CLOSED

[gentle cove]

I think a mod based on this idea might be cool. Maybe you can make another furnace variant out of blackstone which reduces various common resources such as netherrack, diorite, and maybe even endstone to useful resources: tiny, tiny amounts of iron for netherrack, either a % chance per item for a nugget or some new item that can be combined into nuggets, quartz for diorite, etc.

[echo patrol]

You know, basalt is high in iron

[gentle cove]

it is
but I think netherrack is more likely, for a couple reasons: first, like I said, that it's very common and easy to gather, and second, basalt deltas are extremely dangerous for the non-fire-resistant piglins – did you know they're the only nether biome where bastions don't spawn?

also, I just looked it up, and basalt contains only about 15% iron by mass; for all we know, netherrack could have even more

[round iron]

bastions don't spawn in basalt deltas because they are very buggy when interacting with structures

[gentle cove]

sure; that doesn't mean it can't also be because basalt deltas are dangerous

[round iron]

bastions are entirely made with basalt deltas materials, including basalt

[gentle cove]

so whoever built the bastions quarried a bit of stone and left

[echo patrol]

Basalt can also spawn in soul sand valleys

And can be created infinitely like cobblestone. Are piglins known for mechanical knowledge?

[round iron]

but you need ice for that
i don't think there's ice in the nether

[echo patrol]

It is interesting that basalt requires ice and soul sand, but soul sand slowing is also increased by ice.

[long crag]

i think water and ice use to exist in the nether

but with there being no exit as in the bedrock roof. all heat just builds up and made it to what it is now

lava falls from the roofs a lot. those basalt pillars could just be lava that fell from the roof, got cooled by the cool atmosphere, and covered by souls overtime. basalt deltas could be ancient snow biomes like the taiga that got covered in soul and fire as the nether heated up.

[dusty depot]

Not reading that essay. LOL

[echo patrol]

Then why bother responding?

[dusty depot]

Then why question?

[long crag]

because you are saying dumb things

[echo patrol]

Because I took the time to read your message.

[pallid kelp]

or they just stole it from fortresses

[round iron]

but then from where the fortress iron came from

[pallid kelp]

humans built them

[light stag]

I think that the piglings can be left behind humans in the nether and that they had basic gear but got stuck in the nether (maybe bc a ghast broke the portal) and they had to eat mushrooms and nether "food" and turned into piglins like the pigs turned into hoglins.

[pallid kelp]

why do they turn into pigs specifically tho

[light stag]

bc the mushrooms are infected with a sort of virus

[pallid kelp]

but what do mushrooms have to do with pigs

[light stag]

the mushrooms on the blue and red nether biome has virus and like I said maybe some humans got stuck bc a ghast broke the portal and they had to eat the mushrooms and now they turned into piglins

[echo patrol]

There is evidence in legends that piglins without fungus become zombified piglins.

[light stag]

and when the pigs were sent by the ancient builders to make sure the nether was safe they ate mushrooms and got the virus and became the hoglins

[pallid kelp]

for the third time, why did the virus make them turn into creatures that resemble pigs and not some creature that looks nothing like an overworld mob?

[stable yacht]

Piglins kill a player and they trade it with other players

[light stag]

idk who knows? Like why do ask why the virus turned things into piglings and not something else well only destiny knows that's it.

[pallid kelp]

whats "it"?

[stable yacht]

Like gold and other stuff

[jagged wasp]

There may be a large issue with this theory

Netherrack really isn’t made of any real-world substance

Especially iron

It forms through the reaction of soul sand with ghast tears

And as far as I am aware, piglins do not produce iron

In fact, they likely harvested it when they were in the overworld

For what is likely years

[stable yacht]

If you try reaching the end of this rabbit hole, you will be stuck in the same loop

[jagged wasp]

?

[stable yacht]

Means that you will start all over again without even knowing

[jagged wasp]

Yeah, because the piglins didn’t use iron from the getgo?

We see that in legends

Only gold and netherite

Of which the iron was likely used when they were there in the overworld

[gentle cove]

wh– where did that come from

why

????????

I can't think of a single in-game interaction that supports that

where did you get that idea from

genuinely like… what am I not thinking of

[gentle cove]

my theory is assuming that only the main game content is canon (mostly because that's all I play)

[patent shadow]

Alchemy and how the nether arguably represents Nigredo, Albedo and Rubedo

[patent shadow]

And that assumption we know to be wrong thanks to confirmations by the devs

[patent shadow]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17KHyPeOkTJm8vY10o3Gt9LFCsOtXk2oQ9nqg6h22dnI/edit

[patent shadow]

I think here you should find that theory

[gentle cove]

doesn't retro not pay attention to dev statements for lore, since they're sometimes contradictory?

