So, I was having a chat with @rose scarab the other day and he admitted that one of the reasons he was confused as to what to do while immersing was because he would get a whole range of answers, and while some of that could be attributed to higher-ups just giving vague statements or people wording their answers in different ways, making the methodology hard to understand, it was also highlighted that a lot of it came down to other, more inexperienced people or people who do not understand the methodology in general giving answers that are deemed confusing/wrong or not in line with what the methodology states. So, I'd like to request that only 2Cs or 3As and above can give answers to people who have beginner questions, however that may be implemented.
#Make it so that only verified people or people who are 2C/3A+ can answer beginner questions.
tawny wyvern
bright terrace
how are you gonna enforce that lol
tawny wyvern
That's why I wrote "however that may be implemented" at the bottom.
bright terrace
that doesn't help
young niche
This is something I can get behind, ideally. But yeah, there isn't really a way to enforce it. I kind of see the "experienced immersion learner" role as a way to help with that (even if that wasn't the original intention creating the role) but unfortunately it just wasn't a thing when fuyu was asking questions
We already thought about setting up the permissions in #1023430058288877629 so that only certain people can answer but it doesn't work because then it doesn't allow the OP to even reply.
rose scarab
Hmm a bot could help with that? For instance. For instance the bot gives the poster a temp role for that thread (I.e channel)
I know some bots do that for games I play for reporting players
In their discords
young niche
also, people ask questions in #language-discussion and #methodology-questions too and we can't control where people ask their questions. So this would have to implemented in multiple channels. And #methodology-questions is meant for asking questions and getting answers that are outside of the typical Refold recommendations anyway. Users are responsible for knowing this information when they're choosing where to ask their questions.
it's just not feasible to really enforce
tawny wyvern
It would be quite impossible to enforce, hmm.
I mean, I was thinking that someone could restructure it so that any time a question is asked, said person is to be automatically redirected to the #1023430058288877629 rather than having someone answer it straight in general or methodology questions.
Or, you could make a ticket system so that users would have to generate a ticket to access a helproom where they can get their questions answered.
@young niche thoughts?
young niche
I always try to redirect people when they ask an obvious beginner question. But again, I can't control them, and I can't control other people who continue answering the question even though I have told the person to move channels.
The ticket system would be nice and organized but ultimately it would introduce too much friction for a newbie who just wants their question answered. Or anyone for that matter. People already complain about the forum being too much friction.
tawny wyvern
That's fair enough then. I guess it can't be helped.
young niche
yeah unfortunately 😔
rose scarab
sharp aspen
Can't mods just issue warnings to under 2c/3a's answering questions they shouldn't be answering?
young niche
Could, but it could become tyrannical lol
Brett always wanted a policy of "drown out the bad advice with your good advice" rather than directly challenging the advice of others and the mod team has always tried to follow that. Because it can turn into being seen as too controlling from the pov of the rest of the community members
robust hatch
The only way they could do this is with a bot that only lets thread creator post in a thread if they don't have those roles. other than that, it would not be worth it lol. And poor tyler has done enough programming 😦 /comfort
elfin zodiac
So, I was having a chat with <@982479860817596508> the other day and he admitted...
This might reduce the amount of misguided advice put into the server but it doesn’t strike at the core issue because good advice isn’t always decided by experience. I’ve seen bad advice given by stage 4s and good advice given by 2as, which demonstrates to me that personal success isn’t the only determinant of good advice. In the case of 冬仁, nobody knew about his situation deeply enough to know that traditional advice wouldn’t be sustainable nor effective for him. From personal experience, the best advice is given when the problem and extraneous factors are made clear and the answerer has the knowledge necessary to solve the given issue.
tawny wyvern
This might reduce the amount of misguided advice put into the server but it does...
That is indeed true actually. For situations like these, extra emphasis is required and experience doesn't always determine knowledge. However, and I say HOWEVER, there have been other situations where people who don't know what they're doing have intefered while people were giving advice. The aim, rather, is to reduce that. So, rather than limiting it to a certain stage threshold, it could have been implemented such that you need a special role to give advice, such as in conjunction with a ticket system.
young niche
Giving good advice is one of several reasons we promote people to helper. So that is a "special role" that people can trust for good advice. But, still, the actual implementation wouldn't work.
Isaac is right about the core issue. Giving good advice is about considering a person's individual case rather than a stage threshold.
tawny wyvern
Exactly why I agree that it can't really be implemented. Oh well then. 😭
young niche
I just want to reiterate the point that when it comes to asking for advice, both sides have a responsibility to be as helpful as possible. The person responding has a responsibility to think about the issue and provide the best advice and not jump in to say something for the sake of it when they're actually not knowledgeable on the problem. And it's also the responsibility of the person asking for advice to provide as much pertinent information as possible instead of being vague. Low quality questions will be met with low quality answers.
tawny wyvern
I just want to reiterate the point that when it comes to asking for advice, both...
I now feel like being a troll and just responding to every question with "just immerse" now.
I mean, it technically isn't wrong advice.
raw portal
Maybe we could a thread / pinned message somewhere pointing out the issue. I see the moderation effort as not feasible, but also volts point and especially Isaac’s here. It may be a staring point to discourage people from answering questions with ten different approaches if we already see someone more experienced „handling the case“. Instead of a hard rule just something more along the term of a guideline of helping people.
Half of the people are probably gonna ignore this or think „this doesn’t apply to this and that case“, but if it helps reduce the issue it may be a good fit