if it crashed wrong.

#

It was never publically announced that grav drives caused the destruction of Earth, so I also don't think it would've attracted a side comment from an outlaw ship mechanic.

mossy cobalt
#

I think someone else does mention getting sick when they grav jump though, so it does seem like it affects some people more than others

#

Although Jinan only had the one experience, based on what Anasko writes about it

#

I think the idea that Aurora might also cause glimpses of Unity or something like it (e.g. the Astral Lounge logo, BorealUS talking about the "harmonizing with the universe" and hearing music come from it, and so on) suggests that his jump experience might really have glimpsed Unity as well though; it would also explain part of why Keeper Aquilus encourages people to try looking for jump experiences as well

#

Sahima Ka'dic likewise said something that suggested that the Great Serpent could be their concept of Unity. She says something like "our understanding of the Vortex only makes sense if there's a greater being connected to it, and we believe that being is the Great Serpent" or something like that

mossy cobalt
#

Ah, I took screenshots of what she said, hold on

#

It's not letting me post them 🤦

#

I'll just type out what she said (keeping in mind her being a successful researcher of the Vortex!)

#

Player: "Scientifically, how would you describe the Great Serpent?":
Sahima Ka'dic: "Well, how would you describe dark matter? It's invisible, formless, not bound by the rules of electromagnetism. Yet without it, the universe cannot be explained. The motion of galaxies, the clusters and filaments, it all becomes a mystery when you remove this unknowable thing. The vortex of folded space is the same way. There are parts we understand, and parts that only make sense in the context of a greater being. That being is what we call the Great Serpent."

#

That sounds like it supports the idea that the Great Serpent is the Va'ruun concept of the Unity (or at least equivalent, even if it's somehow coincidental), certainly.

gusty cliff
#

Unity is very visible ngl

#

I think the dude was just hallucinating from warp sickness

mossy cobalt
#

I mean if Aurora can make you glimpse Unity I don't see why a grav jump hallucination might not touch on it as well, yeah

#

Oh I found one of the people who mentions some jump effects. It's Rosa from the New Atlantis HQ of Sanctum Universum.

#

"One simple jump, the same as I'd made dozens of time before, and... something touches me. Something warm and kind and good."

#

Guards in Cydonia can also say "space travel turns [their] stomach in knots" but that doesn't specify that it's the grav jump that has the effect

#

Either way it leaves open the idea that altered states of consciousness can "link" to Unity without an Artifact being directly involved.

#

If Jinan was having a particularly strong jump experience then he might've had an unusually clear vision of Unity floating right there in front of him. Might've been overcome by the impression that its circular appearance was much like a coiled snake.

wary sand
#

There is slate of Jinan having meltdown right after the experience btw

silk lotus
gilded flame
#

The vortex horrors coordinate too well with the Va'ruun phantoms and are too selective to simply be fauna. Then there's that second warp that happens, as if something was warping out of them. And their interests seem to closely follow those of the prophet and by extension the Great Serpent.

#

I think the great serpent can create subservient drones at the cost of their mind, and that that is what nearly happens with Jinan.

#

Akin to the crazy Starborn powers you have to go up against during the ending, a sort of a darker version of the Universals more directly controlled by its founder from across universes.

gilded flame
astral walrus
#

Quite the theory

rigid kiln
# silk lotus Where?

In 2190, the Archimedes, originally launched from New Atlantis, departed from Mars' orbit, vanishing without a trace. Completely cut off from the broader galactic community, the events that unfolded on the Archimedes can only be pieced together from the accounts of House Va'ruun, which are now steeped in religious imagery and mythic embellishments. According to their narratives, among the 346 settlers and crew members was a man named Jinan Va'ruun. Having suffered personal losses on Mars, including the deaths of his wife and son, Jinan sought a fresh start as far from the Solar System as possible. The idea of establishing a colony beyond Alpha Serpentis resonated with his longing to escape his past, But if the tales of House Va'ruun are to be trusted, Jinan ventured to a place even more remote, one that would transform him irrevocably. The Archimedes' journey progressed smoothly until the final jump that would take it well beyond the known reaches of space. Remarkably, the deep scans that directed their path proved accurate. In a far-off star system, they discovered a planet suitable for human habitation, but the journey had driven Jinan Va'ruun to madness. Upon completing the last jump, Jinan let out a scream that strained his vocal cords to their limits, continuing in a breathless silence until he lost consciousness. When he awoke, he was no longer the same man. He emerged confident, assertive, and exuding a compelling charisma, quickly becoming a pivotal figure among the colonists. Even in the face of the numerous challenges that accompanied the settlement of this unfamiliar frontier, he remained a reassuring and steadfast presence.

jaunty ginkgo
near slate
glacial arrow
#

There's something interesting I've noticed at a few points, too. It's almost like Starborn can exert a ... I don't know whether to call it mental influence or probability influence or what, but when dealing with humans, they can brute-force fated events to occur without needing to take certain intermediary steps.