[patent shadow]

To my knwoledge, he dosent pay attention to them because it would break the narrative that he has created with his videos, invalidate his previous theories and make it harder for his audiance and new viewers to get into the topic

Which is why he did not include MCD, Rotai, MCE or MCL in his theories

Even tho all were confirmed to be canon, with MCE and MCL having special situations (MCL is a in universe legend and the things canon in MCE are just stuctures and mobs, which can be canonicaly found in vanilia MC)

[patent shadow]

And no, to my knowledge there are no contradictory dev statements, espacialy when it comes to canonicty

We even know that there are people checking those dev quotes, from 1 time when the author of Rotai said that his newsest novel RotP was canon as well, but then later informed us that Mojang contacted him and informed him that its not the case

[gentle cove]

oh come on, no links?

[patent shadow]

Yeah, you need the Diver role

[gentle cove]

sigh
"How to Think About Minecraft Lore | Deep Dive", 1:54

[patent shadow]

You are long enough on the server to be able to ask for one tho

[gentle cove]

it doesn't sound like that to me

[patent shadow]

He said it on thiss discord in multiple discussions with us

[gentle cove]

still, I think the reasons he gives in this video are compelling

[gentle cove]

also: 3:36-4:39

[patent shadow]

Just watched it

And I wasnt talking about those quotes

I was talking about those on twitter and discord, which came to be from direct engagment with the community through talking with indviduals of them. Not just posting information for the community to read

Also none of the contradictory quotes of MC.net and the youtube channel are about canonicty. All quotes about canonicty do not contradict eachother (until the day comes when a 2nd novel becomes canon)

[patent shadow]

Also a pretty reliable dev seems to be Marc Wattson, which has proclaimed himself as a "MC lore nerd" and has made many seemingly reliable lore related quotes on twitter an discord

[patent shadow]

And then there are the nintendo switch articles, which directly talk about MCDs lore and to my knowledge have never contradicted eachother aswell

[gentle cove]

I don't think retro's point was just that those specific quotes are contradictory, moreso that that fact proves dev statements can't be trusted

[patent shadow]

Also I disagree with RGN that all lore can be found in the main game

Like, how can you find the existance of necromancers without MCD or Rotai ?

[gentle cove]

huh?

[patent shadow]

Or how can you find out that some of the sounds in the ancient city music disc came from a MCD enderman like mob called the endersent, without MCD ?

[jagged wasp]

Dungeons

[patent shadow]

Also MCD, Rotai and etc make it way easier to find out other things

Like yes, you can find out that illagers live in tribes in just vanilia MC, but you need some deep knowledge of history to realise that without you reading how Rotai just outright says it

[gentle cove]

ok
why does that HAVE to be the case? you're talking like the existence of necromancers and that music disc thing are objective facts that prove MCD is canon

[patent shadow]

MCD is canon, because every dev quotes about MCDs canonicty says so

There is no contradiction

[jagged wasp]

In the search for the Mojang version of Minecraft lore, we use mojangs sources.

[gentle cove]

alright
let's agree to disagree, I guess

this argument is going nowhere

[jagged wasp]

How do you agree yo disagree about actual information

[gentle cove]

because I still agree with retro

dev statements can't be trusted

[jagged wasp]

And retro is confirmibly wrong

[patent shadow]

Thiss has even reached the point when some quotes even show signs that the devs are already slightly annoyed by the question "Will/is MCD canon to vanilia MC ?"

Because yk, they already answered it 5 times

[jagged wasp]

The Game theorists and their consequences on theorizing have been a disaster to the human race

[patent shadow]

And it was always yes

[gentle cove]

ohKay then…

seems I touched a nerve

[jagged wasp]

It’s a Ted Kazinsky joke

[patent shadow]

And what about the statement of an author that was contracted by Mojang to make a canon novel ?

That novel being the "Rise of the Arch Illager" (Rotai), which is the prequel to MCD

[patent shadow]

Like, we know that he was involved in making the lore

[jagged wasp]

And Mojang is willing to correct false info being posted

[patent shadow]

And we know what he says is true, because he corrected himself when he said that his 2nd novel "Return of the Piglins" was canon and then got informed by Mojang that its not.

And the fact that anything else he said was not corrected and that he does not lie proves that he is reliable

[patent shadow]

And he said exactly what a dev from MCD said

That Rotai is canon

[jagged wasp]

Mojang wants people to discover the lore

They don’t want people to get false info

[patent shadow]

And that dev from MCD said previously 2 times that MCD is canon

Which follows the 2 statements of Marc Wattson (MCD dev and self procliamed MC lore nerd) that MCD is canon

[patent shadow]

Which makes sense to why there is a necromancer laugh in the recent MC trailer and endersent sounds in the ancient city music disc

So basicaly, we know the answer to the question: "Is MCD canon ?"

