#The verdict for Verdict

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

rare pawn
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More cores, higher clock speeds, and more cache

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As well as some minor IPC improvements here and there

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And its more like having 3200mhz is more kind of standard than beneficial. Its just that running slow ram like 2133mhz is detrimental to performance.

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More like its just good to not have the bad kit of ram

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Since that can affect performance by quite a bit

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Weird to explain

teal sun
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so i have below average ram

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lol

rare pawn
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Oh for sure

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Like you have dookie level DDR4

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2133mhz is the slowest speed sold for DDR4

teal sun
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so that obviously affects gaming performance then

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does that directly affect fps?

teal sun
rare pawn
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RAM latency mostly affects 0.1 and 1% lows which means it makes the game smoother and less stuttery but yeah it will also affect average fps

teal sun
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oh wait that's really good

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so random stutters will be elminated/ reduced

rare pawn
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Reduced sure

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Eliminating stutters is impossible with any system

teal sun
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significantly then though

rare pawn
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Even my system with a 10850K, 3080, and 32gb of 3600mhz CL13 ram will get stutters in some games

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But usually thats the fault of the game and not my system

teal sun
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yeah

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and the psu, i can just reuse the hp one i have now? that's confirmed to work?

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or i should still check it right

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what do i look for exactly is there a reference picture i can use

rare pawn
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According to nadaman it has all the right connectors, and also according to the specsheet he sent

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Im fairly certain it will work

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Although you can check if you want

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The only thing im concerned about is the EPS connector for the CPU power

teal sun
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what does that mean

rare pawn
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My concern was that it only has one four pin cable for the CPU which is what your motherboard requires, but the motherboard you are planning to buy needs an 8 pin. According to the spec sheet the power supply does come with two 4 pin EPS connectors which adds up to 8 and should work.

teal sun
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when you say "comes with," you mean like the cable has two four ones splitting, and only one is plugged in right?

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does that make sense

rare pawn
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I think so, it didnt specify

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Thats what its usually like

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Again you should probably look into your own system to confirm

teal sun
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terrible drawing lol but i mean like this

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like that right

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i think you already knew that's what i meant i just wanted to make sure

rare pawn
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Yeah thats what I meant lol

teal sun
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where would that be plugged in to the motherboard

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using that picture

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this

rare pawn
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On your PC or the new motherboard?

teal sun
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motherboard

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isn't that where it's plugged in

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lol

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like isn't that where i need to look?

rare pawn
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Circled in red

teal sun
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ok so when i open the side of my case, it should be plugged into there, with the other "four thing" next to it right

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and that confirms it'll work

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?

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that's what i'm looking for right

rare pawn
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Thats what id expect

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Although there could be a possibility of two entirely separate cables

teal sun
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that still works then right

rare pawn
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It should yeah

hollow swallow
teal sun
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i didn't check yet but that's what i'm looking for right

hollow swallow
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yeah basically

teal sun
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so it'll be on the left of the motherboard

rare pawn
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Yeah

teal sun
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Slight problem

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I’m confused

rare pawn
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?

teal sun
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Ignore the dust lol

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That’s where it should be right

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The motherboard is upside down I think

rare pawn
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Or your pc is upside down lol

teal sun
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No the motherboard is lol

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I don’t see that white port thing

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That you circled

rare pawn
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Can you send a picture of the whole thing

teal sun
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Wait yes I do

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Yeah

rare pawn
teal sun
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Yeah

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And I don’t see another four pin thing

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So am I fucked

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Wait wait wait

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I see it

rare pawn
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Idk take another picture

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Are there two?

teal sun
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Sorry shit photo

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On the left that’s the second one right

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And then the first one is already plugged in

rare pawn
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Yeah looks like it

teal sun
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@hollow swallow can you confirm

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i need a second pair of eyes

rare pawn
# teal sun

@waxen salmon Sorry for the ping but is there a chance that these two seperate 4 pin connectors will not fit in the 8 pin EPS connector due to them being different pinouts or because the clips wont let them enter or something?

teal sun
hollow swallow
# teal sun

hmm looks like there is another 4 pin connector

teal sun
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so we're all good right?

