🎮〕illuvium-arena

[analog carbon]

i actualy have not changed any settings since i start playing 😉

[brazen quarry]

I have groom on and didn't have any crashes (mac)

[analog carbon]

well the past 3 days i had actualy 0 crashes even though i grinded more. maybe today its just my turn to also have some 😛

@proven ember btw. i dont know if actualy planned or discussed already, but it would be so awesome to have a little affinity counter circle on the top right of the Survival Mode UI, i think this will also help new players alot and due to the high importance of this to be able to reach some higher waves it would be awesome to not alwys tab out (since im struggling to learn those :P) Something likes this in the top right maybe:

[dark scaffold]

you have to beat me tho!!!! go back, and play some more xD

[bronze rock]

yea fire beats wind dosen't make much sense

but there are no other options

[dark scaffold]

try to blow AIR on something that is on fire xD it will work, fire will get stronger 🙂

[pale fossil]

Turned groom off, will report results.

[proven ember]

About half of our automatically generated crash reports are groom.

[bronze rock]

yea I see what you mean but the air dosen't get weaker either

[proven ember]

So it should help, but won't be a magic fix

[woven flint]

just crash now, graphics at max, but not the 2 checkbox checked

I ve had quite a few crashes (in beta since 05 may, around 50 crashes), and never groom/hair, my gtx 1650 handle full maximum but not this 😆

[dark scaffold]

i believe hyper works only one way (with benefits), there is no disadvantages, so still everything works 😛 but totally not sure

[bronze rock]

ah gotcha

makes sense

[safe valve]

Definetly 😄

[tight bluff]

I don't remember which brother mentioned it, but left over mastery points will gain "interest" i.e. increase. So your incentivized to use the least amount of points to beat a wave and are rewarded for it.

[proven ember]

Yep - got plans to get something like this in. Just need to work out the best way to get it in!

Feel free to pitch ideas! 😄

[lean junco]

normal, fire need ''nature'' and Air to burn

[proven ember]

Any estimation on how often you folks get a crash? Every how many minutes of gameplay?

[bronze canopy]

Been playing for 4 days straight, 6-9 hours daily. Had not gotten a crash once

[woven flint]

its freakin random for me

yesterday 0 crash in 3h

today 2 crash in 30 min

same things open (discord chrome and illuvium)

litterally no difference

weirdly I had a looot of crashes when playing in "fullscren"
I got not that much now while playing "windowed fullscreen"

don t get the difference, but the difference in terms of crash is huge

basically if I do a guess, for me it s probably 1 crash for 3h in the last 10 days

[bronze canopy]

For anyone interested how to beat waves 10-19, I made some pictures of the compositions and some explanations of what are the main goals of the wave. https://twitter.com/ShabimTtv I will try to do this daily, for those of you interested in learning more, and sharing your knowledge as well.

Shabim | Twitch (@ShabimTtv)

Gamer, streamer, bad investor

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[turbid osprey]

I rarely crash, maybe once per 6-8hours on avg. If you say groom might make crash more could it be possible weaker graphic cards crash more even if it looks like it can handle the game fps wise sometime its too much?

[fair hemlock]

Once every 2~ hours for me

[safe valve]

Play now arround 4 days. Just had a crash once. Could also have been a WLAN problem

[coarse echo]

Maybe one crash every couple hours, but it's very inconsistent.

[safe valve]

Tried it because i wasn't able to Beat 18....
Died easely on wave 16

[bronze canopy]

using my screenshot you died on 16? 16 is one of the easiest waves for me

now 17 on the other hand.... I think my composition barely beats it, and when i move somebody out of place even by 1 hex. its gg. Not saying I am a pro, but that is how i beat those levels

[proven ember]

ty for the feedback!

[safe valve]

Yes... I killed Like 2, maybe 3 enemies

[bronze canopy]

hm. Well if you would like to confirm, I will be on 16 soon. I am streaming it in the discord

[safe valve]

No time sadly... But i will do until 18 on my own comp and try your 18 Team 🙃

[bronze canopy]

16 down

17 tho

[late lagoon]

Anyone got a screenshot of 25? Don’t mind if it was successful or not just want to think about it please 🙂

[zenith mortar]

Attention PB1 testers! We are looking for additional feedback specific to certain aspects of the Autobattler experience. Please, at your earliest convenience, fill out the form pinned here https://forms.gle/N6zcDtV1y9YGyXoc9 . This is an anonymous form so please answer with your honest & truthful opinions. Feedback like this is essential to helping us improve our gameplay experience for future players coming in to play Illuvium! Thank you for your time and effort in making Illuvium great!

[zenith mortar]

Please help encourage all players to fill this form as well incase it gets buried in here guys!

[proven ember]

<@&795142782133207063> please folks

[analog carbon]

done ❤️

[elder estuary]

Done 🤝

[bronze canopy]

is this a quiz? Do I need to cheat again?

[dark scaffold]

i am afraid my answers will be influenced by strength of illuvials representing affinity line rather than strength of the affinity bonus. Dont remember exactly every single one without hovering over them or having access to illupedia, cuz of that i think i will skip this form, or will go with "no opinion" on affinities to dont mess up the data

[bronze canopy]

all I know is: bullwark gud. Air: whats that

[late lagoon]

With the feedback form there are a lot of the composite synergies that we havnt seen in action yet so have out no opinion for quite a few cos it’s difficult to know how they actually play out until you experiment. N the main thing currently is the rogues hyper is way too strong

Vermilliare is op

[vernal forum]

I'd love to see the difference between player reported strength vs the results of the AI testing the team is doing.

[wind steppe]

Done!

[bronze canopy]

Alright gamers, another day has passed, and the hyperion guild is still standing strong on the top. Not for long, mark my words. WE WILL DETHRONE THEM. But all jokes aside, good night, sleep tight, dont let the bed bugs play the beta while you sleep.

[late lagoon]

No more tips for you then 😂

[bronze rock]

Does casual mode still place you on the leaderboard?

Also is there a way to save your login?

[woven flint]

yes

[woven flint]

no 🙂

[bronze rock]

Thanks friend

Any tips?

I get hardstuck past waves 15ish

I'm not very good

Guessing its cuse I don't use the hyper type advantages

[smoky python]

If we are being honest, the problem with stuff like this is 95% of the players have no idea what they are doing so you are getting worthless data from them that will skew the results of what is 'correct'

dont ban me

[warm kraken]

oof, sjud casually saying he's the guy you should listen to and we are noobs

😛

[smoky python]

It's just how any game works. If this was an FPS game then Shrouds opinion would be worth more than someone like me who cant hit a target to save their life

[warm kraken]

@smoky python So there are two things we have to consider while balancing a game.

1. Pro gameplay for sure. And that's the balancing you are talking about.

2. casual gameplay. Even if a class is OP, it doesnt mean it is OP for the casual player. Maybe a pro can use a mechanic so well it looks like 300% overpowered. But if you nerf it, Casual player might end up with something that is at 25% power cuz the mechanic is too hard to harness for them.

TL;DR : you cannot ignore casual gamer input

[smoky python]

The pros can tell the casuals what is good

If you lose the pros then the game will die

From a competitive standpoint

[warm kraken]

Nobody loves a game where you have to google "best build made by XX pro player".

We have to design a game that is both balanced for pro and casual

[smoky python]

Take Rhamphyre for example

Nobody thought he was top tier until I got invited to the beta

Now everyone knows he is the best unit in the game

His power level didn't change.

[warm kraken]

congratz you are a pro player 🙂 Now casual also have the right to enjoy without your input lol

[smoky python]

Nobody knew what they were doing so the team didn't know

[coarse echo]

not to interrupt your conversation, but thought I could drop this here

[warm kraken]

Nice!

[smoky python]

Not nice!

[zenith mortar]

It’s still good for them to have some data, but overall yes I think the developers have a good understanding of what needs fixing considering they made the game lol. But I will say the form was Bens idea so he’s looking for something 😏

[smoky python]

And I can tell you they dont have a good understanding of what needs to be fixing because there are certain broken things

That are super obvious

[zenith mortar]

They haven’t done any balancing yet

[smoky python]

Well I assume before they released the beta they did

[vernal forum]

Its best if you can effectively balance for all skill levels. I agree that final balancing should be catered to the highest level of play but if theres a perception by a large part of the audience that a certain thing is too weak or too strong it can be balanced in such a way that it feels more fair at low levels without ruining the balance at high levels.

[smoky python]

Yah my main point is if you balance around what the casuals think is good or not then I'm just gonna break the game with what is actually going on

[sacred finch]

Its also hard to know what is really overpowered before we have the full illuvial set

[smoky python]

VERY TRUE

[coarse echo]

balance shouldn't be based on skill level though. balance is balance.

[zenith mortar]

And augments

[smoky python]

Some of these illuvials cant even activate one of their composites!

[sacred finch]

For example, if we are going to have a couple more bulwark illuvials with granite, i think it will be broken

[smoky python]

It already is broken

[warm kraken]

It just seems obvious to me that there can exist balance problems at a low level too. Even if you balance the game for high skilled players. The casual guys, including me, might think that idk Atlas is OP because of some reason y'all pro players counter easily.

But he might still be OP at my skill level. And it still has to be noted

@smoky python

[smoky python]

Thats what I'm saying

[coarse echo]

yes, there is so much we don't have, that it's hard to really comment on balance going forward. All we can do is work with what we have

[smoky python]

And then I'll just coach people to take advantage of the unbalanced product

Might as well try and actually balance things

[warm kraken]

exactly! Lets balance for both pros and noobs!

so we need to hear both

[sacred finch]

The ideal scenario is having a lot of viable teams and the ones harder to play being slightly stronger

[vernal forum]

Well you have to assume some level of skill. We could gather data by randomly placing Illuvial teams on the board and balance it so that each Illuvial has an equal winrate but that doesnt reflect how the Illuvials will actually be used in the game so while it might be 'balanced' It would lead to gameplay that feels unbalanced when more technical characters are used properly instead of just randomly thrown on the board.

