How to tune retract on moonraker timelapse

[rustic gorge]

I have installed moonraker timelapse, and i have Park Toolhead enabled, but i get horrible stringing, how would i go about tuning the retraction settings? is it just trial and error, or is there a better way like the retraction test calibration on orca?

[versed cradle]

Ahoi @rustic gorge!
Welcome to the Mainsail support-forum!
There is a problem with the tags you selected for this post. Please fix them to fit your question.
For further information on tags please check the readme: #readme message

To change the tags of this post:

1. Open the ... menu on the top right corner of this post.
2. Find Edit tags
3. Select the checkbox of the correct tags.

Usually you just need to select one tag!
If you still have no idea which one to choose, feel free to ask here.

Note: This is an automated message

Thanks for your cooperation!

[rustic gorge]

I have tried using the same settings as i would normally without the timelapse, but i still get horrible stringing

not really sure why that is

#nologsneeded

actually wait, i'll rerun the retraction test first, as im using a filament that has been sitting for a while outside of a drybox, so it might be wet, will get back to this if i still have the problem after redoing the retraction test and drying the filament

🙏 sorry to bother

[rustic gorge]

okay, i did the retraction test and its just stringing a tiny bit at the normal retraction settings i have, nowhere near what the timelapse park head had

btw this is what the stringing look like for when the park head is enabled for timelapse

this is what the retraction test look like going from 0mm to 1mm retraction distance @ 40mm/s

[rustic gorge]

this one is just supposed to be a cylinder printer at the center of the bed

these are the settings i used in the timelapse

i am usually printing at 0.2mm retraction distance @ 40mm/s

[rustic gorge]

please do ping me when replying

[low knot]

just use the same settings as you use in your slicer (if you dont have issues with normal prints without timelapse)

[crystal hill]

Also you should check, if it's happening during retraction or unretraction. I would think it's happening during the latter, and happening due to oozing of your nozzle. If that's the case, you just need to test the unretract distance and maybe increase the retract distance

[rustic gorge]

As I said earlier it's still stringing when using the normal retraction settings I used without timelapse, and yes when I don't have issues with normal prints without tinelapse

[rustic gorge]

It's during the retraction I think

[low knot]

this should not be possible, if you use the same settings... pls upload a gcode file

[crystal hill]

Check again

[rustic gorge]

yes ill verify again in a minute

[low knot]

your gcode is sliced with 0.2mm retract and 40mm/s. this should be too less for every extruder/hotend. so i dont think, that this printer will work with & without timelapse

[rustic gorge]

but look at this retraction test

and the printer is a sovol sv06

[low knot]

direct extruders are close to 0.8mm retract. less is near to impossible.

[rustic gorge]

dont know what to tell you, that's just the result im getting

i will try 1mm retract in timelapse and see how it goes

[low knot]

1mm could be too much for some hotends

[rustic gorge]

Oh and forgot to tell, the printing temperature is at 215 extruder and 60 bed

With some sunlu pla+

[rustic gorge]

Ah I noticed the nozzle was oozing when parking to the location

[crystal hill]

And that's exactly the problem. The oozing. Your travel is a lot further, most likely slower, it then parks and so on. This creates oozing, that you normally don't have

[low knot]

if you want "beautiful prints", then you should disable timelapse (or at least the parking). if you want "beautiful timelapse", you will have a less print quality

[rustic gorge]

that's not a problem for some people though, so it should be possible to get both

[low knot]

no

thats why idex or multi toolhead system needs flaps and purge stations. you will lose material in your nozzle, if you have to park.

if you park your hotend in the middle of the bed, you have a much shorter traveling. this will also improve the print quality, but you will never reach the quality like a print without parking.

[crystal hill]

If you minimize the parking time and tune your retraction perfectly for that parking, it's possible to achieve better results compared to no parking, but that's pretty hard and doesn't work on every machine.

[low knot]

and every print geometry and filament...

[rustic gorge]

okay well ig for now ill just disable parking head, but i have another question

i've got my old lenovo laptop as a klipper host, and i want to see the temperature in the temp graph in mainsail, i googled a bit and found that i need to add this:

sensor_type: temperature_host
min_temp: 10
max_temp: 100```

buut, apparently the directory doesn't exist

its running Ubuntu 24.04 LTS

[low knot]

here are the docs: https://www.klipper3d.org/Config_Reference.html#host-temperature-sensor

your settings (default sensor_path) only works for raspberry pi.