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are those pictures good enough to know that for certain

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i know they're kinda shit but you can see both right

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so it'll work for certain

river ore
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what are we debating here?

rare pawn
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What is there to debate about

rare pawn
teal sun
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ok thanks

teal sun
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the connectors

rare pawn
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Yeah the only concern I had was the power supply since that is the only potentially non standard thing you are transferring over

teal sun
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but the connector is the only deciding factor right

rare pawn
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Yeah

teal sun
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ok so it's guaranteed to work then

river ore
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@rare pawn what are you telling verdict to buy?

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or @hollow swallow

rare pawn
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A platform upgrade, basically everything except a GPU and power supply for now

river ore
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why?

rare pawn
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Since a 1070 is still fine for now and his games seem to be CPU bound

river ore
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what would be the cause of getting 45 FPS on Read dead redemption 2 then?

hollow swallow
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i just titled the thread this way because i thought it was funny

river ore
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if his gpu is fine

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clearly the only reason for that throttle would be an overheating pc

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which would be fixed if he bought a case

rare pawn
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But its not thermal throttling

river ore
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did he not tell you his temperatures?

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he had 93C for his gpu and cpu earlier playing rdr2

rare pawn
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His GPU wasnt in the 90s at least not in the pictures he sent

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Plus im telling him to get a new case anyways

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His CPU was in the 90s but there was no signs of thermal throttling, the 7700 throttles at 100c

river ore
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well why are you telling him to get every new part that doesnt matter besides a graphics card

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he has 16 gigs of ram already

rare pawn
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Because they do matter a lot lol

river ore
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list what you think he should buy

rare pawn
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Graphics card isnt the only important part in a system

hollow swallow
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he wanted a quieter system overall. i would like to put in a better CPU cooler instead of the shit HP cooler but the HP board cooler compatibility is horrendous

hollow swallow
rare pawn
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Plus in four out of the five pictures that he sent of RDR2 he was CPU bound lol

river ore
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he for some reason seems to think and you both seem to think ram speed matters more to FPS than a graphics card would change

rare pawn
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There was only one picture in which he was actually limited in performance by his 1070

hollow swallow
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don't kneecap CPU performance like that, lol

river ore
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which i dont understand that

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first of all

rare pawn
river ore
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his case has no ventilation and his computer had a thermal shutdown once i shouldve mentioned his room is 100 degrees

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well

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his options are

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get a case and graphics card

rare pawn
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But frankly in a purely CPU limited scenario RAM speed does matter more than a better GPU

river ore
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or get everything else

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his other parts are already good

hollow swallow
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ah yes, HP CPU cooler

rare pawn
river ore
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does a bad CPU cooler justify replacing the whole system?

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the cpu he has doesn't bottleneck a 6600

hollow swallow
rare pawn
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At least in RDR2

river ore
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you realize A graphics card is the determining factor in frames right?

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not a cpu not ram

rare pawn
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Dude...

river ore
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his fps is shit because his graphics card is shit

hollow swallow
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then why did it report so much usage

rare pawn
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Are you serious...

river ore
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clearly you arent lol

rare pawn
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CPU and RAM matter a lot too lol

hollow swallow
river ore
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not more than a graphics card

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hmm idk

rare pawn
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When your GPU is not being fully utilized because your CPU and RAM cant keep up it doesnt matter if you have a 1070 or 3090 ti lol you arent going to get better frames

hollow swallow
river ore
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you're suggesting he get new ram instead of a graphics card lol

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i wouldn't be talking lol

hollow swallow
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he can just upgrade it later

rare pawn
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Im suggesting him get a new CPU, RAM, motherboard, Case, and cooler instead of a graphics card, because his current system doesnt even take full advantage of the card

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Im not telling him to only get RAM, nor have I said that RAM is more important than a gpu

hollow swallow
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i have an 8GB RX 580 and i'm satisficed with its performance

rare pawn
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All three are very important when it comes to determining performance, and in some cases a CPU and RAM will affect performance more than a better GPU, and vice versa

river ore
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Ive told him to get a case and graphics card because he's having 2 problems

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FPS and cooling problems

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nothing else

rare pawn
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Except you dont seem to understand that CPU and RAM have a direct impact on performance, its not only the GPU

river ore
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you guys are literally just telling him to waste money

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no shit they do

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but do ram and cpu control the fps?