#

And it's clear the humans they're dealing with are obviously being swayed somehow, but it's totally unclear what exactly is pushing their minds into agreement and how.

#

It's as if the infinite possibilities suddenly narrow to just one, and their mindset is forcibly bent to it, leaving them in a state of confusion.

#

Every time I see it happen, the human appears cooperative but in a very clear state of 'wtf is happening'

glacial arrow
#

Actually, if I think about it, the effect even works to a limited degree on other Starborn, because there's a single instance of it under certain circumstances.

silk lotus
#

I know other people have said similar things.

wary sand
#

Starborn suggestion is indeed feels to be explicitly written in such manner

mossy cobalt
rain radish
#

I used to be a UC member like you til I took a grav drive to the knee

grave ferry
#

So is the whole joke of the Astral Lounge that everyone there is so high off Aurora they don’t care that the club is lame? That’s actually hilarious if intentional.

grave drift
#

Earth's atmosphere got ripped apart during the grav drive testing on the Moon. If those drives can exert that much force on a stellar body and change it forever, imagine the impact it could have on one's mind. Feed the grav drive enough power and it could temporarily open a way to other dimensions. But with human mind it would leave a mark on them same as happened to Jinan in turn making them mad, unable to discern their reality from what they experienced. Same with all of the Starborn and them seemingly lacking emotions focusing solely on finding artifacts and getting to the next universe. As the definition goes " If You do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result - that's the definition of insanity "

daring lake
daring lake
wary sand
#

I would not be surprised if this whole ordeal is 4th wall breaking self reference. Whole game internals are eternalist in nature and some are seeded with that knowledge to self-prophecise.

#

While Unity-related iconography is Omega Point-adjacent, Varuun has directional cut smudge which with snek idiom is of oroboroic take on the idea.

agile turtle
wraith timber
#

question, in the starfield lore there is no "society of preservation of earth culture"?

high copper
wraith timber
daring lake
#

Only the living museum at New Homestead, which really only preserves the
memory of Earth culture.

glacial arrow
wraith timber
wraith timber
daring lake
#

None, really. Just the memory and the history.

wraith timber
#

a shame

#

but actually, would be fun if there is an actual museum and an actual society of preservation of human culture that is far more active unlike those pompous rich brats or the same Museum at New Homestead

#

this could suit well as a possible DLC about preserving earth culture and restore what we lost

wraith timber
#

Speaking of organize crime, the Space pirates and the Megacorp are the main one who spread crime in the main galaxy, but what about "Space Mafia"? We could have a crime syndicate with a code of honor and rules to follow and works as some sort of monarchy.

daring lake
#

That's Neon. Bayu is head of The Syndicate.

#

also ... which "Megacorp" ?

wraith timber
high copper
#

the syndicate can expand more, you fight them on a different planet during Sams Quest

wraith timber
#

true even that, but i found that a bit "unfinished" if you know what i mean.

glacial arrow
#

Oh right, speaking of, who runs the Trade Authority?

wraith timber
#

what happened?

analog junco
#

Spoiler it?

trim tendon
blissful cave
inland hare
#

how are med packs applied?

glacial arrow
#

Liberally thonk2

#

Pretty sure it's some kind of injector, maybe sound-based.

#

There's been a kind like that for years that uses I guess the vibrations caused by sound to push medicine through the skin.

high copper
inland hare
keen acorn
rigid kiln
#

Good morning zeaties

keen acorn
mossy cobalt
#

Regarding the Aurora-Unity connection, I just realized something else. Aside from Aurora, the only other non-Power way to get the slow time buff for a duration like that is through the "star heart" chem series (black hole heart, subgiant heart, hypergiant heart), and these literally contain caelumite.

#

I wonder if that chasm that the chasmbass presumably congregate in might have some kind of Creator stuff sunken at the bottom of it.

