Is it fine to use NL subtitles until I finish stage 1? I'm thinking it should be fine because my passive immersion is basically active since I can focus on it and I passively immerse like this 2 hours a day so my brain is still getting used to the sounds, it's just active is so boring and adhd doesn't make it any easier, if not then I also want to know the particular downsides of waiting until you have a vocab base
#(Solved) NL translation usage
gentle whale
limpid boughBOT
<@&1248039856404431062> NL translation usage
keen thicket
We don't really recommend it because the subconscious work of language acquisition doesn't really happen when you can instantly understand subtitles
Most anime fans watch shows with subtitles and only ever acquire a handful of basic words. It doesn't lead to much progress in the long term.
gentle whale
Yeah but wouldn't learning words make it easier to acquire things since it'll make things i+1, my question is basically about delaying intense active immersion until 2A
I still immerse it's just not actively watching anything rather than listening
keen thicket
Sorry are you talking about subtitles in your native language or in Japanese?
gentle whale
Native language
Stage one is basically you're first 1000 words and basic grammar, I can't imagine acquiring anything without having at least those
keen thicket
So none of the sentences you encounter are really gonna be i+1 if you instantly know them from your native language subs i+1 requires not knowing an element of a sentence and figuring it out from context (with or without consciously thinking about it). As for acquiring words in stage 1, it sounds difficult but it's just a matter of investing time just like at any other stage of the journey. The struggle is to find content that is engaging at that level as you mentioned, the process of acquiring the language through input is the same at all stages.
turbid warren
Stage one is basically you're first 1000 words and basic grammar, I can't imagin...
If you check out #tools-starter-pack there's a link to the comprehensible input YouTube channel. This makes it very easy to start acquiring language even in stage one, because the meaning is made obvious by drawings and gestures.
You don't have to use comprehensible input, but if you find watching native material at this stage frustrating, I would suggest giving it a try.
gentle whale
So none of the sentences you encounter are really gonna be i+1 if you instantly ...
Yeah what I mean is only using the subs until 2A so when things become i+1 i wont be using subs
gentle whale
If you check out <#1257819751489470474> there's a link to the comprehensible inp...
I tried those but those were really boring as well unfortunately
turbid warren
I tried those but those were really boring as well unfortunately
Aw well, that's fair.
gentle whale
Aw well, that's fair.
What do u think of my plan though, the idea is waiting until my immersion will be comprehensible before I really tune into active immersion, I listen to podcast raw for now everyday for 2 hours so I still get a lot of listening in
turbid warren
What do u think of my plan though, the idea is waiting until my immersion will b...
The problem is that it will never be Comprehensible until you start trying to watch it. It's very important to get used to tolerating ambiguity.
You have to put in the work while you have partial comprehension in order to reach comprehension.
gentle whale
The problem is that it will never be Comprehensible until you start trying to wa...
That's what I said, I meant wait until the end of stage 1 on the refold site
keen thicket
Right and I'm saying that watching with NL subs are not going to do much for you. When you have 1000 words memorized in Anki, it's not gonna be like you can instantly pick out those words in real content. If you are worried about early immersion not helping out you can do a thing called the noticing game. All it is is you just try to pick out the words you learned in Anki and train your ability to understand real Japanese. Once you can pick out those words in real content, your brain can start doing the process of acquisition.
gentle whale
Even then things will be tuff but I'll at least have the basics to work with
gentle whale
Right and I'm saying that watching with NL subs are not going to do much for you...
Yeah but it's not all in anki, I'm still immersing with real Japanese just with podcast
Unless they have different Japanese I'm not really familiar I use the podcast addict app
turbid warren
There's lots of things you can do during stage one to help make native content more comprehensible, while still using Japanese subtitles.
Lookups, episode summaries, rewatching shows you've already seen in your native language, reading the corresponding chapter of manga in your native language before you watch the episode in Japanese
keen thicket
That's good. But how is watching with NL subtitles going to aid in language learning?
turbid warren
Yeah but it's not all in anki, I'm still immersing with real Japanese just with ...
What's the name of the podcast you listen to, by the way?
winged hamlet
Yeah I'd suggest just rewatching shows you've already watched in your NL before
gentle whale
That's good. But how is watching with NL subtitles going to aid in language lear...
