The verdict for Verdict

[hollow swallow]

@teal sun speak here

[teal sun]

ok thanks

ok so

im using the link you sent me and im altering it

ok so

[hollow swallow]

this one? https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3vjdFg

[teal sun]

no this one wait

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

[magic fossil]

Your PCPartPicker link is invalid and won't show us your list. Please see this picture for instructions how to get the real link.

[teal sun]

this one with the motherboard

wait

wtf

hold on

[hollow swallow]

[teal sun]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZxgGjZ

this one

sorry i got muted again

[hollow swallow]

ah the 10400F one

[teal sun]

wait i just realized that doesnt have cooling

hm

i can remove the ram from that list though right

is the ram a must buy upgrade

[hollow swallow]

stock 10400 cooler was intended for the list since the budget was tight

[teal sun]

is it good though?

[hollow swallow]

tbh i feel like even that thing is better than the HP cooler

[hollow swallow]

and yeah it's fine

[teal sun]

what about the ram

you said its fine to upgrade that later right

[hollow swallow]

i suppose you can keep the RAM you have now and buy better RAM later

[teal sun]

is the ram i have now terrible or just subpar

[hollow swallow]

the latter

but in same games it would actually be terrible

[teal sun]

is there a cheaper case i can get

or is it not worth going lower than that

[hollow swallow]

matrexx 40 3fs

that's basically the lowest i would personally go

[teal sun]

or motherboard

like how do you know

like whats the difference between a cheaper and more expensive motherboard?

[hollow swallow]

connectivity and VRM quality

[teal sun]

and why does the case matter?

isn't that the least important part of a pc

like in terms of quality

[hollow swallow]

cheaper cases get damaged very easily and often have crappy acrylic side panels (it's preferable to not have a side panel at all in that case lol)

most of the cheaper cases also only come with one fan, which is bad for airflow

tbh i would rather have no case than have a shitty finger slicer case with one or no fans

put mobo on mobo box

getto test bench

[teal sun]

is there a way to filter only amazon products on pc part picker

if possible i'd prefer that

or newegg

like all one site

[hollow swallow]

you can but you need to make an account

[teal sun]

i made one

[hollow swallow]

actually no, you can just click the gear icons on the parts

[teal sun]

oh i see

is this for all parts or just that one i clicked on

[hollow swallow]

all parts on the website

when it comes to account settings

[teal sun]

ok

ill put like amazon and newegg i guess

[hollow swallow]

all the parts on my list are amazon/newegg anyway

the mobo is priced the same on newegg

[teal sun]

yeah

but i wanted like all on one

like all amazon or all newegg just to make it easer

(if possible)

[hollow swallow]

the case and PSU make that situation tricky

[teal sun]

wait one more thing

what do i do for oem parts

for the 1070

which one do i pick

[hollow swallow]

i already have it in the list

[teal sun]

like here

[hollow swallow]

i added it as a custom part

look at the list

[teal sun]

how does it know if its compatible then though

[hollow swallow]

it doesn't, you'd have to read HP's page for that

[teal sun]

oh

uh

how?

lol

[hollow swallow]

very bottom of the list

[teal sun]

im on the specifications page for the pc

[hollow swallow]

oh the HP thing

this case doesn't look half bad: https://www.amazon.com/MOROVOL-Micro-ATX-Computer-Preinstalled-Case（TW7-S2-BL/dp/B08XLXPD73/

[hollow swallow]

if you click the plus it expands the info for a given thing

ew the HP 1070 is a blower card

so converting to normal units its 11.176cm x 26.67cm?

at least in terms of length and width

thickness seems to just be two slots, that's a non issue

[teal sun]

but that's just size

[hollow swallow]

size determines case compatibility

[teal sun]

isn't there a concern for actual compatibility?

no i know

[hollow swallow]

no, because it's a modern PCI express GPU

literally all PCI express cards work in modern motherboards

[teal sun]

so it will work with any motherboard i buy

[hollow swallow]

basically yes, unless it was made in the 90s or earlier

[teal sun]

oh ok

[hollow swallow]

pci express started becoming standard in what, 2002?

2003 actually

[teal sun]

oh alright

what about cpu compatibility

same thing?

[hollow swallow]

no that's socket and chipset dependent

intel is almost always two gens for each socket

AM4 had four gens, lord knows what they'll do with AM5

[hollow swallow]

for example, the built list i've given you has an i5 10400. that uses LGA 1200, which is compatible with 10th and 11th gen. 10th gen mobo chipsets are H410/B460/H470/Z490 while 11th is H510/B560/H570/Z590

your i7 7700 uses the LGA 1151V1 socket, and that socket is compatible with 6th and 7th gen chips

officially, at least

[teal sun]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/mPpCrD

this is without ssd and ram

228

i have roughly $70 for a cooler

is that enough?

then i can get ram and ssd in the future?

ive gotten by without an ssd for quite some time now

i do definitely want one relatively soon

but im trying to prioritize what matters most to me

so is something like this viable

[magic fossil]

Your PCPartPicker link is invalid and won't show us your list. Please see this picture for instructions how to get the real link.

[teal sun]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/MyM98r

[hollow swallow]

you can get the SSD and cooler: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kdL38r

[teal sun]

damn look at you

that cooler is some random brand does that matter

[hollow swallow]

id-cooling has been known for a while

but reguardless, no

the 10400 outputs basically no heat so it doesn't matter what cooler you put on it

[teal sun]

and does it matter if cooling is liquid or not i dont know a lot about cooling

[teal sun]

still good to have nonetheless?

[hollow swallow]

does not matter for a chip like this

[hollow swallow]

perhaps, the intel stock cooler is loud and ugly compared to aftermarket solutions

it would also suck ass when using an i7/i9

i5/i3 it's fine

[teal sun]

but an actual cooler is always significantly better than a stock one right

like that one on the list is a lot better than the one that comes with the cpu?

