#starfield-mods

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vocal glacier
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News about the creation kit for Starfield will be coming soon. Probably at the upcoming press event. I'm hoping we get a Creation Kit direct presentation.

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Something that will show off the ability to edit things that the xEdit folks claims is not editable.

azure wren
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Yeah, keeping my expectations tempered but I am very curious what the new features of creation kit 2.0 will bring especially since supposedly it will allow mod authors to build their own planets which isn't really possible from my understanding in xEdit.

upbeat furnace
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It will probably be exactly like previous CKs but will more cells.

vernal dew
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There are no "personal mods". If you upload to Beth.net it has to be publicly viewable.

ocean quartz
eager ether
charred magnet
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Hey guys I copy and pasted a bunch of mods weeks ago using the .ini method pasting to user—>my docs file location. Now trying to get back to starfield after weeks of hiatus.. and I forgot how to launch the game with mods

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I know I can’t just launch it normally from steam. I’m forgetting that I have to manually launch the game from .exe file location?

shrewd ruin
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Goody?

vernal dew
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That looks way more thought out and functional than anything I would build.

shrewd ruin
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it actually looks like the restroom section of a swimming pool

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you know, after a good dive in a lunar swimming pool one needs to have a decent shower

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Finish saunas have nothing on lunar pools

eager ether
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Any chance someone knows how to adjust wind physics for armour

Eg want the cape bits to flow more …dramatically in weathers that have wind etc

Can’t for life of me remember how (not messed with these since fo4 modding some time ago)

shrewd ruin
lyric finch
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Got a suggestion

Mod to reskin the Starborn Guardian ship into a Lambda class Imperial shuttle

eager ether
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Oooh

regal dust
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I'd imagine once the creation kit is out we'll get M Class Star Destroyers. I'd hope we could mod it so instead of landing a massive Star Destroyer you use a lander instead, such as the aforementioned Lambda Class Shuttle.

viral shadow
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I also hope we’ll get some Star Trek ships

eager ether
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Oh yeah

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Some borg stuff

indigo marsh
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Anyone know if there's WryeBash type tool in development for Starfield?

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Not being able to merge level lists automatically will be a real drag for large mod lists

bright sable
indigo marsh
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I had no clue. Havn't touched it since setting up my Skyrim VR playthrough well before SF was released

crimson aurora
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Mod idea: The vendors are replaced by robots, so we can explain in-universe why they barely leave their shops.

vernal dew
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Terrabrew is just that good.

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#headcanonned

crimson aurora
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Mod idea: In every shop there is a large stack of Terrabrew cups and to-go containers, so we can explain in-universe why the vendors rarely leave their shops.

crimson aurora
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Actually, how do you change NPC models? I kind of want to do it myself, changing vendors from NPCs to robots.

vernal dew
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Most of the vendors have editable records. You can change their outfit looks and whatnot relatively easily. However changing their voice lines or replacing them with another NPC is a bit more complicated. Plus you'd have a hard time making them sound like a Model A robot or something in-game.
At least as far as I understand the game.

crimson aurora
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No need to change the voice, just the model. I'm mostly doing it for myself.

mental estuary
proud forum
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You should be able to change the race to whatever the robot race is. I have to wait for the CK so I'm not sure if robots are set up like FO4's with customizable armor that's set up like weapons or if they're done as a single body mesh like humanoid NPCs. It might be easy or it might be slightly more complicated as Deus says. Then select the voice type that is the same as any of the vendors if you aren't going to do custom dialogue.

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Changing the race changes the model.

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(at least it should)

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In the CK there's a dropdown for race. I only have Game Pass so no access to xEdit so couldn't tell you how to set it up there.

vernal dew
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From what I've seen the robots are all single body meshes. There is a color variance, but I'm sure that can be set.

proud forum
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Aww. Now I’m sad. FO4’s robots and customization is really neat. I was hoping they expanded it to further do stuff for other actor types.

Plus, I’d like to be able to have a robot factory in my outpost.

vernal dew
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I mean, they added the customizable robots to FO4. Could happen in Starfield too.

proud forum
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They were already set up with modularity though with object templates like weapon mods but for actor forms. I was also hoping they’d expand the furniture functionality but can’t see what it would be needed for since there isn’t power armor chassis.

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The actual ingame customization was cool too. Automatron is my favorite DLC.

vernal dew
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It's also what makes VASCO such a poor companion. You can't upgrade his weapons or defenses and his skill seems to cap out pretty low. Level 30 or so I think.

old tiger
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I don't think this is a game engine issue. It's just a question of the right game data. So what are you waiting on Bethesda for?

bright sable
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we lazy🤣

gusty bramble
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Can someone port over Inigo from Skyrim please?

brittle tinsel
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is there a mod out there to fix the cam during the dialogs

drowsy bay
brittle tinsel
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no just make a more dinamic camera with more angles and better overhaul

gaunt lotus
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Do we know if starfield will be getting a built in mod menu like skyrim and fallout 4?

fluid carbon
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Yes it will @gaunt lotus

gaunt lotus
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Yay

brittle tinsel
fluid carbon
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This very page, scroll up to the first few posts and read for yourself

regal dust
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This may be a way out there question for now since CK 2.0 isn't out yet, but would it be possible to add Traits to the game which are the opposite of the current method of "Taking this religion means you can't take the others"? I think I might want to make a "Trait Pack" for a certain playstyle, where you can only select the other handful of related Traits if you have the base one. My idea is to add a third body type, Android and make Traits that are only available with the base Android Trait. This is all speculative at the moment as CK 2.0 is not out yet.

bright sable
regal dust
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Okay, thanks. I wasn't sure if anyone else had played around with the files as much yet to see. I'd still wait for CK 2.0 though for working on it. I'm setting up custom eye and tattoo textures at the moment and planning what Traits are what, hard to tell with total effects in game being unknown.

bright sable
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hmm wonder if trophihunter would port his android race tbh...

strong oriole
vernal dew
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I meant without mods.

crimson aurora
old tiger
regal dust
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SF1Edit still looks a little beyond me. I've used Skyrim/Fallout 4's Creation Kit before but that looks a little beyond what I'm used to. I found the old CK spelled out better what I was doing.

late valley
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well, you won't be using the old CK for SF1, so it would be a good idea to start learning

regal dust
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Yeah, but CK 2 I hope will be at least a little more intuitive. Does SF1Edit have categories and such or is it mostly Papyrus?

old tiger
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WUT?

late valley
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categories? papyrus? xedit is basically excel on steroids for game data.

regal dust
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Sorry, my modding grammar is a little limited

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I know how to use CK to add items, character parts and abilities but adding in scripts as of now is beyond me.

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I'm also unsure of the changes they'll be making for CK2

late valley
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the creation kit is fundamentally the same as TESCS/GECK with incremental changes to support each game released in the intervening years. CK2 will be fundamentally the same as the CK with incremental changes to support starfield.

regal dust
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I see. That is what I'm used to.

late valley
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you don't need to know papyrus to make plugins, but you do need to know papyrus to do things that require papyrus. you would need to know papyrus in those cases regardless of whether you were using xedit or the CK.

vernal dew
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It's visual vs text editing. A lot of people are better with CK's visualizer when building. Not everyone is used to doing it via text coding.

late valley
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xEdit represents game data visually with rows and columns. the CK represents the same game data with forms.

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often inefficient, complex, and slow forms that all could be duplicated in xEdit if anyone wanted that.

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where the CK distinguishes itself is the world editor and other 3D visualizations.

vernal dew
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Yes, the visualizer.

old tiger
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And nothing that A-Money talked about, and which I said can all be done, involves editing cells and their contents.

regal dust
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True

queen gyro
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I am running on an Xbox and I want the possibility to buy a star station rework it how you want it vendors ship manufacturer stuff like that

gusty bramble
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Is there any news on when mods will be available for Xbox?

vocal glacier
gusty bramble
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I hope it's not soon in Valve™ time. I'm still waiting on half life 3

old tiger
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No worries. It's not. It's not going to be THAT fast.

vocal glacier
# gusty bramble I hope it's not soon in Valve™ time. I'm still waiting on half life 3

Supposedly, updates tyo Starfield will be coming on a six week cycle starting in February. It stands to reason that one such update will be needed to ensure everything needed to handle official mod support will be in place, including the Starfield branch of the Creations Platform now available for Skyrim. We were told that official mod support would be coming in early 2024. I'm hoping that will mean one of the updates between now and April 30. I'm hoping, for the sake of Starfield's health, that it will come in the first 6-week cycle update. Not holding my breath, but I am hoping.

xEdit is a fine tool, but Bethesda (read Microsoft) will not be allowing mods created with 3rd party tools to be part of the Creations program, monetized by the creators or not. See they want all mods available through the creations platform to be compatible with the XBox consoles. That is what I see them classifying as official mod support. This means, only mods created with the Creation Kit and using official tools Bethesda releases. What happens beyond their controlled creation and deployment environment will be up to the modding community. But as mediocre as Starfield is as a core game, it will need mod support on the consoles to keep it alive. From my chair they cannot afford to hold out too much longer before allowing Creators access to the tools.

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Something to consider. The people who are in the verified creator program for Skyrim may already have access, under NDA to the Starfield branch of Creation Kit 2 and may already be working on the first paid creations that will be made available on day one of official mod support. After all, the program would be worthless out of the gate if it didn't launch with content already available. We know that creations by themselves will not require a game update to obtain. They will be available for purchase/free download the moment the creators consider them ready and deploys them. But without an initial library of ready-to-play creations on day one, it's not going to have the momentum it needs out of the gate.

If my assumption of Starfield verified creations being developed under NDA is correct, launch of the creation kit and official mod support may be waiting for those projects to be ready. It also stands to reason that those hypothetical creators under NDA are engaging with Bethesda on fine-tuning the new CK and tools that will be available. They are going to NEED Starfield's verified creator program to be successful. After all, so much of the decade-long run of Starfield that they want rides on the creator community. They cannot afford to screw this up out of the gate. It needs to work right if it is to be used in meaningful quantity. And its launch needs to happen with a library of select creations that showcase what can be done, over and above what the game launched with, in order to spark the fire of creative interest and jumpstart Starfield's officially supported modding communiy.

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There's a lot Bethesda still needs to fix. But as with all of the previous creation engine titles, the creators in the community will outshine anything Bethesda does in terms of DLCs and official creations, and will keep players interested in the game long-term. Everything about Starfield at launch screams "Here's our new IP. Let's see what we all can do with it in the months and years to come."

late valley
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plugins created and modified in xEdit have 100% parity with plugins created and modified in the CK. any suggestion that you can't use xEdit for Xbox mods is simply wrong. you will only need the CK to upload to Bethesda.net as the CK is the only authorized client with that capability.

vernal dew
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Yeah, unless Bethesda does something crazy with Starfield's mod tool there isn't a way I could think of you couldn't just load an archive created with xEdit into it and then publish to Beth.Net. That's pretty much what porting mods from PC to console is.
Load mod files.
Publish.

wintry tree
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When are mods coming to console?

vernal dew
vocal glacier
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We don't have an official anaswer to that question.

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Aside from Early 2024

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I define Early as Jan-April. Bethesda may define it as Jan-June.

old tiger
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Or Jan-Nov

eager ether
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Early is 3 months so jan - March mid is 6months June - September then end is October - December

So every 6weeks is just under two months
We’re ment to be getting …updates 🤔

Now that knowledge alone

If we’re still getting mods or mods kit early it can still happen in March (that’s a big if)

However don’t hold ya breath

shrewd ruin
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March-April is my bet.

vocal glacier
# eager ether Early is 3 months so jan - March mid is 6months June - September then end is Oc...

Where Bethesda is concerned, I never hold my breath. Personally, I think they are handling the creator program completely wrong, if the way it's being done in Skyrim will be the same as it will be in Starfield. The problem isn't the program itself, but rather the way the creations are presented in-game. And I have an issue with the non-transparency of the royalty percentage. If they cannot be up-front about the money side of things, it makes me wonder how little it is in the creator's favor compared to their cut. Like if everyone could see the numbers, would it spark opposition to getting involved at all?

I know that this is not the creator program channel. However, the creator program will clearly be the backbone of mod integration for Starfield once official support goes live, whenever that will be. Bethesda/Microsoft are counting on the program being PROFITABLE. That means they are counting on a large enough segment in the creator community to be profit-motivated as well. Todd Howards words have repeatedly been "modding as a career path." Before the creator program was announced and explained (partially), some held to the idea that he meant that if modders did good enough work, Bethesda might hire them to work on future games. And while that may well be true, it is clear now that we know what the VC program is, that this is what they were talking about.

Under the program, the VCs and Bethesda are yoked together. I see it as a business partnership. And in a true partnership, one partner does not just get peanuts as their share.

azure wren
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I mean I like the way they set up the program but I guess that's just me. I think it provides much needed opportunities for revenue generation and support of creations(mods) while getting rid of the randomness of support systems like Patreon we have right now. It incentivizes updates and support beyond current systems for paid mods and provides a level of QA, considering the number of Modder's that have gone on to work for Bethesda directly or gone to work on other games I would say it's still a path to a video game career.

vocal glacier
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One way or another, I plan to get involved with modding Starfield WHEN the official mod support happens and we see how all the pieces fit together with indie moding and the VC program. No matter what, I will start out with free mods. I will build my portfolio on Starfield, and if my work is well-received, I'll use that portfolio to apply for the VC program. But, whether I actually move forward or not will be based on what the revenue split is. The lowest I am willing to accept is 50%. Because when you are in a PARTNERSHIP, you have a real split of the profits. Not just some pittance of a split. See Bethesda woul be drawing 50% from ALL mods sold. I'd only be drawing 50% from my mods.

If it is less than that, then I might as well just stick to free mods, or go indie mods for PC only, and just accept donations from anyone who might consider them worth paying for.

See it's not about how much or how little the players would pay. It's about how much Bethesd/Microsoft will take from the person giving them yet another revenue source.

a 50/50 split is fair. Especially when the words "career path" are thrown around byt the big guy. It's not a career path if the people doing all the work can't even get half of the price they puts on it.

vocal glacier
# azure wren I mean I like the way they set up the program but I guess that's just me. I thin...

I do see what you are saying. But we all know that modding is what carries these games for decades. Morrowind is still actively modded and played to this day, more than 20 years after it launched. Skyrim has continued to march strongly on for 12 years. Bethesda is on record as saying that Starfield, more than Skyrim and Fallout 4, is designed for a long run, supported by both official DLC and community content. This tells me that they are seeking a strong profit-generating model. And we know that unless their internal design paradigm has shifted, we won't be seeing significantly regular DLC releases.

Maybe at first. But as they shift focus fully towards TES6, it will be the VC program that will carry Starfield for the long haul. That being the case, half of the revenue is more than reasonable at the minimum. Personally, I think that it should jump up to 75% for the creator when Bethesda shifts away from producing regular content DLCs After all, at that point, it will be the VC program carrying the entire weight of the post-launch content creation process.

See they are looking at this as a business venture. Cretors hoping to make money for their efforts need to look at it the same way, and see their involvement with Bethesda as a business relationship.

azure wren
# vocal glacier I do see what you are saying. But we all know that modding is what carries these...

