#lore

1 messages ยท Page 20 of 1

hushed nest
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true, but decades of students with a consensus of loathing might say something. XD

reef kindle
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not evil or supremacist but eternally lazy ๐Ÿ˜„

hushed nest
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lmao. we could be providing him crucial information about something that could endanger the school and he'd be like, "whatever."

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the opposite of dumbledore.

reef kindle
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cushy job on account of family connections ๐Ÿ˜„

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pretty much an anti-Dippet, anti-Dumbledore era that would somewhat explain the marked difference after Headmaster Black

hushed nest
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"so YOU'RE the reason i have to fill out all this paperwork to catch you up on FOUR years of schooling??"

vivid owl
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do remember he was a teacher for apparently some 20-30 years before becoming headmaster

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and was known to be a grumpy person most his life

dire folio
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Id love that for us.

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Unlike dumbledore with his reassuring nonsense, just straight up "idgf"

hushed nest
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heheh yeah. XD

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it'd be even worse if the player is actually muggle born 'cause then he'd be twice less likely to tolerate us.

dire folio
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Thats what i aspire to be

reef kindle
dire folio
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Maybe mc is... Goblinborn

reef kindle
hushed nest
dim pawn
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I do want to find out more for the other schools, they sound so fascinating especially Uagarou and the Chinese School of magic with their robes colour change ๐Ÿ˜„

reef kindle
dim pawn
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And yeah, Uagadou did create the most powerful wizards and witches I believe ๐Ÿ˜„ They are the only school that can use wandless magic

reef kindle
dim pawn
reef kindle
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again, the Japanese school uses and teaches wandless magic, Ilvermorny is founded by European immigrants to the Americas and we know nothing of the Brazilian school, but it seems to practice a dance like rite for calling on magical powers

dim pawn
reef kindle
# dim pawn I don't think that it is mentioned anywhere that the Japanese school is teaching...

it is deductible as the first time they've seen a wand when the adventurous Hogwarts students, whom were trying to fly around the world on their brooms, were blown off course and ended up in a dire situation when Japanese wizards from their school came and rescued them. After nursing the European wizards back to health, as a thank you they thought them Quidditch which they came to regret greatly in the years to follow as the Japanese were practicing in the biggest of hails, as opposed to the European practice ๐Ÿ˜„

hushed nest
reef kindle
hushed nest
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(forgive me as i am not familiar with fantastic beasts) my point still stands, the wand regulations and hierarchy of beings is arbitrary as heck.

reef kindle
hushed nest
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๐Ÿ˜…

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this is getting a little too meta.

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makes me wish these systemic issues were dealt within the books.

reef kindle
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oh but why should they be dealt with? history is what it was, we should learn from the examples, not forbade them

hushed nest
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that is fair, but it is a little frustrating for me knowing even in the 2000s these issues have not been addressed with any formal abolishment.

merry ruin
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Hope the herbology teacher is a head of a house

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(Hopefully RavenClaw)

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Dnc

hushed nest
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i hope that quirky charms professor is the slytherin head!
also, what is "Dnc"? :0

tacit rivet
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Cuz they always seem to connect herbology with hufflepuff for some reason

merry ruin
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Ik

merry ruin
hushed nest
# merry ruin Do not care

ah, fair. i do not really care what house sheโ€™ll be either but a ravenclaw could be fun then the usual stereotypical hufflepuff!

reef kindle
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Herbology Prof is the era's heartthrob, nuff said ๐Ÿ˜„

tacit rivet
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Id laugh if shes a slytherin

reef kindle
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Slytherin symbols on the cloak of the charms prof says otherwise

tacit rivet
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Maybe she isnt a head of a house

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But still think she prob a hufflepuff

merry ruin
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A great teacher

hushed nest
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i understand that reasoning but i find myself partial to hufflepuffs in that regard. ๐Ÿ‘€

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i may be biased because my partner is one

tawny lintel
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Personally, I'd rather not have the Herbology teacher as the head of Hufflepuff. I want somebody who stands out more and doesn't give off the classic Hufflepuff vibes. Somebody like the Potions professor as head of Hufflepuff would be pretty cool.

vivid owl
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I think it'd be interesting to see the herbology teacher who seems super nice to be the head of Slytherin, just cos imagine if that was the case, it'd be a major change in how people would potentially see Slytherin

merry ruin
vivid owl
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Plus her outfit is very green

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so

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potentially

hushed nest
tawny lintel
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It'd be cool to see the personalities changed up, but also the class that the heads of the houses teach.
The likelyhood that every herbology teacher is a hufflepuff, or potions teacher a slytherin seems very slim to me.

vivid owl
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Also cos Slytherin has so far had 2 heads of house who are potions professors, can we not have a 3rd one please

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Honestly though I'd just like to see variation

tacit rivet
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Potions professor??? Nah I cannot see that. Maybe the one professor that is seen in the great hall scene.

tawny lintel
tacit rivet
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Trueee we can only figure it out end december!

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Would be funny if hes hufflepuff hahaha.

reef kindle
half patio
green moth
# half patio same, he had snakes on his robe in the trailer

His attitude seemed pretty slytherin-esque as well. Not in a cunning, devious, evil way like we're used to, but more with a focus on confidence and ambition. He seems like he wants his students to be ambitious enough to reach their full potential which would make him an ideal head for slytherin house.

half patio
green moth
half patio
green moth
half patio
reef kindle
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"In some pureblood families, such as the Blacks, the house-elves would be beheaded when they were too old to carry tea trays. This practice was invented by Elladora Black." charming people...

tropic jewel
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i wonder how long house elves live for

reef kindle
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based on Kreacher, probably a couple generations of humans

tropic jewel
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human generations range from 20-25 years or so last i researched.

reef kindle
tropic jewel
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yeah that makes sense. probably a few centuries

reef kindle
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Sirius Black II was born 1877, which makes him 13 years old in 1890, and a 3rd year at Hogwarts from the 1st September onwards.

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this Sirius is Harry's Godfather's great-great-grandfather, the son of Phineas Nigellus Black and Ursula Flint

reef kindle
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the famous potioneer Sacharissa Tugwood was born in 1874, which makes her 16 years old at the start of the game and she either will be a 5th year with us or a year above us, she had her own chocolate frog card, she was the first person to use magical beauty potions, many she developed herself

vivid owl
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Going to be lots of interesting people at Hogwarts for us to meet

reef kindle
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my hope exactly

past nacelle
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True.

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Also, plenty of interesting folks outside Hogwarts too. Victor Rookwood, anyone?

reef kindle
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I'm doing a wee light reading on squibs

past nacelle
reef kindle
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no mention in any shape or form that it is remotely possible for them to learn magic as evidenced by the futile attempts by Argus Filch

reef kindle
vivid owl
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Yet it seems some squibs can make potions, which requires magic in a different way

past nacelle
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That could possibly be closer to Wiccan-esque potions than Wizarding World, from what I think of it.

vivid owl
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there's the whole thing that the ladle acts like a focus, guiding a persons magic into the potion, so obviously there is a level of squib that can do that but yet still can't draw up enough concentrated magic to cast a spell

reef kindle
vivid owl
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perhaps Filch is one of those and why he tries with the Kwik-spell course is cos he can infuse a potion with magic but yet can't seemingly get a lumos to work

past nacelle
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And can also see magical creatures, like Dementors.

vivid owl
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yeah

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so squibs do have some level of magic, there is just some problem with getting the magic out

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yet for some reason potion making works for some

past nacelle
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That'd explain why people thought Neville was just a step above squibs when he started out, turns out - he had an incompatible wand.

reef kindle
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considering that Arabella Figg is keeping a menagerie of half kneazel, half cats.. ๐Ÿ˜„

past nacelle
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She's still a crazy cat lady, if there ever was one. xD

vivid owl
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it's rather unexplained and I'm not sure it's something that would ever be fully explained, but squibs at least have more magic than a muggle

reef kindle
past nacelle
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It's like a full glass to a glass half-full kind of thing, if I had compare it. Half-full being squibs and full being wizards and witches.

reef kindle
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also, there is a paradox, muggle-born wizards are most likely descended from squibs yet not a single squib we know who had a child

past nacelle
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Or glass half-empty, depending how you see 'half-full/half-empty' thing.

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Possibly it skips a few generations until it reintroduces.

vivid owl
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oh come on

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Annoying human species names

reef kindle
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oh ๐Ÿ˜„

vivid owl
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I was trying to say about how I don't thing "muggle-borns" are descended from squibs generally (some may be) in that if so it'd make magicals there own branch of humanity like Neanderthals.

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They'd be able to intermingle with normal humans but would otherwise have different genes and potentially even skeletal structure

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whereas I like to believe that muggle-borns are generally new magic appearing in people randomly

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that way it's not always a bloodline thing

reef kindle
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yeah, I'm with you on that, let's say that the concentration of magic in the blood can be accumulated by successive generations creating a new witch or wizard, sounds better then the 'Santa Sangue' ideology

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although now that I see it in writing, it dangerously edging close to the midichlorians ๐Ÿ˜„

hushed nest
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if we are making star wars analogies, when it comes to magic i believe in the โ€œit exists everywhere and anyone can tap into it if they open themselves to itโ€ theory.

vivid owl
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I'd assume you mean like say they are exposed via an outside source (be it a magical living nearby, or some natural magic) and that said magic seeps into them, collecting into a magical core, in them it'll never be strong enough to be recognised even as a squib, but if their children experience similar levels of surrounding magic then they'd be changed by it as well

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which I'd say is more of a radiation analogy

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lol

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magic is just radiation and all magicals are mutants

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they've mutated to be able to harness the radiation that they are constantly exposed to

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actually that's not the worst idea

reef kindle
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okay, now it is another professor, with name of X that comes to mind ๐Ÿ˜„

vivid owl
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I'd more look at life within the Chernobyl exclusion zone and how it has been effected by the long term effects of radiation there.

past nacelle
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Hahah.

vivid owl
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Like we don't really know a lot cos there aren't that many studies (staying in the zone for more than 2 weeks at a time isn't recommended as was found out by a load of Russians recently), but the animals there might be slowly adapating to deal with it over successive generations

reef kindle
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but yes, essentially I mean that the magic that affects a living being can send all of its worth down to the offspring and so it goes

vivid owl
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and say magicals are like that, over generations of exposure to magical sources, they adapted to deal with it and even harness it

reef kindle
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magic does not dissipates, merely the ability to harness it

past nacelle
vivid owl
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honestly conjecture, but still interesting idea

reef kindle
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and there are the unfortunate instances like Arianna Dumbledore, where the magic becomes overwhelming and uncontrollable, like a thunderstorm

vivid owl
past nacelle
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Yeah, Obscurials are the poor sods who's body and mind can't handle the magic within them so it seeks to lash out and escape, from what I understand of them.