[smoky python]

Thats not what balance is

If the game is balanced when played optimally then even if the casuals are having tough times with things they can improve and get to that state where things are balanced

[coarse echo]

yes, you're right, that's the equivalent of balancing for low skill

balance should be around how the illuvials and mechanics are used properly

[warm kraken]

Y'all seem to assume that, if pros think units are balanced, they are.

Its not true. Cuz y'all know how to counter specific things. Casual need to be heard. A unit considered balanced might be hard to counter without that Pro level skill. we need to hear casual people input

[coarse echo]

but games should be hard. if you make something easy to beat at low skill, but impossible to deal with at high skill, that's not balance

[sacred finch]

also if you are a low skill player your rank will match you with other low skill players, so it should be balanced for you as well. Then the main point is to balance for the high level players so we don't have one single meta team and everyone always playing the same stuff

[coarse echo]

the idea is if people are struggling, they should learn and get better

[smoky python]

Get good

[coarse echo]

or accept that they're not going to be playing at the highest level, which is also fine

[smoky python]

I'm speaking from experience in autobattlers where if you dont listen to the pros and balance around them then the game will die

[vernal forum]

I think the implication is that casuals dont actually know whats balanced. If i use a bunch of nature types to try and tank a ramphyre and keep getting rekt, that doesnt mean that ramphyre is OP. It just means I suck.

[smoky python]

This

[coarse echo]

correct

you don't nerf rhamphyre because of data like that

[smoky python]

If you can't do 2+2 = 4 then that doesnt mean that math is unbalanced

[coarse echo]

because that's low skill unknowledgeable play

[lime igloo]

When did survival mode and arena become the same thing? I thought Arena was supposed to be the hearthstone like mode where you pay a fixed fee to enter a tournament style gauntlet where you get your input back after winning a few rounds?

[smoky python]

I'm not going to change math cause you cant do it

[warm kraken]

They will accept that for sure. But what if, at perfect balance for High skill level, 1 unit is OP at low skill level? Then every one uses it and its no fun? If you dont have it you lose? Get your wallet cuz you're not gonna get better anyway So just play with the unfun mechanic for low level people

[coarse echo]

everyone that's bad will use it

and the players that learn the game and get better will understand how to beat it

and therefore advance to higher tiers of skill

that's how competitive games work

[smoky python]

Not everyone gets a trophy

[warm kraken]

Why not just accept to hear low level people too and see if there's something that can be done so the mechanic is changed a bit and fun for both pros and noobs

[smoky python]

Because the low level people dont know what they are doing

[coarse echo]

I might have missed the beginning of the convo, but I'm not implying that you shouldn't listen to everyone's opinion

[warm kraken]

lmao

[sacred finch]

then you just make an easy counter for people in the lower level use it

[warm kraken]

That's just elitist. "Trust the pros, get over with it and dont talk we dont wanna hear you"

[smoky python]

Everyone's opinion should be heard but with these anonymous surverys I'm saying you arent going to be getting good data

[coarse echo]

I'm just saying in terms of 'balance', which I thought was the topic, higher skill players are generally better at understanding what could use tweaking

this is standard across all competitive games

[smoky python]

You're mixing the data with top level players and low level players so you wont be actually getting something worthwhile

Instead of separating it out

[vernal forum]

If there are certain Illuvials that are OP at low levels you can do things to balance for lower levels of play. Its just more important to preserve balance at high levels than low levels.

Everyone can learn and get better at the game.
Nobody can fix bad balance if one thing is just straight up better than another.

[coarse echo]

sorry I joined late, you were talking about the survey, now I understand

[smoky python]

I'm also just speaking in general but yes the survey was the starting point

[warm kraken]

@smoky python the way yyou worded it was that casuals dont know what they're doing. Even if it may be true, it just doesnt mean they should be ignored

[coarse echo]

straight up better, yes, that's bad. perceived as straight up better by people that don't understand why that's potentially not the case, this is fine.

[smoky python]

They can be heard but decisions on game balance shouldnt be made based on what they think

[coarse echo]

and that perception becomes more reliable with more skill and game understanding

[warm kraken]

lmao

Alright

[smoky python]

Martini and I have been down this road before with devs who want to cater to casuals

it doesnt end well

[coarse echo]

I don't think it hurts to get mass data from the playerbase about how they feel about things

[warm kraken]

Cuz you're a pro and they should listen to you

[smoky python]

Well the game died lol

All the pros quit and took the playerbase with them

[warm kraken]

Alright i have a suggestion that will stun you:

Listen. To. Both.

[smoky python]

Sure listening is always good

[pale fossil]

My sons spend most of their free time talking about balancing issues in Overwatch, there is a character called "Wrecking Ball" that all the noobs use, then nobody touches mid tier, but then the top 500 players use it in comp, because they understand the character much better and know how to use it. Making changes to cater for n00bs in this example would be counter productive.

[smoky python]

Doesnt mean you act on what you listen to

[sacred finch]

For casual players the main concern is to don't have frustrating mechanics, like if there was something with a lot RNG involved it could make people unhappy by losing to it even if it wasn't a good illuvial at all

[smoky python]

Yes this is the type of stuff that should be listened to from casuals. If game mechanics are just actually unfun

[coarse echo]

yep, listening is good. def don't ignore anyone.

[pale fossil]

The discussion here is always awesome.

[smoky python]

I think we all want the game to succeed

I just know from experience what happens when you go down different paths of balancing

[warm kraken]

Its a good thing the form is open to everyone then, not just the Pros

[smoky python]

That form is just speaking about balance

So no

[warm kraken]

Unbalances can be unfun

[smoky python]

Then get better

[vernal forum]

Like Vermilliare feels OP as fuck to me. Obviously the top level players have figured out ways to deal with him but he could still be better balanced IMO. Maybe if he had a little less health and more damage he would feel more balanced to less skilled players, AND he would still be balanced at high levels. Its not a zero sum game.

[smoky python]

I dont find chess super fun because I am not good at it. I'm not trying to get the game to nerf Bishop

I need to get better

[woven flint]

I don t understand
balancing is balancing, there is no balancing for pro and balancing for casu
this unit is trong against this, it wouldn t change at different skill level 🧐

[warm kraken]

lmao this is going in circles. Ok i'll repeat.

what if i'm casual and cant get better? Than fuck me? No way we can look into that character and find a way to modify it so it feels balanced for both pro and casual ?

[smoky python]

It does if the casuals dont know how to use a certain illuvial

[smoky python]

You aren't forced to use any Illuvial you arent good with

[woven flint]

sure, but it s not balancing

[smoky python]

Exactly my point

[woven flint]

it s just you dont play how it s suppose to be

[smoky python]

Yup

[pale fossil]

We should be happy people find the game hard, that adds shelf life.

[sacred finch]

so you just get stuck with around 50% winrate at a lower rank and play against people with the same skill level and have fun

[smoky python]

Tons of room for growth which is rewarding

[warm kraken]

But people wont all get to pro levels that's impossible, so lets hear from casuals too and find out if they feel something is too strong at their level too so we can look into how the character interacts and see if there's a way to change it and make it fair at casual and pro levels

[woven flint]

exactly that s the beauty of MMR, you gonna play people of same skill level so it s btw balance

[sacred finch]

Easy to learn and hard to master

[woven flint]

look my last comment on MMR

[warm kraken]

so we dont need to balance for pros' either cuz they have the same MMR anyway

[vernal forum]

We dont require pro soccer players to all be 300 pounds so that the game is 'balanced' when the fat fucks watching it on TV want to go outside and kick a ball.

[smoky python]

LOL

[woven flint]

it s not balancing pro or casu

[smoky python]

can we balance basketball for height

[woven flint]

it s balancing the UNIT

[smoky python]

let me dunk on a lower hoop please

[coarse echo]

people get stuck at various experience levels in every game out there. everyone can't move to the top, that's just the way it is, and it's totally fine. If there is an unfun mechanic, it should be looked into to keep up enjoyment. this is not a balance issue though.

[supple cave]

There is no MYSTIC option on the Illuvium Beta feedback document

[warm kraken]

alright y'all just make fucking jokes about unrelated stuff, moking my point, so its the end of the discussion

[smoky python]

I think it's important you brought it up though

Because it's something to show the devs what not to do

[vernal forum]

Survival mode is also a horrible indicator of balance since the teams are imbalanced in point value and certain characters are better at later stages in the game than earlier.
Ramphyre feels too weak if you put him in on round 5 and super strong when you put him in on round 25.
This will lead to low level players feeling like Ramphyre isnt good when they actually just dont get far enough in the game for him to be used properly.

[warm kraken]

He's sticking the knife even deeper. "@ devs please dont listen to casual like this guys said he's a fucking casual. If a character is balanced in its pure definition, its no use checking that character to see if its possible to make it enjoyable for fucking noobs too"

[smoky python]

Another good example

[supple cave]

Survival challenge mode is a small part of the game. We can't make decisions about wether the game is well balanced or not just by playing the survival mode with +- 35 illuvials to choose from. Especially since "balancing" is way more important to be checked at the pvp tournament arena, with stats equalized, where the esports tournaments will happen.
This game NEEDS to be hard, imo. Being easy will make it a BOT festival on the overworld, for example. There has to be someone playing to get things done efficiently, because it's hard. Casual player will play casually, just like they do on every game. Elden Ring, for example, an work of art game, is fun because it's hard.

[smoky python]

Yes in the future we will need to see how ALL the illuvials interact with each other

Because that is when you need the true balance

[supple cave]

The original Demon Souls was crazy hard to finish, and I loved it, years ago. No wonder it became a whole new game genre

[vernal forum]

Really the game needs to be balanced for PvP. If that leads to imbalance in survival mode that can be corrected by changing game mechanics specifically within survival mode.

[supple cave]

I think overworld and survival NEEDS to be HARD.

We need to feel like it's hard

[pale fossil]

Aaron "We would like players in 5 years time to still be finding new ways to use the battle mechanic".