[hollow swallow]

yes

[teal sun]

ok so at that point with the new motherboard and all

i can pretty much upgrade anything there without worry

since i replaced all the oem things apart from the gpu

assuming i upgrade the ram too

[hollow swallow]

yeah

[teal sun]

and that cpu is a significant upgrade from my i7-7700 right?

like substantial enough to warrant upgrading

[hollow swallow]

hmm

the single threaded performance would be similar since both are skylake, cache performance would be better. if you play games or multitask while playing games, the 10400F wouldn't be as chocked like a 7700 would

frametimes would be better if you play games that scale past 4 cores

[teal sun]

multitask like

if i alt tab frequently

[hollow swallow]

having programs open

for you, probably a music player(?), video game, the game launcher, and maybe a web browser

[teal sun]

yeah

and in general for gaming it will be better

[hollow swallow]

yeah

when compared to the 7700, it's an upgrade in every aspect

[teal sun]

stupid question but, i cant use all 4 ram sticks? 2 old, 2 new?

cause speeds are different

right

[hollow swallow]

i don't even know how XMP would work in that scenario

[teal sun]

what's xmp

[hollow swallow]

one kit is DDR4-3200 CL16 XMP while the other is JEDEC DDR4-2133, seems like a recipe for disaster

[hollow swallow]

?xmp

[magic fossil]

What is X.M.P.?

Extreme Memory Profile or XMP is a system developed by Intel to running memory at higher than stock speeds without the need to mess around with manual overclocking. Profiles are stored in a small chip on the DIMMs, and motherboards can read from the chip. From there, you can set your memory to higher than stock speeds.

To do this, boot into your BIOS and look for settings regarding XMP, AXMP, or DOCP. These are the settings where you will select the XMP profile you wish to use. Commonly they can be found on the main BIOS page, or maybe hidden under overclocking, advanced, or "AI Tweaker" tabs within the bios.

NOTE: While XMP is generally a stable platform, it is still considered an overclock and may not be 100% stable. XMP profiles are tuned for Intel-based systems and have a higher chance of instability on AMD Ryzen systems.

[hollow swallow]

TLDR: auto OC for your RAM

[teal sun]

the problem with my current ram IS the speed, right?

or is there something else

[hollow swallow]

it is the speed

[teal sun]

is there any risk for that

like

if i buy the new ram

and put it in and also put in the old ram

how would i test if it worked

task manager?

cause i know that shows it

[hollow swallow]

if you run with XMP off, the faster RAM would run at the speed of the lower RAM

[teal sun]

oh

so with it on, it upscales the slower ram to the faster ones?

[hollow swallow]

i would assume so

which will cause instability

because DDR4-2133 ain't gonna be quality silicon

[teal sun]

ok i guess i'll just ditch it then and use the new ones

wait i forgot did you say that processor can be overclocked?

[hollow swallow]

if the CPU name doesn't have a K in it, then it cannot be overclocked

[teal sun]

oh ok

and for motherboard, im looking for atx, not micro atx right?

im trying to switch all of them to be on amazon instead of mixed with newegg

so i may have to change motherboards

is that ok

as long as its compatible right?

[hollow swallow]

the DS3H is the only good value board

[teal sun]

there's literally no other options?

like if theres a cheaper ones thats compatible why is that bad

[hollow swallow]

the more expensive boards end up costing as much as alder lake ones

[hollow swallow]

the only cheaper B560 is the HDV, which sucks ass

[teal sun]

shit i guess you're right

i guess i can get all on amazon except one

idk i just wanted to make it more convenient

and for power supply how many watts

550 is fine?

[hollow swallow]

yes

[teal sun]

oh wait i fucked up big time

for some reason i dont have the case on this list

i think i accidentally took it out

hm

[hollow swallow]

well tbf

[teal sun]

lol

im back on the original link you gave me

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZxgGjZ

ok so

no cooler

but everything else

for $320

i mean you're the one that knows what their talking about

do i need a cooler?

or is that list good

oh shit wtf

another problem

[hollow swallow]

stock cooler works fine

it's what i would do

[teal sun]

the price for the cpu wasnt included for some reason so

with it

its $440

wtf i thought it was good

what am i missing

wait i think i found it

i had it to amazon only

with newegg the mobo was $30 cheaper

so for 293 i can get all but ram and ssd

[hollow swallow]

private

[teal sun]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/2mVkwc

whats the difference between micro atx and atx

is it literally just smaller

[hollow swallow]

micro atx is smaller yes

[teal sun]

is that build fine then

and then in the near future i can get ssd and ram

[hollow swallow]

yes

[teal sun]

gpu isnt too big for micro atx?

[hollow swallow]

correct

[teal sun]

are there any computer part sites that have major summer sales or anything that i should wait for?

[teal sun]

also i've been thinking about this all day

i'm really perplexed

i've been told this is a good idea and that it's a bad idea

current one is this

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZxgGjZ

would you personally say it's a justified upgrade?

in other words, if you were in my position, would you do this?

last question besides that is that since its matx, am i going to have any issues with less storage options and ports and what not? will it fit an ssd, and 2 other hard drives?

[hollow swallow]

i might try to shoot for the 11400F if possible

[hollow swallow]

you can fit all that in the MB311L

and frankly, most mATX cases can fit that much

it can start to be a problem if you go past 2 hard drives, 3/4 hard drives is the max for something like an NR400 but that also has 4 2.5" drive mounts

[teal sun]

oh ok thanks

yeah so my issue now is that i have people telling me this is a bad idea and people telling me it's good

but going off of what i've heard in this discord, the ram is slow as shit and a $100 cpu beats mine. i also don't have an ssd and i have a proprietary motherboard

idk what to do i'm lost

[hollow swallow]

to be fair, the 10400F wouldn't be a huge upgrade from your current 7700 in terms of single threaded performance

you would just get two extra cores

so he's not entirely wrong

the i3 12100F would be an actual upgrade

[teal sun]

And it’s cheaper?

