Question

[vast tulip]

bro exactly

mc lore, presumably, will continue despite these games cancelling

So at one point or another the lore they gave will just not be relevant anymore

or the data in future games anyway

it's still canon

but they shouldn't be

[coral knot]

yeah but who decides whats canon or not

did mojang explicitly state that MCD and MCL are canon to vanilla lore? nah i dont think i remember them doing that

so, its arbitrary

i personally never thought vanilla was connected to MCD or MCL

same way Storymode isn't connected to vanilla either, just a separate story in a separate game

MCD and MCL are minecraft-adjacent but that doesn't make them canon to vanilla minecraft

this happens all the time in the gaming industry

you can have a franchise which has separate installations which dont connect to each other storywise

i think thats the case with the minecraft franchise too

especially considering that, being made by separate dev teams, vanilla and MCD or vanilla and MCL dont exactly cooperate on the making of lore or the storytelling present in the enviroment as it is with vanilla

as far as we know

so why consider them canon besides wishful thinking that the stuff in MCD could also be in vanilla

or MCL

like

ive played neither MCL or MCD and have no interest in either and dont see why i should just have to accept that they are canon to vanilla minecraft

[vast tulip]

nothing like your exact words, but yes

[vast tulip]

Disc 5

[coral knot]

nah

[vast tulip]

Trial chamber

[coral knot]

maybe the ancient builders' way of training their soldiers

[vast tulip]

in part sure

[coral knot]

i always imagined it was a recording of a warden attack on an ancient city or something

[vast tulip]

thought a specific sound I believe around 30 ish seconds directly references idle 1 (?) of the MCD mob endersent

[coral knot]

the marching feet could be the troops coming up to try and battle the warden as well as the sirens being a warning to evacuate

[coral knot]

maybe just a reference? it doesnt automatically mean MCD is canon to vanilla

1 little splice of music doesnt canonize an entire game to vanilla

[vast tulip]

if some of these are just for funsies you could use that logic on any part of disc 5

and construct literally any story you want from it

[coral knot]

again it still doesnt canonize MCD into vanilla imo

[vast tulip]

it is a reference, I agree. But why it is a reference is important

[coral knot]

its so little that its just not even a precedent to think MCD is canon

[vast tulip]

It doesnt bc that isnt disc 5's job

[coral knot]

because the artist who made the disc thought it'd be a fun way to reference another mojang game?

[vast tulip]

But it is p good evidence that MCD should be taken seriously at min for endersent

[coral knot]

i dont know MCD lore sorry

[vast tulip]

then ur making disc 5 mean nothing imo

[coral knot]

nah

cuz it can just be a vanilla explanation

[vast tulip]

cos again same logic can be applied to even vanilla sounds in it

they're just fun sounds

[coral knot]

yeah but how does one disc canonize MCD to vanilla besides you trying to use one lead to try and make it so you can use MCD lore to fill gaps in vanilla lore

tbh i dont like how descript MCD is even though obv its necessary because its not a sandbox but a dungeon crawler

but like

introducing that descript lore into a very vague on purpose type of game

has results which i find quite underwhelming

just makes the vanilla lore feel reduntant when you got this whole timeline and story for all of this stuff

just

imported from MCD

because of one vague lead

[vast tulip]

A

The evidence for MCd being canon is that it's been said to be

by devs

something like 5 just instills a connection more directly

[coral knot]

by what devs

like

unless mojang says "yeah MCD is canon" then i dont buy it

if some dev tweets "maybe MCD might be canon..." then i dont take that as fact

mainly because it feels like i just have to know MCD lore to be able to access vanilla lore

and quite frankly i do not care whatsoever about MCD or MCL

and dont see why i should have to care about either one to be able to theorize about vanilla lore

when the connections are barely there and MCD and MCL are cancelled, dead games

vanilla already has more than enough to speculate on

[vast tulip]