As someone who has done equity and rev sharing deals(not in modding but in software and other area's before). It generally is not as much a percentage game as it is a leverage of scale game. Even if it's 15 or 20% if the scale can hit all the Xbox users who have not or don't use mods the scale of the number of people in the pie you can sell to from a marketing perspective is much higher. Phone apps that sell for $1.99 work very much in the same way, so I think some of the mods will depend on overall reach, I saw an estimate at one point that only 8% of Skyrim players have ever used mods, I am not sure if that is before or after mods were released on Xbox as I have no doubt that increased the overall market. I am sure that regardless of percentages if the scale and pie can equal out to a creator an extra 10, 50, 100k/year in revenue there is certainly incentive there that just isn't happening on patreon if we are being honest and certainly isn't revenue that's predictable or stable. I think Starfield has a ton of potential to do this from it's setting, especially if they can get the tooling right in how they allow people to build out their own planets which solves one of the biggest issues Skyrim had with certain mods which was a clearer way to introduce new landmasses(beyond skyrim bruma did this really well but other mods definitely struggled and had issues this way).
By having it be separate planets you have a good excuse to have alien experiences without it being completely out of sync of the game realm.

vocal glacier
# azure wren As someone who has done equity and rev sharing deals(not in modding but in softw...

I had considere that as well. However, when you look at the price tag Bethesda had set on creation club content, for things that added very little in terms of playable content, many felt that it wasn't worth buying. See already the "all mods should be free" folks are not going to touch it. And that crowd is pretty bloody big. And hey. I respect their decision not to spend money on something they don't believe should cost money. That is 100% their prerogative. But the numbers they represent compared to the ones represented by folks who will buy mods, there is a more than significant disparity. Bethesda knew that and that is why the prices for insignificant Creation Club content was as high as it was. And knowing that the one-time up-front payment to the CC modder was barely a drop in the bucket, it was a totally unequitable arrangement.

Back then, CC mods were internally worked on by both the modder and then by Bethesda. There was shared effort. Any new assets had to be integrated into an update so they could work with the game. So Bethesda HAD to do internal work on every mod that was going to be included in CC.

Now, the modder will be doing all the work and will just be able to deploy it when ready, with no update to the game itself needed. All Bethesda is doing is providing a platform. But the creators will be doing all the work. To me, that entitles them to at least half of every sale. Not some trickling percentage. If a single VC generates $100k in a year, then the creator deserves at least $50k of that. THAT is career-level income.

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Like I said... Todd Howard tossed the "career path" verbiage out there... several different times. AND Bethesda has made it clear that they are expecting Starfield to have a decade-long run like Skyrim had. And that Starfield has been designed with that in mind. Which means they are expecting modders to carry the game. and they expect the VC program to be profitable. Taking all these things into context, anything less than an equal partnership with VC would be unequitable

fluid carbon
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I can make main menu loop replacers now so if anyone has a suggestion. . .

vocal glacier
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If I use Microsoft Word to write a novel, is Microsoft entitled to a cut of the profits from the sales of my novel? Microsoft Word is the framework I use to write my novel. All the work is mine. And I would have paid to use Microsoft Word, as part of the Office suite of productivity tools. If they were to start demanding a cut from my novel just because their "framework" was used to write it, That is when I would switch to something like Open Office, which costs nothing to use.

The Creation Kit is the framework in which our Creations, free of paid, will be produced. They are not taking any profits at all from those who release free mods, or who get paid in donations as indie modders not using the platform.

If I wanted to, I could produce a game in Unreal Engine 5, and Epic will only take a 5% revenue share and only if/when my game generates $1m in revenue. Before that I would get 100% of the revenue... Minus what the online store I choose to sell on takes, of course, but That's reasonable considering that store is responsible for all distribution and payment processing.

But okay... Starfield is Bethesda's IP, so they deserve a cut for using their IP. the VC program uses Microsoft's infrastructure to host and distribute our creations, so they deserve a cut of the profits. But remember. the modder does all the work on the creations. Neither Bethesda or Microsoft (technically just Microsoft) would make a penny without the work done by the modder. That being the case, technically the modder deserves the MAJORITY of the revenue split, but at the very least 50% is equitable.

Framework - 25%
Hosting/distribution platform - 25%
Creator's effort 50%

Okay... Let's do a 3-way equitable split:

Framework - 33%
Hosting/Distribution 33%
Creators' Effort - 34%

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So I hereby adjust my bare minimum expectation to 34% of the revenue share.

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It should be 50% at least, but if framework and hosting/distribution are treated as equally important and taken together result in more than 50%, then the creator's efforts should still be given a majority of a 3-way split, even if marginally so.

azure wren
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34% of 0 is 0. While 5% of 500,000 is $25,000 is all relative and as @chrome orchid points out will be up to the mod author's to determine what they make. I am curious though nothing stopping the same mod authors from having free mods and a Patreon. I could see a large mod author creating a large free mod and then addon's to their own mod as paid additions, there are lots of ways to monetize and I think this framework adds to that. Without knowing the intraties of the actual program this is all speculation anyway. "Fair" is always going to be subjective. True win-win situations are difficult and generally one party of any contract almost always benefits more.

vocal glacier
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My whole point is that under the VC program, all responsibility os on the creator. Bethesda/microsoft just sit back and rake in money for doing NOTHING but offering the platform to host and distribute, AND the right to use their IP as a springboard for profit. But no risk or responsibility. No time investment.

5% of $0 is 0. While 34% of $500,000 is $170,000 I like that number better.

azure wren
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Modder's will determine to participate or not, they can always go and make their own game.

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Yeah I am super sadden by the new news regarding Unity 😦

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Especially after the massive investment I made over the last few years into the platform despite the issues and competitors advancing faster in their technology.

vernal dew
# vocal glacier Where Bethesda is concerned, I never hold my breath. Personally, I think they ar...

How much does a level designer at Bethesda make? How about a engineer? Or a key artist?
We don't know, companies don't divulge the salaries of their employees as that's bad practice. Sure things like GlassDoor give you an idea, but we never know really.
Plus this rule of not saying comes from Microsoft as this is part of their incentivization program. I don't think TrainWiz should have to say how much they are making off of their Verified Creation. That wouldn't help anyone.

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In most digital marketplaces the marketplace usually doesn't take more than 30%. The 70% goes to the creator. If what people have said about MS' program is true then it's sliding scale. Similar to how Unreal works. The more profit generated, the more the platform holder takes.

vocal glacier
# azure wren Modder's will determine to participate or not, they can always go and make their...

Yes. They can. And some probably will. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Bethesda-killer were to be born simply because the VC program didn't offer enough of an incentive to a creator who figured, "Well, I'll just form a team of like-minded folks, grab Unreal Engine and set about creating our own framework. Steam will be happy to distribute it... And the Epic Store, and Itch.io. And (insert any other online store here)."

Because like it or not, Bethesda is not really in a good place as far as overall public opinion in terms of quality of games. They've been losing ground for a while. The got lucky with Skyrim.

If they were to be as generous as possible with the VC program, then Starfield could be turned into a long-term-profitable venture for all concerned. But if the people doing the most work and assuming the most responsibility cannot get at least 34% of the revenue split across the board, then it just means fewer will consider it worth all the time and effort and responsibility involved.

There's a reason why Unreal Engine has such a massive reach and volume of usage. Epic is not greedy when it comes to the cut its users get, and the amount of leeway they are given before even having to start paying the 5% split. Most won't hit the $1M mark for YEARS, if ever. The ones that do hit it will not feel much of a sting when the split kicks in. Especially if they will have wisely deducted 5% from the free million and put it into an interest-generating buffer that they could draw from when the split takes effect. Being allocated from unsplit revenue, it cannot be considered new revenue and therefore would not count towards the monthly post-split revenue.

vocal glacier
# vernal dew How much does a level designer at Bethesda make? How about a engineer? Or a key ...

According to chatGPT:
Salaries for level designers in the game development industry can vary based on factors such as experience, location, the size of the game development studio, and the specific project they are working on. As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, junior level designers might earn around $50,000 to $70,000 per year, while mid-level designers could earn between $70,000 and $90,000. Senior level designers with significant experience may earn $90,000 and above.

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Junior Software Engineer: $60,000 to $80,000 per year.
Mid-Level Software Engineer: $80,000 to $100,000 per year.
Senior Software Engineer: $100,000 and above per year.

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Junior or Associate Lead Artist: $70,000 to $90,000 per year.
Mid-Level Lead Artist: $90,000 to $110,000 per year.
Senior Lead Artist: $110,000 and above per year.

vernal dew
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Thank you GlassDoor, as I said.

vocal glacier
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These are based on the question "In the game development industry, what it the industry standard salary for X" where X is one of the positions you mentioned.

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It is safe to assume that Bethesda pays at least the minimum industry standard.

vernal dew
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The point is that Bethesda employee Y couldn't tell you how much they make in a public forum. It's just how large corporations work.

vocal glacier
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But we are not talking about employees. We are talking about regular folks like you and me who will be expected to carry Starfield for more than half of its full run, as Bethesda is looking for it to have a decade-long run and they've pledged support for at least five years.

vernal dew
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It's still a corporation (Microsoft) providing the payment. They don't openly discuss such things. As I said, it's possibly sliding scale so there is no percentage that can be shared.

lyric finch
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Gotta say I cannae wait for mods to go live

All of the UC becoming the Empire and having Stormtroopers guarding places

vernal dew
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Those kinds of mods won't be allowed on Xbox. I make the distinction of "allowed" because people will try to post them anyway.

vocal glacier
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It's a multi-billion dollar corporation. It can afford to pay a generous revenue share to VCs who want to get paid for the time and effort going into adding value to Microsoft/Bethesda's product. The number of sales per unit is a knowable value. Therefore a fixed percentage can be calculated and paid that takes into account the FACT that the creator is in fact giving Bethesda an opportunity to make money off work that they did not do, and the Creator retains rights to, as stipulated in the information that has officially been made available. If it's recognized as our work in name, then dammit, it needs to be recognized in terms of revenue share as well. In a way, we're licensing OUR creativity for their gain. as much as we are "licensing the use of their platform and framework. It's an equal partnership when you really look at the FACT that creators need what Bethesda offers to create what Bethesda needs to generate additional revenue. I see this as a symbiotic relationship. And symbiosis means two parties co-existing for MUTUAL advantage. and MUTUAL to me, means EQUAL.

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The bigger the slice of the pie they let the creators keep, the more creators will want to get involved and the more overall profit will be generated long-term for both parties.

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It won't matter to the folks buying the creations. $2 for a creation is still $2 regardless of how the revenue share is calculated..

vernal dew
#

Sliding scale is typically very generous. You get 100% of the profits up to X number of sales or Y total sale amount. Then it drops to say 80%, and dropping slowly till say 60%. It's more than fair, but again, you can't say what the scale is if it's different for every mod. A large mod may have a lower threshold for example than a smaller mod.

#

Verified Creators are still under NDA though, so they can't say how much they are making. This is fairly nominal.

vocal glacier
#

But if I'm doing all the work and assuming all the responsibility, then I would want at LEAST $0.68 of that $2.00

vernal dew
#

I mean, you can always say no if you don't want to release it as a Verified Creation.

#

But $0 is still $0.

vocal glacier
#

As has been pointed out, I would actually need to see the numbers associated with the deal before I agree. I'm simply saying what I consider my time and effort to be worth, bare minimum if I'm the one doing all the work that will make someone else money.. Clearly, no VC will be salaried. Which means that it falls under a 1099 arrangement. Meaning that there won't be any taxes withheld, so VCs would be responsible for claiming that as well.

#

Thing is, I could see myself doing this kind of thing full-time. And if my work is good enough that enough people buy my creations that I can actually generate enough of an income to live off of (career path level income) I would be happy to churn out as much quality content as I can as often as I can, ading constant value to Starfield and generating profits for both myself and Bethesda. But if that is not possible because Bethesda wants the lion's share of the profits and only wants to let me keep the equivilent of a dead mouse, then they will NOT benefit from my time and effort.

vernal dew
#

It's rather disingenuous to say they want the lions share when you have no idea what the share is.

vocal glacier
#

I can release my content outside of the VC program and let people donate if they like it. Sure there's a chance nobody will donate. But in that case, I would only be hoping fror money that would go to me. and would get 100% of whatever is donated. Nobody will be taking the bulk and allowing me to keep the dead mouse.

vernal dew
#

Patreon and Ko-fi both take a share. So I don't know how you'd get 100% of donations.

vocal glacier
#

It comes down to how a creator values time and effort and responsibility. Maybe they don't place much value on it. They might release a few paid creations here and there and maybe a few people will buy them. But that is not approaching the VC program like it's a career path, the way that Todd Almighty suggests. Anyone seeing it as the career path it could be will be placing real value on the time, effort and responsibility involved, and will be expecting results that fit the mold.

vocal glacier
#

As a 1099 classification, it would be something I would have to factor into my business model.

vocal glacier
#

Once the word got out about the gross disparity,, I'll venture a guess that it's when the program started to fall apart.

vernal dew
#

No, it was reviled that they got a commission, and Bethesda got all the profits. Which people assume is unfair. But as they gave so many of the CC's away for free I feel like the commission was probably fair.

#

CC was a necessary evil to get more stuff on PlayStation. Now that PS isn't a factor they can make the program more broad and more rewarding.

vocal glacier
vernal dew
#

I also think leaning on it as a "career path" is also disingenuous. No one ever said that the VC program was so you could make a living off of mods. Todd was talking about people getting the aforementioned commissions for making CC and even the modders they hired as contractors to help make Starfield.

vocal glacier
#

I don't see it that way.

#

When he talked about Starfield's modability, he saud 2 important things. That Starfield was going to be a modder's paradise, and that he wants to think of modding as a potential career path. He knew that the VC program was coming, and that was going to be the way forward. The way this was cleverly knitted together in his stastement, one cannot help but conclude: "I could make a career out of creating mods for Starfield.

#

I can only go off what has been said. If we ask Cart about it, he'll just tell us he can't answer. Only the people who know for sure are in the VC program for Skyrim, and are under NDA, otherwise we'd already know what the royalty calculations are like.

All any of us can do at this stage is just guess.

azure wren
#

Considering many modders have gone on to careers in the game industry and many modders have been hired by bethesda you could argue its already a career path.

vocal glacier
#

I know what I consider my time, effort and responsibility is worth, if others will be profiting from my application of them. And it's bare minimum of 35% ofALL revenue generated from that application. Preferably 50%.

vocal glacier
#

Here's another compromise I would be willing to make:

Instead of a royalty fee, how about Bethesda take a share in form of a markup.

If I want $1 for a creation, that's what I enter. Bethesda can make their markup 150% for all I care. The platform would take my $1 price tag and multiply that by 1.50 to get Bethesda's share and add the two together. The price would show up as $2.50 on the storefront. Someone buys it, I'd get my $1 and they would get their $1.50.

vernal dew
#

Bethesda sets the price on VC.

vocal glacier
#

This would put it on us to select a reasonable amount so that when Bethesda's markup is applied, it doesn't jack the price to the customer up ridiculously. to a point where nobody in their right mind will buy it.

vocal glacier
#

That's in the documentation

#

That means, we will only get a residual from the price we set.

vernal dew
#

Trust me, they have say in it to prevent someone from charging $100 for a mod.

vocal glacier
#

They can charge that much... But it won't sell.

#

Common sense will need to be applied.

#

Everyone has common sense. Some just habitually refuse to use it 😄

#

And if someone DOES pay that much, then Bethesda will smile and the modder will still only receive a residual amount.

#

Under the markup arrangement, if I set the price at $100, and the markup for Bethesda's share is 150%, then the posted price on the store would be $250.00 which will just get me laughed at.

