lore

[worthy trench]

and ghosts can also be cured of petrification despite being incorporeal beings, yet the cure is a corporeal substance

So how they cure them, who knows

[dapper lark]

If only we could use some ghost severing curse so Nick could join the headless hunt. 🙃

[worthy trench]

It seems he can't just rip it off himself even though he can interact with his own head despite being incorporeal

[sinful stratus]

remind me, how is the elder wand the best when it's core is a thestral and threstrals are only rank xxxx, where as dragons are ranked xxxxx

[warm ivy]

Well it's not the best wand

If you ask me it is the worst wand to have

[sinful stratus]

i though everyone said it was the strongest wand?

[warm ivy]

Supposedly

[worthy trench]

that rank is about danger to people. Thestrals are not considered as dangerous as dragons.

The EW is either the creation of a entity beyond comprehension to mortals or made by a very skilled wizard using knowledge and skill of wandmaking not known to modern wandmakers

Its more powerful than other known wand and acts in a way no other wand is known to do.

Its already proven its power by repairing a fully broken wand, something believed impossible by modern wizards and wandmakers

so its clear wandmakers haven't been able to replicate its feats since

[warm ivy]

So

You could say that since it was made by death it would be able to from a wand back to life

In terms of power we haven't seen it's true power according to lore death made tge wand and give it to one of the brothers

Now this is the paradox death is the owner of the wand and it uses it to cause death

There are many loop holes to get ownership non of them say that you can change ownership by giving it away

[worthy trench]

Well we've seen one thing it can do, repair wands, no other wand has been known to do that. so we've seen something of its power compared to other wands.

[warm ivy]

True again it like bringing a wand from the death

[worthy trench]

I mean if was made by Death, then its likely no one will be able to replicate it

[warm ivy]

Or own it

[worthy trench]

If its not, then eventually someone will replicate it

Odds are its not made by Death

Also being the maker of a wand doesn't make you its master by default.

[warm ivy]

Yes but then that wouldn't explain all the crazy reasons forbits power and loyalty

[worthy trench]

Why?

[warm ivy]

How does one get ownership of the wand?

[worthy trench]

Its likely just a more skillfully made wand.

Probably a combo of the wood, core and craftmenship

[warm ivy]

Could be

[worthy trench]

If the rules that apply to wandmakers apply to Death then Death would not be its master by default of making it.

No other wandmaker is so

why would Death be

Wand choses wizard

[warped thistle]

By either killing or defeating/disarming the previous owner.

[warm ivy]

You are talking about rules when the wand has it's own rule

[worthy trench]

though if Peverall made it, then he wouldn't become its master by default of making it either

so would the one who killed him be its first master

[warped thistle]

Yes that is the wands own rule

[warm ivy]

Correct yet the wand changes loyalty even tho the first holder was killed in his sleep

So according to the EW rules you can't get ownership of it

[warped thistle]

When you say "yet" you are saying it as if it contradicts the rule of onwerhip that I stated before. It doesn't

He killed the previous owner. He was the new owner

[warm ivy]

Now some say that the wand will choose the most powerful one

[warped thistle]

Now some are wrong

[warm ivy]

Doesn't go with it's rule

[worthy trench]

The main things that set EW apart from all other wands are its power, its ability to recall every spell cast against it (JKs own words) and its dispassionate nature (it only respects power/strength according to its own definition) and will drop its master on a dime if said master is disarmed of their own wand in a melee.

[warm ivy]

This

[warped thistle]

Name the contradiction.
The rule says the wand changes allegion to a new owner when this new owner is a person who kills the old owner or disarms/defeats them.
The second owner of the wand killed the first owner thus fulfilling the rule not contradicting it.

[warm ivy]

But my theory is what if the wand chooses death from the beginning since no wizard has more power than it

[warm ivy]

Now you added the kill part

[warped thistle]

No I didn't. I named the kill part in my first reply to you. We can check

[warm ivy]

That also doesn't explain stealing

[warped thistle]

This was my first reply. Killing was mentioned

[worthy trench]

Doesn't work cos it that was the case HP would have died in the final duel to LV

HP only won it cos he was the master of the wand

If he wasn't, he faces LV head on, and loses. LVs raw power in magic is on another level to him.

HP is not in the top leagues when it comes to most powerful wizards

[warped thistle]

True. I see, good point. I think the rule must also include "... or if the new owner stole it from the old one"

To explain how it gone from being gregorowichs master to Grindelwalds master

[warm ivy]

See

[warped thistle]

On the other hand stealing the wand does count as disarming I think. So it may be redundant

[warm ivy]

Maybe

Harry supposedly got ownership by taking it from draco's hand by force

I think death is the true master and uses it to cause death to those that want to abuse its power

Remember death was angry that he got cheated by the brothers

[worthy trench]

He had to be its master, otherwise he dies in the final duel

He's not on LVs level, he can't defeat LV in a straight duel without shenanigans

[warm ivy]

If so then how did lord voldemort was able to hurt one of the souls inside harry

[worthy trench]

you mean the horcrux?

it took the hit for him

AD made it clear LV had to be one to kill HP for that to happen

Anyone else would have just killed him

based on that info

[sinful stratus]

another wand core question, does the breed of dragon affect the wands performance?

[warm ivy]

I think since it wasn't it's original bodybit was used as a shield lol

[warm ivy]

I don't think so

[worthy trench]

And according to JK, HP himself had to let LV do it. That implies HP would have died if he hadn't.

[warm ivy]

Dragons are the most powerful creatures of magic

[sinful stratus]

the wand i got in the quiz is dragon heartstring

[solid folio]

That scene has so many different interpretations in fanon

Even though it explains how he survived clearly in the book

[warm ivy]

There are three usable cores

[sinful stratus]

there are others, just olivander prefers to stick with the three he considers best

[warm ivy]

We should be able to add more

[worthy trench]

I mean she literally said it came to down to his choice.

[solid folio]

Yeah there's some weird theories like him being the master of death

Which i suppose in a way he is but it's not the reason he lives

[worthy trench]

http://web.archive.org/web/20110623034201/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=122

http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2007/1217-pottercast-anelli.html

[solid folio]

Isn't there also something about the love magic that protected Harry being in Voldemorts blood

It ended up being quite fateful that Voldemort used Harry's blood

[worthy trench]

JK is contradictory on these things it seems. Like she says the blood acted like horcrux anchoring HP to life via LV, but that he could have died if he chose to. And he apparenly only got to chose because he chose to let LV kill him.

[solid folio]

And in the book I'm pretty sure this is what it says

[worthy trench]

Like the EW wouldn't work properly on HP due HPs mastery but the AK is so powerful it did hurt him severely and he could have succumbed to death in Limnbo

Like this is from JK herself

[solid folio]

And ofc the weird fan theories that don't make any sense

[worthy trench]

Like its all in the links i posted

And JKs own words on this by her own admission just fuel more discussion

[solid folio]

It's just very strange for her to have written something in the book then go back on it in interviews

[worthy trench]

So its seems she wanted the debate and perhaps didn;t know the exact answers herself

She either knows the exact answer as to why HP survived or was given the choice to go back, or she deliberately didn't think of one.

So everyone will in the dark including her

[solid folio]

It makes sense for it to be his willpower if its like some sort of Alice in Borderland situation

[worthy trench]

We do know she knows the exact Horcrux making process

and won't tell

Well according to JK it was just cos he chose to die

which implies if he didn't he wouldn't have gotten the choice

[solid folio]

I mean in King's Cross he has a choice to come back or stay

[worthy trench]

yah and i just said why

he had it

[solid folio]

Ah right

[worthy trench]

according to JK based on the interview

the way she words it implies if he chose to fight, then he'd outright die

no choice to go back

[solid folio]

Tbf master of death theory starts making more sense when you put it that way

[worthy trench]

thats how i interpert it anyway

[solid folio]

Even if it was discarded by JK

[worthy trench]

Like if he fought, then he's not mastering death

cos the true master per ADs interpretation accepts death

[solid folio]

It's because he's accepting death willingly like the third brother

[worthy trench]

thats how interpret it

and her own words in the interview

Like she's never gonna give an exact answer

[solid folio]

And he only goes back because dumbledore says "oh you can return if you want"

Supposedly he is related to the third brother as well

And curiously Voldemort related to the second

But then all pure blood families are related in some way

[worthy trench]

he is related to him

and LV

very distantly

[solid folio]

Yeah

[worthy trench]

through the Peveralls

the bloodline are linked somewhere

[solid folio]

It's just curious that they have the link of possessing two hallows

All other events aside

[worthy trench]

cos the Peveralls are related to the Gaunts and the Potters

[solid folio]

Voldemort had the stone in the Gaunt ring yes

[worthy trench]

yah

ofc he had no idea

Like the Gaunts and Potters didn't know what they had

[solid folio]

It's probably the "foolish" thing dumbledore tried doing with the ring

To extract the stone

[worthy trench]

he put it on

[solid folio]

Oh that's just dumb

[worthy trench]

that unleashed the curse lv put on it

yah AD admits it was dumb after

[solid folio]

But uncharacteristically dumb

[worthy trench]

he admits that

he fcked up

eveyone has dumbass moments

that was his

[solid folio]

I think it could've been cooler if he got cursed when he removed the stone but it is what it is

The stone is arguably the most useless hallow anyway I don't think Voldemort would've been too interested

He has no empathy either so I'm guessing nobody he would want to see returned from the dead

[dapper lark]

“I can see dead people?! Can I make them into inferi though?” Maybe if he could learn spells from Salazar’s specter. Or other dark wizards.

[solid folio]

Possibly

[worthy trench]

The stone is useful for closure actually.

And gaining knowledge of long dead people

Wanna learn stuff from Merlin? Summon him

Or anyone else

Watch as the next HL sequel take place in the 2020s and we summon the shade of HL protag with the stone after we find it in the FF.

[dapper lark]

Lol. That would be hilarious.

[worthy trench]

hmm but not likely. well fanfiction exists.

[mossy coyote]

did someone say fanfiction?!

[solid folio]

Wouldn't they be emotionless though? Say if you had to apologise

[worthy trench]

Why would they be? HPs parents, Sirius and Remus didn't come off that way when summoned back

[solid folio]

This is some speculation as well based on the book

So it doesn't seem like you could just yeet Merlin back from the dead for example

[solid folio]

I still don't think they are returned as their true selves. If its based on memories of them Harry wouldn't even have much memories of his parents and thus it would just be how he imagines they were

I think the intended use is to come to terms with your own death as Harry does anyway

[worthy trench]

HP wiki puts alot of fan speculation in it based on book lore and other stuff.