reef kindle
past nacelle
reef kindle
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severe levels of inbreeding, essentially the magicals are the Habsburg of Spain...

vivid owl
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Certainly the Black family are

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well specifically Sirius's parents

reef kindle
vivid owl
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I mean luckily there aren't consistent levels of marrying 2nd cousins or even aunts and uncles, so it's not too bad, but it was bordering on getting there

past nacelle
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Yeah, Black family slowly bordering the Gaunt family on levels of insanity.

vivid owl
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reminds me of my CK2 campaign where I managed to spread my family over most of northern Europe and could happily marry my own 7th cousin who had the same surname as me. lol.

reef kindle
vivid owl
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Talk about "keeping it in the family"

reef kindle
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I usually run out of duchies to award to my cousins ๐Ÿ˜„

past nacelle
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I always did think the Black family motto was twisted over time. It could've meant 'Always Pure' in magic rather than blood then they fell into blood purity and the motto changed.

vivid owl
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mind you, 4th cousins share about 2-5% of their DNA, and 5th cousins less than 1% of their DNA, so it's only out to 3rd cousins that you seriously need to avoid

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could have meant "Always Pure" in beliefs or in actions, or in never using dark magic or in only using dark magic, or in a variety of ways

past nacelle
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Also true.

reef kindle
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or it could be just a twisted Sangueist ideology from the beginning, hard to say, really

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btw, I call it Sangueist form now on, pureblooded supremacist is just too long to type ๐Ÿ˜„

past nacelle
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That actually sounds better, to be honest.

vivid owl
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that's fair

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and would use the pig latin that is common throughout HP already

past nacelle
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Also sounds like a vampiric branch of magic, haha.

vivid owl
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certainly better than "Magichorism"

reef kindle
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omg ๐Ÿ˜„

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that's a mouthful alright

vivid owl
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being a smash together of "magic" "ichor" and "ism"

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ichor means blood

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so magical blood-ism

reef kindle
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yes, I understand it, it's just so... I don't know, almost German ๐Ÿ˜„

vivid owl
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lol

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it technically works though

reef kindle
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it does

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but Rowling wrote a lot of notes on bloodlines and blood related things, think about Lily's protection on Harry, blood magic / ancient magic

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Dumbledore's sacrifice to be let in to the cave of the inferi, also blood

vivid owl
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We'll put it to a poll
Do you believe Pureblood Supremacy should be retitled as either:
1๏ธโƒฃ Sangueist
2๏ธโƒฃ Magichorism

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lol

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and yeah a lot of European works have bloodline stuffs in them

past nacelle
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Blood magic, I'd imagine is quite esoteric and important. It's just unfortunately, Tom Riddle/Voldemort didn't quite understand that, broken as he was both in sense of self and mentally.

reef kindle
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1๏ธโƒฃ for me, it's the shorter word ๐Ÿ˜„

vivid owl
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I think what Lily did was something pulled out of an old old Potter or even Peverell notebook.

reef kindle
vivid owl
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Family Magics stuff, which whilst I'm not one to follow the idea of family magics being sentient magic within a family, I do believe it's basically a load of spells and potions that family members have made over the years and then never told anyone outside the family.

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So my thought is they knew Moldyshorts was coming for them, so James said "Lily, you're a genius, he's access to the Potter archives, we've got 700 years of Potter family secret magic here, plus some stuff from the Peverell family, have at it and see what protections you can come up with for Harry"

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So she did and voila we have Harry surviving the killing curse

past nacelle
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Possibly. Could also be why, personally - I think Dumbedore tampering with it might've backfired on Harry in a way, negatively affecting the Dursleys. I mean, I'm pretty sure he's never really called them his family, nor called Privet Drive his home and so wouldn't that basically mean the supposed blood wards or protection was flimsy and weak? At least that's one theory for it.

reef kindle
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yeah, now that is where I question Dumbledore's judgement, he asks for the cloak as he doesn't trust James to stay put, but if he is in hiding, wouldn't he been safer fully armed and cloaked?

past nacelle
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Well, we know wizards can get a bit...off the older they get. Dumbedore, being older than most might have some slight malfunction.

vivid owl
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Agreed, the blood wards that would have probably protected Harry his entire life were instead altered by Dumbles and bound to the Dursley's house until Harry's majority meaning when he turns 17 they crumble, though they were already weakened by Harry not calling the place home.

reef kindle
past nacelle
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Dumbledore in a nutshell.

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But yeah, it might have had a massively negative influence on the Dursleys due to two reasons a) not being actually related to the Potters for the family magic to kick in, regardless of Lily's blood and b) not being magical.

vivid owl
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The fact that the man still uses the phrase "For the greater good," some 50 years after his defeat of Grindelwald, the man who used said phrase as a slogan for the murder and enslavement of muggles, yeah it's not great

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sure Dumbles created the phrase, but Grindelwald is the one it's known for

past nacelle
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One could argue Dumbledore was stuck living in the past, because he couldn't let go of things and was trying to make up for it only to make things worse...or if you're determined to see the worst in him, he's a dark lord in light disguise.

vivid owl
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The thing is he sees only his way forward

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so even if a better alternative appears, he wont take it because it doesn't match his view

past nacelle
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That'd be the arrogance that comes with living a long life, holding his positions and believing his own reputation over time.

vivid owl
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I think even before he got those positions he had that arrogance

reef kindle
vivid owl
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It was revealed that after his mother died and he had to look after the family, he found it infuriating because he thought they were stopping him from doing all the amazing things he thought he could do

past nacelle
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True, you could argue Hermione has a similar arrogance to her due to just how damn intelligent she is. I think that's just a somewhat natural thing for incredibly intelligent people..

reef kindle
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I think he had the Elder Wand a little too long, started to see challenges where none existed

vivid owl
past nacelle
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Possibly the wand affecting him too. I mean, for cryin' out loud - it might as well be a cursed wand, soaked in the blood of it's victims and wielders and has a subtle, insidious effect on those who wield it for too long.

reef kindle
past nacelle
vivid owl
past nacelle
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I think she slowly grows and matures from that as the series goes on, but yeah. I can see it.

vivid owl
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The fact that she mellows out so much is mostly due to self assuredness for her, she knows she's good enough

past nacelle
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I still don't think she'd be a good match for Ron though, gods I can't get over that pairing or the Harry/Ginny one. It just feels all kinds of wrong, to me.

reef kindle
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I think she mellows out because JK knew that a too smart a girl is not attractive and Won Won needed a serious relationship ๐Ÿ˜„

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okay, so how about relationships, what do we know about that in the wizarding world?

vivid owl
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I don't mind the Ron/Hermione relationship because they are comfortable in their roles. Ron isn't ever jealous or upset at Hermione for being smarter than him, he just accepts it and does what he does.

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relationships in the magical world?

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well most seem to work like normal

past nacelle
# reef kindle I think she mellows out because JK knew that a too smart a girl is not attractiv...

Hey! I disagree with that. Being intelligent and too damn smart can be attractive, it just requires certain types of people to be interested in it. Certainly, wouldn't be Won Won with how often those two argued like cats and dogs over just about everything. That didn't scream sexual tension to me, that just screamed clashing personalities and butting heads as people are won't to do. Gods, the home life would be murder and Ron would be sleeping on the couch more often than not. Jeez.

reef kindle
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except that there is a history of abuse and misuse of potions and mind control in the name of love ๐Ÿ™‚

vivid owl
# vivid owl well most seem to work like normal

though, here come the Blacks again to throw a spanner in the works with the fact that Andromeda was originally meant to marry Lucius, as in a marriage contract, a betrothal, but she rank off with Ted Tonks and Narcissa had to instead.

past nacelle
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Ahem Molly, anybody? I'm pretty sure she low-key confessed to that in PoA and it did give the girls a giggle...

reef kindle
vivid owl
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Oh and we have the extra info of Dorea Black was meant to marry some minor French noble, but instead fell in love with Charlus Potter and ran off to marry him, though didn't get disowned for it.

vivid owl
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Though still not good

past nacelle
vivid owl
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then there's the whole Merope/Tom Riddle Sr. thing. That poor man literally had no say in the matter at all. No wonder he ran the moment she stopped dosing him.

past nacelle
vivid owl
elder marsh
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do you think we will see any of the lestrange family in the game?

vivid owl
vivid owl
reef kindle
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well, I can tell you I'm happy I'm not a spotty teenager with love angst in the wizarding world surrounded by my peers ๐Ÿ˜„

past nacelle
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They're not that big of a name, only reason they got a big name in the series was because of select few. And I think they're a foreign origin family, much like the Malfoy's.

vivid owl
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although not cos Leta's father was the French Lestrange and not the British ones. Which makes it weird she went to Hogwarts but eh.

foggy gazelle
past nacelle
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Bellatrix Lestrange nee Black didn't help matters, in that regard. She probably sunk all good credibility that family had down into the gutter with how mad she was.

reef kindle
past nacelle
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Yeah, she's obvious of Indian origin. Much like the Patil twins of Harry's time.

vivid owl
past nacelle
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Although, speaking of Bellatrix - was she crazy to begin with or did her dive into dark magic and/or something specific set her off to be that crazy? Because looking at Narcissa and Andromeda, the sisters were supposedly a tight knit bunch until they fractured so where does her crazy come from? You can argue all Blacks are a bit mad but then again, Narcissa didn't seem to really have the Black Madness and most of Sirius' madness was from being in Azkaban for twelve years so...

reef kindle
past nacelle
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Huh, I was under the impression the accent was Indian but then again, I'm not that familiar with accents to say nor with foreign names.

reef kindle
elder marsh
vivid owl
past nacelle
# reef kindle Bellatrix was in Azkaban a few years longer than Sirius

Also true, but she was also supposedly crazy before Azkaban and I don't know about you, but people don't just suddenly go crazy. There's usually a trigger event, or something for it...Oof, just thought - what if the family fracturing from Andromeda running away with Ted Tonks was the event. Especially with how reportedly tight knit the three girls were.

vivid owl
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and Azkaban didn't help

foggy gazelle
vivid owl
vivid owl
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Also why was she on a ship?

past nacelle
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I'd say so, I think it might've been around that time.

vivid owl
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International Floo Terminals exist

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as do international portkeys

past nacelle
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She's a classy type with taste for the long voyage? Perhaps.

reef kindle
foggy gazelle
vivid owl
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maybe it's cos of kid brother and that babies can't be sent through the floo or by portkey without being harmed by all the spinning

past nacelle
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Yeah, floo and portkeys don't sound healthy for young kids or babies.

vivid owl
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which is perhaps why Lily didn't apparate away with Harry (as it's unkown if the cottage had anti-apparition wards)

foggy gazelle
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Oh, that does make sense!

reef kindle
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as I was implying, father was the parent of the year from 1880 to 1945 straight

vivid owl
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so many wizarding parents going for that "Parent of the year" contest

