REWORK SERAPH BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IS NOT GOOD

[lusty kiln]

Seraph suggestion Nr. 4723 .... and so on xD

Nearly all of youre Suggestions found be good by the Seraph Community since Months.... but nothing Happens so far.

I don’t understand why they don’t change anything. Whether they’re afraid to change something or whether they simply aren’t allowed to… I honestly don’t know. But the Seraph hasn’t been good since the PTS. I can say that about 20 minutes after the feedback channels on the PTS Discord went live, we already wrote that we wanted “real” passives and that we wanted to be able to use skills during the hymns. But even during the PTS they never released such functions, not even temporarily, for testing. So once again I can only say: I have no idea why, or what they might be afraid of.

We’ve already written who knows how many suggestion posts. During the PTS we asked with every patch what was happening with Seraph and when it would finally receive changes. We even sent PDF documents with balance suggestions and complete rework ideas. What else are we supposed to do for the people responsible for these changes to realize that the community of Seraph mains is simply unhappy with the class?

Let’s see how well dungeons will work when there are only buff-slave RMs left and the DD and AOE classes have to play every second run theyre Buff-Slave to build a full Team. xD

The fact is, I think it’s good that people are still trying to push for changes to Seraph. But for my part, I’m tired of investing my time and effort into trying to improve this class.

[pure notch]

Hymns are some of the stupidest skills ever , when in the world are we going to stand still to use these skills

[cerulean dragon]

@lusty kiln my guess is they are balancing mostly for siege so the whole playerbase suffer for a 1 hour activity once a week that only 20 player attend. Im also convinced keeping the players frustrated is part of their marketing strategy

[odd gyro]

3. Come on 20 sec? Atleast 5 min ffs.

[mild grove]

I like all of this. Very similar to suggestions I've made, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Absolutely #1 is being able to use skills during hymns without cancelling them. We can't just not heal while using them. It's so vital.

And I'm glad you mentioned a speed boost as well. Mages have a passive speed boost after they use blinkpool. It's hard enough to keep up with a teleport, but then keeping up with a huge speed bonus makes it unreasonably difficult. Can't tell you how many times I get dragged behind objects and posi bugged. I would like to see a similar speed bonus passive apply when we heal another player, the same way they have it after blinkpool.

These 3rd jobs have been filled with disappointment when it should be easy. All they have to do is listen to the players. We've been having to repeatedly ask for basic things to be fixed months later. I hope they consider these ideas, because otherwise they're gonna lose a lot of Seraphs.

[balmy furnace]

yeah hymss should all be like 20 min buffs and you should be able to cast regular skills during otherwise they are useless if they dont have major uptime if u cast them for 5 seconds and wait 2 mins for cooldowns

[prisma dawn]

Dont worry its the same for Crackshooter. The community gets ignored for months now. But aslong as people buy the new cash shop releases they will not change anything

[odd gyro]

Make suggestion to hold our Visa

[radiant patrol]

Hello im curious, im a newbie returnee but the fact that every other competitive player has also a slave rm shows how strong rm is. Considering a RM will eventually turn to a seraph, isent buffing it further damaging the state of the game ? Or are salve RMs very normalized already?

[forest yoke]

they should copy the old flyff skills for 3 rd jobs

[hearty canyon]

Balancing around slave support shouldn't be a thing they aren't real players they just server their purpose

while real players and main supports have to suffer with poor skill design and paying ridiculous amounts of penya for overpriced items

Just because people are finding ways to implement hymns in dungeon doesn't mean they are fine is cool people are using them but it all depends on the gear both tank and support have not everyone is able to pull it off

pvp and pve effects needs to be separated always

Just because they have the capability to buff themselves and grind that way doesn't mean they are OP or will be OP any other job with a support can do the same and a lot better

Effects cooldown scaling etc it's some they could adjust easily with testing and real feedback from main supports users not just some random player that uses their support for just buffing.

