🎮〕illuvium-arena

[alpine dagger]

Lol

[west quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/capoo-bugcat-capoo-asian-mom-asian-chop-gif-18045965

give us another predator then 😉

[hot pond]

With 50 slots and no augments, you can fit in almost all viable illuvials now into one team lol

[worn tree]

[wide aspen]

After many discussions we simply reached a conclusion that it's better this way. Making an early-game comp where you put units together, and then having to move a lot of units around just because of a few Ascensions also felt weird. This felt like the optimal solution. And again, it really isn't that bad.

[worn tree]

Sure, I can't say anything more on this as I need to feel it myself. I guess once I get the ingame experience I will understand better your decision 😄 Thanks for the feedback though sir!

[lavish python]

stoked

but yeah, this means my 3 remaining matches will be the new game mode

[worn tree]

Hhahahahaha, how much ILV for that? 🏆🥂

[gritty wren]

mastery points still the same?

[topaz lake]

yes, for now

[sacred finch]

this doesn't show when adding a Lynx evolution

[topaz lake]

Lynx is a special case, you have to add them manually

[onyx sundial]

Are the rest of the illuvials in this patch? Or no new ones added?

[wide aspen]

Nope, no new illuvial out yet

[alpine dagger]

Danggg i made some sick deck, cant wait to try it out , gl boys

:S

[vernal forum]

damn so basically you can now get to 9 psions, 9 bulwarks, right? am i reading this right?

[wide aspen]

Yes, it is now much easier to get to your synergies

[alpine dagger]

So 2 empaths wont do synergy proc, until you upgrade them to be mystic , i think putting empath class activate at 2 units like rouge would fit better

I put small monkey and small gey , they aint having synergy till late game 😄

[wide aspen]

Well it's up to you to create comps that can bypass this ^^

[worn tree]

So As I understand it, right now you can't have two illuvials of the same line at the same time right. You can't go with the 3 rats anymore?

[wide aspen]

That is correct.

[worn tree]

If that is true, this is a massive paradigm shift

[worn tree]

Holly, the meta is completely new with this. Amazing. This way, the stages of the game will be differentiated much more clearly.

Congrats guys, you have figured it out in the smoothest way possible.

[silver merlin]

Is the illuvidata site teambuilder already updated as well or did they not have access to the changes before?

[zenith mortar]

Dont think it is

@reef basalt ?

[silver merlin]

Damn then I need to hope I can steal a deck from a streamer soon👀

[worn tree]

Can you ascend an illuvial twice in the same turn?

All stage ascentions cost just one token?

[wide aspen]

Yes, you can ascend an illuvial twice in the same turn, and yes, all stage ascensions cost one token (+ the difference of MP to the next stage)

[worn tree]

Excellent, thanks for clarification.

2 ascention tokens each turn starting in round 2 and max storage of ascentions tokens is 3.

If you refund a stage 3 illuvial and you already got 3 tokens, what happens with the token? You lose it?

[topaz lake]

you gain the token, so it will be 4

[worn tree]

So you can have up to 4 tokens but you need to burn them before the round as only 3 will be trespassed to next round?

or even 5 tokens

in other words, there is no cap of tokens but between rounds only 3 can be stored?

[topaz lake]

No, for example, if you have 5 Tokens, and you don't use them, only one will carry over.

1 only one carries over

[proven ember]

For now, longer term you'll be able to place multiple lynxes into your deck.

[dull wind]

🔥

[worn tree]

but then you earn 2 extra in the next round so you get 3 at your disposal in the next round.

[topaz lake]

Yes. 1 Carry + 2 Round Tokens

[worn tree]

Great, then this "there is no cap of tokens but between rounds only 3 can be stored" is a pretty accurate summary.

Thanks @topaz lake

[zenith mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/let-me-in-eric-andre-wanna-come-in-gif-13730108

[worn tree]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

[silver merlin]

Are there new starter decks or no decks at all now?

[topaz lake]

Yes, they are updated to match the new stuff

[silver merlin]

Guess I'll try those out till I find something better

[hardy minnow]

ohh, glad i finished my 25 games on my new account haha

[worn tree]

Question, a ranger bonded forming composites also counts towards basic affinity and class?

Ie, you have a ranger bonded with axodon, forming harbinger and tsunami. Does it provide water and bulwark as well?

[topaz lake]

Yes. If you bond with Axodon with i.e. a water Gauntlet, you will end up with: 2 Water, 1 Psion, 1 Bulwark, 2 Tsunami, 2 Harbinger

[worn tree]

Exquisite!!!

[silver merlin]

These are gonna be some strong teams

[worn tree]

Damn right

And the caps 3-5-7 (2-4-6 for rogue) are not moved? Or you have 3-6-9 now?

[zenith mortar]

$tip @worn tree 0.001349 ILV

[misty sigil]

@zenith mortar sent @worn tree 0.001349 ILV (≈ $0.18).

[worn tree]

Hahahahahahhaha man you are joking Hahahah I love you ❤️

[zenith mortar]

Generational Wealth

youre GMI

[worn tree]

I will be Rich thx to Rich

[zenith mortar]

Today. You. Chose. RICH.

[worn tree]

let me finish my deck and I send you the link

[worn tree]

Hahahahahah

[worn tree]

Sorry if it's trash tho, Normally I iterate a lot

[zenith mortar]

Cant be worse than something I make myself

[worn tree]

@topaz lake can you confirm me this please sir? Sorry for the spam

[topaz lake]

All I'm saying: we have stuff planned

[worn tree]

Seems cool! but does it work with 3-5-7?

Currently I mean

[topaz lake]

Yes, it works, only thing is that you can easily exceed the max threshold number (i.e. 7)

[old lark]

bro send me a team pleeease

[worn tree]

Gotcha

[worn tree]

Haven't finished one dude

[old lark]

when you doo

[ebon dust]

We still don't have team builder in the app? we still have to go to the site to do it? 😦

[old lark]

just saying it again a secondary market for team building/sharing would drive a ton of revenue

[granite echo]

So in order to play a stage 2 illuvial we need three stage 1 illuvials on the board, and when they ascend the stage 1 illuvials will dissapear?

[proven ember]

Please note - this is an unstable and a rush out quick patch. There WILL be bugs, there may even be gamebreaking ones. Balance is likely to be messy. We're interested in feedback on these fundamental changes and the community has been vocal in the past about wanting to see things sooner rather than in a more polished state.

Things we're interested in

Ascension

Hyper

Synergy Calculation Changes

UX/UI

Things we're not interested in.....

Pretty much everything else.

What you'll be playing is something considerably more rough than most games would ever release to the public. This is a bit of a trust experiment, if the community cannot handle such early access to new features and we'll be forced not to release so early in future.

[late lagoon]

is no1 playing yet.. im searching with the first thing i threw together... this could be free elo for you 🙂

[wide aspen]

No, in order to play a stage 2 illuvial, you only need one stage 1 illuvial on the board. Once you ascend the stage 1 illuvial, it will turn into stage 2.

[granite echo]

Ok, thanks for clarifying

[worn tree]

Thanks for the clarification. This is a very important disclaimer. Synergy calculation changes stand for affinities and classes counting even though in composite state?

[proven ember]

correct

[zenith mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/guerra-war-ready-to-fight-gear-up-arnold-schwarzenegger-gif-13809686

[late lagoon]

makes me wish i had a smurf account

[granite echo]

Honestly, i don't know how to feel about this. I mean, if i have in my illuvidex a stage 1 and a stage 2, why can't i play them together?

[late lagoon]

seriously someone play.. take my ranking 🙂

[zenith mortar]

Im coming

did anyone do the tutorial?

[late lagoon]

u cant use nylers team

[zenith mortar]

He hasnt sent me one yet lol

[late lagoon]

thats for noobs... Il do it after i get annihilated

[zenith mortar]

my elo 965 lol

[hot pond]

so right now you cannot use any lynx at all? It keeps saying invalid team if i have a lynx in

[zenith mortar]

i got someone

[late lagoon]

uhoh I hope u dont win

[zenith mortar]

steph11wa

[late lagoon]

im 1716 but I think all the clever people are actually putting thoughts into their teams... its a wory

[proven ember]

if you have a stage 1, stage 2 and stage 3 lynx that are part of the same progression

it should be OK

so Stage 1 Lynx, Stage 2 Fighter Lynx, Stage 3 Earth Fighter Lynx

[west plume]

https://tenor.com/view/station19-maya-bishop-i-wont-let-you-down-sir-i-wont-let-you-down-i-wont-fail-you-gif-25320950

[late lagoon]

oooo can u play 2 stage 3 lynxs or will it think you only had one baby lynx?

[proven ember]

you cannot currently, longer term you will be able to

[late lagoon]

aaah stop the search

so 1 stage 3 lynx in your entire team..

[hot pond]

so 1. grey baby lynx 2. grey stoic lynx 3. I can have multiple stoic lynxes in deck but choose to play one only?

[late lagoon]

thats what im thinking

the lynx army is not the play 😛

[hot pond]

Ah yea, that seems to work now. Just built a team

[late lagoon]

come beat me

[hot pond]

I will defo play on my lower smurf first. There are so many things i need to see ingame

Just threw together the things

[late lagoon]

same but I am a one account man 😦

[west plume]

First feedback from me is that it's a bit buggy and rough around the edges.not sure I can handle this build

[edgy flower]

@wide aspen hey, if im put ramph he is count as additional fire, but do he get bonus as fire or as non fire?

[hot pond]

we can play custom match if you like

[vale coral]

tutorial is looking slick

[late lagoon]

sure il DM

[cursive echo]

https://tenor.com/view/thank-you-update-appreciate-it-laurens-bancroft-james-purefoy-gif-15757272

[vernal forum]

Was just about to post the same thing. The tutorial is a massive win for the team. An absolutely essential onboarding tool and I really like how it looks and the progression so far.

[topaz lake]

As fire

[hot pond]

so whats the thing with more synergies? Composites count towards the non-composites too now?

[wide aspen]

yes

[hot pond]

so spore gives +1 to nature and +1 to air?

[vernal forum]

I think it should just be +1 nature for adorius/adoredo, right?

[wide aspen]

yes, Soda got it right

[hollow citrus]

only V1

[hot pond]

ah the dominant affinity gets added

[worn tree]

Yes

[west plume]

I definitely will do the tutorial 😬

[wide aspen]

So Adorius will have +1 Mystic, +1 Spore, +1 Nature and +1 Empath

[hollow citrus]

I needed help to complete it 😄

[worn tree]

and it also directly benefits from that affinity buff. So spore with dominant nature counts and benefits from that. So nature buff benefits a spore with dominant nature as if it was nature as well. Correct?

[west plume]

Lol

[wide aspen]

Correct

[west plume]

I would not admit that

[worn tree]

Thanks!

[exotic sinew]

In his defence it was designed to be challenging, not a totally brain dead "click here, do that" type thing.

[west plume]

Oh, I might DM you later then😅

[hollow citrus]

You really need to use all mechanics for the last fight!

[west plume]

How long does it take?

[vernal forum]

This is a good idea (although makes deployment more difficult) - it should help new players be better prepared once tutorial is fully completed. I love how you all aim to do things the "right way" instead of the easy way.

[dull wind]

oh wow... Just did one game... What an amazing update!!! We really have an actual game now!

[hot pond]

is there a list of augments somewhere?

[vernal forum]

Yup, I'm also in love with the changes ! I feel that there is so much potential, so many possible builds, I don't even know where to start

[vernal forum]

Same, but I do subscribe to KISS - keep it simple stupid - so for a game like Illuvium, I like to start with the linear builds first. So, 7 empath, 7 psions, 7 fighters, 6 rogues, etc and then 7 water, 7 air, etc. then I'll check single carries like maybe 7 fire with a rhamphyre carry progressively getting more complex as I get an understanding of what I believe to be strong - have potential.