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Walburga edging out ahead with what she did to Sirius

reef kindle
past nacelle
foggy gazelle
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It would make sense for them to have all types of protective spells and wards, since the whole point of that was to make them so hidden only like two people knew where they were

vivid owl
past nacelle
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Question - who set the Fidelius charm on the Potter's house? Was it ever mentioned? Because I'm under the impression that the secret keeper, the caster and the people living within the household would need to be gathered together to pull the spell off, as it's a notoriously obscure and difficult charm.

vivid owl
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So as the controllers of the wards, wouldn't Lily and James have been able to set exceptions for themselves?

reef kindle
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I think it had to be Wormtail, and his betrayal was perfect

vivid owl
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and yeah the Fidelius is sometimes unclear on how its cast, whether it needs a separate caster who assigns the knowledge into a person

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its just simply an unknown as we've never seen it done

past nacelle
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I..I doubt Wormtail could've cast the spell, he doesn't seem to be powerful enough to cast that charm. Lily, possibly - she was supposedly a budding Charms Master/Mistress.

vivid owl
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Dumbles apparently cast one over 12 Grimmauld Place

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but it's not said how

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also what happens to people who already knew the information before the charm is cast

foggy gazelle
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I doubt they just forget

past nacelle
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Also, in before the fan theory of 'Dumbledore cast the spell - knew the secret keeper was Wormtail - still let Sirius be imprisoned withour trail! HE'S AN EVIL OVERLORD IN DISGUISE!' bandwagon comes out to play.

reef kindle
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Fidelius charm is explained as an extremely old spell, one of the most ancient of all, this bodes well for us, I should think

past nacelle
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Correction - crackpot fan theory. Ahem.

vivid owl
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I've seen some bring it up that Bathilda Bagshot may have known the Potters whilst they lived in Godrics Hollow (which btw, I think that cottage is meant to be Dumbledores old one from when they moved there from Mould-on-the-Wold) and had potentially even looked after Harry whilst they were fighting Moldyshort's forces.

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Yet what would have happened when the fidellius was cast? would there just be a block in her mind creating an empty patch when she tries to think about what she was doing on those days?

reef kindle
vivid owl
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yeah

past nacelle
# vivid owl I've seen some bring it up that Bathilda Bagshot may have known the Potters whil...

It'd make sense, if you want to really go with Dumbledore looking to Harry as the grandson he never had and vice versa. He could've given them the place to stay, checked on 'em from time to time and looked after little Harry now and then. Especially with how invested he was to either stop the prophecy from coming to pass while Harry was that young or to manipulate events because..y'know, that's kind of his thing, to a degree...I wrote all that and then realized you were talking about Bathilda Bagshot..dammit.. xD

reef kindle
#

"Dumbledoreโ€™s Secret-Keeper for the Order, you know โ€” nobody can find headquarters unless he tells them personally where it is โ€” that note Moody showed you last night, that was from Dumbledore."
โ€” The Order casted the Filelius Charm on 12 Grimmauld Place

vivid owl
# past nacelle Also, in before the fan theory of 'Dumbledore cast the spell - knew the secret k...

This is more believeable than it'd first seem.

Dumbles thinks Harry is a Horcrux but if he isn't then raising someone who'd die in the attempt to fight Riddle is good cos it allows Dumbles to swoop in and finish him off and claim the credit.

But Sirius is a threat to that. He'd care for Harry and Harry wouldn't be too willing to walk to his death if he had a loving home to go back to.

Think about it, Dumbledore is the most politically powerful person in the Wizarding World. He's Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot and so can call for trials. He's the Supreme Mugwump of the International Confederation of Wizards, and so can call for international trials.

Yet despite this after he has evidence of Sirius being innocent in his hands, he does nothing. Making Sirius spend more time on the run and less time able to be with Harry.

#

Also note the Longbottoms didn't go into hiding under fidellius, only the Potters did

#

if you're Moldyshorts, what would seem like it's more important, the defended thing or the hidden and defended thing?

#

obviously the latter, so he goes for the Potters

past nacelle
#

Or the Longbottoms didn't trust Dumbledore and just hid under their family wards and such, only to either be set upon from within by someone pointing the crazy Death Eaters at them or they were under a Fidelius and once it got taken down, then they were attacked.

reef kindle
#

when Albus Dumbledore (primary Keeper) was killed, the members of the Order of the Phoenix automatically became Secret-Keepers for the HQ - another exert from the fidelius charm wiki

#

I think we can safely say that Dumbledore was trusted by the Order of Phoenix, implicitly so, but that doesn't mean he was infallible or that Voldemort was not a powerful and cunning foe

vivid owl
#

And with the Potters it's easier to control what happens to the child as well, the Longbottoms had plenty of other family that'd argue to keep the child and would put up a fight that Dumbles would have to deal with.

But with Harry, well it's just Sirius and Remus and both are prone to emotional outbursts in different ways, Sirius to anger and Remus to sadness and grief. Both could be blinded by their emotions for long enough to whisk Harry away, as did happen.

#

On the Order trusting Dumbles, they kind of had to, he was their leader considering her founded the organisation.

past nacelle
#

True, for however absolutely broken and nutters Voldemort was in mind, body, soul and spirit - he was still powerful, cunning and downright vicious.

reef kindle
#

as for Sirius, Dumbledore was removed from the Wizengamot with Fudge as minister, due to the latter's jealousy, and that degraded Dumbledore's ability to save anyone

foggy gazelle
#

Fuzzpot, you might be onto something and that's a little terrifying

vivid owl
#

Dumbledore wasn't removed until after the Harry's 5th year

past nacelle
#

Dumbedore might not be an evil overlord but he's for damn sure a chessmaster and puppet master, pulling strings.

vivid owl
#

meaning that's 2 years he could have done something for Sirius

#

that's ignoring that Sirius never got a trial originally

#

surely Dumbles should have found that odd considering he sat for every other trial

reef kindle
#

without trial

tired hornet
past nacelle
#

How many excuses and reasons and platitudes did he say over the books when Harry asked for the truth? Only for it to be properly dumped onto him once Sirius was well and truly dead, after a traumatic night of fighting off Death Eaters, injuries and seeing his Godfather die? That's..some next level crap.

tired hornet
#

In fact, I don't think the Wizarding World has a concept of rights. In 2nd Year, Hagrid was sent to Azkaban without a trial as well, for the sake of allowing the MInistry to look like they were doing something about the basilisk attacks.

vivid owl
#

if bleeding Bellatrix and the like got a trial and they were caught in the act of torturing the Longbottoms, why wasn't Sirius given a trial for being caught at the sight of Pettigrew blowing up the street?

past nacelle
#

The Ministry isn't exactly a paragon of virtue, nor is it correct by any means. Looking at that damned ugly golden statue in the Ministry's atrium.

tired hornet
vivid owl
#

Heck if Karkaroff was allowed to call for a second trial from within Azkaban to provide evidence against his fellow deatheaters, then why did no one listen to Sirius's attempts to ask for one?

#

so many questions

modern moth
#

I like the theory that Lavender Brown kept slipping Ron love potion, and the times heโ€™s not infatuated with her are the times she couldnโ€™t give him any. Itโ€™s 0% true, but itโ€™s fun to dream

past nacelle
#

Yeah, Barty Crouch Snr really did cut corners there, sending possibly innocent individuals to prison to suffer under the Dementors rather than actually find the truth. The bloody fool.

reef kindle
#

what I find worrying is this self mutilation tendency of Wormtail, a finger first, then the hand...

vivid owl
#

but yeah Magical Britain has a major problems with rights and the like

modern moth
#

Rats can live without their tails

vivid owl
#

oh wow I just realised something horrid, they wouldn't be signatory to the abolition laws.

#

ooh boy, that's not fun

past nacelle
#

Magical Britain is certainly a cesspit of all things wrong, from certain points of view. But let's be honest, it could also be something in the water because I'm pretty damn sure they also had a large, stupidly large almost, amount of dark wizards and witches throughout history than any other community and country.

reef kindle
#

luckily William Wilberforce did that in 1700s so job done on that front

tired hornet
vivid owl
foggy gazelle
vivid owl
#

Though it was in the 1770s that a judge found that whilst owning was allowed outside Britain, within Britain they had to be free and paid servants. This due to an escaped person running to the police and actually getting help instead of simply returned.

tired hornet
vivid owl
#

The Ministry being so ineffective is apparently meant to be an allegory on the War on Terror and the security policies that did very little to actually provide security but theatre.

past nacelle
# past nacelle Magical Britain is certainly a cesspit of all things wrong, from certain points ...

Much like Gotham, in the Batman comics and other media - there's almost definitely something in the air or the water in Gotham. Possibly cursed land, too. Gods know Gotham had so many things wrong with it, so the comparison is kinda apt for Wizarding Britain. Wouldn't put it past a dark wizard or witch, like Morgana Le Fay for example to curse, befoul or otherwise influence the sphere of magical alignment/influence. It kinda makes sense, in a twisted way.

vivid owl
#

But that's where we start to edge very much towards real world politics so back to the Wizarding World we go

tired hornet
vivid owl
#

true

#

it's never said if the curse lasts even after Moldyshort's real death

#

I mean maybe it could, it was already 53 years old by that point

tired hornet
#

I'm curious, why didn't Dumbledore bring in Bill Weasley, a Cursebreaker, to solve the DADA curse?

modern moth
foggy gazelle
vivid owl
#

if you believe Hogwarts Mystery as full canon then the character of Patricia Rakepick was an independent cursebreaker before teaching at Hogwarts. Meaning she potentially tried as well.

past nacelle
#

It depends how long the person wanted the curse to last, I'd imagine. With how vindictive Voldemort was? He'd want it to last until he took it down. I could imagine whoever cursed/influenced/befouled Wizarding Britain to have the stupid amounts of dark wizard/witches that it has throughout history - must've been extremely bloody powerful, like..Merlin-level.

tired hornet
foggy gazelle
vivid owl
past nacelle
vivid owl
#

Rakepick is meant to be the Defence teacher for 88-89

tired hornet
#

Well, I imagine that Bill Weasley's job is a high-risk job with lots of casualties considering how much variety a curse can bring. Look at the DADA professors. Quirrel died when Voldemort abandoned him, Lockharte gave himself amnesia, Lupin resigned because everyone found out he was a werewolf, Moody was a Death Eater who got kissed by Dementors, Umbridge was taken by angry centaurs into the forest, Snape killed Dumbledore and left, and the Carrow Twins got killed in the Battle of Hogwarts.

vivid owl
#

So perhaps a curse could last indefinitely if done correctly.

tired hornet
reef kindle
past nacelle
#

Hm.

vivid owl
#

Perhaps if Moldyshort's tied it into Hogwarts itself, then it'd be powered by all the ambient magic there, keeping it going even after he's really dead.

tired hornet
past nacelle
#

Personally, Harry could in theory break the curse to it being Voldemort's curse and he's already defeated Voldemort so if he took up the DADA position to break the curse, he could very well succeed.

tired hornet
#

That curse may be why Harry never took the job of DADA.

reef kindle
#

okay, back to the lore of the past ๐Ÿ™‚

vivid owl
#

I could see him breaking the curse.

past nacelle
vivid owl
#

But yes as Lahros said back to the past

foggy gazelle
#

I think he was like a guest teacher at some point?

vivid owl
#

which ugh, past

tired hornet
#

Wendelin the Weird.