#

But if I put a perfectly reasonable price so that after Bethesda's markup, people would be willing to pay for it, I get what I want per purchase, and so does Bethesda and the person buying.

red briar
#

**Hello everyone! I wanted to introduce myself as a regular Starfield modder! In last 4 months I released 126 Starfield mods! All kinds of mods, new weapons, new ship weapons, new perks, new armors, new traits and backgrounds, DLC sized content lmao! Enjoy! **

https://www.nexusmods.com/users/132105373

Nexus Mods :: InquisitorOverhaulsReturn
User :: InquisitorOverhaulsReturn

For Starfield players: stay tuned for my profile, because I plan on doing much more reworks for the game, completely new perks/new modules etc.  I mod total war games since...

vocal glacier
red briar
vocal glacier
# red briar Thank you, I really like the game! ❤️

That's good. The number of mods you have already under your belt, and your enthusiasm for the game and what can be done with it are a testimony as to Starfield's potential. This neds to be made visible. Do I have your permission to link to your Starfield content whenever I respond to "Starfiled is dead" or "Modders don't want to touch Starfield" comments?

red briar
vocal glacier
#

It will be done.

red briar
bright sable
#

you will need something like outfit studio for that

warm kernel
#

anyone around?

eternal tusk
#

We need the ability to put markings on our ships. 🙂

unkempt flax
#

Can't wait till the modding scene hits consoles!

crimson aurora
#

What is the best simpler temple puzzle mod for Vortex?

waxen stirrup
crimson aurora
#

Thanks

velvet shard
#

When are mods coming to consoles

bright sable
wintry tree
vocal glacier
#

In other words, we don't know

#

However, official mod support will be a big deal for the game, XBox or PC. So it will surely be officially announced when Bethesda is ready to share that info.

tough grail
#

I usually say 32rd, just because it messes with peoples heads. But really looking forward to what people will be able to do with the CK.

#

There are SO many mods now compared to when I last played.

#

Literally don't know where to start once I get back in 😛

vernal dew
#

Personally I like announcing things for February, 30th.

#

Which reminds me; oh man, it's a leap year.

red briar
crimson aurora
#

If I had money in my PayPal account, I would donate in a heartbeat. This is amazing.

shrewd ruin
#

a bit of fresh air flying in...

shrewd ruin
#

We adore you...

jolly sequoia
vestal crown
#

When is Creative Club coming out?

vernal dew
#

Never.

#

10 : 1 it will launch with Creations.

vocal glacier
# vestal crown When is Creative Club coming out?

Creation Club no longer exists. Going forward (active for Skyrim now) the Verified Creator program is in effect. It's integration into Starfield has not yet been officially announced, but I anticipate it coming with official mod support for Starfield, which also has not been assigned a start date.

My suggestion to you would be to review the Verified Creator program for Skyrim to get at least an idea of what to expect when Starfield receives its version of the program. It's a good bet that how it works for Skyrim will be more or less how it works for Starfield.

tawdry mango
#

I hate the creation crap

tidal tiger
#

It'd be nice to have a release date for Mod support for the xbox version soon, 'cause early 2024 means we'd have to wait until late April, early May at most. (if they want to stick to the whole 'early 2024' promise)

crimson aurora
#

What is the difference between sTestFile and Plugins.txt?

viral shadow
#

STestFile has a limit to how many numbers you can put in it which limits how many mods can be used whereas Plugins.txt doesn’t have that limit

crimson aurora
#

Thanks. I was wondering why Plugins.txt wasn't working on my PC, I had to use STestFile to get my mods to work. It turned out I downloaded the ASI version of the Plugins.txt Enabler mod when what I needed was the DLL.

old tiger
#

sTestFile goes through a compeletely different code path, can potentially load modules before official files, might not handle archives correctly and generally speaking should not be used, ever

crimson aurora
#

Got Plugins.txt finally working properly. Thanks!

regal dust
#

One thing I noticed that is different about Starfield's armor meshes and textures is that they have a lot more parts than previous titles for the armor itself. Would it be possible like with Nero's Armors for Fallout 4 to add a ton of customization options to them for meshes, much like textures? I know you could switch out textures in Fo4 on many different items with the armor skin system, but is there a way so that it changes meshes as well? Say if for instance, I wanted to add the cape from Delgado's armor to my Constellation suit I could?

#

or make a corporate business suit without gloves?

fluid carbon
regal dust
#

I could probably make an alternate though without the glove part mesh right? I want to use Masako's outfit to make a custom outfit, deleting that mesh from that and copying it over and making a new item won't mess thing up? I'd be making a new item with a different refid and everything, just a different texture and one less mesh.

fluid carbon
#

That should work, if something "mess up" then gloves will probably be on the ground and not attached to the hands. If you don't see them on the hands jump and look down.

#

This info might help if that happens- https://forums.nexusmods.com/topic/5673062-working-with-sclp-files-info-tutorial/?/topic/5673062-working-with-sclp-files-info-tutorial/?view=getlastpost

Nexus Mods Forums
Working with SCLP files [Info + Tutorial]

Now that I've made a properly working .sclp creator, along with Zilav's .sclp import script for FO4Edit, I ought to get this info noted for posterity. What are SCLP Files? SCLP files are simple, plain text files that have XYZ scaling values for certain bones. The bigger the values, the larger the...

regal dust
#

Thanks!

fluid carbon
wintry tree
#

Is there a mod that you can go underwater? Found it kinda dumb you couldn't swim underwater but in Fallout 3, Skyrim, NV, and 4 you can.

viral shadow
#

The BASE mod’s snapping is so frustrating

old tiger
#

I'm pretty sure you want to say: "bethesda's snap system in starfield which the BASE mod uses, is so frustrating"

viral shadow
#

Yeah just with base i have to cycle through so many times before it lines up where i need it hopefully we can get a mod to fix the snapping system

boreal spire
#

Is there a mod that allows you to make any weapons stronger? With FO4 I have experienced that some modded weapons are just to op and make other guns not worth using. Would be cool to be able to buff those outclassed but still cool guns to be on par. Like adding a 5% damage buff with increasingly more expensive cost with basically no limit.

autumn idol
boreal spire
distant frigate
#

Also handles weapons

charred plover
#

We need mods for weight gain and loss

#

I have eaten so much udon and chunks cheesesteaks I would have thought that my character would be obese by now

#

I wanna be fat

viral shadow
#

Just go to enhance

shrewd ruin
#

I think I've just created a real time interactive Wikipedia for Starfield...

#

244 tabs x 12 individual "journals" + image url. so in return roundabout 1.600 possible entries, and it's all on one hotkey. I can basically copy paste the page to another hotkey, slightly change the style, and have an encyclopedia for anything else besides star systems...
this one was supposed to be a "dedicated system journal"...
full support to .json save btw.

true valley
#

Hi everyone. For anyone and everyone who is planning on making "xbox series x mods", can you please make one or more of these mods(or something similar): "1. Make rank up challenges for leveling up perks(do not remember what the skills are called) optional(my only complaint is that order to level up perks further you are required to have skill points plus do/complete a rank up challenge and your progress from the previous rank up challenge, i think, is not counted)", "2. Make lockpicking easier", "3. Add auto-locking", "4. Make it alot easier to get digipicks" and "5. give us alot more carry weight(ability to carry way way more stuff)"?

gritty compass
#

Hello modders, Nobody would want to integrate this armor from "The expanse" into Starfield?

I'm on the verge to pay a 3d artist to model it for me 😭

Martianlightarmorpromoimage.webp S01E04lopezinarmor33min28sec.webp
viral shadow
shrewd ruin
#

There was a conflicting memory entry, caused by the light attachment of an actor value, on the ship event handler.

#

AMD aside. How do you get the game to run with a 3050.

proud forum
#

Seems to me they couldn’t as that is a crash log. 🥁

viral shadow
#

It usually runs fine until recently

vocal glacier
true valley
azure wren
#

Can anyone point to a good tutorial for someone who wants to start digging into modding in starfield more. I was waiting for creation kit to release but I think I want to dive in now.

sand skiff
#

Are mods for xbox out yet?

strong mauve
#

No

vocal glacier
#

Everything else is just more or less go through the motions. There are no real consequences for decisions or actions, except maybe having your companion throw shade your way.

uncut cedar
#

Please keep this on topic about mods

vocal glacier
#

So really, the only thing that serves as an obstacle are managing skill progression and inventory.

#

But yes... mods can fix that

#

And there will likely be many different ways they do, if Skyrim is any indication.

#

When the creation kit comes out, it'll all be up for grabs.

old tiger
#

I'm not sure what you think the CK will magically add in regards to being able to mod these particular things compared to the tools we already have now.

vocal glacier
acoustic parrot
#

I can’t wait to get console mods

nova patio
#

Anyone else having problems with the SFSE loader with the new update today? I have a bunch of mods dependent upon sfse. All I can say at this point is AAaaaaaarggghhhh

old tiger
strong oak
# nova patio Anyone else having problems with the SFSE loader with the new update today? I h...

As usual review old entries. A new Update requires several MODs to be updated by someone to be compatible with the new Starfield Update: SFSE, Plugins TXT, etc. takes 24 hours to 3 days before you can update them, then start going again. Believe me the owners are working on it. But from what I am seeing BGS may need a Newer update - the XBox's on the 30 January Update are crashing a lot. <maybe> if so - ID's change again and then re-do on those packages again.

vocal glacier
old tiger
vocal glacier
#

But I do want to understand the issues.

old tiger
#

But also, probably none of these things affect what would need to be changed to work on what you said you want improvements to. skill progression and inventory. There is nothing really that CK2 or a fixed game engine could add to the ability of modding these parts.

#

this sums up some of the issue, there are more, but they are somewhat more obscure in their nature

vocal glacier
old tiger
# vocal glacier I'll take a look at it. Thanks

The biggest danger to the future of Starfield modding that I can see if the they don't revert that completely non-sensical change to how ESL flagged masters of other mods are handled.

This can only be corrected before there are any number of module files in that broken format around.

To ensure that, I prevented the creation of any such files in SF1Edit so far.

If SF CK gets released without fixing this, and people start using it to create such broken by design files, the game is pretty much over.

vocal glacier
#

I'm beginning to see what you've been on about. One would hope that they haven't buried their heads in the sand about this and have been working on fixes to the issue.As long as the fixes are in the update that will surely come when they flip the official mod support switch on, it won't be a problem. It may be that they are in no hurry to fix it in advance because as far as they are concerned, mod support has not yet become official, so anything released in advance of that is a use at your own risk thing.

With the mediocre status of the game itself in its launch state, they have so much riding on the CK and official mod support and the Verified Creator Program to carry the game forward. the CK needs to fully work with everything the engine touches that can be logically user-defined. If it launches broken, then their whole decade-long viability dream will turn into very short, very loud nightmare.

old tiger
#

I hope they turn it around... but past experiences have made me jaded and disillusioned.

#

I'm not saying all the issues are unsolvable.

#

I'm just somewhat skeptical that they will be solved adjequately. But I guess time will have to tell.

upbeat furnace
#

Im paraphrasing Elm here and wholly agree. Starfield has a chance to be hosting platform for user made content, with a sci-fi base game that shows off what the engine can do and provides a good foundation on which to host user made content.
edit: end paraphrase

But so far we are not seeing good indications that Bethesda built this game with this as a priority. I want Starfield to be successful and at this point user created content will be key to that. I think Starfield is a fun game. I genuinely enjoyed the quest lines, and exploring/wandering and building ships. But it can be so much more if they dont screw up the modding.

vocal glacier
old tiger
#

I can tell you that at the level that I've gone into reverse engineering the game as it has been released, it is very obvious that "modability" was not a consideration at the conceptual level when developing.

It's not a matter of "oh, we thought about it, but left out these parts here because we don't need them right now and can add them later".

All of the new systems show no trace of modability having been acounted for on a conceptual level.

So it's not a question of "lets just add the missing parts", but "lets go back to the drawing board, consider how all this must work if we want proper modability, then implement this modable design".

#

Again, please understand, I'm not claiming they can't do that. Just that there is more involved here than most people seem to think.

shrewd ruin
# vocal glacier We don't know what they're really doing behind the scenes. We'll find out soon e...

With past experience we actually can. In "layman's terms" expressed, they've build a game that down to its core engine is focused on concoles. Past games already carried that flaw, but in SF it reached a new level of disrespecting the very nature of what made Bethesda become what it is right now...not a good idea to disrespect a PC mod author community that increased the longevity of any of their games. I have no doubt they're going to fix any reflection related issue, because so God help them if they don't, and they perfectly know that. I mean, Bethesda doesn't have a monopoly on providing a well modable engine, do they?

old tiger
#

In the oblivion timeframe, they certainly had one of the, if not the most "modable by design" engine.

They've sort of dragged that along since then, like a used chewing gum stuck to the sole of your shoe, taking it for granted that they kinda get that modability for free because every new game starts as a form of the previous codebase then then mutates into the next game.

Unfortunately that only works if you take care that all the additions and modifications you make follow the original concepts and principles from Oblivion.

And with every game since, they've drifted more away from that, resulting in more and more parts that are, if modable, then modable despite their design, not because of it.

In Starfield, it's clear that the people working on it have forgotten (or probably rather never learned about in depth in the first place) the concepts and principles that made Oblivion so modable. And instead created new systems, not build on these concepts, nor otherwise build on concepts that are designed to ensure best possible modability.

shrewd ruin
#

I put my hopes into seeing how much of the code I've been reading through, resembles Minecraft'esque structures. It does make sense in a procedural game, to get inspired by other procedural games. I'm somewhat sure there was some interaction between both devs initialized by Bill's company. Based on that assumption we may see some major changes from how we did it in the past.

#

But honestly, I don't care. I've been modding and playing "low on the radar"-games before, and as long as the game keeps me motivated and entertained, I see no reason not to adapt.

old tiger
#

none of these things are at the core of the modability issues

acoustic parrot
#

Reading about this has me worried and I hope that they actually look into the issue to making the systems more mid friendly. I am not going to even pretend to understand how modding works I just know load orders and I know Starfields is different but again I find it worrying that Elm sees the systems as not friendly to modders in general

old tiger
#

This was me before I worked on Starfield:

#

And after:

vocal glacier
# old tiger

What if we're not even looking at the tip of an iceberg, but just a chunk of ice floating in the water?

Hypothetically speaking, if you were to reverse engineer a game made with Unreal Engine 5, would you be privy of the entirety of what UE5 is capable of, or just the components of it that went into that game's project flow? When working with UE5, there are tons of features you can enable or disable that can change the whole game in terms of what is internally processed, and what is exposed for externalization. What if Creation Engine 2 works in a similar way? What if the things we think are broken with Starfield's engine because when they compiled the build it was with a ton of modding features flagged as unbodable, so what got plugged in there that you can see but doesn't work is little more than placeholder code. A function call without an included function.

What if in Bethesda's office, Their Creation Engine 2 works like Unreal Engine, and is in fact a meshing of toolset and engine? If there's an entire series of branches to the Starfield Tree that are notpart of the build simply because they are not ready for us to be able to work with them in any meaningful way, we would only be able to see, even through reverse engineering, the parts thatare included and needed to make the game as it is now work. Because that data is exposed and manipulatable, 3rd party tools like xEdit can be made to work with it to the extend we've been able to see.

Internally, they are working with a single codebase, but when they go to deploy a new version, they turn off a bunch of stuff they don't want us to be able to do anything with yet, so what we see makes it look like they haven't even given modding a thought.