[vague karma]

i'm highly anticipated to test the new changes

[edgy flower]

@wide aspen should be bug. when i recell unit i just place it still cost me something

[topaz lake]

Did you ascend a unit and then recall it?

[edgy flower]

(after im upgrade it)

yep

[topaz lake]

If you recall, the fee is applied for the ascended unit (75%), but it's not displayed.

[hollow citrus]

I'd say 20-25m

[topaz lake]

and if you place it again, it will cost the full amount. I assume you placed the S1 unit in i.e. R1 and ascended in a different round, then recalled it, right?

[edgy flower]

no,i place at 1 round unit, uprgade it, then decide to make diff turn and sell him, but still lose money

[vague karma]

that's a big change on playtime

[hollow citrus]

We're talking about the tutorial

[topaz lake]

Well, yes, the recall fee is applied

[worn tree]

Question, a ranger with fighter weapon bonded to a psion counts as basic affinity as fighter or psion?

[edgy flower]

btw my umra cost is 45 + 20 + 45(!)

so its 110 now??

[sacred finch]

Now we have a game 🙏
For the 2 matches i played so far it seems that after a few rounds we have too many mastery points, even runing an expensive team and don't wasting any evolve tokens

[vague karma]

oh ok

[lavish orchid]

empath again?

someone can send a link for a team in dm please?

[topaz lake]

Example: Place Atlas (30) in R1, ascend to Axon in R2 (-10MP for the ascension), recall Axon (gives back 75% of 40MP - the cost of Axon)

if you place Atlas again, it costs you 30 MP, and if you ascend (10 MP)

[worn tree]

Good info. Thanks!

A ranger with fighter weapon bonded to a psion counts towards fighter or psion as basic affinity?

[sacred finch]

always the weapon

unless it has no weapon

[topaz lake]

Fighter, the weapon class/affinity are the dominants for the ranger

[worn tree]

Ok, thanks

[fair hemlock]

loving the new tutorial battle music (or maybe i just never heard it before)! This image is quite blurry and doesn't help when depicting the energy bar. It now does shine a bit but it's difficult to see what you are focussing on at first glance. Could be a bit more obvious. Naturally, when the units start fighting it does become obvious.

[worn tree]

Thanks ❤️

[exotic sinew]

Yeah couple of edge cases to iron out with the highlighting and background blur, we're on it 🙂

[edgy flower]

Example of my situation: Place little umbra (45) in R1, ascend to middle umbrain R1 (-20MP for the ascension), recall middle umbra in R1 (gives back 75% of 45MP - the cost of little umbra). AND last upgrate cost is wrong. it should be 25, but it 45!!!!!

[lavish orchid]

does someone have a team?

[sacred finch]

Now that you said, I just realized that when ascending to stage 3 we are always paying the cost of stage 3 - 1 instead of 3-2

but stage costs probably needs a rework anyway, it would be too cheap just paying the difference

[midnight comet]

Love the new UI on illuvials when you select them

clean

[edgy flower]

not on every unit i guess

ramph is fine

[topaz lake]

It's 75% of the middle thylacine (rake), not dash (s1). So it's 75% of 65MP, not 45. It will clear once we fix the UI issue 🫡

[edgy flower]

why i pay anything if im just recall it at raound im place it (so enemy not even see that i did this)

[sacred finch]

adorius, scoriox and phosporus have this issue, i think the rest of my team had it too, i will check later when I play again

[zenith bough]

I don't think singe can be upgraded 😦 my fav character

[topaz lake]

For Umbre (S3), that's a UI bug, which you can report. It doesn't actually cost 45, it's just displayed wrongly (it's the difference between S1 and S3, not S2 and S3)

[fair hemlock]

i had a sear in the tutorial though 👀

[edgy flower]

but i cant play umbra for tunrs 1-2 coz UI doesnt allow me to

[alpine dagger]

Loool so much info for dev team 😄

Is it bttter to do in game bug report pressing B

[wicked cloak]

Haven’t been able to play yet, how’s the update feel?

[raven obsidian]

so when upgrading your unit through stages, is it normal for you to carry over your affinities? e.g. flare is fire bulwark... upgrade it to sear = magma / behemoth... you still keep the bulwark and fire synergies?

[edgy flower]

its new game, and randomness is good, but bugs and 0 understanding

[vale coral]

i played vs viper so got killed. but my one game seemed fun

[rancid raptor]

They do now, yes

[wicked cloak]

How’s the game feel with this update?

[raven obsidian]

is it supposed to be like that or bug?

[worn tree]

About to do my first game sir, gimme a sec. I will compile my feedback brother

[rancid raptor]

They changed it, it's supposed to be like that now

[dark vine]

isn't there a undo button anymore? Just sold an upgraded Illuvial by accident >.<

[late lagoon]

Well this is a brand new game…

[rancid raptor]

They removed it temporarily

[wicked cloak]

Sweet thanks

[raven obsidian]

where is it on the patch notes? am i being blind?

[edgy flower]

announsment

[lavish orchid]

someone can send a team please?

[frigid wharf]

do you have sear in the team ?

[edgy flower]

u have 3 basic team

[fair hemlock]

interesting that all Illuvials now have the width of their stage 3 form! just checked that out. good stuff 😄

[raven obsidian]

im asking about the changes to the affinities being carried over through upgrading your illuvials within the patch notes

not where the patch notes are

[zenith bough]

Would be funny if I didn't

[zenith bough]

No

I don't

[edgy flower]

@frigid wharfcan we have full list of new augments?

[lavish orchid]

?

[zenith bough]

It starts with:
They are,
And end with:
awesome

[edgy flower]

not all, but i want to know what my opp can get so

[west musk]

I’m not home rn to play… but curious initial thoughts. How does gameplay feel?

[stray gull]

arena.illuvium.io/team-builder/012ad34c-754c-4b87-9c81-4767f1713a1f

It's a nothing team, but it will allow you to get in and play.

[frigid wharf]

@zenith mortar

[zenith mortar]

Yes ser

[topaz lake]

Nope sir

[zenith mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/okay-yes-but-no-ray-schitts-creek-yes-but-no-its-a-no-gif-20763197

[proven ember]

We could post the list but where is the fun of finding them out and discovery.

So you'll have to wait, we'll post in a week.

[gritty wren]

How is the new mode?

[proven ember]

terrible.

[zenith mortar]

I'm rank 1

[proven ember]

awful

[zenith mortar]

so pretty good

[proven ember]

what were they all thinking

[edgy flower]

why we dont get back our upgraid chips when we sell upgraded one?

[proven ember]

fire the lot of them

[zenith mortar]

me first

[topaz lake]

Post proof???

[gritty wren]

Im Home in 1h i play all night

[stray gull]

You receive a evo chip back if you sell a Stage 3

[proven ember]

too easy to pivot to completely different comps

you get 1 back from a stage 3 recall.

[gritty wren]

Congrats

[zenith mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/bow-doug-judy-brooklyn-nine-nine-thank-you-thanks-gif-22899570

[topaz lake]

yep, not fake, gg

[edgy flower]

i need a button that will bring all stages when i build a deck by only stage 1

[proven ember]

Its what will happen, just with the speed of release the feature didn't make the deadline

[edgy flower]

just give a feed back : )

[pine steeple]

is the team builder bugged?

[proven ember]

Longer term we'll have you team build via the line in Ascendant 🙂

[proven ember]

appreciate it!

[edgy flower]

btw 50 is 2 much, at least for day1 of deckbuilding xd

[zenith mortar]

It got reset for new mechanic if thats what your wondering: #📣〕announcements

[topaz lake]

You can select the S3 and bring all stages in the meantime.

[edgy flower]

yes, but how i suppose to count to 8 units on board? xd

[wide aspen]

If you think about it, you now use about 3x more illuvials than you did in the past (in the past you used only stage3, now you have to add all stages). That's why we raised the number. For 8 Stage3 Illuvails, you now need 24 cards.

[topaz lake]

I mean in the team builder

[edgy flower]

and im too talk about it, when i deckbuilding i want to know how much units for board i have now

[edgy flower]

ye, maybe we just need to carry 2 deck in 1, then it will be ~50 card

[pine steeple]

i thought it was bugged, cuz i lost all my decks

ill read the patch now, ty

they nerfed my deck 😦

[vivid stirrup]

u called it 😄

[mighty tulip]

What's the verdict guys? Everyone enjoying the new PvP? I've not had chance to play yet

[west plume]

Has the rank system been reset with this update?

https://tenor.com/view/fingers-crossed-excited-hopeful-please-hope-gif-14770102

[mighty tulip]

Nah not yet

[hot pond]

So do the composite affinity illuvials also get buffed from the normal affinities? So do invokers get the bonus from psion traits?

[wide aspen]

Yes, they do

[hot pond]

Was there any change in the MP per round? It kinda feels like there are more points available

[wide aspen]

There was no change - and this is exactly why you feel like there are more points. Augments are now free, and Ascension smoothed out the game progression, leaving you with spare MP

[lavish orchid]

i mean a team for this patch

[hot pond]

Yea augments costing nothing definitely leaves a lot more MP. Can be pretty good for more positioning changes etc 😊

[lavish orchid]

someone have a team for this meta?

[lilac grail]

noob question. a berserker now give berserker + fighter.
But does the berserker unit gain the bonus from fighter full ? or as before ?.

[wraith jay]

Just found a bug in the tutorial
i was able to place a greater aapon next to my lesser aapon instead of evolving it and it visually deleted my other illuvials.
not really sure what i did exactly to get there.
(how can i show the screenshot here?)
@vague storm
update if you play tutorial 5 and you sell the exalted aapon then you can place the greater aapon next to your lesser aapon!

[wide aspen]

As the berserker is now considered a fighter as well, it fully receives the fighter bonus, along with the berserker bonus

[west plume]

How is everyone enjoying the new Mode? I will be able to play in a couple of hours.

[lament frigate]

Tutorial is great!

Exactly what's needed to bring in new people and keep them coming back.

[west plume]

Ser,thats going to hurt my Ilv rewards

[lament frigate]

How can this be understood?

[wraith jay]

more people coming in less (easy) chance of getting rewards 😉

[lament frigate]

Oh gotcha.

Well it's a good reason to simply improve yourself in the game - what helps the econ as well.

[wraith jay]

totally agree with you there 😄

[past mica]

this tutorial is SO AWESOME!!! well done! SO NEEDED!

[lament frigate]

Great to see that the feedback has put in the game so quickly!

[vivid stirrup]

anyone else get an error when trying to save team in teambuilder?

[worn tree]

Refresh page, this means you have been to long without saving.

[edgy flower]

he know how to play more then 1 lynx, but still weak for testing decks

[vivid stirrup]

lets see how fast it evolves 😛

new teambuilder feels amazing, with automatically adding all units from a line and no augments it is so much faster than the old one even tho the decks are double the size ^^
also feels more intuitive and more fun to try out stuff and play around with it

[wicked cloak]

@worn tree whats the scoop

[worn tree]

Just was about provide it. I have played 5 games and I am ready for some feedback 🙂

[wicked cloak]

Alright sweet

[alpine dagger]

Hope you practiced well i am coming soon 😄

[wraith jay]

can someone help me pls:
if i use an axon now it will always be bulwark dominant?
so in order to make a harbinger with an axon my ranger needs to be psion?
does a harbinger always just count as a bulwark or is it also a psion (bonuswise)?