[supple cave]

When I get a new game, I go straight to Hard mode. Thats where the fun is at.

[smoky python]

Real quote?

Thats awesome

[pale fossil]

In an interview, yep, the moment I heard that the smile split my head in two.

[supple cave]

I love that yesterday I tried and didnt get past wave 11-12. today I was happy to go to 19

[smoky python]

Think of how good it would feel to be that player who discovered something new after years

[warm kraken]

Guys they're trying to make a fun game, that's the thing. I understand your definition of balance. and we need it. But they dont ask the question only to see if its balanced, but also to see if people FEEL like its balanced.

If at low level, there's only fire that is relevent as an element. the rest is too hard to use. Does this looks like a fun game to you? Sure its balanced in its definition, and pros show it. But you only see 1 type of character at low level.

The point again is that even if its balanced, you CAN make modification to mechanics while hearing your community in a way that its balanced around something new, but isnt bullshitty unpleasant to noobs.

And that form is all about that. They ask us, everybody not just the pros, if something feels unbalanced, cuz that's unfun. Even if their algorithm and pros told them that the numbers are balanced

[smoky python]

I think thats all well and good in theory. But in practice if they are balancing around that then the competitive scene will be a failure

[warm kraken]

You're the one insisting on the definition of balance and not applying it.

They can balance a new mechanic, but that will FEEL more balanced for casuals too. BUT STILL BALANCED.

[smoky python]

In a perfect world yes

Everything would be balanced for all skill levels

Thats just not how the world works though

Balancing is super difficult

[warm kraken]

I'm not talking straight up about nerfing like. Oh look we make Rhamphyre 50% weaker. I'm talking some mechanic change which will still be balancable for pros, and once balanced it dooesnt feel as bullshit for noobs

[warm kraken]

it is

[smoky python]

And I'm sayin if there is a fork in the road and they have to choose between balancing for the top players and balancing for the casuals

Choose the top players who know what they are doing

[warm kraken]

I'm honestly just annoyed that you're dismissing casual player opinions. I agree with you about the need for a balance to keep a game alive and pros playing and bringing players in

[smoky python]

Maybe I came off to strong about that

It's not a straight up dismissal

[coarse echo]

I don't think he's suggesting you ignore anyone's opinion.

[smoky python]

It's what should be valued higher when making game decisions

[coarse echo]

In the fire example, something would need to change if it was uncounterable

[warm kraken]

What if its counterable cuz pros do it with ease and feel its balanced. But Noob feel like its not counterable

[coarse echo]

But if it's winning at a low level because people don't realize they can jam a bunch of earth on their board, that's not a balance issue

That's people being bad at the game

[smoky python]

that is a problem in games where you need actual reflexes and fast twitch skills

This is a strategy game that anyone can play

It's about knowledge

And you can always gain more knowledge

[warm kraken]

There's a line where the difference in skill cause an acceptable feeling of unbalance, and on the other side not

[smoky python]

Then they can always come to me for coaching 🙂

[coarse echo]

But knowing that x counters y is not skill. It's just time and effort to learn

[warm kraken]

yeah but fuck that, Noobs dont live to support streamers. We also want an enjoyable game without the requirement of googling "best build"

[coarse echo]

If someone doesn't put the effort to learn, then claims something is unfair, that's not a signal that it needs to change

[vernal forum]

I think too many people get caught up in the great tokenomics, the amazing graphics, the prize pools for future tournaments, and rightly so.

There’s a lot to be excited about, but I think when it comes to the council etc, these conversations need to be at the forefront of that and there needs to be more representation from the competitive gamers perspective

I’m not saying it hasn’t been discussed because I know it has, but to a limited extent imo.

If your honest then you’d have to admit that this game will live or die based on its competitive integrity, irrespective of all the other great things it has going

The discourse above shouldn’t be limited to only the pb1 discussion

[pale fossil]

Once you start understanding things, your enjoyment increases heaps, you just have to keep practising.

[coarse echo]

You don't have to Google anything. Try stuff and see what works. If you haven't found it, you haven't tried it.

[smoky python]

Completely agree. Games like dota, league, counterstrike survive for so long because of the competitive scene

[coarse echo]

No one's perfect

[smoky python]

If you dont want to put the effort in then why do you deserve anything?

[pale fossil]

I'm in total disbelief how CSGO is still going lol, I played that shit when I was a teenager.

[smoky python]

Absolutely nuts.

[warm kraken]

watching streamers isnt making an effort.

playing the game is. and it should be enjoyable

[smoky python]

Then you can stay at the lower ranks

Thats perfectly fine

[warm kraken]

I hate what you just said

[coarse echo]

Correct. Enjoyment is not equal to balance

Two different topics

[warm kraken]

implying noobs gonna stay noobs if they dont watch y'all pro players

[smoky python]

No

I'm saying if they are struggling after putting time in on their own

Then they should seek help

If they want to improve and not be a noob

[coarse echo]

The implication is people who don't put in the effort to get better won't get better

It's not directed at any individual

[smoky python]

It's the same with anything in life

[warm kraken]

yes and we can do that without living for streamers

[smoky python]

How do we get better at math?

We learn from someone

[coarse echo]

Did I miss something? Who brought up streamers?

Maybe it was mentioned as one potential source of knowledge?

[smoky python]

lol

You also said you dont want to do a simple google search either

[coarse echo]

Oh okay. But that was not directed specifically at streamers. More like, if someone doesn't put in effort to get better, they won't get better, whatever the source of knowledge may be

[vernal forum]

As far as im aware balancing is something that will be left up to the game devs, not the council.

[warm kraken]

The game has to be enjoyable without the necessity of looking for builds yes

[coarse echo]

but someone doesn't have to play at the top competitive level for it to be enjoyable. sometimes you're gonna lose a match. lots of times you're gonna lose matches. doesn't mean it isn't fun.

[smoky python]

If you arent finding something fun solely because you are losing then get better

[coarse echo]

even at top competitive levels, people lose all the time, and have to adapt if they want to stay competitive, otherwise they fall off

just cause you lose, doesn't mean something is unfair

[warm kraken]

Lets say I play Diablo 2 for the first time.

I dont want to get completely rekt at the first ennemy right? That's unpleasant. What if some pro says that the game is balanced. The items to be able to beat it are there, you just gotta have the knowledge. That's still unpleasant for the noob

i dont wanna be googling about D2 builds the first second i enter the game

[pale fossil]

It's really frustrating to die on levl 12, then watch someone get to level 30 after a smashing out chest/biceps, I agree.

[coarse echo]

Sorry, but I'm confused where the break in understanding is on this topic

[smoky python]

I enjoy singing but im a fucking terrible singer. I wont win American Idol but I still enjoy it anyways

[vernal forum]

I keep getting that bug too

[smoky python]

LOL I feel like this is targetted at someone

[coarse echo]

the best part is trying it out for the first time and knowing it's hard

[smoky python]

Yah

[coarse echo]

if it's easy for a beginner, then there's nothing to work toward

you need progression

[warm kraken]

Exactly!

[coarse echo]

exactly

[warm kraken]

Finally we agree that things shouldnt require pro level instantly, but a progression

[smoky python]

Yes

[coarse echo]

someone losing to rhamphyre when they're playing 11 nature doesn't mean rhamphyre needs to be fixed

it means if that player wants to improve they're game, they may wish to learn that rhamphyre is good against lots of nature

and if they don't wish to improve they can continue playing without that understanding, and that's fine too

[smoky python]

And if that is the case then maybe the game can make it easier to find out that nature is bad vs rhamphyre

[coarse echo]

and maybe their next low rank opponent blindly plays 13 air, and the full nature build crushes

this is how lower level play tends to go with counter systems

at a higher level, there is more nuance

and that's where balance matters

for instance, giving archie 5 extra points of attack damage will not change anything at low level play

[smoky python]

But it could make a huge difference in top tier play

[coarse echo]

but it could make a huge impact in high level play where the smallest things can matter

stop copying me

[smoky python]

maybe that 5 extra damage gives him enough damage to be able to kill an illuvial that usually counters him

and so now its not a counter anymore

It's like reducing attacks frames in fighting games

it can completely change a matchup with 1 small difference

[vernal forum]

Do you guys have any guides over there on the HYPE server? Tryin to not suck.

[smoky python]

And the casual player would have no idea that there is this interaction between the units that can make all the difference

but the pros would

[coarse echo]

haha, don't think there are any guides yet, coming soon probably. We do have a friendly community where people chat about game strategy all the time though.

[warm kraken]

Alright so basically:

If fire is the only viable option at low level, y'all dont care. People will just learn and get better. Noobs dont deserve a game with diversity at that level. If they cant get better, well fuck them

[vernal forum]

And it’s hard to criticise that, when it’s people like Aaron and Ben etc. But It is easy to fall into the trap of feeling there needs to be some great distance maintained between game devs and players. It’s important yeh but only up to the point at which it’s reasonable. The two perspectives are completely different and maybe it would be wise to have more of a relationship between the two

Have full faith in the devs their clearly intelligent and I’m sure the whole balancing issue is perpetually on their minds, but it’s too important an issue not to have input from the top players at the higher levels of council discussion

[coarse echo]

fire will never be the only option, that's where there's a break in understanding

[warm kraken]

I'm stretching my point here cuz y'all dont seem to care about noob opinion, like their feeling of unbalance doesnt matter

[smoky python]

If fire is that OP at lower levels where there is literally no other option then it will be broken everywhere

[coarse echo]

to understand that it's not the only option requires more knowledge

and that's where the skill gaps form and you end up with people that are effectively better at the game than others, across a very wide spectrum

[coarse echo]

correct. if it truly is OP, that is a balance issue, but not if it's only a problem at low rank

that just means people need to get better to advance

at some point everyone hits a wall

if you're wall happens to be "I can't beat this OP fire team", then so be it

[warm kraken]

alright

I understand your opinion

[coarse echo]

as long as OP fire team isn't actually immortal

and it's just a lack of knowledge/skill preventing you from beating it

'you' being general here, not directed at an individual

and obviously the fire scenario is just a toy example, it could be anything

[smoky python]

Yah there's a major difference in the imbalance at lower levels being due to knowledge and skill and actual broken mechanics

[proven ember]

to be quite frank, this version of the beta isn't balanced. It's not terribly balanced, but it's for sure got some outliers. That's due to a few things.
#1 we haven't really run a focused balance patch yet.
#2 because you're played with a fraction of the game. Small roster of Illuvials, no Augments ect.