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no

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thats why graphics cards exist

rare pawn
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Dude what?

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You know CPUs render the frames right

river ore
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you just said CPU and ram have an impact on performance not only the gpu

rare pawn
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GPUs paint a picture

river ore
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a much less impact on the performance

rare pawn
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They still have a significant impact on performance

river ore
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except his cpu isnt bad

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what makes you think it is?

rare pawn
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Its a 5 year old chip lol

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Which loses to a 2 year old i3

hollow swallow
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well, matches

rare pawn
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Four cores and eight threads which have meh single core performance too

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Im pretty sure the 10100 barely beats it

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But its basically margin of error

river ore
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and im asking you guys

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when you know his main problem is fps

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why you wouldnt recommend to replace a 5 year old graphics card that was mid for even 5 years ago

rare pawn
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Because that graphics card is literally not his problem

hollow swallow
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still faster than my card KEKW

river ore
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuz0Y99ugl8

YouTube
Tech's Interceptor
RX 6600 XT VS GTX 1070 - RX 6600 XT benchmark in 11 GAMES 1080p 144...

RX 6600 XT VS GTX 1070 - RX 6600 XT benchmark in 11 GAMES 1080p 1440p 4K.
New graphic card AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT has been revealed in July 30th, 2021 and it will be available from August 11, 2021 at starting price of 379 US Dollars.
We have tested the new AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT comparing it with the Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 in 1080p, 1440p and 4K...

▶ Play video
rare pawn
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In all three of these screenshots his GPU is not being fully utilized lol

river ore
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and you think thats because his cpu is bad?

rare pawn
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How would a better GPU improve his framerates?

river ore
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or its overheating

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which it is

rare pawn
river ore
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he needs a new case

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whcih will solve that problem

rare pawn
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The clocks are high at 4ghz

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Its running quite hot yeah but not thermal throttling

hollow swallow
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why would overheating cause more usage

river ore
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then what is the problem then?

rare pawn
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His CPU is weak lol

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Thats it

hollow swallow
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it's loud as fuck, and the CPU upgrade would be nice

river ore
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if I had a 770 and an i7 do you think my framerates would be good on any game nowadays?

rare pawn
river ore
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gtx 770*&

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yes

rare pawn
river ore
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exactly

rare pawn
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He has a 1070 though

hollow swallow
rare pawn
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Not a 770

river ore
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just like his card

rare pawn
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1070 and 770 are very different cards

river ore
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why would you think its not thermal throttling when his room is 100 degrees constantly and his ventilation system is dog shit

rare pawn
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Because it literally shows

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The clocks are not dropping

river ore
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if the cpu is definitely the problem you shouldnt be recommending him to wipe his entire pc and replace it besides the graphics card

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ram speeds dont mean shit for one so you can just take that out immediately

rare pawn
hollow swallow
river ore
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they dont, and if you think ram speed as a whole matters more than a graphics card for FPS purposes you're brain dead

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you're suggesting he get parts he doesnt need thats literally what this is lol

rare pawn
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They definitely matter lol

unknown.png
rare pawn
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You are saying shit but show no proof of anything lol

river ore
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ironic

hollow swallow
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(fortnite)

rare pawn
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We are literally showing screenshots from reliable sources and from your friends game

river ore
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these 2 images just showed you guys think greater ram speed has more effect on a game than a 5 year newer graphics card

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am i correct?