[vivid stirrup]

yes

[zealous vortex]

bug, posted bug report

[vivid stirrup]

axodon will always be bulwark water dominant because it's stage one - atlas is bulwark water.

this aims to reduce complexity

[wraith jay]

thanks paz 😄

[vivid stirrup]

ranger could also be bulwark if u bond with some other psion water ^^

[wraith jay]

ya but it takes out something i was wondering for overworld when fusing illuvials 😉

i think its much better

[vivid stirrup]

ye, i think the new rule is they will always be dominant with what their stage1 is. im sad squizz is air and not fire tho 😛

[wraith jay]

ya i didn't manage to get through all these illuvial changes and what you can or can't do now, but i just wait till you explain it in a video 😄

[warped basalt]

Before, the game was random in many situations, now it is the most random possible, you can positioning your illuvial to infinity. and a match lasts even 10 minutes or more...😑

[vivid stirrup]

https://youtu.be/-H9ygzaNU_E

way ahead of you 😄

but i missed a lot tbh, gonna do a video after some practising tmrw morning

[wraith jay]

na seen that one already

😄

[karmic token]

Exactly, I thought I would like the new mode, but it seems not..

[vivid stirrup]

ye its no insights just a rundown

after i posted my game was downloaded i played one round and was like, damn i kinda need to make another one right away 😄

rly happy there is a lot of stuff to make content around again, and i dont have to pull it out of my ass 😛

[wraith jay]

relax write everything you don't like about it, its an improvement stage.. meaning they wanna know exactly what is good or bad about it

[vivid stirrup]

like how do i make playing the 1000x playing dust rev interesting for viewers.. 😛

[vivid stirrup]

i like that the games are a bit longer, and that we have some more room for positioning personally

but ima play it some days before writing any real feedback 😄 the amount that changed is overwhelming. it feels like a new game

[proven ember]

Was debated internally, but since Squid are water based. Certain people objected to fire 😄

[vivid stirrup]

a shock feels closer to a burn than to wind i would argue 😄 but fair 😛

[vivid stirrup]

mainly sad about it cause it woulda been a nice dmg boost for it, as fire dominant ophisto would be getting full fire affinity boost? or is that a bug atm

[wraith jay]

well its an air and fire squid ... where is the water anyway?

[vivid stirrup]

squids live in water ^^

https://tenor.com/view/wake-up-to-reality-frank-sinatra-ive-got-you-under-my-skin-wake-up-be-real-gif-18082484

[hoary mason]

Whats the point system?

[wraith jay]

😄

[hoary mason]

How many points do i get per round

[vivid stirrup]

100-120-140-160

[proven ember]

We had an issue IIRC with finding enough shock based creatures. Stingray, Electric Eel were vetoed for a variety of reasons

[hoary mason]

So its the same it didn't change

[proven ember]

same with wildfire and some of the more eclectic synergies

some critters are more simple than others 😄

But Squizz as shock is iconic. It looks incredible when it raises its tentacles and brings down the lightning

[worn tree]

This new game mode is definitely a good step towards what we want. There are plenty of things to be polished, and that is obvious as the team has clearly stated that current game status is in DEV-STA environment rather actual PRO. We are lucky to have a DAO that listens to our queries and they are lucky to have us to provide feedback.

Focusing first on what mister Ben Nietzsche regards as relevant:

Ascension:

The concept is great and it is actually the core change in the game mode stategy. I think it feels great from a gameplay perspective although much tweaks should be made to release its full potential and actually make it make sense. Right now the solution proposed by the team that illuvials hex rad is the one as stage 3 for all stages feels weird and is not a perfect decision. I know they have made that as evolving to further stages would bring an issue as hex rad gets bigger and maybe the illuvial doesnt fit anymore. They chose this approach and I think is inconsistent UX/UI wise, and also it kills the beauty of small illuvials, which allow for clusters that biggy ones don't. I much more rather prefer to have scaling radius that fits illuvial dimensions and whenver that illuvial is ascended, it can be moved again for free (which by the way, this is what currently happens as there is a bug that allows you to move the illuvial for free the round it is ascended).

Augments:

Augments have no cost anymore and they feel much more like tft items. This is a great step in terms of game variability that we were clearly missing before. We are not there yet in terms of game variability factors, but clearly a nice step towards it. We need more of this to prevent the game to be fully copiable (which is what has been happening so far, people just copy each other until everyone ends up playing exactly the same decks and doing same actions each turn). Implementing game variability factors like the new basic augments system on top of legendary augment system is nice and much needed.

However, since augments don't cost anything, around rounds 5-6 you start having way to much spare mastery points and you can't ascend illuvials because tokens are missing. This should be adjusted as the "mana" curve is no longer aligned with the usable resources. Many solutions to this issue...

Hyper:

Hyper is by far the best implementation in the mode. It gives oxigen to the game design team in terms of balance, as even the most ridiculous champ (rha, and yes, I will get into that later) which has no natural counter, at least can be countered by hyper.

Hyper feels great, it definitely changes the meta as everyone will soon be playing around it. It's impact is no longer neglectable and this enriches the game and its progression among rounds.

SCC (which stands for how dominant affinities count towards synergy and also how now a composite class directly benefits from its sub synergies):

Not much to comment on this, it allows for more active synergies at the same time. Overall it's good as players like it when more shit is going on. I also want the highlight the simplicity of reducing illuvial branches to the dominant class and affinity. Much simpler for new starters. Maybe it's worse for high competitive gameplay but hey, it's hard to make everyone happy and I am sure other solutions can make up for this loss.

UX/UI:

A lot of stuff here to work on, pretty sure anything I will say the team is already aware of, but here it goes:

-All menus (lobby, team builder, start of the game, in-game, etc.) the deck should not display illuvials on it's own but the entire illuvial line. And if an illuvial is missing, apply visual effect such as shadow to clarify it is not run on the deck.

-Hyper bar could still be improved imo and at max hyper smthing should happen visually as hyper now is a major milestone.

I don't think I can provide any additional relevant stuff in the UX/UI stuff right now.

Bugs:

Basic augment selection timer sometimes is fake.

Sometimes stage 3 ascension shows the cost gap between 1-3 isntead of 2-3, this avoids the player to actually ascend the illuvial even though he has the needed MP.

Round 1 and 2 augments consistently appear on the deck even though they are placed on illuvials.

Hyper bug, sometimes at max hyper or when enemies step out of hyper activity range, the hyper bar disappears.

---

Non-DAO relevant stuf:

Rha is still ridiculously broken. The only way to counter it is with hyper and soon a strategy to prevent enemy hyper will be found. If you remove hyper, there is not a single comp that consistently wins rha. This is a major issue that has been taking place ever since the energy constant was switched. Inferno still fits a bit too strong maybe 1.5-2-2.5% is the right balance. However, what makes rha so strong and uncontestable it's its ability to gather omega energy before getting killed.

---

Sorry for typos and badly phrased sentences.

[wraith jay]

hey i was just messing around, totally love every aspect of the game, totally bullish - i mean cardulox on the game 😉

[proven ember]

Hyper now has a VFX that that triggers on every character that is hyper. Is that not showing?

big olde golden glow

[vivid stirrup]

very caradulox indeed 🤣

[worn tree]

Need to double check that as at least I didn't notice it :S

[proven ember]

What it should look like - golden ring

https://tenor.com/view/my-precious-gollum-lotr-rings-gif-26678083

[worn tree]

Does playing with lower quality graphics affect on this?

Definitely did not notice this, and it's pretty noticeable

[quasi sage]

https://tenor.com/view/one-ring-them-all-lotr-gif-14729828

[worn tree]

https://tenor.com/view/gandalf-ian-mc-kellen-lotr-the-lord-of-the-rings-smile-gif-17361644

[zealous vortex]

beginner level AI is too good, it's recking me

[quasi sage]

Can’t wait to leave work to try out this cool new game mode. Seems there will be loads more diversity and less complexity to build a team at first.

[past mica]

I believe it's learning in real time

[quasi sage]

https://tenor.com/view/viva-la-dirt-league-vldl-souls-logic-dark-souls-git-gud-gif-19856700

[zealous vortex]

it's learning too well 😅

[worn tree]

@wicked cloak fyi sir 😄

[past mica]

What are these?

the gold up arrows

[west plume]

every fibre in my body says i should do this first....

[worn tree]

It means how fast hyper will incrase

[zenith mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-get-to-work-gif-21630516

[past mica]

I'm on the final stage, it's been SO AWESOME

[past mica]

Ok thanks, is 3 the max?

[worn tree]

Visually, yes, but not mathematically wise

[past mica]

and it's based on which enemies I put it next to?

[hollow citrus]

Not real time you don’t see the improvement / changes immediately

[worn tree]

the cap is 18

[past mica]

Can it change during combat as it moves to other enemies?

[hollow citrus]

That’s not the tutorial 😀

[worn tree]

Yes, you can have 9 enemies applying 2x on you illuvial. Say you have 9 enemy water illuvials and you have 1 air illuvial in hyper range, you have 18x factor towards hyper

Since you can't have more than 9 enemies and 2x factor, 18 is the cap

[west plume]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-surprised-shocked-oh-my-god-gif-15440994307613885016

[wicked cloak]

yup got it, very good analysis i think, about to hop into my first game, thanks!

[worn tree]

Hahahahahah Yeah man! ❤️

[past mica]

Ok thank you and as they move around the board, does the value change?

[worn tree]

Good luck, let me know your thoughts as well please! 🙂

[west plume]

should be fine...iam a Pro Jeremy

[zealous vortex]

this version is definitely buggier, just had a twine in play and a twine in my cards as well

[worn tree]

Yes yes, hyper has like an active radius I think exactly the same as rha omega. I think it's 40 hexes. Anything outside of 40 hexes does not count towards hyper

For every illuvial that is

So yeah, it changes with positioning

[past mica]

Wow I just got like 10% better thanks. So I dont always want to put fliish as far away as possible, if I have a hyper range opportunity I might position him differently now...

[worn tree]

Exactly!!!

[mighty tulip]

I did an AI casual first.

[zealous vortex]

the ascend tokens make choosing which illuvial to evolve really difficult!

[hot pond]

Just evolve your rhamphyre

[fluid lagoon]

Yeah it's a very good addition - especially for new players

[wicked cloak]

will do

[raven obsidian]

press B in game to report 🙂

[zealous vortex]

I did, no worries, Just posted it here as it probably gets picked up here faster

[raven obsidian]

is there a way to play 2 lynxes from same affiniity but different class? e.g. Stoic fire lynx and a Arcane Fire lynx?

[west plume]

Nailed it

[vivid stirrup]

at the moment i think you can only play one lynx in total as we cannot bring more than one basic lynx. this gonna be fixxed ben said

[worn tree]

Thx for this. The way illuvials are ascended in terms of UX/UI doesn't feel triple AAA right now.

[fluid lagoon]

What is 10% Health Execution? (on combat start)

It acts something like at 10% health for the enemy the next attack executes him?

[vivid stirrup]

if the hyperactive rogue does dmg to a unit at or below 10%hp it instantly kills it

[fluid lagoon]

So i found that in a augment .. maybe it should be mentioned it procs only at hyper.. or actually i'm not sure if it works only IF the unit has hyper activated

[vivid stirrup]

oh i thought u were talking about rogue hyper, they have that effect now

[fluid lagoon]

Nope 🙂

[vivid stirrup]

if it's in an augment, same thing just always

[fluid lagoon]

It was an augment - Bloodlust ... something 😄 .. i ended the match already

[west quartz]

does anyone know the conversion rate when we over cap in Attack speed and it gets converted to attack damage ?

[junior geyser]

Havent back read but ive experienced a huge bug where when recalling a stage 3, i cannot replace the stage 1 onto field

[junior geyser]

@unkempt cypress

[unkempt cypress]

Combo haha

how the fuck did you turn that arround hahaha

[junior geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/ez-yann-gauthier-gif-18979624

[unkempt cypress]

I love your PFP it's insane!!