#

So we can only be privy to what is included at build time for any given release version. When they are ready to launch official mod support, All they need to do is turn everything on and build a new version, and then if you were to reverse engineer it, you'll see that all the dots are connected. That document you linked me to made it clear that the observations it makes are based on the state of the engine as it currently is.

old tiger
#

as I keep saying, the issue is not that things are missing (which might have been removed using conditional compilation or such

#

the issue is that the new system are on a conceptual level, in their fundamental design, not designed with modability in mind

vocal glacier
#

Furthermore, what if the release of Creation Kit 2 is actually the release of Creation Engine 2 for public consumption, like Unreal Engine 5 is available from Epic?

old tiger
#

Sorry, but no. That's not how it works.

fluid carbon
#

That's a lot of what if's

vocal glacier
#

Everything bout Starfield is a huge IF, my friend

old tiger
#

that's a "we wrote two completely different games... because... well, just because, and we we gave you one, and now we are giving you the other"

#

that's not how this works

vocal glacier
#

I'm going off how Unreal Engine works

old tiger
#

and the understanding of "game engine" that people seem to have is so completely divorced from reality, it's not even funny anymore

#

no

#

there is no "creation engine"

vocal glacier
#

What if Creation Engine 2 is Bethesda, now AKA Microsoft is intending to take a page out of Epic's playbook and more or less make Creation Engine a public resource?

old tiger
#

there is the monolithic program code that made up Oblivion, which they copied and then modified to make it FO3, and then they copied it and modified it to make it FNV, and then they copied it and modified it more to make FO4, and then they copied it and modified it to make FO76, and in parallel from a different copy of the FO4 code they started to make Starfield, and at some point they copied a whole bunch of code over sideways from FO76

#

there is no "game engine" which is somehow a magically seperate thing

fluid carbon
#

^^

old tiger
#

I've spend 18 years reverse engineering the module file formats of all of these. And over that time I've worked together with a lot of people that spend the same amount of time decompiling and analyzing the game exes.

We have a VERY good idea of how the sausage is made.

#

And we also have a VERY good idea of what and how and why they have been changing in any patch that came out so far

distant stream
#

Please stop arguing

vocal glacier
#

I mean their visions of dollar signs dancing in their heads dies. The game will always be whatever it is, but If they really want what they say they want for it, then it's got to become so much more.

vocal glacier
# distant stream

This is not an argument. It is a discussion. Nobody's name-calling or ripping each other apart here.

fluid carbon
#

I've used X edit a lot, still need more skills and knowledge about it

old tiger
late valley
vocal glacier
#

I certainly am not taking any of it personal.

#

Disagreeing does not mean we are arguing.

fluid carbon
#

Is it posable to make new navmesh with XEdit? I know how to delete it, but not make new.

old tiger
#

technicily, yes... there is no data that's needed for that which you can't edit

vocal glacier
#

I think there's more going on that we are privy to, and therefore we cannot know what they have or have not done behind the scenes. I think Bethesda know full well how seriously make or break long-term modability is for Starfield, and that means they cannot just go tip-toeing through the tulips with it.

old tiger
#

but you have to know exactly what it is you need to fill in everywhere

old tiger
#

the proof is in the pudding...

vocal glacier
#

Agreed

crude bridge
#

Is there a beard and hair mod that is any decent? Looking for a mod similar to ks hairdos from Skyrim. I’m on pc

turbid phoenix
turbid phoenix
#

Ok it was the achievement enabler causing CTDs <edit: They just uploaded an update for that too :D>

honest wedge
#

They really need to fix the beards, mine looks missing spots and patchy when you are even like 1meter away from npc or camera from your own face

lyric finch
#

Is there a mod that let's you have your scanner up and your weapon instead of switching to a cutter?

autumn idol
icy raptor
#

Ah-

icy raptor
azure wren
# old tiger I've spend 18 years reverse engineering the module file formats of all of these....

Was reading some of your work on github, it's certainly sobering, maybe they will turn this around maybe they won't but as someone who has worked in software development based on reading what you wrote "their technical debt" is certainly catching up to them and the design choices are just strange in their implementation of starfield. It's curious why when they constantly said about "starfield being a paradise for modders" why some of these design choices were made. Maybe it's marketing versus reality but it is disappointing.

old tiger
# azure wren Was reading some of your work on github, it's certainly sobering, maybe they wil...

If I were to make a quite well educated guess (as someone with 30 years as software developer and having spend the last year consulting for a company with multiple large development teams) about why these design choices were made, I would say because "modability" was not mentioned anywhere in the acceptance criteria for the jira tickets of the developers, and it wasn't anywhere on the test plan for QA.

azure wren
old tiger
#

Given the state I've found the software and data structures in, it's impossible that modability was tested for by QA.

What modability is there (and still functional) is there because it's the minimum that's required to make the normal designer workflow (designers create .esp in CK that they work on, only that one .esp is loaded as additional module into the game while testing the changes, then .esp is merged into the game master via version control) work.

#

Just to make it clear, I don't think any of that is the fault of the developers, designers, testers that have worked on the project. They've done the best they can within the limits you work under in large organisations. There are always more tickets than time. So you design, implement, test, exactly what your acceptance criteria and test plan require. If it's not in there and it costs time, it's not going to get done. And any shortcut that gets you where your ticket can be closed, even if it blocks things that fall outside of the acceptance criteria are taken if it saves time.

ebon vault
#

when will starfield get mods this year

old tiger
#

After someone manages to close the jira ticket with it in its acceptance criteria and QA has signed off on it.

#

Oh wait. Are you talking PC or console?

ebon vault
#

console

old tiger
#

Then either what I said, or when you get a PC.

#

There are many 1000s of mods for Starfield on NexusMods

ebon vault
autumn idol
vocal glacier
# ebon vault pc cost to much

A PC that runs starfield at the same resolution and framerate as the series-S, just to b able to get access to mods now (as well as mods in the future that cannot be deployed to XBox consoles is all you need. You might be able to have one built at a very reasonable price. You'll only start hitting high pricetags when if you start trying to build something that runs the game in 4k with super-high framerate. with all the bells and whistles turned on.

And honestly, even though Starfild will be getting mods at some point, your experience with them will be severely gimped, as the best mods use 3rd-party elements like script extenders and graphics overhauls and such that Microsoft will not allow on the consoles. You'll be missing out on a greater experience to be had.

If you don't know how to build your own PC, talk to some of your friends and see if they can do it. Ask around about affordable builds

vocal glacier
#

I mean, it's entirely up to you. But if you are wanting the mod experience for console, there is no current ETA on when you'll be getting it.

crimson aurora
#

Mod idea: Shop counters for New Atlantis and Neon so we don't have to go inside the store and go through loading screens.

loud verge
#

anyone know how to check that a mod like baka achievement enabler is even working?

autumn idol
late valley
#

achieve something?

loud verge
#

ill try

late valley
#

do or do not, there is no try

loud verge
#

i crashed my game

late valley
#

did the game crash during play, or did the game crash while starting up?

loud verge
#

while playing

#

i tried running a bat file to give me 1000 of every kind of resource

#

i copied the text into a txt file and renamed it

#

it was this:

Player.additem 246B6A 1000

Player.additem 55B1 1000

Player.additem 5DEC 1000

Player.additem 202F5A 1000

Player.additem C1F57 1000

Player.additem 5570 1000

Player.additem 557D 1000

Player.additem 55CD 1000

Player.additem 55A9 1000

Player.additem 2F4436 1000

Player.additem 55AB 1000

Player.additem 557B 1000

Player.additem 5588 1000

Player.additem 55B8 1000

Player.additem 2C5884 1000

Player.additem 246B7C 1000

Player.additem 2A5024 1000

Player.additem 5585 1000

Player.additem 57D9 1000

Player.additem 55B2 1000

Player.additem 122EA8 1000

Player.additem 2C7C0A 1000

Player.additem 788D6 1000

Player.additem 57DF 1000

Player.additem 2C7231 1000

Player.additem 5586 1000

Player.additem 1FC9C1 1000

Player.additem 557C 1000

Player.additem 557E 1000

Player.additem 249C52 1000

Player.additem 5575 1000

Player.additem 246B64 1000

Player.additem 246B7B 1000

Player.additem 5576 1000

Player.additem 55A8 1000

Player.additem 29A85E 1000

Player.additem 00000F 1000

Player.additem 00000A 1000

Player.additem 20A02F 1000

Player.additem 122EB6 1000

Player.additem 5569 1000

Player.additem 2C7222 1000

Player.additem 2A9DE8 1000

Player.additem 57E1 1000

Player.additem 55AF 1000

Player.additem 260DF0 1000

Player.additem 24F5C3 1000

Player.additem 5577 1000

Player.additem 5579 1000

Player.additem 29CAD9 1000

Player.additem 558E 1000

Player.additem 55AA 1000

Player.additem 2C5883 1000

Player.additem 29F40D 1000

Player.additem 55B3 1000

Player.additem 4BA37 1000

Player.additem 203EB4 1000

Player.additem 29A85C 1000

Player.additem 557A 1000

Player.additem 558A 1000

Player.additem 556E 1000

Player.additem 246B77 1000

Player.additem 246B76 1000

Player.additem 5568 1000

Player.additem 29B04F 1000

Player.additem 557F 1000

Player.additem 55BA 1000

Player.additem 559E 1000

Player.additem 246B70 1000

Player.additem ABF9 1000

Player.additem 55B0 1000

Player.additem 559B 1000

Player.additem 27C4A1 1000

Player.additem 29F3FC 1000

Player.additem 246B5F 1000

Player.additem 246B75 1000

Player.additem 246B74 1000

Player.additem 5580 1000

Player.additem 5587 1000

Player.additem 5572 1000

Player.additem 2C7240 1000

Player.additem 246B79 1000

Player.additem 777FD 1000

Player.additem 55A7 1000

Player.additem 5574 1000

Player.additem 246B73 1000

Player.additem 29F400 1000

Player.additem 5573 1000

Player.additem 558C 1000

Player.additem 55A6 1000

Player.additem 246B72 1000

Player.additem 246B71 1000

Player.additem 246B5C 1000

Player.additem 246B6F 1000

Player.additem 304D0 1000

Player.additem 28DF 1000

Player.additem 203EB2 1000

Player.additem 55CC 1000

Player.additem 55AD 1000

Player.additem 246B6D 1000

Player.additem 556A 1000

Player.additem 55CE 1000

Player.additem 55AC 1000

Player.additem 2A9DE7 1000

Player.additem 246B6C 1000

Player.additem 55AE 1000

Player.additem 55B9 1000

Player.additem 122EB1 1000

Player.additem 202782 1000

Player.additem 246B69 1000

Player.additem 2C5880 1000

Player.additem 2C7242 1000

Player.additem 556F 1000

Player.additem 5DED 1000

Player.additem 203EAF 1000

Player.additem 246B68 1000

Player.additem 5578 1000

Player.additem 556D 1000

Player.additem 55CB 1000

Player.additem 29A847 1000

Player.additem 556B 1000

Player.additem 5589 1000

Player.additem 558B 1000

Player.additem 5DEE 1000

Player.additem 203EB0 1000

Player.additem 5DEF 1000

Player.additem 203EB3 1000

Player.additem 5591 1000

Player.additem 143CB2 1000

Player.additem 57DD 1000

Player.additem 5571 1000

Player.additem 246B65 1000

Player.additem 246B66 1000
shrewd ruin
azure wren
vocal glacier
# azure wren Have you put in a ticket on this in the feedback contact form for Starfield? Are...

Is there a point in submitting a ticket when right now the only way to create mods for Starfield is 3rd-party software not supported by Bethesda? If they haven't corrected the issues by the time the CK launches, then it will be a real problem. But I'm thinking that right now, since official mod support for Starfield isn't a thing, they couldn't care less that these issues exist.

Again, we don't know what they have or have not done behind the scenes. For all we know, they may have already solved the issues, which THEY won't eve consider to BE issues until they start officially supporting mods.

Now when the CK is in our hands, and if these issues are still there, then they will become ticketable items. I say the CK because they are not going to care about any other tools that may be available. Just their own. So...

#

Having said that, I'm sure that Cartogriffi is aware of the narrative surrounding these issues. So I'm sure that the team handling mod support are aware.

azure wren
old tiger
#

I have communicated my concerns to Bethesda and have been told: it's a new engine, things can work differently, but I can be sure they all work as they should.

shrewd ruin
#

episode 8...

void badger
#

are there good mods?

vocal glacier
void badger
#

yes steam

vocal glacier
red briar
red briar
# void badger yes steam

I would love you to see my mods and rate them! I am modding Starfield pretty much since release! 4 months of work, released 136 Starfield mods up to this day! I really love the game!

void badger
#

@red briari love it too

void badger
#

@red briar which mods are u making?

red briar
# void badger <@903369018302402571> which mods are u making?

Thanks!

Honestly all kinds... to not make it too long: new weapons, new armors, new perks, new traits, quality of life mods such as clean ship builder, my project fps plus mods where I try to increase FPS for the game, new ship parts, glowing ship modules, new boss enemies, pretty much DLC size content LOL 😄

void badger
#

Nice

azure wren
devout epoch
#

How much longer until Xbox gets mod support does everyone predict?

azure wren
#

I imagine it will be mid to late this year, maybe summer or fall.

#

Seems like there is still work to be done before Starfield creations get released I also feel like they will release with some paid creations

shrewd ruin
#

i've got new stuff...

#

now your outpost crew can be clean and secure...

#

if anybody can convince Bethesda now please that SF is also essentially a survival game, and outposts are supposed to have water, defense, security and happiness modifiers for the crew's, now that'd be great!

autumn idol
shrewd ruin
#

yeah, by default...actually all of the stuff works by default if you don't mash the mesh

#

like those ventilators for example are supposed to be cobj'd as pkin...then the animation is going to work

#

if you turn all those objects activator, you could even add "real" use to them...

#

there was a camera mod for FO4

red briar
rugged pumice
#

Question: How does the environmental hazard resistance system work? I wanted to create a mod that essentially disables the hazards because, frankly, I find them annoying. However, I'm now convinced that the hazard resistances don't do anything because I gave myself 10000% hazard res and I still get afflictions on the worst planets and in weather events.

vernal dew
proud forum
#

Or is it at the engine level? Or on a magic effect with keywords on planets?

shrewd ruin
#

proper outpost categories...and so it begins...

rugged pumice
proud forum
sand skiff
#

They didn't want to release creation club at the beginning of 2024. They'd better hurry up because it's not early 2024 forever

#

Nevermind I thought I heard they will release mod support early 2024

vocal glacier
# sand skiff Nevermind I thought I heard they will release mod support early 2024

That is the general interpretation of what has been IMPLIED. However, if you divide a year into 3 parts, being Early, Mid and Late, Early means January - April, Mid means May - August, and late means September - December. If you divide a year into TWO parts, Early means January - June, and Late means July - December. This being the case, I'm looking for official mod support for Starfield to happen before the end of June this year.

old tiger
#

No no... early is before Christmas, late after.

rugged pumice
proud forum
exotic ice
#

They need to hurry up with this mod support I’m starting to get tired of starfield and I don’t want it to get to the point of them releasing it and I don’t even want to play it anymore.

autumn idol
#
  • we still in same time span that past titles get CK🤣
#

it be different if it was like a whole year and no site of CK like fo76

#
  • gotta fix formid fix cause no point of CK release when ya got thousands of people losing their save files due to that bug
#

read the rules of engagement in server?

#

only time will tell if they get they act together and make the most of it

#

least they finally making an attempt to fix formid issue

#

theres still memory issues for skyrim that it took engine fixes to fix em🤣

#

so official fix for these issues feels nice

ocean quartz
#

I do hope the issues related to current starfield modding are fixed.

Two examples (There are many many more)
New icons can't currently be added properly. Icons only work if your mod is at a specific spot in your load order. That is horrible design and no previous game had this.

Ship stats.
If you want to add a stat to a ship you got two options. Min, or Sum. This current issue applies to the ship scan blocker for example. If you add two different ones, the game will always choose the worst one. The only other option would be for the scan blockers to all be summed together, which is also not great. You can't choose the best of a given thing on your ship.

vernal dew
#

It's probably done that way so that people don't freak out when two 50% scan blockers don't give them 100% results. Because that's not how adding percentages works. Easier to just say, "worst one wins, so only use one".

autumn idol
ocean quartz
#

Seems like a major oversight if you looked into making a system expandable and easy to use in the future.

vernal dew
#

Probably would get some weird values if you mixed engine speeds together. Wonder how easy it would be to switch them between min and sum.

old tiger
#

you specify if you want min or sum

#

what they are missing is an option to specify max

proud forum
#

Have they increased or left LLCT alone? Is it still max 255 entries per leveled list?

split smelt
# autumn idol but isn't that stupid?