Shaddup dyno

[coral knot]

look i dunno if this is supposed to convince me to start being interested in dungeons

like

suddenly i must now play and be interested in dungeons to have a pass to theorize about vanilla

but nah

i still dont care

to me vanilla is vanilla

i dont care what other games mojang has made, i just play vanilla

i feel like the really specific lore is taking away from vanilla's ambiguity tbh

you have a theory about the illagers? sike the illagers are already fully fleshed out and have written down storylines about them, too bad, shouldve played dungeons ig

wanna make a theory about endermen? too bad, already fully finished story and origin and everything, shouldve played dungeons bozo

really good way to alienate people from trying to theorize about minecraft's story, when its only properly accessible when theyve played and taken interest in both dungeons and legends

[pearl shore]

Not my fault 🤷‍♂️

It’s just how the devs designed the lore. We go with what the devs have designed and use those sources to piece it together. So it’s either use them and be great accurate, or don’t and not be as much

[thorn arrow]

nah you dont have to play it, just watch the cutscenes on youtube and read the summery of the prequel book on the wiki

[coral knot]

yeah but what if

i dont care

about dungeons lore

i care about vanilla bcs i play it

[thorn arrow]

then you create your own lore

[coral knot]

why should i have to read dungeons lore to be able to theorize about vanilla lore from whats there in vanilla

[thorn arrow]

if you dont care about dungeons lore then you dont care offical canon vanilla lore

or in other words

[coral knot]

thats dumb

really dumb

i dont care about mojang's other products and i dont need you guys selling them to me harder than mojang is trying to already

dont need dungeons pushed down my throat even harder

besides, both dungeons and legends are discontinued so why should they affect whats canon and what isnt

[thorn arrow]

i get you but like whats the different between that and like some sequel to any other game that takes place in the same universe as the previous

[thorn arrow]

they still exist, they just arent being updated

[coral knot]

the fact that i do not care about either product

[pearl shore]

Is The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time not canon because it isn’t officially sold anymore?

[coral knot]

and that minecraft is a sandbox and its sequels are games with singular campaigns and storylines

[pearl shore]

Hell no

[coral knot]

look you can do your lore but for gods sake stop pushing it down my throat

like

[thorn arrow]

so then you dont care about vanilla either?

[pearl shore]

Then don’t theorize about the lore

Quite frankly

[coral knot]

so you now HAVE to play dungeons to play vanilla?

screw that

[pearl shore]

No one said that

[coral knot]

yeah and you HAVE to play dungeons to be able to even dare make a theory about vanilla

[pearl shore]

Not really, but it helps majorly

[thorn arrow]

bro i literally gave a method to know a bit of info without spending any money at all

[coral knot]

helps with what

[coral knot]

i dont wanna play the damn game

i dont care about it

[pearl shore]

Ok

[coral knot]

i dont wanna have to constantly keep hearing about dungeons and legends when i do not care about either

[pearl shore]

Then don’t theorize

You’re gonna hear about them here regardless

[coral knot]

i just wanna make and hear about funky theories on the "lore" of my favorite children's block game

its a game

not the bible

[pearl shore]

You then went to the wrong place

Quit complaining about a culture that you don’t like

Just find one that fits your niche

[coral knot]

you guys act as if the legitimacy of these theories is the same level as deciding which books can and cant go in the bible, it does not have enough weight that you have to try and alienate me out of the community

[thorn arrow]

again whats the difference between this any other game franchise that has lore

[pearl shore]

Then LEAVE

Quit insulting us because YOU don’t like it

[coral knot]

even Retro himself, the guy whose server this is, doesnt include dungeons lore in his deep dives

does he not belong in this community?

[thorn arrow]

tbh i tend to not mention the spin offs when replies to theories that dont use them

for this exact reason

[pearl shore]

Yeah, because his theories originated in a time where those spinoffs didn’t exist

And his theorizing community evolved past him to a great extent

[coral knot]

and if he makes a deep dive where dungeons isnt included? then what, will you pull a coup d'état on him because he isn't fit to be the leader of the community anymore or what

[pearl shore]

So guess what, it ain’t changing because you don’t like it

[coral knot]

god you make it sound so damn serious

[pearl shore]

No one is the leader of the community you doughnut

[thorn arrow]

actually he did include it in the player one

[coral knot]

yeah but this is the RGN discord server

quite literally

RGN's discord server

it is quite literally his community

[pearl shore]

And we don’t treat another theorists word as the word of god

[coral knot]

but you seem to treat me as a heretic who should be burned at the stake for speaking against the church

get over it will you?