Its up to urself what you think rn

But given they weren't unhappy when showing up to see HP, i dont think the stone is memory based or that means eveyone summoned would be unhappy.

also that story is a story based on events the author wasn't around for

so there's dubious accuracy there

[solid folio]

Yeah I think it's implied the fable shouldn't be literally interpreted I guess

[worthy trench]

Right now, I don't see anything that says you can't summon the dead back to the world with the stone

and we know the afterlife exists

[solid folio]

Like you can't literally use the invisibility cloak to hide from death for example

[worthy trench]

and the soul goes somewhere after death

yah i doubt the cloak would actually hide you from Death if the being was real

[solid folio]

And death isn't a real thing either I think anyway as in a being that decides which people to take next

[worthy trench]

Even if he's real, that doesn't mean he operates like the story says

[solid folio]

Exactly

But the Peverell brothers are obviously real

[worthy trench]

Aye

[solid folio]

It's most likely a cautionary tale based on their attempts to create unnatural wizarding artifacts

[worthy trench]

If i was to have Death in a fanfic verse, I'd probably portray it like terry prachett's

[worthy trench]

Yah

prob

The bros were likely just really skilled and powerful

We know there's old death related magic lost to modern wizards

like the Viel aswell

like how on earth that thing get made

like someone broke open a portal to the afterlife

and its permanent

Like i'd love to know how they pulled that off

[solid folio]

I guess it's a proof of concept as well. If there's a portal to the afterlife theoretically there's a way back but obviously it would be too dangerous to have something like that lying around

[warped thistle]

How do we know this

[solid folio]

Ghosts and portraits as well as the infieri

[warped thistle]

I think afterlife like in a separate realm where the consciousness/soul can have new experiences (as opposed to the soul being tied to this realm and can have new experiences in the same realm as the living)

[solid folio]

The veil is a thing too

[warped thistle]

The veil as I understood it represents the wall between life and death and acts as a semi permeable one way membrane.
How do we know those who went beyond the veil are having new experiences in an afterlife realm

[mossy coyote]

hey fam question

if a dementor does the succy (not a dementor's kiss), its feeding off happy memories. Are you then unable to recall those?

is it like stealing

[scenic plaza]

I don't remember reading anything like memory loss in Prisoner of Azkaban

But I think the dementors will really ruin your day, you won't go mad unless you're tortured by them constantly in Azkaban

And in Sirius Black's case, they have limited effect on you once you're drained of your positive emotions; there's nothing left for them to feed on. That's how Sirius survived, he didn't have any positive emotions like "Yeah, I'm real glad I mostly got away with that murder", Black became invisible to them since the only thing on his mind was the horrible thought that he was really innocent and is now in the worst place a wizard could be in

[worthy trench]

Dementors can't take away your happy memories, only your soul if Kissed and your sanity and hope if you are stuck around em too long if you can't preserve and keep it.

[solid folio]

From what I understand its a two way relationship

The dementors are basically just an abstraction of your emotions and they only exist because of it.

So if you have no positive emotions then you would not be able to perceive them either

In other words I think the dementors were also invisible to Black at one point

[solid folio]

Actually it seems like because Sirius Black stayed in his dog form the dementors assumed he had already lost his humanity

[worthy trench]

Dementers seem to be a physical manifestion of despression and despair. And thats how the breed.

You will percieve them if you are wizard/witch or have another magical species.

if ur squib or muggle you won't

but you will feel their effects and can be harmed the same way

[hollow marlin]

squibs can see

[solid folio]

Yeah it also seems like rather than consuming happy memories they take it to another extreme and just remove all hope

[hollow marlin]

otherwise Mrs figg testimony in order of the pheonix wouldnt of worked in wizarding law

[solid folio]

There also seems to be a theory that the dementors kiss could act like a horcrux in that once you die your soul is permanently inside the dementor so you can never move on

Which is the fate worse than death

Well of course either way your soul is removed

When you put it that way it seems kinda crazy to intentionally make a horcrux if your fate afterwards is not to dissimilar to someone who received the dementors kiss

[worthy trench]

we'll never know prob what happens to the soul after a kiss

but its gone from the body

[solid folio]

Yup that part is not disputed

But yeah to rip your soul apart intentionally seems kinda crazy when the consequences for having no soul is well known and feared

[warped thistle]

After both the books and the movie I'm still not 100% sure whether Mrs Figg could actually see demenotrs, or just said she could to support Harry's case in court

[mossy coyote]

i wanna believe that she could

[serene spear]

In the movie she explained how they look (I believe in the Ministry of Magic at the prosecution)

[warped thistle]

Yea but somehow I'm not sure whether she was able to describe them because she could see them or whether she heard a wizard/witch describe it sometime.

[warm ivy]

So if harry had a piece of voldemort's soul rgen why did the dementor only pull out one soul before it was stopped

[blissful ginkgo]

Can a dementor put the soul back?

[solid folio]

It didn't complete the dementors kiss?

[worthy trench]

Yah and it probably would have sucked out HPs soul along with the Horcrux piece of LVs soul

I doubt it would discriminate

or could

[solid folio]

Yeah theoretically you could get a dementor to suck out the horcrux but that's like asking a lion to bite off an unwanted mole from your face

Basically a terrible idea

I'm pretty sure in the train scene Lupin was actually quite prompt to prevent the dementor attack and in future attacks Harry was competent enough to take them on alone

[worthy trench]

I don't think it would work. I assume the Horcrux is latched on to the host soul. Thus its going with the host soul if its sucked out, not taking the blow for the host like it did with the AK in the forest (which it may not have actually done).

[solid folio]

Yeah in the forest I think it was just the power of love

(literally)

I don't really care if JK has another explanation I think the one Dumbledore gives makes the most sense

[worthy trench]

She's said it just came down to their choices.

That suggests if HP resisted death in the forest, he'd have died for good and wouldn't have gotten the choice to return.

Which is what AD thinks.

She said while HP was EWs master, since AK is so powerful, he could have or would have succumbed to death anyway, just not instantly like AK normally does.

[solid folio]

Wouldn't Lily Potter also have received a choice?

There has to be more nuance

I mean yes her husband was murdered so you can see that as a reason not to return but she also sacrificed herself for her child so it wouldn't make sense for her not to return to protect Harry unless she really trusted Voldemort not to harm him

Maybe part of the blood magic is that she has to remain dead to keep him protected idk.

[warm ivy]

Well we do see his soul coming out of his mouth

[warped thistle]

Yea one would think souls would be transparent lookalikes, but they're just shiny hovering balls

[warm ivy]

Every soul

[worthy trench]

Lily wasn't tethered to life like HP was thanks to LV sharing his blood. So no choice for Lily. HP got that choice due his own choice to die and the shared blood.

As AD said, they were in unknown waters when it came to magic.

Several things occurred for HP that likely won't happen ever again and probably have never occurred before that

[modern moth]

So here's a interesting reference for Beauxbatons

" It's a chateau composed of four floors surrounded by luxurious gardens and mountains."

[white prism]

I wonder if the muggleborns that get rejected from Durmstrang go to Beauxbatons

[modern moth]

As long as you can speak French, I don't think that would be a problem.

[solid folio]

Durmstrang is Bulgaria though

[solid folio]

It basically just seems like a plot convenience thing. A pity

It doesn't make sense that Harry's case is the only time someone has self sacrificed to protect them from AK

[worthy trench]

It wouldn’t be most likely or it wouldn’t be known about. Also there’s other things that occurred like hp becoming a horcrux as a result of the attack and lv using his blood to revive himself later.

These are not likely to have occurred the same way before then

[solid folio]

Harry's case is the only known case of survival which is why he's the boy who lived

I can see Harry being made an accidental horcrux being the first and possibly last time though as only two wizards have even made a single horcrux and yet LV was crazy enough to make multiple

[worthy trench]

Only two known wizards but ive no doubt others made them too as the existence of the rebirth potion would indicate to me that other wizards have made them and lost their bodies prior to horcrux destruction which would mean they'd need new bodies. I feel like the rebirth potion is not as old as the horcrux but thats only my feeling.

[magic isle]

hey guys what are the lore implications of harry potter being lactose intolerant?

[dull mason]

i think he eats cream from the bun in hogwarts but it may have just been for show?

[magic isle]

no i'm pretty sure jk confirmed that to be soya

[sour coral]

milk bucketus

[magic isle]

can i get a source for that spell?

never heard of it

[dull mason]

didn't the dursleys use to tip it on the stairs so that it dripped in him?

[magic isle]

you might be right on that one. pretty sure it was cut from the final book though like the cheese monger's revenge was

[dull mason]

#🤣memes ? we're kinda discussing the milk problem.

[sour coral]

gods, its you

[sour coral]

make this again but with "how harry potter eats his griffindor lunch" pahahaha

[magic isle]

here you go lol!

[sour coral]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[magic isle]

paahaha i thought you'd like it !!

[sour coral]

omgg i cant stop

HAHAHAHAHAHA

🤣

[lunar bear]

has anyone realized that the current time that hogwarts legacy and all the goblin related things actually make sense within the harry potter books? in book 4 (spoilers ahead probably) it is mentionned that in the 18th century there were goblin rebellions????

[modern moth]

No surprise here since devs have one principle for making this game, authentic to the lore.

[solid folio]

Wtf lol

JK has some retcons but this takes the cake for the weirdest

[flint condor]

Why was Wormtail in Gryffindor?

And even James Potter?

[blissful ginkgo]

For example, a person fits to 50% into two different houses. How should it be decided? Possible Solutions: RNG, future archivements (really difficult to get a accurate future sight) or wishes of the person. HP himself wished not to be in slytherin as the hat decided the house. We don’t know how much influence this had. But with HP there could be precedence for others.

[magic isle]

could hemrmiane hypothetically use the time turner to go back and murder the crold man who lived at the end of the shed?

just a theory i had the other day

[sour coral]

what are you on about

[magic isle]

the crold man

i think it was scabbers dad?

[sour coral]

ah sorry ive not seen or read harry potter

[magic isle]

ahh no worries friend

[dull mason]

harry's dad is in the shed. 21:32.43 harry potter prisoner of jazzberkan

[magic isle]

Revelation 21:4

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away." And He who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new."

reminds me of this lol

[dull mason]

"I will eat screws and pins. you cannot stop me"

James Potter 8:14

[sour coral]

"harry"

• herminee in prisoner of azkaban

[magic isle]

lol

[sour coral]

🤣

[white prism]

The most unrealistic thing about "MACUSA" is how the American wizards pronounce it, you'd be hard pressed to find a legit American that wouldn't pronounce it "mac-u-s-a"

It is laughably easy to get people to start chanting "U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!" if you're in a crowd

In fact I can't think of anything else that would not have each letter enunciated

USAjobs.gov
USAA
USA Today
For example

[lone canopy]

Would there be a muggle govt as well?

[white prism]

?

[hazy rose]

Who is this ?

If anyone knows

[white prism]

Supposed to be Salazar Slytherin, but the movie set is set up differently than how it's described in the books

[warped thistle]

Peter Pettigrew's father was called the crold man?

[dull mason]

i believe it to be a portmanteau of "Cranky" and "Old"

[magic isle]

yeah you've got it

[dull mason]

thank the gracious lord for gifting me with my encyclopaedic factual recall. amen

[solid folio]

The sorting hat takes their choices into account too

[modern moth]

GTA🤷

[lone canopy]

The Ilvermorny equivalent to the forbidden forest is the mystery flesh pit

/j

[modern moth]

Speaking of which, which house do you think you belong to in Ilvermorny?

[lone canopy]

Horned serpent

[cloud fossil]

This is incredible

[dull mason]

llvermorny? yeah, my liver is pretty mourny. (I drink way over the recommended limit FYI)

[solid folio]

We have a lacks liver meme in another server I'm in shame I can't do cross server emote

[warm ivy]

Perhaps we will get more of ilvermorny

[lone canopy]

What word is banned, Bot

[modern moth]

🤣

[worthy trench]

I'm gonna say M F P is banned.