Motivation, I'm not saying it'll directly help but I think it'll build consistency while I build my vocab so when I do eventually turn off the subs I already have a strong habit of immersion, and like I said I still listen to Japanese raw just in the form of podcast
winged hamlet
That way you can still understand what's going on from memory and you'll pick up a lot of stuff
winged hamlet
Motivation, I'm not saying it'll directly help but I think it'll build consisten...
I think sticking to subs is likely to in fact build a bad habit where you find it too frustrating to watch stuff without subs. I don't think it'll help much imo
winged hamlet
Alternatively you can do intensive from day 1 (i.e. watch without subs but do lots of lookups) . That's what I did personally but people don't usually recommend that because you're likely to burn out quickly.
keen thicket
It's good to focus on habit building cause It's a marathon not a sprint. In the long run if you start really immersing after stage 1 you will get fluent in the end so if you want to watch with NL subs then go ahead. Just realize we don't recommend it because that time could also be spent on building habits + improving language ability, as well as improving your ability to tolerate ambiguity which is a very important skill for language learning.
gentle whale
I think sticking to subs is likely to in fact build a *bad* habit where you find...
It's the opposite for me, I know because I have no vocab I'm not really getting anything out of it other than listening practice and vocab reinforcement which I already get from podcast, I think I'll have more motivation when I know I'll be able to pick out I+1 sentences
keen thicket
You think you aren't getting anything out of it. But language acquisition is subconscious so you don't realize it's happening until after it's happened.
gentle whale
It's good to focus on habit building cause It's a marathon not a sprint. In the ...
I see
winged hamlet
You're definitely getting something out of it yeah
gentle whale
You're definitely getting something out of it yeah
Probably not because of the filter hypothesis, I usually become tired if I try to actively immersion but like msbboy said I think it probably doesn't matter in the long run
As long as I'm doing some form of focused raw immersion I think I'll be fine
winged hamlet
I understand that it may be a huge block to your motivation and I wouldn't recommend you to force yourself to do stuff you don't want to avoid burning out.
But at the same time I don't think NL subs are the solution here and I think there are plenty of alternatives. Still if you're really intent on using them and you genuinely think it's going to be helpful, I guess as long as it's just a temporary thing go ahead.
gentle whale
Yeah for sure
Remember, the more you know the more you get out of ur immersion so I think I should be good
Thanks for the help though everyone
turbid warren
I cycle between
These are going to be difficult to get much out of at an early stage. The great thing about shows is that you have visuals to help you understand what's going on. But podcasts are relying on the sound by itself to help you get meaning.
For passive listening to be most effective, we suggest either re-listening to the audio from shows that you watched during immersion or listening to podcasts designed in particular to be comprehensible, like Nihongo con Teppei for Beginners.
keen thicket
If you are going to watch with NL subs, I would watch the same episode with JP subs or with no subs after as well. This also isn't recommend by us but people do it and if it gets you do to do more immersion then I think it's a good thing for now.
gentle whale
These are going to be difficult to get much out of at an early stage. The great ...
True but I'm actually getting used to the podcast and I am catching a lot of words, nihongo teppei is fine I guess but he doesn't really cover topics I like but I guess from an efficiency standpoint he'd be better
gentle whale
If you are going to watch with NL subs, I would watch the same episode with JP s...
Fuck the ken method lmao I tried that and it was even worse
Rewatching is a good idea though especially since I finished all of one piece
turbid warren
True but I'm actually getting used to the podcast and I am catching a lot of wor...
If you're picking out words you know that's great! It might make your progress slower, but if you don't mind that for the sake of enjoyment, that's okay.
The number one important thing is to find something you can stick with for the long run and not quit
gentle whale
If you're picking out words you know that's great! It might make your progress s...
Yeah I've been fighting against the urge of doing something for efficiency rather than enjoyment but definitely don't wanna burn myself out
turbid warren
Rewatching is a good idea though especially since I finished all of one piece
That would be great. Lots of people get good progress from watching one piece with Japanese subtitles.
keen thicket
One piece is pretty much perfect immersion material because it's so long. There's a guy who got to a fairly high level just free flowing One Piece I don't think he even had subs. Rewatching stuff you've already seen is definitely within refold recommendations as well.
dusk pebble