It's probably not stupid if we imagine that scan blockers play an active role, and that a poor quality scan blocker winds up leaking some information in the process of trying to conceal other information. Imagine it being sort of like creating partial invisibility by projecting light representing the scene behind you - imperfections would literally shine through.

bitter burrow
#

Can someone make a MOD for my Fan to carry a wheel barrel behind me? Only this one has the same capacity as the storage box at the lodge.

agile estuary
molten stirrup
#

Will starfield mod support for Xbox release in 2038 or this year?

old tiger
#

yes

upbeat furnace
#

thank

jolly sequoia
#

I hope there are a lot of space suit mods and quest mods to fill in a lot of the empty planets

autumn idol
shrewd ruin
#

I don't need 100+ pois on a barren moon. But one poi with a 2-3 hours gameplay spanning quest and content you'd never see again anywhere else. Now that would be many good...

sand skiff
#

I still hate having to wait for mods, I keep seeing at the youtube homepage 20 starfield mods you must have

autumn idol
#

Join the PC masters racehehe_sg

sand skiff
#

I'd rather wait than spend over 1k on a PC

bitter burrow
#

Create an app/ mod/ add-on for Starfield's Ship Builder. Allowing players to build out of the main game and upload their builds into their games via server. The server could verify from sign in and present current data related to ship building. This data would ofcourse no doubt increase initial load time of the main game however worth it!

autumn idol
#

Will need ck +skse

bitter burrow
#

But its totally doable. Only problem is this would have to wait until devs give mods team the official go or the game gets outta beta.

vocal glacier
# sand skiff I'd rather wait than spend over 1k on a PC

Even when mod support comes to the consoles, you're going to get an extremely gimped version of it. The more extensive, and therefore, feature-superior mods use script extender, which will not be permitted on consoles. Many of those 20 stasrfield mods you must have will not be available to you on console.

That's not to say that you won't have access to some good mods through official support, but your overall modding experience will be limited.

If you are using the S, and are satisfied with its performance, price a custom build for a gaming PC that matches its specs. Build it yourself, or get a friend to do it if you don't want to learn how. It's not hard. You just have to be careful when installing the processor, that you don't bend any of the pins and put the right amount of thermal paste on it before attaching the coolingsolution, be it fan-cooled or liquid-cooled.. YouTube is your friend. There are many detailed tutorials on building a PC.

And hey... If you learn how to build them, you can turn around and sell them. It's a skill.

slow veldt
#

Has there been any news on console mods? I haven’t seen anything in the news chat. I could very well be blind

vocal glacier
#

Last computer I built cost me just shy of $5000.00, but a lot of that was the proprietary professional music composition software, digital instrument libraries, and the 64BG of Ram I installed. I'm a composer, and I needed a single mchine that could do the same thing as a master-slave build, where one PC controls two or more secondary PCs, which have the instrument libraries installed. I filled up a 2TB SSD in one week with digital instruments.

I built that machine with OVERKILL in mind.

#

The average user won't need anything near that.

slow veldt
#

Some people don’t have a couple thousand bucks to spare, even if it is spread out through parts purchases some people don’t have enough to spare per paycheck

vocal glacier
#

I know. And really, if you are very specific with what you need, cost can be controlled very well

vocal glacier
slow veldt
#

Damn

viral shadow
#

i really hope we'll be able to have landable planets with rings because it sucks the only ringed planets rn are gas giants

shrewd ruin
# vocal glacier Last computer I built cost me just shy of $5000.00, but a lot of that was the pr...

Yeah, the same goes for me. I'm working with a lot of media tools as well, also having a band and Techno background. Aside from me extensively doing endurance sports, music might be my only relevant hobby aside from playing and modding games. But long story short, buying a gaming only dedicated PC with rational amounts of RAM and HD space, you'd end up anywhere around 2.5-3k Euros. You can still get a mediocre system for around 1.5k, but for me personally the times I've enjoyed playing games as diashow are long gone in the past. Not wanting to spend the money equals not wanting to play the whole range of decent games with ultra settings. So suit yourself I'd say.

vocal glacier
# shrewd ruin Yeah, the same goes for me. I'm working with a lot of media tools as well, also ...

I fully understand that position. But really, the price for consoles is nothing to sneeze at these days. It's ridiculous. I used to be a Konsole Kid. But as the price for consoles continued to rise, generation after generation, and with 64-bit PCs becoming the norm, A solid investment in a single PC would outperform even the newest consoles and would last for quite a while before needing an upgrade. Syre, it meant saving up a little longer, but I'm a patient man. I can play the long game.

It's all a matter of individual choice. There's no right or wrong choice, if at the end of the day, you end up with what you're looking for.

I do think a lot of people longing for official Starfield Mod support on XBox are going to be disappointed when they realize that a lot of those mods on PC that they've been eyeing wont be available on console because of restrictions. A few might go ahead and buy a PC. Some will likely just settle for the lmods they CAN get. But I fear that many will just stopo playing Starfield, and therefore they won't be buying DLCs or paid Verified Creations, thus reducing potential profits.

We'll see how it shakes out soon enough.

pale nest
#

Any news of when StarField will add mod support??

vocal glacier
pale nest
#

seems a lot of the mods have wrong form ids.

nimble sable
pale nest
#

look at the errors in SFedit

nimble sable
shrewd ruin
#

If you get a lot of errors you might wanna contact mod authors and tell them not to bypass the reflection locked data, because it sounds like that's what you have. Also, the 3 errors you see are vanilla default, because even Bethesda sometimes does the unfixable.

shrewd ruin
#

outpost mod and radios...

true valley
#

Hi everyone. Does anyone know around what month "xbox series x starfield" will get mods?

vernal dew
#

No.

#

I mean, TBF someone at Bethesda may know. But no one is talking.

old tiger
#

Sometime between now and possibly the heat death of the universe.

vernal dew
viral shadow
#

dang i'm having issues with CCR crashing my game during the credits

honest wedge
#

Does vortex's plugin.txt addon thing work without script extender? I noticed vortex has option for plugin management setting that adds plugin.txt thingy

lyric finch
#

Is there such a mod that makes ship clutter static? So we can keep the decor without it multiplying whenever we mod a ship?

honest wedge
#

That would be nice

prisma gazelle
#

If anyone knows the mod from fallout 4 that adds all the armor from star wars the clone wars it needs to be in starfield

pale nest
viral shadow
pale nest
#

(CCR Updated) Then the Original CCR

cunning fulcrum
#

one of these days ill find a crucible replacement for the katana, then i can complete the full doomslayer look

cunning fulcrum
#

then again only one of the vortex mods i have works so i guess itll be awhile before i figure that out.

red beacon
#

my mom said once....

#

its your choice

#

just go

#

away

fast owl
#

As a reminder, this is a channel about Starfield Mods

red beacon
red briar
#

After 3 days of work, may I present you Pharaoh Ramses II boss: ❤️
https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8426

Nexus Mods :: Starfield
Ramses II Boss

Fight the ancient Egypt Pharaoh Ramses II in Cairo! Handcrafted boss arena + new unique boss enemy for you to defeat! Ramses carries unique Golden Armor that has plates that look like shield and a sta

elfin flint
#

Since we're still in that nebulous period before the CK (or whatever its called), do people feel current mods are more or less safe to use? I remember script mods would break Fallout 4 saves eventually if not compiled with the CK.

atomic blaze
#

anyone know what the id is for the options in the chunks kiosks is?

i wish to add a "Chunky Meal" for kids and adults to the menu

edit: TMLM:000D0D86

atomic blaze
#

nvm i am not smart enough to figure this out

true valley
#

Any new updates/news about what month "xbox series x starfield" might be getting mods?

sand bloom
summer plank
#

Just wondering Is there any tutorial how to Learn to make Mods for Starfield? like adding functions to items or editing it or making/creating skins then adding it to starfield? does blender work?

atomic blaze
#

im modding in a very different way compared to others

azure wren
summer plank
atomic blaze
#

i still have sfse its just a pain to update it

summer plank
atomic blaze
#

no

#

im still on pc

#

just using xbox

twilit abyss
true valley
vocal glacier
fickle tusk
#

so i aint played the game in a minute when are we getting acc modding support

#

anyone know ?

random hound
#

Did someone found a way to replace the short black loading screen with something? Like a grav jump picture in case of jumping, a NAT picture in case of NAT transiting and the frontier airlock in case of getting into once own ship?

shrewd ruin
#

finally...got the big outpost package ready. about to upload. about 40+ new decorational objects we haven't seen inb4 but were strongly needed: toilets, showers, security cameras, dishwasher, laundry washers, soap dispenser, coat hanger, and additional variants of things we already had(sinks, toilets, posters). about 6 interactable objects: radio news, radio tune list, trade authority kiosk, vending machines, "missing" mission boards. all categories have been streamlined and additonal categories have been added in result = less scrolling, more dedication to "themes". limits for turrets and mannequins lifted. a default lodge decorator(activator instigator). decoration for all categories in the neon mini box quarter(or how it is named?), and last but not least some of the vanilla snap templates "improved"(aka hacked) for QoL(like the infamous stop at 50% heigth sink). that's about what i recall on top of my head right now, but probably more. it has a patch for skk's universal stash available. gimme an hour or so.

cbm01.gif cbm02.gif cbm05.gif
shrewd ruin
#

Here you go...

tawny anvil
#

Anyone have any sources for mod creation info? I'm having a heck of a time with creating an outpost item in a mod. The game is seeing my NIF file and loading content and collision and everything just fine, but when placing it in the Outpost it resize the mesh to about 10% larger than the size of the Small-size foundation placement, so it can't snap to itself as it sticks out. Shrinking the NIF size doesn't have any effect as the game always resizes it to that same scale. Any hints on how to change the foundation-matching size would be a gift, thanks!

shrewd ruin
#

Wrong snap and/or transform template?

sand skiff
true valley
#

Hi everyone. If I am annoying anyone by asking the following question please let me know and I will stop asking it. Has there been any news/updates about when "xbox series x starfield" will be getting creations?

sand bloom
red briar
maiden rose
sand skiff
true valley
#

Has there been any news/updates about when "xbox series x starfield" will be getting creations?

uncut cedar
true valley
uncut cedar
#

No problem!

true valley
# uncut cedar No problem!

What would be the best time frame(1 week apart, 2 weeks apart, one month apart, etc) between asking the question?

uncut cedar
#

Honestly you do not really need to ask. As soon as we have information, it is posted in #starfield-announcements. Even if you were to ask ,we would not have anything to tell you.

true valley
uncut cedar
true valley
autumn idol
true valley
autumn idol
#

dam

true valley
granite fractal
young hound
#

yes, only the Kit can break chains. Until now we can only use the ID's that the Game provides, aka replacing stuff

viral shadow
viral shadow
#

I really hope we get an autopilot mod at some point

red briar
#

Hello everyone! I handcrafted and made a story about Genghis Khan invading Shanghai, player character fights Genghis Khan, other famous Mongol generals and his army!
https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8544

Nexus Mods :: Starfield
Genghis Khan Unique Boss Mod

Fight Genghis Khan & his army! This mod adds brand new unique boss to the game! With unique rewards and a challenge. Not only you fight with Genghis Khan, you fight other famous Mongol leaders as

vast rover
#

When is this going to be ported to xbox / consoles

autumn idol
upbeat furnace
#

I am also excited for mods.

vernal dew
#

We haven't even passed the window that Fallout 4 set as far as waiting for official tools.

vocal glacier
#

I have a feeling that Fallout 4 will get its mod support before Starfield does. At least we can look at skyrim to get some idea of how things will work when they finally get around to adding official mod support for Starfield.

Official mod support for Starfield was said to be coming early 2024. But there has been no clarification on what "early" means in Bethesda's vocabulary. I myself believe it needs to happen in the next twomonths, before the end of April to stay within the "early" months. If Early means within the first half of 2024, then they have until the end of June. After that, we're into the latter half of the year, and I cannot apply the word "early" to anything at that point.

One thing that I will say is that when official mod support comes to Starfield, everything needs to work. Starfie'd's future will depend on it.

#

By fallout getting its mod support, I mean it getting its implementation of the Verified Creator Program. It's had its Creation Kit for a good long while.

upbeat furnace
#

Well said ^. In December I publicly placed my bet on March 20th. But now Im starting to think that was too optimistic. Im thinking its more like June or later now but I already placed my bet 😛

old tiger
#

Bethesda releases Starfield: Here is our new game. It's perfect like that. Go and play it over and over as we made it.

What their customer base wants: Here is our new open world sci-fi game engine to host user made contents. And we've put a really nice base game with a main quest in place to give you a context for your user made contents and to show off the new engine functions.

spare terrace
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So when are mods coming to Xbox?

old tiger
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Oh Loki....

spare terrace
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Just asking, I'm getting a bit irritated is all

autumn idol
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wait so you know how long it takes to condense this version of CK for commercial use?pepe_monkaHmm

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or do we want a buggy version of fo4 all over again🤣

old tiger
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we want them to have CK and modability finished and taken care of during initial development before the release

autumn idol
vocal glacier
# autumn idol so do you know how long it takes to codense dev ck to commercial or not and the ...

Click his name and you will see that he is the lead developer of xEdit, heavily used with modding these games as an alternative to the CK in many cases. He's actually looked at how Starfield is put together, and compared to the way the other games hes developed xEdit to work for, Starfield doesn't even look like it was put together with modding in mind. So yeah... I've looked at his summary info to that effect and I would say that he knows what he's talking about.

vocal glacier
lusty flint
#

I literally bought my PC solely to take advantage of the 64 but Skyrim release lol

autumn idol
lusty flint
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It a laptop bc I needed something maneuverable at the time

autumn idol
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Same as well lmfao

distant stream
vocal glacier
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And the dust once again is swept down the hole under the rug...

lusty flint
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Now it lives next to my TV in front of my couch as a desktop monitor setup pretty much

vocal glacier
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/golfclap

autumn idol
vocal glacier
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I know.

autumn idol
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I should've kept it decent discussion

vocal glacier
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Let's not have serious discussions... Let's just shout praises into the echo chamber

autumn idol
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No you can still say your mind

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But just arguing is where the boundary is at

autumn idol
vocal glacier
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I was pointing out FACTS

autumn idol
lusty flint
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What modders are managing so far without the "official" modding tool(s) is insane honestly, Xedit tool is a beast. The week the CK2 releases is going absolutely wild

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Im literally going to pop popcorn and watch the nexus website practically implode lol

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I've been refreshing my memory with Skyrim/Fallout 4 modding in the meantime since the CK2 should be similar(ish) to it

vocal glacier
autumn idol
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And that may be reason why the kept doing what they doing since then

#

Release game then prioritize condensing it

vocal glacier
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But, everything that needed to be editable, and the way the game was designed to handle plugins worked.

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Because that was what Bethesda aimed for.

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We have to remember that Bethesda wnts Starfield to last for at least a decade like Skyrim. But the longer it takes them to get official mod support added, with a fully finctional CK and the ability for the game to have a modding community as empowered as Skyrim's, the more interest in the game is lost, and the less likely it will last five years, let alone 10

#

If they had a clear path in place at launch for mod support, then the code would support that. But it doesn't, so it calls into question whether there really is a plan at all, let alone actual functionality to support that plan.

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And the fact that they won't even talk to us about it doesn't help.

autumn idol
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with the whole thing about turning their words against them

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then people on twitter/reddit complaining

vocal glacier
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I still have hope.

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Not as much as I did right before Starfield launched. But hope none the less.

uncut cedar
#

Please remember this is a channel for Starfield Mods discussion.

vocal glacier
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THAT IS what this is about Kraken. Everything you have removed included the context tying it together.

uncut cedar
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it was not. It went way off topic from just discussing mods.

