starfield-lore

[daring lake]

Yeah ... that's not really a plothole.

[leaden gale]

Again, the only temple that is in the same place in all universes is the underground one i don't remember the name of. That he """always finds the things""" is just left over plotholium. like how the plot has the hunter brag about killing your friends, or gives you the option to talk about your friend dying, even if you saved them.

[fallen kiln]

But I still don't see how that gets a lost colony from "my father would have known how to repair this" to "We will tattoo out faces with the sacred circles form the Temple" and still leave time for the Pilgrim to live among them, write it up and leave the notes in Pilgrim's Rest

[leaden gale]

There's a reason the story has you skip going to follow the pilgrim's steps if you choose to do so. because then bethesda has to have umpteen different texts.

[fallen kiln]

Or: it's a stable part of the time loop. Like the Emissary and Hunter always meeting before the confrontation at the buried temple. Some things change, some repeat.

[undone nacelle]

Cults my dear Watson, pick any irl cult and that's pretty much the same

[fallen kiln]

That's not the vibe I get from his writing though. If he'd found a bunch of contemporary poseurs cosplaying as tribesmen from Planet Ungawa!, I reckon the tone of his writings would be different. "We never create, we only take"

[undone nacelle]

Waco went to having slightly different beliefs to anti government

Heavens gate when from space worship to mass death

Same with Georgetown

[fallen kiln]

Not saying it couldn't happen, but I don't think the Pilgrim belived that was what happened. And is it not less contrived to posit that the event was from Earth's history and there's part of the story only foreshadowed by these drawings?

[fallen kiln]

There is. Why would I go there if I already know where the puzzle leads because I've lived it before?

[undone nacelle]

For fun and to find details you missed last time

[fallen kiln]

That's fine Sir Arthur, but from a Watsonian perspective?

[leaden gale]

Why do you always treat the collector guy as if you're in your first universe?

Again, bethesda's lazy writing.

[undone nacelle]

You get thousands of lives, why not use them to learn mor about what the starborn are what where they came from

[fallen kiln]

Because development time is limited and the number of potential lines is infinite

[fallen kiln]

Why not give the player the option? Oops! They did!

[leaden gale]

Yeah. Exactly.

[undone nacelle]

Not necessarily lazy writing, just playing it out, imagine going to the united colonies and telling the the warlord in the basement is using plants to cause terrormorph attacks

They'd lock you up on the spot

[leaden gale]

You misunderstand. At the end of the game you warp through universes. you always see captain hoarder. you always treat captain hoarder like it's your first universe. iirc you can't even kill him before talking to him.

[fallen kiln]

Not true. One of the options is to apologize for robbing him

[leaden gale]

You ALWAYS have that line in your first universe.
I used it in my first universe.

[undone nacelle]

Or "I'm here to get the artifact off your ship by ang means necessary" and be executed by the crew

Or "boo, just jumped through space and time in the middle for a fire fight for a quick chat"

[fallen kiln]

So what's your point? I'm missing something.

[leaden gale]

Dude by your sixth universe you're a veritable god. his crew attacks you no matter what you say or do, anyway.

[undone nacelle]

ALSO your not talking to him, your talking to the unity

[leaden gale]

it's one thing amongst many that never changes because bethesda didn't add any differences to it betwee universes. i am saying the pilgrim's journals are the same kind of thing.

[fallen kiln]

And I'm saying that we can't tell the difference between a loose end left to foreshadow a forthcoming DLC and a plot hole that will never be filled. Not at this stage in the story, It's a bit early to be crying "Plot hole! Lazy writing!" is my point.

[undone nacelle]

There's hard to find text that state the starborn aren't meant to use our powers for war but to protect the universe itself, the unity tells you you don't deserve your powers and attacks you

That's why I wish I could destroy the artifacts and stop anybody from going through the unity

[leaden gale]

We can because bethesda leaves additional plot points to be filled. EG: you find out about the pilgrim from multiple different sources. varuun lady, the pentecostal that the pilgrim decided to become, the pilrgrim's journals, the atheists.

where is the extra information that confirms that the pilgrim finds the same things in every universe? it's always the same exact text. Every single time.

[undone nacelle]

I wonder if the va'ruun have anything to do with the unity

[leaden gale]

i would presume so, given that the serpent claims to have made this universe ||and may actually be victor aiza.||

[fallen kiln]

We know the Pilgrim finds the primitive village with temple every time, because his writings documenting the event are always there, is my point.
As for the stories the Pilgrim gave the Va'ruun and the Enlightened - like I say, some patterns always repeat, at least within our limited experience of the Unity

[undone nacelle]

What if og va'ruun are part of the temple village

[leaden gale]

it is the ONLY evidence that bethesda offers. they do not add additional points of evidence to support the idea that it's always true.

you're essentially saying the bear of markarth is true because the book exists.

[fallen kiln]

I think Jinan Va'ruun was Starborn. Not convinced we've met him yet, though. They may be holding him for a big bad in Shattered Space

[undone nacelle]

I hope shattered space is good

[leaden gale]

house varuun is extremely recent.

[undone nacelle]

Hm

[fallen kiln]

OK. I am not ruling out that possibility that the Pilgrim is telling lies in his writings. Although I cannot fathom why he would wish to do so. At least with the Bear of Markarth there's a fairly clear reason why the author might want to spread "fake news"

[undone nacelle]

I unfortunately have to go to work, yall have a nice day

[fallen kiln]

You too 🙂

[leaden gale]

same. i need a traditional bethesda experience and i'm so scared it won't be one.

[fallen kiln]

It does sound as though that's what they're going for.

I worry a little that it's going to be like Morrowind where we went from a vast (for the time) open world to having everything confined to one city, albeit a large one

But yeah, I want it to be good. This Creations flap has used up most of my goodwill and patience.

"They had discovered the temples on their own. Generations of their people grew up around the structure".

So if we say that a "generation" is 30 years, 200 years leaves time for what? Six of them? And the Pilgrim hs to find then after theyv'e reverted, had generations pass and still have time to write it up and leave the notes at Pilgrim's Rest for someone to find long enough later for the paper to turn yellow

[slate valley]

Our ordinary paper turns yellow in a generation.

[fallen kiln]

OK. So that's five left. Allow one for them to forget the science they used to know. They get what, three generations to build up a culture around the temple. That's like from the 1960s to now.

[undone nacelle]

Does the temple have kool-aid

[fallen kiln]

You tell me : https://www.reddit.com/gallery/18im7u1

[peak halo]

Three space wars actually (Narion War, Serpents Crusade, Colony War).
The Va'ruun were one of the earlier colonies, they just jumped much farther out. They are only a fairly recent player because they only fairly recently returned to the settled systems. And with shattered space, we will see why they retreated once again.

What did I get wrong, Oh Great Snake Mistress

[rigid kiln]

Jinan met the serpent in 2190 during a jump from the sol system, they revealed themselves in 2230 with their flagship the mourning and the crusade was 10 year later in 2240, I wouldn't say 90 years is fairly recent but then again in the grand scheme of time it would be I guess

[peak halo]

I actually thought they revealed themselves later than that, serpents was before or after Narion?

[rigid kiln]

2196

So house va'ruun was founded before the war but they revealed themselves after

[undone nacelle]

Hm

[quartz flicker]

Maybe the skek is mother of heatleeches?

[faint cave]

Were the Varuun that much more powerful than the UC and Freestar that they were able to fight both at once for years and years?

[daring lake]

You can't attack someone if you don't know where they are 🙂
The general area of "Va'ruun space" seems to be known, but not the location
of the homeworld.
Even now, Zealots have attacked a space station in Alpha Centauri. So the
attacks during the crusade would have been difficult to protect against I think.

[silk lotus]

Maybe they could have won the crusade if it wasn't due to their change in leadership. Maybe there was a civil war or conflict brewing all the way back then

Resulting in the split between zealots and the not.

[static sky]

Pilgrim lead you to a scorpio, hunter ship is the scorpio

[fallen kiln]

Sure. But how do you get from there to "I think I'll invent a story about living with a native tribe that had lived for generations in a village built around a Starborn Temple"?

[static sky]

I just remembered the scorpio thing

Idk if he lies, could be the truth. Pilgrim doesn’t have to be the first starborn

[static sky]

We also don’t know who built the temples

[fallen kiln]

It's an interesting point, I must admit. Why would the Pilgrim leave a clue to a clue to the Hunter/Emissary meeting place? It seems odd regardless of whether he's the Hunter or not

[fallen kiln]

Well exactly! Because reading those notes makes it sound like this was on Earth somewhere

Of course, if Earth had a temple and an artifact, that might explain where Sebastian Banks found the first artifact...

[static sky]

I, imo, like to think, victor / hunter / pilgrim / keeper are the same person, in that order, kinda like kang.

[static sky]

Victor found one

[fallen kiln]

I like that idea too. I'm just not sure how to reconcile it with some of the Pilgrim's drawings and notes.

[static sky]

I don’t remember, but i don’t think the one found by victor was on earth ?

[fallen kiln]

Unless there's time travel. Or unless the Pilgrim didn't make the notes at all, but found some documents from a much earlier Starborn who we've not yet encounterd

[static sky]

Victor show the artifact allow not only universe travel but also time travel

[fallen kiln]

Victor's came from Mars .Which doesn't have a temple. so they needn't be paired on the same planet, I guess

How so time travel?

[static sky]

Really ? He’s not from earth ?

[static sky]

He had a vision of the future, of new atlantis

[fallen kiln]

Victor's artifact came from Mars

[static sky]

And the destruction of earth

[cobalt saffron]

Victors log talks of how he met himself

[static sky]

Oh, yeah, he got it from space, i remembered correctly

[fallen kiln]

Did he? Or did his other self spin him the story of a city in space - a metaphorical vision

[cobalt saffron]

At some point, vicotr became starborn, travelled back in time using the unity and gave himself the information needed to develop grav drive technology

[static sky]

Yeah, from the future. That showed him new atlantis. I think victor met the hunter, or any other version of him (pilgrim / keeper), probably hunter because others would have stopped the destruction of earth

[cobalt saffron]

The unity allows time travel

[static sky]

This what i think too

[static sky]

In the same universe ?

[fallen kiln]

I mean if that's time travel, then so is the player telling Vlad that the Unity isn't worth the sacrifice - or whatever you usually tell him

[jaunty ginkgo]

I remember it being more of a promise of "imagine with the grav drive mankind could settle the stars, build cities on multiple worlds", etc.

[static sky]

I remember it as seeing new atlantis

[cobalt saffron]

He was shown something about a large city around a distant star

[static sky]

You meet yourself in the unity. If that « unity as you » is all-powerful, it could show the future.

[cobalt saffron]

thats all his log says

[static sky]

Made me feel like he talked about new atlantis

Also, depending of the language you played in, the logs / notes might be slightly different

Which could lead to different interpretation

[fallen kiln]

September 8, 2160

My name is Doctor Victor Aiza, and if you're listening to this, then you probably already know the truth. I was young when I first headed the retrieval team of an odd gravitational anomaly on Mars, but I kept what really happened that day hidden from everyone except... one other person. Even she didn't believe me at first, but I have no reason to lie to anyone now, so I hope you'll accept this... confession, whoever you are.

When I touched the anomaly, I experienced 12 days of lost time. I met... myself. He told me everything that has since come true. The Grav Drive equations. The tests on the Moon. Earth's atmosphere sputtering away because of what we had done. But he also told me about a city, thriving on a planet orbiting a distant star. Human culture, art, music, lifestyles evolving and shining brightly across all of space.

What price would I be willing to pay for that future?

Maybe you don't believe me. Maybe Judith was right, and I'm just a coward who wants to believe his mistakes were justified. But everyone has forgotten about the real origins of the Grav Drive. This... Artifact, from Mars.

I hope you make better use of it than I did.

https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Starfield:NASA_Research_Computer

So it's clearly "he told" rather than "I saw"

[static sky]

Yeah, « told » not « imagine »

And the « himself » also knew about victor future, about test on moon & destruction of earth

So, someone from the future, or some who can see it.

