💾⠂Hardware & PC Building

[grand dragon]

✅

[marsh crow]

as an nvidia user I can confirm the hotel doesn't want to pay for the electricity bills (I bought a 4090 instead of a house)

[polar valve]

(non-biased)

lovelace is more efficient than ampere if thats what youre trying to do

and rdna3 is a powerhog by default too, so amd arent really able to speak either

[obsidian lion]

hes just regurgitating what linux neckbeards say dw

[nimble ingot]

lovelace is the most efficient arch

[nimble ingot]

amd mcm arch is awful

[marsh crow]

does CAS latency really matter in gaming

[nimble ingot]

no

secondaries and tertiary >>>

[maiden hull]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/628042724146151467/1270862317608763392/image.png?ex=66b53e43&is=66b3ecc3&hm=2b2cfc8642243d0b753a1f3884606c87111633d96b0fbcaf73c94bd1716fb126&

What the literal fuck

[polar valve]

asus moment

[marsh crow]

at first I thought "oh, DOOM theme"

then I saw the anime grill

which made me think my life is a mess

good night

[nimble ingot]

also

there is a typo on that board

at least early samples

[polar valve]

LOL

imagine paying $1.9K and getting a typo

[maiden hull]

LOOOOOOL

[nimble ingot]

wait the typo is on the fucking pic

[nimble ingot]

it says evengenlion

instead of evengelion

those mf, the typo is only on the cpu hs

vrm

[grand dragon]

evangenlion

[tulip sage]

typo just ups the value Lol

[nimble ingot]

😔 i m sorry

it s crazy, they did not fixed it since the typo was already present in one of the trailer, month ago

[maiden hull]

i am waiting.

chat what do we think UBM are gonna say

[nimble ingot]

aliexpress ptm 7950 is op

30c reduction

[maiden hull]

I’m going to tell everyone who owns a gigabyte board to update their fucking BIOS if on Intel 600+ or AM5

I refuse to navigate an older BIOS ever again

The fact that I had a difficult time finding normal settings let alone digging through to find something simple as Load Line calibration is just ridiculous

The search function is the only redeeming quality

And yet search is only available on their so called “User-centered” BIOS

That’s the ONLY thing I will say that makes any BIOS tolerable

If I can find my settings through search, I don’t care about the menus

[nimble ingot]

[maiden hull]

But if you don’t have search, don’t fucking make me go through 1 million submenus

That’s what I hated with Gigabyte and MSI

MSI is less offensive, but still meh

ASRock for me is tolerable since the settings aren’t all over the place

But man they need to backport their search keybind/button to their older boards

[nimble ingot]

yes msi is wtf

search does not even work

[maiden hull]

That too ^

I’m glad they gave search

But if it’s not gonna do its job that’s just criminal

[nimble ingot]

yes

you cant have shit nowadays

[maiden hull]

Why bother making something that works when you can just make half baked or defective parts and then make end users buy the next big thing because what you made was intentionally shit?

[nimble ingot]

[maiden hull]

someone send me the most expensive RAM in the world

that'll be my answer

[round hamlet]

No

[marsh crow]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/zhcgXL/v-color-tra532g72d834q-128-gb-4-x-32-gb-registered-ddr5-7200-cl34-memory-tra532g72d834q

[supple aurora]

yo

[marsh crow]

@polar valve

could you send the CPUs thingy again

with the 9000s CPUs

[polar valve]

what cpu thing

[marsh crow]

https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9700x/images/cpu-temperature-gaming.png

not this one

[polar valve]

just go check their review

its on techpowerup

[marsh crow]

👍

thanks

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/818422588585672704/1270768429804032020/minimum-fps-1920-1080.png?ex=66b6e113&is=66b58f93&hm=51d8a875e50f35f7b1584bb32fa5c74db76c5c1aeacc74fe83090af9ad5f032a&

[nimble ingot]

that s nothing burger

micron extended ecc ddr5 is prolly much much much more expansive

256 gb stick btw

[maiden hull]

https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B650M-C/index.us.asp this board I've been seeing in CyberPowerPC prebuilds over https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B650M-HDVM.2/index.asp

What do you guys think

[granite pollen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMballFEmhs

[nimble ingot]

he is just a fucking retord

[tulip sage]

FULTE B YPASS

[nimble ingot]

wat

[maiden hull]

Decision..,

[marsh crow]

give it to me

there's no decision

i collect computers from people called "Swearinq"

[supple aurora]

I have an ASUS TUF GAMING A17 Laptop 2022 Model ( FA706IHRB ), I got this laptop on 2nd October 2022, It's been almost 2 years and I am willing to upgrade this laptop what I have ordered right now is

SSD: Crucial P3 Plus 1TB PCIe 4.0 3D NAND NVMe M.2 SSD, up to 5000MB/s - CT1000P3PSSD8
RAM: Crucial RAM 8GB DDR4 3200MHz CL22 (or 2933MHz or 2666MHz) Laptop Memory CT8G4SFRA32A

Current Laptop Specs:

Ryzen 5 4600H
8 GB RAM 3200 Mhz ( I have 2 slots in my Laptop )
512 GB SSD ( Samsung MZVLQ512HBLU-00B00 ) - Specs - ( PCIe 3.0 x4 M.2 )
GTX 1650 Dedicated
Radeon (TM) Graphics Integrated

( Another thing I ordered is a Laptop Stand so that the airflow can work nicely I was gonna go for an Cooler but after seeing some benchmark in youtube I decided to go for a simple Stand )

Suggest me If I can do anything more and If I have done anything wrong which I can correct I have not yet recieved the products so I can cancel them.

Thanks For Helping :D

Have A Good Day.

[faint nova]

Play me in chess and I’ll help u

[supple aurora]

im shit at chess

but sure

wanna hop in?

[faint nova]

LOL

[lone jackal]

4 blocked messages

I wonder who…

[round hamlet]

Wasn’t he saying he was a gm or smth awhile ago

[marsh crow]

how's the 5700x3d compared to the 7600x

"performance per dollar wise"

[obsidian lion]

dont even think of going am4

[nimble ingot]

true

7800x3d at very least

5800x3dvis still competitive but ddr4 is a no

[supple aurora]

never did....

