grand cradle
This is an idea for a CCG that makes use of the Beyond assets (as well as Illuvials). Because the game is 'out of universe' my objective was to create something that is fun and a little whacky, something a bit different to the more serious tone of our other games. Heaps more details in the document.
Remember this idea is just a pitch. It has no official endorsement from council or the founders. It would need to go through voting before it would ever be on the radar for development.
I've got to head out, but will happily answer questions when I get back in about 4 hours.
naive coyote
I've got to head out, but will happily answer questions when I get back in about...
But…why male models?
grand cradle
Zoolander references are appreciated in this thread 😛
trim prairie
Zoolander references are appreciated in this thread 😛
Ambi-turners only allowed?
ionic forge
Yayy, freedom!!
fallen cove
Nice one, ser! It is different but I can totally see the team knocking this out of the park visually with ridiculous moves.
As I was reading I was gonna ask how do you prevent whales with high-power (and expensive) accessories winning every game but by the end you covered this as well with the different game modes.
flint swift
This proposal needs to be at least three times bigger
pulsar shoal
I remember at the start on Beyond @royal osprey said Beyond Leaderboard Rankings will not only be determined by your collection points but the Beyond Game will affect your Beyond Rankings as well. So My question is If implemented how will this CCG affect Beyond Leaderboard rankings?
unreal steeple
Proposal for ants?
Moisture is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty
chrome hare
@ionic forge @clever sequoia and all the people who wanted to see this lol
forest lion
LOVE the idea, so in short, Illuvial is the "Champion" card, Illuvitar with accessory is "Attack" card. The game will also pushed the Bonding process, which will make non-bond rarer.
grand cradle
I think we found the secret to making sure people don't treat the pitch too seriously like its 'locked in' ... Zoolander!
flint scaffold
I'm not seeing the apeal of the setting. Some people will just not spend the time to dig into it. I don't think the game needs to be much different than other card games. Just add the great visuals and some connection to illuvitars. Could be as simple as alternative card art. Instead of using Atlas illuvial, you can use holo brawling atlas illuvitar.
illuvium is aiming at 90s nostalgia. We're doing pokemon. I always thought we're just gonna do yugioh for a CCG.
3D illuvials coming out of the cards, similar to the show. We already have the 3D assets. We should put them to good use.
I know everyone who watched that show wanted to be able to play in that setting. Maybe add a VR support or AR and we're talking.
And sorry that I have to go against your idea here, but if something like this gets approved we're not getting the dev time to do another CCG.
grand cradle
Setting: Illuvitars are pretty out there (gold chains and meme glasses), they don't really make sense in a serious setting. It is definitely not going to be for everyone, but I think most people who can't get on board with the setting can kind of just ignore it and think of it like combat.
Make game mechanics like other games: its not as easy as you think to make the Illuvitars make sense in the context of a game. Why accessories, why would I bond, why would I pursue specific things, etc. How to we not just favour whales to the exclusion of all else given power == expense.
Despite the setting the mechanics have similarity to many other games, it started out much more like UFS CCG but after talking through the game with Aaron and running many games in my head it needed to be adapted to make the things we have make sense.
If your point is you don't want a Beyond/Illuvitars CCG and you want a serious battle CCG using other assets... fair enough. My mission here was to create something leveraging Beyond assets.
(I can see you typing but I have to head to some meetings, will try to remember to read when I'm free)
flint scaffold
In other CCGs the premium cards / alternative card art cards have a visual distinction. For example, Gods Unchained's premium cards just have a different border. In phisical games we have different kinds of finishes or different arts. But what's not changing is cards stats/effects based on that.
What I'm suggesting is that illuvials and illuvitars are used interchangeably in deck building. Where illuvitars will be like alternative/promo editions.
Here's an image showing a card and a 3D render on top of it. The card below the 3D model can be illuvial/illuvitar. And they'll be distinguishable.