#

Or maybe the original Hedwig. He did get the name out of his history books.

vivid owl
#

as my brain is on Defence teachers, does anyone think the Defence teacher may be Galatea Merrythought or do you think the woman in the trailer is someone different?

#

Merrythought did retire in 1945 after all

modern moth
#

Length of curse is probably proportional to the power of the caster

vivid owl
#

and how the curse is made I'd say, but that's a whole different matter

tired hornet
#

Besides, our character is going to be sensing and manipulating ancient magic. Whose to say that we won't be dealing with ancient curses as well?

past nacelle
reef kindle
#

so magical prowess, the intent of the caster and method are all key factors in what the effect is going to be for any spells

past nacelle
#

I've found that in just about any magical fantasy for magic - intent is always an important key factor.

tired hornet
past nacelle
#

A snake pit isn't out of the question though!

reef kindle
#

nothing wrong with snakes

past nacelle
#

Gods know Indiana Jones fell into a few of those in his time.

reef kindle
#

the problems are the acromantulas, that canonically should not be at the Forbidden Forest until Hagrid gets his pet

past nacelle
#

Eh, I'm pretty sure Acromantulas might exist in more places than just the forest.

#

I mean, the place in the trailer where the character was blasting a spider, certainly didn't look foresty.

reef kindle
past nacelle
#

Arachnaphobia?

reef kindle
past nacelle
#

Eh, fair enough. I still get a bit jumpy at seeing the Skyrim one's.

#

I've no problem focusing on killing them but still, not a pleasant sight so I can understand that at least. xD

reef kindle
#

I hated LOTRO for their numerous giant spiders ๐Ÿ˜„

vivid owl
reef kindle
#

especially when I was playing a hobbit

past nacelle
#

I'll agree there. LOTRO's spiders can go burn in a fire, especially when you're a Hobbit and everything looks bigger.

vivid owl
past nacelle
#

Didn't quite have the same problem playing Middle-Earth: Shadow of War and seeing Shelob and her brood though. Possibly because I was aware of Shelob being capable of transforming her size at will. xD

reef kindle
#

you were saying? ๐Ÿ˜„

past nacelle
reef kindle
vivid owl
#

Absolutely no idea. The reason I went looking was I'd read something that the reason that Hedwig was named Hedwig is that Saint Hedwig is the Patron Saint of Orphans and so it'd be like she was looking over Harry.

#

But looking up Saint Hedwig, she's not the Patron Saint of Orphans.

past nacelle
#

That'd have been some pretty on the nose naming...jeez.

#

Corrected it. xD

vivid owl
#

But that doesn't pan out

#

so yeah, confused

past nacelle
#

Didn't it say way back in PS who Harry had named Hedwig after?

vivid owl
#

it came from the history books but it's never said beyond that

#

as far as I'm aware

past nacelle
#

It was a name in one of his school books, so..potentially a similar situation to Cliodnha that we all had a chat about yesterday? Or whenever it was.. Time gets lost, on me at times.

vivid owl
#

So looking it up, there is a "novena" prayer (not sure what that means but okay) to St. Hedwig in which she is described as the patron saint of orphans

#

and well the real Hedwig did pay for the building of multiple orphanages, so perhaps

#

but it's not a main part of who she is and mostly seems to come from the one prayer

past nacelle
#

Also, I'm pretty sure Hedwig might be a name from another country too? Possibly Germanic or something..it'd fit, I think..I might be way off the mark.

#

I mean, I'm not functioning at 100% right now because it's near 6am and I need sleep sooner or later..

vivid owl
#

Well St. Hedwig was sort of German, she was born in Bavaria

#

ye, 5 minutes to 6am

reef kindle
# vivid owl Well St. Hedwig was sort of German, she was born in Bavaria

Hedwig and Henry had lived very pious lives, and Hedwig had great zeal for her faith. She had supported her husband in donating the Augustinian provostry at Nowogrรณd Bobrzaล„ski (Naumburg) and the commandery of the Knights Templar at Oleล›nica Maล‚a (Klein Oels). Hedwig always helped the poor, the widows and the orphans, founded several hospitals for the sick and the lepers and donated all her fortune to the Church. She allowed no one to leave her uncomforted, and one time she spent ten weeks teaching the Our Father to a poor woman. According to legend, she went barefoot even in winter, and when she was urged by the Bishop of Wrocล‚aw to wear shoes, she carried them in her hands.[5] On 15 October 1243, Hedwig died and was buried in Trzebnica Abbey with her husband, while relics of her are preserved at Andechs Abbey and St. Hedwig's Cathedral in Berlin.

past nacelle
#

Yeah, I think I'm gonna pop off and drop to sleep. It's been nice talking lore and theory with ya, folks. Take care, until we next get caught up in this web of lore intrigue again. xD

reef kindle
#

by all accounts a truly pious woman

vivid owl
past nacelle
vivid owl
#

Well at least Harry's owl wasn't named after the patron saint of abuse victims, that might have been even more on the nose if he'd called the bird Germaine or Monica or Rita (the 3 saints for that)

past nacelle
#

Also before I go - ***RISE, RAPTURE, RISE! *We'll go down with our sinking paradise! ๐ŸŽต

#

And I'm gone.~

vivid owl
#

lol

#

The problem with HP I think is it sort of borrows more than builds, like with Cliodhna there, and the like, but it borrows from myth be it Christian or not.

#

Wheras actual history and its impacts are kind of ignored

reef kindle
#

when you want to expand, it becomes obvious where the story lacks

vivid owl
#

The Statute of Secrecy was in 1689 right, so a really valid question did the magicals take sides in the English Civil War?

#

If so then which one?

past nacelle
#

Yeah, GRRM and Tolkien world-building, it was not. If she had that kind of world building, I'm pretty sure the series would've been bigger, longer and far more in details and depths. I swear, I'm going soon. I'm just finishing up eating some chocolate biscuits.

vivid owl
#

the problem is research, and having this at hand

reef kindle
#

world building is a problem, we see that everything has a rather quirky solution for the kids, but what governs this world is a few bumbling fools and happenstance, the Ministry being reactionist, rather then proactive... etc

vivid owl
#

I have like 20 research tabs open to write what I think is going to be like an 80K word fan fic when it's done, it's only around 17K currently

past nacelle
#

The ironic thing is, I've seen HP fanfiction that do tons of world building and do it really damn well and makes it to a point where I'd go 'bloody hell, is this fanfiction or the actual series?' xD

vivid owl
past nacelle
#

Poor Percy, overworked so young and early into his career, hahaha.

reef kindle
vivid owl
#

I swear we need an expansion to Percy to make him a Schindler like character, happily keeping Muggle-borns out of harms way via copious amounts of paperwork

#

He seems like the person to do it

past nacelle
#

Instead of Schindler's List, it'd be Weasley's List. xD

vivid owl
#

lol, but yes

#

I've read fan fiction which followed that line and it was good

past nacelle
#

And yeah, Percy is definitely not most people's preferred Weasley.

vivid owl
#

Percy never talks about it, thinking it was just a simple matter, something he did cos it was right and doable and legal.

past nacelle
#

Same, I've read fanfics where Percy has a far more involved role in the story and it works.

reef kindle
#

WL and survivors move to Albania, because for a poor obscure country it comes up surprisingly often

vivid owl
#

Albania and its magical government seriously needs to be investigated for harbouring dark wizards

#

happens too damned often

past nacelle
#

Also, if you want to really torture and kill your enemies..drown them in paperwork because, damn if that isn't an insidious way to go about it.

reef kindle
#

I have a hunch that our backstory is linked in some way to Albania

#

don't know why or how...

past nacelle
#

Yeah, Albania comes up far, far too often. Like, why? Is there like a dark magic nexus or something in Albania that draws dark wizards and witches like moth to a flame?

vivid owl
#

Sorry to swing it back several steps in the convo but this paragraph in the wiki for the Statute of Secrecy has got me going "That's wrong."

In Great Britain, the newly-created Ministry of Magic attempted to liaise with the Muggle British Monarch (then jointly William III and Mary II) via a special Ministry Delegation, begging them for the protection of wizards under Muggle law.[5] The failure of this attempt at official recognition and protection seems to have been the final straw that forced wizardkind to voluntarily move in the opposite direction toward secrecy. ```
#

The reason why that's wrong is the Statute was signed in 1689 the Ministry was founded in 1707

#

so the timeline doesn't add up there

past nacelle
vivid owl
#

also if the hints of nobility are correct, then the Blacks for instance as a "Noble and Most Ancient House" specifically that "Noble" part, would be able to request a direct audience with the King to entreat with them.

past nacelle
#

1707...The ministry is still fairly young for a government, then...doesn't excuse the stupidity, but still.

reef kindle
#

So, Albania Emperor Zog I and Enver Hoxha the maniacal communist supremo, yeah, Albania might have been hexed if not cursed

vivid owl
#

1707, wasn't that also when the Union of the Crowns act was formally signed creating Great Britain as a nation, as the British monarch became the King of Great Britain rather than the King of England and the King of Scotland as had been before.

#

or am I thinking 1701 under Anne

reef kindle
#

1707 it is

past nacelle
#

Wonder if that has some bearing on the wizarding world making the ministry.

vivid owl
#

at the time the British crown also held the Irish crown, and the Ministry of Magic does also cover Ireland as well

#

heck Magical Ireland is basically just considered a part of magical Britain

#

egads I bet muggle-born Irish aren't happy with that

past nacelle
#

Yeah, possibly.

#

Angry Irish are never pleasant. xD

vivid owl
#

history being like "So things happened and it throws a wrench"

#

This is where HP lore gets really nebulous is around the edges where it interacts with history.

#

Or more importantly how major defining moments in history interact with it

past nacelle
#

Anyway, I've eaten my chocolate biscuits so I'm now off to bed. Take care, try not to your soul sucked out by Dementors while I'm gone. xD

vivid owl
#

Will do, sleep well

reef kindle
#

well, technically speaking to this day the Kingdom of Ireland is part of the United Kingdom

vivid owl
#

Like the War of the Roses, that was a major major thing in the 1400s, pretty much inescapable, how would that have split magical Britain?

