Lore Idea

[light meteor]

John Wilson, a worker at the Lewis Lumber Company in Verde Beach, and Cassidy Ashland (descendant of the Ashland family that founded the city of Ashland) they both wanted to look for something to fulfill their lives, and they met at the Superior State University. They start a motel in Nicolet Bay to help the community, and also start a real estate company, named Ashland-Wilson Housing Co. to sell houses and cabins around the coast, and also sponsoring the county to build tourist amenities near Couillard.

[reef jacinth]

wow, thats quite a nice story

[molten jungle]

And it makes sense since its the same state. I can beleive something like this happening in real life, and thats the best kind of story

[light meteor]

thanks!

[empty hull]

This is brilliant and an amazing building point for an explanation towards the importance of Nicolet Bay in the state of Superior.

[reef jacinth]

Maybe as the city grew further, the Lewis Lumber Co. decided to move in?

[light meteor]

ooh maybe

[reef jacinth]

So Nicolet Bay's economy would thrive around it's lumber products and Tourism

[light meteor]

yeah itd be a nice reason to build up the city

[reef jacinth]

(and maybe their football team could challenge verde beach's team)

[reef jacinth]

Or what if, in a alternative timeline, oil is suddenly discovered at Nicolet Bay, prompting a sudden influx of people and a huge boost if the economy

[light meteor]

That would be really realistic and great backstory as well!

[light meteor]

where is verde beach?

i was expecting california or florida

[reef jacinth]

I believe a tropical area (he never said specifically where) but it is somehow related to CWC

[light meteor]

ahhh ok

[reef jacinth]

Lol we gotta write Nicolet Bay's origin story

[light meteor]

that would be fun!

[reef jacinth]

I'll write the draft

[light meteor]

ok

[reef jacinth]

Oh god I forgot where CWC was

[light meteor]

State of Superior

[reef jacinth]

Is that the upper peninsula of michigan?

[light meteor]

yes

[reef jacinth]

Oh okok

I was thinking about what if (sorry about my English) Nicolet Bay was a 1800s town that was a rest stop for settlers heading west? @light meteor

[light meteor]

Yeah but i dont think The Nicolet Bay Area is near the Oregon Trail (The path people took to settle west)

[reef jacinth]

🤔

[light meteor]

hmm idk how to explain it

[reef jacinth]

Lol it is hard

[light meteor]

yeah

[reef jacinth]

Especially because I'm not from the US so I don't know much about their history 🤣

[light meteor]

oh yeah lol

those 1800's towns you were thinking of are usually in states such as Kansas, Colorado, Nevada, North and South Dakota, Texas or in that area

[reef jacinth]

Ahh I see

Michigan has oil (irl), and I read that it was discovered in 1920s, so what if it was founded during that period?

[light meteor]

yeah!

[reef jacinth]

Wait I have a great idea

[light meteor]

But I think CPP said it had smth to do with the French Colonization

[reef jacinth]

The town was once prosperous due to the oil, but soon it ran out, and so did the people

Then your part of the story can begin

[light meteor]

ooohhh

thats actually a cool story

[reef jacinth]

The town was abandoned

Then the lewis lumber co worker there, he decided to revive the city but by focusing on wood

[light meteor]

yeah i could see that happening

[reef jacinth]

Wow

Nicolet Bay is a thriving town located in the northern area of the State of Superior, a few hundred kilometers away from Ashland

In the past, when settlers from the east made their way west, some of them set up trading posts and rest stops so that newcomers could make their way more easily.
Nicolet Bay was never one of these towns with early beginnings, it would be founded due to one key resource that would power America for the rest of the century

Oil

In 1929, oil was discovered in Nicolet Bay, prompting people to flock to Nicolet in the thousands, hoping for a better life as the Great Depression kicked in

During the Second World War, the town helped to supply the US Army's oil in their fight against the Germans and Japanese.

However after the war, the unthinkable happened.

The oil ran out.

One by one, settlers began to leave the once prosperous city of 45,000, and floods from the nearby lake destroyed even more homes.

Nicolet Bay, once a city with so much potential, had now been reduced to a shadow of it's former self, with the last settlers leaving by the late 50's

@light meteor

[light meteor]

thats cool!

Actually the town i live in was started by a trader

[reef jacinth]

John saw the potential of the trees and the historical value of the area, so with Cassidy in tow, they decided to try to do the impossible:

They wanted to bring back Nicolet Bay, and restore it to it's former glory

They asked around for investors, but most scoffed at the idea, calling it "impossible" or "idiotic"

Their last chance was the founder of the Lewis Lumber Co himself, and after much convincing, he agreed to set up shop in Nicolet Bay

The town was back in business

[light meteor]

yaaaaaaaay

[reef jacinth]

We now have the official lore

🙂

[light meteor]

well not official until CPP confirms it

[molten jungle]

You two have been busy this morning lol

[reef jacinth]

Lol true

[light meteor]

yup

[tame pendant]

It’s very specifically unclear although I think either California or a fictional island

[reef jacinth]

Like California?