[supple aurora]

^^

if anyone's willing to help

[maiden hull]

@polar valve this board has been popping up commonly for me with CyberPowerPC prebuilts lol

I’m hoping one day to find a VRM stress test I wanna see how bad it gets

[pale coral]

forget vrm test, most cyberpower and ibuypower, and alienware prebuilts, with amd cpu if you open ryzen master, more times then not all the tdp and other power related settings all run at 100%, like straight up the cpu cant even get more performance with pbo cause its already drawing power to the motherboards limits 😭

[long depot]

Anyone have experience with a good wifi card? On Amazon preferably

[lone jackal]

most tp link cards r good from my experience

but id reccomend using ethernet

i have a yoinked up wifi card and ive used it a total of

2 times

[long depot]

Been using Ethernet for years but unfortunately that isn’t an option anymore after I’ve moved houses and my parents would kill if I drill holes so my only option is WiFi card just don’t know which one

I’ve heard that going for an intel base card is good but I have no idea how to know if the card has an intel base

[pale coral]

ngl I've seen ppl do some crazy shit for ethernet, I have one homie he threw an ethernet cord from the second floor of his house, out the window and into the basement window for ethernet since his parents were against holes aswell or a wire running through the house

😭

if it works it works

[polar valve]

wtaf LOL

[maiden hull]

My parents were willing to drill a hole once back in 2017 for ethernet. But that was the only time

As a result I have a switch downstairs

Which either way is good to have

[long depot]

what

at that point just get a second router

wtf

[round hamlet]

No

[maiden hull]

REAL

[granite pollen]

9800x3d.

[obsidian lion]

not even released :p

[uneven goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/clash-royale-heheheha-grrr-emote-king-gif-24764224

[wintry tusk]

whats a good i3

looking for something thats either 11th - 13th gen

[velvet isle]

Why an i3 specifically?

[wintry tusk]

idk

p cheap

[velvet isle]

Just say what your budget is and any other specific requirements

[wintry tusk]

depends on how much im gonna make for video editing

300 usd

but its alot on my country

just remember that

i wanna get a cpu (preferbely intel)

and a rx 570

[velvet isle]

Do you have a mobo that supports it?

[wintry tusk]

i think itsa a good gpu for the price

[polar valve]

none

[velvet isle]

You could do better

[wintry tusk]

dont think so

[wintry tusk]

what then?

oh ye i fixed the disk problems

that disk was ded

[velvet isle]

Depends on your budget too

[wintry tusk]

60g in bad sectors

[wintry tusk]

300 usd

lets say 350

[velvet isle]

Is the 300 for everything or just the CPU?

[wintry tusk]

uuuu

e

everyth

everything

0-0

idk tbh how much ill make

my main focus would prob be to get a gpu

something thats better than a intel i5 2nd gens igpu

💀

[velvet isle]

What’s your ram rn?

[wintry tusk]

12g

ddr3

mate ik its ridonculos

but its still a pc

gotta be grateful

times are tough

lets say a gpu from 150 - 250 usd

as i said

alot of money where i live

[velvet isle]

You’d have to get a new motherboard to upgrade your CPU, which would also require new RAM, and a GPU too

[wintry tusk]

ik

but i can still just put in a gpu isn't

[velvet isle]

You might just see if you can get a prebuilt for a decent price

[wintry tusk]

without having to put a new cpu and stuff

[velvet isle]

Or some used pc off of a local marketplace site

[wintry tusk]

and shove in a gpu?

[velvet isle]

Yeah

[wintry tusk]

so u dont have to change the cpu

ok i understand

[wintry tusk]

what abt a school/office pc

like some dell optiplex or smth

and shove in a gpu

[velvet isle]

Depends on the specs

[wintry tusk]

https://www.takealot.com/refurbished-dell-optiplex-7010-intelcore-i3-2nd-gen-4gb-ram-250-/PLID95680900

convert this to usd

and see the price

how tf

[velvet isle]

Just go to pcpartpicker and enter in the specs to see what it’s worth brand new

[wintry tusk]

did u see the price

kmao

whats a good gpu for 200 bucks?

i mainly want that

i dont need to replace the cpu

linus tech tips

made a pc

for 169$

wait a minute

a found a steal

https://gogadgets.co.za/products/refurbished-dell-optiplex-9020-mini-tower-i7-4770-16gb-ddr3-256gb-ssd-desktop-computer-b-grade?variant=44443377631409&sfdr_ptcid=43242_617_706014320&sfdr_hash=03d46d22039fac0b3e0eef23b80e9376&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoJa2BhBPEiwA0l0ImIDy6fcsQzVJr5Ya3S6m22Yzw1mHNCV7OHp8tobUKHLZNqkDA0BexBoCVRoQAvD_BwE

this is damn cheap

omw

even tho its a old cpu

with a decent gpu it

could do the job

can u put in rx 570 tho?

[granite pollen]

what do you have rn>

[wintry tusk]

idk

some hp pc

but trash

2nd gen i5

igpu

[wintry tusk]

this looks good

i7 4770

and i wanna either get a rx 570

or gtx 1060

but idk

[nimble ingot]

rtx 3060

[wintry tusk]

💀

[maiden hull]

https://x.com/GregSalazarYT/status/1827012304874938542

Greg Salazar (@GregSalazarYT) on X

Deepcool could no longer sell in the USA due to sanctions violations involving the Russo-Ukrainian War, so they changed their name to ShakingTank on Amazon and blurred out their own logos 💀

Twitter · Aug 23, 2024, 3:57 PM

[wintry tusk]

lmao

[pale coral]

LMFAO

so real

[uneven goblet]

Damn

They really don't give a fuck

[maiden hull]

https://youtu.be/rlfTHCzBnnQ?si=2OhemHJ9baW_tWYa

[lone jackal]

Team anyone got a good build 1k gbp~ preferably am5 red team or green idc

[maiden hull]

prices

[sand geyser]

fairly insane

i discovered my 4k tv can also do 1440p 120hz

natively

time to get a 7 meter long hdmi cable from my pc

[grand dragon]

with bars or scaling?

scaling will look bad probably

[sand geyser]

scaling from 1440 to 4k

[grand dragon]

unless it's 1080p, not 1440p

[sand geyser]

it doesn't look that bad really

the scaling on this tv is quite good

should've said natively supports 120hz

but I tested it with 12th gen Iris Xe, so maybe it is 4k120 but gpu limited? idk

actually maybe i'm stupid

native refresh of panel's 60hz in specs, but it supports 120 input? wtf

[nimble ingot]

will not work

[maiden hull]

https://www.asrock.com/microsite/AMD AM5 Ryzen 9000 X3D X870E X870/

[polar valve]

my beloved taichi lite

[maiden hull]

I’m a bit confused with the 5 Gbps Ethernet

I’m guessing it might just be cost? Sure if it’s replacing 2.5Gbps I’ll accept it

Just… 10 Gbps exists

But I don’t know the cost for MB manufacturers to implement so no idea

[pale coral]

Isn’t the point of 5 gbps is to have more then one 2.5gb mb in use at the same time

[maiden hull]

Maybe?