[cobalt saffron]

Implying that the whole thing is a causal loop

[fallen kiln]

Someone from a possible future in an alternative universe

[cobalt saffron]

its already happened, therfore it will always happen

[fallen kiln]

Well, no. If vision-Victor is Starborn then there had to be a Victor who wasn't and for who the vision didn't happen. And if it's the Unity meddling, then we don't know if it might decide to stop

[faint cave]

That's true. It's possible they engaged in extensive guerilla warfare instead of facing both the UC and Freestar head on. The casualties during the Crusade were high, but it took place over two decades as opposed to the equally bloody but much shorter Colony War.

[fallen kiln]

@cobalt saffron - I approve of your avatar

[cobalt saffron]

Heh, I can't afford to ever change it, as the source of it no longer exists

[fallen kiln]

Did they take the site down? It was looping repeats forever

[cobalt saffron]

Yeah, userfriendly.org

[fallen kiln]

Damn shame that had to end. Far and away the best geek cartoons of its era

[cobalt saffron]

very few recognise dustpuppy now, it always had such a niche audience as it was

[fallen kiln]

Yeah. Deserved wider.

Oh well, I have to scoot. Talk to you all later!

[karmic gale]

So let me get this straight, the whole Victor's method of grav drive to force humanity to abandon earth was unnecessary, and it definitely didn't need the push. They were able to fix the grav drive and could have done so sooner if Vic confessed so we know that the main point was to give people no other option. With the grav drives humanity would of gone out and done what it did just Victor wanted to live out his fantasy as we see he is bored with just sending out satelities and things like that. Another thing is the future in starfield isn't some utopia people are suffering still so, the sacrifice of the planet and people was unnecessary because so what if we go out into the stars a bit faster. The problem with that thinking is, that obviously it is possible for the grav drive to be made save, considering that they use them all the time, and no planet shares the fate of Earth.
Also obviously, the Dr. Aiza from the future knew how to do it. He provided the equation after all, and it take them just a little modification to make it save. So there was no reason to include that modification from the get go, keep Earth alive and still have the grav drive and the whole settled systems available. Victor was selfish and robbed humanity of that choice which is messed up. Victor played god arrogantly and though has good intentions for the survival of the human race, he didn't have to do it at a cost of Earth and her histories. If Earth is destined to be destroyed, then it will be destroyed on its own without some scientist to decide the fate for humanity.

[safe kite]

Pretty much. Aiza isn't a saint and had his own motivations.

[karmic gale]

That means he's committed the greatest crime against humanity, and that is not saving humanity, it's robbing humanity of their choice and their identity of Earth and their history.

[safe kite]

Kinda debating air after a while though. We can say that the settled systems would have happened without destroying earth, by just providing working grav drives, but it's a guess either way. Would the UC have formed if there wasn't an existential crisis that needed solving by colonizing systems asap?

Likely not in Aizas lifetime.

[karmic gale]

Maybe it would've formed into the United Earth Colonies.

[safe kite]

I don't think the game paints Aiza as a good person. At best complicit in genocide.

[karmic gale]

Or the Unified Earth Government.

[karmic gale]

Yes. No argument from me.

Imagine if we get to restore earth somehow, and we the Spacefarer get to yet have another alias. For Starborn or Explorer or Adventurer, what if we have the title of "Reclaimer"?

Spacefarer, Hunter, explorer, adventurer, ranger, Starborn, now, what if we would have the title of reclaimer? That we could somehow get to reclaim earth and our history?

[high copper]

Dusty is the best title

[safe kite]

Liiiiiiin

[jaunty ginkgo]

I've always preferred Dusty 👌

[cobalt saffron]

out of lore, it was just impractical for the devs to even attempt to create earth as it actually is in game. The engine cannot handle it, so the devs had to come up with a way of making earth a ruined planet

Theres not a game on console with massive cities

Because the xbox cannot handle it.

Remember, the primary platform for this game is Xbox Series S

Also, (so I was readin a few days ago), the creation engine is still a 32 bit engine

[safe kite]

It doesn't really make sense that the Earth is the way it is, given Cydonia is a thing and there's a ton of expansive outposts on planets and moons without an atmosphere. Even if the events played out as they did in lore, there would be hundreds of holdouts that dug in underground with Cydonia-esque cities.

But yeah, sidestepping the Earth entirely was necessary to get the game to work at all, so here we are.

Would've been cool to see some slum domes on Earth with the remnants of humanity who couldnt make it off the planet in time.

[cobalt saffron]

Oh we definitely should have had some underground airlocked settlements akin to cydonia but maybe on a slightly larger scale

Maybe a small domed settlement or two

[safe kite]

Can always retcon that in later if they really wanted to, but I doubt they will want to touch it. So, a bit of suspension of disbelief is required.

[cobalt saffron]

I wouldn't put it beyond them to create a DLC where we discover a "lost" underground settlement on Earth

[safe kite]

New New York

Heck, I'd settle for some survivalist types who built bunkers and cut contact.

[high copper]

I believe they can handle large cities it’s what happens within the cities they’ll have issues, they aren’t gonna be full of life and unique things happening all over and full radiant mechanics for npcs if they go for an actual large city, post apocalyptic ones worked cause they were a area within the map and was destroyed

[karmic gale]

I wish we get to see earth animals on Starfield.

[last ermine]

Cyberpunk 2077 works fine on Xbox, I think starfield could possibly do what they do and just de-load NPCs or something

[cobalt saffron]

2077 has a lot of fake buildings in it, where they are nothing more than a facade; when Bethesda build cities, most buildings have an interior that loads as part of the map and aren't instanced. Thats what takes the extra memory. Its why downtown boston on FO4 crawls.

[last ermine]

I will give you that a lot of buildings are fake in 2077, they still could have possibly done something as from what I’ve noticed a good portion of city building interiors are in their own areas (important ones, anyway)

I just think making cities more immersive was a possibility, and no matter what would be better that something like new Atlantis, the capital of the UC, feeling like a small outdoor mall, especially when you take into account how big londinium feels from what you see

[indigo nymph]

Earth is the way it is in Starfield mainly for brand reasons. Fallout is the brand that people think of when they think of Earth as a wasteland with settlements underground. If Bethesda had done that with Earth in Starfield then they'd never get rid of the "Fallout in space" association

[hard salmon]

I still wish they didn't go with the name "Starborn" lol

[solemn bough]

KISS. Keep it simple stupid

[static sky]

Dragonborn, starborn

[static sky]

I call it skyrim in space

[silk lotus]

Name makes sense though. We see the unity appear as a star and a born anew from it.

Or at least the unity looks like a story of star to me.

[daring lake]

Late response, sorry; Balmor mentions the "devastating losses" suffered by House Va'ruun due to
the crusade. It seems that they sued for peace because they were close to extinction.

[safe kite]

Their religion wrote checks their society couldn't cash.

[daring lake]

^

[safe kite]

Zealots are persona non grata to the rest of Va'ruun society, are they not?

(As of the base game, at least)

[daring lake]

Exiles? Yes. But they have support within the council it seems.

[silk lotus]

As I said their leaders are split into the zealots and non zealots most likely.

[daring lake]

Yes. But also No. 🙂 The end of the crusade was needed in order to preserve the Va'ruun.
But internal politics and all that is implied by that is clearly stated by the Va'ruun Captain
in Andreja's quest and all but admitted to by Tomisar.

[static sky]

Lmao

[static sky]

The pilgrim : https://www.instagram.com/p/C_PIyx-hXPl/?igsh=cmFncnU5amZjNHg0

[obsidian glade]

Zealots can continue the cleansing of non believers with plausible deniability so they are indeed useful

[fallen kiln]

The question is: who was the Victor that appeared to Aiza in his artifact vision? If it was another Victor, a Starborn one, then that Victor could have lived through a timeline where he didn't sabotage the drive, and where he saw the consequences of giving Humanity that choice. Depending on what he saw, he may have ha good reasons for persuading his younger self to such a terrible course of action

[obsidian glade]

from our perspective, we experiance a very small window in time. Like groundhog day. but what if the Unity spit you out in a time when man could barely leave Earth? or even worse a pre-industrial society. what would you do to reach the Unity again? sacrifice Earth?

[static sky]

Unity feels like a drug to some, and they’d do anything to reach unity again

[silk lotus]

I wonder if becoming a starborn can be defined as a sort of reincarnation. Perhaps reincarnating into another universe?

[leaden gale]

You don't reincarnate at all. You do not respawn. You are cloned.

Each time you enter, you're cloned multiple times. Remember: You are the first you to have ever become Starborn. Eventually you will meet another you who has become a dillhole. They will be Venator. You will (probably) not.

[faint cave]

I would call them Starforged...but there's already a (dead) game with that name, plus a prebuilt PC making company

[dreamy halo]

You can become venator just Ng+ 10

[leaden gale]

yeah and you can get that random universe before you reach venator.
I did.

[novel sparrow]

Does the lock/the key’s existence break the Narion treaty?

[cobalt saffron]

no, because it was not used to house PoW's. Its an actual UC criminal facility

Used to house pirates and spacers and the like

[novel sparrow]

I mean narion treaty prohibits factions from settling on more than 3 systems

[cobalt saffron]

Given that the lock was abandoned after the war, it was likely because of the treaty

So it was a UC system before the war, but the narion treaty required them to abandon it

It held jasper kryx just after the war

[rapid totem]

Would be cool to see small abandoned UC properties in Kryx.

[static sky]

Your old self cease to exist in the old universe, it’s not cloning

[static sky]

The first you emissary & hunter have heard of. It’s unlikely, but how would explain constellation you on the third run ?

[silk lotus]

Just one of many variants.

[leaden gale]

You die when you enter the Unity.

[leaden gale]

That's a bold faced lie. Hunter tells you that you always die. They have heard of you before. You've never beaten hunter before.

[high copper]

Reborn more like after entering into a new universe

Your old body gets left behind and becomes one with the universe, while you take a new physical form in the next

[tender hawk]

That’s not true. I’m the universes that he went through, he killed you. But he has not explored all universes. Which is why he unfortunately stumbles upon a universe where you kill him.

[leaden gale]

Helix, name one universe that lacks the Hunter.
I'll wait.

[tender hawk]

Every universe has the Hunter that’s not what I’m saying

There’s some universes though that you kill the hunter. What you’re saying literally makes no sense. You’re talking as if The Hunter is “one being” connected through all the universes. Which isn’t true.

The Hunter changes characters each playthrough. It’s not always the same person beneath the helmet.

[slate valley]

You sure? I have seen evidence for exactly TWO Hunter variants. Both with the same face and voice, the only difference is one has a scar over his right eye, the other does not have a scar. But same face.
The EMMISARY however changes depending on who died on the eye. The face is only revealed in the Vanilla universe, never when you have an alt variant.

[daring lake]

I'm sure. And so is The Hunter himself. In the speech check in orbit of Masada "you" can
ask The Hunter to stop the fighting "Even if I agree there would be other versions of me
that would not"

[slate valley]

Reminds me, next vanilla universe I need to go to the eye when Hunter attacks - I have never actually gone there - always defended the lodge.

[slate valley]

no no - Helix claimed the Hunter changes character every play through. That is the Emissary.
There is always a Hunter in every universe, some will fight and some can be negotiated down.

Still the same person

Emmisary can be Sarah, Barrett, Sam or Andreja (four seperate characters)

[daring lake]

I agree that it is always Aquilas/Hunter. But at the same time maybe not the same in terms
of their experiences etc. Its a fine distinction I know. I'll turn off my inner pedant now 😉

[slate valley]

I have a theory (no evidence) that the Hunter with the scar is the one who can be negotiated with for the peaceful end, and the other without a scar is less jaded and refuses to be negotiated down. I need to try a vanilla universe again with the full quest to see the face variant and see if I can talk him down at Masada.

I plan on jumping into a 100% vanilla universe when shattered space drops into my PC.

[safe kite]

Isn't that just a persuasion check? It's always possible to negotiate if you follow the story.

[daring lake]

Oddly enough I also started a new "You" for a vanilla DLC experience. Holding it at
around level 50 with Walter's trip to Neon on hold.

[leaden gale]

The hunter has traveled through many different universes. So has the Emissary. Both confirm you're always garbage trash that dies.