[faint ibex]

Spore Revenant still rocks! 🙂 Any ideas how to counter it?

[lilac grail]

There is a bug with the amount master point cost.
To upgrade rhamphite to rhamphyre. it should be 30.
It show 50.
You can't upgrade if you don't have 50. but if you have it. you place rhamphyre. it reduce only 30. and you have 20 left.

[vernal forum]

Just looking for a clarification on an issue I've been seeing... nm @lilac grail beat me to it.

same issue with Jotun... I'm curious which is the intention - 50 cost final upgrade or 30?

[unkempt cypress]

Have to say I love the new game mode after some games.
A bit random with the augments this is why I lost to @junior geyser couple of times but other than that very fun 😉

[alpine dagger]

Lets play 😄

@worn tree wanna try me out

?

[worn tree]

I am with my smurf at +1700, let's queue together!!

[worn tree]

I will anihilate you brother ❤️ Hahahaha

[alpine dagger]

Doing tutorial rn, and rolling some broccoli 🥦

I will match you soon

I jad very good team build up in theory cant wait to test out if its working 😄

[worn tree]

Let me know brother

[proven coral]

Electric Bee line.

[vale lantern]

Can we just use one stage 3 Lynx now?

[wraith jay]

Little feedback here:
burger menu improvement!
i need to be able to see all my illuvials and their hyper status, doesn't make sense if i cant scroll down to see my last illuvials hyper stage in combat.
same for affinities, a simple "+2" without being able to see what the +2 is exactly (and if it is just a single unit or maybe 2 and one more would complete the set of 3 for a bonus), is frustrating (or at least costs a lot of time figuring out) especially now that it is a new meta(or if you are a new player)
also:
if there is a chance to scroll down or see the +something illuvials at the affinity and hyper menu pls let me know 😄

[wraith jay]

good question !
i would also like to know how to play multiple lynx

[west plume]

the new mode is alot of fun,having a blast.and requires alot more strategies.

[open ibex]

btw where did the "Undo" go?

[fallen vortex]

50 cards now lol?

[wraith jay]

it hopefully just got lost temporarily 🤣
I want it back !! pls!!

[fluid lagoon]

Yep 100% .. also love that the pacing seems to have slowed down a bit.. i'd love it to go down even more

[hollow citrus]

disabled for now it was causing a few issues

[pastel plank]

wow

so much changes

50 cards seem like too much

[cedar cloak]

Yu-Gi-Oh had also between 40-60 cards.

[wicked cloak]

temporarily removed

[fallen vortex]

They had thousands to choose from

Its 30%+ of our options lol

[reef basalt]

We'll prioritize updating this considering the major revamp of arena.

But the listing of teams should still be workable. We'll be on the lookout for the new meta!

[dull wind]

it seems but it's not

really good upgrade on the game

[fallen vortex]

Wait how will u place multiple lynx? Can u drop infinite stage 1 lynx on the board?

Anyone streaming? I wanna see the new patch

[south glacier]

You can only place 1 lynx atm. But will be changed to 3 in the future.

[south glacier]

It is not that much. If you want 10 Illuvials and be able to play all stages that is already 30 cards in your deck. Then you need some weapons and armours too. Maybe now the different stages of the weapons will be used instead of only 10 MP and 70 Mp ones

[fallen vortex]

What about when he upgrades to stage 2?

[serene lance]

Someone summaries the new update for me simply?

[south glacier]

Atm you can only put every illuvial line in your deck only once. Which doesn't work for lynx as you can only put 1 basic lynx in it. When you ascend it to stage 2 and then stage 3 it stays at stage 2/3. So you are unable to put another basic lynx on the board to get another stage2/3 lynx. This will be fixed by allowing up to 3 basic lynx in your team in the future. When your illuvial ascends you "loose" your previous stage in your deck

[dull wind]

10+ winning streak and no bonus rating, feels bad

[south glacier]

https://illuvium.io/news/ascendant-arena-ascension-update

This is basically the summary. The game mechanic changed. So it's hard to summarize it in 2 sentences

[worn tree]

Has hyper area been increased?

[junior geyser]

Great work on the new game mode team! I am honestly super impressed with all the updates. Faith entirely restored. - a novice

[serene lance]

Yo these new changes sound really cool, keen to get home and play.

[fallen vortex]

Changed, but overall a huge buff

Psions can essentially triple their omega power on max hyper

Like if ur ophisto goes hyper its literally game over

Btw can you choose which hyper class? I forget

Or its also based on stage 1

Fighter also gets 60% piercing on max hyper which is huge for the game imo

[edgy bough]

😮‍💨 I hope u have Komodo line in ur deck 🍃

[wraith jay]

i can't really protect a psion unit in the corner (unless empaths surround it) because the "placing area" is huge for all units and rogues just jump in and delete my backline

[fallen vortex]

Im glad they fixed the ability to abuse rogues with tight packing tbh

I always thought that was silly

[young wagon]

I have played a few games, and although it is obviously early, I think the game still has the same problem, it isnt a game to play, it is a game to study. People are going to do the same thing again, they are going to copy a deck that is broken from the internet, they are going to copy the optimal order to play the illuvials, and without making absolutely any effort they are going to have very optimal plays and it is going to be difficult to beat them .I wouldn't even consider that to play, it's copying something and doing the same thing all the time. And if you want to be good, you are going to have to do the same, study the order to play a deck and the most optimal plays. I don't think augments really changes anything or almost anything, it adds some RNG but that's it, in the best of cases you can change the play of a turn depending of the augments you have but that's it. This is not a game to play, it's a game to study, so it's not very fun, and as long as you continue to have access to your entire deck from the beginning I think it will continue to be that way. I really like these types of games and I'm usually very good at them, And this game, far from making me want to play it, makes me very lazy, and if I, who am the target audience of a game like this, think that, then something is being done wrong, and that something again is that this is a game about studying, not playing, and that's not fun. Furthermore, in chess the game is always the same, at least studying movements and situations is useful in the long term. Here you learn how to play a deck, a patch comes out and that knowledge is no longer useful, and you have to re-study the play orders of a new deck... not even I, who love building decks, find fun that dynamic.

[fallen vortex]

What about Hyper? You'd have to adjust pretty considerably against the hyper matchups no?

[reef basalt]

Not saying youre wrong about its a game to study but tbh, thats what most CCGs and even autobattlers are. Thats the appeal of it. Youre learning new metas, countering meta, etc.

Most CCGs and even autobattlers shine when theres multiple viable teams. I think the problem now is that were bottlenecked to a handful of teams that people are just copying.

[fallen vortex]

That sums it up well. But even things like Hearthstone have multiple viable Mage teams, instead of playing the same 30 cards if u r mage, we haven't fixed that yet, but I think its just based on available options

If we had 300 cards then I suspect itd be a different story

[tribal glade]

feedback on the tutorial experience?

[serene lance]

Having the rest of the illuvials released will make a big difference

[fallen vortex]

For sure, it enables 3-4 synergies that are forced into a ranger bond rn. Which opens up at least a dozen new combinations

[wraith jay]

can't find any matches???
nobody playing atm?

@fallen vortex wanna play a game?

[fallen vortex]

I wish, I am at work, will be home tomorrow night

[wraith jay]

😄 oh i see
no worries m8, have fun at work 😉

[young wagon]

In card games your hand and draws are random, you cannot study the optimal orders of plays because the number of variables are infinite, In the best of cases you can study someone, but that's it. In a game like that you learn how to play a deck by playing the game, and you learn which cards work well by playing the game. You can copy a deck but that does not ensure that you will play it well, because you do not have all the cards from the beginning so you cannot make the same plays every game. In autochess something similar, you can study which compositions are good, but the pieces you get are random, so you have to adapt to what they give you which makes each game different, very few games do you get that optimal composition, and getting there can be a different challenge in each game. In a game like illuvium where you have all the illuvials, you simply study what the optimal move is and that's it, in the worst case you have to study some variants to beat those decks that counter you in some way and that's it, it's a game of studying what the optimal play is in a certain situation and doing the same thing all the time.. If you have played chess you will know that the first moves are usually always the same, previously studied moves that are known to be the best. It happens that after a certain number of moves the player can no longer study all the variables and that is when the game really begins. In illuvium this does not happen, the game simply ends. Having all the illuvials from the beginning also makes balancing very complicated, because everyone has a broken deck and can play it in the most optimal way possible. In chess, studying all those moves is useful in the long term, since the game is always the same.

In games like illuvium you study the optimal plays of a deck, which is what you have to do if you are waiting to be good, a patch appears, that deck is no longer viable, and you have to study another deck again... I like to create decks, but in this game that does not consist of playing games while you change cards and see how it works, it consists of studying which Illuvials you are going to play each turn and in what order, seeing if those combinations really manage to win and if not, studying yourself beforehand others that may be more optimal and beat the rival... it makes me lazy just thinking about it, but that's what this game consists of. You can say I'm wrong, but even though it gives rewards and is free, very few people play it, and it doesn't surprise me, even I, who love these types of games, find it boring. And the problem is not with the game itself, the illuvials, mechanics, synergies, etc., are fine, the problem is the game mode, and I don't think that will change until the game stops being a game of study and passes to be a game to play. Just my opinion.

[reef basalt]

Sounds like the game needs more random/variance. Which is my personal opinion what we need as well.

[supple beacon]

Is the leaderboard not updating?

[grand bluff]

Is there a list of the new augments?

[mental gazelle]

any build guys ?

[fallen vortex]

You're not wrong 🤣 . Especially with the part where TfT has large amounts of randomness in what cards you draw

[vernal forum]

I really enjoyed it and feel that it's exactly what the game needs for a pleasant onboarding experience. So far, it's the best part of the update for me. Not a knock on anything, I just feel it's that important and was very well executed.

[grand bluff]

I tried it and liked it. Now I feel like there's an introduction to new players.

[fallen vortex]

Do any augments cost mastery now?

[stray gull]

No sir

[fallen vortex]

Niceee

How u been Nick?

[junior geyser]

why leaderboard no update?

[stray gull]

We're good, big things inc

[twilit storm]

We have some issue while in the match..happens too much frequently...you click ready...for example..round 4..and infinite waiting..you alt f4 relog..get back into the match...ready...infinite wait again...

happened to me and other guys while we were on discord chatting bout the stunning new mode

[fallen vortex]

Love to hear it, cant wait!

[solemn tundra]

I am a complete novice to auto battlers, so I enjoyed the tutorial a lot.

But I have a hard time figuring out why I lost or won a battle. Once it starts, there is a lot going on, that I just can't follow quick enough.

As a novice I would love to just watch the battle again in replay, learn from it, make some changes and then start a battle with the same opponent configuration again. By keeping the opponents side of the board the same, and just changing my side of the board until I can win or give up, the learning effect would be great.

Just watching the battle again in 3D from different angles would also be a lot of fun and would showcase the Illuvials and the VFX much better.

It could even be a game mode for beginners: Basically each player would have a chance for a second or third try at the same opponent board.

[random sluice]

Not sure if its been mentioned but theres a typo in the tutorial "That's a Figher Class Synergy" - when going through augments

[olive hedge]

Leaderboard has been paused, unless I am mistaken

[olive hedge]

Would be cool if there is an advanced tutorial like this. The tutorial could even tell you what you did wrong, ie you should have placed an Illuvial here and not there etc

[vast nymph]

Going to try out the new arena in a bit. You guys stealth dropped it and don’t think many are aware yet😆

[scarlet spindle]

Wow it does send my brain into a frenzy at times trying to unlearn and newlearn, but I am really enjoying it. The tutorial is pretty nice too!