How is that possible if it’s better

It’s $106.99

[teal sun]

But that’s just the cpu

What about everything else? Are they not enough of an improvement?

[hollow swallow]

the 12100F is an alder lake chip, the 10400F uses the same skylake cores as your 7700

[teal sun]

Alder is better than skylake?

If that’s the case then why is the 12100f better than the 10400f

[hollow swallow]

single threaded performance

[teal sun]

By a lot?

[hollow swallow]

yeah actually

[teal sun]

Like enough to warrant an upgrade from my 7700?

[hollow swallow]

so if you play games that don't need more than four cores, the 12100F is a great chip

[hollow swallow]

imo yes

[teal sun]

How do you know if a game needs more than four cores or not

[hollow swallow]

googling

but generally from what i've seen, games that use DX11/openGL or older do not use more than four cores

since they were developed in a time when four cores was common

[teal sun]

Does that mean it will perform poorly on games that need more cores?

Or worse than my current cpu?

[teal sun]

but apart from that do you understand my dilemma

apart from the cpu like the whole build itself

is that not worth it

or is it

because i'm getting mixed answers

[hollow swallow]

if you play games that benefit from 6 cores, the game will be stuttery on a 4 core chip

[hollow swallow]

i think it's worth it if you want more expandability without thermal throttling with your current system

[teal sun]

wdym by thermal throttling

[teal sun]

isn't it it worth it in general because it's an overall upgrade and it allows me to more easily customize my pc

[teal sun]

should i get a 6 core cpu then instead?

[hollow swallow]

yeah

[teal sun]

so should i not listen to people saying it's a waste of money

someone even said i'm better off selling my pc and buying a new one

but i didn't think that made sense because i'm fine with the 1070 i just want to upgrade the other parts

[hollow swallow]

yeah

and you don't have the shit cooling of the omen case/cpu cooler

[teal sun]

yeah definitely

[hollow swallow]

depends on the games you play

obviously LoL would be cake walk on any chip

[teal sun]

yeah lmao

is there a 6 or 8 core cpu that falls into my budget that i should consider?

[hollow swallow]

11400F, 12400F/12400, ryzen 5 5600

[teal sun]

if i get an amd cpu, don't i have to change the motherboard/whole build?

im a bit confused in terms of cpus. so are more cores objectively better than less cores?

[hollow swallow]

you would need to change the mobo for the intel chips anyway

unless you're talking about the upgrade itself, yeah the board is changed

[teal sun]

yeah the upgrade

[teal sun]

thoughts on this build?

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/qdXx9r

[hollow swallow]

hot box case, bomb PSU, horrendous motherboard that will probably throttle with even a 5600, no SSD

overall it's pretty icky

[teal sun]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZxgGjZ

so this is still the best one so far

[hollow swallow]

yeah

this would be a version with a 5600: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/wdf38r

[teal sun]

is there anything there to improve or is that the best i'm going to get for the ~$300 budget

oh ok thanks

out of those two, is either one objectively better?

they're both 6 core processors i thought the i5 one was 4 for some reason at first

[hollow swallow]

the 5600 is better

the 5600 has similar performance to something like a i5 12400

[teal sun]

better by a long shot?

[hollow swallow]

yeah

you could also get a ryzen 5 5500 or i5 11400F

[teal sun]

are those better than the two we're comparing now?

[hollow swallow]

the 5500 and 11400F are worse than the 5600 and 12400F, but are still a meaningful jump from a 7700

[teal sun]

oh so you're saying go that route if i want to cut costs down a bit

is the 12400 not compatible with the first build because it doesn't come up in search

[hollow swallow]

the 12400 wouldn't be compatible since it would require an LGA 1700 motherboard

the ideal choice for a 12400 is a B660 board, and the ones you'd wanna buy are too far out your budget

$130 for an MSI B660M-A

[teal sun]

so 12400 isnt an option

[hollow swallow]

yeah, sadly

[teal sun]

so the amd build is better than the initial one you made?

[hollow swallow]

this is with a 5500: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rYqcMb
this is with an 11400F: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/8hT64s

[hollow swallow]

it actually is, the 5500 has better performance than the 10400F

[teal sun]

i was referring to this one

which the answer is yes because if the 5500 is better than obviously 5600 is

[hollow swallow]

yeah

[teal sun]

so should i forget about this one then

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZxgGjZ

or do i still have the option of that one or this one

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/wdf38r

[hollow swallow]

the 5600 build is an option if you can afford it

i would actually ignore the 10400F

[teal sun]

on the amd one it says theres compatibility issues

should i disregard that

[hollow swallow]

it can be disregarded, most B450 boards have updated BIOSes for zen3 chips

[teal sun]

how does overclocking work with amd cpus

with intel it has to have a k

[hollow swallow]

you use PBO, which is basically an auto overclock

precision boost overdrive

manually overclocking will actually degrade performance and silicon quality

[teal sun]

so if i buy that amd build

i can overclock cpu and ram?

like

safely?

[hollow swallow]

yeah

[teal sun]

what about gpu?

[hollow swallow]

don't know about HP cards, you can check that yourself

[teal sun]

is this what i'm supposed to be looking for/at?

[hollow swallow]

google people's experience with OCing HP 10 series cards

[teal sun]

ok

but the cpu and ram can be overclocked with no issue?

[hollow swallow]

yes

although the only OC worth doing on ryzen is PBO2 undervolting

[teal sun]

what does that mean and why

[hollow swallow]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/khtx1o/guide_zen_3_overclocking_using_curve_optimizer/

[hollow swallow]

@teal sun dingus

lmao

[teal sun]

thanks lol

ok um

that amd build

can you somehow bring the price closer to 300

idk how you would do that but

whether its take out the ram or idk

i think the cpu and ssd are most important parts

cause its $440

is that possible

also

on the hp site, the ram speed is in mbps not mhz, so how do i compare it to the one you put into the build?