#

We do not allow conversations on disciplinary actions in the Server, regardless of whether it relates to in-game violations or Server violations.

If you ever have questions or concerns about a disciplinary action you received on the Bethesda Game Studios Discord, please contact the Moderators via <@&842429330478071858>.

vocal glacier
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Acknowledged... moving on

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I commend the modders for PC who have been doing a fine job releasing stuff. But PC mods for Starfield is only a portion of what Bethesda needs for Starfield's long-term health. As long as it has been, we should at least be getting a look into what's going on with the CK2 and what about Starfield's modding will make it the modders' paradise Bethesda repeatedly said it will be... As compared to Skyrim and Fallout 4...

#

They needs omething big to turn that around. Official mod support news will not hurt and can only help

full vector
#

When is mods coming to console?

upbeat furnace
vocal glacier
full vector
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Ok thanks

vocal glacier
#

Keep an eye on the Starfield-announcements channel

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They've said that is where news about it will be posted

full vector
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Thanks for the info

#

Good point

vocal glacier
full vector
#

Wrong chat room sorry

crimson frost
#

any news about the creation kit for starfield? Though I check in and see.

viral shadow
sand skiff
#

Wouldn't it be a smart move by bethesda if they would focus on the creation kit now and release it at the beginning of next month?

autumn idol
sand skiff
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Maybe, but I meant that they should concentrate on this thing, that they are working on it does not mean that they concentrate on getting it out. The fact that they are working on it does not mean that they want to release it next

vocal glacier
# sand skiff Maybe, but I meant that they should concentrate on this thing, that they are wor...

I would hope that they ARE concentrating on it. Last I heard, the active Starfield team is still somewhat large. And they are likely split between fixing the game itself's major issues and working on the creation kit side of the game.

A theory of mine is that they are working with two different branches of the code. One for the live build, and one for when official mod support goes live. Elmister has pointed out to me that this would be extremely impractical, and were this any other company, I would agree. But Bethesda has been rather unorthodox in their practices for years. But his own research indicates that for modding to work the way it needs to, an entirely different version of the game would be needed. Maybe there is one. And maybe every time they update the core game, the other version gets the same updates, so the gameplay side is always current, but the editing tools side that that includes the source code module for full modding support as it will be is compiled into it on that end. If this is the case, every time the core game gets updated for public release, the modding support team likely has to stop what they are doing, update their side of the code branch to make sure it works with the latest gameplay version.So Updating the game itself may be what is holding the Modding support side back. However, it does mean that if both hypothetical branches of the code are operating correctly, when it comes time to flip the switch on for official mod support, the PC users will get a patch that now includes both gameplay and full modding capabilities.

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We know that the game needs major changes to fully support mods.

Things that Cartogrifi said a while back about having seen CreationKit2 in action and implying that we're in for some exciting things, suggest that Full modding support works on Bethesda's side, but is still a little ways off from being finalized for public consumption.

If both of these things are true, then it means that Bethesda MUST be working with two different versions of the game in-house.

I also have a theory that some of the folks in the Verified Creator program are in fact working on creations for both Fallout 4 and Starfield, ahead of their respective launches of the program, and that they will launch simultaneously. The only difference of FO4's side will be that it gets the creations integration the way Skyrim got it. But on SF's side, it gets that, with Shattered Space included in the Bethesda category, and a few paid creations under the creations tab., with the Creation Kit 2 available for download.

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If my theory about VCs working on FO4 and SF content is true, they are surely doing so under NDA and cannot talk about it.

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The point is that a LOT of stuff has to happen behind the scenes before official mod support goes live for Starfield. Hopefully it's all happening now, and the wait won't be too much longer.

But Starfield needs the gameplay issues fixed to keep interest in the game on life support. And it needs official mod support to be able to breathe and pump its lifeblood on its own.

distant stream
#

As a reminder, we don't allow conspiracy theories or misinformation

vocal glacier
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Not a conspiracy theory... just a theory

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None of us know what's going on behind the scenes... All I or anyone else can do is speculate

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So I'm offering speculation based on observation. Time will tell what's really going on... or not going on

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I'm looking at what I think has to happen to ensure the best possible scenario in the least amount of time.. It would be a conspiracy theory if I tried to suggest that Bethesda is NOT taking steps to make these things happen. But I am not going to do that. I got up on the right side of the bed this morning, so I'm in optimist mode.

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That wasn't the case yesterday.

vocal glacier
#

As to misinformation, I'm not aware of having posted anything like that... I have always believed, that the best way to combat misinformation is to provide actual information. Which is why, whether in pessimist or optimist mode, I push the idea that Bethesda needs to communicate more about Starfield's mod support.. But I have no control over that.

vocal glacier
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So why do I think that some VCs are working on Starfield mods? Well, for one thing, CK2 needs to be tested in practical application. Actual modders with proven knowledge of working on these BGS games are the most likely to run into issues that need addressing, especially where the more complex aspects of modding with the official tools are concerned. Their feedback would be invaluable in the time leading up to CK2's public release. For another thing, when official mod support and the VC program for Starfield launches, there needs to be content available on day one. And while Bethesda COULD (and probably will have) create some stuff themselves, it will look better for the program if players see content created by members of the community on day one.

And I think that Shattered Space will be released when they flip the official mod support switch on, because it will be a great way to promote the game itself, and the VC program at the same time. Especially if they include something like "Made with our brand new Creation Kit 2. Click here to learn more" with a link to the Verified Creator program page for Starfield.

Right now, Starfield is in a holding pattern. The next leg of the journey begins when official mod support comes. And the more bang its launch has, the more momentum it will gain early.

autumn idol
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easiest way to test the limits

shrewd ruin
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what this game needs is adding purpose to outposts other than clutter artisting

vocal glacier
# autumn idol easiest way to test the limits

Exactly. And in-house testing never reveals everything that needs to be addressed before launch. The community always finds the issues while trying to work with things. So including the very people who will be using the tools increases the number of issues that are caught and addressed before the wider community gets their hands on it.

shrewd ruin
#

i'll quote @limpid seal on that one...

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"Since I only have one home ship, I'd be happy to meticulously decorate that, but decorating dozens of outposts by hand doesn't interest me. Give me workshop mode in ships, and fully decorated HAB modules for outposts!"

vocal glacier
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Look at the Hearthfire expansion for Skyrim. By itse'f it doesn't really add much to the overall game. But there have been many mods since that take the mechanics of building a house and furnishing it, and running with it to the point where you can build towns and then build the buildings in the towns. These are very popular mods that give players the experience of playing as a mayor or governor type.

So what the modding community does with outpost building, and what may come in official DLC expansions for Starfield will be awesome when it happens

vocal glacier
#

One thing some people don't like about Starfield is the way landing zones work. However, they do solve a long-standing problem that has existed in every single BGS game since morrowind, which some modders managed to get around when world spaces became a thing after Oblivion. What if multiple mods use the same location for their content?

The way landing zones work in Starfield, one planet could literally have hundreds of landing zones scattered around it. Some even occupying the exact same spot on the planetary map. But since these can be treated as entries in a navigation list for selecting destinations, where the modder puts the planetary map icon won't matter.

You just watch... The entire surface of Jemison will be densely peppered with modded in landing zones, including settlements, and other cities, within a month. assuming the player downloads all the mods that add them.

autumn idol
#

Be hard asf to implement it with seamless planet travel

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Also you noticed how the official CK wiki is being updated?

vocal glacier
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I rather like the notion that one tiny point on the planetary map could represent miles and miles of actual surface area and merely indicates what type of ground environment the landing zone map needs to have. The overall potential of what modders can build, and where they can build it is incredible

vocal glacier
autumn idol
autumn idol
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Even hosting geck from fallout

vocal glacier
# autumn idol Be hard asf to implement it with seamless planet travel

I don't need seamless planetary travel. But there are ways of speeding up the navigation process, especially when you come to the edge of the current ground map. A message could pop up that says, "Continue to [POIName]? which if you answer yes, will load the nearest point of interest ground map, relative to the current one in that general dirtection.

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That would make it so you won't have to go back to your ship, load into your ship. launch into space, select the new landing zone, load back to the planet for the landing sequence, and then load out of your ship.

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Now what would be cool is if if you load into the next closest POI/landing zone from the border, your ship remains in the current zone, unless you have a crew member with piloting skills, in which case, you would see it land at its normal spot for that zone. You're crew would be keeping close to you, unless you disallow it in your ship configuration.

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We're talking about menu / UI options relating to proximity to map edge info. and variables that could be set by interacting with a console on the ship. That can be a mod that drastically changes the way the game behaves, but would likely be relatively light.

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Some of the most profound mods are the ones that just alter the rules of the game and make it behave different.

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Now... I don't know if something like that would fall under the scope of what official mod support allows. But I'm sure it will quickly find a home on Nexus Mods.

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We'll be crossing that bridge when we get to that point

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When I refer to Official mod support, I am talking about what will work on PC and XBox consoles.

autumn idol
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Ah

vocal glacier
#

The latter has restrictions which the former doesn't so we'll have to see what is allowed in terms of rules-altering content

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I suspect that whatever can be done with the CK by itself will be allowed. So if there is a way to access and manipulate everything that is needed within CK2, it's probably going to be XBox-safe.

sleek cliff
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Is there a Clone Armor mod yet? I NEED Captain Rex’s armor when I’m out there tearing ass up in space.

autumn idol
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oi @vocal glacier !!!

image.png
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looks like their may be closed beta testing for verified creators

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so you theory is spot onhehe_sg

vocal glacier
#

We shall see...

full hemlock
#

Hype

vocal glacier
#

In order to truly hype something, you need to truly have something to hype.

polar gull
#

question, since there is no gambling in starfield like there is in fallout. is there a mod adding that in?

autumn idol
vocal glacier
polar gull
polar gull
sand skiff
misty zephyr
#

Question is not scamming okay how get giveaway

#

But I'm trust this giveaway

misty zephyr
#

I'm honestly starfield review is like game and graphics literally good but textures tree not good I think developers improve textures tree give pach update game is good

vital marsh
sand skiff
#

I saw a post on youtube that said that someone found this in the files of starfield on steam

Screenshot_20240223_150420_com.google.android.youtube.jpg
vast atlas
vocal glacier
# vast atlas This is from Steamdb.info - a 3rd party database. But it does represent the actu...

I would say that this is a sign that things are at least moving forward. If they are beta testing the VC program for Starfield, or at least lining up the people who will be testing it, it means that they have a working CK2 for them to build with. Sometimes, though, people get added to a beta test for something, but end up sitting on their hands for a bit because the actual test isn't ready to start yet. We do not know whether that is the case here or not.

It is, as I said, at least a sign that things are moving forward. Hopefully the wait won't be much longer before we get some solid information.

We shall see...

random hound
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Just went 2 hours throught nexus mods, great stuff there.

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i am looking for specific mod(s) if they exist... there are mods to travel from one planet to another in the same system, simply by adding a boost function (as the planets are reachable in vanilla anyway)

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are there mod(s) that allow to scan those planets and select a landing spot without needing to go into the tab-menu?

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Also its possible to select interstellar stars if a quest is located there and graph jump without the need for the tab-menu. this is great!

#

is there a mod that enables switching between interstellar starsystems and select one manually even if there is no quest atm?

autumn idol
random hound
autumn idol
fluid hill
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Anyone here know how to make the Deimos Wing Turn like this Stroud Cap A? I'm using a couple mods. One mod helps it turn like the way I want it but when I lay a Deimos Bumper down and flip to go on the other side of something, it turns into a Nova Cowling. I'm using Better Ship Part Snaps and Ship Module Snap Expansion SMSEX.

Stroud_Cap_A_and_Deimos_Wing_A_1.webp
sinful ibex
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Ahoy. I am in deep need of teaming up with folks who can do xEdit stuff etc... I am just a 3D/2D guy.
I have a buttload of stuff as ready to go as i can make it; Meshes exported and UVs unwrapped, loads of stuff planned out etc..
I've got some mods out and have a load of stuff i could show you to prove i'm not wasting your time.

kind gulch
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anybody know of any cool black clothing mods? i would love a black cloak or robe or something for under my armor, maybe even a scoundral look like han solos outfit or luke at the beggining of eppisode 6 in jabas palace with the hood. would be badass asf

shrewd ruin
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some gimmicks for the new update Outpost mod...

gdgdfgdfg.jpg ghjghjghj.gif
shrewd ruin
proven wasp
#

When are mods coming to xbox?

old tiger
random hound
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starUI and undelayed menu seem to not be compatible with each other (overrides lose files). is there a solution to have both?

random hound
quick tulip
#

We need mods on Xbox X!!! Please

random hound
# quick tulip We need mods on Xbox X!!! Please

Mods for Starfield will be available on Xbox, as confirmed by Bethesda. While unofficial mods are not supported on Xbox, official mod support is planned for both PC and Xbox versions of the game. Bethesda has stated that mods will be supported on consoles sometime in 2024, with the exact launch date yet to be announced. The introduction of mods is expected to enhance the gameplay experience and offer players new ways to enjoy Starfield on Xbox

sand skiff
random hound
#

jep. i just hope bethesda is progressing well on the creation kit, the dlc and the patch bug fixes.

torpid saddle
sinful ibex
meager fable
#

It would be nice if we could at least get an eta on the arrival of mods on Xbox. To be honest I’m done with Starfield until they release the mods on Xbox.

vocal glacier
# meager fable It would be nice if we could at least get an eta on the arrival of mods on Xbox....

You do realize that a significant number of the mods that are available now for PC WON'T be available on XBox, even when official mod support comes, right?

The folks playing on consoles are going to be missing out on a ton of awesome stuff, unless Microsoft removes restrictions that are in place for Skyrim and Fallout 4.I don't see that happening, but it would need to in order for official mod support for Starfield to not be gimped for console players.

Having said that, A snapshot from steamdb.info recently posted (scroll up a little bit and you'll see it) indicates that beta testing for verified creators has begun, or is ramping up to begin. This means that we are a step closer for official mod support for the game. Hopefully, we will begin seeing official reveal information soon. So I still hold to my speculation that we will seeit officially launch in May or June. Possibly as early as April, but I won't hold my breath.

meager fable
vocal glacier
#

But you are correct. Even with the restrictions, some pretty good stuff will be available.

autumn idol
#

The only mods that won't work are sfse plugins

#

Beside that rest of mods will need to be resaved with CK

#

since SFSE don't have any native scripts

vocal glacier
autumn idol
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That's what separate PC and console modding

#

Since consoles can't use script extender

vocal glacier
#

Look at some of the things that the SKSE mods can do that cannot be done with the vanilla game...

autumn idol
#

Yea ik that

vocal glacier
#

I mean, if you don't CARE about the disparity, then it's a moot point. But some people DO care.

#

And more to the point if this discussion, some people who will be totally new to modding when official mod support comes to Starfield won't understand why they cannot have the same modding experience on console as PC players can have.

#

You mark my words... Bethesda is going to be raked over the coals for it, even though they have nothing to do with it.

I'm glad XBox players are going to be getting the mods that they WILL be able to play. But as time goes by, and the unofficial PC modders that make use of the script extender that introduce some of the more powerful mods that are DLC expansion-size and introduce options official modding can only dream of having, the disparity will be felt all the more.

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It's not a world-ending issue, by any means. Just an unfortunate reality that cannot be avoided.

sinful ibex
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I'll be bringing some mods to the xbox/store.
Have just recently applied via Bethesda's creation club thing.
Assuming i get accepted, and assuming i can find the extra help i need? I have a LOT of stuff i can bring.
Fighters are in the pipeline as we speak, but that will be taking a while as it's quite complicated, and i/we (TCV) want to do a high-quality job of it to make it like a mini-DLC
Beyond that? Weapons, ship parts, quests, M-class stuff.... But with just me and one other dude? Gonna be hard.
Need more people who can use xedit/scripting/creation kit.