[maiden hull]

ASUS: oh yeah we also got 5 Gbps

ASRock: B-b-b-but b-but but we’re patent pending!!!!!!

Guess MSI is reviving what ASUS and ASRock did in the past

[maiden hull]

Oh

[maiden hull]

https://youtu.be/izqEZmjTfuM?si=LT4zSJwcGBSvmeF3

[maiden hull]

https://x.com/harukaze5719/status/1831336455052165235

포시포시 (@harukaze5719) on X

OH MY GOD

LOOK AT THE REAR IO!!!!!!!

Twitter · Sep 4, 2024, 2:20 PM

https://x.com/harukaze5719/status/1831337489736642668

포시포시 (@harukaze5719) on X

@betam4x What about next-gen Taichi Aqua? lol

Twitter · Sep 4, 2024, 2:24 PM

[polar valve]

beautiful

[restive ridge]

NO USB A????? MFS THINK THEY APPLE

[granite pollen]

Dongles look horrible

[lone jackal]

whoever made this needs to retire

shouldve kept this secret technique a secret

[polar valve]

i hope you never speak again

[maiden hull]

https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Anker-High-Speed-Transfer-Notebook/dp/B08HZ6PS61

https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Thunderbolt-Converter-MacBook-Samsung/dp/B0BJ8YQ2LM/

[maiden hull]

ASRock apparently will be generous enough to provide usb a adapters as such shown in the Amazon listings in the MB box

It’s on one motherboard tho

Courage.

Or should I say the lack thereof

[nimble ingot]

yeah, realtek cheaper than aquantia if it s realtek

[maiden hull]

https://youtu.be/C9kSJxGjh3Y?si=wwRrlYT99FmebfLB

[grand dragon]

https://x.com/TechPowerUp/status/1838983479800848861

TechPowerUp (@TechPowerUp) on X

AMD Rushing in Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Expect Product Launch Late-October https://t.co/okXAi5cMKw

Twitter · Sep 25, 2024, 4:46 PM

upgrade time soon

[maiden hull]

Oh boy

Looks like that’s how I’ll enter AM5

[grand dragon]

dont be ass pleaseeeee

[pale coral]

agreed

my time to change up am5 x3D

[green lantern]

Wait until Intel drops lunar lake high tdp processors. If the laptops are any indication it's gonna be a big jump

[grand dragon]

are they revealing them in early october?

[green lantern]

No clue tbh

I hope it's soon, nothing announced

I wanna see some leaked Geekbench scores neow

[grand dragon]

nvm

it as arrow lake

not lunar lake

[maiden hull]

Arrow Lake will mean absolutely nothing to me if the platform support is short as hell

[pale coral]

if you had to choose between

CPU: 12900k
RAM: 6000mhz cl32
Motherboard: Z790-v prime AX

and

CPU: 7800x3D
RAM: 6000mhz cl30
Motherboard: Asus ROG strix B650

which one would you guys prefer?

[maiden hull]

This some bundle? What about price?

Sounds like a bundle Micro Center would do

[pale coral]

both $350-$300

tryna haggle after deciding

[maiden hull]

That AM5 platform for sure lol

Never heard of Z790-V Prime AX

[pale coral]

let's say gaming isn't the only focus, still am5?

[pale coral]

asus board

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-z790-v-ax/

[maiden hull]

You’d then be wanting to compare 12900K vs 7800X

Ignoring the 3D cache

[pale coral]

yes if we did that ignore the x3D portion

[maiden hull]

Oh legit like the -P model lol

[pale coral]

7800x vs 12900k which one would you choose personally

[maiden hull]

I still would say 7800X(3D) would be a better option although I’m trying to find productivity benchmarks that would back up or go against this claim

Especially since I have to ignore AMD claiming that EVERY 7000 series processor allegedly beats the 12900K lol

Market fluff

What productivity stuff you thinking of/do atm?

Ok this makes me laugh knowing the hate-AMD bias on Spewerspankbench

The AMD 7000X3D CPUs have the same core architecture as the rest of the 7000 series but they have one group of eight "3D" cores with extra cache. The “3D” cores are priced higher but run at 10% lower clocks. For most real-world tasks performance is comparable to the 7000X variant. Cache sensitive scenarios such as low res. canned game benchmarks with an RTX 4090 ($2,000) benefit at the cost of everything else. Be wary of sponsored reviews with cherry picked games that showcase the wins, ignore frame drops and gloss over the losses. Also watch out for AMD’s army of Neanderthal social media accounts on reddit, forums and youtube, they will be singing their own praises as usual. AMD continue to develop “Advanced Marketing” relationships with select youtubers with the obvious aim of compensating for second tier products with first tier marketing. PC gamers considering a 7000X3D CPU need to work on their critical thinking skills: Influencers are paid handsomely to promote overpriced niche products (X3D, EPYC, Threadripper etc.). Rational gamers have little reason to look further than the $300 13600K which offers comparable real-world gaming and better desktop performance at a fraction of the price. Workstation users (and RTX 4080+ gamers) may find value in higher core CPUs such as the 16-core $400 13700K. Despite offering better performance at lower prices, as long as Intel continues to sample and sponsor marketers that are mostly funded by AMD, they will struggle to win market share.

😭 😭

But but but I got a Ryzen 8840U

[granite pollen]

lmfao average userbenchmarks

[maiden hull]

It’s in my favorite package!