[smoky python]

if its a broken mechanic then that needs to be fixed

[coarse echo]

for sure. we can't really examine balance properly until more stuff is in the game

[smoky python]

When 🐧 ?

[vernal forum]

Wen!

[proven ember]

and that's not accidental, it's entirely known going into it. It's not worth the dev time to perfectly balanced when that balance state is going to be obsolete soon.

[coarse echo]

Pen!

guin?

[warm kraken]

@proven ember make sure to not listen to noobs when balancing tho 😛

[coarse echo]

Wenguin?

[proven ember]

But we'll be balancing for the next round of survival as we've got 103 new Illuvials... dozens of new Augments ect.

[vernal forum]

I just want the T0 😢
Those 20 mp synergy boosters are gonna be 🔥

[proven ember]

more than double the combat units

bonding - completely changes the synergy system.

[coarse echo]

103 = 75 + 31 ☑️

[smoky python]

Wait next patch has 103 illuvials?

oh shit

[proven ember]

103 new.

[smoky python]

https://tenor.com/view/its-happening-gif-23353691

[proven ember]

It's Lynxes and T0's

[vernal forum]

YASSS

[proven ember]

so some duplicate work

but each are unique

unique omegas

[coarse echo]

yeah that was my 75 + 31, is that not right?

[proven ember]

unique stats.

[coarse echo]

106?

[smoky python]

So no penguin?

[vernal forum]

Will we not get deck building until all the Illuvials are released?

[smoky python]

😡

[proven ember]

No penguin 😦

[smoky python]

uninstalling

[proven ember]

understandable

I want tiktaalik in

[coarse echo]

bonding gonna be 🔥

[smoky python]

Dont tease awesome illuvials then withold them !

[coarse echo]

9 earth 4 granite, come at me

water not allowed

that would be cheating

[proven ember]

but this poll, isn't being used as the foundation of the balance. It's a sounding board to see what the players think vs design team, vs the neural net.

I don't care about any individual opinions for the time being.. long as you've played pb1 - your feedback is valid.

End of the day - we balance for the top end, but need the design to be relevant to all

[warm kraken]

Ohhh so people's opinion matter, not just pros? (sorry i'm annoyed rn)

[proven ember]

you'll notice questions very much not aimed at balance in there

[smoky python]

Awesome to hear

[pale fossil]

Mother of God... Cancelling my plans to go back to work 🤣

[vernal forum]

Are you guys gonna start putting bulwarks back in the deck after the patch? I miss being able to get to bulwark 6

[proven ember]

Advantage of an autobattle vs highly mechanical games is we don't end up with effectively 2-5 different games at different skill levels.

[smoky python]

Exactly

It's the same game for everyone

[coarse echo]

Please don't be annoyed. All friendly discussions here about a game we're all interested in. Maybe some slightly differing opinions, but that's okay.

[proven ember]

Lol for example - has characters with sub 45% winrates in one elo, and 55%+ in another.

which is just impossible, and then when you consider onboarding...

[warm kraken]

That's the thing. Friendly discussion, except that the points that noobs might bring is not important compared to pro's opinion

[proven ember]

where you need low skill threshold characters for newer players..

it's an impossible task to balance at all levels.

(for them)

[coarse echo]

The survey also asks for rough time spent in game, so that can be used to split the data into buckets that may show differing opinions on things

[smoky python]

I can spend 10 hours a day playing dota i still will be trash

[proven ember]

I wonder why I included it 😛

[smoky python]

That doesnt really matter

[vernal forum]

Hey man, Its not you. Your teammates just suck.

same thing happens to me

[smoky python]

true

Not my fault they cant win 4v5s while I'm jungling for 30 minutes

I got gold to farm

[coarse echo]

But I could argue the same in the other direction. That you don't understand my point when I feel strongly that it is correct. And no one said a 'noobs opinion' doesn't matter, just that it's less relevant for balance.

[proven ember]

So I should ignore this channel? 😛 None of you even got past 30!

[coarse echo]

It's just slightly differing opinions for now, and that's okay. No one needs to take it personally.

[proven ember]

Grant made it to 150.

[coarse echo]

I made it to 31 today. All of my units survived.

ez

[vernal forum]

Grant was using the OP *archie though. We all know it.

[vernal forum]

Think 1 did

[coarse echo]

for realz?

[proven ember]

took him like 18 hours

[smoky python]

It's impossible to go past 30

[smoky python]

LOL

[proven ember]

and the difficulty capped at wave 18..

[coarse echo]

https://tenor.com/view/problematic-stressed-smh-oh-dear-gif-23576897

[warm kraken]

ahahah sorry dont mind me. I'm annoyed by previous discussion but you basically confirmed what i'm saying for the past hour here:

#🎮〕illuvium-arena message

[proven ember]

Oh don't tell me we're getting elitist chat already 😄

[warm kraken]

"relevent to all"

[smoky python]

Yes they will balance the game for people like me

the design will be fair for everyone though

Like I've said

[coarse echo]

you just linked a comment saying feedback matters, but balance is for the top end

[smoky python]

Thats the healthy way to do it

[warm kraken]

yes

[coarse echo]

cool, all good

[proven ember]

https://tenor.com/view/adventure-time-now-kiss-finn-gif-5658105

[warm kraken]

"relevent to all"

🙂

[smoky python]

You do realize that comment you linked is exactly what I wanted and you didnt want right?

[warm kraken]

Even noobs you imagine?

[coarse echo]

"design relevant to all"

[vernal forum]

Wave 31 isn’t for the faint of heart.

[coarse echo]

you missed a word

design is not balance

[vernal forum]

Looks like everyone agreed the whole time 🤣

[warm kraken]

noooope you're still not listening

[smoky python]

The game will be balanced for the top end

[warm kraken]

Design "relevent". Kinda implies a sort of balance for noobs too

[warm kraken]

yes

[pale fossil]

You ever see 6 different people do the same maths problem? You'll get at least 4 different ways of achieving the same outcome, we all want the same thing.

[smoky python]

kind of yes. Thats just to make sure things arent broken fundamentally

The actual balancing will be for the pros

[warm kraken]

Yes! so we have to listen to noobs too what a surprise

[smoky python]

No

[vernal forum]

Ill be one of the two with the wrong answer

[smoky python]

If things are broken fundamentally it will be broken at the top end

And trickle down

[vernal forum]

Like how Wall Street works

[smoky python]

I always got in trouble because I never showed my work 😦

[warm kraken]

@proven ember and that's the elitism you were looking for

[coarse echo]

this is more towards interesting mechanics that are fun

[vernal forum]

Guys... ben isnt here to settle your little squabble...
He is here to hurry up and push that patch so we can have more Illuvials

[smoky python]

Yah if something is just a pure random diceroll thats not fun then it should be changed because the design is flawed

thats nothing to do with balance

[proven ember]

Our game is intended to be deep and complex enough to play chasing mastery for 10,000+ hours. And you can't have a competitive game without balancing around the top end. But it's pointless having a game that is only fun / balanced when you've spent that much time. Or nobody ever gets there.

[coarse echo]

simplexity

[smoky python]

Yup

[coarse echo]

that's what Aaron called it

[smoky python]

Ideally everything will be balanced everywhere

In my dream scenario

[coarse echo]

fun and easy to understand on the surface, deep and complex at the highest level

[smoky python]

I can tell you right now though that wont happen haha

It's an almost impossible task

[proven ember]

It's incredibly complex and incredibly subjective

simple truth is nobody is ever happy with balance

[smoky python]

LOL so true

[warm kraken]

My go-to example for this one is Fortnite. The dept of the building mechanic in this game is endless. But noobs have fun too at low level in their lobbies

[quasi rivet]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[proven ember]

now it's midnight here and I need to stop working. But please remind folks to fill in the poll please. More data makes the data more accurate.

[warm kraken]

yep we've been sharing it in language communities too

[blissful oxide]

Kukkaraphs border colour must be incorrect?

[zenith mortar]

Jeaz

Channel is hype

I was gone for like 2 hours

What’s general

My new home

[warm kraken]

Yeah sorry lol had an argument

[zenith mortar]

Haha no I’m glad Ben chimed in

[warm kraken]

Yep

[zenith mortar]

We were talking before I made the form and were talking about this exact thing basically lol

[languid sparrow]

👀

[zenith mortar]

That it would happen this way

[warm kraken]

This message from Ben solved the whole thing

[zenith mortar]

Ben sees into the future btw to be clear not me

Hey actually did you guys get the email

[warm kraken]

Didn't receive a thing

[zenith mortar]

Hmmm

Maybe takes time to get through list I haven’t either

[warm kraken]

Refreshing my boxes give me a sec

[languid sparrow]

Suggestion: Players will have to consent sharing those data like a button on/off simple as that.

Illuvium can ask of it's can collect data from player while they are playing in game...
Like how many time did you play .... what region have you been on x% Santum Mesa x% Crimson Waste....

[zenith mortar]

Why ask them just collect lol

[languid sparrow]

Yes,

[zenith mortar]

Thank you ser

Busted

[warm kraken]

Don't do that linkky

[languid sparrow]

Heeeee

[zenith mortar]

I had a cat that looked exactly like this

[warm kraken]

Did he dance like that

[pale fossil]

Most cats look like that brother.

[languid sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/problematic-stressed-smh-oh-dear-gif-23576897

[supple cave]

Rain of fire incoming, perfect Rhamphyre screenshot.

