#Smaller lobbies, your thoughts?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

winter wedge
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Hi dragoneers!

Our team is working on reducing the size of PvP lobbies, meaning that instead of being a 6v6 game, Century would become a 5v5 game or a 4v4 game.

This would increase readability for new players, reduce the amount of performance crashes or bugs and make queues shorter as it would require less people to create a game.
On top of that it would affect the team comps and mean that there will be more classes than slots, so you'd have to think more about what you're playing.

What do you think of it? Do you think games would feel "empty"?
Would you prefer it to be 4v4 or 5v5? Do you dislike the idea?
Would this completely ruin some game modes?

Or would this be a really good thing?

Let me know! excited

formal sun
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Hmm... personally I'd say no. I think 6v6 is balanced. It doesn't completely screw you if one or two people drop. Unlike a 4 person squad where that could ruin your chances

solar cargo
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Kinda like the idea at the same time I don't because it reducts less of a challenge than just having 4 or 5 people

vague talon
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I just want the mode that was in the event Frost & Fury qoq

formal sun
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I'd rather have private lobbies be a thing

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And team free flight

winter wedge
solar cargo
formal sun
# solar cargo PvP free flight?

Like instead of being solo in free flight you can take your squad in with you to practice team flying or to teach hatchlings

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Or just to chill without having to sit in menu

solar cargo
formal sun
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It would probably be easier to implement than custom lobbies

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While I'm thinking about it, smaller teams would mean that in something like gates or carnage, your chances would drop drastically if your teammates die

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Hatchlings vs a team with even one vet would more often than not, not stand a chance

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They'd die only to respawn in alone, get ganked, and then rinse and repeat as the next person spawns in

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Revolving door of death

winter wedge
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True, but the matchmaking would also get better in quality (because lobbies require less people), but probably not enough to make it feel good for beginners.

This is to imagine if the playerbase grows up with Season 2

fallow rampart
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I wouldn’t like smaller lobbies, 6v6 seems just right, 5v5 maybe, but anything less I feel would ruin the game

winter wedge
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But at the same time, is it better to get smoked by 4 experienced players or 6 experienced players?

winter wedge
vague talon
versed cradle
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Game just die, wher optimization? Many bags, friezes. Now why don't back the event Frost & Fury? In game we see chiters and people who just kill game

winter wedge
solar cargo
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Most cheaters are just pro players really stare

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They just know how to dodge and escape

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Because I never ran into any cheaters in beta up to here

strong grove
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1v1👍

fossil leaf
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It would be really great if they returned the Mode every cm for themselves
Where there were 8 people and everyone had to rely on their skill
Why not bring it in as a normal mode?

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People leave every month...
There are newcomers and those who have invested a lot of money here.

fallow rampart
# winter wedge Could you explain please? What would be the negative of it?

I feel like the maps are too big for a 4v4 , it would definitely seem quite empty. It works in survival since there is 3 teams however in a regular quick play match it could definitely feel empty. I feel like I was more speaking from personal preference honestly, so I dont have a lot of reasons, but I personally think I would enjoy the game more how it is currently. 5v5 I would probably be alright with however.

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Sorry my reasoning isnt super great qoq

winter wedge
fossil leaf
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You want to see only opinions that suit you!
You can't hear the players

winter wedge
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Devs are already on it so I mostly want to warn you guys + try to see in advance how it will be received. Then I'll be able to tell the devs about it

winter wedge
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It's not that I don't see your complaints, it's more that there are other places for that (and I see those every day believe me)

fossil leaf
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The player base is leaving because there is no one to play with
Skins - repaints
4v4 and 5v5 will ruin the game

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You can limit match time, not players

versed cradle
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5v5 will not change anything, everything will be the same as before, just fewer players...