[mossy coyote]

Massachusetts

[cloud fossil]

can you image waking up one morning and your professors are all like "ok kids, were heading to texas to see a mystery flesh pit and observe the muggles try to make sense of it in amusment"

[solid folio]

Feels like the mystery flesh pit would be in Florida

Also I know it's not canon but can we not have MBI and MIA (Magical Bureau of Investigation and Magical Intelligence Agency) for the US equivalent of the Ministry of Magic

I want the conspiracy theories to be explained by wizardkind covering up more than anything lol

[white prism]

Can someone explain why grindelwald changed so much between the 2nd and the 3rd movies? And I don't mean the actor

He went from "The Muggles need a firm hand of guidance, just look at their wars and rumors of wars, look at their weapons, even their weapons of mass destruction..."

To

"Muggles inferior blood supremacy 😠😠😠gotta kill Dumbledore and cheat an election 😡😡😡"

[solid folio]

When was fantastic beasts set? Don't think WMD actually makes sense

Manhattan project was in the 30s and the first nuke would have been 1944/5

Yeah I guess they tried to retcon his motives silently because it doesn't make sense in 1932 America

[white prism]

It was set in the 20s pre-depression but grindelwald was clearly sharing prophecy of "here's what is gonna happen if we continue to let them run amok"

[solid folio]

Idk

Why couldn't they have just made him mention the great war instead

[white prism]

Like "wizardkind needs to step in NOW or else we have THIS to look forward to"

[solid folio]

That makes more sense for his motivation

[white prism]

Cuz they wanted to show a mushroom cloud in the movie lol

[solid folio]

Like "yeah this is going to happen again they haven't learnt from last time" kinda thing

Plus it was actually a surprisingly commonly held opinion at the time that a second war was just waiting because of the treaty deals

[white prism]

I kind of felt sympathy for him tbh

Like "man his propaganda is working"

[solid folio]

Then it's just "hurr durr evil wizard"

[white prism]

Yeah I know

I wouldn't have minded the actor change if it didn't feel like they upended his motivations too

[solid folio]

I don't usually like actor changes anyway

[white prism]

And if they wanted to be like "well, this is what he secretly meant the whole time!" then they didn't do a good job of conveying that

Me neither

It's amber heards fault

[solid folio]

They could've used the emperor palpatine template at least

I.e. Manipulative on camera but in reality just a power greedy bad guy

[solid folio]

Well at least she's struggling to get parts now

[white prism]

Yeah but we paid a heavy toll

Lost jack sparrow too😔

[warm ivy]

It's amber Turd not heard

[flint condor]

Wait a minute—if Fred and George had the Marauder’s Map from before the first book, did Voldemort just not show up on top of Quirrel? 👀

Or did it say “Tom Riddle” and they didn’t know what that meant?

[warped thistle]

Good question. I wonder if Voldemort's possessive state would show up on the map. Do ghosts show up?
I think they do. I vaguely remeber something about peeves maybe

Who taught defence against the dark arts in the year before Quirrel btw?

[misty ember]

but peeves is not a ghost, he is a poltergeist, so probably different rules?

[warped thistle]

In German geist means ghost, so the set of all poltergeists seems to be a subset of ghosts

[flint condor]

Yes, I recall all the house ghosts showed up.

It would be funny if they'd done a little aside from Fred/George's point of view when they learned Voldemort was chillin' in Quirrel's office. They just decided that if they ignored it, it would go away 😆

[white prism]

https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Jinx_on_the_post_of_Defence_Against_the_Dark_Arts_teacher

[warped thistle]

I see. Olivia Green

[modern moth]

Is the HL story canon?

[warped thistle]

I would be on the side of saying no. It is inspired by JK's world, but she didn't really directly oversee/ok everything in the story.

[flint condor]

Yes

[warm ivy]

Like how they never questioned a person named petter petigrew with ron

[solid folio]

I guess that and the fact that teenagers probably wouldn't pay much attention to the movements of teachers. If anything they'd only be looking to see where to avoid

Probably would just think "oh Tom riddle he's a teacher's pet"

[worthy trench]

No. Portkeys stance is their games stories and elements are not be viewed as canon, just inspired by the world JK made. And JK has final word on everything canon

[white prism]

It's worth noting that This is from the Hogwarts Mystery game, which is also questionably canon

[modest girder]

Ooof.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgiOL-zQ31w this ones crazy 🙂

[modest plover]

Hey all

[grim furnace]

J.K. Rowling

[vernal mountain]

Oh i know that one, some evil ancient wizard

[worthy trench]

The idea of the Peverells making the UCs would be debunked by the fact they were known to have been made in the early middle ages (which is considered to be 6-10th centuries A.D.) which long predates them.

But ofc they have to get out content so they may have just put the theory out there whether they believe it or not or know the info above.

[foggy mural]

i feel like mudblood, in the harry potter universe, is worse than a racial slur

discuss?

[pearl veldt]

1.Cant help if your a wizard

2.Michael Jackson

[warped thistle]

I feel like it's exactly like a racial slur. Not different or worse.

[modern moth]

I guess so

[warm ivy]

Well humans did do witch hunts and also won war against wizards somehow i can see why wizard would hate humans and the half wizards

Salazar Slytherin hated them so much he was willing to kill kids

Maybe we might never know what happened

[warped thistle]

Sorry for being a nitpicky 🤓
Salazar didn't hate humans, he was a human himself. And he didn't hate half wizards, since in the lore you were either a wizard/witch or you were a muggle/squib no in between.
Yea he hated or felt them to be unworthy those who were muggleborn or half blood wizards/witches and muggles themselves (don't actually know what he thought of squibs now that I think about it - whether he hated them or whether he felt indifferent about them or whether he was ok integrating them into wizard society in some way)

[warm ivy]

I say humans to make it more simple as i don't feel like saying none magic users or whatever other name there is for them

My best guess is that during his time there was a lot of discrimination and witch hunts against them so that is why he is so antagonistic

[warped thistle]

None magic users ... so no-majs. I see you're an american slytherin

[warm ivy]

Yes my family comes from england so we all have to go to hogwarts

[torn oxide]

They consistently suggest across all the Wizarding World content that they're worried about diluting magical ability or magical identity. I think an aspect of it is certainly remaining hidden from and/or secret from the Muggle world, but I have great trouble believing one of the greatest wizards of his time being afraid of pre-medieval peasants.

[solid folio]

I think it's also a common misconception that mudbloods/half bloods would be weaker at magic as they're not from a pure blood family

[solid folio]

Repost

[carmine shadow]

Agh. Needs enhancing.

Pixel blur bits.

[solid folio]

Need a more comprehensive one too

With the Sacred 28

[carmine shadow]

Mhm

[solid folio]

Fun fact

OK apparently there was one Dorea Black that married a Charlus Potter so there is that link

Is there actually a comprehensive tree out there of all known family ties? Can't find anything online besides what I linked

[warm ivy]

Didn't wizards lose a war against nomajs?

[obtuse basin]

do all other races have to deepfake a briitsh accent so their spells come out right and they dont accidentally mispronounce something and turn their owl into a hamster?

[obtuse basin]

so Harry could potentially be a slytherin descendant? That could be another reason why the sorting hat wanted him in slytherin

[warm ivy]

Well kinda depends, since a lot of families are related to each other in some way

[solid folio]

We don't even know how he's related to Charlus

[torn oxide]

Is there any source for that? I know Crimes of Grindlewald alluded to one coming, and that they had some involvement in World War 1, but not that anything went against their long-running trend of maintaining magical secrecy

[boreal shuttle]

This really isn't how it works, unless you're talking about headcanon. There's some slight wiggle room - like dismissing comments made on social media or during an interview and only viewing things as canon that have been told in official storytelling or published on Pottermore/the WW site - but the games definitely aren't canon, irrespective of your personal stance on the matter.

And imo that's a good thing in the case of HL, at least at this moment in time. Ancient magic isn't fleshed out nearly enough to be part of canon lore and a character like the MC really shouldn't exist outside of fanfiction.

[worthy trench]

Its an assumption in the fandom that they lost a war with muggles at some point in the past which prompted the SoS creation and their separating from muggles society-wise.

All we know is the fear of extermination by muggles was widespread enough that wizards went into hiding. So muggles must have been effective enough to cause that back then. Also recall that the magic human population is far lower than the muggle one which would help.

And most wizards in Europe/West weren't able to do magic as effectively or at all without wands, so remove those and they were dead 9/10 times.

[warm ivy]

Oh i see

[fringe grove]

Need someone who knows HP lore to help me out
So I know Merlin exists in the HP world.
But how powerful is he? Is he the strongest wizard to have existed? Considering his Legends are known by muggles?
Is there any lore on those or is it pure guessing/opinion based

[dapper lark]

All I really know about him is he created the order of Merlin, was a Slytherin, and Really Liked Gazebos.

[solid folio]

It's possible Grindelwald or Dumbledore would be the strongest wizard of all time simply because they managed to take control of the elder wand

Although Dumbledore won the elder wand from Grindelwald so I'd probably say he's even stronger

And also bear in mind AD is the only wizard Voldemort truly feared

We don't know much about Merlins accomplishments in the HP universe though so it's hard to say if he was stronger than Dumbledore or not

[fringe grove]

I see. Alright
Untill it's specifically stated by the writer herself. I suppose it's just opinion and headcannon till then
My headcannon is that he Is.
Simply because he's this Mythological, Historical figure. Aaaannd I like Arthurian legends.. lol

[warm ivy]

The elder wand is unreliable and it's rules shouldn't be taken serious

I also find it odd that merlin has become somewhat of a myth in the wizarding world as many people don't even know he existed or that he even went to hogwarts

[solid folio]

Even then dumbledore is an exceptionally strong wizard

If his plan had worked he would've died being the last true master of it even

[warm ivy]

I always hated that wand

[solid folio]

Not sure what other wizards you would rank as the all time strongest besides Voldemort, Grindelwald and Dumbledore

Maybe the MC in Hogwarts Legacy

[warm ivy]

It's hard to say

[solid folio]

Nicholas Flamel gets a mention?

[warm ivy]

Lore accurate merlin would be the most powerful wizard but i don't know much about his time alive

[solid folio]

As well as the Peverell Brothers?

See that's assuming Merlin is accurate to the mythology

I'm skeptical because muggle would exaggerate his true strength

[warm ivy]

Indeed but i haven't seen most wizards do dueling that well

[warm ivy]

Even wizards call him the most powerful wizard and i others think he is a myth which i find funny

[solid folio]

Meanwhile Flamel has definitely made the philosopher's stone which is a mighty accomplishment

And the Peverell brothers are implied to have made the deathly hallows for themselves rather than death

Maybe Merlin is just their version of a god then

[warm ivy]

Oh the stone the one that built it must be really powerful as we have only seen one so far

[solid folio]

And the cloak too

Cloaks are relatively easy to make. This cloak is special because it doesn't wear off and it's difficult to detect

So if they have made the hallows that's an impressive feat too

[warm ivy]

Yup perhaps the brothers has knowledge of some powerful magic and used it to make the hollows and since most people don't believe they had that power they say it was death that made them

[solid folio]

I think theres one called Igar the Terrible too or something. He is the only other confirmed horcrux creator

Which i would say ranks him highly on the power level

I don't think it's easy to make a horcrux

Otherwise there'd be more confirmed cases

[warm ivy]

I think most wizards are smart enough to know immortality is bad

And damaging the soul is far worst, look at voldemort in limbo

[fringe grove]

I've never read the books. so this is all based on what I've seen others say. but wasnt harry a possible "master" of it? but decided against using it?