[pearl shore]

If you don’t like the community’s theorizing, then leave

No one is keeping you here

[coral knot]

i dont rly care about dungeons or legends because they are spinoffs i have no interest in, i however find it fun to theorize about vanilla's lore

[pearl shore]

Then find somewhere else

[coral knot]

what you are doing is shouting at me to screw off because you dont like that

how is this in any way sensible

[pearl shore]

We aren’t going to throw everything we discovered out because you don’t like dungeons

[coral knot]

that's right, it isnt

[coral knot]

did i say that you goober

did i tell you that you can't make dungeons theories? no

[pearl shore]

I’m telling you to screw off because you want all of us to conform to what you want

[coral knot]

no

you want me to conform to what you do

[pearl shore]

Yeah that’s how it works

[coral knot]

this whole post was, if you bothered to read before shouting, about me wondering why 2 discontinued games are used as basis for vanilla's lore. i got my answer before you came here. all you did is try and a) push dungeons down my throat and b) try and scream me out of the community because i dont like dungeons

when in all honesty

i dont care

this isnt the "minecraft theories discord"

this is RGN's discord

[pearl shore]

Ok?

[coral knot]

im here because i watch his videos and play on his server

[pearl shore]

Then don’t interract with the theorists?

[coral knot]

you're the one acting like a dingus because someone on the internet doesn't conform to your standards

[pearl shore]

We use dungeons and legends. End of story.

[pearl shore]

Because this section of the community has set standards because we want to figure out the lore

If you don’t want to do that, then just don’t interract with us

[thorn arrow]

again i literally try to debunk vanilla-only theories with only vanilla whenever its possible

[coral knot]

you're the one a) shilling a product to someone who has several times stated they don't care for it and b) screaming at them to leave the discord entirely because you decided they aren't fit here anymore

stop being a dingus

[pearl shore]

You are fundamentally whining and complaining we use dungeons and legends

[coral knot]

no

i wasnt angry originally

i was curious

because i didnt really understand why dungeons and legends is used for lore

my question got answered normally

not by you, mind you

what got me angry is you coming in to act like a dingleberry and shill products to me and scream at me that i dont conform

[pearl shore]

I never screamed

[thorn arrow]

huh

[pearl shore]

This is text, you can’t physically scream

[coral knot]

even though, if you bothered to read, i did not insult your oh-so-beloved, all-mighty and ever holy dungeons not even once

but

you dont seem to read

[pearl shore]

I’m not even remotely upset

[coral knot]

you just type angry messages at people when they don't do what you tell them to on the internet

[pearl shore]

Just annoyed that I have to reexplain the same thing for the thousandth time

[coral knot]

"im not even remotely upset" meanwhile kicking and screaming behind their computer that the internet person doesnt conform to their standards

[coral knot]

what? that people have to consume products they dont care about? that this discord is mandatorily dungeon players-only in your opinion?

get over yourself

and maybe consider leaving this discussion because to be entirely honest i genuinely dont care anymore about what you have to say and dont really see a point in this

ill probably delete the discussion because i got my answer

[pearl shore]

I am saying that if you are intentionally excluding dungeons and legends, your theories are not going to be at the same standard we hold other theories.

[coral knot]

and dont need your malding

[coral knot]

here's the funny thing

[pearl shore]

Bro you are so pissed it’s funny 💀

[thorn arrow]

this is like there was a new fnaf game and people used it for the lore and you just didnt use for lore because you "dont care about it"

[coral knot]

i dont care about your standard either

[pearl shore]

Then don’t theorize here.