There is no need for accessories to provide any gameplay advantages. They'll allow players to express themselves. Imagine a whole deck of illuvitars with clown noses. Or a deck in which all backgrounds are green. People will not be shoved into a specific accessory for gameplay advantages. And if those accessories get nerfed/buffer for whatever reason, to make them useless.
We're not doing more than 1 CCG in the illuvium universe most likely, and I think it'll be better to go towards a larger addressable market.
And to not just say that I don't like this. Let me suggest some mechanics we can do.
Burning cards give different colored mana based on the illuvial affinity.
Illuvials add signature cards to the deck when you put them in. Example. Atlas adds "Bubble" card in the deck.
Allow players to show land they own as their part of the battle board.
Sorry I'm all over the place here and thanks for reading. I've had so much ideas about a CCG(I've played like 20-30 of those for thousands of hours) and I think we can just do more with the genre that what was suggested.
grand cradle
I don't think bonding will be widespread without it being an advantage. Most people aren't going to stick a clown nose on a $10 card and make it worth $5 just to have a clown nose deck.
However if there is an aggro clown nose meta where a really powerful deck leveraging several suppprt cards that boost clown noses it's far more likely they will bond.
It's probably not going to lead a scourge of clown nose Rhamphyres... but it will get a lot of bonding going on.
Encouraging bonding was a prime objective here.
I do agree that this will push another CCG far down the road, but from what I'm seeing there's not a lot of desire for a CCG ... tying it to Beyond where it really makes sense might be your only chance!
One last point, by way of example. One if my favourite games of all time is Princess Maker 2, from a theme perspective this makes no sense... but the game mechanics are just ridiculously good, you quickly forget about the theme and become engrossed in the game.
I believe these mechanics are really good too, as good as other competitve CCGs... if you enjoy CCGs I think you will very quickly forget about the theme.
Added bonus if you don't like CCGs... you can just have a laugh.
Anyway enough defending the idea, I'll (try to) stick to answeing questions about mechanics and the like from now.
rough sun
After such a long wait for this I feel a bit let down and was expecting something different. Why would we go for a game like this when a partner of ours in the same ecosystem already has such a similar game (Gods Unchained). Do we really want to compete with their playerbase?
halcyon ivy
Setting: Illuvitars are pretty out there (gold chains and meme glasses), they do...
People in web 3 love meme and funny this will be a success for sure!
Thank you for putting so much effort in this idea.
winged tendon
After such a long wait for this I feel a bit let down and was expecting somethin...
Most, if not all of our games will have an already existing game outside of our ecosystem. We want to have as many genres as possible covered to enhance the value of existing ownership e.g. Illuvials, Weapons, Suits.
rough sun
Most, if not all of our games will have an already existing game outside of our ...
I said inside our ecosystem with one of our biggest partners
winged tendon
I said inside our ecosystem with one of our biggest partners
But Gods Unchained is not in our ecosystem or is it?
rough sun
But Gods Unchained is not in our ecosystem or is it?
they're from the IMX team...
I don't think this is the game Beyond deserves just my opinion
winged tendon
I mean you can not use Illuvitars in Gods Unchained. IMX really is just a marketplace and chain optimized for gaming. I don't see Illuvium gaining much from other games on the IMX chain.
IMX makes it look like they are the base metaverse platform, but there is no standard for interoperable assets etc.
rough sun
I mean you can not use Illuvitars in Gods Unchained. IMX really is just a market...
I never mentioned interoperable assets with them... I just said we would dwindle both playerbases making such a similar game to theirs
rough sun
Anyway even though I'm not very fond of the idea I would like to say I appreciate the love and detail put into this game pitch @grand cradle
unkempt forge
I personally dont like this idea. I'm a big Beyond supporter and love the art. I bought in because I liked the art and also liked the idea giving my rewards for finishing collections (even if they are just soul bound). My concern is that if this game is made, everyone will think that Beyond is not a collection again anymore and tcg. if the tcg is not popular than I think this will really have a huge effect on Beyond as a whole. I personally wouldn't want to use any resources on building out this game over any other game, even if they say the team is small and wouldn't take away from anything else.
wide smelt
I do appreciate this giving illuvitars more utility also I love that this game does not take itself too seriously. If the game did not drastically delay the second wave of games I would be cautiously optimistic for its potential success. Selfishly I would much rather have a tower defense or RTS style game using illuvials and ILV-0 assets.
wide smelt
But…why male models?
ionic forge
I personally dont like this idea. I'm a big Beyond supporter and love the art. ...