[noble radish]

Sorry about the “unlearn” stuff. But it is part of the process. All the feedback is good though. We put this one out when it wasn’t super polished just to get feedback quickly and see if the direction is right.

Feedback so far seems like what we expected and will give us confidence that the next updates we do will be the last required to get it going well.

[solemn tundra]

Maybe you could activate a few such hints/jokers during normal game play? Anything that removes frustration and friction especially early on in your learning phase will keep players engaged.

[mighty tulip]

I tried it out after playing a few ranked games. It's really good. I can see it really helping with onboarding new players

[serene lance]

No way people are already using the same/similar deck.

[hot pond]

I did 2 test matches yesterday, there’s still no change to rhamphyre in my opinion. You can still slap him on and turn into inferno revenant late game.
Is there an untargetable / indomitable augment available now? If so, then you can slap that on against behemoths/fighters again.

BTW, I am not sure the whole ascension thing is changing that much other than full comp swaps. Previously you could play rhamphyre in R2 already, which is possible now again. The only thing that went away is that you don’t have the dust slayer opening anymore, but nerfing dust basically buffed rhamphyre again - there’s also no need for immune augment anymore.
I haven’t seen many augments of the list, but to me it feels like the same build with just some RNG added depending on which of the good rhamphyre augments you get each round

[edgy flower]

We have rewards this week, so what the point of testing if u can be 1st who steal strong deck and use it xd

[serene lance]

mm

[unkempt cypress]

Very good point about rewatching battles to improve

[low comet]

I like the new tutorial concept so I won't need to hard coach my friends when i teach them

[solemn tundra]

For older guys like me a slow motion would also be helpful 🙂 And maybe the Illuvials on the board could output some chat/text messages to tell me what they are doing at the moment. Almost like a debug log for me to investigate what went wrong 🙂

[worldly token]

I do agree it is sometimes hard to tell why you lost. Even having a look at the last board would help analyzing the last round and synergies etc. , but currently you cannot see anything after the round is over

[solemn tundra]

This brings me to another suggestion: The health and energy bars on top of the Illuvials confuse me, mostly because they obviously keep moving around and hide other Illuvials.

Would it be possible to have mine and the opponents Illuvial cards show below the battle board instead of hiding them during the battle and display this information (instead of the ones actively fighting on the battle board) ?

The cards of the Illuvials currently fighting each other could be visually grouped together to make it even more obvious what is happening on the battle board.

It would make the fight look so much more cinematic and I could follow the stats of the Illuvials fighting each other much better by looking at the cards instead of just on the battle board.

It would also lend itself nicely to a future mobile version where we might not have the real estate to show all the information on a 3D battle board. On my MacBook 14 the screen size doesn't allow for great insight into the battle board.

Huge kudos to the team by the way. It is the first time I am actually motivated to play Arena and I am enjoying the tutorial experience so far.

[ebon pagoda]

is it true that now u need 13 illuvials to use the 3 stages?

[unkempt cypress]

Really appreciate you in this community you bring a lot of value, thank you!

[ebon pagoda]

it used to be 1 illuvials
then, 9 illuvials
now, 13 illuvials?

Stage 1 : 1
Stage 2 : 3
Stage 3 : 9
13 right?

[proven coral]

https://tenor.com/view/frodo-secrets-keep-your-secrets-gif-13114821

[solemn tundra]

It is a great community. Thank you.

[stray gull]

@scarlet spindle ggs, huge comeback there 😉

[scarlet spindle]

I seem to have had my pockets picked for a fair bag 'o points there! lol nice work 🔥

[serene lance]

3 tier 1 merge into 1 tier 2
3 tier 2 merge in 1 tier 3
So 3x3 = 9

Same as tft, 9x base illuvial to get one tier 3

[ebon pagoda]

dont u need the tier 1 and tier 2 as well in your deck?

[serene lance]

Oh youre meaning to use it in ascendent. Then yeah 13 my bad.

More demand for illuvials on marketplace then ggez

[ebon pagoda]

not sure thats a good thing

it could increase the cost of entry

[turbid osprey]

They still havent set the costs, spawnrates, etc so it wont change the price they were and are aiming for

[ebon pagoda]

more illuvials needed should means more cost

despite the fuel price

[turbid osprey]

Not necessarily, 20x4 = 100 and 50x2 also = 100

[ebon pagoda]

thats not how it works

9 illuvials vs 13 illuvials

since price hasnt been published yet

its different if they have published the price and then reduce the price after this change

[safe valve]

Yea, prices haven't been published, so there can't be an increase in price 🙃

[ebon pagoda]

but now u need more illuvials lol

[safe valve]

Yea, which increase the demand for low stages, which is a good thing for the DAO.
The Chance of "dead" illuvials nobody would have bought decreased tremendously

[timber wasp]

Liking the direction, just played a few games. Feels like you have more agency and can make different decisions

[cyan olive]

if you want to speculate on price of things, which seems hard without any numbers etc. to do, but for fun/entertainment I guess, don´t forget that you don´t need augments anymore now

[ebon pagoda]

we went from 1 illuvials per line for ascendant to 13 illuvials

[turbid osprey]

If your 1 illuvial was a S3 he was already 9 illuvial if you want to count like this

[ebon pagoda]

it used to be just 1 s1 needed to access all stages

[turbid osprey]

Not a big difference and as price and spawnrates arent decided yet it doesnt matter

[turbid osprey]

1 year ago yea

[safe valve]

It doesn't matter as Long as the Deck costs are payable for the majority as intended

[turbid osprey]

but if that one s1 was 10$ and now its 1$ its the same. Price isnt determined yet

So things can move

[worn tree]

Anyone from the team could clarify if hyper area has changed? The hyper induction doesnt fit with the positioning. For instance, yday my geyser got hyper and he didnt have any enemy unit near him at all.

[ebon pagoda]

its not the same
a year ago u only need to spend time to capture one illuvials per line
now u have to capture 13 illuvials and level them up
time needed increased

[safe valve]

Haven't tried new Version, but can't you Show hyper area anymore?

[ebon pagoda]

time = cost, so my comment is still valid lol

the good side of this is u get more time-played in the game

and we have to decrease the fuel price to compensate that

it could be good to get more players

i mean farmers

[worldly token]

question: do both players get the same 3 random augments to choose from or are they different?

[safe valve]

No it's not.
All these parameters aren't set yet, so they all could be changed so it is like before.

[turbid osprey]

Yes that is a fair point but its still mainly determined by price and spawn rates

[turbid osprey]

Different

[safe valve]

The only thing for sure is that low stages get bought more since you also need them in Battles.

[grand bluff]

So 1v1 Arena with me?

[turbid osprey]

Good question, ive noticed too a geyyser in the back getting hyper while im fairly certain almost no illuvials were in his 50 hex range. Didnt pay close attention since the beginning of the round though so cant confirm

[grand bluff]

I think they can easily tweak other things to compensate for needing 13 Illuvials. Maybe adjust spawn rate of higher tier Illuvials to be higher, adjust the chance to capture an Illuvial to be higher (= less Shards used = cheaper). I think there are a lot of options to compensate from needing 9 Illuvials to 13 Illuvials in Arena.

[ebon pagoda]

nah im farming blast rn

[grand bluff]

What's blast?

[ebon pagoda]

blur's L2

[ebon pagoda]

from 1 illuvials to 13 illuvials, if u want time to remain constant means capture time + leveling up need to be 13x faster

[grand bluff]

I guess I need to look into it if Jag is participating for max money 🧐

[safe valve]

It's from 1 to 1
Or from 9:13
It's not from 1 to 13

[ebon pagoda]

its from 1 to 9 to 13

[ebon pagoda]

we used to only need 1 illuvials per line to access all stages in ascendant

[safe valve]

Aah... Yea....That was Change really Long time ago.
If i remember right that idea didn't even stay alive really Long.

[ebon pagoda]

yea long time ago

i think the idea was to make ascendant very accessible

[cyan olive]

can we pls acknowledge, that we never knew a $ number for any of these cases, nor did we know $ number for augments, so it isn´t a correct starting point to assume price go up

[ebon pagoda]

im leaning more to fully F2P ascendant

we can get so many players

[safe valve]

Lol

[cyan olive]

I don´t think trying to change the whole economy of the game when it wants to launch in q2 is a real talking point

[ebon pagoda]

its challenging to get people to play with rewards
i cant imagine when they have to pay to play

TFT cost $0

my idea, keep ascendant fully F2P and leviathan P2W

[cyan olive]

that is another thesis, ownership has always been the baseline pro of web3 so trying to compare some god account beta testing with finished product isn´t a fair one

[worldly token]

They added a 30% less shielding augment (which is awesome) but it doesn't do anything against revenants still. They get too much shield to get through it.. You basically can only wait for the shield to go away. Even a buffed invoker Ophisto cannot get through the shield of the ranger when he gets a takedown. Not a single HP lost, with the augment. Kinda rough

[ebon pagoda]

degens just want to make money, we dnt care about ownership
for us its just jpegs

[cyan olive]

you keep changing the topic

[ebon pagoda]

get F2P players, get them to spend on cosmetics or maybe some battle pass (VIP in pixels), give some earnings.
if they want to earn more they spend more and do leviathan

[cyan olive]

you personally assume a f2p arena would make more money?
that is changing the whole economy of the game, seems not doable, outside of that it is an assumption not a fact

[ebon pagoda]

we changed a lot of things already

because they just realised that web2 wont be coming for awhile

been saying this for 2 years

[cyan olive]

ownership was never changed, has always been the idea

ILV is basically TCGs, but online

[ebon pagoda]

like i said the market is web3
web3 just want to make money

[cyan olive]

not a cosmetic driven game

[cyan olive]

this is just a different point, that has nothing to do with the monetization

you try to argue/assume f2p cosmetics>you need to own what you play with, which isn´t a universally true fact, many games need you to own what you play with and make lots of revenue

[ebon pagoda]

the F2P is too get traction

you want to post 600k DAU

like pixels

and then people will flock in

[cyan olive]

but overworld and arena are f2p to some extent
you can play tier 0 regions, get tier 0 illuvials, you have test teams, you will have a free rotation, you have survivial mode

[ebon pagoda]

some percentage of that F2P will convert to P2W

[cyan olive]

that is dozens if not 100h+ f2p content already

you can easily consider all the ILV games atm f2p under what is considered f2p in games atm

anyone can log in and play something

[ebon pagoda]

i said fully F2P for ascendant

meaning u can access all illuvials in OB just like rn

[cyan olive]

so you just assume fully f2p would be better?
why?
e.g. one of the problem points people have atm is that everyone has everything->they can copy every thing

[ebon pagoda]

people been enjoying pre-OB arena, they can use all illuvials, but in a few months they gonna have to spend money

let me ask, what is the arena DAU with our current fully F2P arena plus token rewards?

[safe valve]

Super low

Maybe f2p godmode isn't a good thing to do

[ebon pagoda]

how low is super low

[safe valve]

Below 500 i guess

[ebon pagoda]

this is pixels active wallet

475k

[ruby plover]

hey guys, can I still participate in this week leaderboard?

[safe valve]

Maybe we should delete game and Make a better pixelz

[cyan olive]

You again realize you compare an on chain live game, with a beta testing one that isn´t on chain,
also trying to pic one game in comparrison isn´t a good argument, I could say let´s look at this succesful on with ownership focus and make the same claim

[ebon pagoda]

we def need to make the game more accessible, meaning easier to play, very low cost of entry

[safe valve]

Entry cost are 0 ... Can't go lower than that

[ebon pagoda]

what is your target arena DAU for the first 3 months post OB?