[slate valley]

You would think. Yet I have done the negotiation all the way to 1 point remaining with 2 tries and he just flat out refuses and the negotiation fails.

[leaden gale]

You were always like mateo, until your first universe.

[tender hawk]

That makes literally no sense because if you’re “always” then you wouldn’t become starborn you would just die.

Therefore there HAS to be more universes out there where you live. This isn’t a debate it’s common sense lmao

[leaden gale]

the point of your first universe as in you, the player, playing the character.
I'm glad I could hold your hand and lead you on the path to understanding.

[tender hawk]

How do you know? Like this is my point. The Hunter has not traveled through every universe.

[leaden gale]

You think there are infinite universes. There are not. This isn't infinite universe complex. This is tree root complex.

in infinite universe complex, there is one universe for every possible outcome. That includes sunspots occuring at 9:05 am est instead of 9:06. or the sunspot moving to the left instead of the right. There is absolutely no such thing as free will in infinite universe complex because everything that can happen must happen.

Tree root complex is one true timeline that gets affected and changed by time travel, spawning a new timeline when it occurs.

[tender hawk]

says who? That’s a real life view but nothing is proven at all.

[leaden gale]

https://i.imgur.com/KEmbrXs.gif

Says Victor Aiza, the midwife of the multiverse.

[daring lake]

Yeah, nah. That's not where we are at all.

[leaden gale]

Then how is it that we have fixed folks every universe?

😌

Vimes, you cannot accept that the Unity flat out tells you that you die when you enter. You can't be trusted to look at this story objectively tbqafh.

[daring lake]

Unity "You" is very cryptic on the subject of death.
But less cryptic on the multiverse. " ...I have seen everything you are and everything you can be"
and also states that the Unity connects all points of spacetime.
Also I ask that you refrain from being so dismissive and personal.

[broken flower]

All Starborn are 3D printed versions of the original person

[round harbor]

is it ever explained what might happen if you fold space in an atmosphere? this isn't exactly what they did in the experiments on earth but my head canon assumes this is the outcome, if so what stops someone using their grav drive like a planet killer weapon and using it to strip atmosphere from a planet?

[ancient jungle]

You mean the vacuum maid from Space Balls?

[obsidian glade]

well if you grav jumped thru a planet it would be the immovable object vs the irresistable force right?

i'm going with the you cant grav jump close to a gravity well like a planet theory

[round harbor]

pretty much just slower

[round harbor]

well when we do grav jump in game we do it within the gravity well of a planet, usually in far orbit closer than the planets largange point

[obsidian glade]

i mean the original jumps are what stripped earth of its atmosphere so i assume they worked that out, as far as being used as a weapon? i guess nothing but the producers vision

[astral walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/starwars-hyperspace-epic-thelastjedi-awesome-gif-10751608

[jaunty ginkgo]

The grav design is fixed after they found out about the flaw, yes

[obsidian glade]

i mean they banned mechs and xenowarfare. i dont think planet cracking tech is something anyones interested with atm.

[novel sparrow]

Nobody knows that grav drives can destroy planets. Only we and a few other starborn know that

[scenic loom]

I'm wondering. Since the grav design destroyed earth's atmosphere, I think people realize doing grav jumps in planet atmosphere is an immediate no go. Even spacers think doing a jump is not a good idea

[safe kite]

The original grav drive was not used in atmosphere, that we know of. And the damage to Earth was done over years of use.

Someone could certainly undo the changes necessary to make them safe, but you'd be left with a drive that could potentially destroy an atmosphere, over the course of years and hundreds of jumps, which isn't really a superweapon.

[obsidian glade]

but what if you kamakaze your grav drive thru a planet by plotting a course right thru it?

[scenic loom]

it crashes you to desktop, obvs

[obsidian glade]

BSOD

[high copper]

I don’t think much would happen you’re opening a wormhole from a to b so I don’t think any obstacles will interfere

[obsidian glade]

i have to go back to the lore i always thought it was more like folding space, using gravity.

[scenic loom]

its been alsmot a year since i did the NASA mission

[crystal zealot]

||Audio logs found at the NASA research wing indicate that once the issue was realized the drives were discretely updated to resolve the issue.||

||Whatever was causing the degradation of Earths magnetic field were “patched out”. But I do not recall them elaborating on what precisely caused the sputtering of the atmosphere. Some sort of interaction between the artificial gravitational waves and the planets core.||

[round harbor]

isn't such a thing obvious to any ship technician that deals in the hardware and software of grav drives? would be like hiding an old vulnerability in code from a software dev irl, not likely or really easy at all to hide it

I mean it's not something they'd talk about to non technical people I guess to avoid scaring them but in a realistic setting they'd know as would everyone high up at the ship building companies

because they'd have to know to put this design feature in to every new grav drive they make

and, in such a way it could never be bypassed

if they didn't know about it nothing stops them making the same mistake again: "hey boss I found a way to make grav drives 50% cheaper with this one simple trick" "great let's do it, 50% more profit for us!" not knowing they're cutting out this safety feature

[fallen kiln]

The Hunter and The Emissary both think you surviving is something new, however.

[fallen kiln]

Was the depletion of the Ozone layer obvious to early refrigerator engineers? It's possible to have unforeseen side effects. Victor had just had the punchline spoiled for him by his vision self.

[fallen kiln]

It's possible that the drive just won't work at all if you activate it too deep inside a gravity well. That would be the simplest explanation.

[faint cave]

Do you think we shared to Constellation what happened on the NASA base after that quest?

[slate valley]

No doubt. Often one of the companions is with when we go to nasa and they comment. It just makes sense that the information is shared with the rest of constellation.

[fallen kiln]

I suppose it depends on how often you need to activate a grav drive above a planet for the thing to irreversibly affect the planet's magnetic field. And if it's possible to detect dangerous grav drive emissions. You might need to do a jump from Akila's orbit every week for a year before it takes. You'd get an armed retaliation long before the planet was seriously affected.

[faint cave]

I had Vasco with me during this quest. Seemed fitting, considering he was made on the Moon and had unique dialogue when you take him there.

[round harbor]

would you? nobody knows it's harmful

why would they try and stop you if it's a secret nobody knows, that it does damage

nobody knowing is like a builder not knowing wood isn't load bearing with cement on top surely

[fallen kiln]

No one knows that Aiza sabotaged the drive deliberately. I think it's known that the drive caused Earth's demise.

[leaden gale]

the implication is that our aiza didn't know how the machine worked. he had to take diction from alter aiza by writing it down.

[fallen kiln]

"He told me everything that has since come true. The Grav Drive equations. The tests on the Moon. Earth's atmosphere sputtering away because of what we had done."

He certainly knew what it was going to do. And I think he he understood it just fine by the end. Alt-Aiza just gave the Cliffs Notes version to save some time.

[leaden gale]

yeah he knew what was going to happen. i'm saying he couldn't have stopped it because he didn't know how the machine worked.

outside of just choosing not to use it anyway.

[fallen kiln]

Hmm.

But he also told me about a city, thriving on a planet orbiting a distant star. Human culture, art, music, lifestyles evolving and shining brightly across all of space.

What price would I be willing to pay for that future?

Sounds like he went along of his own free will to me.

And let's not forget, they fixed it pretty damn quick once they realized the problem. It couldn't have been that hard, once you understood the basic principle.

[slate valley]

Thats just it, only the Nova engineer, Judith and Aiza new the grav drives were the cause of the Earth's demise. It was a secret they all took to the grave with them, until we find Aiza's death confession. Literally no one else knew.

[fallen kiln]

Lan Hsu: I'm working on some designs that should... discretel solve the problem under the guise of an emergency update to the fueling pumps.

Judith Tatienne: We're talking about the end of Earth and you're trying to be subtle about it?

Victor Aiza: Judith. The last thing we need is people losing faith in Grav Drive technology. That might be our only option.

So it wasn't made common knowledge. That doesn't mean the information wasn't circulated at the highest levels.

The last thing you'd want is someone re-introducing the flaw into the drives because it added 1% efficiency or something, and no-one living who was able to explain why it was a bad idea

[astral zinc]

I would treat the whole grav drive debate similarly to nuclear weapons in this case— the difference being that the benign, productive-step-forward-for-humanity direction was taken first. It would be like if the science behind nuclear fission was aimed at generating power first vice weaponizing it. The physycists at the forefront would definitely want to keep the weaponized potential under wraps for as long as possible.

And that would work for the lay-person, in the case of the grav drive, whatever slight mod they did to keep whatever form of magnetosphere shearing occured as a result of the FTL jumps would be plain as day for anyone who understood the science of how grav drives work to see ways to weaponize them pretty quickly.

[tender hawk]

To them, yes. But that doesn’t mean anything. It is impossible for them to explore every universe. If one exists of you surviving, another one does too.

[static sky]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DABmGDDvGZy/?igsh=MTkzNXN3dHBza3hraA==

something went wrong during the final grav jump, they crossed path with another dimension & met the snake

[solemn bough]

His name is the Great Serpent and the Great Serpent is truth.

[static sky]

Whatev’, snack

[delicate hazel]

petition to name the great serpent "Gary"

Gary the snake

[astral zinc]

Well, that connects THOSE dots, at least

[static sky]

Or jeff

[static sky]

Which dots ?

[round charm]

holy hell whats going on in here?

seeing 4+ people talking in here🤣

[delicate hazel]

JEFF!
thats it, Jeff the snake
"prepare to meet Jeff, spacer filth!"

[astral zinc]

Jinana Varuun, what’s up with the great cosmic interdimensional snake, and why it seems to be so damned important

[static sky]

Va’ruun sign is somewhat looking like the unity, it was shown that all religion are worshipping some version of unity / starborn, so, what is the great snake ? The unity ? Something that live between universe ?

[astral zinc]

The SCP Foundation has entered the chat

[static sky]

Va’ruun is just snackers’ kryx.

[static sky]

I mean, that’s how religion are born

[astral zinc]

Nah, they’re gonna make the great serpent a proper cosmic space magic entity and it gives the impression of an ouroboros the way they draw its symbolism

[static sky]

It look like the unity

[astral zinc]

Next, we’ll see space vampires quoting Hellsing xD: “The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to keep me tame”

Think of it this way: the Unity is just that- a ball of infinitely bound-yet-diffusing possibilities, and the serpent is the celestial being that guards it by in some fashion, wrapping itself around it- thus the symbolism of the perpetually self-eating snake. Tie starborn space magic into that, and I’m getting the impression snek not a fan of “we, the starborn” due to some kind of multi-dimensional quantum paradox plot device

[leaden gale]

My son. I'm not saying he didn't choose that future. I'm saying he didn't understand the technology and couldn't have stopped it once he started. Our victor Aiza was a pretender, which is why he killed himself at the end.

[static sky]

Something went wrong with the grav drive, the grave drive was made by/with artifact, which is the unity. So, he saw unity, which is the snake ?

[astral zinc]

No, I’m implying that they are separate entities

[static sky]

Snake is from another dimension

[static sky]

So i’ve watched the new trailer, and just like the name would imply, house va’ruun broke the fabric of space & time to try to bring the great snack in our dimension & now others dimensions aliens are attacking

[safe kite]

May want to wait for the dlc to actually drop before making assumptions about the lore implications, tbh.

[astral zinc]

Meh, the loremasters at bethesda had this all figured out years ago, they’re just getting to sit and giggle and watch us try piece things together with incomplete information

[rigid kiln]

We'll I've pieced some thing together
https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseVaruun/s/6miGjqM9bW

[fallen kiln]

There's a metatemporal dimension though. The existence of both Hunter and Keeper, both Starborn, proves that. Which means it's possible that you were always the one who died, until something changed. So now the player surviving to become Starborn represents something new in the loop

[fallen kiln]

I just don't think the evidence supports that conclusion. We know he got a head start from someone, probably a Starborn iteration of himself, but I've seen nothing to suggest that he couldn't figure it out on his own; or that he didn't understand the tech as they researched it.

[slate valley]

Just like real life. Everything is nice until someone brings religion into it. Ruins everything every time.