#

would they have even taken part?

reef kindle
#

the Free Irish State and consequently the Republic of Ireland is a peculiarity as it does not exist, according to the Collins Constitution, although that has been complicated by the Lisbon Treaty

past nacelle
#

War of the Roses..I'm not familiar with it..it sounds familiar but my tired brain isn't comprehending..I'll think about it when I wake up..

reef kindle
#

Red rose vs White rose

vivid owl
#

the War of the Roses is an English civil war between the House of York and the House of Lancaster two branches both descended from the Plantagenet kings

reef kindle
#

Spoiler alert, York won ๐Ÿ˜›

past nacelle
#

Hah, ah - thanks for the brief history lesson there. I love this channel, we get HP lore, wizarding lore and real world history to talk about, haha.

vivid owl
#

When the Tudors came about, as they were descended from both houses they took up the symbol of the red rose within the white rose

#

But it's a fairly major thing in British history and is a massively complex web of marriages, plots, murder, and warfare between distant cousins who all wanted the throne.

#

that last for like 30 years

reef kindle
#

fun fact, Edmund Tudor's grave in St David's Cathedral, in South-west Wales has yellow roses on it

vivid owl
#

huh

past nacelle
#

Now, no - for real - I'm going before I get sucked into another deeply interesting discussion on something else. xD

vivid owl
#

lol

#

you shall never leave

#

lol

past nacelle
#

Stop being so interesting, you two! xD

reef kindle
#

no chance ๐Ÿ˜„

past nacelle
#

Oh gods, don't go all Hotel California on me!

reef kindle
#

oh? is your mind Tiffany twisted?

past nacelle
#

Remind me to send you a link when I wake up to an interesting horror take cover on Hotel California that I found the other week. Gives me chills listening to it.

vivid owl
#

Oh so Lahros, another tip for the Malfoys being ennobled is that the first Lucius Malfoy apparently tried to court Elizabeth the 1st to marry her.

#

Meaning he'd have to be an Earl at least as there is no way the queen would even think to allow someone less than that to attempt it

reef kindle
past nacelle
#

Oh joy, we almost had Bad Faith as royalty.. xD

vivid owl
#

I was like "What, I thought the Malfoys only had connections to the early kings of Britain through William and his sons"

#

early

#

lol

past nacelle
#

I thought the Malfoys came from France, descended from the french Malfois.

#

Or something like that.

vivid owl
#

as if Edward did consider himself Rex Britannia (or King of the British) in the 900s

#

yep

#

came over with William the Conqueror

reef kindle
#

foy is a Scots word, just so you know

vivid owl
#

and was given land by him for aiding in the conquest

past nacelle
#

Makes you wonder though, what did they do to earn a name that translates to Bad Faith? It sounds like a tale behind it.

#

Possibly a tale of treachery and plots...

reef kindle
#

The meaning of FOY is a farewell feast or gift

past nacelle
#

Wait, have I been going on the assumption the name translates to Bad Faith and it doesn't actually mean that?

reef kindle
#

and with the Auld Alliance between the Scots and the French, you never know

vivid owl
#

perhaps the French Malfois were "Bad Faith" but when the branch that came to Britain were landed, they sought to change their name and looked for a suitable word from Britain that could fit.

#

and so kept the Mal but changed to foy at the end

#

so "bad gift"

past nacelle
#

So, it could mean Bad Gift or Bad Feast.

#

Still, ominous name.

vivid owl
#

I mean not much better but hey ho better than bad faith right

reef kindle
#

Robert The Bruce was actually Robert du Brus, pronounced the same way, except the t in Robert is silent

past nacelle
#

Yeah, i mean Bad Faith pretty much tells you this be a family branded as traitors or something.

vivid owl
#

depending on when the French Malfois came about, perhaps it could have been Charlemagne who named them such

#

may I state it weird that Charlemagne's brother was called Karloman, yet Karl himself is who we call Charlemagne

#

lol

past nacelle
#

And given I think, that the Malfoys are pretty well brushed up on their family history - anyone calling Bad Faith in an argument or such is bound to hit below the belt with them, because it kind of is a cheap shot, reminding people these were once named in Bad Faith before the name change.

vivid owl
reef kindle
vivid owl
#

nah

#

you seen Useful Charts video on that?

#

depends which dynasty you want to follow from

reef kindle
#

Capetian Anjou is the one to go for ๐Ÿ™‚

past nacelle
#

Anyway, I'm getting gone..for real, for the second time. Stop finding interesting topics to drag me back in with!

vivid owl
#

Like I'm still wondering how the War of the Roses would have played out with Wizarding families potentially related to families on both sides of the war

#

Can we get a game in that time period please?

#

Like I think for sure the magicals would have supported Charles the 1st in the English Civil War

#

but earlier civil wars like the War of the Roses or the Barons Wars are much more of an open question

reef kindle
#

a few mythical rulers in Europe: Charlemagne, Friedrich Barbarossa, Roger the Fox, Guillome un Batard (William the Conqueror), Sancho of Aragon

past nacelle
#

The further back we go, the more the future Wizarding World games is gonna end up looking like a magical version of Assassin's Creed. Insert deadpan face.

#

And with that said, I bid you all a good morning and a good night. Finally.

reef kindle
#

War of the Roses that seems to me York on account of Elisabeth of York, her mother or grandmother was said to be a witch

#

on the Baron wars... my money is on the Barons and Magna Charta

#

the English Civil War, I also cannot see the wizards siding with the parliamentarians...

#

but what about the numerous wars in Scotland, the Lord of the Isles' conquest of much of the Highlands, or the Orcadians invasion of Caithness, etc

vivid owl
#

Yeah, it seems many of the old Wizarding families are tied into nobility in some way with their manors and estates, or in the Longbottoms case, a literal keep

#

If they had been ennobled and landed then they'd be expected to build some form of manor house or fortification upon their lands.

#

if they didn't then their muggle peers would be looking at them quite strangely

reef kindle
#

Queen Mary was a witch and had a wand of her own. There was a portrait of her hung at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. and that's Bloody Mary for you

#

๐Ÿคฏ

#

so much for no titles... I do not believe it and that is that ๐Ÿ˜„

vivid owl
#

I was going to use the Potters as an example, although it is unknown if they are titled, their ancestral home is meant to be the village of Stinchcombe in Gloucestershire.

But Gloucestershire was a barony of its own until at least 1342 when I assume it was made into a county and the owner of it given the title of Earl

#

though, it does say that it was made up of "in 1166 comprising 279 knight's fees,[1] or manors."

reef kindle
#

shouldn't Gloucester be one of the March Lords?

vivid owl
#

Whilst that is before the Potters time, if that number stayed similar until the late 1200s, early 1300s when the Potters came about, then maybe one of those manors would be a Potter Manor.

#

and you are right and from my research of noble titles the title of Marquis was created "In Britain, this title was created in 1385."

#

copying and pasting hence the doubling up there

reef kindle
#

sure, I'm still stunned by Queen Mary, to be honest

vivid owl
#

but I mean okay it's a 25 year from when the last Baroness de Clare of Gloucester died, so perhaps her successor was a Marquis

reef kindle
vivid owl
#

and then if so, that'd mean Gloucestershire would be split up to have a couple of barons under the Marquis potentially, so then perhaps Potters could become the Barons of Stinchcombe in the early 1400s

#

holy wow, I know I had originally just put that time frame as a "That'd be cool" sort thing, but that works remarkably well with the real historical information

#

so I'm keeping that for my fan fic

reef kindle
#

*Marquess

#

Marquis is French equivalent to the German Graf or English Earl

#

Marquess is one below a Duke

vivid owl
#

what I've read is Marquess is the female term

#

oh no you're right

#

double checked

#

women is Marchioness

reef kindle
#

one of these days I'm going to Dm you ๐Ÿ˜›

reef kindle
vivid owl
#

oh wow actualy Gloucester became a Dukedom

#

so definitely gives room for the Potters to become minor Barons within the county

reef kindle
vivid owl
#

So after the last de Clare died in 1360, it looks like the Barony/Earldom was empty for 25 years before the whole thing was elevated to the level of Dukedom and given to Thomas of Woodstock in 1385 until 1397

#

after that the House of Lancaster had a go at making it a dukedom in 1414-1447

then Richard the 3rd claimed it in 1461

then it's almost 200 years before the next claimant

#

it seems the title keeps going dormant but I can't find anything solid for any lower titles, any baronies within it, though I'm not exactly digging deep here

reef kindle
#

Duke of Gloucester, Earl of Ulster, Baron Culloden, currently

#

subsidiary titles, they are called

vivid owl
#

Oh I meant within the land borders of Gloucestershire more than extra titles that the holder has

#

as in minor nobles who'd be sworn to the Duke

#

so say a Barony within Gloucestershire that would be the Duke's bannerman technically.

reef kindle
#

that is my point, with the current Dukedom being its Fifth creation, the usual geography does not apply

#

and by the way, since Thomas of Woodstock was from House Plantagenet, the Dukedom is under the English Crown, that of Edward the Confessor

vivid owl
#

fair fair, though I guess my interest would now be that first dukedom

reef kindle
#

that means it is a direct grace of the Monarch

vivid owl
#

ohwell, I guess I can get away with making the Potters barons of Stinchcombe for my story.

It sort of fits the lore of the world, and it fits kind of well in with the history of the time.

So I'm gonna claim it as possible, and add it into my story at least.

#

Gone away from lore for the game though

#

not really sure how to swing it back to that

#

but hey ho, we've basically established for certain that prominent wizarding families were most likely landed, and therefore that could play some level of role in the game (though I doubt it)

reef kindle
#

you can make the Potters or Peverells landed gentry, Lord of the Manor, baronet tennent of the Crown

#

In 1377, at the age of 22, Woodstock was knighted[3] and created Earl of Buckingham.[6] On 22 June 1380 he became Earl of Essex in right of his wife.[7] In 1385, he received the title Duke of Aumale, and at about the same time was created Duke of Gloucester.[8]

vivid owl
#

Hmm, well it says he died in Calais, I'm going to and the timeline means we were at war with the French, so maybe a Potter went to war with Thomas of Woodstock, and he granted him and his sons a title in return for services rendered

#

that does depend heavily on Thomas of Woodstock's potential military career

reef kindle
#

would not have been in Thomas's power that, it would have been the King's to decide upon that

vivid owl
#

Which the section of his wiki titled "Dispute with King Richard II" is kind of telling that that probably wouldn't have happened

#

oof

#

bursting my bubble

reef kindle
vivid owl
#

I can hand waive it a bit I'm sure.