winter wedge
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I don't want to start any argument, just take time to read the initial post, the goal there is actually to make matchmaking faster and make the new player experience better. Not saying it WILL work, but let's not forget the objective there 👍

fossil leaf
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We tell you right away that this will not work.👍

winter wedge
fossil leaf
fossil leaf
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If you think this is funny then keep it up.
I really like this game, but I see how it just dies
And you don't care what the players think

karmic vector
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With fewer players in the team, it will be boring to fly on such large maps...it will take a long time to find each other saduardo

mortal stump
winter wedge
raw basin
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You have a low online in the game. And instead of listening to the players, the only thing you do is repaint the skins for dragons (including exclusive ones) and introduce incomprehensible mechanics, instead of fixing old failures. Each dragon emits the cries of a marauder. Disappearing platforms at the end of the match. And how long did you correct the disappearance of the windguard, eventually "correcting" for the lack of a skin from the same dragon? A broken rank, for which points are either not awarded at all, or are withdrawn for a winning match. Yes, you returned these lost points to your friend, adding compensation in the form of gems. But what about the other players? Those who wrote you an appeal about this half a year ago and did not wait for an answer? The fact that you reduce the size of the sq will not affect the size of the game audience in any way. People will continue to leave, and once a promising project will finally die. And it's really sad. The game has zero advertising campaign. The project is not progressing, failures and errors are fixed for months... Developers prefer to ignore "inconvenient" questions by answering either superficially or not at all. I really want updates, but it's scary to imagine what will happen next. The player base is based only on ancient players who still have hope that something worthwhile will come out of the project. The concept of the game is really interesting, but how long will she live with this attitude?

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If you can't do it yourself, then read what the players write. Sometimes they really offer interesting ideas, such as introducing an in-game chat in the lobby, transferring the leadership of the squad to another player so that the team does not break up, and much more. Optimization, expansion of graphics settings, and so on. But to endlessly release recolors of skins, seriously? Yes, I understand that the game is free and developers need financial support for the development of the project.. The question is, where are all these donations going? On the introduction of the next list of bugs?

winter wedge
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Please send that somewhere else, this isn't related to this topic. I know you're frustrated but at least leave some room for discussion. Thanks 🙏

manic sentinel
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4v4 in a gates game where you spawn on the opposite side of the map sounds like a pain

past locust
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Changing the number of players in a team does not increase the number of players in the whole game

  • maybe more balance problems in the future and more frustrated players
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5vs5 is better tested diligently separately

winter wedge
winter wedge
past locust
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Yes, so it is desirable to conduct tests with games in different modes with different numbers of players to understand how the dynamics change
maybe allow dedicated players to be allowed to participate in tests to get clear feedback

manic ledge
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smaller lobbies won't fix your small playerbase problems.
instead of downsizing match lobbies, maybe start fixing all the crashes, the spectator bug, Stormraiser POV bug, and rework coins payout and Gems pricing or rewards so newer people will stick longer

winter wedge
manic ledge
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oops I'm sorry Sky you replied to that as I edited it

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on a side note, smaller lobbies might cause issues and restrictions in the future because we'll be getting new classes every season.
right now the only healer in the roster is the Windguard.
if you downside the team to 4 it will limit everyone's playstyle.

winter wedge
plucky basin
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So we don't have 12 Windguards in games anymore?smug

manic ledge
# winter wedge I think that's what the devs wanted, they want to put an emphasis on teamplay an...

here is my thoughts about why smaller team will be kinda painful, but take it with a grain of salt.
based on my solo/squad queue experience with solo being more prevalent, usually there are 2 Windguards in the team in a squad play to heal everyone and give Rage to the better players to score a decisive wipe in Carnage/Survival/Gates of Fire.

this is manageable in a 6v6 because you have 4 other players in the team that can pick up on Windguard's lack of firepower (since Blast wall damage is nerfed again) and deal with the very powerful Rage that the Windguard can give to other players.

if the Carnage game downsizes to 4v4, it will most likely fall into Survival strat where a team would pick 2 Windguard and 2 other damage dealer, because that's one of the strongest combination you can have. at this point having more than 5 classes will be oof because people will pick 2 Windguards and that leaves only 2 more empty spot to fill in.
turning the game into 4v4 (Carnage especially) will just be Survival without having to revive souls.

another thing that is worrying if you downsize the game to 4v4 is that there will be too many power ups in the game.

there are players out there that are hella good at the game and they will become unkillable if you let them cycle all the shield, health, and stamina power ups.

in 6v6 this isn't too much of a problem because there are other people needing it, but in 4v4 you will be able to cycle the power ups even more.

this is a very big issue in Spoils of War where a Marauder can just keep cycling shields, health, and stamina pick up and defend themselves with Gust while farming gold.
yes Gust recharge has been nerfed but it still doesn't stop very experienced player from being almost invulnerable.