[obsidian glade]

May the great serpent squeeze you

[clear rain]

You may find God in the stars brethren

[rigid kiln]

All must serve

[scenic loom]

Serve Chunks

[fallen kiln]

kundalini

[slate valley]

I haven't seen or heard that word since high school 40 years ago.

it wasn't used correctly

[fallen kiln]

I'm using it to mean "I've got your Great Serpent right here! In my pants!"

A somewhat irreverent use of the concept, I'll grant you, but not without foundation.

[solemn bough]

https://x.com/Starfield_Count/status/1836586310250996140?t=jIUPPLeVktxK6azehhIWYQ&s=19
Lore dump

The Starfield Countdown (Count) (@Starfield_Count) on X

The full history of House Va'ruun from the official #Starfield website 🐍✨

2190 - The colony ship "Archimedes" departs for deep space from Mars orbit. Contact is lost during its voyage.

2191 - The Archimedes arrives in the previously uncharted Kavnyk system. A passenger named

Twitter · Sep 19, 2024, 2:01 AM

[silk lotus]

Sounds like the Oracle station is how we get to va'ruun kai. Meaning the station we are in the trailer isnt the same one from andreja personal quest in the game currently.

[slate valley]

Actually the context in which it was used in the school yard 40 years ago.

[fallen kiln]

It was the name of my ship in an earlier Universe. I think I'll need to rebuild it before I visit Va'ruun'kai 🙂

[rigid kiln]

It doesn't look the same so it doesn't shock me that much

[rich zenith]

@rigid kiln which house do you think you'll back in Shattered space

[rigid kiln]

Ma'leen

Hope Daren is still alive

[silk lotus]

Sounds like he and anasko aren't on the same page though? What if anasko isn't with the zealots?

Forgot to make that a reply so here @rigid kiln

[rigid kiln]

Idc I just need his heir

[silk lotus]

Ok then.

[high copper]

Did some really think it was the same

[silk lotus]

I recall someone here saying so.

[high copper]

know anything about Ma'leen theres also Ka'dic

[silk lotus]

Might the be bald zealots dude in the deep dive.

[high copper]

true I did see some say it

[rigid kiln]

https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Lore:Deran_Ma'leen wrote this 6 months ago

Only named House Ma'leen member

[rigid kiln]

Would have expected Mavan to be the zealot house tbh

[silk lotus]

I wonder who pays the best. Or the differences gameplay wise.

[rigid kiln]

I'd assume reinstating House Ma'leen would have the biggest impact

[scenic loom]

looking at the current lore reveals
we know Houses Ma'leen and Kadic are a thing

how many minor houses will there be?

[rich zenith]

thought you might say that! So youll be one of the Zealots

Also I wonder what happened to the original Colony Counsel, whether they were forced to give up their power through violence

[scenic loom]

im intrigued to know as well

[rich zenith]

Looking forward to this a lot!

[obsidian glade]

House Kadic ? Wasn’t that Tomisars name?

[limber plover]

Can some1 explain factions t me in simple I'm kinda confused so far

[scenic loom]

factions?
like the United Colonies and Freestar collective and all that?

[limber plover]

Yea

[astral walrus]

Factions = really big gangs

[cobalt saffron]

or organisations ruling over different areas

[limber plover]

There's so many y can join I already encountered main quest 1 , military like 1 , and SM random person stopped me to ask me to join SM other 1 forgot the namr

[limber plover]

I mean yea I get that but what's th story what they want

[astral walrus]

Yea, you can join them all or none

[limber plover]

Is there SM like fallouts brotherhood of steel or simmilar ?

[cobalt saffron]

The 4 factions are United colonies (sol, alpha centauri), The Freestar Collective (Cheyenne, Narion, Volli)

[astral walrus]

Not quite

[scenic loom]

Id say that would be the UC (United Colonies)

[limber plover]

Can I destroy it ?

[astral walrus]

No

[limber plover]

Aw

[scenic loom]

the only factions you can "destroy" are the Crimson Fleet or SysDef

they wont go away from the base game but yeah

[cobalt saffron]

The Crimson Fleet (pirates), and Ryujin (Corporation, not so much a faction)

[astral walrus]

Trust me we'd all like that as an option

[limber plover]

Crimson is 1 that attacks y at start of the game right?

[astral walrus]

CF only "becomes" a faction of you sided with them

[high copper]

The main big pirate group

[scenic loom]

sadly no
the UC and FC are like the biggest factions so for plot purposes they cant be destroyed

[limber plover]

So who should I join ?

[cobalt saffron]

yeah, theres a quest that pops up called deep cover where UC Sysdef asks you to go undercover in them and find out what they are up to

[scenic loom]

thats the beauty about bethesda games, you can join them all or none

[limber plover]

I want a non racist , non aggressive non dictatorship faction with decent morals

Like minutemen

[scenic loom]

aah, then your only option is Constellation lol

[cobalt saffron]

You can then opt to help sysdef and destroy them from inside, or side with the fleet and destroy sysdef

[limber plover]

Those guys I'm looking for those metal like artifacts with ?

[cobalt saffron]

You can join all 4 factions and complete their quest chains and they have zero impact on the rest of the game

[scenic loom]

yep

[limber plover]

Tbh Sarah kinda bad , I decided

[cobalt saffron]

Freestar ask you to be a ranger, but its actually a who dunnit quest

UC vanguard is a volunteer force, and it has an awesome quest

[limber plover]

Tbh they seem dictator like to me from what I seen

[cobalt saffron]

Ryujin is about corporate sabotage, and involves lots of stealth

[limber plover]

Ngl cyberpunk player in me wants this kinda

[cobalt saffron]

point is you can do all the quests, and they won't impact each other

[astral walrus]

Monster hunter

[cobalt saffron]

they do not interact with each other as such

[limber plover]

Yea but my head to stubborn n I can't be with guys I don't like 💀

[astral walrus]

But you can... Cause of NG+

[cobalt saffron]

UC vanguard gives you an apartment as a reward and discounts in all UC settlements

[limber plover]

Nu uh would hate myself irl

[scenic loom]

UC is more military focused... so i guess they are kinda like the minutemen but not really
FC is more for the if you dont like the UC lol (cowboy vibes in Akila or metro nightlife in Neon)
Ryujin is more like the corporate espionage type of folks
Crimson Fleet are Space pirates
SysDef is UC's defense faction that are trying to get rid of the pirates

.... i think those are the faction questlines
theres a few more too liek the trackers alliance but thats more Creations based so i wouldnt say they are a faction thats part of the base game imo

[cobalt saffron]

Freestar gives you a free ship

[astral walrus]

UC gives you ship weapons

[cobalt saffron]

Ryujin increases your manipulation skill by one point

[scenic loom]

UC Vanguard ngl has awesome ship weapons

[astral walrus]

And stealth suit

[limber plover]

Ok so fc ,sysdef would be for me

Oh n ryujin sounds fun ,IL try them

[scenic loom]

ive always been a sneak thief rogue in all the Bethesda games i play
so Ryujin was a no brainer for me but im gonna wait til we get better improvements on the sneak or better mods for stealth playthroughs

[cobalt saffron]

Fc is the wild west, akila city, cowboys

[astral walrus]

Dont forget House Va'ruun

[scenic loom]

aah yes
but ill add them once SS is out

they arent part of the base game so i tend to keep them separate but true enough

regardless of how the factions are
i like how different they are from each other

[astral walrus]

Void form X makes most Ryujin missions easy

[scenic loom]

specific aesthetic and story

[solemn bough]

All must serve, DJ

[scenic loom]

🇼

[cobalt saffron]

all I can see of that is the W

dark mode discord hides the symbols

[scenic loom]

🇼

im on dark mode so i can see them but fair enough lol

[solemn bough]

Oh, by the way, be ready for House Ka'dic. Sound familiar?

[scenic loom]

i wanna know the other minor houses

so far we only have Ma'leen and Ka'dic

[solemn bough]

Tomisar Ka'dic

[astral walrus]

Are there any houses that dont have an (')?

[scenic loom]

ngl, a part of me wants us to see a sort of Game Of Thrones vibe but thats overhyping it
still, im glad we are getting a "houses"-theme going on in SF

always enjoyed those kinds of stories

[solemn bough]

Nope. Seems to be part of the naming structure in their culture.

[scenic loom]

House 🇼

[astral walrus]

Is there a culture currently that has that?

[scenic loom]

The great serpent aka Snek-daddy is just another Starborn

or feels like it might be
based on how things went down with earth

[astral walrus]

But Jinan met GS during a grav jump into the kavnyk sys. No way of knowing if GS is of earth

[scenic loom]

hmmm
i wonder if said grav jump was going through the Unity in some way

[scenic loom]

well thats the thing, like its possible Snek-daddy might be a starborn from some other universe

[static sky]

He went crazy, saw the vision of the artifact like you does when you touch one & though that was a snake & made a cult out of it
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAEDlsJhm9b/?igsh=ZXQyNWlxbGExemlr

The snake doesn’t exist, there is only the unity, which is the source of all religions

[static sky]

When you grav jump, it show the same vision of when you touch an artifact. Grav drive was built on artifacts, after all.

[scenic loom]

hmm good point
so i guess its safe to say that the Unity is involved regardless

[rigid kiln]

I assume mavan will be a house

[high copper]

House Wolters

[static sky]

Va’ruun was just a random dude like kryx & then something happened that made them famous

[obsidian glade]

soon all will Join House Va'ruun and enjoy the embrace of the great serpent!

[analog junco]

Yeah, he saw the Great Serpent. It it was like "sup?"

[rich zenith]

Join the UC. They aren't perfect though

[rich zenith]

Same. Seems like it is a fiefdom society

[solemn bough]

Their names sound quite middle eastern to me.

[analog junco]

I do get a lot of Dune vibes from them so it makes sense if their names sound Middle Eastern-ish

[rigid kiln]

The great serpent is real and you will see the truth

[analog junco]

https://tenor.com/view/true-correct-dwight-schrute-rainn-wilson-right-gif-23822659

[rich zenith]

i dont think they will reveal who the great serpent is

what is a religion without the mystery?

[rigid kiln]

The truth

[analog junco]

https://tenor.com/view/jojos-bizarre-adventures-it-was-me-dio-anime-gif-15566899

[static sky]

Well, we already know snackers are annoying

[analog junco]

what do you mean by snackers?

[static sky]

Snake people

[analog junco]

I don't think they are creating snake people hybrids, that was one of my suggestions/theories. Seems like they went down the grav-drive mishap route

[rigid kiln]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1207436420650639450/1209931005973102612/RDT_20240221_1917221595864983090814958.jpg?ex=66ed174f&is=66ebc5cf&hm=f3be392cfdf95bdff3e77389a29a22bfa2a5b3c0366ab693aa2376b3c00b7e2d&

I always thought it would be grav drive related stuff since that's importsnt to our religion

[analog junco]

I like how Andreja enjoys boosting in the Rev-8

I hope there is like an end game questline eventually when we meet like 1-2 other species. I get what they were going for but I think a lot of IPs don't explore the very first contact as being character/player driven.

[rich zenith]

https://x.com/StarfieldGame/status/1836787540042358812

Starfield (@StarfieldGame) on X

40 years after disappearing, the heavily modified Archimedes reemerged in the Volii System under a new title: Mourning, flagship of House Va’ruun. For ten years, House Va’ruun secretly recruited warriors and gathered supplies, arms and starships in preparation for a great

Twitter · Sep 19, 2024, 3:20 PM

[rigid kiln]

I was right

[static sky]

I was talking about the followers of va’ruun

[static sky]

Were was he, was he still in our universe ? How did he came back

[rigid kiln]

he?

Kessic Mohar?

[silk lotus]

Guys I think I may be promised. Went under sedation and had a dream about starfieldhe great serpent wants a huntelr (not that one). A man-hunter if that is his will I will serve.

Also the procedure went well. Gonna do some tests but things look promising.

Officially gonna do the unity one more time to take the perk. I'll just have to grind to get a new ship.

I may stay with the trackers alliance to hone my skills.

Wait I thought this was chat.

Also is the promised title for those who speak to the serpent or those who revive visions from the serpent?

@rigid kiln

[rigid kiln]

Promised is those who follow the great serpent

those who are promised to be at his side when the great serpents returns and shrouds the universe

[silk lotus]

Thanks. Hope my ping wasn't too annoying.

