#Illuvium iron-man mode for Web2 gamers who hate NFTs

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

flat narwhal
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Anti-crypto and anti-NFT sentiment of most of the web2 gaming population represents a very real obstacle to Illuvium’s mainstream adoption.

I’m certain the team has ideas about how to best strategize around this issue already, but I’d like to put this idea out to gauge the community’s thoughts anyway. Things like AB landing pages and user flows for web2 vs web3 are nice, but I worry they don’t go far enough to change customers’ fears around being pulled into a ponzi scheme or scam regardless of the reality or Illuvium being the exception that proves the rule of 99% of web3 games being those things.

Proposal: Illuvium product inspired by Runescape’s iron-man mode which allows players to pay a monthly subscription of $5-$10/mo in exchange for a non-NFT based experience. Players would be unable to trade any of their assets in the marketplace, and potentially miss out on other features NFT based gameplay provides, but could be offered a monthly allowance of fuel (perhaps purchased at the top fuel rail price) and the ability to enter the pay to play stages of the illuvium overworld, collect and capture illuvials, and complete the various quests or lore driven gameplay that has yet to be released. They would then be able to better understand the direct benefits the IBG offers them on their own terms and could be marketed to in game to switch.

Problems include: specific implementations dramatically altering consequences/implications.

e.g. Are iron-man accounts secretly connected to the blockchain with trading functionality turned off?
Pros: illuvial burn mechanics and access the same population of illuvials web3 players interact with
cons: dubious ethical or legal issues

Are iron-man accounts given access to a separate supply of illuvials stored centrally in Illuvium Lab’s database?
Pros: genuinely no blockchain integration
cons: risk cannibalizing the web3 market or experience if illuvials are substantially cheaper to acquire this way
Inability to switch to web3

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There was much more to this and more beautifully written but I hit the character cap Pho_Haha

Edit: This idea came to me while watching Kieran on Brycent’s Twitch stream the other day, when I observed an interesting thing happen. A newly attracted viewer chatted something along the lines of “oh this an NFT game? I’m out” and shortly thereafter the concurrent viewership declined from over 5,000 viewers to less than 2,000 before an unfortunately timed PC crash reduced viewership further to around 700. Perhaps the viewership decline was just coincidental or triggered by the stream’s location on the home page being updated, but regardless the anti-crypto and anti-NFT sentiment of most of the web2 gaming population represents a very real obstacle to Illuvium’s mainstream adoption.

The addition of a "web2 mode" would allow Illuvium’s marketing to in good faith advertise a non-blockchain based option to web2 gamers rather than attempting to hide behind the fact that the beta is not currently connected to the blockchain (but almost certainly will be in the future). I think it would be so much easier to communicate the marketing message of “we think NFTs serve a valuable function, but became toxic, so we built our game both ways. You can judge for yourself which you prefer” rather than “Our game does not currently have NFTs” or “Here are all the ways NFTs are better, please believe that we’re different than all of the other games you’ve heard about”.

I think a much better idea is out there than the two options I've presented, but I trust the community as a whole to figure a solution out that works with the complex economic system the team has created better than I can.

Thank you for reading, I look forward to hearing any and all thoughts!

errant spear
rich leaf
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This idea should be discussed more. Very interesting and unique

vernal cedar
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I thought the plan of the team was to introduce seemless transition from web2 to web3. Meaning people can play the web2 version and farm 5-10$ runs in overworld, capturing illuvials etc without ever knowing its a blockchain/nft game. And then should they chose to, they can transfer their assets to a web3 wallet. Did something change in this regard? If not, doesn't it already solve the problem of web3 adoption

flat narwhal
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What I've seen mentioned is custodial wallets, which is close to the first example but not quite the same thing. I would group this in the AB landing pages and user flows I mentioned. Based on what happened on the stream, a potential new user googling Illuvium and seeing the NFT/Crypto connection was enough to drive them away from engaging deeply enough to fully understand Illuvium's competitive differentiation.

vernal cedar
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So we should hide the fact we are blockchain/nft like we are ashamed or something? How are you even gonna do that, any google search, no matter how we market the game, will lead to us being nft/blockchain. I don't think theres any problem with that. Web2 gamers care only about the product itself and how much entertainment they can get out of it. Seeing how all web3 games up until now are ponzis/scams/money grabs I can't really blame them. However we are already on the right path of providing a AAA polished title that focuses on engaging gameplay, rather than how to steal ur money. That will speak for itself when the time comes, current web3 games deserve the backlash they get.

spare dawnBOT
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flat narwhal
# vernal cedar So we should hide the fact we are blockchain/nft like we are ashamed or somethin...

I'm not ashamed of it, but yes, the primary purpose of making the transition "seamless" is to avoid the negative sentiment of the masses around crypto/web3/nfts which you could describe as hiding. If you watched the Brycent stream, there were basically two rebuttals given to that chatter: 1) there aren't any nfts in the private beta (yet) 2) NFTs are actually good and thinking otherwise is misguided which are both pretty weak ways of persuading people in my opinion. The other thing Kieran mentioned which seemed the most persuasive to me was that the chatter's opinion was valid based on the reputation the space has earned for itself, but this alone isn't enough to convince someone to look past the bad reputation to see the actual product, which I agree with you is what ultimately matters, but only if people actually experience it (which they might not if they're immediately turned away by crypto association).

vernal cedar
spare dawnBOT
#
DMs are scams

Mods and Team members will never DM you.
Never trust advice or links received in DMs.

Beta access, giveaways, and promotions are not given out via DM. Scams are designed to trick you into installing malicious software to gain access to your wallet or to convince you to enter your seed phrase into a website. Never give your private key (12 to 24-word seed phrase) to anyone.