#

lol

#

doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough to pass more than a cursory look yet less than a dig through.

reef kindle
#

Baronetcy is the way forward

vivid owl
#

To sort of keep of follow on a thread from that, we see a few different ruins in the trailer, makes you wonder if we'd be exploring any of the old manors and castles of some now extinct wizarding nobility during the game

errant wagon
#

New channel ๐Ÿ‘€

#

Sorry I haven't been on this server since 2 weeks

vivid owl
#

no worries

#

Ravenclaws and Slytherins currently seem to rule here, with all the lore

reef kindle
#

mainly Slytherins though ๐Ÿ˜›

vivid owl
#

Sorry, I do talk a lot

reef kindle
#

I also read a lot ๐Ÿ˜„

vivid owl
#

To wing it back to the Potters and potential lore but mostly my conjecture for my fan fic, if I was to give them a Baronetcy in the late 1300s under Thomas of Woodstock and King Richard II.

Then I could have it made into a full barony under King Henry V if yet another Potter were to join the English army, potentially help foil the assassination plot against the king in Southampton and then help the King shield his favourite brother Duke Humphrey of Gloucester in 1415 during the Battle of Agincourt after he was injured.

There we go. I can do that and it works history wise.

reef kindle
#

you are dead set on the barony, it seems. It was rarer then you'd think. But it works.

vivid owl
#

It's mostly cos mostly Baronets are addressed as "Sir" or "Dame" and I want Harry to carry the title of "Lord"

#

so, Baron is the rank that is needed

#

right though, I've run off on my little tangent with that for far too long.

#

someone else come and give another topic for lore for the chat, one that actually ties into the game.

reef kindle
#

Wizards are mentioned to be male members of wizardkind, while witches are mentioned to be female members (although the word "wizard" can be used to generalise). This is technically incorrect, as the male version of a witch is called a warlock and the female version of a wizard is called a wizardess. Discuss

vivid owl
#

I tend to prefer the term Wixen when referring to magicals

#

but that is an interesting tidbit that I never knew

#

actually didn't even know "wizardess" was a term

reef kindle
#

works the same way as master/mistress, manager/manageress or steward/stewardess

#

it may sound strange, but it would be the correct term

zenith oyster
#

The term Warlock is also metioned in the harry potter books as a grade or titel, if I remember correctly? ๐Ÿ˜ฌ

reef kindle
#

Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot or somesuch, yes, it rings a bell

#

The Jarvey was a magical beast which resembled an overgrown ferret in appearance. The Jarvey was capable of Human speech, although true conversation with a Jarvey was impossible. The creature used short, usually rude, statements and phrases in an almost constant stream. My kind of creature. ๐Ÿ˜„

vivid owl
#

Lahros, yet another note for the Wizards having Titles as the character is specifically called "Lord Stoddard Withers"

slow horizon
vivid owl
#

We've basically been collecting evidence to state that wizarding families like the Blacks for example should have a head of family who'd be referred to as say Lord Black

#

and using the lore that exists to back it up

slow horizon
#

Hmmm

#

Search no more

vivid owl
#

whether this makes the Blacks barons and therefore just Lords is unknown but as they are meant to be one of the most powerful families then potentially they'd be Earls

slow horizon
#

I'm pretty sure that I remember reading about Dumbledore telling Harry that the pure blood families considered themselves "practically royalty". And, they had coat of arms, something only actual nobles did

#

So it's logical that they behaved like nobles, with head of family and all that

#

Though Blacks might LARP and behave as nobles, they were actually not real nobles as far as our knowledge goes

vivid owl
#

If they are, then say Phineas Nigellus Black is an Earl then his full title as headmaster of Hogwarts would be: the Right Honourable Headmaster Earl Phineas Nigellus Black.

slow horizon
#

Biggest chance of being a noble was for the Malfoys, not the Blacks

vivid owl
#

their family is known as "The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black"

slow horizon
#

since the Malfoys actually got land by the king

vivid owl
#

yes they did

slow horizon
#

though I don't know if they just got land or got titles with it

#

either way, we know for a fact that Sir Nicholas and Sir Cadogan were actual nobles

vivid owl
#

if granted land by a king it is highly unlikely that it would not come with a title, it'd be basically a massive insult to not ennoble them whilst also granting them land like that

#

if they had been granted land to make a manor upon by a lesser noble, then sure, they'd just be "Lords of the Manor" and that's it, basically rich people with a nice house.

slow horizon
#

There are very few known wizard nobles

vivid owl
#

But granted from a king especially for services rendered during the conquest of England, that's pretty much just saying they were made peerage

#

true

slow horizon
#

There's Merlin, Nicholas, Cadogan, Vincent Duc de Trefle-Picques, Draben and I can't even remember more

vivid owl
#

but this is why Lahros and I have been collecting evidence of it throughout the lore, and then tying it into actual British history

slow horizon
#

I always loved the Black coat of arms

#

fusing wand with medieval armor

vivid owl
#

so the thought is that probably most of the really old families have some form of ennoblement but it may just be small, either a baronetcy or a barony, only a few may be earls, such as the Malfoys and Blacks.

#

But really we can't say for sure

#

the problem is Rowling whilst certainly taking inspiration from myth, really sort of just ignored actual history.

#

which is a problem the further back into history of the HP world you go

#

as before the statute of secrecy, the Malfoys were known to be a consistent member of the kings court of Britain

slow horizon
#

one Malfoy tried to marry into the royal family

vivid owl
#

yeah, and failed

#

but to even make the attempt he'd have had to be at least an Earl (count) so that he'd be able to properly try and court the Queen

#

it would have been highly improper otherwise and social suicide

#

something a Malfoy wouldn't do

slow horizon
#

or, maybe Malfoy thought that being a wizard would do fine

vivid owl
#

I doubt it

slow horizon
#

Well think about it

#

He was wealthy, he was a wizard, more than anyone muggle can offer the queen

#

remember that marriage is a political alliance

vivid owl
#

I mean sure Malfoys are stuck up, but the man would have looked at the other Earls and Dukes and the power that they could bring without magic, especially the Dukes who tended to also hold lower titles in other countries as well

slow horizon
#

and whereas Sir Nicholas was referred to as Sir, since he was a knight, Lucius was not called by a title

vivid owl
#

some of them would have been able to call thousands of men to their side, including probably some wizards of their own

#

so without the title, and the therefore subsequent lands and men, what does simply being 1 wizard bring?

#

Malfoys may be arrogant, but they aren't that dumb

#

Though as you say, they aren't referred to by title

#

though mostly this seems to be Rowling not knowing history and the fallout from that lack of knowledge being applied throughout the lore

#

Alas, no one is perfect, but that's why we do research

high creek
#

It's kind of the downside of creating a world that is real world adajcent unless it all bolts together perfectly gaps can appear.

slow horizon
#

I think that Blacks had a head of a family, but not because they were actual nobles, but because they modelled themselves off of nobles due to being purebloods

vivid owl
#

I mean there will always be gaps, but there's a difference between gaps and the gulf that there is for a lot of stuff in HP lore

#

Like in the first Fantastic Beasts film we're told that wixen were banned from fighting in WW1 yet Theseus and a few hundred others went and did it anyway and upon return her was claimed as a war hero.

#

Makes you wonder about any German wizards who did similar

#

but also to go to probably the most major conflict in Europe in the 1800s before the game, the Napoleonic Wars, they were huge. A lot of people don't realise the scale of the conflict but across a 20 year period some 6 million men were mobilised with around a million of them dying and a couple million more being injured.

How did such a huge conflict affect the Wizarding World?

slow horizon
#

No idea

vivid owl
#

You can't say they stayed out of it, especially in places like Spain, where they were fighting for their very nation.

slow horizon
#

but before the Napoleonic Wars, there was one french wizard who avoided the french revolution

#

he was a cavalier

vivid owl
#

well that's at least something

slow horizon
vivid owl
#

It just bothers me that for such massive events the Wizarding World is like "Yeah didn't notice it"

slow horizon
#

wait no

#

that was another wizard who was a royalist, not the french

#

but either way, there's some nobility

vivid owl
#

So we know of a French duke who was a wizard who survived the purge of the nobility

slow horizon
#

yea

vivid owl
#

which a decent amount of normal nobility did as well, though they were all generally lower level

slow horizon
#

though that raises questions

#

why didn't he fight with magic for the crown ?

#

this gets complicated more and more

vivid owl
#

or in the military and happily joining the revolutionaries

slow horizon
#

a noble wouldn't join those rabble

#

traitors basically

vivid owl
#

Napoleon himself was a minor noble and military and revolutionary

#

then became the Emperor

#

so

slow horizon
#

yea but Napoleon was not coming from french nobility

vivid owl
#

Minor French nobility yes, from Corsica maybe but it was still French and he was still minor nobility

slow horizon
#

he was from italian noble family

#

and corsica just got annexed by France

vivid owl
#

But to your point of why they wouldn't fight, that is a good question, cos well it seems the Statute of Secrecy started in Britain (for some reason despite us not being that heavy on the whole witch trials thing), it means that the Wizards who wrote it, the last war alongside Muggles that they'd fought was the English Civil War. Which had been fought with matchlocks but they weren't the greatest things.

In comparison to the flintlocks of the time of the Napoleonic Era, and the improvements in drilling for musketry, I wonder how well a wizard could even hold up against a few soldiers armed with muskets.

#

Let alone the canon that Napoleon himself was so fond of.

slow horizon
#

but they only have to put imperius on the enemy generals and then they won already

vivid owl
#

most combat spells can be dodged to some degree, or at least you have enough time to point cast a shield, but a musket ball, well that moves one hell of a lot faster.

slow horizon
#

I don't think they can dodge fiendfyre

#

they are muggles

vivid owl
#

true but that's meant to be a rare ability with most people not even knowing the incantation let alone the wand movements

#

so say you're an average wizard, you know a variety of jinxes, some hexes and a few curses.

You're up against 10 soldiers armed with muskets who are trying to arrest you for one reason or another.

Someone fires a warning shot and things go hot.

#

Winning is possible with clever use of transfiguration for cover and apparition to move about, but that's tiring, and you're against 10 - 1 odds against trained soldiers

#

it's a lot more difficult than most would think I'd say.

slow horizon
#

a blastic curse nonverbally is all you need

#

blasting *

#

that's how pettigrew did it

vivid owl
#

if you can then yeah, but it can be dodged if they see it coming and at best it takes out 3-4 guys in a single hit as there is no gas main to hit (this being the French revolution after all)

slow horizon
#

dodge ?