[rich zenith]

i wonder if we can start a new serpents crusade type of holy war at the end of the story

[high copper]

Probably not

[silk lotus]

My guess it it happens after he hit up the unity once again.

[rich zenith]

reason i bring it up is becasue we get to side with the minor house we choose. if we choose the zealots then maybe its carrying on their violence. BGS also said your choices could have a big impact on the rest of the Settled Systems

[silk lotus]

We are just speculating. Well have to see when we get there.

[analog junco]

or you could go for the Razorleaf

[silk lotus]

I prefer using my own ships. I like my character as themselves and not mantis 2.0.

[rich zenith]

if we wait to see then we will no longer speculate. And wheres the fun in that?

[silk lotus]

The thing is that speculation can be wrong.

[rich zenith]

indeed it can, thats what makes it speculation

[solemn bough]

Accursed conspiracies and speculation is very entertaining

[analog junco]

I hope we do get to see something, like a cutscene of our own at least of GS

[rich zenith]

what is GS?

[analog junco]

Great Serpent

[rich zenith]

Ohh. BGS never do cutscenes

[analog junco]

They kind of did when you first meet Miraak in Dragonborn

[high copper]

Technically you had one during the vanguard questline

[rich zenith]

yeah true

the cutscnes BGS use a are like in game scenes but using freecam

[rigid kiln]

updated the wiki hihi
https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Lore:House_Va'ruun

[deep vale]

yea the last thing I need is a cutscene with a different framerate and quality and get no inputs for 5-10 minutes

[fallen kiln]

They like their "arrive by boat" scenes, too. Raven Rock, Point Lookout, Far Harbour.

[crystal zealot]

Boats are all the rage for crossing metaphorical and literal boundaries, gotta be my top plot conveyance device.

Whole game is already ships, ships all the way down, might as well make good on the theme

[manic igloo]

I’m wondering if the backstory for our Serpent’s Embrace protagonist might be tied to the Honored Heroes of the Great Crusade since the possible implication is that they are in the Settled Systems (like being the child of one of them).

[fallen kiln]

Talking about Bethesda's use of cut scenes in previous games. But you're not wrong about the metaphorical aspect

[novel sparrow]

and ryujin

[static sky]

Cutscene aren’t really cut scene with bethesda

Full chronology of house va’ruun

https://x.com/Starfield_Count/status/1836586310250996140?t=jIUPPLeVktxK6azehhIWYQ

The Starfield Countdown (Count) (@Starfield_Count) on X

The full history of House Va'ruun from the official #Starfield website 🐍✨

2190 - The colony ship "Archimedes" departs for deep space from Mars orbit. Contact is lost during its voyage.

2191 - The Archimedes arrives in the previously uncharted Kavnyk system. A passenger named

Twitter · Sep 19, 2024, 2:01 AM

Jinan made up the snake to create a theocracy

With the UC, we have bureaucracy, with FS, we have « no government » & with va’ruun, we have theocracy. Three different from of government.

All created from what was going to be the UC.

All three capitals.
Va’ruun capital was the result of the grav drive dysfunction

[slate valley]

Freestar is more Libertarian Feudalism.

UC is Authoritarian

[static sky]

House va’ruun try to reach the unity without artifact because they don’t know about them. So they break space & time

[static sky]

You have never seen authoritarian

[slate valley]

Wanna bet on that? Houses?

[static sky]

Are you talking about va’ruun or the UC ?

[slate valley]

UC is Authoritarian. You claim (without knowing me) that I have never seen Authoritarian. I say - wanna bet?

Wanna bet your house on your claim?

[static sky]

Va’ruun have houses, not UC

You’re confusing factions

[slate valley]

No. YOU claim I have never seen authoritarian. I reply do you want to bet YOUR house on that?

[static sky]

But i’m not va’ruun !

It’s not my house.

[slate valley]

What has varuun got to do with it?

[static sky]

Idk, you keep talking about house va’ruun

[slate valley]

Try actually reading what I replied to you.

[static sky]

Va’ruun is not my house

[slate valley]

No. YOU claim I have never seen authoritarian. I reply do you want to bet YOUR house on that? - the house that you (the real person who is you) lives in. Your real life home. You want to bet that I have never seen authoritarian?

[static sky]

What are you even talking about

[slate valley]

Freestar is more Libertarian Feudalism. (edited)
[19:02]
UC is Authoritarian

[static sky]

I was talking about house va’ruun

[slate valley]

Don't know how you could get varuun mixed up in a conversation where I NEVER mentioned varuun at all.

[static sky]

Va’ruun is authoritarian, UC is bureaucratic

[slate valley]

UC is authoritarian government. Varuun is a theorocracy.

[static sky]

You keep talking about house in the middle of conversation about house va’ruun

[static sky]

Why do you think that

[slate valley]

No. YOU claim I have never seen authoritarian. I reply do you want to bet YOUR house on that? - the house that you (the real person who is you) lives in. Your real life home. You want to bet that I have never seen authoritarian?

You challenged me, then play dumb. I'm putting you on block.

[daring lake]

sip ☕ So .... state normal in the lore channel then 😄

[static sky]

Really, some people just hate when you don’t worship their snake and will call the lawful good evil because of their snake delulu

[rigid kiln]

Some people just don't like the UC and FC

[static sky]

Yeah, they’re crusader zealots

I like the idea that in the dlc, you can choose to start again the crusade or make va’ruun return peacefully in the diplomatic table

[rigid kiln]

Nah UC and FC just poopoo factions

[static sky]

In « some people » « so people » were useless extra words ? 🤣

[rigid kiln]

Nah meant me and my kindred in general

[static sky]

FC is barely a faction & UC is cool

[rigid kiln]

Didn't wanna exclude them

UC is so dystopian I'll pass
You do you tho

[static sky]

How uc is dystopian ?

[rigid kiln]

Forced earned citizenship bs
Mars is one big safety hazard
New atlantis is build upon big poopoo

[static sky]

I mean, what was i expecting from snackere

[rigid kiln]

Also just poopoo political factions me not like

[quartz flicker]

Like, every part of starfield world is dystopian crap

Internet does not exist

You have to travel light years to buy stuff

They can't even charge your ship themselve

You have to craft your own chairs

You can't even escape this world since all universes are that though 🥲

[rigid kiln]

Internet not existing is not dystopian thats the best thing that could happen

[quartz flicker]

Like, i could agree, but it's all the cons of a futuristic world without the pros in starfield

[manic igloo]

You realize people are just having fun with the faction, right?

[rigid kiln]

Nobody could ever tell me that having no internet is a con

[quartz flicker]

Forget "internet"

How no delivery system in a futuristic world is a con

[daring lake]

"Delivery System" ?

[quartz flicker]

How having to buy to a marakesh stand and carry your rocks to your ship is a good thing

[rigid kiln]

Pretty sure I've done deliverys to mars a view times

[quartz flicker]

Yeah you are the only person of the universe capable of doing deliveries

Npc cant or its just folklore

[daring lake]

Not true.

Star Parcel is a NPC thing.

[quartz flicker]

Can you ask star parcel to deliver stuff

[rigid kiln]

Yea that's what I'm referring to

[daring lake]

It exists. But yeah, not for the player. And tbh I'm not upset about that 🙂

[rigid kiln]

Bestie can I vote?
Do I pay tax?
This is the same discussion of stuff you don't experience yourself in game thus it doesn't exist 😭

[daring lake]

Space Ikea + Space FedEx for players? Not for me thanks.

[rigid kiln]

Me when I'm to lazy to get stuff myself

[high copper]

There is reference to internet and there is tv
Just the player doesn’t have access to them

[tardy stag]

There’s musicians and concerts and all that too

Which tbh i wish we could see in atleast a quest or something

Some of the other musicians i know neon has a little of that

[broken flower]

Vasco on bass, Walter on drums, Sarah and Andreja backing vocalists

[scenic loom]

Damn, Constellation really out here in the settled systems, huh?

Odd way of exploration but hey lol

[cobalt saffron]

Sarah was in a band when younger and she was the drummer

[daring lake]

Yeah, Sarah on drums, Vasco on Bass, Vlad - lead vocals, Walter on triangle,
Sam on guitar with Noele on keyboards. Mateo does nothing.

[obsidian glade]

Mateo is the bag man every band needs one

[crystal zealot]

Barret does a two hour stand up routine as the opener to the band.

There is a slam poetry session nestled in between the first and second act

[solemn bough]

Cora slam poetry on the UC

[crystal zealot]

Cora slams audience with poetry book

[safe kite]

Space is cold and dark

[crystal zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/snap-gif-23819914

[cobalt saffron]

not always

[safe kite]

Space is hot and wet

[cobalt saffron]

Its possible to find your self in direct sunlight and be able to feel heat from the star hundreds of thousands of miles from it

[safe kite]

A poetry session with live fact checking would actually be pretty interesting.

[solemn bough]

Fact check Sarah Karen Morgan on everything and don't fact check Andreja at all

[safe kite]

Wait this is the lore channel.

What did you people do to my lore channel?

[solemn bough]

2200 - Any pretense of separation of church and state within House Va'ruun is banished. All serve the Great Serpent

[safe kite]

Dys has changed the topic to "How did the same alien species populate multiple planets, and why is the most likely explanation human intervention?"

[solemn bough]

Well you see, it comes back to the elite slug people at Nova Galactic and Combatech

First they replace old Earth with a fake one. Who knows what their plans are next!

[safe kite]

We all know about the Referendum on Alien Transport and Introduction of 2298. It's been discussed to death. Let's leave Nova Galactic out of this.

[solemn bough]

You don't want to do this. Nova has dirty money.

We need an intervention.

[elder wadi]

Nova Galactic didn't go bankrupt, they went dark!

[scenic loom]

Really? All their ship parts are light by default

[solemn bough]

The bottom part of their landing bay is dark. Check mate!

[rigid kiln]

Based

[manic igloo]

It may be an issue of creating ‘futuristic music.’

[high copper]

There's unique music in some areas
one that no one talks about is the little area in the Sengokuh syndicate hideout theres some beats in a room

[manic igloo]

True, like in the club at Neon, but it’s a beat that’s on repeat the entire time. I imagine trying to formulate futuristic music in a prominent way (not just in the background of a quest) could be an arduous task for the developers. It’s easier said than done.

[jaunty ginkgo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1286831781026332672/image.png?ex=66ef56fc&is=66ee057c&hm=d13ddab2231331957700b8c6c9467c514c0d196c5e77a3e3ff1554c3ced460be& Lorem Ipsum confirmed

[bitter steeple]

UC sucks but FC is where it’s at

[faint cave]

We should convince Walter to revive Nova Galactic, or sell parts inspired by Nova Galactic. The sales from the nostalgia factor alone would probably be really high.

[static sky]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DALvWqHt1Pf/?igsh=ZHpodHRodmxndXli

[rigid kiln]

Delulu

[delicate hazel]

UC! rules!

[silk lotus]

More like has too many rules.

[delicate hazel]

yea! rules! Democracy! Freedom!

for super earth!

wrong universe, sorry

[static sky]

that is authocracy

[plain shore]

I much prefer a Meritocracy

[rigid kiln]

Theocracy >>

[desert zinc]

Managed Democracy! Reporting you to my Democracy Officer 🧐

[static sky]

🤣

[inner raft]

How do people in New Atlantis live with 49 hour days? Do they just live in 24.5 hour cycles and spend one cycle in daylight and one cycle at night?

[slate valley]

The shop keepers never sleep. Something sus there. Must be robots 😂

[alpine zinc]

SpaceStims(TM)

[delicate hazel]

41 hours awake and 8 hours sleep

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me

[crystal zealot]

I would much rather none of the shop keeps slept, rather than try to balance the wildly varied day/night cycles between the locations I instantly teleport between. It would be incredibly annoying waiting eight hours or more every single time I change locations.

Realism be damned, that was a decision for better game feel.

[slate valley]

Have an alternate shop keeper. Like an assistant. You know. like that crazy woman in Diamond City who keeps shop in the day and her robot mr handy keeps shop at night. A much more immersive solution. No waiting for the shop to open either.