Pokemon Trading Cards are both collectible and a game. Both sides are equally filled with enthusiasts. I absolutely think the same will be here with Beyond. You'd have the purists who wanna keep clean/rare Illuvitars... and you'd have the gamers that wanna utilize their Illuvitars... ANNND both! The collector/gamer 😎
A CCG would also help ignite the Beyond market cuz frankly... it needs it. Can't have the same ol handful of people each wave... need new people to come in. There's not much incentive for new people to come into Beyond. But with a CCG that would def incentivize.
A lot of the assets already exist... so dev time would be less that creating a whole new game from scratch.
I was a lil skeptical of the whole Fit thang at first... but as I keep thinking about it, think it would be super fun. The setup reminds me of Pokemon TCG but with it's own mechanics and Meta. I like that it would be a Fun Lighthearted way to demoralize opponents XD
unkempt forge
Pokemon Trading Cards are both collectible and a game. Both sides are equally fi...
Yes if the original concept was made with both in mind it's a great idea and more likely to succeed. In my opinion just to make a beyond a tcg just to try and give it more utility is not the right thing to do. Kieran has said for many years why Illuvium will be successful is that the crypto elements and the whole game as whole was very thought out from the start. There was a lot of games that were already making a game and then said let's throw crypto in it and it's been a complete mess. beyond initially was never thought of as a tcg and because of this the likely hood of this being a success is very unlikely in my opinion.
If Illuvium is to do a tcg, let's try to do it right and not try to do a make shift one.
Also in a marketing perspective you will want the next Illuvium game to launch to really show how powerful the interoperability is within the Illuvium ecosystem. So I hope if this does gets approved it will at least not be the next game launched within the ecosystem.
grand cradle
Should we do something to promote bonding?
I'm a strong yes on this. Leaderboards aren't enough as its too hard for the average person to compete with the whales. Albums aren't enough as its hard to justify losing so much value by bonding in order to fill out the albums. We need a way to create large scale incentivisation for all kinds of bonding and all kinds of combinations (not just bonding only 'junk' or having a few whales bonding the top stuff to win on leaderboard).
Should we do something to increase Utility of Beyond?
Profile pics, leaderboards, and albums don't seem to be enough. I'm a strong yes here, we definitely should do 'something'.
Should that something be a game?
This one is a little trickier, I think yes, we are a games company after all.
If we build game should it be a CCG?
I'm like 99.9% a yes on this one. It fits far more naturally than anything else.
If we do a CCG should we make it a deep competitive CCG, or something really simple?
A super simple, mostly luck based game could add utility... but I don't think a simple game can make use of accessories and bonding. A tougher decision but I think encouraging bonding makes a more complex game 'win'.
Is SotF the CCG we should build for Beyond?
Assuming we did want to build a Beyond CCG, I think the design of SotF is pretty darn good. It took some thinking, but when the design finally 'clicked' all the problems disappeared and it just fell on to the page. This is typically a sign that something will work, but that is no guarantee 🤷
If we build this game should this game be next?
I don't think it should be 'next' as in the first thing we announce post beta, we probably want something that will make a big splash as the first game of the next wave. But if we are going to do it I do think it should be in the next wave of games, maybe the third one announced for example.
Does this prevent another CCG being made?
Long term no, short term probably yes. I think the point that SotF blocks another CCG with a more traditional appeal from being made (or at least delays it for some time) is a good argument and worthy of discussion. My counter argument for all the CCG lovers out there is there isn't much community drive for a CCG, this might be your only change to get an Illuvium CCG in the next few years.