[tame pendant]

Lmao

[reef jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/californiaaa-california-hyped-excited-scream-gif-15610028

[charred hatch]

I am watching today's Nicolet bay episode. At a point in it, CPP says that the forestry industry is owned by the community, and not an individual. I suggest to include the word 'Co-operative' in the forestry industry's name as that is the type of business model suitable for community-based businesses, quiet successful one in an open economy as well. And a quick Google search informs me that cooperative movement has decent history in the Midwestern US, especially primary industries, so it would not be completely out of place as well.
If there's any factual error, pls do correct. I am neither American nor westerner, so hav no historical/social context available to me.
If it does indeed makes some sense, u guys can incorporate that into your own lore ideas as well.

[reef jacinth]

im not american as well, but thanks

[molten jungle]

Co-operative would work. These types of organizations usually come with various protections for the members and their subscriptions

[rancid bridge]

Given Nicolet Bay's RL ties and what CPP has said, I think the most likely story is that Nicolet Bay, and especially Nicolet Island, was a very important gathering place for Native Americans for hundreds of years before Columbus reached the New World and French explorers - Jean Nicolet being the first - reached the Great Lakes. After contact, there would be Jesuit missionaries trying to convert the natives and there would be fur trading posts. So there would be historic locations, including the first church (Ste. Denis?) and the first trading post and fur-trading company (named after owner Jean-Baptiste Charbonneau) headquarters. There would probably also be a French fort - most likely named Fort Louis after the current King of France. Jean Nicolet, after naming the town after his wife, would have also named roads after important people such as Queen Anne, his father Thomas, his mother Marguerite de Lamer and his mentor, Samuel de Champlain. There would also be places given the names used for them by the Ojibwe, or at least as close as the French settlers could get to the correct pronunciation. Later names would be influenced by the British and American soldiers and settlers who came to the area as it changed hands throughout the 18th century.

[rancid bridge]

Co-operative isn't quite right, because the industries aren't owned by the local community, they are owned by the local Ojibwe tribes. The whole Nicolet Bay area was stolen from them by the French (and later British and Americans), so this is a tribal effort to finally get some money out of what they still consider their home. Unlike many places in Michigan, Superior and the rest of the Great Lakes, they are doing it via industry rather than via gambling.

[charred hatch]

I meant community as in the Ojibwe tribe only... They r also a community within the larger local community, if I am not wrong.

[rancid bridge]

Yes, that's certainly true. They have a chance to do very well in the forestry business, which is one of the few industries that works in eastern Superior. Fishing, of course, and there's mining in the western part of the state, but farming is extremely tough because of the short growing season and poor soil. Oil drilling would be highly unpopular in an area that relies so heavily on water-based tourism.

[quiet falcon]

So an issue is many states don't really provide economic opportunities for native people outside of gambling and tourism; with a fresh new state government, I'd think the Ojibwe nations would have been the first groups to advocate for their economic rights and opportunities under the new state, particularly related to traditional fishing and farming areas. Superior (and possibly Jefferson, if we ever have a California/Oregon inspired build) would have a real opportunity to set a precedent for native peoples' rights in the country.

[flat veldt]

I was under the impression that the current industries being created by the Ojibwe would have been made a while before Superior was given statehood

Is that not the case?

[quiet falcon]

I'm not really sure what the timeline is on that, or when Superior was supposed to be given statehood

[reef jacinth]

Unless you want another lore about the history of Superior

[rancid bridge]

How about this?

Superior was given statehood in the 1850s at the behest of anti-slavery forces in Congress. At the time, it was believed that building a state around copper and iron mining in the west and forestry in the east, combined with Great Lakes shipping routes, would create an industrial powerhouse.

The mining industry didn't last nearly as long as expected, but Superior's senators have been very successful in working with their colleagues from Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin to secure large amounts of federal funding to upgrade port facilities on Lakes Superior, Huron and Michigan. The biggest success has been in Superior City ||Duluth, MN and Superior, WI||, but there has also been large industrial development in St. Anne, home of the world-famous King's River Locks.

Meanwhile, Nicolet Bay has become the center of a large water-tourism area. Ferries run to the village of Belleborne* on Nicolet Island from both Couillard in Superior and Turtle Bay on the Michigan side, and the Nicolet Bridge is an attraction on its own.

||*Jean Nicolet was given the title Sieur de Belleborne for his accomplishments.||

[reef jacinth]

so superior was created after the Compromise of 1850?