[zenith mortar]

I’m sure he does in cat heaven his name was qbert

[zenith mortar]

This is sick

[pale fossil]

Fully

[robust surge]

Im playing Illuvium on a tv screen and it looks unreal 👀👀 The phone camera doesn't do it justice

The feathers and the steam though

[pale fossil]

When the guys are doing the film clips and the camera is panning around the battle, is that pure software or will they have a joystick of some sort that helps with those smooth strafing action shots?

[smoky python]

Last run of the day. No air staff needed

[supple cave]

check the video where I took the screenshot. the Omega I captured was incredible.

[supple cave]

yea, no idea

[pale fossil]

I'm tempted to get the baddest GPU I can find and make video clips of the battle engine on max settings with music, it's stunning!

[coarse echo]

No staff needed, just a little strategic nudge on 25 😉

Well done, just in time.

[smoky python]

Please 'balance' synalph

I keep falling into the trap of using him

He is unplayably bad

[supple cave]

Yeah, this Illuvial isn't working well

[warm kraken]

Damn he's my MVP

[smoky python]

Just take him out of the deck so I wont even be tempted to use him

[supple cave]

He was my top damage on wave 17 today

[coarse echo]

His best use is to take a lot of damage and die so your other units survive longer.

[smoky python]

lol

[warm kraken]

Yeah when you go psion this guy is stronk

[smoky python]

He's not

[supple cave]

He is not strong

[smoky python]

He costs about 30 gold too much

[supple cave]

he needs work

[warm kraken]

Oh sorry I had dualeph in mind

Don't really play synalph

[supple cave]

and he often loses all his energy and don`t cast the omega because the focus target gets killed when he is about to cast

[smoky python]

You're thinking of Seeforus

[warm kraken]

Seeforus bug is annoyinggg

[smoky python]

Yah Dualeph is really strong

[supple cave]

seeforus does it also, but it happens to my synalph

[smoky python]

ah weird

[pale fossil]

I have entire battles where seeforus doesn't get an omega off, I need to place him better.

[warm kraken]

They'll fix the bug

[pale fossil]

You see, I'm not sure that's a bug, just put him on stronger targets or use the baby version of him. But alas the team have recognised it as a bug where I see it as a feature.

[warm kraken]

It is weird tho I wonder how it happens in the code. I mean the fight is all calculated in advance, I wonder how the stack fails

[supple cave]

Seeforus animations also bug sometimes, he just stays "frozen"

[pale fossil]

Makes me laff.

[warm kraken]

Have you ever seen people play live chess? It's a weird meme chess where pieces move on a cool-down, we don't play turns so everything can move at the same time.

It reminds me of this lmao. Imagine throwing your queen at the enemy but they just move before the queen gets there

[pale fossil]

You know how I got my best level so far? Playing on comp mode lol, I'm waaay overthinking each round 🤣

10am, spam time over, new deck 💪

[warm kraken]

Ohhh

[molten jay]

I filled questionnaire. Also want to add that would like to see fire illuvial to be stronger. And its like Fire and water illuvials are not as strong as other in my opinion . Its very hard to balance between attack and def when u need to have those 2 on the deck.

[smoky python]

The fire illuvials as a whole are prolly the best units in the game

This is the kind of stuff I was referring to before

[vernal forum]

Yeah I don’t think anything can out-damage ramphyre and scoriox.

[coarse echo]

what do you mean by 'need to have those 2'?

[molten jay]

To counter the wave

[warm kraken]

What happens if a strong majority of casual players suddenly agree with his statement?

[smoky python]

They are wrong

Who cares if they agree

Get good

Really there should probably be 2 separate surveys one sent to the top players and then one for the public

That way both playerbases get their viewpoints heard and it doesnt mess with the data

[warm kraken]

I'm screenshoting this gem

[molten jay]

Ramphyre dies before he can use his skill

[smoky python]

no he doesnt

If he does you are using him wrong

[stark swift]

They can just look at top player Illuvial usage to determine top player preference. Overall sentiment about "fun-ness" and the "feel" of different affinities is different than what is currently the most performant when played correctly.

[smoky python]

Yah this is a good point. I don't know what kind of data they have on the backend. Something like this would be very helpful for the team to look at

But also with a limited illuvial pool right now, sometimes we have to use units we dont want to

[molten jay]

Do u really think that game should be so complicated ?

[smoky python]

Yes

[warm kraken]

Yes

[molten jay]

Like we have to spend 100 hours to be on same lvl?

[smoky python]

Like I had to use Blazenite and Synalph with yesterdays deck just cause there was nothing else

[smoky python]

Yes

If you want to be good you have to put in the time

Stop trying to get everything handed to you for free

[molten jay]

Then its not a game.

[smoky python]

Yes it is

[molten jay]

I am very good in chess 😂

[pale fossil]

Kukka just facetanked Mallura on the back line like a champ lol.

[smoky python]

Those birds are always MVPs

love them

[vernal forum]

If you could beat the game completely on your first try without practicing why would you ever continue to play it?

[pale fossil]

Seriously I had 2 in and they fucken bossed it 🤣

[warm kraken]

Don't worry, devs know their thing

[stark swift]

There's a balance that has to be struck with all competitive games.

You need the entry barrier to be low enough and relatively friendly so that adoption can exist. Without a playerbase, no one cares about the top end. You also need systems where you can learn and become skillful, because without a top end, there's no point in putting more than 10-20 hours into a game.

This is only my opinion as a person, but I'm seeing the poll as a way to gauge how people think about the current lineup of Illuvials, as opposed to how they perform. Sentiment is (unfortunately?) usually different than reality.

[smoky python]

Sentiment being different than reality is what gives the top players their edge a lot of the time

[pale fossil]

I'm starting to love these chickens...

[vernal forum]

Kukka may be the best illuvial in the game for its cost.

[smoky python]

It's certainly close in my opinion

[pale fossil]

I think you're onto something...

Gonna have KFC tonight.

[smoky python]

LOL

[molten jay]

For example MBLL chess game has. An option which gives u advice who to pick u can follow it or add some other heros. That helps to adapt

[smoky python]

rip chickens

[smoky python]

So you literally want the game to tell you what to do

[vernal forum]

Let the game place them and start the rounds too. Gives a whole new meaning to autobattler.

[warm kraken]

We won't get that sort of assistance in this game! But you will be matched against people of your level, giving you time to learn

[molten jay]

I am writing this because i dont find it fun when it is so complicated. If i have those feelings maybe some other players will have .

[pale fossil]

I just tried a cheeky little Ninja Kukka on Ador and she didn't cast one heal... I love it.

[smoky python]

You can always spend some time trying to learn more about the game and improving

[molten jay]

So maybe both of u think that earth goes around you but game is supposed to be fun for lot of people not only for those who can play 24/7

[smoky python]

You should still be able to have fun at things you arent good at

[warm kraken]

Don't worry! The team will listen to the majority of players too, the casuals, and make a fun game for everyone. We know that the game isn't only for the competitive scene

[pale fossil]

For Science 🤣

[stark swift]

It's a good option for a tutorial for new players. Suggesting a simple tank/DD/utlity setup to start out with. Never underestimate how many people haven't played the genre before.

I don't personally think that Illuvium is too complicated to learn from scratch, but I have context from a massive amount of other games I've played. The more complicated it is to the successful, the more people have to turn to outside resources to figure things out. That can be good for content creators etc, but it can also be a barrier for people who aren't willing to do research.

There's a big gap between "I want to try this game out, but wtf is going on." and "I want to be #1 without wearing pants."

[molten jay]

Yeh like 2/3 hours doing autobattler is ok tho, even when the game will be released i am not sure if people spend so many time for this mode

[smoky python]

the autobattler is the mode

[smoky python]

Isn't this what the first part of the overworld will be like?

[coarse echo]

huh?

[smoky python]

Tier 0 Illuvials and your ranger to learn the basics

[molten jay]

Thats what i ment. Its not about me i was able to do 20 waves when desk was strong and i can do better but its my opinion and advice.

[stark swift]

Yeah, but an intro to the basic mechanics of the genre (even going so far as placement suggestions in your first few battles), could be helpful.

I'm not really sure what the team has planned for onboarding stuff.

[smoky python]

Yah I think we might find out soon with PB2 !

[vernal forum]

I’m pretty sure the end goal for survival mode is to have enough waves that it becomes impossible at some point so nobody will ever ‘beat’ survival mode. When pvp is released there should be matchmaking so you end up playing against people of a similar skill level.

[warm kraken]

Yep, Aaron said we weren't supposed to reach wave 30

[molten jay]

For me PVP is the best part of any game. Survival has to have some good rewards to play it.

[warm kraken]

I personally prefer survival! But yes there will be rewards in both

[smoky python]

Not bad for a first run

[vernal forum]

Different strokes for different folks. I can see some people preferring the ‘puzzle’ aspect of survival. Pvp will probably be more popular though.

[molten jay]

Yeh and hope we can compete. 😉

[woven flint]

for science 🙂

tripple kukka and double seephorus 🙂

[pale fossil]

This will be my goal today, see how far triple chicken can go 💪

[woven flint]

just did, well 15 was the endpoint

[pale fossil]

So much fun.

[woven flint]

yes it is 😄

tornado everywhere

[worldly jolt]

Lol I definitely need to download and play the “new” build.

[woven flint]

yes it worth it, really fun to watch it play

[wicked cloak]

finally

[smoky python]

Sorry bro Hype > Polemos 🙂

I hate dying in the late 20s with no checkpoints though 😦

[smoky python]

Seeforus bug on 24 now. Not happy. This is a definite deck for 30 but might be too frustrating to keep going

[vernal forum]

I like the seeforus bug. I think they should up the damage a bit and leave the high failure rate in as a feature. The high risk/reward aspect would be really cool in pvp as a hail mary.

[smoky python]

Well good thing I didnt even want to play anyways!