And the answer is yes

[patent shadow]

Tbh, its astonishing that, after 5 seperate confirmations, 3 direct indications and 2 indirect indications, its still debated if MCD is canon or not

[patent shadow]

And most importantly, 0 confirmations or any solid indications that MCD is not canon

[pallid kelp]

he left this out of the screenshot of that jeb tweet

[patent shadow]

No I didnt, its the 1st confirmation

[pallid kelp]

he as in RGN

[patent shadow]

Ah

[patent shadow]

And yeah, we literally can see how Jeb is trolling and arguably somewhat confirming it by starting with yes, ending with yes, and overall say more times yes then the one time no thats meant to confuse one (like devs like to do when it comes to lore)

But then Keso literally clarifies with Yes, and yes you should

[gentle cove]

I'm seriously considering just deleting this post
I just wanted to share a simple little theory and next thing I know people are pinging me saying you fool, obviously netherrack is equivalent to rubedo in classical alchemy and therefore contains no iron whatsoever!

(also like… really? that's your undeniable dev confirmation that MCD is canon? jeb "lead dev" bergensten giving a noncommittal answer and then a random dev saying yes? either that's exactly the sort of contradiction retro was talking about in the "how to think about MC lore" video or they're both saying it's canon if you want it to be and not canon if you don't want it to be)

you know what
I'll close it

[pallid kelp]

tbh i tend to want avoid mentioning the spin offs in these kinds of posts

just to be fair

[gentle cove]

oof, closing the post doesn't do what I thought it did

guess I'll delete it then

[pallid kelp]

theres other examples

is just that it contridicts the statement about the devs not being trusted

theres more concrete ones

[patent shadow]

If you think that you just share a simple theory, then you dont seem to understand what a theory is.

A theory is not a story or something like that, but argument based explanation that tried to uncover the truth of something else. And a fundamental part of a theory is that one can be proven wrong by others, because it ensures that only those theories that are able to prove themselfs when critisised are the ones who are accepted as true. And yeah, excluding for example MCD and MCL, which are provenly confirmed to be canon and are even fricking made to be canon will put you at an disadvantage. But thats the consequences of your own actions and no fault of others who now confront you with it, since you decided to not learn the information in it (which can easily be done through youtube videos and the MC wiki, with no need to play the game)

So basicaly, making a theory has 3 steps. Write the theory, publish the theory and acctualy prove the theory. And the reason why proving the theory is the last step, is because only after publishing it will you be confronted with arguments against the theory that you naturaly failed to consider (because, we all have diffrent perspectives so its impossible to consider every single factor).

So yeah, you cant just "share a simple little theory", because theories are fundamentaly designed to not be treated like that.

If you want to share a simple little text, then you can just write a headcanon story and overall do storytelling. A story is not meant to be disproven like a theory. Making stories about MC is even encouraged by the devs, while theories never have been (except those who arent acctualy a theory and just a story falsely refered to as a theory). And then you will not have the issue that others will provide arguments why you are wrong

[patent shadow]

Also, who said that you are a fool ?

[patent shadow]

Also, I said multiple times that there is 5 confirmations that prove it

Stalex25 just pulled out the worst and most unreliable one, because of it having the trolling of jeb, as indicated by the ";)". But evem then its clarified at the end that MCD is canon, so there isnt any contradiction here

[patent shadow]

Also, bro you cant just use another theory to disprove a theory. Because we do not know if your theory is correct

You need to make proper counter arguments instead

[echo patrol]

Does this theory have the dungeons tag or not? I'm on mobile.

[patent shadow]

Issue. Netherrack can not be smelted into iron ingots. And no, the ovens we have in MC are not capable to have 2 end products even according to their design. Because yk, they only have one space and exit from which to put in and take out a ressource, besides the space beneath it which is for fuel

[echo patrol]

This is also tagged headcanon

[patent shadow]

It has the headcanon, other and joke tag

And yeah, I didnt saw it lol

[echo patrol]

You guys aren't meant to debunk it...

[patent shadow]

Yeah, our bad

@gentle cove I apologise for any stress I caused, I did not see the headcanon tag, which was a mistake on my part

(I could argue that I was mislead by ColonialEagle, but nah, I still could have looked up the tag)

[gentle cove]

I changed the tags, because y'all were treating it like a joke
originally, it was just the theory and main game tags
I tried to delete this whole post and prevent people from adding stuff but I guess you can't do that
I would appreciate if you just pretended I was successful in doing so and left me alone now

[echo patrol]

You can close posts I believe

[gentle cove]

I tried that

whenever someone sends a message it reopens

here, I'll do it again – send another message

[gentle cove]

yeah, I clicked that just now

all it does is hide the post I think

[echo patrol]

Try locking it?

[gentle cove]

I don't have that option

[echo patrol]

Weird

Guess we just stop talking here:

[gentle cove]

CLOSED

[stable yacht]

Ok

[patent shadow]

I am sorry that it seemed like we treated it like a joke. Maybe Colonial did, but in my case it was not my intention

[patent shadow]

And now I stop talking aswell

[jagged wasp]

I in fact did not

[pallid kelp]

i used that one bc it contridicted RGN's evidence that dev quotes are unreliable