[hollow swallow]

megabits is the proper term

it's just that most ram brands use "mhz" (although it's technically wrong) since that's what people got used to

the true mhz clock speed of DDR4 kits is half of the rated speed

example: DDR4-2133 true clock speed is 1067mhz

[teal sun]

i kinda understand that

does ram speed matter that much though

[hollow swallow]

it matters quite a bit, especially for modern CPUs

and modern games

[teal sun]

shit

[hollow swallow]

tbh, i would just buy the case/PSU/SSD and then swap the HP parts into that if you can live with the crappy CPU cooler for a while

[teal sun]

just case psu and ssd? not a new cpu?

[hollow swallow]

yeah you keep your 7700 and HP board

and the RAM

[teal sun]

wait

[hollow swallow]

the mobo doesn't seem to support RAM OC so you'd have to keep what you have

[teal sun]

can i get a new everything except gpu and cpu so get a new mobo and then get a cooler for my cpu?

ram overclocking?

my current one?

[hollow swallow]

yeah the HP board

i don't think the RAM speed on it can go past 2400 mbps

[teal sun]

can i do this?

[hollow swallow]

i don't think it's worth doing unless you somehow get a Z270 board <=50 bucks

[teal sun]

so what is my best option for like 300 bucks

cause for 300 i can get a 6600 xt

which is tempting

but then the rest of my pc is shit

or i can upgrade like everything but the gpu

if i upgrade everything but gpu now, i can upgrade my gpu down the line

basically, for around 300 bucks what is my best option overall

[hollow swallow]

i would say maybe something like this: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6W2978

the MB311L sadly doesn't have the amazon rebate anymore

[teal sun]

no prices available for the case

doesnt that mean its not included

i like the other case better lol

the cooler master one

[hollow swallow]

i change the case to the H18

since it fit the budget

[teal sun]

i know but it says no prices available so isnt it not included in that price then

[hollow swallow]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/dgndnQ/thermaltake-versa-h18-microatx-mini-tower-case-ca-1j4-00s1wn-01

do you have newegg off lol

[teal sun]

maybe lol

[hollow swallow]

well that's funny, the versa is cheaper on amazon but will deliver in augest

[teal sun]

cant i include the other case since im still under 300

wait

what about psu?

[hollow swallow]

4 bucks under

[hollow swallow]

i decided to put in the HP PSU, since it uses standard connectors and a lot of PSUs in dell/HP PCs are actually okay quality

[teal sun]

wait so

for any build i do now can i do that?

reuse my psu?

[hollow swallow]

yes

[teal sun]

oh wtf

did you just realize that lol

that saves me like $50

[hollow swallow]

i didn't wanna do it at first because i was unsure of the quality

[teal sun]

you're sure of it now?

like what made you sure of it

[hollow swallow]

gamers nexus and mentions by @waxen salmon

[teal sun]

so is that like guaranteed

[hollow swallow]

well i pinged luke, i think he's busy atm

[waxen salmon]

What did I miss?

[hollow swallow]

nvm

[teal sun]

lol

[hollow swallow]

guy wants to update his i7 7700/GTX 1070 omen PC, i think the PSU is ATX sized with standard connectors

so it could be re used

[waxen salmon]

I'm honestly not sure, but if reviews indicate it

[hollow swallow]

i could tell it uses standard connectors since the mobo does

[teal sun]

is that the only thing that matters? the connections?

what about the size? is there a possibility it won't fit in the case?

[waxen salmon]

There's more to it, but the units HP uses are fine

And that you can measure

[teal sun]

ok so

can you also help me with the question i have

i want your input

i want to upgrade my prebuilt pc

for around $300

should i upgrade like everything but the gpu (and then upgrade the gpu in the near future), or upgrade only the gpu?

this is the pc i have now

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05380412

so im torn between what i should upgrade

idk wtf to do lol

a new gpu would be nice

but then the rest of my pc is kinda poo poo

[teal sun]

so is upgrading ram a must

[hollow swallow]

tbh the SSD is more important

[teal sun]

is it better to splurge more on the cpu?

so can't i cut out the ram and psu

and that money can go towards the cpu

[hollow swallow]

you could

[teal sun]

is that a good idea though

could you make me a ~$300 build for a cpu, mobo, ssd, and case then?

and maybe cooler if theres money left

or whatever

[hollow swallow]

@teal sun

i cannot think of a way to make it better for the price

[teal sun]

can i get the other case for that price though

i altered the previous one

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CvK44s

wait

how much better is 5600 than a 5500

[hollow swallow]

this goes over your budget

[teal sun]

true but not by that much

originally it was $440

[hollow swallow]

i would rather have the 5500 with faster RAM than a 5600 with shit RAM

[teal sun]

shit

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/swPnd9

this

no ram

if i can fit the ram into that

would that be a good ugprade then

[hollow swallow]

sure

it'd be nice

[teal sun]

wait so

is my ram right now like dogshit

like what does that actually affect if i get faster ram

[hollow swallow]

game performance

[teal sun]

even games that dont demand a lot of ram?

like warzone does

but if im playing like rocket league then no?

or is it always

[hollow swallow]

it is very rare to be in games that require more than 16 gigs of ram

[teal sun]

no i know

i worded that terribly sorry lol

i meant like

does ram speed always matter

[hollow swallow]

in a lot of games yes

[teal sun]

even if its league of legends or gta v

[hollow swallow]

https://kingfaris.co.uk/ram/7

[teal sun]

wait sorry lol

you said ram speed SHOULD be in mbps not mhz

so can you convert mhz to mbps then?

how can i compare the ram you wanted me to get to the one i have now

[hollow swallow]

they use the same number, so just change the word

DDR4-3200 kits are 3200 mbps

[teal sun]

how though

hp site says mine is 17000

the one you sent me said 3200

[hollow swallow]

PC4?

the PC4 number is also a proper measurement of speed

[teal sun]

yeah pc4

the impact of ram thing you sent me has 3200 as the second lowest one

and the ram you sent me is 3200

[hollow swallow]

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3508-ryzen-3000-memory-benchmark-best-ram-fclk-uclock-mclock

theres this too

GN tests ryzen 3000 instead of 5000 but it gets the point across

[teal sun]

ok so what in mhz is the speed of MY ram

so i can compare on the chart

[hollow swallow]

DDR4-2133

[teal sun]

so 2133

vs

the one you sent me, which is 3200?