[quiet falcon]

If the lore was that Superior and Jefferson were given statehood at the same time, then Jefferson would have been a slave state, which doesn't really make sense :/
But it does make sense that Superior statehood and the mining industry would be linked: Michigan and Ohio actually went to war over Toledo in the 1830s. It was extremely silly, and in the end, the state of Michigan was created out of the Northwest Territory, including the upper peninsula, and forced to surrender Toledo. They thought they got the short end of the stick until copper, iron, and gold ore were discovered in the western UP in the decade following.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War
Said mining really entered a downturn during the great depression, with some resurgence during and after WW2, but really by the 60s the industry was on its last legs, the last copper mine closing in the 90s, with a few iron and one nickel mine operating to this day.
Marquette (or whatever it would be named in the Superior cannon) would probably be second to Superior City in terms of its port importance, being a smaller city, but a major point for ore export.

[flat veldt]

Def wouldn’t be the case
Superior was carved out of existing states in a more modern-era
It was added to the Union along with Puerto Rico, D.C., and North California
Phil went over that part of the lore already during the episode where he started to plan out the capital

[rancid bridge]

OK, that makes sense. In a modern setting, Superior would be seen as a political balance to Jefferson and Columbia. Those would both be Democratic states, while Superior would probably tend to vote Republican. That would especially be true if we are in a timeline where mining is still a significant industry. The ore, shipping and timber magnates would have a lot of political power. So the general idea of how it became an industrial power still works, we just have to move statehood back to the 20th (21st?) century.

[rancid bridge]

Yes, all of that. My grandfather was a copper miner before going into the Navy during World War II. I'm guessing the mining industry would be in better shape in this timeline.

I agree about Marquette - I just couldn't think of a name for it. New Bourbon as a matched set with New Orleans?

[reef jacinth]

New Canada

[quiet falcon]

Could be at the same time as Alaska and Hawaii, so the stars on the flag end up in a more even layout 😂
But I also think many of the events of this continuity transcend our understanding of the modern two-party system; for one there's far more transit options in Clearwater County in relation to its size than is funded by most American cities by any party, and I wouldn't even consider a lot of CWC's transit actually to be that well designed!

[reef jacinth]

the public transport planners in superior are better than the rest?

we need a public transport planning university in CWC lol

[quiet falcon]

More like they get more budget per capita, can't compensate for Phil not being able to design a sensible rail network 😂

[reef jacinth]

Lee would be the head of their transportation

[quiet falcon]

Hilariously when I was at MSU (Michigan State University,) the only transit planning programs they had were for roads and highways >.>

Also another interesting note we need to disseminate: we have Superior State University; what becomes of Lake Superior State University, in IRL Sault Ste. Marie???

[reef jacinth]

satellite campus? Maybe for city planning only 😉

[quiet falcon]

I'd assume Northern Michigan University in irl Marquette would be renamed Superior University, and Michigan Tech in Houghton to the Superior Institute of Technology.

[reef jacinth]

maybe NMU would not exist

wait @quiet falcon where would CWC be?

[quiet falcon]

Given Marquette would still be an important city in Superior I'd think it would. Might also call it Superior College, since my dad always did call it a big high school 😄
Could also call Michigan Tech the Superior School of Mines, in the style of the Colorado School of Mines; MTU was originally called the Michigan College of Mines.

[reef jacinth]

ahh

[quiet falcon]

CWC is supposed to be in the western half of the state somewhere, but as Van Buren was a master planned capital, it isn't exactly based off anything. I'm not sure if Ashland was originally inspired by a certain town

[reef jacinth]

i think ashland exists irl

[quiet falcon]

huh you're right. It's on the lake superior coastline in the bit of Wisconsin between Minnesota and Michigan

[rancid bridge]

I never knew that!

[reef jacinth]

is duluth in superior?

[quiet falcon]

yes it's supposed to be

Ithink Dave has the idea that Superior WI and Duluth would be merged into one city with Superior statehood

[rancid bridge]

Duluth and Superior, WI are what I merged into Superior City.

[quiet falcon]

Was that actually established in cannon?

[reef jacinth]

so this would be superior?

[rancid bridge]

No, it is just an idea in this thread. My thinking was there would be no need for separate cities if they were in the same state, although it depends on how big they were by the time of statehood. They could just end up as Superior's Twin Cities.

[rancid bridge]

That's pretty close to what I've been imagining. Maybe a little further south along Lake Michigan on the Wisconsin side? But that's basically it.

[reef jacinth]

so small..

[rancid bridge]

Yes. A lot of water, though.

[reef jacinth]

like this?