#

Aurora itself does have that sky blue tinge to it that a lot of Unity/Vortex/etc. stuff has

#

I had originally interpreted the connection as being related to altered states of consciousness; after all, grav drives no longer contain artifacts of any kind (only one of them ever did and that was decommissioned over 150 years prior to the game), and yet we have at least one in-game NPC who had a jump experience, and jump sickness in general is implied to be a thing.

#

But if grav drive tech can/does connect to the Vortex in some way, and artifacts likewise, then it seems plausible that maybe the chasmbass are picking up trace amounts of caelumite beneath the water somewhere, and that this makes Aurora a much more direct connection than I'd previously considered.

#

I'm still not 100% convinced that the altered consciousness thing is NOT the explanation. There's enough there to think that it might be. But the story they're telling with Aurora and with the other elements here does seem like it could dig back towards the Artifacts more directly.

daring lake
#

An interesting viewpoint. Although, how would you reconcile the addictive properties
of a psychotropic drug with the non-addictive (and non-psychotropic) Starborn chems?
Stuff can have similar effects without having a common source I guess.

silk lotus
#

Maybe the heart chems are just more refined/better made the Aurora which is made souly for getting people addicted and high.

#

And isn't chasing the unity said to be somewhat addicting? Also I'm the artifact themselves make you feel almost high I believe

mossy cobalt
# daring lake An interesting viewpoint. Although, how would you reconcile the addictive proper...

Hmm, that's interesting shortcoming of the concept. I would certainly admit that it's not airtight or bulletproof.
But, to continue exploring the Aurora + Unity, concept, Aurora itself isn't made just out of chasmbass oil. It also contains multiple other ingredients, including a "stimulant" ingredient component, which would presumably be rather addictive all on its own.
I suppose those additional consciousness-altering elements must unlock some additional capabilities that the chasmbass oil doesn't have in and of itself, making it more than the sum of its parts. (I guess that would point towards a sort of hybrid of the caelumite hypothesis and the altered consciousness hypothesis?)
Aurora is notably the only chem in the game (as far as I know?) that includes its own "hallucinogen" ingredient component. I wonder what we'd find out in-game if there were any others that we could make/use that had hallucinogenic effects. Right now Aurora is the only one anyone seems to use, so we don't know if it's the chasmbass oil component that enables BorealUS (and others, presumably) to "experience Unity", so to speak, or if on some level it's the hallucinogen component.

obsidian glade
#

Bottom line, Bayu’s Neon is basically a drug cartel and will be cleansed in the 2nd crusade. All Must Serve

mossy cobalt
#

I went under Neon to look at how chasmbass actually behave, and they're very chill, not aggressive like a fair amount of the Unity/Vortex/Starborn associated stuff has been. So, that might be another shortcoming.
A few of them do seem to just swim around near the surface under Neon, but that probably partially a game mechanics consideration, as we can't actually dive ourselves (to scan them, if they were only found much deeper).
The fishing boat next to the Xenofresh building under Neon does seem like it could be some kind of submersible, so the "chasm" thing does still seem to track.
Chasmbass (and their oil) do also seem to be blue, which does track with the "Artifact blue" theme.

mossy cobalt
obsidian glade
#

It’s a crusade , killing unbelievers is its own reward .

silk lotus
#

Hey it's more work for us trackers too

mossy cobalt
daring lake
#

If chasing the Unity is addictive in any way, it is clear from the Pilgrim's writings that
such an effect is not universal.

mossy cobalt
#

That's true. There also isn't an in-game addiction effect attached to our Unity interactions, the way there is for chems in-game. (Although sometimes there are lore aspects that aren't reflected in the mechanics, of course, such as ship ballistic weapons not needing ammo or us telling crew we pay a standard "salary" when we only pay them in-game once.)