Try to find a place that is more open to your type of theorising

[thorn arrow]

like this isnt smethignexclusive to minecraft

[coral knot]

theorizing mafia ahh discord

[pearl shore]

Funny thing…

[coral knot]

yeah but minecraft is a sandbox

the whole entire point is doing what you think is the most fun

[pearl shore]

That’s the physical game

[coral knot]

in the game

[thorn arrow]

hence why the offical lore is optional

[coral knot]

hence why my theories dont have to include it

[pearl shore]

But this community in particular wants to find mojangs version of the lore

[coral knot]

no it doesnt?

since when are you the voice for the WHOLE community?

[vast tulip]

exactly why it sucks imo

the alienation is not fun either

[pearl shore]

Mate have you read the theorist chat? Lol

[thorn arrow]

how

[vast tulip]

the simplicity was a fun factor but then they went the fnaf route

[pearl shore]

We all typically use dungeons and legends, along with books

[coral knot]

@vast tulip read through this discussion and watch as this person attempts to scare me off from this discord for like half an hour now

[vast tulip]

oogly

[pearl shore]

How mad are you

[coral knot]

im not mad

im just

[vast tulip]

I'm rad

[coral knot]

annoyed mildly because i just wanted a simple answer

and you're being a dingus

and basically screaming at me because the idea of "people have different preferences" hasnt seemed to get to you yet

[pearl shore]

I am going to say the same thing. If you really don’t want to do the same level of theorizing as the rest of the people that do, then there are plenty of communities that do so

[coral knot]

m8

you dont speak for the community

[vast tulip]

yeah

the issue of hiding your lore in places no one wants to look is well like

no one will look there

[coral knot]

you are not the mouthpiece of the whole entire minecraft theorizing community

stop acting like it

[thorn arrow]

again you techanically dont have to play it 🤓

[pearl shore]

I am a mouthpiece of the fellas here though

Been here for awhile and know how we act

[coral knot]

yeah but i have to spend a large portion of time on dungeons to do so

[pearl shore]

I am talking this place specifically

[coral knot]

nonetheless

[coral knot]

says who?

[vast tulip]

its the same issue that perpetuates a lot of games in that a lot of lore is hidden in dev quotes, much more so than Minecraft's is. Splatoon is a major example

[coral knot]

you?

bollocks to that

[pearl shore]

Myself

[coral knot]

as i said

bollocks

you aren't the community representative

you've decided that you're the smartest person alive and your every word is fact

[pearl shore]

Nor is retro as this point tbh

[pearl shore]

No I haven’t?

[coral knot]

retro has a 1000x more say than you

[pearl shore]

Not really tbh

[coral knot]

because he is literally the owner of this discord server

[pearl shore]

Like I said, it has been awhile since retros old theories matched his communities

[vast tulip]

I think it could be worth it for yall to take a small breather

[coral knot]

he literally made an entire series on minecraft lore and you and your silly little theories on HIS discord are more factual than his series

[thorn arrow]

again he literally used dungeons in one video

[pearl shore]

We evolved past that, expanded, and found more people who think like us

[coral knot]

then you leave

[vast tulip]

god I cant wait for trial chambers theory

[coral knot]

if all of this isnt needed for you

[vast tulip]

I want rezo to cook

[coral knot]

leave

[pearl shore]

It’s a more generalized subcommunity opposed to retros specific

[coral knot]

leave then

how the turns have tabled

now you're the one who should leave

[vast tulip]

Hes fine w it

[coral knot]

if you don't like retro's theories then why do you theorize or gatekeep theories on his discord

[pearl shore]

Mate the table you turned was a freaking stool 💀

[vast tulip]

perfectly content as far as I'm aware

[coral knot]

i just remembered the word for what you're doing, nice

gatekeeping

cool

[pearl shore]

Womp womp

[coral knot]

now stop gatekeeping goober

[vast tulip]

It rly is which is partly why I'm like

[coral knot]

you suck

[vast tulip]

take a breatjer

Both of yas

[pearl shore]

Womp womp

[coral knot]

you must be such a sad person

if you gatekeep people's fun online

[pearl shore]

Projecting much?