[maiden hull]

Best part is

It’s a literal copy paste from the 5800X3D

The 5800X3D has the same core architecture as the 5800X but it runs at 11% lower base and 4% lower boost clocks. The lower clocks are in exchange for an extra 64MB of cache (96MB up from 32MB) and around 40% more money. For most real-world tasks performance is comparable to the 5800X. Cache sensitive scenarios such as low res. canned game benchmarks with a 3090-Ti ($2,000 USD) benefit at the cost of everything else. Be wary of sponsored reviews with cherry picked games that showcase the wins, conveniently ignore frame drops and gloss over the losses. Also watch out for AMD’s army of Neanderthal social media accounts on reddit, forums and youtube, they will be singing their own praises as usual. Instead of focusing on real-world performance, AMD’s marketers aim to dupe consumers with bankrolled headlines. The same tactics were used with the Radeon 5000 series GPUs. Zen 4 needs to bring substantial IPC improvements for all workloads, rather than overpriced "3D" marketing gimmicks. New PC builders have little reason to look further than the $260 12600K which, at a fraction of the price, offers better all round performance in gaming, desktop and workstation applications. Users with an existing AM4 build should wait just a few more months for better performance at lower prices with Raptor Lake or even Zen 4. The marketers selling expensive “3D” upgrades today will quickly move onto Zen 4 (3D) leaving unfortunate buyers stuck on an overpriced, 6 year old, dead-end, platform.

[granite pollen]

kinda sad seeing this website on top on all search engines.

[maiden hull]

https://www.minisforum.com/page/v3/index.html

Apparently the first AMD based tablet in a Surface Pro form factor

And I have it

Loving it so far

It’s more of a sidegrade for me compared to my previous laptop since I had an i7-1360P laptop but I love this form factor

• I can do 15W charging and still have full performance

My monitor allows 30W while docked and all

[maiden hull]

Here’s a bigger question: Would this build be upgraded later or be set and forget

[pale coral]

for a third pc so not a really big deal

[maiden hull]

Hmm alr

At this point then whatever is cheaper lol

[maiden hull]

Very similar to this https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-z790-p/

If anything it’s the same PCB

https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-z690-p/

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-z790-v-wifi/

Ahh the -V removes that display port

And apparently RAID 0+1???

[maiden hull]

https://x.com/OfficialPCMR/status/1841152497504706574

PCMR (@OfficialPCMR) on X

Next time you think your specs are low remember that they could probably run a bunch of billboards.

Twitter · Oct 1, 2024, 4:25 PM

[main flume]

is this normal for a ryzen 5 7600x cpu to run 85 degrees celsius under 120w load

doesnt throttle and stays at that point

[maiden hull]

Yeah that’s how Zen 4 operates for non X3D

Either 85, 90, 95

Performs as high as it can so long as there’s thermal headroom

[main flume]

i see

thank you

[grand dragon]

what are some good b650 boards?

looking for something relatively cheap (under 180 buckerino)

for 9800x3d

at least 3x m.2 + 4x sata 🙏

[main flume]

i just built with asrock b650 pro rs wifi

was pretty good expreience ( i have noithing to compare it to )

[maiden hull]

speaking of which-

[main flume]

im not updating my bios

[maiden hull]

I require LHM data vs HWiNFO.

[maiden hull]

not that

[main flume]

whats lhm

[maiden hull]

LibreHardwareMonitor

basically a screenshot exactly like this

[grand dragon]

with what cpu?

[maiden hull]

7600X

[grand dragon]

so probably much easier or vrms

[maiden hull]

https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B650M Pro RS WiFi/index.asp

[grand dragon]

im thinking about livemixer and steel legend

but

they are both ugly

[main flume]

OH ITS VERSUS

[grand dragon]

[main flume]

i read as wityh

[maiden hull]

well with but I am adding boards that people have here

since by default you get the generic sensors

[main flume]

which sensor do i show

the mothwerboard?

[maiden hull]

ye

motherboard sensors on both programs

and on LHM go to View -> Show Hidden Sensors

[main flume]

and it woirks everytime

[grand dragon]

@pale coral

🙏

[maiden hull]

HWiNFO64, not HWMonitor

[main flume]

damn

[maiden hull]

HWMonitor is just poopy

[main flume]

AND IT WORKS EVERY TIME

[maiden hull]

Just go on their website and get the portable version

Don’t need scoop

But I digress

[main flume]

too bad i already spent my monthly traffic allowance on this download

thats a whole lot of hardware monitors

[maiden hull]

ty

only difficulty I see here is identifying CPU Fan 2

either being Fan 1 or 5

or 3

[main flume]

btw i used the y splitter thingy on cpu fan

and pwm pst on case fnas

daisy cahinging yes

[maiden hull]

I wouldn't do that on the CPU fan since you don't need to sync

If I were you I'd plug them separate

just for power reasons

If you did that, I would have done it on CPU Fan 2 since that has a water pump header

which just means it has higher amperage

[main flume]

ehy wouldfnt i want to sync

im pretty sure i only have one cpu fan header

may be wrong

[maiden hull]

Well if you want to sync just clone the same fan curve lol

[main flume]

didnt find opt one

[maiden hull]

You have one

just CPU_FAN2

[main flume]

we dont do cusotm curves in this household

[maiden hull]

Then they'll be synced either way

synced is fine but for amperge avoid splitters if you have available headers

[main flume]

im sure theres enough amperage

[maiden hull]

for your current rpm

but either way

I'd avoid the splitter altogether

for just-in-case

[main flume]

okay

let me reboot

and plug in opt

or waterpump wahtever

where is it btw

[maiden hull]

Check this area

[main flume]

thats pretty far away

let me try

ull updte

don

never checked if it spins thoughj

uhh

well the cpu temps dont seem to be higher

probably sucess

no it seem to run 3 degrees hotter on idle

am i tweaking

[maiden hull]

Check the fan RPM

ah wait higher

I mean that's still fine and within variation

I wouldn't worry

[main flume]

alright

[maiden hull]

But thanks for confirming either way

Needed to see which was which

[main flume]

so fan1 is pump

and fan2 is fan

good to know

can you share the custom curves thingy

its really weird now

seems to be louder than ususal

alright found the culprit

by default my fan1 defaulted to silent mode

which isnt the case for pump fan

[maiden hull]

The fan software?