[fringe grove]

I kinda like this Idea.
Merlin, being so powerful he basically becomes some sort of Wizard "God" of sorts

I imagine the writer just added merlin into the books just because He's this famous, Mythological "Hero" and not expanding on it..
Which.. kinda bothers me, as a learner of all things Mythology.ahh I cant handle it. feels disrespecful 😭

[worthy trench]

The issue is he was born 1000 years ago in HP lore and died around that mark too. So the knowledge won't be there. They may have more info than muggles but not necessarily anymore.

[worthy trench]

Well in RL, Merlin went through a power creep overtime from a druid to the sorcerer supreme in modern depictions with god-like power. And wizards would likely exaggerate his power aswell as he fell into mythical status among them too.

Like all we know on him was, he was the founder of a faction of wizards who made laws against using magic on muggles, and promoted equality among wizards and muggles and was allied with king arthur and an enemy of morgana le fay.

And he went to Hogwarts and befriended cadogan at some point.

Everything else is up in the air canon wise

[fringe grove]

Honestly I would love a Merlin HP series or movie lol

[worthy trench]

Yah

I have a whole headcanon in my head for him

[fringe grove]

ooh nice.

My (future) character in HL (Once i get the game.. can't afford it lol) will be "related" to him, in some way 🤣

[worthy trench]

yah i have that in my mind later.

i couldn't come up with a name though

I wanted to reference him via the name

[fringe grove]

My server nick on here, is actually a reference to Dumbledore and Merlin 🙂

[worthy trench]

Ah yes

[fringe grove]

Wylit is one of the names of Merlin in Mythology

[worthy trench]

hmm

I have Ambrose for a surname in mind

for a future character

[fringe grove]

Merlin, also known as Myrddin Wyllt, Merlin Caledonensis, or Merlin Sylvestrus

[worthy trench]

yah he has loads

[fringe grove]

I liked Wylit. sounded better

[worthy trench]

and more if oyu equate him with other characters in other legends

like the scottish wizard in one legend/s

Lakoiden or something

starts with L

One idea i'd have for merlin is to have him be born in hogwarts founding era

then grow up

time travel to the past

and become the merlin of legend there

and meet king arthur and co

as legends put them in the pre-hogwarts era

[fringe grove]

I like it

[worthy trench]

thanks

i;d have to have him make a timer turner or they already exist

otherwise its a no go on time travel

[fringe grove]

My headcannon for him is Similar.
Where he, or one of his descendents/Reincarnations. Shows up to help the wizarding world/Great Britain(Albion/Clas Myrddin for Old/original names) and ensure it's safety

[worthy trench]

cool

I have fanfic ideas which take elements from different franchises and combines them

Like taking Order of Merlin name and lore for a potential Disney/Marvel/MCU/Sorcerer's Apprentice verse

[fringe grove]

Hm. Interesting

[worthy trench]

Would have been for background lore

the same idea i may use for a hp fic

like modern day merlin followers

secret group using the name

[fringe grove]

Ahh, Alright. cool cool

[worthy trench]

heck HL lore gave us a way to have merlin and co in modern era

enchanted sleep

like that witch in the newspaper who woke up after 600 years

and merlin was in some legends put to sleep in a cave or mound

as was arthur on avalon

[fringe grove]

Yeah, Like in the BBC's Merlin tv show

[worthy trench]

yah

I'd borrow from that show too

for a shared hp/merlin verse

thats a popular one in fanfic

or was back in the day

dunno how it is now

[fringe grove]

Not sure either.. Still waiting for a series where arthur comes back..

[boreal shuttle]

Wizards actually call him the most famous, not the most powerful.

But this is something where WW/HP lore is very thin in general. We really don't have any information about the potential difference in power levels of wizards and witches during different eras, or even of those in most countries.

As of right now Voldemort is still the top dog when it comes to raw power, although Dumbledore - and arguably Grindelwald as well - have him beat in versatility and possibly knowledge.

[warped thistle]

A Merlin wizarding world series, showing us how the legend grew up and became what he was, and seeing an earlier version of Hogwarts that is closer to the time of the founders :pog:

[solid folio]

Dumbledore is the only wizard Voldemort feared so I think it's possible AD is even stronger

[warped thistle]

I think it's not only possible but fair to say Dumbledore was actually a more powerful wizard than Voldemort

[boreal shuttle]

Dumbledore with the Elder Wand was matched by Voldemort during their duel in the MoM atrium and would arguably have died if he didn't have Fawkes as a trump card. He also couldn't undo the jinx on the DADA position despite having the power and knowledge of the Elder Wand.

I feel like both feats and comments made by Dumbledore himself make it pretty clear that Voldemort had a very slight edge when it comes to raw power and potential. Dumbledore was simply a smarter and more versatile fighter than post-Horcruxes/resurrection Voldemort.

[warped thistle]

The elder wand granted knowledge too?

I bet if Dumbledore fought to kill not only to defend himself and Harry, he'd win.
Yes, Fawkes intervened but arguably Dumbledore was also holding back unlike Voldemort.

[boreal shuttle]

Yeah, according to The Tales of Beedle the Bard it was capable of sharing the knowledge of previous owners with its current master, although we don't know how that works exactly.

Idk about Dumbledore arguably holding back. On what basis? There's really nothing in the actual fight to suggest that he did. And why would he even do that? It makes little sense given the situation. It's true that Dumbledore wasn't trying to kill or even defeat Voldemort though, I will concede that. One could argue though that he didn't try it because he knew he couldn't, although him wanting to prioritise buying time and keeping Harry safe is the more likely scenario.
Anyway, as I see it, Fawkes intervening can only mean one of two things, in decreasing likelihood:

1. Fawkes realised that his master/owner was beaten through the deep connection they shared and intervened on his behalf or
2. Dumbledore could somehow communicate with Fawkes on a virtually telepathic level and made him intercept Voldemort's Killing Curse

Both of these can only lead to one conclusion: Dumbledore had to resort to a one-time "Get out of Jail Free" card to deal with the situation.

Ultimately I think most everyone agrees that Dumbledore was the smarter fighter and had a more versatile spell repertoire. If we accept that as a fact and also take the Elder Wand into account, Voldemort wouldn't have had a chance if he were also less powerful than base Dumbledore. The only way for him to have matched/stalemated Dumbledore is through superior power.

And then we also have secondary situations, like the aforementioned jinx on the DADA position, Dumbledore falling victim to the possession (although that is admittedly my headcanon as I can't accept Dumbledore simply acting out of sentiment) placed on the ring Horcrux and several comments about Voldemort and a young Tom Riddle made by Dumbledore himself; all of that combined make it pretty clear that Voldemort had the slight edge in power, imo.

[cloud fossil]

I don’t think there was ever actually a curse on the position, i think it was more mentioned in a sort of joking manner and there was just a lot of bad luck that accompanied the job

[boreal shuttle]

There was definitely a jinx on the position, Dumbledore himself says as much in HBP. Voldemort cast it when he applied for the position in the mid to late 1960s.

[cloud fossil]

dang good thing I’m on the sixth book so I can re-learn everything that has seeped out of my brain

Sometimes I forget how old these people are

Like isn’t hagrid like 50 around the Chamber of Secrets?

Mind blowing

[boreal shuttle]

Hagrid's 63/64 in CoS, actually. He's just slightly younger than Voldemort himself

[cloud fossil]

yeah bc they were like in school at the same time

again, absolutely boggling

[boreal shuttle]

Most characters, like Snape or Lupin for example, seemed older than they actually were due to their experience but yeah, Hagrid was definitely the opposite lol.

[white prism]

In fantastic beasts they say that when a Dumbledore is in true need, a Phoenix will come to their aid

[boreal shuttle]

Exactly, which is why I mentioned it as the more likely scenario. JKR probably didn't plan that much ahead when she originally wrote the series, so other options are fair guesses as well.

[warped thistle]

Idk about Dumbledore arguably holding back. On what basis?

Based on the fact that he was fighting defensively but not willing to fight back with lethal intent.
Just like for muggles it is much easier to fight back an attacker with lethal means, than to fight back an attacker who is out to kill you with the aim to keep them alive somehow. In the latter situation one is holding back and not using one's full power. I doubt the same principle doesn't apply to wizards.

Interesting. That part about knowledge sharing of the elder wand, can one only read that if one has that book, or is that also mentioned in the story of the brothers version that one could read in the deathly hallows?

[warped thistle]

Also the options 1. and 2. aren't exhausting all possibilities for why Fawkes might have wanted to intervene. It's not a true dichotomy.
He also may as well have noticed that there is a risk Dumbledore might get harmed, not that this risk was a certainty necessarily.

[boreal shuttle]

While there is some truth to that, it isn't as simple as that. It's only easier to fight back with lethal intent if you are almost evenly matched, especially in a setting where cheap shots are much less likely to happen. In case of a superior opponent it's much safer to fight defensively and not offer many openings, while waiting for a chance to strike/counter - to name an example of such a scenario from another franchise: Obi-Wan vs. Anakin/Knightfall Vader in Revenge of the Sith.
So while it's certainly harder to take someone out when you don't meet fire with fire, it's also the preferable approach if you know that you can't match them in pure offense. The moment he needed Fawkes to save him was the one moment in the entire duel where Dumbledore went completely on the offensive and it almost cost him his life.

Just think about the scaling you're suggesting. If Dumbledore is smarter, more versatile and more powerful without the Elder Wand - meaning that Voldemort doesn't have a single advantage other than being willing to use the darkest forms of magic - how could Voldemort possibly stand a chance against Dumbledore with the Elder Wand? The wand isn't all-powerful but in this case it should make Dumbledore practically unbeatable for Voldemort. And yet Dumbledore never sought out direct combat with Voldemort, even during the first war when Harry wasn't part of the equation.
It makes sense for Voldemort to keep his distance but the same isn't true for Dumbledore, who was running out of time.

And you'd need the actual book for that part, DH doesn't mention it.

[boreal shuttle]

Fawkes ever only appears, be it for Harry or Dumbledore, when he really needs to. So while this is certainly a possibility, it isn't very likely imo. But it's objectively still a fair guess.

[warped thistle]

A police officer with a gun is not evenly matched with a crazy aggressive civilian, yet it is very hard for the former to subdue the latter and keep them alive

[boreal shuttle]

That analogy is extremely flawed though and doesn't apply at all to a magical duel where both combatants are fighting with the same means. There are real world analogies one could use, like professional boxing, but even that would be very circumstantial.

[warped thistle]

They aren't fighting with the same means if one is willing to use all kinds of magic and the other is excluding dark magic from their repertoire

[boreal shuttle]

Dumbledore definitely used the dark arts, he simply didn't use the more obscure and "evil" spells. And he still managed to beat Grindelwald, who actually had the Elder Wand and was always presented as his peer.

But Voldemort being unscrupulous while Dumbledore wasn't is definitely still an advantage, I will agree on that.

[solid folio]

Dumbledore knowing about fates worse than death implies he's seen/done some messed up stuff

[boreal shuttle]

Yeah, we also know that he also had some very questionable views in his youth.