[rustic gorge]

ooh okay, do you know where the sensor_path for my laptop should be?

[low knot]

no. because i dont have the exact same laptop like you use... you have to config it for your specific hardware

[rustic gorge]

oh alright, thanks

[low knot]

np. if all questsions here are answered, pls close this post.

if you have another issue or need help with a differnt topic, pls open a new post.

[rustic gorge]

1 last question, do you know any resources that can help me find where sensor_path is? i've tried googling but no luck

the answers to the question would just tell me to install the package lm-sensors

[low knot]

you cannot google a specific hardware path. you have to search it on your system. like you did above

[rustic gorge]

alright thanks, i will close this post now

[misty ridge]

I have this exact same issue and no one has been able to provide a solution 😦
Seems the answer I keep seeing is it can’t be fixed don’t use Timelapse which is just weird. Before I rooted my printer I could do these types of time lapse videos and they were perfect so I know it’s possible

Any suggestions?

[low knot]

if it was possible before, it is also possibe after it, but perfect prints and timelapse are not possible

[misty ridge]

I’m not after “perfect prints” I’m after adequate ones or at least ones that were of the same quality before. Before I got the nebula pad and rooted it and I was just using the Creality cloud app these Timelapse’s worked very well. So it has to be possible to at least get decent prints. The quality this is giving me is abysmal.

[crystal hill]

I was just using the Creality cloud app
So you didn't use Klipper before? (we still don't know the printer) Then that's one of your answers. The second thing is different slicer settings. So most likely there is a lot different to your previous setup, maybe even way higher speeds. Therefore one problem might be that you are now printing way faster, and therefore the filament gets dragged off the print, before it can cooldown. Or you are now using way less retraction, or too fast retraction, or too slow retraction. Maybe it's using a different path now than before......

There can be a lot of factors

Btw I'm assuming you meant you bought the nebula pad and instantly rooted it. At least I understood your message that way

[misty ridge]

Ender 3 v3 se. I didn’t ssh [email protected] the nebula pad as soon as I bought it I used it without rooting it but wanted full access to klipper as I was getting some intermittent layer shifting issues. The ones that did work were working at the faster speeds on klipper and the Timelapse’s were perfect and the prints really good quality. What other information do you need?
Are you able to actually offer a suggestion on how to improve it? I understand there can be a lot of factors but it would be far more helpful if you simply tell me what you need to know aside from what I’ve already provided in order to maybe offer a suggestion.

[crystal hill]

I cannot provide any suggestions. I just wanted to let you know, what could be the factors (listed enough above). Best is always to compare the gcodes (speed, retraction lenght, path,...) from before and after. Then you might find the problem. Also you would have to compare the movement during the timelapses

If you want suggestions from me, you should provide exactly the stuff I just mentionend above. I don't have the nebula pad and no idea how they were doing the timelapses. Maybe they retracted a crazy amount of filament 🤷‍♂️

[misty ridge]

What exactly do you need to know. Can you just be specific

[crystal hill]

The gcode from before you rooted the pad and the movement during the timelapse from before you rooted it. That's specific and exactly what I wrote above

Without exact movement, so exactly what it's doing, it's impossible to say anything

[low knot]

did you also set up the retraction/detraction values in the timelapse settings to your normal sliced setting?

[misty ridge]

Yes

[low knot]

pls post a screenshot from your current settings

[low knot]

did you try to calibrate your retraction with timelapse enabled?

[misty ridge]

Yes

[low knot]

this cannot work

[misty ridge]

Care to elaborate

[low knot]

your slicer test only change the value in your gcode moves inside of the gcode file, but timelapse is an "external source". so your slice has no impact to it.

so every timelapse based move (go to the parking position for the snapshot) will be executed with the STATIC VALUES from your timelapse settings.

so this calibration tower is complete useless. so disable timelapse as long as you need to find good printing values, then copy these values to the timelapse settings and den test it again (maybe you have to use a little bit higher values in your timelapse settings, because the move is a little bit longer)

[misty ridge]

I have tested it by changing the values in the slicer AND in the Timelapse settings

Same result

[low knot]

so you changed it in your timelapse settings each layer?