Now hymns shouldn't be canceled while using other skills that just a terrible and unnecessary mechanic

[radiant patrol]

I see, i understand advocating for this change is meant for real supporters and RM mains. Still feels like it will continue to just fuel the sRM meta. very unfortunate.

[hearty canyon]

It will that will never change

But the 3rd job skills need some work

[wild rivet]

Bump

[pure notch]

Rm is meta 😭🤣 man you don’t know what you are talking about .

[radiant patrol]

Yea i dont know but its based on the observation that most likely every competitive player has a sRM dual client , every newbie asking for buffs etc. That infact makes rm meta. I.e most effective tactic available to play flyff at the moment.

[pure notch]

RM isn’t meta, it’s infrastructure. You can play without it, but everything becomes slower, riskier, and more expensive. So in terms of having one as a slave is meta sure , but the class itself is not meta.

[mild grove]

Idk if you know this, but this game has more than 7 classes. Some people actually want to play this class as a main without it just being a "buffer". We all know the difference between somebody who's an active RM and somebody who just uses it for buffing and a few heals.

The reason we are in this situation now is because they didn't get many actual RM mains in the PTS for feedback. Everybody "plays RM", but not really, and that's why half of the new skills are garbage. It's why hymns need to be fixed. We aren't just a buffer.

[keen field]

This is a great idea. Also, I understand now the meaning why waterbomb doesnt trigger on DOT of hammerfall, its because its like very weak version of POISON CLOUD where it is attached to the mobs, not set on the ground like merkaba, same as why it only triggers stun at first hit. What I wish they would change is put a unique debuff to it where it reduces the magic defense of the mobs like with elec shock. We are on the 3rd job now, they should put better stat scaling passive buff for Seraph where it improves int and atk scaling for offensive skills, so in this case they don’t necessarily need to make big changes to the skills merkaba (mainly) and hammer of judgement (joke) where we rely our dmg since waterbomb wont even trigger properly to hammer and our offensive skills is not even affected by castbreak same as our waterbombs dmg are even far from mages waterbombs damage does, and also they have a lot of dot skills and castbreak to trigger waterbombs a lot more and even can deal crazy amount of dmg with tanky without even needing proper heal aside from initial hit and get contri exp from duo. As far as Hymns, this needs a lot of tests to rework or else everyone will have this class unlimitedly following around their main chars knowing the game overpopulated already with ALT RMS. Its sad they got a lot of ideas they copid from the game Ragnarok M: Eternal Love, but they lacked to execute this correctly don’t know if they lacked time but definitely they see early on this can get broken. Hymns were from a support/damage class which are from Wanderer and Clown. I just wish they just didn’t putted some initially prior to release and just add later on since most of them are useless. The old servers had better ideas for 3rd job skills.
If ever they rework this, one hymn at a time should be allowable and thats where two rms composition goes into picture for situational uses. It needs a lot of rework thats why it wouldreally take time for further tests.

[feral lily]

I agree with all the suggestions here and will repeat one I've made awhile ago:

Gloria, Flow of Salvation, and the healing mastery for Hammer should scale with INT, not STA.

It makes no sense to have the RM class focus on INT for 165 levels only to then suddenly scale the Seraph's 3 new healing skills with STA instead.

Its fine if they want it to scale with STA for pvp or seige or whatever, i don't have any personal input there. But for PVE, these 3 should scale with INT (or like Waterbomb, maybe scale with all stats if that's easier, whatever).

[vocal valve]

rm is the shiiiiii, brm is soo niceee

[pure notch]

The best class in the game

[halcyon patio]

I approve of this message

[odd gyro]

Ill just copy my fix from other post:

1. Passive that increase all buffs from 20+20 to 20+30.

2. Selfbuff (duration same like regular buffs) that change RM into true BRM:
   +25% Magic DMG,
   +10% All element resistance,
   -50% Heal.