I think its worth noting that good game mechanics can quickly transcend the 'theme' and also there may be some merit in having a game that isn't just the same battle mechanic and theme seen in hundreds of other CCGs.
pulsar shoal
"I don't think it should be 'next' as in the first thing we announce post beta, we probably want something that will make a big splash as the first game of the next wave. But if we are going to do it I do think it should be in the next wave of games, maybe the third one announced for example." Would it be possible to build say a Kart racing game and this game at the same time? If so I think its a no brainer to get 2 games( two genres) out in a shorter time period than say building one more complex game that would take the same amount of time
either way I am here for the ride 😁
proud rose
I Really like the idea. I would rather a FP or RTS but as it says. The assets are there and should be straight forward.
The accessories buffs are a cool idea. I don't need a new PfP, the leaderboard are unatonable and the albums are some what pointless so something like this would really bring a new dimensions to why buy and bond accessories.
I think we all agree it shouldn't be the next released games but knowing that it will be a round of games makes me very bullish and think that this should be in there. This will hopefully boost wave three sales as well as create a new game in a genre. I think the more genres illuvium can do the better.
pulsar shoal
I Really like the idea. I would rather a FP or RTS but as it says. The assets ar...
Some what pointless for now, Imagine if having a completed Polar Bear line increases your chance of finding a Holo Jotun in the Overworld 👀
proud rose
Some what pointless for now, Imagine if having a completed Polar Bear line incre...
Sorry I might be confused but I don't think this is what is being proposed...
pulsar shoal
no sorry its off topic, I just couldent help myself to throw the idea out there 😁
grand cradle
"I don't think it should be 'next' as in the first thing we announce post beta, ...
Yes I believe the working assumption is we will still build several games at a time, however there will probably be one 'flagship' game that gets announced first.
This is just my thoughts, nothing set in stone.
pulsar shoal
Yes I believe the working assumption is we will still build several games at a t...
I ask this yesterday, "I remember at the start on Beyond Kieran said Beyond Leaderboard Rankings will not only be determined by your collection points but the Beyond Game will affect your Beyond Rankings as well. So My question is If implemented how will this CCG affect Beyond Leaderboard rankings?" any idea on this? thanks
grand cradle
I think it's possible maybe even probable ... but also something that can be decided later.
pulsar shoal
I like the game design btw great work!
flint scaffold
A slight twist on the idea that seems to fit the crypto ethos might be doing "Flexes" rather than "Fits". Illuvitars also have some flex accessories.
A game in which you try to flex the hardest 😄
I think however the board is overwhelming. It might be hard or clunky to fit it on a mobile screen. I'd look into marvel snap's design. It's great on mobile.
rough sun
Simple question: Why would I play SotF instead of playing hearthstone, magic the gathering or even gods unchained?
flint scaffold
Simple question: Why would I play SotF instead of playing hearthstone, magic the...
Don't hate on GU, I play it over both of those 🙂 And I own a MTG collection and have all heroes golden on hearthstone. And my answer to your question is a simple one. Ownership but made easy. I don't have to try and find players in real life to play MTG. And it's not like I spend 5 years of my life and have nothing in the end.
rough sun
Don't hate on GU, I play it over both of those 🙂 And I own a MTG collection and...
oh I'm not hating on GU at all that's why my 1st comment here was why would we compete with their playerbase when we share the same chain
rough sun
Don't hate on GU, I play it over both of those 🙂 And I own a MTG collection and...
GU has ownership has well so...
ionic forge
Simple question: Why would I play SotF instead of playing hearthstone, magic the...
I decide to make a board game... I go to the store and see a bunch of board games then say, 'I change my mind. There are already board games made'. Nahhhhhh, I go ahead and make the board game if the idea is good and will integrate with my current set of products well. We don't tiptoe... and I question if this will actually be competition for those games since it's theme is VERRRRRY different.