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A shot of the fighters as they currently are. Still VERY WIP

Screenshot_2024-02-23_200808.png
full hemlock
#

They listened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More ship sizes OMG YES DO WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sinful ibex
full hemlock
sinful ibex
red briar
#

Hello, how complicated will it be to port my mods to xbox when time comes? My mods use mostly esm + meshes/textures/geometries ?

misty abyss
#

Should be as simple as Skyrim or FO4 is as far as anyone could say?

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I didn't have to do much for the mods I have for those games as Xbox ports. Though I would consider lower texture resolutions possibly since mods on console are fairly size limited.

young laurel
#

I've noted that Starfield weapons have a lot of new options compared to Fallout 4, stuff like burst fire and usable laser sights, but what do you guys think the chances are for some sort of alt-fire capability? Even just in the CK, if not on a weapon?

The underslung grenade launcher is sort of a sci-fi staple; the pulse rifle from Aliens, the Morita in Starship Troopers, even the plasma rifles from the Terminator universe have a tiny extra barrel that is supposed to be explosive. It would be amazing to have a straightforward way to implement this sort of capability.

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Current FO4 methods are a bit janky, and at the very least require the ability to edit animation annotations.

sinful ibex
misty abyss
sinful ibex
young laurel
#

Well, it depends on how it's implemented. If it's a completely new input, yeah, but it could also be an override for the thrown weapon. That's the current experiment in FO4.

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Could also be a charging fire weapon that swaps ammo when charged, but that would exclude automatic weapons.

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Preferably it could re-use the basic firing animation and just have a new projectile node. I think that would be the simplest universal solution that would be easy to adapt to any weapon on the .nif side.

knotty elk
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Anyone able to confirm if SavrenX HD Crowd Optimized is still usable? Last update was September 23, 2023

red briar
misty zephyr
#

How work this mod

autumn idol
knotty elk
#

Today I'm running at 20 FPS less than yesterday, I don't get it.

stoic walrus
#

"Immersive Landing Ramps" aka to me.. OH GOD GET TO THE SHIP AND CLOSE THE DOOR!

#

useful when you mess up. i want it

random hound
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Hereby I`d like to THANK ALL the modders for their great work. I now list the mods i use where i am especially thankfull for, also: Maybe others get inspired to use them, as nexus is a bit difficult to search thought with now 7000 mods availalbe. Here the mods i use and love:

#

MODLIST: Starfield Community Patch. All in one V7 Adress Liberary, Ship Builder Categories. SPTE, Alpha Chad ReShade, New Unique CrewSivan, StarUI Inventory. APOGEE - Starshipo combat Overall, Better Convcersation, Neutral LUTs - No Color Filter, Astroneer (be a ship builder as profession), Better Color Sharp and Light for Natural LUTs, ChopShopOrganHarvest (be a organ dealer), Desolatuion, Enhanced Miliky Way background, Enhanced Player Helathbar. Helpful Activity Objectives. Leveled Mission Board Rewards, Live_Action_trailer_Menu (shows starfield commercial in main manu - also skippable). Mass Effect N7 Armor. More Dramatic Grac Jumps. More_missions_from_Boards, NewUniqueCrewAstrid (adds voiced character, with evil morals), Royal Aliens (Make them bigger), Royal Weathers (cool weather effects), Simple offense suppression (if you accidently hit someone not all neutral NPCs will attack you). Toogle Quest Marker, Updated 1.2 Added Star Trek SFX (ship weapons, phaser, photon torpedoes). White loading screens (replaces the black loading screen with grav jump animation).

sinful ibex
sour coral
red briar
random hound
#

Cannot run "Starfield Galacitc Radio" mod. "wrong game version some .dll disabled, recommend to not load the game with the mod to avoid savegame losses". Anyone an ideal on how to run Radio? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvlaxcjtV9U

YouTube
ImagineDragons
Imagine Dragons - Children of the Sky (a Starfield song) (Official ...

Watch the Official Music Video for "Children of the Sky (a Starfield song)": https://imaginedragons.lnk.to/COTSVideo

Listen to 'Children of the Sky (a Starfield song): https://imaginedragons.lnk.to/childrenofthesky

Watch the trailer for Starfield, the new game from Bethesda Game Studios. Starfield launches on September 6 on Xbox Series X|S an...

▶ Play video
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ah it got an update. will try that.

random hound
#

works

copper marsh
#

I want a service rifle in Starfield when mod support comes out. Does anyone plan to do it?

#

If no one does it, I'll learn to do it.

sinful ibex
copper marsh
#

Something similar to what they did in fallout 4

sinful ibex
#

That doesn't tell me anything

#

Do you mean put an M16 in the game (for example?)

copper marsh
#

Yeah

sinful ibex
#

I'm sure some folks will do that as they're somwhat simple to do as you can just download a model and import it.

#

But that's no fun!
More fun to design new things. It is after all some hundreds of years in the future

#

An example of what i'm working on:

https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/images/8669

Nexus Mods :: Starfield
Screenshot :: X50HBR progress

So we're going to call this the X50HBR (Heavy Battle Rifle).Totally stand-alone. Replaces nothing. Just an extra gun in the game.Inspired by the AA-12 assault shotgun, and the HK G11, this is a gun made from simple parts. aluminium, polymer, magnesium, etc..  So you get a weapon which is simple to maintain, light, and you can easily make one wit...

copper marsh
#

I don't know anything about programming 😭

#

Much less modeling

#

Anyway, if I imported the weapon, wouldn't I have to do the reloading and firing animations and adjust it to the character?

sinful ibex
#

Here's a more recent example of that gun i'm making (though we've decided it's a bit plain, so i'm currently re-working it)
What we're doing is using an existing gun in the game to use the animations - In this case it's the Hard Target - We link new models to the existing ones so that things move right for example

image.webp
copper marsh
sinful ibex
#

https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8129

And this one we released (i designed it, spoopy coded and textured it) - We use the Novalight

Nexus Mods :: Starfield
Va'ruun Viper

Filling out a contract from a mysterious Va'ruun proprietor, the engineers at TCV have designed an updated version of the inflictor pistol dubbed the Viper.

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Doing it this way we don't have to make new animations which is a LOT of work which we currently aren't able to do

copper marsh
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It seems a bit complicated to do for me.

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But it looks fun

sinful ibex
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It is complicated. Not going to lie. But if it's of interest to you i'm sure you could manage it

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It's not difficult so much as it's a lot of info and a lot of time

copper marsh
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I think he is trying to do something but let's say I want to make an m17, I could start from the base of an m16 and model it or I would have to make it from scratch

sinful ibex
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You would start by finding a gun in the game which works in a similar way, so you can use the hand positions and reloading animations. From there you would import or make new parts to make it look how you want

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For an M16 it would probably be the Maelstrom

copper marsh
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Would that save me the programming part?

sinful ibex
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yes and no.
Linking all the new parts is the hard work part

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You would be using all the programming the game already has, but you would need to link all the new parts to the old parts.

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best advice is to make a mod for Fallout 4 to learn

copper marsh
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Sounds like a frankstein of gun parts

sinful ibex
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Just to be clear: There is no drag and drop solution. You will have to work with lots of text info

copper marsh
sinful ibex
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I would say look for modding guides for Fallout 4 and go from there

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Much of it is the same, but there are also changes for Starfield. So once you have an understanding of modding fallout 4, you will have an easier time with starfield modding

copper marsh
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So I guess I have a long way to go but I want to do something and see it there in this universe thanks for taking your time and chatting with me I'm definitely going to try it

sinful ibex
autumn idol
sinful ibex
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The key is to try again and again. To know it will take a lot of trys to get it right. Your first few trys will probably not work, and that is ok

copper marsh
sinful ibex
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You're very welcome

copper marsh
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Thanks for everything

red briar
# copper marsh I want a service rifle in Starfield when mod support comes out. Does anyone plan...

Since you like guns, may I suggest a browse on my profile?

I have added lots of new weapons to the game, maybe you will like them! Keep in mind I am also bad at modeling 😄

This is latest iteration "Annihilator Rifle" https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8626

Nexus Mods :: Starfield
Annihilator Assault Rifle

New standalone rifle! This one has 43 weapon customisations. You can make different iterations of the weapon to suit your desires! Weapon comes in standard and legendary edition. You craft weapons at

random hound
# copper marsh That motivates me even more again thanks for the advice and wisdom shared

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmfP_2Rc-q8&list=PLE3E7CC13B95E5AB6 a lot of buttons, but maybe this video gives you a little overview on how stuff works. once creation kit 2.0 is out you should have something simular for starfield. I have not modded stuff, but in starfield (other bethesda games) it should be the easiest as you have this kit to help you (release of kit 1-3 month - asstimate)

YouTube
BestInSlot
Skyrim Creation Kit Tutorials - Episode 2: Creating And Adding Weap...

The Creation Kit tutorials offer a host of various tips, tricks and guides on how to get the most out of Bethesda's modding software.

In today's tutorial;
How to create an unique weapon and add it to the game, as well as dealing with enchantments, smithing and tempering. Everything taught in this video applies to armour as well.

Episode 1 (A...

▶ Play video
copper marsh
copper marsh
red briar
knotty elk
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Was there a Starfield patch very recently? I'm crashing on every attempt now

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Disabling mods does nothing

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verifying files does nothing

autumn idol
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and try new game

upbeat furnace
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Reinstalling wont help much with mods. The Steam uninstaller only removes files it placed originally, which will leave mod files untouched. Make sure to give the game folder a look over after uninstalling.

sinful ibex
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Yup. Total clean is needed. Every folder and file.

honest wedge
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Don't most managers use virtual folders and don't put anything in the real files? i know vortex and mo2 does, atleast vortex

upbeat furnace
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Yea, those managers use some virtual file redirection of some kind.

viral shadow
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Anyone know what mods could possibly cause this issue?

upbeat furnace
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What mods are you possibly using?

viral shadow
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nvm i figured it out i can't set my own door on a habz hab module

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i also apparently am not allowed to put windows in the brigs

shrewd ruin
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Next update will have facial expression for photo mode, so I can make a troll face anytime my companions run into crates because of the still broken ai pathing. Is it really that hard to fix them moving in front of me in combat or dialogue?

autumn idol
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can be easy to dam near complicated to fix

shrewd ruin
autumn idol
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so clipping can be possible with that

shrewd ruin
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how to quickly make outpost icons...

clever maple
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A mod to add a mansion lot like Sonny’s di falco place from maheo 1 as a dream home but with a higher price?

random hound
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I like the royal galaxy mod, mainly for the wheather effects. But also for the wildlife. Is it possible to enlarge some animals to dinasaur scale? and some bugs to well... actuall bug scale? like some of the peacefull once to size of players feet instead of 1/2 the human? maybe with same speed or higher so that running after them to scan them is a challenge 😉

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Dense trees would also be great to have a real forrest and not one tree all 10 meters. if that does not kill the performance

summer frost
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Any word on when the CK is going to drop? I'm waiting with bated breath 🙂

random hound
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only thing i know an "unknown app" is tested in steam starfield. which could be the DLC or the CK... other then that, haven´t seen any new news about CK. (early 2024)

summer frost
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Man I'm excited to see what modders make when the CK drops

vocal glacier
# random hound only thing i know an "unknown app" is tested in steam starfield. which could be ...

The unknown app is likely the CK. That goes along with the recent reveal from steamdb.info regarding verified creators involved in a beta associated with Starfield. Now, it may well be that they are testing Shattered Space as well, but the nature of that testing may be to ensure that the resources the expansion will include are working correctly with mods.

I've said it before, but I think it's possible that Shattered Space will be Bethesda's day one offering when official mod support goes live, along with the creations made by the VCs in the beta. Game gets a major update, an expansion, and free and paid mods for XBox AND tools for anyone to get involved with creations to whatever degree they wish. That would be a major marketing move that would draw a lot of attention from a lot of different groups all at once.

Starfield didn't get Game of the Year, so its first re-release won't be the Game of the Year edition. But they could call it the Creators' Edition, and it could include the core game, Shattered Space, the CK AND all the day one paid VC creations, this way those who did not start with the original release can jump right in to what will be the current experience, with everything that is needed to begin carrying the game forward into the next decade.

taking overall reviews onto account, Starfield is mediocre in its original form. That can be turned around, but it needs a space-shattering event to make a big enough wave to make people who may have written it off take another look at it.

Bethesda isn't Hello Games, but there is nothing that says they cannot make a Hello-Games-Style comeback with Starfield, and in the process, restore a lot of the lost hope in what the future may have in store. Not just for Starfield, but for future titles as well.

I will hold out hope.

viral shadow
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Time to wait for address library to update

lusty flint
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Only if you enrolled in the beta. SFSE team only updates with the stable releases not the beta ones so your good to go until the beta pushes as a regular update

viral shadow
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Well I keep getting an error because address library is for 1.9.67.0 my game updated to 1.9.71.0

misty geyser
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1.9.71 isn't a beta. It's a hotfix. The proper beta isn't for another 2 days.

viral shadow
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Yeah I know

viral shadow
glad vortex
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Man....kinda wish starfield on Xbox had mods.

viral shadow
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It will just have to wait

gentle cypress
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any news for starfield to have mods for xbox?

viral shadow
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Nope but when there is there will be notice in the server

charred magnet
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What’s the difference between mods I see on nexus right now and eventual creation kit mods

old tiger
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none

misty abyss
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The only difference will be that those CK mods will be made with CK.

mental estuary
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i'd imagine they would have been abit easier to make with the proper tools

nimble sable
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Not necessarily. Certain mods yes. Probably dialogue, quests, expanding ships and making new ones. But xEdit's cleaner/quicker for data heavy mods. Not dealing with a bunch of different windows. As a programmer, I prefer it.

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Like xEdit is horrible for trying to build a brand new ship. No 3d viewer to see how everything connects, just text positions. Good luck building a navmesh in there.

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But for our simulation, it's been more efficient as its mostly data. We just need CK2 for a few parts.

old tiger
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xEdit wasn't ever meant to be full replacement for CK, especially in regards to editing cell contents

nimble sable
old tiger
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well, I understand most people do the designing in-game and then just transfer the coordiantes

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as for snaps, you can just place the snaps in in the nif, and then again just copy the coordinates, no guessing involved

nimble sable
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Makes sense. I did hear some folks working from the nif side. More or less just becomes a bit more efficient when you have CK2 versus hopping back and forth.

old tiger
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sure, for this type of work, having the editor in CK is easier...

It's difficult to copy that, because .nif files are essentially just serialized game graph fragments... so you really need to basically clone the whole game graph code

vocal glacier
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One thing I wish/hope will be part of CK2 is a materials editing mechanic like Unreal Engine has, where regions of a model are given a material slot, and custom materials can be created from a combindation of bitmap, BMP map and normal map info, with an RGB input to not only give a region's material realistic smoothness or roughness, but also give it the desired color. This would result in a more than significant degree of customizability, even when working with the same base skins. We probably won't get anything like that, but it wouls surebe nice.

upbeat furnace
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Where did the name CK2 come from when refering to Starfield Creation Kit? It would be the third CK released so far.

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It was called Construction Set before Skyrim.

nimble sable
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Creation Engine 1 was Skyrim and Fallout 4/76. Creation Engine 2 is Starfield.

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Licensed NetImmerse/GameBryo engine before that, and Construction Set built over top. So Skyrim would've been the first with a custom engine (albeit derived heavily from GameBryo to this day).

old tiger
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there really is no such thing

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You can put whatever labels you want on it, but there is no such thing in any game since oblivion which is a "game engine" that has or can have any existence separate from the actual game.

