#Game Rules (new dm questions)

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abstract flicker
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yz_Nervous starting my first game and I wrote up the Rules and I was wondering if it all looks good/if there's anything missing or if I put too much ahh...

  • Starting level 3, with starter feat
  • No PVP without consent (this includes non-damaging spells that remove player autonomy such as command or silence)
  • Stats are rolled as follows (one of us will assist anyone who needs help):
    Roll character 3 times
    Reroll any total that's below a 70
    Reroll ones
    Pick your total and assign stats
    HP can be rolled or take the average (you must choose before rolling); if rolled, reroll ones
  • Flanking gives advantage
  • Meta-gaming is not allowed and will be called out (it is inevitable that it will happen by accident and we're understanding of that, but will remind the player not to do so). If the behaviour becomes a problem, in-game consequences will start occurring. Talking over others also is not allowed - please respect other players.
  • For combat, please plan what you're going to do while others are taking their turn. If you take too long to decide what to do, your turn will be skipped to keep the pace of the game going as well as maintaining realism (you do not have 30 minutes to think about something that takes 6 seconds in game). This isn't meant to be rushed and obviously plans don't always work out but please do think ahead so that we don't all have to wait.
  • Exp gain/level up is based on progression of story, character development, pivotal moments, etc. and not how many monsters you kill.
  • Death Rolls are rolled whispered to DM and you do not tell other players if you succeed or fail. This is realism babes, your party members think you're on death's door and need to save you!
  • Drinking a healing potion as an action grants max healing the potion can give; used as a bonus action, you roll for healing. Same goes for giving someone else a healing potion.

appreciate any opinions SCpray

young tapir
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I think these rules are fair. But if I were to add on to ur rules for realism sake. I'd say don't tell the players ur hp total and only when ur below half hp say that ur bloodied and when ur below 25% say ur critical. But that could just be a me thing.

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I'd also like the ask what is the deadline for thinking for ur turn once it's ur turn. Do u have like 5 seconds in real life to do something or do u have like atleast a minute to think?

abstract flicker
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i can add the hp thing, i was gonna dm that way but didn't consider players telling eachother

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for time i'd say the cap is 10-15 mins but it's variable bc sometimes players do plan and last second before their turn everything changes so i'd afford them more time, but i'll clarify both things! ty!

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that rule (time limit) is mostly there bc i've played with people who'd take 30+ minutes on their turn and it is fuckin exhausting to play with them

young tapir
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Yea I get that. Luckily for me my players usually take like 2 mins to think then act at worst.

abstract flicker
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very lucky T_T i am hoping my players will be the same but planning just in case bc i do not want to deal with that again

frail cedar
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These look fine, but here's some advice/observations anyway. shibaheart

Keep in mind that rolling for stats & for health will result in a PC that behaves unexpectedly for the purposes of bounded accuracy, particularly for the first 8 levels of the game. (||Having an 18 before level 4 and a 20 before level 8 means a player is succeeding more often than the game intended--attack rolls, saving throw DC's, et cetera.||)

Flanking is definitely exciting, but normally hurts the players more than helps them, as melee monsters will typically outnumber melee players. It's a nice way to buff up the difficulty and make players think shrewdly about positioning if that's your sort of thing. Still, important to point out, as it does impact the martial experience more severely than the caster one, typically. :)

If players are struggling to make decisions, it may be a classic case of analysis paralysis. A way of dealing with that is to reduce a player's options to a nominal two or three by opening their turn with a short descriptive bark: "Greg is down, the boss is limping, and you have an orc barreling down on you. What do you do?"

abstract flicker
# frail cedar These look fine, but here's some advice/observations anyway. <:shibaheart:832667...

i'll keep that in mind wrt rolling for skill checks/encounters! i do build my npc's the same way so they will be up against equally busted characters, but i love rolling too much and rly hate point buy lmao. i can always offer players the choice to use point buy if they want to but only someone who's not experienced enough to realize it's worse would use that and that'd be kinda unfair to newbies so idk x-x

wrt flanking, yea, it's just a fun mechanic but it working for their enemies is generally something players don't think of much, which lets me make encounters harder

and that's a good idea for combat i will def try that!! ty! :3

abstract flicker
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it's getting closer to when we start the game and i'm so nervous there's things i should know/prep that i haven't or that i've over-prepped (there's like 20 npc's just for the main city they're in already but also i have not made other cities bc my ~plan~ is to see what the players choose and build from their choices) T__T is there any advice anyone has
it's a thieves guild campaign so there is a lot of freedom on the players to choose what to do and what kind of story they want but there is also a storyline/plot set up to go with it
also i wrote down more rules and they're so long and i'm scared it's too much gfdgfd and the list of gods/deities (a google doc) is 44 pages long i know no one wants to read that sobs
they're homebrew gods so... there's a lot... they don't have to know it all or read it all but it is available to read if they want to pick a god/deity for their character to be related to (or ask us for help finding one that fits or co-making one for their character)