3. Reduce Hammer of Justice CD to 10 sec PvE. +Trigger WB each tick

4. Hymns as pernament auras, limited to one active at time.
   (Adjust the effects of existing hymns)

[gray pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/stamp-manul-pallascat-pallas-cat-gif-3999855190590061829

[keen field]

I disagree with -50% heal that is way too much of a drawback for a 25% magic dmg, it wont even add much to our aoe dps, we’re not mages. Its the int and atk scaling that needs to be reworked for seraphs same as for how skills scales with these stats.

[odd gyro]

Not sure but other classes can't heal themselves while AoEing, they rely on lifesteal or FSRM. In my opinion as BRM can't have all, you need to sacrifice something to gain something. Also its only suggestion so values can be change freely.

By heal I mean your healing spells, not incoming healing from other sources.

[keen field]

Then don’t suggest if you have no idea, have you already seen how eles and psykeepers aoe without even needing proper heals on tank build with having crazy amount of dmg and lifesteal? Play the class before you make suggestions we’re only asking for appropriate balancing of the class when it comes to leveling matter, we’re not asking to be on a level of a mage or a dps, you haven’t even leveled a ringmaster by yourself i’m sure without relying to a duo and even with a duo the exp is nowhere can go near to the exp of the killer.

[odd gyro]

Take your medicines dude LMAO. We giving suggestions, not tickets for DEV's to do.

Mages need to have good lifesteal rolls to do that.
RM can have lifesteal on stick too for your information. Even with that -50% healing (it refers to ability casted by you [heal, heal rain], not to all incoming heal from other sources [lifesteal,heal by other players, food]) while selfbuff is active, with that 25% magic dmg + HoJ buff, you can easy sustain like mage as long you got good SoS with LS.

Problem with Seraph is low damage output with force you to play duo aoe or fs.
Also 3rd job skills are trash.

Don't worry about my competences.

[mild grove]

We aren't asking to be mages.

You don't play RM. Sit this one out. Your feedback is uninformed and unhelpful.

[balmy furnace]

holy smokes theres so many ways to "play" a class your one way isnt the only valid way.... i have a support rm i just did taliah kill quest on where i used ranger to do most of damage and then last hit with rm merk+mb+hc i didnt play as an aoe rm or a battle rm... what i want from rm is going to be very different from someone who only runs dungeons as rm. both have valid points if what they want is what they want.

[mild grove]

The problem is when they make bad faith statements in our suggestion posts, like they did in PTS saying "buff my main class, nerf everybody else". If your only RM is just a buffer support for your main, that's ok. But don't advocate against necessary fixes that RM mains need in order to be useful and good.

We got the short end of the stick compared to every other class, and I'm tired of people who barely touch RM saying "you don't need good skills". Yeah maybe they don't for their buff slave, but the rest of us do. And it takes nothing away from the other classes to allow RM mains to actually have a legitimate class with good skills.

[balmy furnace]

i mean ranger traps dont even work in pvp and they are to slow to use in pve and benefit from and other classes have things that dont work also its not just rm* edit : i just hope hyms become long buffs that benefit people near the rm i hate this cast something every 7 seconds to wait 1 min 30 for it to be up for another 7 seconds things

[odd gyro]

Wut? My propose is legit double current dmg or even more & stronger support abilities. Where I said to nerf RM? The selfbuff that you cry off, it could be fair switch between BRM and FSRM.

From where you get your info I didnt play RM? Got fine geared BRM.

I miss to old playing style that they cut off after new expansion came. Before we can do Tank / Fair AoE DMG compared to other classes / FSRM - had 3 ways to play our class. Now we force to be healers.