#

Maybe there's some kind of "hero" aspect involved? The Emissary (although I don't consider them to be particularly heroic) doesn't seem addicted either, and very willingly delays entering the Unity if they're your ally. Maybe some people are more predisposed to a kind of "main character" level of relationship where they can more easily resist the effects.

keen spear
#

I think it's not so much reaching unity is the addictive part, it's the power that is. It's pretty common trope that power drives people into a mad addiction to acquire more, it doesn't help that they're basically only going towards unity instead of just living a life. It's become their only goal.

silk lotus
#

Maybe addiction is the wrong word, obsession perhaps? Maybe a compulsion?

glacial arrow
#

It's more than power. From what I can tell, it's almost certainly got a major impact on their lifespans, too.

gritty spoke
#

Question:

If Grav Drives are what is producing artificial gravity on spaceships, how did the ECS Constant have artificial gravity without the grav drive?

glacial arrow
#

Hunter's jumped thousands of times, which should take far longer than a human lifetime.

mossy cobalt
glacial arrow
#

I've got a few ideas on how their lifespans have been affected. A few of them are:
1-You're set to the age of a young adult
2-You're set to a time when you were in your prime
3-You're reset to the age you were when you last became Starborn

#

The last may be the most accurate, given how old the Hunter is.

mossy cobalt
#

Aquilus doesn't look like a young adult?

#

Ah I just saw the last one

#

Yeah I suspect Cora just waited until she was an adult to enter

glacial arrow
#

Cora waiting doesn't track

mossy cobalt
#

Ah, no?

glacial arrow
#

She specifically says that even though she'll be separated from everyone afterward, she still wants to go

#

Cora would absolutely yeet herself ahead of all of us if she had the chance

mossy cobalt
#

Right, but I doubt any of the adults who could boot up the entry process would take her at that age

glacial arrow
#

Sam specifically says he's taking her with him

mossy cobalt
#

Even after her dad dies (which is apparently her canonical Starborn timeline)

mossy cobalt
glacial arrow
#

He goes at the same time you do. It pulls you all in.

mossy cobalt
#

But when you turn away it turns out they ALL also turned away

glacial arrow
#

They all got yanked out*

mossy cobalt
#

It's been a while since I talked to them about it but I thought they all gave reasons?

glacial arrow
#

Their departure is tied to yours, lorewise we're not entirely sure why

#

Probably because you are the holder of the Armillary

mossy cobalt
#

I don't think that's true. The Hunter goes through even if you turn away.

#

Even though you built the Armillary

glacial arrow
#

I haven't ever sided with either, so I might be missing something

mossy cobalt
#

I feel like the companions gave reasons for turning away? Not getting yanked out?

glacial arrow
#

I remember they were surprised to find themselves back in the universe.

mossy cobalt
#

Oh, hmm

glacial arrow
#

The Hunter may not be tied to you, either.

#

It seems the members of Constellation have a sort of shared fate going on

#

Which is realistically probably for gameplay purposes so you don't lose companions or quests...

#

...but lorewise, it seems them going is tied to your decision, they can't unless you do.

mossy cobalt
glacial arrow
#

I remember surprise that they found themselves back in their own reality, but not any specifics.

mossy cobalt
#

It seems voluntary based on this person's dialogue choices

#

Although they don't have Barrett (must be their first universe)

#

I had it start right when Andreja is saying she voluntarily didn't enter (7:09 in case it doesn't start there for you)

keen spear
#

Imma be real, I had no clue you could walk away from unity

steady acorn
#

Yep! I did at first. Then made a manual save and went through. I wanted to go through but also not lose my first universe. 😛

jaunty ginkgo
#

This is a genuine question, did the Other You telling you that you can just turn away until the stars fade and you return to your ship makes you not realise "I can just refuse this" or did you think it's simply a different ending with no way to just stay and play in that universe?

high copper
faint cave
#

I wish we could say to Cora and Sam that we'll wait for her to grow up and gain more skills before we enter the Unity. It's not like it's going anywhere.

mossy cobalt
#

Well, if you visit Unity with the Hunter and turn away, he leaves for his next universe but you return to your ship and the Armillary is still there

#

So presumably if you turn away from the Unity, all the Constellation members (and other crew) who didn't enter get your ship and the Armillary

#

So Sam can certainly just chill and keep your ship around until Cora is a fully functioning adult

#

The only reason the Emissary is fighting so hard to be the one to collect the Artifacts is because they want to control who enters and especially don't want the Hunter to reach the Unity. The Armillary itself can be used by any number of people, it doesn't suddenly vanish from existence when someone goes through.

slate valley
#

I've said it before. The armillary is on your ship - which remains where you did that last jump - and will remain there unless Vasko is onboard, I assume Vasko returns to NA and the lodge where the remaining members know to disasemble the armillary. If not, your ship is drifting empty waiting to be found by some unsuspecting space farer. I imagine that persons surprise when they power up the grav drive on the derelict but fully operational ship.