[hollow swallow]

the minimum speed gamers nexus tests is 2400

[teal sun]

so mine is below average and shit?

[hollow swallow]

@teal sun btw JEDEC in this benchmark is 2400

[teal sun]

what is jedec lol

[hollow swallow]

basically, stock RAM speed

[teal sun]

so 2400

but MINE is 2133?

[hollow swallow]

yes

[teal sun]

yeah so mine is dogshit then?

[hollow swallow]

it is

for lack of a better term

[teal sun]

https://kingfaris.co.uk/blog/intel-ram-oc-impact/7

what is jedec for this one

[hollow swallow]

he lists it in the first page

https://kingfaris.co.uk/blog/intel-ram-oc-impact

[teal sun]

2400

so that already is better than mine

wait no

2127

?

[hollow swallow]

it gets the point across that you will see a huge difference by going with a DDR4-3200 CL16 kit

you can see in the benchmark that the JEDEC profile is destroyed by 3200 CL16 in kingfaris' benchmark

[teal sun]

yeah some of them are like 2 fps off

but like fortnite and overwatch are significant

whats wrong with this one again

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Fzf978

original one you made me

i took out the psu

[hollow swallow]

10400F isn't enough of an upgrade

you would be basically getting your 7700 but with two extra cores

[teal sun]

i see

this is so stressful lol

idk wtf to do

maybe it's not possible for $300

[teal sun]

what about an 6600xt or rtx 3060 to replace my 1070. thoughts?

[hollow swallow]

both are nice upgrades

[teal sun]

from a 1070?

like worth the upgrade?

[hollow swallow]

yes

[teal sun]

would it be worth it to only buy that? or if i somehow could, buy that AND upgrade the rest of the pc?

obviously both is better

but you said to get the stuff besides the gpu right

so no

[teal sun]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/wPwgzf\

thoughts?

[hollow swallow]

seems to not work

[teal sun]

oh the link

sorry here

[hollow swallow]

i'm sure the GPUs would work fine even in the crappy HP case, the 3060/3060 Ti/6600 XT don't output much heat especially stock

the fans would have to spin faster to compensate tho

[teal sun]

ok heres where i am right now

if i want purely better fps in games

should i just get the new gpu

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/WhatsTheVerdict/saved/H6JRVn

can you see this

[hollow swallow]

you could consider this https://www.amazon.com/MOROVOL-Micro-ATX-Computer-Preinstalled-Case（TW7-S2-BL/dp/B08XLXPD73

[teal sun]

i was told by someone else in this discord to find one with an exhaust fan in the back - does this matter?

and why do you recommend that one, purely because of price?

[hollow swallow]

you don't really need an exhaust fan tbh

[teal sun]

so can i stck with the original cooler master one then

[hollow swallow]

it's nice to have, but it's not a requirement

[hollow swallow]

ye

[teal sun]

so how is this then

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/WhatsTheVerdict/saved/H6JRVn

[hollow swallow]

i generally don't go for micro atx in an atx case because of cable spaghetti on the bottom

[teal sun]

but arent non matx ones more expensive

[hollow swallow]

yes, that's why i am picking micro atx

[hollow swallow]

this looks fine, i would consider the EVGA 650 GT though (get more wattage for a similar price)

[teal sun]

but the cooler master one IS matx?

[hollow swallow]

yes

[teal sun]

lol exact same price

i need help desperately

i'm torn between getting a 6600 xt or this https://pcpartpicker.com/user/WhatsTheVerdict/saved/H6JRVn

is it stupid to get a 6600 xt and put it in my shit prebuilt

also do i NEED new ram?

[hollow swallow]

@rare pawn

[teal sun]

like NEED

im trying to cut costs as much as possible

[rare pawn]

Que paso chico

[teal sun]

and maybe get a new gpu and some of the new pc

if thats even possible

[hollow swallow]

help me out here

[rare pawn]

With what

[hollow swallow]

he wants to upgrade this

since the case and CPU cooler are dogshit

[rare pawn]

Alright

Also btw thats not the prebuilt I said I worked with if thats why you summoned me

But he just wants a new case and cooler or... what

[hollow swallow]

he has around 300 bucks to work with

[teal sun]

the thing is

300 plus maybe like 200

[rare pawn]

So 500?

[teal sun]

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees?

300 for guaranteed

500 for maybe

[rare pawn]

Well $300 wont get you a decent upgrade

The power supply in there is definitely proprietary

[teal sun]

what about 500

[rare pawn]

500 sure for a CPU and platform upgrade

Keeping the 1070 ofc

[teal sun]

the main question is, do i put a new gpu in that prebuilt or do i upgrade everything else and then transfer the 1070 over

[hollow swallow]

what i did suggest for getting for $300 was putting in the mobo/CPU (it's micro atx) into a better case

[teal sun]

thats the main question

[rare pawn]

Id upgrade everything and then the 1070

[teal sun]

then the 1070 in the near future you mean?