[ebon pagoda]

thats why i said fully f2p ascendant

[safe valve]

That's not entry cost... That's total cost

[ebon pagoda]

if people want to earn more they can do leviathan where they have to spend

big time f2p
shrapnel $20
chronoforge $0
pixelmon $0

[cyan olive]

Jag, you keep getting away from what you initially claimed, as you seemingly can´t prove it.

you said arena cost goes up with the teambuilder change, that isn´t true, we don´t know if it goes up down, stays the same

you said you need game to be f2p, low entry, it already is that

then you said full f2p->revamp entire economy of the game 1 quarter before launch?

and then again what you say are assumptions with at most so far 1 game as an example, when I can prob do little research and just handpick some game that wouldn´t fit your narrative

in web2 many games with different monetizations are successfull, this full f2p is only option to make 9-10figure revenue just isn´t a true statement, in reality many games aren´t full f2p and spending money either gives you save time advantage or get items/chars others who don´t spend could never get

[ebon pagoda]

how is it F2P when u have to buy fuel to get to t1 area

[junior geyser]

I thought last snapshot was in 36 hours?

[ebon pagoda]

its free to try

if u have to grind T0, sell T0 (earn eth) then buy fuel (spend eth) then its not F2P

[cyan olive]

see here

[ebon pagoda]

free-to-try then

like lv 10 wow

then u have to pay to progress

[cyan olive]

not every game gives you god accounts, many make you grind currency to then get a small bit of what a paying customer can have, that is just a normal model

also this is a repeat of above

[ebon pagoda]

u can play big time, pixels, chronoforge, pixelmon without spending

[worn tree]

yes you can, and there is a clear discrepancy

[worn tree]

Absolutely. But not just Geyser, all illuvials suffer from this hyper area discrepancy. Either a bug or a change I wasn't aware of.

@topaz lake @wide aspen could you please confirm this?

[ebon pagoda]

can u get fuel from just playing T0?
or do u need to play T0, earn ETH by selling T0, then spend ETH to buy fuel?

[vast nymph]

I think the team is looking for feedback on how we like the new gameplay mechanics. They are aware of bugs and imbalances I think. They are probably looking for feedback on how to improve.

[steep linden]

The regular gamers I play with are still not really interested in Illuvium yet, I am not sure why. I know they would love the Overworld, with the resource and crafting aspect. The Ranger needs a special item slot (in Arena), that can be filled with an item found in OW. (what will be the point of slugs and bugs you capture in OW?) But what would make Arena enticing for a casual player who does not own enough illuvials to make it interesting? In League of Legends, there are a set of free characters from each class. that you could build a team with.

[wide aspen]

Yes, the Hyper Range has been increased to 70. This was done so units in the back can also receive the benefits of Hyper.

[worn tree]

Thanks for the info. So there is now a mismatch with hyper hex in the UX/UI and actual computation. Was this clarified in the patch notes?

[wide aspen]

The UX/UI should not be mismatched. If it is, please submit a bug report. And no, I don't think we mentioned this in the patch notes. Thanks for the heads-up, I'll talk to the team to include it!

[worn tree]

Great thanks! What I meant by mismatch, is that hyper area shown in game is still the old (50 hexes I think). From here the mismatch.

[solemn tundra]

Yuga is trying to win web2 with a F2P version of DooKey Dash starting next month. They definitely don't want more web3 speculators "playing" their games.

We should watch this closely and learn from it. There is a good chance that we need a similar casual fun mobile game with Illuvials etc. as prizes to win over mainstream. If Yuga is successful we might benefit from their success. Might not be the worst to let Yuga pave the way for us and be a successful copy cat of their recipe.

Our games are definitely not for a web3 speculative money making community. For them we could have gone online years ago with pixel graphics.

[ebon pagoda]

one matrix for me to know if a game is popular or not is if the filipinos are playing.
i see this in mavia and pixels.
then again mavia, pixels and dookey dash are casual games

[worn tree]

On another note,

There is a misalignment with the MP curve and the expendable resources around round 5 onwards as the lack of tokens don't allow you to stage up the illuvials. Since augments no longer have costs, there is an excess of MP that makes no sense.

My proposal to adjust this would be to increase the amount of ASC. tokens provided by round 5 onwards.

[solemn tundra]

Yuga is play testing it first in the Philippines starting today, next is Europe etc. and then global.

[ebon pagoda]

yuga is smart then
web3 gonna flock into popular games
despite what people said about cagyjan
i am watching him, hes a very important figure in web3 gaming, because he is actually playing the game
people like becker is coin pump and dumper, i dnt think even try the game, well tbf he said he never care about the actual game, just the narrative

[solemn tundra]

It is painful for Yuga asset holders at the moment, prices are down a lot, but I don't see it as negative. It is a normal adjustment process going from a pure speculative environment to a hopefully stable mainstream and gamer customer base.

[ebon pagoda]

wasnt expecting for fp to this low, i guess token is the play

[dull wind]

I would say instead of ascendant being fully F2P I would rather it have a weekly rotation of free illuvials for players to choose from. And instead, create an entirely new mode that is F2P and has no access to tournaments or leaderboards.

[safe valve]

It will have weekly Decks plus illuvials afaik

[dull wind]

just create a separate F2P mode for players to enjoy the game and we're gucci

[supple beacon]

Why leaderboard is not updating? Is it paused untill snapshot?

[gritty wren]

can someone share a cool deck?

[proven ember]

this is factored into the curing costs, travel costs and so on

if the demand side increases - then to maintain our price goals we adjust on the supply side. So we've updated our models. Price targets for decks remain the same as before this change.

[low comet]

is the ascend token capped at 3 points?

[proven ember]

yes

[ebon pagoda]

how does adjusting supply work with the bonding curve?

[proven ember]

we adjust the bonding curve

[low comet]

so if I have 3 and sell 1 stage 3 illuvial I wont get any refund?

[ebon pagoda]

thats what i fear

trying to manage the economy by tinkering supply

is risky

[proven ember]

there is no economy to manage as you've all never played with the economy turned on

we've also not communicated details on this so we can develop and tune as needed until release

[proven ember]

as far as I know yeah.

[ebon pagoda]

some people would want to speculate on rising price
most of the volume usually come from traders

what ur saying here is you want to keep prices constant

by adjusting illuvials supply instead of sticking to the bonding curve

why do we need bonding curve if u can adjust the bonding curve

[proven ember]

we're not adjusting the bonding curve after release, we're adjusting it presently because prior to release the demand side changes we could be making need to be carried through the supply side.

we're adjusting and tuning before release via the models

[proven ember]

once we release it doesn't change

[ebon pagoda]

then wdym by adjusting the supply side to maintain price goals when demand side increases?

[proven ember]

Model says 10,000 X illuvials will exist.

New model says 100,000 illuvial X will exist.

[ebon pagoda]

demand only come post OB

how do we know demand pre-OB

[proven ember]

know? nobody does. we forecast and predict.

[ebon pagoda]

maybe you mean expected demand?

yes

thats one very tricky thing

especially with web3 gaming where its very volatile

do u have plan to discuss about this with the community
like pricing and illuvials supply

im in the camp to make it as cheap as possible

very low barrier to entry

just to grab that market share

one, the hardware requirement is already relatively high

[proven ember]

this is #🎮〕illuvium-arena chat

[dull wind]

we don't even need to create a new mode, we already have casual mode. Why would anyone play casual if not to try out illuvials they don't own or to test different teams?

[silver merlin]

Sudden game update?

My game crashed and 400 mb update?

Well not crashed but froze

[low comet]

do you guys get issue where you can't play stage 2 because youre stage 1 is missing on the deck

[silver merlin]

You have to include stage 1 to upgrade it to stage 2

[low comet]

pm you bro

[silver merlin]

?

[low comet]

nvm found what im missing hahahaha

[silver merlin]

Oh oke

[vague karma]

I got duplicated augments cards, but only had one. don't know if this is a known bug

the lynx line is completely broken with more than one stage 2 and stage 3 as well

I really think the team nailed the hyper mechanic

the deck is so big now, that I had some AP.

[worn tree]

Typo detected

[worn tree]

It is a bug

[worn tree]

Yup, deck is overwhelmly big, they need to make it simpler by just displaying the illuvial line rather than the 3 stages

[turbid osprey]

Need 200 IQ to know what your opponent is playing now

[gritty wren]

revenant rhamph a bit strong, no?

[cursive echo]

stop wanting to make games completely free, we have a good ecosystem🙏

scholars will be able to play fo free

[dull wind]

Casual mode should be F2P with all the illuvials available, change my mind.

[cursive echo]

what not but not reward

[dull wind]

ofc no rewards, it's a testing mode

[worldly token]

I see another patch. Do we know what was changed / fixed?

[ebon pagoda]

IZ F2P
Play-to-airdrop

Not only its free, u can get airdrop

[gritty wren]

elo hell

[topaz lake]

Hello, we fixed a bug causing the Illuvials and Augments to reappear in the Team Panel when doing certain actions.

Please update the game. Version: 14171

[cursive echo]

it is to reward investors the airdrop it is not part of the economic system do not take it into consideration

[worldly token]

question: jotun for example is frost with air as base affinity. With the new mode the "Air" trait isnt going down when upgrading to frost. Does jotun then get both bonuses?

[fringe zephyr]

Hi, why i cannot copy team from link ?

[alpine dagger]

I put 30% energy resist reduced augment , on same unit that had 50% energy resist reduction augment .... So first game starts instantly selling 2nd augment , but responded with NO UNDO command, so it went in to a loop of buggs , where my pc exploded of bugs, and game is not even working rn for me

If i didnt pull out power supply pc could have died :C

[worldly jolt]

I’m glad you are ok. You seem to have terrible bugs.

Have you updated to this new new patch? #🎮〕illuvium-arena message

[cursive echo]

@worn tree invincible titanor

[worn tree]

Hahahahahah it didn't work as expected tho :S hjahahahaha

[worn tree]

LOL

[unreal siren]

This question plus: Is this why I can no longer select Jotun with Water/Bulwark dominant in Team Builder? Looks like Air/Fighter dominant is only option...

[proven ember]

yes, higher stage illuvials dominants are always what the dominant of the stage 1 illuvial was.

[proven ember]

yes

[unreal siren]

Thanks much! Bit of a bummer though, would love to have that flexibility back.

[supple beacon]

From round 4-5 onward you can full sideswap every turn because you have so much gold to spend. I don't like that because any of the positioning of the first turns does not matter anymore, and it is just random guessing where your opponent will be.

[hardy minnow]

rhampyre is still kicking it haha

[hot pond]

I had a bug where i got the exact same 3 augments to choose twice in a row. Selected the same augment twice, the game froze for a while, then it worked again but I didnt receive any augment. So I guess duplicates cant be a thing?

[dull wind]

@cyan olive these game crashes... gg

[vernal forum]

Yes, the composite affinity Illuvials now keep their base affinity and class as well. So jotun is air, fighter, frost and behemoth and receives the full hyper bonus for fighter as well as the full affinity bonus from fighter and full air class bonus.

[vernal forum]

I just wish to express how amazing it is that you all fixed this issue so incredibly quickly. Thank you so much for being the best gaming development studio.

[faint plinth]

Yo!! The reward system became disable aflter the patch?

Before the patch was the last week, right?

[vernal forum]

It ends tomorrow at the scheduled weekly cutoff and will likely be back once this new mode is stable.

[faint plinth]

I see, thanks!!

[dull wind]

the synergies window should give an option to see all active synergies and not simply say +3 or +2

[late lagoon]

Yeah agree with this. Not as easy to know what you have anymore

[ebon pagoda]

we have fuel crate airdrop and upcoming play-to-airdrop

[dull wind]

that's a one time event don't talk like it's the norm

[obtuse imp]

One question, after the next snapshot there are several weeks without rewards right? So we can troll and experiment

[obtuse imp]

Nevermind is answered here my bad

[west quartz]

the arena leaderboard doesn't seem to update anymore, is it because you already took the snapshot and froze the end result ?