I don't play enough Spoils of War to comment on it even further than that, but Gates of Fire will also be janky with how the spawn works like Aastrid mentioned.

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also turning the game into 4v4 and 5v5 still won't stop a group of veterans from curbstomping newbies and making them quit after getting clapped multiple times.

winter wedge
dapper dome
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Please, don't change it, my worst game mode is the 3v3 one and it feel terrible and empty, so putting it to 4v4 is a big no from me, 5v5 is not THAT bad but i feel like 6v6 perfect is does not need to be changed

manic ledge
gloomy harness
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Downsizing teams as No Shame said would hurt newer players more so than hinder the Veterans. If you do however downsize then you have to take away the amount of pick ups there are around the map to compensate for the less amount of players around.

rare cove
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maybe the game should implement 💫 matchmaking 💫 so that it doesnt immediately lose every new player, instead of downsizing teams to the point of maps being too big (valkurian sanctuary is already too big for 6v6)

harsh sun
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You guys need to start thinking outside the box. You need to think on WHY there is still such a low player base. Skill-based matchmaking is one, or two varieties of maps that need to be a thing instead of the same thing over and over. Better game modes and custom game modes when the game gets larger.

rare cove
gloomy harness
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Would it be possible with current optimization? No. Would it be possible if we limit what classes are present in the mode per team? (Like only 2 copycats of the same class per team) maybe.

rare cove
harsh sun
gloomy harness
gloomy harness
harsh sun
distant heath
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i didnt read the entire chat but i think 6v6, the current amount, is definitely better then lowering it - as many others have said there is already a low player base and while decreasing the lobby size may have a better performance affect the overall gameplay might be worse? i think for certain gamemodes it works, like skirmish and how it's a 4v4, but default lobbies shouldn't be that size

it can increase the chances of a solo queuer to be put with beginners or vice versa while the other team could be level 100s - saying this because ive had exp where i was placed with lvl 100s that wiped my team & it was not enjoyable to be put up against, especially while re-settling into the gameplay ^^

& i also just think the current gameplay lobby is fine, there's no issue with 6v6s, that resides more with matchmaking & i think thats the greater issue over lobby size atm

distant heath
harsh sun
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Wouldn't be better to add a new game mode instead?

wispy apex
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I think No Shame said it best. When you reduce the size of teams, the impact of... pretty much specifically the Windguard, but also of other classes' special abilities, becomes too outsized. I've come to despise Skirmish, for example, because the team with more Smoke Windguards wins by default. You could clear the smoke, but then you can't keep up with two Salvation Surges. Obviously that's hugely influenced by the map, which is cramped and has little verticality/cover, but Windguard's sheer healing utility with SS and indirect damage utility with Rage, as well as other classes' Rage self-heals and Stormraiser's Chain Lightning, are hugely impactful if/when you have a small group of people clumped together (because you need to stick together in order to gang up on targets and actually kill them). I believe 4v4 would require a complete rebalance which would be a terrible waste of Playwing's time and resources. Historically, content and balance updates have taken longer than expected, so if they're looking for a quick fix to stabilize the game... this isn't it.
As for 5v5... I don't like the sound of it, for much the same reasons, but it wouldn't be a huge deal I guess. But then I have to question if there's really anything to gain by dropping only 2 players per match.
I don't have a lot of new or good points to make, but I did want to add my two cents to what's already been pointed out and... try to prevent this lol. As if I could, since this is, as you said, an early warning.

sinful tusk
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Century devs try not to kill their game more even when it’s literally in deaths door challenge (impossible)

harsh sun
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We need more pvp game modes aside for what we already have

fossil sentinel
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i was playing overwatch for a while. And i say that resetting team to 5v5 is not a good option, so as making class limits. Im sorry, but i have no good feelings about your idea of decreasing lobbies size. It is not fun to play in small or empty maps. It is not fun to play game, where if u die - ur team has much much less chances to win match, since when u lose 1 player in 6v6, u left with 5v6. But if u lose someone in 4v4, u lose 25% of team power, and im telling u, it is not funny. I would rather wait 1 minute longer, but play in big lobby, where i can do whatever i want, instead of depending on teamwork. It is never good to depend on teamwork in random lobbies, since u cant control quality of ur teamm8ts, nor influence their deeds or skills directly in match. Depending on random ppl who i dont know and cant know wont make better experience in 4v4, not even in 5v5, and wont make game better, and it will not increase amount of playing ppl. So conclusion is: make game more fun by adding things to it, not by removing.