mossy cobalt
#

Vasco would remain certainly, but so would any of them who decide to turn away from the Unity. Andreja for example willingly walks away from the Unity (and discusses this with you if you choose to walk away yourself), and if she's your spouse then the Unity tells you she "eventually chooses to be reborn herself", not immediately.

slate valley
#

That too. But only if they are on your ship as well when you jump. I've got the sh*ts with constellation a few times and dismissed them all as crew, then jumped alone many times. Taking none of them with me.

mossy cobalt
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True. It probably would just drift if you're the only one on the ship (or just you and VASCO)

#

Can VASCO take a ship back to New Atlantis himself?

slate valley
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Well, Vasco is programmed to pilot the ship home. Like he does in all the alternate universes

mossy cobalt
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Oh well that answers my question

#

Did they say that? I can't remember distinctly

slate valley
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When you NG+ and get a vanilla universe. Going to the lodge you find Vasco there having already delivered the artifact and Sarah ask what you are doing there. Vasco confirms you are the lost miner who disapeared.

mossy cobalt
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Oh neat, I've been in my current universe for months so I forgot that was the Lodge conversation

#

I wonder why he doesn't offer to pilot you home in the first universe

#

I mean I know from a gameplay standpoint we wouldn't actually have him fly us to the Lodge in any case

slate valley
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Gameplay tutorial on flying and space combat

mossy cobalt
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But in-universe I feel like that would be an important consideration

#

Right that's what I mean by the gameplay thing

#

But VASCO doesn't know if we have some kind of problem with flying and really shouldn't do so ourselves

slate valley
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It's standard BGS introduction to the game tutorial.

mossy cobalt
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I know, I know, this is #starfield-lore though, I'm asking about the in-universe justification

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I feel like it would make sense for him to offer, even if in-game we can't accept that offer.

slate valley
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Excuse me moderator - you deleted a post that contained a common English NAME. No swearing at all - apologise.

mossy cobalt
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Hah that happened to me in here last week

#

"Dyno: Watch your language" and I was like... what was the language that caught the filter??

plain swan
mossy cobalt
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Is that word listed somewhere so we know to avoid using it? (I'm not disputing the rule, I just don't want to lose another 50-word message because I caught the filter by accident 😰)

#

Uh, also just to be clear, I'm not being coy, I have no idea what word caught the filter

#

If we can't do that I understand though!

plain swan
mossy cobalt
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Fair enough. I appreciate you responding on it!

wise smelt
#

Is cloning still practiced in the settled systems? Or is the practice banned during the time we play it? I find old abandoned labs but...

high copper
glacial arrow
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Cloning isn't banned, just a really rare tech. It's not something that's being researched by the factions outside of a certain situation, far as I recall.

keen spear
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There's also just no real reason to do cloning outside of like eugenics stuff that doesn't actually work out. It's also cloning doesn't make an exact copy of a person so it's still not viable

keen acorn
# keen spear There's also just no real reason to do cloning outside of like eugenics stuff th...

Well in Starfield there is one planet with clones of historical people. If they die. A new clone comes to life. No scientists are on the planet directly monitoring. They imprinted memories into them related to the historical individual they are. So it is interesting and these clones come out exact replicas. Cloning was done for UC of officers in case they died, but they were not necessarily the same gender, indicating it was a different cloning process in the UC. So Bethesda threw in a few curves for cloning into Starfield.

keen spear
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tbf the cloning on that colony was most likely they found people with direct ties to the historical characters and then just brainwashed the clones into thinking they were those people. Like the depiction of Ghengis Khan is so incredibly off from how he actually was, which there's a decent amount of records showing who he really was.

Starfield's is the bland western version of a ruthless conqueror when in reality he was a brilliant statesmen that did actually a lot of good.

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But I doubt actual DNA survived that long for several of the characters on that colony.

#

Even the Ghengis clone legit says he doubt he is actually a direct clone

keen acorn
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Ghengis Kahn was an interesting true life individual. They found remains of Asians 20,000 years old with valid DNA. One they figured out the hair was blond, everyone else in the area had black hair. in real life. So never know. But with cloning They know genetic manipulation. Its being done in labs now a days in 2024.