[solid folio]

Dumbledore knew about the horcruxes by then anyway so that's probably why he didn't try to kill him

There isn't really a way of objectively defeating someone that has 6 horcruxes still

[boreal shuttle]

Dumbledore actually used some pretty powerful spells that could have ended, so to say, Voldemort if they hit him. And the moment when he almost lost the duel and his life was also the moment where he went completely on the offensive and tried to entrap Voldemort with a fire rope.

He also didn't know how many Horcruxes were left and "killing" Voldemort would have bought them some much needed time. So while I think that his main objective was to stall and keep Harry safe, he still went on the offensive mutliple times to try and take Voldemort out of the fight.

Ultimately we will never know unless JKR gives a clear answer, which she has no reason to. I just think that we have more strong evidence to suggest that Voldemort had the slight edge in power than vice versa, while Dumbledore had the upper hand with his battle IQ and versatility.

[worthy trench]

Goin off the book duel AD schooled LV in that fight imo and the only moment LV got the upper hand was due to Nagini attacking AD and then using that moment to use AK on him (which if Fawkes hadn't intervened to take the AK, likely would have killed AD. But otherwise it was all AD imo based on the text and dialogue.

[boreal shuttle]

That wasn't Nagini. Voldemort overpowered Dumbledore's fire rope and transfigured it into a snake.

Other than that it was a complete back and forth until Dumbledore used the opportunity Fawkes gave him to try and trap/drown Voldemort with the water orb spell, which failed.

I really have no idea at which point Dumbledore supposedly schooled Voldemort, or ever gained the upper hand.

[worthy trench]

Sorry snake then. Regardless same scenario happened.

I go by how AD spoke when duelling which makes me think he was always in control and holding back minus the one part with the snake-AK combo from LV.

He was calm through the whole duel. Speaking causally as one would over a cup of tea according HP.

[boreal shuttle]

That's just Dumbledore though, he was calm 99% of the time. It was also psychological warfare because he knew it would drive Voldemort crazy, just like calling him Tom - an attitude Harry beautifully replicated in the final duel, to bait Voldemort into using AK.

So yeah, just an extreme difference in disposition - calm and collected vs. irritable and an explosive temper.

[dapper lark]

Tom loves to use AK, he doesn’t need any bait. And why was it bait to use AK was there any evidence that using it with Harry’s elder wand would rebound?

[solid folio]

Best defence is a good offence I guess

It would make sense practically speaking to attack at some point in a wizard duel to try and pressure your opponent rather than just defend constantly

Also yeah in real life combat sports fighters that stay calm tend to be the more experienced ones and they also tend to win more

Was probably LV's first time matching against someone of equal/greater strength

Oh and finally Dumbledore definitely would've known Harry was a horcrux at that point based on the signs over the fifth and previous years

[boreal shuttle]

After it having just failed to kill Harry yet again? I definitely think that Harry baiting him was necessary in this case.

Harry pretty much bet everything on it backfiring.

[solid folio]

Yeah in that scene we can disregard what happened in the film that never actually happened in books and doesn't make sense

Wasn't it just priori incantum that killed LV? He was in a heavily weakened state anyway though

Ah no I think I mixed up one concept with another

OK this actually doesn't make sense. Why did the wand "kill" Harry in the forbidden forest if this is the reason for it backfiring?

If this is correct it should have rebounded and hit Voldemort in the forbidden forest too?

I wish it'd been written that Harry simply bested him fair and square rather than some weird wand lore logic

[boreal shuttle]

Because Harry didn't defend himself in the forest. It backfired in the final duel because their spells actually locked/connected.

[warm ivy]

How is he that famous if most wizards don't even know he was real? Also i think what makes a powerful wizard is being able to have dexterity is the use of difficult magic i don't really think voldemort is that powerful as he performed poorly against dumbledore

[solid folio]

I think the spells locking was just a movie thing

[boreal shuttle]

Huh? Ofc they know that he was real.

And I have expounded on why Voldemort most certainly didn't perform poorly against Dumbledore in a few of my previous posts.

[solid folio]

I think he's just used to blowing away whoever is in front of him and has never met someone strong

Dumbledore meanwhile already has experience against Grindelwald

Could James Potter for example be considered strong? Above average possibly but not Dumbledore level

Although I do think Voldemort is genuinely powerful and not just because he uses dark arts

Like you have to consider the other death eaters are also unafraid of using them and yet Voldemort stands out

[boreal shuttle]

Spells locking and staying connected, yes - aside from Priori Incantatem - but spells could still collide, which happened in this particular case.

[solid folio]

Let's run two hypotheticals.

Scenario A - Voldemort and Harry aren't the masters of the elder wand. Who wins?

Scenario B - Voldemort is the true master

I think in A Harry would've won anyway. B is hard to say I think it's close

I don't think it's unbeatable as it's hyped up to be but it's definitely powerful

[boreal shuttle]

Harry wouldn't have lasted 20 seconds against Voldemort without plot induced circumstances. He's the best fighter/duelist amongst his peers but he was basically still a student and at this point in time he'd still lose in a straight 1v1 against many Death Eaters, let alone Voldemort who was on a completely different level.

This is one of the things I truly appreciated about the simplicity of the final duel in the book and the series in general. While Harry is special, he's not the all powerful chosen one archetype with extremely special abilities or unrealistic growth.

[solid folio]

But bear in mind this is Voldemort in a weakened state with all his horcruxes destroyed

But one thing I appreciate is that despite all the knowledge he's gained and how justified he would be in casting unforgivables which he has learned to use, he still insists on simply winning by disarming Voldemort

[boreal shuttle]

Voldemort being weakened by that is speculation though. Before the last confrontation he literally 1v3'd McGonagall, Shacklebolt and Slughorn and was winning despite them being protected by Harry's sacrifice.

So while he was bordering on the insane, his power seemed to be intact.

[solid folio]

Fair enough then

I mean it's not like McGonnogall alone is a pushover even she's meant to be strong lore wise

I guess based on that Harry could never have won without luck on his side

Shacklebolt is no slouch either

[worthy trench]

Ya his power remains intact regardless of horcruxes.

We dunno how the 1 v 3 would have gone if not for LVs rage induced explosive blast which knocked the 3 off their feet

[hazy rose]

I need help

Does anyone know what these are ??

There in the first movie

Dementor

[worthy trench]

Just a random ghoul statue i think

Or a generic wizard statue

I think its there just to give off a scary vibe to the corridor.

Creepiness

given the section is were we get into darker territory with a 3 headed dog guarding a trap door

[cloud fossil]

hogwarts in its spooky decor arc is all

[solid folio]

I think McGonnogall and Shacklebolt could've given him a run for his money

[boreal shuttle]

It's safe to say that he was at the very least stalemating them, even though the trio was protected by Harry's sacrifice. Under normal circumstances he should have won comfortably.

It just goes to show again how much better the true magical titans were compared to "normal" wizards and witches. Number advantage is a pretty big deal in magical battles after all - even a witch of Bellatrix' calibre was having trouble against Hermione, Ginny and Luna simply due to it being a 1v3.

[solid folio]

I would not call Shacklebolt normal by any means. Don't forget he's appointed to protect the PM, he's a certified badass

[hazy rose]

Guys no spoilers please but why is there paintings of trolls in tutus hitting wizards in paintings in hogwarts legacy

It’s so strange

[hazy rose]

Thanks!

In the enchanted forest

?

[misty ember]

doesnt specify where this happened

[hazy rose]

Is your pfp your player ?

[misty ember]

yep

[hazy rose]

It’s cool!

Can I ask something?

[misty ember]

sure

[hazy rose]

Are the trolls in the tapestry the same in the first movie ?

Species

[misty ember]

probably, there is only a single species of troll, but there are sub-spieces if you can call them that... forest troll, armored troll etc.

[hazy rose]

Are they docile?

I am guessing they have been cursed to act angry

[misty ember]

docile, maybe... but mostly just dumb

[hazy rose]

Ohh thanks

[boreal shuttle]

He was still a normal wizard, all things considered, and was previously beaten in a 1v1 by a weaker version of Bellatrix.

Wizards like Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald are just on an entirely different level. Titans, so to say.

[dull mason]

Hello. I have a lore question... so that card Harry gets with dumbledore on it. And he's like "eoah I got albus" and then he vanishes and he goes "What?! He's gone?!" And then Ron says "he can't stay there all day!" Is that ever explained? Like does albus just spend 30 minutes of his day staring at a wall so that children can collect cards of him? What's going on there?

[warped thistle]

I was thinking the cards from the chocolate frogs worked similar to paintings, where the people in them can choose to come and go

[dull mason]

That'd be such a ripoff. You have a collectors album of nothing but blank cards and you'd just have to tell your friends "oh no I promise this one is dumbledore!" And the frog is alive. I don't think I'd be spending my wizard money on it.

[warped thistle]

Under the portrait of each wizard/which there is also their name.
The friends who would doubt you would either be muggles or ignorant wizards not knowing how the famous candy cards work, which I assume is common knowledge.

[warm ivy]

I used to think wizards have some sort of wallet or bag where things that disappear get stored there like in the game

[worthy trench]

They were hitting him with their clubs? Did he survive that. Cos getting hit by a troll with a club is a surefire way to serious injury or death

[keen trail]

Is it just me, or do these 3 look like Harry, Ron and Hermione?!

[solid folio]

One of them is a Weasley I think? So it's possible

It was done on purpose I mean

[misty ember]

uhh, no... from the left it is Leander Prewett, Lucan Brattleby and Cressida Bloom

[cloud fossil]

Mrs. Weasley is a Prewett, so yeah technically that’s one of Ron’s ancestors

[misty ember]

huh, never knew that

[cloud fossil]

🎶 the more you knooooow 🎶

happy to share my knowledge

Spread the wealth

[keen trail]

I was just saying they LOOK like them. As in a cool subtle Easter egg of sorts.

[dapper lark]

Yeah, I can see the resemblance

[white prism]

Is Lucan a fifth year? He seems so squeaky and excitable like a second year

[solid folio]

I knew the name seemed familiar

Leander definitely seems to be who Percy takes after

[warped thistle]

She could also be a distant xgrand cousin x removed or something like that. Not necessarily one of Ron's ancestors

[solid folio]

Molly is ginger too though

I feel like Leander is modelled after Bill/Percy and Garret is Fred/George

Would imply their mischievousness is from Arthur's side which tbh I can kind of see

Seeing as Arthur's first reaction to his sons using the flying car was "how was it?"

Definitely see the resemblance

[modern moth]

I feel like Leander is a confidence lacking version of Percy.

Kinda reminded him of myself.

[solid folio]

It's quite funny to think that future brother in laws(?) met at Hogwarts

I'm pretty sure Leander at least is a direct ancestor lik a great grandad

Unless there's some evidence directly contradicting it

[solid folio]

The wiki describes him as outwardly bold and boastful, sometimes overly boastful

[modern moth]

Yeah, just like me

[solid folio]

Yeah there's no confirmed grandfather of Molly so it's very possible it's Leander

I'm like 90% sure

[modern moth]

Yeah, nothing confirms for name coincidence anyway,

Or they might be related

[solid folio]

It's the mannerisms and appearance as well

[modern moth]

Like was Havelock Sweeting related to Poppy? we don't know

[solid folio]

He just seems like Percy

[modern moth]

Devs drew a lot of inspiration from the originals to try to make the game authentic.