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i also implemented a reward system for player investment, i.e. the more backstory/art/whatever you create for your character, the more you'll get rewarded for it in the forms of minorly upgraded or special items or a feat for a huge investment and i'm concerned players will complain about that being unfair even tho they all have the ability to invest more bc it's not judged on drawing/writing ability but the actual content and effort

abstract flicker
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Game Rules (new dm questions)

tender terrace
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One thing I'll make note of, even when creating a game is: DON'T overcomplicate things unless the situation calls for it

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It may seem like a trivial statement, but one of the worst things you can do for planning things is make the plot so complex that it becomes impossible to follow. The same thing applies to some of the backstory stuff. I don't think implementing a reward system (with regards to items and feats) for backstory stuff isn't a good thing, as it is likely to cause people to write way too much for their backstories. Unless your characters are already starting at level 11 (the third tier of play) they're not gonna have THAT big of a story before their adventuring life. They might have a life story but nothing that really references tremendous accomplishments that you could take a feat from (aside from perhaps a profession like Chef, or Skilled)

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It's better to reward the players with inspiration for doing things that make sense with their character like their choices and personality stuff. If you're handing out inspiration frequently for that sort of thing then it will encourage the party to use it just as frequently. Just don't set the bar too low on what should award it, that's always at your discretion

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Better to give more inspiration than less though if you want another reason for your players to get really invested in their characters.

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As for general rules... don't be afraid to wing some things. You don't need a rule for literally every circumstance that comes up, that's what common sense is for. If a situation comes up that you don't have a rule answer to... improvise based on the situation. Just remember how you rule in case the same thing comes up later. There are some things that just have to be ruled on spur of the moment because you can't account for every possible situation.

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It might be important to have a pantheon of your gods for world building purposes (for example, bringing religious festivals to life in the towns they visit, that does a lot of good)

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But you might not, unless the plot happens to demand it, need to write extreme plot about all of them

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(the other side of inspiration, though.. is that since it's advantage.. you might need to consider how often the players might already seek advantage from other sources. If for example they already have advantage on attacks from a lot of sources.. it might be prudent to give them more effects that require saving throws, such as from harder traps [you did mention this is a thieves guild campaign] that might cause a side effect even if disarmed, without the correct key)

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(also, if from what I read above the players will be generally very powerful for their current state stat-wise, that's another reason to NOT go all-in on the rewarding bit for focusing on backstory, as it's supposed to help the character, not be all the character talks or references.. they do live in the PRESENT, after all.)

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One thing I've found when GMing is that in the right situations, common and uncommon magical items can often put in very good work much better than a general use item (like an arcane grimoire for a wizard, for example, that gives a lot of +1s)

abstract flicker
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i was just planning to give like +1 (weapon they use) or things like that

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i disagree very much about level of backstory at level 3 tho, i played a character who had like 4 short stories from his backstory before the game started and I'm doing that with the character I'm playing now who's level 2

tender terrace
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Well, what were their backstories like?

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There's a difference between a life backstory and accomplishments backstory

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(and that's ultimately where I look at the difference between inspiration and something like a feat reward)

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The other thing to remember is that these players aren't set in stone by their backstories.. things can change, especially within a thieves' guild where rivalries can lead to backstabbing and absconding with treasures for self-advancement.

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Still, really be aware of (if you want to go the +1 route) just how many bonuses they get. With a +1 longbow, a ranger can already have a +10 to hit by level 5, for example, and that's just from standard array.

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but similarly, another creature that managed to roll an 18 is gonna have a +9 to hit with even a +1 weapon at level 5. The same applies to items that apply modifiers to skill checks

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(I'm saying it's fine to have the minor buffs.. but you gotta pay attention to just how much or many they get, because it can very quickly break the game if you're not careful.. and editing enemy statblocks to potentially be just as powerful feature-wise as player characters might be setting you on a course to where you're less the neutral entity who controls the enemies and narrates and more trying to put one-up on your party.. which is NEVER good.)

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It's fine for fairly major antagonists of the adventure, but it shouldn't be the rank-and-file for the most part, at least, if you don't want your players to think you're conspiring against them.

abstract flicker
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if they're taking down enemies too easily you don't have to edit stat blocks you can just summon more lol

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also i don't understand giving inspiration for backstory? like their backstory happens before the game that's giving them insp before session 0 even that doesn't make sense

tender terrace
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Well, "you get this because backstory before the game" doesn't really make sense either

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or at least, it's incredibly abusable.

abstract flicker
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... how?

tender terrace
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It doesn't make sense from a balance perspective.

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I could write something easily about my family having been in the business for a long time before I came of age. Should that entitle me to the skilled feat? (This is obviously a summation)

abstract flicker
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I'm not worried about balance, like i said if the enemies are too easy i am God i can summon as many as i need to make the combat hard

tender terrace
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That's player vs. GM... do that if you want but that's not going to end well for anybody.

abstract flicker
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if you write a great story then yea

pale ibex
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Why would this be game breaking if that is the case..? A feat for good writing and backstory sounds fine, what do you do for your games? Have characters just have simple backgrounds then make them as they go?

tender terrace
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Some feats are fine for that sort of thing, blood.

