Remote work is a solution to many problems

[grizzled kayak]

I just wonder it is not being pursued as an additional tool when it comes to urban planning, as if people do not need to travel to work every day in the rush hour and it solves a lot of other problems as well.

[upbeat zealot]

Covid did that. It killed a lot of shops where commuters would spend money usually

[grizzled kayak]

Well even with that, the attempt there seems to me halfhearted, plus i wonder whether deliveries for fresh produce can actually make products cheaper

since instead of spoiling on display on the shelf it would be in a storage facility

Plus overall does it not balance out, if shops are forgone and deliveries are proffered that means there is more money directly to the producer with fewer middlemen in the between

[blazing imp]

It would significantly change planning for sure. Instead of huge downtown office districts, work would be spread out more evenly across the city/suburb. The benefit you would have is more local shops and neighborhoods would get more patronage as people work from home. Imagine going to a local coffee shop for some work time instead of to an office downtown.

It would def help reduce traffic.

[blazing imp]

Just be careful how you put this. Covid did a lot of things, killing small businesses is a complex issue that is more than just what is suggested here

I believe it’s the Netherlands that has a huge work from home culture and was not as impacted from transitions caused by covid.

I work from home and prefer it that way. So I’m maybe biased. I know more of my older colleagues want to go back to the office. And as a result, my work is moving to a hybrid approach where you pick how you want work.

[grizzled kayak]

the thing i am only puzzled about, is why companies were not doing it already, since it means less expenses for them, if they need to rent less expensive downtown office space, plus employees would save money on daily transportation, will not need to wake up as early, will not need to use public toilets, potentially have cheaper food since rent for restaurants near offices is higher

Is it just a case of inertia? Can proactive urban planning policies, say giving more tax breaks to companies which make their work remote

[blazing imp]

I think the big issue was fear of loss of productivity. If you work from home you work less, which is not true. You work just as much at home as you work in the office. Statistically this has been shown. But the perception that at home you’re less productive was pushing more companies to not want it

Covid helped to prove otherwise.

[grizzled kayak]

Still even with that, I feel that is is not near enough, my expectations are that office type jobs should become by default remote, rather than the other way around, the change seems to me akin to incandescent vs led bulbs, if government does not step in, people might still be using something that is more expensive because they are just used to it

And in so far as loss of productivity employees still can be easily tracked if they agree to their work computer having monitoring software on it

Just online work, seems a massive change which will bring a lot for urban planning and labor market efficiency, since people would no longer be as bound to a geographical location, so people from poorer areas can more easily get access to higher paying jobs so long as they have the necessary skills for them

[blazing imp]

I agree with the general idea of course. I don’t think our work needs to track us. That is ridiculous.

But government should start to incentivize work from home where applicable. Absolutely

[tired python]

Here in London, working from home was becoming fairly common before Covid. Most people I know did one or two days a week anyway.

Companies aren’t just worried about productivity, but also lack of creativity. One of the big drivers for agglomeration is the mixing of people to create new ideas. Whether this happens via Teams/Zoom is still a bit of an unknown.

Some big businesses are refusing to let staff work from home on this factor alone - Dyson being the main example. Modern offices have been designed with shared/mixing spaces in recent years to try and encourage these ‘casual meetings’. Bloomberg dedicated a whole floor of their London office just for this.

There is a lot of institutional interest in keeping large amounts of commercial/retail space. Many of those buildings are owned by pension firms, as property has always been a good long term investment. If commercial property value crashes, then Governments are concerned they might have to start bailing out some people’s pensions in 10/15 years.

[blazing imp]

Very interesting @tired python. Amazon, Microsoft, Google, and other big tech here in Seattle is trying to use hybrid/work from home as a new benefit to their employees.

My utility is trying to drop the huge expense of real estate from our expenses (since we own so much given our coverage area). Consequentially, we are encouraged to work from home.

[tired python]

Even before the pandemic it was interesting to see how different companies approached home working. My wife has been on a 40/60 split with home and office for about 6 years now. I hope that lots of decisions on commercial property and the need for space isn’t made by planning authorities in a rush now. We may find in a few years people and companies actually prefer non-home working and there is a sudden lack of office space.

[blazing imp]

We shall see. king county department of natural resources and park (the county level resource management/recreation department) has decided to cut their cost by cutting their downtown building space from 4-5 floors to just 2 and have everyone work from home.

If the pattern is this going forward then planning in that way is good. But I’m sure it will differ from place to place

I have a friend in Boston who work is making them go back to the office like 4 days a week at least

[grizzled kayak]

I am rather skeptical at agglomeration factor, it made sense when internet was slow, but seems to me the one of the major reasons why online work is not as effective as it can be, is the general company culture, an idea written through text is not different that through a spoken word, if anything it's more concise, but one unspoken factor can be simply that not everyone can touch type. Zoom I think is a show of that, I do not see how seeing people's faces adds to the creativity and yet often video camera is required.

[tired python]

People have been predicted the decline of the central business district for a while now, but they have largely grown stronger over the last decade or so. I worked as a planner for London’s office district just after the financial crisis and rents and demand rose quicker there than anywhere else. Companies just closed their secondary offices and looked to centralise.

[grizzled kayak]

well yeah, it's just something less effective can go for a while, i just don't see how it is anymore effective, besides just it is

I can see a reason for financial institutions, since if you are doing some potentially illegal activity you do not want it on record

[tired python]

Not sure how the location would change if illegal activity is discovered or not to be honest.

[grizzled kayak]

well just more that there is more person to person chat, rather than through digital resources

but that's more of an edge case, since offices are filled with a lot more than financial institutions

plus most of them are not illegal either

[tired python]

Can’t speak for outside of the UK but companies want to be close to each other still. Home working have been fairly common for the let 10/15 years and it has seen offices change their design, but they still want to be in dedicated office locations. Offices next to residential creates issues with deliveries etc.

[grizzled kayak]

Yeah, I can see it more perhaps due to culture. Even with news organizations people can't even manage to get a half decent microphone within their homes

This issue basically seems to me, incandescent vs LED bulbs on steroids, that if government did not step in, we would perhaps mostly use incandescent bulbs