#Ender Dragon Theory (Rex's Theory)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

old jay
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I think the Ender Dragon is an entity like the HoE, EoN, Foresight, the Wither and etc. The evidence supporting the idea:
-the ender dragon is powerfull enough to close the only exit of the end
-the ender dragon is very powerfull in general
-The ender dragon can be "resurected" by the end crystals that should not have the ability to resurect something. The main compoments of the end crystals are an eye of ender and an ghast tear. The ghast tear has the power to regenerate things and does regenerate the dragons health. While the eyes of ender are used to lead something to a certain thing (they lead you to the strongholds, you can interpretend that they lead you to the end when they are in the portal and you can interpretend that they lead the regeneration beam of the crystal to the dragon). None of the components has the power to resurect. Meaning that the body during the "resurection" is simply regenerated and that the ender dragon can exit without a physical body (like the Wither, HoE, EoN and etc).

@late shore: +when you are resurrecting the dragon you can hear several roars before the body is even created

Edit: the dragon also has basicaly a role like cerberus, but seems to be more powerfull than cerberus

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Ender Dragon Theory (Rex's Theory)

gleaming belfry
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Interesting points

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however what concept would it rule over

old jay
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The end ?

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Like, its basicaly the MC verison of and the end verison Cerberus in a god form

gleaming belfry
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Cerberus aint a god is he?

old jay
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Just that the ender dragon dosent let you out, while cerberus in greek myzjology dosent let you in

gleaming belfry
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but I got an idea actually from that

old jay
gleaming belfry
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Well there is 2 possibilities here

old jay
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The ender dragon is an entity, or the pet of the HoE (like Cerberus and Hades in greek mythology) ?

gleaming belfry
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one is that the dragon is this idea of Pretender God I said on the other channel, which matches with the Cerberus comparison, not a god but close in power and folklore

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the other

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what if The Dragon was the Entity of The Beggining

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While Heart is the Entity of the Void

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and the Dragon became Ender when Beggining went boom

old jay
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I think both are entities of the void

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Just that the ender dragon is specificaly assigned to the end (a dimension corrupted by the void)

gleaming belfry
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at the very least we could agree the dragon is a lesser

old jay
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Yes

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It could rlly be that the ender dragon is some kind of lower or lesswr entity

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But I think its still an entity, because the dragon does follow the charactaristics of an entity

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So basicaly:
HoE: God of the Void
EoN: God of the Night and the Undead
Wither: God of decay/withering
Foresight, Action and Knowledge: Gods of strategic planning or God of observation, God of ??? and God of information
Ender Dragon: Gatekeeper and (lower/lesser) God of the End

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(Entities are basicaly Gods in MC [message for everybody who dosent know])

late shore
old jay
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Also

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I think the dragon egg is simply the remains of the dragons body or an powerfull artifact dropped by it, like the nether star of thr wither

late shore
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oh I once had a theory about the egg

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you see

gleaming belfry
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also looking at these

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there is no way that EoN and Wither are one in the same

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they seek the opposite

late shore
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when the dragon is full of health, the beams from the crystal are still going into the body, so I wondered "where is all that energy going? is not gaining extra health like when you eat a golden apple" then I thought, what if that egg is full of energy, like ridiculously full with it, a nuclear bomb of void energy, a geo weapon that could have been used to bring the collapse of the overworld

gleaming belfry
old jay
gleaming belfry
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One seeks for the end of everything, the other avoids it

old jay
gleaming belfry
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you could then see in a way Wither Skeletons as some sort of ironic punishment

old jay
gleaming belfry
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You grant the status of undead to someone, basically enlongating their life once more

as harbingers of death that decay everything they touch

old jay
gleaming belfry
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it still works regardless of their origin

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cuz they are an undead that acts as an avatar for the wither

old jay
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Yeah, but I dont think its an punishment (if the wither skeletons were once worshippers of the wither when they were alive)

late shore
# old jay Basicaly an artifcat like the nether star

yeah basically, btw, I had also a theory that goes in hand with this one that I didn't put in the Johan doc, when you travel the exit portal of the main island you go to your "spawn point" I had a hard time determinating if that was a random point, if it was linked to the player, or whatever, because lore-wise the route should end somewhere in the overworld, but then I thought, what if the spawn area is where the route ends, when mobs travel the exit portal they end up in that location, but then I wondered "why isn't there any structure then?" and... what if the portal was never activated? what if the plan of the orb was to use that portal when the weapon was done to send it to the overworld into an unknown location, so that no one could stop it, the orb could have tricked Johan to keep that portal always closed for some reason. Then when the dragon dies she activates the portal hoping for the egg to go there.