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Some personality feats like Linguist are great

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But people could easily write their way into some of the more bullshit ones if they're being handed on a platter.

abstract flicker
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i also don't see how it's player vs dm if I'm literally rewarding them for effort they put in, I'm not against the players i am balancing which is exactly what you're complaining about

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no they can't, you can't easily write something really well

tender terrace
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You're saying "I can summon as many enemies as I want". That's true holistically but if you're gonna say, throw six waves of enemies at them because they took down the first five too fast... that doesn't really feel like they're actually doing anything.

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I'm not specifically against rewarding for good backstory, etc.. but I'd be very careful to what degree the rewards ARE.

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(I do write good backstories for my characters too.. but it's not about "what material can I get in the process of writing this?"

abstract flicker
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that's not the point. I'm trying to reward players who do that

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if they're trying to get an op feat i can just tell them it's op or edit the feat

tender terrace
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The issue I see is that at least some people if they know it's a possibility WILL aim for that stuff, or something like a cloak of protection or similar stuff that while not gamebreaking by itself, is just something that is going to make it more annoying to play with. I could be wrong practically and your players write up good stuff that isn't really abusing things.

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But let the agency of the rewards be purely on yourself to determine, not simply something like a known prized possession they previously had, if that's the route you want to take.

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(The player vs. DM bit is the "I can summon as many enemies as I want" kind of thing)

abstract flicker
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ya they can try that but i know what is op and can tell them no lol

tender terrace
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(all the other stuff I mostly agree with, and I've said the parts that I have issues with)

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If the players really get into the thievery bit, for example, they will learn to case places if they can.. and that includes learning the numbers of creatures there if possible..

abstract flicker
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i mean in one game i played i wrote a short story for my why my character had a war horse and got to have a war horse. the dm allowed it bc i gave a good enough reason

tender terrace
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Yeah, and that's for the most part fairly harmless

abstract flicker
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ya i don't understand why you think I'm gonna let the players have a cloak of protection

tender terrace
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Part of this reminds me a bit of adventurer league rules

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where people basically got to pick magical items off of a resource list.

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That's where I was worried that this might start comparing to.

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It might be a good idea to tell the players what kind of limits there are regarding a backstory "reward'

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Not to limit their engagement, but to save you headaches in dealing with it

abstract flicker
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I'm considering it but also the server i plan to open it in is full of people who heavily invest so I'm considering just not telling them about rewards and then give them based on what they create

tender terrace
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It's probably okay if you're policing but it feels fairly fraught with danger. I'd just be wary of any specific personal possessions that get mentioned. Although... those could make interesting plot points if they're turned into possible reclamations (i.e those items get stolen or removed prior to where they could have reached the character's hands, and the player might want to get it back)

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Even better potentially if they find their way into the hands of the thieves guild because the leader might consider it theirs now which might give a reason for a player or the whole party to mutiny

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(I apologize if I seemed argumentative before.. there's some things on both the GM and player sides that sometimes just set off big red flags for me)

abstract flicker
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yea i mean the whole point of the backstory is it creates plot lmao if they got something from stealing it there'll be interesting story

tender terrace
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(I'm just all about the "earn the thing" rather than having it handed to them. A Bag of Holding for example is something that, despite not being too uncommon, unironically hits a level 7 party generally much harder than a level 3, if you know what I mean)

abstract flicker
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well ya they are having to earn the thing

frail cedar
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Also, on the "backstory = get moar feat" topic: Every modification you make to the base rules of 5th edition will have unintended knock-on effects, as the mechanics in the system are bound extremely tightly to each other. Changing any one of them will have serious ramifications on others. The more of them you change, the more difficult the game gets to run as the unintended consequences pile up.

This is especially true in giving power to characters earlier on. The game expects no feats with a maximum of 17 (usually 16) in a character's primary attribute.

You can tweak the difficulty of encounters to compensate for that, but it usually takes years of playing the game to start to get a good feel for what sorts of changes are appropriate. There is a grave difference between make goblins hit harder and make more goblins, for example. giggle

I wish you luck on your adventure. Make as many mistakes as you like, this is a game of improvisation. Just don't be afraid to start over if it ever feels too overwhelming, and aim to keep it as simple as you can for your own sake. Managing 4-6 nerds is already quite a feat in itself. :)

abstract flicker
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yee thank you i do get that, i have been playing for over 10 years so i do have quite a good feel for well.. everything lol

dim owl
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"EXP gain based on character development and pivotal moments" is a little iffy: This may encourage people to be in as many pivotal moments as possible, which at first sounds like a good thing, but then becomes a problem as players may want to compete for the spotlight.