[coral knot]

for no reason

you're the one gatekeeping, not me

[thorn arrow]

yeah a 16 minute video

[coral knot]

you're the one trying to ruin other people's fun

[pearl shore]

Having standards -> gatekeeping

[coral knot]

there is no official standard

[pearl shore]

I’m not saying you can’t theorize, but I am saying you are majorly disadvantaged

[coral knot]

you dont get to set the standard

[pearl shore]

We personally have a standard

[coral knot]

because you dont speak for the community

who's we?

you?

just shut up already

[pearl shore]

Bros whole argument is “nuh uh”

[vast tulip]

If you wanna find out the lore MJ has intended, you'll need Dungeons & Legends. That's the standard

[pearl shore]

Are you a representative of the theorizing community?

[coral knot]

bro's whole argument is "waaah this person doesnt like what i like waaaaaah they shouldnt be allowed to be here waaaaaaah"

[pearl shore]

So how do I know your arguments are what everyone else thinks?

[vast tulip]

you can be like retro though and not use Dungeons & Legends but still have theories which try not to scrape directly against em at least

[coral knot]

i dont need them to be what everyone else thinks

[pearl shore]

Me when I say using dungeons and legends makes you more accurate 💀

[coral knot]

i just think its very dumb and quite absurd of you to assume you have the right to stop me from doing anything just because you think it isnt up to the standard you have decided

very self centric too, it would seem

[vast tulip]

you can do what you like Darkman

[coral knot]

no i cannot

this person said i cant

and obviously their word is fact

whatever will i do?

im surely doomed

[vast tulip]

If you dont take Dungeons & Legends seriously though, you probably won't be considered very highly by the community

[coral knot]

who is the community?

this goober?

[vast tulip]

Icluding other servers like MCIA

[pearl shore]

You can still make a theory, but if you want it to have a higher chance of success, then there are better places for you

[coral knot]

in that case the community is quite unpleasant indeed

very salty

apoogize for what

[pearl shore]

Apologize now

You huwt my feewings

[coral knot]

you should apologize for gatekeeping me from having fun

[coral knot]

oh no are you gonna cry about it?

go on

cry

i dont care

cry all you want

its a free world

[pearl shore]

This is hilarious

[vast tulip]

again

take a breather, bo th of you

[pearl shore]

Eh, I’m good

Not really pissed

I am eating a sandwich

[coral knot]

i have stolen your sandwich

you are now doomed

i shall eat it

anyways im closing this thread because this goombus is singlehandedly popping my braincells one by one with his absurd arguments and gatekeeping

[pearl shore]

Ok then, bye bye 😊

[vast tulip]

hillarious*

[pearl shore]

Dangit nyo

[vast tulip]

It's not very nice to make people feel unwelcome, Colonial

[pearl shore]

Never tried to

[pallid rampart]

You can make a theory about vanilla and disregard dungeons. Just make sure you tag your posts to only reference the base game.

[vast tulip]

There is a lot of passive aggressiveness here

[pearl shore]

Never intended to be

[vast tulip]

yea u can do this too @coral knot

[vast tulip]

and a murderer can say he never intended to murder, but he still did. you easily come off as passive aggressive here

[coral knot]

can you close this post

like

disable messaging

[pearl shore]

False equivalence

[vast tulip]

I physically cant no

[pallid rampart]

Rename it to closed?

[coral knot]

this thread is just a place to act like idiots to each other now and im not here for it

i dont want people to argue here

or argue with me

i dont care

[coral knot]

can you get a mod to close the thread

[pearl shore]

I think you can?

[pallid rampart]

#ask-staff

[pearl shore]

Top right corner

[coral knot]

when i do close post it does nothing

messaging is still enabled

i think only admins can close posts ig

dammit

id just ask you not to argue with me here because i genuinely do not care anymore but i doubt that'd have an effect

[pearl shore]

I just tested it

You should be able to do it

Try on mobile

[coral knot]

does not work