#

There is enough writing from Ghengis Khans era to program a memory. Its a program they imprint on the clones. not the actual memories for sure. Who knows what the original intent was on that one planet.

silk lotus
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They could go full assassins creed with genetic memory if the wanted too.

jaunty ginkgo
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Those enclosed fish bowls, is the fish real?

mossy cobalt
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As for if it's a real Earth species, I have no idea. Could be an alien one though. (The fish on Neon certainly look reminiscent of Earth fish even though they're not an Earth species.)

azure sluice
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@clear talon

hushed venture
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Hello👋

keen acorn
scenic loom
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Is the name Va'ruun of a particular ethnicity on earth?
even with the accents, its kinda hard to tell

mossy cobalt
# scenic loom Is the name Va'ruun of a particular ethnicity on earth? even with the accents, i...

I'm just one person, but it looks like nobody else has thrown a perspective in on this one so I'll give mine. From the standpoint of reading author intentions, I took it as not being intended to represent any particular Earth ethnicity; plausibly even Jinan and his close advisors developing an entirely new constructed language to represent the fact that everyone was joining a brand new culture that they were forming. Most of the settlement efforts we've seen depicted seem to have been composed of a variety of different ethnic origins traveling together to escape Earth and/or create new viable settlements, so even the initial cultural environment of Dazra would've been relatively unique from the other major settlements no matter what Jinan's personal origins were (other than if the overall demographics matched up exactly to New Atlantis or Akila or so on, which seems astronomically unlikely), but a number real-world of religions have also made a point of taking active steps to set themselves apart culturally from their neighbors; we see this reflected in some other religious material in existing Bethesda IPs as well, notably the history of the Dunmer settling Morrowind.

#

I suspect the surnames themselves might be constructed (or from the new language they used, if it's a constructed language itself); the dialogue points out "Jinan, in his wisdom, shepherded the first of us into families, that we might grow and prosper." - in other words, the families don't seem like they're meant to directly descend from any particular predecessors, so if they were entirely new then Jinan might have selected their names on his own (or the new house heads might have named them using the new language; they do all seem to follow the "apostrophe scheme" of so many other Va'ruun words, certainly)

#

A lot of first names do seem to be inherited from various Earth cultures though, so I suspect this mainly extended to the surnames

#

I think the Citadel slates make clear that his name was already Jinan before they reached Dazra, for example, although I don't recall them mentioning a family name during that period of time (although maybe they did and I just don't recall it right now)

scenic loom
# mossy cobalt A lot of first names do seem to be inherited from various Earth cultures though,...

good point, i figured the names of and under the Va'ruun is most likely created after Jinan took over
just wondered if such names are earth-originated coz I dont think they say so but you never know

So its possible the naming of Va'ruun and the other houses and whoever else under the Va'ruun were all "created" after Jinan was given full control after the early settlers council of Dazra disbanded

mossy cobalt
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Yeah, I don't think there's anything conclusively settling it in one way or the other, but the Morrowind style "we're different and this is one way we show that to the world" thing does seem fairly likely.

scenic loom
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yep, pretty much

tawdry venture
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I have a question related to the exodus of earth, but is there anything that would rule out other city sized human settlements from being formed outside the ones already ingame?

astral walrus
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I forget the exact treaty but the FC & UC agreed to not expand to any others systems how ever that shouldn't stop them from building more settlements on the planets they currently occupy

tawdry venture
astral walrus
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if you visit the orientation hall in Mast, click on each "button" to hear the various background, treaties and incidents regarding the FC, UC and House Va'ruun

tawdry venture
daring lake
# tawdry venture I have a question related to the exodus of earth, but is there anything that wou...

Billions perished when the Earth fell. The game gives no details on the numbers other
than that, but the general implied theme is that most folk did not make it off world.
As for the limitation of city setlements, the Centaurus Proclamation gave everyone
the right to settle/colonise and form their own sovereign powers.
The Narion Treaty, which came after, limits the FC and UC to their current systems.

rigid kiln
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Only accursed were lost 🤷‍♀️

mossy cobalt
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Hmm, no doctrine of invincible ignorance in Va'ruun theology? 🤔

#

(mainly joking in asking that; I'm pretty sure the Shrouding concept leaves little room for those who haven't joined House Va'ruun, but I'd genuinely be curious to hear their position on what happened to those who died before 2230, which is the first time HV began to accept converts from people outside of Dazra)

keen acorn
tardy hazel
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I know what happens to earth, will not spoiler it. but i wonder what was earth abotu 1900 to 2100 in the starfield universe? i do not see much lore there. Can someone point to me what happens there? fallout timeline, other timeline? What was up 2000-2100?

gray dune