[reef jacinth]

but superior is real

[rancid bridge]

Right, but Duluth and Superior could make sense as a bigger city if the Wisconsin-Minnesota border wasn't there.

[reef jacinth]

so what if duluth + superior = van buren?

[reef jacinth]

van buren could be a combination of both?

[rancid bridge]

Sure.

(I haven't seen the Van Buren episodes yet, so I don't know what it might have been based on.)

[quiet falcon]

Given they share a harbour I think it makes a lot of sense, I just wans't sure if it was cannon!

[quiet falcon]

Van Buren was supposed to be a master planned capital, after Superior statehood

[rancid bridge]

Only Phil knows for sure!

[reef jacinth]

i was thinking of making a state rail system

@quiet falcon @rancid bridge what do you think of the extended I 95?

[quiet falcon]

For freight purposes it would make some sense. Freight trains are extremely profitable as you run them empty up a mountain and full down a mountain. It's really not that different from the first use of railways as anything close to what we knew them today; in the 18th and early 19th century, ore trains were hauled up the mountain empty by horses, loaded with ore, and rode down to port by gravity, not even a stationary steam engine was in use yet, but with a special cart for the horses to ride in!

[rancid bridge]

I definitely like the idea of a state rail system, especially to get products to the lake ports.

[rancid bridge]

Among interstate geeks, that's known as the I-98 plan, which would follow the US-2 corridor from Washington to Minnesota. Superior's senators would probably push for it to go through Superior City, Van Buren and along the current M-28 corridor through the Lake Superior port cities before merging with I-75 near the International Bridge.

On the original I-98 plan, I-198 would be a spur going through the Iron Range. I-298 could run from Munising (or whatever it is called in this timeline) south to pick up US-2 into the Nicolet Bay area.

I didn't know the "I-98 plan" was a thing until just now. I just knew an east-west interstate would need an even number and knew it couldn't be I-94 or I-96. I googled "I-98" and was surprised to find out it was something that exists in the minds of interstate geeks.

[rancid bridge]

We had the support of the New York Times in 1858! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_(proposed_U.S._state)

[reef jacinth]

wow

[reef jacinth]

wait @rancid bridge @quiet falcon how many settlements are there in CWC?

[reef jacinth]

Train System for Superior (Coastal regions done, will do inland later)

[rancid bridge]

That's great!

[reef jacinth]

Although I might have missed out CWC settlements

[flat veldt]

There’s a map I proposed in #1022867626071949332 that’s fairly similar to this

[reef jacinth]

🙂
I'll do the interior of the train system tomorrow

[rancid bridge]

I was about to suggest that we combine efforts instead of you working on one set of lore while we're working on something else.

[flat veldt]

Not really working on any specific lore
Just made a map based on what Phil set as requirements

Though if you have any suggestions fee free to shoot it into that thread and I’ll do my best to implement it

[rancid bridge]

We're mainly working on city names and extending I-98 into Michigan.

[flat veldt]

Ye that’s outside my wheelhouse so for sure just drop an overview/proposed of what’s changed into the thread or ping me directly here

[rancid bridge]

(I-98 doesn't exist, but it was proposed to run from Washington to Minnesota along US-2. We're going to extend that to run along the Superior port cities (the current M-28), then branch it off as I-298 to meet US-2. Pretty much the Red Line. @reef jacinth's map.)

[rancid bridge]

Do you know where Van Buren is supposed to be?

[flat veldt]

I believe the consensus was that it’s close to where RL Ashland would be

That and that Ashland county would be the most likely candidate for CWC

[rancid bridge]

That's what I figured. Good to know.

We've got the Iron Range, Superior City, CWC, the Copper Country, the Lake Superior ports going down to the Locks, and then we've got Nicolet Bay. We still don't have a second city with more than 25,000 people, so we'd probably have to push New Bourbon ||Marquette|| and/or St. Anne. ||American Soo||. Coulliard, as well, if Nicolet Island is in Superior. That's a lot of tourism money going across the bay to Michigan.

[quiet falcon]

Sainte Anne sur les Rapides for the Soo?

I also wonder if Superior would have alternate names for cities in Ojibwe...

What is now the Soo was known as Baawitigong (At the cascading rapids) before French colonisation

[rancid bridge]

Yes, I think they would.

Maybe the Bautigone River?

[quiet falcon]

That's an interesting Francoizaton of the Ojibwe word!

[reef jacinth]

Why is everything called iron

[quiet falcon]

because iron mining

[reef jacinth]

[rancid bridge]

Superior includes a city called Mountain Iron and a city called Iron Mountain.

My grandmother was born in Virginia (the one on your orange train line), which is an iron-mining town, then moved to Hancock (purple line) which is copper mining.

[reef jacinth]

ill post it there once im done