[vocal valve]

you can still do good dmg as brm
but just only need to spend 100b

[odd gyro]

But still lack of dmg to grind solo at high lvl, Doggos have 1,3m-1,6m HP

[lusty kiln]

I deal around 50% Less DMG with my Seraph compared to my Mage Classes and my Seraph is WAY WAY better geared.

as example:

Mentalist: Clean Adept/ Lamp+2 23% MC (6%ATK/1.5%LL)/28% ATK 150 SET (17k WB DMG) (20% PVE DMG overall)

Arcanist: Adept+3/ Conch +5 23% ES (9% Cast/1.3% LL)/28% ATK 150 SET (16k WB DMG) (20% PVE DMG overall)

Seraph: Adept +7/ SoS+6 25% Merk (8%PVE/0.9%LL/3.3%ATK)/28% ATK 180 SET (20k WB DMG) (36% PVE DMG overall)

And i think i play my Menta rly trash... a good Menta will deal here with my Menta for sure 110k DPS.

We never asked for the same DMG like Menta or Arca.. but cmon we not even deal 50% of the dmg if we got the same Gear...

[warm umbra]

To be Fair this isnt just a Seraph issue. Every class beides the mages lack aoe DMG

Edit cause of post cd: Indeed, FM got really great aoe capabilities

[lusty kiln]

And the Mage Classes stays behind Ranger, Jester, Blade, Knight and BP by 1v1 DMG... btw BP did great AOE DMG

[keen field]

What do you mean really? If rms has the capability to even 1v1 like you say why would we complain? 1v1 even had a drop and exp buff boosted to compensate with that. We wont get the same exp as 1v1 does even if we grind that ourselves with the latest gears. You want to level the aoe capabilities of 1v1s who 3-4hits every mobs with mages who deals 50k dmg+ per hit with the mobs? Thats a really great catch you got there. What Seraph needs is balancing with aoe dmg cause this class can’t 1v1 nor deal decen’t aoe dmg to level at its own phase decently, the only time this class was capable of leveling decently was during Azria already, this is not asking about “dealing the same dmg as mage classes” its so braindead that other classes can even level without proper heal and only wants it for contri exp.

[warm umbra]

I've never talked about any 1v1 capability of rms so I'm not sure where you try to get to 🤔

The comparison is funny nevertheless. Did you test any of those claims you made?

I can tell you, that as a knight (probably in terms of damage one of the worst aoe classes out there) on kaillun i still get ~30% more exp if i decide to go that "bad" aoe route in comparison to any gains I'd get as 1v1 with quite decent gear 🤔 RM should still outperform that aoe dmg, so in comparison to all those 1v1 classes (maybe with exceptions for 1v1 blades and aoe BPs) you are probably good to go.

I was addressing a different issue - right now I use a mentalist to level up 6 chars at the same time with a party set on level and i still get more exp on the individual chars then I'd get by leveling a single one of them 1v1 on contri. With an arcanist i could get probably even more exp. It's bonkers how much faster/more efficient actual caster classes can grind right now

[odd gyro]

Point is RM's 3rd job **SERAPH **doesnt exist, new skills suck - As Seraph we get abilities to fast collect mobs to do AoE, but in terms of aoe dps and support abilites where still just RM.
So were not changed much but Kaillun mobs gets 2~2,5x more health and deal a lot of dmg vs Coral ones. Rework/Buff is mandatory there.

[lusty kiln]

idk maybe its not the best test with these chars but i think you can see that even an pure 1v1 Blade just with Clean Adept can deal decent AOE DMG (damed forgot GT on the Blade xD). For Knight its an bad test because he got a lot of DMG by Reflecting WB.

Also i can´t Agree with the Point that Knight isnt a nice AOE in Kaillun, maybe its about my Playstyle but i cant AOE with any other class like my Templar... i can go with lvl 166 (100 dex rest STA) to Small Kanonicus and can Pull arround 40-50 monsters just by Healing with Tuna Sushi. And the fact the Templar can deal so much DMG just with Reflect WB DMG is disgusting.

What i try to said is, that if you fully build all Classes to AOE all Classes can be outdmg the Seraph or deal the same dmg.. the Templar just while Lvling overworld but its still strong.