[solid folio]

Yep true

If there had to be one character in HL that's a direct ascendant of a HP universe character I'd go with Leander though as my guess

I don't think they all are nor should they be but he's very similar

[warped thistle]

What is the evidence affirming it?

[solid folio]

Personality, appearance, family name, gap in the tree from what I can tell

[warped thistle]

Based on how pureblood families marry it is much more likely that some Lestrange, Malfoy or Black in the books to be a direct descendant of Prof. Black, rather than someone to be a direct descendant of Leander or Prof. Weasley, because their family had no problems mingling with muggles and leave more unrelated Family branches.

[warped thistle]

There are 4 generations between the game and the books, using those factors as evidence of direct ancestry is very optimistic.

[solid folio]

We'd also have Mr Prewet being born before 1932 according to the wiki so if it's true Leander would've had to be 30-40. If not then there'd be another missing link between Leanders generation

[shy gyro]

The books mention Gideon and Fabian Prewett. Mollys dead brothers.

[modern moth]

Poppy looks like a person from a Star Wars comic…

[grand sentinel]

i mean it's still possible. it's not uncommon to have children at that age

and if there's no mention of a grandfather of molly's then it might be he died before she could know him proper or before she had a family of her own

if anything, my bet is ominis being an ancestor of voldemort. quite literally lmao

thank you!

y'know that's valid. rock on 🤘

[solid folio]

It's very possible but unlikely since in those days they married young and had kids early

Since Leander is about 14/15 he could be her great grandad

Who knows though maybe wizards have different customs anyway

[grand sentinel]

i mean. molly had older brothers. i still think it's pretty plausible he was older when he had kids. and, if not then she could have been a surprise baby. it's kinda cool the few traces we have of the future generations

[solid folio]

Also I feel like they've deliberately kept it vague so we can have our own head canon

[grand sentinel]

more than likely lmao

[warped thistle]

More than likely they just didn't care enough to provide detailed family tree relations between side characters and possible descendants in the canon.

[keen trail]

Hmm.....I've been thinking about this a lot. And I believe the Ancient Magic we're able to wield is the essence of nature itself.

[grim finch]

I always saw ancient magic as ‘origin’ magic as sorts. Like, the root of all magic kind of thing.

[solid folio]

If they didn't care they would've just given generic surnames. They put at least some thought into it

Some are quite generic yes but not all

[warped thistle]

I didn't say they didn't care at all. I said they didn't care enough to make it as detailed as to invent detailed family tree relations between side characters in the game and characters in the books.
You made it sound like the reason they didn't confirm family tree relations is because in the creating process of these side characters the developers thought how "let's deliberately leave these family trees out so the player can make up their own mind whether they are direct ancestors of the characters 100 years later". And all I'm saying is that you have no good evidence for thinking this is what they actually thought, they could have just not cared enough to create unnecessary details for characters that are side characters to begin with.

[modern moth]

I wonder what subjects the Keepers taught at Hogwarts, and what Houses they were head of?

[modern moth]

Percival is Hufflepuff, Charles and San are Slytherin, Niamh is Ravenclaw

And they didn't say what subjects they taught

[lavish pulsar]

Percival taught divination, Charles taught transfiguration, San taught beasts and niamh taught defense against the dark arts

[modern moth]

I guessed that San taught beasts because of his trial - presumably Niamh moved into the headmistress job to free up the DADA post for Isidora

[solid folio]

@supple stirrup

[supple stirrup]

ok so he must have branched off

[solid folio]

It's not actually specified

All we know is his Aunt being Noctua gaunt but she's not listed either

[supple stirrup]

did they skip harry

[solid folio]

He might even be in the lineage related to the Potters

[solid folio]

Looks like it lol

[supple stirrup]

because i think rose potter is harry potter daughter

i think

[warped thistle]

Where is that family tree information from?

[supple stirrup]

i dont remember tho

[solid folio]

I don't think Lily would be related to the Gaunts either

[warped thistle]

Harry had a sister Rose?

[solid folio]

https://www.deviantart.com/anime-otaku20/art/Gaunt-family-tree-754620334

[supple stirrup]

no dude

they probably skipped harry and ginny

[solid folio]

Never mind it's a fan fic....

[supple stirrup]

;-;

cuh

it probably was

ANIME-OTAKU

[solid folio]

Rose Potter is someone who travelled back in time

[supple stirrup]

huh

yeah

wait

rose potter doesnt exist

[solid folio]

We can say this is accurate to the canon

[supple stirrup]

where is ominis

they not have

[solid folio]

He doesn't have confirmed parents

[supple stirrup]

oh yeah

mb

[solid folio]

And Noctua Gaunt isn't mentioned anywhere in canon either

[supple stirrup]

yeah

harry is distant cousin to voldemort

aka tom riddle jr

[solid folio]

The Peverells go a very long way back

So far back they may as well not be related even

They're the creators of the Hallows don't forget

[supple stirrup]

yea

@solid folio

[lilac flax]

Theory: Morfin Gaubt is the father of Ominis

[worthy trench]

He could be. based on artwork he's in his 40s or 50s by TRs birth

though i imagine he's a cousin or something to that part of the family

like morfin has a sister who is o aminis aunt. EDIT - I though you meant Merope's father. Yah its not likely Morfin is the father of Ominis I think

[modern moth]

I don’t think so - the game is set in the 1890s, We know that Morfin was convicted of murdering Lord Voldemort’s parents (even though Lord Voldemort had done it himself and implanted the memory) and spent the rest of his days in Azkaban. If we therefore accept that the Senior Riddles were killed in the 1930s or so, this happened long after the time period when the game is set, so Ominis would be out of Hogwarts by then

[worthy trench]

And I dunno if Marvolo, Morfin or Merope even went to Hogwarts. Their poverty would suggest not.

[shy gyro]

There is a theory that Marvolo is Ominis older brother that does work with the timeline somwhat.

[modern moth]

I got the impression from HBP that when we first meet Marvolo (in the early 1900s?), he’s a relatively middle-aged man, so while there could be a relationship between Ominis and Marvolo, it might be a significant age gap…

[shy gyro]

I'd say that's in the 1920s already. Not 26 yet, but not far away. 26 is when Voldemort is born.
Merope is alive and doesn't look like she's under 14. Tom Sr is shown as well, alongside Cecilia, his then fiancee/girlfriend.
So I'd say when we first see that family, it's likely that the year is 24 or 25. If we reeeally stretch the imagination, we can say 23, but I can't see a reason to go before 20.
By the time Voldemort is Born, Ominis, who's persumably 15 in 1890, would be roughly 51. Give or take a year.

If we assume he's still alive

So we aren't talking an age gap of over 10 years, in all likelyhood.

[shy gyro]

According to the gravestone in the movie, the Riddles died in 43.
Voldemort was born in Dec.31 1926. So he would have graduated from Hogwarts most likely in spring 45. And we know he was around 15 when he killed his father and grandparents.

[solid folio]

According to the wiki Ominis would've had to have died by 1920

Or something like that

[worthy trench]

Well its to keep with canon lore until we are otherwsie told he lives. Since the last known Gaunts alive are Marvolo, Morfin and Merope by 1920.

This is those who still use Gaunt surname at any rate.

[solid folio]

I mean it's possible he could have changed his surname even

And still be alive for a little longer

He'd be what 40 something in 1920 that seems a little young

[worthy trench]

Well its what HP wiki is goin with until otherwise revealed in a later game or something

Wikis make or have to make assumptions on some things until otherwise new info becomes available.

[twilit basin]

I firmly go by the assertion that Ominis changed his name and left his family. Also, if the MC truly remained his friend, there's no way they'd just let him be stuck in that situation without some help.

It's wishful thinking for one of my favorite characters, but I need to hope.

ominis

Same, pretty much.

Protect him at all costs.

[olive flint]

I still think Ominis will die early. Sweet, sweet tragedy...

[keen trail]

Does anybody else think there's a big plot hole concerning our character? Like, if we're following HP rules, children attend Hogwarts from 1st year up. But we start attending in our 5th yr. Are we to assume we didn't possess any magic till then? That we're essentially late bloomers?

[stark fern]

yeah basically

it seems to be a characteristic of the three people we know about that possess ancient magic

[stark fern]

see that's what fanfiction is for so he can live happy and grow old away from his family

[olive flint]

I would also be fine with that ending. Since we don't know what will happen to him, anything is possible.

[stark fern]

very true

[olive flint]

And everything will be better/more realistic than Voldemort having a child (sorry, not so sorry) xD

[worthy trench]

Just do alt timeline in fanfiction then you can go wild.

[twilit basin]

I agree 100%. Lol

[modern moth]

He does have a child.

As I recall.

[twilit basin]

Yeah, we were referring to the Cursed Child.

[languid lodge]

I consider howgarts legacy more canon that that book ( how do u fit that many plot holes into 1 book anyways ??)

[twilit basin]

Same.

[olive flint]

I refuse to accept Cursed Child as canon...

[shy gyro]

Delphi existing isn't what's not working, funnily enough. It's not even Harry not knowing that she exists that doesn't make sense.
It's Draco not knowing she exists.
They never had a reason to hide his first cousin from him.

So Scorpius should have known about her all along

[languid lodge]

I mean it's is plausible for whatever reason they want , my problem is the time turner

[shy gyro]

The time travel logic, you mean? In Prisoner of Askaban, you don't actually change the past, as anyone who travels to the past is part of the past. Just like in the first Terminator movie. Terminator 2 doesn't exactly change the time travel logic. It shows the main characters try to alter the timeline, but doesn't reveal if they actually succeeded or failed. First movie logic was never shown to be broken. It just has characters not understanding how it all works and attempt to do things that violate the law of causation.
It's Terminator 3, where they showed that they were at least partially sucessful with altering the timeline, where it all went down the drain. In order to make a sucessful Terminator 2 sequel, it needs to either work as a Terminator 1 prequel at the same time, or be objectively better than the first two movies combined, even when looked at through nostalgia goggles.

A change in how time travel itself works is a continuity mistake that cannot be fixed. I agree with that.

[misty ember]

two words - Multiverse theory 🤣

[modern moth]

Multiverse, eh?

Speaking of Isabel Constantine, Kate and Luna

[misty ember]

you know me too well, sis 😄

[warped thistle]

Wait a second. I just noticed the names and pfps

Being siblings in a different house is rare

[modern moth]

Well, she's kinda lawful evil, and I am chaotic good.

[warped thistle]

Interesting. I would have thought the houses would be exactly reversed then

[solid folio]

Albus Potter and James Jr

[warped thistle]

Weasleys, Blacks, Malfoys.
A couple exceptions don't disprove the rule

[modern moth]

Weren’t all the Weasleys Gryffindors though?

[shy gyro]

All the Weasleys are Gryffindor. All the Blacks except for Sirius were Slytherin, same as the Malfoys.
I'm sure the Lovegoods have Ravenclaw tradition, and the Smiths Hufflepuff ones.
But occasionally, there are individuals from certain families that get sorted into other houses than their families for some reason. It does happen. It's just not super common.

[modern moth]

There are 28 families that is considered true pure-blood by 1930s.

And some of them are easily sorted into certain houses in Hogwarts

[flint condor]

It kind of seems to apply to real life, too, to an extent. My parents and I are all Gryffindor, though my brothers are both Slytherin, so idk 😛

[final sinew]

But imagining Voldy and Bella doing the dirty is scary

[white prism]

I never imagined Voldemort having sexual desire at all and it's weird that he did tbh

[final sinew]

That’s because he didn’t

Voldy only loves Voldy

[white prism]

Right?