[main flume]

yeA

[maiden hull]

https://getfancontrol.com

This is also why I wanted LHM data

Right now it’s gonna just be Fan #1-7

But in a newer build soon it’ll be properly identified

Fan #3 and #6 are clearly duds

Since they don’t exist

Which is interesting that ASRock did it that way for the SIO chip

But whatever

Won’t matter

[main flume]

the full pc bios is so cool!!!

i used to patch my laptops bios to get access to hidden settings

im doing the fantunung thing right

it finds rhe lowest fan speed

isnt this cool

i dont know why, but it set fan step up 51 s for fan 2

doesnt seem accurate

[pale coral]

sorry for the late ass response

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083TZ68H1?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

3 m.2 2280/22100 slots,
4 pciex16 slots,
6400mhz support I believe on 4 dims if the memory controller on the cpu can even handle it, though 2x sticks 6400 and try pushing the clocks would be more reliable,
and it's $149 USD cause it's on sale.

for your price bracket, and what you want, this the only one

most triple full slot m.2 are around 180+ this the only one within the price bracket with no sacrifices and still meets all the requirements I would want + the 3 m.2 slots u asked for

and if 1gb/s ethernet isn't what you want, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BYBHW4SH?psc=1 here is the 2.5gb/s version

[grand dragon]

i don't live in US so the price will be different, price are a bit different here

[pale coral]

then the 149 option is the way to go cause to eu conversion should still be around the 160 mark

[grand dragon]

it was just a rough estimate so it can be around what I want to pay in Poland

what about livemixer or steel legend?

[pale coral]

eye balling numbers I don't pay attention to economy exchange rates properly

[grand dragon]

livemixer is below that price tag

steel legend would be a good bit more expensive

[pale coral]

the orange, asrock livemixer?

[grand dragon]

yeah

the ugly one

[pale coral]

😭

[grand dragon]

there's also a msi carbon for 200usd

visually it's the most appealing one

[pale coral]

you going for the x3D chip right

[grand dragon]

yes

9800x3d

[maiden hull]

By the way what you should do is use parametric pc part picker and then just select the boards that are competent

See what the cheapest is for your needs and go from there

[pale coral]

not possible

pcpartpicker won't show things availbale in all retailers

[grand dragon]

and i should care about vrms?

[pale coral]

so livermax and carbon wifi b650 dont show up in pc part picker

with his parameteres

[maiden hull]

Yes although the majority of boards aren’t that bad anyways

If they don’t throttle you’re pretty much safe to use the board

It’s mostly the “new” b650 boards that are dirt cheap that suck

[grand dragon]

I'd rather pick something that is a decent choice in that price range

[maiden hull]

At the end of the day if the features you want are present that’s where I’d look

[pale coral]

this is why I asked if you going x3D chip, cause at most 8+2+1 vrm should be enough, compared to what a ryzen 9 9900x or 9950x would require

[grand dragon]

than something that just works

[pale coral]

either way if you plan on using curve optimizer, or custom ppt limits then you should also have more then enough headroom on almost any b650 vrm setup aslong as U dont have less then 8 phase

[pale coral]

all 3 work, the gigabyte I linked, livemixer, and carbon b650

[maiden hull]

If only PcPartPicker could let you filter by VRM phase

[pale coral]

i wish

[maiden hull]

That’s my main gripe with them

Availability and filters

For utter basic filters it works

But the moment you get nitty gritty

Falls apart

[pale coral]

microcenter, employee version of the sight lets you sort vrm

official page, idk, I never use it

[grand dragon]

i know that they will all work, I just want the best possible choice in my price range

so I can still use that board when I will upgrade my cpu next time

[maiden hull]

Well there’s more you should consider than that

[pale coral]

the only difference, visible atleast to me from first glance, if you aren't using a raid setup with you m.2 drives then all 3 won't really have a difference, if power requirement and overhead is what you want livemixer I think has the best vrm

looking and comparing their i/o and plugs atm

[maiden hull]

How many M.2 do you need?
What USB population you intend to have?
Does the board have enough fan headers for your build?

[pale coral]

3 pages skimming between

[maiden hull]

My main gripe with AMD chipsets is how egregious the PCIe lanes are

[pale coral]

tellinq all 3 of the things u just mentioned can be fixed with a hub and expansion card, thats why I initially recommended the gigabyte board aswell 4 full pcie x16 lanes

[pale coral]

true

[maiden hull]

Hubs are just cloners tho

Unless it’s some proprietary garbage or Razer’s

Or OpenFan

The usb population yeah I also use an expansion card

[pale coral]

this is why I will always prefer pcie expansion slot cards for whatever you need

but for the most part all of them seem to have around 10-18 usb ports

if u include the dual usb C

and exluding case usb

[maiden hull]

Imo that should be more than enough on its own

[grand dragon]

3x m2 4x sata like I mentioned earlier, the rest can be whatever

[maiden hull]

Very well

[grand dragon]

I wish that livemixer was purple

like the Intels one

[maiden hull]

Wait why do you need sata

You still using sata SSD or hard drives?

I retired mine long ago

[grand dragon]

yes, 2x hdd 2x ssd

[pale coral]

I have all my m.2 and sata slots fulled with ssd storage

i edit for ppl, have 3D projects I do while are fat projects like a good 100-300gb per project,

[maiden hull]

I can understand sata SSD until you find out that you get the 6 Gbps cap and then can just use 10 Gbps SSD enclosures

But then again

[pale coral]

I might need a motherboard swap aswell cause out of total of 15tb I have only 3 tb of free space left

[maiden hull]

That 10 Gbps cap

[pale coral]

i mean even transfering files from m.2 to m.2 never reach 10gbs

[maiden hull]

True

I’d only say unless you use some 4k camera and record a bunch of shit

[pale coral]

so unless you need real time 4k raw video, or 16k mp4, you wont really notice hickups in drive speeds

[maiden hull]

Can’t exactly say for screen recordings

[pale coral]

your brain went straight to what my brain defaulted to

but yes, playing back my raw footage off a dslr on a ssd hurts

but thats like my specific use case scenario

[maiden hull]

My brain defaults to just how off centered this UEFI logo is

[polar valve]

b650m hdv/m.2, b650 livemixer

[maiden hull]

I’m waiting for my new SSD enclosure to come

The enclosure advertises up to 2 TB but the controller should go up to 5 TB

Except I’m factoring in the fact this enclosure only will allow 2230

So I can probably understand that limitation

Only way you can validate is having a 2280 and hope it detects

Which it should

Doesn’t mean it’ll fit!