[rare pawn]

You have the 1070 on hand right

Like its in the system right now

[teal sun]

yeah

in my prebuilt

the one he linked

[rare pawn]

Yeah im saying upgrade everything else and transfer the 1070 to that system

[teal sun]

yeah

and then upgrade it later?

[rare pawn]

Yep

[teal sun]

that's a better idea then only upgrading the gpu right now?

[hollow swallow]

yes

[teal sun]

so something like this?

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/WhatsTheVerdict/saved/H6JRVn

[rare pawn]

Yeah because the power supply probably wont support it

[rare pawn]

Sure but also why does the imbed say lancool 205 mesh lmao

[teal sun]

i changed it

[hollow swallow]

tbf luke himself said that PSUs in PCs like this are fine quality (and i checked, it uses standard connectors)
problem is that it's only 500W

[rare pawn]

Oh they arent proprietary?

[hollow swallow]

the mobo was standard size and used standard power connectors

[rare pawn]

Hmm maybe its because its an older prebuilt

[hollow swallow]

omen systems in general use more standard size parts

[rare pawn]

I know coffee lake omens do use proprietary units but the motherboard sizes are standard

[hollow swallow]

modern omen systems also use standard size parts

[rare pawn]

At least the system I worked in was like that

[rare pawn]

Btw you could get the system cheaper by getting a 500gb SSD in there instead of the 1tb and maybe going cheaper on the case

To fit that $500 budget

[teal sun]

yeah i want to do that

someone else put the 1tb

[hollow swallow]

you do have a 1TB HDD anyway

[rare pawn]

Yeah id also transfer the HDD to the new PC

As a secondary drive

[hollow swallow]

i'd say a 500 GB SSD is fine for OS + a few games and HDD for secondary storage

[rare pawn]

Wait are you positively certain the power supply uses standard connectors

[teal sun]

and a 4tb one idk if mentioned that

[rare pawn]

Because we could re use the unit and then when he upgrades the GPU then he could get a new power supply, just in case he wants a next gen GPU

[teal sun]

but i want to upgrade the gpu in the near future so shouldnt i get the 650w psu anyways

[rare pawn]

Yeah thats what im thinking because of the ATX 3.0 standard

Our current power supplies wont be compatible with upcoming GPU's

And the 1070 is still a decent card today so there is no rush to upgrade

If the power supply in the prebuilt is certain to have standard connections which @hollow swallow said it does then I think it would be best to use it until you upgrade the GPU

[teal sun]

is the ram upgrade necessary?

[hollow swallow]

yes

DDR4-2133 is very slow compared to even a cheap XMP kit, as i've already showed

[teal sun]

so it would be stupid to not upgrade the ram?

[rare pawn]

Id say its dumb not to get the RAM upgrade

RAM speed can affect performance a lot

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rKFsmr @teal sun @hollow swallow Here is what I would do, as for the PSU id re-use the one from the prebuilt until the GPU upgrade

[hollow swallow]

all amazon, jeff bezeos would be happy

[rare pawn]

lmao I didnt even notice

[teal sun]

can i change the ssd to 500gb

or is it more value to get the 1tb

[rare pawn]

You can although id personally rather spend the extra 27 dollars on double the storage

And it fits in the budget

[teal sun]

and i need the cooler?

[rare pawn]

No since it comes with a stock cooler, its a luxury since it makes the system much quieter, run at lower temperatures, and also looks a lot better

Again in my opinion is definitely worth the extra $20 and it still fits into the $500 budget

[teal sun]

and the oem psu will 100% work with all of that?

[rare pawn]

According to @hollow swallow it should since it uses the standard connections

But I personally do not know for myself

[hollow swallow]

since the mobo in the HP system has standard connections, i would assume so

[teal sun]

is there a way to be certain

or should i get the psu just in case?

[rare pawn]

You can be certain by examining it and making sure its standard

[rare pawn]

But if the board uses standard connections then it should

[hollow swallow]

wait a minute, there's no EPS connector

well that raises a question mark

[rare pawn]

There is but its a 4 pin

[hollow swallow]

oh it's further down than normal

[rare pawn]

Yeah but its a 4 pin

So if the power supply doesnt have the remaining 4 he will need a new one

[teal sun]

but if i want to get a new gpu like around christmas, am i better off getting the psu now?

[teal sun]

is this something i can confirm by opening my case

[hollow swallow]

yep

[teal sun]

what am i looking for exactly

[hollow swallow]

see this

[rare pawn]

Im fairly certain its only a 4 pin

[hollow swallow]

it probably is tbf

[rare pawn]

Like there is no other 4+4 pin attached

Which means he will need a new one

[teal sun]

id rather get the new one in case + to have higher wattage

[hollow swallow]

lol weird, i found the psu https://www.cpumedics.com/hp-ps-8501-2-500w-power-supply-80-bronze-plus-for-omen-870-envy/

it actually says 2 4pin connectors, so yeah it should work

[teal sun]

but is 500w sufficient for a 6600xt

[hollow swallow]

it draws a similar amount of power to your current 1070, so yeah

[teal sun]

so its confirmed it works

[hollow swallow]

yup

[teal sun]

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/WhatsTheVerdict/saved/H6JRVn

so this is the final build

so what can i expect in terms of gaming performance increase

my friend was saying i was stupid for doing this because i should instead get the gpu

obviously a gpu would increase frames more significantly

but i can expect a frame boost from this too, no?

a noticeable one, at that?