Good luck to everyone. 30 is 100% achievable

[smoky python]

The problem is its not just a Seeforus bug but for every Illuvial with a multi hitting Omega

So youll be seeing a ton of illuvials 'bug out' in the future if they dont fix it

[vernal forum]

Yeah seems like a simple fix. Just have the illuvial select the target(s) after the omega charges not before. I just like the idea of seeforus being like a slot machine where he either wrecks or not. Lower tiers need a tank killer anyway.

[smoky python]

I really dont like slot machine rng stuff for competitive play though

[smoky python]

Unfortunately they have to recode the targetting system to change it so not so simple of a fix but it should be their #1 priority

[vernal forum]

It’s been a while since they pushed an update so I’m expecting big changes with the pb2 launch.

And I get not wanting randomness but it’s not exactly random. It’s just a complex condition that needs to be met where no targets can die while it’s charging. Much like some skill shots in Dota where they are incredibly hard for inexperienced players but pros know exactly how to time them to make it work.

[smoky python]

But its a skill shot that you have to predict before the match starts

Yes it is theoretically possible but not really

[vernal forum]

Get gud

[smoky python]

It's also just non necessary randomness

Good players want less random

[vernal forum]

Personally I don’t have a lot of fails with the seeforus ult so maybe I’m biased.

Like maybe 20% failure tops.

[smoky python]

Yah thats a ton

Also you arent playing as many waves as me

[vernal forum]

The number of waves wouldn’t change the percentage…

[smoky python]

But your fails arent happening at wave 24

If it fails at wave 5 its no big deal you can get back there in two minutes

[vernal forum]

True. I can see how that would be annoying especially since we don’t have checkpoints yet. I’m thinking about pvp mostly. My super sweat game was StarCraft 2 so I’m used to the idea of an ‘all in’ move that’s very high risk high reward. I can see how coming from autochess it would be a big difference for competitive play.

[smoky python]

Yah autochess is more about getting that information known and trying to predict how the battle plays out

if you have some 50/50 cast from your carry its becomes far less skill based

[vernal forum]

But this is an autobattler not autochess. They’re different 🤣

[smoky python]

Very true 🙂

But the general concept remains

I think the fact that it has such little hp gives it that high risk high reward feeling anyways

You really have to protect it or itll die to 5 autos

[vernal forum]

I’m just messing with you. I trust that the devs will make the right decision and after that it’s our job to play with they tools they give us.

[tacit glacier]

submitted my PB1 feedback survey! hope it helps 🙂

[fallen vortex]

I like the checkpoints since they have like a max 3 use and what not. I would like them less if they didn't

I do like the idea of emulating what pvp might look like more. Your ranger has 100 hp or whatever and no single battle can wipe you out

But you can have a close run in 2 battles and still be barely alive

[smoky python]

While I get that, I'd rather keep the two game modes separate. Let PvP be PvP and let Survival be Survival

They will both be fun

Maybe we will get the real pvp game mode in PB3

[pale fossil]

Switching to NVIDIA studio drivers to see if that impacts crashing.

[smoky python]

Apparently you can press b while you are playing and it tells you how many crashes you have had

32 for me

Pretty large number

[wheat sable]

Filled in the questionair, go Illivium 🙂

[full aspen]

Hello everyone. I have a problem with display in the arena. In main menu colors are good but in the arena i have very bright colors and I can see nothink. I play on the macbook m1 air

[pale fossil]

Checking after drivers are done.

[tawdry mortar]

Everyone playing, remember to help the team out by filling this in!

[pale fossil]

You've submitted 32 crash reports?

[smoky python]

Yup

[pale fossil]

I've stripped everything NVIDIA related from my PC, rebooted, installed fresh studio drivers, groom is off. Let's see what happens.

[dark scaffold]

@bronze rock i was mistaken!!! I am ashamed of myself, but @analog carbon proved me that hyper system takes in consideration disadvantages as well

[echo hatch]

Hello everyone,
I've only been playing the beta for 2 weeks.
So far, i haven't had any crashes or bugs in the game.
I sometimes have connection problems, i have to go about it twice to connect because the password is not recognized the first time.

My setup: intel core i5 4690k, rtx 3060ti, 16 gb ram, sss samsung 870evo, windows 10.

[pale fossil]

I've reported 3 crashes, I've probably had 10 but I've been playing a lot.

[silver merlin]

Ive had 0 because i cant play much and dont get very high

[jolly hearth]

Ihave not played that intensely... my issue is that I do not learn anything new. I start each day, try 2-3 times and then I inevitably lose interest, because I have no idea why my team was great in wave x, but totally sucked in x+1. The whole hyper mechanic is completely incomprehensible if you have no background knowledge. I one time had a game where an enemy started hyper in second 1, in other lengthy battles it never occurs. Then I try a different build and die in a completely different wave - which may be intended, but again I learned nothing new to improve.

[smoky python]

Have you gone online to different websites to learn how the hyper system works?

[proven ember]

thanks for this, we need to provide a lot more clarity regarding hyper.

[molten jay]

Some guys found broken things after playing 1000 hours and use them as a cheat and they thing they are pros. Thats my opinion.

[smoky python]

LOL

sounds like you're just mad cause bad

[vernal forum]

You need to come with receipts with a statement like that

[jolly hearth]

I know there are people who obviously found out how the mechanics work. And I think it's cool if a game rewards high mastery levels. But in this case there is a gap. You have some things like the synergies which are explained through the UI, so you have a chance to pick them up without doing a thousand runs of trial & error. And there are other things that are completely opaque.

[smoky python]

There really should be an ingame glossary of some sort

Even if it is really basic

[vernal forum]

Are you trying to insult actual pro gamers by calling them 'pros?' I dont think this is the own you think this is.

[molten jay]

Naah ask them to stop insult non pros pls

[vernal forum]

I dont disagree with you there. I do think you might have more success by asking questions and trying to learn from them rather than being upset that others are more ahead of the curve than you are.

[jolly hearth]

Synergies: cool, UI helps you through it. You can calculate and try out, you have a basic idea how to use them.

Basic movement and placement: you can intuitively learn who is going to attack whom, who moves where and so on. Also good or at least ok (in some cases, it's hard to judge what is going to happen, but i'm fine with the state - this requires mastery)

Hyper:???

Affinities: after playing this for weeks, it is still not clear to me how affinities interact with each other or how they counter each other. I know they do and I tried to learn the order, but what bugs me out is already that the order of countering affinities is NOT the order in which they are presented in the UI... (or I really did not get it)

[smoky python]

Yah I don't think calling people that are better than you cheaters is a smart way to go about it

[smoky python]

Check out the affinity page on illuvialmaster

[brazen quarry]

Don't bother, they only help if you pay

[smoky python]

My knowledge is valuable

[vernal forum]

Not 100% true. Ive picked up some valuable info by talking to these guys.
They can certainly be dickweeds a lot of the time but high level gamers aren't exactly known for being cordial and friendly. Its just the industry we are in.

[molten jay]

Nope not cheater. But if there is some overpowered champs in the game or there is a synergy it has to be nerfed. When someone find out it and uses for his own success that is not a skill believe me.

[smoky python]

That's 100% a skill

[vernal forum]

Especially in a monetized game where skill can translate directly to profit. If they give their knowledge away for free its akin to just handing out free money

[smoky python]

The whole point is to try and find the best illuvials and synergies and use them

[molten jay]

Whole point is to search and find those illuvials and build good teams while playing overworld

[smoky python]

Nope

[molten jay]

Not like make team of 4 kuka and 4 seeforus

[smoky python]

The whole point of the overworld is to find illuvials to use in the autobattler

It's like opening a pack of cards

But more fun

[jolly hearth]

Ok, so apparently it's Water>>Earth>>Fire>>Nature>>Air>>Water.
However, in the placement screen it's ordered Water->Earth->Nature->Air->Fire.

Can someone please please swap the order of these icons to the relevant one? 🙏

I will submit this, it has been confusing me for weeks.

[smoky python]

Thatd actually be pretty helpful

Same with the composites

[vernal forum]

There will be so much more depth added to the game by the time its released. Deck building, augments, and higher level synergies will totally change how things play. We are basically playing a limited demo and the devs have acknowledged that the game isnt currently well balanced so I wouldnt read too much into the fact that some people have mastered the current build.

[smoky python]

The skill gap will only increase as more and more depth is added

So if you think I'm cheating now....

[vernal forum]

See. 👆 Like I said. Dickweeds most of the time 🤣

[candid galleon]

In our server, they give plenty of tips. But yeah they're not going to give all their secrets or individualized coaching. I have learned a ton, though.

[candid galleon]

He's just describing the lifeline of a game. As games get more complex, skill gaps matter more.

I've worked with and played with SJUD. Most people in PB1 have no idea how to play the game. It's not being a dickweed, it's just honestly the truth.

[vernal forum]

I know. IDGAF because I know what it takes to play a game at a high level. It doesnt hurt to be a little more soft handed with other members of the community though. Not everyone has the background you do.

[molten jay]

Yeh otherwise theres no sense to make synergies and other stuff. There has to be logic why team is strong or its not. Why one can beat another. .. again sorry for my English.

[candid galleon]

I agree with you. I dunno, he's always been super nice to me. I think he just doesn't take kindly to when someone suggests he cheats or abuses bugs.

[smoky python]

There is plenty of logic to why teams are good/bad currently

[candid galleon]

There is. It takes time/practice.

[vernal forum]

I only talk trash because I know he can take it.

[smoky python]

I definitely can !

[candid galleon]

Ok good. He can definitely take it. He loves eating trash.

[smoky python]

https://tenor.com/view/oscar-the-grouch-gif-4823285

[jolly hearth]

The important thing is that the motivation to play the game needs to carry you through this. I will not practice if I do not see the point.

[smoky python]

The point is to get better

And eventually make money

Trust me if you put in the time to learn properly you will see improvement and good results

[candid galleon]

That's the difference between pros and relaxed players.

Nothing wrong with playing more relaxed. I, for example, am pretty decent at the game. But I dont play a ton, and I probably wont be a pro. And that's ok :)

[vernal forum]

It is important to remember we are building a community here. Nobody will benefit from this game if we dont encourage new players to get better and enjoy the game. There are many ways to do this but some are certainly better than others.