[misty ridge]

What do you mean each layer. I changed these settings

[low knot]

you dont use firmware retraction in your gcode. so this could not work at all

(so i think it will not execute any retract during the move right now)

@misty ridge why do you select "firmware retraction" in your timelapse setting, when you dont use "firmware retraction"?

[misty ridge]

Yeah I’ve tried it with and without firmware retraction. I’ve only just changed it back

[low knot]

ok... so you just set random settings and then say "timelapse doesnt work"?

[low knot]

so do you know "good retraction" values for your printer?

[misty ridge]

Do you perhaps understand that to learn something you have to start somewhere. Maybe be a bit less rude to people who are trying to learn. I have tried researching this for over a week before coming to this forum. If I’ve made an error tell me don’t sarcastically point it out like I’m an idiot.

The default works fine without Timelapse so that’s the first thing I tried. To match the default values to the Timelapse settings

[low knot]

to be honest, every time i've asked you a question, you've written "i've done it" and your next answer or screenshot has shown exactly the opposite.

[misty ridge]

No it doesn’t lol. I have done these tests around 40 times so just because I’ve told you “I’ve done that” doesn’t mean my current settings reflect that because I’ve moved on from that because it doesn’t work. Maybe you should ask clarifying questions instead of just assuming I’m a halfwit

[low knot]

ok. do you want now help or only discuss? if you just want to discuss... you can also leave this server and search help on another place...

[misty ridge]

Of course I want help! You make a suggestion I tell you I’ve done that and you reply by saying the screenshot I sent you shows the opposite. I’m explaining that. If you just accepted what I told you when I said I’ve tried that then we would be further along

[low knot]

ok, then pls stop to discuss and wast our time...

[misty ridge]

I am still waiting for you to move on to another suggestion. Seems like you are the one hung up on this

[low knot]

at first, we need a "good printer base settings" where we can add timelapse. so disable timelapse, slice the same stringing test (like above) without any stringing tower function and post the gcode file, a screenshot from your slicer settings + a picture from the print (you can cut the height, if you dont want to print so long)

[misty ridge]

Ok I’ll try that

[low knot]

pls ping me, when you are finished the print

[crystal hill]

Maybe you should ask clarifying questions instead of just assuming I’m a halfwit
The problem is that we are supporting a lot of people that don't have a clue of anything. It's impossible to know how experienced people really are. Some people just "pretend" to know what they are doing, so we really have to work exactly on what's given. I can't really estimate your current skill level tbh. For me it sounds atm like you are trying random stuff and hope for the best. So I can understand mete a little bit.

About this message: #1259945695209848974 message
We don't know what you've tried. We need some specific values for specific results. We only saw one picture. So we assume your current settings reflect exactly that picture. We have to assume that, otherwise you would have to post something every single time you changed something on your own.
Therefore something like this

Yeah I’ve tried it with and without firmware retraction. I’ve only just changed it back
is basically like no information, as we didn't see the normal retraction values and no result for them. You still didn't send a screenshot without firmware retraction activated, with such a screenshot half of the discussion wouldn't be there.

[misty ridge]

Ok so here are the settings in the slicer and in the Timelapse settings via fluidd Ul. And the result. And the sliced gcode

[low knot]

was timelapse enabled or disabled?

[misty ridge]

Disabled

[low knot]

(the screenshot looks enabled)

[misty ridge]

Yes sorry I didn’t mean to include that one

But I removed the gcode from the slicer that told it to pause and take a Timelapse so it didn’t do that

[low knot]

so your print looks the same with disabled timelapse?

[misty ridge]

Yeah print is perfect with Timelapse disables

Disabled

[low knot]

this picture looks not "perfect" for me

[misty ridge]

Oh I’m sorry! I have a lot of screenshots on my phone and little sleep. Let me try this again.

This was the quality I got. I removed the Timelapse gcode from the slicer

These are the base settings

And I shared the sliced gcode above

[low knot]

now disable "firmware retraction" here and post a screenshot pls

[low knot]

and why do you override your printer settings in your printer profile?

[misty ridge]

Firmware retraction was disabled in Timelapse settings already when I printed this

[low knot]

ok. then i'm out here... maybe another person can help you.