fierce egret
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I really enjoy the 6v6 dynamic and pace, it works inordinately well for Spoils - it manages to keep me engaged. I don't think 4v4 lends itself well to spoils, but 5v5 might work. I wouldn't be wholly against a move towards the latter.

However, a separate unranked/ranked dedicated 4v4 modes would be a welcome addition to this community.

ember raft
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Can we just bring back Chaos n make it Ranked instead free for all no teams 👀

ruby ermine
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to be 100% real here the up coming changes are worrying and looks to be a huge double edge sword. this update feels like there not taking account for the skilled players as much. for example skilled players already have great insight on dodge mechanics, now its going to be harder for new players to kill experienced players. then we have smaller teams with a matchmaking system that has not proven to me that it can put together even teams. and thats just some of the problems we have. long story short the games foundation is not ready for these changes in my opinion.

distant heath
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^^^^^^^^

gloomy harness
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Breaking it to where it physically can't be playable given that this is the first update that messes with team counts

harsh sun
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What the hell Sky? We said NOT to do this!

E886A797-DF1A-4330-9071-E4690FB1039F.jpg
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Are you guys purposely trying to kill the game?

distant heath
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they're only the representatives. im not defending the overall game developers, but they likely said their (and our) two cents and got ignored. the devs ultimately decide what goes through

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i wouldn't be taking ur anger out on sky who has acknowledged our thoughts this time around, more the actual devs who finalized their decision

sullen yarrow
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I would like it if we can decide on 6v6 or 4v4. With clans growing it would be easier to jump on 6v6 then having to break up with 4v4. Totally understand with having less bugs and quicker matches but it would be nice to choose between them

harsh sun
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I'm not angry? I'm disappointed

formal sun
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I'm horrendously disappointed. They should never have gone ahead with this before getting player opinions and feedback
And I know sky was trying to be helpful by letting us say our thoughts on this, but to wait until it's going to be done anyway was absolutely pointless

gloomy harness
harsh sun
muted ravine
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It could work for some modes, but this change will break gates of fire completely

wispy apex
harsh sun
kind rivet
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its not the devs making the decions either tho.....they just need a new manager lmao

solar cargo
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Please stop this madness

dreamy reef
quasi zephyr
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Might be a bit late but 5v5 please

dreamy reef
winter wedge
fossil sentinel
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instead of hiding symptoms u should heal core problem

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not to mention, why even ask about opinions, if nobody will care about them on practice

winter wedge
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Last time I say it: I asked for a specific feedback. Some people understood the question, others like you thought it was the good place to give general feedback about the game (which I didn't ask for). There are other times, other topics and other channels for that. I see how the game is going, I'm not a dev, I don't have the keys to make everything perfect just by snapping my fingers. Now have a good one.

dreamy reef
fossil sentinel
dreamy reef
wispy apex
# dreamy reef Dude I would’ve just take a the constructive criticism and not call it a complai...

I have no idea why you're picking a fight over somebody else's post from a week ago, but said post contained absolutely no mention of lobby sizes or the benefits/drawbacks thereof. I totally understand the temptation to say everything at once when we know a CM is listening, but we can make feedback threads of our own at any time.
Yes, this thread is a farce because feedback was collected with no intent to act on it, but it's become even more of a farce because literally no one is staying on topic. Sky shows nothing but professionalism and deserves some in return.

fossil sentinel
queen rune
gloomy harness
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Honestly i wish they did a weekly change between 6v6 and 4v4 rather than do a hard dedication to 4v4. Given the switch literally deleted most of the players that been around for a while at least bringing 6v6 on a weekly basis would help retain those players into the game even if it means only playing every other week which conversely helps the noobs since top players are less likely to play during those times of 4v4.

tight dome