[smoky python]

I encourage everyone to get better

[jolly hearth]

yes, but if that means i need to repeat the same stuff for 5 mins just to maybe get a split second where I can maybe see something... nah...

[smoky python]

I just want them to work for it and not expect it to be handed to them

[candid galleon]

Not exactly how it works, I'd say.

[candid galleon]

I think it's more that you play the game, analyze what happened, and try new things, then analyze those too

[vernal forum]

Yeah your great at the game. As far as encouragement goes youre stuck on round 7.

[smoky python]

I'll take it

[vernal forum]

Yeh but there will be so many areas for this to happen, it doesn’t mean that the best players should be super liberal with regard to giving away all their knowledge

Community is all well and good but it’s worthless without competitive integrity

[candid galleon]

You can be his coach to teach him how to encourage. Plz.

[jolly hearth]

I already have a problem with the analyzing part since I cant replay, I get no damage statistics when I lose etc

[vernal forum]

Working on it.

[smoky python]

Yah the stats page of the last round should be available

Just another UI thing that needs to be implemented

[candid galleon]

Definitely makes it hard. Gotta kind of focus on one aspect at a time.

[candid galleon]

You can also play with friends for more eyes on the screen, and discuss what you see

[molten jay]

I understood everything about you. Yeh guys are trying to fix the balance but u say its ok i am good as i found some broken illuvials, that is my skill finding them. You are not helping this way. The questionnaire was send to find out what has to be fix. And i m not crazy about anything i am just more lazy and i dont care if u do better then me just be more polite next time when someone puts his idea to help.

[jolly hearth]

Ok... it seems to work...
I also found another explanative video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twnmhe948A

Another thing I was wondering about: what determines with how much energy an illuvial starts?

[vernal forum]

Its a pre set stat that differs between characters.. To me thats one of the huge things thats missing from the UI currently. It would be super useful to know what the starting energy and max energy of every Illuvial is.

[smoky python]

And the exact formula for energy gain

both for attacks and damage taken

[bronze canopy]

https://twitter.com/ShabimTtv Wave 11-14, 17-19. Sorry for not having 15 and 16, I got lucky on them and could not repeat what i did! Hope this helps!

Shabim | Twitch (@ShabimTtv)

Gamer, streamer, bad investor

Followers

2

Tweets

8

Twitter

[pale fossil]

Not broken, it's all positioning and understanding special attacks, ie, know where that shrimp cannon is gonna shoot and keep troops clear.

[molten jay]

Its autobattler there are no similar 2 battles even with same positioning and illuvials

[bronze canopy]

This game is actually preditermined. if you place them exactly the same way, the result will be the exact same

[pale fossil]

Every battle is exactly the same, deterministic engine.

[bronze canopy]

Sjud, what do you do for wave 15? elp

[molten jay]

Sometimes they miss or get more dmg u never know that. Yeh u can get same result if u have much stronger illuvials but its not same

[smoky python]

I force a draw on it every time haha

[bronze canopy]

no, thhere is no randomness

[bronze canopy]

ah so you are having trouble with it too huh

[smoky python]

With my current build yah its just a draw

[bronze canopy]

I beat it once with the air build, but i had probably like 1 guy survive with 5 hp

[smoky python]

No reason to change it because I need to be able to get to my Wave 16 team

Once you find something that works might as well stick with it

[molten jay]

Theres no or it supposed not to be ?

[bronze canopy]

Battles are preditermined when you press start. So if you put them exactly the same way each time, you will get the exact same result every single time without exceptions

[molten jay]

Idk even while 1st wave my illuvial finish fight with different HP

[bronze canopy]

so maybe you put it 1 hex to the side or to top or bottom idk

[smoky python]

Place it in the same exact same hex

[molten jay]

I had situation where 1 vermilliare killed alone my axodon and vermilluare alone with half hp plus my ranger. I was surprised as i was already thinking i have done that wave.

I thought it was maybe because of synergy but what kind of synergy can make him so strong somewhere while the 8th wave.

[bronze canopy]

Vermiliare omega ability hits in an AoE

so, in one hit he can kill a group of characters

[molten jay]

So i had him too in my team

It was not 1 hit fight mine missed his special 2 or 3 times

[bronze canopy]

unlucky

What i wonder is: Lets say an illuvial dodges an attack, and he will do so every time with same positions. WHat if you change positoin by 1 hex, does the dodge chance get rolled again?

[molten jay]

Yeh thats what i was trying to say even if everything is determined before the fight starts u can be

Unlucky

[bronze canopy]

predetermined unluckiness, sounds like the story of my life

[molten jay]

My plan is to learn illuvials step by step while playing the game the one which i ll be able to collect and find best strategies using them. IMO PVP should be balanced, i am ok if there will be some op illuvials who are stronger then others thats very important in terms of game economics, but i dont want to get like 10% of total illuvials op and rest trash.

[silver merlin]

Thats why balance changes exist

[molten jay]

Think devs are trying to do so and will be very much grateful to those op players who has better understanding of game then me help in this, to cover all disadvantages or bugs and not just show off their skills 🙂

[bronze canopy]

i got an easy wave 15 wave 16 tho

[fair hemlock]

How i beat 16!

[bronze canopy]

how easy?

[fair hemlock]

not too easy xD I doubt it's a failsafe solution like maybe even only phyriox alive now that i think about it

but yall can fix the positioning and it should work xD

[bronze canopy]

experimenting on wave 17

[small oyster]

Is there a new button for dropping units or something? I left-click them and then when I left-click on the board location they are still stuck on the cursor...

[vernal forum]

Hello, I got an email to a google form for some additional feedback about the autobattler. But I am not in the Beta. WHy did I get this email @zenith mortar ?

[zenith mortar]

You should be in beta then lol

[vernal forum]

That would mean, I missed my invitation somehow? Can we check this somehow?

[zenith mortar]

Dm me

[brazen quarry]

I did, don't know why

[small oyster]

I think its missing Mystic

[bronze canopy]

Fraggy never misses the chance to slide in those Rich dm's

[brazen quarry]

You have no idea

[bronze canopy]

nobody streaming

https://tenor.com/view/excuse-me-gif-23710986

[hollow hill]

No stream no party 😤😤

[bronze canopy]

I am a generous God. If 3 people tell me to stream I will

[sudden mist]

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-stream-gif-24669117

[bronze canopy]

1 down

[bronze rock]

are there video's of the top players getting to wave 30?

[bronze canopy]

Sure, for $50

[worldly jolt]

Yeah. Check some of the posts in #🎨〕community-content some of them have YouTube channels and have shared there. Or others have helped capture it.

[bronze canopy]

GAMERS! Today was a day. We got to top 4, ended the day on top 10. The hyperion guild is still giving me wet dreams. BOIS! TOMORROW. RANK 1! FOSHOFOSHO. Good night illuvium, love yall.

[molten jay]

GL and GN 🙌

[pale fossil]

10 mins to new deck 💪

[smoky python]

Please let me play today Illuvium

No more locking me out

[pale fossil]

Sorry deleted, thought that was guild chat haha.

1 min!

[smoky python]

haha

The moment of truth

What a good sight to see!

[pale fossil]

Now I'm getting the greyed out button, time to sacrifice something to the gods.

[smoky python]

For real?

[pale fossil]

Nope, just came good.

[smoky python]

Ah phew

[pale fossil]

OK, I'm aroused:

[smoky python]

Yah todays deck is a 30

So strong

[pale fossil]

Driver refresh didn't help, I'm switching back to Game Ready drivers.

[smoky python]

So strange since you've hardly had any issues with the game before

[pale fossil]

I am my own worst enemy sometimes when it comes to tinkering with my PC.

[sudden mist]

I made the same mistake when I upgraded to windows 11 the other day... as soon as I restarted I had the blue screen of death and it took 3 hours to fix.🙄

[pale fossil]

I'm not happy with 11, I regret upgrading. Feels sketchy.

[sudden mist]

Agreed. They even managed to jack up the display settings so I can't hook up my extra monitors anymore.😡

[bronze canopy]

Good morning, how is it going today out there bois

[dark scaffold]

i feel like wave 30 is waiting for us both today ^^

[bronze canopy]

is that so

[rocky mortar]

When we launch the game does it let us know if there is a update? Or do we have to do that manually?

[dark scaffold]

last time we just couldn't play the game on old version so you knew that you have to download new (we were receiving error, and info to update)

[rocky mortar]

Thanks friend 🙏🏽

[smoky python]

Never lucky with tiebreaks

[brazen quarry]

19 on first try, pretty proud

[pale fossil]

I'm struggling today.

[smoky python]

16 was the hardest wave for me

[pale fossil]

That's what I'm stuck on, but I'm not using Rhamphyre, I will now.

[smoky python]

Even when I beat it , it was really close

[brazen quarry]

My Rhamphyre died before he got to do his ult in 19 so I guess that's what rekt me

[halcyon nova]

I will try in the morning ima morning guy

[remote horizon]

interesting, I had never crashed in the last few weeks, but today I encountered two bugs, one crash and one time where the opponents illuvials were placed in the wrong direction 😄

[fair hemlock]

I havent used Rhamphyre until wave 23. Which is where i died 😂

[brazen quarry]

Stupid dragon 🤣

[dark scaffold]

i'm more terrified of atlas tho

he wrecked me yesterday have you ppl seen hyper atlas? MONSTER...

[pale fossil]

Damn it looks sweet when Seeforus sends it from the bottom left to the top right 😍

[smoky python]

His Omega is so cool

when it actually casts...

[pale fossil]

I've had whole rounds today with no casts 🤣

[safe valve]

Had multiple rounds too 😂
And now 2 crash in 60 min 😔

Is it a Bug or intended, when seeforus Stopps his Omega ?