hollow swallow
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imagine shoving words in peoples mouth

rare pawn
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How hard is this to understand, if your GPU is being held back by literally any component in the system, how is a better gpu going to resolve the issue here

river ore
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here

rare pawn
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If my car has worn tires and its not as fast in a drag race, am i going to upgrade its engine so it could go faster?

river ore
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even the indians on quora will agree with me

hollow swallow
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haha it go burr

unknown.png
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game smooth as butter

rare pawn
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We never ever said that RAM is more important than a graphics card when it comes to performance lol

river ore
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thats what you just showed with those pictures was it not

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with 2133 ram youll get 60 fps with 4248 youll get 75

rare pawn
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What we showed with these pictures is that RAM does influence performance lol

hollow swallow
river ore
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yet that doesnt increase performance as drastically as a new gpu does

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RAM influences performance

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not like a graphics card does

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which is what he wants

rare pawn
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Are you even trying to listen

river ore
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yes

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he wants more than 45 fps on ultra low settings is basically what im saying

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you guys are suggesting he get 55

rare pawn
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If his GPU is not the issue here, how will a better GPU make anything better

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Like at all

river ore
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im suggesting he get 130

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his gpu is the issue

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he gets 45 fps dumbass

rare pawn
rare pawn
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How do you know its the issue

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And not the CPU or anything else

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I already showed you his CPU is being literally maxed out and his GPU isnt

hollow swallow
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@viscid ermine yo

rare pawn
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How are you going to tell me that his GPU is the issue here

unknown.png
viscid ermine
rare pawn
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I have been trying to explain to this guy why a better GPU will not make a difference if someone is limited by their CPU in a game

viscid ermine
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ah RAM

viscid ermine
hollow swallow
# viscid ermine yo

TLDR: Verdict has a 7700/GTX 1070/DDR4-2133 2x8 RAM Omen PC

has 300-500 bucks to spend, but doesn't like the crappy omen case and would like more performance

dutch is suggesting just upgrading case and GPU, me and miata are suggesting doing a platform upgrade to a 12400F with XMP RAM

viscid ermine
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wow this dutch guy needs to stfu

river ore
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its limiting it because his room is 100 degrees at all time

rare pawn
# viscid ermine oh lmao

Also scroll up until you see the screenshots of RDR2 by Verdict and look at the MSI Afterburner figures to see what you think is the problem with his system

river ore
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times*

viscid ermine
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RDR2 is very CPU bound

river ore
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whats your favorite anime @viscid ermine

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i like one piece

rare pawn
viscid ermine
river ore
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omg really?

rare pawn
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Your CPU could be running at 90c, that doesnt mean you are losing performance as long as your clocks arent dropping

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Which we have seen that they arent

viscid ermine
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7700 hasn't aged well

rare pawn
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Literally what I have been saying this whole time

rare pawn
river ore
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@teal sun clean your pc then we can see if it changes anything

rare pawn
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New CPU, a decent cooler, motherboard to support the CPU, actually decent RAM, an SSD so that he doesnt need to only use an HDD for windows, and a good case

viscid ermine
river ore
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in terms of temp

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and fps

viscid ermine
rare pawn
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Dusting his system might make his temperatures better but he isnt throttling so it wont make a difference in performance lol

viscid ermine
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7700 doesn't have the same boosting behavior as ryzen does

rare pawn
river ore
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the clock speed of the 7700 is 3.6

viscid ermine
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it'll keep doing boost unless its actually throttling

river ore
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thats average is it not?

viscid ermine
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unlike ryzen where it'll fluctuate based on temps

rare pawn
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All core boost is 4ghz

viscid ermine
viscid ermine
rare pawn
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Intels website says 4.2ghz

viscid ermine
rare pawn
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MSI afterburner displays all core boost for the clock speed section

viscid ermine
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ah

rare pawn
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They dont display single core boost unless you target a specific core

viscid ermine
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yeah he's fine thermally then

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I just noticed this is its own thread

rare pawn
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Also this is the one example out of five where he was GPU bound, this was inside a building. His GPU was under the most load here and was at 82c which is still far away from thermal throttle territory

unknown.png
river ore
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzxneF5hTH4

YouTube
ANTIAXIDANT
RX 6900 XT + i7-7700K vs i7-8700K vs i7-9700K vs i7-10700K - Test i...