the issue is, when we defeat the dragon a second time when there is no egg, then it could be the same reason why she opens the gateways, I always view it as some "ok fine you defeated me take this go somewhere else don't bother my island"

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the reason why the player character respawns there by default could be tied to the void angel theory

gleaming belfry
old jay
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But I agree with you on the spwan point and end exit relationship

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Not only is it to what seems to be the end of the "exit bridge" betwen the ow and end, but also the magnetical south pole and a point conected to respwaning

gleaming trout
old jay
gleaming trout
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Damn that's actually pretty compelling

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Now I don't know why you can respawn 👍

old jay
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mission success

old jay
swift zinc
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And be more specific

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Because, without that... I can't really say what would make the ender dragon be an "entity" or not. It's powerful, but, that's not the only part of what being an entity is. And the resurrection I'd argue is a property that makes sense... given the makeup of the dragon's body

old jay
swift zinc
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No, I think it is a property of the dragon that allows it to respawn... but I think that she actually does exist in some form

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I don't think it's that she can exist (and have influence) without a body

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Same for the HOE, come to think of it, since they're both quite similar

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Then... the Ender Dragon may or may not be an entity

old jay
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It has all the charactaristics of an entity:
-its capabel to close the exit of an entire dimension (its powerfull)
-it has a significant role in the game (its the final boss of vanilia MC)
-it can be interpretended as having the end as a theme or the theme of the "ends gatekeeper"
-the evidence I provided supports the idea of the dragon continuing to exit after phyiscal death (meaning its a non physical being)
-the ender dragon is a real being in the MC universe

swift zinc
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I get that... but I'm unsure of point 4

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First of all, do you agree with the voidborn theory?

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The problem would be that under that theory, it's not that the ender dragon can exist without a form, or can resserect with her "extreme power", it's just a property of void creatures

old jay
swift zinc
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well, in that, one of the main ideas is that other void creatures besides the HOE and Jean are able to arise from the void, based on a soul alone

late shore
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and when I say very I mean it.

swift zinc
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okay, but... I hope you still agree with the main meat of the theory, still

late shore
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I mean yes

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the redaction and some minor issues are outdated

tranquil stratus
old jay
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#1035606560388431942

old jay
tranquil stratus
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anwyways where do I find that theory

old jay
old jay
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That the wither cant be an entity because the wither can physicaly exist multiple times

old jay
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Sheet, I wanted to copy my clarification for what is an entity and axidently pressed delete

old jay
old jay
thorny crane
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cool how does it connect with the hoe

old jay
# thorny crane cool how does it connect with the hoe

Well, they are both enteties according to thiss theory. And in Rotai the orb of the nameless one and the HoE are said to be related. We theorise because of that that the orb of the nameless one is also an entity that we call Entity of Night (EoN). So if an ow an ow entity and an void entity are related, then what are 2 void entities ?

old jay
old jay
slate girder
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tbh the nameless one says "In many ways, your staff is a twin to my own"

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i interpreted that as more of a comparison

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not being literal

noble carbon
# old jay (Entities are basicaly Gods in MC [message for everybody who dosent know])

But they cannot be Gods. They can be killed (Vengeful Heart of Ender).

Also, there are only one or two Gods, and perhaps therefore that makes all of the entities lesser Gods.

The entities in the End Poem could be the two greater Gods or two sides of one greater God beyond comprehension.

The entities in MC, MCD, and MCL are basically “Gods” (entities) that can be comprehendable.

old jay
# noble carbon But they cannot be Gods. They can be killed (Vengeful Heart of Ender). Also, th...