[teal sun]

how did you find this btw? is that the same one for sure?

cause my gpu is decent

but like in gta or even red dead

(i game at 1440p btw)

red dead all low settings i barely can maintain 60fps

goes into the 50s high 40s sometimes

so is my gpu the issue or the other shit im trying to fix

[teal sun]

but battlefield 1 max settings 1440p i easily maintain over 60fps

so idk if its bad optimization from the game's end or my cpu or what

[hollow swallow]

omen 870 series, same across all of them

[rare pawn]

@teal sun Here is the problem

Your power supply will not work with the upgraded build

Since it doesnt have a 4+4 EPS connector

[teal sun]

he just said it did though

[rare pawn]

It only has a 4 pin EPS connector which is enough for your prebuilt board but not the new board

Oh

Huh

Guess so

Either way you should double check just to make sure

[teal sun]

yeah

do you have anything to say about what i asked earlier

like why can i run b1f 1440p max settings 60fps easily

but gta and rdr2 its in the 50s at all low settings

is that optimization or is that cause of my cpu or something

like is that a game issue or my pc

and would upgrading improve that

[rare pawn]

Well RDR2 is a lot more demanding than BF1 tbf

But it could be because of your CPU or GPU

Dont know until you benchmark it with afterburner or something

[teal sun]

msi afterburner?

[rare pawn]

Yeah they have the on screen display feature which I find very useful

If you want to see what is holding you back in a game its good to see

It might be your a single CPU thread holding you back, it may be all of your CPU holding you back, maybe your GPU is holding you back, maybe your temperatures are high or something

Good to see what your system is doing while gaming

[teal sun]

wait really wtf

i need to get that now

[rare pawn]

I usually always run it while playing my games even if they run fine, I just like to see whats going on

[teal sun]

how do i know whats holding back

[rare pawn]

Btw MSI afterburner will not tell you whats holding you back, it will show you numbers and you need to figure it out on your own

[teal sun]

yeah i was gonna say that

[rare pawn]

If your temperatures are very high and your clock speeds are low, you can assume that your parts are thermal throttling

[teal sun]

well can i screenshot and you can help me with that

[rare pawn]

Sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piQa1mkzQSs Here is a guide on how to set it up

What I would have monitored is:
CPU: CPU Temperature, CPU Usage, CPU Power, CPU Clock
RAM: Ram Usage
GPU: GPU Temperature, GPU Usage, Power, Core Clock
Memory (VRAM): Memory Usage, Memory Clock
Extras: Framerate, Frametime

Make sure to mark them all in OSD

[teal sun]

sorry i went to go eat dinner

ok im downloading afterburner

[teal sun]

should i disable anything that you didn't list?

[rare pawn]

Sure, everything I listed is what you need

There isnt anything else you really need on there

[teal sun]

you said enable cpu usage but theres like 16 of them

should i enable all of them

wait nvm

[rare pawn]

No just the one labeled CPU usage

[teal sun]

im stupid

its singled out

its cpu1 cpu2 etc

[rare pawn]

There is one that is just overall cpu usage

And its just called cpu usage

The numbers are for specific threads

[teal sun]

i got it sorry

and what about any other options there

like that

or is it fine as is

[rare pawn]

Make sure to click show on screen display for everything you are monitoring

[teal sun]

yeah ok thats what i presumed

ok so now i can load up a game

and enable it

and then just screenshot it?

and send it here

should i take multiple screenshots? like once every 30 seconds or something

[rare pawn]

Sure

[rare pawn]

Bro is on ultra low graphics lmfao

Your CPU seems to be struggling

[teal sun]

really?

[rare pawn]

Yeah

[teal sun]

can you explain the numbers to me so i know what i'm looking at

like how do i interpret them

[rare pawn]

In this scenario you are GPU bound

Since your gpu is at 98%

[rare pawn]

But in this one this seems CPU bound since your GPU usage is so low

Maybe its just because you screenshot and your GPU usage spiked down?

And your CPU usage is very high, usually in the 90s

[teal sun]

so what does this mean exactly? would i benefit more from a cpu upgrade or a gpu upgrade?

[rare pawn]

CPU upgrade from what im seeing here

Also your CPU is running very hot

[teal sun]

yeah

[rare pawn]

94c, thats close to thermal throttling

At 99% usage too

Probably the work of the shitty case and cooler they put on these chips

[teal sun]

so

if i were to upgrade my cpu

would i get a performance boost in red dead?

is that a direct correlation

and would it be a significant one?

[rare pawn]

Most likely yeah, and the game should run a lot smoother too

[rare pawn]

Depends on the area you are in, in read dead

[teal sun]

and what if i were to upgrade the gpu

would that bottleneck my cpu

or like

what would happen

[rare pawn]

You probably wouldnt notice much of a difference since you would be CPU bound in many scenarios

[teal sun]

by "bound" is that the same as bottlenecking?

[rare pawn]

Not really no

[teal sun]

what do you mean by that then

[rare pawn]

Bottleneck is an overused term

A bottleneck is a consistent limitation in performance by a specific part

Any PC will have a bottleneck somewhere, otherwise you would have infinite performance

By bound I mean that whatever you are doing is limited by one component, its not the same as a bottleneck

But its quite similar

You can be CPU bound in a city in RDR2 but GPU bound while you are in a forest

Doesnt mean there is a bottleneck or that there is a problem

[teal sun]

would a cpu upgrade or gpu upgrade aid with both of those or only one or the other

[rare pawn]

For you a CPU upgrade would be better

Since you have a decent GPU already, but your CPU is kinda shit

What other games do you play?

[teal sun]

gta v, rocket league, league of legends, battlefield 1,

i usually cycle through games

sea of thieves kinda, mortal kombat, rainbow six siege

cod bo3

[rare pawn]

Yeah you would definitely benefit from a CPU upgrade

Rocket league, LoL, BF1, and R6 are all quite CPU bound

Most of the time

[teal sun]

well those games i dont struggle to run

funny enough lol

[rare pawn]

Yeah because those are made to run on just about anything

[teal sun]

yeah

but bf1 is graphically intensive, no?