Like

[final sinew]

We don’t talk about Cursed Child’s story in this household.

[white prism]

His ultimate goal is immortality and immortals don't need to procreate

And otherwise it seems like other things would get in the way of him achieving and cultivating more powerful magic

He is someone of singular focus and vindictive determination

I say vindictive because he wanted to be on Hogwarts staff really bad and when he couldn't he cursed the position

[shy gyro]

He was saying something about the body he was occupying to be a temporary one.
Maybe he wanted to create a new and better body the old-fashioned way. Bellatrix said she'd willingly give her sons away for the cause, if she had any. Maybe Delphi was a disappointment simply because of her being female, since he didn't want to have a sex change.
Also, I saw some of the names of people insisting that Voldemort died a virgin in a discussion about cursed child stating that there's no way he was a virgin in a discussion about the appearance of young Tom Riddle in chamber of secrets, seemingly not realizing or forgetting that its the same dude.
Sex doesn't require love, so him having sex doesn't invalidate the "he doesn't love" line from Dumbledore. He could have used it to manipulate people emotionally, like with a carrot on a stick...

[warped thistle]

Ah, you're saying he wanted to do a Sasuke Orochimaru

[shy gyro]

Have a son, take his body as his own, be immortal that way.

It's the time travel that doesn't make sense in cursed child, and the fact that Draco doesn't know about Delphi. Delphis existence, despite being the most contested and most discussed part, can be justified. And while there's no way to fit a pregnancy into the timeline in the movie, it does fit into the timeline in the books. Mostly because Bellatrix isn't in Hogwarts in the book, when Snape kills Dumbledore, while in the movie, she is.

And I don't think anyone will disagree with Books > Movies.

[warped thistle]

Now that I'm thinking about it, Orochimaru and Voldemort kinda do look similar 🤔

[worthy trench]

His motive for having a kid is unknown but it could many things. An experiment (see if a kid of his would have similar or more potential in magic than himself), a means to continue his legacy if he did in fact die.

[stark fern]

And Bellatrix has always been crazy for him so no doubt she volunteered as tribute

[white prism]

Maybe even threw herself at him

[modern moth]

I’m now trying to imagine Helena Bonham Carter throwing herself at Lord Voldemort. Not quite working for me…

[stark fern]

Woman was coocoo for coca puffs I would not be surprised in the slightest

[solid folio]

This relationship doesn't really make sense either way

So it's a bit weird that JK actually made it canon

I thought Grindelwald and Dumbledore was a stretch even

[modern moth]

The Dumble/Grindelwald thing is explainable - we first hear of Grindelwald on Dumbledore’s Chocolate Frog Card in Philosopher’s Stone, where it is expressly stated that Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald in 1945. The cursed child business is an aberration imo - there is no reference to any romantic relationship between Voldemort and his Death Eaters. Granted, some of them of might have shown devotion akin to a relationship, but it was either platonic or purely one-way from the Death Eater

[solid folio]

Explainable sure, a bit of a stretch but it's at least in the source material

The only real mention in the source material for Bellatrix - Voldemort is Voldemort being angry at her death

I think the devotion is more akin to how you would worship a god

[modern moth]

My point exactly - purely platonic or a one-way “relationship” from the Death Eater that was not reciprocated

[woeful hill]

I'v read nothing at all but..
Voldemort can't love someone because he was made without love.
His mother used a love potion on someone to make child with him. (nothing consensual..)
So he was loveless. That's why he's weak from the love of Lily Potter and all...

[solid folio]

I'd say more like a senpai-kouhai relationship if you understand japanese culture

He is a leader they are his loyal followers

Now is his authority based on fear or respect that's debatable in its own right

But I don't think it's as one way as it seems. He does show some respect to the higher ranking death eaters

[solid folio]

Also in the books love magic is known to be an ancient but strong form of magic

[worthy trench]

Its not literally cos he was concieved under a love potion, thats just symbolic per JK. He could have been different had his upbringing been different she said.

His early life affected him very negatively. Its also could be he was just born with a rare disorder that made him unable to form normal bonds with others even as an infant, (an actual rare disorder in infants according to doctors I read).

Like he had the ability to make better choices despite his early life and upbringing and he didn't. It all came down to his own choices.

[solid folio]

Harry Potter is like the Polar opposite he's grown up in an almost similar way since the Dursleys disowned him

And yet he turned out well

Dumbledore mentions it as well the only difference between the two is their choices

[stark fern]

Yep exactly

[woeful hill]

Yeah i know someone who don't have emotions at all and can't love anyone.

[woeful hill]

Thanks for the precisions. I like it.

[uneven pendant]

So… question.

[stark fern]

Potential answer

[warped thistle]

Wow. I bet the question will be really well though out. He's thinking on how to phrase it for half a day

[woeful hill]

His question gonna make Interpol tracking him.

Emil is dead. They already found him.

[uneven pendant]

Awh you ❤️

SO!

I saw the fantastic beasts series.
Great genre. Leta made me Slytherin.

In the third movie, Yusuf Kama goes to Grindewald. Queenie says he feels pain about his sisters death. Grindewald takes the elder wand, takes a memory-like string (like the pensive). Suddenly, Kamas pain was removed. He thanks Grindewald.

Let’s back track to our storyline. Isidora uses Ancient Magic to remove pain. It results in removing all of his pain. Actually… Sorry. It results in her dad having absolutely zero emotions.

That removal of pain that Grindewald did. That painful strand of memory is something that seems extremely easy, and kind of common?
You could also use Legimency to block negative thoughts or memories. Oh hey. Legimency? That’s right up a Seers alley! Hmm… Who do we know that is a seer… who could we know… who in bloody Rackham could we know…

Wouldn’t her teacher help her? Remove it, if it’s so bad for her father? This entire plot line suddenly seems a bit thin. Using ancient magic which is extremely flawed. Isidora is a gifted Ravenclaw, she’s with the keepers - some of the greatest magicians of her time. They quite literally ended droughts and rebuilt forests and crops. They made flowers bloom instantly, all while standing on a cliff and having one hand behind their back, while they laughed and had a good time.

Surely… SURELY… With all these great, great powers. With all those vast opportunities… Why did she result to dark magic? She travelled the world, and couldn’t find a single thing. She could even brew a love potion if she wanted to. There are literally so many options for removal of pain…

Are the five chars just really dumb, or..? 🫣

@mild crane @stark fern @woeful hill @warped thistle

[stark fern]

Our MC themselves says to Sebastian that everything is a bit convoluted.

And it definitely is. A lot of the story asks that you suspend your belief

And it’s true the story is convoluted
But we also have to keep in mind with this taking place in the 1890s people were still discovering quite a bit to do with the magical world

Ancient magic seems like something that any exceptionally skilled witch or wizard COULD use if they were in tune enough with magic

But only people like rackham, mc, and isidora have the power to be AWARE of it in a way that allows them to unlock its potential

[uneven pendant]

Buuuut my babe

Buuut

Magic has existed before Christ. It’s documented

And people invent spells

Surely they can invent mental spells, when they can literally make spells that repairs bridges that’s been destroyed by dragons many years ago, or the bridge destroyed hundreds of years ago that the keeps put in the Scottish highlands - and we have episkey and so on.

One would thing… Considering how witches and wizards have been hunted by Muggles for so many centuries, that they would make some mental blockades? Idk???

But I love the game, don’t get me wrong

But it’s a major plot hole

[stark fern]

Again I do really think a lot of it had to do with suspending belief

[uneven pendant]

I’d get it if she wanted to remove all emotions?

Mmmmaybe, idk 🤔

But you gotta admit… that question was worth waiting for? 😇

[stark fern]

Like if you start to think about ANY magic system for too long it doesn’t make sense LOL

That’s just the nature of otherworldly concepts

It is interesting but in the end it makes for a neat story and that’s what I care about lol

[woeful hill]

Oh. I'm gonna re-watch the movies and tells you what I thinks. But yeah. Your reflexion make sense...

[uneven pendant]

True true, I enjoy the game

[worthy trench]

What GG did was use magic to pull a memory that was associated with pain out of Kama with his consent. Isadora's father couldn't exactly do that in his state. Rackham wasn't likely gonna do that and that. And removing the memory doesn't necessarily remove the pain associated with it for good or even actually remove the memory proper or forever. It won't change the fact that whatever the memory is about happened. There's no indication Kama forgot his sister died or that his pain won't just come back later anyway. Removing a memory won't necessarily remove the pain or emotion associated with it. The mind is not a box of contents that can simply be opened and closed.

[severe grotto]

Yooooo! I just thought of something! In the game, whenever we defeat am enemy, it leaves behind a small white orb that we can "absorb" when we get close to it. And in the keepers memories, we see Isodora extract a red thread from people and absorbing them.What if they're souls?! 😱

[solid folio]

That would make Isodora a living horcrux?

[shy gyro]

What Emil pointed out is an inconsistency, no matter how you turn and twist it. And inconsistencies are something an author always tries to avoid, to the best of his ability, and for good reason.
Rowling is an exception. She didn't care about consistency. She wanted to write her story just like it was in her head, and if that took changing the rules mid story, adding new rules without checking if they apply in already written parts of the story, and so on, multiple times in the series, then that's what she did.
That's why the fandom is so used to overlooking them and finding excuses for it.
It is the weak point of the franchise.

[solid folio]

The time turner as well is a huge mistake

And to even go ahead and use it again for the cursed child is just...

[olive flint]

(Can we not just all agree that the) cursed child isn't canon.

[woeful hill]

I didn't even read it

Is that worth it?

That's, like the only thing that's I've avoiding in the wizarding world lore.

[misty ember]

keep it like this, dont bother reading it

[woeful hill]

Is THAT bad??

[misty ember]

makes no sense to be honest

[woeful hill]

I'm not surprised

[solid folio]

Even so, what was she thinking with the time turner? Leave time travel for sci fi writers

[dapper lark]

Read it, just to enjoy how terrible it is.

Ron as a love potion peddler and Cedric as a death eater.

“You’re upsetting the dementors and entirety ruining Voldemort Day!”

[uneven pendant]

Some strange shirt.

[modern moth]

Is it possible that Ominis’s wand is the magic equivalent of a White cane and a Braille reader?

[warped thistle]

Someday we will foresee obstacles

🥲

[modern moth]

The objective of a white cane (I use one myself) is more to help you identify your surroundings and navigate around locations, not so much avoid obstacles (at best, the white cane will identify an obstruction so the user can proactively avoid it)

Although white canes aren’t perfect - we need room to swing the cane (We are taught to swing it in a wide arc from shoulder-to-shoulder in front of us as we walk), so anything that obstructs our path, such as a parked vehicle, causes problems.

Ominis’ wand is better because it could subconsciously vanish the obstruction as he approaches

And Ominis has good hearing, so I suspect that his wand might read books to him in such a way that only he can hear them. While Braille had been invented by the time of the game, it’s usually designed to be read by touch (people running their fingers over the dots that make up braille letters and words), so listening, rather than relying on braille, would be quicker I suspect

I can’t read braille, but I have heard of it and seen it in use

[uneven pendant]

Hello bestie

No I’m not ❤️

[misty ember]

I saw that!