[misty ridge]

I don’t override them. If I leave them unchecked they don’t show the values so to show you the values I checked them. I’ve not changed the values at all

[low knot]

i tried it now multiple times, but it looks like you dont want my help

[misty ridge]

I’m so confused you told me to do a print without Timelapse enabled. I did that. Then you said turn off firmware retraction for Timelapse? Are you wanting me to turn Timelapse back on now and test again?

I do want your help I’m just not understanding what you mean

You told me to turn it off and all I said was it was off. How does that result in me not wanting your help?

[low knot]

when i ask for a screenshot from some settings, why is it so difficult to just post it and dont discuss about it?

[misty ridge]

Because I am not understanding what you want me to screenshot! I’m trying to understand you and you are getting pissy at me like I’m trying to be difficult and I’m not. What do you want a screenshot of

[low knot]

#1259945695209848974 message

[low knot]

then just ask it and dont write the five times "Firmware retraction was disabled..."

just post it or leave it... i'm not here for discuss

[misty ridge]

I had already shared this screenshot so you can understand why I was confused

[low knot]

ok. here are multiple wrong values in it.

pls change:

• Park Extrude Distance: 0.8
• Park Extrude Speed: 45

in a normal setup, park extrude and park retraction should be the same settings.

[low knot]

no. only with enabled "firmware retraction" and then there are some fields missing which i need to check!

do you want to continue the discussion when i need information from you or can i just help you?

[misty ridge]

You don’t have to be so rude mate I’m just trying to get some help. So what should I change the values to and then should I do another test with Timelapse on again

?

[low knot]

#1259945695209848974 message

i wrote already the values...

[misty ridge]

Ok. And then turn Timelapse on and do another test?

[low knot]

yes pls

and then post another foto from the result

[misty ridge]

Ok will do

[low knot]

ok sry. i just read now your post here and then the screenshot from your values are "wrong"

pls disable all of that again and then post your printer settings and doublecheck if you have also disabled these settings in your filament "overwrite settings"

normally these values are "printer settings". but you can overrite it in filament and print settings

but now i have to go to bed. pls post all again, doublecheck your slicer settings with your timelapse settings and reprint the test and post the results here. i will check it tomorrow

[misty ridge]

Ok disabled these which are in the filament settings

And these are the printer ones

So I’m matching the Timelapse settings to the printer ones and testing again. Thanks I’ll do that now and chat to you later. Thanks for your help

[low knot]

And the values were also disabled while you printed the test above? 0.5mm retract sounds like a very low value. 0.8 from the first one sounds "normal"

[low knot]

Pls post your timelapse settings again

[misty ridge]

Yes.
0.5 is the default in printer settings. Shall I change it to 0.8?

I changed to match printer settings

[low knot]

If it fits for your printer, you don't have to change it. That was the reason, why I ask for a print without timelapse enabled. Just to double check it.

[low knot]

Looks right

[misty ridge]

Ok I’ll do a print now

[low knot]

You can slice your file with timelapse in it and print it twice. One time with timelapse enabled in the frontend and one time disabled. Just to double check if your slicer settings also fit

[misty ridge]

Ok

[low knot]

Ok. Pls post all results + gcode here, that I can check it tomorrow

[misty ridge]

Ok

[misty ridge]

TIMELAPSE ENABLED

TIMELAPSE DISABLED

PRINTER SETTINGS (unchanged for both tests)

TIMELAPSE SETTINGS (unchanged for both tests)

[low knot]

can you please disable this setting and reprint without timelapse:

this is right now the only difference and timelapse is not able to wipe. but the wipe could explain the very low retract lengh. if it looks identical like the timelapse one without wipe, you can tune your retract without wipe and change then the settings in the timelapse options

[misty ridge]

So let me make sure I understand properly. Disabled wipe while retract and print again with no Timelapse and if it prints like the one with Timelapse then to tune the retraction length. Is that right?

[low knot]

yes! thats my idea right now

you can also tune your reetraction speed. maybe 30 is also too less. for my printers for example is 45mm/s the sweet spot.

[misty ridge]

Ok I’ll run the non Timelapse test with that unchecked soon and post results 🙂

[low knot]

perfect!

[misty ridge]

Ok ran another print with wipe while retracting turned off and Timelapse turned off and it printed great

[low knot]

how do you disabled retracting? just enter a 0 at the length?