[crystal zealot]

That is, so, much work. Like an insane amount of scope creep for a minor realism gripe. I would not settle for a slightly different npc with the same voice/dialogue so either we uniquely voice every single instance of a merchant twice or.. like I think we got the best deal for the value. It’s certainly an idea for a mod.

Gotta set realistic expectations on this stuff. They are not going to double cast every single service rep in the game just to explain away the fact that there is no way they can sync up every conceivable time zone. While it hurts rp opportunities the alternative is either annoying or massive in scope for little justification.

[vagrant orbit]

A simpler way would be to have self-service terminals in all shops. When the merchant isn't present, you can use that.

[jaunty ginkgo]

If the daily Va'ruun dataslate log videos goes beyond the 5, I have a guess that it'll reach 13 at 29th of September (Starting at 17th), which is a day before the release date. Is there any common number associated with Va'ruun?

🤔 paging @rigid kiln

[rigid kiln]

no

made a lore page for Kessic tho
https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Lore:Kessic_Mohar

[jaunty ginkgo]

Oh right the series is named The Serpent's Path

[faint cave]

I was thinking replacing the shopkeepers with robots, with the shopkeeper just hanging around the shop, but this idea is easier to implement..

[slate valley]

Self serve kiosk is a brilliant alternative. Limit the number of assistant shop keeps to just the luxury venues. Chunks and Terrabrew have kiosks already, as does the Trade Authority. But the TA is a special case, only the actual shop keeper can buy contraband (because that is an under the counter transaction).

We should take this to the suggestions # channel.

#starfield-suggestions message

[barren brook]

Have somebody estimated the total population of starfield. If there are only 300k people escaped. After 160 years(the game started in 2310), if the population generated 2 times per 20 years, considering the sacred war and colony war, the population should be (300k*2^(80/20)*0.9)2^(80/20)-(300k2^(80/20)*0.9)*2^(80/20)2/30.1=64.512million people. If the starfield only has 7 large sites thousands of small colonies as the game mentions, which has 5-7 people, and each large site has about 200-300k people, there are about 10.452million small colonies. And if you explore the planets, you may find there are about 10 planets can generate colonies. And I wonder if the ratio of big sites to small colonies is unreasonable, the population distribution is wired, so I wish there should be some middle size towns just like riverwood in skyrim.

[jaunty ginkgo]

The general sizes are always scaled down and balanced between detail and breadth, even in Skyrim the amount of bandits overwhelm most settlements because they're there as part of the fantasy of adventuring, while the towns are there to give a sense of belonging to the world

There are of course some overlap where identity of the bandits are more defined (for ex. Crimson Fleet, the named bandit groups in Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC, and particularly the Forsworn in Skyrim)

The only Bethesda games that goes all the way for breadth in that sense are TES Arena and Daggerfall, largely because those two are very much about systems-driven roleplaying (having a house, horse and carriage, guild-based reputation system based on radiant missions) that benefits from having great breadth like that of more realistic population size. The later games are still systems-driven and gradually reintroduces features in those early games and add new ones (being able to marry, radiant quests alongside handcrafted ones, encounters that lead to quests, even adopt a child, etc.), but they don't solely rely on those systems

[naive meteor]

what bugs me in Starfield, there is never any actual reference to time passing. we all know "The significant of passing of time."

It's all about number of hours passed, but never days, weeks or months passed. so what date is it? You spend 1 week on Venus, few years have passed UT, but it's always like you been gone a few minutes or hours. This should have been redone into more real passage of time, and a calendar keep telling you about it.

[jaunty ginkgo]

Yea, I've made a suggestion to show calendar dates in UT myself. Having it shown adds to the player's character history

[naive meteor]

currently, 1 hr on Venus = 300 UT if memory serves. so if you spend enough time there currently, everyone else in the universe except from Vasco should be dead from old age ... and that still doesnt happen now, does it. 1 day on Venus should take like 241 days i think it is and 1 yr is 226 earth days. depending on rotation of Venus, you either get sunrise in the West every 241 days or in the east 220 days (in earth days). If same rotation as the earth, and you land at sunrise, you would have constant baking hot sun for some 80 years before sun sets on Venus (provided my brain didnt crash during this). But what we get is 16 hrs because everyone in summer in temperate earth sun rotation.

[torn zodiac]

there is a mod that shows calendar date when you wake up, and I think when you stop waiting

[daring lake]

90 UT hours on Venus for 1 hour slept. But the point still stands.

[naive meteor]

ty

[safe kite]

I can kinda see why the devs don't want to track that too closely.

You can absolutely time travel by just waiting places, which would very quickly make any context no longer make sense.

[daring lake]

The moon of Porrima II (Red Mile) is 52 UT hours per hour slept. Useful for
when you have lots stuff to sell 🙂
edit: Porrima III actually

[naive meteor]

ty, grabbed it

[naive meteor]

that kind of timetravel is only forwards, never backwards.
Significance of the passage of time. Time is passing, which is significant.

[safe kite]

Yes. And no one ages and NPCs do not register how long it has been since you talked to them. Accounting for every player wanting to zoom forward 5 years and have it still make sense would be a losing battle.

So they either just remove the calendar and keep it vague so everything stays coherent, at the risk of the player complaining there is no calendar; or they track time passing and try (and fail) to have NPCs react appropriately, at the risk of the player complaining when that inevitably breaks, or NPCs don't notice at all.

Keeping it vague is the lesser of two evils. Easier to implement, less cognitive dissonance for the player.

[naive meteor]

and still when doing something very fast they ask: what took you so long, or there you, thought you forgot me

[naive meteor]

no really. your passage of time should ALWAYS be counting in UT, and planets that differs from UT either more hours in their day or less. UT time and calendar should always be prime counting, so if refill a store after 48 UT it will take 2x 24 hrs wait no matter where you are. In my opinion that would be immersive.

i really think that making all planets have a 24 hrs clock that you follow is the worst solution possible.

[static sky]

Passage of time is impossible to track, it’s different on every planet & beside the unity, everything else should be realistic ? 🤪

[naive meteor]

your own passage of time, and always measured in UT. planets already have equation for turning planet into 24 equated into ut equivalent and show (12 hrs UT) or something like 1 hr = 90 hrs ut. that should be reversed imo. doesnt have to touch other activities around the map.

we had passing of time in Fo4, this could work the very same way, except the reversed calculation of their silly 24 hrs planets.

[fallen kiln]

Thing is, I guess, that if you need to wait for sunup or sundown in a certain location, that would be really awkward with UT times. The fast spinning ones, you could easily overshoot with a one hour granularity. The slow spinning ones, you'd need dozens, maybe hundreds of 24 hour sleeps to get there

Making the sleep times in "local time" means you wait for a certain point in the day/night cycle easily, and you don't have to do the mental arithmetic to work out how long you need to rest for to see sunrise.

(OK, it's a feature mainly useful for photo mode. Even so...)

[naive meteor]

or include the feature at Eleos, wait until 'event' and snap shot to that event

[near slate]

Let's keep real world politics out of this server, please.

[karmic gale]

Yes, thank you.

[viscid epoch]

I need a Bethesda dev to confirm something one way or another.

Are dogs extinct in Starfield?

[delicate hazel]

as a xenobiologist i shall make puppies and make dogs mans best friend once again

[viscid epoch]

if they are extinct I will cry but I will salute you

I think at the very least the Golden Retriever is but I didn't see anywhere that said all dogs

[delicate hazel]

curiosuly tho, with all this wildlife why havent humans domesticated a alien species yet? or have tried to?
we try to domesticate every single animal on earth already cant really see that changing when those animals are from a different planet

Pet heatleach anyone?

[viscid epoch]

I have two dogs, two chinchillas and a few spiders.

I would absolutely get alien pets

including the Heatleach, I need a home defense Terrormorph

[delicate hazel]

i wanted to see your pets till i read spiders, i HATE spiders
also get small panic attack when said spiders are big enough

[silver eagle]

what! Spiders are cute!...some of them lol

[delicate hazel]

pet terrormorph called Fluffy

[delicate hazel]

to someone sure! to me? They are fear inducing 8 legged demons that can cause a grown 29 year old man to cry out of fear

[silver eagle]

You got a problem with creatures with 8 limbs!

https://tenor.com/view/angry-octopus-ośmiorniczka-ośmiornica-zła-ośmiornica-zła-ośmiorniczka-gif-19719247

[viscid epoch]

I am obsessed with animals and "bugs.". It's an odd quirk, but I get joy from caring for living things. Spiders are actually really chill and I'd take the company of them over most people.

[delicate hazel]

weirdly enough its only spiders that i have a problem with

[viscid epoch]

I also help take care of honey bees at my family's apiary

Bethesda, if one of your devs confirms that dogs and cats still exist in Starfield I will buy Shattered Space for my Xbox in addition to PC.

They don't even need to be in the expansion.

[static sky]

They still exist

Cora ask her father to adopt one, during one of their random talks

I’ve got sam as crew & and i jump in & out of systems, sometimes it’s cora & sam. and sometime, she ask about having a dog / cat, depending of the language of your game

[viscid epoch]

Lovely

[jaunty ginkgo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1287925982220783648/sobby.png?ex=66f3520a&is=66f2008a&hm=c4d9be041f89f41f9a73099d3d7481a9d4f507e01c9f3638801a389f9fc22a6c& Just watched All Must Serve

[safe kite]

Suicide Cult 🧐

[scenic loom]

🇼

[viscid epoch]

Cursed lol

[scenic loom]

"All must swerve the gweat swerpent!" 🇺

[karmic gale]

I want a dog in Starfield.

[burnt wren]

I want a bf in Starfield

seriously though a bit disappointed with the male romance options

Sam and Barrett feel more like dad/uncle vibes. Haven't gotten too far in the rest of the story since my last character got all his saves corrupted so maybe there's other character options

[viscid epoch]

Yeah I feel ya, Sam is closest for me, but I'd prefer other options. I have many types and he fits in option C for me

Need myself a gorgeous space prince tho

[burnt wren]

#1146508614396284968 message Honestly just need a clone of my current character lol

[viscid epoch]

dude lmao he looks just like my character

[burnt wren]

haha

[viscid epoch]

excellent taste tho

[burnt wren]

I forget which preset I used but I made him halfway between built and skinny

[viscid epoch]

twunk energy fr

[burnt wren]

also needed long hair mods

[viscid epoch]

yeah I like Allnarta's hair mod and zone's

[burnt wren]

I got the elf ears mod and sad zone's clothing mods only have chokers for females

[viscid epoch]

dude ikr, it drives me crazy

I'd love to see male ports for those

[burnt wren]

yeah. I don't like telling mod authors what to do so it really boils down to someone potentially porting those or making them from scratch

[viscid epoch]

same boat, I wanted to ask Allnarta if she was going to do patches for Zone's other mods but it looks like she quit Starfield modding

debating on doing the patches myself but I do enough game dev work to want to mod in my free time

[burnt wren]

rip. yeah and same. plus I'm trying to finish my planet overhaul mods for post SS update

[viscid epoch]

planet overhauls? sounds dope

[viscid epoch]

wait hold up, is the elf ears mod still up?

[burnt wren]

basically have three in the works: Making a terraformed Jovian Moons mod, Moon of Endor from SW, and my own planet overhaul to Cassiopeia I to make it a lush peaceful planet full of old architecture

I'm using additional facemorphs

[viscid epoch]

oh ok, that one, I think I have it but haven't messed with those sliders. Ill have to check. I love elves

[burnt wren]

yeah same

[viscid epoch]

Elven supremacy! Though I'm not much of a high elf, I like Bosmer. Gotta love those tree houses and cannibalism

[burnt wren]

I was honestly hoping for space elves when Starfield was first found out to be in development

[viscid epoch]

Space Elves would be dope, I can respect their choice to keep things with mostly humanity, but I'd love to see other races in future installments.

A first contact with an alien race hot elven men would be awesome

[burnt wren]

there was a fake leak that talked about Bethesda using real world alien lore races in SF like Pleiadians and Greys etc... Also mentioned how it would be a sequel to Fallout and a prequel to TES

[viscid epoch]

that would be really interesting actually

[burnt wren]

so all of BGS games would be in one universe

of course it was fake. Got my hopes up lol

[viscid epoch]

I'd be a bit mixed on that, some creative potential for sure, but I'm fairly certain ES metaphysics are really weird.