[vital echo]

Anyone using a Macbook Air M1 Laptop to play PB1 Beta? My laptop gets extremely hot so wasn’t sure if that was same for everyone else using Macbook Air M1 model, or if it’s not even feasible to use this laptop to play (and need something else to play it) thanks

[pale fossil]

They die as he's trying to cast

[pale fossil]

It's a bug I've heard, I prefer they leave it as it is, unpopular opinion.

[safe valve]

Yea... Or vanish

[iron kayak]

Me too 2 crash same level

[hard galleon]

Guys Private Beta 2 will be the same as Private Beta 1?…the arena gameplay?

[lean junco]

yep, only the survival mode but with more stuff

if u have accès tu PB1, you will have acces to PB2

[hollow whale]

Yeah but it’ll be pvp now if I’m not mistaken

[gritty wren]

soo pb2 release in 13 days?

[reef basalt]

Nah. No dates set.

[fair hemlock]

@reef basalt
The twitter-Gleam-giveaway is ending in 2 weeks. Giving away PB2 acces without PB2 live is kinda silly. So it could be expected to release in 13 days. But the land giveaway didnt hand out the rewards right away either 😬
So 13 days is the most optimistic date for sure and i dont think we should expect that to be the actual date of release.

[weak meteor]

@noble radish @zenith mortar @low halo
I have a proposal for the game....
Can we have a temporary tutorial gameplay ( like survivor but with info and sugestions) say i have a certain enemy lineup there would be a message saying remember rougue steam can be counter by this kind of afinity.
Or whenever we rightclick on an illuvial on the deck it shows whats strong agains and weak agains very shotrly
I think this would help people especialy in these early stages of the game learn the games mechains better and have better results and be more proun to share their success

For ex. As for now until i learn the affinities and all the roles ... i have to have this pic on my phon ready to peak at when i need to counter rouges or carries

[reef basalt]

Yeah for sure. Hope is alive but temper expectations lol

[reef basalt]

[bronze canopy]

Garf

Is there a wave 30 or is wave 29 the limit? does infoluvila got that info

[fair hemlock]

Do remember that the closed beta is purely that. :] the open beta will have a thorough trailer, training grounds and everyone will start with only 5 types of Illuvials (T0s) so the gameplay will be wayyy easier than it is now.

If you need help just tag me and we can go over the game togerher :)

[fair hemlock]

Ask @smoky python :]
Please do tell I'll add it to our database xD

[bronze canopy]

He is offline

:c

I am pretty sure its the limit tho

[reef basalt]

Once you clear 29 it ends

[weak meteor]

It makes sense ...
Ty for the info
It would be nice to have a walkthrough together at some point

[fair hemlock]

We are working on writing one :) Though it might need to be ever so extensive and in depth to satisfy complete beginners 😅

[weak meteor]

Maybe make a video tutorial on hos you play from wave 1 thgough 17 or whatever and explain your thought process or smth

Im not a compelete beginner

I finish at wave 12-13 daily

😅

But still dont know whats good agains what

By heart

[bronze canopy]

I have all the screen shots of waves on my twitter

[fair hemlock]

You can find video tutorials by frobei and Illuvination on youtube. Zeptyle sometimes streams on Twitch. If you join the discord streams, you can find me, Dzierski, Timmey, Shabim etc also play a lót :) So if you need help we are always around and i think happy to help.

[bronze canopy]

or almsot all... I will add the rest in a bit

[weak meteor]

Thank you all

This is one of the reasons i love this game... the community is awesome

[noble radish]

Tutorial is coming. Getting the game working perfectly comes first.

[weak meteor]

@frank pawn had some cool tutorials i dived today.. i lernt there for the first time practicly what is hyperactive and how to take advantage of it..

[fair hemlock]

Was it the old or new version of hyper?

[weak meteor]

Stall the rouges ... rouge atack the carries

[bronze canopy]

You can check out my stream live in thsi discord, last run until 29 if i can make it

to see what I am doing

[weak meteor]

Ty

[bronze canopy]

For anyone who is interested, waves 10-29 on my twitter. Will try to do this daily. IF enough people will need - I will add description with why my strategy works for particular waves! https://twitter.com/ShabimTtv

Shabim | Twitch (@ShabimTtv)

Gamer, streamer, bad investor

Followers

3

Tweets

17

Twitter

[weak meteor]

@bronze canopy dude do u have a big poster on the wall with info whos strong agains who ... cus i felt like u kept staring st ur wall for it

[bronze canopy]

I do have resources yes, one second

[weak meteor]

Gr8 stuff btw just what i was looking for

[bronze canopy]

illuvialmaster(dot)com/affinities - here you can click an affinity and you will se how good/bad other affinities are against it (for hyper status) if you do not know what hyper statsu is you can ask here as well

and I hand-drew a cheat sheet for myself screaming at me EARTH BEATS FIRE DUMBASS

stuff like that

[weak meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-no-nope-gif-13134027

There are versions of hyper??

[fair hemlock]

Yeah the old version took into account all enemies on the board. The new version is only affected by the illuvials in a 50 hexagon radius (check out Illuvium.fandom.com/hyper

[bronze canopy]

Garf, Enlighted this padawan about hyper

[weak meteor]

Lol duh... i knew abt the site.. just never though of useing it like that lol i feel so dumb

[weak meteor]

That would win the meme competition

[weak meteor]

Ty...

5 surrounding water illuvials (+2) and 4 nature illuvials (-2) would net the Air illuvial [5x2 - 4x2 =] 2 points per second. .... so much math for one placement.. damn this game gonna have a long life...

[bronze canopy]

yes, i love the complexity. Literally grinded 6 days in a row 6-10 hours daily to FINALLY beat all the waves

Gonna be changing the status quo around here

[fair hemlock]

Yeah, you gotta do some maths alright. 0+2+2+2-2+2-2+1-1 oof there are two's and ones xD
At some point you'll become quick at 2s and 1s

[vernal forum]

What is your username on the leaderboards ?

[bronze canopy]

CuddlyDoka

[safe valve]

Actually if you put all your stages online until Final Stage, there is no Status quo anymore... Leaderboard just useless then imo 😂

[bronze canopy]

Yea, that is the change

Atm, the only way someone will show you those waves is for money

I do it for free

I can do explanations for free too if people need

leaderboards do not mean much, i want people to know how to play

I love illuvium

[weak meteor]

I might take up on this one day

[bronze canopy]

I love the illuvium comunnity

[weak meteor]

It will come a time i will come to collect this promise (mafia voice)

[safe valve]

Don't think it's a good one...
And no offenes, i Like your enthusiasm, but i would actually rather do it with explenation why illuvial x is good against illuvial y...

[bronze canopy]

yea no probs, I can add descriptions to pictures with the main problem of the wave, main goal etc

[bronze canopy]

yeah i can add descriptions if people need

like this is the main goal, these are the main threats, this is how i beat it

and you can try your own way etc

this is obviously a lot more time consuming, but if i get requests - no probs

[weak meteor]

Thatd be awesome

[bronze canopy]

So for example for wave 11: Main goal: Make enemy Rogues useless. Sear is very good versus Vermilliare by himself, he will get hyper and take a lot of punishment before going down. Goliant/Titanor is also good versus Umbre/Rake. Hide your Scoriox behind A tank (Arlen here). Add DPS. I chose Vermi. Is this enough info?

twitter does not allow for bigger responses x.x

IDK what is a better medium of distribution

[fair hemlock]

Discord seems good 👀 make a new server. Name it: private beta help-desk

[bronze canopy]

Maybe

[weak meteor]

I think so too... all the most invested plyrs are here

[bronze canopy]

I dont think Illuvium will allow a new channel for this

[chilly birch]

It’s a noble pursuit Shabim, will you be committing to this long term ?

[bronze canopy]

I sure hope so

[weak meteor]

@umbral oracle
@zenith mortar what do you think?

[fair hemlock]

We should make a seperate page on Infoluvial for this

[bronze canopy]

But do remember I am still a newb, I am making progress daily with you, I am not a well of knowledge yet, all I can do is to do my best

[weak meteor]

There will be other who will want to contribute i think

[fair hemlock]

Once you become pro, you will right? :]

[bronze canopy]

would be amazing

[weak meteor]

Definitly

Master miagi

[bronze canopy]

Also formatting - a lot gets lost in discord as soon as it leaves the screen

Imagine having 20 pictures with 2-3 paragraphs of info on each

daily

Maybe a youtube video?

Running down each wave etc

[weak meteor]

Yeah

[vernal forum]

That’s my phrase 🤓🫣🚂

[weak meteor]

Open a yt channel named illuvium atlas

[chilly birch]

I just borrow 🥰😅🍬

[zenith mortar]

For what

[safe valve]

Am ibreally the only one in here, having concerns about puting a solution for every single stage online?
There is no competitive aspect anymore if everybody easely conplete all the stages...
Like i said before, i Like your atitude of starting content, i am just not sure this is the rigth Way... People Like to Be on the leaderboard if it's Hard to get there, if everybody finishes all the stages there is no point of having a leaderboard at all...

[bronze canopy]

Well people literally pay money to get that info right now

And you are free to not look at it, right?

[bronze canopy]

we are just discussing atm

[fair hemlock]

There is no reason to be on the leaderboard either way :] it id a private beta

[vernal forum]

I get you, and I agree. But there’s what 100 new illuvials added in the next patch I think, so while what Shabim is doing is nice, it’s virtually impassible to keep that up, you’d need to be doing it full time pretty much

But it’s a nice gesture now for newbies

I don’t think it affects anything too detrimentally. Paying for stuff in the early stages of a beta I’m not a fan of but it is what it is

[bronze canopy]

I am not a fan of it as well, the only reason I wanna do it

I stream everything anyway

Anybody can go look at vods etc

I always say what I am doing before I do it

[safe valve]

That is actually not more workload, there are just more viable Solutions

[vernal forum]

He has to be the one committing to providing these solutions, it’s way more workload, as the game is growing into its full version with the majority of illuvials in it

[zenith mortar]

This it’s for fun currently