[maiden hull]

WARNING!

UGLY BOARD RECOMMENDED! IGNORE THIS USER AT ALL COSTS

[polar valve]

i hope your psu fails

[pale coral]

it's also a microatx which doesnt meet the 3 m.2 2280 requirements he mentioned right below that too

[polar valve]

i just didnt read below

[pale coral]

all good, just mentioning

[polar valve]

opened chat, saw msg, responded 👍

[maiden hull]

You have the observation of my team lead

[main flume]

thank god i cant see it 🙏

[maiden hull]

I have to say in every message read the entire chat before responding

[main flume]

i prefer to scrape it and feed into my ai models

[maiden hull]

I want the Tellinq ai model

I desperately need

[main flume]

do you use auto thing

in fancontrol

[maiden hull]

That’s useful for the cpu fans but be careful with that

It’s basically linear

[main flume]

i see

[maiden hull]

But near load it’ll increase until temps are stable

Not much I can say with AMD non X3D since yk

You have a chip that will peg to as high as it can

Unless someone correct me that’s changed

But this dude hasn’t updated his UEFI

Someone convince him the newer UEFI “fixes” temp problems

Mislead him

And then blow me up later

https://x.com/TheBobPony/status/1845180631744922004 why can’t dongles be usb type c soon?

Bob Pony (@TheBobPony) on X

Can't believe this motherboard is actually REAL:

Twitter · Oct 12, 2024, 7:11 PM

[grand dragon]

disgusting

[grand dragon]

hello Simone

what about steel legends

[maiden hull]

EXCUSE ME

[grand dragon]

can pay a bit more

because it's less ugly than livemixer

still looks awful tho

[maiden hull]

only a matter of time until all 20 Gbps USB type C

ALL of my peripherals can do Type C to Type C

Next up the GPUs

[grand dragon]

it just looks wrong

[maiden hull]

Not used to no Type-A?

Hate the spacing?

[grand dragon]

yes

mmmm

[maiden hull]

Yk I can agree

If only it was physically possible to add like

More ports

But then again

Not all USB C connectors are created equal

I really hope LGA 1851 lasts longer than 3 generations

But knowing Intel

They probably won’t

[polar valve]

probably Ok

[maiden hull]

In a world where motherboards had all their ports be type c and all supported 40 Gbps dp alt and power delivery

Impossible

[round hamlet]

Free Pc tellinq

Give me

[sand geyser]

Nah you need power delivery to power the entire PC

just 3 48v/5a USB-C ports

[maiden hull]

Ah yes

[green lantern]

nah fuck type c we go full wireless!

Wireless power.

Wireless pcie.

Wireless ram.

Just throw the shit in a box, plug in the PSU and it works!!

[granite pollen]

wireless ram

[lapis roost]

what CPU would pair best with a rtx 2080?

amd or intel i dont really care

[velvet isle]

Depends on budget

And games you’re playing

And your mobo and if you’re willing to replace it

Otherwise it’s just the best CPU you can afford that’s supported by your system

[lapis roost]

overwatch 2

[lapis roost]

bottleneck..

[velvet isle]

Depends on the game, resolution, etc

The best cpu will still always be the best cpu

Diminishing returns from a bottleneck though

[lapis roost]

like 700

can go up more but again if i don know what to buy i cant exactly answer

[obsidian lion]

7800x3d

[polar valve]

only a bottleneck till you upgrade gpu

silly silly thing to care about

[pale coral]

7800x3D, B650, 6000 cl 30 ram,

That’s like
410-460 USD
120-180 USD
100-200 USD
For all three parts

[polar valve]

just get any t-create expert kit

all of 'em use m-die (except a couple which are on a-die)

retails for like $80 iirc

[main flume]

hello simon

[restive ridge]

hello zixie

[pale coral]

hello couleur

[maiden hull]

hello mightnight

[lone jackal]

hello telinq

[uneven goblet]

Holy yap

[obsidian lion]

are u not able to read more than a paragraph

i agree he could’ve line broken somewhere but it’s not that bad

[granite pollen]

youve seen the stuff he posts from tiktok right?

[obsidian lion]

yes

[lone jackal]

Average teenager attention span nowadays

[granite pollen]

Not only the teens

[maiden hull]

Maybe not even a whole sentence

[wintry tusk]

😂

[polar valve]

oh my god @maiden hull

it's a slaughter

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-9-285k/

[grand dragon]

intel 🧑‍🍳

[maiden hull]

Womp womp

Keeping my platforms 👍

Time to amend my statement about upgrading

I will not upgrade until LGA 1851 AND AM5 support ENDS

[obsidian lion]

tldr for me, is it good or no

[maiden hull]

Don’t even worry about it lol

[polar valve]

neutral

they made great efficiency gains, but virtually zero performance gains

[restive ridge]

watch 2kliks'

[polar valve]

so 7800x3d is on average still the fastest gaming cpu out

[obsidian lion]

:D

i am glad i bought it

[maiden hull]

Yeah and good thing at the time you did

[restive ridge]

fastjune

[obsidian lion]

yeah arent the prices a bit crazy now

[maiden hull]

Yeah

[obsidian lion]

jesus

i got it for like 350

[maiden hull]

Me personally I’m keeping my 14900K

Now that the stability problems are over

Now my next plan

Lose all my desktop computers in my room

Move them somewhere else

Finally my cousin is coming over to fix some of the outlets that broke

After that I can finally set my desktops back up

[obsidian lion]

whats the consensus on the 9800x3d, ik it hasnt released yet but whats it looking like so far

[maiden hull]

Hard to say

[grand dragon]

yeah

sorry

bad aim

[grand dragon]

yeah

it will change soon tho

9800x3d will be new #1

[maiden hull]

Although that begs the question if 7800X3D users should care

I highly doubt

Honestly yall 7000 series users should probably just hold off any urge until AM5 seems to be dying off

[grand dragon]

nah

[maiden hull]

Unless ofc some new app or game makes the 7800X3D feel like

How do I put this

[obsidian lion]

shill........................