#

you don't dodge an explosion

#

only the direct hit

vivid owl
#

the blasting curse has to hit something before it explodes

slow horizon
#

yes, and while htey can dodge the spell hitting them directly, they can't escape the explosion radius

vivid owl
#

a bombarda doesn't seem to have that big a radius, maybe about 4-5ft across tops

slow horizon
#

im talking of the same spell as pettigrew used

#

he killed 12 muggles and created a massive crater

vivid owl
#

he used a normal bombarda but it hit a gas pipe

#

that's what caused the big explosion was the gas main

slow horizon
#

no

#

gas leak was only the excuse wizards came up with to sell the story to the muggles

vivid owl
#

see again that doesn't make sense cos looking that up it says he used the blasting curse which would be "confringo" but we've seen others use it and it doesn't have that power

slow horizon
#

well movies are movies

vivid owl
#

even in the books I mean

slow horizon
#

well they never specified that pettigrew used confringo

#

but a powerful blasting curse

vivid owl
#

but yeah okay I guess it's possible that he used a variant curse

slow horizon
#

though you know

#

soldiers especially in napoleonic wars do not shoot unless given order to

#

imperio the commander, have him start to shoot his own men

#

muggle weaponry is no match for wizards until ww2

vivid owl
#

that's again stating that your average witch or wizard is going to know an unforgiveable

#

which I doubt

#

my point though is that the muggle events do have wide ranging effects and have unintended consequences when people who weren't meant to get hurt do get hurt

#

And sure you may say a musket isn't a match for a wizard, but it's a heavy lead ball moving a little shy the speed of sound. Even if it misses the bang and puff of smoke from the gun might scare the wizard.

#

I may like to study the period of the Napoleonic Wars but I'd hate to have to be a soldier during those times.

slow horizon
#

bombarda nuclei
*wizard atomic bomb

vivid owl
#

fair fair

slow horizon
#

btw, have you ever felt weird that the british wizarding government was a ministry ?

#

We see that Rowling try to paralell wizarding world and real world, thus you see for example wand permits in usa paralelling weapon carry permits, macusa has a president paralelling yank republic , but britain is and was a monarchy, yet they only have a ministry

#

What if wizards lost a war against muggles and ministry kind of below the muggle government ? ๐Ÿค”

vivid owl
#

Well it says that they applied to the King William III and Queen Mary II for protection in the 1680s before the Ministry for Magic was created, failed to come to a satisfactory conclusion and so in 1689 created the Statute of Secrecy which then was signed internationally in 1692 and then the Wizards Council ended and the Ministry of Magic became a thing in 1707.

#

But as far as I'm aware, the monarch is still technically the head of state

#

and the Minister for Magic is meant to report to her just like the Prime Minister does

#

So I don't think so

#

Problems arise in that they were obviously still paying attention to the crown because in 1707 the Union of the Crowns act happened, merging the Scottish and English crowns into one and creating the crown of Great Britain. Which at the time ruled Ireland.

So the Ministry of Magic was created as the British Ministry and encompassed Ireland as well.

slow horizon
#

hmm makes sense

dry coral
#

It seems like charms professors always act as though they were hit with a permanent, overpowered cheering charm when you consider filius flitwick or the one in hogwarts legacy

#

While herbology looks like a young witch in her 20s. Was her name mentioned in the state of play?

#

Well there are some short conversations with him. Trying to think of examples except the part in dh where hermione takes his portrait with her during the horcrux hunt

dry coral
dim pawn
dry coral
dry coral
high creek
desert plaza
#

I hope whoever is the DaDa prof that they are old and grizzled. I want them to be super jaded like moody

#

Like give us an ex aurora that has seen to many things and stares off into space at times in remembrance when they teach about spacific topics

dry coral
dry coral
desert plaza
#

Wasn't it a cadet line of the blacks?

slow horizon
#

Merlin was referenced once

#

and even then, a figure of speech

#

plus we seen his name on a window. but that means nothing, because there are arts for famous wizards

#

we also seen the fat lady, if the commentators would've mentioned the fat lady, people would speculate that we're her descendants ?

slow horizon
reef kindle
past nacelle
#

What lore talk have I missed while I was off in dreamland?

reef kindle
#

Essentially Fuzzpot and I were combing through the Magical History and tried to match it to real history to prove that JK's allegation about noble titles in the wizarding community was not a thing, false.

#

in my mind we found ample circumstantial evidence to corroborate our idea that certain wizarding families carried titles that of the high aristocracy, while others were knighted

past nacelle
#

Hm, interesting.

reef kindle
#

JK has referring to the Blacks as the "Most Noble and Ancient Black Family" that was the base of our inquiry

slow horizon
reef kindle
#

so, we found that while she is forgetful about British wizarding families' titles or downright propagate against it, she is quite happy to show off French and Spanish high aristocracy being laden with magical families

past nacelle
#

It's like it's just random as hell.

slow horizon
#

it is random as hell

reef kindle
#

we have no reason to suspect that was not the case in Britain

#

I would not take JK's words in this sense as gold

slow horizon
#

She's more impulsive than consistent and logical tbf

#

This is this, that is that, even if it makes no sense

past nacelle
#

Yeah, don't take the creator's word when she's impulsive than consistent because things can turned upside down on it's head, pretty damn quick.

reef kindle
#

as Fuzzpot correctly stated, the Malfoy that tried to swoon Queen Elisabeth had to be at least an Earl and member of the court to not be ridiculed and consequently ostracised by society, a mistake a Malfoy would never do

#

so were the Peverells ennobled?

slow horizon
#

unless he used magic to bypass that

reef kindle
slow horizon
#

but it also makes no sense since Malfoys were so connected in muggle aristocracy and royal court , and yet we are told they are pure blood

reef kindle
#

was Slytherin more in his time then just a founder, was Rowena having a diadem meant something for her social status as well?

past nacelle
#

Uh...apparently, the Peverells were connected to the Potters so if it was with a marriage contract, it's possible the Peverells were on the same standing as the Potters but as we know, the line did die out because it was absorbed by the likes of Gaunt, Potter and probably some more.

reef kindle
slow horizon
#

Peverells were also connected to the Slytherins

past nacelle
slow horizon
#

and I also like to belive, that the Slytherins are descendants of Herpo, since Herpo's name in greek literally means slytherin, and he was the first parseltongue and creator of basilisks

past nacelle
#

Quite possible. Wouldn't be beyond scope for a family change countries because of events or something in another.

reef kindle
past nacelle
#

Especially if Herpo was the cause and the rest of his family was like 'Nope, no. We don't know him. Move it people, Britain awaits!'

reef kindle
slow horizon
#

A quite different angle: Whereas the Malfoys had a huge manor and some lands granted by the king of england, the Black ancestral home was a bum. Hardly a thing for an ennobled family, no ?

#

plot hole at its finest

reef kindle
past nacelle
slow horizon
#

Especially since the Blacks originate from France

reef kindle
#

prime example is the Duke of Westminster, he literally owns the City of Westminster, Brough of London, no great country estates, yet he is the richest Duke of the land

slow horizon
#

A noble family of french origin, I would expect something more Versailles and less Grimmauld place

reef kindle
slow horizon
#

This is a family of extreme wealth dont forget

reef kindle
#

btw Tuck is that Sigismund of Luxemburg that you have as Holy Roman Emperor on your profile? ๐Ÿ™‚

slow horizon
#

No, Charlemagne

reef kindle
#

fair enough, it is a small picture

slow horizon
#

If I were that rich, if I considered myself royalty, if I considered myself superior due to being pure blood, I wouldn't live anywhere short of a castle or palace. Especially if I were ennobled by a king

reef kindle
slow horizon
#

They are wizards, they can make anything secure. Unplottable + fidelius charm

#

they could have the cake and eat it too

reef kindle
#

it did not happen like that in real historical families, why should it happen so in with the wizarding ones?

#

clearly the Malfoys did it that way, the Lastranges too, but others didn't

slow horizon
#

yet the Blacks held more prestige than both of them

reef kindle
#

maybe, I believe the Malfoys held the most prestige

#

the Blacks may have been equal to them at some point, but they certainly fell short in comparison

#

think about the money Harry had in Gringott's after Sirius left him the Black fortune and that was still nowhere that amount that Draco inherited

slow horizon
#

well the Malfoys only had money because of that wine

reef kindle
#

inconsequential, the main think is that they had it

#

but I diverge, back to landed titles and titles of the courts

slow horizon
#

I still think that they were not ennobled by muggle royalty

#

but basically modelled themselves off of nobility

reef kindle
#

we would need to examine the circumstances of the norman conquest of England 1066

#

if the Blacks, like the Malfoys came over with William the Conqueror, it is stands to reason they got the same treatment

#

the Doomsday Book explains in great detail for the real History part, how it was facilitated

#

Lord of the Manor is a baronetcy, a landed title where the male is referred to as Master until maturity and Sir from thereon, whereas female is referred to as Mistress until maturity and Lady from thereon

#

that would be the first step and a very common one

#

so, just to reiterate I am merely recounting the real events here, and applying onto the wizarding world as long as the Statute of Secrecy 1707 was not in effect, that changed everything

#

but we have 700 years of history to play with, Conquest of Ireland 1144, Conquest of Wales, the 100 years War, War of the Roses, English Civil War just to name the most obvious ones that a wizard or a family could distinguished themselves in service of a muggle king or queen

#

it was not frowned upon that much before the Statute of Secrecy

past nacelle
#

Yeah, a really specific event must've happened to set off the SoS that caused the wizarding communities and their enclaves to really retreat from the world, especially if that point they were doing quite well comfortably alongside their muggle counterparts.

reef kindle
#

indeed, but that is another problem

#

we know from muggle history that magical beasts were freely roaming the lands and it fell upon wizardkind to rain them in, or rid the world of them

#

so even if we are discounting the obvious wars, I humbly submit that Saint George of the Dragon might well have been a wizard

past nacelle
#

That could be possible. Don't forget, magical enchanted swords aren't impossible. Take Gryffindor's Sword for example.

reef kindle
#

now if you're looking at it from that angle, and the obvious nod in heraldry between the Duchy of Normandy, the Kingdom of England, the House of Plantagenet and Godric Gryffindor... (red and gold, lion)

past nacelle
#

I still believe wizards that used swords might've used them in place of their wand and/or in a duel wielding style.

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Wand in one hand, sword in the other.

reef kindle
past nacelle
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Gryffindor would've had to have been the best at that, to have killed every contestant that came his way because of course, duels and fights back then would've been to the death.

reef kindle
past nacelle
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True, and since Gryffindor was known to be honourable, he would've accepted someone yielding instead of to the death.

reef kindle
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so, are we in agreement that the wizarding society carries high and low aristocracy in equal quantities to the medieval muggle society?

past nacelle
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Not gonna lie, I also imagine if a wizard was talented enough with a sword he could imbue it with an element for further devestating attacks, kinda like Thoros of Myr from the A Song of Ice & Fire/Game of Thrones. Just imagine, wielding a sword that you can imbue with your preferred element, whether it's fire, frost or such. Would make people wary of trying to go blade to blade with you, in some degree.

reef kindle
past nacelle
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I imagine the Weasley's used to be part of the aristocracy at some point before they lost it. They wouldn't be titled a pureblood family or have a known house rivalry with the Malfoys otherwise.

#

House rivalry/blood feud, however you want to word it.

reef kindle
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having been participating since the channel was opened, I must say I really feel like I found a place to let my inner nerd out until I can roam Hogwarts Castle myself ๐Ÿ’š

past nacelle
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Same. I've been in here far more than any of the other channels recently, hah.