-end poem isnt canon and a fanon
-There are multiple mythologies were gods are killable, like norse mythology for example. Also I am not sure if we rlly killed the HoE, ender dragon, wither or EoN. Considering that for example the wither and ender dragon make sounds before their vessels are created, implying that they in some form are still alive and that we just destroyed their vessel which they used
-do you know how many gods there are irl in hinduism ? There definetly can be more then 2
-also, I said "basicaly gods", with that I mean that the basics of a god are the same as the basics of an entity (a very powerfull higher being). I am aware that the entities seem to lack other aspects of a god, like being worshipped

noble carbon
gleaming trout
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also one problem with this whole theory: how are the dragon heads a thing

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they would seem to imply that multiple ender dragons used to exist

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either that or just one ender dragon that was killed over and over for it's head

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which could be possible ig

old jay
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Or the heads are fake

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Replications of the original

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Afterall, the body of the enderdragon disapears after death

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And its probaly not gameplay in thiss case, considering we have a complete animation for it and not just the mob becoming red, fallin down and poof

gleaming trout
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fair

old jay
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The trail ruins ?

gleaming trout
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so the villagers at least know about them

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plus the ocean monument's V is pretty much the same as the one in the host dimension thing

old jay
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Does the existance of legends with dragons and a hero mean that the readers worshipped heros and dragons ?

gleaming trout
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I see your point

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but the hosts are still better off in that regard compared to a lot of other entities

old jay
gleaming trout
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and we haven't seen anyone else create golems

old jay
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Ehm

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We did, if you refer to villagers rn

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Redstone golems were made by the HoE and the squal golems seem to be made by illagers

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Also we know that the player (a human) can build golems

gleaming trout
gleaming trout
old jay
gleaming trout
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I meant the illagers

old jay
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Ik ik

old jay
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We already can see illagers in MCL

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And no, I disagree with idea that illagers seperated from the villagers

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Because the scale is far to great

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Just think about it. Do you rlly think that every single village in the ow is populated by only villagers rn, that every single village in the past was populated by illagers and villagers and that every single village casted out their illager population across the entire fricking ow ?

gleaming trout
old jay
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I see illagers and villagers as 2 races and 1 species, I can explain your why if you want

gleaming trout
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totally agree with that

old jay
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So the "grey skinned villagers" in MCL have to be illagers

gleaming trout
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ye, but they were still part of the same society as villagers at that time

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oh wait I see what you're trying to say

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what I meant by "MCL villagers" is the villages that we see in legends

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which includes illagers

slate girder
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well ,back then, in MCL's world, there wouldnt had been illagers
illagers come from the word "ill-willed villagers"
so basically any hostile villager is a illager
by definition, those "illagers" in MCL are villagers

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because they dont have ill intent

gleaming trout
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makes sense

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honestly it doesn't really matter what you call them

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I can't believe villagers became rascist after legends smh

slate girder
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a villager dont fight or they arent hostile
a illager fight, they can be hostile

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any llager, regardless of skintone, can be either one of that

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also technically, MCL doesnt even have true illagers

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they have Warriors

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and they are fighting for good reasons, not because they are ill-willed

old jay
gleaming trout
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I see where both sides are coming from

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but MCL calls them all villagers

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so take that as you will

old jay
gleaming trout
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I agree more with seal, but I also think that the distinction didn't really exist until after MCL

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they were all just called "villagers" before then

old jay
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I disagree, because it dosent make sense if treated as an world wide event that happend in every village.

First we have to establish what exactly are illagers and villagers. There are 3 claims, from what I have seen. They are 2 cultures and the same species, they are 2 races and the same species or they are 2 seperate species.

They only have 1 biological diffrence (their skin color), so there are enough diffrences to support the claim that they are 2 diffrent species.

In vanilia MC we can see diffrent villager cultures and in MCD we can also see diffrent illager cultures. So they cant be 2 seperate cultures.

The only option left is that they are 2 seperate races, which makes sense considering their small biological diffrence and further seperation into multiple cultures.

Now we can come to the claim of thiss thread and why I disagree with it if seen as a worldwide event.

Its impossible that every single settelment populated by the villagers in the ow has the exact same historical event at some point in their histories, considering the advancements that have been reached by the civilsations of the ow. It also dosent make sense that every village had the same demographics, considering the demographics irl rn and throughout history.

Yes there might have been villages with mixed populations of illagers and villagers, which at some point in time casted out their illager population for diffrent reasons. But there is no way that it would have been in all the villages in the ow. There were definetly already homogenous settelments populated with only villagers or only illagers. And there probaly still are villages with mixed populations, like we see in MCL. And there already were probaly cultures of the illagers and villagers that dont fit the idea of all illagers being outcasts. Like the illagers in gale or the lagers in the MCD junglr temple and ocean monument.