[rare pawn]

Its just that in those games you are typically limited by CPU performance

[rare pawn]

Yeah some games can be both CPU and GPU intensive

R6 is another example

[teal sun]

what about gta and red dead

[rare pawn]

GTA is kinda unoptimized, it depends on your components more than anything at that point

And read dead is very heavy on both, again it will depend on your components

It will always depend on your components whether you are CPU or GPU bound, when I mean a game is CPU or GPU bound I mean that it is typically limited by that part when put in a balanced system

Like if you are playing rocket league and have an i5 12400 but you are gaming on the IGPU, obviously you are going to be limited by your IGPU more than your CPU

Despite rocket league typically being a CPU bound game

[teal sun]

yeah

i have a question

how much does dust affect the heat

like

it's a bit dusty

but i don't know if it's enough to be causing the high temperatures

like if that's the sole reason

or it's because the shit case has no ventilation and has one fan

there isn't clumps of it

[rare pawn]

A bit of dust wont do anything

Unless you literally have piles of dust in your system covering your ventilation and coolers then its not a problem

[teal sun]

yeah that's what i thought

so the case is dogshit then right

and the cooling

[rare pawn]

Yep

[teal sun]

ok so

i feel like im so close to getting this

ok so

i KNOW i need a new case

so what are my options

is it possible to like

i need a new case, new cpu, new mobo

can i keep everything else? gpu, ram, psu

[rare pawn]

You dont have an SSD right

[teal sun]

does that make sense

no i dont

i should get one

[rare pawn]

Yeah you need an SSD

[teal sun]

whats the minimum i can get to improve this situation

you know

[rare pawn]

I would recommend getting this https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rKFsmr

Cheaping out now is going to make you regret it later

[teal sun]

you're right

[rare pawn]

Although I can cut down the cost if you really really want me to

But I dont recommend it

[teal sun]

yeah that's the one from before

[rare pawn]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/yFwgzf Here is another option which saves some money, you get no aftermarket cooler which means you get the loud and subjectively ugly stock cooler, you get an ssd half as large, and a less nice case

Now if I was you id go for the other list which is nicer

[teal sun]

i would too

[rare pawn]

Its like a $60 difference for double the storage, a nicer case, and a decent cooler which is a lot quieter, better looking, and better performing than the stock cooler

Plus with the better cooler you could unlock the power limits of the CPU which could lead to slightly better performance

[teal sun]

yeah

off topic but if gpu usage is at 98% what does that mean exactly

is that normal

or does that mean a better gpu would benefit

[rare pawn]

Just means its being fully utilized

[rare pawn]

Which yeah means that if you had a better GPU it could lead to better performance

[teal sun]

but cpu is more worth it?

[rare pawn]

Yeah, and as shown from your screenshots you are mostly CPU limited

[teal sun]

and i need the new ram?

[rare pawn]

I heavily, heavily, heavily ,heavily, stupidly a lot, very much, recommend getting it

Because slow ram could decrease performance by quite a large amount

Its pretty surprising how much alder lake (12th gen) actually cares about ram latency

Im going to go eat, ill be back in a bit

[teal sun]

ok

and also how much better is that cpu cooler than the stock one

is it significant

[hollow swallow]

quite a bit

the stock 12400F cooler would honestly still be an upgrade from the HP cooler, but it would still be somewhat noisy

[teal sun]

are you in agreement that this is a good buy

[rare pawn]

@hollow swallow ^

[hollow swallow]

[teal sun]

ok so i think im just way overthinking this

so that upgrade

is

substantial from what i have now

and more substantial than if i were to only upgrade the gpu

?

[rare pawn]

Yes this upgrade will make a difference

Of course since you arent replacing your GPU not every single game will be a lot better, but you will be able to multitask way better, games will run way smoother, and windows in general will be snappier and quicker since you are getting an SSD

[teal sun]

obviously the ssd, but the faster ram and cpu will definitely improve game performance universally, right?

[rare pawn]

Yeah it should

I mean there may be some rare cases where the performance difference might not be noticeable

But those games would already run fine on your current system anyways

What refresh rate is your monitor?

[teal sun]

144hz

1440p

[rare pawn]

Damn 1440p 144hz

1070 might be lacking sometimes then

That kind of changes things, although id still get the CPU and platform upgrade first

[teal sun]

isn't it a bad time to buy gpus now anyways?

[rare pawn]

No right now is actually a pretty good time to buy one, although the market seems to be getting better and better and next gen GPU's are coming

[teal sun]

ok i dont think im gonna get a gpu but what gpus would you recommend

[rare pawn]

Either wait for next gen or if you want a decent upgrade at the very least go for a 6700xt or 3060 ti

Which are like $400 and above

[teal sun]

yeah

also

ignoring the temperatures, how would you rate my cpu

like is my cpu already bad

with the temperature issues aside

[rare pawn]

Well to put it into some perspective your i7 7700 is equal to an i3 10100f, a two year old low end chip

So its quite out of date by now although its still capable of gaming

[teal sun]

ok so that

paired with fucking 97 degrees celsius

like going from that

to a 12400f with cooling

is a massive upgrade right

like that alone is worth it

[rare pawn]

Yeah

Also the core count increase is great

[teal sun]

and the ram speed is significant too?

[rare pawn]

Not as big as the CPU upgrade but it matters

[teal sun]

what does the ram speed affect by itself

like does that affect gaming performance

or does it matter more when it's paired with another upgrade, in this case, the cpu

?

[rare pawn]

RAM speed will affect gaming performance

And as for the CPU it depends on the architecture, some care about ram speed more than others

iirc skylake didnt care all too much about ram speed although it could make a difference

But alder lake cares a lot

[teal sun]

so that one is alder lake

so that means its really beneficial then

[rare pawn]

12th gen is alder lake yeah

[teal sun]

the one i have now is skylake?

[rare pawn]

Technically kaby lake

But it still uses skylake cores

6-11th gen kinda uses the same architecture but just with upgrades