[keen field]

It is compared due to how hybrid the class capabilities are, why don’t you get the logic there? Outperform really? You assume because you’re a templar main maybe you should further research how to grind with other classes so you know how each classes grinds actually.

[mild grove]

I believe I may have misinterpreted your comment.

[odd gyro]

Maybe your setup is bad. I easy get double exp compared to 1v1 as templar. Mealstorm works fine with Cutlass + Hells Gate: Hits 2 x 29k raw dmg each use. A lot WB proc from skill itself and Pain Reflect. Also knight is tanky af so you can take whole spawn ez.

@mild grove All good, were all a bit frustrated.

@warm umbra Compare classes always endup badly Everthing aside at least Knight got fine 3rd job skills, while RM has nothing useful.

[warm umbra]

I mean that's still sorta my point right here. I still make way more exp with way worse aoe gear (I have no cutlass, so i have to use a leviathan :D) on templar 🤔
Just brought that up as people argued that 1v1s with their exp/loot buff are better off then BRMs, which is not the case 🤔 but that drives the conversation too far off topic i guess so I'll just keep it at that

[pure notch]

How are you only doing 30k 🧐, I’m only 170 doing 42k

[lusty kiln]

what class??ah with 30k i think you mean Templar. Idk i think if you deal more dmg you got some Points in STR or got an Hells Gate. But i just wanna show that all classes can deal decent AOE DMG even if they also can deal a lot of 1v1 DMG.

Thats the point of this Suggestion.... the Forcemaster is an Alrounder, but the Seraph is since the Old PC Flyff an AOE Class. An that this Class falls so far behind with AOE DMG is just unfair.
BUT even with the low AOE DMG we could live with it if we got an nearly usefull 3rd Job Class-Up. Fact is the only good spell we got is Flow of Salvation.... thats it. HoJ deal to less dmg to be usefull in PVE and yea we dont talk about Hymne and passives.

I mean lets be honest....

The Hymne dont work since PTS...
The Range Mastery dont increase the Range, Blessing of the Wise effect range is not free useable, its arround the caster.... but why noone write an Bug-Report???? Its Simple : !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Noone use it, so noone cares about if it works or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pure notch]

Oh I thought you said you was doing 30k with the Seph , I was about to say

[wraith gazelle]

I have been a main RM for a very long time, always suffering with the same old issue where people who don't main RM cannot comprehend how bad our damage scaling is.

I quit playing Universe when coral island came around a long time ago, because RMs simply didn't have the damage output to efficiently kill enemies, thus creating a very frustrating solo leveling experience.

I remember I had +19 rings and demols, +10 bloody +25% merkaba, Revenis +10 28% atk, fully premmed and my merkaba hit around 22k. On enemies with 300k+ hp and HERD being a thing, it was simply not fun. The investment I made in my class felt un-rewarded. If I had invested in the same gear for another AoE class, I am sure my damage output would be so much higher.

My point here being this has always been an issue. They are not competent enough to balance the class around active/passive play and people who don't main the class always think "the class is already OP as it is".

Main RMs don't want to become mages. We want our own class identity...!
We want damage scaling from investing in our equipment to properly reflect on our damage. We want the active support play-style to be rewarded.

I love playing support in MMOs, but in this game supporting == spamming one button and eventually cleaning debuffs by spamming another button. Without mentioning rebuffing the entire group one by one every 20 or so minutes. So fun!

TL;DR: RM damage scaling has always been an issue since Coral Island. Devs aren't competent enough or don't want to balance the class. Active support play needs to be rewarded. Slave RMs being a thing damages active RMs as a whole.

[desert rune]

nothing to add here, they just need to fix seraph but they refuse to.

[fast kestrel]

As I said a few years ago, the solution to the damage problem would be to allow elemental damage in AoE attacks for all classes, at least 10%. They would have to lower the Psykeeper's damage in both PvE and PvP, as it's absurd, and change some of its abilities, like the permanent stun, giving it a cooldown in PvP. Regarding the RM abilities, they should only allow the use of the other abilities. Improving its buffs like INT, STR, STA, etc., wouldn't change anything; it would still be a class meant to be used as a slave.