[ebon pagoda]

still completely free. Zodd was saying i should stop wanting to make games completely free, while we have IZ F2P. i reckon u can max build your plot for free without a pay wall unlike OW.
plus johnny was discussing some small value generation for F2P IZ

[dull wind]

I just backed you up back there regarding F2P, what you must get straight is that the F2P is only a version of the game that doesn't grant you access to any rewards, you're just playing for fun.

[safe valve]

Do we? 👀
Leak some secret council Stuff mate 🙃

[ebon pagoda]

im hoping we can reward F2P. it can be a very small reward and treat it as marketing cost. maybe very small percentage of revenue

or use in game rewards token

cmiiw u can farm pixel token, like few pixels a day, like 5. worth about $4/day?

[echo yew]

This balancing team blows my mind

[ebon pagoda]

i know nothing

[worn tree]

They made clear that the game is not balanced and it's actually incomplete. So there is no way we can critize them for that

At least not now.

[dull wind]

if you're good maybe you'll be able to place on the bottom part of the leaderboard with the free weekly illuvial rotation. If we start giving away rewards to F2P we're just asking for the system to get flooded with bots, no matter how "small" the reward is.

[rustic berry]

I didnt have any unaranked matches, I started with 900 ish points straight away is this normal?

I thought I won almost all of them and am still battling in 1050 points range crushing noobs

(really liking the changes though)

[quasi sage]

Love the new Arena. The ascension mechanics really do make a huge difference. Not having to put augments in team building is a win in my book. Love having 50 spots but having to commit to all 3 stages to get tier 3 illuvials. Amazing work!

[ebon pagoda]

is it bot able?

[dull wind]

what's not?

[ebon pagoda]

me

sydney sweeney

[dull wind]

Sora enters the room

[south glacier]

That doesn't make sense to be honest. Overworld would be completely obsolete if arena is F2P. No point in catching and collecting Illuvials if you can play arena for free and have every Illuvial for free. You say that you want Leviathan P2W which won't create any significant demand for Illuvials caught in the Overworld because (according to your thesis) majority will play F2P arena.

Illuvium is a collection game. Nobody will collect anything if you get everything for free. So this would kill any trading and revenue in the game.

[ebon pagoda]

yes majority will play F2P, and if they want to earn they can catch/buy illuvials

[safe valve]

Well, thats how it is intended right now... You can play for free with t0 and if you wana get serious and earn Stuff you can catch/buy higher tiers

[ebon pagoda]

how much do you think is decent cost for a deck

[safe valve]

Way more than the majority want it to be 😂

I See it as a longplay game, not a game i buy play for 100h, bin it and go for the next game

[south glacier]

That won't create any significant demand. Whales will buy all the perfect stat illuvials. 99% of the caught illuvials will be worthless. Majority of people realizes that they can't compete with whales and switch back to F2P for a free and fair competitive environment. This will kill all revenue after the first few weeks

[safe valve]

It would be super cool to See Decks grow over time, and not like after two months there are 3 meta Decks and everybody plays them because they cost 5$

[dull wind]

I'm with Spoon here

[south glacier]

This will also create no excitement in catching any illuvial because you just have to switch game mode and have every illuvial anyway. When you catch the illuvial you will be disappointed most of the time if it has no perfect stats

[ebon pagoda]

OW is a gacha

for us to be sustainable most people shouldnt make profit

how many people made money from d1sk?

i mean net profit

and to have whales buying up all the perfect stat you need a popular game

the current meta in web3 is F2P

sorry, F2P plus airdrop

[dull wind]

I'll just say this. NFT's when tied to a game have value long term and that value increases with time.
So to answer your question, yes most of the d1sk buyers didn't made money unless they were lucky. But that might not be the same 1 or 2 years down the line when these assets appreciate due to their scarcity.

[ebon pagoda]

in the bear market?

[dull wind]

irrelevant

wave 1 illuvitars appreciated during the bear market

same will happen when set 1 illuvials end and no one is able to catch em anymore

[safe valve]

Good point, thats why we shouldn't even consider making it f2p + p2e

[ebon pagoda]

sadly we prob do

[dull wind]

I mean he was talking about OW. Isn't it F2P and P2E already? with the stage 0?

[dull wind]

jag who is defining this meta?

[ebon pagoda]

the market

[dull wind]

doubt that

[ebon pagoda]

pixels
pixelmon
chrono forge
mavia

[dull wind]

I've said this to you before but I'll say it again. There isn't actually any good web3 game atm.

[south glacier]

Correct. But we need people to trade. Otherwise we dont have revenue. People trade to expand a collection or to make progress in a game. People wont trade if they get everything for free

[dull wind]

yes games that are so bad that they need to airdrop to attract players

bruh get your references straight

[ebon pagoda]

lol we are airdropping token to attract players
what ru trying to say about ilv

[dull wind]

last time I heard Kieran said the airdrop was to reward the current playerbase

[ebon pagoda]

arena leaderboard rewards
content creator rewards
beyond leaderboard rewards
the biggest airdrop in gamefi history
play-to-airdrop

bruh get your facts straight

i listed 5 airdrops

[dull wind]

the airdrops are a 1 time event

[south glacier]

Players wont even play if they get everything for free because there wont be any progress. Making 2 out of 3 games obsolete

[dull wind]

the leaderboards are the p2e part of our ecosystem

[ebon pagoda]

and people received token without paying a dime

how many ILV have we airdropped to players

[dull wind]

leaderboards are not airdrops... wtf

you only airdropped the crate fuels so far

[ebon pagoda]

same thing

[dull wind]

it's not

[ebon pagoda]

it is

[dull wind]

so play to earn is play to airdrop?

[ebon pagoda]

its the same thing

[dull wind]

then why change the name?

[ebon pagoda]

because of axie

and the negative sentiment towards p2e

[dull wind]

oh so there's a negative sentiment about NFT's should we change their name too?

[ebon pagoda]

we just changed the name, its essentially "play our game, earn token"

[ebon pagoda]

yea some tried to call it digital collectibles

i think reddit did that

[dull wind]

i'm done, pointless conversation

[ebon pagoda]

first of all, we need people to play the game
the trade (volume) only comes if the game is popular

[south glacier]

Yes. We do. But with your modell there is no need to trade at all

[ebon pagoda]

we have leviathan
people can work their way up the rank by owning lesser stats, make some money from leaderboard
save up, trade up their illuvials

[south glacier]

Why would they pay money to play a game mode where the odds of winning are worse than in ascendant mode which is completely free? And where they have to pay to have less units to play compared to the free mode? Just hoping that at some point in time they might earn a few bucks? While probably 90% of leviathan players will never reach a rank where they earn enough to even get the money back they invested

[south glacier]

This means you pay money to earn money to buy better units. Which means you wont earn anything because you have to reinvest. So isnt it better to stay in f2p mode?

[ebon pagoda]

why would anyone pay money to play any game
TFT cost $0

Palworld $30

[safe valve]

Idk, ask those who play wow

[ebon pagoda]

CS:G0 $0
Fortnite $0
LOL $0

[cursive echo]

but let's stop comparing ourselves to other games

[south glacier]

Its just you giving away everything for free and expect people to pay for a mode where they have less

[ebon pagoda]

clash of clan $0

[south glacier]

Normally you make f2p games and people spend money to upgrade their gaming experience. Not downgrade it

[ebon pagoda]

u can earn, its an upgrade

[south glacier]

Thats why i think making ascendant completely free doesnt work

[cursive echo]

think of the investing player, you just think of the investor (token)

players want to play and invest in illuvial

we don't play just because it's a good game we play because you can also earn money

it is the strength of illuvium to be the owner of nft

[south glacier]

Not really. You start way worse than in f2p. So you are selling a mode where you have to pay an absurd amount of money to unlock everything that others get for free. If you did that only then you get a better version of ascendant arena. That feels very bad and wont create a significant demand for illuvials because most playee wont reach that point

[ebon pagoda]

thats how i imagine TFT players thinking about arena

[ebon pagoda]

how much do you think is a reasonable cost for a deck?

[cursive echo]

when you are going to capture a ramphy that you can sell for $5k don't worry you will have the entire population who will invest in fuel to try to capture it

[ebon pagoda]

yea web3 degens love to gamble

i mean memecoin

[cursive echo]

but that’s what makes the difference with web2 ^^

[south glacier]

Idk. But every meta deck so far had some T0 in it. So you can catch some T0 for free. Then buy some more Illuvials and you have a starter deck that you can expand when you want higher ranks in arena. I hope a starter deck won't be too expensive. Hard to speculate without knowing fuel prices. Even the arena mode has been changed with last patch. So idk how many Illuvials or illuvial lines you need in your deck on release day.

[worn tree]

An update 24h later:

MP supply/demand curve is disaligned.

Ascention system feels clunky in some ways. The core concept is great but the fact that stage 1-2 illuvials occupy the same amount of hex as S3 makes no sense. I would definitely lean towards correct hex dimension and free move on ascention. Or at least introduce a slight MP fee for moving on ascention but a way must be found to keep original hexes. Now all illuvials are big as fuck in terms of hexes and no clusters are allowed.

Augments need polishing in terms of balance and consistency for the sake of fair gameplay.

UX/UI needs work

Bugs

And overall I have the feeling the game feels cluncky prolly due to unbalancing and MP curve disalignment. Maybe thats it or maybe there is something else. But I am not having as much fun as I anticipated.

Maybe that because only a certain amount of illuvials are actually playable due to unbalancing and I am tired of facing and playing the same teams for a month in a row.

We are getting there guys but now the hardest thing is yet to be done, which is achieving actual game balance. I suggest some focus is put on achieving an acceptable level of game balance as it gets hard to make fair assessments if the game is balance-broken as it is now.

[cursive echo]

@west quartz j ai peur haha

GG

[west quartz]

not even close

https://tenor.com/view/sweats-gif-25346666

[gritty wren]

Illuvium: Mirror

[raven obsidian]

will CTRL Z make a return?

i had to sell my stage 2 illuvial so i could rebond to another illuvial

thern realised i coudlnt place that stage 2 back on the board

went to undo

but failed

🫨

[zenith bough]

You cannot undo in this patch

[raven obsidian]

ty ser

gg btw

[gloomy barn]

Why would they balance the game now when they are probably waiting until all the illuvials are going to be available in pb4? They probably released the new game mode to see if there are any bugs in the mode on different configurations. Balance should be expected in pb4 because it doesn't make sense to do twice this late.

[raven obsidian]

did you spot my mistake too?

sold my singe so i could rebond to snek for 3x arcanite

but lost my singe in doing so and could only put flare back on board

ooops

[zenith bough]

No. Was busy enjoying my win. Only happens like 1 out of 10 games, so had to embrace it

[edgy flower]

wonder wtf is this, coz he has no avatar, but for me he has this instead of avatar xd

[worn tree]

I dont see how improve game balance now is an issue. Its a net positive and to be fair it shouldnt be that hard.