[modern moth]

I think Ominis listens to books rather than reads them - I think there’s an example of him holding his wand over a book - he doesn’t look like he’s touching it with his fingers - so I suspect that as he holds the wand over each page, it reads that page to him

[misty ember]

Ominis, the first audiobook listener 😄

[modern moth]

The wand converts the book into an audiobook as it goes along (and bear in mind this was 100 years before Audible was invented)

[misty ember]

Ominis invented audiobooks, you heard it here first folks 😄

dont! I know CPR

[uneven pendant]

Silencio

Also hello @misty ember ❤️

[misty ember]

I cant be silenced! 😈

[severe grotto]

I read it. It was....meh. Still, interesting to see alternate timelines.

[severe grotto]

I call it Seperate Canon.

[woeful hill]

It's canon?

[severe grotto]

Eeehhhhh.....I call it Seperate Canon.

[woeful hill]

Like a route?

[severe grotto]

Like, it's similar enough using aspects such as characters, place settings, paraphernalia, etc, to be connected to the main franchise. At the same time, it's different enough to be able to stand on it's own without being connected to the franchise. Truthfully, it's fanfiction, but whether or not it's canon is....well, up to u.

[woeful hill]

So I can consider it whatever I want...

It's a big complex because it's made by the author them self.

[severe grotto]

Actually, it was first a play created by 2 HP fans, John Tiffany and Jack Thorne. JK Rowling was their consultant and later wrote the playscript

[woeful hill]

Ohhhhh that's why then...

It should be take with pincettes

Okay okay. Thanks a lot for precisions. It's clear for me now. @severe grotto

[severe grotto]

No problem! 😊

[solid folio]

There you go, a fan fic

[severe grotto]

Also, @shy gyro, considering the many inconsistencies in JKR'S Wizarding World, I think it's safe to say her explanation for that is...Magic is Magic.

[shy gyro]

That actually makes it worse. If the argument, that as soon as a story is labeled Fantasy and has magic in it, that in itself explains and excuses any and all inconsistencies, lore contradictions, and so on, was valid, then quality control and proofreading for Fantasy would be inherently useless and even counterproductive.

[uneven pendant]

I love this debate

[shy gyro]

"It has magic, so rules and logic don't apply" is like saying "It has Alien Technology, so actual science and physics can be ignored entirely, and not only that, but it's also okay to do absolutely anything else, even if it contraditcs previously established lore." about a Sci-Fi story.

[uneven pendant]

Yeah. Like some Star Wars things

[shy gyro]

If you're talking about the sequels, I agree. In general, Star Wars is more solid when it comes to consistency, but that's a low bar.

But while that's the weak point of the Harry Potter franchise, it also has strong parts, like the characters and overall plot. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been able to build its fanbase.

[solid folio]

Yeah the problem with this defence is it's no better than school kids coming up with "I cast an anti your spell spell!"

In JK's defence though there has been some thought put into it and generally it's somewhat consistent there's just a few things that could be improved so that there's less plot holes

Oh there's also the fact that fans sometimes propose theories to explain the plot holes and she basically just says "yeah I'll go with what they said"

[uneven pendant]

Hi fan

Awh ❤️

[modern moth]

Hello everyone

Good to meet you

🤗🤗🤗

[shy gyro]

The characters are consistent, 3 dimensional and well built, with a few one dimensional exceptions (Mostly bad guys), and the plot is consistent, with foreshadowing and hints done just right, despite, maybe even because, it's a classic heros journey.
It's the world, it's history, it's rules, it's lore, where it feels like she barely put 5 minutes into it.

[solid folio]

Yeah I agree with that

Even something as simple as who is the strongest wizard of all time is up to interpretation

And not for a good reason either it's simply because we've only got Grindelwald, Dumbledore and Voldemort as the known contenders

[uneven pendant]

I heard the Celestine family is extremely powerful. Emil being probably the strongest.

[shy gyro]

Throw in the Peverell Brothers, Merlin and Morgana for good measure, and the founders of Hogwarts.

But where Harry Potter crumbles, Lord of the Rings shines the strongest.

[uneven pendant]

I love LOTR

[solid folio]

Yup exactly

Nicolas Flamel should get a mention too

[worthy trench]

Well Flamal would be considered by most if not all to be the greatest alchemist of all time since he achieved 3 of the goals of alchemy, create the Philosopher's Stone, which turns any metal into gold, produces the elixir of life and keeps you in seemingly perfect health while having the elixer in their blood

[dull mason]

do rich people own the elves?

[sour coral]

😟

[shy gyro]

There are indicators that House Elves are tied to houses, and need to serve whoever lives in them, but I think it's more likely that house elves are tied to families and have to serve the current family head.
I have not seen any mention of a market where house elves can be bought and sold.
Hogwarts Legacy reveals that if a house elf ends up without a master, without being freed, (because the last master died, and there was no eligible heir, or the heir refused the inheritance) the Ministry takes custody of him and then assigns him a new owner.

That's how Deek came to Hogwarts

[boreal shuttle]

It's also important to note that this is true for 90+% of fantasy fiction. Authors like Tolkien, Sanderson and to a lesser degree Martin are the exceptions, not the rule. And even they have their fair share of inconsistencies and plot holes.

HP/the WW simply gets called out more often than other series' because it's substantially more popular.

If you really flesh out your worldbuilding, it's ridiculously hard to keep it consistent in a long-running series, so many authors just settle for the basics - especially for their earlier works.

[olive swan]

I mean, JKR has done a piss poor job at world building. Didn't help much either that her series graduated from a strict children book series, to a YA book series.

[boreal shuttle]

Eh, it's fine within the confines of Magical Britain and the original 7 books - certainly far from top-tier but piss poor is still very harsh. Things begin to crack when you look at the WW as a whole, but even then it's really not worse than most other YA series.

Worldbuilding is something barely anyone does well.

[olive swan]

Whataboutism. Just because similar and/or other book series have the same problems, doesn't make them less of an issue in this particular series.

If anything, they are really not. The books only follow their own logic between story arcs, not across the series as a whole. There are numerous examples of JKR 'forgetting', 'inventing' or conveniently omitting previously introduced spells to drive the story.

At the end the day, it works, people like the series. She has made bank, and WB profited greatly from it.

Things begin to crack much sooner than that. More about if those 'cracks' break the series for you, or anyone really, or not.

[boreal shuttle]

You're overdramatising the issues. There's not a single long-running fantasy series without continuity errors and that includes the absolute best of the best. There is also more to evaluating worldbuilding, or any given thing really, than calling it flawless or "piss poor".

The worldbuilding in the books works perfectly fine for the type of story JKR wanted to tell and yes, that's the case despite its flaws. It's often shallow and vague but it works because it's directly intertwined with Harry's characterisation and his own ignorance about a lot of things in the magical world or rather magical Britain.

It is perfectly fine to appreciate the approach for what it is while also acknowledging its shortcomings. It's also fine to call it piss poor if you have actual arguments to back it up, but most people who criticise the series' worldbuilding don't even try to look at the bigger picture while doing so. JKR knew her own strengths and weaknesses and built the world around it accordingly. When it works, surface-level worldbuilding can be just as great in its own way as the most deep and intricately woven worlds.

So yeah, I still think that the worldbuilding works as long as it's tied to Harry as a character and the only PoV. It falls apart after that because the concept doesn't work with the wider approach, where consistent and deep systems are much more important and integral.

[olive swan]

You are making, or rather trying to make a big deal out of it? lol
I called the world building piss poor, you're trying to make a point disapproving the initial premise, by drawing from other series and comparing it to different genres authors and whatnot. Just because other series have the same issues, doesn't make it less of an issue in Harry Potter or for the franchise as a whole.
Other popular series are called out for their shortcoming as well, no? It's just - we're on a Harry Potter Discord which, you know, skews the whole picture into a particular direction.

Like I've said, it works for a lot of people. The series is widely popular, so it has that going for it. But just because that's the case, doesn't mean the world-building is intricate or well thought out. Like I've said, the books are closed - as in, follow a continuity across a particular story arc, but those rules fall apart across books and the 'overall' Wizarding World. So, again - not ideal.

A little rich, wouldn't you say? There are so many inconsistencies in the series. Just the first couple of chapters has extreme child neglect in them, and that is never explained and/or explored further. It's implied that the Dursleys get violent with Harry, his glasses being constantly broken for instance, him needing to doge a pan, but that aspect - you know, him being a 11 year old boy - growing up in an extremely abusive environment, is never further explored either. Honestly, I would suggest people re-reading the series again without all the head-canon and fanfiction in mind.
The thing is, is if you think more than five minutes about certain plot points, the story breaks. lol
If you agree or not, if that's an issue for you or not, that's up to you really.

Again, the series works, people like it, the whole Wizarding World franchise is worth some 10 or so billion freedom dollars, so it's working obviously.

[olive swan]

Which shouldn't be the case no? lol
That's like saying, the chair was sturdily built but the moment someone sits on it, it breaks.

Should have worked a little more on the foundation first, no?

[boreal shuttle]

I mean, you're the one who started making a big deal out of a very en passant assessment about worldbuilding as a whole.
And I think that this is just a case of a fundamentally different view point, priorities and general disposition.

e.g. when you say that the story breaks as soon as you think about certain plot points for more than five minutes, that's exactly what I was referring to at the beginning of my last post - for you it breaks, for myself and many others it stumbles at worst.

The example you used is also somewhat misolaced as this falls more under characterisation than actual world-building. That being said, I do agree with the premise that this is something that should have been given much more time.

But that's exactly what I mean. A lot of the series has its fair share of flaws but the worldbuilding works for the books conceptionally, while the same can't be said for the wider Wizarding World.

[boreal shuttle]

Yes, it shouldn't. I said so from the start.

It works for the books and arguably for something like the Tales of Beedle the Bard, but it doesn't really work for the FB movies or other secondary stories. There's a reason the series failed and the inconsistent storytelling is far from the only issue.

But yeah, I think we've both said our piece, so I'll leave it at that.

[olive swan]

I mean, JKR has done a piss poor job at world building. Didn't help much either that her series graduated from a strict children book series, to a YA book series.

That's what I've written. My point was that the book failed namely in its aspect to move from a strict children book series to a more mature, Young Adult orientated audience. Unsure how my initial premise was 'in passing'? While I do like the the french, unsure how that applies to what initially brought forth this debate.

While the particular example wasn't necessarily aimed at world building, it shows, or I tried to highlight problems the story had in its first few chapters. Without the subpar world building taking center stage.
Since most of the world, apart from the Quidditch games and some very few chapters with a different PoV, is explored through Harry's eyes, his characterization and his driving forces are what defines what we, the audience, learn about the wizarding world. Why he acts the way he acts, why he does things the way he does things etc. Hence that example, albeit not strictly world-building, I agree, it still plays a role in Harry Potter's development as a character.

lmao. Maybe the book is so popular since people don't read much, so these flaws don't seem as egregious as they do? As in, not having much of a literary comparison to draw from. I am kidding of course, or am I?

As for the rest, I agree. We've both made our points, I believe. I've had this discussion multiple times already on this Discord. So, there is that as well. Let's agree to disagree, I suppose.

[brave echo]

How do you write a book about magic and fantasy for adults ?

[worthy trench]

Be JRR Tolkien.

Granted LOTR book is not for everyone.

[odd orbit]

🤣