(My opinion on the illagers, villagers and the idea that illagers are all outcasts.)

old jay
gleaming trout
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we don't see any mixed settlements in vanilla MC

old jay
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I mean in game

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Not in lore

gleaming trout
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just change up the textures of some of the villagers

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there's already mods that do something like that

old jay
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Yes, but what about the part of the audience which might use the diffrences for orientation

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Like children

slate girder
# old jay I agree that thiss was basicaly the case in the past, but I think its no longer ...

hmm, i think in current villager society, any villager that fights would be view as a illager, regardless of intent
the illagers of gale do attack by their own hands, which would be view as ill-willed by general villager & human societies, even if it was int their right or not
as for Archie, he was raised in a illager tribe, so he still has old habits, and karl & Salah dodnt help his case
but in the end, i guess i see villagers and illagers in another way than you, so it might be personal reasons at its core for me

slate girder
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i got used to this idea very quickly

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not that bad tbh

16651691_xl.png
late shore
old jay
slate girder
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i feel this fall into too unknown territory

old jay
slate girder
old jay
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It dosent make sense that all the ocean monuments have been made by the lagers. Look at irl, there isnt 1 group that build all the temples in the world and in cases like the pyramids it isnt even the case that all pyramids were build by egyptians

gleaming trout
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especially since they're literally already doing that in legends

old jay
slate girder
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i this case, i think we can just, assume the same backstory to the mcd monuments until new information says otherwise
its a generalization or a simplification, sure, but the alternative is basically ask different backstories to exactly similar structures that we have no idea how dfferent they are

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how can we know this ?

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how can we apply this in theories ?

gleaming trout
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that's how those weird elsagate type channels existed

late shore
# old jay The scale of thiss idea, to be more precise the huge distances between each monu...

you could argue the same about biome themed villages
the huge distances between desert villages all across the known overworld yet they all look the same and are inhabited by the same species and culture

we don't know for sure how far or how many ocean monuments existed lore-wise, the most information we can get from the abyssal monument, coral rise ruins and radiant ravine ruins plus murals, is that around the massive monument there used to be more buildings and other monuments, unknowing how far from the main one they actually were since we don't see any directly, yet they are depicted in the murals

for any vanilla structure one could argue the same thing, how did the same types of structure, with the same possible loot and culture design end up in so many places worldwide far from each other? And one could also always argue that, its a vanilla technical thing and not a lore intended one

still, the abyssal monument is the best scenario we get to uncover the monumental culture and history, we are yet to know if other monuments do in lore exist far far away and if they have no connection to the monumentals

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like, its also not that hard to imagine the impact of one culture worldwide, specially if they live underwater

1200px-Spanish_Empire-World_Map.png
slate girder
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i feel thinking like this is too unnecessary complex for minecraft

old jay
old jay
late shore
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well

slate girder
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again, i think this fall into a information void that will probably never be answered

late shore
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the monumentals we see were one of the most advanced civilizations after piglins, and far as we know there was not much competence to take territory under the sea

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unless poseidon existed

gleaming trout
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Also I just want to point out that the idea of similar events happening on such a massive scale, while unrealistic, isn't thag crazy of an idea

old jay
# late shore you could argue the same about biome themed villages the huge distances between ...

Yes, I litterly argue that for the biome specific villages. I argue that the structures and groups that we seen in game in vanilia MC are an simplified representation of multiple cultures (multiple savan village cultures, multiple mansion cultures, multiple jungle village cultures and etc). We know already that MC has things in game that represent multiple things in lore, like bone meal in game representing bone meal and fertilizer made from an composter in lore

old jay
gleaming trout
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Despite there being 255 galaxies

old jay
gleaming trout
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The only other one is the player and I think like one weird race that only exists at one spot

old jay
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(Excluding humans)

old jay
late shore
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wasn't no man sky like a bad game or something?

gleaming trout
old jay
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Wait, does no mans sky even have lore ?

gleaming trout
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Yes

old jay
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Then it explains why there are only 4 across the universe, the universe reached a point where almost all sentient life was abel to transform itself into 1 of the 3 dominant species

gleaming trout
old jay
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But I dont think that comparing no mans sky with MC is possible, when it comes to the aspect that we are discussing rn. Considering their extremly huge technological gap

gleaming trout
old jay
gleaming trout
old jay
gleaming trout
old jay
old jay
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Also, I apologize if such things are already confirmed to be true or not true. I havent gotten into no man sky lore at all, so I can only reach conclusions from the information that you provide rn and the general knowldge that I already have

gleaming trout
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Ye I have no idea how long the lore timeline is

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Also it is canonically a simulation, so there is that

old jay
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Bro

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Couldnt you just have told that earlier....