[maiden hull]

As if 7800 needles came out of your system

[grand dragon]

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-official-performance-leak-8-better-at-gaming-15-in-multi-threaded-apps-vs-7800x3d

[maiden hull]

And were all sentient

And game straight to you

[grand dragon]

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-cinebench-r23-leak-shows-all-core-frequency-of-5-6-ghz-with-pbo-enabled
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-spotted-on-geekbench-with-5-3-ghz-clock

[maiden hull]

OFFICIAL performance LEAK!!!!!1!1!1!!

[grand dragon]

it's a bit weird tho

because there are leaks with it overclocked

[maiden hull]

I feel bad for the companies who are making really good efficiency gains just to get bombed with “I DONT CARE ABOUT STUPID EFFICIENCY I WANT MY PERFORMANCE”

Either they’re:

1. not paying their electricity bill
2. electricity bill is super low to not care
3. stupid

[obsidian lion]

maybe hot take but idm minimal performance improvements if the efficiency is a lot better

[maiden hull]

Same here

I think it’s a good take

At least once you start having to pay for your own electricity

Cuz yk uh

Life..?

[obsidian lion]

arent the 50 series cards rumored to be very power hungry

idk i saw a post abt that somewhere

[maiden hull]

From what I’ve heard

Props to NVIDIA for making 40 series pretty efficient tho

Guess time will tell

I really hope more companies go for the efficiency gains over performance

And don’t get overrun by greedy gamers who probably are begging for their parents to pay for everything

[obsidian lion]

cant wait for the 5060 to be a renamed 5020

[maiden hull]

Ah yes that too

“5090??? More like 4075”

[nimble ingot]

they seems to have fixed the clock speed issue with the ccd with the cache and they fixed the multi ccd issue with 3d cache by putting 3d cache in every core ccd

but the most important thing is that 9000 series was designed with 3d cache in mind

[nimble ingot]

no

same thing as 40 series when it was annoucement

« rumored 450w or 600w »

[sand geyser]

there's been an insane power consumption creep in gpus tho

250w used to be flagship gpu territory but now it's just midrange xx70/x700

[main flume]

dude

[polar valve]

no shit sherlock

[polar valve]

that just isn't a hot take

[grand dragon]

why rude

why toxic

:[

[polar valve]

dum dum msg

it's ok tho

i still love u little polish man

[maiden hull]

It’s not wrong… just a given

[maiden hull]

Tell that to the gamers beg for their parents to pay for the electricity bill

[grand dragon]

should i feel offended

[polar valve]

blackwell will likely still be a more efficient arch

just allowed to run at insane power targets

[maiden hull]

Time to buy the 5090 for CheatBreaker Intelligence™️ workloads

CBI

[polar valve]

have you seen the leaked spec differences?

[grand dragon]

simone

[maiden hull]

Been a while

[polar valve]

5080 is more in line with a 5070 %-wise of the 5090

[grand dragon]

are there any nice lian li o11 alternatives

dual chamber

[maiden hull]

Hmm

[polar valve]

5090 is monsterous

[grand dragon]

nzxt h9 flow looks the most tempting now

[maiden hull]

When we getting the 50100

[polar valve]

double legitimately everything on the 5080

[polar valve]

don't know

[maiden hull]

$10,000 GPU

An amazing value

[polar valve]

don't care for cases designed like that

[maiden hull]

Wait no that’s Apple talking

[polar valve]

i know you can't really compare cuda-cores cross-gen

[grand dragon]

[polar valve]

but 5090 is supposedly seeing a roughly 30% jump in count alone compared to 4090

[maiden hull]

Hmm

[obsidian lion]

sometimes he is unable to respond in a constructive manner

but that is okay

[maiden hull]

What about CTS

[obsidian lion]

well cts is just annoying sometimes

and doesnt elaborate

simon is meanie sometimes

[grand dragon]

why is choosing a pc case so hard

[obsidian lion]

fractal cases are awesome

[polar valve]

lancool 207

np

[grand dragon]

ugly

[polar valve]

like u

idiot polish noob

[grand dragon]

u dont have to remind me

[polar valve]

sry

its okay

[polar valve]

maybe fractal north xl?

or the wood variant of lian li a3

[grand dragon]

im think about phanteks nv7 or nzxt h9 flow

ccant find anything that looks as good at those

[polar valve]

:(

[grand dragon]

but ive heard they are not the best

[polar valve]

doesn't matter

not like you're slapping a 14900k & 5090 in there

they'll be sufficient

[grand dragon]

i might have to buy a new aio as well

[polar valve]

so be it

[grand dragon]

so much money...

[polar valve]

nice things don't come free

[grand dragon]

true

[polar valve]

except for your company <3

[grand dragon]

simon do you think going for o11 dynamic evo just to put 420mm aio in it is a good idea

[grand dragon]

🤗

[polar valve]

can't even do 420mm can it?

[grand dragon]

it can

on top

[polar valve]

huh

if you still like how it looks, sure, go ahead

[polar valve]

would fit a nice custom loop if you ever decide to do that

[grand dragon]

too much effort

[obsidian lion]

4070 ti super worth buying or wait for 50 series

[main flume]

buy 4070ti

[lone jackal]

U have a 4070 already I swear
To god

[granite pollen]

i think 4060ti

[lone jackal]

Ship me ur old gpu junie

I’ll pay shipping

[granite pollen]

but yea not worth the upgrade

[lone jackal]

And u get my addy

Good trade

[obsidian lion]

why not

[obsidian lion]

4060ti

[granite pollen]

if the 4060ti does everything you need to an acceptable degree, i think it will be best to just wait for the next gen

[obsidian lion]

if u pay for it

[obsidian lion]

not exactly

i wanna play stuff like silent hill 2 at high graphics without having to use dlss

[main flume]

dont buy 4070ti

[obsidian lion]

why

its quite a big perfomance imrpovment

[polar valve]

just wait for next gen

[maiden hull]

If anything I’d put the 4070 TI non super out of the equation unless you find it at a drastic lower price

[polar valve]

gets you uhbr20 & whatever other improvements it'll bring

[obsidian lion]

im talkin abt getting 4070ti super idk why he is calling it 4070ti

[maiden hull]

Yeah if he’s using that interchangeably that’s incorrect to do so

If he wants to abbrev it it needs to be 4070 TiS

Honestly what sucks about birthdays and holiday presents is that they’re POORLY timed