[gritty wren]

bot avatar

we are food for them bots

[vernal forum]

@ people complaining about balance, I am genuinely curious: did you guys try every comp possible?
I feel that many of you barely tried ~5 comps and complain about mirrors, hell some people don't even bother to try to create something. They just see someone play X, so they play X too.
There are soo many possibilities right now, I am having a blast playing 7 psion invokers (or 5 psion invokers with a solid frontline), 5 empath blazenite, 7 fighter terrorbird, 7 fighter berserkers
I'm not saying that balance is perfect by any means, but I feel that you are exagerrating a little, you should at least try as much stuff as possible before complaining

even viper had some success against rhamphyre decks with a scoriox deck

hyper is also so great now at countering stuff

augments do need some work though

[worn tree]

Problem:

There is an issue with ascention tokens. It is definitely not as valuable to upgrade a tier 0 illuvial than a tier 5 illuvial. Sure, MP cost is difference but right now the most precious asset in the game are ascention tokens. Also, MP doesnt make up for the difference. Because a tier 1 illuvial can provide composites and upgrading it to stage 2 costs the same as upgrading a tier 0 to stage 2, the only difference is that you don't get a composite. There are many things that feel weird and mismatched with current game experience. Don't get me wrong, this is a clear step in the right direction but much more is needed. Maybe instead of a flat resource as a "token", what about something more divisible?

MP provides that divisibility, but still it feels weird to pay the same amount of ascention tokens to upgrade a volante to stage 2 than a rhanphy to stage 2.

Proposal 1:

2 different currencies should coexist in the game, both being divisible (not just tokens). One is MP and the other is an essence that allows illuvials to go to the next stage, and this essence is harnessed by winning/losing, activating more synergies, etc.

Something to increase in-game decision making, game variability and stuff. We need a lot more of that or everything feels too repetitive.

Proposal 2:

This "essence" could also be used to add moves & passives to the illuvials in play. This moves & passives thing is linked to the proposal I made back when @noble radish asked us to give ideas on the 1v1^8 mode.

---

Idk guys, so much to be done, so many possibilities...

[young wagon]

Seeing the change they have made, I understand why they don't put much effort into the balancing. I do not believe and hope that this is not the final version of the game, and with that in mind, balancing the game around a mode that is going to change is a waste of time. By the way, evolving the Illuvial in the game doesn't seem bad to me, but the way it is done now it reduces the game options, and it is also not very organic because I understand that you evolve an Illuvial but it is assumed that in reality you already have the 3 phases of that illuvial. Changes like that make me think they don't know what to do with the game. In fact, with the current system from a certain point you will always have gold left over because you cannot evolve all the Illuvials, and there are no more augments to spend it on, and phases 2 or 3 of Illuvials like Grokko are useless because you will never evolve them, Phase 3 of the lynx will practically never be used. etc.

[raven obsidian]

HAAAA

take that G4UDI

[cyan olive]

redo is disabled atm due to causing many bugs

[cyan olive]

I was winning rhamph matchup 100% after I figured out positioning, idk why people just copy paste rhamph either

[vernal forum]

I agree with the ascension tokens needing a little help for the reasons above - t0 upgrades are a complete waste of the token and so we’ll rarely, if ever, see the second and third forms of these Illuvial used. A distinction between composite lines and straight affinity lines should be made in resource management imo to remedy this.

Also, as desperately as we players would like to see balance addressed, it would simply be time wasted given where we sit currently in development.

[cyan olive]

overall, it is a beta to test and get feedback, we got giga early version of new features and systems, I like them, happy we got it and hope most people can appreciate that as well

[raven obsidian]

thanks

[gritty wren]

one day he will get his revenge

[hoary mason]

I love the idea of evolving them and only having one version of the ilv on the board.

[vernal forum]

Yes, but what’s the best way to address the disparity between evolving a grokko vs evolving a rhamphyre?

[hoary mason]

just dont be a ass illuvial.. idk

[young wagon]

Well, I think this patch is worse than the previous one. It doesn't solve the game's problems, and I think it adds new ones. There are ideas that may be good, but I don't think they are well implemented.

[worn tree]

Also, the more time passes, the more I miss being able to select at least dominant affinity. Maybe class its fine as it is, but afinity rules on hyper, and that is pretty important.l

[young wagon]

Also, since they have made the hyper more powerful, removing that option is more noticeable.

[vernal forum]

I wonder if something as simple as making t0 cost .5 token to evolve and composites cost the full token would work? Feels like an improvement, but not good enough for final form to me.

[west quartz]

@zenith mortar any idea ?

[zenith mortar]

Yeah, we have a known issue with ranks being frozen, we know and are investigating.

[young wagon]

I don't like the system, I think it only limits the game, I would remove the token system to evolve directly.. What would be good is that, for example, you play squizz because in early it is better and easier to play because it has a lower cost, and when you want to play ophisto, instead of having both on the table or having to sell squizz and play ophisto, squizz get off the table and ophisto enters for only 50. It would help to give more importance to low costs in early, and also to high costs because it would be easier and cheaper to make the transition. In addition, it makes the transitions simpler and solves the balancing problem that is sometimes created by being able to play the same illuvial in its 3 phases.

[worn tree]

Why not create a more divisible resource rather than a token? Token is way too lineal

[hoary mason]

t0 cot 1 t2 cost 2 and t3 cost 3 and add more tokens in play instead of 2 per round.

[gentle bronze]

Would anyone be kind enough to link a poor Jimberino one of those Revenant/Rhamphyre decks? UwU

[vernal forum]

This sounds like it could work and it simplifies things, a potential win win.

[vernal forum]

Yeah, like the idea below yours, but this introduces more complexity, which I’m against. So would love to see this mode with no tokens, just mp needed. Thoughts on that?

[vernal forum]

Good idea, but I’d like to see no tokens first because it’s simpler and in my mind simple in function is good. My ideal game is a simple ruleset that is incredibly complex and impossible to master. Aka chess or poker. Crazy simple games that can be taught in an afternoon and still not learned in a lifetime.

[latent moss]

Team, we need an extra tutorial lesson on what each of the stats mean and what they do please 🙏

It always gets passed over but is a key basic building block for the game

Crit amp/crit chance etc etc

Newbies have no idea what the mean

[silver merlin]

Me too pls

[latent moss]

They*

[west quartz]

ty 🙂

[worn tree]

I don't think adding an extra resource for staging up and potentially unlocking skills and passives for your illuvials would make the game terribly complex.

[karmic orbit]

damn how to counter this ramphyre rogue builds 🤦🏻‍♂️ will we again play mirrors?

[worn tree]

I don't get what you mean sir

[rancid raptor]

Guys do you know what happend with the emotes that we earned I think it was around Christmas by playing arena?

[worn tree]

Nah man, they gotta do smthing about it. Rha is designed to kill squishy backline targets, but with the inferno kit he is strong AF vs tanks now. And now it can't get bursted consistently by perfecet positioning on fighter style illuvials bcz the energy constant make him cast too fast for that. So yeah, they created a monster. I said this right after reading the patch notes and I say this now.

They gotta fix this.

[static crane]

Good day.

In my opinion, the most interesting arena format is the random draft of cards for both players. Let's assume that each match the players' decks will be generated randomly and identically for both players. In this way, matches should become more varied and interesting than the same teams battling against each other and “Coin flip”

I think team builders make the game less varied and more boring than if each match the players had different decks of illuvials, weapons, augmentations and armor, something like a survival mod, but with its own adjustments to the number of cards, etc.

What do you think about it guys? What could be wrong with the random draft format?

[worn tree]

how do you add collectionist aspect to this? Bear in mind that the IP is all about ownership

[karmic orbit]

hopefully soon, cause I thought finally some change and less mirror matchups.. played just 3 matches and all had the same play, like bots.. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[worn tree]

What I mean is, players should not be able to play illuvials they do not possess

[worn tree]

They thought that tuning down inferno a bit was enough, but the thing is so OP in so many ways that a small nerf won't make the cut just yet.

[vernal forum]

then you should be able to counter it easily, right? Again, there are players that can consistently win against rha decks

if you always face same deck, you just have to find its counter and then you get free wins, right? 😛

I find it mind-boggling how people complain, but refuse to train a myriad of deck possibilities, especially now that rewards are going to get paused

[karmic orbit]

Yea, I know, will try somehow, but I lose focus and dont want to play .. I’m so low elo, and just getting smurf account that have the decks, its not playable right now for casual guys like me

[vernal forum]

Now is the perfect moment to try stuff, go wild, find the next broken thing

and keep it secret until the rewards are back xd

[karmic orbit]

Its not fun, not enough players, just hard core grinders playing the game now

And testing stuff on low elo doesnt help

[static crane]

Maybe it should be one of the game's mods. Separate for competitive games and separate for those who like to collect

[vernal forum]

well yeah, you got that right, low amount of players will lead to that, sadly

but after the last inferno nerf, rha really isn't that much of a problem now, it's more of a pubstomper if anything

I simply refuse to accept the argument that rha is a problem until the one that is saying that has tried at least 10 different comps against it and all of them failed

that would mean that either he played really badly, or the comps were all bad

[worn tree]

You lack an option here

[karmic orbit]

sure, there needs to be a counter, hope there is a way, that’s why I wrote 😊 cause i played some games, everyone had the same

[worn tree]

For the past 4 weeks there has not been a counter.

[karmic orbit]

will try to find something, but if other say its hard to find anything, probably i dont have a chance

😅

[worn tree]

You know, there should not be A counter, there should be so many counters.

[young wagon]

The problem is that Ramphyre is a rogue + his ability has too much range. An Illuvial who kills everything he touches cannot have an ability with that much range.

[vernal forum]

again, our almighty viper has had a stream today on twitch where he played a scoriox comp that fared pretty damn good against rha - you can search for his video on twitch from today

and trust me, that is not the only counter

he simply was the only one bold enough to actually try something else for once

rather than copy paste like everyone

[worn tree]

When countering a single unit is so hard to achieve, it's clearly poor balancing. All units should have multiple strengths and weaknesses

[vernal forum]

but is it hard to achieve? I don't believe it is

[worn tree]

xD, I saw that and the rha players were awful. Go play with me at rank 2 and bring me that deck, let's see what happens.

Regardless, you don't get the point. There should not be A counter, there should be multiple of them. The fact that we have been talking about rha for so long indicates something.

[worn tree]

Go and test it for yourself man.

Rha Omega needs higher energy cost.

[vernal forum]

that's what I'm doing ^^ I am personally having a lot more fun trying crazy stuff like 7 fighter phosphorus than copy-pasting a deck

[worn tree]

It can obliterate all your backline in one hit, it can't be that easy to cast. The biggest buff to rha on its own was the fact that they doubled the energy constant.

[vernal forum]

you'd be surprised by what good comps you may find if you'd actually search for them

[young wagon]

I think the solution is simpler, and it is as simple as you building your deck, but drawing cards randomly as in traditional card games. This allows your deck to consist of illuvials, weapons, augments, etc. that are yours, and each game is going to be different and not always the same as the cards you draw in each game are different.

[worn tree]

Good, that is great dude. But a proper game needs to be balanced competitive wise.

[worn tree]

lol 😄

[worn tree]

Eventually the team will address this, mark my words.

Psion are completely unplayable due to rha. Colossus are weak against Rha because of inferno, when actually bulwark type should be strong against rogue type. Not the case thanks to this unreasonable rework on inferno. So what does kill rha? Fighters on the backline solely placed to kill that unique threat in the entire enemy team. It's all about rha. Either you play it yourself or you invest all resources to counter it. Tell me a reasonably balance game in which you invest all resources to counter smthing and still can't beat it consistently. There is none, because reasonably balance games don't have this. It's not about balance right now, I know. But why the hell did we reach this point in the first place? How did we not see that patch 0.3.5 was a shot in the foot.

Scoriox is a good choice bcz it can target airbornes and is the only high dps dealer with airbone targetting. But still, it's squishy and you need to place it upfront and hope you win the 50/50 so that rha is not at the same corner.

It's just poor design and experience.

[vernal forum]

I would love a draft mode personally.

[worldly token]

I had some successful games with invokers against rhamphyre, but it is really augment depending. A big problem I see is that a team like invoker needs too many ascend tokens to get the team going. rhamphyre starts strong from turn 2 on.

[silver merlin]

Is this fixed?