[deft badge]

I'm against that, rather tweak values, I don't want my stick's element to control my damage at all

[feral lily]

Dont really have an opinion on the stick element one way or another but just felt like mentioning that the patch where Gala accidentally added elemental damage to sticks was kinda nice lol. I was sad they patched that out so quickly and sorta miss the damage boost it gave but that said not sure I'd want it added as an actual feature. Sorta in the middle on that one.

[mild grove]

They should just boost our damage with a Seraph passive, so that way it doesn't upset the low level balancing of skill damage but helps us scale with the Kaillun monsters.

[vocal valve]

seraph and this game is cooked, I'm not topping up until this get fixed

[keen field]

I think in general the class needs a balancing cause the ones in low level suffer also. Scaling itself for rm needs to be improved not just for seraphs. If they don’t want to touch int thats fine but atk, pve% and magic damage needs to scale better since it doesn’t affect heal.

[vocal valve]

up

[mild grove]

Think about it this way.

If RM didn't exist, and the assist going to 2nd job got the skills for Seraph, it would literally just be a healer class. The Hymns would never be used. The only reason people might say "oh well, it's not that bad" is because RM is a good class. But the 3rd job isn't supposed to be RM. We're supposed to have new good skills and abilities to feel a sense of accomplishment as a new class.

Knight isn't the same as Templar. They got tons of good stuff, and that's great. I'm glad. But where's ours? Where's the good stuff Seraph is supposed to have? It's basically just Divinecross and Flow of Salvation. Even Hammer of judgement has mediocre damage, duration, and 2/3 masteries are bugged. Not to mention all the other glaring issues and bugs with the moves as they currently are.

It has such great potential, and yet it's such a disappointment.

[feral lily]

Yeah I was grinding with a lvl 164 RM the other day and it really got me thinking "huh, there's nothing this RM is missing from not being a Seraph." Obviously as a Seraph I can take advantage of Flow and Hammer to gather mobs, but otherwise my damage is all still from Merk, and the other RMs skills are all still the same buffs/heals that you have as RM. There's virtually no value in being a Seraph lol. It's kinda wild.

[vocal valve]

flow of salvation is really good to gather mobs but besides that

[deft badge]

the hammer also adds damage, but they nerf'ed it too much tbh

[lusty kiln]

They Need to 2x-3x the damage of Hammer of Judgement and give them a 15s cooldown. Also the chance that he can trigger Waterbomb with all Hits (Not just the First one)…. Than we deal ok damage…. because at the Moment the Main damage ist Waterbomb from Merkaba and FoS

[feral lily]

And even then, waterbomb is only from having a Song of Siren, its not a native attack we have from hammer/merk. Which is of course true for all classes but my point is that the only way we do even moderately good damage is if we have 1 specific stick. Switching to the new Ankou weapons removes that. So we're stuck using Coral stuff, unless we go FS.

[keen field]

Yes this is what i thought so too when they made the update, reducing it to 15 atleast so we could have casted two merks already when its already up. I believe the tick dmg is what should align to the initial damage if they don’t want to add too much initial dmg to it, its just pointless having a 3rd job skill which is weaker than the 2nd job skill. Scaling in general should be improved for the seraphs, coz for psys and elems even if they dont put int in their stats and rely only on equipments, their dmg is just crazy, you would know that from your elem also for sure even if it has mediocre gear.

[vocal valve]

WAIT the hammer was better?

[mild grove]

In PTS they had more damage on it

[vocal valve]

i see

[vocal valve]

THIS GAME IS DEAD

[odd gyro]

[deft badge]

FIX YOUR GAME?
-# (dear mods, I'm just asking questions, I'm not asking for a revolution, I swear)

[hearty canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/dono-wall-gif-24048347