I would personally play SotF over those games because I can't stand their aesthetic. The three games u mentioned all have similar themes whereas SotF is in the Illuvium realm... which is it's own thang altogether.
rough sun
I decide to make a board game... I go to the store and see a bunch of board game...
uh... If you're launching a product I would say you should always do a market analysis study but who am I
ionic forge
uh... If you're launching a product I would say you should always do a market an...
Fair. And a good idea to do.
How do I say... if we assign a tier list for games: Clearly OW - Arena - Zero are primary. Beyond is secondary. SotF is meant to be a fun, lighthearted game that compliments Beyond and all it's assets. So simple that I bet someone in the community could program a mock test version to see if it's actually fun to play since it's a card game.
I've wanted to see Beyond be a card game before it even launched. That's what drove me to ape in in the first place.
But sure, do all the due diligence, makes sense.
rough sun
Fair. And a good idea to do.
How do I say... if we assign a tier list for games...
yes I agree but there are more styles of card games. I don't think we should rush into this just because we have a game pitch.
ionic forge
yes I agree but there are more styles of card games. I don't think we should rus...
For sure... and there's no rushing. This shit ain't gonna be made for prob another year or more XD
And I'd LOVE to see alternative ideas of Beyond as a card game. I hope this pitch encourages others to create their own.
grand cradle
Simple question: Why would I play SotF instead of playing hearthstone, magic the...
Do you only watch one movie? Do you only eat one food? Do you only play one game? (I mean maybe yes, but for most people no 🙂 )
Those other game are older, and people get tired of playing the same thing, they want something new. SotF has some mechanics not seen in any of the big games, so it should be quite fresh.
The intent is for the game to be good. Really darn good.
rough sun
1. Do you only watch one movie? Do you only eat one food? Do you only play one g...
I'm just playing devil's advocate, if it's fun or not we'll have to see. I think the main appeal of the game will be being in the Illuvium ecosystem. I don't really see any major difference from SotF to the other CCG.
What to you is the gaming aspect that appeals you the most about SotF?
hoary lion
I think that creating a quality tcg using a product that was not originally intended for is rather risky. I think that the Illuvatar should assume what they are and remain in their purely cosmetic framework and that we develop a quality CCG with our basic material which is the Iluvials and nothing else. I salute the work
hoary lion
1. Do you only watch one movie? Do you only eat one food? Do you only play one g...
Just clone it... win
Cross the et ages tried something fundamentally new and failed royally. We can say a bit of the same thing about Arena which will therefore become closer to TfT.
Make it simple, the recipes for success already exist. Let's just add our spices.
winged tendon
I don't know, if it is Marvel Snap or something else, but I agree that we should copy a successful recipe and not try hard to include Illuvitars, unless it makes sense of course (this is no judgment of this game pitch).
Priority should always be a fun game with our main IP - the Illuvials. Gamers who already know how these other games work, have an easier time to join our metaverse and feel at home immediately.
Once we have a good sized player base we can get creative and develop new game designs.
We can find additional value for Illuvials e.g. #🎮〕illuvium-beyond message
signal karma
Marvel Snap style would be killer
forest lion
I dont think we can assumed much until we have at least SotF prototype.
I have played Yugi, HS , Marvel Snap before.
The think that got me into them was the marketing it self, I have no idea how the game mechanic really is, just "this game is cool", "bro, try this", "This game beat jenshin at gameaward" . Not until I start that I know the gameplay. Gameplay was what keep me playing. So I think if we can prove that the gameplay is solid internally then we only need the marketing/art to make it splashy enough for user to join.
And lets not think about stuff like "this game already got attention, lets not make a game like this". Pubg got rekted by fornite and multiple other battle royale. Gamer are not tied to one game, they tend to explore other.
P.S
Drop HS once it became too much of pack opening.
Yugioh i mostly play from GX to before. The after have too much mechanic. Have u seen them 1 round kill lately :))
Drop Marvel Snap once I reach Inifnite, the after is just grinding for more card with set of card from 1 to 6.