[rustic gorge]

wipe while retracting turned off

[misty ridge]

Sorry I just unchecked the wipe while retracting. That’s the only thing I changed

Yes Adib that’s what I did

[rustic gorge]

yes i know, i was just quoting what you said ^^, because seems like theres a bit of a misunderstanding

[misty ridge]

Oh thank you 🙂

[low knot]

ah ok. sry. i missinterpretated it. pls upload this gcode to double check the motions during retract. looks wired, when this work, but the gcode in timelapse doesnt work (because it should do exaclty the same now)

[misty ridge]

Sorry just to be clear you want me to upload the gcode I just sliced and tested here?

[low knot]

yes. the last one with "wipe while retracting" disabled

[misty ridge]

Ok hang on

[misty ridge]

Here it is

[low knot]

sry. i'm at my daily job right now. i will doublecheck it as soon as possible

[misty ridge]

Oh no worries take your time!

[low knot]

sry for the delay. i checked now the code and see that you have the calibration also enabled? i thought you print it without the calibration function. so you have 2mm retract at the top instead of 0.5 (which we use in the timelapse settings).

pls slice this object "normal" without the calibration function and print it.

[misty ridge]

Oh I normally turn that off but I must have forgotten this time. I’ll change it in the morning and post the results! Thanks

[low knot]

a retract calibration cannot work with timelapse, because timelapse has a "fixed" retract/detract length

[rustic gorge]

i might as well do this then since this might go somewhere

but i can't because wet filament 😭

ill go dry it tonight and will try doing this

[low knot]

Yeah... Wet filament is the worst case for stringing tests 🙈

[rustic gorge]

Almost 80% humidity indoor where I print 🙈

Time to test out the DHT22 sensor while it's drying

[rustic gorge]

Looking good so far

[misty ridge]

So I was just about to run the test again without calibration but I saw that I don’t have any calibration setting turned on in orca. I had a look at the gcode and I think (I could be very wrong) but the calibration your seeing is because it’s a retraction test and it’s calibrating and changing the values on each layer to perform the retraction test. Could that be what you are seeing?

[low knot]

If you create this object in orcaslicer as a retraction calibration, this is enabled. Pls download a STL from any platform and use this instead of the auto-generated

[misty ridge]

Ok

[rustic gorge]

Also just a quick question, does changing the timelapse setting mid print will apply automatically? For example the retraction settings, or will it use the setting as when the print started?

Also I tried tuning it again, but I'm getting the same result, even with 1mm retraction @45mm/s, I did run a retraction test and the sweet spot seems to be at 0.4mm @45mm/s

[low knot]

the interface just write it back in a macro variable (you should see it in the terminal) and it will be used instant

[low knot]

maybe you only changed 1 value and not both?

without a screenshot, its not possible to debug...

[rustic gorge]

Okay let's just start over...

This is a picture of a retraction test from orcaslicer with no timelapse at 45mm/s, the distance is from 0-1mm with a step of 0.1mm

And this is a picture of a print of a retraction test STL (so no varying retraction distance or speed) with 0.5mm retraction at 45mm/s with timelapse on and retraction the same as slicer settings

I've set the timelapse park toolhead to center

I'm gonna print the same file, same gcode, but turning off timelapse, will send a pic once conpleted

This is the same gcode but with timelapse disabled

Here's the settings of the timelapse

Filament is Sunlu PLA+ printed at 225c and 60c bed, but keep in mind that I'm using steel hardened CHT nozzle

and i call the TIMELAPSE_TAKE_FRAME before layer change in the slicer

And I also noticed that it stops for like 1 second to take the frame, just putting this out there just in case this has something to do with it

[rustic gorge]

So... anyway to reduce the time to take a frame?

i already have auto focus disabled

[crystal hill]

That's like half a second. So only thing to further decrease it, would be to remove every single delay, let it faster park and retract & unretract and such kind of things

You park time is at like 0.1s

So I would say, only faster thing would be no parking at all

[crystal hill]

In the end the easiest way to get rid of such things is to not use parking. Everything else has to be tuned with retract settings.
Such a print is most likely an oozing nozzle, as we most likely already wrote pretty much in the beginning. So there is a little bit of filament that's still at the bottom of your nozzle and sticking to the plastic.
A higher retraction lenght, or faster retracting might help, but in the end, timelapse isn't doing rocket science and just executes simple commands, so there is no wiping or similar. Therefore moving the gcode to after the layer change, might help too