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But to be fair, we do have plenty of interesting topics and conversations in here that tends to go off in tangents or run away from us. xD

reef kindle
past nacelle
high creek
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As far as I'm concerned as long as you can claim you are discussing the lore of how the world is in the 1890's and how it came to be that and the history of some of the families that may be in the game I won't complain.

tropic jewel
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oooooh

dim pawn
tropic jewel
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interesting

#

many thanks

high creek
slow horizon
slow horizon
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Plus don't forget, that most of Europe was religious so they wouldn't have tolerated wizards anyway

tired hornet
high creek
past nacelle
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I just had a thought come to me while I was making some food in the kitchen. Are there any notable half-breed/creature blooded people in HL's time period? Like, half-giants like Hagrid or Veela like Fleur? I'm pretty sure the wizarding community might be largely dominated by wizarding kind but half-breeds are likely to occur so...thoughts, anyone?

clear siren
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Just a new lore came out

vivid owl
# slow horizon Plus don't forget, that most of Europe was religious so they wouldn't have toler...

I Disagree somewhat. A wizard could claim that their powers are gifts from god and the spells they perform as "miracles".

It honestly wouldn't be too difficult for them to do, especially if they are backed by already existing institutions of power such as being ennobled themselves or having a noble family.

Also so we discussed yesterday about Saint Hedwig who is a secondary saint of orphans in the area around Silesia where she funded several orphanages.

Well Harry gets the name for his owl out of a magical history book, meaning that in the HP world, Saint Hedwig may have been magical and that some of the "miracles" she performed could have been magic.

And as the daughter of a duke of Bavaria and wife of the duke of Silesia, she was extremely wealthy and politically powerful.

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Obviously the more general populace would have been somewhat less open. But the nobility would most likely allow it or even offer patronage if magic benefitted them.

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Considering some of the stuff real life nobility pulled, they can't really talk much about having discarded "witchcraft" when many were known to consult with local soothsayers and the like and were all for good omens, and other "magical" beliefs.

slow horizon
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At least until Henry VIII

#

since we are talking about England

vivid owl
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Only that there are literally hundreds of Saints and thousands of beatified people who performed "miracles" like healing the sick with a touch, or turning water to wine and so on and so on.

#

And none of them were "put down"

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they lived their lives then were canonised as saints after their deaths

slow horizon
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yes, through the power of God, which the Church deemed to be real miracles. Not with magic wands

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anyway, the two worlds are getting too mixed up in this convo, I'll stop

modern moth
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Merlin

vivid owl
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if they could claim it as how they performed their miracles, I don't see why it wouldn't have worked.

slow horizon
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Though idk, I guess this is a subject in which we cannot bridge the gap between real world and hp world.

In HP world, William the Conqueror was happy to tolerate Malfoys and receive magical service
IRL he was a devoted Catholic

vivid owl
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The problem with Merlin is that the King Arthur myth comes from around 500 CE

slow horizon
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that too ye

#

Rowling

vivid owl
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Cos the idea is that he was a defender against the invading Angles and Saxons

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and Jutes

slow horizon
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HP timeline he was closer to William the Conqueror than to the angles and saxons

reef kindle
# slow horizon Except that wouldn't work, as the Church would've put them down. Or to be more p...

Ever heard of Coloman the Learned, also the Book-Lover or the Bookish? He was King of Croatia and Hungary in and around 1100 AD, he rebuffed a Papal Nuncio and the Pope himself by putting into law in the lands where he was king, that strigas (latin word for witches) do not exist, therefore it is pointless to pursue them. So, no, the Pope do not make Kings getting rid of miracle workers... Christian hysteria was quite high as the Crusades were on those years.

slow horizon
reef kindle
slow horizon
reef kindle
past nacelle
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What the heck have I wandered into this time?

slow horizon
# reef kindle that is simply not true

Yes it is. Even Saint Augustine taught that "The Church has no reason to seek out or persecute any witches because their powers do not exist"

The Catholic stance was always more nuanced than that mate... Dabbling in occultism or palm reading and other stuff, "witchcraft", were condemned because it is superstitious and against the first commandment, but the Church never belived that there are "witches" who have inherent supernatural powers... That is a myth, just like the myth that the inquisition has killed thousands of people.... The witch hunts were done by protestants, mostly lutherans in Europe and puritans in USA

Anyway, let's not discuss it further here.

reef kindle
# slow horizon Yes it is. Even Saint Augustine taught that "The Church has no reason to seek ou...

Witchcraft had long been forbidden by the Church, whose viewpoint on the subject was explained in the Canon Episcopi written in about AD 900.

The Malleus Maleficarum, usually translated as the Hammer of Witches, is the best known treatise on witchcraft. It was written by the Catholic clergyman Heinrich Kramer (under his Latinized name Henricus Institor) and first published in the German city of Speyer in 1486.

But sure, let's discuss something else.

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it irks my sense of justice to claim that the inquisition did not kill anyone... 40000 people were executed by them during and after the Cathar wars

slow horizon
# reef kindle Witchcraft had long been forbidden by the Church, whose viewpoint on the subject...

Yes it is forbidden because it is superstitious, and you cannot have supernatural powers.... And it breaks the first commandment. Lying and murder is also forbidden.

And the Malleus Maleficarum is not Catholic Church teaching. Just as Luther's 95 theses were not, and he wrote the thesis when he was a clergyman aswell. You forgot to mention that the Malleus Maleficarum was banned by the Catholic Church, as well as the author's other works along with it. The author even got removed from his position by his bishop.

slow horizon
reef kindle
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oh I see, so it is fine to crusade over a difference of opinion and butcher cities, lay waste to the countryside and then burn the survivors, Deus Vult? Those people were accused of and sentenced to death for the "crime" of heresy and witchcraft. Either you don't remember correctly or you've had a seriously lacking education on the subject, I'm sorry to say

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regardless, it has little connection to Hogwarts Legacy, so I move on

slow horizon
vivid owl
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Was gonna say, you've gone too far guys

slow horizon
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yeah, a bit got carried away

past nacelle
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Interesting back and forth, but not the right track of conversation. Let's get back to HL and Wizarding World lore.

hushed nest
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anyway, as i was saying; bobby the elf was a house elf in the hogwarts kitchens 15 years after the battle yavin, making grilled cheeses for the rebel alliance during the anaxes occupation following the imperial massacre on antar iv.

past nacelle
reef kindle
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"A hag was a savage being that looked like an ugly, old witch but had more warts. They had four toes on each foot, had a taste for the flesh of human children, and possessed rudimentary magic, similar to that of a troll." - will we see hags in HL?

past nacelle
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Excuse me, when did Witcher hags make the leap to Wizarding World? Because that low-key sounded like the Witcher's version.

reef kindle
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to start you on them ๐Ÿ˜›

vivid owl
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and then there's this one who permanently made herself beautiful via a potion

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which wow that's one hell of a potion and must be super difficult to make

slow horizon
reef kindle
vivid owl
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Though it seems that most beautification potions are temporary, like polyjuice

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heck the brewing of them may be similar

vivid owl
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though interestingly if they were such a danger to children then there is no way that they'd be allowed in Diagon come August when children would be getting their stuff for school

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but Harry sees multiple most years that he does his shopping

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he even sees a couple when out on Hogsmede weekends

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so I guess there are mostly safe, they probably just like eating raw meet

reef kindle
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maybe being magical somehow sours their taste?

past nacelle
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Possibly. Magic might be radiation, remember? xD

reef kindle
past nacelle
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HOUSE_RAVENCLAW Ftw.

reef kindle
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Salvio Hexia is a damned decent sounding incantation for a hex repellent charm

past nacelle
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Although, it also sounds like you're firing a salvo of hexes. xD Like, that's what I think hearing 'salvio'.

reef kindle
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yeah, it has that effect on the ears ๐Ÿ˜„

past nacelle
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I wonder, how is it Severus Snape's self-made spells even in the game? I'm pretty sure someone mentioned Levicorpus and as I recall, Snape created that.. Unless they're going with the well, actually - he recreated them or something.

reef kindle
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"Merrythought returned to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry to teach sometime around 1895, though what subject is unclear. (...) The Headmaster during her early years was presumably Professor Phineas Nigellus Black, although she also went on to work under Professor Armando Dippet." So, I think she might not be our teacher, but Phineas's tenure as Headmaster is looking good at the moment ๐Ÿ™‚

reef kindle
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so most of the things that Snape did were improving the effectiveness of things

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for example crushing an ingredient, not chopping up for a potion

past nacelle
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Sectumsempra's pretty damn lethal, for a created spell by a teenager..jeez..

reef kindle
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whilst clever, not ground breaking

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damn brooding emo teens, am I right? ๐Ÿ˜„

past nacelle
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Also, I'd imagine it'd also leave a scar too, regardless of if the counter to it is applied.

vivid owl
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did Snape make Levicorpus?

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thought that was used on him by James?

reef kindle
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he improved of one of the corpusis... can't remember the base of it

past nacelle
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Yeah, I'm thinking they somehow got their mitts on his spell. Wouldn't put it past the bullying gits.

vivid owl
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They stopped after their 5th year, though still not great

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at least they did become better people

reef kindle
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again, if you are a bully, better do your homework and whilst your mates beat up the poor sod, you go through his parchments, in case you see something good ๐Ÿ˜„ (obviously a joke, don't be a bully!)

reef kindle
past nacelle
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Ah...I might be wrong. Here's three spells Snape created - Liberacorpus. Sectumsempra. Muffliato. Although, I could've swore blind in the HBP book Harry cast Levicorpus on Ron while he was asleep and not Liberacorpus...My mind must be going...

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No wait, I'm right. He did make it.

vivid owl
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Levicorpus picks a person up by their ankle and dangles them around

past nacelle
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Liberacorpus is the counter to Levicorpus.

reef kindle
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I think we can see maybe a less effective version of these in the game

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like, I dunno, not dangling the person, just hanging there in mid air

past nacelle
vivid owl
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it is unknown if the spell to move a persons body "Mobilus Corpus" can work on a conscious person.

reef kindle
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there is the lore of the incantations, there are several connections there made by the ones comprised the list, sometimes the assumptions are correct, sometimes they are a leap, but it is interesting, nonetheless

earnest linden
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it makes too much sense canonically as he was headmaster to dumbledore and directly between the two is dippet.

smoky fossil
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Theres an entrance exams to play Hogwarts Legacy

violet tangle
terse rose
neon kindle
modest yoke
reef kindle
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maybe not a vampire, but an animagus

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I want that, really really want that ๐Ÿ˜„

desert plaza
craggy moon
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never heard of the wozarding world either i wonder what that is

desert plaza
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It would create an eternally underage situation and I doubt wb wants to handle that drama