Unless you can say “can you just delay any gifts until X event please”

[obsidian lion]

id just hate to wait until whenver the 50 series releases only for it be underwhelming and not worth it

[polar valve]

i dont think you quite fathom just how large of a difference there is between 4060ti & 4070tis

its +75% on average

[maiden hull]

I guess the bigger question here is what is your patience level to get more perf

[obsidian lion]

i was trying to play sh2 without dlss because i hate the artifacts and the bluriness but i get such awful fps

[maiden hull]

Now I want to know if anyone has specifically benchmarked the games you want to play and if so where are they

[obsidian lion]

honestly i will jus sy fuck it and get 4070 ti super

thereas always gonna be better stuff anyway

[maiden hull]

Basically what I accepted when I got my 2070S and 3070

[obsidian lion]

is there a specific brand i should look for

i like dual oc bc it’s pretty

idk why i care for looks i don’t even have a glass panel 😭

[maiden hull]

There was one channel I remember seeing that mainly focused on the power limit

Was more of a general analysis instead of clear cut but basically as long as that was fine and cooling was fine, you were usually good

I believe most ADA Lovelace cards are fine but don’t quote me my knowledge is like

2022

[maiden hull]

Wait what

[obsidian lion]

yeah i have the fractal north mesh version

[maiden hull]

Ahh

[obsidian lion]

wtf

how does this thing cool itself

[maiden hull]

Want me to give you a sound hint?

[obsidian lion]

BRRRRRRRRHRHRJRHRHRRHRHHDHDBD

[maiden hull]

Ok yeah you get the gist

[grand dragon]

is it safe to wash aio radiator with regular water?

are they usually covered with a layer that protects them from corrosion?

[nimble ingot]

paint

water is an issue if you dont wash it

[grand dragon]

fuck it

im getting 420mm aio and o11d evo rgb

while downloading a game on steam

[maiden hull]

Welcome to Ryzen workloads

[grand dragon]

welcome to broken aio*

[main flume]

wtf

oh its an aio

[grand dragon]

i think it is its fault

over 3yo + 1 fan is not working properly

bought o11d evo rgb + liquid freezer III 420mm argb + mx-6 + 5x p12 pwm, fuck it

[polar valve]

nobodie care idioyt

[grand dragon]

-30*C

[nimble ingot]

mx6 is crap

[grand dragon]

good enough

[nimble ingot]

no it s not

it dry very fast

[grand dragon]

does it

from what I've seen it lasts quite long

longer than kryonaut

[obsidian lion]

all he does is blabber jus ignore anything he says

[grand dragon]

no I'm curious

I know it's not the best when it comes to performance

i don't care about getting temps lower by 1*C and paying more for the paste tho

[nimble ingot]

yes

it s less of an issue compared to the previous mx paste but still

[grand dragon]

well

if i notice a significant change in temperatures in next months

i still have 6g of it to repaste

[main flume]

how many watts

[main flume]

so its 66 degrees at 91 w

sick

[grand dragon]

i think i will add 3 more fans

at the bottom

as intake

[nimble ingot]

bad mounting ?

[grand dragon]

what

[wanton ether]

lt720 worth for like 110 bucks?

honestly I really think I don't need it performance wise, but I am trying to up the look of my setup slowly but steadily

[maiden hull]

Really only do it if thermals are like critically bad

Otherwise it's a waste of money

[wanton ether]

my biggest issue right now is that my gpu isn't even fully in the pcie slot 😨

the fucking sata cable is blocking it

basically like this

I'll look into a cornered one, just maaaybe it'll help the clearance issue

[wanton ether]

respectable asuka figure

[nimble ingot]

artic liquid freezer 3 is cheaper

[wanton ether]

lt720 looks good tho 😩

[grand dragon]

check galahad ii trinity performance

[nimble ingot]

it s expansive

[grand dragon]

it's in the similar price range as lt720

at least here

[round hamlet]

bruh chill bruh

[grand dragon]

need this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-lFgbzU3LY

[sand geyser]

they just shitting on intel for fun at this point

i hope intel comes back

[pale coral]

14900k+3D-vcache

poof comeback

[grand dragon]

cache would boil

[sand geyser]

i mean, core ultra is a perf regression

it seems like AMD is still not far away from intel with non-X3D parts, so who knows

i hope there will be more competition tho as Intel right now is hardcore fucked

[grand dragon]

mmmm

[maiden hull]

Crazy

[main flume]

what the fuck

[grand dragon]

[tame latch]

bought mine today on amazon

upgrading to a 4080 super and 9800x3d in a t1 from a 3070 ti and i7-12700k in a node 202

very excited

im just gonna throw in an atmos 240 and call it a day

eventually ill upgrade to a custom loop modultra lobo

but until my atmos starts breaking down

we are chill

[grand dragon]

they were in stock?

[tame latch]

for like 20 mins

walmart, newegg, and amazon

had them

[grand dragon]

they restocked it today?

weird

[tame latch]

yup

[grand dragon]

i went from 3070 to 4080 super

and it was quite a jump

[main flume]

congrats

[tame latch]

yeah im gonna be playing overwatch, cs, val, and a few other tac shooters

but mostly for cs and val

it wont matter too much

unless im recording in 240

[grand dragon]

why

lows will be much better

[grand dragon]

update

[maiden hull]

crazy

[grand dragon]

would be more crazy if i bought a mobo that has eCLK...

[maiden hull]

What board do you have currently?

[grand dragon]

x870 tomahawk

[main flume]

1004 avg ???

how is this eve4n possible

[grand dragon]

WR for this cpu is 1290 i believe

6.9ghz cooled with LN2

[main flume]

what do you use for cooling

[grand dragon]

liquid freezer iii 420mm

argb one cuz better stock fans

[maiden hull]

Same cooler here!

[grand dragon]

are you running push pull by any chance?

[maiden hull]

Just push (at the top)

Push pull is usually redundant from my experience

[grand dragon]

probably a 2-4*C difference on high load

it should make less noise tho

[main flume]

ooh i wanted to ge this one

but 360mm i think

[tame latch]

yeah true tbh

[nimble ingot]

alf 2 ?

[nimble ingot]

use presentmon

[grand dragon]

3

[grand dragon]

why