Support is not provided via DMs

Support is handled publicly, or in threads within the Illuvium Discord. People offering support via DM are scammers.

Please follow the instructions pinned in #report-scammers to report bad actors so we can remove them from the server.
autumn kernel
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There is always going to negative sentiment around innovative and disruptive technologies.
The idea of straight nerfing what makes illuvium next gen is outrageous

flat narwhal
# autumn kernel There is always going to negative sentiment around innovative and disruptive tec...

I agree with you, but I think it's possible to form a creative solution that clearly illustrates the advantages Illuvium's web3 structure has without nerfing the ecosystem as a whole. The concern is not that Illuvium's value proposition is worse than other options, but that many people won't even reach the stage of evaluating the value proposition simply because of the association to crypto.

Thank you by the way for all of the work you've put in to making Illuvium's value proposition so strong for those who do dare to investigate it. The work ethic, transparency, and overall quality of work the entire team produce among other things is what has convinced me to be 'all-in' on the project, but I still think it's basically hubris to assume we won't need to accommodate negative mainstream views in some significant form. Curious to hear your thoughts on alternative solutions if you have time.

charred heron
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This is actually quiote a nioce idea. It's like they have with IL:Zero.

charred heron
inland badge
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As a RuneScape player with an ironman, 2k+ total level main account, COUNTLESS other accounts of varying PVP builds, and nearly 17 years of playing the game here are my concerns:

Addressing web2 sentiment: It's important to acknowledge that sentiment changes rapidly, and I believe the concern about anti-crypto and anti-NFT sentiment among web2 gamers is likely exaggerated. It is understandable that web2 gamers hold negative views towards NFTs, considering the history of predatory and problematic web3 gaming projects. However, there are already indications that public perception is gradually shifting with the involvement of prominent gaming influencers like Dr. Disrespect embracing web3 gaming, even during the bear market. As more influencers showcase the potential of these games, we can anticipate a rapid change in sentiment imo (not financial advice xd).

Impact on player interaction: We should consider the popularity of ironman mode in RuneScape and the corresponding updates that have been balanced around it. It's worth noting that the decline in player-to-player interaction seems to have been accelerated with the introduction of ironman mode. While the interaction was already decreasing prior to the mode's introduction, its implementation brought about additional changes that reduced the need for player interaction even more. We are not an MMO but the community is still connected much more than a game like TFT.

An alternative suggestion could involve implementing an ironman mode where players can purchase fuel (or make there own through Illuvium: Zero) to explore stage 1-3 regions and capture illuvials, but they would be unable to trade those illuvials, weapons, augments, etc unless they opt out of the ironman status forever. While I'm uncertain about the success of this idea among the community, I actually have it planned as a future YouTube series. I'm a grinder so I think it would be fun lol. The rewards for participating in an ironman mode could include exclusive skins, animations, or even a dedicated leaderboard for ironman players in the Overworld/Arena. This approach would allow players to contribute to the IBG's economy while preserving community engagement, retaining NFTs, and providing an exciting new gameplay experience for those seeking a fresh challenge.

flat narwhal
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Thanks Jimbo, I too have about 2 decades worth of Runescape experience and like to think I learned a lot of lessons in that time 😂. I like looking at Runescape as an example, because it offers a pretty unique and incredibly simple experience and has retained and attracted players with that experience, while pretty much lagging behind in complexity and modernization in a lot of other areas (visually and tech stack being the most obvious ones).

The solution you’ve put forward is the most obvious one I see, an ironman account is effectively the same as any other, they just have trading turned off until they ‘enable’ nfts (even if the nfts are still involved on the backend) and can purchase fuel in a more web2 centric way, they might use a credit card transaction for a subscription with different tiers for different amounts of fuel, and could have the option to ‘de-iron’ or ‘enable-nfts’ at any moment when sold on the benefits of the blockchain.

Maybe naming this idea illuvium iron-man mode immediately turned people off to the idea, but what I’m really trying to discuss is a web2 ‘lite’ or bridge mode to better attract and onboard mainstream gamers.

It’s possible there is also a divide that exists here between American gamers and other parts of the world because the rhetoric seems a little more extreme and divisive here, but the American market is obviously a big one we don’t want to miss out on.

autumn kernel
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I just fundamentally disagree that the negative sentiment can last IF there are truly innovative games.
People hate the industry now but they also hated MySpace, then Facebook came etc etc.
Facebook didn't say social media is hated so let's just go back to AOL, they kept pushing forward and forced adoption by backing their beliefs.
Fuck the haters, the game itself will convert user opinion, that was always our goal.
We aren't delusional to the negative sentiment, we just believe illuvium is the project that changes it

flat narwhal
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It definitely takes a lot of balls to do what you and the team are doing, which is exactly why I think if it goes pear shaped it's not going to be because of a lack of balls Pho_Haha

Innovation might very well be the most important factor, but along with history being littered with examples of innovative products which failed for another reason which was only obvious in hindsight (unit economics/marketing failures/pricing/lack of infrastructure/etc.), the risk I see here is that the primary innovation is exactly the same thing the mainstream is developing an aversion to.

My question then becomes what are the costs associated with this which are making this idea untenable? Even if it's a product which is clearly inferior, basically a joke, a meme, or entirely a marketing prop?

The ones I can see right now are:
increased development time/resources
additional confusion around product offering
small amount of dilution in perception of average product quality
potential alienation of the top .1% of crypto maximalists

All of those seem pretty small if successful implementation of this idea represented an additional revenue stream and conversion of players who otherwise might have written it off entirely, not to mention the value the network effects from penetrating web2 only gamers could bring.

Sorry as well if I'm coming off as a bit of a c***, I want you to know if there's such thing as an ILV maxi I would be one, I've even formed the legal entity for an ILV-based business!