Something something magic, anything is possible lol

[burnt wren]

I'm kinda hoping if we ever get Starfield 2 they give it the Kirkbride treatment like Morrowind had

really go ham on the lore

[viscid epoch]

That's actually why I'm hyped for Shattered Space, its got some Morrowind vibes

Outsider in an alien land, maybe part of a prophecy of the native strange religious cults

Political intrigue between houses and joining them

If we have a Dagoth Ur it will be too on the nose lol

[burnt wren]

yeah the Va'ruun are the most interesting part of Starfield for me

[velvet flax]

I mean their culture is cool af but the great serpent is a just an artifact vision bro thought was god

Also lore question is it possible that victor aiza was also the hunter/keeper

[daring lake]

Yeah, that one is up for debate. And has been debated several times 🙂
So it is possible, but there is no definitive proof.

[static sky]

Some people think that

[static sky]

Some people also think they’re the pilgrim because of the scorpio in the pilgrim quest & the hunter ship is the scorpio

[velvet flax]

That begs the question, how could he exist is the same universe as 4 different versions of himself

[velvet flax]

Also who killed him ? The hunter

[daring lake]

Who killed the version of Aiza that we find in NASA?
Honestly, my money would be on Judith, or suicide.
I don't think it would have been The Hunter as he would most
likely have taken the Artifact.

[velvet flax]

The only problem is that there's another dead scientist at the bottom of the stairs, like someone who was running away got shot in the back and we also find no weapon near victors body

So I doubt it was suicide

[daring lake]

Yep. It is a puzzle for sure. One with no clues found as yet.

[silk lotus]

I still say that the hunter is not aiza. Literally they sound nothing alike.

[cobalt saffron]

https://www.reddit.com/r/starfield_lore/comments/16q7z27/we_need_to_talk_about_victor_aiza/

An old thread, but interesting

Lots of people hold that the hunter as aquilus killed victor

[tough lark]

Ah I hate that the link in that post to the readable notes was deleted

[daring lake]

Many points of debate, and nothing concrete in evidence. Its up for grabs imo.

[rich zenith]

Think this has new lore. The video was sponsored by Bethesda
https://youtu.be/zOOOezfEmP4?si=sK1BZPEauEbGe1Ot

[static sky]

Doesn’t have to be the all 4 as same hunter, same universe.

[velvet flax]

The hunter and the keeper have different voice actors but we know they're the same person so doesn't really apply

[static sky]

« Of course, it is difficult to talk about why people are so interested in Victor without mentioning the Hunter. We know he is from Earth, and he is a variation of Aquilus and therefore the Pilgrim as well. » this person consider the pilgrim as keeper/hunter without proofs, we’re not sure of that

The screenshot does have a point. His time on earth, older than you might believe.

[cobalt saffron]

Its more the fact that the unity enables time travel so the hunter can bounce back and forth between different time periods

[static sky]

Yeah

[static sky]

He used it so much that he found how to travel through space & time ? Might be

[cobalt saffron]

The idea being that the hunter killed victor and left the artifact there for us, knowing we would come and get it one day

[static sky]

But then, none of them imply that

[static sky]

Doesn’t sound like the hunter

[cobalt saffron]

Our own journey implies time travel -- we always go BACK in time to the point just after vectera

[static sky]

Also, why would he kill victor

« I get the feeling that the Hunter kills Victor to a) tie up loose ends like he does with Aquilus and b) he ensures the fastest route to the Unity possible without Victor fixing things. » say a comment

[cobalt saffron]

Possibly to make sure we could obtain the artifact easily, but I suspect theres other reasons. Talking to the hunter at length reveals he has some very complex motives behind some of his actions. Initially, he thought he could stop us, but soon realised we had a larger role to play in the unity.

There is a reason he and the emissary choose to meet us right outside NASA just after we get that artifact

That one was left there deliberately. He wants us to learn why things happend and about the story of Victor

[static sky]

To explain the whole « unity is the source of grav drive that destroyed unity »

[cobalt saffron]

Both him and the emissary need us to learn about the invention of the grav drive and where its origins lay. That artifact came from Mars originally - a planet that also had its magnetopshere almost completely scoured

[silk lotus]

I have yet to see proof. Best I have seen is circumstantial evidence and people stretching what is said in game.

[cobalt saffron]

well, the hunter is seemingly always aquilus and the emissary tends to bounce between several members of constellation

I reckon the pilgrim was the founder of constellation

[static sky]

Maybe the unity send you back where you got one for the first time. But then i doubt the hunter would make 200y to get all the artifacts

[static sky]

No

We don’t know who is the pilgrim, outside that he asked deep philosophical questions to every religion, keeper aquilus send us on his search for the answers to our questions & we end up at the tail of the scorpio with hunter.

Start with keeper, end with hunter.

[static sky]

Sebastian banks created constellation. He vanished during a mission, but constellation first time they know avout artifact is barrett

[cobalt saffron]

The pilgrim was NOT asking deep philosophical questions -- he was simply laying a trail of clues to his location for US to follow. They knew we would be along eventually.

[static sky]

Or maybe, if pilgrim is hunter, he just mess with emissary, which is a constellation member.

[cobalt saffron]

he could have kept his own knowledge of them from the rest

the whole thing is on a loop

[static sky]

Unlikely

[cobalt saffron]

part of what we are doing is watching time loop over and over again in different multiverses

and being given the chance to change outcomes

[static sky]

Another comment : you start your new journey where you saw your first artifact

Others comments argue than unity grant immortality but not invulnerability

Keeper is older than religions, which are older than a normal man life

The hunter is the great snake 😱🤣

Someone say the pilgrim grave is starborn sebastian banks

[keen acorn]

I agree - The Hunter's goal is obtaining all the artifacts for himself.

[static sky]

If you side with him, he ask you to take out the keeper, which doesn’t make sense if his only focus is the artifact.

Maybe he leave the artifact here because it’s messing with the emissary, victor is himself so he take him out & this is his spawn point (1st artifact) so he leave it here

[keen acorn]

But you already have the artifact. So why would the other Hunter care.

[silk lotus]

He says it's to tie up loose ends. Maybe he scared that the keeper could turn him away from the unity. That his future self could convince him to take another path. Or he's just scared to end up like the keeper.

Or because the keeper is actually stronger than the hunter but is too chill to use his powers. Like paarthunax. A monk who chooses not to pursue violence even if they have the power to make it far.

[keen acorn]

There could be countless other Hunter is other NG+'s. So many complications. LOL

[static sky]

Idk but he really want to.

[tiny pelican]

Take a look at the walls of the pilgrims rest on Indum. The sketches on the wall bring some interesting questions.

[slate valley]

The Hunter does NOT tell you to go to NASA. That is the EMISSARY. Don't know what the hell the above conversation was all about.
Also the very first time I went to NASA way back in October or November, there was a colt 1911 lying next to Aiza. But it's been missing ever since. A bug perhaps.

I believe Aiza unalived himself based on the slates and terminals, especially his last entry. The death confession.

[rich zenith]

@rigid kiln there is new info in this

[fallen kiln]

You can ask Aquilas about that. He says he's not surprised, and that it's what he would have done before he turned his back on Unity

If you press him he says something like "imagine there's someone out there that looks just you but does everything wrong for reasons that make no sense. It's infuriating!"

I seem to recall you can ash the Hunter why, as well. He says something like "if you ever meet yourself you might understand"

I think Aquilas is the Hunter's version of an Evil You glitch. At least from the Hunter's perspective.

[rigid kiln]

I know, I woke up at 4 am and edited the wiki 😭

https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Lore:House_Va'ruun

[rigid kiln]

Alsp they got jareks death date wrong

[delicate hazel]

Or they got it right this time and it was wrong previously

[rigid kiln]

Why didn't bgs update the timeline then

[high copper]

Was it only in the video by Tempus?

[keen acorn]

The general thought is Aquilas was alive on Earth. The first maybe. The Hunter is another Aquilas from another NG+ universe. And yes I have done the various choices with Aquilas dialogues. For reference - I am level 536 on my 3rd character. I lost count how many times I have NG+ since SEP 2023.

[rigid kiln]

Yes the timeline states jarek died in 2298 and that anasko begon experimenting in 2302, while the video says he died in 2303

So I went with the official timeline for the wiki since that made more sense

And well, official source rather than commisioned video

[safe kite]

Good call.

[lilac lake]

I found this Bethesda sponsored video. I think they have access to additional information that what I know but it is very insightful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOOOezfEmP4

[high copper]

I think there is a few new lore pieces but overall it’s what we already know

[scenic loom]

yeah its been toss around on here yesterday
good stuff

[lilac lake]

After watching the "All Must Serve" animation, it makes me wonder if the DLC is somekind of Cosmic Horror Mystery. If so, I am so excited and looking forward to it

[scenic loom]

sounds like it will be

[high copper]

Just don’t expect a fight with a god like being

[lilac lake]

gotcha on that

[scenic loom]

sounds like something for the final story expansion, mayhaps?

[high copper]

To me personally the moment you add a god you can kill, it starts to ruin everything else as where do you go from there

[lilac lake]

I could imagine that there is a "behind the scenes with science" that makes the illusion of a god or something and that you gotta uncover it though

[scenic loom]

if anything, it might be like one part of the main quest where we fight a hoard of enemies, instead of a god-like being
and i agree

id prefer if the "gods/creators" remain a mystery

[lilac lake]

agreed

[high copper]

Depending how the narrative goes Kessic Mohar could be the main antagonist, unless we can side with him

Maybe some boss creature from the vortex

[scenic loom]

🇼
All must swerve the gweat swerpent!

[high copper]

No

[scenic loom]

hmmmm
after watching the above video

a few questions come to mind...

• Are there lower houses besides the ones mentioned under House Va'ruun and the minor Houses?
• Which of the houses does Andreja belong to?

[lilac lake]

I was wondering if Andreja had a last name and which house it would refer to.... or are the 'houses' represents the noblity or upper class and the rest of the populace had other names....

[scenic loom]

my moneys on the warrior house

House Veth'aal

[lilac lake]

I wonder if we get to meet Andreja's family and how they would be

[scenic loom]

same
i have two playthroughs on the ready, one where i married her

[lilac lake]

I'm working on a video and created a 4 min intro that explains what I've done to prepare for the DLC... I posted it in chat and plan to take it down in a few days when the rest of the video is created.

[rigid kiln]

Is House Veth'aal warriors? Did I miss that somewhere?

[scenic loom]

Zahir mentions that they are likely the warrior house
think it says so in the video above

okay it doesnt, but based on what we see its likely they are the guardians of House Va'ruun since they are loyal to them

[rich zenith]

It talks about the the different houses in much more detail and basically confirms its a feudal-like system

There's an official council that rules but if a house has enough support they are the de facto leader

House varuun has always been the house with the most support

Reminds me of the Targaryns always being the house leading in game of thrones. Before there downfall

[solemn bough]

That's just I a theory I posited last night

[rich zenith]

The commerce base house sounds interesting

[fallen kiln]

I'm fairly certain it's the other way around.The Hunter came first, then he went to Pilgrim's Rest, then he became Aquilas. The Pilgrim's books don't make sense the other way around.

So from the Hunter's POV. Aquilias hasn't happened yet. Not on his timeline. So running into Aquilas in New Atlantis must be a bit like running into Evil Me in the Lodge.

[static sky]

It’s like kang running into immortus.

[fallen kiln]

Is that right?

[static sky]

Kang is a conqueror like the hunter & immortus try to fix the errors of his past. They usually fight each others.

[fallen kiln]

OK. But the Hunter still has to exist before the Keeper, on their own subjective timelines. The Hunter has no memory of being the Keeper, so Aquilas' motives and actions seem to him to be incomprehensible and perverse. Whereas the Keeper can remember being the Hunter and so understands the Hunter's motivations perfectly

[static sky]

And it’s exactly the same for kang & immortus.