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Ofc 3 species dominating an entire universe is possible in a simulation lol

gleaming trout
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I forgor

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Sorry for accidentally making everything so off track that we started talking about the lore of a completely different game 💀

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the point I was trying to make is that the idea of lore being applied on unrealistically large scales isn't out of the question

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and I think I killed the channel again lmao

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@slate girder @old jay I stopped talking about nms lore if you want to come back and argue about villagers or something

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I feel like that specifically should be moved to a new thread though

old jay
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Thiss is my thread, so I allow it

old jay
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(Or if the lore has bad writting, which I dont like to assume, at least rn)

chilly vale
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okay but what about the people who are here to talk about, you kjnow, the enderdragon

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if we arent gonna move for convincence at least for organization

old jay
chilly vale
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I have an old thread about illagers acutally

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it was like yelling into the void

thorny crane
old jay
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.

old jay
covert prawn
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I don’t think it would make sense that the Dragon is a entity

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Possibly another vessel for HoE though

old jay
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.

old jay
old jay
arctic mural
old jay
arctic mural
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is that also from MC dungeons?

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Ive never played dungeons or legends

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perhaps I should give it a try

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also, do you consider dungeons and legends to be on the same universe as og minecraft? I always saw them as parallel universes

old jay
arctic mural
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thanks so much

old jay
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But in MCD and vanilia MC there is evidence for some of MCLs events having acctualy happend in the history of MC

arctic mural
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I want to get into mc lore stuff and being able to know what is a source of "lore"

old jay
arctic mural
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I found that few minutes ago

old jay
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Its currently the only canon book

arctic mural
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oh I see

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so everything else is not canon

old jay
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Yeah, books like the Mobbiestiary and other MC novels arent canon

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Also other games like MC story mode arent canon

arctic mural
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is there other sources of lore?

old jay
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MC Earth maybe, but I am not sure about that

arctic mural
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cause me and my friends sometimes make discussions, where I insist there is lore in mc, even if the devs didnt write most of it

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they desperately want it to be written by the devs

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otherwise its headcanon, everything

old jay
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Well yeah

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They are right

arctic mural
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like we had 2 debates, one was that I said the end is meant to be a void-like dimension with barely much life, the other was that soulsand and skulk have a connection, where they said "they dont"

old jay
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Agnes even confirmed that there is an official lore, but they wont reveal all of it so others make their own stories based on the revealed lore. But making stories is storytelling, not theorising. Theorising is trying to find out the official lore

arctic mural
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where can I find that clip/post from Agnes?

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cause they tell me there is 0 lore

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and I tell them that there is

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The thing is, I never dedicated myself to archiving all that stuff, I never imagined I would have to debate about them

old jay
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Forgot which year it was

arctic mural
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I see, thanks

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Yeah im basically trying to find any sources that are documented about mc lore, because my debate with my friends had reached braindead peaks

old jay
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Its confirmed that there is a space between dimensions called the void and an article about the end in MCD confirms that the end is located in the void

arctic mural
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wow, can I have it?

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or where can I find it

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I dont own MCD

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it would be very helpful and I would be forever grateful, also Im trying to find that clip with agnes from mc live as we speak

old jay
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@high spoke I need the echoing void end wilds article

high spoke
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Hello

old jay
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I also need the voidcaller description

high spoke
old jay
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And maybe the quote from dinnerbone

arctic mural
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🙏

high spoke
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"The End Wilds is the first other-worldly mission you face after making the trip through the End Portal. It is set out on a series of broken-up landmasses floating in – surprise, surprise – the Void!"

high spoke
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@arctic mural Here are the sources Seal mentioned

arctic mural
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thanks bro

high spoke
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No problem

old jay
# high spoke

@arctic mural the weapon is called Voidcaller, so the place that is described as being between this world and the next has to be the void

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Also there is a quote from dinnerbone that there is a space between dimensions and that the endermen comw from it

arctic mural
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omfg, my message got deleted

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hey, i found the video btw, but I probably have no link perms?

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....

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wtf

arctic mural