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🎮Games: - 1080p - 1440p - 4K - Ultra

► 00:05 - Cyberpunk 2077
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► 03:12 - Call of Duty: Black ...

▶ Play video
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oops wrong vid

rare pawn
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lol more shitmarks

river ore
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meant to send fortnite montage

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brb

viscid ermine
rare pawn
river ore
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actually that literally disproves everything youve said

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you can see the differences with the fps with all the diff cpus

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are minimal

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yet when someone actually has a good graphics card

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aka the most important thing

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the frames are good

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so i wonder what will fix him having 45 fps

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oh definitely a better cpu

rare pawn
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Except these benchmarks dont come from a reliable source lol

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They come from a random ass youtuber with no proof of actually owning these chips

river ore
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you sure you aren't just saying that because it proves me right?

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hang on let me get more reliable evidence

rare pawn
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Im saying that because you are using shitty benchmarks lol

river ore
viscid ermine
rare pawn
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Funny how the 7700k or the i3 10100 isnt even on this list lol

unknown.png
viscid ermine
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which is, lets be real here, essentially the same CPU

rare pawn
#

Watch him come out with another shitmark

viscid ermine
# river ore are minimal

TPU has the 12400f as faster than the 6700k (which performs almost identically as the 7700k) by 20%

hollow swallow
viscid ermine
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as games are starting to load up on more cores (see; Cyberpunk) the 12400f also makes more sense in the long term

hollow swallow
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ye

rare pawn
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Also see RDR2 lol

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That game already eats up the 4c and 8t of the 7700

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One of those games where if you got a 4 core chip you probably gotta close background applications in order to play it smoothly

river ore
hollow swallow
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source?

rare pawn
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tf is that site

river ore
rare pawn
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lmfao

river ore
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invalidate it please

rare pawn
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More of these

river ore
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without proof lol

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what exactly would anyone have to gain from false benchmarks?

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@rare pawn whats your favorite anime btw

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i like one pice

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piece*

rare pawn
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What exactly are you trying to prove by showing a 6600xt is better than a 1070

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This is common knowledge

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Doesnt mean a 6600xt will benefit him with his system

river ore
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lol

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except it will

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if you think a cpu with a clock of 3.6 and 4 cores is going to bottleneck that

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literally the only possibility of that is thermal

rare pawn
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lol

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You got any proof to show that it isnt the CPU?

river ore
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send me a userbenchmark

rare pawn
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Because I already showed you that its definitely the CPU lol

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You refuse to listen

river ore
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no you're just being silly

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his FPS is 45

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thats the same for all 1070s

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regardless of cpu

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the card is shit

viscid ermine
river ore
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wow

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when did you start watching anime

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2010?

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??

teal sun
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oh guys btw if i buy that upgrade

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don't i need a wifi card?

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or does my prebuilt have one

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i assume it has it built into the board so i can't use it on a new mobo right?

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or

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no

teal sun
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nevermind i found this

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and would i need this https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Case-Fan-Hub-Distributor/dp/B0887VG14J/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2DB2I6WPZBOQB&keywords=fan%2Bhub&qid=1656507769&sprefix=fan%2Bhub%2Caps%2C269&sr=8-3&th=1

ARCTIC Case Fan Hub - 10-fold PWM Fan Distributor with SATA Power -...