You just have Oblivion, which is a monolithic amalgamation of various third party code, own code, and modifications to third party code that forms the game.

And from then on, every new game is simply a fork of the previous game, with more changes, more third party code, and and some new code thrown in.

At no point along this sequence is there anything like a recognizable "game engine" that is any way separate or isolatable from "the game" as a whole.

vocal glacier
upbeat furnace
# old tiger You can put whatever labels you want on it, but there is no such thing in any ga...

amalgamation of various third party code, own code, and modifications to third party code that forms the game
This is the best description of a game engine. Everything we call it is just a release name label. It is still fair though for someone to refer to the engine in these games as "Gamebryo" as that is what it's bones are. The major name change between Gamebryo and Creation Engine had to do with licensing. I believe Bethesda originally negotiated Gamebryo on more limited terms. To what degree, I dont know. But for their Skyrim project they acquired the entire Gamebryo codebase with lifetime permissions. IIRC, this allows Bethesda to release new titles using their "Creation Engine" without having to negotiate every title. They got an entire fork of the Gamebryo codebase with all the things, as-is at that time (?). This has allowed Bethesda to make long term investments into their own Gamebryo amalgamation. There was an offical interview or online article from the Bethsoft.com days where they described Bethesda's long term investment into Gamebryo Engine. Id appreciate if someone can find the link. Well, as part of what they negotiated for the Gamebryo Engine, I recall it was mentioned that Bethesda is NOT permitted to say, release their own standalone Creation Engine that individuals or studios could use to build their own games. That would not be allowed from what I understand. But the name change to Creation Engine was mostly a commitment to this particular iteration of the great amalgamation.

old tiger
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well, there are actual "game engines" which are completely seperate from the actual game that they are used for later

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the thing that's being called the "creation engine" is no such thing though

autumn idol
upbeat furnace
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Looks like Gamebryo is still operating, but their website doesnt exactly seem like its trying to be competitive. http://www.gamebryo.com/index.php
Maybe they have some government contracts where everythign is gravy for them? lol

Gamebryo

The Gamebryo engine's flexibility and rapid iteration capabilities make it a top choice for a variety of 3D visual game development projects.

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Another link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebryo

Gamebryo

Gamebryo (; gaym-BREE-oh; formerly NetImmerse until 2003) is a game engine developed by Gamebase Co., Ltd. and Gamebase USA, that incorporates a set of tools and plugins including run-time libraries, supporting video game developers for numerous cross-platform game titles in a variety of genres, and served as a basis for the Creation Engine.

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Oh yea, it says so on the wiki.

Numerical Design Limited (NDL) was founded in 1983, mostly doing contract work for government and CAD clients in the computer graphics sector, though also some game developers such as Interactive Magic.

old tiger
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I think Civilization is, up to including the current version, build on it?

waxen stirrup
gaunt lotus
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Bro I just want to mod starfeild on Xbox 😭

autumn idol
amber grove
queen gyro
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I wanna have a option if we can put two reactors of three of them up plus to buy your own star station, fully customize, it put your workshop, your bed armory all all of that plus access to storage like the ship maybe maybe even Shipbuilder the market guys

random hound
autumn idol
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Only way you can use if statements

molten wolf
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I assume we won’t see any big total conversion mods until modding tools are released? Looking at nexus mods I see some stuff but nothing that says a massive total conversion yet.

split smelt
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Total conversion mods would require good tools, motivated modders and time.

strong mauve
autumn idol
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Was pretty easy to make tbh

strong mauve
autumn idol
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along withe countless other armor mods

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who ever said that SF said that the only mods there are simple replacers need to get their eyes checkedOMEGALUL

strong mauve
strong mauve
autumn idol
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99% of his stuff is standalone

strong mauve
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ahh an user, I see

autumn idol
strong mauve
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nice stuff, also has an exploration music mod, that seems interesting

autumn idol
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just need to find a way to get it standalone

random hound
autumn idol
random hound
autumn idol
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ya gonna be in for a long haul once CK rolls out

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have ya learned about any programming language and the basics of it?

random hound
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i know the basics of programming. not sure if i want to mod, i am simply curious about it. if it means other create great mods that i can use i will be happy too.

autumn idol
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once ya get the hand of papyrus its a powerful tool if used properly

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just look at stuff like Sim Settlements 2 for instance

vocal glacier
# random hound i know the basics of programming. not sure if i want to mod, i am simply curious...

I remember when I did my little bit of modding for Morrowind. I extended the Seyda Neen experience to include all the little starter quests , as well as give characters that originally didn't offer any quests something the player could engage with. At the end of it, you get a house,

I also brought Jiub into the experience. I made him the silt strider handler after I made Darvame leave for Sostheim to join Vodunius Niccius. That's where I had him end up after the player helps him leave. The way she spoke about him hinted at a romantic interest so I played into that.

But what I did with Jiub, I still consider to be clever in that if you blink you might miss it.

I made it so the first time you approach the silt strider and gt close enough to him that his name plate would appear if you look at him, His appearance changes from him in simple clothing to him in a combination of ordinator and high ordinator armor, and his name reads "St. Jiub" But when you get closer, he goes back to just being regular Jiub. It was done using 2 instances of the character, enable and disable commands and a distance check to trigger them.

I know that has nothing to do with Starfield. The point is, There are a lot of little things you can do to help you learn to work with Scripting that will ease that feeling that it's this scry thing to approach. And these are the kinds of projects you can feel confident in releasing as while you are using them to learn, you are also adding content that others might find clever at the very least.

nimble sable
mental gale
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I’m really wondering what BGS will do with the Xbox game pass / Microsoft version of Starfield in modding the game there
Since the SFSE isn’t working there or it’s hard for modders to deal with

vocal glacier
eager pier
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ETA on modding tools?

autumn idol
eager pier
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™️

mental gale
mental gale
dense garden
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Looking forward to it

old tiger
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Probably SoonTM

vocal glacier
vocal glacier
shrewd ruin
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Something I needed since day one...was low priority though, because of all the none QoL's...

vocal glacier
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One of the complaints about Starfield I have seen a lot has to do with the hand crafted points of interest that procedurally get populated onto planets are often the same multiple times in a row.

This tells me that there aren't enough of the specific types of POIs in the grab bag, and that the way the grab bag works is that the ProcGen reaches in, grabs an item and then tosses it back in the bag, thus always having a chance for it to be pulled out again. There are two solutions to this problem. The first, and obvious one, add more different items to the grab bag. The more the better, as it will decrease the likelihood of drawing the same item consecutively. The second solution is to have 2 grab bags, and when an item is pulled from the first it then gets dropped into the second. And you can't draw from the second, until the first is empty.

Combining both solutions would be optimal. Even with a massive number of items to draw from, there would still be a CHANCE that the same one will consecutively be drawn... But only if it is the last item in the first bag and just happens to be the first one drawn when you start pulling from the second bag.

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Not sure if we'll be able to modify the ProcGen mechanics, but if it works anything like loot tables and leveled lists, hopefully we'll be able to use the CK to at least add to what gets pulled from the grab bag, thus allowing for solution 1. Solution 2 would need to be a Bethesda thing, as I can't see them letting us mess with the fundamental functions of the ProcGen mechanics. At least not where official mod support is concerned, which must work on consoles and PC without 3rd party tools. Some sort of unofficial element might be needed for solution 2 to work on the modder's end, the way script extenders work. I don't know. That's stuff that's above my knowledge base.

vocal glacier
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NOTHING BUT EMPTY PLANETS:
Had a thought for a gameplay mechanic to do something about all the dead planets in the game. While realistic, "nothing to do" = "Boring." Especially in a video game. But, a dead planet doesn't have to remain a dead planet forever. Thanks to discoveries of technology left behind by some unknown benefactor (A Starborn wanting to give the current reality a leg up because their reality had already managed to crack this stuff due to history happening different) terraforming is now potentially a relatively simple process. Expensive as hell and very resource intense, but not the mind-numbingly daunting process science before the discovery suggested. Take a dead world, program the terraforming matrix, provide the resources that cannot be found on the planet itself, and let it cook., the planet would be ready to deploy industrial facilities and colonial settlements to house the people who operate them. Tie in a simulated galactic economy and trade simulation, and a planet that was once just a big rock in space could grow into a thriving point of importance to the continued expansion of humanity into the vastness of the cosmos...

This might have to be a DLC from Bethesda, but depending on how deep we can go with the official tools, it might be possible to achieve through modding. A great deal of it would be simulated, with physicalized elements reflecting the status of a variety of elements. Such as the relocation of materials from one planet to another via cargo ships. This could open up a more logistical style of gameplay, where the player can influence or directly manage the flow of resources throughout several star systems. centered in the command facility on the first terraformed planet.

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I don't know all of the dynamics involved, but it seems to me that it might provide players with a meaningful use for empty planets and give a sense that they are part of a living civilization that depends on a supply chain and people to make everything work.

nimble sable
# vocal glacier NOTHING BUT EMPTY PLANETS: Had a thought for a gameplay mechanic to do something...

We are partially doing this with StarSim. Space doesn't have much and so it was much easier to shut everything off and build the full simulation. Its a bit more complicated interacting with planets, but instead we settled on having an "orbital support station" that hooks into the planet it orbits and simulates a lot of what is happening on there including production. Vendors that are on that planet do directly pair into this station to allow their vendor containers to pull from the space economy. The rest is completely simulated for corporations "producing" on that planet. Leaves the system open for other mods handling planet-side.

vocal glacier
vocal glacier
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Whare can I go to learn more about this project?

nimble sable
vocal glacier
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Sounds good. I'd love to toss ideas into the hat.

nimble sable
sinful sierra
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I am going on record, saying it first... One of the first official mods is going to be a Nuka Girl outfit for Sarah.

misty abyss
shrewd ruin
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one more hour...stay tuned!

shrewd ruin
light hare
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Hi everyone! I'm new to the server, new to modding (as in I still haven't modded anything as of writing this message), and Starfield is my first BGS game. I'm looking to get into modding, both downloading other's mods and creating my own mods. I've already got a beginner's YouTube playlist that i'll start with. But I wanted to share some of my hopeful mods/features/mechanics I want to see come to Starfield and I wanted to hear other's thoughts on whether the community wants it too and if it's even possible to mod into the game. I've attached my thoughts in an image.

These kind of things would really re-ignite my interest in Starfield.

image.png
sharp lotus
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and the walkman yes

shrewd ruin
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Yeah. First version. There's going to be more config options in future versions. I forget to apply the actual night vision imad. Also, thank you, you're welcome.

upbeat furnace
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6 might be the hardest.

light hare
wintry tree
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So.. still no mods on console?

sharp lotus
queen gyro
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I can confirm

misty abyss
flat palm
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Hey thrill seekers! Dave here, AKA TwoDog. I was trying to get into modding, primarily to make new ship and outpost parts. Is there perchance a guide on how this is done, that doesn't involve the Creation Kit? I want to make a putt-putt golf course for my ship. And chickens with space helmets. Little parks and animal environments with domes over them.
Among others. 🙂 Its just that everything I see says "use the creation kit when it comes out." But how are people doing it without? Thanks in advance!
TwoDog, AKA Dave.

upbeat furnace
cold topaz
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have there been any updates this year on when we might see the CK, or are we still at 2024™️?

sharp lotus
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I’m fairly certain will get it this year

cold topaz
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my brain's in a 3-way fight with itself over starting a new save now, waiting like 2 weeks for the beta patch to go live & SFSE to update, or waiting for the CK launch

cold topaz
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right now it is

misty abyss
cold topaz
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I got all my mods updated, but had some housework to get done so I haven't actually started yet

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and with them I'm set up to not feel like I have to push this save into NG+ as long as I'm OK with ||killing, probably, Andreja||

cold topaz
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it'll probably need CK for someone to change cargo links to work like the caravans in Fallout 4 right?

misty abyss
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Not sure. Should be something Bethesda is expanding though, I would think. There's quite a bit left to be desired with the cargo system and outposts. A scheduler for what cargo goes out, trade directly to cities / manufacturers also seemingly missing. And since theres no galactic stock market to speak of either there's no knowing demand / supply.

sharp lotus
misty abyss
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I mean why stop with one commodity? They can build a whole economic model that fits Starfields galaxy sized universe and move away from the economy model that is "just enough it just works" to get by for basic game functions. It's tragic to keep dragging the old economy model along from as far back as FO3 / Oblivion.

Few extra lines of dialogue and 2 extra containers for vendors for supply/demand trading inside their existing scripted store system that can affect prices of goods dynamically. (The last part would require some doing in the Item system and set values / multipliers, but probably nothing a global offset value couldn't fix)

vocal glacier
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Commodity types as conversation topics rather than shop inventory items could facilitate on the fly scripted trades that impact supply and demand without directly having to touch the items systems. In this way, a commodities broker would function differently from a regular merchant.

misty abyss
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I'm all for anything that's deeper than "Khajiiit has wares if you have the creds"

cold topaz
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be real cool to be able to engage in market manipulation. It'd make the Ryujin board more worthwhile

sharp lotus
cold topaz
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I think my two like "big ticket" wishlist mods would be a version of FO4's Sim Settlements for outposts, and something like Skyrim's Legacy of the Dragonborn that expands on Constellation.

flat palm
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Hey again all! Thanks for looking! Can anyone advise me on the best place to download Blender and NifScope? Is there a particular version that is best to get? Just starting out with mods. Thanks!

vocal glacier
autumn idol
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or steam

dapper galleon
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still waiting on the xbox mods update

vocal glacier
dapper galleon
vocal glacier
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The CK is apparently in testing, as it was recently discovered on steamdb.info that Verified Creators are testing an unknown app. The only app that Verified Creators would be testing is the creation kit for Starfield. These creators are likely also working on creations that will be available day one when official mod support launches, as what is the point in launching a program if there's nothing available for it when it launches.

This is just my speculation, but based on what we know, it is logical speculation.

cold topaz
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does anyone know of a mod that adds like a ship cargo link for the player homes? My nexus searches aren't turning up anything, but I'm not certain I've covered everything someone could've called it

vivid otter
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Closest you could get would be a mod to disable outpost placement restrictions, and slap a depot down by the lodge or something

misty abyss
vivid otter
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im holding out hope that bethesda will release the 2022 planet textures as part of a high res texture pack or something

image.png
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not much can be said to be downgraded from 2022, but planet textures certainly were sized down

misty abyss
vivid otter
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nah i doubt that. planets were always separate worldspaces

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though interestingly, temples didnt always have load doors

sharp lotus
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the planets do need a higher resolution, especially if you want to have manual space flight, would look less jarring when close, or close enough

misty abyss
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It's not the resolution of the texture but the detail of the model itself. I could make this texture 16k but the model's low poly count just wouldn't make the most of it.

vivid otter
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well poly count isn't doing much in that 2022 shot i dont think. not seeing 3d details

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much more defined relief map though

sharp lotus
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Are the clouds part of the single texture or do they move independently

vivid otter
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the one thing that bugged me too much was the dirt on the starborn ships. i had to fix that lol

image.png image.png
misty abyss
misty abyss
vivid otter
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my guess in that case is a multi-layered material that pulls its resolution from the color map

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the clouds seem dynamically generated

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or at least semi-dynamic

misty abyss
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I have a lot of reservations about that but I'll not utter them here.

vivid otter
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they must blend multiple textures together somehow

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i've seen them move and transform

misty abyss
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Yeah it's just a shader layer with some panning involved but the cloud textures themselves never move, but another layer does to make it look like they're shifting / traveling.

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And I again have some issues with their approach. Clouds could be done in a single texture. But they continue to rely on some very archaic shader methods.

vivid otter
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kinda hoping they make planets' atmospheres visible from the surface of other planets at some point