Immortus/keeper are retired warlord while kang/hunter are still on a killing spree

Immortus/keeper have been kang/hunter in their past

[fallen kiln]

The Hunter shows no sign of understanding the Keeper, or of remembering any of the Keeper's experiences. The Keeper does remember being the Hunter. And the writings in Pligrim's Rest describe someone turning away from strife and violence towards peaceful contemplation

Offline there - messages sent in the wrong order.

[ashen seal]

I know we don’t have much info on the Starborn yet, but I’d like to toss my theory into the fire, when a starborn is killed by another starborn or those with the power of one, their essence is absorbed, but the person, their souls even, I like to think they are reborn as a human in the universe they died in somewhere down the line

Or they return to the Unity and are reborn in a whole other universe

[jaunty ginkgo]

Welp, there goes my guess

[novel sparrow]

They come back to the last save

[static sky]

Yeah, because keeper is the future of hunter. Pilgrim is their transition.

[rigid kiln]

Happy for them 🏳️‍⚧️

[ashen seal]

How about no.

[static sky]

Who is john banks ? They say sebastian banks, founder of constellation, is their ancestor. So, this john is someone still alive ? Did i missed some npc ?

[silk lotus]

We never see or meet John.

[silk lotus]

I think John was a explorer higher in the banks family tree and Sebastian followed in his footsteps. I could be mixing things up though. The only time we hear of John is from a loading screen.

[unreal geyser]

CARGO LINKS, i managed to complete 1 but now it has stopped working. I have removed the cargo and put it back, I have deleted the link landing pad and reinstalled and still refuses to complete. The cargo ship lands and stays there. I even removed the link and tried again.

[crystal zealot]

https://discord.com/channels/784542837596225567/1146512307753590956

[manic igloo]

I can imagine Sebastian Banks may be part of some future mystery, perhaps in a DLC or a future game, given his elusive disappearance after he left on his expedition in 2283. John Banks isn’t really mentioned much at all. I think only the Spanish wiki references him.

[fallen kiln]

I'm unaware of any evidence of a Keeper->Hunter transition. Aquilas acknowledges the temptation is there, but that's about it. Whereas Pilgrim's Rest and Aquilas' dialogue is evidence that the Hunter->Keeper transition has happened.

[static sky]

I never said anything about keeper becoming hunter, only the opposite.

I tried to talk them out of it yesterday, and hunter say « i’m too old for this » when you suceed.

Maybe it’s you who convinced them to retire 🤣

[silk lotus]

I did say that the keeper is stronger than the hunter because I interpret the keeper as a wiser and older/end state of the hunter?

[static sky]

Yeah. A retired hunter.

[daring lake]

"Suddenly I feel the weight of years"

[static sky]

As i said before, it’s a great parallel with marvel, but y’all don’t seems to know kang 😔

[fallen kiln]

I misread your earlier comment.

And I'm still not convinced that Kang and Marvell is a good example of anything. That continuity and lore has been messed around with more than Doctor Who. Which is saying quite a lot.

[static sky]

Doctor who doesn’t have the « evil turned good » like kang.

Kang is really a great example of it, because kang is exactly like hunter. Travel through space & time to conquer (kang the conqueror) & then retire, become immortus, who try to fix the errors of his past, making himself, the hero & the villain of himself. They constantly fight each others.

Keeper doesn’t try to stop hunter but hunter want you to kill keeper.

[fallen kiln]

I never said it did

[static sky]

Yeah, but kang has the same thing than hunter

How does you get the free star role

[fallen kiln]

I honestly can't remember. I thought it was from the channels and roles topic, but that doesn't seem to work.

[clever acorn]

Hey was talking to myself and found out I have a sister named Elise. Can we meet her anywhere?

She's apparently in the sysdef

[silk lotus]

Other us has a different life than we do. We dont have a sister but the other us does.

[static sky]

What quest is this

[silk lotus]

New game plus variant we meet another variety of our character.

[clever acorn]

Not a quest. It's a ng+ unique universe where you actually meet yourself at constellation (there are two, one where every "member" is a different version of you, not the one I'm talking about and one where you actually meet the you who joins constellation like you did in the first game). You can hire your other you on as crew and play the game. You can meet your parents (actually his parents technically since its ng+) if you have that starter perk but in discussion with you you learn he has a sister and a brother very close to him.

[clever acorn]

I was asking if we can meet her anywhere.

[silk lotus]

That's a no.

[static sky]

That’s cool. But we don’t.

[static sky]

Maybe in that specific universe ?

Probably don’t exist as existing npc tho

[clever acorn]

That sucks they fleshed her out gave her a name and back story and even slight foreshadowing of her reaction to meeting us.

[static sky]

To make it more real i guess ?

[clever acorn]

Probably just seems like to much of a missed opportunity. Oh well.

[static sky]

If you have the parents perks in the constellation you universe, which one of them is the local one ? 🤣

[clever acorn]

Are you asking if the parents you meet in the ng+ universe are yours?

[scenic loom]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-our-now-gif-21036569

Ours

[clever acorn]

Uh... anyway, no the parents you meet in the other you universe belong to him not you but they do not have any alternate interactions even if you bring other you with you to "meet your parents". Was a little disappointed about it. I gave the gifts they gave me to the other me out of respect lol

[scenic loom]

Yeah, I doubt we would get much from the traits, would have been nice to see more with the parents but that most likely will just be base game stuff

I'd like to hope we either get more traits or the traits expand later on

[clever acorn]

I don't doubt it we'll see in a few days. I'm just hoping my mods don't all break with the DLC. I'm pretty hyped about it either way.

[static sky]

No, they’re not. In the constellation you, which one is the local

[static sky]

« Sup mom, here’s me & my tens multiverse twins »

[scenic loom]

lmao
mom would freak

[daring lake]

@static sky Get you roles here 🙂 #server-roles

[static sky]

Traits are useless. I was very disappointed by the freestar trait.

[static sky]

« I’m stoping wine »

[scenic loom]

yeah a few of those are mostly just for extra dialogue or buffs
but i do like the ones that additional content, like Adoring fan and your parents

i did enjoy wanted, tho it can get annoying at times

[static sky]

Thanks

[static sky]

I picked wanted and got them only like twice

[clever acorn]

What does wanted do?

[scenic loom]

oh its very random
i sometimes get stopped in orbit or randomly on the surface but yeah, they dont show up
but i feel like its different in some playthroughs

depending on how it goes you either get them more or rarely

[static sky]

Put a bounty on your head

[scenic loom]

sometimes mercs (almost always Ecliptic) will come after you

[static sky]

I guess it’s good on long run, because the bounty say it’s getting bigger every week

[scenic loom]

but you get more damage when your health goes low

[clever acorn]

Is it a fine you can pay off or just always wanted all the time?

[static sky]

So supposedly, you’ll get attacked more often the longer it goes on

[static sky]

No, it’s not a real bounty you can pay

[scenic loom]

does it?
I used it in a now deleted playthrough but i never bothered to check if you can
i felt like they were just telling you and the game is making you think it is

[clever acorn]

Interesting I'll have to try that out

Sounds fun

[static sky]

I have no idea either. I had it on a short run

[scenic loom]

the native and religious traits dont sound impressive to me
but hey, they do give your character some background and some added dialgoue at least

[static sky]

Not worth it

[scenic loom]

gotcha

welp, heres hoping we do see them get expanded

[static sky]

No trait is worth it

[scenic loom]

yeah, im cool with mostly using Adoring fan and your parents

[high copper]

I wouldn’t mind adding new traits that are no more than simple game modifiers for your character

[rigid kiln]

Wdym serpents embrace is both based and useful

[static sky]

I had adoring fan on my first game. Pretty sure he’s a starborn since he know all the things about you 🤣

[scenic loom]

i used it before, but sadly it got annoying when i dont jump enough
but no worries bestie, ill used it when i do a Va'ruun run 🇼

[scenic loom]

lmao
i would love for that to be Canon

[static sky]

You mean a va’run

[scenic loom]

thats a good one

[clever acorn]

In the skill tree I didn't realize how helpful the engineering skill was until I unlocked it. The random space encounters for me are nine times out of ten the one where "my grav drive isn't working and I need some iron" the engineering trait let's you tell them to fix it by powering down and back on no iron needed lol

[static sky]

Once shattered space is out, there will no va’ruun alive to see the traits

[static sky]

Really ? Interesting.

Yeah, skills give dialogue options that are way more useful than traits

[scenic loom]

oh wow, didnt know that
holy smokes, theres still things i didnt know about? ... in a Bethesda game?

[rigid kiln]

Average FC space cowboy brain

[static sky]

You can get out of any situations with skills

[rigid kiln]

Not even a real faction 😭

[static sky]

Yeehaw, partner

[static sky]

Va’ruun ? I agree

[scenic loom]

We are the faction

[clever acorn]

Wish I could use my avatar as my faction in here lol

[static sky]

What you mean ?

[scenic loom]

give it time
im sure some mod will let you do just that haha

[rigid kiln]

I wish I could build my own theocracy far away from the stinky UC and FC

[static sky]

That’s va’ruun

[scenic loom]

Bestie, just make mods

[high copper]

Va’ran away

[clever acorn]

Colonial Marines man they the best!

[static sky]

Hey, with shattered stars, you will be able to launch a second crusade !

[static sky]

I totally gonna try that on a run

[high copper]

Maybe In shattered stars but I don’t know about shattered space

[static sky]

« Heya, i’m the one you called heretic. Let’s bring back crusades »

[rigid kiln]

Va'ruun is based but not based enough

[static sky]

What’s not enough with va’ruun ?

[static sky]

What

[clever acorn]

Wait what does my avatar look like in here to you guys?

[scenic loom]

dont ask, she's got a thing for more... darker content

[scenic loom]

Starfield but made in Murica

[rigid kiln]

Nah I'm not fan off the whole murder bit

But that's what you get when you worsjip the void I guess 🤷‍♀️

[scenic loom]

you right
cannabalism and heir-making is where its at

[static sky]

American constellation

[static sky]

I’m curious

[clever acorn]

Oh ok someone said crusade and I thought you could still see my old avatar where I'm wearing a crusader helmet lol

[rigid kiln]

Nothing wrong with cannibalism

[scenic loom]

[static sky]

@rigid kiln give me your perfect faction

[scenic loom]

the Chunks Empire

[rigid kiln]

What? Humans can consent other animals can't

[scenic loom]

skill issue
but iight, i aint gonna stop them

[clever acorn]

Cats can consent quite well, try petting a pissed of cat they will very easily tell you no haha

[daring lake]

sip ☕

[static sky]

Stay free, as freestar you would say

[rigid kiln]

Not really a democracy fan

[static sky]

I figured

This is so paradoxal, my head went boom, i almost lost my dark brown cowboy hat. Yeehaw !

[clever acorn]

Sarah M: "I have something for you"

Me: Oh great... you're gonna give me another stick...

[scenic loom]

gives me forks

[clever acorn]

Like collectable forks? Or plastic forks?

Cause I'd take a nice fork over a usless twig any day lol

[scenic loom]

plastic
he's not the brightest but he is dedicated to give you stuff

[clever acorn]

Not a fan of Barrett but the food he gives me looks pretty freaking good sooo

Hes my ships cook now

[silk lotus]

Just use Micky caviar. That why I have him on my ship.

Hireable crew found at the astral long with imo a cool backstory.

[static sky]

I stopped talking to crew, i even forgot i had them 🤣

[silk lotus]

I use a mod to make the unnamed crew better. Now the unnamed crew have rank 3 of their area of expertise.

[static sky]

And i stopped getting followers because if you board eclipse or crimson ships, sometimes, the captain is « security » or whatever, which is considered neutral & they get mad at you for killing neutrals (they get mad at you even when they kill them) and i was tired of that

[silk lotus]

I like how they treat you respectfully as a captain, with decorum.

[static sky]

Let him cook, smuggler know how to cook

[static sky]

I got a ship to go places but i wouldn’t consider myself a captain

That’s probably the freestar spirit

[clever acorn]

Micky Caviar huh I'll go search him out I like cool back stories.

[mint fox]

so i’ve been thinking about something that’s got me stumped and maybe it’s just handwaved with “it’s a game” but how does GalBank keep all of their ATMs in sync with your balance, etc. with no inter-system communication?

[static sky]

What you mean, no inter-system ?