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#

i was told that the mobo in the build has only 2 fan headers

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so i need that for more fans

rare pawn
rare pawn
teal sun
rare pawn
teal sun
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can you do that without buying more stuff

rare pawn
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Also the case you are buying has two fans built in so two headers is enough

teal sun
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i know but if i wanted to add more

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like an exhaust fan in the back

rare pawn
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Buying more fans for that case wont do all that much

teal sun
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why

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are you saying it's already a good case

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like in terms of air flow

rare pawn
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Yeah

teal sun
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ok good that's reassuring

rare pawn
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Fans in general have way less of an affect on temperatures compared to case ventilation and direct cooling

teal sun
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yeah

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i just wanna make sure

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for my psu

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these all look good right

rare pawn
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Yeah

teal sun
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and my psu is good enough in terms of wattage and has the necessary cables to power all of that right

rare pawn
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Wattage yeah since it’s basically the same power draw as what you have now

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In terms of cables im 99.9% sure it will work

teal sun
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whats the .01%

rare pawn
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Actually nvm

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It will work

teal sun
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what were you thinking and why did it change

rare pawn
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I was thinking it could have been some proprietary standard

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But considering it has a second cable and its 12v and the motherboard used a standard 24 pin there is no way it’s proprietary

teal sun
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is it literally confirmed then

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i know i keep asking lol sorry

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i don't want to get everything then find out it doesn't work you know

rare pawn
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Tbh though the worst case scenario is that it doesnt work somehow and you need to sell the rest of the old prebuilt parts to get a new PSU

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So its not bad

teal sun
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i can't really sell it

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for reasons lol

rare pawn
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Oh

teal sun
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i cant forget the ram and buy a better cpu right

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for the new build

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is that mandatory

rare pawn
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Just get everything in that list

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Its all kind of mandatory lol

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Maybe except the cooler but id still recommend getting that

teal sun
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yeah

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and the cooler is significantly better than the stock one right

rare pawn
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Yeah

teal sun
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like is it that worth it for $20

rare pawn
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Looks better too

teal sun
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i know that's not a lot

rare pawn
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For sure

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I mean you get better temperatures, lower noise, and better aesthetics

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Its good enough to unlock the power limits on that CPU too for a small boost in performance

teal sun
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do you know generally the difference in temperature i'd be seeing

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with the cooler vs stock coooler

rare pawn
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At full load the stock cooler should keep you under 95c, the SE 214 XT should keep you below 75c in all scenarios with the stock power limits

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Doesnt mean it will always be a 20c difference or anything, just an estimate since I am not a human calculator lol

teal sun
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yeah ok

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and also

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i have a question regarding processors

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i was told if it has a "k" i can overclock it

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^intel

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but

hollow swallow
teal sun
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on the intel things it says like "base clock 2.4ghz boost clock 3.5" for example

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so what does that mean if it's not a "k" one

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you know what i mean

hollow swallow
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base clock is lower if it's not K, but that doesn't matter

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in a game, it will use boost clock

teal sun
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no but im saying if you cant overclock a non k one why does it say boost clock

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it boosts it automatically during games?

hollow swallow
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yes

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K chip does that too

teal sun
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oh so that does it by itself i dont need to do anything

hollow swallow
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correct

teal sun
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ok

rare pawn
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Overclocking is going past the boost clock

teal sun
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oh ok

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what about ram can i overclock the ram

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does that make a big difference

rare pawn
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The RAM I chose is really only good for XMP, manual overclocking probably wont get you far at all

teal sun
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what's xmp again

rare pawn
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And timings

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When you first boot your computer your ram might be running between 2133-2666mhz with very loose timings, turning on XMP will make it run at 3200mhz CL16 just as advertised

teal sun
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how do i turn on xmp and is that safe to do and what not

rare pawn
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You turn it on in the BIOS, and yeah its safe to do

teal sun
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that's something you turn on once and it's set for life right

rare pawn
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Basically yeah

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Are you just trying to get your system up and running and never tune it or anything

teal sun
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wdym

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i was just asking cause idk if i'd have to do it every time

rare pawn
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No you wouldnt lmao

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Everything set in the bios is automatically applied when you start your system

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It only resets if you clear CMOS

teal sun
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ok

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and what about gpu is that worth overclocking